(Video) Matchmaking and Online Dating

Online dating is the most accessible and effective way to find love. Statistics say that at least 1 in 3 marriages now begin online, so there’s no question that it’s a successful medium.

But online dating can be frustrating. In this video, shot with my friends at Three Day Rule, I explain why you may be struggling to make it work for you.

Watch the video above and be sure to share your thoughts below.

Join our conversation (54 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 1
    markgil

    this may be good advice for those who are considered reasonably attractive by societal standards (or perhaps maybe even merely not un-attractive) but there is a segment of the population who is for the most part undateable. the constant rejection inherent in online dating for those of us who are not considered desirable is a huge negative to one’s self esteem.  the old “confidence is attractive” thing is only true if there is also a physical connection-otherwise the man comes off as a creep to the vast majority of women.  besides, without any inkling of success, how does one even sustain any semblance of confidence in the first place?

    i speak from many years of experience as an older, introverted short man with a shaved head who’s only redeeming quality when it comes to attractiveness is being in excellent physical shape.  better to just accept the fact that not everyone is capable of finding mutually fulfilling companionship and to get used to living alone without physical intimacy than to subject one’s self to the inevitable frustrations and failures of OLD-not to mention the expense.

    1. 1.1
      Anna

      To keep this simple, lets say ive been told Im a solid 9…   I only consider initiating contact w guys about a 7.   However I get soooo many emails from men 20 years older or a far far distance in physical attractiveness in regards to taking care of themselves physically or fashionably…..  Inevitably they send a rude email about how “we’re” all the same…

       

      Dearest markgil….start communicating with women you think have inner beauty and common interests that are maybe a notch below what you’ve been trying for.  I GUARANTEE if you treat her with kindness and love, you will find a forever Love…

      1. 1.1.1
        markgil

        thanks for the suggestion Anna, i appreciate your interest and suggestion. in my experience though it’s not that simple.  if the physical attraction is not there then any relationship will merely end up being a friendship and i already have plenty of friends.  i really do not have tremendously high standards but am only attracted to women who are truly fit.  going by thier pictures, many of the people who list themselves as fit or athletic are  in reality not in very good shape.  it’s not as if i have a double standard when it comes to this as i am in excellent shape myself and have worked hard to get there and keep it as it is the only aspect of attractiveness that i or anyone else has complete control over.  unfortunately, when it comes to this area it is vastly different for men and women.  if a women is extremely fit but is only average in looks, she will be very popular with the opposite sex.  for a man, this is not the case unless he also has other specific required traits. i tried settling for someone to whom i was not physically attracted to and will not make that mistake again as it did not end up going well at all.  imo, it is better to be realistic than to have false hope and to accept that there is a segment of the population who is virtually incapable of attracting people of the opposite sex whom they themselves are attracted to.  it most likely is not an impossibility but the odds of it happening are so slim that it may as well be.  as a man, unless one is lucky enough to meet certain unwritten standards in regards to looks (i.e. height and hair to name the top 2), attempts at both OLD and real life dating end up being a constant cycle of rejection, frustration  and disappointment. those of us who did not have much luck in the gene pool lottery either have to settle for someone to whom we are not attracted to or to just get used to being alone.

        1. Nancy Yung-Hoi

          Markgil, have you heard the saying “one man’s meat is another man’s poison” or “for every pot there is a lid”.  Well, i consider myself attractive and men find me attractive so you’ll think i will have no problem finding a man – wrong. Am i fussy? no, i am not. I haven’t any specific look/features that i seek but only good old values/respect and i let the rest take its course/fall in place if at all.  I have not given up all this time.  I know there is nothing wrong with me but may be doing something wrong? I am not sure.  In time i will know if i’m doing something wrong.  Don’t consider yourself as unattractive. Never sell yourself short.  This is the lack of confidence in you that is portrayed on the outside and people (or women) sense or see it.  If  i met the most handsome man but lacked confidence and charm i will ran a mile off. What happened to good old charm? Charm goes a long way with women 🙂 Believe me, i have met some ugly people with beautiful partners who are genuinely in love. Then you start to think how did these guys come to fall in love with each other? Well, you never know what attracts people – “one man’s meat is another man’s poison”. Never give up or sell yourself short. Let that charm and confidence come out and you’ll see who you attract.

  2. 2
    stacy

    I can definitely see how lack of validation can hurt one’s self esteem and morale. Out of curiosity, did you try approaching women who are in the same “category” of looks as you, may be slightly overweight, not that pretty, etc? I am sure these women are having the same experience online. I wonder if your success rate would have been higher with them

    1. 2.1
      markgil

      looks are one thing and i have few preferences in this area. i have made the attempt with people who could be considered average looking, always with negative results. as far as being overweight though, in truth i am not at all attracted to women who are not in good physical condition.  since this aspect of life is almost completely in one’s control, it is not unreasonable to look for someone who has the same values as i do in this area.  in the past, i “settled” for someone to who was quite unfit and to whom i was not physically attracted to and i refuse to make the same mistake again and would rather be alone.  some may consider this to be “too picky” but we are not talking about hair color, the way someone dresses or height-health and fitness have a major impact upon all aspects on one’s life.

  3. 3
    Speed

    @Markgil,
    I can’t agree with your assessment. I’ve seen guys who are “little people,” handicapped, semi-literate, unemployed, ex-cons, and all types with partners. So being short, bald and introverted is hardly catastrophic. The vast majority of men (including of course me) are basically “Average Joes,” so we simply have to work harder. But it’s not like climbing Mount Everest, designing a rocket, or quarterbacking the New England Patriots–where only a super-elite man has any chance. A rational man will eventually figure out what he can pull and target that range. Being rejected, even rejected at a high rate, is just part of what we have to do; it’s the environment. Polar bears cannot complain about snow, and men can’t complain about rejections.
     Anyway, the rejection rate will fall when you target your own range. As Evan has said, don’t just message the Heidi Klum lookalikes “because that is what you are attracted to.” Be realistic and know your caste. We all have to.
     
    Good luck, bro.

    1. 3.1
      mgm531

      @Speed,

      “the rejection rate will fall when you target your own range”.  

      And how, exactly, do you determine what your ‘range’ is?  When all you get with OLD is rejection for every message you send, how is is one determines what your range is?  I’m in somewhat of the same boat as Markgil in that I am relatively attractive, in shape, educated with a well paying job.  My problem is that I’m only 5’7″ tall.  Now I have no problem with my height as I’m perfectly comfortable with who I am and what I am.  But it would be naive to deny that a lot of women (not all) on OLD do.  This is why I tend to agree with people like Markgil in that OLD doesn’t work well for people that are better in person than on paper, so to speak.  For the most part we just get passed over.  What frustrates me is that OLD gets touted so often as ‘The Answer’ to dating for everybody when in reality it is not.  OLD may work well for a lot of people, but there are just as many people that it does not.

      1. 3.1.1
        markgil

        @mgm531

        imo, OLD comes down to selling one’s self and for those of us who don’t have the exact “package” which most people of the opposite sex, maybe we are looking for are better off not deluding ourselves into spending huge amounts of time and usually significant amounts of money chasing something which is so unlikley. some people like to say “dating is just like the lottery-you can’t win if you don’t play”-but what they they fail to realize with this analogy is that that buying ticket only increases one’s odd’s of winning from zero to 1 in 100,000,000.

    2. 3.2
      markgil

      “So being short, bald and introverted is hardly catastrophic.”

      my experience and many others would tend to disagree with this assesment. these characteristics under which one has NO control severely limit one’s options in the dating world, especially when it comes to OLD.

      i certainly feel i am not complaining just pointing out that for a certain class of people, finding a fufilling relationship with the opposite sex is extremely difficult due to factors beyond one’s control.  all anyone can do is to focus on what we can control and do the very best in these area’s but for those of us who don’t meet certain almost universal “standards” of the dating world, it is extremely unlikely that we will have any success in this area.

      “A rational man will eventually figure out what he can pull and target that range.”

      i think the problem is that attraction is not in any way rational and making one’s self attractive to those one finds attractive themselves is not anything which can be done through problem solving.  either it’s there or it’s not and unless someone is conventionally attractive or is willing to put up with countless failures and rejections with no guarantee of any level of success (and very likely willing to settle for someone to whom they are not attracted to), it may be better to just accept the fact due to cirumstances beyond one’s control not everyone in this world is capable of finding a mutually fufilling relationship and to focus on other things in life.

      the old “there is someone for everyone” adage is another of many misleading and just plain false philosophies of life. even if there are thousands or tens of thousands of true matches for the average person, the odds of interacting with them in a social setting is extremely minute and the vast majority of people tend to just settle for someone so that they are not alone.

       

       

       

      1. 3.2.1
        ScottH

        IMO, absolutely there is someone for everyone.  Go to a concert and look at the couples.  Go to the mall and observe.  There’s a socially awkward geeky guy I used to work with who found love and had me scratching my head about why I wasn’t with someone (anecdotal, yes).  I frequently look around at average-looking guys and notice their wedding rings.  If they can partner up, so can I (and likely you too).

        I’m a pretty average guy and I’ve had decent luck in OLD.  The women who pass me up are usually looking for the CEO type, as far as I can tell.  Good luck to them.  I want a nice down to earth realistic girl who is looking for the same (and at the 3 month mark, it looks like I might have found her-  she is so sweet that she turns water into wine).

        I think if you follow Evan’s advice, subscribe to many dating sites **AND** join many meetup groups that cater to singles, your efforts will eventually pay off.  I know it gets discouraging when any effort doesn’t get rewarded but you need to persist.  I remember going to meetups and coming home empty handed and getting discouraged but I’ve had TONS of dates from OLD and meetups, TONS in the 4 years since my divorce and many of them were quality women.  Get out there, be positive and realistic.  That’s the best you can do.  You will eventually find the needle in the haystack.  And, BTW, read the book ATTACHED.  great book.

        1. markgil

          thanks for the advice and suggestions. conrgats too-it’s great to hear you have found someone yourself.  i think it is important to accept though that for some of us the best we can do is not enough and may never be. as with many men who are not extremely attractive (or even just good looking) my OLD experience has been horrific and i have pretty much given up on it completely.  i do go to meetups but these have been a big zero also.  it is certainly very difficult to say the least be postive and confident after being shot down countless times without any inkling of success.

      2. 3.2.2
        Clare

        Markgil,

         

        Whilst I have compassion on the sadness that comes through in your posts, I have to admit I don’t understand people who complain about a situation, and are not willing to accept any actions/suggestions/change of perspective which could change the situation for the better. What exactly are you hoping to achieve? If you are convinced that your ONLY recourse is to be with someone who sets your teeth on edge or be alone, why not just do that?

         

        Secondly, I am someone who would be considered in the speak of this blog relatively high “sexual market value”. I’m a youngish woman, very attractive, great shape, intelligent, independent, no kids, good girlfriend material too because I’ve invested in developing feminine, easygoing qualities in myself. Candidly, I have a lot of options and many men to choose from whom I could date. My current boyfriend, whom I absolutely adore, is 5″ 7/5″ 8. I don’t even notice his height when we’re together because of the wonderful, easy, loving relationship we have. He has integrity, passion and great masculine qualities in abundance and he makes me feel very safe. I feel lucky. He is good looking but not a movie star in looks.

         

        It sounds like a cliche but his loveable personality and how strong he is as a person is infinitely attractive to me. He has such a positive outlook on life and is absolutely sure of who he is and where he’s going. And he’s totally wonderful towards me because we are equally invested in the relationship. He would never write posts like the ones you have just written because he doesn’t have a chip on his shoulder. He knows that to have the best kind of woman you need to be the best kind of man.

      3. 3.2.3
        Stacy2

        At 5’7” your height is not your problem, and though i don’t know what you look like, i can tell that very few men are so unattractive that you can’t “dress them up” to the point where they are totally doable.

        Perhaps you just need a radical makeover, join a gym and workout (nothing is a bigger turn off to me personally than a guy with a “soft” body with belly fat and love handles hanging over his belt, ouch), do some athletic activities, get a good stylist to find a haircut that suits you, get some stylish clothes. Lose your glasses if you wear them or find a stylish frame, etc. For guys its really not that difficult. It will increase your confidence level too.

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          Along with the gym and the stylist, Markgil should go to the dentist and go see a doctor.

          Poor dental hygiene is a huge turnoff–and entirely under a person’s control.  Same thing with neglecting your health.  High blood pressure and high blood sugar levels (pre-diabetes, diabetes) will sap your energy and give your skin an ashen hue.

          A little self care can go a long way!

  4. 4
    Jenn

    I agree with the majority of points made in this video except one: that women always get hundreds of emails. Not all of us do, so of course that is a big generalization. I’m a fairly attractive woman in my mid-thirties. Even when I first started online dating a few years ago, aside from the initial first month of posting profiles, I have not gotten hundreds of emails, or even dozens. When I was actively on multiple sites I only got a handful each week, if I was lucky. And most of those were from men I’d never date in a million years. It didn’t seem to matter how often I changed my pictures, or whether I posted a profile using the Finding the One Online program, or one with only five lines. My response rate did not change.

  5. 5
    Karl S

    Chin up, lads. I’m 6’3 with a toned, slender build, but my failure rate was huge. On Okcupid – my most successful site, I’d average a response rate of 1/20 sent messages. My average date per contact was between 1/50 and 1/100. One month I messaged 250 women without getting a single date.  These were all polite, handcrafted messages, always mentioning something in their profile that piqued my interest and also a question to help springboard  a conversation. These women were also not merely the top 10% in looks. Other websites like Plenty of Fish are pure garbage.  Nobody responds ever.

    I’m not saying my height doesn’t have its advantages and there are probably some women who only responded because I’m tall, but it’s no cake-walk either and I’d wager an althletic physique does more for one’s dating potential than *just* being tall.

    I think tenacity pays off if you remain hopeful.  Online dating has allowed me to have far more experiences with sex,  dating and relationships than I otherwise would have.

     

    1. 5.1
      JB

      “I’d average a response rate of 1/20 sent messages. My average date per contact was between 1/50 and 1/100.”

      Ironically Karl and because I have a bit of OCD (and have kept track of numbers over the last 10 or so years) mine are similar at 52 yrs. old….lol They were actually a bit worse until I grew 2 inches to 5’11”, got that “big raise” at work to 100K….wink wink nudge nudge, and got my Bachelor’s degree. On Match at least I get responses and “meet & greets” occasionally (average M&G’s 10-25 per year). On POF which I’ve seen many of the women on there for many years. I rarely if ever get a response with the exact same profile I have on Match. The again on POF there’s hardly any quality women to email anyway.

       

      1. 5.1.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Respectfully, guys, those numbers are terrible. I don’t want to place the full blame on you, but I was 5’10” and didn’t list my income, and I had to have 40-50% rate on my first emails. So I would write to 2-3 women, 1-2 would respond, and I’d be in business. If that’s the way your numbers look, you need not just to lie in your profile, but a better profile and a better approach to emailing women. People who think online dating sucks usually think it’s a “numbers game” but mostly because they write crappy profiles and emails to only the most beautiful women, only to end up with a 5% response rate.

        1. markgil

          perhaps not Evan-but as an average height male with a great set of hair (both of which are extremely valued by the vast majority of women), just as i will never know what it’s like to live as a black male in this society, you will never really know what it is like in the dating world for men who are not fortunate enough to have either of these qualities.

        2. Bill

          Have you ever thought about offering a service where you peruse guys’ profile and outgoing messages and tell them what they’re doing wrong?

          I ask because even after availing myself of a few such services offered by women my response rate still sits at 6% or less.

      2. 5.1.2
        JB

        Now Evan, you know I’ve been on this blog since you started it and been online dating for 18 yrs. Do you really think my profile sucks or I don’t know how to write a first email? The truth is you didn’t do it in your 50’s which is a whole different game you did it in your 20’s-30’s. To be honest I don’t know about Karl but I’m not as good looking as you are and yes the first thing a woman looks at is the “headshot”. Guys can debate over height, income/job title, well written profile all day long. Headshot = facial symmetry, hair, nose, ears, and of course smile/teeth.

        My head is what it is….lol I’m absolutely positive if my profile got “e-cyranoised” I’d probably get a few more responses but not a massive amount more. Believe me I’m all for everyone having a “well written profile” as I’ve read about a trillion women’s profiles with 3 or less sentences and 5 selfies as have most women reading men’s which are worse! The numbers are what they are, as my height/income/education increased my response and meet & greet rate doubled. I only wish I had done it in 1998 on Web Personals before jpegs were even around. 🙂 Most men can only dream of 10-25 meet and greets a year you know that. I’m not sure of the number but I remember reading somewhere that about 80% of all men never get a response let alone meet someone and most quit after 2 months because of those numbers. I’m doing above average for an average looking man is all I’m saying.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          JB,

          You’re right that I didn’t date online in my 50’s. You’re right that I have no idea how attractive you are. You’re right that lying will increase how many people respond to you, but, well, that means you’re lying.

          Where you’re not (necessarily) right is this: I have no idea that your profile or email technique is any good. Lots of people read this and never buy my products. So unless you’ve done e-Cyrano and purchased Finding the One Online, I’m skeptical that your online dating material is as good as you think it is. Remember, EVERYONE thinks he/she does a good job – no one puts up a profile and says, “yeah, that sucks!”

          Finally, the fact that 80% of all men never get a response is not true, statistically speaking. Online dating wouldn’t survive if it was only 20% of people who used it (presumably the “top” 20%). Trust me: millions of average and unattractive people find each other online, too. Also, the fact that most men quit says more about those men (and their inability to write profiles, craft emails, understand women, and target appropriate prospects) than it does online dating itself.

        2. Caroline

          Hi JB-I had a personal question for you?  If you’ve dated 18 years online-how old when you started? In your thirties? Or did you start in your 50s and are now 68plus?

          Just curious-you surely have tenacity or something positive happens out of it?

          And for the record-I felt quite invisible online once I got close to 50 myself 🙂

      3. 5.1.3
        JB

        how old when you started?”

        Caroline, if I can remember it was around 1997-8ish when I first came on the internet. I was 37 or 38. I’m 55 now. I had already been doing “newspaper/magazine snail mail personals in my area which was very tedious because you had to mail people actual photo’s…lol  but I still met quite a few women. You had to keep that sort of thing on the “down low” back then…..lol Naturally when I got my first Compaq Presario with dial-up internet the first thing I searched was “personals”. Even then there were no pics in profiles just words and an email address to write to. Then if you could “attach” a photo in an email you had to hope that someone could “open” it and view it. It was the wild west back then.

        I remember Web Personals,  Lycos, AOL personals and early FriendFinder were all around as was Matchmaker and an early version of Match.  So yes over the 18 yrs (and I was 100% honest in my profile the first 13 or so) I’ve met quite a few women, had a few relationships where yes I “took my profile down” for a bit but right now I’m single so I still play because I love the game. Do I have enough stories for an incredible book? Absolutely! Will I do one? Absolutely not with my name on it….lol

        For the record, I love this blog and Evan. I totally agree with 99.9% of everything he says and teaches you guys. I know he’s the best there is. I just give a little different perspective that someone may learn from as well that’s all. Knowledge is power.

        1. Caroline

          JB-that was so kind of you to share! And interesting to boot. You probably could write a book. Even since I didn’t meet my guy online; I’m very grateful for the experience of daring online. I learned alot-some I’d rather forget about. Thank you for your perspective.

    2. 5.2
      Caroline

      Karl-I always appreciate your thoughtful remarks. Can you maybe see the possibility that if you wrote 250 emails in a month that a great percentage may have not been that well crafted to portray a sincere interest? IMHO true interest and sincerity usually come through. I’m just not too certain you were genuinely interested in 250 women over just a month period.

      1. 5.2.1
        Karl S

        Karl-I always appreciate your thoughtful remarks.

        Don’t get me confused with Karl R. He’s the thoughtful one. 😛

        I’m just not too certain you were genuinely interested in 250 women over just a month period.

        Oh, there was definitely an element of me going “Hmm, this is a dry month. I wonder just HOW dry.” And pushing forward with increased stubbornness, haha.

        But I’ve also found the idea of “sincerity” online to be a bit irrelevant. You can write to a select few women who are a 99% match according to Okcupid and who seem to share all your tastes, your views and values, but it will have absolutely no bearing on whether they reply. They might like what you’ve written, but they don’t like your photo, etc.

        So maybe you look further and find some profiles who you share a fair amount in common with, but not quite as much. Same deal. Is there a point at which one becomes insincere in their messages by expanding out further and further from their initial choices? Is it 10? 20? 50? A woman receiving a message doesn’t know where she sits along that line. All she sees in one more message in her inbox. I never wrote to somebody if I couldn’t think of something to ask them based on what they put in their profile though.

        By the same token, is a women being insincere if she goes on a date or responds to a guy she finds ‘so-so’, but is willing to be surprised by his character and let something grow? I like to let myself be open to being surprised too, so I would message women I wouldn’t normally pick as an ideal choice, just to see.

        1. Caroline

          Karl-i believe it should be quite clear to you what I meant. 250 emails in a month would send a distinct message to most that you were thoughtlessly sending out copious amounts in the hopes that by the mere number someone might answer.

        2. Kyra

          “But I’ve also found the idea of “sincerity” online to be a bit irrelevant. You can write to a select few women who are a 99% match according to Okcupid and who seem to share all your tastes, your views and values, but it will have absolutely no bearing on whether they reply. They might like what you’ve written, but they don’t like your photo, etc.”

          A while back (when I was still doing OLD) I received nothing but one line messages that were either copy/pasted, included bad spelling or were generic. They mentioned nothing of shared interests or things I placed in my profile as important to me.

          I received a message from a man that zero’d in on the two things that very much mattered to, interested and excited me in life. We shared two days of fantastic messages discussing those shared interests. He was six year younger than my age preference, different than any ethnicity I’d ever dated, far from the attractive level that most attracts me and over an hour away distance wise. We moved to email and then to phone.  I was more excited to meet him than any man I’d met online.

          Sadly, he was only seeking casual FWB sex situation, so I went no further.

          Never underestimate the results a sincere message that firmly targets the heart of a woman (and the profile you study inside and out, up, down and all over if need be) can bring you.

    3. 5.3
      Bill

      Ha – I’d pay for a date response of 1/50 or 1/100.

      I’m lucky if I get a response to 1 out of 100, and even then the responses are usually a “I don’t think we’re a match – good luck with your search!”

      I honestly don’t know if I’m ever going to find more than the coffee date OLD, let alone a relationship or a marriage, but I’m gradually learning to accept that.

      My (married) female friends ask why I haven’t been snapped up yet; then I ask them to introduce me to their single friends and I hear… crickets. So that’s my answer.

      Keep in mind I’m reasonably attractive, have an awesome career and fit many of the checkmarks women ask for in their profiles, yet I’m told I’m not a match for them.

      Don’t misunderstand, I wouldn’t want a woman to date me just because I do meet her checklist; if she’s not attracted, she’s not attracted.

      I do admit I could focus group the issue and find out why, though.

  6. 6
    Speed

    @Markgil and MGM531
    A substantial percentage of relationships and marriages now start online, and that percentage is growing fast. Yet, by definition only a tiny percentage of men (~2%) are “total package guys,” with looks, charm, money, etc. Even if they wanted to, this tiny percentage of men could not be responsible for all the relationships and dating online. Even if they dated around the clock, these Ultra Alphas simply could not meet the female demand.
    That implies that the vast majority of women are “settling” for guys who are not Tom Brady or Brad Pitt.  They’re not waiting around to be messaged by Matt Damon or something. This “rational” female market the “first cut” target market for us Average Joes, and it’s huge.
    I’ve done a ton of online dating (frankly, too much, I think, which is one reason I come to this site—to learn), and I’m fundamentally average in nearly every way.
    What I’ve learned from this site and a couple of others is to message women who show at least some online interest: return-visit my profile, favorite me, etc. I don’t do much cold calling (messaging women who haven’t visited or return-visited my profile). I’ve found the cold-calling rejection rate to be astronomical, and even when they do respond or go out on a date, it usually doesn’t lead to anything but wasted time. If she shows at least some online interest, the rejection rate is far lower, I’ve found.
    To be honest, I really think that the guys who claim that they are getting absolutely NO dates online are those who are messaging the absolute hottest women online. Those women are absolutely deluged with messages, so unless you’re Prince Harry, you have no chance. That’s the reality. But instead of accepting this reality these “complainers” (when they’re not consuming Japanese Anime or adult films) rush to Red Pill or MGTOW sites to complain about how they can’t attract Kate Upton—and why won’t she ask me out, pay for the date, and sleep with me at the end of it? It’s not fair!
    Like I wrote before, little people men, disabled men, ex-cons, broke men, all types find partners.  In the end, in my opinion and experience, success in online dating is tied to one’s self-awareness and social awareness, sense of realism and maturity level—not theories about how the world “should be” or its “unfairness” to certain people. This is maybe the biggest benefit of this site—not just a dating lesson but a life lesson.

     

    1. 6.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      “A substantial percentage of relationships and marriages now start online, and that percentage is growing fast. Yet, by definition only a tiny percentage of men (~2%) are “total package guys,” with looks, charm, money, etc. Even if they wanted to, this tiny percentage of men could not be responsible for all the relationships and dating online. Even if they dated around the clock, these Ultra Alphas simply could not meet the female demand.” Very well said. Appreciate your dose of reality.

    2. 6.2
      mgm531

      “To be honest, I really think that the guys who claim that they are getting absolutely NO dates online are those who are messaging the absolute hottest women online.”

      First, can we please dispose of this myth once and for all?  It is simply not true.  Most men don’t just message the ‘hottest women’ and instead reach out to a wide variety women.  Still the same results.

      Second, OLD can and does work for some people, perhaps a lot, but for many it does not.  For me personally my goal is not to rant and rave on how OLD sucks and doesn’t work and cry in my beer.  My goal is to determine what works for ME and channel my time and effort on that method.  I tried this for OLD and it just didn’t work for me.  So instead of endlessly rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, so to speak, just to get the same results I want to figure out something that gets better results for me.  But with so much emphasis on OLD that is difficult to do.  OLD is being presented by so many people as the answer to the dating problem that people loose site of the fact that it may not be the best fit for everyone.

      But I understand why this is the case because so much of OLD has a ‘plug-and-play’ aspect to it.  It’s easy to give advice on OLD without delving into the messy nuances of real world dating.  Not getting the response you want?  Well then write a snazzy profile!  Can’t get the attention you want?  Well then get a great picture to post!  See, it’s simple!

      But at the end of the day when all the endless versions of profiles have been written for the umpteenth time and coutless different pictures have been posted and the results are the same you have to decide if this OLD thing is really worth your time and effort.  Or more to the point could you focus your time and effort on something that gets better results.

      1. 6.2.1
        @mgm531

        I feel your pain mgm531 WRT OLD but have concluded that attempting to discuss the possibility that OLD doesn’t work for everyone and what viable alternatives there are for someone who wants to go a different way goes over like a lead ballon here. You’ll get a lot of overly enthusiastic defenders of OLD (many of whom will ironically admit that they’re single) who are more than happy to tell you the many ways in which you’re the problem. I doubt I’m talking about anything you haven’t already seen.

        I’m glad OLD works for some but silencing people who find its just not for them is over the top as far as I’m concerned and little suspicious.

        PS this is the part where someone chimes in with the statistic that 1 in 3 marriages start with an online date. Which means 2 in 3 (the majority) don’t. So….

        This is not a swipe at OLD sites anymore than saying most people won’t meet their soulmate at a bar is a swipe at bars.

  7. 7
    Adrian

    Hmmm…

    I think once a few years ago in a article for some magazine or maybe it was on this site,

     

    Evan stated that he had a male client who he coached that went from a rare reply here and there online a month before hiring Evan, to about a few a week after hiring Evan; for a man online dating, a few emails a week is rockstar status!

     

    So I do believe in the power of what Evan is saying from a male perspective that, with a good profile and having someone who is good at online dating there guiding you-though it is rare for him to be hired by us men- online dating is one of the best resources for dating.

     

    I wonder if the woman from Threedayrule, would honestly tell us their success rate for male clients? I mean, at least with online dating the number of possible women I could contact is almost endless, but with a matchmaker,

     

    doesn’t it all depend on who they already have in their database. Unless it is a very large and popular company, the number of potential people they can match a client up with has to be limited.

     

    At least with Evan, if I don’t get any results I will know it was not because of my lack of effort, or it was precisely because of my lack of effort. Evan actually showed us what he does with Marie a few post back and there was another woman a few years before Marie (she didn’t have a video, just a journal), but I can not remember her name. Both times, Evan allowed us to see the process of hiring him up close but with the ThreeDayRule...

     

    I don’t know, it just seems too hands-off for me for the amount of money I’m sure we will have to pay. But then again, that style of dating seems to work for E-harmany, and Patti Singer the million dollar matchmaker, so there must me something to it.

     

    I wish Kate from ThreeDayRule would have explained more about what they do. I looked on their website and it seems they have a lot of singles events (but they don’t explain how they match you up or what they do besides singles events), I have seen a few examples of various generic singles events on YouTube and it never looks like it is a good atmosphere to really chat with someone, it seemed more like a club, bar, or large party scene (but maybe I am bias, because I don’t like night clubbing, going to parties, or hanging out at the bar).

     

    She (Kate in the video) said they go out and find you someone, how? I loved what she said about offering you more than just online dating, but how? I love the thought of being introduced to someone whom the matchmaker thinks is a good fit for me, but where do you find these people?

     

    Finally, on the ThreeDayRule website, if you are willing to pay for the 6 month package, they promise you at least 6 matches, but on Evan’s one-on-one coaching page, he does not promise you anything except to work with you and help you become a better dater… I know it sounds weird but I prefer Evan’s non-promise better, it seems more realistic.

     

    Better to try as hard as I can for a few months and “see” where and how I failed with Evan (even if I don’t end up with someone), than for me to have 6 people just thrown at me to make sure a quota is reached (I am in NO way saying this is what they do at ThreeDayRule). The opposite is also true, I would rather meet 16 women in 6 or how many months with Evan by working on it everyday, than to be guaranteed “only” 6 matches/dates in 6 months by letting the matchmaker do all the work.

     

    I only write this because she and Evan seem to disagree on online dating, she says her service offers more than just online dating like Evan, But understand I am not attacking her, I just would like to see how the people at ThreeDayRule back up this claims.

  8. 8
    Omg

    Dude your planted comments are starting to become really obvious.

    1. 8.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I let this stupidity through just to knock it down. There have been 82,144 comments approved on this blog. Every one that I wrote comes from my name. Every other comment is from a stranger somewhere around the world who wants to contribute to the dialogue.

  9. 9
    Speed

    @Markgil and MGM531,
    You guys claim to be contacting “all types of women,” which likely means “all types of blondes, brunettes and redheads who just happen to be young, beautiful and perfect 10s.” Because that’s what you’re attracted to. Being a complete Average Joe myself, it’s very difficult for me to believe that an Average Joe could contact many Plain Janes, and but get few to no responses. Statistically, that just doesn’t hold.
    As women get older, I’ve found that they get much more attuned to a man’s character and personality. Of course, money, education and looks definitely help, but much more importantly—especially for the long term—things like steadiness of purpose, resilience, ambitiousness, decisiveness, strength, etc. The classic “manly” traits, I guess.
    Frankly, you guys on this thread don’t come off that way. At least to me, you come off as whiners, angry that the OLD world isn’t giving you what you want (though no fault of your own, of course!), and that you are perfectly justified in quitting it. By implication, you seem to want the readers and commenters to agree (instead of “silence you,” whatever that means), pat you on the back, thank you for your wisdom, and then head off to our respective basements for the comfort of Netflix, and away from the bad, bad OLD. Those who don’t’ agree with you are “suspicious,” possibly part of some global cabal to keep men away from “going a different way” which is code for the glorious Red Pill/MGTOW movement—which mainly results in keyboard warrior fantasists  living alone, drinking beer, eating Cheetos and watching adult films. Even Channing Tatum wouldn’t be attractive if he had a personality like that.

    Again, to recap:
    1.       Statistically, a large and growing percentage of relationships start online
    2.       Only a tiny percentage of this dating could possibly involve  Super Alpha guys, since they are by definition maybe 2% of the male population
    3.       That means that most online dating involves Average Joes
    4.       That also means that Average Joes have a high potential for success online, as long as they are not chasing swimsuit models
    5.       My technique (learned from this and other sites): Chase the women show some interest in you (visit or return-visit your profile, favorite you, etc.). Cold-calling has a very low response rate.
    6.       Stay positive: it’s attractive to women and a good thing in and of itself

     
    As the Romans said, “Deeds, not words.” Otherwise, quit and stay frustrated in your basements. Just don’t’ expect men with normal biological and emotional needs to join you.

    1. 9.1
      @speed

      @speed – well that was a rather defensive reply. Funny how you didn’t address it to me but felt the need to call out things I said in response to mgm531. I can assure you I am neither a red pill nor a MGTOW. I just know a sales job when I see one.

      1. 9.1.1
        Kyra

        While that response was a bit on the angry side, I do have to agree to their initial sentiment. I’ve noted a great percentage of men tend to have very strict preferences and they very usually do not tend to work in their favor.

        I’m acquaintances with a noted POA. He once shared a discussion he had with several guys about the very frequently mentioned “preference” and what “attracted” them.

        He was very blunt (most POAs) are and told them flat out: aim for Black women since they get very little attention and respond greater than any woman out there, aim for single moms since many single men seek women with little familial responsibility and aim ten years in age up instead of down and your competition will greatly diminish.

        While the POAs style of communication may be harsh, I tend to agree. With time and connection your preferences will change and your idea of what is attractive and desirable to you will grow and work in your benefit. You’ll increase your response rate and have more opportunities to date.

  10. 10
    Jenn

    I’m curious about something: for you guys who aren’t having any luck getting replies, you say you’re giving each woman, no matter if she’s average-looking or totally gorgeous, an individual response.

    I did a couple of experiments with my profiles a few years ago, in which I swapped my real photos for fake pictures of gorgeous model-types. My response rate skyrocketed, and the emails I got were definitely much more enthusiastic, long-winded and individually crafted just for me. It’s amazing when I consider the difference between that and my real photo, which definitely got more generic replies even though I had a profile that was written to Evan’s exact specifications and a professionally-done picture.

    I’m curious, if you guys are really being honest, did you put the exact same enthusiasm into emailing average women as you would the more conventional hotties?

    1. 10.1
      Karl S

      From my own experience, I would of course be more excited by an attractive woman, but I would still only be able to write to them based on how much I could get from their profile content.

      I’d write much more for a woman I was fairly attracted to but had a lot of common ground to work with compared to someone really attractive with less I could potentially ask/discuss.

      There are a lot of very attractive women online who I didn’t seem to have anything to talk about with, so I didn’t message them at all. Anyone who’s passions revolved around clubbing, drinking and bumming around at the beach, I would pass on. Same if they’re were solely interested in sport/outdoorsy things/the gym. They probably wanted a guy like them. If they mentioned a hint of academia or bookishness, an interest in film or culture and art – then I’d have good go.

      1. 10.1.1
        Karl S

        Oh God, my kingdom for an edit button. I always fail to spot grammatical errors and spelling mistakes before posting these things through. 🙁

  11. 11
    JD

    Ok, enough with the claims that OLD can work for you if you “do it right.” I’ve been trying it for years on the side, my response rate is maybe 1/100, and my date rate is a complete zero. Many different profile styles and message styles following all sorts of different types of advice – these things do not matter at all. Women are simply far dumber online than they are in person. They do not evaluate at all like they do in person; they look only at the pictures.

    In person, I can engage with anyone. I get friend-zoned very often, even when very aggressive up front, because I am interesting, engaging, active, confident, successful, and… not good-looking. I also have some success, but I haven’t been able to find the right woman in-person. The important thing is, I am FAR more successful at getting into opportunities in-person than online, no matter what I say online.

    Now, everyone here says that anyone with my story must be aiming to high, right? Well, let’s look at that. I’m not posting a photo of myself, but I managed to find a guy who looks a lot like me: https://musclesnmotion.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/img_01441.jpg. Take that guy, add a six-figure career, a large house, a top 1% intellect, a lot of activity and social life, a nice charity resume, and some serious old-school chivalry. Now have him message girls about like this: http://i58.tinypic.com/2w73k77.jpg.

    If I met that girl in person, I would get her number. Friend-zoning is still a strong possibility, but there would be engagement. Online? No way in hell she responds no matter what I write.

    That’s the reality.

    Oh, and for the record, plenty of guys with my face and far worse bodies are married to better-looking women. We know it’s true, we know it’s possible, but it’ll be a cold day in hell when it ever happens through OLD.

    1. 11.1
      Karl S

      Well JD, maybe you shouldn’t worry about online dating and just stick to using that charm of yours.  The Internet has been a boone for me precisely because I lack charm and charisma. I can’t ‘pull the ladies’ like some of my collegues. But then I’m a bit more introverted, with different interests to most of my peers who like music festivals and clubbing and drinking and sport. Meeting strangers from the Internet has allowed me to be far more direct and take risks. Rejection hurts less. It’s easier to try my luck in the context of a deliberate date rather than a random encounter with someone.  Most of my girlfriends, flings,  one night stands and so on have been people I met online.

      So stick to your strengths.  Maybe try speed dating.

    2. 11.2
      SMC

      “Women are simply far dumber online than they are in person. They do not evaluate at all like they do in person; they look only at the pictures.”

      Well, alrighty then.  Any valid points you might have made after that were left at the door, so to speak.

    3. 11.3
      Karl R

      JD:

      There’s no doubt that online dating works much better for some people than others. If someone “looks good on paper”, but doesn’t quite meet that same level in person (for whatever reason), they will do better at online dating.  If someone has a couple obvious strikes against them in online dating, but is confident, outgoing and charming in person, they will clearly do better in person.

      That’s why I primarily relied on meeting women in person.  I knew which environments gave me an advantage.

       

      JD said:

      “If I met that girl in person, I would get her number.”

       

      I get that.  I’m not exactly winning beauty contests either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag9yopUzeDU

      However, on a couple occasions I’ve gotten phone numbers and first dates with women (shortly after meeting them) who were more attractive than the woman you used as an example … because I approached them in person.

      But regarding any “aiming too high” comments you may receive: It has been my personal experience that my most attractive dates often ended up having very little in common with me.

       

      In one of the two examples I mentioned, I went to a diner to grab breakfast one Saturday morning … right after doing back-to-back yoga classes.  Despite wearing my yoga clothes and being soaked in sweat, I ended up getting the phone number (and later, two dates) from the exotic-looking Argentinian woman sitting next to me.

      But as far as compatibility, I had gotten up early on Saturday morning to do two yoga classes.  As best as I could infer, this 20-something woman was still wearing the clothes she had gone clubbing in on Friday night.  I was about 12 years past that kind of lifestyle.  (I was also (probably) at least 12 years older than her.)

      The other woman was someone I met while out listening to (and dancing to) some live music.  She ended up being the least intelligent woman that I have ever dated.  If I recall correctly, we exhausted our conversation possibilities en route to the date.

       

      If you’re limiting your dating to women who are as attractive as the woman you used as an example, then you may be ruling out the women you would have the best relationships with.  If you’re sometimes hitting on women who are that attractive (because you can get dates with them), then go have fun.

       

      JD said:

      “Women are simply far dumber online than they are in person. They do not evaluate at all like they do in person”

       

      The same is true of men.  Both Evan and I openly admit that our wives would have been filtered out by our search criteria.  We never would have even gotten to the point of looking at our wives’ pictures … if we had been meeting them through online dating.

      It’s easy to throw blame at other people’s online (or offline) dating behavior.  Your criticisms are true for a significant portion of online daters.  But they’re also completely useless.  It’s a lot more insightful and useful to recognize how your own behavior gets in the way of dating.

      1. 11.3.1
        JD

        Karl,

        I HAVE recognized that online dating is worthless for me. I am not posting here to vent; I am posting here to correct bad information that will people to make assumptions that will lead to disappointment. The suggestion here is that you can “do it right”, and that is not true. If you don’t have looks, OLD cannot work for you.

        Which is too bad for those of us who can’t find what we want meeting in person.

  12. 12
    Shea

    The only time I’ve ever used OLD, I wound up marrying the guy and had the worst experience of my life EVER.  5 wasted years.  Wish I had discovered Evan’s site back then, oh do I ever.  It’s taken me months and months to stop living in the past (aka “regretting”) and get on with looking to the future.  I am currently seeing someone with whom I am very happy.  We are country dancers and he asked me to dance 10 months ago, we started dating a couple of months later, and so far so good; however, if things should happen where I find myself back in the dating pool (there has been no serious commitment from him yet, no rush from me, but sooner or later there’s going to need to be), I will make haste to purchase Evan’s material on building the best profile ever and get back to OLD (not eHarmony though!) to see what’s what.  From all the negativity that I’m reading here, one might think that a gal in her mid-50’s would have a dismal time, but honestly, I think I would enjoy the challenge.  I put myself together pretty well (almost always get shocked looks when I divulge my age), but I realize that I’m still that “average” gal – not hideous, not model material, just a nice-looking “in between.”  I see that a big focus is on what someone’s income is, and honestly, I don’t WANT to know what that is, mainly because I support myself just fine and don’t want or need to know any more up front than that a guy can support himself without help.  As for the guys out there who want the younger women, more power to them.  I wouldn’t be interested in them anyway.  Evan, I was intimidated by your blog and your comments at first, but after lurking for several weeks (and subscribing to Love U, thank you for that!), I’m gaining a much better understanding of how the male mind ticks which is helping my current relationship immensely (or at least how I’m perceiving it).  The male perspective, both yours and the mature commenters here, has been a goldmine of information.  Thank you!

  13. 13
    Just one women

    Okay, my opinion may be suspect, since I was on POF where there are no quality women and they certainly don’t ever respond, but I totally didn’t operate as some of you are claiming all women operate.    I have no idea how many of the guys I exchanged messages with were tall or wealthy ’cause I didn’t pay attention to that.  Although I am embarrassingly shallow on looks when it comes to the men I actually fall for, I didn’t even sort based on pictures ’cause people don’t IRL look that much like their stills.  The animated face is so different.  But I answered a large fraction of the messages that I got.  I didn’t answer the guys who wrote, “Hey, can I have your number?” – they spent no time on me and I spent no time on them.  And I didn’t answer (okay, with a couple exceptions) the guys who wrote to complain about how women never respond because ____ factor-he-has-no-control-over.  EVERYBODY else I responded to – at least scanned their profile and wrote back.  Often saying “thanks for contacting me, but…”  I responded ’cause it seemed like the polite thing to do.  Exhausting – that’s part of why I gave up on online dating so quickly, I suppose – but polite.

    Can’t help saying this about women responding to Matt Damon because we care primarily about looks.  I think there’s a reason why the people you think of who have women swooning over them are actors and there really isn’t anything comparable to Victoria’s Secret Angels for straight women:  it’s actually NOT just about looks.  Matt Damon is sexy in large part because we have seen him characters who were attractive.  He could look like Keith Richards (who is also apparently a sex symbol) and women would still find his Contagion character irresistably lustworthy.

  14. 14
    Karl S

    Kyra said:

    I received a message from a man that zero’d in on the two things that very much mattered to, interested and excited me in life. We shared two days of fantastic messages discussing those shared interests. He was six year younger than my age preference, different than any ethnicity I’d ever dated, far from the attractive level that most attracts me and over an hour away distance wise. We moved to email and then to phone.  I was more excited to meet him than any man I’d met online.

    Sadly, he was only seeking casual FWB sex situation, so I went no further.

    Never underestimate the results a sincere message that firmly targets the heart of a woman (and the profile you study inside and out, up, down and all over if need be) can bring you.

    Oh I’m certainly not advocating that people should send hundreds of quick messages per month. I should have clarified the “250 emails” was a bit of outlier behaviour for me and that I usually prefer to message people I have a lot in common with and who seem like a good match. My point was that it’s a guarantee of nothing.

    Your own example supports this. Your guy stood out among the pack and you shared some lovely back and forth online, but he didn’t get a date. I’ve also shared a lot of lovely back and forth online with high matching people without getting a date, for whatever reason. So I move down the line to the next person. One month I moved too far down that line (mostly out of stubbornness) just to see if anything would come of it. Of course, nothing did. In poker it’s known as “tilting” and that usually happens after a number of  “bad beats”, which is when you lose a hand that normally should have won.

    It would definitely have been a better use of my time to just write the month off after messaging a select few women with no dates and then wait till some new profile popped up that were high matching. But I think the original reason I mentioned the 250 example was to provide encouragement to the other male posters who were complaining about having no luck at all.

    Do adopt Evan’s advice, boys.

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