Should You Send a Follow-up Email to Someone To Hasn’t Written You Back?

Dear Evan

1. Should a person send a follow-up email to someone they have written to before and not heard from?
2: What do you think of expressing in one’s profile that you prefer emails to winks?

Thank you so much for your encouragement and help in our searches.

Ynez

Dear Ynez,

Allow me to answer your second question first, because it’s a lot quicker:

No. Don’t express in your profile that you prefer emails to winks. You wanna know why?

1) EVERYBODY prefers emails to winks. So, in essence, you’re saying something as clichéd as “I like to laugh” or “I want a man who’s honest.” It’s a pointless point, and is one that’s bound to be ignored.

2) The fact that he winks instead of taking the time to write to you speaks volumes about him. A wink says either that he’s lazy, he’s illiterate, or, more likely, that he’s winking at 50 people at a time to see who responds to him. He may actually be a decent guy – but he’s a decent guy who is pretty indiscriminate about the women he contacts. Proceed with caution.

3) I just think it’s in poor form to tell anyone what to do. “Nobody over the age of 40! No cheaters or liars! Nobody who has addiction issues!” Feel free to ignore anyone who doesn’t meet your criteria, Ynez – including your desire to be emailed – but please, don’t issue demands in your profile.

Next…

I have two (and maybe even three) answers to your query about sending a follow-up email. One set of rules applies to men, another applies to women. And yes, there’s a logical explanation for this double standard.

Women have the simpler answer. No, you shouldn’t send a follow-up email to a guy if he hasn’t written back. It’s not that it’s impossible that he was busy, or accidentally deleted your email, or had an emotional crisis that caused him to abandon dating for awhile. Rather, it’s that, 99 times out of 100, a guy who doesn’t write back to you is a guy who isn’t attracted to you. If he is attracted to you but is dating other people, he’ll get back to you eventually, without any additional prodding on your part.

Men are faced with a different dilemma. Why are there different rules for men and women? Because women – especially younger women – receive infinitely more emails than men. Think about it: If a guy is doing great, he might get ten emails – and can manage to respond to the three or four attractive women in his inbox. If a woman is doing great, she might get 50 emails, or 150 emails, or 400 emails. Which means that there are definitely some quality guys who don’t get through the first screening process

I remember meeting a woman on Match.com in 2002. We dated for six weeks and I remember asking her about her experience. She told me that she received over 500 emails in her first week. How many guys did she write back to? Five. That’s 495 guys who got silence in return for their emails. This reinforces why women are NOT obliged to write back polite rejection letters AND it reinforces why just because older men want attractive young women, they are unlikely to get a letter back. If she has 500 potential future spouses in the mix, why would she date a guy fifteen years older? She could date a guy that’s just as successful and kind, but closer to her age. And she usually will. Doesn’t mean she’s bad. Just means she has choices. See my blog post “As Valuable as Your Options” if this isn’t clear to you.

But back to my point. … When a man’s dealing with such a competitive atmosphere, he might take a shot at  writing a second or a third time. Plenty of women who are exasperated with the flood of emails delete their entire inbox just to keep things manageable. What they DON’T do, and probably should is HIDE THEIR PROFILES. But as much as the young women complain about all of the awful guys who write to them, they generally refuse to stem the tide by removing themselves or going without a picture. I wrote about this extensively in I Can’t Believe I’m Buying This Book and think that if your biggest problem is the volume of the “wrong men” writing, it’s really easy to fix. Take down your photo or profile and proactively contact men. Instead of spending half your day deleting profiles of men you’d never consider, you could be talking to one or two decent guys at once. Most women are not afflicted with this problem, but it is a real one, especially for the younger set.

Wait, what was your question again, Ynez? Oh, should you follow up with an email if you’ve been ignored? For you, as a woman, probably not. It wouldn’t cost much to try, but I don’t think the results will be that great. Men are looks-driven and I don’t know many who ignore someone who piques their interest. For men, it’s probably worth it to take a second shot a month down the road. But then again, there are enough quality women that I don’t see why you’d write to the same uninterested ones twice. Eventually, you gotta take a hint.

Or, if you’re like most people, maybe you don’t.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Marika

    Tom

    That’s a very extreme position and a great example of black & white thinking. You’re dealing with humans, who are busy, get distracted, have stuff going on..I’ve had guys assume all sorts of (incorrect) things about me and my level of interest because I didn’t act exactly on their schedule. I’m not saying you should chase someone down for a date endlessly, but the stuff you said…woah! People get one chance only in your world??

    Also, embarrassing and pathetic is in your own head. Sending multiple emails over and over, hassling someone who says no, sure, but two brief emails if you really like the look of a woman is neither embarrassing nor pathetic.

    1. 31.1
      Tom10

      @ Marika 31
      “You’re dealing with humans, who are busy, get distracted, have stuff going on..I’ve had guys assume all sorts of (incorrect) things about me and my level of interest because I didn’t act exactly on their schedule.”
       
      Maybe, but highly unlikely. It’s statistically wiser to assume the other party wasn’t interested. Read Evan’s answer above:
       
      “You shouldn’t send a follow-up email to a guy if he hasn’t written back. It’s not that it’s impossible that he was busy, or accidentally deleted your email, or had an emotional crisis that caused him to abandon dating for awhile. Rather, it’s that, 99 times out of 100, a guy who doesn’t write back to you is a guy who isn’t attracted to you. If he is attracted to you but is dating other people, he’ll get back to you”

      So okay, you might have been busy Marika, but 99 times out of 100 that’s not the reason someone doesn’t reply; rather it’s that they’re simply not interested…enough, to reply. Therefore, statistically, is it wiser for me to operate as if that person is in the 99% group or the 1% group? The former of course.
       
      Additionally, as there is an endless amount of people to contact in the world why would anyone email the same person a second time when there are millions of others who would be more than happy to reply the first time? It displays a scarcity mindset which is unattractive.

      “I’m not saying you should chase someone down for a date endlessly, but the stuff you said…woah! People get one chance only in your world??”
       
      Right. One chance; and if you’re their dream catch they’ll make sure not to mess it up. The way I see it is people display most interest and are on their best behavior at the very beginning of relationships; if they can’t display appropriate behavior and interest at that point then are odds they certainly won’t in the future either. You’re confusing black and white thinking with boundaries. More flexibity can come further down the line.
       
      “Also, embarrassing and pathetic is in your own head.”
       
      Hmmm, maybe.
       
      I tend to get repeat email from two types:
       
      –          Type 1 sends the cursory “hi” or “hey there” over and over. Does anyone actually reply to those emails? Obviously they’re mass-sending them to everyone and just seeing who bites. Then they forget who they sent previous emails to. Have they no discrimination at all? Just ewww.
      –          Type 2 reads my profile and sends a more comprehensive email. Then a few months later they send another similar one, ether forgetting that I didn’t reply the first time or hoping that I’ll have a change of heart maybe?
       
      Either way I’m embarrassed for them. Perhaps the tone of my original comment was a bit harsh (bad day at the office) but I stand by it’s essence.

      1. 31.1.1
        Emily, the original

        Tom10,

        Rather, it’s that, 99 times out of 100, a guy who doesn’t write back to you is a guy who isn’t attracted to you. If he is attracted to you but is dating other people, he’ll get back to you”

        Did you read this, Tom? A guy doesn’t write back because he’s getting a handful of emails and he remembers every one. A woman may receive 3 or 4 times that many. Maybe more. And even if she’s not and she does remember him … WHO CARES? It’s an email to a stranger in the virtual world.

        Either way I’m embarrassed for them. 

        That’s wasted energy. Save if for real dating embarrassment. You’re too touchy about this stuff.

      2. 31.1.2
        Marika

        It seems your mind is made up, Tom and that’s cool. But if you read Evan’s response properly, he has two sets of rules, one for men and one for women. For the simple reason that most women get infinitely more emails than men. Unfair, probably, but true. Even for a popular guy like yourself it’s true.

        I can honestly say there are multiple, multiple emails I never even saw. The guy is asking for women’s opinions, and I can guarantee the only time I’d be ’embarrassed’ for a guy is if he wrote over and over and wouldn’t let up. If he wrote twice, depending on how busy I was at the time, it’s likely I wouldn’t even notice it was twice. Or only briefly register it.

        This is not high school or a popularity contest. I’d like to think we’re slightly more mature than that. I’d also say if a woman labels you as ‘pathetic’ for a simple follow up, she’s probably not the nicest person or best relationship prospect (too picky & judgy).

      3. 31.1.3
        Tom10

        @ Emily, the original 31.1.1
        “A guy doesn’t write back because he’s getting a handful of emails and he remembers every one. A woman may receive 3 or 4 times that many. Maybe more.” 
         
        @ Marika 31.1.2
        “if you read Evan’s response properly, he has two sets of rules, one for men and one for women”
         
        Whereas Evan did acknowledge that the rules are different for men and women online due to the aforementioned volume differential, he still questioned the wisdom of writing to the same women a second time:
         
        “For men, it’s probably worth it to take a second shot a month down the road. But then again, there are enough quality women that I don’t see why you’d write to the same uninterested ones twice. Eventually, you gotta take a hint.”
         
        So his two sets of rules actually…aren’t that different after all.
         
        “I’d also say if a woman labels you as ‘pathetic’ for a simple follow up, she’s probably not the nicest person or best relationship prospect (too picky & judgy).”
         
        Hmm.
         
        Actions speak louder than words. No woman is going to verbally label someone as pathetic for sending an email; she’ll just ignore the message…again.
         
        Maybe we need the input of a guy who had some success on a second email? I’d say we’ll be waiting a while…

        1. shaukat

          I’ve never emailed a woman twice, though there was one incident when, after reactivating my account on a site, I received a response from a woman who I had messaged two years earlier. When I playfully brought the delayed response to her attention, she replied stating that she didn’t even notice it was two years old and must have missed it the first time around, adding that she thought I had just sent it. We ended up going on a few dates.I bring it up because it provides some indirect evidence supporting what the ladies here are saying, that some messages might fall through the cracks initially, though it’s probably rare. I suppose Tom would have simply told her that she missed her shot two years ago;)

        2. Tom10

          @ Shaukat
          “I suppose Tom would have simply told her that she missed her shot two years ago;)”
           
          Hahaha; you snooze you lose sucker. Jus’ kiddin’
           
          “I received a response from a woman who I had messaged two years earlier. We ended up going on a few dates”
           
          Do you mind me asking why the few dates fizzled out Shaukat?

        3. shaukat

          @TomDo you mind me asking why the few dates fizzled out?Not at all. Standard no real romantic connection/chemistry, I think it was mutual. If you’re asking whether there was a correlation between the delayed response and the outcome, I doubt it. Also, no need to change your ways if what you’re doing is working, you’re right, abundance mentality is a good thing. Plus I never thought about your argument regarding how sending multiple messages might skew the dating market further, way to think about the broader community, ha! 

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Tom10

          Maybe we need the input of a guy who had some success on a second email? I’d say we’ll be waiting a while…

          A funny thing happened to me not long ago. I re-wrote a woman with whom I had had an earlier conversation; however, I had forgotten that we had had the conversation.  It is an awkward moment when a woman asks if you remember the earlier conversation and you draw a blank.

          That is life for men on the dating sites.  Women complain about being inundated with messages, most of which fall into the “Hi beautiful” category, but online dating is a hardcore numbers game for men. I write two women for every woman who replies.  I exchange messages with five women for every woman I advance to the telephone conversation stage.  I hold telephone conversations with around three women for every woman that I agree to meet. Online dating is like having a second full-time job for a man.

  2. 32
    Marika

    LOTS of emails fall through the cracks guys. Message a woman twice, don’t, whatever, but please don’t take it so personally (for your own good).

    You just don’t get what it’s like to be a woman online dater. I’m certainly not complaining that we get a lot of messages, I’m just stating a fact.

  3. 33
    Marika

    “Bring on the next babe”. Haha, Emily ☺

    I think an abundance mentality is a good idea. But I personally don’t think ‘no second chances’ is an abundance mentality, as it comes from a place of fear. Particularly the way it’s been expressed by a couple of the guys here.

    I don’t pretend to know the challenges of online dating for men…but I do know I’ve been given, and give others, second chances. It feels nice. Because we’re all human.

    ‘No second chances’ doesn’t come across as high value & impressive to me; it comes across as cold & unreasonable.

    1. 33.1
      Emily, the original

      Marika,

      ‘No second chances’ doesn’t come across as high value & impressive to me; it comes across as cold & unreasonable.

      Yeah, I agree. Also, a bit egoistic. She probably didn’t even see the email. It’s like that great line in a Sting song about fighting a battle he’d invented inside his own head.

      1. 33.1.1
        Mark B

        I’m not sure about other sites, but on Match you can get the email read notification feature.  It shows both, if and when, an email was read.  I think it’s worth it.  It leaves no doubt.  Well she read the message that I’m interested- the ball is in her court now.  And as a guy- that’s all you can do imo.  It, however, doesn’t show if someone deleted the email you sent them.

        1. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

          I’m not sure about other sites, but on Match you can get the email read notification feature.  It shows both, if and when, an email was read.  I think it’s worth it.  It leaves no doubt.  

          I agree. That leaves no doubt. There’d be no reason to send another email.

          The men who responded to your question  mentioned self-respect … my friend went out once with a guy on Match and found out he was into BDSM. She told him it wasn’t her thing and they parted on (what she thought) were good terms. A month later he sent her an email about how much he was enjoying his new girlfriend. Now, that’s a  lack of self-respect and so transparent. That’s “chump” behavior. Big difference between that and sending a second email to a stranger if you’re not sure she read the first one.

        2. Mark B

          Emily,

          Yeah I agree on both counts.  I”m not into BDSM either.  And that’s shows a lack of class to email someone after you’ve parted ways on good terms.  If his current girlfriend is so great why is he sending your friend an email then?  If he’s even seeing anyone, which I doubt.  That’s someone who isn’t confident in himself and felt the need to do something.

          One of my pet peeves is when I’m ghosted after I’ve met a gal.  That’s also a lack of class.  I never do it, but I’m sure some guys ghost women just like some women ghost guys.  Now, if I’ve only sent an intro email and we’ve never met, than that’s different.  I don’t expect, or honestly, even want a response if they’re not interested.  However, some guys feel the opposite and want the rejection email. Not me- I don’t.  I only want women interested in me to email me.  That way when I open up an email from someone I’ve contacted it’s like oh cool- she feels the same.  The truth is I send out a lot of emails, I personalize them for each woman, but still send out a lot and have probably forgotten who I’ve sent my messages to 5 minutes after I’ve sent them.

          However, if we’ve met and I’m asking her out again, and don’t hear back that’s incredibly rude and ticks me off. And I’ll let them know it’s a bush league move.  And it doesn’t tick me off because she’s not interested, but rather the way she communicates that message.  I’ll email/text her to I could care less if she wants to see me again, just be straight up with me in a cool way. We met, I bought you a drink or an appetizer, I don’t think sending a quick email or text back to me is asking too much.  Of course that’s a whole different topic and can of worms.  I don’t want to go off on a tangent.

        3. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

          However, if we’ve met and I’m asking her out again, and don’t hear back that’s incredibly rude and ticks me off. And I’ll let them know it’s a bush league move.  And it doesn’t tick me off because she’s not interested, but rather the way she communicates that message.  I’ll email/text her to I could care less if she wants to see me again, just be straight up with me in a cool way.

          I actually think you do care if you are sending another email or text to scold her for not responding. That’s kind of up in the league of Mr. BDSM. And my friend went out with him only once, but she’s a cool lady and she told him it just wasn’t her thing. She didn’t shame him or act all grossed out.

           We met, I bought you a drink or an appetizer, I don’t think sending a quick email or text back to me is asking too much.

          I agree. There is a person on the other end of that request, and it takes all of a minute to respond. You don’t learn about someone in how he/she responds to someone he/she likes but in how she/responds to someone he/she doesn’t like. It’s called character.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Mark B

          However, if we’ve met and I’m asking her out again, and don’t hear back that’s incredibly rude and ticks me off. And I’ll let them know it’s a bush league move. 

          Asking a woman out via e-mail or text is a bush league move.

        5. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Asking a woman out via e-mail or text is a bush league move.

          Yeah, better to show up at her house holding a boombox over your head.

        6. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          Call me old-fashioned, but asking a woman out on a date should be done in person or at least via a telephone call. Texting and other forms of messaging scream, “I am a low effort man!”

          I was curious as to why a particularly attractive and successful 37-year-old woman wanted to meet me. I was shocked by her answer, and that was “Your generation was the last generation of men who were taught how to properly court a woman. Men my age only want to hang out and hookup.”  Therein lies the reason why some thirty-something women date fifty-something men.  They want a man who was taught how to properly court a woman by parents who married when traditional gender roles where the norm.  I have to agree with her assessment because most younger men are absolutely clueless when it comes to courtship.

        7. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Call me old-fashioned

          That’s the first adjective that comes to mind when I think of you.

          I was curious as to why a particularly attractive and successful 37-year-old woman wanted to meet me. I was shocked by her answer, and that was “Your generation was the last generation of men who were taught how to properly court a woman.” 

          Actually, that’s not true. I’ve lived in the South for years. Southern men, as a whole, are taught to be gracious with women. I went to get a tire fixed together. The door was held for me by a young man. At my previous job, I could be carrying a pencil, and some guy would bolt up from what he was doing and get the door for me.

        8. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          Actually, that’s not true. I’ve lived in the South for years. Southern men, as a whole, are taught to be gracious with women.

          I will not disagree with you on the American South.  They hold on to a lot of good while also holding on to a lot of bad.  However, few people would argue that the American South is not an anachronism.

        9. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          That’s the first adjective that comes to mind when I think of you.

          I have no problem with being thought of as that way.  I was raised by parents who married back when there were traditional gender roles.  When it comes to selecting a lover, women my age prefer men like me to a modern feminist man. I get what I desire. Those guys get the LJBBFF (let’s just be best friends forever) talk.

        10. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          I will not disagree with you on the American South.  They hold on to a lot of good while also holding on to a lot of bad.  However, few people would argue that the American South is not an anachronism.

          The way the Souths thinks is about 30 years behind the rest of the country, but a woman can’t have everything. How much she values certain qualities in a man will vary depending on the woman, but if he’s holding the door, if he’s a take charge tcber, that may ding her bell emotionally because she feels taken care of. If she’s lucky, she may also be attracted to him. With all of that, she may be ok not being able to talk about the Stephen Colbert show.

          I have no problem with being thought of as that way.

          You are not old-fashioned. You have no interest in a committed relationship, you carry on multiple sexual relationships at any given time and you employ push-pull techniques to keep a woman “on her toes and interested.” That sounds pretty modern to me.

      2. 33.1.2
        Mark B

        Yet Another Guy,

        Dude chill.  When I contact someone online after we’ve met it’s always by phone first.  However, if they don’t pick up then I leave a message.  Still no response I text them.

         

        Emily,

        I really don’t care if she says yes or no for a 2nd date after we’ve met.  After only 1 date- & really it’s more like a mini date meeting for a drink.  I do care about being ghosted after we’ve met on my dime.  That’s rude.  I don’t ghost women and I expect the same respect in return. If they do that to me- I let them know that’s a bs move. All it take is one sentence saying thanks, I had fun, but I’m not feeling it works.

        That’s nowhere close to the same league as the BDSM guy your friend dated because your friend told him she wasn’t interested & left things on good terms which was the right way for her to handle it imo.  He wasn’t ghosted after they went out. Totally different situation.

        1. Emily, the original

          Mark B.,

          I do care about being ghosted after we’ve met on my dime.  That’s rude.  I don’t ghost women and I expect the same respect in return.

          Well, you really can’t expect anything, though. You don’t know these women. They are virtual strangers. You’ve met them once, for an hour. I agree that it’s rude, but it’s really not your place to scold them. It doesn’t matter that you’re in the right. It comes off like the person really got under your skin. A confident person doesn’t care doesn’t do anything. A person who doesn’t care would think “her loss” and move on.

        2. Emily, the original

          Mark B.,

          I was just thinking: Here’s an example. Years ago I worked for a woman I didn’t particularly care for. I came into work one day and there was an email from a co-worker (who was at my exact level) telling me I should be grateful to our boss and needed to change my attitude. It really ticked me off. He came into the office as I was reading it and looked at me sheepishly. He was uncomfortable, and I didn’t say a word or respond to the email, which left him to squirm a little bit. He didn’t Know what I was going to do. I could have taken the email to her or to HR. It wasn’t his place to send that to me, but doing nothing was much more effective. It read: I don’t care enough to type out a few sentences and hit reply on an email.

        3. Mark B

          Emily,

          The thing is at that point I really didn’t care what these women thought.  Whether they think I’m confident or not.  That said, confident men also stand up to women and don’t let them feed them some bs.  They call them out on it.  I don’t want to date someone like that.  And it is her loss. I dodge a bullet when those “winners” turn me down. If they don’t want to be scolded then act like an adult & return my message.  That’s what adults do.  Like I said it’s literally 1 sentence- not much.  They want to act like an arrogant little brat too time strapped ti=o do that then I’ll treat them like one.  They were rude- so I’ll be rude back & let them know what I thought of the way they handled it.  Then I move on. I don’t feel bad for what I said.  Hey, they made their bed, not me, they can deal with it.  Then I head to the gym for a good workout- & focus on women who act like adults & have class.

          I don’t expect much online, but I expect a hell of a lot better treatment than that.  People, both women & men(from what I’ve read), treat others lousier online than offline.  That’s how I feel.  I live by the Golden Rule.

           

           

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Mark B

          Fair enough

        5. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

          Ok. I’m sure she’s thinking she dodged a bullet when she gets your scolding message. But we’re at a stalemate here.

        6. Clare

          Mark,

          I really have to wonder what you feel you have to gain by scolding a woman who has ghosted you. To me, it just seems like a complete waste of energy.

          If you don’t care about her at this point and have already made the decision to move on, why expend the energy to tell her off? This action is not benefiting you in any way. It is certainly not going to make her turn around and change her mind. And if you are hoping it will make her think twice about doing it in future… well, I can only say that wording your feelings in a calm and reasonable way will be much more effective than scolding.

          Hey, I get it that it sucks to be ghosted. It’s happened to all of us at some point or other. But true abundance mentality doesn’t waste energy on resenting people like that. And as for wasting energy expecting certain behaviour from people you hardly know… how’s that working out for you? Eh, personally, I’d rather spend the energy taking myself out for a beer with a friend.

        7. Gala

          @Mark B

          Actually, your “scolding” reveals more about your character/personality than you may realize… and it is not a positive. There’s something incredibly petty, passive aggressive and IMO unmanly about it. As if you’re so bothered or starved for attention that you’re trying to elicit any response at all. I would steer clear from anyone who feels that they need to demand respect. But then again, by the time you do that these women have already rejected you, so you know what happens when they get these messages? They forward it to all of their girlfriends with the comment “what a nutjob” and that’s that

        8. Emily, the original

          Gala,

           so you know what happens when they get these messages? They forward it to all of their girlfriends with the comment “what a nutjob” and that’s that

          Or it winds up on the internet somewhere like the guy who did the Excel spreadsheet about his sex life. Best just to let it go. You can’t force people to respond to you in the way you want them to.

        9. Mark B

          Gala,

          I was out of town for a week and I come back to see you’re comment.  You’re WAY out of line with your comment.  If you disagree with me that’s cool- just say Mark I see it differently. Emily disagrees with me that’s fine.

          Calling me starved for attention trying to illicit any response, a nutjob and defending people (both men & women) who ghost as being polite is WAY out of bounds.  So you and your friends wouldn’t go out with me.  I’m heartbroken (sarcasm intended).  Get over yourself.  This is why I’m not a fan of online dating.  People develop such an attitude and an inflated ego- it makes them incredibly unattractive no matter how physically appealing they might be.

          All I’m saying is treat others the way you’d like to be treated.  That goes equally for both men and women.  And not just in dating but in life.  I think it’s a good rule to live by.  That’s it.  That’s all I’m saying.  It’s really not that difficult.  You’re acting like I’m asking them to part the Red Sea for God’s sake.

        10. Mark B

          Emily,
          You know, I really don’t care for the she thinks she dodged a bullet comment directed at me from you, but whatever. All I was saying was treat others the way you’d want to be treated- period. If you folks can’t grasp that concept I don’t know what to tell you. How that point got lost on here is beyond me. Yeah we’re at a stalemate.

        11. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

           If you folks can’t grasp that concept I don’t know what to tell you. How that point got lost on here is beyond me.

          And it’s beyond me why you can’t grasp that sending a woman a scolding email after a woman doesn’t respond to you is childish and says far more about you than it does about her. It’s over the top. You can’t control how others treat you. Let it go.

        12. Mark B

          Emily,

          You and some of the other women on here are acting like you know me.  You don’t.  Sometimes I sent those texts sometimes I don’t.  And who cares what those women think about me.  You’re acting like I value their opinion.  I don’t.  I care about what my family and friends think about me. Not everyone in this world is going to like you. I’m talking about common courtesy and respect towards one another which most people develop as adults.  You don’t know that my ex-girlfriend got leukemia, lost her hair to chemo and that I encouraged her to keep fighting by eating fish and drinking green tea rich in antioxidents to try and save her life- (she hated fish but then ended up liking it) You don’t know that my dad got cancer and that I cared for him full time by myself until after he passed away.  You don’t know me.  You and some of the other folks on here just think you do or that the women I’ve met can figure me out in 5 minutes over a drink.  It takes time for people to get to know each other and for attraction to develop.  People who ghost are WRONG period. Wedding Crashers- Rule #76- No excuses- play like a champion!  The only ones being rude and childish are them. Act like an adult already!  They’re not worthy of anyone’s time or respect including mine.  I have no respect for them or anyone who believes that’s a decent way to treat people whatsoever.  There is such a double standard on here in dating you can’t even see the hypocrisy.  Guys are expected to take time to personalize emails, make them creative, etc. to each woman (which I do by the way) only to have a rather low success rate. And then if guys do meet women on their dime by the way, many of those women are “too busy” to respond to a 2nd or 3rd date request if they’re not interested.  A one sentence text is all it takes.  Wow what a prize those women are.  Truly a gift sent from heaven for “some lucky guy” (sarcasm intended)  aka poor sap.

          There is a clear undercurrent on this board by some of the followers against guys. Whatever we say is wrong and whatever women do is fine- poor things.  You’re defending their actions no matter what they do.  It’s unreal!  Give me a break.  This is the kind of bs you get with online dating and why I don’t give it much weight anymore.  These kind of warped discussions.   Evan is right online dating is another avenue to pursue for singles, but imo it’s not the best avenue because many, (not all) women who act like this.  I met my ex-girlfriend online and she was the exception.  She is the reason I give it another shot.  She was worth it. I’m sure there are others, but the majority of the women online have that kind of snobby attitude and they’re garbage to me.  Instead of being flattered at being asked out for a 2nd or 3rd date they treat people like dirt when they reject guys by ghosting them because of all the attention they get online.  It inflates their ego way past realistic levels. I’m talking women in their 30’s 40’s attractive fit,but not models.  Those kind of women who have that attitude I don’t like, I don’t miss, and I sure as hell don’t respect.  They don’t respect me why should I respect them?  And if the guy they pick ends up cheating on them or treating them like crap- good.  That’s what they deserve.  I don;t feel sorry for them  I really don’t.  You really need to get a clue on how to treat people, not just in dating, but in all facets of life. If you can’t see other people’s points of view you’re going to have a difficult time in dating and in life no matter who you end up dating or what you end up doing.

        13. shaukat

          Mark, I’m with the ladies on this. Calling a woman (or a man) out for ghosting really accomplishes nothing. It has nothing to do with your character, I’m simply saying it won’t make much of a difference-she really will just laugh at you with her friends. Here’s a better idea: You don’t like getting ghosted after paying for a date? Stop paying for first dates. Escalate sexually quickly when you first meet her, especially if it’s online, and don’t get too attached. Everyone has their finger (or rather thumb) on the app trigger these days, so point in getting upset. Adapt. Abundance mentality. 

        14. Mark B

          Everyone on here is attacking the way I sometimes react.  I really could care less.  If i want to react that way I will.  Out of all these posts I haven’t heard one post, not one on why ghosting someone is a cool or decent thing to do to others (whether it’s to men or women) unless they’re a complete jerk on the date.  That’s the only excuse I’ll accept.  Not one post.  What are there like 40 or 50 comments on here?  When you guys think of one- let me know.  Until then I have no respect for anyone who thinks that’s a cool or decent thing to do to others- period. You’re ignoring them, you’re keeping them in the dark, and once they figure it out you’re acting like you’re so much better than them that you won’t even acknowledge their phone or text message.  It’s a d-bag move.  That’s what it is and everyone on here in their heart knows it.  And d-bags are not worth my or anyone’s, for that matter, time, money, or respect.  They’re just not.  And if you folks are going to call me out on here- at least come up with a reason explaining why ghosting someone is a cool thing to do to them.  I’ve explained why it isn’t cool.  Otherwise I’m just tuning you out because it’s just noise.

    2. 33.2
      Clare

      I agree with you, Marika.

      I’ve interacted with quite a few guys who seem to confuse “abundance mentality” with the mentality that “he who cares the least and exercises his power to reject has the most power.” The latter mentality is not powerful – it’s born out of fear of being rejected. Of course often they don’t see that – they stay single for years and years with hearts that are closed off.

      Personally, as a woman, I have never looked at men who are too quick to reject and move on as “strong, confident and powerful.” I’ve never had more respect for such men, as YAG seems to think. I see such men as fearful and cold, and that makes me feel sorry for them.

  4. 34
    Shaukat

    As my post above indicates, I have no problem giving someone the benefit of the doubt or a second chance, but the opportunity to do so has to be there. It’s a bit presumptios for a guy to write a follow up email under the pretext of “giving her a second chance.” If you go on a date and have a nice time with a guy you like who doesn’t call you again, do you follow up on the assumption that he just got busy and forgot? Or do you act like a confident woman and assume he’d call if he was interested? And is your failure to follow up with him “born out of fear of being rejected?” See how that works?:)

    Also, if every guy you didn’t respond to sent you a follow up you’d be even more inundated.

    1. 34.1
      Emily, the original

      Shaukat, 

      If you go on a date and have a nice time with a guy you like who doesn’t call you again, do you follow up on the assumption that he just got busy and forgot? Or do you act like a confident woman and assume he’d call if he was interested? And is your failure to follow up with him “born out of fear of being rejected?” See how that works?:)

      Completely different situation. If you met the person and interacted face to face and you don’t hear anything after that, you move on. The person has had enough time to assess you. That’s entirely different than sending a follow up email to a stranger who has never so much as messaged you and who may have NO IDEA who you are.

    2. 34.2
      Marika

      You make some reasonable points, Shaukat. I wasn’t so much responding to you as the commenters who used words like pathetic, embarrassing, self-worth etc. That’s a very extreme way to think about a second message.

      It’s a bit like when female commenters get all ‘go girl’ and get their backs wayyy up over male behaviour which is either reasonable under the circumstances, or mildly clueless.

      I can guarantee, unless you’re targeting exclusively ’10s’, ‘mean girl’ types, or people 15 years younger,  there’s no harm in a follow up, if you like the look of the person / their profile. It’s 10 seconds of your time. They either respond or not. They definitely aren’t inviting all their friends over to discuss and dissect how pathetic you are (the ‘royal you’, that is).

      I wish there was more humanity and fewer black & white assumptions in online dating.

      And Mark, yes, men ghost too. I even got into a discussion here a while back where some of the male commenters were ardently defending ghosting (I actually think Tom may have been one of them).

    3. 34.3
      Clare

      Shaukat,

      Sometimes I wonder whether you, Tom10 and Mark have even read Evan’s post above. Or if you’ve spoken to a woman about this issue. It’s difficult for you to imagine it because you aren’t in the same position as the woman in this situation. So you liken it to some other dating situation, like where the two of you have met for a drink. Even though the two are NOT THE SAME AT ALL.

      Imagine for a moment that you had received 500 messages on a dating site in one week. This happens to some women. Would you truly, honestly take the time to go read each one, assess it, look through the person’s profile and make a thoughtful decision about whether or not the two of you are a match? If the answer is yes, I can only say that I want your job because I don’t know of anyone with that much time on their hands.

      Therefore, it stands to reason that perfectly great guys are slipping through the net for these women. This the entire crux of Evan’s post which you, Tom and Mark seem to have missed completely.

      1. 34.3.1
        Tom10

        Oh the irony…did you even read Evan’s answer yourself Clare, or did you just conveniently miss where Evan wondered why men would write to the same women twice?
         
        “there are enough quality women that I don’t see why you’d write to the same uninterested ones twice. Eventually, you gotta take a hint.
         
        Or, if you’re like most people, maybe you don’t.”
         
        Now, I understand why men with limited options will just keep emailing the same women over and over; they simply don’t have much choice. But for guys with options it’s simply not necessary.

        1. Clare

          Tom,

          Where did I suggest that men should keep emailing the same women over and over? That’s right – I never said it. I’m talking about one follow up email.

          Also, you and Shaukat and Mark have yet to address my other point: if she never even saw your email, how is it that she is “uninterested”?

        2. Tom10

          @ Clare
          “Where did I suggest that men should keep emailing the same women over and over? That’s right – I never said it. I’m talking about one follow up email.”
           
          Okay that is fair.
           
          “if she never even saw your email, how is it that she is “uninterested”?”
           
          But how is he to know that she didn’t see the email? He can’t. All he knows is that he sent the email and she didn’t reply. The reason – whether it was because she was swamped or uninterested – is irrelevant, as he can’t know either way.
           
          In which case, how will he know that she’ll see the email the next time either? He doesn’t. All he knows is that she’s less likely to reply than other women. Her track record proves it. He’s still better served emailing a different woman.
           
          Clare, I guess, ultimately, you Marika and I are all struggling with the same thing; not being able to appreciate and understand the experiences of the other side.

      2. 34.3.2
        MilkyMae

        When I was on match.com, there was a “mutual match” feature.  You’ll have a list of men who matched your requirements and you matched their requirements.  All you have to do is write to the men on the list who seem attractive and ignore the other men.  Problem solved.

        BTW. If you get 500 emails, most will be winks or less the five syllables long so you don’t need much time the scan them. If great guys are slipping through, spend more time reading the emails and profiles.  Why is it the responsibility for great guys to be super great?

        1. Mark B

          Yeah- I agree.

      3. 34.3.3
        Mark B

        Clare,

        I suppose you could send 1 more email.  I used to do it in the past.  I don’t anymore.  I personalize my emails- don’t send form letters, send them out and then just forget about them.  From a guys perspective, after you send it you can see if the email has been read or not.  Most of the time you can tell if it’s been read.  If the woman is getting 500 emails a week- even if you do go out it’s going to be difficult to build momentum with that kind of competition imo.

        I think Evan even wrote something along the lines of- I suppose you could send another one, but why continue to ask the same women when there are others who are out there. Honestly if i re-up my membership in a year- many times I’ll forget who i contacted in the past.  I don’t keep records or anything.  However, if I remember they didn’t show interest than I won’t contact them again.

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