My Fiancé Has Money and Treats Me Well, But He’s Soooo Cheap! What Should I Do?
Evan, what should I do?
I am engaged to a guy who I have been dating for 4.5 years. I love him but I have so much anger and resentment towards him. He is a good person and we have a great time together and I enjoy his company/companionship. He always is happy to see me and be with me. We have a lot in common, but I feel we have some major core differences. He is extremely selfish. He is wealthy and I think this has affected his outlook on money. I am very generous with a big heart, but I find that I am always disappointed. I don’t expect to be spoiled by someone, but he spends a lot of money on his (our) house, cars, gambling when he can, but if I need $200 to go to the store, he makes me feel awkward and here we are supposed to be getting married in December. All our finances are separate, I would be fine even with a pre-nup which I know is coming, but I am not fine with having a husband who puts himself that far above me because of his money. I do expect my husband to help with car payments, medical insurance, basic stuff, I am not even talking about shopping and material things, and this is a guy who is a multi-millionaire, and I made $100k up until last year because of the economy and now until I do something else, am only making about 45k. I am worried about marrying someone who would watch me struggle and not offer to help or was that spoiled that he doesn’t have the “right” consideration for me. HELP!
Lara
You know what they say about rich guys, right? The reason they’re rich is because they don’t spend any of their money
Dear Lara,
You know what they say about rich guys, right? The reason they’re rich is because they don’t spend any of their money! Ha! I kill me.
So first of all, let’s get one thing out of the way first: he’s definitely selfish. There are plenty of people who have issues around money – including yours truly – but your multi-millionaire takes the very expensive wedding cake.
As I’ve said before, many women don’t appreciate the difference between being cheap and being poor. If he makes less than $50,000, pretty much ANYTHING he does for you is generous. However, your guy isn’t poor. He’s rich, and yet you don’t feel he is generous of spirit. That really sucks when you’re facing a lifetime together.
But if you’ve been seeing him for 4 ½ years, I suspect you knew about this trait all along, but dealt with it as just one compromise you had to make in the relationship. It didn’t suddenly surface out of the blue. “He USED to throw me $10,000 birthday parties, but now he only has the Pizza Hut staff put a candle in my calzone!”
I’m not going to defend his penurious ways, and I’m not going to suggest that you don’t have the right to be frustrated. I am, however, going to try to look at the other side – something that you may not have done yet.
So let’s recap: you love him, he’s a good person, he’s super-wealthy, you have a lot in common, you have a great time together, he’s happy to be with you, and you’re engaged to be married in December. Sounds like a promising start, no?
But there’s this one thing – this big thing – you don’t get out of him. It’s a definite character flaw: no generosity. Yet he probably pays for the bulk of the house, car payments, medical payments, vacations, etc. He’ll buy you things and provide a nice life. The only thing he doesn’t want to pay for is you, spending the money that he earned. And since you’re now making less, you expect him to make up the difference.
At least that’s HIS perspective.
I think two things: he’s genuinely cheap, and he genuinely loves you.
Your perspective is that it’s not his money, it’s your money – together. And even though you have everything you want in your life, you can’t get over the fact that he’s so stingy that he won’t let you spend what he considers “his” money. In your mind, it’s not about the money, it’s about the principle! I hear you, and I’m sure a number of readers do, too.
The real sticking point is that his take on “his money vs. your money” is not changing any time soon. It’s deeply ingrained in him. Which gives you two choices: leave him because you feel like you can’t spend your life with a rich man who is cheap, or stick around and appreciate that you have a super life, filled with love, companionship, fun, and tons of material possessions – but your husband is simply a skinflint.
Life is about tradeoffs, y’know?
I also think you may be equating his lack of generosity with a lack of love. He can provide for you in 100 different ways, but because he’s hesitant to give you $200 to go to the store, he doesn’t truly love you. Do you believe that? I don’t. I think two things: he’s genuinely cheap, and he genuinely loves you. If he didn’t love you, he wouldn’t be marrying you. In his mind, he just doesn’t want his wealth to be taken for granted.
Just the other day I was talking with a semi-successful guy – not a millionaire – who took care of his girlfriend when she was unemployed and couldn’t afford to pay rent. The problem arose when, one year later, she STILL didn’t want to pay rent because “he could afford it”. Ironically, the same way that she feels that “it’s not about money, it’s about principle”, so does he. You think he should pay for you because he can. He doesn’t want to pay for you because you assume he’s supposed to.
Another thing: your boyfriend may be cheap, but I’d have to guess he’s better than the rich guys who equate money with love. Their theory is: “If I buy you a Jaguar, maybe you won’t notice how emotionally distant and abusive I am!” These type of wealthy men make the worst husbands because they think that they can buy your affection and don’t have to actually, y’know, listen to you.
All of this begs the unfortunate and delicate question: is it possible that you take your boyfriend’s money for granted? Maybe just a little? After all, you may have taken a pay cut, but you probably still live in a big house with a nice car and have everything you need. So while I’m not going to defend your fiancées behavior – cheap is not cool – I’d have to ask you one really tough question:
Would you be marrying him if HE made $45,000?
And, if not, are you also equating love with money?
It’s not that I’m not sympathetic to your plight, Lara, but it’s my responsibility to point out the side of things that you may not have already considered. Please let me know what you choose to do.
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It kind of makes me wonder if there’s been a conversation between the two of them about this issue, or has she let this fester and ferment all these years.
If nothing is said, how would he know anything is wrong?
I agree with Mr. Right. I think there is not enough information given by her to make a proper judgment in this case. This issue could be a simply misunderstanding in her part in interpreting his actions or that he really just does care about himself, or a little bit of both.
It would be helpful if she would give an example of their communication together.
In either case what makes this worse is her feelings of resentment and anger because as long as those feelings are clouding her judgment no matter how she will approach the situation she is most likely going to end up feeling like he is just selfish further validating her beliefs, which may be erroneous from the begin with.
.-= Mikko Kemppe´s last blog ..Feeling Guilty For Making a Mistake? Feeling Used or Unworthy of Love? =-.
Why is it that when women assert themselves they are “angry and resentful” but when a man asserts himself it is because they are “powerful.” Give me a break. I appreciate the comment but literally NOT ONE WOMAN I KNOW would get fuzzy feelings when they are told they are with someone because of money. As a matter of fact that is the very least of it.
Mrs. Wife asked:
“Why is it that when women assert themselves they are ‘angry and resentful’?”
Lara said: (original letter)
“I love him but I have so much anger and resentment towards him.”
Perhaps because Lara actually said that she had anger and resentment toward her fiancee.
Are you suggesting that Lara doesn’t know how she feels?
In my case I will be leaving him because his cheapness is endangering my health and well being. My cheap husband was occasionally turning off the heat and I live in a cold state. Not anymore. I stood up for my rights. It is a pain in the a#$ to have to buy things only at a certain time. I don’t get anymore than anyone else, it just appears so because I get anything at all and most people spend everything they have. Then because I got something, it may be like “OH, what a spoiled b*(^&. I waited 5 or years of saving to get some things.
All I’m saying is that women are judged more harshly than men, in light of the same accomplishments. They make people jealous when they are educated and good looking and judged as being stupid if they are even somewhat attractive. I personally feel like the woman has just as much responsibility as the man in the way of earning money and housekeeping, but my man is cheap. I will be moving on because of this. Lucky I own my car and my medical sucks, so I’ll be finding a job with medical I hope. Live in a rural area, married, and before that married and moving around the country w/ husband. But, always managed to find full time employment everywhere but Cali and Connecticut, two of the roughest states I’ve ever seen. People are moving out in droves. You just can’t depend on a husband nowadays. I learned this long ago, thus I have only been able to get a string of retail jobs due to my location and being with him.
I am so tired of making something of myself to earn a decent living and being put down by my husband’s sister, who is jealous of me. It’s fricking ridiculous. I take college classes, earned my degrees, got accepted to a nursing school, and had to quit due to exhaustion. I have definitely had it. People need to be accepting that their friends may be married and that the young wife needs a job b/c of the husbands cheapness. I am in the same boat. My husband makes good money from home, but only when he has a contract. when he is not working outside at this farm, he is working inside at his computer. Meanwhile I work just as hard as he does with nursing school and I have no support whatsoever. now that I had to quit due to exhaustion I am f&*^$%. The girls in nursing school were less than respectable pieces of work and put me down every day for being thin and attractive and smart, unlike them.
This woman probably wrote this here because her fiance is unattentive to her feelings and belittled for bringing to light to him that she has needs. Thus, its an healthy outlet for that. It is not her fault he is frugal and she needs to either find another job or move on. She’s not married yet ! Then, It may be too late.
Wow, thank you. Jesus I thought these were only computers responding to the comments. That entire situation sounds like a bunch of bullshit & im not about to put frosting on anything.. oh. My . God. Poor lady probably is reading all these condescending comments and she’s feeling like a dumbass bitch. Guess what? Your not! One million percent, bottom line, you deserve & will with no doubt find another who will appreciate & cherish you for who you are ‘ what you make financially & knowlingly want to support you if that’s that man you desire. Don’t move forward with this man. It will only get worse, you may truly love him but they can be very selfish..
Major red flags here, folks.
Yes, he spends money on the house and cars and gambling – but those are his “pet things” and projects/activities.
Note that when it comes to something that she wants which is just for herself, one of her “pet things” or activities, he won’t part with a dime. Hello, Houston, we have a problem here…. This is a huge signal/message that it is all about him and, when push comes to shove, her individual needs are very much secondary.
By the way – has the pre-nup been discussed yet????
If not, better have that discussion ASAP. Because then you will see the true and complete picture re: his attitude to money and what he will or won’t share.
You got it right, Robyn! After marriage it will only get worse. If he doesn’t love me enough to care for me why should I even think about marrying him?
I’d be interested in learning more about the “cheap” behaviors—
When SK and her finacee go out for dinner, does he pay most of the time? Or do they split the bill? Does he pay for vacations? Air tickets? Buying you a small gift on your birthday? I think if he does those things frequently, and he’s also bought a house that you both live in now, then his behaviors are understandable.
I don’t think it’s fair to require him to pay for your car payments, give you money to a bookstore or buy expensive clothes and purses…
I agree – why does Lara need $200 to go to the store? What is she buying? Is it the weekly grocery shopping, or is she spending on herself? Sounds like the latter to me. And if it’s the former, then this is one more thing that he is paying for.
I’d be curious to know what Lara pays for in the relationship… anything? Just because he’s rich, why should he have to take one his fiance` as a dependent, if she’s capable of earning her own money.
She works? she needs to buy her own stuff, for her hobbies, just like he/s buying his own stuff for his hobbies, why do women feel entitled to a mans resources? what the hell?!!
Interesting letter and great comments Evan.
I’m a $50,000 a year guy and girlfriends have called me cheap too, yet I always feel that I am misunderstood. Yes, I have a reluctance to spend more than $35 on a dinner, I hate spending $10 on a cocktail, and flying to the other coast for a weekend seems extravagant to me, but it’s not like I’m spending the money on myself. My personal spending is limited and all my savings will one day benefit my wife and me in the form of a smaller mortgage, cash purchases for our cars, summer camp for the kids etc.
Maybe some people will still consider me cheap, but I just consider what I’m doing to be deferred spending.
If your girlfriend is not your fiance (future wife) then your saying to her “I’m saving for my future wife and kids” is not exactly heart-warming. It almost verges on a slap in the face.
I’m all for deferred spending, but doubt I’d be interested in a guy too cheap to spring for a cocktail.
I’m curious, what kind of dates do you create?
Do you explain to the women your deferred spending plan and the reason for it?
My boyfriend does exactly this: explains that he saves all his life in order to buy an apartment and “I’m not a restaurant guy. There’s a lot of food at home, and I can cook for you”.
I work a lot and my financial situation is a lot worse then his. He quit his job recently, doesn’t work and planning not to work for a year. He says he’s tired. On my question how he’d be able not to work he answered that he’d spend a little from his savings. He expects us to go dutch all the time, and we only drink beer in bars or eat something really cheap.
He’s a good guy and speaks about the future and family, but this aspect of his character not only not sexy but also frightens me. Future with him frightens me.
it’s so weird we know that it frustrates, we don’t like it, but we are still with them… I ask this question to myself all the time and than I am like… would’ve he stayed with me if I would openly and obviously make him to feel like that and just bluntly tell what my intentions are ( meaning it’s kind of I’m being selfish) and expect him just accept it and leave it… I don’t think any man would accept any discomfort that would come from their woman for longer than couple of months or in rare, rare cases… couple of years.
The basic problem is to assume than men have to pay for girls. You are equal than men right? I wouldn’t pay every meal of my friends, and if my friend want to go dinner in expensive restaurants can go by himself and waste all the money he earned.
Double standars in your head.
I bet, a women will dump 100 times, a man who earn less than her, and if he asks for $200 to go shopping.
“I don’t see what is he putting in the table” Modern western women are crap. Fortunately there are only 350 million in all the planet (yes, canada, USA, UK, AUS, and 2 countries in europe)
Too much entitlement.
ummmmm, disaster.
leave this guy asap it’s not funny he’s obviously using you. Sorry you don’t see that. A real man would never let his woman support him. I mean if your confused, a real man would never let His woman support him unless they have been married for years & years & years…:
Iagree with you I am in the same money bracket as you.
I know how she feels. It’s a feeling that won’t go away. Maybe life isn’t fair? I’m dating a multimillionaire. He doesn’t have to work, lives in a beautiful home, drives fancy cars and can afford to pay cash for his children’s education. I on the other hand work my butt off, raise three kids on my own, going to school and can’t afford to pay my rent and half the time fees my kids.
These same girls that call you cheap spend less paying for dinners/dates than you so really the woman are the cheap ones.. Just laugh at them when they say youre cheap.
Unfortunately American society has screwed most women these days (and men) into consumerism. Always make the test what a woman thinks she is entitled to. 10usd cocktails? 50 usd dinner? Does she picks up the bill every second time? Does she want a big car and not a “cheap” one? If so, dump her, you are better off alone. Safe the money and start your early retirement account.
Looks like men these days forgot what being man really means… The real, loving, caring man would never make his woman (girl, fiancé or wife) feel the way Lara does, or the rest of the woman who ever feel this way or question their relationships because of these issues.
You know why? Because that man who uses that woman’s heart and body, especially those who promise a big future together, true commitment and even give rings and set up wedding date… will just do anything and everything for their loved ones in their own budget limits of course and the woman who would feel that the man cares about her as much as he cares about himself will never have to second guess, doubt or question… We love our kids right so, so, so much… that is a true an unconditional love… so when they need something and we only have let’s say $ 20.00 and need a pair of pants or skirt or whatever for ourselves so desperately… what would we do? The answer is simple… we just sacrifice… we take care of the needs of those who are the dearest to our hearts right? So if the man loves his partner unconditionally… believe me… there won’t be any spots left to be questioned, because he will not leave any spaces empty and if anything he will be there to understand and to take care of ( again… as much as he can, depending on his earnings and savings.
And a simple advise to those who count pennies at the restaurants when they are out with a woman… If you are REALLY SAVING for your future than please sit home with your pets, cook and please yourselves… because if you won’t another human being to please you and even pay for your meals at the restaurants than when it is your turn to pay make sure you have enough before you AS A MAN take a woman out to date and before you relieve that yes, you are being cheap. If you are good for you… save and be cheap and spend only on yourself, but remember… YOU MUST be by yourself and not get offended if a woman calls you a CHEAP after witnessing your cheap actions while you are out with her…
Frank,
yes, you don’t want a woman who thinks she should entitled to things definitely not. What the issue is here is that a woman that loves a man feels like since she only makes 45k when her partner makes 4 times as much doesn’t help out as much as he could. If they have been dating over 4 years yes they should’ve talked about this issue and financial situations at hand. It’s difficult to understand as a man this situation if the female makes 45k & the man makes 3-4 times as much in my situation I spend money one food, cooking all meals stocking shelves, fridge etc. any house hold goods maybe $400 & more on groceries & house hold items a month that’s needed. While cooking & cleaning & running my own business doing facials making only on average $2500 a month if lucky only been in business one year… but it’s okay for me to do laundry, walk dogs, clean the hous, cook all meals, work on my business & more for my bf who makes over $100 k a year & cant ” afford to take me on vacation??” Guess your not in a serious relationship
We all know that money is fraught with all types of emotions and feelings, some practical and rational and most not. He is not going to change on this point any time soon. If you can’t see yourself being happy with this guy when he is *exactly* the same with money 10 years from now, don’t get married. If the prospect of losing you makes him want to consider trying to make changes, cool. If the prospect of losing him makes you want to consider trying to make changes, cool. But attitudes about money (or anything really) are very hard to change unless people truly feel driven to, and nothing will improve between the two of you unless someone changes.
Life is too long to live with your teeth set on edge. Whatever you do, make sure you don’t put yourself in a situation where you have to learn that the hard way.
Completely agreed, Jennifer.
I completely agree with you Jennifer. I married a man who has the same attitude about money and it only got extremely worse when we got married; the issue of stinginess became exposed in the light of marriage because marriage is a sacred institution of unity, oneness, sacrifice, and wanting the best for each other AND stinginess is its complete opposite. Soundness is not accomplished with a stingy spouse unless that spouse genuinely desires and DECIDES to change.
I don’t know whether this guy is selfish or not with his money, but one thing stood out to me, and really pissed me off: “…I do expect my husband to help with car payments, medical insurance, basic stuff, I am not even talking about shopping and material things…” (as if those material things were normal expectations, too!
Girl, we are living in the 21st century, and unless you are willing to do his laundry, make his bed, cook his meals, clean his house, bring him his slippers, and be his “woman”, what right do you have to expect anything but what you’ve already said he gives you? You’ve specifically stated that he treats you well, covers housing and car costs for both of you, is a good person and always is happy to see you and be with you…sheesh! What more do you really think you have a “right” to?!
How are we women supposed to truly break through that last mile of inequality in the workplace, when people like you are holding on to decades of antiquated thinking and feminine entitlement?
THINK EQUALITY.
Simone;
Next time you are in Washington D.C. I am buying you dinner!
Simone, I agree with most of what you say, bu I don’t see the workplace inequality point. Ava below mentioned the 72 cents vs. 1 buck for men.
I’m not trying to argue with either of you, but if the inequality mentioned is the same as Ava’s 72 cents point, the facts indicate you are not accurate. There have been several studies that debunk this myth (see Warren Farrell, or google the topic). The reality is that women do get paid for the same work as men and in some places (NYC, for example) actually get a bit more.
The differences occur in the choices that women make in the workplace that account for the difference. For example, well-paying dangerous occupations (think oil rig in the Gulf of Mex) are almost entirely men. Women often choose to leave the workforce to have children, often returning only part-time or in lower paying lower stress jobs.
Sure there is a difference in pay, but not due to some discrimination. It’s actually due to the choices women themselves make in the marketplace. If the facts indicated otherwise, my analysis would be different, but I try to let the known facts lead my conclusions, not just what I’ve heard.
If female labor costs 28% less than male labor, there would be almost no male labor.
Exactly
Michael, I call B.S. on this. Workplace diversity initiatives, hiring within “networks”, men possibly majoring in different fields than women (more math, business, and science), and many other factors contribute to the gender make up of many businesses. It doesn’t always boil down to hard economics.
Nisha you make no sense at all. You’re comparing what men and women make in different fields/jobs. That makes no sense at all. If you want true equality you compare how much someone makes by job. Who cares if men are in more science and math jobs that was their choice. If women dont pick those professions then oh well. But the same job there isnt a 28% gap. You arent going to get paid 100k to be an art teacher sorry…
this research has been prov3n wrong. the inequalit arises because women tend to take less demanding jobs that lets her be flexible with her time and how she accomplishes work. Look into research by Claudia Goldin.
Totally Simone, I completely agree. I strongly believe that women should go to college, get great jobs and / or start their OWN businesses and have their OWN shopping money. And NOT be dependent upon some man. Nothing wrong with being in a loving, healthy relationship, but by all means ladies have your OWN money.
Adam I understand. No money, no sex. NOT WORTH GIVING OUR PRECIOUS VAGINA without getting anything we want and that’s how precious it is….like…very precious…..U can’tell blame women for having a lil dignity
Lysel,
There is a word for women who trade money and gifts for sex. That word is whore.
Adam: shallow understanding.
Adam, why would you call a woman a name because sex was traded for gifts and money? What is the logic behind it?
What names should we call men when they trade money for beauty and youth?
“Whore” is simply a word used to shame women. It has absolutely no validity to who a woman is just because she trades sex for money. It’s a word that’s primarily meant to make women feel bad for no reason at all just so others can retain control over her choices to shame her and call her names.
AllHeart81:
You make a good point. Perhaps I was a little too harsh in using the word “whore.”
Honestly, I don’t care what a woman does with her own body. I certainly don’t care who or why she has sex with someone. What a woman does with her own body, provided she isn’t harming someone else, is her business.
If she wants to have sex with a man who is rich in exchange for money and both parties are aware of and OK with this transaction this doesn’t mean that she is the same as a whore standing on the corner.
Now having said all that, I believe in honesty. I am a fan of Alan Roger Currie, a relationship coach for men who recommends, among other things, that men are completely honest and upfront with women. He recommends that men not engage in all these stupid head games. If a man, really and truly is just interested in having casual sex with a woman, he should be completely upfront about this point. He shouldn’t hide this fact whatsoever. He shouldn’t pretend he wants to marry her or be in a relationship with her. And if that is what she wants, if she just wants a casual sex partner, well fine. If she doesn’t, that is fine also. It is HER choice.
I feel the same way when it comes to women. I don’t care if she is looking for some guy to pay her bills in exchange for sex. Just don’t pretend to be in love with the guy. Don’t tell him you love him or want a future with him if you don’t. If it is all about money, if it is all about him funding you and / or buying gifts for you, fine. Totally OK. Years ago, at a seminar for small businesses I met a truly stunning woman. Easily one of the top 20 hottest women I have ever met. And she was involved in this game. But she was honest about this fact with me and the men who were involved with her. So, who cares.
sorry I shouldn’t have said that what I mean is the men I have encountered are older and to me they are less thoughtful I’m paying for everything I don’t think it’s cool ! Sorry if I offended anyone out there ! This site is to help people not turn people against eachother
Jo,
You didn’t offend me. It is all cool. Men should definitely treasure their women. Without a doubt. I think we might be talking about apples and oranges. There is nothing wrong with a man showing a woman he loves her by taking her out to shows, driving her to nice restaurants, buying her flowers, etc. Women deserve to feel they are loved and treasured.
I just don’t believe in excessive giving. That is all. I wouldn’t buy a girlfriend a new car or a new house or pay her rent or something similar. That is my point. Yeah, show her you love her. But if you are paying her rent, buying her a new car or carrying out some other similar grand gesture, in the hope that she will have sex with you, you are wasting your money and time. If a woman truly loves you, she won’t require you to spend tons of money on her in exchange for affection.
One of my friends, years ago, was dating a girl who initially seemed like a very nice person. They started going out and went out for a while. Everything seemed to be progressing normally and she seemed to really like him. I was happy for them. Then one day they are in the back of his car after a romantic date and she starts demanding money from him to pay her rent. And she lived in LA, where rent for a one bedroom apartment can easily run $1500 – $2000. Later we found out that she never cared him at all, it was all about how she wanted her rent paid and thought he was rich (he wasn’t.) He dumped her.
I know of another guy who gave a woman several hundred dollars for the HOPE of a relationship with her. He had a huge crush on her and she was short that month. She shouldn’t have done this, but he was foolish for giving her the money. While it was technically a “loan,” who knows whether the money was paid back or not.
If a girl truly loves me, she is not going to expect or demand thousands of dollars in cash and gifts. If she is demanding these, in my book, we are in a transnational relationship.
This was my thought as well, especially considering she is still making 45k on a reduced salary. It might be tough to hear but it sounds to me like the OP is the one with money issues not the man…and perhaps he’s trying to point thus out but her perception is skewed. If he’s paying the majority of living costs already and she still needs grocery money where is that 45k being spent?
What you have so brightly neglected in your assessment Simone, is that marriage is a respected institution that once you are in you are entitled to position, money, and if your husband doesn’t care if you work, then Why would anyone else ???????????????????? Even wives can make a living if they want.
I met my boyfriend while I was studying (20 years old, he 31 then), he insisted I should quit my studies to be with him as his work is more important and we lived in different countries. I tried to continue but he would always appear in my workplace while I was doing my internship and keep on begging and promising me beautiful life etc. I was really in love and said yes!! Now 5 years later he is really wealthy. I have been doing everything for him to be happy at home, taking care of his laundry, cook, clean, take care of his child etc. He would buy collection cars, yacht and spend money while he doesn’t give me anything, I can buy food and some skincare products, but not even go buy clothes in GAP when I need, only if I ask. I can not work as we are living between 4 countries and normal job just didn’t work out for me. I still love him but I think its unfair, he knows I don’t have family if I want to leave and I feel he is using the situation, He doesn’t want to get married either. I am probably very screwed.
Like Simone, I think this woman is expecting far too much. She sounds like a gold-digger, frankly. So Evan, I’m not sure I’d be as certain as you are that the fiance has a character flaw of stinginess.
Maybe, she thinks spending too much on “Gambling” is a bad idea and she may make better use of money herself if she gets that money from her man. It looks to me that she thinks she can spend her man’s money better!
Has the OP ever been in a relationship with a man who earned significantly less then she did? If so, how was expenditure split?
I’m with Simone on this one. You both contribute toward housing, cars, etc, but if you want to do some personal spending then use your own $200 that you’ve worked for. Especially since the two of you aren’t married yet. But get the prenup done and discuss how you plan to handle finances when you’re married. If you can live with it happily, go on and get married. If not, don’t.
I think it’s a very bad idea to get married with someone with whom you can’t have an agreement, espacially over money. This things don’t change after marriage. If you cannot trust each other while you’re BF-GF end the relationship …
I’m sure if he were giving those 200 everytime ,you ll be finding other reason to complaint ,just because he’s millionaire you’ll feel it’s never giving you enough ,I think you should be gratefull and start being more proactive and make your own fortune ,and say hey here’s 200 so you go gambling that will give him so much good luck ,after all he’s paying all the basic’s ,I mean do you realize how ungrateful you are ,he s paying the basics…housing car payments etc…????
,and your still complaining ,Your either too good looking or make him very happy in bed ,but you have no clue life s not easy and a millionaire can loose it’s fortune If not
Carefully administrated.
What EMK says about rich people getting rich because they don’t want to spend money has some basis in reality. The most common car driven by those with very high incomes isn’t a luxury car, it’s a Toyota Corolla. Multi-millionaires aside, the reality is that women still make something like 72 cents to every dollar that men make.
When the LW says she needs “$200 to go to the store” does she mean to go clothes shopping or grocery shopping? On the other hand, I don’t see anything wrong with expecting a wealthy spouse to help cover car payments for a jointly-owned car, or medical insurance, especially when the wife-to-be is struggling.
Have they considered having a joint account for things like household expenses? Maybe he contributes 80% to this account and she contributes 20%, or whatever?
Maybe a few sessions with a coupes therapist to sort out these issues prior to the wedding are in order?
Ava;
That bit about Corollas is fascinating. Do you remember where you read it?
Steve — What Ava says about Corollas is technically inaccurate. The most common type of car driven by millionaires in the United States is the Ford F150. You would probably be interested to read The Millionaire Next Door, which examines, from a sheer statistical perspective, characteristics of millionaires in the US. Here is a link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206
Sara;
Thanks for the link! That book looks fascinating. At this point in my life I think I am going to get more wealth though I never will be wealthy. I think I will still enjoy reading that book. I’m not cheap, but I strive to be frugal. The difference between the two is that a cheap person avoids spending money as an end in itself. A frugal person tries to minimize spending money on things s/he will not appreciate on a lasting basis.
Getting back to dating and the topic, I like to be frugal with other expenses in my life so I can go on more enjoyable dates. I view positive experiences with people as being one of the things that will make me feel like I have lived my life. I don’t think people need to go on balloon rides for every date to generate a happy memory, but many modest shared pleasures can’t take place if one’s finances are too tight from sloppy spending habits.
Based on what I read on the Amazon page I have similar attitudes about money to some of those rich people. I don’t consider my car to be who I am ( go Honda Civics! ) and I don’t like living at the edge ( or beyond ) my means. That makes me a bit of an odd ball among the people in my life so I think at the least I will enjoy that book for a feeling of validation 🙂
I think you will still like the book. It’s a good personal finance book, and if anything, it’s anti-consumerism. Most of the characteristics of US millionaires are different that you might think. They tend to own their own businesses, have smaller houses, place emphasis on families, lead more frugal lives than you would expect – the type of people you don’t even realize have lots of money. They’re practical. Okay, this is way off topic so I’m going to stop now. I’m don’t want to come across as someone to whom lots of money is important (since I’m not at all that way), but I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who wasn’t financially responsible or had lots of credit card debt or something like that, and as a single woman, my own personal finances are important to me since I don’t expect someone to take care of me 🙂
Can’t remember for sure, Steve. But it have have been in the New York Times. The info was taken from a book called “The Millionaire Next Door”, Check out this link: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3139.html
“the reality is that women still make something like 72 cents to ever dollar that men make.”
*the reality is that this is because women take time off to have babies that men dont. Adjusted for seniority and experience, women’s salaries actually outperform those of similarly situated men.
penurious
I have not seen that word since college. My writing and vocabulary is getting worse as I get older, so I really appreciate someone who writes well.
Lara wrote
I am engaged to a guy who I have been dating for 4.5 years. I love him …
He is a good person and we have a great time together and I enjoy his company/companionship. He always is happy to see me and be with me. We have a lot in common
That is the LTR jackpot we all hope for and you have it. The only catch is that you as an adult have to be responsible for your own finances — which you would have to be responsible for anyway, whether or not you *had* that LTR jackpot.
Evan Wrote
I also think you may be equating his lack of generosity with a lack of love.
Bingo!
Evan Wrote
The real sticking point is that his take on his money vs. your money is not changing any time soon.
Tape that to your wall everybody.
Incompatible styles of handling money is one of the classic relationship busters and adults rarely change their money handling style. Expect religious conversions and late life circumcisions first.
Either you can live with his someone’s style of handling money or you can’t.
“Either you can live with someone’s style of handling money or you can’t.”
Yep.
And after 4.5 yrs. she knows what his style is.
He’s not going to change it, so evaluate marriage to him accordingly.
Useful thought experiment:
Reread Lara’s email to Evan, but imagine she is a man ( “Larry”? ) who is complaining about his wealthy fiance not being willing to give up more of her money to subsidize his finances.
Notice your reactions.
If you are a woman, imagine you are engaged to a man who is the love of your life, but he expects you to pay for things he *wants* ( not needs ) when his own income falls a bit short.
Notice your reactions.
It is the year 2009.
All adults, male or female, are expected to be responsible adults.
Unless of course you a member of the US government spending other people’s money 🙂
Hmmm lessee here.
Gems from the OP (in order they appeared).
“He is extremely selfish.”
“I am very generous with a big heart, but I find that I am always disappointed.”
– Notice the accusation (selfish) coupled with the unsubstantiated martyrdom (I’m generous). All I ask when I read this letter is WTF does she do that is generous in the slightest? Never hear a word of that though.
– Holy S*&t. She’s living in his house. Nice use of the ‘our’ in parens, though. We know where her mind is. I guess he’s selfish for allowing that too. Wonder what it’d cost for her to live comparably on her own dime… Oh that’s right, she can’t.
– Thing to remember is this is his fecking money. Not hers. He can spend it as he sees fit. And why is it that so often that guys with lots of $ who don’t want to give it away to women are ‘selfish’ yet women with money who won’t give it to guys are ‘prudent’ and ‘responsible’ with their finances? Hmmm
– I had an old uncle who once told me “Vino, always remember than when it comes to women the whole system is rigged so that you pay for it.” Sage advice.
– This dude should boot her out pronto.
Your uncle calls you Vino? I didn’t think that was your real name.
Lara said:
“if I need $200 to go to the store, he makes me feel awkward”
To echo the question that several people have asked: $200 to go to the store for what? Groceries? Clothes? Birthday presents for your best friend?
I’m guessing that he isn’t deliberately making you feel awkward just out of spite. He probably feels equally awkward when you’re asking him for money.
Let me reverse the situation and see if it makes sense. Let’s say you still have your $100k/yr job, and you’re engaged to a wonderful man who only earns $30k/yr. He’s reasonably responsible with his money, and he was able to support himself without assistance before you started dating.
Since you’re planning on getting married, your separate finances are about to become your joint finances, and that includes the spending he does just on himself. Maybe he likes to spend $500/month on comic books. Maybe he spends $400/month on fencing lessons. Maybe he likes expensive cigars. Suddenly you’re in a situation where he might be wasting your (collective) money on purchases that you would never make.
But I’m sure your situation is different, right? The hypothetical boyfriend doesn’t need comic books. You need shoes (or something similar). Shoes are a genuine necessity.
Try explaining to a man why you need to spend $100-$200 per month on new shoes … when he can wear the same $50 pair for two years. To us, your shoes (after the first couple pairs) seem as frivolous as comic books or fencing lessons.
For this reason, I think it’s sensible for couples to keep a certain amount of their money as separate personal funds. That way you only need to agree on how much you each get for personal use. After that you no longer need to worry about how your partner is spending his personal money, and he no longer needs to worry about how you’re spending spending your personal money. And your (collective) money can be spend on sensible items that you both benefit from.
Amen Karl.
Agree. Everyone should have “personal money” they can spend without having to defend their choices.
I’m sticking up for the guy on this one. Sounds to me like he needs the assurance that you are with him for who is is alone, not for what he can provide. You already live together and have a nice home, etc. Anybody with that much will probably always be insecure about it. He needs to know that you WOULD be with him if he made only $45K, which is why he doesn’t shell over money anytime you need it. I once dated a very wealthy man who was also my best friend. We dined in the nicest restaurants and traveled some, all paid for by him. But he would not buy me gifts, or very nominal ones, because he did not want it to be about the money. I thought that was very wise, because you know what? I would have gotten spoiled and expected it….
I absolutely agree. I once dated a very wealthy guy too and he was the same as yours. In fact, when I first met him he would come to pick me up in an ugly little car, it was only after our fourth date that he came up with his brand-new convertible. My reaction was “Whoa. Who’s car is this?”.
He started to show his money litlle by little, as he got to know me. We ended up in a 9-month relationship in which he spoiled me taking me to the most amazing, expensive restaurants..and on trips all over the continent. But he never bought me anything in stores, it was all paid by me (jewelry, clothing, beauty products, etc), and despite I was just an intern at the time, I used to pay for some dates too (movies, dinners in cheap restaurants ). I never asked for money. He ended up falling in love with me because he felt I was with him for who he was, and wanted to marry me, to buy me the beach house of my dreams, he wanted me to quit my job and start my own NGO.. FUNNY THING IS, I left him because I wasn’t in love with him, and it doesn’t matter how good and luxurious the life he could provide me was..I could never marry someone I didn’t truly love.
I am wondering what other women thought of your post.
I also could not marry someone I truly didn’t love. I know that a lot of people view marriage as a business decision. But for all the dining and traveling, I think a simple, personal gift would have spoken volumes more. He was entertaining himself as well when he paid for the red carpet treatment. It’s nice that you showed him through your actions and not just words that you weren’t interested in his money. I haven’t been in such a situation, but I don’t think I’d feel comfortable dating a man with wealth.
Meli,
Too bad things didn’t work out with the millionaire, but I have a HUGE amount of respect for you because you did break it off. That shows a very large amount of character and I have to salute you. You are truly a rare diamond and made the right decision.
Marrying men because they have a lot of money or a man marrying a woman simply because she is good looking are, unfortunately common mistakes. Both scenarios almost always end poorly.
I know a guy, an owner of an accounting business, who fell madly in love with a woman and ended up marrying her. She told him she loved him, seemed like the perfect wife and to all external appearances, they looked like the perfect couple. He puts her through college (easily cost $100k+) she finishes and gets a good job (because she doesn’t want to work for him, she wants to be independent and have her own career.) Of course, after that, she dumps him. It turned out that the whole “in love” thing was simply an act and it was all about getting his money to pay her way through college. That was the only reason she was with him.
I also know men who date woman for money, it is not a womans thing …
Adam,
The part you’re missing is that she was probably giving him lots of sex. Who knows what kind of kinks he was into that she may have tolerated, or perhaps even enjoyed.
Unless she married him and the forced him to live a celibate life, you cannot say he got nothing out of it.
Men get sex without commitment all the time.
Women get money for sex all the time. Sometimes with commitment even.
But money can’t buy love. And sex can’t buy love.
Would that both genders realize that 🙂
Lin,
You are right, there are definitely male gold diggers. But trading money and resources for sex is an overwhelmingly female game. If you look at prostitution, stripping and other sex related jobs, the openings are overwhelmingly for females, there are, for example, male strippers, but those male strippers who strip for women exclusively are probably less than 5% of strippers.
Karmic Equation:
More wise words from a wise woman 🙂
She was gorgeous, way out of his league and he was probably getting great sex from her. But you know Karmic, when it comes to me, when I get married, I want a woman who loves me. Yes I want regular sex, but I don’t want to be married just for the sex. If I simply wanted on-demand drama free sex for money, I would hire a sugar baby. There are tons and tons and tons of wannabe actresses and models running around LA that would be happy to sleep with me regularly for money. Tons. And they would cost far less than this girl ended up costing.
Hi Adam. I think there are several reasons why there appears to be more women involved in working in the sex trade.
1. Men have historically enjoyed more economic freedom and women have resorted to selling their bodies because of lack of options since the dawn of time. While this clearly doesn’t apply as much anymore, it’s certainly set a foundation around the perception of women female sexuality is.
2. Men seem more willing to pay for sex than women seem willing to pay for sex.
So you could make the argument that these things are ‘women’s games’ but you could also look at it from the idea that these are ‘men games’. After all, if men were not so willing to pay for sex, there wouldn’t be a market or it. (Which is why there isn’t as much of a market for women buying sex.) It’s not because women are magically more greedy than men when it comes to money. I don’t know if that was the point you were trying to make but I don’t think it’s fair to say that sex related jobs are a ‘female game’. Actually, women selling their bodies for sex is really the “gentleman’s club”.
Allheart81:
It is all very simple. Some women are forced into the sex trade and that is terrible and unbelievably awful. But the limited number of women that I have met that have been involved in porn, stripping and other aspects of the sex industry were not forced to do anything, were not desperate and made a conscious decision to enter their trade. If anything, they felt like they were getting the better end of the deal. They had to excerpt minimum effort and got tons of money.
The reason why men pay for sex is because, on average, the male sex drive is WAY, WAY beyond the female sex drive. Hate to be politically incorrect, but that is just the way it is. It can be very difficult to get women into bed for some guys and with so many women (surveys show up to 40%) willing to exchange sex for money, it is easier for some men to simply pay women and skip the drama and games. I have never done this, but I understand their point of view.
Hi Adam – I would ask you to read up on facts and statistics about the sex trade and possibly re-read what I’ve said. Because I never said women were forced into the sex trade. This was not even on my mind.
Many women do choose to enter it, I agree! Usually it’s young women who do not understand the realities of what the sex trade really is. They tend to be desperate for money and idealistic about the opportunities. They are young and inexperienced going up against people who have way more experience than them. Most young women are only actually in the sex trade business 1-6 months before they are so emotionally and physically drained that they can’t do it anymore. (Prolapsed anuses, herpes in their eye and other awful medical conditions have become normal for women in the sex-trade.) Or, they are pushed out because those who run the sex trade see no use for them anymore. Usually in that time frame of a couple months, the young ladies are asked to do increasingly more hardcore sexual acts until there is no ‘new’ things for them to do anymore and the phone calls stop coming. Most women don’t infact make that much money in the business. The real people making money are those who actually run the business behind the scenes. Unfortunately, there is always more women who keep going through (and coming out) the revolving door. Have you actually ever talked to a stripper about her feelings about men? Strippers and those in the thick of it who see the worst behaviors in men (and yes, the sex-trade does highlight some of men’s worst behaviors), usually end up more negative and calloused feelings/opinions about men then those who aren’t in the sex trade.
Mitigating all these facts, the fact remains that women are not in the sex trade because they are more greedy about money than men. I feel this is a point you were attempting to make. Men are more willing to pay for sex, so women sell it to try and create opportunities for themselves because of it. Both men and women enjoy money. Women are not more ‘greedy’ around money.
The average male sex drive is way beyond the female sex drive? I would say that sometimes the average male sex drive *can* be ‘somewhat’ higher than the females *at times*. I do not think men are “WAY, WAY” more sexual creatures than women or that their sex drives are so over the top to women’s it explains the way male sexuality plays out in society. Men do enjoy social freedom to explore their sexuality and women still don’t completely today. Men enjoy so much freedom to explore their sexuality in our society that sometimes it’s comparable to all the fast-food joints that litter our society and make us over-weight. Our society does heavily operate in ways that support heterosexual male fantasies over anyone else – even heterosexual females. Since the dawn of time men have wanted to control female sexuality after all and that still exists. Women just aren’t given the same opportunities to explore their sexuality like men are.
Yes, it can be difficult to get a regular woman in bed. Because most women are not looking to be used just to get any one man off just so he feels happy. Women aren’t in it for quantity. They are looking for quality.
I also understand the point of view you present. But possibly from an equally politically incorrect line of thinking as you. The reason some men pay for sex is because they have not developed the skill set to see women as equal human beings with their own set of needs, desires and wishes. So they resort to what is ‘easy’ for them to get what they want from women instead of figuring out what they need to do to be as giving in a relationship as they wish their female partner to be. They have not developed the emotional intelligence that in important inequality based relationships. Equality based relationships requires you to think about the other person’s needs just as they should be thinking of you. You have to deal with another imperfect human being that won’t always want or do what you want her to do. Some men can’t deal with this. And some men today expect sex on demand because we live in a culture that has breed a fair amount of entitlement around sex and women. As if men are ‘owed’ these things. So when men don’t get them, sometimes they get angry. And other times they pay for it instead. Paying someone to do something for you is always easy! Instead of understanding that real women, with real needs, who are not being paid to cater to them are always going to be more difficult to relate to because they will always deserve the same opportunities men have been afforded in our society to pursue their own needs and desires within relationships. Just as real men, with their own real needs and desires, will always be more difficult to relate to than a man that is being paid to fulfill a woman’s fantasy about who she wishes men where.
Meli, sorry you had to waste your time with this stupid rich guy. Going back to Robyn’s comments, “red flag” that he only bought things he wanted and you were too shy to ask or say what you wanted. men like this 1. think what they spend on the trip is already a lot in his mind and counts as a gift. 2. he wants complete control over his money. 3. he identifies himself and his ego with his money 4. even if he tries to share, he cant because without money he feels so empty inside and feels like nobody. this type of man is most likely to be a self centered man. stay away from self centered man and go with mem who have compassion and who have mindfullness. so no matter how nice you are selfish men are hard to change. they will disappoint you everytime even though time and time again you fight about it and ask him to show more compassion he will find a way to.disappoint you.
I have to go with the guy here as well. Her entire letter sounds like she feels she is entitled to his money. I’m surprised he has put up with this for 4.5 years. My boyfriend of 3.5 years and I do not live together, so our situation is not exactly the same. He does indeed make more money than me.. probably 4x as much. He does tend to pick up more tabs than I do, but I always offer. Always. And on our recent beach vacation, it was sweet to see the grateful look on his face when I handed over my credit card to gas up the car.
I have been on the opposite side of this coin… living with a guy who was jobless. (He did indeed turn out to be a user/mooch but that is another topic.) And I did feel resentment when he just expected me to pay for whatever he wanted. It took away my spirit of giving out of caring when it became a demand.
I dont care if I sound old fashion, but I think she is not expecting too much..I believe that a man should take care of his wife and family, i think it is his job as a husband and father and yes i believe that a woman should do the cleaning and cooking and make her man happy.. I think that she needs to communicate with her fiancee and tell him how she feels and maybe he can change his ways… of course if the man wants to help the wife then that is good too but as far as equality is concerned.. i do not want to be the one who mows the grass or make sure the cars have their oil changed, Ill stick with the indoor work.. bottome line.. a man should provide his woman with the things she needs AND wants…
Why?
I remember reading this advice column a couple years back in which a woman was complaining that while her husband makes ten times as much money as she does, he insists on splitting all common expenses equally, and while she has nothing left for herself after that, he has expensive hobbies and goes on luxury vacations (without her).
Perhaps my thinking on this is so categorical because I originally come from a country where separate finances in a marriage are unheard of, but still, how can two people IN A MARRIAGE have differing standards of living, and be both okay with it??
The man in that marriage was obviously able to enjoy all the extravagances that leave his wife out and not be bothered by her misfortune (which already seems bizarre to me), but, more importantly, the wife – she wrote that letter after some years of being married to him! So, that tells me, for quite a long time she’d been trying very hard to justify his conduct as legitimate!
For what it’s worth, yes, if the woman in the couple makes much more than the man, and yet chooses to be with him, I would expect her to contribute proportionally, too.
There’s 1 assumption underlying what I’m about to say – that she wanted (as did he) to have the home/cars/etc. that take her income. If she wanted to have extra $, then she could/should have argued for something more modest within her budget.
With that assumption, if they live in a place and have overhead expenses that leave her little left over why should he pay more for her, subsidizing her life? Don’t just say “Because they’re married.” Marriage is a contract voidable at either party’s discretion. So, if he pays to subsidize her increased standard of living for some years, and she later decides to leave, he has nothing for that time. But she has more than she otherwise would have had due to her own efforts. In effect, he’s paid her for her time.
Cold, I know, but that’s how it works.
“…how can two people IN A MARRIAGE have differing standards of living”. EXACTLY.
This is just my opinion, but from experience, when 2 people get married, it should all go into one pot regardless of circumstances…what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is yours. As a man, wouldn’t I want my wife that I love to have all the best I could afford? Of course I would if I truly loved her. But I am wondering if her fiance even knows about her feelings on this topic? I really think this is most likely situational and there is another side to it. If not, if the guy really doesn’t have a good spirit, she should move on regardless of the life she is promised because it is all material anyway, so won’t be fulfilling most likely if the relationship and respect isn’t there.
“As a man, wouldn’t I want my wife that I love to have all the best I could afford? Of course I would if I truly loved her.”
You got it right, Paul!
“what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is yours.” I think that would probably work in a situation where both parties make similar incomes but sadly, women have allowed progressive communist ideals to infiltrate their views of relationships. Allow me to demonstrate. A typical woman dating a man who makes more money than her will assume that the man should cover more bills and pick up the tab more as he has more money to spend than she does. It doesn’t matter whether she saves all her money or blows it frivolously, the man should pay more regardless. In addition, even if the man makes less money than her, she believes that the man should support her and pay all the bills as this is the man’s “job” and that is his proper role in supporting his wife or girlfriend. Every argument is in the female’s favor.
I personally feel if two people have not reached a point to trust each other enough to commingle their finances, then they should not get married, regardless of which partner being the higher earning spouse.
Your idea works great when your earning less or saved less….
Great unbiased response Paul.
I also wondered what the $200 “shopping” was – if it’s groceries, pony up (though not for all of it), but if it’s your own spending, well, it’s yours.
The BF and I divide rent proportionally to income and most other bills half (since even if I did live on my own I wouldn’t spend 1/3 less on trash collection or cable…oh, and to clarify I bring in 1/3 the money and he brings in 2/3 or so). It works for us now.
If there’s going to be a prenup, then she has a say in what it contains. Why not have a prenup that says that they will each contribute proportionally to household expenses? Or that they will have the exact same amount of spending money? It’s not as if she doesn’t get a say on what goes in that document.
.-= Honey´s last blog ..Is Your Love Style Blowing Your First Dates? =-.
what’s with this proportional spending nonsense. Each of you are equal members of the relationship so why should one party have to contribute more?