Should I Move if My City Has a Limited Pool of Available Men?
Hi Evan, I’ve been following your advice for a while now and have to say, it makes so much sense – every time. My question is what if you live in a city/country where available men are limited? I am an attractive, intelligent, funny and sporty 36 year old woman who cannot for the life of me find a man. I live in Sydney Australia. It’s a well-known fact here that women outnumber men in this city. I have at least 10 girlfriends in a similar position. Once you take away the marrieds and the huge gay population here you are left with so few that we have had crossover on dating sites. Some of us will date a guy only to find out our friend dated him 3 months before! And this is no country town – this is Sydney. As a result I have found myself choosing unavailable men over loneliness.
Do I need to move cities? I feel like if something doesn’t change I’ll end up 46 saying the same thing.
I’m heading to the US on vacation next month. Maybe I’ll have some luck there. I heard the Aussie accent is a charmer!
Thank you,
Kate
Dear Kate,
All I can say to you is, “Yes, but–“
Yes, there are more men in Sydney than women.
100 women for 98.6 men in New South Wales, specifically.
But, so what?
It’s not like life is a game of musical chairs, where 10,000 women are left standing, while everyone else lives on in wedded bliss.
I’m not making light of your situation. I would simply point out a few things:
You have confirmation bias. In other words, you’re struggling with dating and want to find evidence that supports and explains your struggles. What could be stronger than to talk about the powerful man drought that has left all of your 10 girlfriends in similar dire straits.
Did you know that, by your own math, there’s a group of 9.8 single male friends who are also wondering why it’s so hard to find love? Factor out the gay population, and maybe it’s a group of 9 male friends. But you get my point.
Even if there are 10,000 more women in Sydney, it’s not like life is a game of musical chairs, where 10,000 women are left standing, while everyone else lives on in wedded bliss.
At any given point in time…
- Married couples break up and single men emerge on local dating sites.
- Couples who are dating for a year break up and single men emerge on local dating sites.
- New men move to Sydney from elsewhere.
- Women opt out of the dating market entirely and go on semi-permanent guyatus, so that there is less “competition” for the same men.
And so on. It’s not like there’s a finite and static supply of single men.
Really, you don’t have to fly around the world to go on a husband hunt.
So, sure, you can move to the United States — where your accent is undeniably sexy — but you can’t move to New York, Washington D.C. or Philadelphia (which all have more single women). You can consider moving to the West Coast, where there are more single men in Seattle, San Francisco and San Diego. But really, you don’t have to fly around the world to go on a husband hunt.
While the odds are slightly stacked against you demographically, 118,962 people got married in Australia in 2013.
I see no reason as to why you and your friends can’t be among them in the future.
This was me a few years ago, when I thought I’d have to move to find love. I live in a relatively small suburban town that has more married people and families than single men. However, lo and behold, I found love–with another guy living in the same town! He was literally across from me the whole time, living just ten minutes away from my place. He wasn’t available before because he was involved with someone else at the time. When he broke up with her and then felt sufficiently healed from that, he went back online and we really connected. And I couldn’t be happier. If I can do it in suburbia, surely she can in Sydney!
In the meantime, my single friends living in San Francisco don’t seem to think they have it so easy in dating–even with those supposedly favorable demographics (same with friends living in “Man Jose”, which supposedly favors women since there are, generally, more men living there because of those tech industries). They have the same complaints about dating you hear anywhere. From what I’ve seen, there isn’t any place that guarantees love (but on the brighter side, there also isn’t any place that precludes it either)
Well, at 36 she should try to find a husband quickly if she wants kids, and traveling might re-invigorate her personality and options. She might be just too picky looking for her perfect Alpha man. Besides, what is wrong with dating a guy that previously dated her friend, because it wouldn’t matter if she liked the guy and her friend did not. But traveling is a fun idea to meet a spouse, plenty of guys go to asia to find wives, when they can’t meet women in their home countries. Men can be satisfied with sex and cooking. Women want to successful charismatic man for companionship and security. She could always try training a beta man to become more charismatic, or she can find her american husband in the usa.
jon, I had to chuckle at the couple of not-so-subtle pokes in your comment. 🙂
She might be just too picky looking for her perfect Alpha man.
She could always try training a beta man to become more charismatic,
Women often complain that dating sites don’t work because they only receive emails from unsuitable men. They just wait for men to message them and never make the first contact online. I think that most women are just lazy daters because they’re used to men hitting on them since high school, so women lack the social skills to hunt when they get older and lose their looks, while all the handsome men are hitting on younger women. Perhaps due to fear and insecurity, women expect a white knight to gallop in and save her. It just doesn’t work that way in online dating for older women. There are older women who want the checklist and would rather carry on a LDR with a fake-handsome man stationed in nigeria, rather than settle for the ugly unsuitable men living in their state. Some women just want the checklist fantasy life instead of the harder real life.
jon said: “They just wait for men to message them and never make the first contact online.”
This is very true.
I have been on OKCupid for a while now.
I am 53 middle-class and looking for a girl 43 to 55.
I rate a 112% on the OKC “Attractiveness test” (7 to 8 out of 10, really?? I don’t think so, but maybe i sell myself short).
Very few women have ever messaged me first.
And most of the women that I message reply with only a couple of words or a single line.
If that is all of the effort that they are willing to put in to online dating, then why would I not believe that they are most likely the same way in a relationship, so I just stop messaging them right there.
Sometimes I think most women are just waiting for some fantasy man that they see on the cover of a romance novel to come and sweep them away and rescue them from their lonely life.
To be fair, I have met and dated a couple of women from OKC, but I knew going in that we didn’t have much in common, so it was more of a first coffee meet up than a date.
Well, if what you say is true then no wonder my boyfriend was so thrilled that I sent the first email! And I couldn’t be happier with him. I never had hordes of male attention even when I was younger, so I never expected a relationship to be handed to me on a silver platter. I also never felt entitled to demand perfection from anyone else, when I know I’m far from perfect myself. So there are women out there with realistic expectations too (but who knows, maybe those realistic people tend to get off websites more quickly because they grab the best people they can find, rather than continually holding out for greener pastures)
I think both men and women lack in communication skills. But because women put all their effort into looking good and wearing makeup, then they expect the man to make the first move and impress her with his charisma. Women also expect the hollywood fantasy of men in romantic comedies. They expect the real-life men to say the right things just like famous actors. In the past, a man was just expected to have a high-paying job, but now women expect the charm, personality, and charisma of george clooney. Women expect the man to put in the initial energy in dating to impress her with his charm and story-telling. They expect the white knight to burst in and spoil her with his energy and excitement. But most men get tired of keeping that energy up and quickly lose interest. But I think both men and women can have success if they improve their communication skills to create attraction.
Christine said: “maybe those realistic people tend to get off websites more quickly because they grab the best people they can find, rather than continually holding out for greener pastures“.
I think this is true.
A lot of the women that I have seen on OKC appear to almost have made a career out of being on the dating website. They need to be way more realistic in their choices and goals. One woman’s profile I read said she’s been on OKC for over 17 years — career online dater or what?
jon said: “I think both men and women lack in communication skills.”
And in relationship skills.
That is what keeps Evan busy. 🙂
The school systems should start teaching basic relationship and communication skills.
Jon – I think women expect men to approach them when they spend so much time on their appearance because society basically tells women that something is wrong with her if men aren’t flocking to her because of her attractiveness. So if she puts all this effort in, and men don’t approach her, she feels like a failure.
As for the ‘charm of george clooney’ – no I think most women wants a kind man that yes is charming, respects women, doesn’t make everything about her looks and sex and actually wants to get to know her as a fellow human being.
I can tell you that I follow Evan’s advice and I DO initiate first contact with men on OLD.
In fact, just last week, I screwed up the courage to initiate a first contact with a man on Match. We had some great banter, common interests and have a date scheduled. I had to really pep talk myself into sending that email, because I had sent five before that received no response. It can be hard when there are so few men who are remotely appealing on Match, and the ones that I do email most often ignore me. But I continue trying and tell myself that men are going through the same experience.
allheart, you’ve just described women as superficial objects who expect men to approach her for her looks, but then don’t want men to focus on her looks, sounds like a catch-22. Women can always avoid superficial bars, and try to meet men at church or someplace they don’t have to wear makeup. What do you want to talk to men about – sports, movies, kardashians, food, politics, the Bible, your emotions, your parents? Men and women are dull and boring most of the time.
josie, most men don’t have paid subscriptions on match and can’t write back. Men often send out hundreds of e-mails before getting one response, so your 5 e-mails is really nothing to worry about. Again, its not that there aren’t single men on match, it just seems that Alpha women don’t want to date the hundreds of un-appealing men on match.
AllHeart81 said: “I think most women wants a kind man that yes is charming, respects women, doesn’t make everything about her looks and sex and actually wants to get to know her as a fellow human being.”
Then why is the first question I hear from every woman: “how much money does he make?” or some variation of that. I think well-off/wealthy should be first on your list. It’s never “is he kind”, “is he a nice guy”, “does he like puppies”, …
Josie said: “I had sent five before that received no response.”
Kudos. It is really nice to see a woman putting herself out there.
To give you some kind of comparison, when I first signed up on OKCupid, within the first day I sent out probably thirty to forty messages that I initiated and many dozens of Likes.
Most messages were unanswered, around four were “you aren’t the level of looks/money/location/power/etc. I am looking for” (that kinda takes you back, but I guess it’s good she knows what she wants), a few were just one or two words (hmm… conversationalists?), and three of them are women who seem very nice that I have now chatted to a few times who are unfortunately too far away for a relationship. 🙂
The OP should keep dating!! I live in Auckland which demographically has a “man drought” as well. If I had listened to the media banging on about how there are not enough men here (and I should go live in a farming area and hook up with a lonely farmer) I would have given up. But I followed Evan’s advice and am dating the most wonderful guy with the highest compatibility and EQ I have ever found. He ticks two of Evan’s points – he’s an immigrant, like me, so he wasn’t even in the country a few years ago – and only recently came on the dating scene after healing from a divorce. I would have missed out on this treasure had I gone off online dating.
My dear, compared to quaint little Auckland, Sydney is huge and far more dynamic. New blokes are arriving from overseas and out of town/state every day. Keep perservering (but by all means go for it if you meet a hot American!)
I think you should consider moving. Especially if you dont have a fantastic job, close friends and family in Sydney. Why not? But do your research and make sure the job market and singles ratios are better. I say go for it.
There are really a lot of variables here. She mentioned the gay population like they’re dwindling down the numbers. Maybe she keeps seeing guys she likes and they end up being gay. Which brings a couple of questions. 1) Does she hang out with a gay friend and go places with a lot of gay people? If so then switch up your social circle. 2) Does she keep seeing men she’s attracted to, but they end up being gay? Which brings me to the question of what kinda guys does she like? If that’s true, then I say she likes the more metro or not so masculine look.
If she’s a thin gal with an average yet nice face, she’ll do very well here in the US, just to throw that out there.
Take it from this 44 y/o single female – Whatever you do, don’t move to Orlando, Florida! Single women far out number single heterosexual men. It’s a great place with lots of options if you’re a gay male. I think I’ll move to CA!
I don’t think the male gay population needs to be a deterrent, since presumably there is also a population of lesbians to balance it out. Neither of these groups even factor into your dating game.
This is all a mindset. Even if there are only 50 000 single available men in Sydney, how many can you realistically date in a lifetime? 50? 100 at a push? What is the likelihood that you won’t find ANYONE suitable amongst that group if you give it an honest shot? Honestly I live in a city where, objectively speaking, my pool of men I’d be prepared to date should be fairly small and all I see around me everywhere I go is eligible, interested, single men. I have not had trouble meeting a man or been without a quality date in years. There are plenty of things you can do to get a better mindset – my favourite two to start with are noticing all the guys who are checking you out wherever you go, you may not realise it but it’s true! And polish up your flirting skills. Without being forward or masculine there are so many things you can do as a woman to be more magnetic.
I can’t speak for Sydney but there are definitely places where the odds are stacked against you. I spent years in Geneva where I know women who can go years without a date and where it seems to me that expat women are practically fighting over men which is why (even though I otherwise loved the place) I left. This is a well known problem.
Back home for four years I can hardly claim to be a success story but I have at least been on many dates and dated two men for a few months. I may be struggling to meet a long term partner but it’s an improvement.
Yes, there are more men in Sydney than women.
Evan, shouldn’t your link say ,”Yes, there are more women in Sydney than men?” The OP’s complaint is that there’s a dearth of men.
Gah, stupid formatting!
I’ve lived in LA, NYC and SF(where straight educated successful men seriously outnumber women). In all places women complain about the lack of suitable men. Try changing your dating strategy.
the demographics of the whole planet are against women by midlife but who cares if you only want one? when I finally started getting out of the house and actively looking to date again, I met someone I will arrogantly describe as “”worth my time” more often than weekly. at my singles volleyball group and at ice hockey lessons ; at speed dating and PlentyOfFish; at the free summer concert series and in line at the grocery store. I just talk to everybody- guys without rings might be interesting, and married guys are just Smalltalk practice. I’d strongly encourage the poster to stay put and look more openly. if she’s already lonely enough to go for unavailable men what will it be like in a new place without her girlfriends?
I believe that women need to stop making long lists of mate requirements, and get out of the mindset of having to always date and marry up. You are going to miss a lot of great guys if you don’t drop (or lower) the date-filter. I’m not saying anyone has to settle, but my experience is that most women have unrealistic requirements for the man they want to date and marry.
There are most likely a lot of available men, and that pool of available people will be constantly changing.
Reasonable advice .. but if women actually did this, Evan and others like him would be out of a job 🙂
Women should not be so picky and not have filters…says the 53 year old man who won’t date a woman more than 2 years older than him but will date 10 years younger. Prejudiced much?
Everyone has a right to filters, but they then have to deal with the consequences of those filters. They may in fact filter out the best person who wanted to contact them, and end up settling on somebody they think is great, but ends up hurting them in some way, down the road. But that is their choice, and thus their fault when it doesn’t work out. But I don’t blame people. It is not easy, and maybe not even possible, to force yourself to accept something that is not attractive to you. If a woman is going to be a Cougar, and thus doesn’t want me, I am cool with that. I don’t want her trying to force it. I deserve better than that. Yeah I may be 7 years older than her, and she prefers the guy taking to her who is 9 years younger, but that is her choice. I am not going to be anybody’s fallback plan. I deserve better than that. I will find the right one for me, and she will 99% likely have to move on to the next younger guy who is just looking for short term relationship with her, to keep him happy until he finds the one he really wants. Everyone has to accept responsibility for the choices they make. I don’t blame women like that at all, and don’t wish any ill will towards them. Like I said, I know it is very hard, or even next to impossible to force something that just doesn’t work for you. I would be a hypocrite to judge her because I too find it hard to be attracted to an older woman. The difference between me and most guys I know is that I won’t lead them on and use them for a short term relationship. If at any point I know I don’t want a woman for a long term relationship, I let her know. I don’t want to waste a woman’s time. She deserves to know so she can move on to finding a guy that actually wants the same thing she wants.
However, I don’t feel guilty about wanting a woman my age and younger. I want very little from a woman compared to what women tend to want from a man. What I want is very hard to use filters, and this is true for most guys. I want to be attracted to her such that she excites me. This does not mean she has to be model good looking. The rest is personality, which involves a variety or personality traits. Affectionate, even tempered, patient, forgiving, generally happy, kind, enjoys good conversation, loyal, trusting, etc… Everything else is just details. I couldn’t care less if she is a Harvard Graduate, a CEO, business owner, popular, etc… By that I mean, if there are two women I am getting to know, and one is a Harvard Grad, it will not figure into whether I choose her over the other woman. Once I have made my choice however, I would be happy for her that she achieved things she wanted to achieve.
Men are just different about these things. We don’t need certain things that women do. Having filters and preferences do not make us any worse than they do for women. We all have a right to them, but we also have to accept responsibility for them. If we set those filters to unrealistic levels, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Stassi said: “Women should not be so picky and not have filters…says the 53 year old man who won’t date a woman more than 2 years older than him but will date 10 years younger. Prejudiced much?”
I’m not prejudiced at all.
Besides, it would be ageism, not prejudice.
And I never said women shouldn’t have some filters.
You seem to have it out for me and I don’t even know who you are.
And I’m not dating anyone right now, younger or older. I’m waiting until I can afford to move my business to a larger center.
While I was on OKC I filtered the search results for women who were between 43 and 60. And I’m 53. You do the math. That’s 7 years my senior.
I would have no problem dating a woman 5 years or more older than me, if we were compatible.
Of the few women in my direct area that fit this age range who were a match, or who replied, or who agreed to go on dates, there were only two. The rest of the women were too far away for me to even consider. Because of my remote living location, I’m not going to date someone 5 to 10 hours or more away. And at 53 I’m not going to up and quit my job on a lark and move to a new location just for a first date with a woman. If it doesn’t work out, then what? I have lost my job.
Yes, you should move. I wasted from age 29 to 38 in DC without so much as one boyfriend. I had a lot of dates, but no men ever wanted to get serious because even the unemployed guy who lived in his van had 3 women he was dating (true story, not a joke). I moved home to Texas and immediately had my first boyfriend in 9 loooong years! And I get asked out a lot. You have to move West of the Mississippi River to find a better female to male ratio. Get out while you can!
You’re not the first person I’ve heard of that went to Texas and had more luck dating. Both men and women. I wonder if this has to do with liberal/conservative cities. Maybe conservative places are easier to date? I’ve only lived in Austin(conservative by liberal standards but liberal by conservative standards) and I already had a gf at that time. But I do remember it was the only place where I actually knew my neighbors and people regularly said ‘hi’ to each other. I could imagine friendlier cities would be easier to date in.
Its likely that there are more sexually liberated liberal women who are available for casual dating and one nighters, so that a guy can have more options and not worry about committment or marriage or the hassle of relationships. In a conservative city, women will be more demanding of a steady relationship before having regular intercourse. The plethora of choice and ease of pre-marital intercourse, make it less likely for men to get married.
I just said the same thing. I live in DC and found the same thing I have lots of good dates but no one that wanted to get serious or many were telling all five women they were seeing that they were her one and only. I need to move!
Agreed 100%. I moved to Houston from Oklahoma City so it wasn’t a huge change culturally (I do like more alpha/traditional/southern men) but moving brought so many great changes to my dating life
1. You are new in town so you can reinvent yourself
2. It makes online dating less embarrassing. My tip is to online date people who are ALSO new to town who lack the usual network of people- they are generally of a much higher quality than the dudes who have lived here all their lives
Houston is a FANTASTIC place to date. I spent a year online dating up a storm. So many dudes from all over the world who are educated and work hard (mostly in oil & gas biz) and reasonable cost of living
I met the man I want to marry here 9 months ago 🙂
I live in DC and while women certainly outnumber men I have no shortage of dates. The issue is not quantity its quality in that most of the men are dishonest players which I think is a result of the fact that they can be! They can be because they know women outnumber them by far. Just saying it creates other issues.
Jon’s comments that ‘while all the handsome men are hitting on younger women’ may be true to some extent but it’s a huge generalisation and pretty unhelpful. Really?! Maybe some men are like that but I happen to think if someone sexy, they’re sexy – and sex appeal is not synonymous with age! The only guy who’s every said something similar to me in real life was a complete pillock !!
I agree. Any age can be sexy.
One of the women that I met on the online dating site was actually 5 years older than me (I’m 53 she is 57) and I think she looks great. Unfortunately she lives 5 hours away from me.
True about San Francisco Bay Area dating scene! the situation is SO favorable to women here. Those tech guys are not spoiled here as men are in some other cities/states. I started to actively date in July 2013, met my now husband in January 2014 😉 Ladies, leave NYC and D.C.!
That’s interesting, I’ve also known a lot of single women who complain about dating in the San Francisco Bay Area! But good for you for finding someone and congratulations on your marriage (but goes to show good and bad experiences are everywhere…I will say maybe these other women I know are doing something wrong and they’re too quick to blame the city)
Lived in Houston my whole life. Divorced, 41, female, multicultural, attractive and thinking about moving to DC. Its odd to hear how women like Houston over DC. D.C. came up as one of top 10 best cities for dating and (Houston wasn’t even on there).
The only personal issues I have are my dating skills are weak. Which I’m working on. I’m shy. Men have always approached me. They’ve just been the wrong ones.
As far as Houston, here’s my two cents for those wanting insight. Everything is very spread out and is a long drive, definitely need a plan, a car & designated driver when you head out for you and the crazies on the road. People are heavyyy drinkers out here in Texas.
Similar to what KATE said above, lots of Houston natives and many immigrants that are here (because of cost of living and jobs), and are not necessarily college educated or care to be. If you don’t mind thats great, but if you are and looking for someone like yourself, it can be tough.
Also, don’t be fooled by assuming being in the south that people are conservative, most young men here are not traditional, are not gentlemen and many feel entitled.
Plus, all men here have a different kind of excessive exposure to women in that Houston has the largest number of strip clubs of any city in the USA and these women are everywhere. At restaurants, bars, Walmart, dropping off kids at school, grocery shopping, soccer games, at the mall, post office, etc and they are very aggressive and build their careers on meeting as many men while out and about running errands and inviting them to come see them strip to spend their lunch & money and meet up after work as well. They make their living off of maintaining ‘friendships’ with committed established men and here we have lots of oil & gas & medical center industries. Don’t be surprised if you’re out at the nicest restaurant or most hole in the wall sports bar and they recognize your “traditional, conservative” date. Just saying.
Finally because of the cost of living being so affordable, a majority of people here are married/engaged/in serious relationships or young single (but well under 35). Just walk into any restaurant in Houston on the weekend, in any part of the city (upscale or otherwise) and you will see what I’m talking about.
Austin is very outdoorsy, less family oriented, but the city is very small, some not so safe parts and its all about informal, Texas-style bars and you need to be a drinker if you plan to go out otherwise you’ll be the only one. People walk around in shorts, jeans, flip flops, t-shirts, caps. They may shave and maybe not. Its a small country like city with not much infrastructure and can be boring (for single women) compared to Houston. I have a single female friend working in IT there and is dying to move back to Cali.
I’ve visited DC & LA and it seemed that west & east coasts, people are more career and eduction driven so I’m thinking are more likely to have singles (over 35). I suspect from my brief visits, guys seemed to have better approaches, conversations, seem more educated. I’m not looking to just date around but I am looking to find someone educated with goals and an interest to have a family.
Yes thats Sydney full of gay men, married looking for affairs and non committal types had to leave Sydney after being their for 25 years. Nearly all my single girlfriends experienced the same thing.
According to surveys Sydney has one of the highest rate of cheaters (mainly ) men in the world after the Ashley Maddsison Dating( the dating site that encourages people to have affairs) site was exposed. Plus yes its has the highest gay population in the world.
If your a single woman between the ages of 30 to 60 and beyond living in Sydney leave as fast as you can, I suggest Italy if you want to find men who like woman. Most woman Ive spoken to that are over 40 and single say they have to go overseas to get attention from men other wise they never meet any available single men.
I’m from and live in Seattle. There are TONS of dudes here. TONS. Many of them have great jobs and are very nice. That being said, they’re often of the nerdy, “beta” variety and/or are immigrants that aren’t necessarily integrated into American style culture. Amazon is building up like crazy here and I swear the city is teeming with men. I get asked out EVERYDAY. You want a date here? Just sit on the bus for twenty minutes (preferably around 8am or 6pm when they’re all traveling to and from work, but really anytime will do) and be prepared to say yes. No joke.
I also love Emms’ comments about strippers! As a part time stripper, everything she said is true to a T. Hilarious. I’ve never been to Houston, but many strippers go there to temporarily work and make lots of money in short bursts. It’s a Las Vegas type destination for sex work and is known for lenient rules in the clubs and very heavy drinking. Seattle in contrast is quite conservative and in public you can’t tell the strippers from the non strippers. When guys from Texas are in a club in Seattle, they’re like whhhhat? No alcohol? I don’t get to do anything I want to you?! You won’t meet up with me? Ha!
I have a friend who once worked at a hotel in the DC area that ran speed dating events. She said there was definitely more women than men especially when working with single professionals. However, she said speed dating works better when there are more women than men. Overall, there would be more requests for first dates from both men and women when women out numbered men. When there’s too many men, women hold back. She claimed that women were more comfortable when there’s more women. IMO, men act jerky when there is too much competition. Even though a lop-sided gender ratio can make dating more difficult, attitude goes a long way.
Try living in Scotland. I live semi-rural in the north in a small town where most people already know each other. I would do anything to live in a city and meet more men. I find it really hard to meet men because it’s difficult to meet new people and I can’t afford to always travel to busier population-centres. I graduated 4 years ago and just into my first real job now. I’m hoping I’ll build up enough work experience to apply for jobs elsewhere with more going on. I didn’t grow up in a small town to live out my days here. It may look beautiful but there’s not a lot of people around…