I’m Dating A Passive Beta Male. Is His Behavior Normal?

Handsome man cooking with his girlfriend

Hi Evan,

I love your blog and Why He Disappeared. It can be a tough pill to swallow at times, but I appreciate your no-nonsense advice. I’ve had to learn the hard way, that my “go-getter” attitude does not translate well in the dating world. Not doing anything in the beginning stages of dating tends to drive me crazy.

I’ve been dating a beta-male for about a month and a half. He’s a total sweetheart and for the first time in a long time, I feel very safe. He’s kind, attentive and affectionate- when we’re together. He communicates with me daily, mostly through text message, to which I always respond warmly.

Here’s where I’m struggling: I find myself wanting to take over and take control with him sometimes (planning things mostly). I am resisting this urge as I’m trying out your mirroring concept.

My question: We’re texting everyday, but he’ll wait FOREVER, (in actuality, 5-7 days) before asking to see me again. What gives? Is this a downside of dating a typical beta (i.e., no initiative) or is he just not that interested in me? Do I continue to utilize patience or should I move on?

Thanks, Evan!

Dear Michelle,

Thanks for reading “Why He Disappeared — The Smart, Strong, Successful Woman’s Guide to Understanding Men and Keeping the Right One Hooked Forever”. Glad it turned on a few light bulbs in helping you realize how a few of your behaviors have been ineffective in forging a relationship with a man.

But I have to say that if I had to write the whole thing again, I would have taken a few pages to put in a caveat:

This advice doesn’t work for every single woman in every single situation with every single guy. Basically, WHD was written for alpha females who want to date alpha males. It was a way to open your eyes about how the men you’re the MOST attracted to don’t necessarily want to date you in return.

While you’ve adjusted your take-charge attitude, you haven’t adjusted for the fact that you’re NOT dating a take-charge guy.

And in the absence of giving yourself an entire personality-ectomy, the smartest thing you can do is a) be aware of some of your tendencies to dominate and b) find a partner who is cool with them.

You, apparently, have done both of those things, Michelle.   But while you’ve adjusted your take-charge attitude, you haven’t adjusted for the fact that you’re NOT dating a take-charge guy.

Take charge guys are the ones who will always follow up quickly, make plans, make the first move, and claim you as their girlfriends.

Beta guys are the ones who have more kindness than confidence. They’re not nearly as assertive. They’re so passive as to be, well, almost feminine in nature. They are not going to put themselves on the line for rejection until it’s 100% clear that you like them. They would sooner wait to get a written notice in the mail that you’re really, truly interested in them than to follow up too much and potentially make you uncomfortable.

Is any of this hitting home, my friend?

So you’re not wrong to curb a little bit of that domineering side. Where you’ve gone astray is that when you’re with a beta male, you’re ALLOWED to be more alpha. “Doing nothing” as I describe in WHD works with take-charge guys because those guys don’t need you to take charge. Your new guy DOES.

The good news is that, if he’s a true beta, he’ll be THRILLED that you’re taking control.

So instead of extrapolating my advice to apply to every man, make an adjustment based on the man you’re actually dating. The good news is that, if he’s a true beta, he’ll be THRILLED that you’re taking control.

When you’re done reading this, give him a call to find out if he’s around this weekend. You’d like to cook him dinner. I suspect that’s all you’ll need to seduce him into becoming your boyfriend. And if, in fact, he’s just not that into you, you’ll figure that out quickly, too.

For all of the women who are reading this who would not be able to tolerate such behavior from your guy and prefer a take-charge man, do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of “Why He Disappeared”. You’ll be very glad you did.

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  1. 1
    Beta Female

    I wish I read this 6 months ago when I was dating a beta male cause I thought he just wasnt into me and we had many conversations about that.   He  accepted me planning everything and anything but I am a beta female and there was 18 years age difference so I think that was what bothered me too.   He was not bothered by the age difference but could easily go 2-3 weeks without seeing me….but would call me every day and text every day.   I just couldn’t keep it up after 9 months that he would never make a plan or cancel due to work.   I got the vibe he just wasn’t that interested in me and broke up with him.   He was a great guy too but figured he would eventually want to get married and have kids with someone. I’m typically attracted to alpha males so I was very confused by his behavior.   After 6 months I asked him what we were and he said “you want me to be your boyfriend” then we are boyfriend/girlfriend!   Never took initiative to plan anything fun and when he did something would always come up and we had to go to Plan B.   Interested to hear from other ladies on here….

    1. 1.1

      I think the main issue here and the part left out of EMK’s advice is that just because a man is more beta, that doesn’t mean he is head over heels for any woman he might have some degree of interest in.   He might be shy, might tend toward passivity, might need a woman to take more of the initiative.   But he could be all of these things and also think she’s fun but not “the one.”   So even if she has correctly pegged him as a beta, due to his wishy washy behavior, that woman still does not know what his actual level of interest in her is.

      Women are *assuming* that the hesitance of certain men is due to their personalities when in reality, they don’t know whether such men are hesitant for the same reason a lukewarm alpha might be hesitant–he’s just not that into her–or whether they are super into these women but just don’t have the wherewithal to pursue more assertively.   She just doesn’t know.

      A man who cancels dates and doesn’t make places and is not internally motivated to move things forward should be treated according to his actions.   Instead of trying to get inside his head and decide what he must really be thinking or feeling, the much superior path is the one where a woman simply moves on to a man who can communicate clearly in word and deed that she is a priority to him.

  2. 2

    Yeah, I think this is pretty awesome advice, Evan.   I used to date Alpha males but have moved on to sweeter, more gentle Omegas (I prefer to think of them as not Betas, which to me implies one step Lower than Alphas, but rather just miles away in terms of personality, behaviours and goals).    I’d wait for them to take action and would feel confused and unsure of their intentions when they seemed passive.   
    I think you ought to write another book, Evan, on how to attract, keep and be happy with wonderful Beta/Omega men.    Even how to figure out if a guy is an Alpha or not; it can be hard to tell with some of these successful, nerdy, techie-types.    

    1. 2.1

      Communicate but, never try to control or change someone.  


    2. 2.2

      Beta is one thing but Omeg??? yikes why would you want that ? A beta 2nd in command and omega is literately the scape goat bottom of the pecking order.


      1. 2.2.1

        She just made up the name

        1. luna

          have we learned nothing from Jurassic world?

          the omega is the proper term for the lowest in rank, and usually hangs out with the alpha for protection and the alphas normally like this as an omega unlike a beta, is not perceived as a threat

          its quite common to see this in wolf packs, and i think its sweet

      2. 2.2.2

        If I am a beta??

        Then I hang with other betas.

        I think Gammas are great.

  3. 3

    A mixture of both would be ideal 🙂     

    1. 3.1

      I think of myself as both.   More alpha then beta but go beta once in awhile  

  4. 4
    Jackie H.

    Hooray for beta males…Alpha males can be annoying anyway…

  5. 5

    “When you’re done reading this, give him a call to find out if he’s around this weekend. You’d like to cook him dinner.”
    So … dude gets dinner and the company of his lovely gf.   She has to call him up & invite him, make the plans, buy the groceries, plan the meal, make the whole thing (three courses at least, I’m sure), find the time to decorate both the house and herself, and charm him all evening …?
    I hope dude brings at minimum his best behavior, some thanks for the excellent meal, and two bottles of her favorite wine.   Oh – and an oxygen mask.  
    It wouldn’t hurt if he threw something into the $$ pot for the groceries either.   It’s not just working men who are feeling the effects of the recession.   Working women feel it too.
    Anybody else feel like emotional, not to mention concrete, reciprocity in relationships is not just slipping, but being actively shoved, through the cracks of what we continue to call modern society …?
    P.S.   EMK – nice, nice job on Marni’s panel the other evening.   It’s good to know that sometimes it’s not so much some of your concepts I take issue with as it is said concepts’ written delivery (which — as speech and written language come from two different brain centers — I at times suspected, but couldn’t actually verify without having had the privilege of listening to that silky baritone 🙂 ).
    Further, on the blog, there are a lot of topics where men are actively encouraged to use their relationship-relevant leverage, and women are exhorted to just work around it (I know “men won’t change, so women have to” is a pretty fundamental tenet to the work so it’s never going away, but at least the fundamental inequity & imbalance therein is at least apparent when it’s set up like that – and of course women “get” to choose whether or not to work with it) … whereas the talk seemed much more focused on finding, and communicating around, the Venn diagrammed points in relationship where men’s and women’s interests do in fact intersect.   (See, I paid really close attention. 🙂 )
    So, in short, thank you so much for doing that.   You were great.

    1. 5.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Any compliment coming from you, m, is a meaningful one. You’re a tough audience. Thanks for the shout-out.

      1. 5.1.1


        M does seem to have understood this stuff at an advanced level…

        Where did s/he hear it

  6. 6

    Ugh, I can’t stand people like this, whether it’s a romantic, professional, or platonic situation. I have a lot of courage and confidence and reciprocity is very important to me — I want someone who can engage on an equal level. Somebody this slow would be a poor match for me.  

    1. 6.1

      “reciprocity is very important to me – I want someone who can engage on an equal level. ” I agree with u Jenna -100 percent. I prefer a guy who will definitely take the initiative. Yep. U see as the first poster basically said, if u make all the plans, one might get the impression that the man is not all that into u. Based on all that I have learnt from the three coaches I follow up, especially the very first one who I followed up really closely, when I was making all the plans, calling him and taking the initiative to do a lot of stuff, I was CHASING HIM. That’s right. And that DRIVES MEN AWAY. I am not going to chase any man again. I want a man who will take the initiative to call, make plans for dinner and so on. You must take the lead for me. I am not going to take the masculine role. Nope. Evan, if you are reading this, I will definitely have to invest in “why he disappeared”, as that is exactly what happened to me in my last relationship. I have to buy this book between now and my birthday (end of November).

      1. 6.1.1

        Actually Karen, it was a good thing YOU were the one doing the CHASING, because chasing is what the woman does. Chasing exhibits feminine energy. You’re supposed to be chase him because it lets him know you’re into him. However it’s his, ‘the man’s’, job to simply set dates with you, hang out, and hook up. It’s all about having fun together. Dating and love is supposed to be playful and fun, not serious.

        Here’s my constructive criticism part, I think your definition of a beta male, and probably of an alpha male, is messed up, because you are probably one of the 97% of the population out there who buys into the media, film, movies, TV shows, and other junk that rots your brain and makes you stupid.

        Second, and this is IMPORTANT, just because you were making plans and calling him and stuff, doesn’t necessarily mean you were chasing him.

        You’re confused believing that taking charge and chasing are the same thing, when it’s NOT.

        I’m probably not the best person to be telling you something like this, especially since you didn’t ask for it, so I apologize in advance if I offended you. Have a good day. God bless Karen 🙂

        1. Kareen

          “Second, and this is IMPORTANT, just because you were making plans and calling him and stuff, doesn’t necessarily mean you were chasing him.

          You’re confused believing that taking charge and chasing are the same thing, when it’s NOT.”. Something to think about. I hope Evan sees what u said Tim. I would love to hear his imput. Its a good thing I stopped and glanced at the email when it came in as I am super busy. This is definitely something to think about and I would love to have Evan as the coach give his expert advice on this. Thanks for your comments and may God bless u too Tim.

        2. starthrower68

          There’s another dating coach, who hasn’t posted on here in a while that says the exact opposite. So who do we believe? Your life coach or the other one?

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          Sorry, bud. Women shouldn’t chase men. They shouldn’t have to. If a guy is into her, he’ll make plans with her. If he’s not, he won’t.

          You’re simply saying that women should chase YOU because YOU won’t show genuine interest because your life coach points out (accurately) that women often respond to mixed messages. I come from a different point of view.

          If you’re a REALLY confident guy, you can do whatever you want and women will respond. If she likes you, she’ll be THRILLED that you were consistent and kind, rather than aloof and mysterious.

          You are entitled to live your life as if your paradigm is a healthy one, but for women who are looking for husbands? Your advice of chasing men down as “feminine” behavior is all sorts of wrong.

          God bless Tim!

        4. peter

          Chasing is 100% MASCULINE ENERGY behaviour. You sound like one of those silly coaches like wayne or other PUA’s. Sorry man but this is a serious blog with serious people. Through your PUA ill reasoning somewhere else.

  7. 7

    So I guess this makes everything a bit more vague for me. If he’s not asking you out is it because he’s not interested or because he’s beta? My default stance is to believe its because he’s not interested and move on. The only truly beta men I’ve gone out with have followed up right away, were very interested but put me on a pedestal and made me feel uncomfortable with the enthusiasm they have towards me that I didn’t really earn.

    1. 7.1

      That’s because you and other self entitled alpha wannabes think respect should be earned.respect should be automatically given until you find out the person doesn’t deserve it.backwards alpha   wannabes while your think ing your the greatest I’ll be working   to self improve on things that will make   me an all around better person.

      1. 7.1.1

        Did I turn you down for a second date Andre?

        As a follow up, my partner now is a bit more beta, he’s quiet, shy, very romantic. He never has held back in stepping up the relationship. He was never so beta that he didn’t ask for everything he wanted, from second dates, to exclusivity, to moving in. So I still believe my original statement that men not asking you out again means they are disinterested.  

        1. Tim

          Asking you out in what way Julia?

          Because it bothers me that you say in your first comment, that when men put you on a pedestal, especially when you didn’t do anything to deserve it, makes you feel uncomfortable, which I agree with because my life coach says often in his videos that kind of sh*t turns women off, and it does, and your comment even PROVES it.

          HOWEVER, I’m replying to your statement, ‘that men not asking you out again means they are disinterested’. Let’s break this down, you said the word, ‘AGAIN’, which implies, and how I see it, some guy asked you out, you said no, he walks and never looks back, end of story, but YOUR problem is, he DOESN’T ask you out again…WHY would he come back to you after you rejected him? WHY would he CHASE you?

          Men should NEVER EVER chase women, because that ALWAYS exhibits needy, desperate, and feminine energy, and that’s a HUGE turn off for women, despite all the bullsh*t you see on tv and in movies and media and film and all that other stuff, because in those romantic comedies, instead of restraining orders that should be given to those stupid clingy beta men, they get the girl, but that’s not how REAL LIFE works.

          Or you could just be a b*tch and like that kind of masochistic behavior, and if that’s the case, you need to see a shrink.

          I apologize if I offended you, I’m only trying to help, as I asked my life coach for help, but of course you didn’t ask for my opinion on here, so, sorry anyways I guess lol 🙂

          God bless Julia!

        2. starthrower68

          That was as subtle as a flying mallet. Put some insults in the response, then cover it with “oh, sorry to offend”, and “God bless”. Methinks “the life coach” is a PUA guy.

        3. peter

          some men wownt  ask you out because they think you will say no, also some men are too nervous to ask you out. In fact in my case, the more I liked someone the less likely id be to ask them out because I know id look nervous and if I screwed it up itd be over for good ! beta men will always be very nervous asking women out, because of this the woman says no, beause of this the man loses more confidence and inds it harder to ask the next one out, who inevitably says no because your nervous ! Its the nervs that mean they are really really keen !

        4. Karmic Equation

          So, Peter, ask out women who you’re less keen on and just like a little bit.
          If you ask out a 10 as a nervous beta, then, ya, she’ll likely say no.
          If you ask out a girl in your league (assuming you know what that is) or below it, then you wouldn’t be as nervous.
          Unless you’re saying you’re nervous asking out any girls, even those you consider average or below average.
          Ask out the nicest girl you know instead of the prettiest. You might find that her niceness is what you need more in a girl than pretty.

      2. 7.1.2

        Actually, Andre, any true alpha will know for a fact that he/she has to earn respect. Just look at nature. Do you honestly think any of those alpha males got their position because someone just handed it to them? No! they fought for it, and fought hard. And earned the respect of their followers in the process.

        Likewise, they continue to have to prove themselves every day. Not just their strength, but their skills as a leader and ability to provide for the “herd”.

        Curtesy is given. Respect is 100% earned. If you believe you’re entitled to respect just by existing, then you are the wannabe alpha (aka – the omega whining that no one will hand him the alpha card)

        1. Milos

          In nature, the species in which males fight, they often end up forcing themselves sexually over females, ie. rape, so if you prefer that, I don’t know what to say about you.
          To give respect until it is broken is a better world I think, for your own good.

  8. 8

    Hmmm. I’ve dated a good number of betas, and I’m skeptical. All my betas have been pretty prompt and consistent about making plans to meet next time. I can only think of one occasion when one of them left me hanging for the weekend, and that was because he’d run into a tough family situation that he didn’t want to tell me about.
    Then again, my betas have all been grown men with children and one or two marriages, and a few relationships, under their belt. Maybe OP’s beta is a very young guy who really is too shy to ask her out. I still wouldn’t go as far as cooking him dinner. First of all, there’s a 90% chance that even a beta will get the wrong message that he is being invited to spend the night. But I do like the idea of inviting him out. Second, that’s way too much work for a guy who might not even be interested. I don’t know, to me cooking the guy a dinner this early in the game just screams “trying too hard”. Who wants to send this message, right? My advice is, find an activity that you both like to do, something happening in your area this weekend – a concert, a show etc. – and invite him to attend together.

  9. 9
    Lady Z

    I married a guy like this and I am miserable. But hey, you know the Alphas aren’t marriage material for women who are 4-5 on the SMV scale like myself. It’s settling for Mr.Good enough, when you’re not hot enough. But I would give ANYTHING to be with a take-change man. I’m just not on thier radar. Its a fact that Alpha female and ugly female share.

    1. 9.1

      If you’re miserable chick then change it!! Life’s too short to be unhappy. Start with your confidence… don’t call yourself ugly… we all have beauty inner or outter it’s just a case of letting it shine out. Don’t get too caught up in these definitions of men… at end of day be with someone you love and adore and its reciprocated… suggest you try Paul McKenna’s Instant Confidence

    2. 9.2

      Did you just call yourself ugly? If you feel like you’re ugly, then change it sister! 🙂

      Do something about it, I know it’s not easy, but I’ve been suffering with chronic pain in my feet for 20 years now and I’m FINALLY doing something about it, because enough is enough!

      God Bless Lady Z.

      1. 9.2.1

        Tim, as someone who can date about anyone I want (and have), I have to say you have things very backwards. You can chase, you can take a girls phone and put your number in it, you can be yourself, as with anything: there’s a balance. Confidence gives you power. Waiting to have sex and not even trying gives you power. It seems like you aren’t grasping the concepts from your life coach. It’s coming out in your words. Or you are using someone who has strong bias where they shouldn’t. A good life coach wants you to make working choices, not for you to follow his ideals. You can play games and make a mate “wonder” where she stands, which will temporarily give you some power, but in the end you will need to play games forever to keep her. Or you can be a confident you, meet her personal and practical needs, and wait a bit. She will love you unconditionally because you did the one thing no one else ever has: made her needs a priority consistently and without expectations.

    3. 9.3

      There are no ugly women, only lazy ones.

  10. 10

    I don’t buy this Alpha/Beta theory which I believe in based on research on wolves is captivity.
    I do believe that you have more masculine energy and he is being passive. So yes you need to reverse the energy. However this only works if you when you start to be the passive one that you express how you feel and what you want and then give him chance to step up into the masculine role. For eg, this would be next time he texted to say, ” I am starting to feel disconnected from you with only seeng you x amount of times a week and   I feel more connected to people when I see them in the flesh and blood on a regular basis and want to feel closer and more connected, what do you think we can do about this?” And see what he suggests and does. If he doesn’ want to step up, resolve the issue you will get bored and not want him. As he can’t meet your needs. As long as you do not revert to stepping up into the masculine role. Unless you are happy with role reversal.This can work for some. What do you want? Or ignore your needs.

    1. 10.1

      I’m not going to tell you or force you to believe in something, HOWEVER, it’s NOT a theory, it’s a FACT, for example, as my life coach likes to say, ‘it’s been scientifically proven that women are more attracted to men who’s feelings are unclear’.

      Saying something like ‘research based on wolves in captivity’ is a pretty IGNORANT thing to say. Do some research of your own first before you say something that makes you look like you don’t know anything.

      However, everything else you said is spot on. Good job.

      God bless Rose 🙂

      1. 10.1.1

        Is your name Corey Wayne? you sound exactly like him. If you’re not then go check him out he has nothing but very crap advice for men and you certainly sound like him.

    2. 10.2

      alpha/beta simply means leader/take charge or follower. Every person is either or, and some can swing a little in either direction. It is basically a matter of dominance, if you prefer that term. Some people are naturally way more dominant than others.

      I believe it is absolutely true. I’m 100% alpha (not to be mistaken with bitchy or men hating feminist). I naturally take charge. I think a lot of it has to do with natural testosterone levels.

      For example, I work with horses on a daily basis. They do have a tendency to push people around if they know they can get away with it. If you think there are no alphas or betas (or less), observe people in a group of horses and see who ends up in charge, and who ends up down the line of command.

      No matter how aggressive the animal, my natural instinct is to get in there, and put it in its place. I’m in charge, and I won’t let them forget it. Just like I would never hesitate to show them affection when they behave well. But to think that any other human would do the same is ridiculous. It’s what separates the alpha personalities from the betas or less.

      In case of emergencies or whenever decisions need to   be make, the owners instantly refer to me. Not because they all have less experience, but because they prefer to leave the hard decisions to others (alphas they trust).

      It certainly is a very real thing, even in humans.

  11. 11

    Because I just can’t resist.  
    M in #5 with the genders reversed:
    So …   gal gets dinner and the company of her lovely bf.   He has to call her up & invite her, make the plans, buy the groceries, plan the meal, make the whole thing (three courses at least, I’m sure), find the time to decorate both the house and himself, and charm her all evening …?
    I hope gal brings at minimum her best behavior, some thanks for the excellent meal, and two bottles of his favorite wine.   Oh — and an oxygen mask.  

    It wouldn’t hurt if she threw something into the $$ pot for the groceries either.   It’s not just working women who are feeling the effects of the recession.   Working men feel it too.
    Anybody else feel like emotional, not to mention concrete, reciprocity in relationships is not just slipping, but being actively shoved, through the cracks of what we continue to call modern society …?
    I certainly don’t get the idea that reciprocity is being actively shoved through the cracks. /sarcasm

  12. 12

    I just posted on another thread that I don’t believe the whole alpha/beta male thing anyway. Most people are too complex for that and are a mix of various traits. I’ve dated men who had what could be considered “beta” qualities, and they were still very proactive in the dating realm if they were truly interested.
    After a month and a half, I feel that waiting 5-7 days to make plans might be a sign of lukewarm interest or passivity. And I agree with Goldie, better to find an activity that you both would enjoy, and invite him.

    1. 12.1

      I think what you’re trying to say is, you’ve dated men that weren’t really that into you.

      God bless Ruby 🙂

      1. 12.1.1

        What, so if ‘beta males’ (i hate this term) were truly into you, they would be scared to ask you out. If a beta male had no problem with they, he’s considers you average. This is complicated sh+t! You guys. 😭 😂

  13. 13
    Braind Ed

    I am a guy. I cannot be categorized like this. I am a little confused because, though I know about these categorizations of alpha beta omega etc., I see now how society simply categorizes  men like a meat market. Thats all well and good because I’d rather not be categorized. and as a wise man said “Once you label me, you negate me” Perfect! The thing is that I am an alpha when it comes to many other things. Being an alpha male can be learned btw. What most women call beta is simply ignorance as far as inter-personal skills are concerned and the place society wants you to be categorized. And what we were taught since we were little boys. And how Alpha traits are bad, that’s what I learned. I really don’t care if I’ve lost the best years of my love life because of ignorance.

    1. 13.1

      It’s simply a matter of where you rank in the natural chain of dominance. Are you more assertive naturally, preferring to make the decisions and taking on the responsibility of caring for those who trust you, or would you not mind leaving the hard decisions to others? Do you naturally take charge, or do you follow others? Will you readily defend your opinion, even when faced with 100 people who think the opposite? Or will you chose to stay quiet?

      The whole alpha male thing got a bad reputation when every a..hole out there was excusing their bad behavior by calling themselves alpha. Alphas are simply great leaders who make decisions to benefit others, no matter how tough those decisions might be. They carry tremendous responsibility, and are not afraid to assert their dominance if needed (in order to protect, etc.)

      They do not bully those weaker then them, but they most definitely protect them.

      I personally think betas are the best men. Strong in their masculine energy, but not overpoweringly so, like many alphas can be. What many women (and men) refer to here as betas are actually men who would rank much lower in the dominance scale in a group situation. Men who are mostly in a feminine energy, and as such prefer their partners (women or men) to be in charge of day-to-day decisions.

      It all comes down to the play of masculine and feminine energies. Too far in either direction is not necessarily a good thing.


      1. 13.1.1
        Robert Wilson

        Be careful with this “It’s simply a matter of where you rank in the natural chain of dominance. Are you more assertive naturally, preferring to make the decisions and taking on the responsibility of caring for those who trust you, or would you not mind leaving the hard decisions to others? Do you naturally take charge, or do you follow others? Will you readily defend your opinion, even when faced with 100 people who think the opposite? Or will you chose to stay quiet?”

        I am responsibility averse, but don’t hesitate to defend my positions in arguments.

        I prefer to lead only myself and defer the responsibility of others to soneone else.

        I don’t like following others for no reason, I only do that begrudgingly in a bind where I am unable to fend for myself — in other words I fake it in order to be manipulative, then leave once I don’t need to be in that situation anymore.

        So I don’t think that makes me alpha.   But I’m not beta either.

        Very selectively I’ll desire responsibility,   but I only take responsibility for others if I think they’re unicorns and are really special.   Most of the time I frolick through life half-asleep and mostly unfazed, but its probably because I have not put myself in social circles of people that I’d take seriously.

        It’s a catch 22.   But I normally do ‘good enough’ for myself and slip out of the public eye.

    2. 13.2

      I agree that this alpha/beta thing is an oversimplification.

      I think all men can show alpha and beta qualities and traits which don’t seem to fit into either category, just depending on the situation. For example, it could depend on which group of guys he is with at the time, what activity they are doing or simply how he feels that day.

      In terms of how different guys treat women. The only thing that I’ve noticed is that different guys view women in different ways. For example, some guys are completely unselective and will literally fuck any woman they can get their hands on. They can come across as alpha because they have a lot of experience with women, even though most of those women are boring or ugly. On the other hand you have guys who are selective about looks but don’t care less about personality etc.

      In terms of guys who allegedly ‘put women on pedestals’. That can also mean lots of different things. It could mean that the guy is looking for a girl with very similar interests and personality or that he has very specific tastes in looks. This means when he finds a girl who matches his criteria, he gets a sense that it’s quite rare, and thus he views the girl as special and is nervous or overly disappointed after rejection.

      On the other hand, it’s possible that a guy has not much experience with women and so _assumes_ that the girl he’s found is special, even though there are plenty of other women with the same qualities.

      One thing I’ve definitely noticed is that some so called ‘betas’ can be 100% unselective, whilst others are very fussy. They feel like they’re almost opposites categorically.

      Another point, how do you classify a guy who spends most of his time alone. I.e. he doesn’t lead but also refuses to follow?

      1. 13.2.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        I classify him as “alone.”

  14. 14
    David T

    He’s not interested in going out much; whether that means he is not interested in you as his dating partner is a different question entirely.  
    You get together a bunch, you always respond to his communication, so if he is interested in doing something with you he will ask because he knows what the answer will be.   Maybe he just doesn’t plan things in any part of his life, or he is content and happy to be on his own most of the time.   Ask him directly during the nice dinner you are going to make for him, perhaps along the lines of “I enjoy hanging out with you but we only see each other once a week and I would enjoy more time together.   Would you like to do more activities together on the weekends?   It’s OK if you want that alone time. I can do things with my friends on my own.”
    Depending the answer you decide if this is a relationship that works for you.   It could be a daily friendly text message and once a week companionship is his relationship ideal.
    I have been described by some women as more beta, but dang, I   never hesitated to ask a woman out and give a kiss or start affectionate touching on the first date or two (when it feels right) because I want that.   Is that an alpha-beta thing or just a making your own wants happen thing? I think the OP’s dating partner is doing something else with his time.
    I also don’t mind when a woman make a plan to do something they want us to do together or they ask me out.   It usually exposes me to something I wouldn’t have thought of on my own and adventures are fun. 🙂

  15. 15

    This could not have come at a more perfect time. I am dating a “beta,” I guess, for the past 2 months, and I have been making myself nuts trying to sit back and let him lead – but this weekend, where I took the initiative a bit more in terms of future plans, he definitely responded in a positive way – which made me feel way more at ease about the situation.
    Anyways, I actually think cooking dinner is a great idea for a few reasons 1) If you can cook together, its a fun activity that allows you to get to know the person in a casual and less formal  setting and 2) I notice  a lot of  guys really appreciate it when a girl goes a little out of her way for them – since many  men tire  of having to go through all the early and potentially expensive stages of courting without much of a guarantee that the girl is even interested ( I don’t mean sex – but who wants to shell out $100 for dinner that might not even lead to a second date?). I have cooked a few meals with (notice I said with and not for)  the guy I am seeing and so far it has allowed us to get to know each other, because it’s a team effort and is more private than eating at a restaurant – which can get mundane. Also, both of us actually enjoy cooking, and since I am a neat-freak, I have no problem cleaning up after, which he definitely appreciated.

  16. 16

    I’m with Goldie on this one.
    If a man has been dating you for close to 2 months, and you’ve been very receptive to his asking you out and you’ve given him plenty of other signals that you’re interested in him and enjoy his company, then he should know by now that you’re not going to randomly turn him down if he asks you out again. Even if he is a so-called beta male.
    I would not offer to make him dinner (or dinner-bed-and-breakfast). That’s doing way, way, way too much of the heavy lifting at this stage of the game. I would suggest that you find some activity or event that you want to attend (and would attend solo in the absence of a date) and call & ask him if he’d like to join you. If he says yes, that’s great. If he says no, then you can attend solo & still have a good time.
    If he attends & enjoys your company, then he should be savvy enough to return the favor & ask you out for a future date – without too many heavy hints or overt prompting from you.
    When push comes to shove, even if a guy is a beta male, he can’t expect you to do all the asking. If he really wants to see you more than once every 7 days – especially if you’ve expressed interest in seeing him more than once every 7 days – then he will find a way to make it happen.
    And if he doesn’t, then you have your answer – and need to cut him loose and find some one who does want to spend time with you more than once a week, and who’s not scared to show it.

  17. 17

    P.S. “Getting To I Do” by Dr Pat Allen has some very good info on the masculine-feminine dynamic in a relationship, and how to go about things when you (as a woman) are the more “masculine energy” partner in the relationship.

  18. 18

    When I suggest we go out, my boyfriend always asks where I would like to go. AGH!  Some peeps are like that and as “faults” go it’s quite minor.   He’s loyal, kind and funny, but he won’t be surprising me with tickets to Paris. Just as well, I don’t like Paris.
    If it makes you feel better, think of it as co piloting rather than taking the lead.

  19. 19

    I got Evans   “Why he Disappeared” book and loved it!!
    Another book I love is by Ali Binazir who wrote the Tao of Dating   He might describe this guy as a guy with a heart and no spine.  
    I think a guy who has a lot of feminine energy,( who is more passive indecisive and lacks initiative) is probably ideally paired with a woman with a lot of masculine energy.
    For a woman though who is more in her feminine, this sort of guy may bring a flatness of passion and lack of sexual polarity.     
    I like Binazirs description of heart and spine in men. Ive met jerks with no compassion who are very masculine (No heart but spine). Also have met a kind loving guy who has a great heart but lacks a life purpose and direction(spine) Im on the lookout for someone with both!
    This guy sounds so passive that I would definitely want some sort of confirmation that hes actually interested  

  20. 20

    Seems nuts to me and overfuctioning to invite him anywhere and cook him dinner if you want to motivate and inspire him to step up. All that will do is reinforce his passive feminine behavior and not motiavte hmi to want to step up and become a man. Sounds crazy bf can’t be bothered to invite to do anything so I will chase him and reward him treating me like that by offferig to cook him dinner. Where’s the natural consequense for not making plans if you do this? Be less availablle and take yourself where you want you go. Unless you want to be the one doing the invuting, being the social director, over fucntioning and taking the lead always as that is what you will set yourself up for and being the man. Do you really want a a realtionship like that?

    1. 20.1

      I agree with u Rose. All of that is overfunctioning and being the social director of the relationship according to a popular dating coach. All of that is chasing. I made a mistake of being the social director of the last relationship I was in and u know what happened-he disappeared. That’s right. After that I subscribed to a dating coach newsletters and got the shock of my life when I read one of her newsletters which defined that many of the activities I was doing was chasing and I was being the social director of the relationship. That was a lesson for me, I tell u. Never again. Any guy who I am involved with will have to play the masculine role so I can be sure of his interest in me.

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