Am I Too Old to Have Success in Online Dating?
Hi Evan,
I feel like I am “aging out” of online dating. I’ve noticed after my last birthday (I turned 54 in June) that the response I get on match.com has dropped to almost nothing. It’s as though moving from the early 50s to the mid 50s is some kind of death-knell for a dating life. I initiate contact with men in an age-range of about 3 years younger up to about 8 years older than myself. The potential matches that the site sends me are age appropriate for me, but when I look at the age-range that those men desire, (usually 35-50) I often move past them, knowing I can’t compete with women in their desired range, even though many of those men are as much as 5-8 years older than me! In other words, Match.com knowingly sends me matches that are probably not realistic for me to pursue. When I have emailed some of those guys, I never hear back. I’m guessing they check out my profile, see my age, and probably read no further. Even if I am within their desired range, I still don’t get much of a response. I assume the reason for this is they can get younger women to respond to them, so why would they go for me when they have a chance with the 45 year-old version of me? If their first wife was their age, like a college sweetheart or whatever, they probably feel entitled to a newer model, so to speak. Our culture encourages this. It’s frustrating, not to mention depressing and more than a little humiliating. It’s the built-in folly of online sites: you are only defined by your age, in bold type right next to your user name.
I am a youthful, fit and free-spirited woman and to be honest, I’m not ready for the retired 65-70+ year old guys. I don’t mean those men any disrespect, I just want to date a guy closer to my age so that I have a longer future with him, and I don’t feel that I should have to apologize for that. I have taken your and others’ advice about profile writing, and I have great photos, so I feel confident that the problem is not in how I present myself. I am disinclined to lie about my age. It always comes out eventually and I’d hate to have to explain myself then. I’m not ashamed of my age and hiding it seems phony. When I meet men in person in my daily life, I get a better response because they see the whole me, hear my voice, get a sense of what I’m like, all before they know how old I am, meaning I can be defined by other qualities. It’s difficult to meet large numbers of men that way, but I’m starting to feel like my chance of making a non age-biased connection with a guy is only out in the real world. And the real-world opportunities can be few and far between. Any insight?
Sara
Dear Sara,
Older men have more options than older women (online and in real life) because they can usually date somewhat younger.
I can’t disagree with anything you’ve observed about online dating and age. I can only disagree with your ultimate conclusion.
So here are the facts:
Older men have more options than older women (online and in real life) because they can usually date somewhat younger.
Older men have a huge blind spot when it comes to age. They refuse to even consider women their own age, even if she’s fit and attractive. Worse, they’re hypocritical about it, because they don’t understand why the vast majority of younger women won’t go for them.
And yet, the fastest growing segment for online dating is the 50+ market. More unhappy couples are getting divorced when the kids leave the house. More people work from home. More people spend 10 hours a day at the office. More people have computers and are aware of someone who found love online.
We also know that dating online does not mean that you’re not dating men you meet in real life. Which is why this is not an either/or choice. If you meet a guy through friends, at the market, at a concert, great. Having a profile on Match.com isn’t going to keep you from doing that.
Most people who say they’ve taken my advice have only taken a few pieces of my advice. Which is like saying you’re going on a diet by cutting out sugar, but continuing to eat large portions of fried foods.
Now that we’ve established that online dating is a smart and necessary long-term strategy for women over 50, the question becomes, “What can you do better?”
You think you’re doing everything you can possibly do. And you may be trying your best, but you’re not truly maximizing your potential.
In all likelihood, despite your efforts, I’m betting your profile can be better, your photos can be better, your responses to men could be better, your initial emails to men could be better, and your choices in men could be better.
Are you using Reverse Match? Are you using Daily Matches? Are you adding men to your favorites list? Are you putting in a half hour a day? Are you initiating contact with at least one man a day who states that he’s open to women your age?
I don’t know the answer, but most people who say they’ve taken my advice have only taken a few pieces of my advice.
Which is like saying you’re going on a diet by cutting out sugar, but continuing to eat large portions of fried foods.
My recommendation — if you haven’t done it already — is to go through every word in Finding the One Online. It’s 7 hours/180 pages of advice that takes you through the entire process of online dating chronologically. I’m betting you can find TWENTY things you can do differently to get different results.
But don’t kid yourself.
You can’t change men.
You can’t change online dating.
You don’t have to quit online dating to meet men in real life.
All you can do is change your mindset and approach to the dating process and let the chips fall where they may.
And since I’ve helped a LOT of women over 50, I have to believe that all you can do is keep on keeping on, instead of embracing the idea that NO women over the age of 50 find partners online.
It just ain’t true.
Great timing for this post as my 54th birthday looms up next month. I agree with everything Evan says and based on your advice Evan Ive tweaked my profile with your suggestions e.g. making it about what I offer them . Most importantly I agree your photos have to be great.
I chose to adjust my age down a few years since I was being eliminated by what seems like half the men my age when I put my real age. Since Im in very good shape physically it doesn’t seem a problem when I disclose my real age when someone makes initial contact.
Match is a much more age criteria oriented site than say POF.
Ive asked some of the guys my age who have contacted me as an “exception” about their success with their age range search. It is often 10-20 years younger than them and these are very “average” appearing guys . They have told me of their frustration with lack of responses. What interesting is that younger guys ( early 40s) vs those my own age seem more interested.
As a middle age guy, I really don’t buy into the dating online scene. I tried it for about 6 months once years ago and found it to be a time consuming wasted effort for the most part. I put that time into persuing what I love to do and enrich my life. I have a wonderful career and enjoy playing music part time. I am happier now then ever before, and more women come into my life because of that success.
Johnboy, I don’t understand your rationale for posting.
Is it to inform us that you have broken free of the shackles created by a mindset that external forces dictate happiness? Is it an achievement of some objective?
I suppose congratulations may be in order, but read as you’ve written it, I see a guy who’s engaging in a form of gloating, derisiveness, or ridiculing others for attempting to extract value from online dating resources.
Really? I read it as sharing his experience. I think you’re being incredibly defensive here. This man is saying that maybe there’s something not so great about online dating – framed it as his experience and offered it in a forum in which people are discussing their frustrations with that issue. Do you honestly think people should only come here to praise what you want praised? What an odd odd way to look at the world.
Sounds like what he’s saying is there are good middle age men out there but they aren’t online, I second that, onlinebottom of the barrel, offline vibrant, attractive and in touch. I’ll bet he dates his own age too because he sees the value of women that age rather than expecting a pat on the back for it, only the singles scene crowd have such open and ingrained contempt for women. The middle age men who shop online do it as a last resort because no one can stand them offline, as he said you meet people when you have a life (and therefore don’t need online), men that age online don’t have a life. I’d say this is encoraging for the OP.
I get what you are saying. When my marriage fell apart a year ago people tried to reassure me that I was a catch. And I still thing I should be – am tall, trim, look young for 48, run my own successful company, know how to dance, am a community leader with environmental education and in my profession, lecture at university, write, from an exotic place (Alaska). As a result I am very busy so online dating looked like the solution. But in fact in six I can count on one hand the number of women who have written back and no actual dates. I picked women in my own date range and attractiveness range. Just to check I wrote to quite older women and less attractive than myself. Nothing. Got on Tinder and swiped nearly every woman. Tried all sorts of pictures. Nothing. When I talk to my female friends they say they are inundated. The only dates I have had, 2, were from old friends who both told me they had been fantasising about me for years but then they left it at that and rarely return my calls. At Meetups women seem interested but they don’t respond. Just don’t understand this, it is as if they expect me to pursue them and I am reluctant to do that because the two times I did that when my marriage was souring permanently alienated good friends. Really out to sea on all of this – so much has changed since I was last dating 26 years ago.
To be honest am grateful in a way. I think a large part of my motivation is just to feel like I am still attractive to women. In reality am enjoying being my own man, and don’t really want a relationship. Women are probably able to see through me on that.
Aww, Sam. Sounds like you are a good guy and doing all you can to find someone new.
A few things you need to know, nowadays, women want good looking as much as men want “beauty”.
But the definition of “good looking men” to women varies probably more widely than the definition of “beautiful women” to men. For example, a balding man may still be considered good looking by a lot of women, whereas a woman with thinning hair would not be considered beautiful by most people, never mind men.
Most men think they look young for their age, when in fact they don’t, so you may look young for your age or you may not. But “young-looking men” don’t turn on women the way young-looking women turn men on. Handsome faces, at whatever age, turns women on, a la Sean Connery, Tom Selleck, and Sam Elliot.
Since you left out “handsome” then I’m going to assume you may be average looking. In which case, in the age of the internet, you would be at a disadvantage.
While Evan is a proponent of the internet, I believe he met his wife via setup by friends. So you might want to ask your friends to set you up.
If you’ve gone on dates, and they don’t progress to 2nd dates, then something about your behaviors during dates may have turned women off. Or it could simply be the way you dress, style your hair, etc., that could have turned women off.
You might need to ask some gal-friends to give you advice on whether you need a physical makeover of some kind (wardrobe as well as hair). And talk to some single gal-friends whose opinions you respect about your dates to see if they can give you some insights to improving whatever behaviors you may need to improve upon for dating success.
Without knowing you, I would say, don’t try “too hard” to be anything you’re not. Be yourself. It could simply be that women think you’re trying too hard. Women dislike that the same way men dislike insecurity in women. We prefer authenticity, even if that is more rough around the edges than a guy who tries too hard to please.
“While Evan is a proponent of the internet, I believe he met his wife via setup by friends. So you might want to ask your friends to set you up.”
I wasn’t set up with my wife. We met at a party – even though we were both on Match at the same time. That says far more about our limiting search criteria (her: no Jewish guys, me: no older women) than it does about online dating itself.
Thanks for the sympathy. Not balding, have full head of hair with gray at the temples, and women do flirt with me quite a bit. Didn’t say handsome because how am I to know, really, but actually think I must be in a classic way quite handsome. Have had a number of friends with fashion sense help dress me.
Perhaps my problem is a tendency to be very friendly and helpful and smile all the time. Can’t pull off looking or feeling angry, which was a problem in my marriage where I was walked all over, had very little intimacy, and didn’t feel respected. Have been told I come off like a goofy kid, a bit hyper. Women don’t seem to find that appealing.
The ‘aww’ comment says it all. Women adopt me like I am their little brother or their kid or their gay friend or maybe their uncle. They mean well but I actually experience that as disempowering.
Ok. Sam. I get the picture.
Well, if you’re vibing you don’t want a relationship and most women in their late 40s are looking for relationships, no kidding they wouldn’t want to date you again, if they sense that.
Why don’t you date the women who flirt with you?
Actually there is one woman I want to be with. She will be back in town in a year and she likes me, but timing, geography etc. doesn’t work and we both decided to drop it for the time being. To be honest I’m internally focused on her. Friends are telling me to play the field and not be so serious, and so I am just trying to put myself out there to get some confidence. My experience hasn’t been confidence building though – lol.
Actually KE, that must be it. I’m pretty honest on my profile and in person that I’m just looking for something fun and nothing serious.
All the women’s profile are so earnest about wanting a heavy relationship right off the bat before they even get to know you. That kind of language steers me away but for many guys this would simultaneously turn them off a relationship while communicating to them how they need to lie in order to get what they want. Most men my age that I talk to are very gun shy about loosing their freedom (they are fairly emotionally bruised by past relationships). At the same time not having sex feels lousy and is hard to put up with. In thinking about it, women might want to issue challenges to men to become better men, rather than give a list of ‘criteria’ that unscrupulous guys will tick off to get off.
What I am writing is just garbage borne out of frustration.
Kathleen, I’m an older man and most women on line in my age group make out they are not interested in the younger men. But of course they are. It’s just that all the younger men approaching older women are predominantly, looking for what they consider to be the fastest way to get easy sex. They only show interest in men their own age when the supply of younger men dries up, or the men start to lose interest in them. it is insulting to me. And that’s why I’m not interested in the women, my age who approach me.
Pardon me but your statement makes little sense, John. I have never dated all the young guys and then, when that ‘pool’ dries up, relented and finally started considering men my own age. Most women aren’t like that. I have personally prefertired older men my whole life, but I am ‘too old’ for them. People too fickle in online dating sites.
John–So you claim the younger women are genuinely interested in you and not in younger men, but the older women are really only interested in younger guys and *might* settle for you when the supply runs out? What a crock! It’s clearly YOU who want younger lovers and will not consider prospects of your own age. And you’re projecting your own issues on the latter.
I didn’t get into “younger women……genuinely interested” in me. We musn’t generalise. My point in my earlier comment is valid in many cases though. Sure, I find women who are younger than me (not too much younger) more attractive – on balance. Don’t we all find youth and beauty appealling ?? Or maybe it’s just me lol ;-).
As a 72 yr old male looking for a companion around my age, I recently joined one of the top rated sites but am frustrated by the number of 40-45 yr old ladies that keep contacting me. Guess I’m just wasting my time.
Men over 45 do have more options regarding dating. But there are ways around this. First, a woman has to specifically state what she offers a man (that he wants) in the context of dating and relationships. I’ve read thousands of female profiles (35-55 years old) and almost none of them actually state what they offer a man. Normally, it’s a list of demands and preferences. This is not good marketing. A woman must be able to answer the question “What do I offer a man that he wants?” If she doesn’t know, (or is offended by the question) she’s not ready for dating.
Here’s something else to consider – while women are the gatekeepers to sexuality, men are the gatekeepers to commitment.
What do men offer?
Men offer stability, security and love. A true man in the traditional sense will meet the needs of a woman be it sexual, emotional or financial. Its built into us to protect and to provide.
and there are about as many of these true men as there are true women out there. lmoa
I think you are biased in your opinion. It is not about marketing as much as it is about compatability…something you never spoke of. You can market all you want and get a bad product. Be thoughtful Men are not gatekeepers to commitment. Men are men.. Trusebreakers, unfaithful and such is life. When I say men I mean humanity.
Andrew, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
The truth is that ANY good dating profile (regardless of one’s age) must show what you offer to the readers, rather than just a laundry list of demands. Entirely too many profiles of both genders do not take the audience into account. Sadly, many of the ones that DO offer a lot are scammers. But that is a different problem.
Most mens profiles are shopping lists and “stay and away if” they barely tell you about themselves let alone what they have to offer, when you talk to them it’s all about them and what they want and stuff that you need to be getting something out of it, you’re not taken into consideration at all. Women flooded with mail have no choice but to say no to someone hiding behind a list of demands. Men want women to put it all out there so they can go “nope, nope, nope not good enough” in the face of your generosity and hospitality but they never look in the mirror.
Also sick of hearing women have to do this or that to get a man, every age group gets it, what am I getting exactly? A whinger who thinks the world revolves around him, “nope, not good enough”. You want women to open up and put themselves at risk (and for women meeting strangers who use dating sites to narrow down candidates, or is that prey, the risks are significant and potentially deadly) then you need to lead by example with an open profile yourself, transparency and taking things at an intensity and pace that makes her feel like she can trust you. If you force it and get a bite don’t complain later she’s “psycho” because only someone who is out of her mind would offer herself up like that to whoever just happens to come along.
Andrew
Beside sexual favors… just kidding…..what do you specifically want to see women offer in her profile ?
I can’t imagine a woman being offended by that question. Im in sales and you are right Its all about marketing to fill a need
My advice besides the review and polishing Evan recommends, is to try some of the senior dating sites. I’ve seen one called ourtime, i think that is specifically for 45 and up. Match comes across as the proverbial meat market where everyone thinks they can order up their version of fillet minion and lobster and are puzzled and militant when they don’t get it.
I’m only 4 months into 46 and have noticed that I’m past my sell by date to most men my age. they might grudgingly go to 45 or 44. And I’ve only noticed a limited number of profiles of men who will go 2-4 years older then their age.
Try some other sites do the real life activities where you can meet new people etc. 😀
Misha–Totally agree about choosing another website. I tried match.com when I was 38 and again when I was 43, and as a woman, the drop-off in responses as you get older is sharp there. Something about paying those few dollars a month seems to make men feel entitled to babes no older than 40. I’ve had much better luck with men near my own age on okcupid, even well into my fifties.
I think we all feel this way. I am 31 and rarely receive a response from men under the age of 35, and most men who contact me are over 40. I wouldn’t mind dating a man in his early 30s but its obvious they aren’t interested in women 30 and over.
Julia you are correct. I am 35 and I will not date a woman who is not in her early to mid 20s. Why? Well I have chatted online with very many 30+ women and my conclusion is that the vast majority I’d say 90+% are very bitter, angry, have some preconceived notion against guys being untrustworthy and not to mention they are really bitchy. Its SOOOO hard to have a meaningful fun clean conversation with them. They’re just too much to handle. I hope this doesnt offend you. I did say that it was 90%+ so not everyone falls into this camp.
Jordan speaks truthfully. Not that men can’t be pains in the rear, too; this is as much as a given as his description of bitter, angry women. I don’t play when she turns vicious–just move along. Now I’m finding women 20-30 years younger than me doing the approaching. How times have changed.
Feeling as if you’re walking on eggshells around those women (and self-pitying, bitter men) is your innards telling you to sprint off like Usain Bolt.
I am 38 and look about 10 years younger. On online dating sites, I am usually approached by men whose age vary between mid 20s to mid 60s. In the two cases, i am always surprised. Why are these people unable to relate to women in their age range? I mean I could be the mother to one group and the daughter of the second. What do they talk about? What would they have in common?
Jordan, speaking as a non-bitter, non-angry woman, it’s true that women become more defensive as they grow older. I really wish that wouldn’t happen. I also wish men would behave better and not give women a reason to be so defensive.
I would never berate you for your choices. We live in a free world and can do anything we want. But please consider that there are very very nice women who you are automatically eliminating with this mindset, which oddly enough is based on the same prejudice that you are disparaging. Women in their thirties are great. We love life. We live life. And we have the freedom to do so. We just don’t tolerate BS.
Interesting, just reading this response now. Its funny, as I got slightly older (32) I had more men in their early 30s messaging me, might just be that I improved my profile and pictures. 35-40 were still the vast majority of messages I got. Now I am marrying a man 7 years older than me.
Incredible, so many of these responses are proving out my experience which is that both genders are capable of wild generalizations. It doesn’t help that the format of the sites actually perpetuate disillusionment.
As a pretty attractive 56 year old woman, fit, great job I have concluded, as some of you, that the only good way to meet men my age is in real life.
I don’t even want a man that has gotten too good at navigating online dating.
@Becky
If you are attractive and fit, you are either shooting above your SMV or doing something wrong online. I am a year older than you. If I date within an acceptable age range, I pretty much have my choice of women on dating sites (I dated over 100 women in a little under 2.5 years with heavy pre-date screening and a couple of short-term relationships). Yet, my current girlfriend is four years older than me. Why? Because she neither looks or acts her age.
The reality is that men are interested in women who are warm, fun, flirty, and affectionate. Those qualities are difficult, but not impossible to pull off in a profile. My current girlfriend stated that she was into guitarists and guitar-oriented music in her profile. I have played lead and rhythm guitar off and on since I was 15 years old. I was looking for a woman to whom I was attracted, who shared my values, and who was into music in a big way, and I found one. It took me a while to wrap my head around dating an older woman and a grandmother of young children at that (my children in college), but I kept thinking about what Evan writes about judging the relationship and not the person. I have never had a relationship with a woman that I physically desired that was this easy. Whether or not it will stay this way is to be determined.
By the way, my girlfriend is an executive at a large corporation; therefore, she is very successful. However, that never factored in my desire to be with her because she did not tell me until she was comfortable with the relationship. The reality is that men are not wired to be impressed by status. If anything, a woman having too much status can be turnoff for men because they know that status is important to women. Most of us just desire a woman to whom we are attracted who will not be a financial sink. We desire the things that we cannot obtain from our male friends from our partner.
You are still young. Older men have more to offer. Younger men are stil trying to find themselves. Consider yourself fortunate.
I am 53 and can relate to the writer’s frustration, but also agree with all of Evan’s advise. I met my now fiance, 2 years younger, on-line last year on OKCupid.com, a free site, after having very limited success with Match.com (paid). Venture onto some other sites, be patient, do the work. It only takes one “right” guy to discover your profile and deem you his perfect match.
I am part of the I find Match.com frustrating for someone my age, club. I am sixty one. I don’t look like I am in my sixties nor does my energy and mindset fit for that age group. I always have photos that are current. I just joined match again about 2 weeks ago and within that time I have been winked at 40 times, 6 of those from real people, I think, and the 36 from men who disappear in 3 days. I have received at least 10 emails from men saying contact me at blablabla.yahoo and they also disappear. I am pretty sure they are “fishing”.
Like the writer, I have emailed a number of men who don’t email back. Match has made it very easy to say “no thank you” and that doesn’t even happen. I also find them men are looking for women 10-15 or more years younger. I find it interesting that a lot of these men have pictures of themselves that are younger, some even post photos from High School.
I have tried the “what do I have to offer” approach and that didn’t stimulate interest either. I have a lot to offer by the way in terms of what I bring to a relationship.
I tried an experiment once and lowered my age to see what would happen and I did have more men viewing my profile and connected with a man who joined me for lunch. When he found out I had “lied” about my age he was furious! He didn’t care that I didn’t look my age, but was more focused on the fact that I was “untruthful” in his eyes.
I concur that I am at a disadvantage because of my age when it comes to online dating. It is as though once you reach 60 your in a category that no one explores unless they are well over 70 or a fake profile.
i agree completely! Been there, done that. Older mean just need to understand that younger women want whats in their wallet, older women want whats in their pants (so to speak) Sorry if you find that crude, but it’s true. We aren’t dried up old prunes. Many of us take very good care of the body we have. I found that almost all of the men on Match.com are “players” and serial daters. I am so over it. Sad lesson learned.
Debby, you are talking rot as far as I’m concerned. I’m 62 and let me tell you, I’ve had “nights” with women 20-30 years younger and they don’t even ask what I do for a job. Sure the long term prospects are not good with a much younger woman. But in my experience a lot of much younger women go for me. They say I’m a silver fox and handsome lol – Sorry, but as much as you’d like to believe it’s all about a cynical money grab, I have to tell you we older men, like some older women attract the opposite sex. Sadly, many people don’t attract the opposite sex. nature is cruel.
What can be frustrating is – Men die five years earlier than women and if the man was/are a smoker ten years earlier. Why would we want to marry someone that is sexually inactive or will leave us a widow for twenty years? What makes the most sense is for women to marry a man five years younger so that they die approximately the same time. It is pretty selfish to marry someone much younger and leave them a widow(er) for decades.
Listen to Debby: she knows….she has it exactly right in all aspects. I would never pay a dating site again. It’s an extreme rarity to actually meet a decent and genuine man on one.
I have the same observation. Andrew. For awhile I was amazed at women’s profiles with their shopping list of demands (“don’t contact me if…you must be blah blah blah….””with no statement of what they have to offer. Certainly a man can gather much about a woman from reading her profile, and women are often so inundated with replies from poor matches that they become exasperated and begin to set boundaries; yet for me this language implies an attitude of entitlement and self-absorption, and suggests perhaps an assumption that she is the more desired one in the deal. Perhaps women are used to being pursued. A more thoughtful mature woman will realize that relationships aren’t just about her and her needs. Clearly men can often behave the same way, just wanting sex. I believe the deeper truth is that most people just blunder unconsciously into relationships, compelled by their poorly understood desires, knowing neither themselves or what they want from a relationship.
Its difficult to list what we have to offer without coming across as being arrogant or bragging. A well written profile should demonstrate those things without being obvious. I don’t have a laundry list of requirements, other than being a non-smoker and a few other things. If you don’t have a photo, forget it. If other requirements aren’t there, I just don’t respond. And men should still be the pursuers.
Katelyn–Any man who tries in the first email to rush you off a dating website to communicate privately by text and yahoo email is a scammer who knows his profile is likely to be deleted shortly. They often target older women (note the suspiciously wide requested age ranges) because they figure we’re more desperate and have more money. Don’t even waste your time trying to communicate with those. Flag and move on.
I tried Match.com four years ago. I was 58. I’m a SWM, never married, retired early, and hoped to start dating. It was a huge waste of time. In an 8 month period I had 1400 women view me, I contacted 40, ten replied, and NONE would even meet for coffee. How many of these women get dating offers at this age anyway?
Online dating is overrated. Don’t depend on it too much. Women 50 plus complain a lot about men their age rejecting them. My experience was –they reject men their age very fast. I live in Houston, and the dating pool is pretty bad in general at every age. I will turn 62 soon, and I’ve concluded my dating days are finally over. I’m not looking for marriage, and most women my age are divorced or widowed. They usually have adult children also. It would be tough for me to blend easily into their lives. I’ve aged out of the dating market in America. Time to go overseas.
Quitter gives dating advice, concludes “American women” are fatally flawed, vows to go for mail-order brides. Tell us more!
Mr. Katz I don’t know why you’re calling me a quitter. I’m not giving dating advice. I’m reporting my experiences. Even when I was younger, 20–30s, I found dating very hard. I’m not looking for mail order brides. My brother married a girl from Thailand. They have two kids, she became a nurse here, and they’ve been married 15 years. He was over 40 when he married. I handled many divorce cases as a paralegal. Marriage is very risky in America today for men. Be careful of your judgment of others. You don’t know everything.
You are right. Good luck with your choices.
Overseas is not the answer. Just watch that overseas tv show and see the hideous problem with culture, duping, trickery,finance, etc. You can do it herein your neighborhood if you target what you like to do and do it, be friendly with who is there. Go to a church or class even though that sounds hokey; or go up to someone in the grocery store and ask a dumb question. Smile at everyone. Online is not the end all be all solution. Put in the time and action. Overseas sound like desperation to me and also possibly “settling”.
I am the perfect person to weigh in as 1) I am 59 and 2) I just spent 3 years dating online, on all the major sites. Dated primarily younger men, and sometimes much younger men (17, 22 years!), men from all over the US, every race except Asian, nearly every social class even. Like Misha, I noticed VERY few men had broad age ranges: Most stopped at dating anyone more than 2 years older.
And like Kathleen says (“What’s interesting is that younger guys ( early 40s) vs those my own age seem more interested.”) is true. I asked one why he was willing to pursue me and he said all the good women were married by their early 40s so his “pool” was limited. The problem with the 40+ guys is they will never commit to you, or very seldom (if you are older).
The funny thing is both me and my current bf ONLY dated younger for the most part when online dating. He said it was vanity on his part and I told him I did it ’cause I could (get away with it). But as I’ve stated numerous times on this blog, I also was only able to date younger (my usual preference except for my current same-age bf) cause I lied about my age. Shaved off quite a few years too girls! lol I was born in 1953, but would put 1960 or 1961 on my profile. What helped is I have a killer figure (thin, but curves, 36D) and pretty face thanks to years of intermittant plastic surgery (but nothing below the waist til recently (coolsculpting which I recommend). My plastic surgeon’s nurse says I project youthfulness and look, on a good day, in my 40s still. So, I’ve had a clear advantage. I guess I’m one of the lucky ones, but I think it’s a combo of my personality, a kind of “God glow”/spirituality and looks. Men have always been attracted to me in person. Big time. Sometimes it was flattering and sometimes a problem frankly.
But I am NOT botoxed to death. Everything done with a very subtle hand and keep some “character” wrinkles on my forehand and lower face so as to look REAL. Just no sag, and filler only where I need it (Restylane!) girls…. I am also not obsessed with my appearance, just have the time, money and desire to tweak things when I can, but only every 3-4 years on average. Most of my health is due to the fact I’ve a good diet heavy on fruit and salds, have worn sunscreen since age 25 and been an athlete all my life. Tennis will give you a very firm bosom also I’ve found. Think of the serving action, but I digress.
Like Andrew proposes I also had a profile that clearly showcased my caring, intuitive, sweet side. My good nature, etc. I only threw in a few caveats about players and Bible thumpers (no to both). Otherwise it was almost sugary, my profile. But I also wasn’t shy about broadcasting the fact I was very educated and sophisticated and loved men who were similar. Didn’t make it a requirement though- just said “it would be nice if you were into ideas like me” Or words to that effect.
No, you just have to LIE, pure and simple. ‘Cause men are clueless, hypocritical girls…..They live in some fantasy world of their own making which advertising/Hollywood only exacerbates. Look at all the sitcoms which feature the smart, attractive wife but clueless, average-looking hubby. Uh, they married why?
But to return to this thread….On the third date I would usually disclose my age, but there were at least 2-3 men who only knew at the three-month mark or never really were told my true age ’cause I found them too status conscious.
I’ve decided if my bf and I break up (God FORBID as I am very in love with him) I won’t return to online dating but will give celibacy a shot. Dating after, say, 58 or 59 is NOT worth the effort imo. Maybe ’cause finally you are stuck with all these bitter, old, paranoid, hypocritical boomer men. I don’t know…. Am ok with my solitude now. Crave it actually (bf and I have a long distance relationship but only 72 miles). We are only apart about 4 nights before reunited though. And plan to live together at some point in the future. So my dating experience can be best summed up by the old standard “Just in Time”. Listen to the Streisand version circa 1965.
Youre awesome!
Ellen is so silly, ridiculous actually. There’s only a bit I agree with in her
comments. Yes older men are paranoid and bad tempered etc
but she tells lies about her age. What is the point? Nothing
worked for her before. That guy she has long distance with
will be having her on as they do and he probably
isn’t even long distance, but keeping his distance ( a lot do that
they did to my sister). It wont last. She’s in love with a conman, probably a salesman or someone who travels with work and goes back to the
wife/girlfriend.
Also if you need plastic surgery you are not a natural beauty. I am
in my 60s and young people say I am nice looking however I am
married and was reading this for my sister. She will say pffffttt
same as me reading that comment. I think Ellen is going to be
very disappointed and celibacy as she says will be her reward.
My sister is older than me and hasn’t lied about her age and God
will reward her with a nice man as He has already with so much in her life.
Why does everybody say they look “younger” and have a “younger” mindset than their age? Maybe we should all be proud of being who we are at whatever age we are. Saying you are so much better than your stated age just shows the prejudice we all carry when it comes to age. I wonder if we will ever accept age as an asset instead of a liability. It would be so nice if we could write a profile saying we look our age. What is wrong with that?
There are many things wrong with that. First off, things get worse with age not better. You get sicker. You get grouchy/bitchy. You are let interested in doing things out doors. You become less fun. You become depressed. You become set in your ways. You look less attractive as you get older. Fall of man.. sin nature etc.. we degrade. Why would you not want to look younger. That’s an asset.
Oh Jordan S!
Wow – I don’t know where you have been but that list of negatives you claim goes along with aging is very erroneous and misguided. IF a person does their job of taking good care of themselves most of those unattractive elements can be avoided most of the time. I could spell it out further but I think you are intelligent enough to know it.
I have worked with seniors for the last seven years. I myself am in that ‘category’ and when I work with those who have neglected their health and well-being and are my age, I feel for them. And there are those who are older and do the work: exercise, eat well, stay active, have hobbies and a social life and basically are thriving – and that makes me happy to see.
Ageism is a bias that is reinforced by the whole range of media, cultural standards of beauty and attractiveness, and those who ‘buy’ into it.
With age comes a rich breadth of experience and wisdom and often a better grasp on what’s really important in life and in relationships. Perspective!
But hey – those men who want younger women so they can feel young themselves or as arm candy don’t know what they are missing! What we bring to the table is worth looking beyond the numbers.
great post Sheila. I am 53 and look about 45…really. I took great care of myself. Im a little overweight but I have tremendous energy, flexibility and grace. I take great care of myself. Men find me attractive. But I also understand these women’s frustrations.
Women get depressed because, in our culture, once our eggs are passed their “sell-by” date, we become invisible.
On the men’s defense, our culture is brutal on older men. They see them as past it, crotchety, fixed, unable to change. The image of the older man in our culture.
It also has to do with man’s emotional health and maturity. Ive met American men who are mature responsible and are comfortable enough in their skin that dating a woman their own age is preferrable. They dont have to convince themselves and others that they still “have it”. They also see women their age as vibrant and sexy and much more fun to be with.
I feel sorry for men who look at age as the only deciding factor. To me it shows they are not happy with where they are in their life.
Reply to GADS about feeling invisible:
If you can wear something spandexy on the jogging trail, or you still wear a sundress, you’re not invisible to a 53-year-old guy. (If you can’t do that, that’s not directly age, is it?) If you choose to not scowl into the webcam for your okcupid profile pic – which a lot of women do! – you’ll be noticed.
Noticed by George Cloony? I think you need some sort of intricate plan then.
@SJZ yep everyone says that even if they are unfortunate in all respects ha.
A rare few are. A lot of creepy old men say that. I check a dating site
for my relative and the older men look anything up to 20 years older
than they are stating.
Love the post by Ellen !!!!!
You can see her positive personality and confidence shine through. With that encouragement I shall continue to alter my age and for as long as Im on match shall be eternally 48 !!!
Your letter rang all my bells!
Yes, the prospects are fewer when you get to your mid-fifties and sixties and it can seem impossible looking at so many prospects in your age range who by an overwhelming majority say they are seeking someone 15-20 plus years younger.
And you know what? I wasn’t ready for the 15-20 years older than me man when I was 35 and certainly not at 57. And although there are more younger women who seem to think that’s what they want, it rarely evolves into a life commitment. And often when it does, it either isn’t what they hoped for and doesn’t bear the fruits of happiness.
I knew what I wanted in companionship and sexuality and simply communicated that as honestly as I could. My fiance and I are the same age and share a similar life path of former long term unhappy marriage, children and grandchildren, values and experience of growing up and traveling through the same decades.
We are both in great shape for our age. He can’t believe he “ended up” with a woman my age…his age. He shopped for younger women because his perception of women his age from his former married circle, was that women in their 50’s were not interested in sex, didn’t maintain themselves, weren’t any fun, weren’t adventurous, etc. I.E. – would be like his former wife.
I can’t really blame him. That did describe an overwhelming majority of the middle aged, suburban women I had hung out with for the twenty plus years I was in the PTA and raising kids. But when my husband left me high and dry I had to recreate myself and make an effort to be fitter, and actually assume an active view of myself as a woman that wants to be attractive for myself and others.
Unfortunately, this really is an exception. I don’t know how to be more honest. Too many women in long term marriages or relationships for that matter, get too comfortable and stop looking at themselves or even they spouse as a person they need to make an effort to maintain. So many men that actually divorce in “middle age” are looking for a younger version – I can’t really blame them.
I divorced a man that over years stopped making an effort in our relationship and pretty much parked me with the kids, chores, duties, etc. even though I worked full time and maintained varied interests and hobbies. We forgot that it all started with “coupledom.” And paid the consequences.
Its been a bit of a bumpy ride in feeling that I had to compete with women younger who may place less demands on the man in their life because regardless of fitness, I can’t achieve the body and skin I had twenty years ago. I could o0nly be the best me I could be. But I have learned that being the best me not only worked with my fiance, but also on younger or older men.
I am happy knowing how hard I worked on the inner and outer me. And that is what ultimately attracts people to you. My fiance is always saying how he is fascinated how much women adore me and his male friends lust for me. Its a very gracious compliment, but I think it means that I learned to love myself, accept my shortcomings and graces, and appreciate every one for who they are without pretext.
You sound like a terrific woman, just keep on doing what you are doing. Your positive attributes will attract someone that will celebrate who you are and feel like the luckiest man on earth!
To Ellen in #8… wow.
Most of us don’t have the means to do plastic surgery. I have an even harder time coming up w/ cashola to kill some spider veins. The fact that you are and were probably more attractive than the “regular butterflies” and managed to keep your figure etc doesn’t bode well for anyone who has actually aged, has some mileage, and can’t afford a new paint job.
It’s rather tragic that a large portion of society paints “older” women into this corner. I don’t know, eating healthy being a healthy weight (ie, not fat, not obese, not morbidly obese) project vim/vigor ie youth are something most of us can do but it’s a LOT of work.
It does make me wonder if the premise of The Beauty Myth is true, as women gain societal power there is more/extreme pressure to be flawless, beautiful eye candy and that is a women’s only worth to a large segment of clueless, not bringing it themselves to the table men. hmmmm.
Then again… maybe since you are vested in your appearance… you may attracting what you are projecting. Seems you’ve had a great ride so I’m not criticizing.
PS i will totally get a neck lift one day and hopefully it will take my boobs with it. 😉
Nothing I hate worse is a fake plastic women, they make me sick to my stomach.
The rudeness is unnecessary. You are prolonging a bad image for your gender. Anonymity is no reason to be mean.
I can understand that Johnboy. It looks horrible and eventually
would slip and a woman would have to fork out more and look
like a monster.
wonderful Suzanne! just wonderful! Congrats on your new life!
what you don’t know can’t hurt you…
a huge number of celebrities had at least some work done
lol
Hilarious comment Misha.
i think you are very invightful about women gaining power.
as women gain power, men lose power of them. So they seek women they feel comfortable with. A younger woman doesnt intimidate them and they think it makes them look and feel younger and more valuable. Sad
I feel bad for most men. Society is just as brutal on them as it is on us.
we spend so much time pointing fingers at each other, we dont see that all these expectations we put on a potential mate is just a deflection of our own unhappiness of ourselves or our lives.
Only solution? Stop all the nonsense. BOTH SEXES. Stop listening to society’s nasty critical voice which preys on our insecurities. Give it the finger and enjoy each other with all your imperfections. We should be older and wiser now. At this stage we cant afford the time for games or giving our power to someone else.
Were too busy running the world and fixing it.
“I feel bad for most men. Society is as brutal on them as it is on us.”
GADS,
Thanks for having a little empathy for us guys; I’ve found that a commodity in short supply on this blog. Witness the following:
from Ellen: “..stuck with all these bitter, old, paranoid, hypocritical boomer men.”
There’s plenty more here, as I discovered when I first came here over two years ago; in fact, compared to some of what I read about my generation of men (baby boomers) here, that one is absolutely mild and benign. I’ve read far more hateful invective on this blog, couched in rhetoric calculated to be as offensive, inflammatory, hurtful, degrading and emasculating as possible, aimed at ALL (a frequent assertion) men in my age group. The authors of this kettle of hater-aide? Just the young thirty and forty-something women fed up with the advances of “creepy old men”? Nope; the women of my own generation, for the most part, occasionally egged on by young men like Nathan, who seems to think his generation invented concepts like introspection, self-awareness, and personal growth, along with pretty much everything else (see his self-serving, patronizing little discourse on “old Boomer men” below). Note how he follows up with this little gem, “The age and photo driven nature of online dating makes it harder for Boomer women to shine, regardless of what they do.” Of course, the unspoken assertion is that Boomer men have no such difficulty, and if they do, they deserve it. I beg to differ. The ones of us who will actually date women in our own age group, are automatically rejected online (without even a profile view) by most of the same women, who now feel entitled to men from 15 years younger to no more than 2 years older than themselves (or so say their online profiles). Let a man express interest in any woman younger than himself, and he’s immediately labeled a creep, a pervert and a dirty old man; yet women like Ellen come here, can’t resist bragging about dating men “17 to 22 years younger than me” and the chorus of applause from the distaff side is deafening. Pot, meet kettle!
So I do find your attitude refreshing, along with your idea that maybe us older men and women might show a little more consideration and a little less hate for one another; here, on dating sites, and in real life as well. In your words: “Stop all the nonsense. BOTH SEXES.Stop listening to society’s nasty, critical voice which preys on our insecurities.” I’ll gladly co-sign on that one!
I dont blame anybody. These women have been hurt by men who are very much in pain themselves.
I don’t think anyone is too old for online dating as such. In my late thirties I am having many of the issues that people in their 50s are complaining about when it comes to men my age. However, the younger women I have been speaking to don’t seem to be finding it too easy to find a partner that way either. The conclusion I have come to is that finding a partner is hard work, whatever age you are, and you have to be prepared for a lot of disappointment along the way.
Not a good idea to lie about your age in your profile. I never answer an email or write to / favorite anyone if they say in their profile that they’ve changed their age to get more attention.
I think the comment I made above is the first time I have commented on Evan’s blog. My son is a regular participant in this blog and suggested I come on and comment on this post because he and I often have conversations about online dating and dating in general, and he thought I might be able to add to the conversation.
I believe in being authentic and that is the kind of man I am looking for, so I am honest in my profile. I am not going to say I look my age when I don’t nor do I want to have to lie about my age to have someone connect to me. If I can’t attract men on line by being myself, I don’t think online dating is for me.
I wonder what Evan thinks about people shaving a number of years off their age?
Well being that this discussion is close to my age range. I will admit that at 51 even I still put my age as 3 yrs younger on Match(as I have for years) So I’m “48” and look it…what ever THAT means. It means when you get to be OUR age what your drivers license says is meaningless. You look as old as people “think” you look. Meaning you could be 53 and look 45 and vice versa. Yes, women in their mid 40’s don’t like men over 50 either…lol go figure. Never the less………my age range for women in my profile says 43-54 and for the most part those ARE the women I email and meet. I think I get rejected equally by both older and younger women. I did meet a 53 yr.old woman last week that looked quite a bit older and more “gaunt” than her 7 current profile pics and that was that. I met a 40 yr old woman who wasn’t as attractive as some 48 yr olds I’ve met etc….. Like I told a date last night. Men in our age range don’t care so much how old you actually ARE as much as how old you actually LOOK. So if you actually do look younger than you are (and I know some that DO!) than shaving 2-4 yrs off isn’t a big deal but trying 7-10 is ridiculous…..lol
Internet profiles are incomplete skeletons of a person that emphasize quantification over qualification. And such an illusion of infinite choice. Yet once over the age of 25 all these people (us) are the detritus who could not form relationships or failed to make them work. Beware, the more attractive the profile, the greater the derangement for even the best have been cast away.
When I was about 28 – 35 I wouldn’t have looked at a guy over 45 – it would have been like going out with my father … And over 60, I wouldn’t even consider them … grandad material and they are really creepy! Ewwww!
Let these deluded guys keep trying to date young girls, mostly it won’t work unless a girl is looking for a daddy substitute, gold digging or whatever other reason she has. It’s their problem not yours.
I see so many men’s profiles on online dating sites who state ‘I look much younger than my age’ only to finally meet them and guess what … no they don’t.
It’s not easy to find a great partner at any age and you do have to keep trying, dont give up althought it can be very tiring and at times demoralising.
I have recently joined a social group and I’m going to sign up for some courses at college that interest me. The social group is great and I get to go out and do things with like minded people who just want to live their lives and get out and do some fun things.
Instead of trying to chase eternal youth and unavailable men/women online, it’s much more satisfying and empowering to be yourself and engage in doing things that really interest you and give you satisfaction.
Make online dating a part of your life and be more selective about who you contact or who contacts you. That ordinary looking man/woman online may just be a great person when you meet them. I tend to avoid the profile pictures of the show ponies these days, after meeting some of them for a coffee, I have walked away trying not to laugh on my way out. Talk about overestimating their so called attractiveness!
Just be yourself, crinkles, wrinkles, crows feet and all. Good looks may catch the eye but if that’s all you’ve got, you don’t have much.
spot on comment Paula
Yup!
Don’t give up and I would personally not lie about my age. I met my partner on match.com and am very happy. I just turned 57 and he will turn 55 soon. It is true that there are men I corresponded with who looked like Santa Claus to me but wanted to continue to date much younger women. However, I found a number of quality men who wanted to date women their age. One of the problems I saw is that the men are overwhelmed by their number of daily matches (18 per day) vs my typical number (6). If I found someone of interest, I read their profile carefully and e-mailed them a short complimentary note and asked them a question or two. In this way, I was able to catch their attention. Many ignored me but quite a few responded and after a few e-mails we would often meet for coffee or drinks. Another problem is that many men don’t know how to present themselves well. Two of the most generous / interesting men I dated posted only one photo – and not a good one at that! I am sure many women overlooked them for that reason but they wrote well and I decided to e-mail them anyway. I love match.com because I never would have crossed paths with any of these men. I wish everyone well in their search.
Katelyn, the commenter above, is my mother. She has been doing online dating for at least as long as I have, probably longer. Which means a good decade now. I’ve seen her try everything under the sun with paid sites, and a few free sites I introduced her to with no success. Furthermore, she’s spent much of her adult life doing the kind of self growth work that tends to attract a healthy partner. And I know she’s not alone. I have met many Boomer women like her, with similar mixed or very poor experiences with online dating.
I tend to think that Boomer women are at a greater disadvantage than the rest of us for this reason: the majority of Boomer men are still living in the past. By that, I mean that while Boomer women spurred on the social changes of the 1960s and 70s, and have generally tried to live more well rounded lives since, Boomer men are often content to finish out their work lives and then sit in front of a TV, mow the lawn, or hang with their golf buddies on the course until their days are up. I can’t tell you how many hundreds or even thousands of Boomer men profiles I’ve looked at with my mother and two other Boomer friends of mine over the years read like this. Beyond those men, there are another set who are more active and interesting, but who treat dating and relationships today the same way they did 30 or 40 years ago. And I’m not talking about being “traditional” in the way some women on this blog like; I’m talking about being emotionally clueless, patronizing to their dates solely because they are women, and thinking things like giving a swat on the ass on a first date are still acceptable and even welcomed.
I don’t think online dating is a hopeless affair for anyone, but I do think that we need to be more honest about real barriers that different groups face. If Evan’s business targeted older, successful men (read Boomers and early Gen X guys), I doubt he’d be in business at all. Not because they don’t need help – many of them desperately could use some pointers. They just aren’t interested. They’re generally operating under the notion that they know what to do, and failures are pinned on women who “want too much” or “don’t get them.” PUA and Game, which seems to be the most popular form of dating advice for men, tends to attract a Gen X and under crowd. Somehow, I doubt you’d find a ton of 50 and 60 something men sitting behind a Neil Strauss book, or trolling a PUA discussion board. I have plenty of reservations about PUA and Game, but the fact that younger men are seeking advice shows that they realize they need to take a good look at themselves, and do something different. Boomer men aren’t as likely to display this kind of self reflection because they grew up in a world that didn’t expect it, and in fact often discouraged it and so those Boomer men who do have it either went against the grain, or suffered for decades before finally waking up at 55 or 60 – usually following some major health episode.
So, I think the options for many Boomer women are just fewer. The suggestion by a commenter above to try Senior dating sites might be useful, but in general, I think the age and photo driven nature of online dating makes it harder for Boomer women to shine – regardless of what they do. Whatever Sara chooses to do, my only advice is to not take the online world’s response personally. None of us should, but I think it’s especially true for Boomer women, given the hurdles they face.
VERY well stated . . .and right on the mark! Thank you!