What is the Best Dating App and Online Dating Site?

One of the most common questions I've gotten in my fifteen years as a dating coach is just about the hardest to answer?

"What's the best dating app?" "What's the best dating site?" "Where are the highest quality men?"

Officially, I'm agnostic on the subject. I've said, publicly, that trying to find the "best" dating site is like trying to find the "best" gym. It's not so much about the place, but rather, how you USE the place that will determine your success.

It's not so much about the place, but rather, how you USE the place that will determine your success.

Unofficially, I put all my private clients on Match. It's a big, brand name with lots of people, a good user interface, and a paid clientele. I much prefer it to swipe-and-text dating apps specifically because it moves slower to ensure higher quality interactions.

Instant gratification is great - until you discover you're texting a dozen people, half of whom ghost you, and you haven't gone on a first date with a guy you liked in three months. I don't think dating apps or texting are evil; I just think that prioritizing speed and volume ends up depersonalizing the dating process even further.

I'd rather you go on one pre-screened date with a man you liked on the phone than to text five strangers into meeting you at Starbucks. But hey, that's a dating coach's opinion.

For a broader perspective, Reviews.com spent six weeks reviewing 68 online dating sites to find which algorithms actually work and which site was most likely to find compatible matches. They found their top picks by analyzing web-traffic data, consulting with matchmakers and online dating experts, along with evaluating their user bases, functionality and quality.

The results weren't terribly surprising but they do answer the question as to what the best dating sites and best dating apps are.

Now that you know the best dating sites, you should probably learn how to use them.

Best Matching Algorithm: OKCupid

Highest Quality Hellos: Tinder

Women Call the Shots: Bumble

Most Users Over 40: Match

Everything else, for the most part, you can skip.

Now that you know the best dating sites, you should probably learn how to use them.

Click here to attract the highest quality men on whichever dating site you use.

Join our conversation (84 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 1
    Gala

    I am curious what your take is on match recent “improvements”. I have recently taken myself off of it (because I started seeing someone who i met through friends but was gonna let my subscription lapse regardless out of sheer exasperation). They had “winks” and “likes” and “interested” and god knows what else other than a simple email for someone to express their interest. I was receiving a ton of those but almost no emails at the end of my subscription. Also, they now have those pre-filled emails with some really, really dumb openings like “hi, random question to get us started, what are you three favorite TV shows right now?” which I found extremely off putting and also never responded to. When I was on it several years ago it was a much better experience, it feels like match has really gone downhill

  2. 2
    Chance

    Why would a man use Bumble?  I would never judge or belittle a man who chose to use it, but it seems that it’s self-debasing for a man to attempt to engage with women on there considering how the concept (as I understand it) is designed.

    1. 2.1
      marika

      Is this really you saying this, Chance?

      The only way Bumble differs from any other app-based site is that women have to make the first move. I thought you’d be all for that!

      What’s the problem here? I’ve used Bumble and most of my more recent dates are from there. It’s great, you both communicate with people who are interested, men hear from women who want to contact them and there’s no chance of a man consistently messaging an uninterested woman.

      1. 2.1.1
        Chance

        Marika, yes, it’s me 🙂

        I’m just not a fan of a platform that has two sets of rules based on a person’s gender.  I suspect that most women would bristle at the idea of an online dating platform that only restricts their agency on it, while not restricting men’s agency (and for good reason).

        Now, here is where I will speculate since I’ve been off the market for much longer than Bumble has been in existence, but I have to wonder how much calling/planning/paying that North American women are actually doing on this site.  My guess is very little, and the men are still generally expected to initiate once a woman has allowed him to message her.  I invite other men to who have used the site to chime in if their experience differs, but if this is pretty much accurate, then I don’t think the site is as “empowering” to women as is often advertised.  It just makes the online dating experience more pleasant for women.

         

        We all get that men are expected to ask women out.  The downside for men is the risk of rejection.  The downside for women is the unwanted attention.  Bumble seems to be much better at solving the latter problem than the former as far as I can tell because – from a man’s standpoint – I don’t really see a woman not allowing you to message her as being any different than when you send a woman a wink and she doesn’t respond.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          “It just makes the online dating experience more pleasant for women.”

          But this is everything. Online dating is so unpleasant for so many women because of the jerks and pervs and riff-raff. Bumble allows women to encourage men to follow through and make an effort, which is exactly as it should be.

        2. Chance

          Evan, online dating can be unpleasant for everybody (for different reasons).  Although I can tell you that I used to ask my dates if they had any experiences like what you describe, and not a single one of them did.  Their biggest problem was simply unwanted attention.  It’s easier to sift through the emails of the men you actually have some interest in.  Bumble works to fix women’s problems, but not men’s, as far as I can tell.  It still allows women to be women, but it does not allow men to be men.  More power to them, but I wouldn’t ever use the site if I were single.
          Again, I’m confident that you and most women would bristle at the idea of an online dating platform that has two sets of rules based on gender if it restricted women in any way.

        3. Clare

          Chance,

          The tone of your posts often comes across as though you are unable to empathise with other people’s point of view or experience, and that you are all in it for what you can get for yourself. If that’s you… well, that’s your prerogative. Just saying.

           

          One of the most common complaints I hear from my guy friends who are dating is about women not texting them back, not wanting to meet up, and not showing enough reciprocal interest in them. I cannot imagine how many women they have to text on Tinder just to get a handful of responses. At least on Bumble, where the woman has put herself out there and messaged the guy first, she has already signified a basic level of effort and investment. Ipso facto, she is less likely to ghost.

          I’m kind of baffled by your response because I thought one of the main complaints men had about the dating process was that they had to do all the initiating and all the work. I thought you’d be all for an app which forces women to initiate to show they are interested. Balance out the scales a bit? I don’t see how this can do anything but benefit men.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Evan

          But this is everything. Online dating is so unpleasant for so many women because of the jerks and pervs and riff-raff. Bumble allows women to encourage men to follow through and make an effort, which is exactly as it should be.

          And online dating is not unpleasant for men?  I am by all measures a very successful online dater, but I still find the process to be wanting.  Women can be difficult as well.  I have lost count of the number of women that I have had to block, especially high masculine energy women who are used to getting what they want in other areas of their lives.  I am sorry ladies, but professional success and power does not carry over to dating.  What a woman does for a living and her level of professional success means very little to most men.

          As far as to Bumble, well, my experience with that site tells me that it is chock-full of high masculine energy women who are control freaks.  I will take Match over Bumble any day of the week.  Match is the most egalitarian online dating service, as there are no asymmetrical features.   Everyone is paying, so few are there just to have their egos stroked like they are the free sites like OKC and PoF, which, in my humble opinion, is the cesspool of online dating.  OKC and PoF are loaded with married women who are looking for the attention that they are not receiving at home.  These women tend to send unsolicited nude photos after a man shares his cell number or e-mail address.   I have received more unsolicited nude photos from married women on these two sites than all of the other sites combined.

    2. 2.2
      JB

      I take it Bumble is only a swipe/text app? No website? I’ll pass. Match works fine and the only women that see me are the ones I want to see me. Apps have ruined online dating.

  3. 3
    Shaukat

    Bumble allows women to encourage men to follow through and make an effort

    I actually don’t see how this is the case. It’s exactly like tinder except for the fact that the woman has to initiate first or the match disappears. Once she initiates the guy is free to send a dick pic or say something that’s inappropriate. You can’t gauge someone’s character by swiping right on a photo and maybe reading a short blurb about them (if they even have that).

    I don’t really see a woman not allowing you to message her as being any different than when you send a woman a wink and she doesn’t respond.

    Not necessarily. They still have to swipe right on your pic to match with you. Sometimes a woman will be so overwhelmed with matches that she may just forget to send a message before the time expires or she may just not log in for a couple says and lose the match. I’m not speculating here, I’ve spoken to a few female users of the app who said this happened in their case. This is the major flaw with the app.

    My own limited experience with it: Way better quality matches and users than tinder, plus if a woman does engage you on it you can be sure she’s interested in something. Nothing much came of it for me except a decent ONS, which I suppose I could count as a success, but I wasn’t even  really looking for that.

  4. 4
    Marika

    Yes, speaking as a female online dater and a regular Bumble user, Evan, that’s a big part of it.

    But also, Chance, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t complain that men are expected to do everything, then also have a problem with an app that forces women to make the first move.

    I don’t come from a country where gender roles in dating are so clearly defined. So it’s really no big deal for me to send a guy a message, to participate in picking a place to meet, in offering to pay, and following through when this offer is accepted. BUT, it’s much better for both parties if a man is not in a position to consistently message an uninterested woman. Chance, read through some of the comments made by women on previous posts of the abuse they have received from ignoring or saying no to a man’s approach online (can’t remember a specific post, but it comes up a LOT). I’ve had it happen to me. It’s no fun for anyone if the (generally speaking) more aggressive gender has an opportunity to berate a woman for her lack of interest. Bumble solves this problem. It also makes dating even just a tad more egalitarian.

    Maybe use it before you knock it..;)

    1. 4.1
      Chance

      “But also, Chance, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t complain that men are expected to do everything, then also have a problem with an app that forces women to make the first move.”

       

      Initiating online is one of the easiest things to do in the world.  Takes a few seconds (or less), and requires minimal effort and investment.  As it relates to the rest of your post, I last used eharmony before I paired up with my partner.  I believe that the design of that platform largely addresses the issues that you and Evan mention, and they accomplish istwithout marginalizing an entire gender.  All of my dates never had a bad experience on there.

       

      At any rate, more power to the Bumble folks for designing it and to anyone who uses it.  I just won’t be using it, and I don’t think I would ever be interested in a woman who thinks so lowly of men that she doesn’t believe they should be allowed to message women on their own volition, either.

       

      Shaukat – cheers.  Thanks for your response.  Good insights.

      1. 4.1.1
        Gala

        Chance:

        If I ever had to go back to online/apps I would only go on Bumble. First, as I said before, guys on Bumble are way hotter 🙂 Second, the “unwanted attention” which you brush aside as no big deal actually IS a big deal for women. As women, we deal with unwanted attention and advance every single day of our lives. It is exhausting and unpleasant, and to also have it in your inbox on top of everything else is more demoralizing than anything else. If in real life you can limit unwanted attention by choosing your environment and who you associate with, online its a freaking free for all. Any loser and a douchebag with a phone suddenly is emboldened to message “hello beautiful” to a woman who he knows he’d never even be in the same room, ever, in real life. For that reason, bumble rules.

        1. Buck25

          Gala, you think MEN never get that kind of “unwanted attention” from women?  You’re wrong. A man with an attractive profile  (and the better job I do, with mine, the worse this gets), gets a hell of a lot of unwanted female attention. Now, I might be an “undesirable” to you, but apparently not to quite a few 75-85 year old women on Match. I’m 69, and while I’m ok with dating women a year or two older than me, I have exactly ZERO interest in even talking to, much less dating, women in that age range, a fact clearly stated in my profile (and ignored by said women). I get a dozen or more of those a day, cluttering up MY inbox, and while I’m sure THAT doesn’t bother you, I hope you might understand that it most certainly feels just a tad “demoralizing and dehumanizing” to me. I suppose I should be grateful that at least, I don’t have to look at any..oh wait; yesterday, I received, along with one of these unsolicited messages, an unsolicited photo in…I’m not quite sure whether it was lingerie or a swimsuit (I couldn’t really tell, under the rolls of blubber, and didn’t give more than a glance; my eyeballs are still bleeding). I hate to complain, having heard about the dick pics and such you ladies put up with; but let’s just say that was something I could have done without, ok? Then, there are the charming ladies from the other side of my age range. Some are obvious gold diggers, or younger women with “daddy issues”, some are forty-something or fifty-something single moms, looking for someone to support their brood (my profile specifies NO KIDS). Most are outside my age range, albeit in the other direction. I realize you think I should be flattered by that; they ARE younger, after all;, but truth is, most of them are every bit as homely as their much older counterparts( not to mention their other “liabilities”).  I am underwhelmed.

          That said, I had thought this was a problem that both genders had to endure equally, one premise of online dating being that having a chance to message anyone, gives the other side the same chance to message you. Now, apparently, you want your problem solved, while men are supposed to “just grin and bear it”. I hope you can understand that I might be more sympathetic to your cause, were there a bit of empathy for my side of things. I’m not feeling that here. YAG points out in another post, that the reason for the perception that only desperate women initiate online contact with men, is that it’s largely true; women don’t reach out, unless they are reaching upway up. That’s been my experience as well. You may not believe this, but women (online) are very much equal opportunity offenders when it comes to hitting on those far outside their own, ah, level, just as they are with outright lying, deceptive photos, etc.-most of the same offenses you and many others here complain so bitterly about, when committed by men. Your gender, overall, are no more candidates for online dating sainthood than men are. I would make a remark about glass houses, and all that, but I doubt you care. It does strike me though, that you already had an option for dealing with your problem the same way I deal with mine-just block the offering parties; then again, I guess that isn’t enough for you; nooooo, have to create a site that gives you total control of the initiative; after all, “everyone knows” that women’s  online dating problems, (real or imagined) are the only ones that should matter, right?

        2. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          You think MEN never get that kind of “unwanted attention” from women?  You’re wrong.

          Try dealing with unwanted attention irl. I’m assuming men deal with that, too, but probably not to the same extent as women because men, as a general rule, initiate. Have you, at your place of employment, had to do the “dip and dodge” with a co-worker? You were pleasant but removed and were afraid even the slightest drop of the boundary they kept trying to push would result in that person backing you into a corner and asking you out?  You were dreading the awkwardness of it. You didn’t want to be mean and you had to work with this person and interact daily, but part of you resented being put in this position as you had never given the person any hint of interest? Plus, you were at work. It’s a place of business. You weren’t looking to date co-workers.

        3. Buck25

          Try dealing with unwanted attention irl. I’m assuming men deal with that too, but probably not to the same extent as women, because men as a rule initiate.

          Emily,

          Yes on both counts. We’ve had that conversation before, in other threads. You know what my views on the kind of workplace and street harassment of women you’re talking about are, and you know those views are NOT unsympathetic to women, by any means. However, THAT is NOT what we’re discussing here at the moment; this discussion is about unwanted attention online, which is another matter entirely, so please, don’t conflate the two. The one is often a real (or at least reasonably perceived) threat to women (it rarely, if ever, is to a man). The other is an annoyance in online dating, or as Gala calls it, “a freaking free for all” (I actually agree with her on that), but so what? It’s an annoyance affecting both genders, and created by both genders, one that has been tacitly accepted as the price of opportunity on both sides (or so I thought). Now it appears that some (or is it most?) of you ladies want a site where the rules are different, so as to solve your “problem” (while conveniently ignoring the fact that we men are subjected to  essentially the same thing from your side of the gender fence) Methinks that from the female perspective, it’s all about whose ox is being gored. To me (and apparently other men here) this looks like one more example of a female attitude that proclaims, rather stridently, “WE can do it, but YOU better not!”  It’s not particularly endearing to me, and I suspect, to most men, so you shouldn’t be surprised at our responses here. Incidentally, asking for empathy for your problems (which I have offered you before, on the real world stuff), while pretending men’s problems somehow don’t matter, feels just a bit selfish and self absorbed to me. Hardly egalitarian, at any rate.

        4. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          Incidentally, asking for empathy for your problems (which I have offered you before, on the real world stuff), while pretending men’s problems somehow don’t matter, feels just a bit selfish and self absorbed to me. Hardly egalitarian, at any rate.

          I wasn’t asking for empathy, just stating that, of the two genders, women probably, as a whole, get far more unwanted attention, both online and irl. And I’m not sure what men’s problems you’re talking about on this particular post. That you don’t like Bumble? Ok, don’t use it. That the women who contact you online don’t appeal to you? Yes, that would be disappointing, as it does for both genders if they are not given attention from prospects they find appealing. The story I wrote up is not what I would consider sexual harassment. It’s an essentially nice but socially awkward man who is going to force a woman to have a “come to Jesus” meeting because he is not picking up on the cues most other men would.

        5. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          I wasn’t asking for empathy, just stating that, of the two genders, women probably, as a whole, get far more unwanted attention, both online and irl.

          What Buck25 mentioned about unwanted attention from older women online is true.  Most of the hate mail I receive is sent by women who are older than my upper age bound, usually more than a few years older than my upper age bound.  Women who are just a few years above my upper age bound just ignore it.  I do not know where they learned that this practice is okay, but I never initiate contact with a woman when my age does not fall within her upper and lower age bounds.

          If you believe that women do not get vicious when they feel slighted online, then I need to starting posting a few of my unsolicited hate mail messages.  Like I said, I have had to block my fair share of women on dating sites.  Now, I just automatically block a woman who is reaching up.  The good thing about Match is that a woman is completely unaware that her messages are being sent to the bit bucket.  I also have a message filter that automatically filters women who are not within my age range.

          In the end, unwanted attention is the price that one pays for being online.  It is the cost of having access to a large pool of people.  In a perfect world, dating sites would enforce assortative mating rules; however, as other people has mentioned, subscriptions are sold on the premise that everyone is available to everyone.

    2. 4.2
      Chance

      Oh, and one last thing Marika:

       

      “It also makes dating even just a tad more egalitarian.”

       

      The design of Bumble (in relation to other dating sites), is patently less egalitarian.  It’s taking something where the rules used to be the same for both genders, and creating two sets of rules based on gender.  That is, decidedly, the opposite of egalitarian.

    3. 4.3
      Yet Another Guy

      @Marika

      It also makes dating even just a tad more egalitarian.

      Au Contraire!  A site with asymmetrical features is by definition non-egalitarian.  The Tinder model is egalitarian.

      1. 4.3.1
        Marika

        Whatever YAG and Chance.

        To each his own.

  5. 5
    Stacy

    Even though I have been off the market for a year and a half, I will be siding with Evan here. No site is really ‘best’. Depends on your personal ‘style’. For instance, I have heard people rave about eharmony but when I tried it, I hated it with a passion. The site sends you matches (which was like, once a day when I was on it), and everything moves so slow. It also takes forever to get to the point of knowing someone with all the levels…eek…Match was cool and had a more sophisticated bunch, but the number of fake profiles were overwhelming.  OkCupid is free so you get every type of person on there and much less sophistication (if that is what you are looking for)….never was on Plenty of Fish.  All in all, glad I am not doing it anymore because frankly, online dating was super exhausting and fickle.

  6. 6
    MilkyMae

    Match, Okcupid, Tinder, POf… are owned by Match Group.  Bumble was founded by former employees of Match.

    All apps have their pros and cons.  Bumble is kind of a no-brainer alternative.  Whitney Wolfe and Bumble(and all the co’s) know the stats and they have the data. It’s not a gimmick or a empower women project.  The people who have the most success are the men who get contacted and the women who reach out to men.  Bumble wants to carve out a niche.  The men with selfies who write/swipe tons of emails(“Hi, here’s my #”) and the women who wait for a non-goober man to write are the members who languish on dating apps and jump from one app to the next.  However, these members provide more revenues for Match Group.  I predict that Match will try to buy Bumble or start a competing service in the future.

    1. 6.1
      Gala

      However, these members provide more revenues for Match Group.

      You nailed it here. Match and other paid apps capitalize on people’s delusions. Men are paying because they believe there’s a possibility they stand a chance with women way out of their league if they message them “helloooo” on match. Women, I am sure, have similar delusions. It is a problem that is easy to fix – just make every member on the platform invisible to anybody who doesn’t meet their criteria. Super easy. Bu then too many people would discover that there’s nobody left to date, given their criteria and what they have to offer, and they’d stop paying. That would not be good for business.

      1. 6.1.1
        Nissa

        Hey, no mater what, I’m a happy camper. I bought Match Group at $16. *insert evil laugh*.

    2. 6.2
      Yet Another Guy

      @MilkyMae

      I am curious as to what type of man actually likes the Bumble model?   It sure is not the take-charge type of guy that many women seek.  That is where the Bumble model is flawed.  Bumble has the highest dropout rate for men of any dating app/site.  The men who stay tend to be on the passive side of the equation.

      1. 6.2.1
        Gala

        I am curious as to what type of man actually likes the Bumble model? … The men who stay tend to be on the passive side of the equation.

        The type that is considered desirable by a lot of women and gets a lot of matches there, would be my guess. And, the men who stay are the ones who are satisfied with the number and quality of the matches they get. The men who leave are the ones who are in denial about the league they’re in. Also i think bumble skews younger so I wouldn’t expect men in their late 40-ies and older to be super successful there..

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @Gala

          My guess would be that these men tend to be on the beta side of the equation.  I had no problem finding women near my age on Bumble, nor did I have a problem generating interest.  I passed on nine out of ten of the women who opened a conversation.  I found the women on Bumble to have much higher levels of masculine energy than the women on other dating sites.  Most were just flat-out control freaks.  Bumble apparently appeals to this type of woman.  While I am flexible, I am a masculine man.  Life is just too darn short to fight for the role of man in a relationship.

        2. Shaukat

          The men who leave are the ones who are in denial about the league they’re in.

          I’m not trying to turn this into a gender war thread, but let’s be honest, if the swiping culture has warped anyone’s perception of leagues its done that for women. In fact, there was an article in the Huff Post stating that the bottom 30% (I think) of women in terms of looks would get matched with the top 20% of men on tinder. This is largely due the strategic game theory tactic where men just swipe right on everything to maximize their results, but we shouldn’t overlook the significance of such price inflation. Women who don’t bother to take care of their appearance and who likely get scant to no attention irl can create a profile and get matched with an 8/10 guy, and sometimes even sleep with him. I remember when tinder first came out I got close to a 100 matches, and many were quality. Last time I used it I got maybe five, and they were meh.

          And yes, there are too many men who put in zero effort to improve their appearance and who think online dating will be a quick fix as well, but the difference is that those average chumps get no attention.

          @YAG

          Most were just flat-out control freaks.  Bumble apparently appeals to this type of woman. 

          Lol.

      2. 6.2.2
        Marika

        That hasn’t been my experience, YAG.

      3. 6.2.3
        Gala

        No men on bumble are just normal men, of higher quality. When i was on it I went out with business owners, finance professionals, doctors etc.  Your definition of beta is may be what i simply refer to as a modern man. I am not looking for a “confident leader to lead me” or whatever other BS. I am looking for an equal partner.

        1. Buck25

          your definition of  [what a] beta is may be what I simply refer to as a modern man. I am not looking for a “confident leader to lead me, or whatever BS.

          @Gala,

          Congrats! You just made the point Yag and Chance were trying to make! We have our  own names for “men” like that; if you don’t like “beta”,  try “Sensitive New Age Man” (that’s the term women were using the last time I was single).  I prefer the term “lapdog”, myself. Your “modern woman’s” conception of a relationship, makes about as much sense to me, as saying that both partners can lead, when you’re trying to dance a waltz. In my experience that works as well in a relationship as it does on a dance floor, which is to say, it doesn’t. Someone has to lead, and someone has to follow, and despite the feminist resentment of traditional gender roles, most REAL men (as opposed to weaklings)prefer to lead (and are generally in my experience far better at it than you are; I have met damn few women in my lifetime, regardless of educational level, etc. who were qualified in my book to be a leader in ANYTHING; leadership is a role to which many men, and the vast majority of women, are temperamentally ill-suited). Good luck with your ideologically motivated agenda, all the same; methinks you will need it. Incidentally, I suppose anyone, male or female would prefer a dating site or app that is stacked so to as to favor their own desires, convenience, preferences and of course gender politics. DATING IN THE INITIAL STAGES IS  AN ENTIRELY SELFISH ENDEAVOR, ON BOTH SIDES. Imagine that! Water is wet, ice is cold, and “I am shocked, that there is gambling in this establishment; shocked, I tell you!”

        2. Gala

          Buck25:

          What you saying is certainly not surprising, as both you and YAG are closer in age to my parents than to me. I will write this off to generational differences, there’s no point in debating such issues; certainly not on a dating blog. I will say this thou: any man who must say “i am king” is no true king at all. If you need certain type of women to feel like a “leader”, guess what, you are no true leader.

          And, i am even more convinced that bumble is the way to go 🙂

        3. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          Someone has to lead, and someone has to follow, and despite the feminist resentment of traditional gender roles, most REAL men (as opposed to weaklings)prefer to lead (and are generally in my experience far better at it than you are; 

          I agree with you, Buck, if you mean leading in the sense that YAG described it — A man asks what movie a woman would like to see, she picks it out and he goes and finds a time, place and picks her up to take her. I think a lot of women would like that. However, as Nissa wrote on another post: I want to let the man lead. I want a man who asks me my preferences, then makes a choice based on that. And I literally can’t remember the last time that happened on a date. I’ve been asked, what do I want to do, where do I want to go, what time we should meet, etc.

        4. Theodora

          I don’t know, I think dates should be enjoyable for both parties. A man who always executes what I want solely according to my preferences in restaurants, movies etc. is an indentured servant, in my opinion, not a partener and by any means a leader (to add insult to injury, usually on his effort and money, which is a little bit worse than an indentured servant).

          Nothing wrong with indentured servants, I’m just not attracted to them and it’s very difficult to respect them.

          So, I prefer other versions than a man who shows his “leadership” by “Yes, ma’am, your wish is my command”.

          – We find a comnon ground and a movie we both can enjoy.

          – Once we go to the type of movie I like, next time to the kind of movie he likes. Thus we can know each other and our preferences better. And who knows, you can discover a corner of cinema you didn’t know much about.

        5. Nissa

          Theodora,

          What you are saying makes no sense at all. If person A states her preferences, and person B picks from those preferences, then person B still gets to pick what they want from available options. If person B hates all of person A’s options, then person B can suggest a compromise. This does not compromise person B’s personal agency at all. However, if person B says nothing and resents person A for being demanding, then yes, person B can ruin the date for both of them. But most adults are mature enough to realize this without feeling wronged. If the man doesn’t like any of the choices the woman is offering, he doesn’t have to date her. Problem solved.

  7. 7
    Nina

    I used Bumble to great success and have been dating a wonderful man I met on the app for 7 months. I wouldn’t call him Beta at all. Once I opened up the conversation, he consistently pursued me, pays for things, plans great dates, etc., etc.

    Like all dating sites, its somewhat of a numbers game and just a way to meet people. I thought the quality of the men on Bumble was pretty high (although there were definite losers), and much prefered it to Tinder.

    I went on about 20 first dates over 7 months from a combination of Match and Bumble (I think maybe one or two Tinder dates) until I met my boyfriend. I talked to ALOT of men, many of whom I stopped texting or they stopped texting me. It’s just part of the process.

    I am a 36 year-old divorcee, professional, attractive, single-mom (one kid). He is a 44 year-old divorcee (no kids). We both have advanced degrees, do well in our careers, have lots of hobbies and friends. In other words, we have something to offer each other. It’s a good match and I am glad I used Bumble. No matter which app or site you use, you will have to talk/meet a lot of people until you find a good match.

  8. 8
    Theodora

    No blog entry on Aziz Ansari and “Grace”?

    I’ve been following some sites/blogs in both English and Romanian and it’s amazing how much passion people put in this story, thousands of comments dissecting the story from every possible angle and viewpoint.  I think this story hit a nerve about modern dating and its complications and many women and men recognize themselves in the two “characters”.

    1. 8.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      a. I write blogs about a month in advance.
      b. After writing about #MeToo, I’m not really sure I want to wade into those waters again. Lots to talk about, nothing to gain by talking about it.

    2. 8.2
      Emily, the original

      Theodora,

      No blog entry on Aziz Ansari and “Grace”?

      If nothing else, I would encourage anyone who perhaps wants to lose a few pounds to read the babe.net story. Reading about his sexual technique — I still can’t get over why he would think jamming his fingers down her throat was sexy — will induce nausea for several hours.

  9. 9
    Malika

    As much as the free dating sites are maligned, I have by far had the best success on Okcupid, as opposed to the paid dating sites in my country. It attracts a far wider range of people, which i find to be a good thing. When i decided to break free of the dating patterns which were getting me nowhere a few years ago, i joined it and found it to be a great place for coming into contact with men i would otherwise never meet. Yet i do agree that apart from personal preference, it comes down to how you use the site. It pays dividends to actively contact men yourself (of the four men i have dated seriously in the past two years, i opened the conversation with two of them), have a good think about how you behave and how that might come across to your date (‘Why he disappeared’ by Evan was invaluable in this regard) experiment going out with different types and to get to know yourself a lot better.

    1. 9.1
      Marika

      Fantastic advice, Malika.

      Far more useful than protracted discussions about alpha vs beta and rubbishing/writing off particular sites…particularly if you’ve never used them…;)

      Also agreed re Evan’s products. I found Finding the One Online very useful.

      1. 9.1.1
        Malika

        I have never tried Tinder as i feel uncomfortable with its reputation of hook up culture. Yet i know two couples who are now married who met on it, so i’m all laissez-faire when it comes to other people’s dating sites preferences. Whatever works for you!

         

        What did you find the most useful parts of Finding the one online? I am going to crack it open and revamp my profile soon after a short dating break.

      2. 9.1.2
        Malika

        They are far less rigid, but men still initiate the most online (offline, it is woeful, but i notice as more foreign men live in our city that they finally realize the days of being passive are over). So you are still a pleasant surprise if you write the opening e-mail.

        I’m very curious about finding the one online, hope it helps as much as why he disappeared.

    2. 9.2
      Yet Another Guy

      @Malika

      It pays dividends to actively contact men yourself (of the four men i have dated seriously in the past two years, i opened the conversation with two of them), have a good think about how you behave and how that might come across to your date (‘Why he disappeared’ by Evan was invaluable in this regard) experiment going out with different types and to get to know yourself a lot better.

      As a man who has been on several dating sites, I concur with your assessment.  The reason why men have the opinion that only desperate women open a conversation is because, for the most part, it is true.  The only women who are making any kind of attempt to reach out to men on a regular basis are women who receive little to no interest on dating sites.  I have lost count of the number of times that I said to myself, “Does she not know that dating is a like-seeks-like process?”  It is also the reason why my radar went hot when an HB8 opened a conversation with me.  Women cannot complain about riff raff when the only time they make an effort to reach out is when they are reaching up.   Women who are part of the bottom 30% routinely reach up for the top 20%.  I am lucking to be part of the top 20% within my age group.  I am always polite when a woman reaches up; however, I am not going to entertain anything with her other than sex, and sex has been so easy for me to obtain on dating sites that I have no reason to do so.

      1. 9.2.1
        Malika

        Before contacting, i always make sure i am in their prefered age range , they are open for an ltr with the right woman, and that i see a profile whereby we could surmise that we would hit it off. It’s always a crapshoot whether they will answer back but if i don’t get an answer i assume i’m either not of interest to him or very likely is already talking to enough women. I have even had very polite ‘rejection’ messages, which, as they were worded in the right manner i didn’t feel bad about. If you never try, you never win, etc.

        Whenever i met up with a guy i contacted first, they were always surprised that i had done it and was always complimented on the initiative. It’s a move i would recommend any woman to try, but you need to be able to guess who would welcome your message.

        1. Marika

          Really, Malika, they actually mention and appreciate the initiative on the date? I’m surprised as I thought dating norms for you in your neck of the woods were less rigid, as they are for me. Here, no one would even remember who contacted who first. I’m very glad about that. I would never want to live somewhere where men had such a huge issue with a woman messaging them online. Or read so much into it.

          In terms of your question about Finding the One Online, it was more than a year ago that I completed it, but there are many useful parts. Probably the most useful is the type of message you should send. I have a very high response rate to my messages, because I make them so ‘have to respond’-like. Funny, short and personalised. Also, Evan explains well why EHarmony wasn’t right for me. I hadn’t been able to put my finger on it beforehand.

          Have fun with it. Looking forward to hearing what you think ☺

  10. 10
    xxxxxxxxxx

    YAG, Chance, Buck…………….I don’t think you are getting the point the women here are making.

    1. Women do not want the derelicts and rejects contacting them. They want the narrow the pool to “quality” men.

    2. Men who would normally get NO attention from women on other dating platforms will quickly drop out of Bumble. Thus achieving 1. for women.

    Yes it is unfair that the top 20% (according to the manosphere – could be wrong) get ALL the attention from women.  Shaukraut make the point that less attractive women do get some  attention and matches from a range of men. Less attractive men do not get any replies – crickets for them. Then again, life IS unfair.

    Less attractive men prefer non Bumble like platforms where they at least might get 0.1% shot rather than 0% shot.

    Chance, you made your point that women have the advantage in online dating so maybe these women need not get MORE of an advantage. But then, it is up to men to decide if they want to play that game. If it is in their interest to do so, they will.

    The fact that theere seems to be quality men on Bumble (according to the women here – I have no idea) means that men are getting something out of it. Playing by women’s rule may appear “beta” and “not taking charge” and women wanting to establish rules may seem “masculine” and “controlling” but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. If these kind of matches are not sustainable, then the whole edifice will collapse.

    1. 10.1
      Chance

      “YAG, Chance, Buck…………….I don’t think you are getting the point the women here are making.

      1. Women do not want the derelicts and rejects contacting them. They want the narrow the pool to “quality” men.”

       

      LOL.  That’s exactly my point.  Tell you what:  I’m gonna set up a dating platform where all the women are required to respond to all the guys who contact them (but not the other way around).  You know, egalitarian.  Then, we’ll get some male writers on the interwebs to write about how it’s high time a dating app such as this has finally been developed because it “empowers men” by forcing women to engage with them.

       

      Wanna sign up?

      1. 10.1.1
        Marika

        Honestly, Chance, you’ve got zero credibility on this issue. You’re not single and you’ve never used Bumble.

        The men aren’t required to respond.

        Check your facts, give it a try and then we’ll chat.

        And btw, I would have no issue with an app that required men to make the first move. In Australia it would be quite refreshing.

      2. 10.1.2
        Shaukat

        Lol, Chance, that type of platform could potentially be successful with women under certain conditions. For example, if women were required to respond to men (but not vice versa) and the male users of this app were all in the top 5% in terms of wealth, status, looks, etc, then I doubt many women would complain.

        Point being, men are flocking to bumble, not because they agree with the premise, but rather because that’s what most attractive women are using these days. I’m not saying most of the female users are in the top 5% of anything, but when attractive women are concentrated somewhere, guys tend to follow.

        Marika, I don’t think Chance was insinuating that men on bumble are required to respond. I think his comparison was meant to show that bumble solves a dating problem for women but not for men, in the same that his hypothetical app would solve an issue for men but not women. I have used bumble, and while I have no problem with it ideologically, I do think it has some major flaws.

        1. Marika

          Okay, Shaukat, it sounds like Bumble wasn’t for you, so instead you’re using one of the many other apps out there. Freely available for use. Not being forced by anyone to use Bumble against your will…;) Or complaining about it whilst in a relationship and never having used it.

          Fair enough.

          What is surprising is that the men who have a problem with traditional dating norms whereby men have to approach, also have a problem with an app that flips this around. I guess there’s just no pleasing them.

        2. Chance

          Marika, with all due respect:  you’re overreacting.  I just said I wouldn’t use Bumble because it has two sets of rules based on gender.  Not sure why you take so much of an exception to that, and I can’t say that I really care to speculate.  Also, please copy/paste an instance where I have complained that men are expected to make the approach.  You won’t find it.  I have railed against the custom of men being expected to pay in an era where women expect to be treated as equals, but Bumble doesn’t solve that problem, does it?  Bumble doesn’t flip anything around… it just makes it easier for women.  Finally, Shaukat’s interpretation of my prior comment is correct.

           

          Like you said, to each his own…. so have fun with women’s online dating equivalent of bumper bowling.

    2. 10.2
      Theodora

      I agree. By the end of the day, the market will decide what is sustainable or not.

      Besides, supposing  it’s true that on Bumble one can find more masculine women and more feminine men than the average, it just means they are a good match to each other.

  11. 11
    Elena

    I can only comment on personal experience. I used Tinder and eHarmony (I’m in UK). Despite all bad things said about Tinder it worked for me. And it was free. I was curious to try a website where everybody pays and subscribed to eHarmony. EHarmony was very quiet and to be brutally honest was waste of money. Should I need to go back to dating – Tinder all the way. I don’t like long email exchanges or weeks of texting. My way of dating do quick get to know basics (jobs, kids, when got single, reason for getting on Tinder etc) and pre-screening and then meet for a coffee/drink to see each other in reality. And for that type of dating swipe-apps deliver in my opinion.

    1. 11.1
      Yet Another Guy

      @Elena

      My way of dating do quick get to know basics (jobs, kids, when got single, reason for getting on Tinder etc) and pre-screening and then meet for a coffee/drink to see each other in reality.

      I suspect that Evan came about the 2/2/2 rule for the same reason that I came about my own date selection process that is very much like the 2/2/2 rule before discovering this blog; namely, quick-and-dirty dating is expensive for guys who are accustomed to picking up the tab.  The cost of quick-and-dirty meet-and-greets (a.k.a. pre-dates) adds up over time.  I spent close to eight thousand dollars in one year exchanging a couple of brief messages before meeting for coffee or drinks.  Granted, I went on a lot of dates, but that is the type of date exchanging a few brief messages before meeting yields.  Women do not mind meeting after a few brief messages because they do not usually have to pickup the tab.

      1. 11.1.1
        Nissa

        YAG,

        As a woman who doesn’t mind meeting right away, I want to add an idea: I prefer meeting right away because, as a woman, a lot of my attraction (not arousal) is based on personality, which can be hard to gauge on pictures.

        If a man seems average in photos (meets baseline arousal), I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he might not realize that his photos don’t represent his best self. When I meet him in person, it only takes a few minutes to see how he holds his body, to see if he radiates confidence / passion / pleasure, to hear how comfortable he is in new situations, and to see if he takes initiative. And NONE of that costs him anything.

        It truly boggles my mind that most of the men who complain about women costing them so much, refuse to plan a no cost date. And there are so many ways to do it!! Attend the same meet-up, watch a sunset, go for a walk, visit a dog park / museum / art display / free community events / farmer’s market.

        What’s funny is that I’m one of the few women who won’t use Bumble for the exact reason a lot of women like it: I won’t initiate. Not because I’m too shy or don’t want to pay for dates, but because I’ve done that, and found it profoundly ineffective. I tried EHarmony (no photos) and was matched with men who were not my physical type and there was zero chemistry. I liked Match best, but agree that a great deal of time is spent returning messages to men that you don’t match in multiple ways.

        For me, the bottom line is that I want to meet a man who likes what he sees when he looks at my photo, and who is confident enough to pursue. Without that, it’s not going anywhere anyway, so I won’t waste MY time.

        1. Elena

          I totally agree with Nissa regarding first date. I meet with a man to see how he looks in real life and what he’s got to say not to get free dinner of him. That I can buy myself without any trouble. I had a couple of totally free for a man dates – a walk in the park on a beautiful day was already mentioned. I actually prefer NOT to commit to a dinner for a first date. If a date is not going well it’s much easier to exit a coffee date or a walk-in-the-park date than dinner.

          I struggle to understand how you managed to spend $8000 on dates within one year. To spend that amount of money you would have to have a date every single day of the year spending about 22 dollars every single day.  That sounds exhausting 🙂

        2. SparklingEmerald

          Hi Nissa. The convo and the advice from women to men to plan low cost or no cost dates have been happening for as long as I have been on this blog.  Several women, including myself have made numerous suggestions for free meet and greets such as you have done above.  At that point, the male complainers of how expensive it is to date, go completely silent.  My guess is that these men are not really interested in a solution, but want to remain in victim mode.  They just can’ t seem to shake off the confirmation bias that all women are gold digging whores, out to rob men of their hard earned cash.

  12. 12
    Yet Another Guy

    I thought about this topic over the weekend.  The argument that Bumble somehow gives women more control from unwanted attention is a non-sequitur.  Any application that requires two-party swiping before a conversation can be opened is by design a site that prevents unwanted attention from occurring; therefore, we are looking at logical fallacy.   If a woman swipes on my photo, she has by definition given me permission to open a conversation with her.  The real reason why women like Bumble is because it allows them to game their options while emasculating men in the process; hence, my belief that only beta men (a.k.a. feminized men) do not find the Bumble model to be wanting.  It is about control, and anyone who believes differently is being disingenuous.  It is not unlike what occurs de facto for men on traditional dating sites; however, in that case, men can game their options due to inaction on the part of women.   These sites are not stripping a woman’s right to open a conversation.  Most are waving it, and then complaining about men gaming their options and serial dating.

    1. 12.1
      Buck25

      The real  why women like Bumble is because it allows them to game their options while emasculating men in the process; hence, my belief that only beta men (a.k.a. feminized men) do  not find the Bumble model to be wanting.

      Ding! Ding! Ding! Nailed it perfectly in 12 above, YAG!

      I think women like Gala,  et al, like the idea of taking the initiative away from men and leaving it solely in their hands; evidently they need that control to  feel “empowered”. Pathetic, in my book (it’s not as if women are exactly “powerless” in the more traditional online dating market, after all), but whatever. Since women in the age group I date don’t use that app in any great number, I don’t suppose it concerns me much, but YMMV.*SMH*

    2. 12.2
      Marika

      Emily 

      I think it can help to bear in mind that people this relentlessly negative and ctitical tend to be coming from a place of pain & hurt.

      1. 12.2.1
        Emily, the original

        Marika,

        I think it can help to bear in mind that people this relentlessly negative and ctitical tend to be coming from a place of pain & hurt.

        True. But all we ever hear about is all the women in line to be with him, which of course makes no sense. If things are going that well, why be on a site for dating advice?

        What happened with your dating experience? I remember you posting about a guy you really liked but you were also trying to date other guys until you knew where he stood?

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          True. But all we ever hear about is all the women in line to be with him, which of course makes no sense. If things are going that well, why be on a site for dating advice?

          If you are referring to me, I never once said that women are queued up to be with me, at least not knowingly.  Do I maintain a queue when I am actively engaged in online dating?  Absolutely!  Any man who is reasonably successful at securing dates on dating sites does it by maintaining a queue of date candidates.   Online dating is difficult for men.  We have to open and close most contacts.  It takes a lot of effort to get from an opening message to a first date.  Both sides are playing the queue up potential dates and see who makes it an actual date game.  Any woman who believes that she is the only woman with whom a man is communicating on a dating site/app is either drawing from the bottom of the barrel or not in touch with reality.   The same can be said for men.  People on dating sites are exercising their options.

          Being successful at securing dates does not automatically translate to knowing all there is to know about relationships.  There are things that I have learned on this site and things at which I continue to shake my head.  People view things differently.

  13. 13
    Gala

    Honestly, the fact that guys with attitudes of YAG and Buck25 are self-selecting off Bumble is the biggest commercial there can ever be for that app.

    1. 13.1
      Buck25

      Gala, I can’t speak for YAG, but I already self-selected out of dating women in your age group anyway. I have to say I feel bad for the younger guys having the initiative taken from them as you prefer, and I’m not sure of the long term ramifications of that for either gender, but (I guess fortunately, for me), I won’t be around for whatever that leads to, 20 years hence. Knock yourself out, anyway (not that you need or want my encouragement for  doing so). Like I said, whatever.

      1. 13.1.1
        Marika

        No need to feel bad for the men on Bumble, Buck. They are there because they want to be there. No one’s forcing them.

    2. 13.2
      Yet Another Guy

      @Gala

      Au contraire!  It is more a sign that men who enjoy being men should stay the heck away from Bumble.  I discussed the topic of masculinity with peer-age friends over the weekend, and we all agreed that Millennial men have been feminized to the point where they leave a lot to be desired in the masculine energy department.  You do not have to take my word for it.  All one needs to do is Google the words “millennial,” “men,” and “feminine.”  The number of hits is eye opening. That is why a lot of younger women prefer older men to peer-age men.  It has more to do with wanting a man who is masculine and take-charge than daddy issues.  I do not date women younger than age 45, but I have had women much younger than that age approach me on dating sites.  Every time they do, it is because men their age do not know how to properly court a woman.  Like it or not, most women still want a man to lead.  They want to feel the level of desire that only comes from being pursued by a strong, masculine man, a man who has the ability to make a woman feel safe and secure.  Women also want be wanted by men who have options, and strong, masculine, take-charge men have the most options.

      1. 13.2.1
        Gala

        Why would I need to google what millennial men are like when I have dated them as a millennial woman?

        You are living in a fantasy where “many” women prefer older men and where women still are looking for a “leader to protect them”. In the actual reality, of course, the stats don’t bear this out at all. Most couples are close in age, and tinder has 2x as many men as women, while bumble has 50/50 (any more questions on which one women want??) So much for your theories. I can’t believe you still think that in 2018 somebody is buying this misogynistic bs.

        I really don’t understand why you think a man like you is such a gift to women. Literally nothing about what you said about yourself makes you a desirable partner. Most of all, the fact that you have never been one to any woman and have no desire to be in the future. All you are seeking and offering is sex (even if it is covered up by a thin veneer of “properly courting a woman”), and as a guy pushing 50, you’ve got nothing on a 20 or 30-something, sorry.

        1. Stacy

          @Gala

          Tell the truth and shame the devil (as my mother used to say).

          For some reason, men are bent on thinking women like significantly older men. No, the women you see in the media are there because the man is famous/have lots of power/money and are outliers. Back in the day, women did not have much of a choice because they did not have as much freedom to choose.

          In REAL life today, women tend to like men their age and yes, women are more flexible as far as age than men. Why would an attractive and successful woman who has her own money prefer a man much older when she can date her peer? It happens but RARELY.

        2. Stacy

          @Gala

          Additionally, these men try to convince themselves that women mostly like much older men because THEY like much younger women and as a result, they want to hold on to this delusion.

        3. Yet Another Guy

          @Gala

          You are living in a fantasy where “many” women prefer older men and where women still are looking for a “leader to protect them”.

          I did not say “many” women.  I said a lot of the women who prefer older men do so because older men know how to properly court a woman.  That has been the my experience as well as the experience of peer-age men that I know. Why else would a younger woman desire an older man over a younger man who is still in the “pretty” stage of his life?  Older men have been around the block; therefore, we are not delusional.

          I really don’t understand why you think a man like you is such a gift to women. Literally nothing about what you said about yourself makes you a desirable partner. Most of all, the fact that you have never been one to any woman and have no desire to be in the future. All you are seeking and offering is sex (even if it is covered up by a thin veneer of “properly courting a woman”),

          You know nothing about me other than what I have written on this blog.  Yes, I have a colorful past, but I am also a very protective of those I love.  I was married for the better part of two decades.  I helped raise two daughters who unquestionably know that they are loved by their father.

          If we want to talk about being a fair weather, less than desirable partner, I bet that your marriage lasted less than a decade.  I cannot imagine you making the sacrifices that I did to hold my marriage together.  You appear to be too self-focused in your approach to life to do so.  It appears to be all about Gala, and that approach to life will wear any man thin over time.

          As far as to not wanting a long-term commitment, it is because I have earned the right to be single.  Desiring to be single does not make met a bad partner.  A bad partner is one who is unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary to hold a relationship together through thick and thin.  You gave up early, enough said!

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Stacy

          I am under no illusion that young women prefer me to peer-age men.  I do not chase age-inappropriate women, nor do I want to date something a woman twenty-plus years my junior. However, I will say that I have always dated women my junior stretching back as far as high school.  Women enjoy a larger dating age range when they are younger whereas men enjoy a larger dating age range when they are older.  No one is getting over on anyone, and no one is getting the cold shoulder.  You cannot blame men for continuing a practice that was forced upon them when they were younger.  How many women who contribute to this blog dated a same-age boy in high school or same-age man college?  I bet that number is dwarfed by the women who dated older boys in high school and older men in college.  It is not uncommon for a women who is a freshman in college to date a professional man who is twenty-four or twenty-five.  That age gap affords comforts that college-age men cannot provide.  It is not until women get divorced later in life that they desire a peer-age or younger man.  I rest my case!

        5. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Why else would a younger woman desire an older man over a younger man who is still in the “pretty” stage of his life?  

          Money

        6. Gala

          YAG: Why else would a younger woman desire an older man over a younger man who is still in the “pretty” stage of his life?  

          You REALLY don’t know?? Money and status. Women date older men (including in college) for the prestige that their relatively higher status affords. Once the peers catch up, women no longer prefer older men. In addition, older men will work harder to earn young women’s affection and are easier to manipulate, making them an attractive target for a certain type of girls. So no, it is not your chivalry or your head full of hair.

          Lastly, you may not realize it, but it is incredibly easy for  women in their 30-ies to date guys up to and over 10 years their junior. Like, I only have to show up in a club and I have a bunch of 20-something hitting on me and I could take any of them home. Are they after just sex – sure, of course they are. But then again so are you. The choice here is clear.

        7. Buck25

          Tell the truth and shame the devil

          I think YAG just did, with this one:

          It is not until women get divorced later in life that they desire a peer-age or younger man.

          Yep! A hanging curve, and that ball is crushed! It is high, it is far…it is…GONE!

        8. Emily, the original

          It is not until women get divorced later in life that they desire a peer-age or younger man.

          Yes, they got the money from the older husband and now they want a guy who turns them on.

        9. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          Yes, they got the money from the older husband and now they want a guy who turns them on.

          The problem is that most fifty-something women complain about men their age and up to ten years their junior not being interested.  Duh!  Women create this problem when they are younger.  They cannot have it both ways.  Fifty-something men tend to pursue forty-something women, and forty-something men tend to want to push things by pursuing twenty-something women. If you do not believe me, spend a little time reading forty and fifty-something female profiles Match. The number of profiles where a woman has shaved years from her age to get below age fifty with verbiage stating she did it to get below peer-age male age filters is nothing short of amazing, and that is only the women who come clean about the practice.   The volume of what amounts to hate mail that I receive because my upper age bound is my age is amazing. Now, I will agree that if all an older woman wants is sex, then, yes, she can get it from a same-age or younger man.  However, most older women cannot secure a relationship with a same-age or younger man.  They can secure a relationship with a younger man if they are willing to go down to what is effectively sugar baby age; but then they are facing even worse problems than delusional older men who chase sugar baby age women encounter due to the fact that most men eventually want a biological family of their own. 

        10. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Now, I will agree that if all an older woman wants is sex, then, yes, she can get it from a same-age or younger man.  However, most older women cannot secure a relationship with a same-age or younger man. 

          I’m not going to respond to you anymore. Your tone is negative and I think you’re here just to put down older women. I have been overly sarcastic in comments myself, which I am not going to allow myself to do anymore. I don’t want my energy mixed up with your darkness.

      2. 13.2.2
        Marika

        This thread reminds me of how every generation thinks their music is the best…

  14. 14
    Marika

    Chance

    Look at all your comments on here and tell me again…who’s overreacting?

  15. 15
    Lynx

    The comments here are hilarious! Don’t like Bumble? Then don’t use it. Don’t like Match? Then don’t use it. [Repeat for all dating sites.]

    Haven’t actually used a particular platform? Then readers should weight your assessment of it accordingly.

    It does sound like the men (on this forum) with negative attitudes toward women making the first move tend to skew older. Happily, as a mid-50s woman who will reach out first, the men I’ve contacted on OKC and Match haven’t been as squeamish.

    In my experience, the men on OKC seem to have a more youthful attitude than the men on Match. I stick with my own age range on both platforms, but the initial messaging has been more interesting than Match. But perhaps that could simply be due to the interface, which is clunkier on Match.

  16. 16
    JB

    This is more of FYI statement. I’ve recently noticed that Match has been filling in for or offering women “stock” quips to put in the “In My Own Words” section. I’ve noticed 10 or more that look like this:1.) I like to look for the good in people and situations. I’m the friend that all my friends go to for encouragement when they’re going through something.2.)I think I’m pretty easy to get along with. I think it’s because I like to listen just as much as I like to talk. People find it easy to communicate with me and I think that’s a big reason why.3.) I’m a “tell it like it is” person. Sometimes it gets me in trouble, but most times people appreciate knowing exactly where I stand.4.) Some people call me spontaneous, but I just like to keep things open. Because sometimes that’s when the truly special moments happen.5.) I think I’m pretty easy to get along with. I think it’s because I like to listen just as much as I like to talk. People find it easy to communicate with me and I think that’s a big reason why.It’s almost running at about 50% of new women’s profiles as of April 2018. It makes most profiles even worse because what do email those people and say?  I’m wondering if women are see these in Men’s profiles and are people really that lazy that they can’t come up with 3 sentences on their own. I also know these aren’t fake profiles because I’ve Googled and saw the person as well as met some of them. Can’t argue with Match though as the stock price soars from the IPO price. 

  17. 17
    JB

    Well I can see the paragraph divider isn’t working on this site as my post above didn’t look like that when I posted it….oh well I only wanted to add that I’m sure they give these as “suggestions” for women to use but the women who can’t or don’t look at other women’s profiles don’t realize that they all have the same things in the “In my own words” section. Everyone is using them now. It’s ridiculous! I’d rather see empty space if someone can’t tell about themselves in a few sentences. I’m sure a 6th grader could do it let alone all these women with degrees.

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