Should Men Be Forced to Pay For Children They Didn’t Want?

a new-born child carried by his father

I’m a man who helps women understand men. Not all men. Not in every situation. But, in general, if you want to hear how honest, loyal, sensitive, successful, confident, self-aware (and self-aggrandizing) men think, this blog is a pretty good place to start.

Which is why I’m excerpting what is sure to be a controversial post that recently ran in the New York Times. It was written by Laurie Shrage, a women’s studies professor in Florida and it’s like she took the words right out of my brain. In short, while no one in the world will defend deadbeat dads who don’t support their kids after a divorce, that’s a completely different scenario than men who are forced to support a child that they never wanted to have. In her opinion – and in mine – the law should reflect this obvious difference.

“If a man accidentally conceives a child with a woman, and does not want to raise the child with her, what are his choices? Surprisingly, he has few options in the United States. He can urge her to seek an abortion, but ultimately that decision is hers to make. Should she decide to continue the pregnancy and raise the child, and should she or our government attempt to establish him as the legal father, he can be stuck with years of child support payments.”

I’ve been around long enough to know that many women have the reflexive answer that if she accidentally got pregnant, he should be on the hook for it. But that doesn’t quite hold up logically. He can’t have a say over the birth of the fetus (because it’s her body), but she can have a say about whether he supports the accidentally conceived child for the next 18 years?

“The political philosopher Elizabeth Brake has argued that our policies should give men who accidentally impregnate a woman more options, and that feminists should oppose policies that make fatherhood compulsory. In a 2005 article in the Journal of Applied Philosophy she wrote, “if women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.” At most, according to Brake, men should be responsible for helping with the medical expenses and other costs of a pregnancy for which they are partly responsible.”

Continues the author, “Feminists have long held that women should not be penalized for being sexually active by taking away their options when an accidental pregnancy occurs. Do our policies now aim to punish and shame men for their sexual promiscuity? Many of my male students (in Miami where I teach), who come from low-income immigrant communities, believe that our punitive paternity policies are aimed at controlling their sexual behavior. Moreover, the asymmetrical options that men and women now have when dealing with an unplanned pregnancy set up power imbalances in their sexual relationships that my male students find hugely unfair to them. Rather than punish men (or women) for their apparent reproductive irresponsibility by coercing legal paternity (or maternity), the government has other options, such as mandatory sex education, family planning counseling, or community service.”

Is any of this ideal? Of course not. But it’s reality. No matter what we legislate, men and women are going to get drunk, hook up, forget to wear a condom, and have to deal with the consequences of unplanned pregnancies. The question is: what’s fair? Shrage seems to suggest that the current laws are anything but.

“However, just as court-ordered child support does not make sense when a woman goes to a sperm bank and obtains sperm from a donor who has not agreed to father the resulting child, it does not make sense when a woman is impregnated (accidentally or possibly by her choice) from sex with a partner who has not agreed to father a child with her. In consenting to sex, neither a man nor a woman gives consent to become a parent, just as in consenting to any activity, one does not consent to yield to all the accidental outcomes that might flow from that activity.”

As the author proves, one can be a feminist, demand equal rights, and still believe that a system that penalizes men so harshly for an innocent mistake is unjust. While you are entitled to disagree with me, please understand that my whole business is about learning to put yourself in men’s shoes and find a measure of sympathy and understanding for them. By insisting that a man pay hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime for a one-night stand and a broken condom, you are not indicating that you’re considering his plight at all.

Concludes Shrage, “Policies that punish men for accidental pregnancies also punish those children who must manage a lifelong relationship with an absent but legal father. These “fathers” are not “dead-beat dads” failing to live up to responsibilities they once took on – they are men who never voluntarily took on the responsibilities of fatherhood with respect to a particular child.”

Your thoughts below are greatly appreciated.

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  1. 1

    It’s actually more onerous than is presented.   Not only is the father obligated to pay child support, the amount of child support is determined by the wealth of the father.   
    I have a couple of friends who are paying child support to the tune of $10,000+ per month.   It is very hard to believe that these women “accidentally” got pregnant.
    There are well documented cases of men paying even more astronomical child support payment, see Kerkorian, Kirk )
    I can believe a girl in High School accidentally get’s pregnant, but if you’re over 18 and/or graduated from High School and frequently college, it is never an accident.   And if the guy has enough money to make child support payments, it is more premeditated than first degree murder.
    I will also say, that any man of means, who does not know this is a fool, who get’s exactly what he deserves.
    The great tragedy in all this, it’s the kid who really pays the price.

    1. 1.1

      You can’t believe a woman over 18 can accidentally get pregnant? I can’t believe a man over 18 can “accidentally” get a woman pregnant.  

      1. 1.1.1

        That’s not an apples to apples comparison.   What’s lob-sided is, in those situations the man has something to lose, the woman has something to gain.   That’s the nature of the system we currently have.   In other words, men are deathly afraid it’s going to happen which makes them take lots of precautions, women on the other hand have incentive for it to happen.   In my ex-wife’s family, I have seen two former neices purposefully get pregnant because they didn’t know how to take care of themselves and then put the responsibility on their parents to raise their children.   I also have a cousin who got pregnant 3 times by three different men.   I don’t think that’s accidental.   If you do, you’re smoking something.

        1. stella living good

          Such a sad yet socially accepted reality.. Men are victims and are often used by women who Are financially,productively , emotionally, intellectually in secure and frankly have no interest in career goals or being able to be financially independent. It is a lot easier to get pregnant than heaven forbid get job or have some ct
          Career goals.. Man, sometimes I think society hasn’t progressed in the last 40 yes. Women (some) see It more advantageous to be A sugar daddy or just get pregnant and forever depend on men to support them.

          Also, just how fair and honorable is that to the guy they”accidentally” got pregnant by???

        2. J. Tavarez

          Pregnancy is one thing, abortion another, and a child after and supporting it birth yet another one.
          That only women gets to decide about abortion only means that biology is difference, it’s nothing to do with double standards.

          “He can’t have a say over the birth of the fetus (because it’s her body), but she can have a say about whether he supports the accidentally conceived child for the next 18 years?”
          Yes, just like HE can get a say about wether she supports the accidentaly child for the next 18 years. If she had the baby (women don’t abort for many reason, inclusing religious, health problems, noticing the pregnancy too, hormonal/emotional response when you feel like killing someone for aborting, late and so on) and doens’t want it but HE ends up wanting it, she will also have to pay child support.
          In the end, the one who keeps the child is the one with most to “lose” (if we will use such terms to describe our relatioship with our sons and daughters) – he/she will waste not only most/all of their money on their child, and not only a parcel like the parent in child support, but also all of their time, patience, dedication, etc.

          But I guess many men, even more when it comes to the uncivilized American ones, will just try to skip their responsibilities in any way possible, as always, and keep complaining and whinning about it.

        3. Al

          Yeah, cause we just LOVE being single mothers. Give me a damn break! Women around the country are not intentionally getting knocked up to trap men. PEOPLE are accidentally making babies because they like having sex, sometimes without using BC and sometimes because BC fails.

        4. Kathryn

          If a woman is using condoms but not the pill she can accidentally get pregnant if the condom breaks and her partner doesn’t tell her so she can get the morning after pill.   Or if she is denied access to the morning after pill.   Or if her partner purposely tampers with the condoms so that she gets pregnant.   Or rape.   That pregnancy is definitely an “accident” for the woman.   Purposeful for the man.

      2. 1.1.2

        If the contraceptive he uses fails, or the one she uses fails, any resulting pregnancy is an accident.
        If she deceives him and she becomes pregnant, it may not be an accident to her but it is from his perspective.

        1. chantel

          I totally agree here. What about a 19yr old girl who advances onto a 16yr old boy, gets pregnant and wants to keep the baby even after the boy pleading he does not want it, he is not prepared, and asking her to abort. she says no and tells him that he does not need to take care of the child she can by herself. in this situation a boy in school no income yet and he is now responsible for a mistake for 18 years?? where is the equality in that? on and they weren’t even in a relationship it was a one time thing.

        2. Megamorphosis

          That should be illegal in my opinion. Just like having sex with someone if you had AIDS/HIV and didn’t tell your partner. We all know we’re risking both outcomes to some degree, but we still have sex.. same goes with babies.

          Now I’m not comparing a child to an STD but at the same time they’re both sexually transmitted and you’re usually going into it without the intention of ending up with either. A completely valid call out.

          Just like all mistakes and struggles, it’s your battle and you have to make a decision that YOU can rely on. You can’t count on ANYONE but yourself and that’s the unfortunate reality. When you decide to have a child and not use other options (abortion or adoption – which I don’t necessarily fancy either) you are basically signing an agreement that says this is MY CHILD – THE LIFE I CREATED – I WILL TAKE ON 100% OF THE RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE IM A CONSENTING PARENT WHO CONSCIOUSLY MADE THE DECISION OF BIRTH.

          Otherwise, gtfo.

        3. JackieS

          I could not have said it better.

      3. 1.1.3

        While I have to argue that it is technically possible for a couple to accidentally conceive a child.   I totally agree with your sentiment, Jamie.

      4. 1.1.4

        That’s true tue. Many young women will trap the guy with a baby to try and keep them. Again, I know not every woman does that but there are some out there. And men are just as much to blame!   Either wrap it up even if she claims she on bitartrate control or withdrawal which that is not a failure safe plan either…but at least you can say ya tried

        1. d

          I know a woman who put a whole   in the condom to get a man that never wanted her she had sex with various   men but wanted a baby by him because   she fell for him now she has his child hes never met talk to see dont know birthday nothing about the child but name he feels trapped   deceived amd helpless to be honest i feel bad for him he didnt choose that

      5. 1.1.5

        Jamie 1.1:

        Why can’t you believe that a man over 18 can “accidentally” get a woman pregnant?

        It’s  always  an “accident.” Even if intercourse is done at the peak of fertility, a man can’t guarantee that she will conceive. It’s always a “shot in the dark.” “Reverse” NFP can’t guarantee pregnancy from a single act of intercourse, however carefully planned. It can’t guarantee pregnancy at all.

        Humans are some of the least fertile of warm-blooded creatures. Even carefully planned, a single act of intercourse between a young adult male and a female in the peak period of fertility is around 6% likely to result in pregnancy.

        Our semen volume is low for our size, typically about a teaspoonful. Our sperm count (# spermatozoa / unit of volume is low compared to other warm-blooded creatures.

        So, with a 94% likelihood of failure to conceive in a single act, pregnancy is an “accident.”

        Probably too much information.

        1. Jane Wallman

          More like too much bullshit when the pregnancy happens.    Then it is a 100% shot in the dark as you say.

      6. 1.1.6

        NO Really,

        So condoms don’t break? What about the women who says she is on the pill but has either been taking it irresponsibly or not really taking it at all.

        Snap out of it.

        1. Ramon

          Someone who is down to earth!!!

    2. 1.2
      Yours truly

      Yea n the sickest part the mother usually isn’t concerned about the kids its jus focus on wut dad isn’t doing as if he’s to wake up n b a changed man news flash he didn’t want the baby

    3. 1.3

      I get where you coming from, I really do. I think that men should have the option of opting out if the woman chooses to keep a baby he didnt want. I do take issue with your ‘accidental’ pregnancy point.I was on hormonal contraception for YEARS. I got depression and it was decided by my doctors that hormonal contraception was making me worse, so I came off it (all types). I was contemplating my next option, when I met a guy we dated for 6 weeks, then we had sex. We used a condom and he wanted to use lubricant. I was ok with that, until he found out his lubricant ad run out, he quickly grabbed ‘baby oil’. Which, as it turns out, destroys the latex on a condom and BAM I became pregnant.We had sex twice that month. He dumped me not long afterwards, then I found out. So, YES it can accidently happen. In general, though unplanned pregnancies are the result of bad managment of contraception, which is what happened in my case, but there are also women out there who plan pregnancies without the guys knowledge or just ‘forget’ to use contraception on purpose. I’ve met a few of them and they suck ass, not nice people. That abortion experience was shitty and I DO understand why when a woman becomes pregnant accidently she would want to keep it, it feels wrong, because it is wrong, but that short burst of pain is nothing compared to bringing children into the world with resistant fathers! THAT is worse than termination.

      1. 1.3.1

        Simple. There isn’t a baby involved when it’s just a cellular organism/fetus. If she wants to carry it to term, then she should be held responsible. If a man wants it and she doesn’t, but carries it to term for him, he should be responsible. Leave religion and bullshit out of it. Misandry is real, and then some women wonder why no man will deal with them. They realize too late into their 40s “Oh shit, I’m alone.” Stop the Misandry and take personal responsibility. Abort if you can’t afford it. Don’t hold a man responsible because you carry a child to term. Neither side ever wants it. The main reason why the vast majority of “Accidental pregnancies” happen today is because a woman only sees dollar signs. And this happens more often than not in trailer trash parks with white people and ghetto trash communities with people who are raising families on welfare. Stop being dumbasses and get rid of the problem before you create it. Stop having children you cannot afford – both men and women


    4. 1.4

      But the men accidentally didn’t use condoms?  

      1. 1.4.1

        Rubbers are nowhere near 100% effective, especially if you get ’em from Planned Parenthood. Don’t get your rubbers from anyone who makes money off rubbers with holes in them by doing the abortions that result.  

      2. 1.4.2

        Lots of men ‘accidentally’ don’t use condoms.   Not actual accidents of course and not the kind of men most women want to date.   But there are a lot of them out there.

        1. Gerry

          Like me. Never wore a sou’wester in my life. No accident. Found out gf was on the pill and dropped her.

    5. 1.5
      Rachel Winter

      I am in my late 20s, hold a doctorate degree, took the morning after pill after the condom broke and have a baby. I want to give my baby up for adoption but am forced to raise her because her father refuses to allow it.

      1. 1.5.1
        Rachel Winter

        … and refuses to do the work. He enjoys some fun time with her and gets super grumpy if he has to do anything real which I don’t think is fair on her. She’s sweet but I wish a couple who actually wanted children could raise her. She (and I) would be better off. I’d like an open adoption to see how her life progresses but that’s it. I have no interest in raising her. I am a good but unhappy mother and she will never know that I don’t want her as my child.

        1. Karmic Equation

          Why don’t you just let daddy have her? I’m assuming you’re NOT married, right?

          If you are married, that’s obviously a different story.

        2. Gerry

          You  can  give her up for adoption. In Georgia at least, a father who was not legally married to the mother when the child was conceived or born, and who never married her, has no rights to the child.

          Contact a Georgia marriage and family relations lawyer for advice on establishing residence in Georgia or another state that is like that. If you are in a state that recognizes common law marriages begun in that state, do not cohabit with him. Don’t let him have any more intercourse with you. Deny ever having been his wife, or cohabiting with him. Casual sex when you maintain separate residences (different addresses on your driver licenses, different mailing addresses) doesn’t establish marriage at the common law.

        3. TrumanHW

          I think you’re awesome. Very intelligent proposition — and I’m sorry the asshole, though unwilling to assume total responsibility of the child, objects to the open adoption.

          I too have an unintended child. I don’t particularly like kids (perhaps dislike is more sincere).

          She’s 5, acts scared of me, is rude to me,  etc.

          Perhaps one day I’ll regard her as the best part of my life. WHO KNOWS??

          The mother is (quite honestly) a wonderful person. She’s absolutely honest with me. She’s patient. She asks for the amount of money that our daughter needs. It’s hard to imagine a more reasonable person who’d decide to keep the child. When she asked how I felt about it initially i said, “I want NOT to have children (active)”… and my trichotomy of preferences, in order are: Abortion, adoption and begrudgingly, because I have no choice in the matter, indentured fatherhood.

          On the other hand, I genuinely enjoy teaching. When she’s a little older, hopefully less defiant, and treats me with a modicum of respect, I could see enjoying teaching her how to make the world a fun place.

          But no, the laws are set up in a manner that is completely disrespectful to the autonomy of the man. The man should be permitted to post the cost of the abortion and utterly opt out. It’s a GOP lie that having sex represents the intent to have a child.

        4. Alexandra

          She know Rachel, she knows!
          Children, including babies are a lot more aware than we think, as humans we biologically connect on much deeper levels than it seems on the surface, a baby is hardwired to tune into its mother for survival as a species. You may not want to believe that she knows you don’t want her but she does and until you heal that within yourself she always will!

        5. Someone somewhere

          Unless you’re as good a mother as you claim and teach her to read… In which case she can read how you very publicly said you DON’T want your daughter. Just sayin’

      2. 1.5.2

        dump the brat with him

    6. 1.6

      How about a 32 year old divorced woman “accidentally” getting pregnant from my 23 year old son, who just graduated from college? now she is suing him for child support and has a right to get up to 60% of his income. she is ruining his life. And he cannot even see the baby, because she moved to another state.

      1. 1.6.1

        How about your son move to another country, maybe Canada or Japan,

        1. Gerry

          If a nation has a treaty with the US or is party to an inter-national convention that covers this matter, they will garnish his earnings or income on demand from the US. He will have little to no right to contest an unjust garnishment in such a nation. His argument is with the USA state’s court that issued the garnishment order.

      2. 1.6.2

        Why shouldn’t your son be accountable? Whether 60% of his income is fair or not is another issue. But he should be helping to support his own child. He has the right to see his child, if that’s what he wants. Regardless of what type of birth control one uses, there’s AWAYS a risk (no matter how small) of getting pregnant. Most people are unprepared to take the risks, yet they take them anyway. If you’re aware of the risks but unprepared to take them, then you shouldn’t be having sex. At least not intercourse. Intercourse is overrated anyway. There are so many other more creative ways to quench one’s libido. Maybe that’s what we should be teaching in sex education.

      3. 1.6.3

        You should’ve sex educated your son to never have sex with an MILF. But oh little boys will be boys as if abortion is the same as spilling sperm on a tissue or anywhere not vagina.

      4. 1.6.4

        There isn’t a single state in this entire country who’s child support guidelines require 60% of a persons income for the support of one child. It’s typically around 20%, and one quick google search would verify this. Instead, triple the number and make it outrageous, and your adult son is now a victim! Add an older ‘divorced’ woman to the story and now we have a predator that stole little johnnys precious seed, as part of her evil plan to become a single mother. Aaaaand she won’t let him see his own child for no reason at all, and visitation laws apply to every one but her.

        I can tell what’s wrong with your son…YOU.

        Not only have you crippled him by blaming everyone but him for his problems and not allowing him to take any responsibility for his actions,   you seem oblivious to your overbearing, codependent and frankly very creepy involvement in an adult mans life.

        I can see why the woman wanted to be far far away.



        1. Sylvana

          Exactly! If a man is that worried about a woman getting pregnant, either don’t have (vaginal) sex at all, or use a condom AND pull out.

    7. 1.7

      My son dated a woman for 7 months he broke it off with her said he needed space because he felt he could not committee to her since he had not gotten over his last long term relationship ! One week later she said she was 4 weeks pregnant!

      After she made him feel guilty as hell he decided to be noble and stay with her for the baby sake! She came to visit him (she was from out of state) and he treated her like a queen and really tried to show her love and support and he told her they would work it out for the baby ! He didn’t love her and if she had not said she was pregnant he would have been done with her!

      My son trying to force feelings and make it work for this baby GOT HER PREGNANT!!

      See she wasn’t really pregnant it was all a lie in order to get pregnant!

      My son figuring you can’t get a pregnant woman pregnant because she’s already pregnant!:( we have text messages, Facebook post, comments and more of her deception we have all the proof proving she set him up basically tricked him into getting her pregnant!

      Sick pathetic woman I feel he should be able to sue her for this! And get custody of the baby since she is such a shitty person and never once thought about bringing an innocent baby into broken relationship! She has no unconditional love what so ever for this child coming she only thought of her own selfish wants!

    8. 1.8

      Some choices cost you. When you have sex you should always know a baby can happen because that’s the MAIN function of intercourse. Its enjoyable as it should be, a baby is born from the shared love and enjoyable excitable bond during at which point you are a mother and a father. If you don’t want to be responsible or concern a women is using you for money DON’T HAVE SEX WITH HER. What ever you think the money is, its not a person present raising a child. Getting up in the middle of the night, Body changes that would cost how much to put together. Missed opportunities to go it alone with only a pay check to scare away the bogeyman the child is frighten of. If you are fortunate enough to make enough for your bogus half day job and paying a fraction to keep your seed growing then be thankful, money is not a substitute for a present father/mother. Most men do not even pay as much as a child cost to raise and don’t put in the same hours. Snip your stuff if you can’t control. Its common for a Man to chase a women for the chase and when she starts to belive the lies you spill, she sleeps with you and you lose interest because the chase is no longer there now what, you want to moveon to the next fun chase who wants to deal with a baby. Short sighted approach. I also like to point out that Car accidents can happen in a moment and you could pay for it for the rest of your life and lose a limb or two not 18 years.  When you get older a lot of men are thankful to have children that care about them in their older age, I know my Dad is and I’m thankful for him and my Mom everyday. They knew more with less and my generation can’t seem to figure things out.

      1. 1.8.1

        Well said. It seems like many of these comments are based upon past negative experiences with either relationships, pregnancy or raising children with strangers lol. However, these are the kinds of situations that come about when we promote a “hit it and quit it” society as opposed to one where sex and relationships are held sacred and being a role model & parent is taken much more seriously-why share your body and insert yourself in another person if you dont want marriage, commitment or children? This is the way it was intended lol. Everything constantly seems to feel like a battle of the sexes as opposed to healthy relating.

        1. There It Is

          I kept reading the article and the comments and was steadily getting angrier and angrier. I’m glad to know that some people have a wiser view of life. I agree that our society focuses on promiscuity and it has taken a toll on the way men treat women and vice versa.   A relationship between a man and woman should be regarded as something sacred and when it is abused…there will most definitely be trouble.


          But one thing I do not agree that any person (man or woman) should have the right to tell a woman to kill the child thats inside them.   Both for moral reasons and the possible issues that can arise from an abortion.   If the woman makes the choice because her life/health is in danger…thats a little different.

        2. Kathryn

          I wholeheartedly agree with your post.   Pregnancy is a possibility every time you have sex.   And no man since sex-ed started in school has the excuse of saying he didn’t know that it was such a high possibility from whatever they were doing.   If you don’t want to raise a child or be responsible for your actions, get snipped.   Or don’t lie about being snipped, or don’t pressure women into having unprotected sex.   Use condoms and other forms of birth control.   And don’t have sex with someone you aren’t willing to raise a child with.   Full time.   In the home.   As equals, and a family.

      2. 1.8.2

        blame the victim

      3. 1.8.3

        I agree. There is always a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. And unless you’re prepared to take that risk, you shouldn’t be having sex. Or at least not intercourse. I’m not suggesting abstinence. Although if one chooses that route, that’s their choice. I’m just saying there are many other, more interesting ways to quench one’s libido.

        But the troubling message I took away from this article is that having the option to relinquish one’s parental responsibilities is more important than their child potentially being fatherless, motherless, or both, and dependent on taxpayers. Where the hell did we go wrong?

      4. 1.8.4

        but that does not fellow as women also consent to sex but are not forced into consenting to parenthood like men are as women have options after they are pregnant hell they have opitons even after the baby is born like adoption and safe haven laws unlike men

        so by your logic no more abortions,adoptions or safe haven laws when a women has sex she consents to being pregnant and being a mother just like the man did when he had sex see that would be fair and equal

        but if you want to keep abortions then the one with the choice you know the women who has the option should pay for her choice not force a man into it against his will as that is unequal and unfair

    9. 1.9

      Not replying to you. Just to this post. Just clicked on yours because it’s on top. But anyways. The issue here is simple.

      All women are equal to all women. All men are equal to all men. But the truth is. The government won’t ever admit that men are the under dogs. They will always just assure us that it’s equal. But the whole world knows it’s not.

      There is no other possible way to ensure that the children are being taken care of other than giving one parent (the birth giver)   supreme power over the other by financial harnessing the father’s income.

      Is it unfair? Yes completely. But the problem being resolved is so simple.

      Yes in high school we are taught sex Ed and anatomy. But not the law n rights of mother’s and father’s.

      Boys n girls need a seperate course which explains the non-equality in having children. The statistics of father’s who pay mother’s. N vice versa . Also not paying and going to jail or getting wage garnishes. And how there will never be equality because one parent always must be the primary parent no matter what.

      They need to betaught this at a young age.

      I had a child young and tried to start a family. I did not know the unfairness.

      My ex left me for someone else . We shared custody but her friends convinced her that if she had full she could get money from me.

      Long storshort. I virtually had no rights. I legally couldn’t put my child in sports. Sign any legal documents on my child’s be half. Or even pick her up from school with out the mothers permission. I couldn’t get a health card. I litlery couldn’t do anything n it took 5 years just to get my ex to sign a document stating I was the father. Even revenue Canada demanded all sorts of proof that I’m my child’s father. A DNA test wasn’t enough.


      But if I was taught at a young age about all the hundreds of hoops a father has to jump through just to be a father.

      I would of rather had a vicectamy at birth




    10. 1.10
      Leslie lindsay

      Agree. So many people in this world use their children to extort money from the more wealthy and even as as stepping stone to popularity. I’m almost to the point that there should be a legal document both parties sign relieving each party of responsibility if pregnancy occurs. I’m sure there is lawyer or two that could make it available, for say, fifty bucks. That might make you think about who you sleep with.

      1. 1.10.1

        I totally agree. My son had a one night stand while drunk and two weeks before the child was born she showed stating that she is 99.9 percent sure that the baby is his. My son wore a condom even she admitted that but says that she thinks it broke. Now he facing a paternity test and possibly a baby he never wanted. The problem I have with all of this is that he never had a choice. And all the girl and her mother is concerned with is my son paying child support without even knowing whether or not the child is his yet.

        I am definitely in favor of laws that support the fathers rights to a say of whether or not he wants the child.

        Praying my son is not the father.

        1. Callie

          Your son absolutely had a choice, and that was not to have sex with this woman. Protection doesn’t always protect, we all know that (and if we don’t, we need to learn that quick). Choosing to have sex with someone is choosing to accept the risks that go along with that. Doesn’t matter if the odds are in your favour, it’s still a risk.

          That being said, I do hope he’s not the father because both him and you seem to be rather fond of placing all the blame on the woman and shirking all responsibilities, and I can’t think of what kind of role model either of you will be.

          Consensual sex involves choices that two people make. Your son made a decision. Just like she did. If he’s the father I hope he’ll do the responsible thing and be in that child’s life and not blame it or punish it for the choices its parents made.

        2. Sylvana

          As Callie said, your son absolutely had a choice. A choice not to sleep with her, AND the choice to not spill his seed inside of her, condom or not.

          The woman didn’t wait until he passed out and then extracted his sperm somehow and inseminated herself with it.

          So he is not a victim

      2. 1.10.2

        Child support is owed to the child, not to the mother. If the state is providing the money, it turns around and attempts to make the sperm donor reimburse the state but the money ultimately goes to the child, with (usually) the mother or foster parent the trustee.

        1. clary

          then the state should pay as they had as much say in if the child was born as the father did which is zero say

    11. 1.11

      Succinctly said. I couldn’t have said it better.

    12. 1.12

      I’m a woman and I actually agree.

    13. 1.13
      Parrish Hill

      Here is my story very brief, I ended up have a kid with a woman, I told literally to her face that “I am not ready to be a father” and in her words were “I am not getting rid of this one” And in my defense I told her ” a kid doesn’t make anyone stick with you.” and she told me I could leave, so I did and I found someone new I have been with for eight long years and are now married but she still tries to sabotage my life, not only by money, but my relationship, she is literally mad I have someone else. She got with someone else and she had a baby with him and left then came looking for me again.

      Now mind you she were claiming to take birth control because “we” didn’t want a kid, so I thought. I guess she had other plan’s.   she not only stop taking them but she were tampering with condoms because twice it had broke and when I stop doing things with her it was to late, thus leading to the response I got. I don’t know if its my fault but I let her know I don’t want a kid and she had still did it anyway, and for 6 years child support has been down my throat. Her family has threatened me and other things like my wife, and crap ton of more BS, That I won’t mention. I Just think some women are mental and sometimes it isn’t just the money, but its the thought of still being involved with their ex counter part, or the person that gave them the best night of their life.   I think some women are just sick.

  2. 2
    Sparkling Emerald

    I will probably earn the wrath of most (maybe even all) of the women on this blog, but I think there are very few pregnancies that are really and truly “accidents”.   I did read an article (maybe it was through this blog, or perhaps another) where women admitted to stealing sperm.   Poking holes in condoms, or fishing them out of the bathroom garbage can and inseminating themselves.   UGH !   Not trying to “blame the victim” here (victim being the man who had his sperm stolen) but men should treat their condoms like parachutes and pack their own.   NEVER take a condom offered by the woman.   And never let the woman handle the disposal.   Dispose them by FLUSHING them.   Never take a woman’s word that she is on BC.   Unless you watch her take that pill every morning or x-ray her uterus for an IUD, you have no control over her BC habits.   Just smile and say you want to keep both of you safe and use a condom as BC backup and protection against STDs. If she balks, you should walk.
    I have listened (biting my tongue) to women explain how they “accidently” got pregnant.   One woman (with whom I had a business relationship) told me how she “forgot” to take one of her pills.   She thought “oops, I’ll just take 2 tomorrow.”   Then the next day she “forgot” again, so she CALLED HER MOM for advice.   (I would have called my Dr, but I think she picked a grandma-wanna-be in order to here what she wanted to hear) What did grandma-wanna-be advise her to do ?   Oh, just stop taking her pills until her next cycle and start over.   Her next cycle was ten days away.   So this woman proceeds to tell me that she stopped taking her pills, thinking “she wouldn’t get pregnant” and just waited for her period to come and go, and start over.   I did ask her if she used back up birth control   (which is what a DR would recommend, until she got back on track with her pills) and she said no, because she “didn’t think she’d become pregnant”.   I did press her on this and asked her why she thought that, and she said because she’d “only” be off her pills for ten days.   To make a long story even longer 🙂   her   next period didn’t come for over a year, instead along came a beautiful baby boy.   Baby boy’s father did marry   her, and they went on to have another (I think they planned that one)and they actually did seem fairly happy together, so at least her “accidently on purpose” baby had a happy ending.   Not all shot guns babies are so lucky.
    This is just one of many “accidental baby” stories I have heard, they all seem to have an element of “I didn’t think I could get pregnant” in them.   (Why the hell not, you have ovaries, he has sperm, you mix them together, what do you think you’ll get ?????)
    One of my close girlfriend kept asking me when I was going to have a baby with my 2nd ex husband and when I told her I was waiting until we were married and we BOTH decided to start a family.   She just said Pfffft and told me “You know how to say WHOOPS !”.   I told her I would NEVER deliberately make a “Whoopsy Baby” and she laughed and just said, “Oh, why do insist on waiting until everything is just perfect ?”
    I think in some cases men go along with the “accident” too, there might even be cases of men tampering with condoms to trap a woman with his child, and of course cases where BC was carefully and consistently used and a baby resulted.
    As for the solution, I have NO IDEA.   Punishing men for being tricked into unwilling fatherhood, rewarding women for setting traps, or what to do when two people really and truly have an accident . . .   I don’t have a solution.   All I know is that the person who is 100% innocent in this scenario is the one who has the most potential for suffering.

    1. 2.1

      I have also observed this.   It’s liberal crap.   Most of the girls/women I’ve seen do this are poor and they have no skills to support themselves and somehow they think someone else should support their broke selves.   Whereas most of the rest of us have to work hard, get educated and bust our butts to make a living and support our families.

      You are absolutely correct, never trust a woman especially one you haven’t known for long.   Bring your own birth control.   Flush it.   Don’t trust that she’s on the pill, iud, nuva ring or whatever.   If you’re willing and not interested in having children ever, get the snip.   It’s a quick out-patient.

      It is truly sad that we have sociopaths that will go to this level to game the system.   All they’re doing is bringing human beings into the world that are going to have crappy lives and create problems for other people and it’s all out of complete selfishness.   Digusting.  

      1. 2.1.1

        The only problem with gettin the snip, is depending where you live. Here in Canada they won’t do it if your under 30 or if you don’t have children, cause they think you’ll change your mind. I’ve never wanted kids although now I have 3 ( don’t get me wrong I love them, but I never wanted them) it’s about time for society to stop being apathetic to women all the time, they aren’t always the victims

        1. stella living good

          More often than not guys are the victims to these manipulate girls

        2. Anon

          You are not a victim f you are having sex willingly.   Which is more than most “accidentally” pregnant women can say.   Nearly every one of the young women I knew who ended up pregnant, became that way through forcible rape.   Whether it was an acquaintance or friend who took advantage of them at a party, or a “boyfriend” who thought it would be fun to live out his “fantasies” of forcing himself on a woman without telling her first to make it more realistic.   Maybe I just grew up in a shitty part of the US.   But I literally don’t know any woman I was friends with after high school who WILLINGLY got pregnant.   Including myself.   No matter what my baby’s daddy and his family says to keep his rapist ass out of prison.

        3. Karmic Equation


          Have the baby, then, and give it up for adoption, or be a single mom. Don’t chase him for child support. Why should he be stuck paying for your conscience?


        4. Things that make you go hmmm

          Why is this only about what’s fair for the man or woman?

          Interesting that few here have even mentioned the resulting children and what’s best for them. It’s all about what’s best for the parents who think consequences can be removed from sex once they become inconvenient.

          This is being an adult, my friends. If you can not use birth control responsibly and accept the consequences of your actions, please stop fucking. We do not need anymore unwanted children from fatherless homes filling up the prisons.

          Ann, assuming you’re one of the .1 percent of people who’s birth control legitimately failed, this is not directed at you.

        5. Twominuteplank

          Not true. I and child-free and live in Canada. I got a vasectomy at age 28. My GP didn’t want to write the referral even though it’s my right to have one. She(!) said “come back in a month and if you still want it I will write the referral” (imagine for a moment the s***storm that would have gone down if she said something similar to a woman, but I digress…). I returned in a month and she still wouldn’t write the referral. I threatened to take her to the Board of Physicians and Surgeons (who administer discipline to doctors behaving unethically or unlawfully) and she immediately complied. Two weeks later I was snipped – and courtesy of the taxpayers of my province, no less!

          So, yeah, you can get one. You just have to stand up for yourself.

          This one issue is why I will never be a feminist – they advocate women have 100% control of reproductive rights and that men have 0%, yet that the responsibilities of having a child be shared. It’s absurd.

          These are the options following insemination:
          1) woman wants the child, man wants the child: woman wins, man wins.
          2) woman doesn’t want the child, man doesn’t want the child: woman wins, man wins.
          3) woman wants the child, man doesn’t: woman wins, man loses.
          4) woman doesn’t want the child, man does: woman wins, man loses.

          There is nothing even approaching “equality” in those equations.

          That my vasectomy was 21 years ago, by the way, and I haven’t regretted it once. Get one!

      2. 2.1.2
        stella living good

        Good old fashioned in secure female manipulation (and it has no consideration for the surprised, ambushed of the father to be …
        Bingo!!! Male financial dependence guaranteed just by the wonderful skill of being able to “get” pregnant.

        1. ann

          This is noncence.I am 29 I was on the pill.Using condoms..I was the one making the guy use precautions.However I found out I was pregnant.Were were not together just seeing each other for a couple of months.Ive found out Im pregnant and I just cannot bring myself to termintate.I work hard have my flat I don’t need anything from this guy.However I know the circumstances are not great,ideal at all.Does this mean this is a justifiable reason for me to kill my 12 week baby growing inside of me.If I was to terminate it would destroy me.I have become attached.Its against my principles.

      3. 2.1.3

        I agree with you! We are going through this hell now.

      4. 2.1.4

        Yes, it sucks that women do this. But when you have intercourse, that’s the risk you take. Whether it’s a ripped condom, a missed pill, or a psycho woman tricking you into impregnating her, you SHOULD be aware of ALL these risks. If you aren’t, you shouldn’t be having intercourse. If you’re aware of of the risks and are prepared to take them, then go nuts.

        Unfortunately, when it comes to sex, the phrase “buyer beware” definitely applies.

        FYI, intercourse is only one of many other sexual activities you can engage in, AND WITHOUT RISK!!! Intercourse is overrated. Get creative and keep your money.

        1. Sylvana

          Very true. As long as you chooses to have vaginal intercourse, you choose to take on the risk of the woman getting pregnant. End of story.

        2. clary

          say that to women so no more abortion then as once she has sex she is out of luck see that would be fair something you know nothing about as in a fair would the one who gets the choice shoud pay for that choice not push it onto the one without a say to pay for your choice

          as why not make the state pay for the baby as they had the same amount of say in if the baby was born as the father did which was zero say

    2. 2.2
      J. Tavarez

      Sure, some men admit to doing those things as well, even lying about vasectomy only to have sex without condoms. Still most men and women obviously don’t do that, and unwanted pregnancies unfortunately happen often.
      In fact, I also believe women should just tell men that intercourse is out of the game. Intercourse isn’t something that brings orgasm to the vast marjority of women anyways, so that’s pretty much dispensable. Without intercourse, much, but much less unwanted pregnancies will occur.

      1. 2.2.1

        Honey, this is 2016. Of course intercourse brings orgasms for women silly bird LMFAO. This is the age of the feminine, sexually prowess woman. Not more little trudy prudies who can’t be a real woman. Get your head out of the 1950s silly rabbit. Tricks are for kids. Women are just as sexual as men and just as visual.  

        1. David

          I think all he’s saying is that you don’t HAVE to have intercourse There are so many other ways to quench your libido.

          And where are you getting the idea that intercourse is somehow required to be a REAL women? A little creativity can go a long way.

        2. Sylvana

          That was rather uncalled for, Aurora. What does being a sexual, visual woman have to do with the fact that even those who are (like me), have a hard time reaching orgasm from simple intercourse

          Maybe you’re one of the lucky ones. I, for one, am about as sexually open and adventurous as anyone can be, that doesn’t automatically guarantee me to have an orgasm during intercourse.

          Not to mention just the fact that J. Tavarez mentioned intercourse and orgasm kind of hints toward being all that “Trudy prudy”.

        3. Aurora

          Sylvana, all I’m saying is that thinking most women cannot achieve   through intercourse is crazy. Most women who know their bodies can easily do so. It’s called a vaginal orgasm. Clit doesn’t even need to be involved. He is still stuck in the 1950s, thinking that sex is something a women gives and something a man gains (orgasm).

          Men are adults and are perfectly capable of saying no to sex. It is no more pleasurable for men than it is for women. All I’m saying is stop putting it all on the woman as if we’re the gatekeepers of sex. Men are supposed to be grown people that are totally aware of the consequences of sex if bc were to fail.

          A man should be able to resist a woman being all over him, trying to tempt him into sex. The man who resists is more of a grown up than the man who allows himself to be taken.

      2. 2.2.2


        I actually think men are the ones most responsible for unwanted pregnancy. Considering they are the ones depositing their bodily fluids (sperm) inside of the woman’s body, which then actually travels through her body to find her eggs. She doesn’t force her eggs into his body to find his sperm. The person with all the control over the MOBILE half of the pregnancy producing ingredient needs to pay the upmost attention of where that stuff is going — in order to avoid the fatal collision.

        I also fully agree that men are fully capable of saying no to sex and fully capable of resisting. But simply choose not to. But their bodies aren’t affected by pregnancy and childbirth, so – sadly and inexcusably – it’s easier to overlook the consequences there.

        And yes – women are absolutely just as sexual and visual as men. As a matter of fact, most high-drive women are actually MORE sexual than men.

        That being said, I still don’t know what being a sexually prowess woman has to do with reaching an orgasm during intercourse. Intercourse involves a man providing the stimulation. How well SHE knows her body has absolutely nothing to do with how well HE is able (or cares) to stimulate it. SHE’s not the one doing the stimulating.

        Even a man can’t reach orgasm without the right stimulation, or if the stimulation doesn’t last long enough. It just so happens that a lot of men require a lot less stimulation than your average woman.

        You might be one of the lucky women who can easily reach vaginal orgasm. But for the majority of women, even highly sexual ones, that’s not the case. That’s why you’ll often see highly sexual women having sex with two or more men at a time, or switching partners frequently.

        Your kind of thinking does nothing but enable men to not put much effort into pleasing their partners. Since a “real woman” should be able to get off even if he just flops around in there with a back and forth motion for a while.

        Overall, how sexual or sexually demanding you are has absolutely nothing to do with how well your partner will be able to or willing to actually meet those demands.

    3. 2.3

      Since you’re not a woman, it can (maybe) be forgiven that you don’t see the other side of this coin. Here’s the ugly truth … men HATE wearing condoms. Seriously, they REALLY, REALLY hate them. Women don’t generally mind them all that much. I’d bet big money that, if you took a survey of all the folks who had an “accidental pregnancy,” the greatest percentage (by far) of those who failed to use birth control did it because the guy pressured the girl to let him have sex without using a condom. I cannot tell you how many guys I knew of in college who would try to talk girls into letting them go Commando “just this once.” Men can be very convincing when they are determined and pleasure during intercourse seems to be highly important to a lot of men, until the consequences come knocking on their doors.

      1. 2.3.1

        So you tell them no sex without a condom or it’s a no go.

        So simple, guys are convincing but when you just.. oh I don’t no.. Have a spine and tell him to hit the road, that argument goes out the door.

      2. 2.3.2

        There is that disposition — and it’s one women would understand…… if only through empathy: To appreciate men’s preference, women should wear a piece of plastic over their clit that is sufficiently large and thick to dull sensation by about 60%.


        I don’t mean to suggest that men shouldn’t wear them, responsibly. But it’s too bad that the structures of the genitals are what they are — because if men had external clits instead of a penis — then we’d probably be able to reduce procreation on this planet by like 70+ percent.



        1. Rocky

          “if men had external clits instead of a penis – then we’d probably be able to reduce procreation on this planet by like 70+ percent.”

          You could still do that if men stopped forcing themselves on women either physically or through social and economic structures. Or if you made them go childbirth pain (machines exist for that now) and do half the childcare.

        2. Gerry

          Rocky, what do you think of the sperm donor (“daddy”) being present during childbirth, then when the brat begins to crown, taze him in the balls and hold the “zap!” button down until the kid is all the way out?

          Women do generate a LOT of adrenaline and oxytocin during birthing but we can’t make everything perfectly equal!

      3. 2.3.3

        Gender-specific strategies  have nothing to do with the anatomical structures and everything to do with the relationship typical between parent child (not child-parent, but specifically, which parent has higher interest in the child)… and which parent pays a GUARANTEED  price for procreation.

        So I will repeat what I said to the initial ignoramus who thinks that the different willingness of each gender to use condoms is bizarre; SINCE the primary pleasure region on women is NOT  adversely effected by a condom, OF COURSE they should ALWAYS want men to wear them… and yet, even when the region that is statistically of lower importance is adversely effected, even WOMEN don’t like them.

        One wonders then, why women ever have sex without a condom?! Given that it’s the secondary pleasure  area… you add mess, increase the risk of men being unable to control their orgasm, and have a near infinitely larger likelihood of pregnancy!? Right?

        Because the psychological potential for pregnancy is integral [to] sex. And even as only a secondary erogenous zone, the vaginal canal is still sufficiently stimulating to cause women to have a bias as to which feels better.

        Now take AI’s stupid response above… where she acts like it’s PURELY for men. Think — does every reader here [strongly disagree with, have neutral data for, or strongly agree with…] her claim that women have no preference for the feeling of sex with vs. without a condom??? (The premise is so stupid it nearly answers itself, but once every male here who has a partner list above 3 thinks about it we’ll all realize that it’s overwhelmingly the fact that 2/3rds of women, at minimum, regard no condom to feel better.

        Yes, men do get slightly more out of it… but you know who else gets [slightly] more out of circumstances? women. Women get more out of relationships and having children than men do. IF THEY DIDN’T THERE WOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS CHILD SUPPORT NOR ALIMONY … stupid.

        And yet, even in the case you’re talking about, men’s alleged selfishness of “no condom sex” … EVEN THEN, the negotiation is one in which both partners benefit. BUT, of mere happenstance is the fact that the process of protecting against procreation HAPPENS to more drastically impair the sensation for the male. BUT, because you’re a selfish twit, this never enters your mind.

        Now, to represent the point that show empathy and comprehension of the interests and concerns for women:

        While men may or may not assume parental roles… if children occur, women WILL be pregnant, which virtually incapacitated them, historically (over evolutionary time-frames).

        And, because so much more was at stake, females  who had hormones that regulated their behaviors to bond them to their offspring were those that fared best, evolutionarily, for such a long list of reasons it’d be onerous to itemize.

        The byproduct of that fact is that women have adopted an economic strategy that reflects this vulnerability (more often than) not and to the extent they don’t, is predicted BY their hormone profile, even prior to having children.

        There’s no end to the  variation of strategies which can be successful in nature or each gender.


    4. 2.4

      You’re making it sound like it’s only women that do this. Men do too. I have an amazing son out of this situation and if I weren’t careful many other times (by and not ruling out successful men) it could have happened several times and I had to stop seeing these guys as they deliberately wanted to and even told me so. One child was enough for me evendough me and his father were in a 5 year relationship prior to this. These things must be planned by both parties. This was before I got married. That’s why I married a man that was snipped.   So, let’s not make it as if it’s only women. BOTH do it for whatever reason, but the accent being on both.

  3. 3

    While I certainly don’t advocate ‘punishing’ anybody for choices they make within the law (I agree that current legislation discriminates unfairly against men), there is an assumption in this article that a person choosing to engage in sexual intercourse is somehow a victim of circumstance; ie. Some people just get drunk and forget and it’s not their fault etc…. I don’t deny that this type of scenario occurs, but I challenge the ideologies of societies which do nothing to question the mindless use of our bodies – a phenomenon prevalent in the US and my country (UK) – and the misplaced sense of entitlement on both sides (men and women) which frequently accompanies the consequences which follow.   

  4. 4

    Abstinence doesn’t require that we have to discuss promiscuity.  
    But often times we are all required to “pay” for our mistakes, fair or not! Pull up your adult undies and accept the consequences for your actions. You weren’t complaining while getting laid!

    1. 4.1

      A moment of sexual gratification and accepting to be responsible for a human being for a lifetime are two completely different things. How would you like to be forced into a situation that you wouldn’t want, but have to because some selfish asshole dragged you into a situation. Unfortunately, no such thing exists for you women so you’re gonna continue to justify your selfishness with illogical statements such as “Pull up your adult undies and accept the consequences for your actions”

      1. 4.1.1

        Actually both men and women are responsible for a child once it is born. A woman can have an abortion because the government can’t interfere when a woman decides to have a medical procedure due to doctor-patient confidentiality. Since a fetus is inside of a woman and abortion is considered a medical procedure the government can’t interfere.

        Saying a man shouldn’t be responsible for a child b/c a woman has the choice to have an abortion is borderline idiotic. 1. They are two completely separate issues, 2. It’s easier to walk away from a child knowing that child is alive compared to making the decision to end a life, 3. Forcing women to solely care for a child will either severely punish women or pressure them to undergo a medical procedure they don’t want.

        In conclusion:

        1. Men and women are equally responsible for a living child.
        2. Abortion and child support 2 completely different issues.

        Also, a man is considered to be a good father if he simply cuts a check every month for a few hundred dollars (if that). I cut several checks every month to pay my bills. It takes all of 5 minutes. That’s hardly taking responsibility for a human being for a lifetime.

        1. Ted

          “Also, a man is considered to be a good father if he simply cuts a check every month for a few hundred dollars (if that).”

          um, you may want to check your figures. I pay just shy of 1000.00 a month, *plus* cover my son on my insurance.


          one kid, over a grand a month.



        2. Outlawzero

          Another problem is that women can just give kids up for adoption and abdicate all of their responsibilities no questions askex but men cannot. Women do not need to provide the father to abdicate responsibility but men must provide the mother. There are even   casses where the women gave a child up and the father tried to get custody and could not. There is a man like that who has been fighting for custody of his daughter from the state of Utah for years now because the mother put her up for adoption. Even if he succedes in getting custody he would be unlikely to win support from the mother because she gave up the child and every aspect of reproductive law is about reducing a males reproductive rights while freeing women from all responcibility if they choose.

        3. nina

          Ted, you are lucky! My son has to pay $2000. And his income is $54000 a year. It is more than a half of his income. For one “accident” child. And he was not even married to her. He was 23, she was 32, previously divorced. Fooled him by not using pills, while he thought she did.

        4. Mia

          Its not idiotic because a man CAN’T just walk away because the woman will be looking for child support. If she claims he’s the father and a court ORDERS a paternity test, he’s in the hook. Period. Women have the power in this situation.

        5. Aurora

          Well said!

      2. 4.1.2
        J. Tavarez

        You are the only illogical mess here.
        Abortion is on thing, a child/supporting it after birth is another.
        That only women gets to decide about abortion only means that biology is difference, it’s nothing to do with double standards. Only women get to decide abortions because of biology; after a child is born both are equally responsible. That a woman decided to have a baby even though the man or even herself didn’t want it in the first place isn’t selfishness. Even if it were, it doesn’t erase that both are responsible anyways, and both made it happen, together.

        1. Gerry

          The imposition on men who have no natural, biological responsibility for what sperms do, or what another person does with them, once the sperms have left the man’s body, of responsibility absent any consent on his part, is unjust. It further degrades marriage, which in large part was established to protect women and their children from the natural consequences of their nature, their biology.
          Formerly, a man could agree to accept responsibility for the results of giving his sperms to any number of women. The Romans changed that in the interest of simplifying inheritance. This Roman law was adopted by the emerging Catholic Church, carried on by the Protestants, and, as the churches were disestablished, by the civil governments.
          As feminists and socialists have gained influence, the condition that marriage is required for a man to be held responsible for what a woman does with sperms he gave to her has been virtually abolished. A major, if not the chief, reason for marriage has been, in only a few years, swept away as it were by a wave of the hand.

        2. Al

          Gerry, those sperm didn’t arbitrarily burst out all on their own and surreptitiously impregnate the women without the guy’s knowledge. And the men wouldn’t be at all complicit in the rise of casual sex, right? Oh no, let’s just blame everything on those “Feminists and Socialists” so that men can continue doing whatever they like without accepting any responsibility for their own choices and actions. Equality does mean fairness, and I can see why some people feel this isn’t fair. However, adults are responsible for their choices. Period. Feminists aren’t out there forcing men to have unprotected sex outside of matrimony. Men are quite happily playing a part in all that fornication.

        3. Twominuteplank

          It is illogical (and illiberal) to make a decision on one’s own and expect another person to be held accountable for it.

          No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that it makes no sense, and is in opposition to any imaginable definition of “equality”, except as it is defined by feminists.

          These are the same feminists, of course, who believe equality means that if an adult male and adult female get drunk and hook up, the male is to be held responsible for his actions, and the female not held accountable for hers. It’s completely absurd.

    2. 4.2
      stella living good

      So true!

      1. 4.2.1

        To “Al”: In a given sexual incident the man does not know what the sperms he gave to the woman are doing, and in particular what a specific sperm out of several hundred million is doing. He also does not know what the woman is doing with the sperms.
        The way men have accepted responsibility has been to marry a woman before donating sperms to her. If she is willing to accept his sperms, or to take a chance that she will receive them, she should be prepared to take responsibility for what she (her autonomic processes) do with them.
        Not a perfect example, but one that comes to mind: if I give or sell a car to someone “AS IS – NO WARRANTY” and they come back to complain about what the car did (or, for that matter, didn’t), they have no legal basis. I have the option to help them out but I don’t have to do anything. Only if I wilfully concealed a defect or deficiency may I possibly be held liable.
        A corollary in the sexual area might be that a man claimed to be sterile and wasn’t, and knew it, or that he negligently gave her a STD when he knew he was infected.
        But if she is impregnated, that’s what sperms and fucking are supposed to do, folks. It’s like complaining that the engine of the car runs and makes the car go. Once the donee or buyer takes possession, what happens following is, or should be, her bag.
        Womenfolk, put on your big girl panties.

        1. Janelle

          If a man doesnt know what his sperm is doing how is a woman responsible for knowing?   She can’t control them either.

          She also can’t control her eggs or when she’s ovulating.

          Perhaps a good idea would be for men and women be responsible for for keeping eggs and sperm separate, together, but keeping them separate.


          It’s easy.




    3. 4.3

      True but that’s why this discussion is taking place, if we get enough people to see the other side of it maybe laws can be changed and a man will be able to tell you to put on your adult undies and take care of the baby YOU are choosing to bring into the world…also make me a sandwich and take this Dick

  5. 5

    Interesting article and I have to say I agree with what the author is saying, in the case of unmarried/noncohabitating couples.   
    However in the case of a married couple, contrary to what has been posted here, yes accidental pregnancies do occur, more often then a lot of women would and men would like.   Let us not forget that birth control is not 100%.   If your married, take responsibility for your actions which might include children.    And let me say for all women kind, that the vast majority of us do not want an accidentaly pregnancy anymore then men do ( and I’ve heard my fair share of stories of men wanting to get their girlfriends pregnant to keep them around, it works both ways folks).   

  6. 6

    If you can’t pay the prize for the possible outcome of your intercourse, whether you are a man or a woman, you shouldn’t be having intercourse.

    1. 6.1

      I agree with this sentiment. While men may be driven by sex; women are not. It is both parties responsibility to take precautions. but that’s just what they are- precautions. No non-married partners should be having sex unprotected. That’s a  no-brainer. The simplest method: Condoms.   When/if a pregnancy occurs…has anyone paid any mind to the heated topic of abortion? It’s not as easy as 1-2-3. Don’t sleep with someone you didn’t respect enough to contemplate a potential life with. Is that easy? No. Neither are any of the other options.

      1. 6.1.1

        I’m not sure what you mean be men are driven by sex and women are not. That sounds like a sexist fallacy you’re applying to an entire gender based on your own feelings/perceptions.  

        Don’t assume every woman is exactly the same. Don’t assume every man is exactly the same.

      2. 6.1.2

        What BS! Both genders are the same mentally. It is stupid to think anything else. Both like seed exactly the same, just because society and media try to deny women want it as much, does not make such nonsense truth! Also it is an absolute LIE that all female humans love babies and children and have an in born needed to nurture them. HELL no. I am a39 year old woman who has hated children my entire life. Even as a child couldn’t stand others my she. I knew by agree 12 I never want a child ever. Never changed my mind and only grew more true in time. I had my tubes tied by age 26, so it is done younger than 30 in the USA. I haven’t regretted it for one second. I hate hearing babies stupid noise and crying. I think all people under the age of mine are ugly but babies look repulsive, I have no desire not needed to care. When they cry I feel no nurturing instinct, I feel complete rage like shut that thing UP . Before my sterilization I was rapped once and had a baby as a result and have him up for adoption because I didn’t want him. That’s the solution right there ADOPTION. There’s a third choice other than abort or keep. Why does everyone forget that fact? I think all unwanted babies ought to be adopted our to someone who actually wanted them. And of course I think the guy who never wanted the thing should never need to support it at all. Why? Because the mother has to easy to leave or escape, she cannot avoid caring for the baby? Ummm, ADOPT it out. There’s your answer for both parents. Why should people even be legally allowed to keep unwanted babies, or allowed to ever have more than two in the first place? I cannot comprehend why anyone has even one child, all it is is hassles, financial ruin, loss of all freedoms and relationship. No thanks! I totally get why some guys hate kids or just never want them, because I am female and Ferrell exactly the same way. I do not get how more people of both genders don’t think that way. What does it even get you? Unconditional love is a lie and a myth, there are always conditions. Get a pet people.I know someone going to go of any my post here and start in on me, but of well I don’t care and most likely will never return here to even read what you had to say. I just had to speak my mind because I’m so sick of generalizations abt the genders. All women want children and so badly that there willing to lie SBT BC, or try to ” trap” guys? no NO NO. If you’re like that you needed to be forced sterilized by law. Women exist that despise children because I am one of them. And I know many others too. We talk amongst ourselves. A lot of people just breed to fit in, or because they think that’s what y you’re supposed to do and had to be your life’s plan. no.just no. I’m now 39, never had and kept a child, never married bit live in a long term relationship with a guy who also wants no child. I can do as I please, come and go any hour, Kerri all money for myself and him or only share if I decide to, never forced to. Having no child is wonderful. I thank whoever rules the universe every night, that I have not Bern burdened with offspring. I cannot comprehend why more humans do not also live that way. Children serve no purpose. Population and human continuation? We have took many humans already on Earth. Limited to one child each we’d still go on as a species just fine and stop all the population issues also. Some new laws that make sense ought to be made. Laws now make NO sense. Drugs are illegal but having ten children you hate and treat badly just to left from the system is legal

        1. starthrower68

          So I should kill my kids? Damn, that will put a damper on my son’s wedding this summer.

        2. Gerry

          A man agrees to contribute to the support of a child by marrying the woman before he impregnates her. Women should not pretend that they don’t know or understand how they get pregnant. Women know the basics of their reproductive biology. If they want to have sex without requiring the man to formally enter into marriage, they should bear the risk.
          If a woman is forcibly raped then things are different. If the man is adjudicated in civil court of forcible rape, he should then be on the hook.A conviction in criminal court should not be necessary.
          Competence is a challenge. Mentally deficient people ahould not be denied rhe right to have sex if they can find a willing partner. Yet they may not understand the connection between sex and babies. They may not understand how to care for them if they bear them.  

        3. Gerry

          Thank you, dear. Besides the one child you blessed by giving, uh, it to some people who wanted  a child, you will not pass on your shortage of natural affection either by training or genes. I wrote “shortage” because you showed that you have more than many by carrying your child to term and seeing that s/he was cared for instead of taking the “easy” way out.
          Someone has a life because you cared.  

    2. 6.2

      Different respondents bring up what men  ought  to do when they father a child, in or out of wedlock.

      The question is:

      Should Men Be  Forced  to Pay For Children They Didn’t Want?

      Forced,  or coerced,  is not the same as  ought to.  Forced means the government takes away the putative or proven father’s money, his property, his freedom or his life if he doesn’t pay what the judge orders. That is the subject of this blog. The quoted article sets the tone.

      For the state to promise to women, girls, females capable of reproduction, that the state will make him pay “or else” (“your money or your life – and we’ll get your money if you’re dead”), practically offers them funding for getting pregnant and giving birth. Anything that someone offers to pay [enough] for will be supplied. Demand and supply. The more is offered, the more will be supplied.

      1. 6.2.1


    3. 6.3

      Agree but what about this analogy:


      You pay vehicle insurance(contraceptive)  fatefully. You are hit by a driver that runs. You have documented proof of insurance but the company folds. Should you not drive, even if precautions were taken, because you can’t possibly cover all potential expenses that a vehicle can cause?

      1. 6.3.1

        I can answer that easily. You can either not drive, or accept that there might be financial responsibilities as a result of an accident.

        How do I know?

        I paid insurance faithfully. Got hit by an uninsured driver. Despite uninsured motorist and other coverage, the costs of the accident (including medical bills, etc.) far acceded what the insurance company paid (the company didn’t even have to fold).

        I’ve been paying off the debt for the past 15 years. And will be paying it for quite a few more.

        So – guess what? Since I DID choose to take the risk of driving, I’ve been paying for the consequences for 15 years. Why should a man who spilled his sperm inside a vagina be different?

  7. 7

    WOW!   I have to say this one pushes some buttons.   I have seen the view from both sides.   I have seen good guys that I care about pay and pay and pay and have little or no say in the raising of their child/ children.   I have seen the “accidental” pregnancies and the consequences.   It is pretty ugly!
    Then I have seen the view from the other side up close and personal.   My daughter was no accident.   She was planned and agreed upon… I guess he changed his mind.   After running up debt in my name he left me to raise her alone.   I have never seen a single penny from him.   I am no longer angry but I will tell you that even if she hadn’t been born disabled and didn’t have all the issues that she has it still would have been hard to raise her alone.  
    The most difficult thing about that was that no one had my back.   I was in it alone and I knew it.   That fear that was always there just below the surface that I wouldn’t be able to pay the bills and put food on the table.   When she was sick or had too many seizures and couldn’t go to school, I would have to stay home with her instead of working.   Somehow I always found a way to make the money stretch or found away to make up the lost wages, but that fear never went away.  
    I do  not  think that the laws are fair and they do not take every circumstance into consideration but how would that even be possible?   How do you know in each case what is fair?     

    1. 7.1

      This article is not about planned children. This is about children from one night stands, short term relationships and times when the man made it clear he did not want the child. Your husband wanted your child. So he should have been made to pay. You didn’t make any choices for him the women being talked about in this article did. I didn’t make my ex be a father, in fact he pushed me to become a mother. So yes i sued him for support. My fiance on the other hand got a girl he dated for a week pregnant and they decided together that she would not give birth to the child. She changed her mind and therefor changed his. That’s just wrong. It would be VERY easy to make this fair. A man has the same 3 months a woman has to “abort”. It’s fair because a woman can’t trap a man and she knows she might be in it alone if she chooses to give birth. If she tries to sneak the baby past the time limit by not telling him until her 3 months has passed and she can’t have an abortion then she’s just screwed herself. No one should get to decide when another becomes a parent. EVER.

      1. 7.1.1

        NO  man, NO person should ever be accorded any power to compel a mother to abort her child, ever, for any excuse.

        1. Lee

          MamaM is not saying the mother should be forced.   How can you not understand that?   She is saying that the mother changed her mind so the father choice is also automatically changed.   He has to support that child even though it is not his wish.   She is not saying that the father should be allowed to force her to change her mind.   Just that if he does not change his mind he doesn’t have to become a father in any sense of the word.

      2. 7.1.2

        If no one should   get to decide if another becomes a parent forever, then your idea is flawed. Just sayin.

  8. 8

    Well on the new “hit” TV show “Pregnant And Dating” on WETV not 1 but I think 4 of the 5 got pregnant “accidentally”. These aren’t uneducated 21 yr. old women either. They spend half of every episode pissing and moaning about their  baby daddies who obviously have NO SAY in the matter  and the other half trying to find hot rich guys who’ll date and marry them. Ahhhh yes Reality TV at it’s best! …..LOL What’s next “The  Accidentally Pregnant Bachelorette”??

  9. 9

    Well thought out, but no.   Being sexually active is a responsibility held by both the man and the woman involved.   Most people are so busy focusing on the pleasure that they forget this fact.   If a child is conceived, then both parties who created the child should be held responsible – be it accidental or intentional.   The federal governement (by way of the funds of taxpayers – who had NOTHING to do with said life creation) should not have to do the job of one of the parties involved because they claimed “it was an accident.”  
    The actions we take have consequences.   Either make better choices or remain on the sidelines, period.   Shall we start pardoning the drunk driver who causes a fatal accident as well on the basis of “it was not intentional?”   If you drink too much alcohol, then you are likely to have an  impairment of your senses.   If you are sexually active – regardless of the many stop gaps there are – there is a possibility that life may be conceived.   Period.   So if one chooses to be sexually active – you can be responsible.   You can try to “do all the right things.”   But there always is that chance that what nature intended may occur.     Being sexually active, as does live, requires personal accountability and a knowledge that not every factor of anything will be in one’s control.  

    1. 9.1

      So you are in support of abolishing abortion for women’s rights then correct? Because both parents should be held responsible. Guess all the women who get abortion should have just stayed on the sidelines right?

      1. 9.1.1

        The abortion issue deals with a woman’s right to a medical procedure and doctor-patient confidentiality. It has nothing to do with taking responsibility for a child. A fetus isn’t considered a child.

        Personally, I don’t agree with having an abortion unless it’s a medical necessity. However, I’ve accepted that it’s not going to change and recognize the difference between a woman’s ‘right’ to an abortion and being responsible for a child.

        I don’t know why people who don’t think men should take responsibility for a child turn to the ‘women can have an abortion’ argument. Okay, let’s say we take that argument and use it to ban abortions. What now? Suddenly, a lot more men are paying child support.  

        1. EmeraldDust

          I’m not sure what the men in the “women can have abortions” camp really want.   The right to force a woman to have an abortion ?   The right to force a woman to put her baby up for adoption ?   The right to opt out of financial support only works if the woman can financially support herself and a child, and many women can, so if they get pregnant by an unwilling baby-daddy, and he adamantly wants nothing to do with the child, then I really do think she should back off and not force child support from him.   But if she’s only financially able to take care of herself, but not herself and a child, then the only way to excuse the father from child support is, forced abortion, forced adoption, let the mother and child languish in poverty, or shift the financial burden off the individual man and onto the collective tax payers.
          I wonder how men would feel about forced vasectemies ?   (I’m not in favor of the BTW)
          With all the BC available * these days, these situations should be a lot more rare than they are.   I can’t believe that a high percentage of these “unwanted pregnancies” are accidents.    
          *Yes, I know that there are some groups, organizations, etc. trying to curtail some or all forms of BC, or avoid having to cover it through health insurance etc.   But there is still plenty of BC available OTC.   Condoms & foams are pretty cheap and easily available, and if your insurance won’t cover the exact form of BC that you want, covering the BC out of your own pocket is still a lot cheaper than raising a child.  
          Men & women should both be responsible for children they create, or not create them to begin with. But the very sad bottom line in all of this, one or both have failed in the responsibility. And the ONLY person who is truly innocent in these situations is the one who suffers the most.  

        2. Gerry

          Perhaps a “fetus” (a medical-science term) is not a child to you but in commom speech very much so. A pregnant woman is said to be “with child.” Perhaps you were thinking of “person,” when unmodified defined as “human being.”  

        3. MamaM

          EmeraldDust how is making an informed decision force? If a woman knows the man is not going to be a father and support the child she may want but she alone can’t afford then she shouldn’t have the child or she should go on welfare to support herself and HER child. Why should her circumstance make a choice for someone else?  Not to mention she could put the child up for adoption if she can’t afford to raise a child she chose to have by herself. I’m a “single” mom and if my son’s father had  the right to not support my child i would not have had him. But in my case the only reason i had my son is because his father wanted him. Now he is no longer in my son’s life. I got to make my choice why should i have the right to make someone elses choice???

  10. 10

    The idea that men should have more rights when a child is conceived is ludicrous! Women are still fighting for the right to have birth control that is paid for by the medical establishment and abortion is by no means a given in any situation. When two consenting adults have sex they both know what the consequences might be. This whole conversation can be shut down by the man using a condom. End of story.

    1. 10.1
      Daniel L

      Men should have equal rights to women. I know you think it is ludicrous, but equality goes both ways. Like you said, women are still fighting for the right to have their birth control paid for by other people, while men do not even have the right to be financially free from a pregnancy they did not consent to. Condoms fail on average 1 of every 100, which is in the millions as there are 300 million people in America. Currently we have an asymmetrical system that is biased against men. The law needs to be changed so that men and women are treated equally.

    2. 10.2

      “Paid for by the medical establishment?” Who pays FOR the medical establishment? Money that falls out of heaven, or is picked from trees?  
      I’m going to let you in on a little unsecret: Whoever pays the medical establishment, largely insurance premium payers, good ole Unkie Sugar, the taxpayers, pay for everything.
      This is more nothing but “gimme more free ________ (fill in the blank).”
      “Mother Nature,” biology made females the ones that get pregnant, not men. If you want a man to pay, or help pay for any children who are generated from the sperm that he gives to you, get him to put his name on the “dotted” line (marriage contract) before you allow him to donate his sperm to you.   

      1. 10.2.1

        Otherwise, what you (including the natural functions of your body) choose to do with the sperm he gave you is your choice entirely and (should be) your responsibility entirely.
        This does not consider forcible rape, in which the sperms were forced on her. Upon conviction of forcible rape, he should be compelled to pay all expenses of the child, plus pay the mother or adoptive parent(s) for raising the child. Often this cannot be accomplished but it should be attempted.

        1. Aurora

          Sure let’s have a society that slut shames pregnant women and let men fuck whomever they want. Let’s have a society of women taking care of babies by themselves. These are wonderful things for the child. Men need to change! Period!

    3. 10.3

      True but they are still not 100% effective. There will never be a cure all for these types of things. Government has no right to steralize individuals for any reason. You can’t say that protected sex is an irresponsible act. You also cannot say that everyone who finds themselves in positions like this is reepng the consequences of their actions. You can find yourself on either side of the situation without consenting or even necessarily engaging in sexual intercorse.

  11. 11

    Men should always pay for their children, whether it is unwanted or not. Period. A child needs as much support as possible and it’s not right for women to bear this burden alone. If men were the child bearers, you bet your bottom dollar the laws would be different. Men would be demanding women pay and they would have 10 years paternity leave. Our society demands that people be responsible for the babies they make. This applies to men and women. Men who complain about this are finally getting a taste of the burden women have faced since the dawn of humanity. No sympathy here for men!

    1. 11.1

      What about when the woman lies about being on BC or sabotages condoms? The former happened to a friend of mine. The same way a rape victim should be allowed to choose abortion, surely a man tricked into a child should not be forced to pay for it. I don’t think everything is as black and white as “Men should always pay”. Although ultimately in this situation the child is the loser. It doesn’t really matter anyway though. There would be no way for the man to prove he was tricked anyway. In the same way the so many poor women are unable to prove that they were sexually assaulted when they go home with some guy after a few too many drinks.

    2. 11.2
      Daniel L

      Men should never have to pay for anything they did not explicitly consent to. You claim that if men were the child bearers, the laws would be different. Of course, they would be different. If the situation were reversed, with women being forced to pay for children they did not consent to, then feminists would have already campaigned against it and changed the law to make it more equal. The problem is that men seem to be much more accepting of these unfair laws that women would be, were the situation reversed. Right now, every man who pays child support is supporting not his children, but the system that forces men to pay for decisions that were not made by them. The only right thing to do is to refuse to pay, and to move abroad.

    3. 11.3

      Girls and women mostly don’t want to have their babies killed. All too commonly pressure from parent(s), husbands, boyfriends, friends push them to choose abortion. Female biology is not a vast patriarchal-male conspiracy against women.  Women’s fathers do not choose whether an XX or an XY sperm fertilized the egg that became a woman. Men have no control over what a woman does with the sperm he gave her. If she accepted it, it’s hers. If she accepts sperm from a man without insisting that he marry her first, she should grow up and take responsibility for her choices.  

    4. 11.4

      You’re addressing morality, not legality. Sure, a fellow OUGHTA help care for any and all children he generates as a result of voluntary acts. But granting women the privilege of having sex relations without marriage, which is established for the purpose of protecting women, among other purposes, throws the whole framework of right upside down. Women are told that they can fornicate, no marriage, and make the man who she receives sperms from help pay for a resulting the child. If people are paid for fornicating we’re going to get more fornication and the natural history results that come.

      1. 11.4.1

        Oops! “History” doesn’t belong after “natural.” My suggestion function added it and I missed it.

    5. 11.5

      You’re right on point! I couldn’t have said this any better!

    6. 11.6

      agreed @paula. childbearing and childrearing are the most crucial work of humankind, they require handsome financial payment – and they must be paid for by the biological father (not taxpayer). if the man impregnate more than they can afford to pay for   – compulsory vasectomy. if they refuse to pay (and/or refuse vasectomy)   – prison with forced labour so their earned money goes towards bringing up their own children. taxpayers should not be paying for mens promiscuity and irresponsibility.

      women should have nothing to fear – as they already risking their lives and health to bring a child into this world. even more – they are going to suffer pains that need to be heavily financially compensated for. once the lady is pregnant – HER choice, whether she wants to abort, keep the baby and bring it up etc. all financial needs of woman and child to be taken care of by the child’s father whether he is married to her or not. and no woman should ever be in a position where she has to adopt her baby out – every mother should live a comfortable, work free life bringing up a child with the money the father pays.

      up to the point of  pregnancy, biology ensures women have no control. after pregnancy, it is the duty of the legal system to ensure women have all control and men have none – and this will equalise the price paid by both sexes. if women live in fear of rape and pregnancy, men must live in fear f prgnancy and financial committment. men should be sh*tting their pants in terror everytime before they have sex, because they  should be  the ones paying the price (literally)for their sexual entitlement and promiscuity.

      1. 11.6.1

        Well said!! Run for president!!

      2. 11.6.2

        Emotional nonsense.   Of course women have control up to the point of conception, because they choose when they have sex, raid a condom, or lie about the state of their birth control   The man who is duped into fatherhood shouldn’t have to pay for a women’s fraud.

    7. 11.7

      I agree with you 100% and I will add to this. If men were the ones who got pregnant, there’d be an abortion clinic every 3 blocks.

    8. 11.8

      Damn right, Paula! Paying child support is actually nothing compare to the actual care provided for that child for at least 18 years and 9 months, and having to scarifice your own life goals for that.

  12. 12

    This post make a grave error in assuming that the state sticks men with the bill for unwanted children simply as some form of punishment. The state sticks men with the responsibility of assisting with the financial support of their offspring because the STATE does not want to end up footing the bill for their little mistakes.  
    Read: welfare

    1. 12.1
      J. Tavarez

      The state also sticks women with the responsibility of assisting with the financial support of their offspring. Even when they keep the child – MOST of their money and free time goes for the child. And if the woman wants to give the baby but the man wants to keep it she also has to pay child support. Equal responsibilities there.

  13. 13
    Karl T

    Not comparable at all.   Drunk driving is illegal.   Having sex is not.   We’re not excusing the man or the woman if she gets pregnant.   We’re just saying the man should have more of a say.   This is not equality.
    The woman can also use a female condom.   She’s no less repsonsible than the man.   Why is it ludicrous for the man to have more rights?   If he is going to be held responsible for child support then he damn well better have an equal say.   You obviously are biased towards women and not about equality.

    1. 13.1

      In regards to your comment to SJZ: both men and women are responsible for a child they created thus they are both held responsible for preventing pregnancies. Saying that a man shouldn’t be responsible for an accidental pregnancy (as this article does) is placing all the responsibility/blame onto the woman.

      Men should have an equal say once the child is born. Too many times men are pushed to the side or put at a disadvantage when it comes to custody, how a child is raised, etc.

      However, a man can’t have an equal say in regards to terminating a pregnancy because he can’t force a woman to have a medical procedure.

      Once that’s legislated as being okay then what’s next? Can a woman force a man to have a vasectomy? Can a man force a woman to have one of her kidneys removed? Can a total stranger force you to get a nose job b/c he doesn’t like your nose? Where’s the line?

      1. 13.1.1

        The woman doesn’t have a baby according to the law when she is pregnant.   She has a fetus – a fetus has no protections and is not a person.   Apparently women consider it more like a tumor legally.


        Why would a man be required to pay for you to keep a tumor that you could have legally gotten rid of?   Can you imagine this in a court room when you apply this to a dog?

        “My boyfriend brought a puppy over to my house that he was going to bring to the pound.   I decided to keep the puppy and now I want him to pay me for 18 years to take care of it because I like puppies and I didn’t want to pound to put it to sleep.”

        Retarded, right?


        The woman gets to make the decision completely on her own:   Abortion or not.

        The man should get a say as to whether it is aborted or not.   If he doesn’t want it then he shouldn’t be responsible for it and the woman should get to decide if she wants it.

        What if the man does want to baby and the woman doesn’t?   Should she be forced to have it for him?   Why not?

        How is being forced to carry a baby any different than being forced to work 20-40 hours a month to pay for a child for 18 years?   They both come out to about 2 years worth of 8 hour a day labor with the men’s portion being all labor and half of the women’s being just a slight discomfort and a month or three of it without even really noticing shes pregnant.


        Why would a woman get to enslave a man for 2 years but a man not be able to force a woman to carry a child for 9 months?

        1. Gerry

          The woman doesn’t have a baby according to the law when she is pregnant.   She has a fetus — a fetus has no protections and is not a person.   Apparently women consider it more like a tumor legally.
          David, where did you get this? Do you have citations of cases in which the courts (judges) declared that a woman doesn’t have a  baby when she is pregnant? Or, references to statutes passed by legislatures that say that by calling an unborn baby a  fetus  she or he is not a human being and has no rights? Shades of Dred Scott.

    2. 13.2

      Even if having sex is illegal, the woman is as guilty of breaking the law as the man. Either both or neither should be punished.

    3. 13.3

      Equality this equality that! What about the child’s rights!!??

      1. 13.3.1

        Unborn children are over 18 years away from voting, so they don’t count with the politicians. Feminists make a lot more noise, and can vote, or soon can vote.

  14. 14

    If you can’t trust the person you are with to use contraception. You should be using   your own. Girls will rarely if ever, complain about using a condom. I have heard tales of guys refusing to use condoms and instead pressuring the girl to go on the pill of whatever. I am sure its the minority, but unless that trust is there then the guy should always be using a condom. Always.  
    I’m on the pill and sometimes forget to take it. If I am in any way unsure about it I tell my boyfriend to wear condoms for a week. Sure he is not a fan, but we are joint partners in this. I wouldn’t be able to date someone who wasn’t willing to take joint responsibility for a possible pregnancy. Likewise if I wanted an abortion, he better be there. Particularly as I feel I’m heading into the area where I am not sure whether it would be the right thing for me to have an abortion.  
    I also really dislike this lack of responsibility to actions done while under the influence of alcohol. If you are not in control of your actions you should not be drinking. To assume otherwise excuses all the drunk guys who start fights, crash cars, beat up their wives. Being drunk is not an excuse, you are responsible for your own actions – always.  
    Also, and this is anecdotal, and dependent on where I live. In my of my friends cases where a condom has broken the couple have addressed this straight away with the morning after pill. The morning after pill is not an abortion, it just creates womb environments which are very unfriendly to incoming fertilised eggs. In that situation both parties are on the same page re: taking responsibility for not getting pregnant.  
    Yeah I do feel sorry for these guys, but I really think their stories should be used to encourage condom usage and make it the responsibility of the man – not the woman. If you can’t trust her/don’t know her/wouldn’t support her – use a condom.  

    1. 14.1

      Whether the “morning after pill” causes abortion depends on when in the woman’s cycle the sperm got to the area in the fallopian tube where fertilization can take place and if and when her egg arrived in the same area, and whether fertilization occurred.    A “fertilized egg” is an embryo. By the time the embryo exits the tube, entering the uterus or womb, it is four days along and is composed of many cells, which are in the early stage of differentiation. In another 1-2 days the embryo burrows into the endometrium, the uterine lining.  
      It is at this point the “morning-after” drug causes the endometrium to reject the embryo. In a few hours it is dead and will be ejected with the next menstrual discharge.
      Whether you call this “abortion” or something else, the process of development and life of the embryo is aborted.
      If the “morning-after” drug is taken before ovulation, the egg may not go far enough to be fertilized. No abortion of a new human in that case.  

  15. 15

    He was there…He took the risk….It happened…and HE IS RESPONSIBLE…IT IS HIS CHILD whether he anticipated conception or not.

    1. 15.1

      Two young people get drunk, no matter how educated they are that happens.

      Neither has any finantial stability

      Girls being mentally attached to the fetus throws away all logic and decides to keep it


      Both parties end up Geriatrics, good job. At least the guy could have made it out with a promising future. The girl could have too but there’s such a massive stigma against abortion she’s too afraid to do it. Thank you Christians.

      1. 15.1.1

        Kapcom: Being opposed to killing human beings, whether at the beginning of their lives, near the natural end, or in between, is hardly an exclusively Christian position. Many religions and philosophies are opposed to killing people, with various conditions appertaining. Within broad categories of worldviews that approve of abortion, capital punishment, war, individuals personally disapprove of killing human beings. To blame (or credit) Christians and Christianity for trying to instill love for human beings, including ones not yet born, while ignoring all others that do the same, just demonstrates prejudice against Christians (nothing new; Christians were sneaking out to rescue exposed infants nearly 2,000 years ago, and being persecuted for it).

        1. Buck25

          You have every right to have and live by whatever religious views you embrace. You have exactly ZERO right, to force your religious views on those who do not share them, or have those views incorporated into law, so you can use the machinery and power of the state to force them on the rest of us. We have a little thing called the constitution, (you might have heard of it), which expressly prohibits that, and I expect and demand those provisions to be fully enforced. This is America, not some theocracy (no matter how much you’d like to have one). You are not “persecuted”, and you have no right to persecute others. You are free to enjoy your superstitious ignorance, and the rest of us are just as free to reject it.

        2. David

          I’m agnostic and I still don’t believe in abortion.   A child has to become a child at some point.   I find it hard to believe stabbing a knife through the belly of someone an hour away from birth isn’t murder or killing it as the head comes out as in partial birth.   How are either of those scenarios different from stabbing a 1 year old baby to death?   I doubt many would argue that a baby was murdered in any of those 3.   How about a day before the baby is due?   How about a week before it is due?   A month?   There has to be some line where a baby isn’t a baby and I think it lies somewhere between the moment someone has millions of nasty little slimy worm monsters shot into them and the moment a nasty little worm monster bursts out of their vagina covered in slime.

          I don’t want to decide for others where this line is but common sense demands that some thought be given to it.   Partial birth is illegal because of this.   I agree with it being illegal because it is obviously murder.   I don’t agree with forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy though.

          There is certainly a grey area that you can make your decisions within.   Right and wrong still exist though – even for those of us who aren’t part of a religion.   (I used the term agnostic because I detest anti-theism, which is what most atheists really are.)

  16. 16
    Anonymous Editor

    Coincidentally, the Dear Prudence column recently published a story about a letter writer who deceived her boyfriend into fathering their daughter. I think it’s very relevant to what Evan just talked about:
    I do sympathize with other men who were forced into parenthood due to unplanned pregnancies, but at the same time I believe both partners should be more willing to exercise willpower or use birth control. Though in the event that both methods fail, then they should properly sit down and discuss their next course of action. And if one parent agrees to raise the child by his/herself, the other should get a written and signed statement, preferably in the presence of a lawyer so that they won’t renege on their promise.    
    Lesson of the day – be responsible for your own birth control. For me and my wife, we just waited until we were married before we had sexual intercourse (we were both virgins). Before that, we did a lot of heavy petting, foreplay, and oral sex. We could have used condoms, but we didn’t want to due to our religious beliefs and fear of having a child too soon.

    1. 16.1

      Such signed statements are meaningless. The child support laws are already in place. The constitutional prohibition of impairment of contracts applies only to contracts entered into before a law goes into effect.
      If the mother gets AFDC, SNAP, WIC, Section 8 on behalf of the child, the state (government) will go after the father for what the state pays out on behalf of the child, if he can be identified and located.
      This is why it is so important for the child support laws as they stand to be repealed as applying to fathers who are not married to the mothers (excepting convicted rapists).
      The present child support laws undermine marriage by giving the same rights to promiscuous women as to lawfully married mothers.
      If the womenfolk would keep their thighs together to all but their lawful husbands, the problem would be almost nil.

      1. 16.1.1
        Karmic Equation

        How sexist, Gerry. Girls don’t get pregnant without a guy’s help. Mostly in the form of unprotected sex. Sure, there are girls who lie. He should assume girls are lying and provide his own condoms. Or HE can keep his dick to himself. If doesn’t ejaculate with a girl nearby, she can’t get pregnant with his child.

        I can’t tell you how many men try to convince to have sex without condoms. Now that I’m past my childbearing years, they still want to convince me of that, not ever thinking about STDs.

        So, men (or rather boys) who can’t keep their dicks in their pants should be made to pay for children that may result, particularly if it can be proven they didn’t even attempt to use a condom.

        Men need to always bring their own condoms. Desperate women might try to sabotage condoms she provides because she does want to get pregnant.

        And if we made birth control the responsibility of men in the court of law, such that if women get pregnant out of wedlock, it is assumed that that then man didn’t use birth control…how much do you want to bet some male scientist out there will discover a 100% effective male contraceptive?

        1. Gerry

          Nature/biology is the most sexist of all. Only females get pregnant. This means that the burden, duty, onus, responsibility falls on women if they don’t want to be pregnant.
          Condoms aren’t 100% reliable. They can have manufacturing defects (holes), they can tear, slip off, burst. In case of condom failure the burden of pregnancy is right back on the woman where it started.
          Condoms also do not protect against all STDs/VDs. Herpes is well known to be transmitted by contact of other than the penis. Chlamydia also can get around a condom, including the female condom.
          Marriage remains the best protection for women and children. As apostle Paul wrote almost 2,000 years ago, for each man to have his own wife and for each woman to have her own husband is the best remedy for fornication and all its woes.
          Keep your thighs together and you won’t have nearly the problem of penises going where they don’t belong. Like marriage, it isn’t a perfect, absolute solution but it goes a long way.

        2. Karmic Equation

          So you are comparing yourself to God now, as in YOU’re “nature/biology”.

          You just sound like a sexist man.

          Have men keep their dicks in their pants, and they won’t have to pay any child support.

  17. 17

    I know this may come as a shock to lots of people… for every action there is a consequence.   There are always going to be accidental pregnancies.   Whether you are the man or the woman involved – your act created this consequence.   If you are having sex just for the fun of it, maybe use a condom?

    1. 17.1

      To “Karmic Equation”: I already do have men keep their peckers in their pants. Unfortunately many don’t listen. Women don’t either, for many women unzip men’s pants and help guide them in.
      What do you suggest so that men will heed my advice?

      1. 17.1.1
        Karmic Equation

        And if making men heed your advice would be to no avail, why are you here giving advice to women, who also won’t heed you?

        1. Gerry

          KE, did I write, “NO men heed my advice to keep their peckers in their pants?” I wrote, “MANY don’t listen.” That infers, “Many (or at least SOME) DO listen.” It is to MUCH (or to SOME) avail.”

        2. TrumanHW

          Amongst other things, Karma is false. Nature is the most sexist force in existence.

          I’m an atheist, of nearly all propositions that lack evidence — which includes your absurd belief (and his biblical beliefs). That said, you’ve been a bitch to Gerry — and he’s been polite to you.

          Then you accuse him of being a sexist… Given your anger and rudeness, I think it’s YOU who’s a sexist; a misandrist.

          I’d recommend you grow up, but you’re post menopausal — so it’s likely to never happen.

      2. 17.1.2

        I suggest that men be REAL men (oh you hate when we say that. Sorry not sorry) and be responsible.

        1. clary

          I suggest that women be REAL women (oh you hate when we say that. Sorry not sorry) and be responsible for their choice and not force men into their choice aginst their will

          see goes both ways

  18. 18

    ” In consenting to sex, neither a man nor a woman gives consent to become a parent.”
    Well, let’s see: in consenting to sex, neither a man nor a woman gives consent to get an STD! “Please government I only consented to f**k, not to an STD, take it off from me!! really?

    1. 18.1

      If a man or woman does not reveal that s/he has a communicable disease, and transmits it to a sex partner, s/he should be held both criminally and civilly responsible.  

  19. 19

    SJZ what in the world are you talking about, “women are still fighting for the right to have birth control paid for by the medical establishment”? First of all, birth control for women is as widely available in the United States as toothpaste, and covered by many insurance plans. But even so, why should someone else have to pay for birth control for any woman, except maybe helping the poorest among us? This article is about personal responsibility, women should take some when it comes to birth control and provide for themselves. And not that it matters, but according to my local Planned Parenthood web page, the average cost of the pill is about the cost of a pizza per month. The more responsible you are for yourself, the more free you are. Not you personally, but all of us.

    1. 19.1

      Get any guy who you allow to make a deposit in your reproductive orifice to chip in, cash, buy your dinner, pay for your movie ticket, rent the DVD, whatever.

    2. 19.2

      Condoms only. I refuse to alter my hormonal structure.

    3. 19.3

      One more time: The question is not “should a man be responsible for any children he begets?” It is, “should he be FORCED (this means  by the government) to be responsible for any children he begets  without first agreeing to be responsible  (to me this means  marry the woman) for such children?”

      All the “shoulds” and invocations of personal morality are outside the topic. Sure, a man should…volunteer…to help support any children he begets. Either volunteer beforehand (marry the woman) or after making a baby.

      Rapists are outside the question, for in the case of rape the woman didn’t volunteer to have sex or to bear a child. Proven rapists absolutely should be forced to support any children they beget. That should be a condition of staying out of prison (imprisoned rapists rarely have anything to pay).

      And, Johnny, the idea that 15 year old females are children is rather new. Until the turn of the 19th to the 20th century the “age of consent” was 7-12 depending on what state in the USA. Girls (occasionally boys, too) could marry at 10-12 into the 20th century. What was a legitimate marriage was turned into child molesting by decree of legislatures and courts. I have known people who married at 14 and 15, had several children together and stuck together for life. One lady’s grandparents married legally at (she) 12 and (he) 19 and had several children together. One day their relationship was legal and the next day he was declared a pervert and a child rapist, ordered to register as a “sex offender” for cohabiting with his legal wife. Legal in one state and a felony in a neighboring state. We still have states that declare by statute that they do not recognize legal marriages in contingent states.

  20. 20
    Heather K

    I agree with @9 and @10. The whole thing of men thinking the ‘punitive paternity policies are aimed at controlling their sexual behavior’ – give me a break. And the whole thing about people will get drunk and hookup without condoms no matter what – seriously – that should not let people off then hook. That kind of attitude is maybe going to ‘absolve’ men and just stick women with very difficult choices about abortion and other options and stick women with many financial and emotional burdens.  
    Men should always remember to use a condom if they want to avoid blunders. I know a lot of men who never remember or think they need to use condoms and are seriously deluding themselves.
    As far as what’s fair – guess what: life isn’t fair.   It’s not ‘fair’ that men have little choice after the moment that they forget to use a condom. It’s not ‘fair’ that women would have to make a medical and moral choice and have their bodies altered or operated on as a consequence of a forgotten condom. It’s not fair – it’s just nature. Much as we got used to it in these modern times, we can’t control everything.

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