Why Wealthy Divorced Women Don’t Remarry And Men Do

beautiful wealthy gorgeous woman with pearl earrings

According to a survey of 5000 members of MillionareMatch.com, 83% of divorced men would consider marriage in the next five years, while only 32% of divorced women would do the same.

That’s a huge disparity, and while the gap is a little surprising, the findings are not.

The article on MarketWatch does a pretty good job of explaining why.  Here’s the paragraph that hit home for me:

“Why are wealthy divorced women more likely to decide to remain single? “It’s much harder for divorced males to be alone than females,” says Fran Walfish, a psychotherapist in Beverly Hills, Calif. Unlike men, she says, “a woman’s ego cannot bear to tolerate a man using her for her money. She needs to know she is loved–rich or poor–flaws and all.”

Women need to learn to respect lower-earning spouses the same exact way men do – for their character, kindness, warmth, attractiveness, and support, instead of looking down on them.

As a dating coach for smart, strong, successful women, I’ve seen this up close, and think that this is a genuine obstacle for women to overcome. I’ve written a lot about gender, money, and equality, and believe that the entire point of having money is that it gives you the freedom to marry for love rather than security. This is what wealthy men do. Male millionaires (smartly) don’t seek out female millionaires because, to them, it doesn’t matter what she makes. All that matters is how she makes him feel: appreciated, accepted, adored.

Female millionaires – despite being equal to their male counterparts – have a huge block against dating a man with less money. Where men take delight in picking up dinners and vacations for their lower-earning spouses, women become resentful that their spouses can’t carry their weight. Which is pretty silly when you are a millionaire with the means to do whatever you want. Women need to learn to respect lower-earning spouses the same exact way men do – for their character, kindness, warmth, attractiveness, and support, instead of looking down on them. Until they do, they’re going to remain single, surrounded by money, surrounded by friends, but without a significant other to share the ride.

Like many women – the risk is not worth the potential reward.

My 67-year-old mom – who I recently visited with my family – has absolutely no desire to date, despite the profession of her son. She likes her friends, her card games, her home improvement projects, her grandkids, her dinner parties, her travel, etc. Of course she does. But, in a rare moment of candor, she confesses to me that she’s lonely, and I continue to wonder why she chooses solitude over partnership. To her – like many women – the risk is not worth the potential reward.

Yet to 83% of divorced millionaire men, the risk IS worth it. Which is why those men don’t stay on the market very long. So while I really don’t judge anybody’s life choices – whatever makes you happy – I do find it curious that men are so much more willing to spend their money on partners and take the risk of getting hurt.

Your thoughts below are greatly appreciated.

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  1. 1

    Women give up a lot when they are married. I spent 18 years married to a man who struggled with my career and the time I needed to spend to achieve my goals and maintain our lifestyle. What was ironic is that he was in the same professional sector and had to work as hard as I did, yet I was expected to “understand” his commitments.

    Too many men move to fast and I am not talking necessarily physically, but emotionally also. They do not listen to queues from women and as a result end up trashing an otherwise good relationship. I am 46 and divorced, date 3-4x a week. My divorce was final April of this year, but I had been separated for about 2 years. There have been a number of men who I have barely known for not more than two or three weeks (have not been intimate with) and have asked me to go on a week long trip with them or made plans for us to move in together. Men, women need time also, we have lives before you, especially at this age. Can we just have fun at first without all this heavy talk about the rest of our lives?

    1. 1.1

      “Women give up a lot when they are married.”

      And guys DON’T?

      1. 1.1.1

        Mickey– I am sure some guys do– everyone gives up stuff to be in a relationship, but we do that for everything. There is always a trade off. I was speaking more from my experience– where it was not a trade off– I got nothing in return. Probably why I am divorced.

        1. Brian

          some women like to go ” tuff” on that pay grade… when it wades up, all the respect, attention, affection she used to give her man shovels deep down í   ½Ã­ ¸ ”

        2. czar

          Women always give up more? That’s what women always say. Yet they still marry the richer partners preferably. No women marry for pure love anymore hardly any but men still do. Women know men are saddled with more financial obligations in divorce especially if they are financially well off. Men truly lose financially from a divorce that’s why it’s women that ask for divorce mostly. It’s easy for women to say it’s not about money but it’s laughable. Suddenly it’s all about her sacrifices although they share household chores child rearing and he contributed more financially and the more children the better as they become bargaining chips for getting the house and better financial awards. He wants to move on and maybe get married again so as not to feel lonely but maybe can’t afford it. She meanwhile is satisfied with her lots having the children, the house and financial support. She doesn’t want to risk losing financial support to marry another man especially if he’s not earning well even if she feels like having a partner. So you tell me that men don’t really lose in divorces.

      2. 1.1.2

        MEN give up the idea of random sex with random women and the freedom to hang out all the time. Women give up a whole lot more WEATHER men like it or not.  

        1. Alex

          Like what exactly? What more do you give up than men? Please enlighten me. I assume we’re talking about millionaire’s or at least upper middle class men and women, so the whole ‘women are expected to do more housework and childrearing’ argument doesn’t apply; since these income groups usually pay other people to do house work or look after the kids while working.

        2. JennNOLA


      3. 1.1.3

        Guys give up ‘all the other women they could have had’…women give EVERYTHING. For us, giving up men is the easier part.

        1. Karmic Equation

          Women don’t get credit for being stupid in a relationship nor for Monday-morning quarterbacking her way into victimhood.
          A good man NEVER asks a woman to give up ANYTHING. Most women CHOOSE to give up her relationships with friends and family when a new man comes into her life. She rearranges her schedule to be with him. And she does it gladly.
          She shouldn’t be doing that. And if she does, she can’t blame the man.
          OTOH, if a man asks or DEMANDS that she gives up things then she needs to evaluate. It’s reasonable if she’s busy 7 days a week, and he asks her to give up a few things so they can spend time together. Men who want us want to spend time with us, so a woman who is over-scheduled needs to free up time to have a relationship. But if she only has two nights a week where she goes to the gym or hangs out with her friends and she’s available the other 5 nights, and he demands she gives up her 2 nights and doesn’t try to find common ground on the other 5, he’s NOT a good man…or at least he’s not a considerate man. This guy she needs to dump.

        2. Ross

          That is a very arrogant, sexist, and unintelligent thing to say. Research indicates women are just as, or more, permiscuous compared to men. Afterall, who are all these men having sex with. In my experience and from the experiences of hundreds of men I’ve worked with professionally as a therapist, we don’t really give up “all the other women” because there really aren’t “all the other women” to begin with. Men, despite an erroneous gender narrative, desire much of the same things woman say they want: honesty, respect, commitment, loyalty, faithfulness.   Furthermore, one of the primary differences is that we just don’t expect anyone else to pay our way to achieve any of it. We seek a woman based on these qualities, rather than seeking someone who is resource wealthy that we can benefit from in terms of finances, homes, careers, social position, or retirement. The data is quite clear on how the American Family Law System has systematically waged war on men and fathers for the past four decades. This is why men are starting to say no to marriage and yes to single life once again! MGTOW

      4. 1.1.4

        No Mickey, men give up nothing. Unless of course you count a two year marriage, and the woman gets pregnant, by another male. (I had, had a vasectomy, which she did not know about, she tried to make out it was my child. DNA proved otherwise) But she stillwalked away with half of the total estate.

        Of course, the fact that when I met her she was broke and in debt, (which I paid off)   made no impact to the judge.

        Any man who gets married today, is a fool.

        Men may sometimes be violent, BUT WOMEN ARE EVIL. And Hell hath no fury, as the saying goes.   

        1. Lindsey

          While you have every reason to be upset and hurt, likewise for many women. I was married to a guy who counted the pennies i would spend. We had plenty of money but I would get my ass chewed out if I bought at $3 tank too from old navy while he could drop a grand on clothes in 2 hours.   I was “expected”   to have the entire 4,000 sq foot house scrubbed top to bottom before he came home every day and if it was up to his standards, mr Hyde would come out. I wasn’t allowed to hire a house keeper bc in his eyes I did nothing all day. He cheated on me twice and I fianally left. I entered a marriage believing he would take care of me. Most guys see that as money, but to me all I needed was for him to take care of my heart. He did everything in his power to crucify my heart and I finally had enough. Now I’m back to the independent woman I was when I met him. I’m in advertising, making my own money and finally happy again! I try to keep an open mind to marrying again, but I honestly couldn’t handle another guy. It took me over a year to find my true self again and there’s no way in hell id offer my heart back up again to be trampled on again.

        2. grilladesandgrits

          Wait a second.   The EXACT same thing happened to me (minus the vasectomy and baby) and I’m a woman.   I paid off his debts, I made the bulk of the money, I carried, birthed, and reared two children all while he had affair after affair.   To add salt to my wounds both of my parents died and he spent every penny of my inheritance (no idea on what).   I am now single and raising my children and he, thankfully, is too busy with his latest whore to spend time or money on his children.   Then difference in you and I is, I see myself as lucky.   You and I both dodged a bullet regardless of the price we had to pay.

        3. GhettoRanger

          You’re right, men need to cease and desist marriage otherwise the persecution of men will continue.

        4. Kai

          Not telling the woman you were married to that you’d had a vasectomy doesn’t make you such a catch. Do us all a favor and continue to stay off the market.

        5. Casey

          easy way to get money and not slogged your guts out to get money by working is to marry a rich man of over 50 years old for a few years then divorced and get half of his estate.For centuries young girls were bethrothed to old men for their money by their parents Old Men are stupid when come to young girls,they think between their legs. So they deserved it more so if they devorced their matured wife.

        6. Akmal


          Its all about balance. Both genders can do both wrongs. So it’s not smart to aim at just one gender. Everyone has different intentions and reactions. It’s a dynamic world. A successful marriage is about love, fairness, understanding and respect. If either one of it is missing, Anything can happen…

          IF we can’t live up to small contracts, a lifetime contract like marriage will be hard. It depends on the character of a person who understands what is in it for them. It is not wrong to love ourselves and put ourselves 1st, the couple are not putting each other above themselves.

    2. 1.2

      “Too many men move to fast  … ” You got the “too” correct the first time, so I’ll say this was a true typo.

      “They do not listen to queues”  In this usage, the spelling is “cues”.  cue1




      a thing said or done that serves as a signal to an actor or other performer to enter or to begin their speech or performance.

      So, you may be ‘wealthy’ but you appear uneducated.

      1. 1.2.1

        Jenn, You are making me LOL with your spelling corrections!   Love it and thank you!   You wrote exactly what I thought!   YOUR a greal speller.   Ha ha, JK….You’re.     🙂 Thank you again for putting a big smile on my face!

        1. hahadotcom

          OMG…”great” is what I meant to write! I’m laughing at spelling errors and made one myself!! LOL at me!!   😀

      2. 1.2.2

        I have beef with your cues… Why can’t a woman just tell her lover, straight up what’s going on? That is the root of the problem. Not him “missing” your cues… He’s no mind-reader. Common sense. He’s not at fault. You are. Just come right out and tell it like it is… And stop blaming men for your lack of authority.

    3. 1.3
      Chest Rockwell

      I would not be associated with any woman who dates 3-4 men per week. It doesn’t matter if you were married one day or one hundred years. This type of behavior is basically promiscuous and I would not be surprised if it was the number of partners you had prior to marriage that was a factor in your divorce.   A real man doesn’t accept this type of behavior. Unfortunately the American male has become a spineless caricature of what a self respecting man is.   If a woman has integrity and is respectful, she can have the long term relationship.  

      1. 1.3.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Appreciate your username; disagree with your sentiment. Can men go out with multiple women at the same time in the process of looking for love? Or should you commit to every woman you meet or only see one woman at a time? If you believe that men and women should both only see one person at a time, I’d recommend you stay away from online dating. If you believe that men can date multiple women but women can’t date multiple men, you’re a hypocrite.

        1. Egalitarian

          FINALLY. Someone who criticizes hypergamic women and then calls out guys who  play the “multiple men is bad!”  card while themselves looking to bed  multiple women.

          Your comment was like a drink of fresh cold water in Death Valley. Thanks!

        2. Robert

          Well stated Mr. Katz.

          I want to thank you Evan for all your hard work on this website. I can’t imagine the efforts put into it. Keep up the hard work! I’m one of your biggest fans!

        3. Robert

          I have been reading your site for about two years now. I have stayed single and have remained celibate for personal development purposes… I was left, 2 days prior my wedding of a ten year relationship… where I worked my ass off to get out of debt. I even got a prenup, to protect her from my debt. (I used a prenup in reverse, to secure her future without being burdened with my school loans…

          She obviously didn’t care. Selfishness… Everything was always about her…And I put up with it….but never again. In all likelihood, I doubt I’ll marry. The government does not enforce sanctions on women who decide to leave whenever they want…ruining him in the process..

          I know my thoughts are negative, but I can’t help it. I see nothing but women’s expectations do nothing, but rise…all the while, they never consider what they bring to a relationship… And this of course is not all women, but unfortunately, most of the women I meet, are not marriage material.

      2. 1.3.2

        Agreed with Rockwell. Ans yes, Evan, most men should stay away from online dating. A  man who desires non-zero results from dating websites must invest substantial time for even modest replies. The promise that online dating would help you “save time” by helping you connect with thousands of local singles is an illusion, an illusion sold to introverted nerds eager to buy the notion that they can insulate themselves the terrifying task of approaching a woman they find desirable in person and risk rejection.

      3. 1.3.3

        Some women are doing what most men have been doing for centuries,can’t beat them join them. Well the cure is cultivate moral values ,you men start first. Majority of women in the world are still   subjugated by the domineering men. Men have been promiscous for centuries and acceptable by society.

        1. Akmal

          What domineering men? From my society, Women take charge of everything. They don’t even listen to our helpful advices and scold us. Now is the 21st Centruy, woman has alot of power and choice. In terms of finances, even my girlfriend has higher pay than me. So dont come up with excuses like this.

          Everyone chooses their own moral values. Hopefully, the good ones with the good ones. I do not want to be part of the bad ones or the unlucky one.

      4. 1.3.4

        The American Male? What are you even talking about…be more clear?

    4. 1.4

      Listen to your queues?   Don’t you mean read your mind?   Women don’t know what they want but they are known for wanting what they can’t have?   What are us guys supposed to do if we can’t figure out women?   NOBODY understands women!   There is mob default do this with your woman and things will be good. Nope!   There is just try this and hope for the best. But after you have tried and failed many times, then what?   If we men ask the woman, what is it that you want, do we ever get an answer?   But you will leave and go out with your girlfriends and tell them exactly what you want or expect. Women have such unreasonably high expectations and your moody and so fn emotional that I am no longer surprised that relationships don’t work. I am thankful that I have no wife and no kids because the predictability of women is not good. Americanized women!   Think about that statement for a minute and ask yourself how many characteristics you have that would make you fit into the category of an Americanized woman.  

      1. 1.4.1

        Well, actually women do understand each other. But… since they also tend to hate each other, it’s no consolation.

    5. 1.5
      Beth Bradley

      yes…been there, done that…a year after my divorce I enjoyed occasional outings with a man who was always trying to interfere with or get me to cancel my scheduled volunteer and social commitments–even though they were important or longstanding and instead spend that hour or 45 minutes with him. Usually his plan would be for me to ‘go with him’ while he ran routine errands (buying sox, getting mail from his PO box, I kid you not)…but I resisted the pressure, and saw him less frequently. Finally he gave me an ultimatum. Either he would move in, or we were ‘over.’ (This relayed in an angry and very rude email in which he said he was giving me a time out, but that I could telephone him the following Sunday with my response). I never phoned him of course. A month later he phoned as if nothing had happened and asked what we should do on Valentine’s day. I reminded him that we were over. ‘When did THAT happen?’ he asked. I said, ‘Read your last email to me.” He spend months traipsing after me, leaving phone messages, etc… but I don’t need a building to fall on me to know when I have made a lucky escape from a insecure, mean spirited bully.

      1. 1.5.1

        Women are in it for the security – have been since pre-historic times – today, money is security – so it naturally follows that today, women are in any relationship for the money?

        1. judy

          Jimmy 1.5.1

          This is an intriguing post.   Could it occur to you that men no longer have the same earning power as they used to?

          If I told you that I earned twice as much as the average person, would your argument still stand?

          Here is my view. I’m a pretty, feminine woman, kind, and courteous, rather patient (these are the qualities I know I have) and I’m a high earner.   I also have a great figure and good health.

          I recently met a man who probably earns twice as much as I do.

          Do you seriously think I want him for his money?

          No.   I want him for his maleness (this is not just about penis power or sex) and company, intimacy (which includes sex of course), but money is not going to be the issue here.   At all.

          He has his own home – I have mine.   He has children (grown up) and I already have grandchildren, a full social life, and great friends and hobbies of my own.

          By the way, money is helpful and makes us comfortable.   But try telling someone terminally ill that money is security.   It truly is not.

          I look forward to your views on this, plus anyone else for that matter.

        2. Gayle

          Actually Jimmy, from an anthropologic (pre-historic) stand point, women have not always been “in it” for the security.   Before agriculture, when we were still foragers, women & men enjoyed a level of egalitarianism never known to post-agricultural humans.   Most foraging groups had about 150 people who worked together for the good of the group.   They all (women & men)  had multiple partners and sex was an open proposition that casted a wide net to include outside groups.   This is because sex wasn’t the holy grail of life.   It was, in essence, no big deal.   With agriculture came ownership at all levels, which  was the catalyst to the modern day dilemmas being discussed in this forum.   Personally, I  believe the concept of  individuals looking for  socially-defined & controlled  commitment in a single human being is as antiquated as you’re belief that”security” is available through a socially-engineered narrative.   It’s an unconscious bias that you’re offering up as fact – It Isn’t!

        3. Casey

          not true, many women work and contribute to the household bills and bringing up the children and doing most of the housework. Many a men left their wife for younger girls who hopefully will suck these men dry -karma. The average men do not earn enough to provide   a good life for the family,so the good wife will work to bring home some money too. She will then be betrayed by the husband in her later age, ran off with a younger chick who is clever enough to suck him dry.

        4. M

          I think you do. Let me explain myself.
          We are not entirely concious about what we are attracted to. You said you are attracted to his ‘maleness’, which I think of as confidence and drive to achieve. Traits which will be able to provide security. Wealth has a close relationship with these, so yes, I think you indirectly love him for his money.

      2. 1.5.2

        “Time out” wth? Is he trying to be cute.   Ugh. Men that try to treat women as anything other than an equal really disgust me and of coarse vice versa.

      3. 1.5.3

        That’s called spending quality time together. You should also do the same to him. Well if volunteerism and other social commitments were that important, yup, you deserve to be single as everyone and everything else is much more important than him. You should follow that direction, you are a much free spirited soul that wants to do what she wants and not be tied down.

    6. 1.6
      Laurie A.

      Men are babies who want to be mothered. They will submit to the new wife and walk away from their first family if the new wife desires that.

      1. 1.6.1

        Not only mothered,unable to control what is between his legs. Heard about the western phrase “go and sow your oats” every father taught their sons that in the west. Think Aids father dear.

      2. 1.6.2

        You must be the bitter first wife. There are reasons why he did that. You should check your own behavior the whole time you were with him. SAD!!!

      3. 1.6.3

        Handsome guy over 40 here, i get virtually 0% attention from women my own age ANYWHERE, and attention from women half my age mostly in 20’s why is this?

        1. Ellie

          They are after your money. You needed to ask?

    7. 1.7

      Not all women and not all men either. Life is too short, I took the risk after my husband passed away 11 years ago and I got burned by this man really bad. Never again will I make the same mistake. I’m staying single from now on. Women with money are harder to find really love.

      1. 1.7.1

        This gets to the heart of the matter, for me. I agree with Evan’s suggestion for women to be less sensitive to insecurity about dating a man who earns much less than them.. but this is easier said than done in a society (and biology) where “men chase women.” And if he’s not chasing you for your femininity, it is for your wealth. The power of initiation still lies with the male.

        A wealthy widower can view an array of attractive young woman and attract them with his money. He will be viewed as more powerful and virile, sexually attractive bc of his money. But a female widower would likely need to hide her money, go after men she finds attractive, and hope they like her too… but her money will not make her more sexually attractive to a man, just more a target for financial predation.

        In this case, I would probably capitalize on women’s more common tendencies to bisexualism and go for a woman.

        1. Ellie

          Young women chase older men for wealth just as much as men chase older women for wealth. I’ve yet to meet any 20 year old that is sexually attracted to a man over 40 purely for their appearance. It is the same for women and younger males (although until recent times, the situation was less common as women did not have the same career opportunities).

          I think women are just more honest with themselves about why a young male might be interested in them. Whereas older men love to pretend it’s because the younger woman finds them more sexually attractive rather than their wallet. In addition, there tends to be more wealthier older men looking for a relationship than there are older wealthy women. Most single over 50s women with money that I know of prefer to spend their time with other women, as they have no interest in starting families now.

          I personally don’t mind having men pursue me for my money. I see it as hiring a male courtesan on a long term basis. I’m realistic enough to know that it likely isn’t for my looks (unless they have a fetish for older women) and plan accordingly. But I’ve had several male friends act surprised when their latest young conquest leaves them for a younger model after enjoying their ‘company’ (money) for a while. They pay their student loans, buy them clothes and cars, take them on exotic holidays, then wonder why the women end up leaving afterwards.

          I think everyone just needs to be honest about their intentions and enjoy whatever situations are available to them as open and mature adults. The difficulties only occur when one or more partners convinces themselves that the rules of nature do not apply.

      2. 1.7.2

        Hello Mimi,

        I understand how you feel and I think I would feel likewise. However Magic Johnson was right when he was talking to Mr. Thomas. He said,   to Mr. Thomas how do you know she loves you for you. Thomas said I know. Magic said women are very good at playing love when there is money to be had.

    8. 1.8

      I hope that you realize that your experiences, though not unique, are not universal.  Just like all men are not like your ex husband, not all men are like the ones you have recently dated.

      It took me nearly four years after my marriage was over to be able to date again and to really be a complete person. It seems that many people become so comfortable in marriage that they feel a need to jump back into being married as quick as possible.

      I understand your frustration with these men; and also understand why you would find their insistance to rush through the stages of a relationship unsetteling. I wonder if these men are much like myself following my divorce–and just have not put their lives back together.

      Since we can not change the desires of other people, we must concentrate instead on what we can change in our own behavior–in order to get the outcome that we desire.

      It seems here, that you really have two seperate issues: 1) you want specific traits in a person you date/ in a partner 2) you want this partner to follow a specific timetable.

      Both of these issues are in your power to control by selecting dates with similar work/ life balance goals as yourself and also by setting boundaries early and clearly in a relationship.

      I hope that you find what you are looking for.


  2. 2

    I deal with this subject everyday online albeit not with “millionaire” women just with women(45-60) that after I do a little Google research on them I find out that they’re extremely well off. They themselves may or may not be in upper level management. Their ex hubby is a __________(doctor, lawyer, fill in the blank with any high status/earning title). Believe it or not there are a lot of these women on Match as we speak but when I search for their male counterpart they have very little if anything to choose from and wouldn’t even think of something so ridiculous as “dating down” to a guy (like me) making a paltry 100K. Even though in the looks department some of them may be a “4” and would have no value even to Joe Workboots let alone a man of equal status. Of course some are very attractive but then their ex is dating or married to someone 10-15 yrs younger than them who’s equally attractive. Wife/girlfriend 2.0 for well off men is rarely the same age as the first. Bottom line is, in the over 50 crowd because none of us really “needs” anyone for anything, unless someone “blows us away” with a connection(for men) or equal status, power, money (for women). We’ll all remain single…….and yes like Evan’s mom said “sometimes lonely”. 🙁

    1. 2.1
      Jen C

      Hey, I’m alone and in my 50’s, not usually lonely but did just spend my birthday, thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Day, New Year’s Eve and Day, alone, by myself. I’m not comfortable or well off; I’d like to know how women “suck” or “bleed” men dry of their assets! I certainly am extremely naive, didn’t know anyone who had gotten divorced, he kept taking, and taking, and taking, showing no remorse. Eventually I was educated about domestic violence and abuse.

  3. 3

    My view is skewed because almost every well off woman I’ve known has money from family and/or ex-husband. Many of those who have been single for a while have invariably been screwed by gold-digging slackers so they are quite wary of being “taken” again. Others simply want to, at a minimum, maintain the standard of living they currently have. I went out with one lady who was receiving $8k/m in lifetime alimony and had a large nest egg from the divorce. She’s well aware that her alimony stops if she remarries and she told me that she would only remarry if the man signed a pre-nup to pay her at least that amount from the date of marriage and a considerably larger amount if the marriage ended in divorce. She’s certainly being fiscally prudent but her attitude, and the attitude of others, that what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is ours is quite a turn off to someone who has already been taken to the cleaners via the antiquated divorce laws.

    1. 3.1

      Well some of us women get taken to the cleaners also. What really irks me is when some guy says you did well in your divorce, because I was able to buy a house. My money is not from my family nor my ex– I worked throughout my marriage and made the same and sometimes a little more than my ex. So half of the community property was rightly mine– unfortunately I got less.

      I think divorce is ugly and broad generalizations about either gender contribute to keeping us single and unhappy.

      1. 3.1.1

        you are so full of it Claire, i love seeing how women rationalize things, “some” of us get taken to the cleaners, you didnt pay your husband anything at all, getting taken to the cleaners means someone took your money, you just said you didnt get anything in your divorce, and youve worked for it. GOOD welcome to a mans world, it NEVER ceases to amaze me the entitlement of women to take from men, but they want equality in everything also. Its like whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine. YET never will they allow anything taken from them by a man. Why cant this article just say the truth “WOMEN ARE SELFISH WILL NEVER GIVE TO MEN ,AND MEN WILL ALWAYS GIVE TO WOMEN” another funny thing is women seldom ever earn this money they have accumulated. They take a chunk from their family or ex husband.

        1. Bogart

          Evan, and all you other guys and gals…..here is a thought…..
          How can anyone feel sorry for a ‘wealthy’ man who gets taken to the ‘cleaners’ in   divorce court or in any other relationship when he chooses a female that he knows has scant financial resources?   I have a relative right now who is 50. She has had good jobs in the past, but is laid off for 2 years now. Divorced for 20 years. Has been with MANY men. First husband was wealthy, she wasn’t.   He dumped her after 5 years because she was spending his $$$ faster than he could make it.   Now, she has finally ‘found’ another wealthy physician who owns a large practice. YES, she knows how to make men   ‘FEEL SPECIAL’ because she has A LOT of practice USING them to meet her financial needs. This physician is not her type physically and there is no sexual attraction on her part( yes, I have known her since her mother was pregnant with her)….I know this. She leeched on when he was seperated and going through a divorce and has already moved in.   GUYS, I can tell you, these women know what they are doing because they have a lot of practice, NOT because you are ‘SPECIAL.’   Of course, they will not tell you the TRUTH about their past(don’t delude yourselves).   This physician’s ex-wife is also a physician. Totally different than the one he has now. This one has MESMERIZED him with the big fake boobs, fake bleached blonde hair, liposuction and sex..FAKE….FAKE….FAKE.   He has already told her he is madly in love with her and wants to spend the rest of his life with her.   GOOD LUCK DUMB-DUMB! YOU WILL NEED IT!

        2. JennLee

          This goes both ways.   Both men and women can become mesmerized by beauty, and then ignore the fact that the other person isn’t nearly as enthralled as they act.   Cougars anyone?

        3. Karmic Equation

          If your friend’s love is decided by his c*ck, he’s got no one to blame but himself if he gets taken to the cleaners by the woman.
          Just as it is a man’s prerogative to sleep with women without commitment, it is a woman’s prerogative to have sex with a man for access to his assets, not his ass. haha

        4. Karmic Equation

          What exactly have you got against cougars, anyway?
          Since my divorce, I’ve only had relationships with men younger than I am, primarily because I look younger than my age, and, never having had children, retained my girlish joie de vivre.
          There are indeed older women who “prey” upon younger men. And there are older women who are chased by younger men, and then let them catch her.
          The former is quite a sad situation indeed, though not worth of derision. The latter? As long as the women has common sense and realizes that a relationship with a much younger man (more than 10 years) will rarely work, particularly if he’s childless, she is in the driver’s seat. She shouldn’t be derided, but emulated. Why? Because she knows exactly what to do when the right, age-appropriate guy comes along.

        5. twinkle

          @Bogart: In my own limited experience, men like that physician u mention are not that common. For eg, I’ve met many of my bf’s friends, a lot of whom are successful gd-looking guys, and their gfs and wives are almost invariably attractive, classy and charming. Most seem intelligent, though not always brilliant or high-earners.
          U said “How can anyone feel sorry for a ‘wealthy’ man who gets taken to the ‘cleaners’ in   divorce court or in any other relationship when he chooses a female that he knows has scant financial resources? ”
          The truth is that plenty of men lose a lot in divorces from women who seemed like ‘wife material’–with sweet natural-ish looks, soft personalities. Because these women didn’t have high salaries. U are wrongly linking “scant financial resources” to the fake-looking, obviously gold-digging behaviour u saw in your relative.
          It seems that some of us have an exaggeratedly-high estimate (sorry if I’m using the wrong words to express myself, lol) of how many successful but foolish men fall for and get ripped off by blatantly empty-minded, artificial bimbos. Becos those are prominent bemusing cases we notice, like how we notice airplane crashes   and thus overestimate their rate of occurrence. Which makes us lack sympathy for the men who get screwed in divorce courts, child support judgements etc, because we think “A fool and his money…”. Some of these men are good men who chose seemingly-great women, who couldn’t have seen it coming.
          In this particular respect (not judging partners by their income, and daring to take financial risks if they love someone), the average man is superior to the average woman, IMO.

        6. Bogart

          Twinkle…..A LOT of GOLD-DIGGING behavior is exhibited by women who DON’T have the same physical characteristics as my relative. The physical characteristics vary, as do the tactics and tone of their personalities.   THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS THIS: IF YOU HAVE ASSETS YOU DON’T WANT TO LOSE-DON’T PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO LOSE THEM. PERIOD. You sound pretty young and/or naive…..especially that definition of what you consider to be ‘wifely qualities.’ Appreciate your response! Good luck!

        7. Robert

          Bingo!!!! Women are selfish! The man never gets credit for his contributions. My ex did not work and did not want to work. She also did a lousy jobs rearing kids. They all have taken my side in our divorce (even my step children). She ran off with a deadbeat from her high school days that she now supports. But somehow everything is all my fault. I am just a rotten SOB, who got up day in and day out to support the family. WTH!!

    2. 3.2

      These women are smart. If you do not want her money show sincerity by agreeing to pre-nuptial agreement.Rich men want that agreement to . accept it and enjoy your marriage.So many marriages broke because of men infidelity or exchanging your old one for a trophy wife. Men know that young vixen are out for comfort   and money , look a the wrinkly old rich and famous men with their young bimbos.Men because of their hormone and stupidity will always go for young vixens. and discarded their old and loyal wife. So you old wife wise up and go for his asset and money ,you deserve it. cheer up and do it well.

      1. 3.2.1

        Most women in these types of situations with a well off man, that has worked his ass off to be well off and maintain it, bait and switch the  men.   They pretend to be nice, loving, loyal, and horny while dating.   Once married, the real monster rears it’s ugly head in these woman.   Not nice any more, don’t want you around your house, no sex or very rare mercy-morgue type sex, condescending, not contributing in any way to the finances.   They tell you don’t do XYZ (all the classic BS in the marriage articles) and that’s why I’m acting like this.   You then do A-Z to try to please them and it still doesn’t work and you figure out it’s complete BS.   These women are just using you.   No wealthy or non wealthy man  should marry anyone these days.   If they are suckered into it, they HAVE to get a solid prenup and pray it holds up.   My grandmother was one of the nicest people I have ever known and in no way was like the women I see everywhere today.   I’m sure there are a few really honest-solid women out there, but it’s like finding a needle in planet sized haystack.   The courts and government are completely set up to totally screw the vast majority of men that get married and then find themselves cut off from love and sex.   The women threaten to take the kids, more than half of everything, and divorce.   It’s a nightmare.   Men – Do Not Get Married.

        1. Darryl

          I could not agree more. We are conditioned to feel driven to value our worth by the presence of another half, but really, when is all and said and done, is it worth the mess that follows? I have worked damned hard to repair the mess my marriages made of career, businesses, finances, health  and personal life  and intend in future to limit my relationships to classic sugar ones. I know what I am getting, she knows where I stand and no one is fooling anyone with tales of undying devotion that are invariably unmet, despite all the hard work. That’s a damned awful waste of 3 score and 10.

  4. 4

    I believe that this is indicative of a pervasive problem in our society where many women only want the parts of equality that they like, while continuing to avoid the responsibilities that come with being truly equal. Women have demanded, and received, equal opportunity in the workplace. Further, women have demanded that they no longer be confined to the traditional roles that are tied to being a housewife. Men, by and large, have been accepting and accommodating to these expectations. However, many women have not changed their expectations of men, and they don’t want to accept the responsibility of bearing the majority (or even half) of the household and dating expenses.

    Women are free to do what they want, of course. However, it’s hard to really see them as equals until they are readily willing to marry men that make less, or pay for the majority of dates, in the same way that most men are readily willing to do so. Women’s refusal to be flexible when it comes to their potential partner’s financial capacity drastically reduces their chances of finding love, and it makes them appear to be inferior to men because it implies that they are dependent on men for financial support.

    Sadly, their own hardheadedness increases the likelihood that they will remain alone, and inferior.

    1. 4.1

      Chance –  
      I don’t know what kind of women you’re running into, but as many complaints as you seem to have about “women who won’t date or marry men who make less” , I can’t help but wonder if you’ve asked around amongst your guy friends about how resistant they are to dating / marrying a woman who makes more than they do.
      All too frequently, men complain about women who “hold money over their heads” or “fling their money into men’s faces” — when all that’s really happening is that the women are going to work and working hard just like any other normal person … and it’s the men who are hypersensitive about how they feel their relative status is being perceived who are overreacting.
      (There’s another irony there, in view of those kinds of overreactions, about the societal perception of men being the “logical, rational” ones and women being “emotional”, but I don’t want to digress too far.)
      Especially when said “status” is something the woman couldn’t care less about (provided she’s taken reasonable precautions to safeguard her hard-earned money from the kind of man who only cares about how much of that he could get from her — and one could hope that she’d be able to see that before making a permanent commitment, but women can be vulnerable not only for safety-related reasons, but also because they get a lot of flack from society about being “unwanted” if they’re single — a little like this article’s subtext — and men can be crafty, deceptive manipulators) because she wants someone who loves her for her.
      I mean, the irony of this, as much as one whining and complaining as one hears from men about “gold-diggers” in the same breath, just really amazes me sometimes.

      1. 4.1.1

        Hey Chance ,

        It goes both ways. It depends on the couple and the circumstances.



    2. 4.2

      You’re right Chance.   I’ve dated so many women who want to be “equals”, except when it comes to me spending all my money on dinner, movies, trips, and that would eventually lead to me spending all my cash on the bills while they have their earnings for frivolous shopping, etc.   Most women only want equality where it’s comfy for them.   Thankfully, I never married or they would have also fleeced me in a divorce.
      Single moms are the worst.   As the years go on it seems single moms feel entitled to all that men have.   I’ve had single moms deep in debt, who chose a deadbeat to have children with, who now have a couple kiddos and don’t get child support (course they act like best friends with the deadbeat).   Then, they get mad at me when I tell them if we would marry I won’t pay for their kids’ college because if I’d had my own kids I also wouldn’t pay for my own kids’ college since I worked for mine.   They think what’s mine is all for them and their kids, and think I should rescue them from the messes they created themselves.   So much for equality.

    3. 4.3

      BS. Women want a man who can at least match her financially because she knows she will be saddled with the majority of “unpaid work” which means a huge increase in her free hours spent doing housework, cleaning, cooking, laundry, and childcare while he kicks his feet up in front of the tv. Women still do the majority of “unpaid labor” while men enjoy the privilege of simply being men – exempt from the tedium and drudgery of “women’s work.” And don’t defend the once-a-week, five-minute tasks of taking out the trash or once-a-month mowing the lawn or once-a-year working on the car. The time spent doing unpaid household work is drastically disparate. Why would a woman who can afford to live independently go back to picking up and cleaning up after an ungrateful, entitled, lazy, selfish slob? For love? Please. Fool me once…

      1. 4.3.1

        I just love this comment. THANK YOU!

      2. 4.3.2


      3. 4.3.3
        Karmic Equation

        If the man won’t do the housework and the woman also doesn’t, they can both chip in to get a housekeeping service.
        And if the man won’t do it, and the woman is working too many hours, you can just let the dust collect. Who cares?
        The one who cares about the dust and the housekeeping more has to do it. If that happens to be the woman, so be it.
        As for laundry and dishes, that can’t really pile up. Just divvy up the putting in and taking out. I have no probs stacking the dishwasher, but I HATE unloading it. Same with laundry, I don’t mind sorting and hanging what needs to be air dried, but I HATE folding. My former live in BF did the dishwasher unloading and most of the clothes folding 🙂
        Worked out great. And on those rare occasions where I vacuumed, he moved the furniture (the part I hated) while I did the vacuuming (the part I didnt ‘really mind).
        The problem is with the scorekeeping that most women do. There are chores that we don’t mind doing and there are chores we do. Same with men. Do the chores you don’t mind and don’t score them. And work it out with your guy on the stuff you BOTH DON’T want to do.
        Who says women have to do it all? The women. Men rarely notice the dust. If they complain then show them the vacuum and the duster. They rarely complain.

      4. 4.3.4

        Women do unpaid work? Why should an ex-wife be compensated for her Junior League or Friends of the Library commitments?


        All of the philanthropy, bridge and tennis leagues, and community “unpaid work” projects cost her husband money and only serve to contribute to the woman’s social standing.


        I think men are crazy going into a marriage without a prenup! My uncle was stupid enough to do so, and he was a contract attorney. He ended up having to bill 2000 hours a year and do doc review part time in his 80’s because of outrageous alimony.


        As for women marrying men that take out the trash, mow their own yard, or fix their own car — what did you expect? If you marry someone that has to do any of that stuff, you shouldn’t be surprised that he watches TV!


    4. 4.4

      Rubbish, look around many a women are left to bring up children alone in the west and also in Africa and India and elsewhere. In Uk   The Govt had to give up chasing after the father for child support. So many men fathered so many children via so many women. Many a woman had been fooled by this type of men. So you women choose your partner well or you will have to bring up children fathered by these spineless men.

  5. 5

    Maybe Evan’s mom is just waiting for someone that stirs her heart. Maybe having lost one husband, perhaps she is not eager to experience that loss again. Statistically speaking men tend to die younger than women.

    Having seen both my parents (my parents divorced) as dating singles in their retirement years, I can say both of them feared greatly the loss of income that might result if they had a new partner without funds of his/her own; both felt unattractive due to medical issues and a no longer youthful body; both feared being used for money. From my vantage point, I felt they each had accumulated a host of fears in regard to life and relationships neither could overcome.

    Last, I live near a mobile home park for seniors and often see many men in their 60’s, who are either caregivers for their nearly disabled wives or living mostly separate, with their dogs as companions. I see them reaching out for friendship, companionship, etc from other men and strangers even. So while I see why Evan’s mother might hesitate, I see some lovely men out there that would be willing to accept a nice older woman just as she is, men who might be a bit scared about what a woman would expect from them.

    Perhaps a good talk about expectations and what Evan’s mom would like to have is in order? I had this talk with my Dad several times before he passed away, and know that he would have enjoyed just having someone to be a special person to him, to eat dinner with him, watch movies with him and to share days with him. Perhaps if Evan’s mom knew that not too much would be expected of her, she might be more willing to open to someone new.

    1. 5.1

      FWIW, at birth life expectancy for American women is only 5 years greater than it is for men.   By the time people are 60, it’s only 3 years.

      1. 5.1.1

        Joe – Not sure what the source of your life expectancy stats are…
        The last time I looked into life expectancy stats for some one in my demographic (white, born in the mid-1960’s), average life expectancy for a male was 68, and for a female it was 75 = 7 years longer than the male.
        See the official CDC stats at: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_03.pdf.
        Interestingly enough, for those born in later decades (70’s, 80’s, 90’s) the gap between male & female life expectancy reduces. For people born in 2008, male life expectancy averages 76 and females average 81 – so the gap is down to 5 years (from 7).
        Given that most women are likely to marry a man close to them in age, or older, the average woman is highly likely to spend at least 10 or more years on her own after being widowed – and she will need to be able to finance those additional 10 or more years of life and health / medical / long-term care.
        I think this is a major factor in the decision by women “of some means” (significantly above average net worth, but not in the top 1%) to NOT re-marry – they have enough income & retirement savings to finance a comfortable life for one person but may not have enough to finance two people as well as those extra 10+ years they are likely to be alone and/or they can’t afford to lose any of their retirement savings in a future divorce (pre-nups are not infallible).

        1. Ted

          So why should a man ever get married by that logic????? Sounds like these women want to stay as far away from having half of everything they have now taken from them in a divorce……

          In the majority of these situations, men usually have the most to lose by getting married.   Men need to wake up and realize how badly they are being lied to and used by the majority of the female population.

  6. 6

    My 2-cents is that women are more adept at forming platonic relationships than men are, so while women get lonely, we can be fulfilled enough in our other relationships to get by. If a man wants to fill that need for relationship or companionship, he seeks out a woman because women tend to be the relationship builders. I don’t think guy friends share the same level of emotional intimacy and vulnerability that female friends do. Just a guess.

    1. 6.1

      You are 100% correct, we don’t at all. Even at my age of 53 men do not build or even maintain intimate friendship relationships with each other the way women do. We either have a relationship with a woman or family or distant acquaintances with men our own age that we see “out and about” in our social circles from time to time. What we don’t do is call other men to see “how they are” or “if they’re all right” etc…… It is what it is at least from my experiences.

    2. 6.2

      Excellent point, starthrower68.

    3. 6.3

      Yes that is a very interesting point!

    4. 6.4

      I tend to agree starthrower. Some of us don’t expect anything like money, status, marriage, etc.. We just want companionship occassionally. Just dinner or dancing and if it leads to more, then great! But overall, we’re OK alone. We’ve had relationships that didn’t work out and we learned from them. We don’t sit back and blame, we deal with it and move on! You’re ok, I’m ok, we just weren’t   ok together!

      1. 6.4.1

        good for you. ENjoy companionship it is long lasting.   Can men do it, as most of them think between their legs. They wrinkles   and grow frail too. .Men and women should try to be friends and not jumping into bed. Gay men make good friends to   straight women…… so   why can,t the rest of the so called he men, think with your head and not between the legs.

  7. 7

    This only goes to show that women are more smarter than men.

    1. 7.1

      Women being smarter then men is highly questionable. But what is not questionable is the fact that women are led by their emotions. So if the opportunity were to arise, and the woman might have a smarter answer then a male, her answer will be affected by which of her answers will cause her to cry! WTF! You know this is true so just say your sorry for not looking at everything.

      1. 7.1.1

        You’re making a very broad, sweeping, and dare I say HIGHLY inaccurate judgment about women. We are not led completely by our emotions, anymore than men are completely led by their libido.

        In fact, once women reach middle age, they are far less emotional and/or inclined to spend much time making sure everybody feels good about themselves. Oddly, and perhaps with no shortage of irony, we become quite a lot like men. Focused more on ourselves.

  8. 8

    When I married, I did exactly what you advise women to do, even though this was way before the age of dating coaches :-). I did it intuitively, and it is not surprising, because what you advise is anyhow common sense. I chose my husband based on his looks and character, inspite of the fact he was making less money than me, and knowing that he clearly had a lower earning potential due to lower education and ambition. We dated for 5 years, 2 of which long-distance and 2 cohabitating, so we were both fully aware of what each of us had to offer.

    I would like to explain to you what dating/being married to a man with lower income means from first hand experience for a woman, who is not a millionaire, but just has a high paying corporate job. When we have to decide where to go on vacation, what to buy for the house, for our children, clothes, eating out, etc., he thinks in terms of what he could afford, The fact that we have a double income, and I make more money than him is irrelevant, he still chooses within his own means. When I would like to get something more expensive (like a more fancy vacation) I have to argue and argue. His own income limitation puts a restriction on our spending habits, and I find it exremely annoying that even though I work hard, I am not allowed to fully enjoy the fruits of my labor, or to act generous.
    I have a friend, who, similarly to me, married someone with lesser income and ambition (her husband is also younger). She likes to travel, and her husband says this is too expensive for him to do, so she goes alone or with friends. I know she would love to be paying for them to travel together, but he refuses for this very reason.
    I am realistic, and I know there are things way worse than your husband not willing to go on expensive vacations. Both I and she consider oursleves lucky to have married our husbands. But dating him, and being married to him for 12 years now, I know for sure that he DOES NOT like it when I buy him expensive gifts, or pay for things which he would consider expensive/unreasonable. When a well-off man buys his girlfriend/wife expensive gifts, he would be, like Evan said, adored and admired. When a high earning woman buys her boyfriend/husband expensive gift, she does not feel adored and admired, but gets reminded, by his words and/or reaction about the income difference, and that he could not reciprocate, and that her generosity makes him uncomfortable. This really spoils the pleasure for both of them.
    So, to go back to Evan’s original topic of curiosity (why are men so much more willing to spend their money on partners) – I think the reason is that because men are rewarded for this with positive feedback, whereas women are not.

    1. 8.2

        That also pretty much sums up why women want someone who has achieved more than they did (or at least similar to what they did).  

    2. 8.3

      I think you nailed it.   I have two female relatives in similar positions.   One has stuck it out with her husband, the other eventually divorced.   Men are raised with the same messages about money and gender roles as women.   They’re taught that they should be the primary provider and that image persists for many of them even when that is impossible and/or unnecessary.   I think it’s probably not uncommon for there to be tension in a marriage where the woman is the higher earner.   For many of the men I’ve known, it is a sore spot in spite of themselves and how much they may love the woman.   It messes with their self esteem and in some cases causes a degree of resentment that can be exhausting for a woman to have to combat.   It’s a catch-22 for women because as others have said, men of their age and financial standing are often seeking women who are younger, more attractive, whatever, and dating/marrying down is often a source of friction no matter how “cool” she is with it.   It’s not as simple and problem free as some like to pretend it is.      

    3. 8.4

      In a prior post, you mentioned that you would fantasize about being married to someone who made more money than you.   In another post, you stated that making money is part of what makes a man masculine.   Do you think that, after being with you for twelve years, your husband may have come to realize that you harbor these feelings?   If so, do you think these feelings could possibly be playing a role in your husband’s reluctance to allow you to spend money on him?   
      I only ask because many men suspect that the women they’re with have the same feelings as the ones that you’ve expressed on this very blog, which is why they refuse to allow their girlfriends/wives to pay for things even though these men would appreciate it.   Also, many men are very cognizant of the fact that they are perceived as moochers if their girlfriends/wives pick up the majority of the tab.   One needs to look no further than the comments made after various posts on this blog to see evidence of that.

    4. 8.5
      El Bastardo

      So, when the reverse is true, women don’t put spending restrictions on their men?

      Come on!?

      My father makes less then my mother. But he is a math whiz. Had my mother spent her way, they would be in the poor house. The fact that he restricted them to a budget meant they survived, and thrived, under intense circumstances that would bankrupt and divorce others.

      Now, they are worth so much more.

      Enjoy your life alone with cats. But hey, look at the bright side, you can afford diamond encrusted collars for the kitties rather then a not so lavish lifestyle that you “deserve” with the comfort of an imperfect person who might have still loved you.

      By all means, regale me with your moral superiority!

      1. 8.5.1

        You are forgetting one thing; your dad being a math whiz. He was superior to your mom in other ways if not monetory and your smart mom recognized that. You said it yourself , they were a great team.
        It’s only a problem if the woman is smarter in almost all facets of the relationship and is really getting nothing or. Very little from the relationship.
        Who I’m I kidding,such a relationship won’t even start in today’s world in a developed country like the US so I digress😃

    5. 8.6

      Or another situation: I had significantly more money than an ex boyfriend but I spend modestly and he’d ridicule me for driving an old Honda and chide me for not taking us to fancier hotels. That didn’t feel very good, either.

    6. 8.7

      Wow Kiki, that is one eloquent explanation. Thank you!

  9. 9

    Is it not possible for these women to conceal the fact that they are very wealthy until they know that a man is genuinely interested in them for who they are?

    I also see no reason why, just because a woman is wealthy, she should have to pick up the check all the time. Surely they can both pay their way and, sure, if it comes to something extravagant that she wants, she can pay?

    No one wants to be with someone who is a leech, or where them paying all the time becomes an *expectation*. My ex-boyfriend was well-off and I left it to his desire as to what he would pay for, I never expected it, even though he earned far more than me. I never took advantage. I imagine a wealthy woman could be happy the same way – if she was left to choose what she wanted to pay for and had a man who, though not as wealthy, was able look after himself.

    1. 9.1

      Clare #9 said “No one wants to be with someone who is a leech”. I agree fully with this statement, but perhaps Kiki in #8 would have been better off with a leech! She is married to a guy who respects money and expenses and sounds very responsible and logical and yet she is complaining about it!! Kiki, would you rather be married to a guy who wants to spend every dime of the money you earn??? Your complaints baffle me and also they have nothing to do with how much money a person has/makes. I have known people, e.g. who were millionaire entrepreneurs, but yet drove around in a beat up 10 year old minivan. I also know an average girl who married a rich guy and suddenly became all snobby and would only stay in the most expensive hotels and had to have the lavash lifestyle. So, to me it sounds like your values are just different. Your husband is conservative with money and doesn’t need flashy expensive things and you like the lavash lifestyle. Nothing to do with either person being rich or poor.

  10. 10

    Oh please. I’m so tired of reading “women can’t handle dating down, women are greedy and can’t snap out of gender norms, lol feminism lololol” because guess what my experience as a high-earning woman is?

    Many men, when they get some idea of how much I make, immediately freak out and feel threatened. They assume I’m going to have all the power in the relationship (when relationships aren’t supposed to be about who has more power). Many, no matter how well I treat them, also resent me for not “needing” them — as much as some men love to bitch about women dating up, a lot of men also seem to resent it when they know a woman isn’t subordinate/dependent on them in at least some way.

    And, many men expect me to come home from my long, hard day and… still be a traditional housewife! Do all the cleaning, cook a meal from scratch every day, iron his shirt, and not breathe a word about whether my day was stressful or tiring. Doesn’t matter that I’m as worn out as he is, I’m a woman and he’s a man and we’re at home, time for me to do woman’s work!

    So don’t give me this s#!+ about how it’s just women who have a problem with unreasonable, intractable gender norms. Out of all the dating I’ve done, I’ve had TWO partners where one or both of the above issues wasn’t a long-term problem.

    One was uneducated and made about half of what I did working a similarly exhausting day — and it was never a problem once, because we respected each other and worked hard to make each other feel EMOTIONALLY cared for, and neither of our identities were wrapped up in our jobs or money. He was proud of me for being so accomplished and driven, and I was more than happy to spend my money on conveniences and little luxuries so that we could spend more time together and have a little less stress. We ended up breaking up over kids (I don’t want them, he decided he did) and he’s gone on to marry another lovely woman who happens to outearn him. (Cue the men in the background wisecracking about how he must have been whipped, a pussy, etc, and the women rolling their eyes at how I must have been taken advantage of…)

    The other was insecure at first (he makes good money but I make about 25% more). But once he learned that I wasn’t going to hold anything over his head or demand he serve me, he relaxed, and we were able to work things out. Once again, I’m happy to kick in more of the spending to help us BOTH lead happier, less stressful lives. And he’s been around for 7 years 🙂

    So the happy ending is possible, but these are only two… of MANY. I promise you, for every woman who supposedly expects a man to outearn or provide for her no matter what else he’s got going on, there’s a man who expects his wife to be a subordinate Donna Reed no matter what else she’s got going on. EVERYBODY needs to grow up about this s#!+, you can’t tell me it’s just women!

    1. 10.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      1. No one said it’s “just women”. Work on your reading comprehension. This simply shows that rich men are more willing to remarry than rich women.
      2. More importantly, it seems your personal feelings outweigh a study that would contradict what you believe. Ah, I got it now.

      You really have to understand that when something doesn’t apply to you, you ignore it. You don’t say that it’s not true or attack the messenger.

      1. 10.1.1

        Where was I saying anything wasn’t true, or attacking anyone? If anything, my (admittedly anecdotal/unprovable) post corroborates the study. If I was attacking anything, it was the generalizations about women posted by commenters earlier in the thread. Perhaps my combative tone was over the top, but I’m not sure what I said that justifies condescending remarks about reading comprehension and taking things personally.

        1. m

          ”  If anything, my (admittedly anecdotal/unprovable) post corroborates the study.”
          What you said.   Pretty much all of it, less the profanity.

    2. 10.2


    3. 10.3

      That’s right Steelheart. Just because of your personal experience, EVERY SINGLE wealthy, high earning women have exactly the same experience as yourself. Solipsism much ?

    4. 10.4

      You are right, Steelheart. Men usually resent women who have more education or money than they do. This happens over and over. So I would also say to Evan that it is not because of the “same old problem” of women overlooking certain men; it’s because they’ve tried it and saw the weird interpersonal dynamics that resulted. And Evan, there’s no need to be rude to someone because their experience doesn’t line up with your system…!

      The *article* said that women don’t have as much trouble being alone and want to be truly loved; *you* claimed that it’s because they are overlooking men with less money. I know it’s a big part of your plan for improved dating that women should be more open; but the personal experiences of your commenters is showing that when it’s a huge financial difference with the woman having/earning more — even when they *are* open, results are usually not good.

      1. 10.4.1

        “So I would also say to Evan that it is not because of the “same old problem” of women overlooking certain men; it’s because they’ve tried it and saw the weird interpersonal dynamics that resulted.”


        I don’t think this point gets brought into the discussion enough ever.
        And it happens frequently enough that it really should.

      2. 10.4.2

        I couldn’t agree more with you and Steelheart. I am a middle income earner who owns her own home and doesn’t look to a man for money, and I’ve run into the “You’re too independent,” “I don’t feel like you need me” thing. It doesn’t matter how attentive I am or that my response to that type of remark is, “I might not need financial support from you, but I need other things from you like emotional support and companionship.” It is very frustrating.
        On the flip side, a guy I’d been attracted to for some time happened to stop by when I lived in an apartment. At one point he asked why I wasn’t seeing anyone so I asked him why hadn’t he asked me out. His response was, “I have to get myself together before I date someone like you.” I’d like to add we worked together so I know we made about the same amount of money.  
        I’m not flashy, I drive an economy car so it’s not like I am materialistic which I don’t have anything against. I’m a nice woman who carries herself well like so many out there. I say all of that to say, it’s not as cut and dry as the article and commentary says.

        1. Nissa

          GMarie – I am a middle income earner who owns her own home and doesn’t look to a man for money, and I’ve run into the “You’re too independent,” “I don’t feel like you need me” thing. It doesn’t matter how attentive I am or that my response to that type of remark is, “I might not need financial support from you, but I need other things from you like emotional support and companionship.” It is very frustrating.
          I have gotten that also. Isn’t it EMK who asks women, “what do you need  protection from, falling anvils?” EMK, do you have an article that discusses the man’s point of view, in why they like to be needed? For the record, I think a person’s needs should be respected even when I don’t understand them, but I think it would help me to offer more if I understood why (apparently) men get warm fuzzies when they are needed. I grew up with needy people (not in the appropriate emotional spectrum)   and they give me the willies.

        2. Stacy2


          Men want to feel needed, but they actually don’t want to be needed. They like to have their ego stroked and enjoy the power trip, but when it actually comes to putting their money where their mouth is they are screaming about women spending their money, getting alimony in divorce, etc. It’s like .. dude… you wanted this gentle, kind, dependent arm candy of a wife and now you are complaining that she spends your money? Wtf. There’s a huge irony in that men are stereotypically viewed as a “rational” gender, yet a lot of them they tend to make their dating/mating decisions in the most irrational way possible.

  11. 11

    Another aspect that the original article mentioned that wasn’t mentioned here is, “Divorced women are more likely to have had an unfaithful husband, says attorney Jeff Landers, author of “ Divorce: Think Financially, Not Emotionally .” Landers–who has an exclusively female clientele–says many women are divorcing because of a cheating husband.

    I do agree that men don’t necessarily care if a hot woman uses them for a sugar-daddy, but I don’t think many women want to be used as sugar-mamas, as the article states, “Only 60% of divorced millionaire males surveyed said falling in love would be the most important factor in their decision to remarry, while the remainder said they’d go into a marriage to “share their wealth” or to “spoil a beautiful woman.”. Women, OTOH, don’t want to feel as if they are “buying” love.

    I do agree with Steelheart (#10), though, that some men are still threatened by a woman who out-earns them. That could also be a factor in a wealthy woman’s reluctance to remarry. Too bad the article didn’t touch on that.

    1. 11.1

      I think the issue of men being threatened by women who earn more is more common in my parents’ generation. You won’t find many Gen-Y guys that would be uncomfortable with this. Also, one has to consider that a big reason men feel threatened is because they know most women don’t respect men who make less than they do.

      1. 11.1.1

        I think you’re right Gen-Y isn’t as encumbered by these feelings, especially since most of them have very little money. So I guess the point is kind of moot.

      2. 11.1.2

        So Gen-Y men don’t care if a woman makes more money then they do, but Gen-Y women don’t respect a man who makes less?

        1. Chance

          You’d be surprised at how common that is.

        2. Julia

          Well, if a man made less then me he’s basically be in poverty. If he made the same as me I would be fine with it.

      3. 11.1.3

        “You won’t find many Gen-Y guys that would be uncomfortable with this.”

        If you really believe this, I’m thinking you need to get out more.

        (I’m also wondering if you’re limiting your observable pool of Gen Ys to “the guys I know”. In which, case, actually, my first suggestion still stands.)

        1. Chance


          Yeah, your point is completely hollow. I could say the same thing about you if you believe that most women don’t have a problem with men who earn less, or that most men have a problem with women who earn more: “You need to get out more” and “you’ve formed your belief from the women and men that you know”. Of course our view on things is formed by what we observe and what we experience, which is largely influenced by the people we know.

          You haven’t even started to provide a meaningful argument, but I suppose I shouldn’t expect any more from someone who, in a prior post, tried to use the fictitious pay gap as the reasoning for why men should pay for dates.

    2. 11.2

      Oh, and to your point about divorced women being more likely to have an unfaithful husband. This makes sense because women who cheat are more likely to do so for emotional reasons. Therefore, when a woman strays, she will be the one who will likely initiate divorce and then get married to the person who she was cheating on her original husband with. As a result, she would not be included in the pool of divorced women.

      Food for thought.

  12. 12

    I don’t have any money so I don’t really need to worry about this. I’d probably be more willing to spend money if I had some. Where do I get one of these millionaire divorcees?

  13. 13
    Dina Strange

    It’s not fair to compare men and women in this regard. Perhaps women have problems lying to themselves, the way men do. Perhaps women look in the mirror and see that they look old, and perhaps a bit fat..and that there is no way attractive, young, hot guy will date them IF they didn’t have the money.

    Men are much easier with that. As long as she pretends that she loves him, he will believe her or his ego will believe her. Way harder for women to believe. I mean examples abound. Also women do have emotional network so they don’t feel as lonely…men rely on women to create emotional networks and connections around them. That could be another reason but personally i do still think women have harder time lying to themselves the way men do.

    1. 13.1

      Unattractive men with money KNOW that attractive women stay with them for the money and they are fine with that. These men are NOT kidding themselves – if they were that delusional they would not be making any money in the first place (exception is if it is inherited money). Men are OK with it because as hard as it may sound, they know they are “paying” for sex, arm candy and attention. It has always been that way with them.
      Women cannot accept someone stays with them for their money. It hurts their sense of worth and self, which resides not in their ability to make money, but in their inherent ability to attract people and men to them.

      Men are transactional and pragmatic in this way. Women are not.

    2. 13.2

      Not really like that Dina Strange, when a divorced woman decides not to remarry, or not to love a man with all her heart, she may lost all trust in men and marriage regardless she is rich or not. And also she may have kids and she wants to stay with them to   educate them. Her love and her responsibility for the kids is always bigger than that for men. I am a Vietnamese   single mom living and working in Vietnam, I met many cute and decent men after my divorce but i said no to all of them as i have 2 kids and i dont want to be remarried. Women always have big love for their kids regardless nationalities. Not all men   are   so easy to believe girls as you said. They are experienced enough to know who loves him and who not, not easy for girls to pretend. They men just pretend that they believe.

  14. 14

    Of course wealthy men would marry again. Men like to be taken care of and as indicated in the article, their egos play a role. A woman who has a lot of money already has security. Money means that to a lot of women. It certainly does to me. As a women in her 50’s and who’s been down the road of marriage, raising kids, working, yadda, yadda, yadda, I don’t feel compelled to partner up (been divorced for a while). And, I’m not wealthy. Just enjoying my time to do what I want!

  15. 15
    Soul Sister

    I am not wealthy by any means, but I am a corporate executive who makes a significant salary, and I am in my 50s. I have been divorced for several years, and I do see issues with men knowing I make more money AND I have a high level job. These are just a few of my experiences as a woman who works for her money (not inherited or given):

    1). I have been told I don’t “need” him as much as other women do (true, I do not HAVE to stay with anyone, so more likely to only stay because I want to, which does require some men to keep their behavior at a high level consistently and not start slacking off the romance and attention). Feeling needed seems to be very important to men. Feeling wanted is more important to me.

    2). It takes a certain personality for a woman to be able to stand in a board room full of men and hold her own. Not saying it is right or wrong, but it is different. As that is part of my personality to be able to do so, I am not very soft and nurturing. I am not a bitch, I am very feminine, but I also admit I do not have that big “let me take care of my man” gene. I am more likely to pick up take out on my nights to cook than worry about making a home cooked meal. But I do want to feed him well so take out is never fast food!

    3). Same issue with the man wanting me to do things that are within his financial means, even if I am paying. One man told me I was taking his “manhood” because I liked going out for more expensive dinners than he could easily afford, even though I was fine paying or contributing. But then I wonder why I am drinking a $5 happy hour wine, when I really would enjoy a $15 wine that is more worth the calories to me and I can afford it and what I would already buy for myself.

    4). Men typically do not have the type of relationships that also can provide emotional intimacy. I become my boyfriend’s best friend, when in my world I have several female best friends already. So I am never lonely.

    5). The men I know who are wealthy are typically married to younger, unprofessional, very attractive women. Even if they are overweight, unattractive, or much older. They are much more willing to pay for arm candy than a woman is. And they are also much more likely to be fine with a woman who does not match them intellectually, as long as she looks good. She spends her time working out and taking care of the house. I would rather spend my time working or discussing last nights episode of Shark Tank and who he would have picked and why. I do work out, but it is not my life mission, I just have too many other things going on. What is interesting about this, is in a social situation, I am way, way more likely to be talking to him than his wife. The wife usually has nothing in common with me. He does. And I can tell he is really enjoying talking to me as well.

    Last, I agree with one of the posters: After a long, stressful day at work, I am still expected to come home and start taking care of him too. Sometimes I am just too tired, and maybe I would like someone to take care of me. So it can be easier to not be married, just date, and know when I am tired I can go home and just take care of me.

    The pool of men who really enjoy being around a professional, educated, self sufficient woman is much smaller than the pool of men who enjoy being around a young, hot, maybe not so self sufficient woman. Even if looks are equal. But yes, I do occasionally find men who really want and enjoy being with a woman who is their equal in every way. Unfortunately, not that often in my generation though. I just don’t have a lot of incentive to marry again.

    1. 15.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Soul Sister: “Maybe I would like someone to take care of me.”

      That. That’s it. You need a man to take care of you at the end of a long, hard, day. Who is that gonna be? The guy working 60 hours a week and traveling 12 week a year? Or the high school English teacher who is home at 4 and has his summers off? Obviously, it’s the latter. But the point of this article, blog post, and my entire business is that until you’re willing to CHOOSE and VALUE him, you’ll have no one to take care of you. Men get the value of having someone to care for them. Women still insist that the man who takes care of you at home should also outearn you in the office. It’s a broken paradigm.

      You need a wife, Soul Sister. Just like I do. So why wouldn’t you choose one?

      1. 15.1.1
        Soul Sister

        Hi Evan, thanks for your reply. Because women know how to be wives, men do not. I have no problem paying, they have the problem with it and get resentful. I would be thrilled if I came home to a nice dinner and a clean house…but unless I do it (or hire it), most likely it is not going to happen. Even the teacher wants to the “the man”….I did find one that would have been perfect…had he not been 20 years younger than me. The few women I know who do have house husbands, about the best they do is help with the kids. They do not take care of the home, and they do not have dinner on the table when my friends get home. So she works 60 hours, comes home to a messy house, and then cooks the dinner. And he gets a very, very easy life…..although I am sure there might be an exception out there, I just haven’t met him.

        1. MsB.

          Hi Soul Sister, we are not on the same boat at all, but just a thought, I am wondering if you are a “dominant woman” and would be interested in dating “submissive men”. I am dominant myself what you describe is easily available by seeking “submissive men”. Many of whom are very successful but seek the submissive role at home. Just a thought. This type of man does all the housework, It leans slightly towards the “fetish” but I recommend you look into it. It’s called the Female Led Relationship. Google it:)

      2. 15.1.2

        I don’t agree SoulSister needs a wife – what she actually needs is a man who is all about the relationship itself,  not about holding the power in it  (usually  by  the financial means), which, unfortunately, is mostly the case.  

        1. Kathy

          I was a professional woman (an accountant) for many years when I met my husband When we married he made it available for me to stay home and take care of our children who were quite young (mind and his and we had another). So, I did. I gave up a VERY lucrative career and he took on the entire responsibility of financial providing.

          In time it became very apparent to me that he used money to control me and “keep me in my place.” It was very degrading to me and profoundly damaging to my self worth and dignity to have to “ask” for money to have things I wanted. I tried to renegotiate the terms of our marriage so that I could have my own money that I didn’t have to justify or beg for. I knew it would remove the element of control from our marriage and hoped as a result we could actually treat each other as equals in the marriage. Not financially, but as human beings both worthy of love and respct and honor.

          Interestingly he resisted all of my effort to establish that in the marriage. Why? Because he wanted me to be subordinate to him in all things and money was how he did it. I tried for close to 20 years to change that dynamic but he resisted me on all fronts.

          We finally divorced because I just couldn’t take the degradation any longer. I am now quite comfortable financially with a career I love and a life free of the pain of feeling like nothing more than a possession to him.

          I’m close to 60 now. I can never see myself marrying again. Yes, I get lonely too. But, I am capable of filling the loneliness with things I love……gardening, reading, writing, working, spending time with my children and a houseful of funny and entertaining animals.

          It’s just easier. I would rather live with far less and have my dignity.

      3. 15.1.3

        ”  Or the high school English teacher who is home at 4 and has his summers off? Obviously, it’s the latter.  ”
        Not so “obvious” if that teacher dude has a chip on his shoulder about her money, or about being willing to take care of her emotionally on a reciprocal level, EMK.
        This kind of thing – that more than one woman is talking about the further I scroll down, and goodness knows this blog or this year is far from the first time I personally have seen this stuff – goes on far more frequently than you seem willing to acknowledge.

      4. 15.1.4

        Evan, I think it is you who are not seeing the true problem here. Most men simply are not interested in dating or having a relationship with a woman who makes more money. I saw this firsthand when my mother inherited. My father had a very tough time with it. It isn’t the women who are the problem, it is the ingrained attitude of the men. I would certainly date a man who made less money, but none are interested in dating me. Even though I am in my fifties, I look about 15 years younger, am attractive, educated, and yes, sexy. I think a poster above hit the nail on the head…men want to be needed, and women want to wanted. And by need, men mean their money. I just don’t get why men can’t see that to be needed and wanted for something other than their money is the ultimate ego boost? Or are they afraid they just can’t cut it without money? I realize I am generalizing, and there are always exceptions to the rule. Please, I’d like to meet an exception.

  16. 16

    Generally speaking, women DO want to be taken care of – even if they are fully capable, high earning and wealthy in their own right. Tandem to this is that women DO NOT generally like to take care of men because it suggests that their men are “weak” and not “masculine”.
    Please ladies, there is nothing wrong about wanting to be taken care of, and not wanting to take care of others. Please don’t try to rationalise it or justify it by saying men are cheaters so they have to pay, or men are old fashioned in their take on gender roles so they have to pay. Or better still, women are still abused in places such as Afghanistan and therefore a marketing executive living in New York should not have to pay !!

  17. 17

    I get so confused. If women want to attract a man, we’re supposed to be soft, feminine, sentimental, sexy, flirty, fun, etc. And then turn around be the breadwinner. I can’t keep up. It’s exhausting trying to get everything right.

    1. 17.1

      Glad this is finally coming out as a concern more regularly (even though some of us have been articulating this problem for … some time).

      A concrete example is how, if we’re going out for a date, women are constantly badgered by the dating & relationship experts to “remove the suit jacket; bring something different to work to wear on the date” — even go all the way home and change clothes before the date (which, in a city like NYC or LA or DC or Boston, with all the traffic, is just … *sigh*).

      It may sound like an insignificant example, but it’s just one contrast demonstrating the principle you speak of, which is that women are expected to jump through twice as many hoops to be considered “desirable partners” — earn your own money, because men hate ‘golddiggers’, but make sure you demonstrate how much you need him, because men need to be needed (even though concrete steps WRT how to do this, other than just flat-out underearning him, are never included in this “advice) — while men don’t have to do any of it.

      I’m not even going to get into the “good men are everywhere” rhetoric v. the actual disparity of numbers of available men who appreciate successful women, as opposed to deliberately & actively seeking out women less “successful” than themselves. Or the professional women who *do* try dating non-professional men, only to be sabotaged and undermined by those men at home and/or out at her professional events. And nobody says a word to these men about their behavior … they just keep chiding and scolding the women.

      1. 17.1.1
        Dina Strange

        Agree with what you said.

      2. 17.1.2

        M, I suppose in all fairness, I should say that because this is a blog for women trying to have a better dating experience, that is why women are the ones advised to jump through the hoops; we’re the one asking the questions. That having been said, I guess it depends on what stage of life you’re at as to whether or not it’s worth all you have to go through. I’m raising children, accomplishing some financial goals, and of course dealing with all the other cares of life. I find that, as much as I’d like to meet a great guy, I simply don’t have the emotional/mental energy it takes to jump through all of those hoops at this time in life. And maybe by the time I would, I will simply be too undesirable. It is what it is. What can ya do?

      3. 17.1.3

        @m: I heartily agree with much of what you’ve written and would love some of these issues to be explored, further.

        However, I don’t think that Evan chides/ scolds us women, even though he does tell us how we can change to have more success with men. As he’s pointed out again and again, he thinks that men have plenty of room for growth, too, but the vast majority of his clientele is female so we’re the ones to whom most of his advice is directed. If 50% of his business came from men, I’m sure 50% of his advice would be telling dudes how they could “up their game.”

      4. 17.1.4
        faded jade

        M – EMK would chide & scold more men, if more men came to him for advice. He actually did tell one petulant male that he was being a bad boyfriend, because said “boyfriend” was complaining that his girlfriend wanted him to call her on a daily basis.

        Most of the “scolding” he does toward his females are for sticking with men who are ABUSIVE, or EU. Other than that, he does advise us to be non-critical of men (while advising us to dump men who are hyper critical of us), to be “cool”, accept a man as he is, find a man who accepts us as we are, and tells us how to be a good girlfriend. What he DOESN’T do is tell us how to reform a guy who is a jerk. Or tell us that it is OUR fault that the jerk in question is a jerk. (like so many relationship experts do) He tells us CONSTANTLY, dump him, dump him, dump him !!!

        I really wish more men would try and figure out how to be better relationship partners, rather than better pick up artists, but men are the way they are. All I, or any woman can do is to keep dumping the bad ones, and when we find a good one, treat him well.

      5. 17.1.5

        In defence of men, I think some of them actually try pretty hard, but I don’t think their efforts always look the same as ours. I am with a really sweet guy at the moment who, by my standards, can sometimes seem a bit distracted or neglectful, but he always checks  that I got home safely, jumps to fix something that’s not working properly (he’s technologically good), pays attention to my moods, keeps his word and his cool, being available to me… stuff I’d probably miss if I wasn’t paying attention, because it’s not how I show love.
        It’s not always easy, and I have a long way to go, but I try to appreciate men for what they *do* do rather than what they don’t do. I’m not talking about tolerating abuse or neglect, but I’ve realised I could make myself very unhappy focusing on the things he doesn’t do, when I could be appreciating who he is. Men are not women – they’re very different. In some ways it’s like learning another language :p

        1. Joe

          That’s actually a good point.   If you’ve ever heard of the 5 Love Languages, it’s like two people with incompatible love languages, or who don’t understand their partner’s love language.

      6. 17.1.6

        Best comment here, m

    2. 17.2

      Ha typical rationalization, you can do both, give it a try, there is nothing mutually exclusive about doing both, i realize you cant keep up but dont give up, men cant we have do so many more things. seriously women you are really nuts. my favorite is “feminists” saying “oh im a feminist so i pay half” HALF??? thats called egalitarianism, a REAL feminist would for her man also, JUST LIKE 99% of men do, pay EVERYTHING.

      1. 17.2.1

        How can two people both pay for everything? Unless I am misunderstanding you.

  18. 18
    Dina Strange

    I wish more men understand that by taking care of their women they take care of themselves and vice versa.

  19. 19

    Androgynous – While married both times and in my long term relationships, I enjoyed taking care of my men. There are more ways to “take care” of a partner other than financially. I guess I am old fashioned but I love to cook for people. I love to learn his favorite dishes, exactly how he likes his eggs, etc. If there is a pot luck at his work, I gladly make a dish for him to take. I enjoy giving my man massages. (I used to be a licensed massage therapist) I like to “take care” of my man in the bedroom. When my guy is sick, I turn into Florence Nightingale. My 2nd ex husband was color blind. I would help him shop for clothes, co-ordinate the colors. Sometimes I would go out and buy clothes for him, bring them home, he would decide what he wanted and what he wanted to return, and I would return whatever he decided he didn’t like. If he asked me to repair his torn clothing, out comes my sewing machine and I’ll fix them for him. With my first husband, he owned his own business, I answered phones for him, took some computer programming classes and did some minor programing. I was a stay at home step-mom to his step son in the summer, (at his request) and loved having his son be an important person in my life. Oh, and when I did work outside the home for pay (which was MOST of the time during my second marriage) I made substantial financial contribution to our household, which is pretty typical with women who work outside of the the home.

    You said “Please ladies, there is nothing wrong about wanting to be taken care of, and not wanting to take care of others” Well first off there IS something wrong with expecting to be taken care of giving nothing in return. It’s called BEING SELFISH. Taking care of each other doesn’t mean you have to take care of each other in THE EXACT SAME WAY. You each can make different, but valuable contributions to the relationship.

    And while you are on this nonsense about women not wanting to take care of anyone, which gender to you think contributes the most labor when it comes to caring for offspring ?

    Among my circle of girlfriends, this is pretty standard. None of us sat back like spoiled entitled princesses while our men took care of us, and gave nothing in return.

    1. 19.1

      @SparklingEmerald . You argue the statement “there is nothing wrong about wanting to be taken care of, and not wanting to take care of others” is wrong, and go on to describe what is sentially a “material exchange” as well as reach a definition for “SELFISH”. I am 100% certain you are unfortunately wrong.
      The quality of love is that the giver gives with no expectation of return, and the receiver has sanction to receive without feelings of being subordinated. That is, under the premise of love it is okay to be on receiving end, it takes one to swallow ones pride to sometimes be in the receiving end of a relationship. The lesser earning man is advised to let his ego, and not let ideas of traditional roles leading to an evaluation of himself to hurt his relationship. Likewise women in higher earning situations should give without asking for return. The reason is because a higher commodity called “intimacy” to which value cannot be ascribed is exchanged. To choose to cohabit with someone, to feel and say loving words, to care like one’s own body, by woman or by man are not automatic gestures. The interaction has a price infinitely more that the worth of a waiter who waits at a table. Pretend love is easily uncovered. The lesser earning male/female is also advised that once a relationship is monetised (by higher earner woman or higher earner man) it is better to leave the relationship, so that they can at least live with self respect even if single, alone and poorer. If there is love in the relationship all monetary and status benefits must be shared equally by the intimate partners. There is only one income, the sum income of both woman and man. The giver does not give and the receiver does not receive, because all belongs to both. This does not mean the intimate partner will slack-off. If a true loving relationship has been nurtured then, lesser able partner will do what they can even if its materialistic value to the higher earner is less, the higher earner will see love in the smaller gestures.
      Historically, not all men have subscribed to the view of family income. when men did, they hired domestic help so that their intimate partners did not have to do house work. Those who had an individualist sense of income did cause cruelty to dependent wives be expecting returns for their provisioning. This does not mean it was right. The provider saw provisioning as the form of love and the receiver was supposed to take cognisance of the love through receipt of provisioning. Today we know provisioning is no where near true nature of love. Now neither women nor men will accept cruelty. Both higher earner men and higher earner women need to subscribe to the family view of income. The earner gets to decide how his/her earned money gets spent, but the dependent has a right to fairness. The total amount spent on the intimate partner must not be less than how much one on spends on one-self. The my money mine, your money yours, is very ugly pattern in a relationship. It is through Intimacy a dependent partner can be made to understand and make him/her to try to be more accommodating and not get unreasonable or uncooperative. It is through security and being needed they will want to contribute more. The intimate partners do what they can. Marriage gives no right to either to treat it like an material exchange.

      1. 19.1.1

        I really like your points. I found it difficult to stop “keeping tabs” on who was spending what or doing whatever in my relationship, not because I’m wary of being used but because my boyfriend is so generous with his time, money and affection, I felt like I had to pay him back. It’s not love to be exchanging favours, it’s an arrangement. An arrangement which, seemingly, many people are not satisfied with. It’s just not enough,
        I’m not sure that sparkling is 100% wrong though. Fairness is still important.

        1. faded jade

          I’m not advocating “score keeping”, so that’s a strawman argument. However, if one is going to argue that score keeping is wrong, I am going to counter that it is wrong to falsely the report the score as MEN – 100% care takers WOMEN – 0%.
          I responded to a post that did just that. Marymary, I really don’t believe that you give your boyfriend zero. Give and take comes naturally to most people in a relationship. It’s not SCORE KEEPING to point that out.

      2. 19.1.2

        You obviously missed the ENTIRE point of my reply to someone who stated that women want to be taken care of without giving anything in return. I was merely showing that there ARE non monetary ways of caring for, and used myself as an example of ways I cared in non monetary ways. (Of course when I worked I contributed in monetary ways as well)

        I am not “wrong” to give to a relationship. I am also not “wrong” to accept what a man wants to give back in a relationship. I do think it is very ineffective to ONLY consider hard dollars and cents and to tell a woman that what she gives doesn’t count if she’s not whipping out the check book or credit card and BUYING something with money.

        I NEVER suggested score keeping, just pointing out that really, very few women are 100% takers and 0% givers as the post I responded to suggested.

        And yes, someone who takes and takes and takes without giving back EVER is going to have a harder time finding love. It’ not really a matter of any “expecting” it, as in the form of a DEMAND, but “expecting” it, because that how most people operate. Also, I would not stay with a man who accused me of being a taker because my monetary contribution was less than his (which will be likely because I only make a modest income) if he did not recognize and appreciate my non monetary contributions. I take care to appreciate and say “thank you” to the people in my life for ALL that they give, not just what they BUY with money. Such a man would probably be TOO focused on money in my opinon and emotionally bankrupt.

        1. faded jade

          That last reply was meant to go to GK, not marymary.

    2. 19.2

      It depends on your definition of “labor” as it relates to caring for offspring. If you don’t count working 45-65 hours per week under stressful conditions to ensure that your children have a roof to live under and have food on the table, then you can say that women contribute more.

      1. 19.2.1

        Chance, not sure if you were responding to my comments about a woman’s care taking or not. OF COURSE I recognize a man’s contribution in the work force. However I was responding to a poster who claimed that men take care of women who contribute NOTHING in return. (he said they like to be taken care of but don’t do any care taking themselves) I was just pointing out the non-monetary ways women take care of the people in their lives. Unfortunately, the non-monetary contributions are usually dismissed as being non-existant or un-important.

        And I don’t know where these hordes of leeching women are. I don’t know ANY women who work, and keep every penny they earn and not share a dime with their families. I don’t know any women who work, keep every dime for themselves and never lift a finger to contribute their labor to a relationship.

        To all these men who think they typical woman is a leech who keeps ALL of her money and sits back and NEVER contributes her labor, you really need to get out and meet MORE women and BETTER QUALITY women. We’re out here. We want to give to you, if you are willing to accept what we have to give.

  20. 20

    Ironically I stumbled upon this brand new book at the library this week that pertains to this thread. “Dollars and Sex: How Economics Influences Sex and Love” by Dr. Marina Adshade. I’m only half way through it but she touches on many of things we’re discussing here.

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