DISCOVER HOW SMART, STRONG & SUCCESSFUL WOMEN (THAT'S YOU!) CAN FINALLY Find Your Man
Take this short quiz
to discover what you need to do now.

The words “Marry Him” may irk you if you don’t wish to be married. The word “settling” has an inherently negative connotation. And all of us would agree that if you “settle” on the wrong man, you’re consigning yourself to a life of silent misery.
Thank god that’s not what this book is about.
In fact, it’s about how to find true love (including physical attraction, passion, and deep compatibility) by looking at what’s important in a long-term marriage, and letting go of the stuff that isn’t. And it’s about how to tell the difference, so you can marry the RIGHT guy for the RIGHT reasons.
Declaring that “Marry Him” is misogynist, misguided, stupid, wrong, or pathetic without reading it is the equivalent of thinking that Obamacare includes “death panels.”
You’d never know this if you were to Google Lori Gottlieb. In fact, from the press you may have read, you would have no idea what “Marry Him” is actually about. Posts are being written based exclusively on the title, with absolutely no care taken to look inside Gottlieb’s tome to see what she has to say.
Thankfully, I’m here to set the record straight for you, and for anyone else on the Internet who wants to jump to conclusions about this eye-opening and important new book. I’m doing this because if you want to find love, this book could change your life.
Declaring that “Marry Him” is misogynist, misguided, stupid, wrong, or pathetic without reading it is the equivalent of thinking that Obamacare includes “death panels.” In other words, reactionary critics have made a patently false claim that, once made, has to be vigorously defended against, even though it has no basis in truth. And it’s a shame, because Gottlieb’s book is an absolute gem.
The funny thing is, despite all the misguided attacks on Gottlieb, Gottlieb’s book doesn’t emphasize her opinion, per se. Like a sociologist trying to discern the truth, she has interviewed dozens of the country’s most respected experts in putting together “Marry Him.”
Gottlieb is a well-regarded journalist who has compiled the collective wisdom of psychologists, researchers, scientists, couple therapists, matchmakers, dating coaches, professors, clergy and married people, all filtered through the prism of this universal question: Why hasn’t an incredible catch like me found a husband?
If you have asked yourself that very question, you need to pick up this book. However, in case you’re still skeptical, I’ve compiled a list of misconceptions that you probably have about “Marry Him”, along with the truth about the contents of the book:
Issue #1 with “Marry Him“ “I will NOT settle on anyone. I would rather be alone than to settle!”
All she says is that if you’re holding out for a “10” in each area, you may find that you’ve missed the boat,and that the men available to you later on may even be MORE of a compromise.
Gottlieb completely agrees with you! Yes, the word in the book title is “settle.” However, it’s the wrong word to describe what the author means, and is probably a conscious decision by the publisher to provoke debate. The real word that Gottlieb means is “compromise” (which you will see when you read the book). And I think we can all agree that people who refuse to compromise in relationships will have a hard time forging a long-term partnership.
At NO point does Gottlieb conclude that you should go your entire life without attraction, humor, and intellectual stimulation. All she says is that if you’re holding out for a “10” in each area, you may find that you’ve missed the boat,and that the men available to you later on may even be MORE of a compromise. This is why she wrote “Marry Him.”
Her hope was to help smart, strong, successful women avoid falling into the same exact trap as she did: always going after a certain “type,” always putting butterflies above compatibility instead of looking for a healthy balance of both, believing that there’s always a better dating option around the corner, not fully understanding what marriage is truly about, etc. Frankly, I’m not sure what there is to disagree with.
Issue #2 with “Marry Him” “If I compromise then I will never feel love.”
This is not the message of the book at all. The message is that there’s a HUGE difference between settling down on a healthy, nurturing, comfortable, fun relationship and relegating yourself to an awful, boring, toxic partnership. Thus, Gottlieb’s message isn’t to “settle” on the latter, but to hold onto the former. She’s saying that we need both passion and compatibility, and that compatibility isn’t about whether you both like “The Daily Show” or are really into rollerblading.
It’s about whether you’re compatible on the day-to-day things that make a marriage work. From the book: “Most people don’t go into marriage thinking they’re settling. Most go into marriage believing that they’ve found The One. I doubt that the divorce rate is high because the people who supposedly settled are calling it quits. More likely, the divorce rate is high because the people who thought they were madly in love are realizing that they’d been looking for the wrong qualities in a spouse.”
…we need both passion and compatibility, and that compatibility isn’t about whether you both like “The Daily Show” or are really into rollerblading.
This is a very wise quote. Most people marry for passion, it’s that FEELING that gets them all the way down the aisle. What these chemistry-driven people often haven’t considered is what a 40 year marriage is all about: trust, compatibility, compromise, nurturing, selflessness. This is not to say that there’s NO passion, she’s saying that while passion has to be there, it may be wise to start valuing these other qualities at a younger age. One can very much be in love without feeling giddy and weak-kneed, and if you hold out for that feeling, you may just never get married.
Issue #3 with “Marry Him” “Gottlieb says that everyone MUST have a husband.”
Actually, she doesn’t. Not once. What she is saying is this: IF you want a husband and IF you want your own biological children, you might want to make healthier relationship decisions when you’re 30, because there are generally fewer (and lesser) dating options when you’re 40. That’s all.
It is not a screed against independent women who would rather be alone, focus on career, travel, hang out with friends, nieces, and nephews. If that’s what you want, God bless you! “Marry Him” is, by its very nature, for women who WANT to get married. That is assumed. It is not assumed that YOU want to get married. And if YOU don’t want to get married, it shouldn’t be at all threatening that there’s a book for women who really DO want to get married. Which is why any criticism on this point remains so specious.
Gottlieb’s book is for young women who want to go through life with a husband and could stand to learn from the wisdom she gathers from experts across the country. It is not for women who have no interest in this message. Getting upset that this book exists is as silly as getting upset that there’s a book about car repair when you personally don’t drive a car. It doesn’t threaten your world view at all, so give it a rest.
Getting upset that this book exists is as silly as getting upset that there’s a book about car repair when you personally don’t drive a car.
She’s not saying women need a husband. She’s not even saying she needs a husband. She’s saying she WANTS a husband, and that if you do, too, here’s some very valuable information she’s learned, both as a journalist, and as a single woman who realizes she made some mistakes. Someone out there wants what Gottlieb wants. In fact, many people do. This book is for THEM.
Issue #4 with “Marry Him” “Passion is the most important thing to me and I refuse to spend my life without it.”
Fair enough. Just know that in ANY relationship, there’s a trade-off between passion and comfort. Elizabeth Gilbert of “Eat, Pray, Love” fame just mentioned this in her new book, “Committed”. She cites a statistic that people who marry for being ‘in love’ get divorced MORE than people who marry for practical reasons. It’s not romantic to say this, but it’s reality. The fact is that most “passionistas” have a false set of EXPECTATIONS about what marriage REALLY is. Ask any married couple. It’s a perpetual compromise that millions choose to make instead of going at it alone.
So if you have found that in EVERY passionate relationship you’ve ever had that the man was selfish or volatile or uncommitted, guess what? That’s often what comes with the territory. Just look at your own life. If you want the building blocks of a 40 year relationship, you may have to trade off a little excitement for a little bit of safety and comfort. Nobody’s saying you have to give up ALL excitement. Once again, giving up on a “10” passion doesn’t mean NO passion. It means that you have enough attraction to sustain a relationship, you have a healthy sex life, and you very much enjoy the 90% of the rest of your lives that doesn’t revolve around sex.
Issue #5 with “Marry Him” “Gottlieb slams feminism, and I’m a feminist, therefore I don’t like Gottlieb’s message.”
What she does say is that the “never settle/never compromise” attitude espoused by women in the name of empowerment has created a dilemma for marriage minded women.
This couldn’t be farther from the truth. Gottlieb says quite clearly in the book that feminism isn’t the problem at all. The problem, she says, is that many women (herself included) MISINTERPRETED feminism to be about not compromising in any area of women’s lives, including the choice of spouse. As she writes in the book — “It’s not feminism, per se, after all feminism never published a dating manual.”
At no point does Gottlieb slam the equality achieved by feminists on behalf of all women. Nor does she say that women need men, need to be married, should sacrifice their independence or any of the other reactionary bunk that you may have assumed by reading blogs from people who couldn’t get past the title of “Marry Him”. What she does say is that the “never settle/never compromise” attitude espoused by women in the name of empowerment has created a dilemma for marriage minded women.
Namely, that attempting to “have it all” can be dangerous if misinterpreted, and if you want both the perfect career and the perfect family, there are tradeoffs and compromises to be made. That doesn’t mean you “settled”, it just means that life is complicated and nothing in life, not our friends, not our jobs, not our families, and not our spouses (oh, and not ourselves), is perfect.
Gottlieb never suggests that rolling back the clock is the answer, this should be clear, as the author is the consummate educated career woman. But in Gottlieb’s blind confidence that she could and should “have it all,” she realizes now that she passed up several men who would have made her quite happy, and finds herself wondering what she could have done different. There is nothing revolutionary or subversive about this. Gottlieb’s assertion that young women need to consider their life-choices and tradeoffs at a younger age is good, practical advice for women who have the same goals as she does: husband and (possibly) biological children.
Issue #6 with “Marry Him” “The author is pathetic and lonely and is speaking only for herself.”
…she realizes now that she passed up several men who would have made her quite happy, and finds herself wondering what she could have done different.
As someone who has known Lori Gottlieb casually over the years, I will say this. She’s not pathetic. She’s not speaking only for herself. Millions of women have the same desires, questions and frustrations hanging over them like a black cloud.
Is she lonely? Probably.
Then again, she’s no lonelier than anyone else who wants to go through life with a partner and doesn’t have one. Which is to say that Gottlieb is not all that different than you. She’s bright and driven. She’s both confident and insecure. She wants to live a fulfilling life. She’s vulnerable and honest, and brave enough to put herself out there and say things a lot of us wouldn’t admit in public. She never, ever wanted to settle, and she’s not telling you to do anything other than look at what makes for happy long-term marriages, open your heart to more possibilities, and then decide how you want to live your life. And if what you desire is to be in a loving and passionate but realistic marriage with a great guy, you truly can have it all.
From her own relatable confusion came the book, “Marry Him.” The opinions inside are not so much Gottlieb’s but those of others who specialize in relationships, myself included. But really, Gottlieb is just a surrogate for you, the reader, who may be struggling with the exact same issues: How much does one compromise? How do you know when it’s right? What should I look for in a long-term life partner, given my own life goals? So do yourself a favor.
Gottlieb is just a surrogate for you, the reader, who may be struggling with the exact same issues.
Don’t judge a book by its cover. If you do, you’ll be missing out on the amazing qualities that lie just beneath the surface. Pick up a copy of “Marry Him” and then let me know what you think. The book is coming out tomorrow and Lori will be on the Today Show to discuss it in the morning. I will also be attending both of her book signings in Los Angeles, if you want to come by and say hi.
Warmest wishes and many thanks.
Evan Marc Katz
I haven’t read this book, but I’ve read a lot about it and it’s already changed my way of thinking. I’m 27 and not married but I would like to be one day. I have a habit of writing men off after the first day if I don’t feel that “connection”, even if they seem like good guys who are interested in me. I think it’s time I started giving things more of a chance to develop, rather than writing it off after one 2 hour date. Not to say that I would continue to see someone if I’m absolutely not attracted to them either physically or emotionally, but just give things more of a chance. I’m still pretty young so I might have a bit more time to work with then other women, but I’m glad I’m coming to this realization now, rather then 10 years down the line. It’s not about “settling”, it’s about “compromising”…there’s a big difference and I agree with the theory.
Jake is my first real “long-term” relationship and now that we’ve been together 4 years, I can say that I have compromised on something every single day. But he also makes me happy and fulfilled in a way I’ve never been. So how could I resent the compromise that makes the happiness possible?
the reason she entitled the book that way was to stir controversy – even if its negative, it catches attention and it sells.
Amazon just emailed me saying my book has shipped! I cannot wait to read this. She was featured in an article in Elle or Marie Claire recently speaking about the book and her own life and it seems right on the money. Life is not a fairy tale so there’s no use waiting for Prince Charming to show up. Looking at the relationships around me, I think it’s pretty easy to see compromise is what makes a relationship work and no one (not even me!) is perfect. Thanks for promoting what I’m sure will be a great read!
Unfortunately, the title of this book really turns me off. If it is a conscious decision on the part of the author, I assume she means me, lol. It sounds like something every divorce lawyer would cheer. If it is about all those ingredients that keep people together, it sounds like settling down because you are tired. I am 44 years old, never married, and completely happy dating. If something does not work out, at least I have never landed in divorce court. I have had some wonderful, and fulfilling relationships along this path. I would never encourage someone to settle, rather to understand that no one is perfect, myself included. Every man I have been with has taught me something, most have taught me the most important lessons I have ever learned with no tuition to burden me later. Moving on is always painful, but so are a lot of other aspects of life. If this author wants me to believe something else about the work, a better title would help. Most of the reviews on the internet seem to have read the work. I, for one, don’t need to compromise with a man, I need better understanding, which is not compromise at all, it is intimacy. He never does anything for me, I haven’t needed to do for him on some other level. That’s what works for me, not simple accommodation which is what this book seems to promote to its readers, that’s where communication matters, not what a text purports to promote on its face. I also think the men I have been with would be insulted by the idea I “settled” for them rather than desiring them, regardless of the flaws that we all possess. I am a happy single, and actively dating. No problem. I like men, they are quite fun, and not a problem at all. I feel no pressure to conform to the 1.8 divorces per person of the culture. Let’s get happy here, and quit following canned advice. I like this blog when it responds to individuals.
And since when is compromise a bad thing?
If I stuck to my original “wish-list” of what I wanted (or more like required) in a man, I would not have even considered dating my current fiancé. And I can tell you that in no way do I feel like I am “settling” for him. I love him whole-heartedly and more importantly, he makes me happy.
The point of the book is that women should focus on the things that matter in sustaining a happy and healthy relationship rather than focusing on things that ultimately do not matter. For example, my original wish-list included a 6 figure salary and at the age of 23 I would not have settled for anything less. I was adamant that I was going to marry this perfect Prince Charming who had the perfect job with the perfect salary and we’d live in a perfect community and raise our perfect little children in in our perfect house with the white picket fence. Because why should I have settled for anything less? But now in hindsight (aka older and somewhat wiser), I realize that was a rather ridiculous requirement to have. Just because my fiancé makes 5 figures instead of 6, does not mean that I cannot have a fulfilling life and be happy with him. He makes a rather decent salary, as do I. So at the end of the day, we both make decent living wages and live rather comfortably and are happy.
Another requirement I also had was that I expected the man to physically take care of me in every way possible. I blame my first serious (now ex) boyfriend for having spoiled me so much that I started to expect that every other guy should offer me the same royal treatment. I never had to pay for anything nor did I ever have to drive anywhere. As a “man”, he took care of it all. And not surprisingly, I think a good amount of women might think that this sounds like a recipe for the dream relationship. But I can say firsthand, that these things do not necessarily equate to being happy in a relationship. He may have took care of me physically, but he rather ignored me emotionally.
So yes, in that sense, I compromised. And if that is what people consider “settling”, well, then yes I “settled” and I’m damn happy that I did.
This doesn’t mean that I think you need to read this book or heed the advice given. If you are perfectly happy with your life the way it is, that’s great! This book is NOT intended for everyone. No one is saying that YOU need to compromise or settle. But there is also no reason to think any less of this book and the women who do find value in the advice given. In your eyes, you see may see it as settling but to other women, they are finding their life partner.
I really should learn to check spelling and/or grammar before hitting post! Yikes!
*** EDIT ***
For example, my original wish-list included a 6 figure salary and at the age of 23, I would not have settled for anything less. I was adamant that I was going to marry this perfect Prince Charming who had the perfect job with the perfect salary and we’d live in a perfect community and raise our perfect little children in our perfect house with the white picket fence. Because why should I have settled for anything less?
*** EDIT ***
He may have taken care of me physically, but he rather ignored me emotionally.
*** EDIT ***
No one is saying that YOU need to compromise or settle. But there is also no reason to think any less of this book and the women who do find value in the advice given. In your eyes, you may see it as settling but to other women, they see it as finding their life partner.
I can’t speak for the author, but I think the title was the publisher’s idea. And, once again, the author doesn’t advocate a loveless marriage and future divorce. Perhaps you’ll read it, Angela, and let me know personally what you think. Thanks for your thoughts.
This recurring conversation wouldn’t happen if people didn’t translate
“Do not have perfectionist, unrealistic and or unlikely lists of demands”
Into:
“Settle for a loveless, passionless relationship with George Costanza”
I thought this book was very common sense. In fact, I’m actually surprised that many women are upset about the topic, especially those who want children. I’m sure Angela is happy but at 44 she’s probably not going to have biological kids. I have met many women who want to get married by 25 or 30 just so they can have kids before they get too old. Men can afford to wait, but if you don’t want kids then don’t get married. I feel sad for Gottlieb because she was so focused on perfection and even had a child with a faceless donor, that she got the perfect man seed without actually learning to compromise at all.
hey- at least George would keep you laughing.
I’m excited about this book. In fact, a lot of my personal experience bears it out.
When I first read the preceding article of that name, I was repulsed.
And then I met the love of my life. He made me feel things I’d never thought possible, and we connected on a hitherto unimaginable, cosmic level. We had terrific sex.
But after a time, it became clear to me that what I thought was Mr. Right was also Mr. Always Right. He was in addition impossibily commitmentphobic. He was faithful, attentive, and very romantic, but wouldn’t budge on the marriage issue.
These days, I think maybe I dodged a bullet. He’s still in my circle of friends, and I run into him occasionally. Now that I’m no longer passionately consumed with him, it’s hard to imagine how we could have gone the distance.
It would have been so easy for us to get married. We’d been together over a year. We had a ton in common, and he was very passionate about me. We never fought- but later I realized it was because I usually just let him have his way. Looking back, I made very few of the decisions. If he hadn’t had bad childhood experiences that led to him being anti-marriage, I could have, blinded by passion, very easily walked into an unhappy marriage with this man.
Throughout my whole experience with Mr. Always Right, my best friend, Mr. Unexciting, was there. He stayed up with me and listened to me whine and cry about how Mr. Always Right didn’t love me enough to marry me. And if he loved me, wouldn’t he marry me? And should I give him an ultimatum? Should I move in? I did this for MONTHS. He was always there, like he always had been.
My relationship with Mr. AR exploded spectacularly around Christmastime. We exchanged presents anyways, because we’d already bought them. He got me books.
A few days later, on Christmas Day, Mr. Unexciting drove five hours in a blizzard to give me my Christmas present. I realized that day that he was in love with me. And had been for a long time. I’d never thought twice about him, because I didn’t feel the butterflies, the weak knees. I didn’t get that weird and intoxicating “we knew each other in a past life” vibe.
But you know what? I’ve gradually become ok with that. He pursued me relentlessly after the breakup, and finally I gave in because frankly, I ran out of reasons not to.
I’m really surprised how happy I am these days. With him, it’s a quiet sort of happy.
One of these days, Mr. Unexciting will ask me to marry him. I know this as sure as I know the sun will rise tomorrow, and when he does, I’ll say yes.
Does this mean I’m settling? Maybe to some people. It’ll never be as exciting or passionate as it was with Mr. AR. But every relationship that’s had that ridiculous amount of passion has left many other things to be desired. IMO, passion doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t be together, but it does a great job of obscuring when you SHOULDN’T.
When I walk down the aisle, it will be with eyes wide open, toward a man who, despite the fact that he looks nothing like Prince Charming, cared enough about me to wait for me, pursue me, and want a life with me. YMMV, but I’m with Gottlieb 100% on this one.
tl;dr: It’s not an issue of stopping waiting for Mr. Perfect and acquiescing to the first warm body who approaches you with something shiny. It’s about realizing that passion is a poor indicator of compatibility. If you’ve got to view it as settling, just remember this: winding up with a decently attractive man who will be a great father, who will work for an honest day’s living and who loves you very much is one hell of a silver medal.
Love the above post – Mr. Unexciting sounds very exciting in terms of a mate! My passion-filled relationships, where I would have the nervous/butterflies in my stomach symptoms, never went anywhere so I am looking for a man who will be there for me in a million different ways………..
I just ordered the book through amazon.com – thanks to Evan, I have started to look way beyond the “hot” men and for the real substance………..men I would not have normally given much attention to. I find this new “type” of man I am dating to be much more “marriagable”, which is my relationship goal……..
InaccessibleRail said: (#10)
“passion doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t be together, but it does a great job of obscuring when you SHOULDN’T.”
Evan, you might want to file this one away in your list of great quotes.
Angela Crisp said: (#5)
“I, for one, don’t need to compromise with a man,”
I agree that you can continue to live a happy and fulfilling life without a man.
But if you want a long-term relationship, compromise will have to be part of it. When you and your boyfriend disagree, you need to be able to compromise. If not, any little disagreement becomes a dealbreaker (if he is also uncompromising). The other possibility is that he gives in and does things your way every single time.
Think about how distasteful that kind of relationship would be if you were the one giving in every single time. That’s exactly how unappealing that situation is for a man when it’s reversed.
Nothing at all against men… but shouldn’t a similar book be written for men with the title “Marry Her”?
From where I sit and observe, it’s all my girlfriends who are waiting for their boyfriends to propose. It’s my girlfriends who have already decided that they’re happy with their men just as they are – no need to change anything, no need to “trade up.” Instead, it’s the men who hem and haw about whether their girlfriends are really the “right one.”
All that Gottlieb says is true for men, is true for women too. We’ll never be “perfect.” We’ll never be “just right.” But if we love you and make you basically happy and comfortable, and you love us in return… well, why not?
@ Helen # 13
Nothing at all against men ….. but they don’t buy books for themselves and they don’t read books. Women do. Men are acting and re-acting on life.
No words for them but actions.
Your girlfriends they need to make very clear (by actions, but not ultimatums!) that it’s very important for them to marry….and otherwise they will move on. Don’t be passive and act on your feelings and desires. The girlfriends are making their men happy and comfortable. Are their men making them happy and comfortable?
That is the only way their boyfriends will ……”realise”…… If their boyfriends let them walk away…. than the love isn’t reciprocal….. very simple principle, very difficult to practice but very true. A loving man will not make his woman walk away from him.
And:
There are books written about this issue 🙂
“Men don’t read books.” Amusing. I’m a 25 year old male and I have read hundreds of books. Many on dating. The comments here pain me at times.
Gotta wonder if the publisher’s had chosen a less offensive title they would sell more books. As it stands, many women who might benefit from the insights of the author (what ‘settling’ is and what it isn’t) probably won’t bother with it.
Good review Evan.
Never read the book but I can see the common sense in it. However, how many women honestly are holding out for Mr.Perfect? Are women marrying later in life? Yes. But does that have to do with only women’s choices or the fact that men today are also less likely to settle down? I don’t think the amount of women today that aren’t married and childless is only due to the fact that they won’t settle.
I think this book would fair better if it was advice on why people shouldn’t hold out for perfection. This is not a character trait prone to only women. Yes women buy self help books more but if the book had been geared to people in general, women still would have bought it.
I also think the book purposely takes an offensive stance, after all that sells and makes people talk. So it’s pretty responable to see why it put some women on the defense. The title is meant to do just that and it’s accomplished it task. I think it’s also had alot of men in turn say something along the lines of “look, see, look what happens when you women wait to long. You get old and no one wants you. Oh well on you. ” A sort of backhanded glee it seems, especially when men proudly state how *they* can wait all they want. Interesting though how men want to wait but women to settle down as soon as they are legal.
Overall though I don’t disagree with the basic message of the book. But just like the books before it, IE “He’s Just Not That Into You” , and other, it seems like the industry feeds off of shaming women a bit and playing on their insecurities. And apparently enough women eat it up to make these things sell. Masochits much ladies. 🙂
think it’s also had alot of men in turn say something along the lines of “look, see, look what happens when you women wait to long. You get old and no one wants you. Oh well on you. ” A sort of backhanded glee it seems, especially when men proudly state how *they* can wait all they want. Interesting though how men want to wait but women to settle down as soon as they are legal.
ideal age for fertility is 16 to 22. Once a woman is past 22 her chances goes down. When she in her 30’s her chances of having healthy children goes down even more. By 40’s there’s a very slim chance of women being able to get pregnant.
Men are usually attracted to women fertility, that’s simple. You can see quite a few men in their 50’s with women half their age. Even if the guy is fat and old looking.
Helen, I was thinking something similar. There are just as many men focused solely on being swept away in a flood of passion and nothing else. They do not see the women that would make great wives, partners and mothers, assuming that is what they are hoping to find. I understand why so much of this material is aimed at women, but sometimes I grow weary of it. How can a woman seriously consider the material in Lisa’s book and change her views and actions, if the men she meets are not doing the same?
As for committment phoebic men, I recently read an interesting article that basically tied a man’s view of commitment, including marriage to the kind of environment he was raised in as a child. Of course, everything is objective.
Women in long term relationships hoping and pining away for the day when their special guy will commit to marriage need to be ready and above all, strong, to take the road that will lead them to the truth. And if that truth involves heartbreak, then they will be free to find a man who will not only want to commit, but will commit.
I have a very good friend who dated a man for several years. They were crazy about each other. She wanted to get married and he hemmed and hawed for what felt like forever. She finally told him that she was moving on with her life, with or without him. She moved to another state, started a fantastic new job, and left her dear love behind. What do you think happened? After a few months without her, and realizing that as painful as it was for her to leave him, she had the strength and the fortitude to live a life without him, he realized how much he didn’t want to lose her forever and they have now been married for a number of years in a beautiful house they remodeled together.
Sometimes you have to risk everything in order to have it all.
I caught Ms. Gottlieb’s clip on “The Today Show” this morning and thought she got the point across rather well considering the brevity of the interview. Mostly how it was about being picky, concentrating on the superficial traits opposed to the ones desired for long lasting happy relationship. She said when interviewed, men would come up with 3 reasons they wouldn’t give a woman a second date – women would come up with 300 for a man!
It was also amusing when she explained at one time she wouldn’t go out with a guy simply if he was named “Sheldon.” If someone has such* high standards* they are finding they can never connect with anyone, this might be a worthwhile read.
I think a better word is subjective; not objective. I need my morning fuel. 🙂
Great review Evan.
While I know some women like this exist, I have a hard time believing that there are hordes of women out there that will pass up an otherwise fabulous man because he’s not fluent in French, went to Princeton instead of Yale or some other easily remedied/not crucial to day-to-day life issue. Maybe this is why some women are having such strong negative reactions without even reading the book- because they are not those kinds of women and struggle with the concept that women like that exist.
A solid point, Jennifer. Yet, in the media capitals where I’ve resided – New York and LA – there are a LOT.
Check out this book excerpt and let me know what you think: http://web.archive.org/web/20100810191618/http://today.msnbc.msn.com:80/id/35224012/ns/today-today_books/
@ Angela Crisp #5,
the book isn’t for you – at your age, you probably won’t get to have a biological kid. If you do want to have a biological kid in a wedlock, then you are exactly what the book is talking about – waiting too long to marry have a Mr. Perfect that you can’t have a biological kid in a wedlock any more.
@Evan #21
I think the book is definitely worth a read; when someone has taken the time to gather the perspectives of several different people on a subject (dating coaches, matchmakers, marriage counselors, etc.), you’re bound to come away with some interesting insights.
if the author chose the title for shock value/publicity, it seems like it’s working
It’s 2010- no woman should have to compromise their standards and settle for Mr. Right Now or Mr. Good Enough. With thousands of dating and social networking sites available, why not make the effort to find exactly what you want? There are dating sites for every type of woman out there …
I think the real issue facing most women is that they’re not in touch with reality. Get out there and explore opportunities and then make a fair assessment of yourself. What league are you in? Can you move up the ranks with more practice? While some people want to settle down as soon as possible, those of us who believe in finding the best, and are willing to use the opportunities at hand, will probably have a better chance of finding the perfect mate!
I really hope that things have improved for Lori Gottlieb since her original article came out in The Atlantic almost 2 years ago. In that piece, she came across as a depressed, overworked single mom. In fact, in much of the article, she complains about her single-mom status. And because she now has her son to think about, and the men she meets as a 40-something single are SO bad, settling is out of the question.
Well, at least she got a nice book deal out of it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/single-marry
After reading the comments, I do agree that its usually the MEN who are unwilling to commit. Now WOMEN have tried to act like MEN and never settle down. Unfortunately, most women can’t wait past 35 to have kids. Most WOMEN OUTSIDE of NYC have learned to adapt and settle down with Men willing to get married. It seems that in cities such as NYC, Men and Women have so much choice, that there is NO URGENCY to get married. Perhaps this is Survival of the Dumbest and the ambitious city women can’t find a husband to procreate. Feminists can act like Bachelor Men, but is that a good thing?
Jenny said: (#25)
“With thousands of dating and social networking sites available, why not make the effort to find exactly what you want?”
You’ve overlooking one crucial element: Time.
You can skim hundreds of social networking sites and find Mr. Right. You may even be able to find Mr. Right who is also interested in you. But when you’re skimming the social networking sites, all you’re really finding is someone who is “Perfect On Paper.”
Up until a few months ago, millions of women would have said Tiger Woods was perfect (attractive, wealthy, successful, ambitious, clean reputation, family man).
When you find someone who seems perfect on one of those social-networking sites, then you know that at least a thousand other women have also spotted him. So you will have stand out in a crowd of a thousand other women. And you’ll also have to wonder … if he’s as perfect as he seems, why hasn’t some other woman snagged him yet?
It takes time to discover whether someone possesses the most important traits: ethics, integrity, respect, trust, loyalty, compassion. The people who lack these traits don’t always advertise it. So you have to spend some time in a relationship with him in order to determine whether he really has these qualities. This may take 3 months or 6 months or a year.
If he turns out to be lacking, then you have to go back to your social-networks and search for the next “Perfect On Paper” man.
“While some people want to settle down as soon as possible, those of us who believe in finding the best, and are willing to use the opportunities at hand, will probably have a better chance of finding the perfect mate!”
If you’re planning on having kids, you probably want to get married while you’re reasonably young. That might give you 5 to 15 years of hunting for a spouse before you need to start making babies. Let’s assume you can adequately get to know two potential spouses per year; that means you have about 10 to 30 potential spouses you can thoroughly examine to see if they have the most important qualities.
That’s a finite number. And if you ditch number 15 (because you think you can do better), you can’t necessarily go back and get him if you later decide that you were wrong.
If you don’t want kids, then your options are much broader. You can spend as many decades as you want searching for the perfect mate, as long as you’re patient enough.
You can set your own priorities. But I’d rather spend the rest of my life married to someone wonderful, rather than spend most of it searching for someone who is a little more wonderful.
I have to say that in my experience it’s usually women who are pickier than men. Though I will also say many (most?) men aren’t interested in settling down no matter how wonderful the woman is until he reaches a certain point in his life. That point usually being defined by reaching some educational/career/financial milestone. But once they get to that point, they’re not all that picky.
One of my dearest friends has a list that is probably not all that different from the one that Lori Gottlieb had in the excerpt shown at Today’s website. And I am worried that she may get to a point years down the road where she wishes she had done something different with her love life now. But at the moment she is happy with where she is and has no desire to change, and you can’t make decisions for other people.
As far as the title goes, I wish it was something different because I am interested in reading it but am rather afraid of the message that would send to my boyfriend with whom things are quite serious. Don’t want to being going around sending mixed messages. 😉
Well A-L, you could always “disguise” the book by putting a different jacket on it.;)
For all those men who say that women need to settle if they want kids, but men have the option of waiting, I think a lot of you will find out the hard way that you don’t. If you are 45, 50 or older, unless you’re Mr. Gotbucks (if you’re really old) or Joe Studly (if you’re not THAT old yet) you will find that a lot of 20 and 30 something year old women will NOT be interested in you, and the ones who ARE will be 3s and 4s rather than 8s or 9s. And 8s or 9s are especially not interested in being tied down with your rug rats and no money. Seriously guys, get a reality check grip.
A-L-
Sorry to be nosy :-), but I’m curious. Did you meet your b-friend online? If so- what site was it on? Only if you want to say.
A Reader, you’re right on. Whenever I was on OkCupid, I was constantly getting hit on by 45, 50 year old guys. I’m certainly willing to consider someone a little older, but NOT someone older than my dad! I’d personally rather be with a “5” that’s my own age than a 50-year-old “10”, assuming all other things are equal. I’d imagine that I’m pretty typical in this respect.
What’s odd about the book is that it doesn’t make the case for DIVORCE – the Starter Marriage. I haven’t read it, but is there anything wrong with getting married young-ish and having a child. Sure there are some financial consequences, but more people are divorced young than the single career woman. A woman or man that wants to get married WILL get married despite not being perfect. We need to discuss single moms and dads who “settled” and have children, but are divorced because they are unhappy. A woman can fulfill her biological needs, get alimony, and find a better boyfriend! I think a lot of men don’t have the need to have kids like women, if they do they can freeze their seeds or eggs!
Aw, come on Karl! Relax a bit…
Nobody is claiming that dating sites are the panacea, but I am saying that they increase your odds by providing more opportunities to find someone great. I do agree with you that daters should do the “sniff test” no matter where they meet someone. Simply put, dating sites provide the introduction, but the approach is up to you.
Oh, and speaking of time, Karl, perhaps you don’t have much time for online dating because you spend too much of it commenting on dating blogs instead of sending messages to hot girls. JK – got love for you Karl 😉
Here are some interesting statistics from a study done by The Council on Contemporary Families:
College-educated women are still getting married at very high rates. The reason for the decline in marriage among the 25-44 female demographic is that the poorest and least-educated women tend not to marry. Also, a higher age of marriage is actually associated with a lower probability of divorce. And college-educated white women (unlike college-educated black women) are slightly less likely to marry than their less-educated counterparts (with the exception of those with only a high-school degree). But when they do marry, they are less likely to divorce, so that by age 40, they are MORE likely to be married than other women, many of whom have already divorced. And a college-educated 40-year-old woman is twice as likely to get married in the next 10 years as is an unmarried 40-year-old with just a high school degree. College-educated women are more likely to report themselves as happy than any other group of women and much less likely to think that “financial security is the main benefit of marriage.”
Maybe Gottlieb is preaching to the wrong audience?
Mr Katz-
You invited us to post on your site, so here I am.
I’d point out that Gottlieb’s Atlantic article included the following excerpts:
Oh, I know I’m guessing there are single 30-year-old women reading this right now who will be writing letters to the editor to say that the women I know aren’t widely representative, that I’ve been co-opted by the cult of the feminist backlash, and basically, that I have no idea what I’m talking about. And all I can say is, if you say you’re not worried, either you’re in denial or you’re lying
So any woman who’s not worried about being single is a liar or in denial? Doesn’t sound very accepting of singles to me.
But the only choices on the table, it sometimes seems, are settle or risk being alone forever.
Now, though, I realize that if I don’t want to be alone for the rest of my life, I’m at the age where I’ll likely need to settle for someone who is settling for me
The exaggerated, stereotypical phrases…”alone forever”, “alone the rest of my life” So if you don’t marry, you become a hermit?
By 40, if you get a cold shiver down your spine at the thought of embracing a certain guy, but you enjoy his company more than anyone else’s, is that settling or making an adult compromise?
I’m sorry, but accepting someone who sends a “cold shiver down your spine” isn’t a case of accepting an “8” instead of a “10”, that’s marrying at any cost.
I know you advise people on love, so it might be hard to imagine that some people don’t seek marriage, or even relationships. But we do exist, and we’re not liars, in denial, or hermits.
Alan,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Your points are well taken. Here are my two cents:
Gottlieb’s original Atlantic article was a five page inner monologue that got a disproportionate amount of attention and analysis. It certainly makes certain assumptions that are not true, and I’m sure Gottlieb herself would acknowledge it. The thing I’ve observed is that everyone is extrapolating from the article what the book, “Marry Him” is supposed to be about…and they’re wrong.
The book is Gottlieb’s exploration as to why she – and women with similar desires of husband and biological children – have had such difficulties in achieving their goals. As my blog post said, the book does NOT say that you’re in denial for wanting to be single, it does NOT say you should marry at any cost, it does NOT say that single life is miserable.
These are all criticisms that are being inferred by everyone offended by Gottlieb’s original article because they feel personally indicted. What I don’t understand is: if Gottlieb deeply, deeply wants to get married and advise other women who have similar desires to heed her advice… why are people in such an uproar? You can keep being happily single forever. Her book should not threaten your worldview one iota. Perhaps you can explain to me why a book about the realities of marriage – for women who WANT it – should bother someone who DOESN’T.
Because from the intense bile being spewed at Gottlieb across the blogosphere, it feels a little bit like, “Thou dost protest too much”.
I sincerely thank you for taking the time to air your views on my blog – and for acknowledging that I generally give advice to people who DO want to have a relationship. I don’t judge anyone who doesn’t agree with me. I would hope that folks like Gottlieb and myself wouldn’t be judged as well.
So why isn’t gottlieb married if she has all the answers? time passed her by? is that the story here?
Seriously, y’all. Read the book. Why was I able to give advice for years before I was married. Why can Dr. Phil write a diet book if he’s overweight. You don’t have to have a ring on your finger to have wisdom, that’s for sure. More importantly, the reason the book exist is because she DIDN’T have the answers. The book is her quest to learn why women like her struggle in love. It’s an exploration, not a manifesto.
It’s a book for women who want to get married and have babies, right? Nothing in it for me, so why would I read it. I don’t care about womens eggs, and that’s what it all comes down to, doesn’t it. I could barely make it thru her article ’cause of all the hysterical stuff. Tho nice to hear a woman telling other women to go out with guys they otherwise would reject. Makes our job easier. 🙂
To the host of this blog: You might read Dr. DePaulo’s research then and eradicate the instances of slights against singles in your language. Your site is rife with them. On her site and in her book she gives many examples of the ways in which singles are put down and discriminated against–one of those ways is to assume that everyone wants/needs/is desperate to be married, or that being married is better than being single, or that there is something wrong with people who are single. Dr. DePaulo calls this phenomenon “matrimania.” In my view, despite your claims to being open to single people, you seem to fall into the matrimania trap quite often.
I’m glad to hear that Gottlieb’s book avoids the pitfalls of her article.
As to all the anger, I can’t speak for everyone but I can tell you how it was received here in my section of the single crowd.
When Gottlieb wrote her original article, DePaulo wrote a rebuttal on her site. Gottlieb responded to the rebuttal with a post full of snark and stereotypes about singles. So that might be one reason.
Another might be advocacy. Previously myself and other single people would have let stereotypes and slights slide by without comment. Now that we’re part of a (quite small) movement we feel the urge to speak out.
And yet another might be that we’ve heard much worse comments, both online and in person. Which tends to make you strike back when you get the chance
so- I spent today reading a good part of this book at B&N. Not the whole thing, but enough to give me one of a series of wake-up calls I’ve had in the past couple of months. I totally saw myself in this book- and am grateful I’m (I think) learning my lesson at 31 instead of 41.
I’m wondering now if I really should have given a chance to some of those one-date wonders I passed up as ‘non-exciting’, ‘awkward,’ etc. in my 20s. Because as I was reading her current dating horror stories (speed dating with 60 year olds), I was thinking, shit, that could be me in ten years.
One thing she said in particular really stuck with me- that she, and other women of our generation, have been so concerned about ‘finding ourselves’ and perfecting our careers before finding love, that love just passed us by. For me, I was dead set that I first had to concentrate on knowing who I was as a person, etc. before I took my love life seriously. I didn’t factor in that the dating pool would be dwindling in only a few years while I found myself. Now- I’m not knocking my quest for self-knowledge, or anyone else’s, but I wonder- could I have been with someone and still have found myself?
Being Indian, It was interesting reading about the Indian women’s perspective on marriage, particularly arranged marriages, and how one happily married woman said yes to a match because ‘there was nothing wrong with him.’ LOL But at the same time, I’ve also seen unhappy marriages in my community, that I wonder, could have been avoided if the parties had just dated other people to see what’s out there instead of marrying the people they first met. At the same time, dating around seems to have created a lot of problems in American dating culture as well…so I don’t know- it sounds all complicated, right?
Thanks, Jamie. Since my clients are women who are willing to invest thousands of dollars to achieve their goals of marriage, it’s only logical that my advice caters to them. And I’m not exactly sure why someone who would rather stay single would go to a dating coach. The way I see it, folks like Gottlieb and I are reaching our target audience. If that’s not you, why worry? Because honestly, I have no problem with anyone who wants to stay single – my issue is with the vehement defensiveness.
I am certainly open to marriage if the right guy appears. Maybe my situation is different because I don’t want kids, and am past that age anyway. If I’m not married by age 40, does that mean my life is over, or that I’ll never marry? What I resent is a woman who CHOOSES to be a single mother, doesn’t realize how hard it’s going to be, regrets her own choices, and then uses fear-mongering to make single women think that they’re single because they’re too picky, and now it’s just too late.
If you really want marriage and children by a certain age, then yes, you may have to compromise. That’s not pickiness, it’s making a realistic choice based on your own circumstance. Just because Gottlieb made the wrong choice for herself, doesn’t mean that other singles are necessarily doing the same thing. If you think you’re “too picky”, then sure, read the book. Any woman who wants to get married that badly can find a warm body who’ll step up.
I realize that Gottlieb’s book is not the original Atlantic article, but they are both by the same writer, writing on the same subject. IMHO, the original article sent a very negative, bitter message. If the book eases up on the tone of the Atlantic article to provide some real insights, great.
That’s not pickiness, it’s making a realistic choice based on your own circumstance.
Oops, meant to say “That’s making a realistic choice based on your own circumstance”.
JOe asked: (#41)
“It’s a book for women who want to get married and have babies, right? Nothing in it for me, so why would I read it.”
If you ever want to get married, some of the information might apply to you.
And while you aren’t a picky woman, I’m betting that you encounter a fair number of them when you’re dating. It might be useful to have some insight into what they’re thinking.
JOe said: (#41)
“Tho nice to hear a woman telling other women to go out with guys they otherwise would reject. Makes our job easier.”
That’s one of those pieces of information that can be equally useful for men. Last year I realized that most of the women who didn’t want kids (and didn’t have them) were at least five years older than me. While I was already dating women who were in that range, I realized that I would benefit by focusing my efforts there.
Jenny said: (#35)
“Karl, perhaps you don’t have much time for online dating because you spend too much of it commenting on dating blogs instead of sending messages to hot girls. JK”
If I start online dating again, my girlfriend is going to get pissed…
And online dating accomplished far less for me than meeting women face-to-face. As Evan has pointed out previously, online dating has its own set of benefits and flaws.
On a more serious note, this blog serves an extremely useful function in my relationship. It provides an easy way for me to bring up serious topics with my girlfriend: “You wouldn’t believe what someone posted on the blog today…”
To the host: Oh, I thought that this was a site for single people who were dating. I didn’t realize it was a site for women looking to get married–that you were a matchmaker of sorts. You might clarify that in your marketing.
But before you criticize Dr. DePaulo’s work, you might read her book. No defensiveness there. Surprised that that’s what you take away.
I just started reading the book (well, actually, I’m listening to it), and I have to agree with Jennifer that I feel this book is addressing a very particular type of woman. A woman who in her teens, 20’s and 30’s had no problem attracting men, getting dates, and getting boyfriends. The fact that they have had an abundance of men at their disposal makes it very easy for them to feel that they can, in fact, hold out for something better. While I believe Evan when he says that lots of women in New York and Los Angeles are like that, I think there are lots of other women who have not had that experience when men and dating….we’ve not had men at our beck and call from a young age. We have not ever had the luxury of being so picky as to break up with a guy because he hasn’t seen Casablanca or because he likes to make up words. Perhaps that’s why there is push back from these women because for them settling would have to mean accepting someone who is physically and sexually unappealing, unkind or abusive because their list of requirements is so short to begin with that they have no where else to go if they are told to settle.
The other impression that I am getting early on is a very negative view of women single. There is definitely the suggestion that single women in their late 30’s and 40’s who have not married are miserable and somehow flawed. It’s just an early observation that may change as I read I mean listen to more.
@Jamie – it is a site for single people who are dating. The vast majority of people who are looking for advice are hoping to establish a long-term relationship, if not necessarily a husband and kids. Thus, most readers and clients are very serious about not repeating previous mistakes and wanting to make better decisions down the road. I’d like to think I provide decent guidance, I really have no idea why someone who isn’t serious about finding a lasting love connection would invest much time or money in a guy like me. Entertainment, perhaps?
@Kenley – You make a good point, one I hadn’t considered before. I don’t think it’s a flaw in the book, per se, but it is specific to a certain type of woman – one who has had many dating options and was so selective that she ended up alone. Thanks for calling that to my attention.
@51: So everyone who is on a date is necessarily scoping out the long-term potential of this stanger/near-stranger? Heavens. Sounds awful.
Didn’t say that, Jamie. However, I think we can agree that most people don’t date simply for fun. They date because ultimately they’re hoping to find a lasting connection. That doesn’t mean bringing up marriage on Date 1. But I’m pretty sure that most women ARE scoping out long-term potential of a stranger on a date. Readers, correct me if I’m wrong. I certainly have been before…
Evan-
Man, it’s a shame you’ve got to repeat yourself so often- but I guess that’s the negative of having new readers join everyday.
RE: Kenley’s #50 & Evan’s #51
I don’t think that think that this book is only for those people who have lots of dating experience. I’d say it’s also excellent for the overachievers of the world. Those who always strived to do well in school, were leaders in various organizations, are are pegged as outstanding in their field. These people may not necessarily have dated a whole lot, possibly because they were focusing on other things. But because they tend to be or have “the best,” they also expect that from their love life. They have extraordinarily high expectations for their significant other and don’t necessarily think about how realistic those expectations are. I think this book would be excellent reading for them, not just those who had tons of dating choices in the past but were too critical.
@54: Oh, I’m not joining this blog. 🙂
@ EMK #51
“Entertainment perhaps?”
Well yeah. 🙂 A couple years ago I got hooked on this blog because I enjoyed your writing and also that of the commenters. Now, I especially find your video clips entertaining!
What keeps me reading every week is not the focus on finding a mate, but the different POV’s shared on relationship topics. Fascinating sometimes.
I agree, Selena. I am not defensive about my choice to stay single, but I’m here for the same reasons you are. I do find this blog interesting and entertaining. It’s kind of a cyber version of people watching.
I do realize that if the right man came along, I would re-think my singlehood thing. I’m not holding out for someone out of my league, being too picky, etc. I’ve always been somewhat of a loner. I don’t hate being single so I don’t have much motivation to get into circulation. I’m not knocking anyone who does, and good on you if you’re looking for a relationship. It’s certainly a legitimate desire.
@ Jamie
Given the big header at the top of the blog:
” I Am A Personal Trainer For People Who Want To Fall In Love”
– what did you think the blog was about?
A-L,
You might be right that women without a lot of dating options could benefit from this book. However, based on what I have read so far, the women Gottlieb interviews and upon whom she bases her conclusions/recommendations, are women who have dated a lot of men and it seems to me because of that fact, they find it very easy to discard men for trivial reasons. As a woman who has not had “men coming out of my ears” as one of the women she interviewed stated, I personally find it very hard to relate to the stories of these women who would break up with great guys because the guy liked science fiction or because the guy didn’t send the RIGHT flowers for Valentine’s Day.
One thing that I have also learned from reading the book which I think will surprise people is that Gottlieb is NOT telling women to go without chemistry or attraction. In fact, there are stories of women who let guys go with whom they did have chemistry and attraction because the guy did not meet ALL of the 1001 requirements they had for a guy. It’s not even that they guys were treating them poorly — it was simply the guy didn’t meet every single little item or their list. That is really the point of her book. She’s saying if you’ve got a list of 300 hundred things a man must have in order to be marriage material, you’ve got to shorten that list to only include the things that really matter for a successful long term relationship.
I like and agree with her assertion that women should have lists that are more realistic and more predictive of a good long term relationship. However, her insistence that every woman really does want a husband and children bothers me. I don’t have any problem with women who want that. In fact, I know that most women do. However, Gottlieb argues that women who say they don’t want marriage and children are lying are delusional. I don’t think that is fair or true. She paints a picture that ALL women in their 40’s who aren’t married are unhappy and lonely and that marriage is the only remedy for them. What about the scores of unhappy and lonely married people? How can marriage be the ONLY solution. Again, I want to clarify that I am not saying that marriage isn’t great and wonderful for some people. What I am having a hard time accepting is Gottlieb’s black and white, all or nothing position. For her, it seems that marriage and children are the only road to happiness for women who are honest with themselves. I have NEVER wanted to be married or to have children. I am not lying to myself or delusional. What I am doing is acknowledging that I know I don’t possess the qualities to be a good wife and mother so why should I be pressured into marriage and motherhood because that’s what other women do? Does the fact that I don’t want to be married mean that I don’t like men? No. I do. I have a boyfriend and I like him just fine. I just don’t want to be married to him. If Gottlieb didn’t make older single women appear to be pathetic, unhappy, unfulfilled creatures, I would like the book much better. To be fair to Gottlieb, perhaps the difference between how she sees the world and how I do, is that when I was growing up and in my life right now, the single women who are over 40 that I know are not miserable, lonely, and unhappy, and when I go out with them, we rarely talk about men and marriage.
Thanks for your fair and unbiased review, Kenley. I think, in general, that we all have a visceral reaction when a message isn’t targeted specifically to us…and we tend to get angry. Men on my mailing list get VERY ANGRY if they’ve received an email for a woman… even though the advice applies to them just as well. It’s kind of fascinating.
So, to your point, is it possible that Gottlieb is putting you down for not wanting to be married? I suppose. More likely, she’s writing the book thru HER eyes and for women who see the world thru similar eyes. She doesn’t think YOU’RE pathetic for choosing to stay single. She thinks SHE has problems though, because SHE wanted to be married, and SHE was so picky that she ended up single.
It’s her journey, but if you can see yourself in it at all, I’d hope it has some value. Thanks for your thoughts.
It’s interesting, how so many people take away different things from a book, or even a sentence. I guess that’s what makes society interesting.
I definitely respect your views, Kenley- you’ve made valid points. But- honestly…I didn’t see how she painted women who say they don’t want a family as delusional, etc. But I didn’t read every line of the book, so maybe I missed something?
I am single. I want a relationship. But am I willing to compromise or “settle?” No. And if I wind up alone, so be it. I won’t be happy, but I won’t blame myself. I won’t blame anybody. It will just be the way things are and I will accept it. Better that than settle with someone who won’t make me happy either. If I’m going to be unhappy, I would rather be unhappy alone than unhappy with some slob who leaves his dirty socks all over the house. Just sayin’.
True. And if you think “compromise” and “settle” mean the exact same thing, you’d be right. Gottlieb and I, however, believe that you can make compromises that don’t equal settling that will lead to a greater happiness. I repeat: NO ONE is telling you to be with someone who does not make you happy, so please stop leaping to that false conclusion about the book. Read it.
It’s quite interesting reading through these comments… I have read a couple of articles previewing “Marry Him,” and I do agree with Kelsey that the author (Gottlieb) does seem to think that every woman wants to be married and if she doesn’t, she’s fooling herself. I don’t agree with that premise, I believe the reason a lot of marriages don’t work is because women who really don’t want to be married convince themselves they do want to be married, i.e, they cave to societal expectations. Same goes for motherhood. Women & married couples who say, “I/we don’t want kids,” are looked upon as pariahs. But some women are happy being single and being the auntie, but don’t want marriage/motherhood, and I think those women should be celebrated for being true to themselves instead of criticized for their single state.
I also think that society looks more kindly on being divorced than on being never married. This is, I believe, symptomatic of the ‘matrimania’ that one poster referred to.
Me, myself, I would love to be married. However, being single and in my mid-30s, I deal with a lot of people commenting, ‘I can’t believe you’re still single,’ that sort of thing, with the implication that there must be something wrong w/me if I haven’t snagged a husband by now. Actually, there is something “wrong” with me – – a chronic medical condition that I have dealt with since my teens. (But on looking on me you wouldn’t know, it’s not like I’m, say, on an oxygen tank or use a crutch or cane, so sometimes people say insensitive things not knowing what is going on on the inside). I have gotten into relationships, disclosed my condition at the appropriate time (not on a first date!), had the guy say, “it doesn’t change how I feel, I think you’re wonderful,” but after I’ve canceled a few dates ’cause I’m feeling extra fatigued, or he wants sex but I can’t because I’m having a very painful day, I suddenly find myself single again. It’s discouraging because I don’t define myself by my condition. It’s the hand I was dealt and I’m doing pretty darn well with the hand I was dealt. I have my work, my hobbies (when my energy permits), and family & friends who love & appreciate me for the fabulous gal I am 🙂
So in my situation I just want a guy who doesn’t define me by it either!
I just don’t know what to make of these women who drop a guy ’cause he didn’t go to the “right” college or because he’s 5’11” and their guy must be 6′ feet or taller no exceptions…I myself am pretty open-minded when it comes to dating. I’m a vegetarian but all my exes are carnivores, LOL! I’m college-educated but have dated guys that never set foot on a college campus. I’m more concerned about finding a man of good character than the superficial stuff that so many women end potentially great relationships over. What’s a gal in my situation to do?
I will be interested in reading this book definately.
What does confuse me a little however, is this view that once you hit the 40’s you really will remain single. I’m only 36 so maybe it’s still a bit different but it seems the 35+ crowd are the ones being targetted as being past their used by date. This view that as you get older, you are less attractive visually may be true, but it also comes across as extremely shallow as though women themeslves believe they are truly not worthy of love if they no longer look like a hot momma!! The visual side of things is just one aspect and men tell us time and time again, that they do and can look beyond this quite easily.
I see men and women, who are older finding partners all the time. I see divorcees finding love again. I see single parents finding love. I see women in the mid thirties finding love with younger men. I see older(35+), chubby , unattractive women finding partners that they love who are actually cute men who are head over heals for their older ladies.
This is happening all the time, but if you read different blogs and websites you might be almost terrified that if you are single after 35 there is never any hope or chance for you.
So what gives? Why are some women still finding love and happiness when they ARE single mothers, they ARE older and others are saying it’s all over for them?
Is there something in these womens attitudes(like the authors), that stops them even now, from finding a nice partner?
Annette-
I think part of it is, fear sells. If you write a book saying, everything’s just dandy, it won’t sell. If you write, “YOU”RE GOING TO DIE TOMORROW, BUT IF YOU READ THIS BOOK AND FOLLOW MY ADVICE, MAYBE YOU’LL BE SAVED” which one are people going to pick?
Not knockin’ this book at all- it was a much needed read for me. But I do think that people do try to paint bleaker pictures for publicity’s sake. Reason? Same reason people crane their necks to look at a horrible car accident instead of just driving by looking straight ahead.
@58: Single people who don’t want to be married fall in love, too!
@58: But meant to add–the other day EMK posted on a blog that I do read quite often (Psychology Today, Bella DePaulo’s blog), and he invited us/her to post on this blog. But it’s not for me. All the best to you!!!
To Evan Marc Katz: Read the book? Yeah, OK. Maybe. When it comes out in the library and I can read it for free. Pay MONEY for it? Not this chica, sorry.
Re: #65
Interesting points Anette. I think you’re onto something here about attitudes stopping some from finding a good partner – at any age. If one believes that it is much harder to find love after 40 then they very well may be sending out “vibes” that make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And with the divorce rate standing at 50%, a good many people who married when they were under 40 will find themselves single again when they are over 40. So marrying during one’s “peak of attractiveness” (whatever one thinks that might be) is not a guarantee against being single later in life either.
@Jamie #67, 68
Getting married is not a particular goal of mine either, but I still enjoy reading this blog for the exchange of perspectives in the comment section. Can get quite lively lol!
I’ll check out Bella DePaulo’s blog – sounds like something I will like as well. Thanks for mentioning it. 🙂
I don’t know Bella DePaulo or her research, but her highly emotional attack on Lori Gottlieb suggests that she has a fixed position on being single, and does everything in her power to find evidence to defend her position…as opposed to taking into consideration another’s point of view. I really do my best to be objective and report what is most EFFECTIVE for singles, not what I WANT to be most effective.
@72: Oh, definitely get her book, Singled Out, and read it, since you are unfamiliar with her work. She earned her PhD at Harvard, teaches at UCSB (good creds) and has been researching/publishing extensively on deception (why people lie) and on singles and their place in society. In general she calls out instances of prejudice and (wrongly) negative stereotypes about singles that appear in the media. These negative stereotypes encourage the prejudice to continue unquestioned. (Personally, I believe that the crazy cultural pressure here in the U.S. to marry leads to a lot of bad marriages, but I digress.)
Dr. DePaulo’s research is quite solid, as you will find if you read it. She does not offer advice or tell anyone what to do with their lives, so effectiveness (helping people to reach a goal) is not at issue. Her writing does give make us pause, however, and think about how we view singles (pathetic? losers? bad at relationships? stupid? lonely? unattractive? damages? hopeless? worthless?). And perhaps, if we are single ourselves and have endured such judgments from those around us (or have internalized those messages and judge ourselves negatively), Dr. DePaulo’s message is quite positive: There is nothing wrong with you! Seems like a good starting point for any kind of relationship, if you ask me.
If your readers can view their singlehood in a positive light, as a vital and affirming part of a long life of many stages, with many kinds of relationships, I suspect that the encoupled parts of their lives will be healthier and happier. (Just my POV–no studies to back this up! 🙂 )
I would say that the Gottlieb article in The Atlantic definitely feeds the negative stereotypes about singles; though in another article (WaPo), Gottlieb has really toned it down. I find her a bit harsh, myself, and she doesn’t speak for me. No problem if others find her words meaningful.
I can see Evan, that this is a great quality you have and very much needed amongst people to day.
IE, you don’t tell them what they want to hear, you tell them the truth as much as you are capable of knowing it.
I had a friend, who is a relationship councellor(and male) and boy did I resist his “honest” telling of things. But, he hung in there with me and not reacting too all my, MEN are such PIG statments when he told me something I didn’t want to hear, and I finally started to understand things a lot better, and..ironically started liking men a lot more than I did previously!!!
I wish that we could learn a lot of these things when we are younger, but better late than ever.
Thanks for your candid words 🙂
The reason, Mr. Katz, that Bella DePaulo has such a fixed position is that she’s become an advocate and activist on behalf of singles. Perhaps not what she intended to do originally, but that’s become her role. And as such, her emphasis is on defending single people from discrimination and stereotypes.
It’s not entirely clear to me what alternate points of view you’re asking her to take into consideration.
Are you asking her to compromise with those people who put down singles, who engage in discrimination? Surely that’s not reasonable.
Are you asking her to consider those singles who want to be married? That’s not the audience she’s writing for, any more than Lori Gottlieb is writing for people happily single.
RE: Kenley’s #59
I understand what you’re saying. I think that the affliction that Gottlieb describes (as relayed via the posters here) is more common among those with a prolific dating life. But I just can’t emphasize enough that there are women who do not have men banging down their door who still act this way. He’s too short (at 5’9″ or even 5’10”). He doesn’t like ethnic food. His background is too rural. He knows my boss. His dad’s in the same profession that I’m in. He has a little gut. He’s too slender. I don’t think he’d like opera. He doesn’t mention that he likes the theater. He mentions sports too much. And this is all coming from a woman who has probably only gone out with about 5 people in her entire life (including one 1st date in that number). I think that this book would be extremely helpful for people like this, because I doubt my friend is the only person like this in the world. Basically, I don’t think the pickiness gene is limited to those in high demand.
RE: Sayanta’s #32
Sorry for the delay in responding (I somehow overlooked your question) but I did meet my boyfriend online…at match.com.
Good points from all…
I have read that such extreme pickiness as Gottlieb is documenting can be a sign of commitmentphobia. If you subconsciously fear commitment/intimacy, you’ll create these unrealistic standards for a potential partner and, voila! No relationship.
I almost through the on-line dating section of the book, and so far, it’s the best. I’m not just sucking up, Evan, but your advice in the book is great. Your section is not only the most fun, but I think it is also the most applicable to everyone who is dating — for whatever purpose. In this section, she also talks to other experts and their research and/or advice is fascinating and useful as well.
What I am beginning to see is that the advice from the experts Gottlieb consults is much more helpful than the conclusions Gottlieb herself makes. One such conclusion that she made just made me wonder is she really stating what she believes or is she simply taking poetic license to make a point. When she introduces you, she describes your wife (fiance at the time) as cute, but not gorgeous, not especially successful, and 39 and looks it. In short, Gottlieb says, she’s just ordinary. Ok. Evan, I have to disagree with her description. I have seen pictures of your wife and she is lovely — not just cute. I read in your wedding announcement that your wife is a vice president. What does she have to be to be really successful in Gottlieb’s opinion, the CEO? Finally, you sent a picture of you and your wife to the posters on this site. From what I could see, you wife did not have on any makeup and she didn’t look any where near 40. Was Gottlieb just trying to make your wife seem like less of an “objective” catch to illustrate how much you compromised? If so, I think she went way overboard. Or perhaps it’s that Gottlieb is just much more critical than I am. There are other examples in the book where I just really disagree with Gottlieb and so it makes it difficult for me not to dismiss a lot of her opinions or insights.
All in all, however, I am enjoying the book, and learning things about myself, men, and relationships. I think lots of other women — young and old — will too. For me, the real value of the book is coming from the experts and not the author herself as I just think we are operating on two different planets. At the end of the day though, I do think the information in this book can help women find great partners, and for that Gottlieb deserves a great big thank you.
I’ve got check out this DePaulo person- I’m intrigued. All this stuff I’ve learned from going to this blog!
Here’s a link to DePaulo’s opinion-
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-single/201002/should-you-marry-rude-stinky-creepy-person-you-re-not-perfect-either
Yeah, I’m with EMK here- this is a highly emotional attack. And even though DePaulo’s the psych prof, she’s the one coming off as immature and reactionary. Lori Gottlieb does not.
I’m thinking Gottlieb hit a nerve.
I think there are many different types of women that have different views of this book or settling: (1) Never-married, childless single women in 30-40, are content being single and fabulous, without the burden of child or marriage; (2) Divorced women who are childless, and do Not want to get married again; (3) Divorced women who are single moms, but have a father to co-parent; and (4) Single women who are single moms.
I think Lori falls as (4) Single woman who is a single mom and desperately wants a husband to co-parent. If she did not have a child, I highly doubt she would be writing this book. I think if she were single, she would be eternally looking for an older perfect George Clooney to marry. Or perhaps, she needs a young boy toy to control.
I think there are a lot of single never-married and divorced women who don’t need to get married and are happy being independent and strong. Lori is just like a Divorced single mom, only she is not scarred by the experience of divorce, so she has never had to live with a husband or a co-parent. But her situation is similar to other Single moms, who desperately want a new father for her children.
For the women who really want to get married, they may want to get off birth control and really wait until marriage to find the one true husband. That will really make a woman less picky!
@sayanta: You think that DePaulo post is reactionary? Try this one, to which Gottlieb wrote a snarky response herself: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bella-depaulo/marry-him-atlantic-ma_b_87045.html
@Alan: There’s nothing wrong with divergent opinions, Alan. The difference between DePaulo and Gottlieb, is that DePaulo is – in my mind – falsely crying foul about Gottlieb’s material, as if it’s an ATTACK on single people. It’s not. It’s a call to action for single people with marriage and biological kids on their brains to make some better decisions. That’s all. DePaulo’s attacks on Gottlieb remind me of O’Reilly’s “War On Christmas” attacks. Except O’Reilly has a tiny point when someone takes down a Christmas tree in a town square. DePaulo completely misreads Gottlieb’s take on things and conflates it into something else entirely, pretty much just to bang her drum and keep her face in the news.
Once again, if Gottlieb were attacking single women who chose to be single, DePaulo would have a case. Surely, there is some societal judgment for 40+ single women. But not from Gottlieb, who, if it hasn’t escaped anyone, is a 40+ single woman! Gottlieb claims to speak for herself when she says that she’s lonely, and wishes to spend a life with a man. Surely, there are other women who agree. If it’s not you, if it’s not Bella DePaulo, why raise such a ruckus?
To paraphrase, Gottlieb says “We can agree to disagree. You don’t want a man and kids? Great. Enjoy your life. But I do. Here’s how women like ME could better achieve these goals.” Somehow, this has been turned into an attack on single women and feminists. It’s not. Put down your swords. You’re the only ones fighting.
@Kenley: Thank you for your kind words. As far as the depiction of my wife, I can’t claim to have been thrilled by it, however, I would be the first to admit that there are plenty of women in Los Angeles who are younger, more highly educated, and more highly paid than my wife. If I were holding out for 10’s in all of those areas, then yes, I would have fallen short. But I took my own advice – made a few compromises (as did she), and found a relationship that’s a 10. And that’s probably the best advice I ever got about choosing a partner: don’t judge the person, judge the RELATIONSHIP.
https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/evaluate-your-relationship-not-your-partner/
People can have flaws, but we want our relationships to be solid. Instead, we go for ever-more-impressive PEOPLE who are NOT good in a relationship…and wonder why it never works.
Although I haven’t read this book yet, I have to chime in hear that many people do NOT realize how they are “getting in their own way” of finding love, happiness and marriage.
I am one of those girls whose realized a lot later in life (just turned 40) and through the guidance of Evan that I’ve been chasing hotness and passion my entire adult life and I’m now a “dating virgin” because I’ve never dated “smart” before.
A dating coach like Evan or a book such as this can open your eyes to blind spots that you can’t see. Of course, I recommend Evan’s services over a book anyday because of how much he’s changed my life… but nonetheless, find out what YOU’RE personal blind spot is.
When I first enlisted Evan’s help… all I wanted was for him to find a way for “hot guy of the month” to fall in love with me. At the time I was MAD at him, for NOT giving me what I wanted, but instead… showing me that I need to stop going after the chemistry high and make better choices, something I had been doing all my life.
That was MY blind spot. It still IS. He’s helped tremendously, but after my entire adult life of chasing the passionate kiss around the corner, its still a hard “habit” to break, but I am breaking it and I will find a long term relationship in 2010. No doubt in my mind; because I enlisted the help of someone (Evan) who showed me something that I couldn’t see.
So I could write a book with a different “slant”…. “Break the Hot Guy Habit”. Maybe your not over-picky, maybe you suffer from the ailment I did for so long…. letting my pheramones be my guide to EVERYTHING. Either way… the advice of “stop holding out for someone who meets all of your criteria” is pretty solid. Hot guys and passion have led me nowhere good. I still need SOME, but its no longer my driving force.
I don’t care much about the book’s subject matter (not enough to buy a copy, anyway), but I would like to know why there are so many books helping women “snag” a man/husband, but so few helping men snag women/a wife. Certainly they can use an equal amount of advice answering burning questions such as, “Why can’t I find a woman who wants to do my laundry?” and “I’m a professional, suit-wearing man with big muscles. Why don’t women love me?”
A-L-
#76- um–wait, are we friends? Coz that sounds like me you’re talking about there. LOL j/k.
Seriously though- I gotta get myself on Match. I’m slowly beginning to lose the ‘ew’ factor for online dating when I’m seeing how so many people are meeting their SOs off it.
StyleSiesta, (#64)
Because of your situation, you may need to be more proactive in dating than most women.
Having been in a similar situation as the men you date, if a woman is frequently pushing me away, it still feels like rejection (even though I intellectually realize that’s not her intent. In order to counteract that, you’ll need to demonstrate that you are interested.
For example, if you have to cancel a date because you feel bad, make a point of asking him out when you feel better. If you have to decline sex because you’re in pain, make a point of initiating sex when you feel good.
That made a world of difference between the two relationships I’ve had with women who had health issues.
@Kristen: Because they don’t read them. Check out the self-help section of a Borders. You’ll see. The only self-help you’ll see guys reading are business books, or maybe “The Game” to learn how to get laid.
We can debate whether the market reflects the demand for men or dictates the demand for men, but one thing is clear: if you’re writing a dating book, don’t write one for men. That is, if you want your book to be read.
@Kristen – I hear you, and I tried to write a book for men about the perils of family court. But getting them to organize for their own good, or buy a $14 book to save their sanity just didn’t fly. In the end, I flipped the subject matter around, made the same points just from the perspective of their future second wife, and viola, “Every Single Girl’s Guide to Her Future Husband’s Last Divorce” was born. And keeping with the “brides don’t read” edict, you can breeze through it in one 3 hour hair dressing session. But trying to address issues that were critical to men, like the fact that they have no reproductive rights in this country, fell flat. THAT is why all the books focus on the women. I know it’s supposed to be a secret, but we really do rule the world. 🙂
Men are less apt to admit they need help or have a problem. While they might wonder about their dating abilities and such, they won’t actually seek the help to improve themselves. more often then not. They will say things like “she was just a *insert four letter word here* if a girl isn’t interested, move on to the next, and wonder why the next girl didn’t return his calls.
It’s really a pittfall for men because they are there own worst enemies stopping any growth they could have here. Look how far women have come in past decades and men have remained the same place they always were with minor differences to expectations held for them. It’s quite interesting. I also suspect it’s a reason why we hear the stats on why women are exceling in higher education and men are not. I personally would love to see men more motivated to grow not just mentally, but emotionally. But we might still be a long way off before men admit they need certain kinds of help.
I disgress. I will say it again, there is a current media culture for women with relationships/dating/self help books that seem to play on sparking a masochist streek in women. And women eat it up as if they love the abusive “tough-love” stance these attention grabbing books need to sell. This book is nothing new. These are the same things that have been being said since the send off of the bra burning 60s.
Women are not willing to sacrfice themselves for “love” anymore. Not to the degree that our mothers did just to have a home, family and stability. Do we want love? Of course. The issue is not that we won’t settle but that we do not throw ourselves in the volcano for it anymore when previous generations of women did. Women sacrficed themselves to their families. And today’s woman asks for more. While this gives women more power, it also gives us less of those idealistic visions of happy families that people think equal love. And maybe that’s what people are really missing. The idea of love and family and the showmenship and not the true love that we all really want. That, and the fact that men today DO have to work harder because women today have more options.
———————————————————————————-
was about being picky, concentrating on the superficial traits opposed to the ones desired for long lasting happy relationship. She said when interviewed, men would come up with 3 reasons they wouldn’t give a woman a second date women would come up with 300 for a man!
———————————————————————————-
What does it matter though? 3 reasons or 300, a man isn’t going to change his mind to date a woman if he finds 3 things he doesn’t like just as a woman wouldn’t change her mind for a man if he had 300. While men are not as complicated in their reasoning, it doesn’t mean that they are going to day a girl anymore then a woman would date a guy.
I was thinking- I know a woman of color who’s built somewhat of a name for herself in the activist community because of her vocalization of issues affecting poor people, particularly of color. Now- I’m not best friends with her, but I know her relatively well, well enough to know about her love life. This woman was asked out by an Ivy-League educated white dude, a person who represented the system she railed against. Reluctantly, she went out with him, ’cause, I guess it had been- let’s say, a while- since she’d been out with a guy. After a few dates, she liked his personality, how he treated her, but could NOT get past the Ivy-education and the vanilla part. So she stopped going out with him.
I thought- well, maybe they just didn’t click as much as they should. But on further knowledge, I was able to gather that she felt that dating such a guy would tarnish her ‘image.’ Primarily, she sees herself as an activist for poor people of color- that’s the only role that’s important to her- and she doesn’t want to do anything that would make her seem like a possible hypocrite- to others, possibly even to herself.
Why do I bring this up? I was thinking about Bella de Paulo. If she’s built a reputation on ‘single-ness’- basically advocating single-hood forever, and gotten far in her career due to her singles research, she might think that agreeing with Gottlieb or applying the principles to her own life may jeopardize her career and the professional life she’s worked hard to maintain. She sees herself primarily as- like someone said above- ‘a voice for the singles.’ So- like my friend, she might think it hypocritical to ‘settle,’ and like my friend, she might also be unwilling to ‘tarnish her image.’ I could be totally off the mark, but thought I would put it out there.
PS- Bella keeps saying that Lori wants us women to settle for regressive, depressive terrorists. Um- okay, that’s like me saying, “So-and-so wants me to become a vegan because she said I should cut the Big Macs out of my life.” Nowhere in the book do I even remember the word “terrorist.”
I think that, under the surface — perhaps not even recognized by Gottleib — this book might have to do with the phenomenon of female commitmentphobia, a malady from which I personally suffer. We usually tag men with this syndrome, but in truth a lot of the seemingly picky women out there are really just using their demands and their “needs” as a way to avoid making a commitment. Much easier to discard a series of dates for superficial reasons than it is to actually do the hard & sometimes scary work of connecting with someone and making the necessary compromises.
The advice from Gottleib that we commitmentphobes should just “settle” doesn’t really help — the question is *how* to settle? I can’t wrap my head around it.
In a strange way, the best dating advice for my situation has been Ian Kerner’s book “You’re Just Not that Into Him.” That’s because commitmentphobia is actually dual-edged: you really want a relationship, but then you go screaming in the opposite direction when things start to look serious. As a result of this, you can end up embroiled in unhealthy relationships with the wrong people (the ones “you’re not really into”), because this allows you to be in a relationship of some kind (which you really do want), but sidesteps the whole question of committment, because the relationship is so obviously f-ed up.
Sayanta I don’t think Dr. DePaulo is arguing for people to be single forever. Her basic position is that singles can be as happy and healthy and successful as people who are coupled, whether they are looking for a relationship or not.
I agree with you, Alan. I’m sure everyone on this site would as well. So why is it that if someone offers constructive criticism to a single woman on DePaulo’s site, it becomes a criticism of all single women? I mean, you seem like a reasonable man. I’d like to think I am as well. But to watch my words twisted on that Singles blog was painful.
So tell your friend, Jamie that I’m staying away, and know that I truly appreciate your attempts to reach out. Let the Singles community know that this blog is their greatest advocate IF they want to have a healthy, long-term romantic relationship. If they don’t, well, I’m sure Ms. DePaulo provides useful tips for staying single.
Take care,
Evan
Everyone’s comments are very interesting. Women have been and are continuing to experience a tremendous growth period of self-empowerment which is incredible, as long as we don’t get in our own way. 🙂
IMHO, men are not hard wired to seek out the opportunities for personal growth as women do. Not all, mind you. There are always exceptions. Men really do live in the NOW.
I know an Alpha male who went to therapy for two years, after suffering through the traumatic breakup of a LTR of several years. He recommended a book to me when my own situation started. He recognized early on that while the woman involved played her part, so did he, and he wanted to better understand himself and to grow from the experience. He also knew that he would be able to be stronger throughout the ordeal, if he sought the support that he felt he needed.
I was astounded when he told me this, and I applaud his efforts and the courage that it took. One thing I have noticed is that most people are very quick to point the finger at their exes, but few take the painful journey to travel inward and to truly come away from the experience a better and a more whole person.
@92: Correct–she is not advocating for any major life choice one way or the other, and she does not offer unsolicited (or any other type) of relationship advice. You will never read anything where she advises people to marry, divorce, or stay single. What you will read her saying is that marriage will not make you happier or healthier; that it will only make you wealthier because of prejudice in the workplace and in the tax code, both of which favor marrieds; that it is not the only/best way to raise children; that it will not ensure that you do not die alone.
You might also read her contending that the images of marriage as presented in the media are misleading and do not reflect the reality of marriage in the U.S. Because this is her area of research (several decades’ worth), she makes her case using sociological studies, her own and others’. She also points out faulty methodology/conclusions in some highly visible studies. Like this one: The most oft-cited study on the benefits of marriage only uses data on always-marrieds and excludes data on those who married and then divorced. As she points out, this is like a drug company in the course of its research including only people the drug worked for and excluding those dropped out because of the negative side effects.
In short, she is raising awareness about how both marriage and singlehood are stereotyped in our society–one positively and the other negatively. But don’t go to her site or her books looking for (or handing out) dating advice. Not appropriate.
JerseyGirl said: (#89)
“What does it matter though? 3 reasons or 300, a man isn’t going to change his mind to date a woman if he finds 3 things he doesn’t like just as a woman wouldn’t change her mind for a man if he had 300.”
There’s a huge difference. I can’t come up with 300 things that are wrong, because I’m not looking at that many details. My list of “must have” criteria is in the single digits.
If a woman meets my top 10 criteria but fails the next 3, I see her as a candidate for a long-term relationship. If a man met your top ten criteria, but failed the next 3, would you even go on a second date with him?
That’s where pickiness impacts dating.
just something else I’ve been thinking about: I’ve found blogs and dating books very helpful, and so I’m not knocking them at all. At the same time, they have a tendency to use generalizations like “men don’t talk about their feelings”- and “men don’t like self-help” etc. Granted, this is most likely the experience of most people’s and the authors.
For someone like me, who has only a bit of experience with men, I tend to pay a lot of attention to these books, articles, etc. The problem is- none of these ever say anything, well, that good about men. So- I think, personally, I go into dates with the idea that I have to always watch what I say, keep myself under ‘control’ at all times, because I don’t want the guy to think I’m too emotional, that I love talking about feelings (which I do), etc.
At the same time, just for talking’s sake, say I act like that, avoid talking about anything emotional, or showing emotion, and the guy across from me happens to be the one guy who is into all that ‘touchy-feely stuff.’ But because I’ve been getting the message, ‘men don’t like that’- he’s probably come off thinking ‘she’s a cold bitch’ when I’m not.
I guess what I’m trying to say in a roundabout way- is even though all this stuff is helpful, it can also put so much stuff in your head that you don’t even know the right way to behave around the opposite sex anymore.
Sayanta #97, that is a valid point. There’s an expression, “to take everything with a grain of salt.” I filter through loads of information and sometimes it does feel a bit overwhelming. At the end of my day, I only apply and absorb what feels right to me. While some of the broader statements are true and can be eye-openers [LOL], I have to apply what fits for me as a unique individual, and then try to strike a balance in dating between what I have learned and again, what feels right. And since we can’t read another person’s mind (well, most of the time ;)), you are always going to be taking risks when getting to know someone new.
I take comfort in believing that if it was meant to be, it will be. And that the best I can ever do is to be myself.
@97: Hysterical!! So true!!! You read how awful men are in general: not into feelings, looking at other women, wanting to cheat, actually cheating, lying about looking at other women and about cheating, more likely to leave if you get terminally ill, not doing their share of the housework/childrearing, entitled, and now, not as well educated as women are. Sounds like you’re “settling” just going out with a “regular” guy! And to have a relationship with him you have to pretend that none of this bothers you. So you end up tiptoeing around and doing everything right and catching the so-called prize. When do you get to be yourself?
And where are all the books about how great, loving, and kind men are and why we need them? Where are those books? I mean, I can take out my own trash. The guys described above can go with it, in my view. 🙂
RE: 97-99
If you’re looking for some generalizations about men on blogs, here a few. Men are wonderful. They tend to not to stress out about a lot of things that women do. There’s a large number of them who just roll with the punches and don’t complain about much. As a bunch they are really eager to please. As a bunch they’re also really easy to please. They take pride in taking caring of and providing for those they love. Most also yearn to find someone with whom they can share their softer, more sensitive side as it’s not something they can share with most of their male buddies. Many men enjoy helping out with all sorts of things, particularly handyman activities. Most will also handle rodent & bug duty (I can handle bugs but I do not do rodents, at least not well). And I’d say men are fabulous at giving hugs at the end of a bad day, and lots give excellent massages as well. As I said, men are MARVELOUS!
In terms of how you should act on a date, just act the way you normally would with someone you are just meeting (of either sex). You wouldn’t normally unload all of your frustrations on someone you just meet, would you? Do you start telling them about all your problems, either with previous relationships, health issues, your boss, or whatever else? Would you monopolize the entire conversation, only talking about yourself? Would you all of a sudden start calling/texting them daily, and/or get mad if they didn’t contact you as frequently? I would say that most of the advice given about how you should date is about how you should treat anyone that you’re first getting to know. Yes, there are people you run across and you immediately just “click” but I’d say that’s very rare. Most of the time you get to know someone and as you trust them more and get to know them more then you share more about yourself. The same is true for dating.
Men are very different. There are lots of sensitive guys and some guys today actually work on being more giving. There are many fantastic guys and honestly most of the men are not that different from women. Then again there are plenty of guys that are totally irresponsible, egotistical and cruel. Biologically though it seems that men are more simple and straightforward.
Yet it doesn’t mean that a woman necessarily has 300 criteria. There are basically just three – his looks, faithfulness and having a stable income.
The book about ‘settling’ makes sense – it is wise to think about finding a stable partner that you are content with when you’re young enough and not leave it to an indefinite future. That’s just pure common sense and applies to both women and men (guys who think they can postpone it forever are fooling themselves, I get hit on by guys over 40 online every day in big numbers but they do not stand a chance since most of them are not that attractive anymore, hei, even a 30year old is not a spring chicken anymore).
The question is whether you are able to stay with a guy that you’re not deeply and authentically, passsionately in love with for many years. Yes, he can be pleasant and ‘compatible’ but he is not the one you desire. And sometimes it can be enough. But it’s easy to suggest giving up the “I want a hot guy’ attitude, but I can’t help who I like. It’s only natural. He does not have to be a hunk, but there needs to be an authentic sexual attraction. You also have to think about the other party – is it fair to them to have them around only because it was time for you to ‘settle’?
Great point about the changes in the new generation of the women. We HAVE SEEN how our mothers sacrificed everything for the sake of the husband and family – and what many of them got in return for that. It is important to give to children, and a loving, supportive husband. But the reality of marriage is far from the ideal that we still have in our perceptions. I am not willing to sacrifice my life for the common marriage of 2010. Especially given the high divorce rates and high rates of cheating. There is no security in it and not that much of a reward. The man can leave any moment for a younger woman (how cliche but still…) and leave you totally heart broken and humiliated. Of course it can happen the other way around too and maybe it is good to stay together only for a while and leave when you are tired of each other. Will he be a good self-less husband, who will take up half of the domestic duties or will I have to do the second shift for free after work? The men really need to change. There is no incentive to get ‘settled’ or married if you are a self-sufficient, well paid lady. There is only a wish for romantic, erotic love and eventually an equal partnership.
@101: “The men really need to change. There is no incentive to get settled or married if you are a self-sufficient, well paid lady. There is only a wish for romantic, erotic love and eventually an equal partnership.”
Hear, hear! They have no choice if they want the best that women now have to offer men. Of course, if they don’t, they can always “settle,” too.
I say, let anyone who wants to “settle” do so, and the rest of us will continue on our own happy way. 🙂
IceQueen said: (#101)
“The men really need to change.”
That reasoning will accomplish absolutely nothing.
One rule holds true for everyone (men and women). There is only one person in the universe that you can reliably change … YOU.
If you don’t believe me, try to change men for as long as you want.
@Karl R: I’ll have to work on the proactiveness, it isn’t my strong suit, but reading your reply #86, I could see how that could help in my situation.
@Sayanta #97: I have struggled with that too, at times. Sometimes I feel as though there is so much conflicting advice out there, and then I lose sight of my authentic self when I’m around someone I like ’cause I’m working through the script in my head.
I really want to read this. I’m all the way in Italy, so I’ll have to see if there is an audio or e- version available on amazon. Thanks for the great review and for letting us know about the book! I’m 32 and ready for advice like this.
I didn’t mean changing individual men. Why would I want to change an adult male? I meant changing the gender perceptions. If men want to be in long term relationships with caring, sexy women (who pay their own bills) they need to be able to offer something that these women want (sex appeal, emotional support, humor, monogomy) or need (help around the house or being a good father). Like many men do. The point was that I as a woman do not want/need marriage more than a man does, I’m over the fact that somebody might think I’m somehow handicapped because I’m not married or in a long term relationship with a guy who doesn’t bother to propose. Nature loves balance and if a guy does not want to take up the traditional, patriarchial male role by supporting the woman who stays at home with a child, then the other option is a truly equal relationship. And if I can’t find a guy with who I can have a truly equal relationship, then I choose to remain single because it’s too much of a burden to be the breadwinner, the mother and the ‘good wife’ .
@106: If that does not just say it all!!!!! 🙂
IceQueen said: (#106)
“If men want to be in long term relationships with caring, sexy women (who pay their own bills) they need to be able to offer something that these women want”
Now we’re reaching some common ground. We agree that a relationship should be equal. Therefore, if you’re a sexy, caring woman who supports herself, you can get a sexy, caring man who supports himself. That’s it. You don’t get a man with 100 additional positive traits unless you bring more than those three qualities (though you can potentially trade one positive trait for an equivalent one).
Before you start listing all of your positive traits … the only ones that count are the ones he’s interested in. (Which is fair, since you probably don’t consider his skill at video games to be a positive trait.) So he might only be judging you based on how sexy and caring you are. If you’re sexier and more caring than the next woman, you’re more desirable. If you’re less sexy and less caring, you’re less desirable … even if you’re richer, better educated, more stylish, a better cook, more athletic, etc.
What happens if your “must have” list is 100 items long? By the time you find a man who is tall, well-read, a sharp dresser, funny, cultured, not bald (and 94 more things) … you’ve probably passed up a substantial number of men who were more caring than him. So you can either settle for a great guy who is less caring, or you’ll need to keep searching for someone who is also very caring. When you find a man who is that extraordinary, you’ll need to be sexier and more caring than any of the other women who are chasing him (and if he has that many positive qualities, it’s probably a large number).
And there’s one more problem that you encounter when you insist upon a partner who is your equal. Most people overestimate the importance of their positive qualities and underestimate the importance of their negative qualities. If a man has overestimated his appeal, would you consider him to be your equal just because he believes he’s your equal? Probably not. The same thing happens if you’re overestimating your appeal.
If Lori Gottlieb had been holding out for her equal, do you think she would still be single?
Your situation is different from Lori’s. You’re happy being single. You can choose to hold out for the most outrageous combination of qualities and still be happily single.
Why is it that people always think that some less-desirable physical trait means that the person has some compensatorily fantastic personality? And haven’t we all stopped caring by this point whether or not Lori Gottlieb gets married? Such a boring conversation. Let’s move on!!
Despite Gottlieb’s assertions, I’m not convinced that women are so much choosier than men. Men seem more simplistic in their approach; if they think a woman is hot, they’ll date her. If not, they won’t. I think that women are less picky about looks and somewhat pickier (more complicated) about other things. But I just read about a study that showed that when women were assigned the traditionally male role of approaching potential romantic partners (during speed dating events where women are normally approached by men), they were no more picky than men.
Sarah #109
Hear, hear!
Sarah-
I don’t want to speak for Karl, or anyone else here- but the way I comprehend it, I don’t think he was saying that less desirable traits always means there’s some fantastic personality trait to compensate. I think he (and actually, Gottlieb), was saying that women of certain age and ‘credentials’ tend to pass up great guys because those guys don’t have certain physical traits that would ‘incite passion’ let’s say. And in holding out for the hot guy who also happens to be affectionate, nurturing, rich, educated, well-read, speaks 7 languages, under 35, etc., they’re passing up the chance for marriage and companionship.
And yes- I know men do the above, too. But the book (and most of this blog) is about women.
IceQueen, fantastic post on #106.
I also agree with what Sayanta is saying in post #111. What I disagree on is that we must stick with the premise of talking about how this only affects women. Despite the book and the blog being geared to mostly women. Women can’t carry the weight of the dating world on their shoulders alone if men don’t want to meet us half way. And it’s for this reason you see less and less women wanting to settle. It’s not because we have out of the world wants and expectations. I think it has to do with the fact that the pay off to be with a man, while we all desire love and that companionship, is not always worth the price women seem to have to pay to get it. Lets be honest, women are suppose to be the relationship bearers. Because we are the ones that seem to have a more heavy desire for it. We carry more of the responsiblity for it. Since we are the ones that seek answers to improve it. And to be honest, who wants to both settle AND carry the burden of improving the relationship if men aren’t there to meet us half way?
Karl keeps reminding us that the author is still single. I understand his point of view but I also think there is this fear we try to install in women “oh you’re going to end up single just like that woman!” But women today, while they don’t want to be alone and without love, have so many other things going on that if it comes to that, it will be okay. We don’t live in the day of white knights of men that want to take care of you to provide and protect anymore. For that, women are more independent.
I really don’t think most women have such high expectations when it comes to relationships. I just think that women have been carrying the burden of being the relationship caretaker for so long, they now want men to man up a bit and meet them half way. And if they don’t? Then we can fullfill ourselves with our families, friends and work. There are more things in the modern world that fill a woman’s time. When previously it use to be just family and kids. Men have to compete more for our time and interest. And I don’t think think are evovling at the same rate women are emotionally in the modern world. So we are at a bit of an imbalance.
I think that women are starting to feel that with all they can accomplish in their lives today, giving them rich and fulfilling experiences, they do not need a man in the ways that women did before. Therefore, they feel they can afford to be more selective. This, coupled with the continuing relationship burden that JerseyGirl points out, makes them start to sit back and seriously question whether it’s a road they want to take. Their experiences are bringing into question whether they even want marriage or children, where as before it was more of a given. So the guy had better make it worth their while. 😉
@111: I wasn’t just speaking of Carl falling into this trap–it’s just out there in general in the world. “Go for the 8, because the 10 is egotistical/crazy/etc.” Well, I know plenty of people who are pretty on the outside and pretty on the inside, and plenty of people who are ugly on the inside and ugly on the outside. And some of Gottlieb’s examples of repulsiveness were not merely cosmetic (halitosis, for instance); they might indicate deeper socialization or health problems that would be problematic in a long-term relationship. In many cases, I would say, the person with the well-cared for smile and neatly pressed clothes and the financially responsible job is the better person to be with and also appears to be Mr. or Ms. Right.
But mostly I agree with JerseyGirl and IceQueen. You know if you’ve got it goin’ on and a guy doesn’t. Better not to get it on if one or both of you don’t have it goin’ on.
I agree , the average man will not buy a book on relationships, the few that do, don’t understand what they read……
Evan wrote:
Men on my mailing list get VERY ANGRY if they’ve received an email for a woman.
Really?
Going back and reading through these comments, I still think that Gottlieb’s book was a necessary read for me. At the same time, I was thinking…do you think she’s saying that we should stick with the first really nice guy we meet, even if we’re not attracted to him at all? I’m not even talking about fireworks or butterflies- i’m talking about a nice guy who’s, for example, really really awkward, or one so fem, I feel like the guy standing next to him.
Someone may have mentioned above that sometimes these books seem to be written to scare women- and I think that’s the challenge of reading these books: striking a balance between being ‘demanding’ with the requirements, and feeling like you’ve got to settle for the first guy who’s decent because there’s just no one else around.
Sanyanta,
Please read the entire book — don’t just skim it. Gottlieb is NOT saying go for the first nice guy because no one else is around. She is saying think long and hard about what are the essential qualities that will make a guy a good partner/husband and father. Look for those traits and give a little on the more superficial ones.
#118-
No, I definitely get that- I guess I’m really asking what’s considered superficial? Am I being superficial when I write off guys because I don’t feel physically attracted to them at all (and don’t see attraction coming in the future)? It’s hard because people define these things differently.
Sayanta,
I don’t think it is being superficial when you write guys off because you don’t feel any attraction what so ever. I think, however, attraction is not necessarily static. I would say that if you are not totally and completely repulsed by a guy, but are just neutral, and he appears to have other qualities that are important to you, you can at least try to get to know him better. In some cases, the more you get to know and like a guy, the more attractive he becomes.
I think perhaps instead of thinking, what can this guy do that will make me happy, you can think about what can we give EACH OTHER that would make US a happy couple.
<i>Am I being superficial when I write off guys because I don’t feel physically attracted to them at all (and don’t see attraction coming in the future)? </i>
Not at all. It would be incredibly cruel to a man to stay with him when you’re totally unattracted to him, just because you want to “Marry Him.”
Kenley #120 wrote:
“In some cases, the more you get to know and like a guy, the more attractive he becomes.”
Has happened to me a few times. 🙂
thanks for the insight guys- yeah, i get what you’re all saying. But the whole feeling ‘butch’ next to the guy is kinda a dealbreaker for me, I guess. lol
We’re not saying go for the guys who make you feel ‘butch’ – how many of them are you meeting anyway? (If it’s alot, you need to start going different places.) We’re saying you don’t have to dismiss someone simply because there isn’t instant infatuation. Sometimes the guy you might think to be a little plain, not tall enough, too quiet, or whatever … becomes more and more attractive in your eyes if you take the time to see what he’s all about. That’s all. It’s not about tying yourself to someone with whom the idea of kissing is Yiiick!
#124-
For some reason, I always seem to get asked out by the really shy, fem guys (although I guess they’re not that shy if they’re asking me out). Hell, maybe I am butch. Oh well.
LOL ! There’s just something about Sayanta…
😀
I agree, there are plenty of people out there (men and women) who have unrealistic expectations about relationships and therefore sabotoge their quest for true love.
I haven’t read the book but I think the buzz about it is misleading. Women are more apt to seek/read advice books, and the danger is that the idea of books like this is to give the impression that the reason many women are single is 100% their own fault. I can assure you that there are plenty of men out there who are just as equally responsible.
So enough with the scare tactics already! Like when Newsweek came out with this article 20 years ago about how women 30+ have greater chance of blah blah then getting married. Turned out to be completely false, most of the women in the article ended up getting married, newsweek recanted the story after realizing the ‘research’ on which the article was based was faulty.
But a whole generation of women took the premise of the article seriously, married men who weren’t right for them because they were scared they wouldn’t meet anyone, only to end up divorced a few years later.
@128: Or 100% their own choice.
downtowngal said: (#128)
“the danger is that the idea of books like this is to give the impression that the reason many women are single is 100% their own fault. I can assure you that there are plenty of men out there who are just as equally responsible.“
I would say that it’s 100% the women’s responsibility.
Let’s say that you’re unemployed. The current economic situation is probably a major factor. But it’s your responsibility to find yourself a new job. Nobody would recommend that you wait until the economy improves before you go searching.
Let’s say I’m unemployed in this economy. I’ve gotten a dozen job offers for jobs that I’m qualified to do, and which would meet my financial needs … but I keep rejecting them because they don’t quite match up to the job I was laid off from.
Let’s say that you’re an employer, and you offered me a job … one of the dozen jobs that I turned down. Would you say that my continued unemployment is my fault or your fault?
Most single men have dated (or attempted to date) women who turned us down because we didn’t match up to some standard which we felt was unreasonable. Our male friends have encountered the same situation. Try to convince us that it’s our fault that you’re still single. (Is it your fault that we’re still single?)
When Evan told us about this book I went and read the book she wrote before this one first “I Love You,Nice To Meet You”
which I enjoyed a lot. It’s very funny ! I recomend it to all.
I read “Marry Him” over the last couple days and I thought it was great. Yes,Evan is great in the book as well. It was a lot easier to read than the 130 comments above me…lol I think it’s as simple as Gottlieb saying……”look,this is what I’ve been and am going through” maybe some women that have marriage and children as a priority can learn something from it and maybe even see a little of yourself in it” maybe YOU can learn from my mistakes.
I’m male late 40’s never married,don’t want to be or have kids and don’t apologise for it.That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be in a healthy relationship. I love reading these books so I hate when everyone says “Men don’t read these books” yadda yadda yadda.Of course I read other “pick-up”(<—I hate the term) books,websites,this blog etc… as well that men DO read. So I’m not the norm. I read & watch everything.
Evan taught her in the book what he try’s to teach women here everyday and I think she’s going to keep using his advice. I don’t agree with everything she wrote nor do I agree with everything Evan says but I’ll always listen and take what certain people whose opinions I respect into consideration. Even when Lori first sat down with Evan to do the online thing she went straight for the “hot alpha guys” her age with no kids and like so many I see online everyday they keep doing it …over and over and getting the same result. Evan basically had to yell at her to get it into her head. THESE are the guys you should be emailing not THOSE. I wish every woman online in the world today would at least open their minds and realise. We’re sorry…..there’s not enough ‘Prince Charming,Mr.Perfect,”The One’s” for every woman on the planet. Some of you will have to date and yes……even marry ……wait for it……….dare I say it?…….regular guys.
As for Lori……it doesn’t take a relationship or dating expert to know that once she decided to become a “single mom” her options would change dramatically as she found out.I really wonder how much she thought or cared about it.What’s more important having a baby or a husband first?
EMK quoted in The New Yorker re: Gottlieb:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2010/03/29/100329crat_atlarge_lepore
Re: # 132
Interesting article, thanks for sharing the link.
While I suspect that my post is likely to simply fade off into the ether, which is the Internet ;), one of the comments above – by JerseyGirl, @ 112 – particularly prompted me to write.
As a 42-YO male who also happens to desire the prototypical nuclear family, I've just finished reading "Marry Him" – largely b/c, there ARE no analogous books, written for men!! – and, find myself entirely in agreement with Evan's general premise above – that this book is not about, what you think (and/or, what the title would otherwise seemingly WANT you to think), it is about…
I also happen to agree with various other posters above that women are the ones who've historically done most of the heavy lifting in this (the relationship) department, but note (for posterity's sake? :p) that like-minded (ie, child-bearing-minded) men do, IMO, face an analogous (if unreported) issue (motility, notwithstanding); insofar as, even if I'd/we'd like to date similarly-aged (or, gasp-44YO!) gals, you dont need to be a genius (or an IVF expert) to understand that even the most advantageous courtship/procreation timeline, just dont work. Meanwhile, most of the mid-to-late 30-something gals I happen to make contact with (via Match; as I gave up on Jdate, lol), appear to be rather uniformly interested only in guys, up to age 39, and/or, those w/ (proverbial) six-packs, as opposed to the (heretofore, silent? ;p) numbers of average-looking, perhaps follicly-challenged (lol) men who otherwise are reminded daily – via various, un-requited, emails, lol – of what they (comparatively) bring – or, do NOT bring – to this (perception) party….
So, here I am, and that is, what it is: but, to JerseyGirl, I just wanted to say, rest assured that there are indeed still: a) some bastions of men out there who'd be delighted to find a lifepartner to love, honor, protect, respect and care for (and yes, be cared for, by); but, certainly b) lots of men who, at a minimum, are otherwise ready and willing, to meet you (women) half-way….;)
by the way- I found a great article by a 31-year-old woman looking back on dating in her 20s- some gems of advice- most are common sense, but we tend to forget common sense when dealing with the opposite sex. happy reading. http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/datingtips/89028/things-i-wish-id-known-about-dating-when-i-was-21/
To AuthenticInAz
In my limited online dating experience, the guys who wrote to me – a 40 year old woman – are either too old or too young. It is very rare for the men around my age to be looking at my profile. This is the circle -men in my age range are looking for younger women and complaining that they don't seem interested.
The dating scene has been through many changes over the past five years, and the proliferation of self-service internet sites and individualized matchmaker services confirms this. But if everyone is searching for their partner, why are so few people actually finding that someone special? To determine if you are helping or hurting your chances of success ask yourself these questions:
(1) Does my list of required attributes focus on physical and material characteristics?(2) Am I being unrealistic in my age specifications?(3) Am I basing most of my decisions strictly on what the photo looks like?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, then you’re probably doing more harm than good in your search for a life partner.
As I’m the guy that had the 80% and was left by fiance after being together 7yrs, I truly ache to read the wisdom in the book that I wish my ex had. When it comes to passion, I dont understand why any one thinks that you will have this super high degree of passion everyday if you married for 40 yrs, or that if you’ve had passion in your relationship for most of the time in your relationship, that just because its absent now it cant come back. In my own case There was passion 90% of our time together, and it had fallen off the last 6 months of our relationship. Why was it gone? I’m not sure, but I am sure that it was not because we could not have it, or rekindle it. She went looking for greener grass, and it always seems to me that people that do that in order not to settle are the ones that usually end up settling for less later in life.
I probably should have gone through all the messages, maybe someone already considered this argument. What happens when you realize you are her “compromise”? This is my story. A guy I know tells me he has a good friend, who lives not far from where I live. Unfortunately she doesn’t have time to meet other people, and anyway it’s hard for her to find men sharing her same interests. So he invites me to contact her. Busy with my job, I don’t follow that invitation. However one month later she finds me. Let’s say it takes two months to meet, mainly because I am always busy. Probably on the basis of that guy and another common acquaintance’s words, she has a very big expectation, as far as looks and personality goes. We meet and I realize she likes me. I think she likes everything of me. I am not saying I am a beauty god. But I had several women telling me I am handsome, and I know for sure that I am a great catch as far as personality and brain. It happens that I like her too. To make long story short, few months later we move from friendship state to actual relationship, intimacy included. I keep thinking that she likes me in every aspect. However I started seeing a red flag when she began to talk about her past relationship in a very detailed way, also the spiciest. And, even though not in a direct way, somehow to compare me to them. When I brought this feeling of mine up, she said that I was almost perfect and, as she looks around, she can’t find anything better for her. However I felt like I was a compromise, since I had somehow most of the qualities those are guys from the past had, in particular exterior, even though not to the extent she wished (I am not as tall as X’s, my body is not as perfect as Y’s, I am not as endowed as Z’s).
What really hurt me is that I came to know that during our first date, she thought that I was not as handsome as she thought, but that she was beyond the “beauty stage”, so that was not an issue anymore. To my eyes, this indicates that she needs to pass the “shell” to find what attracts her to me. Basically she is weighting out the physical aspect with my personality and my intelligence. This is very upsetting to me. Mainly for two reasons: 1) because I am not expecting everybody to like my looks, but at least the person I am in a relationship with should. 2) because event though she is not a cover-magazine beauty, I can’t stop thinking of some physical traits of hers which, 20 years from now, will make me thank God that I am waking up next to her every morning. Wondering at the same time if she is going to run a CT scan to my brain a thank God because her hubby is so smart.
As I am falling deeper and deeper for her, I can’t stop thinking that this would be an original sin, a bias to our relationship, especially if projected in the future. I think we all deserve a relation where both affection and attraction are present, and I would rather stay on my own then live (or knowing that she is leaving) for anything less than that.
@Andy, #139, You should read this thread, where the woman is worried her boyfriend only loves her looks!
If you don’t meet someone right away, they’re definitely going to have a few fantasies about what you might look like, and that’s the risk you took in waiting two months to meet. Would you feel better if she had shallowly dumped you on the first date for not meeting her expectations looks-wise? Or are you glad that she looked beyond the “shell” to see what made the man? She’s with YOU, not those guys from her past that may have been taller or better endowed (and also probably not as smart and not as much fun to be around!) Don’t let your insecurities drive a wedge between you.
Andy-
I mean- I don’t know, because I’m not in your situation, but as a woman, I would never say some of the things your girlfriend has said to you (even if I were thinking them). That must have been very hurtful for you to hear. 🙁
Andy #139
I agree, there are red flags here. Why is she providing very detailed info about past intimate relationships to you that it doesn’t seem that you want to hear? And what is this “almost perfect”, but “not to the extent she wishes” business? I’m with Sayanta, even if you are thinking these things, you don’t say them.
Andy, (#139)
I agree with Cat (#141). I think you’re being insecure about your relationship.
Her previous relationships broke up for a reason. Those other men had their own flaws and problems.
My current girlfriend has dated men who were taller, more muscular, smarter, funnier, wealthier, more successful, (and I would assume better endowed and better lovers). This doesn’t bother me. I’m not insecure about myself, and (most importantly) I’m the one who is easiest to get along with.
I don’t know how your girlfriend is phrasing her comments, but its possible that she’s doing it because she’s insecure as well.
Karl-
I think the phrasing might be the issue- we don’t know. Does your girlfriend tell you that ‘oh, my ex was way better looking than you?” If so…man, you’ve got a thick skin.
My impression is that that’s how Andy’s girl is wording it. Could be wrong of course.
Evan – you are right on the money when it comes to this book and Gottlieb is, too, for writing it. I am a 27-year-old woman livingin Toronto and I have tons of girl friends who are beautiful aesthetically, well-educated with great careers and NO MAN in their lives because “no one is good enough,” “there are no real men out there anymore,” “chivalry is dead,” etc. etc. What do they all have in common? Besides the fact that most of them are unhappy and want a relationship, they ALL blame men for their single status. The whole “all the good ones are taken” mantra. I am in a new relationship after dating for several months, but it wasn’t very hard for me to find The One (again!) because I – YES – settled. And by settle I mean choose to be ina relationship with a great man who’s a 10 in my eyes 🙂 I could have gone on dating forever but a real relationship has to be built over the course of a long while and dating just stops you from getting there; so find someone you like and stop dating and let the love grow. It can’t grow overnight. And I am a big believer in “like attracts like,” if you think the good ones are all taken (and let’s face it, the older we get, the good ones do get snatche dup – but first ask yourself if YOU, YOURSELF, are really a good woman, do you know how to be in a good relationship? are you materialistic? nurturing? or not…etc.) then you will attract bad apples through your own negativity. Stop putting the onus on men to shore up and start becoming a better person with a less-inflated ego. Something about big city-living breeds women who thin the world of themselves and then wonder why their single…uhhh, maybe it’s because your personality sucks. I mean, would you date someone who thinks no one is good enough for them? Geez. Okay that’s my rant of the day.
Im sorry, from my experience men dont want women unless they are a size zero, under 5’6″, and make a crap load of money. Otherwise youre for sex. plan and simple . 🙁
FedUp #146
Really? Do you honestly believe that? I can’t think of any of my happily married girlfriends who fit your description.
FedUp said: (#146)
“from my experience men dont want women unless they are a size zero, under 5’6”³, and make a crap load of money.”
I’m not an expert on women’s sizes, but size zero and 5’5″ … isn’t that kind of scrawny?
I really don’t want to be able to count my girlfriend’s ribs.
Well I am under 5’6″… been rejected many times for being too short.
Not a size zero, but I am about a four. Then again, I’m 5’3″.
Making a crapload of money? ha ha ha ha ha… I was the one who married up!
I’m really hoping #146 is just exaggerating! If not, well, um, what kind of company are you keeping?
#146, do you really believe that? I’m also under 5’6″ (5’4″) but have been rejected many times for being too short, like SS.
I’m not a size 0 anymore but am still a size 2. I get dates but also get rejected by guys who find me too thin. I was a size 0 (at my thinnest, 00) and less than 100 pounds until my late 20s. Back then I got plenty of rejections by men who thought I looked way too frail. In retrospect that really was too scrawny! I’m still slim but look much better since losing that emaciated look.
I now make good money, but that hasn’t exactly sent a ton of fabulous men my way either!
Seriously, what kind of men are you encountering?
I don’t know why should be surprised that so many people in this discussion believe love is something can be quantified.Perhaps “love” is the wrong word–
physical attraction is more specific.
There aren’t any rules that one can set down about height, age differances, or any other such things. Given that in the U.S., 50% of couples who play by the acepted rules wind up in divorce court, it should seem clear that the safe, conservative path is an invitation to disater.
Let me say something about this “settling business”. It’s a trap. Good enough cuts it if you’re willing to open the pandora’s box of quite likely living the marital equivalent of Thoreaus’ life of quiet desperation.
Current neurophysiology has established there is an unconscious and it can sabotage us in many insidious ways. If you’re a woman who’s romantic ideal was
a guy like Jack Bauer or Alan Shore and you settle for a self-effacing CPA, that ideal is not going to dissipate. If you’re a guy who likes “dancer’s legs” on a woman and your wife has legs like pencils, what do you think is going to be going on in your head every time you see such a woman: she’ll be compared unfavorably to your ideal.
Helen Keller said, “Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.” I cannot think of a single great thinker who suggested we should be satisfied with winning the silver medal–or the bronze unless it was St.Paul or Marcus Aurellius.
The problem with most men and women when it comes to finding a partner is that they are choked by timidity. They would rather take the safe path then roll the dice and say, “THIS is the kind of man or woman I want and I’ll either find a way of making it happen or I’ll go to my grave unmarried.”
Until you can stake it all on a single roll of the dice, you don’t know how liberating it can be. I have a “romantic ideal”. She is so far out of my class that I sometimes question my sanity but then again, genious always has a touch of madness in it.
The surprising thing is, that since I know exactly what I want, I have lost all fear about approaching, and talking to. women who I once thought were unapproachable. I know before I say a single word that they’re not the one so what do I care if I’m ignored, rebuffed, or mocked. They’re not the one. I’m just
approaching them for the same reason I’d walk up to a Monet or Renoir at the Met museum: I get a bit of a buzz contemplating beauty.
The other thing is I don’t care if I get shot down 50 times or a 100. As a matter of fact someone–I think the CEO for IBM said–if you want to succedd more fail twice as much.”
People are soooooo afraid of the word “no” or being laughed at or put down. And why? We know our limitations or those things about us that we find unappealing. We should be shattered because they’re suggesting what we think about ourselvesmay be true–that were not not attractive, buffed, or charismatic as we wished ourselves to be.
“Settle” if you want but there’s going to come a time–and it’s going to be a bad day for you when you realize Mark Twain nailed it when he said: “Twenty years from now you won’t remember the chances you took; you’ll remember all those opportunities you let pass you by.”
Two last considerations: first. if you get proactive you’re going to get shot down by as many “5’s” as “10’s” so you might as well crash and burn with the 10.
And second, the
e who makes your heart skip a beat may be a “10” in one way but I know one thing: everyone of us is a “10”in one way or another.
Never think you are anyone’s inferioror superior. The Hindi language has an expression: “Neti, net1: “Neither this or that”. You’re neither the superstar ytou might think you are or the biggest loser; the man or woman you’re attracted to is neither attracted to you or unattracted to you.
A world of possibilities are opened when you you see the futility of putting people in boxes with labelson them.
Sorry John. The population of the planet would not survive if everyone held out for their ideal. Want to know why? Because no man or woman could ever measure up to our perfect ideal. Anyone who is upset about their wife’s “pencil” legs even though she’s a great person are very shallow. The reason the divorce rte is 50% is because people don’t take commitment seriously, and are looking for the other person to make them happy and fulfill their every fantasy. And remember marriage takes two. You may find someone to be ideal, but they may think you’re a joke. I hope you ditch this viewpoint before you pass up a lot of quality women who could make you happy.
@John Carpenter # 151
Come back when you’re 50 and tell us how you do.
You’re correct – most people want to have someone in their life rather than risk going to their grave solo. If that’s something YOU’RE willing to risk, fine for you – the rest of us would rather compromise on a few requirements than be alone for most of our lives.
The rest of us want to find that line between Mr or Mrs “Perfect” and Mr or Mrs “Good Enough”. If you want to have kids, you better decide this quickly, because Mother Nature wants you to have them sooner, not later. If you want to spend 60 years of your life enjoying the company of someone you respect, enjoy and trust, then you better find them before you’re thirty, as average lifespans these days are still less than 100 years.
Everything is a compromise, a tradeoff.
@John 151. Perfect today won’t be perfect tomorrow. You need to share a system to build and refresh “good enough”.
I just finished reading Marry Him and to be honest, I will be reading it again. I absolutely loved this book! I can relate on so many levels. There are many good guys that I dated for a short time in the past just to let them go because the “sparks” did not fly right away. Then I would end up dating someone who treated me terribly but I let him because we had “chemistry”. Lori reiterates much of what Evan says in blogs all of the time: Chemistry is misleading. I can only speak for myself, but since reading Evan’s blog and Lori’s book, I ended a bad relationship that had a lot of chemistry but was completely toxic in every way and I am now dating a “nice guy” – probably the first “nice guy” that I’ve ever given a chance. I couldn’t be happier! It’s such a relief to not have to worry “is he going to call? or Is he interested in me?” because he’s completely reliable and honest. Thank you Evan for getting me addicted to your blog and wonderful advice!
You’re welcome. Thanks for the kind words.
April. Fantastic. I think that is what success is supposed to look like.
Lots of people don’t know what success looks like.
If you don’t know what success looks like how will you know it when you find it?
Not Jerry – So true. For years I was looking for the wrong things in men: eye color, height, build – things that don’t matter in the grande scheme of life! When I finally realized this (thanks to Evan and Lori), I started looking for character, consistency, honesty and good moral values – things that actually have value, I found myself falling for someone who fit the important criteria. There’s something so much more rewarding about dating someone who is honestly a good person than dating someone who is just good looking.
April,
Welcome to adulthood.
The dating sites are full of people who only see those superficial things. They are looking in the wrong place, that is if you are looking for a keeper. If you are just dating, well, sounds like too much of a grind to me.
Those superficial things, trust me, they fade over time.
The things you found are actually important, that’s what matters. You will be able to appreciate that after you’re married 30 years.
The very best of luck to you!
You know, women could actually have their cake and eat it too, in a way that men really can’t.
Women CAN (and I believe SHOULD) have sex with that hot alpha guy she feels chemistry with, but she needs to walk away after sex instead of clinging on hoping he’s going to choose her for an LTR. Jump him and dump him, I say.
And while she’s having all the casual sex she wants with all the alpha studs who’ll have her, she can take her time way to qualify the less studly guys for LTRs. And take it as slowly as she wants with the beta guy, since she’s getting her sexual needs met with the alpha studs.
Yeah, yeah, we women “bond” during sex. So we can’t do that.
Hmmm. No. I believe the sex-shaming narrative was created by unattractive males in collusion with unattractive females. To ensure that beautiful women can’t have it all. Beauty, sex with handsome hunks, and LTRs with faithful betas. Not fair!!
If you’re really “pro-women” — which I am, despite all my insecurity-shaming posts, if you’re a woman, you should all wish to be that woman who can have sex with the stud and walk away, in addition to the ability to choose the right LTR guy who is compatible with her in the long run.
Men don’t have these powers.
They cannot get casual sex with HOT people whenever they want. We women CAN.
The “regular” guys who are commitment-oriented can’t get commitment from us unless they have the credentials we want (minus the studliness, remember, we get that from casual sex guy).
The key is to not let your hormones overtake your common sense when it comes to the studly guy. Make a deliberate decision to dump him after sex. In other words, when you’re hit with that blinding chemistry, which IS misleading — just give in to the attraction ONCE. And move on. You already know he’s not relationship material. But that doesn’t mean he’s not f*ckable 😉
And I don’t know about most women, but I can count on one hand when I’ve been hit with “blinding chemistry”. So really, allowing yourself to indulge in chemistry one night a decade doesn’t seem like such a bad thing.
But if you’re a woman who gets blinded by chemistry every day, then maybe it’s not such a good idea. You might need to visit a therapist for that condition.
All kidding aside, the mistake is not in indulging in chemistry. The mistake is thinking that chemistry will lead to a lasting, happy relationship. If you already know it won’t last and that it won’t be happy, then you can make a conscious decision to indulge or not to indulge. But if you indulge, you have to have the courage to walk away, especially if the sex was amazing. Because THAT is what causes the pain…to indulge in a sexual relationship believing that it is an emotional one. Great sex does NOT equal great emotions.
Karmic, some people want friends with benefits. Some do not.
I wouldn’t touch it myself, but as I said, I am looking for “the one.”
Not that many women can just turn attachment on and off at will, like maybe you can.
“Not that many women can just turn attachment on and off at will, like maybe you can.”
That’s because they don’t try. Because the cultural narrative is that women CANNOT.
The attachment comes from the release of bonding chemicals. Instead of “getting high” these chemicals make her “get attached”.
If we believe we can rehab drug addicts, we can rehab women from that “attachment addiction”.
She just has to realize those feelings she feels after sex towards the man she had sex with are NOT REAL. They are chemically induced feelings.
Let’s say that “smoking joints” makes a woman high AND attaches her to the man she smokes it with. So she keeps smoking joints and all of a sudden those attachment feelings are “real” feelings and no longer chemically induced?
If she knows that smoking joints makes her attach, she can stop smoking them (as most women seem to do) or if she really likes the act of smoking joints (and likes getting high), she can just learn to discount her “attachment” as fake feelings that result from joint smoking and stop believing that the man who smoked the joint with her is someone special.
It’s the JOINT that’s special, not the man.
Or they don’t want to. They don’t want to be rehabbed to be as shallow as a male friend of mine whom I call “my shallow friend.”
Most women want their lives to be the way they want them. They want real feelings, they want to actually find love and they don’t want to compromise their principles like you seem to be comfortable with.
That’s how they want to live their lives.
Lots of women like that. Most, by far.
Karmic, you are an outliar, you are nothing like what I consider a normal woman.
Your feelings are evident on this blog and they are way out from the way most women I know want to be. And I am glad of that.
Your slut-shaming falls on deaf ears, Not Jerry.
I’m not slut. I’m just not an oxytocin addict. I kicked that habit a LONG time ago.
Men like you are afraid of women fully exercising her sexuality.
That’s why you sex-shame, women and “your shallow friend”.
Women who have kicked their oxytocin habit can see right through men like you.
The narrative that says women “cannot” have sex without attachment benefits two types of people: unattractive beta males and women who fear sex. Because the only way those people can find attractive partners is to make sure the ones who are attractive and unafraid of their sexuality are marginalized.
Real, sexually liberated women, who believe in full equality, in and out of the bedroom, do not have time for the lazy, sex-shaming betas like you.
And since you don’t feel you need to pursue women and it’s their job to pursue you, even the the sexually repressed women aren’t interested in you.
Stop the sex-shaming. There is nothing wrong with sex between consenting adults. What is wrong is for society to say it’s wrong.
Karmic, I didn’t slut shame you.
I said a good number of women don’t want to live that way. That’s obviously true. You cannot romanticize sleeping around on here, that is not the kind of behavior most people are comfortable with. It can change your life, too.
It used to be the worst thing you could get could be cured with penicillin. Not anymore.
FWIW, neither do I. I don’t have sex with just anyone, I am very selective.
That said, I think sex between consenting adults is more than fine.
Lots of people who want to move forward to the next stage of their life are not doing that, or not much.
It’s not just this that you are an OUTLIER on, lots of your opinions are out there, at the edge of what most people would be comfortable with.
You are probably the number one commenter on this blog.
We all have had plenty of your opinions to judge you by. Some are OK, but some are out there.
For what it’s worth, Karmic Equation and I have almost the same exact opinions on things. The only way she’s an outlier is because she’s a woman who has the capacity to think like a man.
Thanks, Not Jerry. I consider not being a “normal woman” a compliment 🙂
The reality is that it is not I who “romanticize[s] sleeping around on here…”
On the contrary, I believe it is normal human behavior to have sex. The words “sleeping around” is culturally ascribed and has negative connotations. Note how YOU use “sleeping around” and I use the non-judgmental words “having sex”.
Your terminology is indicative of societal and cultural brainwashing of women (and apparently you) into believing that sex is “only appropriate” in relationships.
If one is single, sex is appropriate when s/he finds another person attractive who also finds him/her attractive. Period.
“Sex is appropriate only in a relationship” is a judgment…by religion…by society…by men who can’t get casual sex easily.
EMK,
As you said. She is a woman who has the capacity to think like a man. Not typical.
That said, I don’t have a problem with consensual sex between adults, I just pointed out that many women don’t think that makes that much sense for them. Maybe most women.
Not that it doesn’t happen. Sure it does.
But Karmic was romanticizing it and talking about how great it is. OK, then a lot of other women should be weighing in on this thread and agreeing with you. I’ll wait. We shall see.
It’s not a matter of whether Karmic’s opinions are typical, but whether they’re right. In my opinion, she’s got a far better (and more objective) grasp on reality than just about everyone. If that’s “at the edge of what most people would be comfortable with” I guess that explains why she’s a regular commenter, and why a very moderate blog like mine seems so controversial.
Not Jerry,
Either you’re being deliberately dense or your confirmation bias is working at top speed.
I actually treat sex like most guys treat sex. It’s not special, it’s necessary.
As a woman, she can have it whenever she wants to. She doesn’t need to save it up for the “special guy” or the “special moment” or special circumstance, as in “committed relationship”.
YOU are romanticizing sex. That it SHOULD be only be with a special someone, a special occasion, a special circumstance.
I think of having sex as the same as eating food. Eating food every day is normal. I shouldn’t just eat on Saturday nights with my boyfriend. I want to eat 3 meals a day 7 days a week. (Much as I like sex, that’s way too much even for me, once a day is enough 😉 )
Hopefully you get my drift. Sex itself is NOT special. I don’t treat it that way. Sex is a necessary part of LIFE, not just a “special part” of a relationship.
Society, religion, and men who can’t get casual sex sex are the ones who “romanticize” sex, and sex shame those who DON’T think it’s special.
Well, Karmic, I guess it depends on what you want your future life to look like.
I have been alone just a few years, I have had a few relationships in that period. I don’t particularly like dating, I only do it to find the person I am supposed to wake up next to for the rest of my life. So that is what I want my life to look like. Permanent.
Some people don’t have that as a goal.
Some are dating for fun, some are single and likely to remain single. Maybe you- I don’t know what your vision of what you want your future to look like is. You have the standards you have because they further that.
They’re not my standards.
I weed out a lot of the women I meet as not likely to be a keeper. The vast majority, in fact.
I get a few objections to that process. Heh.
I don’t have sex with mulitple people carelessly. And I expect a woman to be the same. I had many chances to sleep with very attractive women. Some were married, some had boyfriends and some were single. All I can say it’s not a good thing.
Any man worth a damn isn’t going to marry a whore/slut because it’s for a whore to stop. Karmic claims not be addicted however she is if she can’t live without sex.
Last time I checked you don’t need sex to live, unlikely food, water, air, shelter and money which requirements to live on. I certainly don’t want a woman acting like a man.
“Women CAN (and I believe SHOULD) have sex with that hot alpha guy she feels chemistry with, but she needs to walk away after sex instead of clinging on hoping he’s going to choose her for an LTR. Jump him and dump him, I say.
”
Sounds like what many but not all MGTOW men do. Pump and dump women because they aren’t worthy of marriage or relationship.
I still think it’s wrong men or women.
I want what everyone wants: happiness.
I’m a happy person and I like having someone to share my happiness with. My current boyfriend and I have been dating for about 5 months.
We started talking on Super Bowl Sunday. We slept together the first time on the last Sunday of March. We had our first date (dinner) on Monday. And we’ve been exclusive since that Sunday. Yes, I did it backwards. And yet I managed to get into an exclusive relationship without every talking about it.
Did I envision this for myself? No. But neither did I have any visions to the contrary. I just lived my life being me and being open to possibilities.
Would I be in this relationship if I had done it the “traditional” way? Get courted, i.e., have f0rmal dates. Lead him around the bases. Have the exclusivity talk before sex, etc? Doubtful. He’s pretty free-spirited and that kind of “process” would have felt too contrived for him.
That said, we have literally spent every day and every night together since that last Sunday in March (except the night I was in the emergency room). And yet it feels good and not “smothering” in the least. We don’t get sick of each other’s company.
And he doesn’t have any idea how truly intelligent I am. I think he would be shocked at what I write and how I communicate in this blog. He doesn’t see this side of me. Not because I “dumb down” for him. And I’m not “afraid” to lose him if he knew. But because he doesn’t NEED to see or hear this “outlier” thinking side of me. It doesn’t help or hurt our relationship for him to know this side of me exists.
And on the off-chance that my out-of-the-box thinking slips into his awareness, it just makes me more interesting in his eyes, not scary.
I meant OUTSIDE-the-box thinking.
I rarely ‘t think out of the box. lol
Spot on Karmic!
I am one of those lucky ladies : ))
Thanks, LC2. I think that makes 3 of us. Julia was another one.
She’s happily engaged now 🙂
I didn’t read all the replies below between you and Not Jerry but I agree with you. I have this on and off again relationship with this man who just turns me on to no end but I know we are not a match. So while I look for someone long term, I go and have sex with him while I can. It’s great and I know that he is not relationship material (various red flags but he is always nice and respectful to me). When I say goodbye, he will be surprised because he thinks he has me hooked. It’s great being a woman.
Absolutely! Go have your fun, Karmic. Exert your power as a woman to have as much sex as you can. They key?
Don’t hurt anyone in the process. The power women have, due to being the sex that is pursued, is massive. Those “regular” guys you seem to mock have feelings, too.
I don’t believe in the slut-shaming game, but nor do I believe in “all women should”. If they choose to do what is suggested, that is her business. But it’s not a one size fits all solution.
I read this book and I very much agree with what you have written here! I read it when I was engaged and yes, I agree with your observation that what Gottleib means is « compromise » when she says « settle » (and yeah, it’s pretty obvious that this was the publisher’s decision, to drum up controversy and get people’s attention). Yeah it is a great book whether you’re single (and looking), engaged or married, lesbian or straight.
Is the author still single? has she taken her own advice?
She is still single. But she has a nee book on the New York Times bestsellerr list so shed no tears for her.
The title is unfortunate – Ms Gottlieb has stated in interviews (and if memory serves, in your podcast) that it wasn’t her choice (I noticed on Amazon it’s been reissued in other countries retitled as “Mr Good Enough”). I’ve recommended this book to so many people, both men and women. It’s a funny, sad, heartfelt read with a great message and a big reason for that is EMK’s participation as her dating coach.