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My girlfriend and I started dating in August of 2007. We became really close, not just to each other, but to each other’s friends and family as well. We talked on the phone at least 4 times a day, and nothing seemed to be holding us back. That was until early June, when she told me didn’t want a boyfriend anymore, because she wanted to enjoy her last summer of nursing school without having to “check in” with a boyfriend.
We didn’t see each other for a week, then she invited me to her sister’s house to watch the College World Series, and when we were leaving, she made out with me. We started seeing each other again, almost every day, and it was as if we were still dating, minus intimacy. We still talk on the phone multiple times a day and go out to parties and events together. We also attend church together every Sunday. She even talks about my future-whether I will be married or have children and whether or not she’ll be my wife and their mother. However, still, there’s NO intimacy beyond just a kiss on the lips.
To make matters worse, I think she’s dating an old boyfriend named Ben. There have been several occasions where I’ve invited her to attend an event, and she couldn’t, only to later to find out that she was out with Ben. Even one of her friends has said she is dating Ben!
I just don’t get it….is she dating Ben? Is she dating me? Is just playing us both? Is this the way she is with her close guy friends? I am so confused.
LJ
If you, dear reader, have ever been this position – wondering where you stand with someone who seems to have feelings with you, but doesn’t really act on it – please click here.
Go to Search My Date-A-Base and look for these topics: If You’re Dating a Man Who Won’t Call, Commit, or Make an Effort For You. There are seven articles that deal with different variations on this question. All of the questions are from women, but, thanks to LJ, we can now add one from a man.
So here’s the deal, bro:
The only two people who are confused are you and your ex. She’s confused and is sending mixed signals. You’re confused because she’s sending mixed signals. But, from the outside, it’s pretty clear what’s going on.
You may have a piece of her heart, but you don’t have her respect right now.
You’re her best friend, and even if she doesn’t see herself marrying you, she definitely doesn’t want to lose her best friend. She also knows that you are hung up on her, and that you will do whatever she asks. This gives her way too much power over you – and, for what it’s worth – doesn’t make you any more attractive to her. You may have a piece of her heart, but you don’t have her respect right now.
Just as clearly, you don’t even have respect for yourself right now. Which is why you’re willing to talk on the phone multiple times a day, go to church together, and put up with her seeing her ex-boyfriend – and STILL not be angry enough to walk away.
In short, she’s using you. Not because she’s an evil person. Not because she doesn’t care about you or wish you the best. Nope. She’s using you because she CAN. She’s using you because you LET her. She’s using you because she’d rather have you in her life on HER terms and hope that you’ll put up with it. She’s using you because people are inherently selfish and will invariably do what’s best for THEM.
So your ex gets to keep her best friend, confidante, and church buddy; she gets to mess around with other guys on the side; she gets to keep your undying love and devotion – and she doesn’t have to give ANYTHING up. What’s her incentive to stop talking with you every day? That’s right! There IS none.
That’s why expecting her to give up the benefits of her relationships with both you and Ben is foolish. As long as you are cool with being used, you get the relationship you deserve. A relationship with a woman who has so little respect for you that she’ll see her ex-boyfriend publicly, and still hint to you that you two may be married one day.
She’s using you because you LET her.
You claim to be confused, LJ, but really, that’s a smokescreen. You need to recognize that a woman who loves you doesn’t date another guy, a woman who cares about you doesn’t keep you on the hook after you break up, a woman who wants you physically doesn’t keep things platonic.
And yet you ignore all this evidence and claim to be confused about your relationship.
I hope, after reading this, that you’re no longer confused.
I hope, after reading this, you’re angry.
I hope, after reading this, you move on.
Jennifer says
I guess I don’t get how he’s being ‘used’. I don’t get what he should be so angry about. She said she wanted to break up and she gave him her reason. She’s not ‘using’ him for sex or money. All they do is talk and spend time together, which he clearly wants to do as well. Even when she talks about a hypothetical future, she’s careful to not say they will definitely be married to each other. So she’s not lying to or manipulating him.
I’m all for not seeing her anymore to concentrate on meeting other women that can give him what he wants, give him time to grieve the loss of the relationship he thought he had, but I don’t get why he should be angry. It doesn’t seem to me like she’s doing anything really over the top.
Hanny says
Jennifer He is being USED every one have feeling do you want some one to send you away and asking you to come if only needed in their life? This is NOT a job where you can be lay-off with benefits you are talking about some one heart. He wants to have a clarification of who she actually preferred or she is auditioning?
Amanda says
I hate being told I’m being used. The thing gets me upset. Hahaha. Being used is pay off life. My story, if I tell you, you will call me dumb, cuckold etc. But, hey its a lesson
Dan says
Jennifer if she is carefully wording what she says about their future she is creating false hope for her benefit.
Making his mind creatively believe if he remains a loyal non forceful man she will quit her other casuals for him.i think she’s a narcissistic sociopath and it’s written all over her.
You think it’s ok to give men false hope as long as you politically correctly word it
Honey says
If a relationship is going well and both people are on the same page, there are no mixed signals. While I do think that the kissing thing is kind of strange, her actions clearly indicate that she does not want a relationship with him, but that he is the “backup” guy. If he’s okay with that, fine, if not – stop spending time with her and find someone who will make him a priority.
Steve says
Jennifer Dec 11th 2008 at 10:07 am 1
I guess I don’t get how he’s being used. I don’t get what he should be so angry about.
I think the heart of the issue, as it is with many of the emails that Evan gets, is that intelligent people don’t want to admit that they no longer can have what they want. So, they believe a weak rationale that everybody else can see through or they are “confused” about what is going on.
LJ’s exgirlfriend is acting like she still is his girlfriend in many ways.
There really hasn’t been a clear transition from being a couple to being friends. They were a couple one week acting in certain ways and the next week they were “friends” acting in many of the exact same ways. The “if we are married someday” comments and the kissing on the lips are added curveballs.
LJ’s ex girlfriend probably knows this at some level, but doesn’t want to give the benefits of LJs company. She is an intelligent person who can see these things, but doesn’t want to give up what she can longer ( at least until some time has passed ) have.
LJ himself can probably see all of this, but like his ex girlfriend he doesn’t want to admit to himself that he can no longer have what he wants.
We all tell lies to ourselves this way.
If not, Evan would be out of business. So would the authors of “He Is Just Not That Into You”, which by the way is a soon to be film.
James says
I’m having the same issue except she my kids mother so still have to have her in my life when she sees the kids I have cusyody. I was actually ok for awhile doing single dad thing being busy with work and my kids l. Didn’t really talk to her while she with her guy. But now she coming around more and that was fine until she offered sex. Then those feelings I thought were gonna are trying to come back even though we don’t want to be together bit now she’s doing this best friend thing and sex and still going on dates while I have main custody of kids.
Steve says
LJ;
I don’t think you are seeing the situation clearly because you haven’t accepted that the situation yet. Ask anybody else their opinion. They will tell you. It is over
Start acting like a friend to her if you can handle it at this point in time.
Don’t accept kisses from her. Don’t give her more time and attention than you would an ordinary friend. Use that attention and time to start dating.
Lance says
Totally agree, this guy has been LJBF’ed…let’s just be friends. It’s not strange at all that they kiss, kissing for chicks is like holding hands. It’s no big deal. I’ve actually been in this exact situation and it totally sucked. I had to make a 100% clean break to get over it.
It’s an issue if he’s calling 4 times per day. There’s such a thing as spending too much time and being too clingy. Not attractive. He needs to work on that and becoming more secure before considering dating ANYONE, much less an ex.
Hot Alpha Female says
I think some people get caught up in the assumption that the more you talk to a girl, the more her parents like you and the more she shares with you. The greater the chances are.
I would say that if you do the complete opposite your chances would increase 10 fold.
Hot Approach Coach
Approach Anywoman, Anywhere, Anytime
Amanda says
This is just a myopic theory. Sorry to speak. I did it unconsciously my girl but she also unconsciouslygot pregnant by her best friend. ..lol. So I don’t necessarily take Internet advice absolutely. I simply access my situation with my significant other.
Raymond says
You sound simple and you tell it like it is , you sound like the type that thinks way outside the box and might even stay up late does intelligent people do that a lot you one of those play girl’s that’s been around the block more than once maybe call an asshole out we you see one from 100 yards away lol😉
Steve says
Lance Dec 11th 2008 at 01:54 pm 5
Totally agree, this guy has been LJBF ed let’s just be friends. It’s not strange at all that they kiss, kissing for chicks is like holding hands. It’s no big deal. I’ve actually been in this exact situation and it totally sucked. I had to make a 100% clean break to get over it.
There are prostitutes who will do anything for money,but who will not be kissed on the lips. That means something intense to women. So does holding hands.
I agree with you otherwise. Being friends for a woman means different things than it does for a man, even for close friends. Guys don’t give their friends pecks on the lips or call their friends several times a day. Given all of this is happening a week after a break up LJ’s girlfriend would have to be a fool to not this or she is too selfish to care.
Adrian says
Agree with you steve, i was in the same situation with my ex, we weren`t together but she was calling my dog “her son”, she told me she wanted to eat with my family, call me late at night, just to talk etc…
I started to think, well maybe this is going somewhere…wrong.
we talk about it and she said, she didnt want to be with me..at the moment, maybe in the future, but, she enjoy talking to me, the advice i give her and all that other motha jazz, that she view me as her friend, i didnt even say anything, i just told her, im not your friend..nor i want to be one, i was aiming for the tittle of husband, im sorry honey, but i choose my friends, may God, Buddah, or Alah, protect you and always look out for you.
it was so damn hard, but for the sake of my emotional health, it was the best thing to do.
best regards.
Adrian.
thomas says
I can relate to this.
I came across someone that had a dude that she was living with, but still wanted my attention.
A few years ago, I became freinds with a woman, but she was dating a guy. After 2 months, she started to get clingy, she always wanted me to take these long walks with her. By month 3, she was always groping me and molesting me. When I would go some place to eat, she would want to come with me. The worst thing, she would sometimes talk to me in some weird baby voice. By month 4, she would go through my stuff like it was her own. Even if I asked her not to, she just ignored me and went through my stuff and did what she wanted to do. By month 5, she started to give me small gifts all the time. By month 6, she started to make me hold her purse when she went to the bath room.
That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I told her that it had went on for too long and that she had a dude that deserved this and not me. When I was out by myself, people thought that she was my girl friend and would ask me questions about her. I would tell people no, it was some girl that hung out with me. Most people did not believe me.
At one point, I had to chew her out several times over a few weeks that I was not her dude. She just kind of sat there each time and looked at me like I was retarded. Each time I chewed her out, she was cool for about a week, then she just got worse.
Over the next 3 month period, I tried to avoid her as much as possible. I came across her once a month. She would yell at me that I was not keeping in contact, she talked down to me like I was a puppy that messed on the floor.
After a year of knowing her, it just got old. No matter what I said she did not listen. I eventually had to tell her that I did not want to have anything to do with her, that I never wanted to see her face again. No matter what I did or said, it would not work. She would not stop molesting me and she had a dude.
It just got to be frustrating to have some chick that is hanging on you all the time talk to you in some weird baby voice who buys you dinner, but scares off any chick that you are really interested in. If a girl is with a man, leave her, make a clean break and go after someone that is more serious.
When I told the her to go away and I never wanted to see her again, it was the worst feeling that I had ever felt. About a month later, it was the most relaxed that I felt in a long time.
I do not know if I was the back up guy, but I do not like to feel like I am a second place trophy.
The InBetweener says
Yeah, dude, Steve hit the nail on the head.
Steve Dec 11th 2008 at 01:05 pm 4
“Don’t give her more time and attention than you would an ordinary friend.”
As a matter a fact, unless you really still WANT to be friends with her, she should be cut clean off. [IMHO]
Yeah, you might still have some type of feelings for her, but it’s OBVIOUS that she does NOT reciprocate those same feelings and since your feelings towards her were/are NOT her concern, why should her feelings matter to you anymore?
downtowngal says
It sounds as if LJ and his ex are on different pages. To Jennifer’s point, if LJ’s being used, it’s his own fault for putting up with a situation where he’s not getting what he wants. Expectations come into play whenever feelings are involved, and obviousy this guy has feelings. He misses her so much that he’s hoping they’ll get back together. The only solution is for him to make a clean break and do what’s right for him. Only over time will the right thing happen (meaning they’ll get back together or he’ll grow as a person and discover he deserves better).
And I don’t nec. agree with Hot Alpha Female. In this situation, yes, I agree, less is more from LJ. But in general, if a guy is pursuing a woman, contact is a good thing (I’m not talking about OCD-calling 10x per day after the first date behavior, but showing general interest).
Jennifer says
@Steve #3, I get what you are saying, but I still don’t understand the call for anger. I don’t think he should see her anymore and all that, but what is there to be mad about? She hasn’t deceived him, she hasn’t lied, she stopped sleeping with him; he’s just been leading himself on, like most of us are prone to do sometimes.
Adrian says
what evan is talking about is that she knows how he feels, and yet she is not being clear about where they stand, she`s playing him for a fool(with no opossition from him) and he needs to wake up and see that she is just playing games. A person who truly cares about you (whether she or he is in love or not) tells you, without hesitation..I dont love you.
Thats why he needs to be mad.
Robert Lehrer says
You’ll save yourself a lot of heartache if you stop trying to figure out what she’s doing.
The bottom line is that she’s with someone other than you. If you can live with that without trying to get her back, fine. Then be her friend.
If you can’t live with that, it’s time to walk (away from her). If this is the case, I revise what I just wrote. Don’t walk, RUN away.
Steve says
LJ
1. She told you that she didn’t want a boyfriend, as in any
boyfriend, as it was demanding too much of her attention while in school.
2. Yet, she is now dating someone else. She is still in school.
1 + 2 adds up to that she doesn’t want you, in particular, as a boyfriend.
Maybe all of that togetherness, even if she encouraged it, made her start seeing you as clingy. That may not be the case, she may have just grown bored with you or something reignited with her ex. Its over either way, but you want to file that away as a possible mistake to avoid in the future.
Set up appropriate boundaries your ex. Be her friend, not her girlfriend.
See her and her family much less. Once you do that and have been out on a few dates with new people you will feel noticeably better.
Steve says
@Jennifer, post #12
She has deceived him. She dated him for over a year and a half. She didn’t tell him the truth about dumping him. She told him that having a boyfriend while in school was demanding too much of her attention. Yet, she is dating someone else despite still being in school.
Most of LJs anger is not her fault, only some. Like it or not, men are not women. They don’t do the intimate behaviors LJ has done with his ex with their platonic friends. Men aren’t “girlfriends”. If a woman is behaving toward a man the way LJs ex is to him, a man is likely to think they are interested in him romantically.
Yes, she broke up with him, explicitly, but doing these behaviors has helped LJ to deceive himself and that self deception is what led to LJ being angry. His self deception isn’t technically her fault, but she could have drawn more appropriate post-breakup boundaries to have put a stop to it.
Men and women do become friends after having been a couple. Most of the time it doesn’t happen in a week and most of the time even if a close friendship forms it isn’t at the level LJ described.
hunter says
I think, LJ messed up somewhere, he can move on, start seeing someone else, or, continue to see her. The sooner LJ starts seeing someone else, the sooner the bond is broken.
hunter says
Thomas…..she must not have been a good lover!….some people keep parttime lovers, when the going is good!……
hunter says
……either that or, you are the kind of man that behaves…….
thomas says
either that or, you are the kind of man that behaves.
I have had a few girls ask me if I was gay. I responded with, “does that matter, because you already have a dude on your arm.”
If a chick is with a guy, I do what I need to do in order to keep her off me. I would never want it to happen to me, so why do it to others. Plus if she is willing to do it to one guy to get to me, what is there to stop her in the future to make her not want to do it to me to get her next catch?
It just seems like some females always have to have a guy. They will be with a guy, even if they do not like him, just to have some one. So when they transition from one guy to the next, she will have two men at the same time, over lap, to cover things in case it does not work out with the new guy.
Roger says
@ Thomas, reply 20
So true man
cinnamon says
“I would never want it to happen to me, so why do it to others. Plus if she is willing to do it to one guy to get to me, what is there to stop her in the future to make her not want to do it to me to get her next catch?”
Good to know there are still people on this planet who think that way.
But Thomas, just to be fair, there are plenty of men who also have no problem picking up on the next women even though they are still involved with the previous one, not to mention these who just want to have affairs on the side.
Sunflower says
I was in exactly the same position, albeit, I was the female in the situation. I was like his comfort blanket – always there, someone he could rely on, because (as I now realise) he knew that I was more devoted to him than vice versa. To him I was just convenient. We were totally best friends, spoke many times a day, always each other’s “go-to person” in times of trouble. While I was living through it, every time there was any intimacy, I just kept thinking, “OK, so maybe it’ll work out better this time”. It never did.
The break-through came when he told me that he’d made a huge mistake messing me around, and that he wanted to spend his life with me. And so I trotted back again. 4 days later, he called it off. THAT’s when I finally saw the light.
We had a year of barely being in touch (which started with me giving him a good piece of my mind). Nowadays, we talk maybe once a month, and meet once a year – but he knows what he did to hurt me, and in fact, rather than me being the puppy to his whims, I now feel as though I have an upper hand, having made it clear that he can never mess me around like that again. We speak when it suits me, when I have time in my schedule. (Admittedly, we are in the same social group, so complete avoidance is not an option)
I’m only sorry I wasted so long thinking things would work out. If it’s right you’ll know it. If the other person makes you question or worry about where it’s going, then it’s not right. You should feel relaxed, not on a knife edge.
Friesland says
This is spot on.
hunter says
on post #20
Thomas!….It is not always what it looks to be!……I have approached women who, had their son-in-law on their arm!…Others had their nephew/son!…..
If a woman asks you if you are gay, you, most likely missed her “subtle” advance.
You posted previously, that a woman came up to you and licked your face, that, means she wanted you to chase her…..I know it gets difficult in a work environment. The difficult part being, there is no “privacy”. Any date you take her on, most any activity you do together(including lover spats), the whole building complex(where you work at) finds out about it…..
Seductress Within says
What LJ needs to do is stop seeing her and talking to her. The reason this break up is so easy for her is because she hasn’t lost anything she didn’t want to loose. She has the attention, the adoration, and a friend who will be there when she needs him and still gets to date the new guy.
If LJ stops all contact, she may turn up the heat to win him back, but the end of the story is the same. She may string him along, but she’ll never come back 100% to the relationship. That ship has sailed.
Jonsi says
I absolutely think he has every right to feel angry, and I only hope he doesn’t turn that anger inward on himself and become bitter. Is she using him? I’d say yes. She knows how he feels, and despite her claiming “this is just friends,” her letting him down easy has nothing to do with his feelings, it is to prevent him from saying or doing anything to her, including dropping her like a bag of bricks, that could hurt her feelings.
This woman is selfish and immature.
We’re all selfish and immature in love, but if she genuinely valued him, she’d be telling him “I don’t want to give you the wrong impression. I value you and value what we had, but I don’t see a future with you, not because you aren’t an incredible person, but because we just aren’t quite the right people for each other. I am sorry, but I want to be direct because I want you to heal and move on and find the relationship you deserve. You deserve an amazing relationship, but I am not that person. I sense that you still want more than friendship and it’s not fair for me to try to be your best friend when I know you are hurt and want more. How do you feel about all of this? Do you feel it would be better if we took a clean break until you are ready?”
It’s all about boundaries, LJ. She’s not an evil person, but she is not truly your friend. Any woman who takes a long hard look at you and decides she can do better elsewhere — and that is the default position to take whenever the breakup reasons are equivocal — does not deserve your friendship, at least not until you feel that you have healed. And you set that timeline, not her.
You can either tell her straight up “you need to level with me. You still act like you want me to be your boyfriend, and that needs to stop. It’s apparent to me that you and I are over and I don’t appreciate your maybe’s about us having a future. Be honest with me. How do you really feel?” And you accept nothing less than her wanting to be with you exclusively, or you drop off the face of the Earth. I wouldn’t even negotiate a period of no contact. If she were capable of understanding that, she wouldn’t be treating you like this in the first place. Women who understand the value of taking a break before rebuilding friendship usually encourage it, not to be cruel, but because they genuinely want you to heal and move on because they want you to find a healthy, meaningful relationship.
Steve says
If LJ stops all contact, she may turn up the heat to win him back, but the end of the story is the same. She may string him along, but she’ll never come back 100% to the relationship. That ship has sailed.
Right thing to do, wrong motivations. Game playing is a dead end.
There are plenty of quality women out there. LJ is better off accepting that is over and finding one of those quality women.
Seductress Within says
Steve, I’m not suggesting he play games. I sincerely believe he needs to let her go and stop all contact. My prediction is that when he does, she will “turn up the heat” meaning, do things to make him feel like her feelings are stronger than they are in order to bring him back to the comfortable spot she currently has him.
If she does that, she’ll be the one playing games and I don’t want him to believe he still has a chance with this girl because ulitmately that relationship is over.
Hanny says
yes!!! leave her alone.
Steve says
@SW, post #27
Thanks for clarifying. I agree. If after LJ pulls himself together his ex turns up the heat to keep him around he should leave her behind or make it clear he only has time for her AFTER he has given whoever he is dating all of his time that woman deserves.
Virgogirl says
“A few years ago, I became freinds with a woman, but she was dating a guy. After 2 months, she started to get clingy, she always wanted me to take these long walks with her”
WoW Thomas!! Why was there even a sequel to this story?
“by month 3…..” oh wait, that’s when she started “groping and molesting” you right.? You know, in some parts of the WORLD, molestation is actually a crime??
Okay next, should I even ask why there was a month 4, 5, 6…hey wait, are you sure you’re still not seeing her?
You-are-a-riot!
Max says
Jennifer,
Your posts made me see red. I am curious if your reaction would be the same if it was LJ who played hookie with her and allowed her to wait on him hand and foot? No selfishness??
LJ, Hear this, if you wanna know how bad it can get. 4 years ago, this WOW co-worker met me first. She was bright and good at her work, and we slowly grew to be good friends after 2 years, till one evening she spoke to me about a life-long commitment. I was floored, probably because I am C- in looks and dating.
Gave up the sensible, compatible, though not exciting woman I was living with, and we grew close together. She was possessive – going through my mails, calling me several times every day, being over at my pad any time she was free, cooking for me, initiating wonderful sex – life was heady sweet. Only she never moved in, as I wanted her to, nor slept over.
6 months ago, she tells me her ex is back in her life, moving in with her, however she’d like to keep things between us exactly as they were earlier.
I told her it was over between us, but she would’nt accept that, but kept saying I was her love and life, she loved me very much, just that she had to agree for her family’s sake to try this man.
The fool I was, I stayed with her for another month. I flipped when she told me how she hated sleeping with this other guy, and that she gave the password for her email accounts to this man. The beaut is she still hung out with me every opportunity – lying to her live-in guy about her whereabouts etc.
So, I quit my job and moved to a city 6 hrs away, because I could’nt stop loving her, and kept dreaming of her being with me. My brain knew that there was no future, but my heart was so strong!!.
She continues calling me, on mundane matters (could I please book her tickets on the net with her credit card? could I help her decide on a future course of studies, how should she approach a coworker who’s upset with her etc…) interspersed with how neglected she feels with the man as he’s selfish and a wee bit simple, and how she warns him that she’ll walk out on him.
I finally underwent counselling 2 months ago, and have mostly gotton over my feelings for her. Her calls continue, and several mutual friends have told me she keeps checking on me.
I am not mad at her, rather pity her for being such an insecure person. However, I AM mad at myself for having allowed her to ruin my life, and having to quit a job I liked. My steady girlfriend has been in touch since, to reiterate her support and belief in me, but something’s died within, and I think it’s unfair for me to go back to her after all this. I want to close these doors for good, but am so vulnerable, it scares me to think that I’d absolutely accept this woman into my life, if she came to me.
I accept all my faults – being a doormat and a complete fool, but does that give anyone a right to use me as the fool I have been? To me, that’s downright unethical. But maybe that’s just me.
I’ve learnt an expensive lesson, when you see someone acting possessive, or being too sweet on you, don’t give in, but evaluate early on. Procrastinating on the decision is a fatal idea.
Steve says
@Max, post # 30
Wow. I will remember your story the next time I hear some woman going off about how men are (always) the operators and how women (always) get pushed into being their foolish doormats.
Get an unlisted phone number, stop taking calls from the psycho-vixen, apologize to your ex-steady if you haven’t, give her permission to move on and keep working at doing so yourself.
thomas says
Virgogirl, that is the difference between men and women…
When a man is molested, it is looked at as acceptable and the guy should just put up with it. When it happens to a woman, then it becomes a crime.
I have had unwanted advances from women in the past and complained to some of my female and would ask advice to get the unwanted woman to stop. The usual reaction, they call me a pussy.
It is a double standard that guys have to deal with. If we are not willing to give in to any woman’s attempt to get our attention, some people think that there is something wrong with us, that we are not true men.
The InBetweener says
@thomas Comment #32
“If we are not willing to give in to any woman’s attempt to get our attention, some people think that there is something wrong with us, that we are not true men.”
Pay no attention to the ignorant fools that think these things. Some of my “SUPER-EXTRA” ignorant friends think with their penis. They actually get upset when I turn down sex from an ex or just mutual female friends. (especially when it comes easy to me) It’s not that I don’t think they are attractive, I just don’t want to have sex with someone that has no problem “JUST” having sex for the sake of having it. Thing that they don’t realize is, just about anyone can get sex ANYWHERE. In my opinion, the desperate ones take what they can get. I prefer to pick and choose. Just goes to show the mentality of some humans.
hunter says
Thomas, are you being approached by the not so sexy, women?…If you are, I understand what you are saying…..
thomas says
It is not that they are not sexy, it is that they are with a guy. I see a number of women with a guy just for the sake of being with a guy. They will string him along until something better comes up. If that happens to be me, I try to be nice about it. I may put up with it for a moment, but I always walk away.
I remember years ago, there was a woman that I would hang out with once in awhile. She started to get too close, so I tried to put up some walls so that she would back away. After awhile, she asked me if I was gay. In response, I asked her if it mattered. I told her that she had a guy and that she should be putting more attention towards him instead of me. She did not like my attitude and threw a temper tantrum.
There was another a few years prior to her. It started out with simple conversation. Eventually, when I would see at a bar with her freinds, she would come over, grab my beer, and take a drink in front of me, and then engage in conversation. Eventually, she started to ask me to walk her to her car. At that point, I would always says that I need to go off in a different direction. One evening, she looked me square in the eye and called me a pussy. On the other hand, she had been seeing the same guy for a few years.
For some odd reason, I have only had women call me a pussy over the years. No guy has even said anything close to it. I have had several women call me that.
I feel that if a woman is with a man and she comes after me, she is damaged goods. She needs to make up her mind and decide if she really wants to be with him or not. I am not going to be that guy that takes another’s woman.
When a man and a woman are together, it should mean something. Even if they do not get along, even if it for the short term, even if it is just to share a bed, even if it is to split the rent, or what ever reason,…… when they are together, I do not want to have anything to do with them at that level.
If a woman wants to have something to do with me, she needs to have a clean break, stay single for a month, a couple months, what ever, then things can start to roll with me.
I have seen too many people in long term relationships that both parties really do not care for each other. It is as though they share a mail box and that is about it. I have seen where both men and women cheat, sleep around, or really do not have anything to with the other person. They say that they are in a relationship, but they have nothing to do with each other.
Sometimes I talk to women and they ask me how long my longest relationship has lasted. When I tell them that it has only lasted a few months, they respond with that theirs has lasted years. When I talk to them more, it seems like they were never really together and that they went on their own separate ways early in the relationship. So many of my freinds have been married for 10 to 15 years, to only get divorced. When I talk to both parties, it was pretty much over about 2 years in. They only stayed together just to be with someone, anyone.
Overall, people need to make up their mind, they need to decide if they really want to be with the other person and the other person feels the same way. Too many people get married just to get married.
Same goes for relationships, too many people get into one just to get into one. If you are looking for something better, then do not string the other person along. If the other person is fine with it, then that is their problem. Call me a pussy, call me a fag, I am not going to be the next person that you run to while stringing the last boy friend along.
Do not get me wrong, I love my ovaries. I just do not like them attached to extra baggage.
Adrian says
amen to that thomas, you sir have my respetc.
Adrian says
as you know, is much more than respect… more meaningful 😀
hunter says
Thomas, if a woman is seeing someone else and wants to see you, I don’t think she is damaged goods. Most women are highly intuitive, she may just be picking up good vibes from you and wants to investigate.
Women operate off their feelings. Women don’t change their minds, their feelings change.
cinnamon says
hunter,
I think that while being in a relationship both men and women are likely to pick up good vibes from other people of opposite sex all the time. That’s unavoidable unless you lock yourself out from the outside world. Being faithfull means that you don’t go investigating it as long as you are in a relationship. It’s about respect and fidelity, and not about being intuitive or non-intuitive.
Max says
@Steve,
Thanks for the support. Have taken these steps, but have lost self-confidence big-time, and there are mood swings – one moment I feel filthy and used, the next, rational and compassionate towards her, and then angry and vindictive.
Women – we can’t live with them, and we can’t live wihtout them. One night stand is the way to go, I’m thinking, one month outermost, and then walk away.
Steve says
@Max, post #40
Max, I wouldn’t conclude from one bad relationship with a user that one night stands are the way to go or that there is a problem with women ( several billion individuals ) in general.
Obviously, the psycho-vixen is a special case and I’m sure a psychotherapist could find a problem to explain her behavior.
Don’t be hard on yourself. In the dating arena everyone gets hurt. In the dating area almost everyone has to hurt or disappoint someone. You aren’t anyone special in that regard or worse. You got burned. It happens to many smart and nice people. That is life.
Calisto100 says
Completely agree with Steve, it’s impossible to arrive at any conclusions overall. Every situation is different.
Anisa says
Steve and Calisto, you are right, but very much theory to me. Nowadays it seems like there are only very few persons who think like Thomas does. It seems like everybody is cheating on everybody. They are with someone and at the same time looking for another person. I have been approached by too many married men. With beautyful wifes and lovely kids etc. I respected them before. I have seen too many bad relationships. I have heared too many wifes saying: “If I would get a chance to live my life over again, I would never marry.”
So I just can’t trust men anymore. It seems that I am not able anymore to trust a guy enough to take a next step. So, for me, no relationships at all. There are too many damaged and insecure people out there; too many men who believe that it is their instinct to hunt till the day they die and too many women who don’t mind to seduce married men.
I have my kids, my home, my car, my job, my busy social life. For me only platonic friendships with men. And I am surprisingly happy with that. Life is too short.
The InBetweener says
Basically, it all comes down to being selfish. That’s all.
Most humans are “I want my cake…” type of people. I have a female friend who think this way and it’s sad to see her in a relationship that she abhors but would rather stay in until something better comes along.
Meanwhile, back at the lab, she remains sexually unfaithful to him until her next “victim”.
The InBetweener says
@Max, post #40
“Women – we can’t live with them, and we can’t live wihtout them.”
Not ENTIRELY true. It’s all about choice. Free will to “live with or without” is ENTIRELY up to the individual.
hunter says
I think most women say they would never marry again, if they had to do it all over,(just a small complaint on their part, its alright to complain, a little bit) but, they don’t all, really mean it. ‘Cause most women are nice and comfy. It has been my experience, that when a woman wants a change in her life, she will set her mind on it and do it.
hunter says
Anisa, I don’t think single men can compete with the love you have for your kids.
Anisa says
Hunter, I do love my kids very much naturally, I even believe that the love from a mother to her children is the only real and pure love.
But I don’t think there is competition in love for your kids and love for a man. A woman has very very much love to give.
And that causes men today to behave like written in this comments. Women have been too nice and caring for men over the generations and too neglective to themselves. Men are too spoiled. But I hope (for my daughters AND my sons) and believe that it is going to change in this decade.
Milan says
Break up is part of life and it happens for the good because had she/he been your life partner then she/he would have doomed your life. Be happy that you’ll be meeting a much better guy/gal because you really deserve a much better partner than the ex..Be positive,expect the best of everything. You two weren’t meant to be together so it had to happen, why should you long for someone who can’t see your love.
Someone smart and a deserving one will be your boy/girl-friend because the old one was blind 🙂
Good for him/her.
You deserve better, forget the past, live in today….like I am doing.
Good luck!
hunter says
“Break up is part of life.” Us men, we always leave, either, we walk away, or we get carried out in a pine box!…….
trent says
plain and simple…..”Walk Away”
CasualEncountersBlog says
Evan called this one. The man has been ensnared by the hairy lasso. Lose that crazy mixed-up brain-egg-laying parasite. Respect yourself and hit the road.
Your friends are almost certainly all laughing at you behind your back, if that makes a difference.
jason says
This is soooo true. I’m going thru this right now. Everything I read is exactly what’s going on with me. She might care about me, but not the way I care for her. She doesn’t respect me, I’m sure of it. I don’t respect myself now that I have read this. I need to respect myself. I need to move on. If it were that easy.
Jason says
id rather feel pain then nothing at all. its sad but true. 🙁
Jay74 says
@ Jennifer.
The call for anger comes for the fact that some women (and men) knowingly use the other person as the back-up guy.
I’ve been in this same situation for a while now, hurt me like hell and I also did it to some women in the past.
It’s not right, you’re dealing with someone’s feelings here, there’s no greater good.
Fact of the matter is that people don’t like to talk about their feelings that much, but deep down both parties know where you stand.
And so, if you know a dude has feelings for you than it means he is clouded in his Judgment and you have to protect the other sometimes.
You cannot have the cake and eat it, some women (and men) go: “well, he’s an adult so it’s his choice”, but that’s BS, you don’t have a choice in the matter sometimes when you’re in love.
It’s like Inbetweener illustrates, it’s selfishness.
Me, I’ve learned that karma does exist in a way, or that what goes around comes around eventually, so do the right thing, someone has feelings for you and you don’t, cut them loose.
Karl R says
Jay74 said: (#55)
“Fact of the matter is that people don’t like to talk about their feelings that much, but deep down both parties know where you stand.
And so, if you know a dude has feelings for you than it means he is clouded in his Judgment and you have to protect the other sometimes.”
Not only do I disagree, but you contradict yourself.
If one person doesn’t talk about their feelings, then the other person has no idea how they feel. Do you expect the person to read minds and somehow magically “know” that the other person has feelings for them?
If you have feelings for someone and to the extent that it’s clouding your judgment, do you tell them that’s what is occurring? If not, how would that person know?
If I’m dealing with an adult, what makes it my right and responsibility to decide that their judgment is clouded (when I have little to no evidence to make that determination) and choose that I need to protect that person from getting hurt, when that person does not want me to make that decision for them?
Jay74 said: (#55)
“some women (and men) go: ‘ell, he’s an adult so it’s his choice’ but that’s BS, you don’t have a choice in the matter sometimes when you’re in love.”
You do have a choice, whether you decide to exercise it or not.
If you have strong feelings for someone who isn’t reciprocating, you may not be able to change the way you feel, but you can change the way you act. You can cut yourself loose and give yourself enough space to get over the other person.
You’re an adult. It’s time to man up and take responsibility for your own decisions. If you’re not ready for that, live with your parents.
Passing By says
@Karl: I dont get people sometimes, or at least your kind, you are exactly like the ex girlfirnd in this blog story, only looking out for you and your needs….screams Selfishness, sounds like your trying to justify your actions as being ok She new her ex was madly in love with her, she broke it off with him, she started seeing someone else and playing him all while they where ment to be broken, you tell me what part of that you dont understand?
she knows he loves her, yet instead of creating bounderies with in the fship she behaves as if there still in a relationship whilst she has someone else, let him loose, dont keep him around to feed your ego and to keep him around as an option, this is what Kay means about protecting the other person, she crossed the line!
Karl R says
Passing By said: (#57)
“I dont get people sometimes, or at least your kind, you are exactly like the ex girlfirnd in this blog story, only looking out for you and your needs….screams Selfishness,”
It sounds to me like you expect the people around you to look out for your needs. That screams irresponsibility.
Be an adult. Your date is not supposed to act as your mommy or daddy, making certain that you don’t make decisions that are bad for you. If your partner isn’t meeting your needs, you need to communicate that to your partner. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, you need to leave.
Passing By said: (#57)
“you tell me what part of that you dont understand?”
I don’t understand why one person gets to abdicate responsibility for making their own decisions.
LJ (original post) and Jay74 (#55) are adults. They do what they want to do. Why is it the ex’s responsibility to make a clean break when LJ and Jay74 don’t want that?
Furthermore, if you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t know and/or doesn’t care that the situation is painful to you, why on earth would you put them in charge of making the decisions?
Tony 65 says
She is using you because you are letting her, thats it , she has no feelings for you whatsoever, not even as a friend.
You are her plaything, cut ties altogether with her , tell her you think she.s casual and leave it at at that.
Charlie Bones says
When someone you’re dating is talking about having children and getting married, then they’re either sincere, or they’re playing with your mind. It sounds like the latter is happening in this case, since she’s clearly not committed to this one guy. Sounds like she doesn’t know what she wants, and it’s better to cut off contact, then torture yourself wondering if she’ll ever come around to her senses.
Trust me, these women grow into their 40s and still behave the same way.
Charlie Bones says
Inbetweener #33 wrote:
“Pay no attention to the ignorant fools that think these things. Some of my “SUPER-EXTRA” ignorant friends think with their penis. They actually get upset when I turn down sex from an ex or just mutual female friends. (especially when it comes easy to me) It’s not that I don’t think they are attractive, I just don’t want to have sex with someone that has no problem “JUST” having sex for the sake of having it. Thing that they don’t realize is, just about anyone can get sex ANYWHERE. In my opinion, the desperate ones take what they can get. I prefer to pick and choose. Just goes to show the mentality of some humans.”
———————————————————
So true, especially when you’re the one who got dumped and the other person is calling on you for the sex, but doesn’t want to have the relationship part of it. You’re on call when they feel like it, but when you want it, they’ll be busy. That’s what’s called ‘using’. The user doesn’t see it that way because they’re the one in control. If both parties are using each other, then yes, it’s not such a big deal. But if one side is hoping for reconciliation and is giving sex while still in the ‘friend zone’, then forget it. You’ll never get past being their part time lover.
Gina says
Interesting to read all the male opinions! You are so right on about “you can get sex anywhere!” When I date, I now try to get to know the person first. Just enjoying the little perks and having some kind of a courtship is really FUN. You should try it and avoid STDs from the bed-hoppers. Seems a lot nicer when you’re hooking up with someone who wants to BE THERE WITH YOU and not thinking about someone else in the meantime or who is the next lucky guy. Big difference.
I think that woman gave the guy a big favor. She was specific about not rejecting him, just wanting the “I want to be free” time. So, guy, it’s about TIMING, not you. Don’t take it personally. She’s not ready for a full time BF. If you are, move fwd and find someone who IS ready. Girls are complaining all the time about not finding men for boyfriends!
Past Experience says
Owe come on now. This girl is using you to MAX! DUMP HER DUMP HER DUMP HER.
Here is my worst experience. In 1979 at 18 I dated a 16 year old. I was a bit naive at that time with the chick games. Everything seemed like it was OK in the beginning. She told me she was virgin on our first date. Her friend who tagged along reconfirmed her statement for some odd reason. About a month or two later she started asking me if I cared if she went out with other guys. Before I could answer she said there was enough of her to go around and it would only be for a couple of hours. I thought she was kidding around at first so I said nothing waiting for the punch line. This went on at least once a week the entire month of June and July. By mid June I thought maybe she was serious about other guys. Two different times the second half of June I said I did not want her to go out with other guys. Both times she said that I did not own her. By July I just gave up and told her that I could not stop her. During this two month period she frequently called me a fool and claimed she had better than me. Having better than me could not have the sex since there was never any sex. I decided early on if she was virgin not to pressure her and wait for her to decide when. One night I told her I did not think she was a virgin because of how she acted. She said she better clean up her act. She never came out and admitted the virgin claim was a lie. I still suspected she lied to me about it. In July she started telling me she was not going to know me anymore during an annual event at the end of July. Every time I asked her why she refused to say. I thought this was a her way of breaking up with me so when I ran into her at the event I ignored her as though she did not exist. Her friend found my later that night and took me to talk to her. Her only words to me were no twice. I said well you are the one who said you would not know me anymore. She walked away and then I walked away. I got ripping drunk slamming many beers down. I ran into a dark haired girl and her two blond friends. The dark haired girl grabbed my hand and dragged me around the annual event. I must have hurled the beer 5 times with her and her friends. They dragged me to a party downtown and we all sat on the floor of bathroom smoking cigarettes and smelling each others hair. These girls played a game where they smell other peoples hair to guess at what shampoo was used. The dark haired girl that was clinging to me guessed every bodies correct. Anyway I passed out a couple of hours later. The next morning I was told she had sex with some of the other people at the party. Somebody gave my a ride home. I never got the girls name and never saw her again.
A couple of month later I saw my X walking out of Kmart with her mother. She had a pretty light colored ribbon in her hair. I finally got the nerve to call her. In less than two minutes she went back into the going out with other guys thing and hung up on me. I tried to call her several times over the next several months with similar results getting hung up on and the dating other guys. I just finally gave up.
I had been been body building for well over a year by that point. Anyway I went to Florida for a while and really started body building heavy. When I got back from Florida I ran into her on July 4th. Her and a friend were going to a show and she said she would see me later. I said probably not. I had no car, no job, and no money. I could not afford myself let alone a girlfriend. I continued to body build the next year. Here I am with a golden bronze tan, extremely well cut body with about a 26 inch waste, starting college, and I run into her again in a park. I simply ignored just like the previous event. I think she still wanted to see me since she came up to me. After hearing others talk about taking turns with her I did not want her anymore. Interesting after saying no and ignoring her I heard about her many boyfriends very frequently. They made it as though she was sexing it up with all my friends. Anyway while I was at the local college and found out I was branded genius level by many instructors. I have looks, body, and brains. Many other girls wanted to be with me. I actually saw her sitting on the grass in front of the main school building one day. She may have been taking classes there but I was not sure. I was going to say something to her but I thought maybe she wanted to be alone. That was the last time I ever saw her.
In my experience 99 percent of the time when you break up it is over. The best thing is to heal the wounds and move on. I have am not sure how many times I have been dumped then later they want me back but I would say it is best to just forget the X and go on.
hunter says
..I agree with you, going back with her would be regressing, don’t want to do that….
l says
Just going through this with my ex, only I’m a woman. Basically he dumped me because he suspected I was cheating (went through my phone, I wasn’t cheating). Then we got back together, and I was helping him with a few legal things (I’m a law clerk). But things started changing and he became distant at which point I found out he was still online dating and in fact, he’d had a profile up the entire time. So, I ended it and he insisted we were never really back together. We kind of stayed in touch as friends and I was being a supportive friend with one of his legal matter but he kept on trying to get me to help him out with his other legal issue. Whenever I said no, he’d have a temper tantrum claiming I promised him to help. I didn’t promise anything and as I explained to him our relationship was over and our friendship is barely on life support because I hadn’t seen him in months. Besides, he has a lawyer, he’s just trying to save a few bucks. NOT MY PROBLEM. Final straw was when he said he’s not interested in any kind of serious relationship, marriage or living together. He told me “Good luck finding someone to marry” and then turned around the next day to ask me AGAIN to help him with his legal stuff. I gave him a piece of my mind and he then proceeded to call me psycho etc. etc.
I have no desire to ever speak to him again. Sadly, I had grown attached to his kids. Yeah, never, ever again.
George says
She has you where she wants you. I’m going through the same thing. 1 month, woman have a hard time letting go, they think they’ve done something wrong, because they probably did, but they will never ever tell you. So they pull you back because they feel guilty or selfish. The more you act like you have other things happening and talk less they hate tht and run back everytime. Just be strong and stay strong.
beentheredonethat says
LJ,
Believe Steve. I am somewhat ashamed but not all the way, to say that I have done this to a guy like you before. I was young and immature. Immature people don’t always understand the total implications of their actions and are typically more selfish than the person they become as they age. I have lead guys on like this because I 1) didn’t want to be alone if I chose not to be 2) needed to feel wanted and attractive 3) knew I could get away with it. It was wrong and done with hardly any regard. In fact, if someone let me treat them this way, the less respect I had for them until I practically had none.
Later I met a guy that practically did the same thing to me. He was really into me or so it seemed but he didn’t want a relationship because he had just gotten out of a relationship (it had been less than a year, but long enough in my opinion). I decided I wanted more and told him so. He said that he didn’t want anything with anyone. Therefore I decided that I was ready for a relationship, and actually got one (that, granted, was not the one I wanted with him). He wanted to continue being friends, and hanging out and even “with benefits”. Since I was dating this other person, I stopped the “benefits”, then decided that it wasn’t fair to this new person for me to even be hanging around with this guy…after all, he knew how I felt but still wanted my company. So I stopped all contact. It was difficult and heart breaking, but I decided to focus on this new relationship (with a loser that I found out later did drugs, had them in my house, and lied about it). While deciding what I wanted to do with this new relationship, this guy called me up out of the blue several months later. He said he didn’t like not having me around and missed me and invited me to his company Christmas party. I promptly declined stating that my new boyfriend wouldn’t appreciate that. That’s when he came clean and said it wasn’t about the Christmas party, it was about the fact that he couldn’t stand seeing me happy with someone else, was feeling sick all the time, found himself constantly looking at pictures of me with this new guy on Facebook and wanted to be with me in a relationship. I listened and said, “well that’s nice but I’m not the same girl that would have given you that consideration six months ago. I respect myself enough not to be treated like that and there are people out there that do care about me enough to snag the opportunity to be with me the first chance they got and never let go”. He explained more of his feelings and I (still in love with him), told him, if you want to be in a relationship with me, you are a man, you will figure out how to be with me. I didn’t offer any suggests, scold him on what he did wrong in the past or tell him what to do now. If he wanted me and deserved me, it was on HIM to figure out how to get to me…no more of me going to him! A week later, he figured it out, told me that he loved me and was 100% a different person towards me. The difference wasn’t him. It was me. This time, I respected myself and expected nothing less from him. If he didn’t, I was perfectly willing to walk away and never look back, and this time, he knew it because I had shown it with my actions. We ended up married and he has never looked at me with anything less than love and respect because he knows that I have that for myself.
Typically your situation doesn’t work out. IF and that’s a BIG IF, anything were to ever work out, it would only happen if you truly changed your situation with her, started respecting yourself, and be perfectly willing to walk away out of respect for yourself. Until you see yourself as worthy of real love and a real devoted relationship, no one else will either.
Raymond says
I personally think that you should do the opposite of what you do cuz no matter what you say it’s really about what you see and feel on your vibes if you both give off the same Vibe obviously there’s something there you have to be able to analyze a woman up and down facial expressions eye contact and different variables women are genetically sophisticated and what you say,do and how you act in particular situations they’re either doing it for their good intentions of you or they’re doing it for their own self reasons sometimes they can use your own habits thoughts and acts against you for their own self game this is a powerful weapon that can be used to manipulate men but that’s only if they have bad intentions if she has good intentions you will be able to tell the difference. So the simplest thing you can do is not act on what she expects make other plans or tell her you’re busy make the situation unusual to her see how far it will take you because in the end you will see if she really does have true feelings for you or she’s just scared that her plan might fail whatever that might be most people will probably say that this is not good advice but if she’s playing you it doesn’t mean that you can’t do what you want to do because she does not control you she can be wasting your time when you can be enjoying your time with someone better so who is to say what about your situation this is a two-way street nothing hurts more than the truth will find out for yourself hope this helps
Athan says
This seems hauntingly accurate and I’m honestly a bit numb…I’m definitely angry, especially at her, but also at myself for not having enough self respect to lay down boundaries and stop putting up with her bullshit. I am a fool, but may I never be so blind again.