Online Dating is the Worst. What Should I Do?

 

I am so discouraged by online dating. Seems after 1-2 exchanges, men get vulgar and aggressively sexual. If you retreat, they call you uptight and dump you. I don’t think it’s anything I’m doing or saying. I’m left feeling drenched in ick.

Jessica

Aw, Jessica, I hear you.

My first book was about online dating.

My first company was an online dating profile writing site.

My first audio program was a comprehensive how-to-guide to meet better men online.

My first TED talk was about online dating.

To say I have thoughts about online dating would be the understatement of the year.

Every day, I listen to women complain about the realities of 21st century dating – and their complaints are 100% valid.

Online dating was ALREADY shallow when I was doing it from 1997-2007.

Then Tinder, Bumble, Hinge and CoffeeMeetsBagel happened and the only vestiges of depth – longer profiles and longer email exchanges – were removed, leaving a fast, frictionless medium where everyone is judged on looks and everyone is disposable.

Contrast that to a time when men went out to a party and spent the entire night trying to procure one woman’s phone number written on a napkin, and yeah, we’re in a different time right now. One where everyone is overscheduled, texting ten people, and looking for any reason to dismiss the next stranger.

You are mistaken if you draw the conclusion that online dating is a pure waste of time.

It’s not just icky men either, although they are disturbingly prevalent. I have friends who are so fed up with flaky women from dating apps – women who bail in the middle of a text exchange, women who cancel plans at the last minute without explanation, women who are so busy as to be virtually unbookable.

These men, too, are at wit’s end (without the dick pics).

So while you’re not wrong that the entire endeavor can feel pretty demoralizing, you are mistaken if you draw the conclusion that online dating is a pure waste of time.

It’s not. And it’s not even debatable.

Every new client who tells me she hates online dating, gets offered a proposition.

I don’t care about online dating,” I say, her ears perking up. “I’m a dating coach. All I care is that when we talk on the phone every other week, you’re going to have stuff going on. So, if you can guarantee me that you’re going to have at least one date every single week for us to talk about, you can completely skip online dating.

I’ve never had anyone take me up on my offer.

Unless you’re 25, attractive and in a very social, population dense place, online dating is a mandatory supplement for “real life.”

Put another way: if you go on one date a month without online dating, you have 12 chances of finding love each year. If you go on one date a week doing it my way, you have 52 chances of finding love each year. It should seem obvious that online dating is a presence that should be readily maintained, just like a gym membership or a yoga practice.

But what about how much it SUCKS?

Yeah, I know. But that’s what I’m here for. I’m not going to change men, Tinder, your location, or anything that’s beyond my control. But I can help you write a killer online dating profile that attracts higher quality men. I can teach you how to flirt with men on and offline. I can illustrate how to schedule your time so that you control online dating instead of it controlling you. I can show you a method to lead guys from the dating site to a first date without getting stuck in endless texts. I can show you how to differentiate yourself from all the other women he’s talking to and make him choose YOU.

Alas, I can’t do it if you give up.

So if you want to find love, you don’t meet enough guys in real life, and want to do something different to get different results, please click here.

And if you want me to teach you this personally, please click here.

You don’t have to suffer. You just have to conquer what’s currently dragging you down.

Some women do it. Why not you?

Join our conversation (76 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 1
    Clare

    Yep, online dating is here to stay. If I think about my single friends, all of them are on Tinder or Bumble or met the person they are with on Tinder or Bumble. In fact, most of my friends who got married recently met on a dating app. This in itself is encouraging.

    I met the guy I am dating now on Tinder.

    But online dating can be very draining. The sheer volume of people is overwhelming. I’ve never been sent a dick pic or had a guy try to start an inappropriate sexual conversation with me, but the way people over-text, or drift in and out of contact, or flake, is very disheartening. And for me, those aren’t even the biggest problems with it. For me, it’s the endless mediocre dates. You set up a date with a guy, and you allow yourself to get excited… and then you meet him and there’s just no spark. That has hands-down been my biggest downside with online dating… the dates with pleasant but boring guys. They are complete gentlemen and get the bill and follow up to see you again, but spend all night talking about the triathlon they’re training for, or their new tech start-up company, or the latest sci-fi series that they’re obsessed with.

    I used to really battle to turn such guys down when they wanted to see me again after a mediocre first date, but these days I do, and I do it as quickly and painlessly as I can. No chemistry = no second date. If there is some chemistry, however, I’ll go out with them again.

    Anyway, that was just me going off on a tangent about my own personal gripe with online dating. I’m still extremely grateful for it. Whatever its downsides, they are manageable, and it still offers you unprecedented access to people you would likely never have met otherwise. And every now and again, you meet someone amazing. Obviously I have no way of knowing whether the guy I’m dating now will work out, but when I met him, he blew me away. From the first moment he looked at me and uttered the first sentence I thought “I’m in trouble.”

    It’s wonderful to have that experience to contrast with all the ho-hum ones! 😀

    1. 1.1
      Sabrina

      hey! How long have you been inline dating for? Totally agree with what youre sating. I find that there are LOTS of guys looking for relationships and are good guys… but such little chemistry!! And i know it shouldnt be the main focus, but god.. it def needs to be there!! Glad to hear you met someone interesting. Him long have you been dating him for ?

  2. 2
    SparklingEmerald

    Hi Jessica – I don’t know how old you are, but once you are out of college, the opportunities to congregate with large groups of available people dwindles, and online dating is an effective way to meet more people than you would otherwise meet.

    Clare did an excellent job of describing the frustrations of online dating above.   I experienced all of the above frustrations,  with online dating, until . . . I met my husband.  That was almost 4 years ago, and we have been married now for a little over a year and a half.  He may not be perfect, but he’s a perfect match for me.

    My first mistake was attempting to online date when I was separated, but not legally divorced.  The very few men who contacted me with my status as “separated” were mostly players.  Once I could honestly change my status to “divorced”, I got more responses, but the quality wasn’t quite there.  I bought one of Evan’s book and improved my profile using his techniques.  BOY !  did that make a difference.  The QUALITY of men contacting me greatly improved after I re-vamped my vanilla profile. Many men complimented my profile as “the best ” they had seen.   Almost one year to the day after my divorce became legally official, I went on a “coffee date” that morphed into an all day date, that included a walk, wine and appetizers and a movie.  About 2 years later we got married, and I couldn’t be happier.   I was actually only active in online dating for 6 months of that year after my divorce.  (I took a long “guy-a-tus” from match when I reported a string of rapey,  sexually aggressive e-mails, and the same guy was still in their data base a month after I reported him)  So I would say that using Evan’s profile tips, I found my dream boat after 6 months.  And I was in my late 50’s !

    I know several couples who met online.  Hang in there. The frustrating flakers,  “beige dates”,  awkward dates,  the occasional horn dog, the let downs and the rejection are all worth it, when you finally meet the one.

     

     

     

    1. 2.1
      Henriette

      @SE: always a joy when I (rarely) check in here only to discover a comment from you. I remember when you felt like Faded Jade, and it’s heartening to read of your happy, post-wedding life.  Please keep visiting this site and reminding us of your journey; many of us can really use the encouragement.  ox

    2. 2.2
      Clare

      SE,

      I too remember your posts from a few years ago, and it’s so wonderful to read about how things fell into place for you. Really refreshing and encouraging.

      Your story embodies pretty much exactly what I was trying to say: it all doesn’t seem worth it, until the day it is.

      My best friend from about 5 or 6 years ago was one of the most despondent people about her love life that I had ever met. She was a couple years older than me, so mid-30s, and never been married. She was a great catch – pretty, great body, together and down-to-earth, funny and lots of fun, independent. Everyone who met her loved her. And she had partied and dated like crazy. Slept with over 50 guys, had dates, relationships, and a string of jerks and unrequited love experiences under her belt. She was so depressed about it all and ready to give up.

      And then, she met Kevin on Zoosk, and her whole world changed overnight. They are married now and have just had a baby.

      It only takes one great person to make it all worthwhile 🙂

    3. 2.3
      SparklingEmerald

      Awwww, thanks Henriette and Clare.  Sometimes I think I should stop posting here, since I am no longer dating, but then I read posts like these and  . . .

      Clare, you are right, online dating sucks, until . . . it doesn’t !

  3. 3
    Kath

    It’s also luck and timing. I’ve known couples who met and married within months of meeting online. And I know others who have been online off and on for several years. Watch EMK’s TEDTalk, No More Bad Dates; lots of great insights regarding online dating.

    Online or offline, you tend to attract who/what you are. Doing any necessary inner work first is key, so you don’t keep attracting or even settling for the same person who isn’t right for you, over and over again.

  4. 4
    Yet Another Guy

    My problem with online dating is that people tend to become more selective over time.  I know that I have become significantly more selective with time.  It is kind of like a disease that requires one to step away from online dating for a period of time in order to get a grip on reality.  I started out dating women that I would not consider dating today. However, with practice and a little fine tuning of my profile, the quality my dates progressively increased.  That is when bigger, better deal syndrome (BBDS) entered the equation.   When a man is suffering form BBDS, no woman is going to be good enough to make the cut, at least not for long.

    1. 4.1
      Yet Another Guy

      *from BBDS

  5. 5
    Seth

    As a guy with online dating, I have pretty much given up on those sites/apps.
    The women can be just as bad or rude.  And I always try and message women respectfully and I never send dick or half naked pictures.  I actually want to get to know the person.
    But they won’t respond or they won’t follow up.  Was talking with one woman and we had a good conversation, and I said I would like to meet up if she would and she said yes she would.  So I said ok, let me know what your schedule looks like and we can set something up.
    She responded with “I will”
    Never heard from her again.

    1. 5.1
      Marika

      Seth

      I sympathise, that stuff happens a lot in online dating. It’s not personal, she probably just met up with another guy she’d been messaging, or things progressed further and she got distracted. Or who knows? She could have gotten sick or had some other personal issue arise.

      Evan’s finding the one online gives great tips for first messages, usernames etc, all of which help you stand out in your profile. But people disappearing or being indirect is pretty common online.

    2. 5.2
      Clare

      Seth, I sympathise. I’ve had those experiences. Plenty of them.

      I’m not going to tell you what to do or that you’re wrong for wanting to give up on online dating, but I think the fact that everyone has these sorts of experiences with online dating should be encouraging, not discouraging. It means it’s very likely not personal.

      It’s a very good idea to grow a thick skin in online dating. I say that as a gentle, sensitive, polite type, but I have just learned to be very thick-skinned in online dating. That’s not to say that there won’t be disappointments; but you just don’t take them personally. I heard something very useful which really helped me put this in perspective: In the very early stages of dating, like before you’ve met or when you’ve gone on one or two dates, you can’t take people’s flakiness personally or let it upset you. This person doesn’t know you yet, doesn’t know your amazing qualities or how happy you could potentially make them. So essentially, they’re not rejecting you; most likely they are just making a practical decision based on what’s best for them at that moment. Honestly, in the beginning stages when we are just texting, I have trained myself to put them out of my mind the moment I send my text and until I hear from them again.

      It’s best not to get too emotionally invested in the first 3 months of dating anyway. Easier said than done, I know, but if you can possibly keep your feelings and expectations in check in the beginning, it will serve you well. In the beginning, I honestly just like to think of it as fun and a way to meet people, and if things don’t pan out, there are plenty more fish in the sea.

      I have also just started to force myself to take things slower. Let the person unfold over time. I feel like this is the best way to build a connection and protect yourself.

      Either way, I’m sorry you’re feeling despondent about online dating, but remember: you’re not alone. And people are getting married to people they met online all the time.

      1. 5.2.1
        Seth

        @Clare and @Marika

        Thank you both for the input.  I may eventually come back to the apps and try again but for now, I don’t much care.
        I kinda want my next time being where I talk and meet someone in person and see if I can do anything there.
        Doing something like that would really take me out of my comfort zone and would make me face my fear of rejection.
        I think that is one big reason I don’t do it…..is my fear of rejection.  I absolutely hate it.
        And I need to confront it because I honestly (and objectively) do think I bring a good package to the table (at this point in my life), I guess “High Value” is what they call it…..
        And I want to meet someone who is also “High Value” as well.
        Now I just need to get out and socialize more. LOL

    3. 5.3
      P is for _

      Hi Seth, I hope you will take this as constructive. But next time don’t be so passive and assume she will say yes. Next time say “how about we do this on this day at this time,” and even if she is busy she can offer another day/time. If she doesn’t then she wasn’t really interested.

      1. 5.3.1
        Seth

        Yeah I can give that a try….guess it can’t hurt.

  6. 6
    JDM

    There is a new research paper about online dating that says that people target others who are “Out of there league”, and 25% more attractive than themselves.

    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/8/eaap9815

    No new information here, Women’s desirability peaks at 18 and men’s at 50. Looks and youth for women and that money thing for men.

    I in my 50’s, a high earning professional, but short and have given up on online dating and dating in general. I live in Seattle, where there are 2 times more single men than women, according to this article in KOMO news. But if you are a single woman and want a man, Seattle is your city. But he will be a smart high earning guy, who won’t be the masculine bad boy that most women really want.

    https://komonews.com/news/local/online-dating-study-measures-whos-out-of-your-league-in-seattle

    1. 6.1
      ezamuzed

      I had no problems as a man dating in Seattle for the last 4 years. Although I am in my 4os and tall. Much of that time I was dating multiple woman at once in non committed sexual relationships.  Then I met a woman who I liked so much I only wanted her. She has been my girlfriend for about 6 months now.

      Many woman in Seattle complain that it is hard to date because there is a dearth of quality men.

    2. 6.2
      Alan

      If this is true, we would expect lots of 18 year old girls to be dating (or want to date) 50 year old men.  Since you are in your 50s, why aren’t all of the 18 year old ladies chasing you?  I think your statistic was developed by 50 year old pedos.

      The best explanation is that attractiveness in women does not peak at 18 (except for pedos on “To Catch a Predator”) and 50 for men (unless you have some great genes and fitness regimen).   In fact, the average age difference in marriage is only two years, and there is a growing number of older women who date younger men.  There is also, on average, a lot more younger men than younger women (birth rates of 106 males per 100 females).  There is an increase in women who chose to remain single.  There is also an increase in women who claim to be bisexual or lesbian who only date other women.  Thus the dating pool for men is smaller than they are led to believe.

      I suspect the dearth of women is the reason behind MRA and MGTOW movements.

      1. 6.2.1
        Scooter

        Why are you attacking JDM? He is clearly stating that women are NOT coming after him, in Seattle.

        Your rant concerning “pedo’s” is also unrelated.  Why are you bringing up that angle?

        And based on the tone of your post.. are you sure you spelled your name correctly? Should it be, “Alana”?

      2. 6.2.2
        Yet Another Guy

        @Alan

        In fact, the average age difference in marriage is only two years

        Actually, the average age gap is two to three years when people are in their 20s and increases up to seven years after age 40.  Additionally, the single male to single female ratio depends on demographic and location.  Where I live, single college-educated women between age 46 and age 64 outnumber single college-educated men in the same cohort by 2 to 1.  My experience on dating sites bears this one out.  I have zero difficulty obtaining dates on the dating sites.  The map on the page linked below gets redder with age.

        labs.time.com/story/see-the-ratio-of-single-men-to-women-where-you-live/

      3. 6.2.3
        Karl R

        Alan said:

        “There is also, on average, a lot more younger men than younger women (birth rates of 106 males per 100 females).”

        That’s at birth.  In the 20-24 age range, the ratio is 102 to 100.  In the 30-34 age range, the ratio is 99 to 100.  That’s according to the 2010 U.S. census.

         

        Alan said:

        “There is an increase in women who chose to remain single.  There is also an increase in women who claim to be bisexual or lesbian who only date other women.”

        Largely balanced out by the men who are gay or bisexual.  Last time I did some research into this, gay men outnumbered lesbians.  Bisexual women outnumbered bisexual men.  But wide variation in results led me to believe that the studies aren’t yet reliable.

         

        Alan said:

        “Thus the dating pool for men is smaller than they are led to believe.  I suspect the dearth of women is the reason behind MRA and MGTOW movements.”

        Based on the little bit of misogynistic crap of theirs that I was actually able to stomach reading, they seem to expect a ratio of several smoking-hot women to every one of them.  Not only is that ratio unlikely to happen, but their attitude makes them the last people on the planet most women would voluntarily date.

    3. 6.3
      AdaGrace

      The researchers weren’t assessing the *quality* of messages being sent, right?  🙂

       

      I’m a woman in Seattle, and weirdly, my profile has started getting a lot of contact from men in my preferred demographic (5’6”-5’11”, introverted but articulate, techie/scientist men within 4 years of my age) since I turned 50 six weeks ago.  The followthrough has been phenomenal, most of the phone calls and dates between good and awesome.  I wasn’t getting anywhere near this much attention at 49… or nearly as high-quality attention in my early 20s (East Coast), or 30s (California).  Seattle is indeed *weird.*

       

      And yeah, the gender ratio here sucks for men.  A much younger male colleague (alpha/relationship-oriented/intelligent/kind/fit/high EQ) who grew up near my own East Coast hometown is in the process of arranging to work remotely so he can take advantage of the gender ratio/less passive-aggressive culture in another location with a Seattle tech industry income.  I’m sad to see one of the precious few direct communicators I know leave town, but respect and admire him for taking action rather than complaining incessantly or giving up.

  7. 7
    Noone45

    Everyone complains about online dating and here we all are. It works fine for what I use it for – NSA encounter three times a year, free dinner once a month. (Don’t lecture me, I get tested 4 times a year make them wrap up). Seems to work fine for the normal people I know. Methinks some people just like to whine. If you want easy dating, go back to the arranged marriage system. I feel I’m worth at least nine cows.

    1. 7.1
      No Name To Give

      I’m here for the comments. Thank you for not disappointing me.

      1. 7.1.1
        Irrelevant

        Excellent. I am here for the comments of the comments!

  8. 8
    SparklingEmerald

    NOONE45 said “Everyone complains about online dating and here we all are. It works fine for what I use it for – NSA encounter three times a year, free dinner once a month.

    Any woman can get occasional NSA encounters and even free dinners, online or offline.    For women who want a substantial love partnership or marriage, dating online or offline CAN be frustrating.  This is a blog for women who want to fall in love, and here you are.

    If you don’t want to be lectured, perhaps you should not come to a blog for love/marriage oriented women, and lecture them.

    1. 8.1
      Noone45

      When did I complain about being lectured?

      1. 8.1.1
        SparklingEmerald

        I didn’t say you were “complaining” about being lectured, I told you not to lecture others if you don’t want to be lectured.

        That was in response the part of your lecture to us where you said in part, “Don’t lecture me”.

        And I would like to add, that I am sorry that you think so low of your looks.  I have no idea what you really look like, but I know of women who are AVERAGE looking (not ugly) who really think they are ugly.  Of course this belief puts a sour demeanor on their face which brings their looks down.  Maybe so many average women believe they are ugly, because the media is always showing us model looking women, and that level of beauty becomes our baseline of what is average, and average falls into the “ugly” category. Not sure if you are in the “average girl who thinks she’s ugly” category or not, but if so, I hope you can look in the mirror and find something to admire and raise your self esteem.  Not to find a romantic partner, but to feel better about yourself.

        1. Noone45

          “That was in response the part of your lecture to us where you said in part, “Don’t lecture me””

          It was an obvious reference to my line about casual sex. Nothing I said was a lecture. The last line about cows should have clued you into my statement being a joke about the centuries-old quest to find a mate.

          “And I would like to add, that I am sorry that you think so low of your looks. ”

          Let’s not BS each other.

  9. 9
    Shaukat

     NSA encounter three times a year, free dinner once a month.

    Lol, didn’t you describe yourself as heinously unattractive? (your words I believe). This just confirms what YAG and others are always saying here, virtually any woman can get easy sex with men above her in looks because of all the guys dating down on these apps.

    You’re right, I’m not sure why so many ladies complain about this medium, it’s the perfect time for them to “game” the system;)

    1. 9.1
      Emily, the original

      Shaukat,

      You’re right, I’m not sure why so many ladies complain about this medium, it’s the perfect time for them to “game” the system;)

      That’s the life of an emancipated woman. A free dinner and NSA sex always with the men of her dreams at least once a month. Damn, it feels good to be a gangster.

      1. 9.1.1
        shaukat

        @Emily,

        Lol, I was 75% trolling with the last part of my comment. However, I do think it’s telling that a self-proclaimed 2/10 woman who is also a single parent can jump on one of these online services and, at the very least, get a free dinner once a month.

        I can only imagine what would happen to her male counterpart (2/10) who might try venturing into those waters. He’d likely send out thousands of messages and then put a gun to his head.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @shaukat

          I can only imagine what would happen to her male counterpart (2/10) who might try venturing into those waters. He’d likely send out thousands of messages and then put a gun to his head.

          There is no such thing as a female incel.  Even the most unattractive woman can get laid by a more attractive man.   Granted, the guy will not commit.  However,  Noone45 stated that she was looking for NSA sex, so lack of commitment potential does not factor into the equation.  I personally no longer date down for NSA sex because I hate wearing a condom (I am vasectomy safe on the reproduction side).  I would rather set the table for one.  🙂

        2. Emily, the original

          Shaukat,

          Lol, I was 75% trolling with the last part of my comment.

          I figured you were joking. So was I.

          However, I do think it’s telling that a self-proclaimed 2/10 woman who is also a single parent can jump on one of these online services and, at the very least, get a free dinner once a month.

          BUT AS MANY FEMALE POSTERS HAVE WRITTEN ON PREVIOUS POSTS (and you’re a longtime poster)…  We’d rather stick needles in our eyes than go to dinner with someone we’re not interested in just for a free meal. I don’t know any woman who dates to get free meals, with the exception of Noone45. I mean, if all you want is NSA, why bother making bs conversation at an awkward meal? You’re not trying to get to know each other. Go right to the NSA.

      2. 9.1.2
        Clare

        Emily,

        “A free dinner and NSA sex always with the men of her dreams at least once a month. Damn, it feels good to be a gangster.”

        Yeah, sounds like a fulfilling life.

        Kudos on the Office Space reference, by the way!

        1. Emily, the original

          Clare,

          “A free dinner and NSA sex always with the men of her dreams at least once a month.”

          Well, if this was an option for women, I don’t think monogamy would be as appealing. Or you’d at least ride that train for a while and get it out of your system.

          Kudos on the Office Space reference, by the way!

          Thanks for getting it!   🙂

      3. 9.1.3
        Gab

        @Emily

        I just sprayed my coffee laughing. With wit like that I’d date you for sure 😊

        1. Marika

          Me too!

          Emily, if it’s a choice between a boring date and your eye needle sticking party…you know I’m knocking at your door 😉😉

          (Is it byo needle?)

        2. Emily, the original

          Hi Marika,
          Emily, if it’s a choice between a boring date and your eye needle sticking party…you know I’m knocking at your door 😉😉
          I don’t know where men are getting the idea women are trying to scam them out of a free dinner. There may be women who do that, but I don’t know any.
          (Is it byo needle?)
          No. It’s BYOV. Bring your own vodka. I’ll supply the needles. 🙂

        3. Emily, the original

          Gab,

          With wit like that I’d date you for sure 😊

          That’s the best offer I’ve had in a long time. 🙂

        4. Marika

          Can I swap wine for vodka? 😃

          Emily unfortunately they get the idea from women they date…and this blog. Whenever a woman acts like a man should pay, no questions asked..and even enjoy the ‘privilege’, it makes me wince. We’re not all like that! But the women (and men) with the bonehead expectations of the opposite sex are unfortunately the loudest and most memorable.

        5. Emily, the original

          Marika,
          Can I swap wine for vodka? 😃
          NO! You come to play or you don’t play at all!  🙂
          Whenever a woman acts like a man should pay, no questions asked..and even enjoy the ‘privilege’, it makes me wince. We’re not all like that! 
          Me, too. A date is a chance to see if you like each other. Both people are on equal footing. No has the “privilege” of being with the other.

      4. 9.1.4
        Shaukat

        “I don’t know where men are getting the idea women are trying to scam them out of a free dinner.”

        I was responding to a poster who basically insinuated that she was doing just that. You’re right though, the majority of women aren’t trying to scam their dates–however, many still go on dates thinking “meh, I’ll give it a shot,” and the end result for the guy is essentially the same. Hence, I don’t know why these guys are buying her dinner on the first date.

        1. Emily, the original

          Shaukat,

          however, many still go on dates thinking “meh, I’ll give it a shot,” and the end result for the guy is essentially the same.

          We’re discussed this topic before on this blog as well. I would personally not accept dates where “meh” was anywhere in the vocabulary — my reaction should be at least a “he’s fairly cute, I’d like to see where this goes” — but some women can grow attraction, and if you want those women to say no to a date if they aren’t feeling it immediately, you may be taking women out of the running who could like you in the future. An immediate, “hell, yes!” response is rare. Don’t men date the same way? Surely not every woman you ask out is someone who floors you or you’d go on about 1 date a year.  

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily

          Don’t men date the same way? Surely not every woman you ask out is someone who floors you or you’d go on about 1 date a year. 

          No, men do not date the same way because they are doing the pursuing, planning, and paying.  That is a lot of effort for a “meh” impression of a woman.  A guy knows that he either wants to date a woman or at least have sex with her before he asks.   The tables do get turned when a woman is the pursuer instead of the pursued, especially if she is planning and paying.  In that case, a woman can get a taste of the medicine she serves to guys who ask her out, but for whom she has lukewarm interest.  That is why most women hate being the pursuer. The pursuer is usually always interested whereas the pursued can be lukewarm or even indifferent about the encounter.

      5. 9.1.5
        Marika

        Tequila??

    2. 9.2
      Noone45

      And what of it? Should I just go lock myself up and wither away because people think I’m ugly? Funny that most of the new comments are jumping on me for daring to enjoy myself. I have no shot at a serious,  loving relationship.  I’m not hurting anyone, so I’m not sure why so many of you are attacking me. I’m living the hand I was dealt.

      1. 9.2.1
        Marika

        I don’t see anyone attacking you, Noone45. Shaukat is making the point that it’s a lot harder for a man to go online and get easy sex and Sparkling is making the point that this blog is designed for people who want relationships.

        Do as you wish, but if you post on here you get both negative and positive feedback. That’s just how it works.

        I actually think the ‘free meals’ bit is something you’ll likely get pushback on. Who wants to buy a stranger you’ll never see again a free meal? Do you let them know you’re just in it for a free meal?

        1. Noone45

          “Shaukat is making the point that it’s a lot harder for a man to go online and get easy sex”

          Yea, because most men are deluded enough to think they can shoot above their pay grade. It doesn’t work like that. ugly men don’t want to sleep with ugly women. Therein lies their problem. Despite what the above commenter thinks, I don’t shoot above my pay grade.

          “Sparkling is making the point that this blog is designed for people who want relationships.”

          And? I made no statement on that issue. I merely made a snide remark about people complaining about OLD. Online dating works. Most of the women I know who are in a relationship met their boyfriend or husband using OLD. I stated it worked for normal people in my post. YAG is very correct about what the problem is for many people using OLD. OLD can give many people unrealistic expectations. Either way, the whining about this subject is nothing new. People whined about singles bars, speed dating, square dance, courting, whatever. From time immemorial, people have complained about the methods people use to get a mate. Hell, I remember reading Henry VIII’s bitching about how portraits were fooling him into thinking ugly girls were hot. Nothing here is new.

          “Do you let them know you’re just in it for a free meal?”

          Yep, I’m very clear that I’m a single mother to a disabled child and am not looking for anything serious. I also make it clear I’m not sleeping with them. I don’t go in expecting a guy to pay, but they always do. I always offer to split the check and they always turn me down. I do get to hear all about their woes, so perhaps I’m just an underpaid therapist.

      2. 9.2.2
        shaukat

        Yea, because most men are deluded enough to think they can shoot above their pay grade. It doesn’t work like that. ugly men don’t want to sleep with ugly women. Therein lies their problem. Despite what the above commenter thinks, I don’t shoot above my pay grade.

        Your two statements contradict one another. Ugly men don’t want to sleep with ugly women, yet apparently you don’t shoot above your pay grade, hence you’re sleeping with unattractive men. So I guess unattractive men do want to sleep with unattractive women, or, more likely, the plethora of men looking for casual sex on dating platforms simply means that most women, even unattractive ones, can pick within reason (clearly, a 2 isn’t going to be hooking up with a 9, no matter how often men date down, as YAG says).

        I actually have no issue with what you’re doing in terms of NSA sex, my comment was mainly directed at your boast that you get a free dinner once a month, which imo was in bad taste. However you’ve now cleared that up. Actually, your last paragraph is pretty sad and simply demonstrates how desperate some men are. You make it clear that you’re not interested in dating them, that you won’t sleep with them, and yet they’re still willing to buy you dinner for the privilege of…talking to you and unloading their issues? Christ, some guys are in serious need of self-improvement.

        1. Sandra

          I don’t think buying dinner at a modest restaurant is that much of a stretch for many guys. If he does not cook, he would probably buy himself dinner anyway. What is a few extra dollars for some conversation if a guy is lonely?

        2. Tron Swanson

          shaukat,

          I agree completely. I’m so, so glad that I never dated. I can’t imagine paying to “talk” to a woman. On the contrary, a woman should have to pay me if she wants me to listen, because non-sexual conversations with women are boring and awful.

        3. No Name To Give

          Tron, are you married or an MGTOW? Because if listening to a woman is that terrible to you, you’re right not to date. Or get married.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Sandra

          I don’t think buying dinner at a modest restaurant is that much of a stretch for many guys.

          You think wrong.  I never do dinner on a first online date.  A woman has to pass the “I’d do her” test before I consider buying dinner, and a man does not know that until he meets a woman in person.  The only thing that is more painful than having to sit through dinner with a woman who posted non-representative photos and/or stretched the truth in areas on her profile is having to pay for it.

          If he does not cook, he would probably buy himself dinner anyway. What is a few extra dollars for some conversation if a guy is lonely?

          I do not know a single unattached man who does not know how to cook.  Every guy I know is at least accomplished on the grill because that is considered to be the man’s job where I live.

          Only guys who struggle to get dates buy dinner on a first online date.  That gesture makes these men fools because they are paying for women they cannot have nine times out of ten.  If woman is truly interested in a man, she will meet him for a walk in the park.  I started to do that very thing during the warm months this year.

        5. Tron Swanson

          NNTG,

          I’m happily MGTOW–and I’m also not a fan of talking to anyone, male or female. However, if I’m physically involved with a woman, I’m perfectly fine with listening to her. In that context, it’s merely a minor annoyance. But doing nothing but talking, or paying to talk…that’s just insanity, to me.

        6. SparklingEmerald

          YAG said “If woman is truly interested in a man, she will meet him for a walk in the park.”
          __________________________________________________
          BINGO ! Thank you YAG for saying this. I and other female posters have been suggesting this for initial meet and greets, but it falls on deaf ears and/or gets drowned out by the female posters bragging about using men as meal tickets and nothing more. Perhaps men will heed this advice coming from a male.

          A truly interested woman wants to get to know THE MAN, and would not balk at a walk along a scenic nature trail, or a free art gallery opening. If she balks, then you’ve weeded out a gold digger.

          Just like women have to pass your “I’d do her” test, men have to pass my “I potentially see a boyfriend” test (at which point, I would “do” him)

          I cringe when commenter claim to spend hundreds of dollars on a first date. This shows financial irresponsiblity and lack of imagination. This includes women who claim to spend hundreds of dollars to look good for a first meet and greet on new outfits and trips to the blow dry bar. Good grief, don’t you already own some nice outfits ? Don’t you know how to wash and dry your own hair to look presentable for a date ? Sheesh.

        7. Clare

          YAG & Sparkling Emerald,

          “If woman is truly interested in a man, she will meet him for a walk in the park.”

          YES. In fact, I really prefer this for a first date. The fact of the matter is, before you’ve met, you don’t really know whether you will like each other yet. Sitting down to a dinner is quite an investment for both parties, and a lot of pressure. A three course (or even two course) meal with drinks is a long time to make conversation with a stranger. If one or both of you is not feeling it, even worse.

          Also, on the man’s side, he feels pressured to pay when he may or may not be feeling it for the woman. On the woman’s side, if she is not really feeling it for the guy, she either feels pressured to pay for a date she didn’t really enjoy or she feels guilty for accepting a dinner when she doesn’t want to date the guy.

          It’s all too much for a first meeting. Best to meet for a drink (which is a few bucks), or a lovely free date such as a beach walk or art exhibition. The pressure is off and you can enjoy the experience for what it is – meeting a stranger for the first time.

          Oh, and I completely concur with SE about people who spend a fortune on a first date. It’s not a business deal or a once-in-a-lifetime TV audition. It’s just meeting someone.

        8. Yet Another Guy

          @SE

          “Just like women have to pass your “I’d do her” test, men have to pass my “I potentially see a boyfriend” test (at which point, I would “do” him)”

          When I was younger, the “I’d do her” test was all that a woman needed to pass. Sadly, today, a woman has to pass the “I’d do her” test and the “Is she sane?” test before I can consider getting naked with her. A man has to worry about a woman going Glenn Close on him these days.

        9. Clare

          YAG,

          “Sadly, today, a woman has to pass the “I’d do her” test and the “Is she sane?” test before I can consider getting naked with her. A man has to worry about a woman going Glenn Close on him these days.”

          I know this is not a “who has it worse” contest, but women have to worry about men going Glenn Close on them too, I can assure you. I have had two ex-boyfriends threaten suicide when I pulled away, multiple brushes with stalking behavior… and this is not even mentioning outbursts of rage and emotional meltdowns.

          It sure is a jungle out there.

  10. 10
    Marika

    I still don’t see where you get the idea that people are ‘attacking’ you, Noone45? Most of the comments were pretty mild, and your comments towards others (and life in general) tend to be far more negative & judgemental on this blog than people are towards you.

    In fact, I remember people trying to support & encourage you, and ask if maybe you weren’t selling yourself short – perhaps you do have more to offer than you think.

    But it’s far easier to play the victim.

    1. 10.1
      Clare

      Marika,

      People with chronic low self-esteem are among the most bitter out there. They take everything personally and see everything as an attack on themselves, and it all just feeds into the negative opinion they have of themselves. They have no desire or ability to help themselves because they don’t see a world outside of the prison they have created for themselves. It’s very sad really, and deserving of one’s compassion.

  11. 11
    No Name To Give

    She did say she’s mother to a disabled child. That probably leaves her with little energy to get a romantic relationship off the ground. It’s challenging enough to single parent children who aren’t disabled. And you can’t just let anyone into your life when you are a single parent, especially when you have a disabled child.

     

    I’ll cut Noone45 some slack. First, I think she just has a dry, acerbic wit. 2nd, I’ve seen more than once here women being told we over estimate our looks, our “smv” or what have you. She’s just calling herself as she sees it, not embellishing.

    1. 11.1
      Noone45

      Basically,  I got intelligence rather than looks. I’m also a very direct communicator,  which tends to not be the mode most women use. Being unattractive is not inherently terrible. I don’t get harrassed when I’m out, there are no expectations regarding my looks,  and people do tend to take me seriously at all times. Either way, not all stories have a happy ending and it’s ok to acknowledge that fact. Either way, most of the problems around here stem from unrealistic expectations.  That’s not something I suffer from.

    2. 11.2
      Marika

      No name

      I do have sympathy for both single parents and most definitely for those with children with special needs.

      What I don’t get is what kind of response we are ‘allowed’ to give her here. We can’t question anything she says or does, we can’t make suggestions, we can’t offer encouragement…it all gets taken the wrong way or argued against or turned back on the commenter. Even a ‘poor you’ type comment isn’t appreciated. So what’s left?

      1. 11.2.1
        Noone45

        “Poor you” comments are patronizing foolishness.  Frankly, most of these comments are laughing at me. I don’t particularly care as I said it publicly and that’s how these things go, but it says a hell of a lot more about most of then it does me.

        Not all problems are solvable. I don’t begrudge others for wanting love at all. I merely point out that many of you are the source of your problems.  Would you want to be around someone that makes others the butt of a joke? Give you bait and you guys run with it.

        Either way, one of the darker lessons of life if that one can do everything right and still come up a loser. That’s what I learned.  Some of you won’t learn that lesson until much later.

        1. Clare

          Noone45,

          Whom exactly are you referring to when you say “you”?

          Are you trying to suggest that the rest of the commenters here are all one homogenous group suffering from exactly the same kind of issues?

          I’m really baffled by your comments most of the time. They don’t seem to make any sense. You do realise that the commenters are of both genders, of all different ages, and come from different countries and cultures?

          And as for your quip about people learning “later” that they will come up a loser no matter how hard they try… God, how sad.

          I’m just sorry that you are presenting these as intelligent insights rather than the crushing negativity from which you personally seem to suffer.

        2. Noone45

          “Whom exactly are you referring to when you say “you”?” 

          It’s a generic you. People who read a lot tend to get what the generic “you” means. This is a fairly well know writing concept.

          “And as for your quip about people learning “later” that they will come up a loser no matter how hard they try…”

          That is not what I said. I’m going to assume at this point you have issues with reading comprehension, or are being intellectually dishonest, and will no longer respond.

           

        3. Clare

          “People who read a lot tend to get what the generic “you” means.”

          “I’m going to assume at this point you have issues with reading comprehension, or are being intellectually dishonest, and will no longer respond.”

          Issues with reading comprehension? I don’t know what the generic “you” means? I’m a writing tutor – that is my job. So I don’t think it’s that.

          Personal attacks are the last resorts of the intellectually dishonest.

          Much easier than addressing how crushingly negative all your posts sound.

      2. 11.2.2
        No Name To Give

        Who said you “can’t” do anything? You offered your perspective, I offered mine. My saying I’m cutting Noone45 some slack does not limit your ability to say anything.

        1. Marika

          I understand. My point is, how do you cut someone some slack when nothing you say to them gets taken well?

  12. 12
    Randy

    *Trying to change the subject*

    Volunteering is a great way to meet people. Personally I met my partner at a bar the old fashioned way…

     

     

    1. 12.1
      Lynx

      Such nice manners, Randy!

       

      I don’t have any problem with OLD, I get the math and how many more people you can be exposed to with dating apps (no double entendre intended by using the word, ‘exposed’!)

       

      My observation is that OLD can be so all-consuming you forget to take advantage of old-school ways to meet people… like volunteering and bars. Which is a shame, because after OLD for a while, it actually seems way, way easier to just chat up that cute whoever standing behind you in line at Starbucks. At least you know for sure what they look like!

      1. 12.1.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @Lynx

        Other day-to-day activities are fine; however, I am a firm believer that anyone met in a bar should be left in a bar. What I like about OLD is that I can get a feel for a woman before meeting her. While lack of chemistry when meeting in person can be a problem, I will take that to strong chemistry without compatibility. Chemistry-based dating is little more than a hamster wheel from which one cannot escape.

  13. 13
    Randy

    Thanks I try 😀

    I think it could be one of the biggest swindles around dating. Thinking that meeting people in an OLD fashioned way takes too much time. It actually shortens the process of a building relationship.

    No ‘second’ first dates. You know what people look, sound and smell like… And there is a barrier to entry (the guy needs to have some courage)

  14. 14
    Yet Another Guy

    @Randy

    “I think it could be one of the biggest swindles around dating. Thinking that meeting people in an OLD fashioned way takes too much time. It actually shortens the process of a building relationship.”

    Actually, meeting people the old-fashioned way does not shorten the process. What meeting in real life does is remove the continuous noise (online message traffic) that causes a man or woman to continue to seek a bigger, better deal (the illusion that everyone is available to everyone). I guarantee that I am not the only one who is passed on someone I met online because I thought that someone who was in my date pipeline was better only to discover that I was mistaken. I know, as a guy, it is ridiculously easy to be distracted by a woman who is more attractive and/or younger than a woman I have already met in person. It is almost like an addiction. I am certain that women suffer from similar problems due to the sheer number of date candidates.

  15. 15
    Yet Another Guy

    I would like to add an observation that I have made on the free sites (it does not seem to happen anywhere near as often on the pay sites). On the free sites, forty-something and fifty-something women tend to skew their desired age range from their age minus fifteen-plus years to their age or their age plus a year or two and then include language declaring that they are not looking to hookup. As Mr Ron White says, one cannot fix stupid. Here is a case where a woman’s actions do not match her words, at least that is how guys see it. A guy who is looking to hookup sees that kind of age range and just ignores what a woman wrote in her summary. No quality man is going to pursue a peer-age woman with that kind of age range just as no quality woman will give a peer-age man who has the same kind of skew the time of day.

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