DISCOVER HOW SMART, STRONG & SUCCESSFUL WOMEN (THAT'S YOU!) CAN FINALLY Find Your Man
DISCOVER HOW
SMART WOMEN LIKE YOU CAN
FINALLY Find Your Man
Take this short quiz
to discover what you need to do now.
Take this short quiz now
Kate
Dear Kate,
You’ve got four different questions going on here.
There is “How do I know if it’s worth it to try a long distance relationship?”
There is “I don’t want to be the victim of a nice-player in a long distance relationship.”
There is “I’m falling for a guy that I’ve never met but have talked to on the phone for 6 weeks”.
Is there something wrong with a man in his 40’s that has never been married? My answer is predictable: Yes… and No.
If you read the above links, your dreams will be summarily dashed – not because he’s necessarily a player, but because the odds of ANY relationship working are slim, the odds of an ONLINE relationship working are slimmer, and the odds of a LONG-DISTANCE online relationship are the slimmest – especially when you haven’t even, um, y’know, MET yet.
That said, the part of your question which really intrigues me is the “red flag” question:
Is there something wrong with a man in his 40’s that has never been married?
My answer is predictable: Yes… and No.
This is where I would make an argument that stereotypes exist for a reason. The unhealthy part of stereotyping is not necessarily the stereotype itself, but the assumption that ALL people in the category fit the stereotype.
Thus, if you have preconceived notions about gorgeous people, rich people, short people, gay people, Irish people, etc – those notions probably came from SOMEWHERE. They’re not pure fabrications.
Jewish people like playing Twister on the lawn is a fabrication.
Jewish people are often highly educated and highly neurotic is not.
Are we together on this one? Good.
So there’s the stereotype of the forty-something bachelor – and it’s a valid one. He’s a player. He’s a Peter Pan. He’s a commitmentphobe. He’s too picky. He’s emotionally unavailable. He’s a heartbreaker. He’s unrealistic.
All of those things are likely contributing factors as to why a man might be 42 and never married.
So now you’re faced with this very real dilemma – is this man a victim of circumstance, or is he the common denominator in all of his relationship failures?
But what if he was living with a woman for seven years who didn’t believe in traditional marriage? What if he was in a three-year relationship with a woman who cheated on him? What if he was once ready to propose and she ended up breaking his heart? What if he spent five years in a dead-end relationship and has had difficulty getting back out there? What if – god forbid – he made a bunch of bad dating decisions and just hasn’t met “the one”? (Hey, all of us want to think that about ourselves – let’s just say for argument’s sake that it’s true!)
So now you’re faced with this very real dilemma – is this man a victim of circumstance, or is he the common denominator in all of his relationship failures?
And I think it would be very easy, and coldly logical, to say BOTH.
This doesn’t mean you should enter into a relationship with a forty-something bachelor with the expectation of failure.
It does, however, mean that he didn’t become a forty-something bachelor by making great decisions in love.
dating says
Great article man keep on posting such great articles .wishes for your fyture.
Karl R says
Evan said: (original response)
“It does, however, mean that he didn’t become a forty-something bachelor by making great decisions in love.”
In six months I’ll turn 40, and I’ve never been married. Self-confidence and marketability play a large role.
Just over 3 years ago I was working two part-time temp jobs and earning less than $25,000 a year. Today I’m working a full-time salaried position and earning more than double that.
Three years ago I was too skinny for many women (5’11”, 140-145 lbs). Since then I started excercising regularly and gained 15 lbs of muscle mass.
Just over three years ago a long dry spell in my dating life ended when two women asked me out on the same day. Both were members of my church which I’d started attending 6 months earlier.
Combined these things did amazing things for my self-confidence, particularly when dating.
Three years ago my dating pool was small and rather static. Since then, I joined a yoga studio and started taking dance classes again. Now my dating pool is large and has a steady flow of new faces.
During that time I also started reading dating advice, so now I have a better understanding of what I’m doing. And I’ve been dating constantly that entire time, so I have acquired more practical experience than I did during the previous 20 years.
In some ways my life has changed as much as Sandra’s did when she lost 60 lbs.
https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/i-lost-a-lot-of-weight-but-resent-all-the-men-who-now-find-me-attractive/
She’s entering the dating world as an inexperienced 23 year old. I felt almost as inexperienced when I resumed dating at the age of 36.
I would agree that there’s a reason someone is 40 and still single. But it’s not necessarily a red flag.
starthrower68 says
It’s unfair to make a judgement call on this guy based on superficial characteristics, but Evan echoed my sentiments. Really, you’re not going to know until you’ve met and spent some time with this guy. Yes, the risk is there that you will be rejected, hurt, etc. Your part is to treat him as kindly as possible and if he bails it’s his issue not yours. And even if he is/was a player, look at Warren Beatty. All it took to turn him into the picture of domesticity was Annette Benning. There’s hope for everyone.
Steve says
Kate;
People look for dating “rules” to reduce their risk of being hurt.
Dating rules don’t apply 100% of the time.
Still, dating rules can be useful if you have an idea of how much the dating rules apply. If 7 out of 10 people over 40 who were never married are “relationship defective” that is useful information. You can decide whether or not it is worth missing out on one of those 3 gems to completely avoid hooking up with one of those 7 losers.
The problem with dating rules is that there are no real statistics. The rules were made by dating experts based on their subjective and anecdotal experience. In other words, dating rules aren’t known. No degreed experts. No rigorous studies. No research.
However, real research with real statistics has been done on divorce rates. It is known that over 50% of marriages in the US fail. It is also known that people who get remarried do not have lower divorce rates.
In other words there is real evidence with real research and real statistics that divorced people are “relationship defective”.
Can you imagine anyone, dating expert or not, advising people not to date divorcees in their 40s? I can’t. Those are most of the single people in that age range.
Instead, dating experts will advise people to date that demographic, but be alert for warning signs. “What caused the divorce?” “If part of the cause was your date, has your date changed since his/her marriage?”. Etc.
You need to come up with warning signs to look for in the man you are interested in.
Is he a player? I don’t know anything about players other than that they want sex and nothing else. Common sense would dictate that with attractive women living all over the country that a competent player will not bother with a long distance possibility and that he will not invest a lot of time in a particular woman. Why should he? If he is only looking for a hookup he can get that at home and with less time than he has invested in you so far.
I’m cynical about the prospects for long distance relationships so I would advise you on *that* factor alone to move on.
When I date divorced women sooner or later I try to find out why they are divorced. Try to find out why your 42 year old never got married.
Did he have a live-in “GF” for years and years? Was/is he a workaholic who had no time for his spouse ( this is ALSO the case with a number of divorcees, your dating alternative, who haven’t learned their lesson )? Does he have emotional baggage that prevented a marriage? Is he over that baggage? Sometimes people do get over things and become better people over time. FWIW, often divorced people, your dating alternative in that age range, also have emotional baggage. If not from their lives, then from their divorce.
In the end, you just have to take a risk.
Evan has a wonderful rule.
Look at how s/he treats you, not at what s/he says and not what you want to be true.
If the person is local, has been giving you everything you want in a relationship and has been doing that for a sustained period of time then s/he is worthy of your risk.
If not, move on.
Tina says
That was a well written response and I think you gave some good advice.However to lump divorced people into a category by saying because their relationship ended, they are relationship defective, I don’t agree with. A marriage might have been a very positive relationship and raised a family etc and still end in divorce because people change over the course of their lives and decide to divorce. Many unhappy people stay married, so that doesn’t prove they are in good relationships or have better relationship skills.
Selena says
Another possibility: Maybe he didn’t believe in getting married just for sake of fulfilling a societal norm. Unlike say, his 42 yr. old counterparts who did. And subsequently found themselves divorced. Perhaps more than once.
Maybe he didn’t want to take a vow to be with someone the rest of his life if he was unsure in his heart that he could keep that vow. Unlike his counterparts who took such a vow, believing they could always get a divorce if the marriage became untenable for whatever reason.
Perhaps, just perhaps…he might be a more sincere and loyal partner than someone who married “to go along” with his partner’s wishes, or some other spurious reason. One thing we know, a marriage license is no guarantee someone won’t cheat.
Seems to me, the only way to determine if a 40-something, never-married, person would make a good partner would be to get to know him/her IN PERSON. Then decide.
Truthiness says
Selena, I am heartened to know that there are wise, thoughtful people like you out there. Unlike the reader and author who make snap judgments without any factual basis.
By the way, some of the “red flag” explanations – he’s too picky, he is unrealistic – apply just as much to women as they do to men. So if a woman hasn’t been married by 35 or 40, that is a big red flag and she also should be avoided or treated with caution, right? Women say all the time that they aren’t willing to settle for less than they want and deserve, whether they are being realistic or not. If a man assumes the same attitude, how is that wrong while the woman is admired for being empowered and independent? Double standard much?
Clayton says
I really like what you had to say on here Selena. My parents met at college, married, and stayed married for 44 years until my dad passed away. My mom never remarried. I was ready to get married once, and had my world turned upside-down when that relationship suddenly ended to my surprise. I felt that I could no longer trust myself and my own judgement or be emotionally available again, after feeling like a total fool. I have friends and family who have been married and divorced, some multiple times. I helped one friend through a failed marriage, basically on suicide watch for weeks. I said when I was younger that I would only marry once. I am now 45, even though most folks are kind enough to say that I look much younger (which I partly attribute that to not being married or the stress of having kids).
I am also very much a loner, and really only recently started to think about having a life partner. I guess I fit the Peter Pan or “super picky” category here, and have little experience in matters of romantic love, but I am only looking for one person. Your post at least lets me know that someone out there might also think there is still a chance for me to find love, even if I come with Red Flags! Thank you!!!
Jennifer says
I think you hit the nail on the head with the main concerns Evan. If a man that wishes to be married has not yet achieved that ‘goal’ by 42, it’s wise to find out if he knows why. The real question that comes in is whether or not you should automatically hold a person’s inability to reach their ‘goal’ against them. In this case I’d say you shouldn’t.
I would, however, be interested in finding out if he knows the reasons why he hasn’t done what he wanted to do and if he is doing anything differently now to correct it. For example, if he claims to just not have met the right girl yet, is he doing things to meet more people that may be a match for him, etc. Understanding a situation and taking steps to correct it are key.
My main advice to the letter writer would be to meet this guy as soon as possible. Don’t focus on reasons it may not work, etc. Meet and see if you even have the potential for a relationship in the first place.
Ava says
My take is that the farther the distance, the more difficult. A 5 hour drive or train ride isn’t as difficult as as a 5-hour plane trip that requires a certain amount of planning. Personally, I don’t think the distance between Chicago and Minneapolis is insurmountable.
That said, you’ve been talking long enough that it’s time to make plans to meet in person. It’s also worth discussing early on whether or not either of you would be willing or able to move if it came to that. Many people with kids, or even certain types of jobs, don’t have that mobility. I also doubt that a guy who is having lengthy phone conversations with you over a period of weeks is a player. Players generally don’t want to put that kind of time in a relationship over such a distance. You don’t want to let expectations build up to such a degree that when you do meet, if it doesn’t work out one or both of you is terribly hurt and disappointed.
There is one thing I’d like to make crystal clear: many marriages are a sign of how CONVENTIONAL the couple is, not how committed. They marry because it’s what’s expected of them or because they think it’s “time.” If they were really so committed, would the divorce rate be as high as it is? That’s not to say that some unmarried older men simply don’t want to get married. If you’ve had such lengthy phone conversations, has the subject of relationships ever come up? Has he ever lived with anyone? Been in a long-term relationship? Don’t interrogate the guy, but don’t be afraid to ask tough questions because you’re afraid of what the answer might be.
That’s the problem with many dating rules, they don’t take into account that every person is different, and has had a different experience. Rules are great as guidelines, but let your own experience, knowledge, and gut feeling, be your guide.
angela says
Steve,
GREAT post. I concur!!!
Selena says
@Ava #7
“There is one thing I’d like to make crystal clear: many marriages are a sign of how CONVENTIONAL the couple is, not how committed. They marry because it’s what’s expected of them or because they think it’s time. If they were really so committed, would the divorce rate be as high as it is?”
Clap! Clap! Clap!
Diana says
Being 42 and single, and having never married is not a red flag; at least not for me. Potential red flags come up after I know their history, as there can be reasonable and understandable explanations for their current status. I do not believe he is a player either, based on your experiences thus far. I think the biggest issue is the LTR situation.
I hear from loads of men who live in different states from me, yet I will not engage them in anything long distance. I know what my boundaries are and I know that I will not and cannot relocate for someone at this time in my life nor date with any regularity, if he’s a thousand miles away or even a hundred which can also be difficult. And honestly, I am always a little perplexed by the guys who continue to state that distance is not a problem for them, unless they are a traveler likely looking for an out-of-town fling. They could even be married.
But this is not about me. If you feel that strong of a chemistry and connection with him, then try to meet as quickly as you can vs. continuing to put the cart before the horse. While the odds are not great for successful, long-lasting LTRs, they CAN work, so all the best to you.
Michael says
Can you imagine anyone, dating expert or not, advising people not to date divorcees in their 40s?
I do.
I advice people who have never been married to stay away from divorcees. In fact, some Jew said a really long time ago that it is adultery to marry a divorced person, or for a divorced person to remarry.
I would rather marry someone who is 21 and had never been married, even though I would not have much in common with her, than I would marry a divorcee of any age.
Maybe he didn’t want to take a vow to be with someone the rest of his life if he was unsure in his heart that he could keep that vow. Unlike his counterparts who took such a vow, believing they could always get a divorce if the marriage became untenable for whatever reason.
Perhaps, just perhaps he might be a more sincere and loyal partner than someone who married to go along with his partner’s wishes, or some other spurious reason. One thing we know, a marriage license is no guarantee someone won’t cheat.
Seems to me, the only way to determine if a 40-something, never-married, person would make a good partner would be to get to know him/her IN PERSON. Then decide.
Great advice.
searchingwithin says
I think if a 42 year old man I was interesting in told me he had never been married, I would be listening with a raised brow. I wouldn’t write him off completely, but…
One thing I have learned the hard way is to really, really listen to what he tells you, no matter how significant it may seem, including jokes, stories of other people, you name it, because there are clues there, big ones. If you let someone talk long enough, they will tell you everything you need to know.
searchingwithin´s last blog post…How Will We Love?
j says
That’s so true and its also wise to not let youself get too attached too soon so you’re able to really take it all in and not focus in on the whole picture. I think its really hard when people are older because they are having to sort through people who don’t want commitment or people who’ve been burned in a marriage that failed. Most of the long time bachelors I’ve seen around or I hear abour well they seem to stay that way. If I were single I would be leery of them if I wanted marriage or something long lasting. I think they mainly prefer friends with benefits or to be alone most of the time. I think people that need someone get that if not they don’t.
Leah says
In these long talks why not ask him about his past relationships?
r says
I’m 43 and have had none. Once a woman hears that there’s no chance for me.
Ava says
Can’t we perhaps flip this and say that Kate is actually expanding her options and her chance to find love by considering someone who is outside her local area?
Also, some divorced men I’ve met have had crippling baggage. They may even want to re-marry, but that doesn’t necessarily make them great prospects. The divorce rate for second marriages is even higher, something like 70%, I believe.
WithLove says
Well, this is a topic I can relate to. First of all…Steve, guy you definitely spoke words of wisdom and truth,standing O. Searchingwithin, you also shed some great light on this as well. Michael? are you refering to Jesus? the “jew”? If you are a believer maybe you should refer to Him with His name. Some people may or may not believe as you or I do. With respect….
What I do know is that I too, actually tried not to get involved with people that had never been married only from the standpoint that the experience of actually making that commitment hadn’t been made in the past. When we marry things do change…some for the better some for the worse. We learn, I know I have, alot about being married. So, with that being said listening to the above comments and Evan…my viewpoint has changed. Just like I wouldn’t want anyone saying they wouldn’t want to get involved with me because I have been divorced twice. No one knows the actual events that led up to both of my divorces. Domestic violence and well a red flag “I should” have paid attention to in the beginning of the last relationship. There you have it….you NEVER know what the circumstances are. I don’t want anyone ever assuming things about me, so…why should I assume about them. Like Searchingwithin said, after many conversations….you will eventually find out what you need to know, but you have to PAY ATTENTION. Don’t start out or leave the rose colored glasses on….take them off and see, hear, and feel what is REAL. Lots of stories out there…many different stories with nothing cookie cutter about them. Investigage everything! My thought process was there for my own protection….fear of being hurt. Trying to find the safest best bet I can. Can I really? No. No pain, no gain as the bodybuilders like to say…feel the fear and do it anyway….what doesn’t kill you only makes you
stronger…and on and on……that is how we learn and grow….so here I go, learning and growing! Hang in there Kate, just be aware of the red flags….pay attention to them, they are REAL!
Jennifer says
I agree with the sentiments that other’s have expressed about keeping your eyes open to red flags in general and would like to take it a step further- in all of my relationships/dating adventures, there were signs as soon as three months in, even more quickly in most cases, of potential problems or red flags. Sometimes it was just a gut feeling, but it was a warning nonetheless. I chose to ignore them and that’s where the problem comes in. It’s not that liars and bad people are so adept at hiding who they really are- i propose it’s that we refuse to listen/pay attention/take appropriate action most of the time.
I think we can all save ourselves so much time, heartache and trouble if we learn to heed these flags instead of talking ourselves out of them or hoping/waiting for things to change. If we trusted and believed in our ability to know pretty early on whether someone was shady or not, we’d be less worried about trusting people in general, which would only help our future relationships as well.
If we start picking up on these warning signs early on and taking appropriate action (usually leaving), we’d decrease our chances of being 42 and never married (if married is what we want to be) or 42 with multiple divorces and/or deep scars and emotional baggage under our belts.
And for those that are already in that boat, learning from past experiences and *behaving differently in the future* is the most important thing. It’s never too late.
Trever says
its all bs they all are player in my book I don’t date no more because of that.
Selena says
I have to wonder also, if they talk often, for as long as 5 hours at a time wouldn’t some information regarding previous relationships naturally have come out? I know some people are more private than others, but still…when you get to talking about the things you’ve done, the places you’ve lived, details of your life are revealed even without direct questions.
VR says
Great post as usual Evan.
Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit… not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho.
This time last year I ended it with a 43 year old never married man, found out he was a passive-aggressive player, by listening to what he said about the women in his past.
The only woman that he lived with (for three “crazy” years), she was the one who proposed to him and he was reluctant to marry and never did.
What all his failed relationships had in common was HIM.
Lesson learned. Now dating a man who has been previously married and had several long-term relationships…
JoeK says
“What all his failed relationships had in common was HIM.”
So this guy would’ve been a better choice if he had been previously married?
And if they were marriages that ended in divorce (which they would’ve HAD to be, for him to date you), what they would all have in common would still be HIM!
40neverkissed says
I’m even lower than him.
j says
I do think that alot of these dyed in the wool bachelors may have personality disorders that make it impossible to sustain relationships and they break alot of hearts when women try to make something happen with them. I’ve seen it up close and personal and it gets to be pretty predictable. I dont blame someone for wondering what they’re in for. If I were single I think If. I were single I would probably pass . Let some other gal take that challenge.
Jen says
Imagine YOU being single and into your 40s, and never married simply because of circumstances in your life, and being told you are defective in your personality, feels good huh?
Larz0 says
That’s terrible reasoning. Someone making a poor decision (“youthful, silly marriage”) is a better choice than someone who wisely chose to skip that mistake? Women who think that way are doing the guys a favor as they apparently have little respect for marriage and see it more as a rite of passage than what it should be — a one-time, life-long commitment.
Shane says
Typical American Female. honestly, this is one of the main reasons why ANY guy over 40 should look long and hard to overseas relationships. No matter what a guy does, he will never be good enough in any American womans eyes. I like the biggest key word of your post….(Now dating a man…..) Yeah, women here in America want a guy who is broken in and beaten down and battered up so he will bow to her every beck and call. You pretty much some it up that your also a player and as funny as it seems, still NOT married. In closing here is the facts of American women: You women all complain about the guy being a player, then you complain if the guy has baggage, then you complain if the guy is over 40 and never married, then you complain if the guy wants to go out with friends for a few hours, then you complain if a guy is still a virgin in his adulthood because he wanted to wait for the right time, then you complain if a guy sleeps around with every woman under the sun. Moral of the story is this, you will never be happy with anything we do as men. So my suggestion is why don’t all of you just go out and become nuns?
r says
What about a 43 year old virgin?
Elizabeth Rochelle Dickson says
I think it’s silly and immature to insist on having been married or in a long term relationship before as an automatic “no” for a man over 40. He may well take commitment seriously enough that he just won’t do it until he’s ready to be serious. I think more people ought to stop rushing into relationships to fit conventional “wisdom”. I once accepted a marriage proposal because I thought I was supposed to, even though I couldn’t be less interested in marriage at the time (I’m still firmly in the “nope” category at 42! I’m female, and nothing sounds less appealing than being married; I have never looked at a wedding dress with more thsn mild interest, and have never, ever planned “my perfect wedding” more than “meh, black lace dress (I happen to like them and own 3.) at the courthouse… whatever.” ) if he had paid me. Turns out my reservations were well founded, as he was an ass and a liar. But seriously, some people just don’t really care for long term relationships OR marriage, and find it super irritating to be thrust into some kind of armchair pop psychological box of “something is wrong with you!” Dude, maybe something is wrong with YOU for pushing your insecurity on us.
broken-hearted girl says
Almost 2 months ago I ended a 2.5 years of a relationship with a never married man at 42. He was successful, extremely well educated and cultured and was promising a future or a marriage together btw I am currently 34. We were getting ready for a marriage and we even had the papers ready. He was very serious on getting married from the moment we met. He was talking and planning a life with me in it.I would never think of the age over 40 that never married before would be so difficult to date. Please offense to anyone who hasn’t met their significant other yet this is not for you of course but pay attention to some of the things why this is not working out. The way I ended the relationship wasn’t mature at all but let me share my side of story a man on his early 40s were waiting for his retired parents to come to my parents for almost over 6 months.They were living in another city but a 42 year old man was really so stubborn- so difficult to be convinced that it was time we organized the city hall and stuff until his retired parents who literally have plenty of time to make it to my city. This 42 year old man was as stubborn as a donkey was that he didnt prioritize us to organize the very simple wedding ceremony and was still asking for his mom’s approval on anything that I was trying to plan.
I asked him actually I literally threatened him that he eithers ask his parents to come and meet mines asap or I leave. Because he was always coming up with some excuses that his parents have this and that and they will come eventually but he doesnt know when and he can’t even ask them an exact date or convince them or organize the date.
sorry if this sounds too dramatical to you but I really had been patiently waiting for a yearfor this to happen but he never paid attention to what I wanted to do how I wanted to feel he was always nice to me and such and I loved him a lot that I had to accept most of the negative things that he carried too.
What I am trying to tell here is it is really almost impossible for someone to convince a stubborn 42 year old man to do sth out of his wish. he was very open with me why the previous relationships didn’t work. All I can relate was that he wasn’t accommodating. I was the one who was accommodating the most time. It was his way or the highway. It was only his family rules not ours. It was always his ground rules in the relationship he did not care about his gf feelings.
A man who has never married before and was making his way towards a marriage with me, planning a life with me, gathering the docs (by my force) made me realize If I was to marry this man it was always going to be his way. If I wanted a different way it was impossible. and that made me realize his age and marital status had made it so clear that he had no tolerance towards making a relationship work. I think it gets even harder to date after certain age. you have your own rules and truth and not flexible to come to a mutal way with your SO!
There are solid mistakes that I have done in this relationship too I was always walking out of on him after our fights because he was CONSTANTLY shutting down and STONEWALLING whenever I came up with a problem talking to him.
I still cry every day and it is really difficult to digest this break up even tho I ended it myself. He didnt want to try tp make it work because he had golden rules of if anyone was leaving the relationship he wouldnt stop them.And it was a red flag.
We all have problems we all have crazy side negative sides. what I believe is that now certain age and certain types are single because they never want to change.
Thanks for reading my drama-filled post. Thanks for all your coming up comments. Positive and negative ones are all welcomed. Stay hungry stay foolish!
Barrett says
Breaking it down as you did was great. As to the question she asked though I don’t think it’s a red flag on it’s own that he is unmarried and 42. It’s possible he had been quite busy with work when he was younger or had family commitments keeping him from the dating scene. He is talking for 5 hours at a time which is positive but you should honestly look out for yourself. It’s possible that this could work out but as Evan already pointed out the odds are against it.
Diana says
To searchingwithin #12: That is a very good point about listening. I have noticed that being a truly good listener takes skill, patience and tolerance. I try my best to not interrupt people or focus on what I am going to say next rather than focusing my direct attention to what they’re sharing. Most of us just want to be heard. 🙂
I remember reading an article a few years ago about men and women in their 40’s and 50’s who had never married finding love through a dating site I believe. Most of them had been highly focused on their career. And I personally know some great men in their late 30’s, early 40s who have also not married due to their careers. I think a red flag for me would be when they have had no long-term relationship experience. Being single and independent for so long can make you pretty self-serving and set in your ways.
Another consideration is what the writer is looking for. Is she hoping for marriage someday, etc.? It may turn out that he’s just fine, but doesn’t believe in the institution of marriage, and if that’s what she wants most, they won’t be a good match any way.
WithLove #15 is right, too, about making assumptions. One never knows why someone divorced or did anything in their life until they know their story. It is very possible to exit a divorce as a much more knowledgeable, evolved, and finely-tuned human being. Adversity only makes you stronger and wiser.
j says
I think about not having any long term relationships is pretty telling. But really its all scary because I’ve met some pretty weird bachelors and their stories are varied but the basic theme ofhow they run their life tends to be simular and the older they get it seems the more they just stay on their own. They are usually really into their friends and maybe parents and siblings and that’s it. They’re usually very picky whether they’re good-looking or not. They’re veey really skin averse and feel less stress being single without so much responsibility. I don’t know of anyone who has suceeded with a guy like this.
j says
I meant to say risk averse. In other words they worry alot about what could go wrong or who they might miss out on. Its funny too because wether they are successful they act like they are such a catch and are kinda arrogant. One of my friends was dating one and over time he began to really boast that he could have almost any woman he wanted and the guy was so not cute! Very he was a legend in his mind.
JM says
I beg to differ from many of the comments posted here. I think the real issue is not the fact that the guy is in his 40s and never married. The real issue is the “false sense of intimacy” which might be building based on lengthy long distance phone calls. While he might be a great conversationalist, and you’re both finding out about each other, one meeting in person might wipe all of that out when the phone chemistry does not translate in real time. I would recommend to make a plan to meet sooner, rather than later.
I continue to be baffled by the judgmental attitudes of so many people who think there is something inherently wrong with people in their 40s who are still single. I’m a 48 y.o. single female, who wasn’t ready in her 20s to settle down, was focusing on my career in my 30s and moved to NYC at the age of 38 where everyone is single! I met a guy today who is 60 and has been married (and divorced) twice. My sister got married at 21, and after 23 years of marriage, is divorced (and now remarried). I can’t tell you how many of my friends in their 40s are either divorced or unhappily married or worse yet, having affairs, yet, there is still a huge stigma placed upon people who choose to marry later in life, and who are still single in their 40s. I think we all have a tendency to make sweeping generalizations and I’m trying to treat each new person I meet with a clean slate before I jump to conclusions based on stereotypes. And like Jennifer mentions above, we should all pay attention to red flags early on, whether the guy/woman is single and in his/her 30s or 40s, or divorced in his/her 50s/60s!
Diana says
Actually, you can pretty self-serving and set in your ways and NOT be single and independent. So I stand corrected [by me ;)]!
Great post, JM.
starthrower68 says
I just received “wink” on a site I’m using (yes, had an attitude adjustment) from a 51-year-old guy who’d never been married; that wasn’t what bothered me. What bothered me was that in paragraph one of his profile, he says he wants a no-strings attached relationship (more power to him if he wants that) then contradicts himself in the 2nd paragraph by saying he wants a marriage and children. I very clearly state that while I’m in no rush to walk down the aisle, I’m not looking for a dead-end fling. I also clearly state I don’t want to have any new babies (I could but I’m 41 and I’ve got 3 already).
Of course I don’t think he was actually interested. He probably just like the profile and it was a tip o’ the hat, which is fine too.
Steve says
@JM post #21
People are quick to judge older single never-married people in a negative light because that group of people is far less common than older divorced people.
People aren’t going to judge themselves, their family members, their friends and their acquaintances as “relationship defective”, despite the hard numbers providing evidence to that end. They know themselves, they know their family members and they know their friends. Knowing them, they know that even hard numbers for a general demographic do not dictate a destiny for particular individuals.
The people passing dismissive judgments on single never-married people may not know many of these types of people or have only met a few bad examples. Like the people who you can instantly tell why they are divorced. Since those people are not often in their lives they aren’t forced to reevaluate their thinking about them.
Life is busy. Nobody has time to inventory, then analyze all of their beliefs. We do it as we have to. They simply haven’t had to. I don’t think that makes them less bright or more judgmental. Just more disappointing to come across.
casualencounters.com/blog says
Getting married is for Fail.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…Bondage.com review
JM says
Thank you Diana 🙂
Steve, I appreciated your perspective and spin on this topic, or shall I say, my post? 😉
Cilla says
@ Steve
I’m only judging from my personal experience dating never-married men over 40 (incredibly picky, right down to how the TP should should hang) and being friends with a number of women over 40 who have never married (also incredibly picky and set in their ways). I also know a number of physicians through work who are over 40 and never married–in this case, it seems to be their training and work environment that make them self-centered and socially awkward.
I’ve never let what society thinks deter me from dating someone I thought was wonderful, but I’ve had enough bad experiences with over 40 singles that it’s my own personal yellow light (maybe not quite a red flag, but bears inspection). I’m sure there are exceptions, yourself included.
40neverkissed says
Look at my handle. That’s all any woman needs to know. Automatic rejection.
Larz0 says
Dude, if you’ve never been kissed by 40, your age is not the issue.
Get out there and make something happen!
r says
LOL not going to work, women would touch him with a 10 foot pole.
hunter says
…I would suggest you get a dating coach……
Steve says
@Cilla post #27
Lets take a look at some common negative thoughts about single people over 40 who never got married:
1. They aren’t interested in settling down.
2. They can’t be trusted for fidelity.
3. They don’t know how to be in a relationship.
4. They have a huge amount of emotional baggage
5. They are self centered
Who are the men it is possible for you to date? Single never married men or single divorced men. There are no other possibilities.
If you haven’t, go to the top of this thread and read my first comment. There is real research done by real degreed experts with real statistics that show that divorced people are “defective” for relationships.
Common reasons for divorces are #2, #3 & #5 making them similar to those “defective” single never married people. Divorcees also frequently have issue #4 as a result of their divorce. Think of all of the people (bitterly) talking about their ex’s. 4 out of 5 of the defects that never-marrieds over 40 have. Scratch anyone who is divorced from your list of potential dates.
What about single never married people who are exactly 39 years old? Red flags? Why not? They are only one year away from being 40? Does “39” and never married feel better than “40”? Why? Okay “39” is cool. What about “38”? Still too old? What about 37? At what point do the datable never-marrieds in their 30s spoil? What happens at what age and why?
What about single never married people in their 20’s? The generalizations for that demographic also match up with single never people in their 40s. Issue #1 is a very common generalization about that group. Fidelity? I have friends in their 20s & 30s tell me that cheating is more common than not. Add defect #2 to the list. Issues #3 & #5 are expected for people that young. They just aren’t grown up. Emotional baggage? Well the 20 somethings are the product of those broken homes those defective divorced people generated( most of whom got divorced in their 30s ). So, as a group, 20 somethings have all 5 defects of single people in their 40s who were never married. So add them to divorced people as people you should never date.
I’ve heard issues 1 – 5 complained about, a lot, for divorced people as well as single never married people in their 20s, 30s and 40s.
Cillia, if you judge a man by the general demographic he belongs to you don’t have any men left to date or hope to find for a relationship.
I have lousy writing skills as all of the regulars know. However
– I’m interesting to talk to and a good coversationalist.
– I’m good looking.
– I care about my appearance
– I have no substance abuse issues
– I have a great sense of humor
– I’ve never cheated on anyone
– I have no debt whatsoever
– I’m not a narcissist.
– I’ve never let myself be used for somebody else to cheat
– I fight fair and in a non-toxic way
– I ask people about THEIR opinions and THEIR lives.
– I have a steady job in a good career
– I love talking just for the hell of it, even about relationships
– I keep my appointments, I’m on time and I keep my word
– I’m great for getting things off of high shelves
– Unlike many men, I love (as a group) women
– I change light bulbs
– I take out the trash
I’m also over 40. It is a bad cliche, but I don’t look it. I’ve never been married. If you came across me on match.com you would pass me up
If you met me the old fashioned way at a bar or a party you would stop returning my phone calls once my ugly secret came out.
I’d be having all of those balloon rides, dinners in rustic restaurants, bike rides, hikes, movies, watching videos while sick with someone else.
Ileen says
Steve
You sound like a great guy! Hope you find someone.
Joe says
Cilla, doesn’t everyone have a way they think TP should hang?
Selena says
Re:#28
Steve…YOU ROCK!
And yes, there is only one way to hang the toliet paper – clearly the end goes on the outside. Sheesh. (Smile)
Selena says
“At what point do the datable never-marrieds in their 30s spoil?”
ROFLMAO!
j says
Some would say men over 37 are spoiling because by then should have had ample time and opportunity. That’s I think a last call for married life and after that maybe early 40s. After that the real danger zone hits and they really tend to have something holding them back in mt humble opinion.
trevor says
More than likely what is holding them back is that by that age most men who haven’t tied the knot have probably seen the marriages of several of their male friends and family members who married in their 20s implode and have heard about divorce court, child custody fights, etc., etc. Most have probably also had several seemingly happily married friends tell them they wish they were still single. I am 45 and single and my college roommate has been married and divorced four times. I can’t count the number of married men who have told me they wished they had never gotten married, or that they would never do it again, or simply said “don’t do it bro!”
Patrick Coyle says
I agree, seen couple of my friends and brother dragged through the divorce courts and be completely ruined even when the spouse was unfaithful due to no-fault divorce laws. I’m 45 and single and still date but i’m now extremely picky. My biggest issue from my personal experience is trying to find someone who would be faithful.
Fromkin says
Oh, we’ve all said “never again”. Coexisting is tough. The good times are good though.
Cilla says
@ Joe
Yes, it should only hang from the back. LOL
@ Steve
As I said before, I’m only judging from my personal experience. This is what people do, right or wrong, when making any kind of choice, whether it’s buying fruit, looking for a new employer, or replacing a lawn mower. I also said it’s a yellow light to me, something that gives me pause, not an absolute deal breaker.
I feel the same hesitation about someone is divorced or widowed but has lived alone for decades or someone who has been married two or more times–he may be a little too set in his ways or too picky to make MY life easier or more fulfilling. The men I dated who fell in these categories WERE difficult, demanding, self-absorbed, and unsupportive. Judging prospective dates who fall in these categories is no different than saying I prefer to stay away from men who are religious conservatives, who don’t like pets, or who hate to read–we are just not likely to get along.
Everyone who participates in online dating (and really, dating in general) judges people by SOME demographic they belong to, whether that’s geography, marital status, age, educational background, or income. If those distinctions didn’t work for the general population, the sites would have abandoned them long ago. It’s my right to use those standards as I see fit to find a mate who works for ME.
BTW, I’m currently in a relationship with a man who is also divorced. We are both divorced because our spouses cheated on us. Does that make US the “defective” ones? I don’t think so.
Diana says
Oh dear … I surely do hope that just because I am divorced that does not make me defective for a relationship. I am doomed. Just as for the older singles who have never married, you cannot paint everyone with such a broad stroke. Everyone is human and makes mistakes. The wonderful thing about mistakes is the fantastic opportunity they create for personal growth and wisdom.
You really do have to know a person before you can determine if they’re defective for anything in life. For some reason, the term “defective” makes me cringe.
WithLove says
Steve, you sound like a great guy! So what website are you on???? hee hee…..
You make some excellent points, and by the way you are a pretty good writer.
I admittedly was a person afraid to date the “never been married at almost any age” people. I don’t want anyone to assume why, how, who, when about me. I chose to just get to know the people that peak my interest. I think us divorced folk, as hard as it is, need to revaluate ourselves and our own responsiblity in our broken relationships. I have done alot of soul searching for myself and made some incredible progress. I have learned in the last year alot about my hand in my last relationship and now have so much more to offer someone else. I dont’ want to be holding onto baggage…I want to go through it and get rid of what is bad
and take the good polish it up to be better for that next person in my life. Isn’t that what we all should be doing? Learning to be better? No one wants to take responsibility for themselves and their faults and actions. We just have to remember though that not all divorces are alike or circumstances especially things beyond peoples control. I just think that people whether divorced or never married need to learn from EVERY experience and use that to improve themselves. Got away from Kates’ problem, sorry
Kate. I say meet the guy and see what is there. Long distance relationships mean in time someone is gonna make a demographic move. Will it be you….or him? Things like this
you should consider….ponder those….what do you want? You mentioned this guy might be a player with no intention to get serious. Have you talked about that during one of your 5 hour conversations? What is he telling you and how does it feel when he tells you? Does it sound like a line? Are you familiar with what and how a player…..plays? You are right that you might meet and not have “chemistry”. I know its happened to me….so tests of all tests…meet and see…
Take things in levels, it passes the first then graduate to the next until seems absolutely necessary for you to end things. Wishing you the best……
Michael says
One reason people might not marry by the age of 40 is that they have not found a suitable person who wants to marry them.
It is difficult for me to meet women my own age who have never been married and never had children.
Maya says
It would never occur to me to think that there is something wrong with someone who is over 40 (or 30, or 100, etc) and never married. If someone was over 40 and never had any type of relationship ever, that would make me stop and think a bit. But marriage? I don’t care.
40neverkissed says
I’m 40 and never kissed. 100 percent of the women will auto reject me.
Diana says
Steve, you forgot to mention that you kill bugs, too. Just teasing. 🙂
Curly Girl says
I very much believe that staying single is a very healthy relationship option. As do many sociologists/ psychologists/ researchers, even though this idea is against mainstream “marriagemania,” as Dr. Bella DePaulo writes in her blog on the Psychology Today site: blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-single.
Her book, “Living Single,” talks about the wrong-headed research that supports the “married is the only healthy way to be” belief. The book also points out the many ways that single people are discriminated against and discredits the stereotypes, many of which have been expressed on this board. She’s not anti-marriage, I have to point out–she’s just saying that you aren’t weird if you choose not to marry, just as you aren’t “healthy” because you choose to.
Also, another interesting article in the May issue of “Self” magazine about a woman who is in her early 40s and not married and how during her 20s/30s she internalized all the negative messages about being “still” single–which in most corners is synonymous with “defective” (or why would EMK ask the question in the title of this blog entry?) She spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out what was “wrong” with her, even as she saw so many people who clearly had things wrong with them getting married and receiving the societal stamp of approval. Finally, she just gave it up and concluded that she just hadn’t met the right guy, and that was the only reason she was unattached. She did, after 8 years or so without a significant other, meet someone and embark on committed relationship.
I did suggest to EMK that it’s possible to be single and happy and healthy and dating and NOT looking to get married or in an LTR and what about that; he wasn’t so receptive, but then there were some blogs along those lines (why are so many successful people single, why NOT to settle, etc.). So I was happy he opened it up.
Kristyn says
I’m so much more interested in the why’s than the whats. Why is someone divorced? Why has someone stayed single. Its not that they are – its why they are. I’m divorced, I don’t consider myself “defective” at relationships – I was married for 18 years and am divorced due to things beyond my control. I would hope that someone would (if they were interested) get to know me, see who I really am, listen to what I say, and watch what I do rather than dismiss simply because I’m divorced. Therefore, I do the same for others. We are all so individually unique that it seems even if we have the same story how it shapes who we are can be completely different for each individual.
@ Steve –
I’m glad you pointed out that your list could go either for divorcees or never marrieds. Again — its all according to the individual; some cheat, some don’t; some have poor relationship skills, some don’t. Except maybe the baggage – i think thats universal.
Karl R says
VR said: (#18)
“Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho.”
I can’t imagine discriminating against someone solely due to their previous marital status.
However, I can’t see why being still single is a red flag, and being divorced is not.
Earlier this week I was looking at divorce statistics provided by the CDC. For women who got married the first time at the age of 25+, there was a 24% chance that the marriage would fail by the 10 year mark. For women who got married the second time at the age of 25+, there was a 34% chance that the marriage would fail by the 10 year mark. That’s a 40% higher failure rate on second marriages. (Extrapolating, that’s a 60% to 70% chance that the marriage would fail over the long run.)
And this afternoon I found book online discussing divorce and infidelity (“Marital and sexual lifestyles in the United States” by Linda P. Rouse).
59% of divorced women have had an extra-marital affair (compared to 25% of married women).
Just looking at the statistics, there’s about a 60% chance that you have a history of marital infidelity, and there’s about a 60% chance that your next marriage will end in divorce. Why are the single people considered to be the “defective” ones?
And if you’d like potential dates to avoid judging you for being a divorcee, why don’t you extend the same courtesy to single people?
Michael says
Finally, she just gave it up and concluded that she just hadn’t met the right guy, and that was the only reason she was unattached. She did, after 8 years or so without a significant other, meet someone and embark on committed relationship.
This could be a possibility.
For example, I know of zero qualified, available women my age (31) who have never been married and never had kids. And I have absolutely no clue as to how to find them. The woman in the above example probably had a similar problem.
Londongirl says
Wow, this is interesting. Imagine flipping it round to ‘Is there something wrong with a woman in her 40s who has never been married before?’….
Going back to Kate’s question – my gut reaction is, this guy lives in another town, he’s been calling you for six weeks and you still haven’t arranged to meet (but you’re spending money on ‘five-hour’ calls). Hmm, I don’t think he’s talking about the weather, do you? More to the point, he could already be married, for all you know. Don’t you feel like saying ‘either pee or get off the pot’ (in a polite way of course). It’s time you met up, or moved on…
Steve says
@Londongirl post #42
I agree. Additionally, you don’t know a person from emails and telephone conversations. You only know them from spending time with them. I know that sounds judgmental, but I think anyone who has done it both ways will agree. The big danger with the former route is that people’s (I’ve done it ) imaginations unconsciously fill in the blanks with good things. You meet the person you’ve had a virtual relationship with only to discover that they are someone else and to be disappointed.
I don’t like meeting someone after just 3 emails, but as soon as it feels like I will not be on a date with a total stranger I like to meet ASAP.
Steve says
@Karl
You copied off of my paper! Its okay though, your research and statistics are better than mine 🙂
Jennifer says
@Michael #41- Well if you count a blog message board, now you know one. You honestly don’t know *any*? Are you in a very sparsely populated town?
Curly Girl says
I’ve never been married but have been in a couple of long relationships–one three years, one six to seven. We discussed getting married in both of those relationships but we knew it wasn’t going to work, in both cases because of incompatible long-term goals.
And I never want to go through a divorce, so in retrospect I am very, very happy with the decisions I have made.
By contrast, my sister was married and divorced twice by the age of 40 with nary a break in between the two husbands. At the age of 42 she is now making plans to marry husband #3.
Guess which one of us is considered “defective”?
And I’ve heard other single women saying that they get this insinuated, too–a lot of people think you’re “weird” for never having married, but these same people will go on and on about how awful their ex is/was, how screwed they were in the divorce, etc. But somehow, if you take steps to avoid such horrors in your life, you aren’t fully human, and you are certainly not fully female, and always, your sexuality is suspect because, as we have read countless times on this board, female sexuality is all about getting to the LTR. 🙂
It has been my experience that people who think non-marrieds are defective also feel special or superior because they are married. Anymore I just flat out refuse to listen to people who want to abuse my good will by complaining about their present or former marriages ad nauseum, as if marriage is the only legitimate form of relationship, and we should all be so concerned about what’s going on within it. If it were a two-way street about my intimate relationships, which are not “sanctioned,” I’d be OK with it. But is isn’t, so I’m not.
Oh, and I don’t listen to women friends who are unattached but desperate to find a guy and being all depressed about it, either, which is a way of putting themselves down.
I believe I am supporting these people by offering a different point of view.
Curly Girl says
LondonGirl: I thought about this, too–what if the question were reversed. Though I don’t think EMK would dare on this board!!!:)
I think the assumption in that case would be that the woman is unattractive or crazy. Though I think that assumption is just a stereotype and is wrong. In my case, so many people have said to me, truly puzzled, that they don’t see why I am not married (implying that a man didn’t “pick” me) when I am cute and successful and not crazy. It took me a long time to come up with the answer, which is, truthfully, that I chose not to be. (Not opposed–I might choose to marry in the future, if it seems like a good thing. I don’t have a problem attracting guys and I love my guy friends.)
For many women like me marriage poses a lot of risks and not nec. a lot of reward. I have a thriving career and make a lot of money–now, but it wasn’t so when I was starting out. And had I married someone whose career was “more important” than mine (and for some reason, the guy’s career was always “more important” than mine), I would have given up my main years of professional development. Had I had children in a marriage it would have been a worse situation. Would I want to have children with a guy who is all full of bluster about his career, dismissive of mine, and who can’t even pick up his socks or wash a dish or cook a meal? Or know enough to hire someone to do it?
Unfortunately, those were my options in my 20s, the prime years for getting married. I’m in an unusual career and I was very insecure starting out; had I been different I’m sure I would have attracted a different sort of guy, and if guys my age were raised with different expectations of women it would have been easier, too. But it was the way it was, and I have no regrets except that I didn’t figure all of this out sooner and come up with better responses to the rude assumptions about me.
I am just hitting my stride professionally, and it is so gratifying that it all paid off, that I made the right choices for me and didn’t succumb to the pressure. I would have been so miserable, and so would have those unfortunate enough to have been in my sphere of influence.
Which is why I push back against the marriage-mania mentality. Marriage isn’t the best decision for everyone, and women who love their careers and don’t want to give them up or have their work come second have a lot to consider in choosing a mate. It isn’t just the guys “rejecting” successful women; it’s successful women “rejecting” them–better to be alone than cut out a part of yourself to please someone. (And thank heavens there are guys who like us for us!! :))
Given the financial nightmare that ensues when a traditional marriage ends, “traditional” being where the wife doesn’t work outside the home and raises the kids (in my state and the ones around me a guy might be called upon to pay alimony to his ex for life), I can also appreciate that guys would be very hesitant to marry, too.
We all need to listen to our guts and choose wisely.
downtowngal says
In my observation, guys, more so than women, get used to routines. They become set in their ways, and don’t seem to work on themselves in such a way that would enable them to become suitable marriage partners.
Evan, I applaud you for your advice/reasons why a guy may be single passed 40. I keep an open mind when dating, but more often than not, unfortunately, every time I’ve dated a guy over 40 who’s never been married it hasn’t been a good experience. Just a few examples, (1) rude on the phone/on the date (2) has had numerous LTR’s but never ended up married because he told me the women all “ended up going psycho” (3) are either too afraid to make the effort of don’t know what they want (i.e. after a great date where we disussed going out again, I receive a txt message 10 days later saying, ‘let me know if you want to get together soon’). (4) Has a history of dating women who are emotionally unavailable and complains, WHILE ON THE DATE W ME, that he can’t find a nice, decent, intelligent woman who’s ready (5) met at a party, spoke on the phone a couple of times soon afterwards, made plans and then he goes AWOL – and I found out he’d done this w other women. And he’s still single. (6) Rejected me because of my age – 36 instead of 34 – and he’s 39 and never had a gf.
Contrast this to guys at that age who’ve already been married, they know how to date and have realistic expectations of what makes a good marriage/ltr partner. And my guy friend who are married are the first ones to advise me never to put up with the examples I noted above.
I’m sure there are reasons why some 40+ women remain single, I think it’s different. If you survey never-married women 40+, I’ll bet most will say they’ve been in love with at least one guy in a LTR who couldn’t commit or did something really bad. I’m not as sure you’d hear that from the guys. A friend of mine wh’s a social worker counseling people w relationship issues confirms my theory.
Again, Evan, thx for sheading some light. I’ll continue to keep an open mind and screen out the rif-raf.
JoeK says
It’s interesting how you label men as the flawed component for both stereotypes:
“If you survey never-married women 40+, I’ll bet most will say they’ve been in love with at least one guy in a LTR who couldn’t commit or did something really bad.”
So men over 40 who haven’t married are usually full of bad habits/behaviors personalities, while women over 40 who haven’t married are because “man can’t commit” or who are “bad”.
How convenient.
As Evan repeatedly states – If a man isn’t asking a woman to marry him, then she isn’t “the one” for him in his mind. To him she isn’t marriage material – that’s where the idea that there’s something “wrong” with her originates. “Couldn’t commit” is just wording used to mask this.
I
Kenley says
Curly Girl,
I find that I often agree with your posts as I am single woman in her 40’s who has never married or lived with anyone because I never wanted children and I just didn’t see any point in getting married since I don’t want children.
Perhaps the people around me — family, friends, co-workers — have been unusual, but none of them have ever gaven me a hard time for not wanting to get married or to have children — and to your point, I’m not ugly, mean or crazy. I just never acted ashamed or sorry or apologetic for not wanting those things. When people ask me why I didn’t want to get married or have children I just say I’m not selfless enough to be a great wife and mother and that I don’t think enough people regard marriage or parenthood with the respect and reverence they should while I do.
While I don’t want those things, however, what I don’t do is point out why other people shouldn’t get married and have children. I don’t point out all the horrible divorces and bad kids etc. Because for every messy divorce, there are women (and maybe one or two guys) who are absolutely miserable because they aren’t married with kids. So, to me the answer is to live and let live. Everyone should do what they feel is right for them and their decisions should be respected and supported.
You did mention how you are glad that you chose your career over marriage and kids. From my perspective, career and money are not the end all and be all either. I know many people who gave their lives to their professions — neglecting friends, family, and all else — for the company and to make money. Only success mattered. This economy has forced some people to rethink their values. As these people have lost their jobs and their money and for some their self esteem and purpose, they have come to realize organizations will use you and toss you aside without hesitation….kind of the way a husband or wife might in a marriage.
Michael says
Well if you count a blog message board, now you know one. You honestly don’t know *any*? Are you in a very sparsely populated town?
I honestly do not know any women my age who have never been married and never had kids who are qualified and available.
So many women I know from college, who used to be in that category, are married now. The others have boyfriends. I want to get married so I could prove to them that I am just as good as they are.
Ava says
@ Curly Girl, I’m right there with ya, although I would like to be in an LTR…my self-esteem and relationship choices are much better now than in my 20’s and 30’s.
@ VR: “Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho”.
I fail to see the importance of someone having had “a youthful, silly marriage”. What is so great about someone having met Ms. Wrong, and going ahead and marrying her anyway? Perhaps a person shows better judgment by NOT marrying the wrong person?
downtowngal says
Michael, you should want to get married because it’s the right thing for YOU, not to prove something to others. I think one of the reasons there are so many divorces/unhappy marriages is because people marry for the wrong reasons.
And do you live near a large city? You may have better luck finding someone than if you live in the burbs, maybe get involved w activities you enjoy i.e. cycling club, skiing, acting.
Which brings the question, how would you define “qualified” as a partner?
Don’t take this the wrong way, but from reading your posts you sound a little down on yourself. I know plenty of women over 40 in your position who would love to meet a good guy. Keep your spirits up, I’m sure that if you make the effort you’ll find the right gal and defy the ‘over 40-never-married’ stereotype. good luck!
hunter says
40 or 50 and never married, divorced, etc., what amazes me, is how we all meet at the same internet site, singles activities, etc.
hunter says
…pointing fingers, whining, complaining..
Jura says
Great points, downtowngal. As for me (female, 33), the greatest fear is a “stringer” who toys with a woman for 3, 5, 7, 10 years to never commit, but honestly, it does not matter how old they (“stringers”) are. But it is easy to suspect a 40 year old never married man to be one, had he been in more than one dead-end long term relationship.
Michael says
Oh, and I don’t listen to women friends who are unattached but desperate to find a guy and being all depressed about it, either, which is a way of putting themselves down.
I do not know of any women who was desperate to find a guy.
Where can I find such women?
Don’t take this the wrong way, but from reading your posts you sound a little down on yourself.
So many women that I know from college, who are the same age or younger, are married.
Curly Girl says
Downtown: I’ve had female friends make this observation, too, that of the single people they know in their 40s the women are all amazing and it isn’t clear why they’re single but the single guys are a little weird and you can tell why they’re single. I think that’s a little harsh, but I’ve met a lot of weird guys on dates, too, like you have, and there does seem to be a particular breed of icky-never married-over 40 guy.
Kenley: The reason I bring up the negative statistics about marriage is to counteract the overwhelmingly ubiquitous message in our culture that you have to be married to fit in, be normal, etc. And that message is directed especially at females, and from a very young age. If you did not absorb that message or knew early on in your life to ignore it, I applaud you, and you are lucky and you are rare. If more people understood just how serious marriage is from an emotional, financial, and legal point of view–and how devestating a bad one is–perhaps there would be fewer bad marriages and fewer miserable people.
Again, my pet peeve: People dumping their marriage woes (or “lack of marriage” woes) on me while discounting my close relationships. I am getting better at setting boundaries around this issue, though, so more and more I am not caring as much.
Curly Girl says
Downtown: There is also another category of the over-40 guy who is dating: enraged-at-ex guy, where you can see exactly why he is divorced. This kind of guy can be very judgmental about women who have never been married. It’s very amusing!
The guy I’m seeing now is in his 40s, never married. And not weird or creepy or angry, and very cute and stable. When I asked him if he had ever been engaged or married, he said no, that it hadn’t happened, that as soon as he’d fallen in love they always started to break up. And that he didn’t see many happy marriages anyway, so no incentive.
See? As the saying goes, every old sock finds an old shoe. He does speak somewhat kindly of being married some day. And we are in the same profession (different kind of jobs), so I don’t have to explain anything about my passion there, and that’s one of things we find in each other–a rare understanding.
hunter says
Curlygirl, icky-never married over 40 guys?…hhmmh, how funny…I would rephrase that to, “clueless” on account of his not being informed/trained by other women or, he was just dealt the wrong deck of cards from the beginning. Usually, these men are plain average looks(very intelligent, bright, in other areas), but men that women overlook at a young age.
Paul says
I have been rejected by every single woman i’ve ever met from Jr. High School onwards.
Over the years ‘ve tried dating coach, fashion consultants, personal trainers. went to the length of e-mailing 5 women a day on two dating sites each day for a entire calendar year with zero return responses, been to double digit speed dating events with 0 women picking me as a match. Had professional match making service try and, been on a local reality show.
Dating, or even having a girl friend let alone a relationship feels impossible. Can’t even imagine asking someone to marry me.
I have no clue how it happens, what unites people, no one has ever flirted with me without trying to sell me something.
I own a 4 bedroom house I was hoping to fill with a wife and children some day, but i’m approaching 40 and convinced it won’t happen and evidently, no one wants me.
Grenoble says
Zero matches at speed dating events? Ouch. That’s one of the reasons I’d be a little nervous about speed dating. What if I ended up being the guy that no one wanted to match with? However, it’s possible several girls chose you and you just didn’t choose them in return. You probably wouldn’t know unless you both matched.
But you just gotta keep asking out the women you are attracted to. It sounds like you’ve done a lot of self-improvement, so someone is bound to like you.
Paul says
I selected an average of 70 to 90% of the women at every event disregarding matches that were so far out of my age ranges or obviously not interested and the odd woman that I ran into more than once.
downtowngal says
CG, thx for the post, glad to hear you found a great guy! Honesltly it doesn’t sound as if he’s wanted to get married, guess he’s been burned, but either way i wish you all be best!!
And Hunter, I’ve seen less-than-average looking-former-nerdy guys get married and settle down. but what I’ve found is that many of these same types of guys who remain single don’t open themselves up – now that they’re successful and their skin has cleared up they still carry the same insecurities – they overlook women who are smart, fun and ‘merely’ attractive and instead try to go after supermodels. I see it a lot in NY, it’s really sad.
Steve says
@VR, #18
Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho.
I cringe when I think of how obtuse and irresponsible I was at the age of 18. Yet, even at that age I would have taken marriage as a serious and major commitment. I wouldn’t have taken it as “youthful, silly” thing to do.
If I was as quick to judge your comment as you are to judge men who simply belong to a particular demographic I would question your judgment.
Steve says
@Cilla post #32
I understand where you are coming from about people who are set in their ways as far as living arrangements go. I’ve had housemates like that…..of all ages.
Since I’ve lived in many shared living situations I’ve had all of the downsides of dealing with housemates and none of the upsides of being married. I’ve learned to play nice with others in that situation and be flexible. I don’t think I am the only over 40 single person who learned those lessons.
BTW, I’m currently in a relationship with a man who is also divorced. We are both divorced because our spouses cheated on us. Does that make US the defective ones? I don’t think so
Why not?
I’ve heard many people say that spouses are inspired to cheat by not getting something at home. I think that reasoning is wrong ethically, but sometimes it does help partially explain things.
Maybe you let your appearances go. Maybe you worked all of the time and ignored your spouse. Maybe you gave up on your life.
Feel insulted? Do you feel like telling me that I don’t know anything about you, your life or the situation with your ex?
Do you feel unfairly labeled?
You are absolutely right.
That is what us defective over 40 never marrieds are getting from comments like yours.
Steve says
@Curly Girl;
You are rightfully railing against people who prejudge single never married women, yet you along with DTG are posting prejudgment after prejudgment in a number of comments on this thread.
Michael says
But it is easy to suspect a 40 year old never married man to be one, had he been in more than one dead-end long term relationship.
And if he never had a relationship at all ?
Curly Girl says
Steve: You seem to think that I’m saying all over-40 unmarried guys fall into the categories of “prejudgement” that you say Downtown was mentioning. Not so! But I do recognize the truth in what DTG is saying generally.
There are some guys over 40 who are weird in a very specific, icky way. One such guy is the aging player, who believes he should be with someone younger and hotter and who treats women his own age with contempt. He probably always treated women with contempt, but he when he was younger it was women his own age and he was probably cute. This type of bad male behavior does not age well.
Then there is the guy who describes all ex girlfriends or the ex wife as “crazy” or “psycho” or, my personal favorite, “bipolar.” After awhile with one of these guys you begin to see why he always has this impression of women–because he’s a crazymaking person. This type of bad behavior (in both genders) is also always there, but it is the sheer number of “crazy” people in this person’s past, built up over many years, that is the tip-off.
The set-in-his-ways guy. I actually never went out with a guy like this. But I would say he was probably always controlling; at first it might be quirky and even charming, but after a couple of decades of that it just comes off as boring and unimaginative and insufferable.
And here are some generalizations for unmarried over-35 women that I’ve heard (yes, the weirdness age drops for women!):
Middle-aged New Age woman who’s into all kinds of esoterica and is waiting for a soulmate. Usually some kind of creative person (actress, painter, jewelry maker) who does massage therapy on the side and is always broke and into worshipping her “feelings.”
Dried-up, angry manhater into her career with no soft edges to her life and no relationships at all. Never gives the guy the time of day, needs to argue and compete with him. Doomed to die alone unless she forges some great commitment to a cat.
And so it goes. If you visit Italy and notice that the train departures never match the posted times, you might draw the conclusion that trains in Italy are always late. And you might go back to the US and say that the trains in Italy are always late. So people make generalizations. And they start to alter their behavior based on the general assumptions they are making, which may be a good call or may be a bad call. Generalizations are often spot on. And sometimes a bad call actually elicits the very behavior we profess to despise in others. If you only date guys, you might attribute these behaviors in a general way to guys. And vice versa if you only date women.
We’re all crazy.
downtowngal says
CG, LOL!!!
…now please exuse me as I spend quality time w my cat because I have no friends to discuss why I’m sexually frustrated as men are all evil…..
Steve says
#65 and #66
Blech. No thank you.
Lance says
What’s wrong with Irish guys?
Here’s my advice: just ask the guy why he hasn’t been married at age 42, converse about it, and then make a call on whether the reasons are good enough for you. Also, Kate, what’s your age and have you been married before? Are you a divorced single parent? To me, that’s a red flag. Go with your gut on this one.
Lance´s last blog post…Away We Go
James says
I am going to chime in on the Steve/Cilla argument, Evan’s comments who according to his info is 36 and thus considered a million times younger than me at 37 to the new female invented paradigm of the molding male. Yes it’s new as if you actually talk to your mothers, grandmothers or actually crack a book you will find that it used to be…just 20 years ago that a “Eligible Bachelor” was mostly a male > 30 years old, never married, financially stable, who initially focused on his career and then after also getting his own shit together and becoming a centered person on his own went to look for the woman to actually marry for the rest of his life, not just under a decade to prove that they like keeping lawyers employed. Look it up people it’s true.
Some of us men (mostly Gen-X) were told this pattern by…our mothers who pretty much followed the selection path of marrying a guy who generally met this criteria and/or she got divorced and also made you very sketchy about marriage as a disposable commodity. That is a generational thing as my parents had an awful divorce that my mother initiated not long after no fault kicked in, but besides that awful situation (that my single 39 year old sister didn’t like) it taught a true lesson that our once, twice three times in the past two decades divorcees may not have learned.
The real reasons for divorce as in my mothers case is usually a combination of:
1) People who are not emotionally whole on their own and get into a co-dependent relationship that implodes.
2) People still trying to figure out who they are and by the time they do they realize the other person doesn’t match.
3) People who try to manage or change the other person to fit their ideal mold and it implodes at some point.
4) People who marry “at the right time” to a person who on the surface seems “a good match” according to society and spend the next 1-10 years to figure out that the surface crap didn’t matter and they at the personality level they had little or nothing in common…except maybe demographics.
5) People who decide that the idea of being married and having kids can make them happy enough to pretend…and then it implodes.
6) People who bullshit themselves and others as to who they really are and eventually can’t keep it up.
7) People who continually date and marry people like the above and never think their choices have something to do with it.
8) Secret masochists who like complaining about bad relationships more than being in a good relationship. (This is the “all men are” or “all women are” people.)
9) Young people that don’t even let the relationship develop enough to get past early crush/infatuation/hormones.
10) Lazy and picky people who cannot accept normal human flaws and refuse to work at any relationship themselves, but often try to delegate that responsibility to the other person who is always wrong, and they are always right.
11) Like daters who are never alone…Marriage becomes a bus-stop until a ride to a better destination comes along.
12) Those who treat it totally frivolously and some who game the divorce system like an ATM and may still have all 11 reasons above, but always run to the lawyer to get their pound of flesh and it is rarely men(see courts stats all Divorces…70% women initiate).
13) Someone has major emotional issues that they hide really, really well…until after married…explosion then implosion.
Does this mean I’m saying this is you as a Divorcee? No. Unlike missile launches it only takes one person fitting any of the above 13 reasons I just rattled off to cause divorce or just as easily any relationship failure. These are strange times where it also takes longer to get established, education costs and loans are far higher and the starting pay is less in real dollars as it has been declining since 1972, which the value of all dollars has reduced via inflation worldwide. (unless you are in the AIG group…then money is free!)
Many of us tried to avoid the mistakes of our parents, esp. if we went through a bad divorce as children, had to pay some or a lot of our way, but still wanted to be in the ideal stable and formerly eligibly bachelor position to be ready to start a family in every way without a bunch of practice marriages. Men especially saw the financial cost of bad selection or being duped by our friends and wanted to do it right the first time and thus “picky”.
As Steve said and my sister and I both researched heavily (and shame on you Evan for not bringing up data)…every single well done study says that the chances or odds for a successful marriage is always greater if it is the first time for both and handicapped for each divorce either partner does, but apparently after 3 divorces most can get remarried, but men at that stage are far more likely to marry the last time than women. (like he said…the data is out there). It was actually the number one dominant factor against or for marriage success and there was also data showing that getting married for the first time over 30 increased chances of a lasting marriage. Lots more data if you want to look it up, but most of it is the opposite of the myths mentioned and Evan echoed at least statistically spread by suspicious Divorcees who wonder why we didn’t dive into the murky water.
Establishing career is likely the best answer to the not-messed up man and in some cases it takes more time. They wanted to have time for the family so figured work like mad as a single and then you are stable for a family. Used to make sense before women became so paranoid and picky themselves. Online dating studies show that for the most part women are far more picky and unrealistic than men and in this case she’s going 100s or 1000s of miles to find Mr. Perfect (who rarely exists) instead of Mr. Normal and okay closer to home.
Evan’s own advice says that one of the #1 mistakes women make online is using it to limit their options by allowing their demographic shopping go nuts (>6ft, > $100K, Blue Eyes, Blond Hair, Can’t be balding at all, etc.) instead of using it to expand their options, email and chat with more men locally as a pre-screening process to coffee dates to see if you actually click with more than his personal resume. The saddest and worst thing is most female lists these days are so far from what would make them happy it’s scary…seen my sister revise hers for more than a decade…she dated players/jerks/pretty-boys for almost 20 years before she figured out her list sucked.
So is there an objective scientifically validated reason why men have or might have such a bias on women’s age? Yes. At 27 years old on average all women’s fertility starts to decline and chances of all types of birth issues (defect, miscarriages, etc) goes up exponentially. The raw numbers were never in dispute…a bunch of medical associations were trying to get the word out about such a simple fact and NOW shut them down. Do men have the same problem? Nope. Not generally and not on average and not to the degrees the myth makers would have you believe. I read most of the good studies and if the measure is the absolute probability in birth or birth defects of the baby itself or chances to conceive…the maternal age swamps any effect of the paternal age which only starts to show a significant effect after 55 years old. I checked for myself as I considered freezing some stuff of mine just in case. Men’s health is far more important and can change the quality of their sperm as we regenerate it daily. Women carry around the same eggs since birth and they age and are mostly unaffected by the woman’s general health.
So for a man in good or at least better than average shape of 35, 30, 45 or even 50 with everything else perfect with the exception of a story to explain which if it doesn’t come up by you in the first 3 dates then you are a moron is WHY didn’t he get married, what’s he been up to and where he sees himself in 5-10 years…and if he’s married with kids then. For the better communicating sex women somehow forget basic communication or honest sharing when your are ready before getting serious?!? Forget about our age…grow the F up if you can’t talk!
So what’s my dark secret?
Short version:
1) Everything I said above was true about divorce of my parents was true and it was awful for about a decade after for us kids caught between two twits who probably never should have got married. I respect marriage to much to want a disposable one and I do not want one to implode and also mess with my future kids lives as the children always suffer the sins of the parents. One time for life with a whole person who has her shit together.
2) Bachelor stuff I said was true and money stuff too and if I lived in the 70s or even 80s at my current age…no one would care. But this is a post-feminist era that still tells myths that don’t stand up to science or biology and you wonder why there are 40+ women heading to the sperm banks…no good men…it ain’t us.
3) I had some bad luck and fell in love with and dated a girl who fit 13) above. Lucky we didn’t get married as she turned into literally the women from Fatal Attraction, except I had no bunny to boil. She took drugs, alcohol, both, tried to commit suicide and would call me up after we broke up for “attention” and I’d rush her to the hospital. She stalked me…called me from hundreds of numbers by living in a 1000 girl dorm and going from room to room and call block only covers 20 numbers. She broke into my house on drugs and drunk and was violent. When did this all happen? It was supposed to be my 4th and final year in engineering…I flunked out…had to claw my way back into a local university where my Dad had some pull…they forced me to repeat so much crap with a new engineering degree it took me another 3-years to graduate and I got a job immediately that I still have (well I’ve moved up some).
Do you know what the Jews say (Hi Evan), “Never again!” I vowed that I would never take the chance of having a woman almost destroy my life because I cared too much and had no where to run. So I determined to stabilize my life and myself so that I was 100% bedrock top to bottom. Paid off all my student loans in full. Bought and own my own car. Bought my first home(condo) with a huge down payment by living back at home to save cash. Kept my job in a bad area/industry (Detroit/Auto) and worked like a dog to be respected with awards and a stellar resume so that I can walk or find new stuff if needed.
I dated a bit on and off, but nothing serious and much like the monks I contemplated my past, myself and not only came to terms, but I’m so centered now that no one can knock me off my life balance…at work or personally. So I’m now looking like my 40 something com padre Steve against the backdrop of some of the most superficial women ever who will either date guys just on their pure looks, or other demographic reasons, blindly sleep with all the bar players and get bitter against all men as well as filtering more and more in the wrong direction (as I have seen in my sister).
Men generally haven’t changed. Women have. They’ve lost the knowledge their mothers had in many cases, listen to crap from the mags and Opra-h. Create consensus on how men are with other women…rarely talking to an actual man about men. They stopped trying to know us and stopped trying to understand and accept us (at least statistically…see Bill Maher’s making women nod bit) and the Mars/Venus thing is true. What’s worse is women have forgotten who they are and what attributes in men would really make them happy if they can accept us as being real men. The world has become so anti-male it is hard to tell anymore of the true nature of men is known by any women at all, well beyond psychologists who see the gap themselves.
Women who actually start meeting guys with a wider net for coffee dates over bars can quickly separate the players and the 40+ single men who either have issues or have legit shit that happened to them that made them decide to wait a bit. Ask them about their life, their hopes, their dreams, their history their future and share yours honestly and organically and not like an interview and you will know very quickly. If you can’t do this yourself…maybe you aren’t ready or centered enough to get back out there and need some “me” time!
Selena says
CG #65
Your post made me smile. I was involved with a man for a time who claimed his ex-wife “slowly went crazy”. As months rolled by I could see why. HE was a bit crazy himself and was making me crazy being with him. Lasted longer than it should have.
Since I’ve been reading relationship websites, I’ve discovered it’s best not to refer to an ex as “crazy” because saying so is a reflection upon yourself. Why did you stay with a crazy person ?- defective. Or it shows bitterness, or a denial in your part of the destruction of the relationship – again, defective.
Also the point Steve made about cheating: are you not in some small way at fault if your partner cheated on you? I mean, at the very least, you CHOSE that cheating partner didn’t you? – defective.
If you have had previous relationships that ended for any reason, obviously SOMETHING didn’t work out to your liking, otherwise you would still be with that person. So why should never married people be considered defective in some way, regardless of their relationship history? Maybe they have successfully avoided the crazies, and the cheaters? Maybe they caught on to the crazies and the cheaters BEFORE they married them? ( I did! I did!)
Or maybe you are right Curly Girl…we’re all crazy. Yeah.
Cilla says
@ Selena
I still think (and I know I’ll get flamed here, as Lance says) that, if the commentary here is any reflection of the dating world at large, there is big difference between unmarried women and unmarried men. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. And I’m sure, as a woman, I’m biased.
Many of the women posting here either seem to have ducked unhealthy relationships or are just comfortable being single. The men seem to have also skirted some bad partnerships, but seem more traumatized by them (surprising). They also come across to me as a little bitter about women and given to long lists (full of statistics and scientific information) of why they’re still single.
Guys, you doth protest too much, methinks. Some of the comments here pique my intuition about the “icky” component mentioned by previous posters.
Ava says
#70 Serena, I agree.
Crazy people have serious relationships with other crazy people. Unless perhaps he was very young, any time a man tells me how horrible/crazy/miserable his ex was, I get suspicious.
Diana says
To James, this isn’t intended to sound like pity, but I am sorry she hurt you so deeply, and your parents, too. My impression is that your resulting pain and anger pushed you to excel even more, pushing you to become the man you admire today. I hope you find the kind of woman you are searching for, assuming you are. They are not all as you describe.
Cilla says
@ Ava
I agree, if a man says every relationship he has been in has been with a “crazy” person, I’d say “You spot it, you got it,” meaning he’s likely the “crazy” one and induces “crazy-making” behavior (sometimes referred to as “gaslighting” from the old movie with Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman.
However, I just can’t get behind your contention that “crazy people have relationships with other crazy people,” assuming that “crazy” means mentally ill, unstable, bipolar, depressed, etc., and that one needs to be “crazy” to be involved with a “crazy” person. There are plenty of “normal” people in relationships with “crazy” people.
There are whole support networks for family and friends of people with mental illness, just as there are for people who must deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, etc. You wouldn’t say “alcoholics have serious relationships with other alcoholics” as blanket rule, would you? In fact, more often than not, addicts and people with mental illness (sometimes they overlap) seek out “normal” partners who function as enablers or foils for their behavior. Two disordered people in a relationship is usually the recipe for rapid self-destruction. It happens, but the Kurt Cobain/Courtney Love type of combination is the exception, not the rule. And look what it did to him.
Karl R says
Cilla said: (#71)
“I still think […] there is big difference between unmarried women and unmarried men. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. And I’m sure, as a woman, I’m biased.”
I’d agree that you’re biased, and it also sounds like a self-serving bias.
“They also come across to me as a little bitter about women and given to long lists (full of statistics and scientific information) of why they’re still single.”
A few of the guys do sound bitter about women. (And some of the women sound bitter about men. Welcome to this blog.) Does Steve sound bitter? Do I?
I use statistics because they’re more accurate than anecdotes. I can find a single anecdote or a few anecdotes to support almost any claim at all, including ones I know are dead wrong.
And if I gave a single reason why I was still single, would that sound remotely reasonable?
Even if the reason was “the man is defective”, that wouldn’t prevent a man from getting married. I know a schizophrenic who has been married twice, and he’s dating again. (He’s rather creepy even when he’s on his meds.)
Unless you get to know someone personally (and possibly rather well), you won’t know why he or she is still single. The same is true for knowing why someone is divorced.
“Guys, you doth protest too much, methinks.”
Is that any different from any other group on this blog who feel that they’re unfairly biased against? (Short men, older women, blacks & hispanic women, asian men, etc.)
“(and I know I’ll get flamed here, as Lance says)”
If you really want to get flamed, go suggest that older women are bitter and ‘doth protest too much’ about being overlooked in online dating.
Ava says
@ Cilla #74
Sorry for tossing off the sweeping generalization. Of course, you’re right. I guess what I’m saying is that sane people don’t knowingly embark on, or stay in, serious relationships with those who are actively “crazy” and not seeking, or having sought, treatment.
Helen says
Cilla: I know plenty of men in their 40s who are contentedly single, not “crazy” or desperate. They are usually very happy with their jobs and outside activities. Maybe it’s not safe to generalize about single men or women of any age.
Karl R: definitely agree that statistics are far superior to anecdotes! It’s annoying when someone offers up an anecdote and seems to think that it proves the general case. (You’re totally my kind of guy, but I’m already taken.)
Steve says
@Karl, #75
You can’t reason with a person who has already decided that she wants a particular opinion to be right no matter what. Thanks for trying though. It was refreshing to read your points.
Selena says
I suspect by the 40’s there are relatively few persons (male or female) who haven’t had at least one serious relationship that ended for whatever reason. I’ve had the opportunity to be married 4 times by age 45. I would also have had to opportunity to be divorced 4 times by the age of 46. Probably the only reason I am not a multiple divorcee is because I lived with each of my partners a number of years. Long enough to decide I didn’t want to make a lifetime commitment to each fellow’s particular brand of “craziness” – instability, choosing work over family, cheating, alcoholism. Does this make me “smart” or a commitmentphobe? Frankly, I think if anything it shows I didn’t take the vow of marriage frivolously. And *I* would presume the same of other never-marrieds over 40.
As a 48 yr. old spinster (heh heh) I think I’ve had a pretty full life (so far!). It includes a son and two grandsons. I could be bitter, but where’s the fun in that? So am I defective because I never married? Or am I defective because I’ve had relationships that didn’t turn out as well as I had hoped they would? Maybe I’m not defective at all really, but how would you know without getting to know me personally? The point Karl and others have been trying to make on this thread. You will never know WHY people made the choices they did until they feel comfortable opening themselves up to you. But why bother with that when you can dismiss them up front for never having been married. Or having been divorced. Or having loved and lost and gone on to love again. More than once. I prefer to take each individual as they come. I get to hear alot of fascinating stories that way.
And to Ava #72
To quote the musician Seal: “You know we’re never gonna survive…Unless…We all get a little bit Craazzzy”
One of my favorite songs. Obviously. LOL
Cilla says
@ Helen
I didn’t say the men were crazy or desperate–I believe you are referring to another poster. I only used the word “crazy” in responding to Ava’s post.
I’m sure there are plenty of men who are contentedly single.
@ Steve @ Karl R
The key word in #75 is “opinion.” Like the other opinions expressed here, it’s not right or wrong–it’s simply my perception. I answered the question posed by the title of the blog from my point of view, as did other posters from theirs. I imagine that if Evan expected everyone to concur on this topic, he wouldn’t have asked about it in the first place. In giving my opinion, I used the phrase “yellow light,” saying it wasn’t an absolute rule, but something that gave me serious pause.
You are not exactly advancing the cause for the older, unmarried gentleman. You seem very insistent that I should want to date in that category, even though I’ve said I prefer not to. That insistence only serves to reinforce my preconceptions further.
As Evan wrote in I Can’t Believe I’m Buying This Book, “… generally a tall woman who says she doesn’t want to date a man who is 5’6″ means it.” It’s no different than a woman who doesn’t want to date a man who is of a certain age and never married. No amount of brow beating with statistics (source? confidence interval?) is likely to change that.
If you think I’m limiting my dating pool that way, you’re right, I am. As other posters have noted, dating isn’t always about keeping one’s options open–sometimes it’s about narrowing down the field to find the person you’re most compatible with.
James says
@Diana #73
Thanks and no insult taken! Actually lately I’ve been channeling more job/economic stress into other things including online posts as I am genuinely over…well let’s say coping very well from my movie like misadventure in love. I am still the chivalrous, but now more cynical knight that my mom originally raised who tries to do the right thing and sometimes gets screwed over for it.
Not to pile more on, but there was another time/life suckage factor that slowed me and my sister both down. Our mother almost died and got frontal lobe brain damage at a “family” baseball event by a intoxicated cousin when I was 17 and she was 19. We both managed the business for about a couple of years to some degree while she rehabilitated.
She took back “full control” when I was about 19 and went away to school and we eventually found out our mother still had “issues” and what used to be minor quirks were magnified to “Rain man” level behavior when she had episodes.(actually my mother literally grabbed the wheel of my car on the way back from the movie “Rain man” and we were lucky to not go into a huge ditch) My sister found out that essentially no one was really at the “wheel” when she came to help with the books and found the whole business ready to implode from neglect and with cash disappearing with bills not being paid.
We agreed to save our mother from herself…took power of attorney, fixed up the finances, etc….got it back in good shape and was going to roll it into a trust…when our Uncle jumped in and financially supported our mother suing us for control of the stuff we just wanted to save for her. After winning twice in court…we realized that in the end this fight would just drain the stuff we tried to save and gave up.
I ended up paying off most of the 5 figure lawyer bills myself. My mother lost her entire injury lawsuit because of the stuff she invented to beat our power of attorney control. The business eventually imploded later, my mom went broke…I got a last minute call with 24-48 hours before they seized the house I gathered all my guy friends and packed up as much stuff as we could, and I paid to have it in storage for about a year, then moved it twice, got her into public housing and she is now living a life more in line with her capabilities that is mostly paid for by disability and saved most of her stuff and got to sell lots of it for money. I got nothing but pain and grief mostly for doing all of that as well from her, but brain damage warps your view of reality.(no excuse for my uncle who was not available when the inevitable tower down fell completely)
So lets just say I lost a lot of good dating or soul mate hunting time while trying to be a good man/person and do the right thing and I have lots of “character” now, but fortunately a good sense of humor too. I am looking more seriously now. I started the online thing a couple of years ago when I got my place, but since the economic downturn started early here…I didn’t spend as much time on it as I would have liked or possibly should have. I actually read Evan’s online dating book, but misplaced it and came to get some refreshers before I sent out a few amusing openers to some potentials…only to find this article telling me how in 3 years I’m cooked and Evan not being the bright, insightful and usually a tad more honest expert he normally is. Then again he said most of his clients were women and I read his related topic that has obvious cross-overs on this one here:
https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/where-are-all-the-cute-successful-funny-interesting-men/
…as well as the other linked one, which made me suspect he is pretty careful not to bite the hand that feeds him, which is a shame as he would do a better service by being more honest rather than supporting comforting myths that won’t lead to happiness or self-realization and just provide easy things to blame or more artificial constraints between women and happiness with a good man.
He does say or imply one thing well even if he dances around it a bit. One of the bigger mindset issues is far too many women confuse “settling” with “compromising” and “style” vs. “substance”. A non-compromiser using style or surface attributes as her main initial guide or filter will continually be disappointed with the “quality” of the guy based on her pre-screening and selection criteria and also that whole two-way give and take thing.
I hope to somehow find my “very compatible, but not perfect” woman out there and just hope that I can get through her filter and twitchy “red-flag” detector, but this type of blog does not fill me full of hope. I am really funny in real life, but hoped the online dating thing would allow me to expand my reach to find really good personality, intelligence, politics, etc. fits…along with the cute/sexy thing.
Every statistical study I have read that has been well done has that the odds are not near as good as they should be for someone in my situation. I cautiously hope for the best, but remain the cynical idealist or perhaps realist who knows that he alone can’t fix societal myths influencing his chances of getting an even shot with a compatible woman of value…but I’m looking for my damn outlier, cause hell knows that I know I am one to some degree.
Here are two studies everyone snipping at each other in here should actually read front-to-back and then come back to throw down their 2-cents. Not sure why everyone else is ignoring my relevant points, but these days most people have attention spans slightly beyond hummingbird levels…my ideal mate must be intelligent, deep thinker, with an attention span and both open minded and critical thinking. Smarter than me would be ideal, but in the ballpark would do just fine.
What Makes You Click? Mate Preferences and Matching Outcomes in Online Dating
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Papers.cfm?abstract_id=895442
State of Our Unions 2002: Why Men Won’t Commit
Cilla says
Let me put it a different way:
I think margaritas are the bomb. I love to sit outside in the warm weather, eating Mexican food and having a margarita or two. I know hundreds of people who also like to do this. I’m sure around the world, there are millions.
I have a friend who drank one to many margaritas in college. Puked for hours. Horrible hangover the next day. She had one of the worst experiences possible with a margarita.
It doesn’t matter if margaritas are great to me. It doesn’t matter if statistically speaking, millions of people love margaritas. My friend’s personal experience with margaritas will keep her from ever trying one again.
Now, imagine that margaritas are single men over 40. See what I’m saying?
Margaret says
Cilla,
I am with you all the way. Although I am sure there are exceptions, in *general* I have found that men who are not married by their early 40s have one or another dealbreakers which make them not good marriage material.
I have to admit, that, for the most part, I have avoided these men online. The few times I have gone against my gut, I have been very, very sorry.
Again, I do acknowledge that there are exceptions, and one cannot make a blanket assumption about all men 40 and over who are never married.
George says
Let’s say I am over 40 and never been married. Maybe I was focused on my career. I had a few long term relationships, but they were never quite right. Who would want to date anyone that puts so much judgement into some one else’s age. Is it really “better” to have been divorced? Multiple families, not from what I have seen. The question seems incredibly shallow.
hunter says
James, some dissertation you wrote. I can also relate to most of it. I, somehow, don’t think that will earn you time in the sack.
Jura says
Re. #68
You may want to look up statistical trends in engineers’ above 40 chances of fathering autistic children. Every day now, scientists bring new proofs on how paternal DNA _is_ affected by aging: there was no sure methodology before, there is now.
downtowngal says
George, you’re absolutely correct. Many women, unfortunately, have had negative experiences with 40+ never-marrieds but we still give it a try. Maybe it’s just a high concentration of guys in that demo who are available on line, but when you only have so much time on your hands you tend to base your selections on past experience. And given the choice these women would rather go w a guy the same age who’s already been married.
That said, any 40+ never-married guy out there – as with ANY guy – who makes a sincere effort to be in a committed relationship will have a great chance of finding someone. I believe in defying stereotypes (I am one myself, btw) and don’t adhere to negative hype.
Selena says
Another good point George #84 brought up: Mulitple families.
Given a choice between a never married guy, or one with more than one ex, and more than one family to support (and be in be involved with)….which looks better?
Karl R says
Selena said: (#70)
“I’ve discovered it’s best not to refer to an ex as ‘crazy’ because saying so is a reflection upon yourself.”
I’d say that’s even more true when a person claims all of their exes were crazy, psycho, or horrible in some fashion. If someone is blaming their partner for everything that goes wrong in a relationship, then it doesn’t make me terribly optimistic about their conflict resolution skills.
Maybe I’ve just been incredibly fortunate. None of my ex-girlfriends were horrible people, and I’ve remained good friends with several. But this strikes me as a situation where I’ve largely made my own luck. I’m not attracted to the kind of person who requires a restraining order after the breakup.
Fleur de Beton says
a man’s chances of marrying after at and after 40 decrease drastically.
men have many oppurtunities to get involved with women at many points in their life, there are always women out there looking. of course this doesn’t go for every man, but if he is a decent person, is even average looking and is socially adept. chances are he has had his chances to date.
i have dated a few of these 40 something peter pans type, the ones you string you along for a year or so and then tell you ” you just weren’t the one” ( even though they treated you like they were. My ex was 40, when i met him he was 39. I am now 31. Our meeting was made possible by a online dating site, now he is a good man overall, steady worker, educated, he had good taste, but he was socially awkward. he did not believe in phone calls, he didnt want ot have sex for fear of impregnating me, he was fine with only meeting on the weekends, ( and no he wasn’;t married) despite all of this we had chemistry got along, i was busy and seeing someone so infrequently it takes a while to put the dots together.
however, i got him to open up a bit on the phone thing, when we were together, the company was nice, his parents and friends liked me… he even told me he hoped i was the last person he dated. we went on a vacation, we had our good time, a year of no sex, and generally no phone calls.
in the end he was clueless, he had no idea what the hell he wanted and he emailed me and asked me to call him at 8 oclock ( every phone call had to be scheduled by email) and then dumped me.
These are the type of men that are 40 something and single, there are others who are nice and just havent met the right woman or have been so busy focusing on a career, but im willing to bet there are more of them who have been running from the right woman all along. They are unwilling to carve out a space for yo u in their lives, t hey often do not want to commit, but they claim to like you and value your presence.
And in the end.. as much as you put into these relationships, you will find these men do not want what you are offering, because they are incapable of accepting it, on some level they enjoy being alone, and thats the way they want things, to do things when they want, on their terms. If that isn’t what you may be looking for, RUN! I certainly have learned my lesson
j says
I totally agree with what your saying. In fact you almost allways see family and friends actively trying to fix them up and worrying about them winding up alone. A lot of women are scouting around for husbands during their thirties and these men somehow never find any of these choices suitable. What people often times don’t comprehend is that these bachelors on some level are unable or unwilling to go the distance with any woman. They may be functional in some aspects of their social life but dysfunctional when it comes to romantic love. I think the reason there is alot of opinion is that there are more of them now you instead of the rarity it was in years past. So many of us women have tried to be with someone looking keep this or have seen friends or sisters deal with these bachelors and you see patterns and can’t help but see the potential for heartbreak. But to other well meaning people they’re thinking this poor lonely guy for f only we could find him someone. But for any of us that tried with of these guys we know the score. They usually string you along so they can have sex and have a womanly touch for awhile but when the cover is blown you find they don’t consider anyone but themself. So I agree with some extra caution. Obviously there are never any guarantees but t you have to have a clear level head about trends and patterns in the current culture. I know my husband would never treat a woman like this as he doesn’t like to hurt someone’s feelings and says he couldn’t use someone and not consider the woman’s feelings but he says some men don’t care and will call up someone just because they are bored and horny and don’t care that the woman is in love.
julie says
your senario is just like what happen to me a few months ago.The guy propose to me and beg me to get pregnant.I found out after he was married to a woman 15 yrs older than him.he only wanted a long distance relationship so me nor his wife can find out about each other.Thanks to face book i put up pics of him and i ,when we met and tag him in them.Becareful…….ask him to say he is in a relationship with u on facebook if he refused………then u know.
Zabeth says
@90
I agree with you. I think it is a bit easier for a man to find a wife than it is for a woman to find a husband. So to me, if a man has made it to 40+ without ever being married I have to wonder if he is serious about commitment. Of course there are always exceptions.
susan says
I am the woman who found the 40something guy who was never married and thought I’d hit the jackpot. until it turned out he was all the things ”steve” up there was…but also had a WHOLE lot of stuff goin’on that he didn’t tell me. ouch ouch ouch.
In the end, I took Evans advice, wrote a letter along the lines of his ”your not meeting my needs, i want more” (after 3 months…) According to Evan if he came back he was serious about me…and if he didn’t he wasn’t (duh but i hadn’t really thought of it like that…).
Sure enough, no surprises, he ran, ran like the wind…and yep that was when all the ”issues” came to light.
the question is probably more ”is there something wrong with a guy in his 40s who has never sustained a relationship” and in my experience, I’d have to say, well, unfortunately, usually. Yes.
j says
Yes so true. The really believe be g red flag is no prior long term relationships and psychologistswwill attest to this. There are certain stages to life and if someone has opted out f relationships its probably because he doesn’t dint want them. Its totally understandable for a woman looking to share her life with some on to look for someone who wants and needs that too. I would certainly have a discussion about it.. but really I can also see skipping out all together n this type of a guy as I find alot f them lie about it or arse n denial about their status and why they are unattached. They know if they come put and day they don’t ever want anythingserious they risk the woman walking away without having sex with him. Most women are turned off by blatant casual sex and they know this s they keep their true self hidden. This is why women in some cases prefer to avoid these long time bachelors. I don’t blame them and alt f these guys getting pissed off by this judgement are making the case for it by saying they don’t need a woman to love as they have so many options and can snap their fingers and get one anytime as they have all the time in the world. Doesn’t sound very loveable or humble if you ask me. But really you rarely ever see them change down the line and be with someone. Especially in the later forties.
hunter says
J,
….”no prior long term r’ships and psychologist will attest to this.”….Of course they will attest to this, yet, few psychologist will give us a solution…
j says
Yeah there’s no solution but they ‘ll tell you yes its a red flag. You can rarely fix someone who is a voident of love and all its messiness.
j says
My solution would be to avoid these types like the dam plague!
Bella says
I married a 47 y/o man who was never married before. Our relationship is nothing like a 2 minutes daily phone call to say “I love you, sweet dreams”. He works overseas and is used to be alone. Not me. It is a problem in my life because I married him to have his company (and love and to live as a married couple). That’s far from happening. He is also addicted (but not willing to accept) to pornography. All he neeeds is his privacy to look at his stuff. I am 8 years younger than him and really feel abandoned.
Paragon says
I agree with what Karl R said %100 about there always being *reasons*, that are not necessarily negative indications(ie. red-flags, et al).
Personally, I was single for most of my life, until I was at a place where I could tweak the determinate variables(in my case, physical attractiveness – and for ‘men’ it never is anything as trivial as merely losing some weight, and shaving body-hair, lol) sufficiently to improve my prospects.
But, an interesting thing happened after that.
I found myself in a position to ignore the same wrinkled, loose skinned, sexually devalued female age-peers(who had never given me the time of day in the past), in favor of younger women(women in their 20’s).
Bill says
I’m one of those over 40 (53), never been married. From early on I saw it for the futile game it was, so I sort of adopted a Zen existence and have led quite a happy and contented life.. while watching others go thru the relationship struggles and angst it often brings.
Relationships often go sour leaving bitterness in it’s wake. That’s why I’ve just chosen to avoid that foolish game, and life is great when there’s no baggage.
Ellen says
[email protected]
My current bf told me much the same: That early on he deduced it was a (mainly) losing game (marriage), etc. I, otoh, have had two long-term marriages and had to raise an autistic daughter so to say I’ve been thru the relationship mill is an understatement.
Still, if I had it to do all over again I would have waited to marry, but probably would marry again. Or at least cohabit for a long time. Yes, it’s a struggle, yes, it requires work (romance), but there is no better way in which to grow spiritually.
Monks and nuns in their cloistered enclaves are kidding themselves as to the spiritual progress they are making. No amount of prayers and meditation can do what helping others can.
Also, those who avoid much of life miss the wonderful highs, the joy imo. Just my two cents.
B-dawg says
The short answer to your question is… YES.
I am a 43-year old male, single/never married. I am a completely worthless, genetically inferior loser.
We are the males who died young in traditional societies (for good reason.) Modern society allows the inferior to survive to old age in many cases, leading to to such abominations as single/never married men in their 40s.
Larz0 says
B-dawg, it sounds like you are saying that you are an unhealthy individual who has lived past what he normally would have expected before modern medicine. I feel for you. But you are the exception among the men speaking out here, and your health says nothing about your character.
Amadahy says
It was hard to get through this article based on the original premise of the post. B-dawg picked up on it. It’s this common female perspective of immense scrutiny for men, with little accountability for themselves.
If a man is still single at age 40, never been married, is there something wrong with him? The general concensus among females I’ve spoken to about this, and also noted from sites such as Huffington Post, is a resounding yes! What is up with HIM?
I’m a 39 y/o male. Never married.
My last relationship the woman told me AFTER we’d become intimate that she had an STD.
Before that, after dating a woman for 2 months, introducing her to my family, and everything going really well, she completely flipped out and said some of the meanest things anyone has ever said to me, that I was a joke, and that she didn’t want to have anything to do with me. I (and my family) were dumbfounded. She’d profusely apologize weeks later, but everyone (yes including myself) were like run!
Before that, my girlfriend of 6 years. She’d been married before and never wanted to remarry. We started having problems around the 5th year. I kept asking on repeated occasions for us to go to counceling. She refused. The day I was to move out, had packed all of my things, and had given up on her ever wanting to salvage us, she came to me and said she wanted to see counceling.
What is wrong with a man who’s 40 and never been married huh?
The difference is a guy when asking this question would say this, “What are the pluses and minuses of dating a woman who’s never married at 40?,” not “is there something wrong with a woman….?” The wording of the question speaks volumes about perception, accountability, humility, and ultimately responsibility.
Amadahy says
Some don’t pick up on the bias I’ve discussed in my post above until given examples.
Is there something wrong with a man who doesn’t ask for directions? The inference is that there is something wrong with men because we are known not to ask for directions. In reality however, men are taught to be self reliant, and we try to be self reliant as much as possible. It’s a trait that not only do women look for in men, they also poke fun of.
Is there something wrong with a woman who doesn’t have a regular menstral cycle? The inference is that there is something wrong because most women have at least semi-predictable menstral cycles. In reality some women, like my sister, have very unpredictable menstral cycles. She’s been checked out about this, and while different than many, there’s nothing wrong with her.
Is there something wrong with a Native American (as I am) who doesn’t like wooden flute music? The inference is that because most Native Americans actually do like wooden flute music that someone who doesn’t like it, there’s something wrong with them. Not at all. A few in my community don’t care for it, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Is there something wrong with a black American who doesn’t like fried chicken? The inference is that there is something wrong because every single black American I’ve become close with has proclaimed their passion for fried chicken. In reality, I’m sure there are black Americans who don’t care for it. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Is there something wrong cause my young son doesn’t like sports? It’s inferred that there is something wrong with this person’s son, because most young men do like sports. In reality however, some boys and some men simply don’t care for sports, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Finally, is there something wrong with a woman who has never married and is in her 40s? It’s inferred, because most women do marry when they’re younger than 40, that there is something wrong with them if they haven’t by the time they’re 40. In reality, many women are choosing not to marry until later in life, are choosing not to have kids, and are making their mark in many diverse fields now. Good for them. There’s nothing wrong with that, choosing to marry earlier, or later, or choosing not to marry at all.
I look forward to hearing questions from women about men which aren’t demeaningly worded.
RP says
Yes and I’m a far bigger loser than B-dawg in past 98. I’m a 41 year old virgin and not by choice.
Normita says
It’s refreshing to read opinions from the side of men in this site. I salute Steve and James (thanks for the statistics Karl) for sharing their views on this issue– it is truly something that people need to understand. We are all unique individuals with different experiences— thus, it is not acceptable to be so prejudiced. The statistical data and logic may be used as a guide but it is not the be-all.
I met my boyfriend now when he was 39 and I was 30. I learned that he was the kind of guy like what Steve and James have mentioned–those who wanted to focused on career, and be prepared enough for marriage. It wasn’t that easy for him too (apparently ) to meet the right woman. He had some previous 1-3 years of relationships before, but he never felt that they were going to that sacred vow stage. And yes, I was busy too with my vocation as a physician (was at my specialty training) that during that time I also had no true relationship to keep. I’ve been with few guys but not one really pushed to end in the promise of marriage. Fortunately he found me (we had a common friend in social media site)– and I thank God that I met the man whom I immediately felt was perfect for me.
He is now my fiance (marriage plans scheduled at the end of the year) and we really love each other so much.
There is no “perfect” or “ideal” age or time to marry — no age bracket either for the “right” girl or guy. We can’t really live and try not to live in relationships based on “common idea” or “standard” of society. It’s not healthy to be judgmental too about people you want to be with(or not) — we have to perceive each one as a “potential” good person whom we can cherish and love. Optimism creates the good vibes. I’m sure if you would try to listen more, you’ll also know and feel if there’s something wrong in the picture. Women are blessed with that ‘instinct.’
I would pray for you guys (Steve, James, etc) that someday you meet your ‘soulmates,’ and that God may bless you to have more blissful years ahead(single or married)!
Franklin says
I’m a male in my early 40’s, and the main reason I’ve never been married? Money. Women are attracted to me, but 80% I’ve dated are looking for financial support or stability. I’ve never been rich, and my career is difficult for women to gauge what I earn. So they always ask round-about questions to gain insight on my finances. I’ve now reached a point where I have no interest in a relationship. Hearing the same questions makes me nauseous.
justme says
I must be in a mood; sorry.
Franklin
I have had guy friends who tell me the same thing; women only care about money and that is why they ask what you do – they are trying to guage how much you make. I ask these questions of people as a why to get to know them better. You could answer with what you do; to have fun. I don’t really care.
james says
I am 49, have three houses, my boat, travel the world, and I love my job. A lot of my friends are either divorced and poor, or married and miserable. One is happy. I think the more pertinant question is what is the matter with american women.
I am currently living in south east asia and will be marrying my love in the next year. Totally different than any american women I have been with. Respectful, feminine, and she is not a b**ch.
Selena says
Is james Steve/Bill?
Kathleen says
Selena #106
James does sound like Steve/Bill
Glad he’s found happiness in his fantasy life outside the USA
Selena says
@Kathleen #107
What has me perplexed is why men who think US women are bitches, yadda, yadda – and women from other countries/cultures are superior -are feeling compelled to comment on a blog that has a huge headline at the top reading: “I am a PERSONAL TRAINER for women WHO WANT TO FALL IN LOVE.
Why aren’t these men spending their time visiting those countries selecting a bride?
Fantasy, fantasy, troll, fantasy.
Kathleen says
Selena
I think they may have serious “issues” Perhaps dont feel successful in their lives and are looking for an outside influence to blame. They are seeking the only kind of attention they can be assured of which is negative attention
I am not American. American women and men are awesome but there are damaged individuals in every culture. If they don’t like American women then by all means they have the freedom to move out But…..”no matter where you go… there you are!!!”
I have never heard any successful guy I have ever met make any generic negative comments about American women. ( By the way their mothers are most likely American )
JoeK says
Let me be the first:
I’m happily married to a wonderful woman. I’m American. Over 40. Successful.
Most American women do have that attitude to which James alluded. I’ve experienced first-hand the difference between the indoctrination of American women(and men) and women/men from a number of European countries (from working with them). This indoctrination simply desn’t occur “across the pond” like it does here, so women (and men) lack the gender contention that us Americans have (this is a frequent discussion we have – new colleagues are typically surprised at what they see here).
Sad, but true. My experience as an over – 40, happy, succesful American male – women here are saddled with a lot of misinformation.
james says
Thank you ladies for proving my point.
Ruby says
Franklin #103
“Women are attracted to me, but 80% I’ve dated are looking for financial support or stability.”
The vast majority of men I dated weren’t right for me either. You could always focus on the remaining 20%, you know. Besides, it only takes one.
mplo says
i am a straight woman in her early 60’s (yup, you read right–early 60’s), who’s never had a boyfriend, let alone been married, and I’m surviving quite well. Part of that, I believe is due to the fact that I’ve got a history of innate developmental and communication problems, and because I’ve never been interested in going into a different kind of setting/environment that I’m presently in. Sure, I’ve had male friends, and even gotten close to romantic relations on occasion, as well has had crushes on guys, but it never got any further than that. it’s not so terrible, and, more to the point, it’s better than being in a situation that I would not be comfortable with, or with someone that I don’t especially like, can’t connect with, or don’t find particularly attractive, or who’d pressure me into doing things I can’t or won’t do, or get involved with causes that I feel apathetic or antipathetic towards.
paul says
There is nothing wrong about a man who is 40 and not married. In fact he is a very wise person to not get involved in marriage. I wish I had done that but I was a dumb ass kid . I’m married to a person who I have no interest in or really love. Its been that way for 45 years, I just want her to go away.
Dee says
Another thing to consider, which I have not seen posted, is a possibility of sinister reasons why he never married. Call me paranoid but I worked for the prison system for many years and seen to many inmates that were never married because they were serial sex offenders or killers. Certainly they date but many do not marry because they are not committed to relationships. I know there are many never married 40+ decent men out there and not trying to generalize but there is a good reason why someone should question why someone in this age group has never been married. Remember most serial sex offenders and serial killers come across as a kind person and are great conversationalist, reason why they have gone undetected for so long.
Mickey says
It does, however, mean that he didn’t become a forty-something bachelor by making great decisions in love.
Evan:
That’s highly insulting. I’m well in my 40’s and I’ve never been married. Why? I never wanted to be married.
The same way single women over 40 are ont old maids, not every over 40 never married bachelor is gay, living in Mom’s basement, a monk, or a serial killer in waiting.
I absolutely resent the not-so-subtle implication that there is something automatically wrong with me because I’m not married at my age. If you can show me where it says that I or any other man is somehow obligated to get married by a certain age, then I’ll (to use a Mitt Romney-ism) concede.
j says
Its not that a never married ‘ve 40 guy is wrong its that he’s wrong for the woman who’s looking fora husband or something real committed. I think the problem is s people not being honest about what they’re looking to achieve. A guy who doesn’t want to marry or be serious is no more wrong than the woman is who wants that. I think when people put on a mask or dont care about hurting or wasting someone’s years are the ones who are wrong and defective.
hunter says
…aaaahhh…the few single never married men I have interviewed on this subject, never learned/were never taught, how to seduce a woman….
Kathleen says
Mickey 115
Of course you are not obligated to be married by a certain age but when women are assessing you as a LTR prospect they will wonder WHY (and in depth) you didn’t want to be married. Do you get asked that a lot when dating and how do you answer that to women who have been married over 5 years whom you are seriously interested in?
I was considering a 45 year old guy a few months ago. He had never been married so I looked up stats on the likelihood of men 45-50 marrying for the first time. It was 0.6%
Paul 113 There are many studies on happiness that reveal that men overall are happier and healthier when they are married. Sorry to hear you spent so many years in unhappiness but for the majority according to the studies its to mens advantage more than women!
Mickey says
@Kathleen:
For me, the alleged reward just wasn’t worth the risk and aggravation. Freedom is nice.
Daisy says
You’re all just rambling here! I can guarantee that this old man had lots of past relationships, even if none of them was serious. Guys can’t resist attractive women.
Karl R says
Kathleen said:
“I looked up stats on the likelihood of men 45-50 marrying for the first time. It was 0.6%”
I’d like to know your source for that “stat”. I compared the 2005 statistics for men (aged 45-49) to the 2010 statistics for the same men (aged 50-54). 10% of the “never married” men got married for the first time during those 5 years.
To put it another way, at least 0.6% of that group of men got married in the next 4 months.
My numbers come from the U.S. Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey. I hope you didn’t dump the man just because you believed a less-reputable source.
Kathleen says
Karl #120
I forget where I read the .6% it but I did see elsewhere that 81% of men have married by 40 years old.
But the reason why I looked in the first place was the guy seemed a bit odd.
I did dump him before i met him. I spoke to him for weeks before he moved to my area which he had already planned. He repeatedly cancelled dates we had set up over a week period before I pulled the plug. Then he’s found ways to send a barrage of messages insulting me about my age over a period of about 6 weeks the last ones as of last week. I don’t know why he focused on my age since I disclosed it to him the first time we spoke. Imagine if I had met him I would have had a stalker for life!
In this case there was definitely a reason why this 45 year old guy had never been married!
Karl R says
Kathleen said: (#121)
“I forget where I read the .6% it but I did see elsewhere that 81% of men have married by 40 years old.”
Still wrong, but closer. It was a little below 80% for 2010, but 81% was probably accurate for the 2000 Census.
Kathleen said: (#121)
“In this case there was definitely a reason why this 45 year old guy had never been married!”
I agree that the 45 year old was single for a reason. And in his case, the reason is because he would suck as a husband. But it’s narrow-minded to say that’s the case for every man over 40.
I’m getting married (for the first time) one day before my 43rd birthday. I started dating my fiancée a few months before my 40th birthday. I’d only gotten back into the dating scene at the age of 36 (after an extended break), right about the time my career took off.
With a shaky career, I didn’t look like a great prospect for marriage, but that wasn’t an indicator that I was damaged goods for life.
A friend of mine (who looks like “I’m a PC” from the “I’m a Mac”, “and I’m a PC” ads) is a year older than me. He consistently tries to date much better looking than him. He succeeds … in the short-term. But the price he pays for such high demands in physical attractiveness is that his partners aren’t his intellectual equals, so the relationships never become serious.
He would make a terrific husband … if he could learn to compromise on physical attractiveness.
Another friend of mine (almost 40) is 5’3″. He doesn’t get much attention from women (due to his height) and doesn’t have much confidence with women (due to their general indifference). Other than that, he’s a great guy.
If he was 5’10”, he’d most likely be married.
If a man (or woman) over 40 has never been married, there’s a reason. If a man (or woman) was married and got a divorce, there’s a reason.
The reason is important. The marital status (never married or divorced) is not going to tell you anything more.
Kathleen says
Karl
Congrats on your pending marriage Thats awesome!
I didn’t say anywhere that its the case for every man over 40. To me personally its more relevant with men my age in their 50s.
Its an area I like to explore with them though. I look to see how long his relationships have been in the past. ( For example I understand the brain chemistry of infatuation lasts for maybe 1.5-2 years according to Helen Fisher PHD I see if he’s had a long term relationship longer than that)
I look at his other areas of commitment. If he was establishing a career as a neurosurgeon for example that makes sense. If he has long term maintained relationships with friends and family, including if he has children . If he has the ability to attach, relate and have empathy for other people, and as you say be a good husband.
There are always exceptions but so far I haven’t progressed with never married guys in their 50s so far. Ive been dating only 4 years so maybe someone can prove me wrong .
Trevor says
I am pretty sure the guy has got something going on. I am 40, and have never been married and never really dated, and have never had sex with a woman. The reason is because i was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease at 19, I felt so bad I had no desire to date, have sex, or do much of anything from age 20 until age 25 when I had my first kidney transplant, The transplant meds caused to put on weight and have bad acne, and I was already a shy guy to begin with and just never pursued women because I figured they wouldn’t be interested. I finished college, and gradschool and built a sucessful career,and then my kidney transplant failed and I had to retire on dissbility, go back on dialysis and wait for another one.
I hsd snother transplant three years ago but my only income is the small amount I recieve from Socia Security disability each month which is barely enough to cover my medications. I had to move back in with my parents because I could no longer afford my own place. I don’t appear outwardly sick and most people who don’t know my medical situation probably just assume that I am gay or just a complete loser. Sure I would like to date and have a normal love llfe but a 40 year old virgin who is cronicly sick , has no money, and lives with his parents is not what women are looking for…so i have resigned myself to spending the rest of my life alone.
Kathleen says
Trevor
So glad to hear you were able to get another transplant. Are there any support groups for renal patients in your area so you could at least meet some new friends so that you are not so isolated?. I wonder if you could be a patient advocate to talk to other patients about transplantation and that way you might meet others including females who understand the challenges. Im thinking if you could help others maybe you wouldn’t feel so alone?
marymary says
aw, trevor
i don’t think people think that. They,re too wrapped up in their own problems. and if they do think that, sod em.
it,s a leap to go from lonely with low self image to full on relationship. A nice interim goal is to be happy in your current situation. Join a church, volunteer at a hospital, take classes, meet people, make friends.
you can be happy and single. It doesn,t mean alone. And if you’re anything like me, when you become happy you meet someone. And even if you don’t life is still better.
continue to be brave. You’re doing good.
michael1_4 says
I have no idea when this article was originally posted because I don’t see a date anywhere but I just stumbled on it. My response to this article though is did you ever think a guy who is in his 40s and never been married maybe just didn’t want to get married in his 20s or 30s? I know its shocking but a lot of people don’t think of marriage as the be all and end all. Some guys, surprise, surprise, want to have fun in their 20s and 30s. There’s nothing wrong with that. If more people waited until they were actually ready to get married instead of rushing into it because that’s what society says you’re supposed to do I imagine the divorce rate would be much lower than it is.
Mickey says
@Kathleen 117:
The only other thing I could possibly say in response to any potential date wanting to know why I never got married is that I never wanted the responsibility that comes with married life. That doesn’t make me irresponsible; some people want marriage and others don’t. I’ve always been up front about that from the time I was 21.
Like I said, for me, the so-called rewards just aren’t worth the risk.
Kathleen says
Mickey 128
Its great that you are very upfront with women that you have absolutely no interest in marriage , because then theres no chance of a misunderstanding
That is very responsible on your part.
I find it interesting though that you mention the “so called “rewards of marriage
when you’ve never known marriage. I was married 20 years it was cheaper to live married, there were health insurance benefits, I had a great sex life, comfort, friendship, a workout partner etc …As I’ve mentioned many studies on happiness and healthiness in men mention marriage is a very positive factor.
The risk I took was a break up and Ive done well since then . Overall for me the benefits outweighed the risk.
If you loose a fantastic woman because she prefers to be married then thats a risk you might be taking.
But to each their own!
Mickey says
@Michelle #129
The reason I refer to the “so-called” benefits of marriage is twofold.
Part 1: You have society’s rules (from the beginning of time) that suggest in no uncertain terms that men and women be paired off in marriage by a certain age. Where exactly is that written?
Part 2: The bigger problem I have is with popular culture demonizing men as irresponsible, lazy, video game-playing, beer-swilling frat boys living with mom & dad’s basement. Add to that the attitudes of many (I won’t say all) women who are convinced that men are just no good. And there are a zillion websites, blogs, articles and books what scream that sentiment out loud. And my own failed attempts to approach women years ago only served to confirm that viewpoint.
Again, as I mentioned earlier in a different post, it’s a little difficult for me to believe that marriage is a viable goal when too many women are convinced that men in general bring absolutely nothing to the table.
I’m an educated, self-supporting professional who got tired of trying to convince the allegedly “fair sex” that I’m a normal, reasonably sane human being. Thus, I don’t lose sleep trying to find something like a relationship or even marriage, which for me is pie in the sky.
Sorry, I just don’t believe.
michael1_4 says
Kathleen, you said, “I was married 20 years it was cheaper to live married, there were health insurance benefits, I had a great sex life, comfort, friendship, a workout partner etc …As I’ve mentioned many studies on happiness and healthiness in men mention marriage is a very positive factor.” All of those things you just mentioned I’ve had many times not being married. Health insurance I’ve had almost my entire life, first under my parent’s policy and then when I started working full time under my own policy. The other things you mentioned I’ve had on and off with different women over the years. Truthfully though even married people only have those things on and off even when married. As far as the part about men being healthier when married that has not been the case with me. I am actually much healthier single. I have never been married but been in many long term relationships, and maybe I just haven’t met the “right one” but I have found in the past many times after many years in a relationship I start to get depressed. When i get depressed I start putting on weight and I used to smoke like crazy because I was so depressed because I felt there was nothing to look forward to. Once I broke up with that woman I started working out again, quit smoking and just started taking care of myself better. So for me being single has always been much better for my health. That is just my experience of course and other men might have a different experience but that has been mine. I think it is fine either way, if a person thinks they want to get married good for them or if they prefer to stay single that’s fine too. I just find it strange that single people are demonized in the media and by some people in general.
Goldie says
Wanted to add my two cents on the health insurance thing, since I’ve seen it come up a few times in the comments lately. I think, for one, the whole setup where only way you can get health insurance is through your employer, and the bigger your employer, the better your health insurance, is so messed up. I was married almost 20 years to a man who worked for a small consulting company, so his employer did not offer health insurance. (They do now, apparently.) I changed jobs several times during our marriage, and always made it clear at job interviews that my husband was a contractor, and I needed medical and dental. And of course, now I don’t have a husband at all, so again, need medical and dental. I think that it is so wrong that this is even a factor in a job search. You feel that you have to pass up interesting work with good career potential, because it’s at a small startup that doesn’t offer medical benefits; you also feel that you have to take what may be a potential dead-end job at a large corporation, because the medical is great. At some point it starts looking a lot like selling your soul, and throwing your career under the bus, so your children can get medical care when you need it. Whew. Now that I’m done with this rant, back to the subject of this thread. One trend I notice over the past few years is, companies (even huge, Fortune 500 or Fortune 50 ones) aren’t exactly falling over themselves to give your spouse medical benefits. Both my current job and my previous one, are now charging what they call spousal surcharge. Unless your spouse cannot give written proof that they are unable to get medical insurance anywhere else in any way, shape, or form, there’s an extra charge added to your premium. Speaking of the premium itself, it only goes up a fraction when you add your children to your insurance (regardless of how many you have), but it doubles when you add your spouse. As in, it cost me TWICE as much to have family insurance as it now costs me to have insurance for myself and the children. I assume their reasoning is, why should we make it easy for someone’s husband/wife, who do not work for us, to get benefits that this person can get somewhere else? What I’m saying is, marriage is no longer a cheap and easy way to get medical for both partners, at least in my experience. I still believe that marriage is an ideal financial/legal setup to raise a family and kids in. But, if neither side wants any (more) children, IMO there’s no need to get married unless both sides really want to. Many of my friends (both married and single) disagree with me on this, but that’s my opinion. I do not plan to remarry at this time.
As for the stigma, I don’t feel I’m on the receiving end of it myself, because hey, I’ve done my time. With the men I’ve dated, I’ve met all kinds — never married, divorced, twice divorced, single dads, divorced after two years together, divorced after twenty years together. I’ve got to say I haven’t found any correlation between a person’s marital history and the kind of partner he can be. I’ve met good and bad people in all of these groups.
Bruce says
Well i am a 45 year old guy who went to a royal navy boarding school for sons of sailors . Father was born in 1918 and was in navy from 1930s to 1960s then civil service until 1980s and my mum 1940 was a wren in 1960s and is very British Empire , im from a second marriage. Father sadly passed way 8 years ago
I asked 3 times different girls to go out with , at 19. 21 and 23 , the 1st time the girl similar age said yes then changed her mind. So i decided to book escorts instead and fufill fantasies that way and have seen girls that way from 21 to 45 and remain single
If i hadnt done that i would still be a virgin, i am 6’2 fair hair blue eyes was very lanky until 30s now im 23 stone
Well i am now a now over weight,freelancer , dont drive or smoke,drive a nice jaguar xk8 (cant stand BMWs and AUDIS, the people who drive them are arrogant morons)
The point is why should i care what i look like now re weight, when no one was intrest in my teens or 20s when i was slim and healthy . Why should i even bother now
If i was a millionaire i bet it would be different . But i am so cynical now , i wouldnt trust a girl anyway . If they didnt like me then why should i care now. So in my small way i ignore all people privates and play on mmos and watch films and do exactly what i like .
I am also proudly right wing (not the republican way) , but proudly an English anglo saxon right winger, a defiant non practising roman catholic , who thinks England is better seperate and non multicultural. I will never be politically correct and i cant stand hypocritical femminists who are just as sexist and self oppinionated as anyone else
So i unless i find a kate beckinsale type or something who has similar views i woudl rather be single and above. Sorry i am not intrested.
Not every hetro Bloke who is single and lives on the own are lonely and I am fed up with people thinking otherwise.
Bruce says
didnt mean dont drive , should have been hardly drink , quite happy not to drink a pint of beer or glass of wine for 10 months or more, wouldnt bother me.
Cant stand tatooes on girls and personally i would never have tatooes or rings or earings . Im not a bloody pirate . But a proud and beligerant englishman
JD says
After my divorce, I was reunited with a guy that I dated on and off for 20 years beginning from high school. He gave me my first kiss. Most of our relationship was “off” rather than “on” because he was an asshole mostly. He was cheap and didn’t want to spring for dinner, but he wanted sex right away or at least a BJ. I wouldn’t give him either because I wanted to be in a relationship first. He decided I was frigid, I guess, and we were platonic friends via email for over 10 years.
In those emails over 10 years, he told me all that time that marriage wasn’t for him, children were too much responsibility, and that women were “whacked.” He “dated” a lot of women– many masculine looking women, a few pretty women, one professional cheerleader with a “rockin body.” He lived with two women but one moved out after 8 months saying he was “odd” and an “asshole,” the other he kicked out because she stayed out too long without calling him (she was about 15 years his junior). That lasted less than a year too.
So after my divorce, he says that he wants a second chance. We are both 45. I was married for 13 years and had two children, 5 and 12. I have a doctorate and a great job and a house. I am financially secure. He tells me that he’s different now, a better boyfriend and will never break my heart. I live in Florida; he lives in NY. We begin a long-distance romance and it feels wonderful.
We had sex the first time we were together, but we felt like we had 20 years of foreplay. I’d never done that before. He spent money on me for the first time in his life– took me to a Broadway show, dinner, wine tasting…very romantic. On the way to the airport, HE asked me if I planned on seeing other people, but before I answered, he said that he wanted to be exclusive with me. I had never stopped loving him from way back so I said yes. I was a serial monogamist and never dated more than one person at a time.
Things were great until our second meeting wherein he told me about his former ex-girlfriend, whom he still “loved.” It was disconcerting. This was the one he lived with for 8 months and she moved out to have another man’s baby. I suspect that among other things, her biological clock was ticking and she knew he didn’t want to have children so she decided to go on her way. For some reason, his family sort of adopted her as their sister and invited her to all family events and so did he.
So one of the first times I met his whole family (I had been friends with one of his sisters in high school and knew his Mom through the modeling his sister and I did together), I also met the ex-girlfriend and HE proceeded to flirt with her all night and left me on my own.
To make a long story short, the old girlfriend kept wanting to “help us out” by volunteering to do things for him like bring him to the airport, pick him up, watch his dog while away….and because they also worked with each other, they saw each other for lunches too, where she became his confidant. I was very uncomfortable with it. We even had to double date with her, which was so awkward.
Then there were his golf trips with buddies. I didn’t mind those, but he could never seem to find 5 days straight to spend with me, but would spend it with his buddies, no problem. Every holiday was spent with his family and the ex-girlfriend. For all his talk of being exclusive, loving me, wanting me to spent “forever” with him, I was experiencing the opposite. When I would call him on it, he would say, “You’re crazy and insecure!”
He also wouldn’t give me compliments but was very forthcoming with compliments for the ex-girlfriend who was a size 16 at the time and very masculine while I was a size 4 and feminine. He told me that he didn’t want to “spoil me.” I put up with this kind of thing for a long time. His family also mostly ignored me but would buddy up to the ex-girlfriend and give her compliments in front of me. It was very hurtful. I told my guy about this, but he said I was just insecure.
Then there were some strange things that happened along the way. He would constantly tell me about gay men at work who hit on him. He went to gay bars in NYC for the “food” and during a trip to San Francisco hung out with a gay man who grabbed his ass. He actually rented a limo with him and went out to a 5-star restaurant with him. When my boyfriend and I were there, he wouldn’t spring for a taxi and told me that we were only doing diners, even when I offered to pay. Again, he said he didn’t want to “spoil me.”
He was constantly worried about his appearance. He used lip balm constantly and hand creme. He would say things like, “You’re so lucky! You have all “this” (pointing to himself) to be with!” He had always been narcissistic but insecure at the same time. He would tell me about women trying to pick him up, but when I told him about guys who did the same with me, he’d say, “Oh, but they weren’t as good looking as me or that they didn’t have as good a job.” Only defective guys apparently found me attractive, was his point.
Sex was great except that he hardly looked at me. I felt like he didn’t much like female parts and tried to avoid much oral contact. He remarked that my stomach “bothered” him (I had a c-section and a tiny tummy) while he had a teddy bear tummy, some really prickly skin, and more chest hair than I liked…but I never said anything to him about it because I loved the whole man and found hims sexy just the way he was. We were approaching 50 years old. I ran every day and exercised, so I wasn’t out of shape, but I had had two children and some stretch marks. He ran too, btw, and constantly obsessed over his weight.
Eventually he asked me to marry him. Gave me an expensive ring but never got on one knee and NEVER told me how I made him feel or that he loved me. He didn’t even seem thrilled to be with me on the day he proposed. My kids were there too so there was little fanfare. They felt odd about the whole thing at 7 and 13 years old by then. I said yes because I never loved anyone more than him despite the fact that I felt like he put everyone and everything ahead of me. I was deluded into thinking that he would “change.”
In the end we booked the venue for the wedding; I purchased an expensive dress, sent out invitations and about two and half months before the wedding, he called me on the phone and said that he “dreaded” being married to me, said he wanted to be married and have kids, but not “with me.” He said he thought I would become a nag and gain weight. He admitted that I wasn’t a nag now, but he said all women became nags and they all gained weight after they got married. I had been married for 13 years and only briefly was a size 10 after having my second child and then got back down to my size 4. His mother, though, had 8 children and was clinically obese and apparently his parents had a contentious marriage with fighting all the time.
So I canceled the whole wedding. He wouldn’t talk to me for several weeks and I found out that our relationship was over by receiving a call from a friend who got a note that said the wedding was canceled and that he and I had “parted ways.” What a way to find out that your relationship was over.
He finally called about a week later after I pleaded with him and felt like a stalker after emails and texts begging him to talk about it. He said that he was sure he made the right decision because we were “two different people.”
About a month later, he said he wanted us to be friends and that he wasn’t sure he made the right decision and needed “time” and that he still “loved me,” but that I could see other people. He didn’t want to “stop me from living” and it didn’t matter if I slept with other guys.
A month after that he sent me a text of his kitchen remodel that we had planned and the tile that he laid himself. Always his cheerleader, I told him that it looked great! Then via text, he asked me if I was dating anyone, volunteered that he wasn’t and “couldn’t” and that he had been really sad and our break-up was incredibly painful for him. He would send me random texts about attending his niece’s recital or a funny email. I asked him to call me to speak about it, but he wouldn’t. I asked him to come and see me face-to-face, but he wouldn’t. He just kept sending random texts. If I sent him a text or email, he would ignore it for days or even weeks. If I called him, he wouldn’t answer the phone or call me back, but insisted that he wanted to be “friends.”
I finally told him just to leave me alone….then that felt worse….so we went back and forth between talking and not talking. Finally the date of “our wedding” came and went, another painful day. His father died not long ago and he emailed me. I sent flowers. He sent me compliments about how wonderful I was, how talented, how any man would be lucky to have me, how I lit up a room….more compliments than he’d given me in the two years we were together. I don’t know what to make of it.
Now it’s been about 8 months and I still get emails and texts from him…just random things. He wants to meet to “clear the air” but what could he say for himself? He left me a single Mom with about $10,000 in bills from the wedding and never even wanted to talk to my children who were also sad about the whole thing. I had planned to move my kids and quit my job, sell my house. Luckily I was able to stop those proceedings otherwise, I’d be homeless and jobless now.
The ex-girlfriend is still in his life ..he told me that she would be “forever in his life” and he’s right. She’s pretty happy about the whole thing and I guess so is his family.
I feel like I spent two years on a roller coaster ride. First he would tell me he wanted to be with me forever, then he said he didn’t want things to change, he liked being “free,” then eventually asked me to marry him, but never meant it, I guess.
So when a guy is 47 and still single and has only had relationships that last for 2 years or less, something is wrong. I think my ex-fiance had a lot of issues, but the main one was that he didn’t really want to be in a real relationship where two people see each other ever day and make each other their priority. He was selfish. He liked the idea of having someone to invite to a work party, liked the occasionally sex, liked to call me when he had a tough day for a pep talk, liked to play family man when he visited me and took the kids with us, but in the end, he loved to flirt with his ex-girlfriends, the gays, liked to hang out with the boys and didn’t want to be bothered by the mundane tasks of having to take a kid to soccer practice or stay home with a sick kid or to even tell the woman that they purported to love that she was beautiful and special and that he loved her more than anything else in the world.
The final cherry on this sundae was that he told me not too long ago that he never wanted to marry me. He got engaged to “placate” me because he felt that I would break up with him if he didn’t. Of course, he also insisted on a big wedding and was involved with all the details too…I can’t quite figure that out. It seems that he never intended on showing up but put on a good show that he was really going to marry finally.
He told his family that I was “crazy” and “insecure” because I couldn’t deal with him being friends with the ex-girlfriend. I admit that I couldn’t get over the awkwardness of double-dating with her, but I never told him to stop being her friend. I just couldn’t be her “best friend” as she had asked, not when there was so much flirting and she was so involved with his life. I felt extraneous.
In retrospect, I think he keeps the ex-girlfriend around as a buffer between him and another relationship. He knows that not many women would want to double-date with an ex. His family, who continues to invite her like a sister-in-law, is also interested in preventing him from moving on– for whatever reason. No other ex is ever invited to parties because they said it would be awkward and insensitive for the new person!
When she wasn’t convenient, he’d say it was work or guy friends or family who came before me….it was always something or someone, but he NEVER put me first or made me feel wanted, valued or appreciated. I felt like I always had to be more than I was because as I was just wasn’t good enough as is.
40neverkissed says
And I should pay for his bad decisions?
j says
Well that sounds like an awful experience. I wouldn’t waste another second of thought on him. I think alot of the guys that are getting insulted about women’s impressions of over 40 never married are missing the boat. If a woman wants a relationship that’s going somewhere she is evaluating the man based on achieving that goal and that’s all. Of course every adult has the right to live their life how they choose. But when a woman is looking for a meaningful connection and not a friends with benefits she has to question his finest for what she is looking for. You can teally get hurt by these guys and get caught up in taking them on as a challenge of being the one to open him up to experience love. Some people don’t need anyone so they havw no incentive to have a relationship. That’s fine but we woman often become attached after sex and then we want to believe that we mean something to them. The women who are questioning the charecter of these bachelor’s are just wanting to avoid getting caught up in this type f devestating cycle. There are some people are unable to make a choice because they become paralyzed with fear of missing out on a better deal or of take ng any risk. Women have their issue too. Some women are only attracted to men that are avoided and mistake love for sexual chemistry and they let opportunities for successful relationships that would lead to a life pass them by or they’re just too difficult to get along with or some women are allways wanting to scam somebody. I guess the point is if people were more honest this wouldn’t be an issue but they’re not so you have to look out for yourself. Im glad I’m married so I don’t have to deal with this anymore. It seems pretty rough and cold hearted out there.
Mark says
This is quite the article.I don’t usually comment but,thought I might chime in.I am 48,5’10”,185lbs,very fit,full head of hair,Ivy League MBA,a self-made multimillionaire……and never been married!Nor do I have any plans on getting married or “shacking up”.Here is why! I am a businessman.I know a good deal from a bad deal….and marriage for a man in the Western world is a VERY bad deal. The one thing that I have not read on this blog…or have not seen it addressed are the LAWS governing marriage or LTR’s.I was lucky to learn the laws at the age of 23 from a family friend who explained them to me.After that,I went and conversed with our family attorney on the subject and he laid them out in black & white for me.He also stated that his law firm did not represent women in divorce cases due to the “nature” of the laws. That was when I made a life changing decision.I dumped my g/f…..got a vasectomy and have never gotten “involved” with another one since.Has it hurt me? Not at all! In fact,I consider it one of the secrets to my success!
Now don’t get me wrong here.I like women alot! but,from a “legal standpoint” I have no use to be dragged through family court to be robbed of my house,earnings,retirement etc.etc.This is not right! I figured this out 25 years ago and still hold true to my convictions!I do not date.I have no need to.People that date are looking for a relationship.I have “friends with benefits” arrangements that works GREAT!.I have been single for 25 years and I get more sex that any married friend that I know.
So for all the women posters that think that a man over 40 and having never been married is “dysfunctional” think again ladies! I know lots of single men over 40 never married.They have watched friends and family get raped in divorce court and have decided that “the only way to win at the game…is not to play” I get asked out on dates all the time.I am straight and upfront with the ladies.” I don’t date because I am not looking for a relationship” and if that offends them….Too Bad!
If someone I do know is thinking of “shacking up” or getting married.I give him a copy of the best book I have read in the last 10 years.
How To Avoid Getting Screwed When Getting Laid
In fact,I bought 100 copies and gave them all away to single friends of mine.They in turn have bought all kinds of copies to hand out to their friends!Even some women I know read this book….and guess what?….THEY AGREED!..L*
So you see ladies.I find that most men that are never marrieds over the age of 40 are the SMART ones.They have read the laws.It is all risk and no reward! In fact,I consider getting married in the USA or Canada to be tantamount to drug trafficking.Could I make alot of money in trafficking?….sure I could! But,if I get caught what are the penalties?…..20 years in jail! So how is that different from divorce court? It is not! I still lose my house due to “proceeds of crime” or my ex-wife gets it.I still lose all my money…or the court gives it to my ex-wife as well as other assets,investments etc…..and I will have to pay a huge fine…which is the same as alimony.So you see and understand this comparison?….It is not worth the risk! Thanks.
marymary says
Mark
A blog on dating and relationships is not going to be about how to avoid getting married.
Most men aren’t multimillionaires with vast fortunes that they don’t want to pass onto any children so yours is quite a niche situation. If you’re happy and upfront with your sex partners, then your choice is perfectly valid and non dysfunctional, but of limited application.
Julia says
@marymary this guy is an MRA, he’s probably just copy and pasted this from some manoshpere blog. I doubt the accuracy of any of it.
Ruby says
Julia #138
I had to look up MRA, but I think you are correct. I suspect he’s actually the author of that book, trying to take advantage of EMK’s blog to make some money!
Mickey says
Mark 136:
You, sir, are my hero!
Mark says
@Julia
I had to look up MRA.I have not studied any of their “rights” that they are espousing so therefore I cannot make a serious comment about MRA. The other term that I also saw while researching MRA was MGTOW(Men Going Their Own Way).This would describe me better but,again I have not researched it at any length to make a realistic comment on the subject.I just know there is ALOT of single men out there that are avoiding women for whatever their reasons may be.This is not from reading blogs on the internet but,from personal observations made everyday from watching friends,peers and business associates.My reasons for being over 40 and single were stated above in my previous post….and I stand by those reasons!
I am not a blogger.In fact,the only reason that I came to this site is because I read Evan’s book.A receptionist at our office had a copy and I borrowed it and read it.I must say that it was a good read.This is the reason that I came to this blog and did some reading as the receptionist referred me to it after I read the book.I would also like to comment on Evan’s book and blog.The book was “spot-on”….Evan knows his stuff I will guarantee you that! …..and also his advice that he gives to questions on this blog asked by women are again…”spot -on”.So as a dating coach and author I would advise any single woman that is looking for a relationship to take Evan’s advice about men and relationships seriously……..he knows what he is talking about! I assure you!.The problem that I see here is not with Evan or his advice but,with the ladies!….”You are listening to Evan….but you are not hearing Evan”.Does that make sense? Thanks!
@Ruby
Sorry sweetheart….I never wrote the book! A friend of mine gave me a copy to read.I was so impressed with it that I ordered 100 copies to give away to friends.I must say that my friends have also ordered multiple copies to give away to their friends.I have had nothing but “Thank You’s” for giving men this book.I would suggest that you read the book also…as it will give you a different perspective on why so many single men are AVOIDING women!Thanks.
@Mickey
Thanks!….L*
Paul says
not really, since he didn’t meet the right woman to get married too. i am a straight man that had been married myself at one time before she cheated on me, and i was a very caring and loving husband that was very committed to her. we were together for 15 years before this happened to me, and i even thought that i had met the love of my life to have a family with. today it is very hard for me as well to meet a good woman again since many of them have become so very nasty to start a conversation with, and will even curse at me. i did not do anything wrong to cause this to happen to me, since the women of today are certainly much different than they were years ago. very hard to meet a real good honest woman today, especially one that doesn’t cheat. i did get married when i was 33 years old myself, and a man in his 4o’s will be even harder since it is a very good idea to be very cautious. years ago, it was much easier meeting a good woman with the help of families and friends that would introduce you to the one that they think would be right for you. and most of the times it did work out. today you have much more women making very good money, and many of them don’t need a man in their life since many of the women now have very high paying jobs. it certainly does make it much harder for us good serious men that would want a love life again, especially a man in his 40’s that is seriously looking to finally settle down.
Bill T says
Some of the comments on here really irk me; I’m in my early 40s and have not been married. For much of my life, I’ve lived in a fairly small city with a lot of out-migration of young people, and not much of a “dating” scene. It’s brutally hard to meet people here, and it’s not just me saying that, I’ve heard newcomers say it too. Moving hasn’t really been an option (for several reasons)
Unless you are a fabulous guy, you generally don’t have a chance to date several people and find the right one around here…. many just grab what they can find and hang on tight. Not a great way to ensure a healthy relationship.
I’m not-great-but-OK looking (5’9″ and slim build), have my own house and a good job, and consider myself a very low-maintenance “giver” type person. And I’m SANE, which I’m finding is an increasingly valuable trait. I’m considered brainy-ish and polite, which seems to have been a net detriment in my life.
I don’t crave, or even like, stereotypical “dumb blondes” – despite what people might assume from a +40 single – and I’m no player.
J says
Paul #142- I sure hope you start telling yourself a different story soon. Posting the same narrative in thread after thread under different names is not getting you any closer to meeting the women you’d like to meet.
Clare says
I know several guys in their thirties who have never married or made a serious commitment to anyone (guys in their 40s are outside of my age group so I can’t comment) and there are reasons that have to do with the guy for all of them. They are all uncommittable, afraid of intimacy, overly independent or selfish to some degree.
I wouldn’t write them off though. I’d just say proceed slowly and with caution, and don’t give your heart away too soon or at all before there is a solid commitment. I do believe with guys like this they have to arrive at it in their own time and in their own way, and there’s no forcing it or rushing it. But I would definitely be cautious and guarded.
hunter says
@clare#145,
Most of the good looking men don’t have to commit/marry, what for??….there is no shortage of generous women for them…
Julia says
@Hunter
Most of the good looking men don’t have to commit/marry, what for??….there is no shortage of generous women for them…
Well, one would assume that at least some of them are interested in having a family. At least, I know some very handsome married men who are happy as hell with their wives and children.
Henriette says
@Clare145 Most of the bright, accomplished people I know spent their 20s dating a variety of folk, furthering their education, travelling and establishing their careers. While you look at a 30-something never-married guy and think “selfish commitment-phobe,” i look at married 20-somethings and think, “inexperienced future-divorcees.”
Clare says
Henriette,
I certainly am not advocating getting married in your 20’s… having been married and divorced in my twenties I speak from experience.
I was more referring to guys who have never had a truly committed relationship, not necessarily marriage. And I’m certainly not lumping all never-married thirty-somethings into this category… only the ones who have *shown* themselves to be selfish and commitment-phobic, often by their own admission. By the way, they’re also perfectly likeable guys. Just proceed carefully relationship-wise…
Clare says
hunter 146,
If it is like that for you, I’m glad for you 😀
Where I come from, most of the guys I know do not have women throwing themselves at them.
Mickey says
Yeah, we’re nothing but uncouth, unkempt, maladjusted cavemen. Being that we’re obviously being written off here, why exactly should any guy in this demographic (myself included) have any kind of positive attitude?
Bill T says
Mickey #151: Yeah, no kidding eh? It’s a bit rich to expect every person to be married by 40 – heck, I think someone on this message board said something about being in New York City, and almost everyone younger than 50 seems to be single. It’s not always a matter of choice – for some people in some circumstances, it can be really, really tough to find a person, let alone the right person.
Lizzy says
I think you guys are missing the point. The unmarried almost 50 year old men that we’re talking about are set in their ways. They have had plenty of chances to be married. The guy that I dated had had several significant relationships, but couldn’t pull the trigger. We were engaged and sent out invitations and he called me on the phone and ended our relationship. He said he was just ‘wasn’t ready’ for marriage and an “instant family” (I have two children). We’d known each other since high school and reunited. He left me with tons of wedding bills and legal bills to relocate my children to another state. It’s not like he didn’t know that I had children. They are very well-behaved and smart kids too, who grew attached to him. We just never saw him again since the phone call and he didn’t want to talk about it.Meanwhile, he just moved on.
When I look back, there were lots of red flags that I ignored. He had a way of doing everything though from making his coffee in the morning to putting away the iron. Everything had to be done his way, or it was “wrong.” He tried to ‘teach” me his way and would berate me if I didn’t want to learn his “way.” When you live with someone for a length of time, you realize that there are different ways of doing things, not wrong ways. You tend to be more flexible. Guys who have not been married don’t seem to know this. His longest live-in relationship was 8 months. She ended moving out because she said he was impossible to live with. They remained friends and we had to double date with her.
That was also very odd. He also kept all of his friends with benefits and insisted that double-date with us. When we broke up, he turned to them right away for “comfort.” I realized that this was his way of never getting married. He kept a stable of women who would give him sex and friendship so that when the relationship did go sour, as it always did because he would eventually find something wrong, he would just turn to them and move along.
He never wanted to have children, never wanted to pay for another person (he was extremely frugal), thought that men who were married should give their money to their “families” instead of their spouses and children if they died unexpectedly. When one of his friends died unexpectedly, he couldn’t believe that his friend willed his savings to his widow and small child instead of his family because he said, she’d only known him for 5 years! They were married and had a baby that she was left with all alone to raise. That didn’t phase him.
It’s that kind of selfishness that I am talking about and I think most of the other women are talking about. This kind of single, almost 50-year old also tends to either live with their mother or have such close family ties that there’s no room for a woman to fit it. They have their life and they don’t make room for someone else.
40neverkissed says
You lump all 40+ unmarrieds together.
marymary says
Lizzy
If you avoid older men you’re left with the younger men who don’t seem to be rushing to commit either! Understandably, we want to avoid being disappointed (to put it mildly) but we may be focusing on the wrong things. It can strike regardless of their age, income, relationship history or education.
I don’t have the answer to this btw but I think the ironing etc. is minor compared to the women on rotation.
Sounds like a hideous experience.
Marie says
I had an in depth conversation about this phenomenon when I was dating a never married 44 yo man (before I met my fiancé). This bf behaved very much like Lizzy’s post and I was very confused. On the one hand he talked about wanting to get married and have kids but never meeting the right person and focusing too much on building his career. But then it seemed like he had a string of relationships and always managed to find something wrong. He said the girl initially always seemed “perfect” but then she turned out to have all these flaws. He would keep all these exes around as potential FWB however. He was also very set in his ways. If you did things differently he would lecture you as being wrong rather than accept there were just different ways of doing things. I began to suspect that it wasn’t just the other women who were “crazy” but that he was difficult to live with. He had all these ideas of what marriage is like and they all had to do with losing one’s identity, money, and personal space. I ended up breaking up. We remained friends. I think deep down he just wasn’t someone who was suited for marriage and I think he would do himself good if he just came to terms with that instead of dating women and telling them he wanted marriage when he really didn’t. He agreed with me and said he couldn’t understand why he kept finding fault with women he got serious with but he did. I asked him if any of his friends (who were all 40 something never married men) would be good for me to date and he looked horrified and said no, they all have issues worse than me! They’re single for a reason!!
Well, anyways I’m not saying that never married 40 and up men are defective but that some of them may not really want to get married and give up their ways or personal space deep down but they may not have come to terms with it yet. Like any venture you have to realize the risks and decide for yourself if he’s worth it.
marymary says
Marie
Good point. However before they were 40 and didn’t want to get married, they were 30 and didn’t want to get married. It’s not their age, it’s in them. What’s a girl to do? I guess – don’t date men who have a negative view of marriage or relationships. They are fairly easy to spot (look at this blog!), but by the time you have feelings for them it’s hard to see it. It IS confusing.
As for “This bf behaved very much like Lizzy’s post” – yeah, they do have a pattern even though they think they’re so unique. but then don’t we all.
Lizzy says
MaryMary,
You make a good point. The women on rotation was a horrible experience, but I also realized that over time, his constant criticism of me would damage my self-esteem. Coupled with his flirting with any hot thing in front of me, the constant negative critique of whatever I did would take a toll. I have a Ph.D. so not a stupid woman by any stretch, yet he would make me doubt myself.
He also called all of his ex girlfriends “crazy,” and like Marie, I realized that it wasn’t them so much as he was so difficult. He made you feel crazy. He did that whole “gaslighting” thing where’d he’d do something outrageous and then treat you like it was you who had the problem. For instance, he had a party at his house once and invited his family and “friends.” Turned out all of his “friends” that he invited were women he’d slept with. I was so uncomfortable because he flirted with them in front of me. I should have ended things then, but I was so in love with him, I just ignored the red flag. Another time, I went to a holiday party at his work place. His old girlfriend (he worked with her) saved us a seat with her new guy (who also worked there). After about 10 minutes, I realized that all of the women sitting at our table were his friends with benefits at work. Again, I felt so uncomfortable. He left me at the table and went off to talk to more of them. The old girlfriend, who was now a friend of the family too (they invited her to all family events), told me that he always disappeared and left his dates and that’s one of the reasons she broke up with him. He was never attentive. She also told me that he was “odd” and then proceeded to tell me that many of the gay men at work hit on him.
Later, I often wondered if his inability to commit had to do with some latent homosexual issues and she was trying to give me a hint. Was he a guy on the down-low? I never knew for sure, but he’s the only guy I knew who got super excited about being hit on by a gay guy and even went out to dinner and rode in a limo with a guy at a conference who hit on him. It was either that or he was a narcissist who loved attention, any attention…from men or women.
Hard to say really. He always had walls up. In sum, whatever the reason he was emotionally unavailable and whatever the case, ended our engagement in the most insensitive ways and left me with the majority of the bills for the huge wedding he wanted. I just wanted a small, intimate wedding, but he insisted on a big wedding so he could invite all of his old girlfriends.
The more distance I get from the entire relationship, the clearer I see that he did me a huge favor by ending things. Now I am very cautious about dating any never-been-married men approaching 50.
Larz0 says
Lizzy, you’re doing yourself a huge disfavor. You dated this one guy who sounds like King of the Jerks, and now you’re going to cut yourself off from a major portion of your eligible dating market. As terrible as that guy was, a big part of the problem was you! Why did you put up with all of that? Until you know how to recognize good men from any age bracket, it would be best to just concentrate on your children and stay single.
It wasn’t his age — it was his character! Until you learn to recognize good men and demonstrate self-worth by avoiding all others, you should steer clear of men from all age brackets.
Mark says
@Clare #145
“”They are all uncommittable, afraid of intimacy, overly independent or selfish to some degree””
I am able to sum up these character traits that you describe in two words……”SELF PRESERVATION”
Mark says
@Steve
“”Who are the men it is possible for you to date? Single never married men or single divorced men. There are no other possibilities.””
Thank you!…….You just “corrected” all the delusional thinking that is going on here.The “rationalization hamster” is running amok!!!!!
michael1_4 says
I commented a long time ago on this site. Since there’s no dates on any of the posts I have no idea how long ago it was, maybe a year ago. At the time I said a lot of men don’t get married in their 20s or 30s because they just don’t want to and its crazy to think there’s something wrong with a guy that just wanted to enjoy his 20s and 30s without having to worry about commitments. I still believe that. I guess what I would add to this now is that if marriage is your goal there is always someone looking to get married at any age. For men I admit its much easier. Swing a stick and you’ll hit 50 women looking to get married. Lol. But even for women, if you keep yourself in shape and have a good attitude (don’t be a downer) there are many men out there looking to get married after 40.
hunter says
@160,
…How true!!men will pay if the bootie is in shape…!!
Lizzy says
@hunter & @michael1_4: The booty can be in shape. This late 40s booty is a size 4 and runs 3 miles a day. I am a 36-26-36… and I get hit on by guys in their late 20s and early 30s. I have a great attitude and am a lot of fun…that wasn’t my ex’s complaint. The other woman he left abruptly after he asked her to move in with him was a former professional cheerleader who still cheered. She was also gorgeous and in great shape, a really great person too. I ended up finding her and she shared a similar story with me.
That’s not the point here…the guys we are talking about are men who lead women to believe they plan to marry them, but the back out or keep them hanging for several years. These guys always find something wrong with the woman… there’s always something wrong with everyone. I don’t think there’s any man or woman who is perfect. You have to want to make a commitment. You can be the perfect 10 and every guy’s dream in your attitude, but that will not prevent a guy who is afraid of real commitment from backing out at the last minute.
hunter says
#162Lizzy,
“keep them hanging for several years”…….I was told, when a woman stays with a man more than one year, “she” doesn’t want to get married……the few women I have met have been very smart, bright and intelligent…
hunter says
@162lizzy,
..It would seem as if the size 4, late 40’s booty, getting hit on by younger men, could stay busy, if she wanted to…
Trust the truth1st says
Curly Girl on #58, You stated that he does speak kindly of one day getting married. I am not saying this is the case for this particular man but all of the men over 40 that I counsel that has never been married have a fear of commitment. They all tell the women they are dating that they want to one day get married in order to string them along. Men afraid of commitment are the nicest guys, therefore they are the hardest to spot. In addition, some men that are afraid of commitment will indeed marry but will emotionally leave you and you will feel alone in that type of marriage. I counsel numerous men that are afraid of commitment and this particular type does not want to change. Some will string a woman along for 10+ years. When they are with you, they are thinking of some woman in the past but if they went back to her they will be thinking of you. They are always living in the past.
j says
Wow I bet you have some interesting stories! I have almost never seen this type of guy marry or or get serious. In my experience they do appear nice or at least some do but when you scratch the surface deeper they can show a real mean streak that takes your breath away. It seems they dont like to let someone down gently when they change their mind and their lack of accountability, tact or compassion for the woman is just not there. I believe they prefer to live from afar so they can achieve perfection and not deal in reality. And I’m sorry but there is a big ass hole factor too. The one who took me for a ride and admitted he knew he was an ass but in 2 seconds turn around and blame me . Im married now but if ever single again would never deal with this type again. Widowed, divorced anything but an older never married. If other woman can handle power to them.
judy says
Michael 11 – stay away from divorcees? Fantastic. Maybe you prefer a woman who is married and cheating? Because that exists too. Or a woman who is in a marriage and who is bored. She’s still married, right?
If anyone is reading that married women all cheat, that is not what I’m saying.
But geez, if a woman divorces, she can make a mistake, can’t she?
Ditto the guy. If he hasn’t been married, maybe he lived with someone and it didn’t work out. No wedding ring.
It isn’t always the guy’s fault or the woman’s fault if a relationship goes wrong.
What IS true is that sometimes we don’t see a lousy relationship before we go into it – as in, shit, I’m not compatible with him, once the wedding ring is on. (Been there, done that).
John Morgan says
Based on your “rules,” the probably of my existence would fall somewhere around 1/4,000,000. Honestly, your writeup is comical. These kind of stereotypes make it harder for all single men. I suggest you write about something else. John, way over 40, never married, highly successful, straight, Christian man.
joe says
I’m an average to above average looking man and am kind, affectionate, compassionate, giving person. I’m a buddhist, and I don’t drink, take drugs, or beat up on women…basically I’ve been described as a gentle, kind, and spiritual person. As I reflect back at previous relationships, I was cheated on twice by two different women, and was told by one that what she needed was a “Real Man.” Not being able to understand my misfortune with women, the “dots” finally became connected when I read an article about a disabled man that was dropped by his lady companion…she boldly told him that what she needed was a “Real Man.” Yes, I also have a disability. Sad to say, but being a person with all the noble character traits that some women look for is not sufficient. When I meet a woman that looks interesting…I’m tempted to converse with her, but hesitate…long enough to lose the opportunity. Thoughts of…well, she’s probably looking for a Real Man…a man that’s not physically disabled….what chance do I have…slim to nothing. I’ve basically accepted my singleness and with the obvious conclusion that I’ll probably never be able to find a woman that accepts a man with a slight disability.
hunter says
@joe#168,
…study bedroom techniques….around here, we don’t give up on anything….
Ronnie says
The “red flag” assumption is an instant, major turn-off to me, when it comes to many women’s thoughts about never-married 40+ year-old men. As a never-married 40 year-old, currently single man, I’d argue that bachelor men of our age are clearly not a monolithic bunch—any more than married or unmarried women of the same age. The ‘red flag’ fears are, in many cases, a reflection of many women’s own various relationship insecurities; the constant (peer/societal) pressures they confront in finding a man, and ‘settling down’, have kids, before time runs out, etc..Sure, I concede the author’s point that some of the lasting stereotypes about bachelors over 40 have some substance to them. Then again, any gender/demographic can be ascribed with generalities like the ones used to lazily, and often unfairly characterise the never-married man over 40. I reckon many such men are often very direct and honest about their intentions in romantic relationships like these—without women having to guess and wonder, or worse, harshly judging and mischaracterising these bachelors in their 40s. The onus is on women to judge and decide what they are doing with, and what they are seeking in a bachelor man of that age. If he isn’t looking to (ever) marry, maybe he should steer clear of the woman who’s only really gunning for marriage.
Me says
I’m 58, neither handsome nor ugly, not a player, and am definitely straight, and have never come close to being married.
The reality is that I’m pretty much a loner who simply has little interest in dating or relationships. I go years between dates, and don’t really feel like I’ve missed much at all. Every relationship I’ve ever been in has been so stressful that I’m generally relieved once it finally ends. What’s so ironic is that nearly all my closest friends are women, so getting along with them has never really been an issue.
So I can say from personal experience that there are men who simply don’t care about dating or being married. In my case, it’s simply not important to me.
hunter says
…true, if you go years between dates, you won’t feel like being married…for some men it takes many relationships before they destress….some couples are not married….
Unwanted says
Speaking from a 48 year old unmarried man’s experience. Some men are unwanted. There is not a damn thing one can do about it. Society has its rules and if you rebel and are a conservative man with moral values,your left out to dry because your considered boring. I know all too well…
starthrower68 says
Lol! Seriously? That’s my kinda guy! But I’m prolly not good enough. I think I’ve got pretty much every strike against me. 😀
Adam says
There is nothing wrong with not dating or having sex. I myself am married and I had sex once since married but only that one time. That was 46+ years ago, since my early 20s I’ve had no interest in sex, intimacy, sleeping with another person is disgusting. Physically I’m a normal guy got all the right stuff in my body for sex, but I don’t mentally. My wife and I haven’t associated with each other for just about all 46 years, and to me that’s no big deal . We live on the same piece of property but two different buildings.
Dan says
Well, to tell you the truth, there are a lot of reasons a guy might still be unmarried at 42. Now, I am 31, and I’ll describe myself briefly; 6 ft tall, black hair, blue eyes, in good physical shape, no addictions, etc, never been married, no kids. I have been told I have model quality looks, and I make a decent amount of money (apx. 40k a year) as a waiter. Being single with no kids, that is a good income.
Until about three years ago, I had no real desire to get married– or even get into a serious relationship. In addition to not being married, I have never dated anyone longer than 2 months- and the last relationship I was involved in was in 2007. That makes my situation even stranger. Most people, even those whom have not been married, have usually been in a yearlong or longer relationship by the age of 22 or so.
Part of it is I expect from someone else what I expect from myself. And they fit into the following:
1— I will not date or marry someone who has been divorced. While half of people go through that, why should I- a person without this experience?- deal with the baggage from that. Not only that, but since I have not been through it, no, I don’t know what it’s like.
2— I have dated women with children before, -but-, never again. Two reasons for this; one is I actually like kids, and I get attached to them. So when things end, it is hard on them. Second thing is, while so many single moms want to get remarried, etc, they do not really want the new man to be a dad to those kids. Sure, they want the guy to spend his money on their kids, drive their kids places, etc, but then when these same children have a disciplinary problem, the first thing (from both mother and child) is “You aren’t my/their father.” Not to mention, if the real dad is around to any degree, he will (at best) compete with me, and (at worst- especially if he hasn’t moved on) do everything he can to stir up these children against me. After all, if the mom splits up with me, then he can swoop back into the picture, right?
Ladies, don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against single moms, but the fact is, I literally read dozens of profiles a week on different websites, etc, and invariably, the first thing I notice is a profile pic with the mom with her kid. There is nothing wrong with having a pic or two of your family, but you’re main pic should be of you, not your kids, dogs, friends, etc. After all, I would be dating you. And while children are great, there are plenty of great kids out there, so your kid’s picture isn’t going to influence me in any kind of a positive light.
Second, and even worse, is the usual opening line is “Any man I date is going to have to understand that my kids come first.” So, basically, what you are telling me is you want me around for a paycheque, a warm body to lay next to, and in return, I have absolutely no right to make any decisions in any would-be household. Not to mention, many single moms have a female friend/relative/etc, whom they leaned upon while going through their divorce, etc, and this person almost invariably is going to try to get between her and me.
When you write profiles like this, you only attract guys who are losers or worse. No decent man, with any kind of a job, is going to agree to pay your bills and feed your kids, in return for coming second or third or even further down on your list of important people. If you expect me, or anyone else, to put you first, and all you can offer is second or third or fourth, really, that’s a bit one sided. You are going to keep attracting losers of various kinds, layabouts and criminals, etc, as long as you have this attitude.
The best bet for single moms? Date single/ divorced dads. They will understand you’re situation a lot better, as they are dealing with many of the same issues. But guys, like me, who have never been married and don’t have any kids, it isn’t a good bet.
Even worse are the single moms who already have a kid or two, and don’t want to have any more. So you want all of the above, but then you won’t want to have any children for me?
3— This leads to the third main problem I find. Assuming that a woman has met my first two criteria, which eliminates about 90% of the available women over 25 or so- there is usually some other problem. Either they are the type of woman who never wants to get married (such as a career woman or a closeted lesbian), or there is some major issue. It could be drug addiction, criminal history, or simple laziness. I don’t have these problems, so why should I deal with them?
4—- Ok, so now we are down to maybe 2% of women over 25. Women who have never been married (check), no drug or criminal history (check), no kid (check)- but who want to get married and have kids (check). That still leaves somebody out there for me, right? After all, since there are roughly a million people where I live, there should still be roughly 5,000 or more women like this. That’s still one in 100, maybe one in 50, but ok. So what is the final disqualifier?
Most of these women, who are great people- real sweethearts- they are physically unattractive to me. Yes, different people find different looks attractive; some men like big women, some like midgets, some Amazonians, but that’s not me. The majority of this 2% that are left are single because they are overweight, plain, or otherwise physically unappealing. I wish I could be attracted to someone I’m not attracted to- I have known three great women that are friends of mine, who I could have dated if I’d wanted– but it simply doesn’t work that way. I’d never be happy, not fully, and everyone deserves someone who enjoys them. And if you ever get into a relationship with the idea that the other person would be perfect “if only” they “lost weight/ worked harder/etc,” you are only lying to yourself. While people do change over time, they change only when they want to, and no amount of cajoling from anyone else is ever going to force it.
So what does this leave me? Virtually, nobody over 25. Maybe ten percent of that 1 or 2%?
This doesn’t even include possible religious conflicts, political conflicts, etc, or the simple lack of chemistry, or cultural differences.
So what does that leave me? Well, 7 years now without a relationship, and probably the rest of my life alone. And that’s fine. Marriage is a serious thing, and if people took it more seriously, there might not be so many divorces- and single moms- out there.
Jenn says
Dan,
You seem to be making a ton (and I do mean TON) of generalizations in your post. You are effectively painting yourself into a corner by doing this. You are 31 years old. The women you date will most likely have a past (unless they are 16, but even then they could still have baggage!). You will do yourself a BIG favor if you accept that fact. You are more likely, as you age, to come across women who have been married before and have kids from those unions. By eliminating them, you are effectively siphoning your dating pool down to a puddle. Let go of your stereotypes and the assumptions you’ve made based on the minuscule sample size of women you’ve dated who have this kind of history – not all divorcees are bitter, and not all women with kids are just looking for a stand-in daddy to pay for them. They come with a certain set of challenges, yes, but you are not doing yourself any favors by closing yourself off from them because of your fears. As to your third problem, yes, there are people who have made mistakes. They’ve fallen into addictions or broken laws and gotten caught. But it should not deter you from being with them unless they’re still using/committing crimes. If they’ve dealt with their demons and are healthy in mind and body today, and/or paid their debt to society, why judge them for things they might have done long before they ever even met you? And I’m betting that while you may have never suffered through an addiction or transgressed in any way, you are not perfect, so don’t throw stones Mr. Glass House. You’ve made your mistakes, too. As to your last point, all I can say is that there are plenty of very attractive people in the world who are still single (you said yourself that you are attractive, after all). Being overweight or plain-looking doesn’t have to be the reason they’re single. For all you know, maybe that slightly overweight girl that you are dissing has had five boyfriends and just recently broke it off for her own reasons. If you are not attracted to overweight or plain women, fine. But I hope you are not thinking you deserve a 9 or a 10 and are holding out for them. If you are, then I can see why you’re still single. You are deserving of a woman you find attractive. Just be aware that while you might be looking for that perfectly cut diamond, you might be overlooking the basket of lovely pearls at your feet.
Dan says
Jenn,
I never once said I was perfect.
Basically, what you are telling me is that I should lower my standards. Why is that?
How many single men my age, or older, are in the bracket I’m in? Probably the minority. Most single men have kids, etc, even the ones who have never been married. Not to mention, most are losing their hair, gaining a paunch, etc, by 31. Since I am in the minority, I expect a woman to hold the same standards for herself as I do for me.
William Penn said it best, “People pay more attention to the breeding of their horses than they do of their children.”
I won’t have children with someone with addiction problems, etc, past or present. Even if they are in the ten percent who actually quit, who knows what kind of diseases they may have lurking inside of their system (we all know the way female drug addicts earn money, after all.)? Not to mention, their is a chance that a child of mine would inherit these problems?
And who are you to tell me I don’t deserve a 9 or 10, without seeing a picture of me, even?
tamara says
@Dan: Well you’re kinda picky, but I would think u’d still find quite a lot of women (between 25 and your age of 31) who fit your criteria–of being unmarried, no kids, no criminal or drug history, and not unattractive. U said it’s ‘ten percent of that 1 or 2%’–so 0.1% or 0.2%? No it should be higher than that.
If I made a wild guess at the percentage of 25-31 year olds who fit that criteria, I’d guess it’s more like 10-20% and not 0.1% or 0.2%. The reason u think the percentage is so low is, I think, because that’s the proportion of women in Your life who fit that criteria. But among the women my age I know, maybe 70% fit the criteria–although it will drop quite a lot over the next few years while some get married as we’re in our mid-20s now.
You said ” who are you to tell me I don’t deserve a 9 or 10, without seeing a picture of me, even?” Talking about ‘deserve’ is a subjective value judgement. It’s hard to discuss smthg so subjective so it makes more sense to talk about whether u can likely get a 9 or 10.
Although u may be a 9 in looks, that doesn’t mean u’re a 9 in other impt aspects. I think u’re making a mistake in assuming women value a man’s looks as much as a man values woman’s looks. Women who are considered a 9 are often not going for a man who’s a 9 in appearance, they look at other aspects too. The women u want are likely to have been born in higher socioeconomic backgrounds, which makes them even more picky.
(Btw minor point, not all addicts became prostitutes, which is what u seem to imply. Prescription drug addiction is a big problem these days; I had a sleeping pill addiction but since they’re cheap I didn’t have problems paying for them; not all addicts were hooked on drugs that cost $15k a month. I think it’s silly to write off anyone who was once hooked on painkillers or other such meds, they’re not former prostitutes swimming in STDs and it’s kinda offensive to imply this).
Anyway, u’re free to be attracted to whoever u choose. But bear in mind that the longer u wait, the more women in ur age group will be married off and having kids. If you’re rejecting 7s while waiting for 8s, 9s and 10s, u may regret it but find the 7s are now out of your reach. Alternatively, I’m not trying to be mean, but if u really want a 9 and u’re not getting them, it may be that u need to improve yourself in some way.
RustyLH says
@Tamara,
I actually agree with this post. Especially this part.
“Anyway, u’re free to be attracted to whoever u choose. But bear in mind that the longer u wait, the more women in ur age group will be married off and having kids. If you’re rejecting 7s while waiting for 8s, 9s and 10s, u may regret it but find the 7s are now out of your reach. Alternatively, I’m not trying to be mean, but if u really want a 9 and u’re not getting them, it may be that u need to improve yourself in some way.”
It translates very well to this
“Anyway, u’re free to be attracted to whoever u choose. But bear in mind that the longer u wait, the more men in ur age group will be married off and having kids. If you’re rejecting 7s while waiting for 8s, 9s and 10s, u may regret it but find the 7s are now out of your reach. Alternatively, I’m not trying to be mean, but if u really want a 9 and u’re not getting them, it may be that u need to improve yourself in some way.”
In short, it says that if you desire a 9, and think you deserve a 9, but you aren’t getting what you want, then it is very very likely that you are not what 9’s want. If it is that important to you, then you may need to invest in yourself. You need to find out what about you is not appealing to them.
Maybe for a woman, that means cosmetic surgery, and or, a serious workout program along with healthier eating. Or, maybe she also needs to fix her personality. Women way way way underestimate just how important their personality is, and as a result, most women have a sucky personality.
For the man, he may need to get a degree and better job. 9’s and 10’s cost money. Lot’s of money.
I think that for the most part, people these days resist accepting the reality that they themselves are not as highly rated as they want to believe. I would say that many 7’s and 8’s refuse to believe that they are not a 9 or 10, and most average people think they are a little above average, as in 4 to 6’s shifting themselves up 2 spots to a 6 to 8. Since they don’t do that for those around them, it creates a problem. I always think this when a woman has trouble finding a man to marry but stubbornly refuses to compromise, saying, “I know my worth.” Uhm..well…actually…you over-estimate your worth.
I think the most abused word in the dating/marriage topics is “settled.” I think that the truth is, when a woman thinks she settled, in fact she ended up right where she belongs. In short, what she really wanted was out of her league, and she had to “settle” for a guy in her league. And that’s the most painful part, isn’t it? Actually having to accept that you aren’t the catch you think you are? And that goes for both men and women.
hunter says
..find a way to date women, most men don’t get married, ’cause they don’t date…
julia says
Lol you think that only 2% of single women over 25 aren’t divorced, don’t have kids, aren’t drug addicts and don’t have a criminal background? Where do you live?
starthrower68 says
I’d be curious to know what region of the country you are in. In the Midwest, you might be able to find the Holy Grail of women. But I’m betting in somewhere like NY or LA those girls are already being snapped up by the very wealthy. I’m not saying they are gold diggers or that men with lower incomes don’t deserve them. In small town middle America where I am, the Homecoming queens that I might consider a 10 here might be a 7 or 8 on either coast.
Rhodall says
Well, let me tell you. I met a man once, 38 years old, never married. He acted like he just had to get married. I worked a lot of night shifts with very few days off. I had a little part-time job as well. He knew this going in. He filled my head with all kinds of fairy dreams. I was much younger than him. Turns out he had himself an even younger woman with a baby. Was the baby his? I don’t know for sure. Anyway, not long after I left he married this woman. I only found out about the baby because I snooped. I only found out about the woman because somebody slipped and in a moment of anger, let me know that I was not the only one. It was a horrible time in my life, as I was very much in love. So I’m thinking, if he had this much trouble with women at the age of 38, what in the name of hell’s bells was going on with his love life during the 20 years prior? Ughhh. I should have stuck with the ones my own age.
49 guy never married says
I hate to say this but every married guy I know cheats so why get married? In addition I lived in Latin America where sex is available on demand – better than in any relationship I have ever had. Ok I miss the all-night cuddling but that is it – don’t miss the negative aspects that seem to outweigh the positive.
lady_Luck says
I think his only excuse would be that he is a total freak, or just came out of a really long term thing in which the woman did not want marmarriage (quite rare). The long and short of it is it’s a massive red flag. It usually points to committment issues and emotionally unavailable nature.
j says
In my experience never married older bachelors who have little to none serious relationship history live up to most if not all the stereotypes. I think they get pissed and go into denial about it and want to say its not true. But I’m sorry I’ve seen the similar traits and feel they’re alone because they don’t really need anyone so dealing with the hassles or risks of marriage and intimacy is not worth it. The only thing . I’ve talked to numerous women who have dealt with these types of men and you can predict that things never proceed past causal dating or friendship. Im married so it doesn’t effect me but me but I find it intresting. Thank facebook and internet dating not compounds these guys issues as more choice and cheap thrills are available to fill up the empty spaces where a real relationship would have been.
John Morgan says
Defective, player, workaholic, liar, self serving, weird, very picky, skin averse, risk averse, arrogant, self centered, socially awkward, can’t be trusted. Yes, let’s just line up all those 40+ never married men and shoot them. Reading nonsense like this on the internet gives me a better laugh than late night TV.
Mickey says
I guess life ends at 40 if a guy isn’t married yet. Oh well…
j says
Hey dont worry tons of women probably dont believe what us nay sayers spout. Women are mainly romantic optimists and want to give a chance. That’s kinda the way were wired. At least until kicked around good and hard.
Mickey says
“That’s kinda the way were wired. At least until kicked around good and hard.”
Just like guys like us…
rell says
I don’t see it as a red flag or anything wrong with it, maybe they just haven’t found the right woman yet, we all can’t settle for less, everyone should deserve better
hunter says
rell,
…I agree with you…
JP says
I know this article might be older but thought I’d add something to it for people to read. I am nearly forty years old now, a male and have never been married. I’m not a player – that’s pretty hard to be when you’re so introverted. I was always shy but came out of it in my twenties. Unfortunately I chose the wrong things to combat my shyness and depression. I partied a lot and after the partying was over I was alone and addicted to pretty much everything. I made a promise to myself that I would not drag anyone else down with me and avoided relationships, even after I met someone that I loved very much. I didn’t fight for her and let her go, even encouraged it in a round about way because it wouldn’t have been fair to put her through living with me at that time.
So years later I’m clean, sober but still not quite there yet. I’m not even close to where I need to be to feel comfortable sharing my life with someone. Once I’ve gotten rid of some of this baggage then maybe but I’m not looking. If it happens then it happens but I will have to be straight up with any woman right off the bat which is only fair and it probably also means there will be no second date but that’s okay. I’d rather be honest than to hurt someone later on down the road So what I’m saying is there are a lot of reasons men and women may be single at forty. Some good and some not so good.
On another subject (sorry I’m not trying to hijack the post) wouldn’t you like to know that the person you’re dating has been an addict or alcoholic or had problems in their past whether it’s a criminal record, depression, etc? When’s the right time to tell someone? Right away? First date, second date, etc. I just choose to be honest from the beginning because it just feels like the right thing to do.
hunter says
…JP..
..a seeing a dating coach makes a big difference…
40YrMan says
I turned 40 this year but have never been married. I lived in many countries, tried to start my business. I have fallen in love several times in my 30s but it didn’t work out. I am a good looking, athletic guy but I was too sensitive and not as persistent as the other guy and the other guy usually white so half their battle was won. I found the lady would go for a guy who is less sensitive usually simply because they persisted. Many times the lady would come around once they got to know me and be interested in me but often by then I was not interested because I felt they were superficial (as in I am not white). I met a great lady (27 yrs) three months ago but she is moving overseas (just had her farewell a few days ago). She has invited me there but that is a jump I am not yet ready to do. I met another beautiful 22yr old when out dancing and she doesn’t seem to put off by my age but I am taking it slow. We hit it off instantly. She is going traveling soon but we plan to catch up when she is back. One good thing about being 40 is that I know what I like more than ever. I have come to accept that most girls prefer white guys (regardless of what they may say) and that is just how the world is. The rare exceptions are worth the wait. I grow older but I still pass for 25 and I am patient.
alec says
This man is dating you long distance. That makes it more difficult for him to meet you, but easier to date and talk. Why is this guy over 40 not dating locally?
Episteme says
In making stereotypes of behavior based off posts here, do keep in mind that those with a point to make — for good or ill — are the ones most likely to post online in comment threads. The anecdotal material here is hardly representative of men and women as a whole.
Myself, I’m a 34-year old unmarried man with no relationship experience, but I attribute that to health issues in my latter tens/early twenties followed immediately after by becoming the caretaker of first my mother (after a series of heart attacks followed later by a fatal stroke) and since my more-elderly father (who turns 80 in a few weeks, has been having parts replaced methodically over the past decade and hasn’t driven in nearly twenty years). Returning home unfortunately meant coming to a place which didn’t have any opportunities for the esoteric degrees I had earned and meant that I had to restart my graduate work in a different field. I’ve been working multiple part-time jobs and attending night classes sporadically over the past decade to allow me to care for my father as he deteriorates (as my married brothers have opted out of the caretaker role), leaving me no time to date, nor the social or financial capital for it. This is a situation that may well continue until I’m forty: in fact, I hope that it does, since the alternative is his death.
From my discussions online, I’m not alone in such responsibilities keeping me from marriage. Certainly, I’m much younger than most caretakers, due to the later ages of my parents at my birth and the sudden situation of my mother’s unexpected health crisis, but this is something that other men are dealing with too. The irony that I’ve spent my youth for their elder years isn’t lost on me — much less that this likely means that no one will thus be there to care for me when I’m in the same situation that they’ve been in…
JennLee says
I think it is wrong to assume that just because somebody is unmarried at 40, there is something wrong with them.
Take this person, who could be a man or a woman.
1. went to college and had the normal college life of dating, bf/gf, and times of being too busy for a love life.
2. graduated from college, working hard to find a job. Not focused on a love life yet.
3. found a job, but there is much to learn and the stress is through the roof. Too tired to make a real effort, so relationships fail before they even launch.
4. now settled into a good job, and now in late 20s. Date several people looking for the one.
5. find a good person and start into a relationship. This stretches from late 20s to early 30s.
6. the relationship fails, so a period of mourning, and concentrating on self starts.
7. now in mid 30s, a search begins anew. It takes a few years of dating, but you find somebody to enter into a relationship.
8. it lasts a few years, and now you are very early 40s, and now you find out this person has a deal breaker flaw they were hiding, or you catch them cheating. Relationship ends, so now you single, and over 40.
I think the only real flaw would be that the person may not have made finding the right person, a big enough priority.
Chuck says
This is the perfect answer to all this debate. It’s the story of my life and while I have my share of baggage like everybody else, I believe I’m not damaged goods or incapable of intimacy or whatever other nonsensical theories are carelessly and callously tossed around like awful accusations. Some people just haven’t found that so called special someone yet and it’s just how it is until he or she does.
Really True says
Well at 60 years old now divorced again, and Not my fault at all since my first wife Cheated on me and wanted out of the Marriage. Second wife was and still is Bi Polar which was a nightmare for me since she put herself in debt with the Credit Cards, and caused me Bankruptcy too. She would always try to start an argument with me, and the slightest thing that i would say wrong which she would jump down my throat. When i finally left her, she was 55 thousand in debt again. Her daughter was Autistic too which i certainly had my hands full as you can see, but i was very protective of her since many other children would make fun of her. Now single and Alone again makes it very hard at my age trying to meet a good woman to settle down with since many of the women that i meet are Very Stuck Up nowadays, and play very hard to get. At my age now i am certainly Not into the games that these women are playing today, and they really need to Grow Up.
kosmos says
I would have thought having been seperated would be worse than never having married.
Nick says
I am 42 years old, never married, only 4 relationships my whole life,, lost my virginity at the age of 34.. All not my choice.. I got my first kiss at the age of 21.. Girls always rejected me, still do.. Some things we can not control. I never thought that by now I would never be married, and not have kids. was never my choice. Dont know if it was God’s will,, or the Devils work.
All through out my 20s and 30s I asked hundreds of females out, all rejected me. Can not change what is meant to be… Hope to hear from you ladies out there.
hunter says
@Nick#190,
I think seeing a dating coach can help out with your situation…
Susan says
I dated a man who was over 45 never married no kids. He was not going to settle down anytime soon so i got rid of him and he is still single. I found out that he was seeing numerous women and also having a few FWB to boot. Been there done that will never go back
JoeSchmo says
Sounds like this guy’s got the life!
Guest says
Really? 5 Hour long telephone conversations and emails nearly as long? And you mean to tell me this question has never come up? Or to put that another way, have you ever asked him why he is still single? Do you believe him, is that the real issue? It seems to me when women ask such a question – is this a red flag – they already think it is. The problem is are you correct. But this is no different than any other chance you take with any other person you date. There are any number of reasons a guy – or girl – might be single at 40 and over and they are not all negative. I would have to say there might be an increasing likelihood of it being negative but until you ask and find out you will never know for sure.
Guest says
Steve, just had to add great post that #28. Lets not forget the ol’ “He must be gay” assumption as to why they are single. They have nothing to go on but that he is single. How that equals gay I have yet to figure out but it appears to make women feel better about themselves.
All I can say is, thanks for the insult – that really makes me want to get to know you- NOT!
Grace says
I have started seeing a 47 year old man who has never been married. He has everything going for him and a fantastic life! I love that he doesn’t need a woman. I’m 49, divorced, and am more concerned about the needy people on their 3rd marriage, or people who.need someone to take care of them. Or like my ex husband, who define being a man as be being in control of a woman. The new guy probably has some attachment issues, but so do I. Its a spectrum anyway, whether needy or avoidant. I love that he doesn’t need a woman to cook, clean, control, or depend on for social or cultural support. He is perfectly competent.
diet cola says
Well, as a 48-year-old who has never dated or had sex, because of terminal shyness, social anxiety and complete disbelief I have anything to offer or that people should be interested, after reading the comments here I guess I might as well just slit my throat.
Jim says
Guys are finally wising up and realizing marriage is a bad deal. Take the redpill and don’t look back.
Gary says
I am 46 going on 47 I was diagnosed last year with Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
I have never had a girlfreind I have tried but nothing has worked I hope to try and change this through theropy.
Sim123 says
Hi. My comment is a guy never married in his 40s may be date able to some women. For example one woman wrote she is seeing one gentleman and neither of them Are that interested in marriage. I am a divorced 36 year old woman with no kids who is really looking for marriage and children. The reason I am divorced is because my husband threw me out after he got his Greencard otherwise I would still be married. I am not interested in ltrs that go nowhere.
In my experience never married guys in their 40s are not As serious about marriage because they have never been committed before, so likely I won’t have success with one of them.
Marc says
I am such a mess right now. I’m a 42 y/o gay black male and lately, most importantly, since my moms death I have been obsessed with love and romance and I feel like I deserve a boyfriend. Then I have dated a couple of guys and I have been a total asshole to them at the slightest imperfection. I have a big chip on my shoulder and have even found myself hitting on my straight guy friends. When they don’t respond I dismiss them. Who do I think I am. I know were not suppose to look for love but I don’t want to be an old maid. Please help I’m still living with my dad but I haven’t been seeing my therapist
Blaine says
I love the internet for the vast amount of information. American women do stereotype men automatically more so then men do to women. Let’s face it, American women all have an agenda. I totally agree with Steve, obviously I am not the only one who feels this way. There are more men out there who have been trying to find the right one such as I. Sadly, I think I am going to have to renounce my US citizenship and move to another country that is separated from the status quo attitude. I have been told all my life that it will happen for me, I know now that it is all bull$hit and it won’t as long as I am living in the US. I have dated numerous times but I seem to attract either the psychos or the ones who are desperate.
I am NOT looking for a slave which is what every woman here automatically thinks when I say the things I do. I am looking to actually fall in love and have a woman fall in love with me. And if it means getting rid of my US citizenship so that I will have what I desire, so be it. Being a US citizen is actually a curse, not a blessing.
Mickey says
Blaine:
When dating/marriage becomes 100 percent risk and zero percent benefit, there isn’t much point in the so-called pursuit, is there?
Becca says
I suppose some men just don’t want the responsibility of a wife, which might mean the responsibility of a family. I have known several men who never married. Now, I don’t pretend to know everything about them, but for the most part, they seem pretty decent to me. I’d just hate to be the unlucky female who happened to fall in love with one of them. All these guys seem to have been close to their Moms. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But take a chance on love with them? I don’t know. After so many years as a single person, you tend to get set in your ways.
Mickey says
@Becca:
I readily admit that I never wanted the responsibility of a family. That said, isn’t it better to never have that responsibility than to get married, have kids, and then decide after the fact that this wasn’t for you?
r says
So these men are garbage to you. I got it.
realist says
I honestly don’t understand why a single man in his 40s should be “stigmatized.” A lot of MARRIED men in their 40s leave their wives and children for other women – especially much younger females. So is the implication that the married men committing infidelity in their 40s are NOT to be stigmatized and the stigma should go to the single guy in his 40s? That doesn’t make sense.
I am in my mid 40s and studied public health with a focus on prevention. I learned how to maintain proper health and exercise as a lifestyle. I can still run a half marathon well under 2 hours and play campus basketball at the student rec center with college students. I still have all my dark hair and do not have a receding hairline. I have been told I look about 10 to 12 years younger than I actually am – a guy in his mid 40s who looks like an athletic 30-something guy.
The way I see it, I am not a married man in his 40s who is leaving his wife for a much younger women. I go the gym and still deal with a lot of flirting from college women. So I shouldn’t be stigmatized for being a single guy in his 40s meeting much younger women in the first place!!!!. It’s better than getting married around 1995, waiting about 20 years, then dumping the aging wife for a young woman.
Put the stigma on the married men leaving their wives for younger women. I know for a fact the middle-aged women don’t like it. Ever see “First Wives Club.” I’m meeting the younger women in the first place because I still can. I like to go to the gym and workout like in that film “Vision Quest” when I was a teen and still get the flirting behavior from the college women. And then it’s great to run the full-court fast breaks. To hell with aging too quickly.
jon says
Dating someone over 40 who has never married is not a big deal, unless you want it to be. One thing is for certain, there is RISK involved in forming or sustaining a relationship. If you’re not amendable to a degree of risk, stay single regardless of your age. One more thing, at least they’re not contributing to the high divorce rate in our country. Seems to me, more US citizens need to wait until their 40 to marry….
Mari says
I believe I have been a man’s step-n- stone. Start life’s relationship or wife until they can go on to a relationship they started behind my. Back, I have had five husband’s and all of them have started a relationship with me until that other woman. Got divorced or broke up with there mate. So I was just a stepping stone. Until she became available to him.
Robert says
Uhmm. I find myself being a successful single male, never married, without children and in my 40’s. I’m Robert and I live in North Dakota. I do think that some stereotypes hold merit….as this one might. I, however, would like to share my story. I have never cheated in any relationship.. My thoughts are be a responsible adult and be honest with yourself and your significant other.
I have had 3 long term relationships one for 3 years, one for 1 year and finally one for 7 years. Which brought me nearly to my 30’s. I lived overseas for a few years in Holland for work and dated while I was there. I moved back specifically to “settle down” even though I was never much of a playboy. I had always had this plan ….. I wanted to be successful before marriage..my father warned me not to get married too young… he said things like “First, you must learn who you are”.
I knew I wanted to wait til I was in my 30’s, financially/emotional stable and responsible enough to be able to care for and support my wife and child/children.
I saw so many people have children and struggle as young adults… I think it was the thing to do in our early 20’s. That might have scared me into taking the safe road.. the first 2 serious relationships weren’t going to lead to marriage… not because of the women.. because I wasn’t ready. The 3rd woman could have and probably would have led to marriage.. if both our parents and the woman didn’t keep pushing me towards it… I ran out of defiance and pressure. Again, I wasn’t ready.
Fast forward to 2008 when I moved back to the states. I am ready to meet a great woman and am ready for a serious relationship. I find myself getting hit pretty hard financially … ok to the extreme. In 2010 I move to North Dakota to work in the energy sector. I struggled for a couple years to build myself up in a new career. 2014! I made it.. I decided to take the plunge and open my own business. In June of 2014 O&G starts its decline…a decline of nearly 80%.. I’m still here plugging away at 80-90 hours a week. WHY?
For her.. I haven’t met her yet… and I probably won’t meet her where I am. I understand this.. I have gone on a few dates here in Boomtown, USA. 2 showed up drunk and turned out to be huge drinkers.. I’m not a big drinker. I tell them that I am a superintendent and just pass on their invitations… why lead them on and get into a situation where I know there is no future. I might be the picky guy..? but I can tell you … just because I can sleep around doesn’t make it right or make me a ladies man. I don’t want a lot of women.. just one.. the perfect one…. perfect for me.. with funny shaped ears and a crooked smile… those things I miss greatly about relationships.. those things make them special.. just for me.)
I’m doing what I do in N.D. so I won’t have to later. I will be selling the company at some point and moving to …. wherever we decide.
41 , employed, single, normal, well traveled guy that wants to have things in order.. so I can be the best husband.
otieno says
Well, I am a 40 year old personal trainer and retired social worker. I have had a string of bad relationships with wonderful women, which ended because they were seeking something greater than me. There is nothing wrong with me being 40 and single, I wish women would stop having preconceived ideas and assumptions before dating me. Because of this I stopped dating altogether, I’m left encouraging myself.
otieno says
I am quite a handsome African man with so much going for me. It is the same here as it is in America, women of today think in extremely childish ways, that if you’ve never married, you can’t marry. That’s like saying if you’ve never ridden a bike, you can’t ride, are they prophets now? How do women even purport to know whether a man in his 40s is responsible? As if we can’t love our kids. Why are they thinking they are God and trying to predict the future as if they are more important than us? Then let them go and be thrown away by the players they like, leave us with our strippers and whores.
Jeff says
Good comments and article. Why is it we over analyse such things, instead of just enjoying life for what it is……
It does not matter in reality (except the Internet) a persons history or age. What is important in my humble opinion, is right now and the immediate moment in time.
Someone much wiser than me (83 years old) once made a comment, “If I buy an older car, I want low mileage, good service history and no previous accidents”. These traits actually have more value…….
BLaw74 says
I’m going on 42, in great shape earn good money love my career and have a large circle of friends many of whom are women. I have not married yet because I do not believe in divorce and I have not met her yet. I have been in love severa times and it was amazing, but for one reason or another we were not right for each other. My parents are still married and very much in love.
you cannot claim all guys are players if they haven’t been married. Singles outnumber married people in the US for the first time in our history and there are more singles over 40 than ever before. also men unlike women may want to provide and wait to feel capable of supporting a family. This article is itself a stereotype. Even the GOOD reasons she lists for unmarried 40s are stereotypes. Take it with a grain of salt.
Mia says
I also don’t believe all over 40 yrs old man have problem, but some definitely do.
For example, this guy I know is 40 and he’s never been married. I know him for little less than a year and now I can see what his problem is. He always likes to talk about the money. Without me asking him, he told me how much he makes and blah blah blah… Who cares? He did this when I met him for the second time (I’m not dating him). He might have tried to impress me but dude, you are doing it in the wrong way. Some women might be impressed by how much you make but not all of us. Obviously he loves to work overtime as he gets richer doing that. But my question is what do you do with all that money? He just annoys me.
And another reason why I think he is still single is that he seems like a really selfish guy. I’ve met so many people in my life and he is definitely one of those people who are in selfish side. He doesn’t try to meet my convenience and he twist my arm to get him to do things with him. Are you a kid? I only know him through some business relationship but he annoys me so much. Good thing is that this business relationship will end soon and I will not need to see this guy or talk to him again.
Justin says
I’m a single male nearing my 40s and I have never been married. I have never been unfaithful to a girlfriend, not once, yet I have been cheated on numerous times. I was always very shy in Jr High and High School, and I was too afraid to ask the girl who I was absolutely head over heels for if she would date me. I finally met a girl during my senior year of high school, and we immediately fell for each other. We were together for four years, and we got engaged in 2000. We were inseperable and I loved her so much. We never fought, we just seemed to be made for each other. I had a good job at the time, so I supported both of us while she attended school. I travelled on certain weekends for work, but she was my priority.
After being engaged for about nine months, I noticed that she was much less affectionate than she was before. She began to go out to bars and clubs with her friends and spent less time with me. I wanted so badly to have evenings when we could just be together and cuddle on the couch. She became more distant as time went on, and after questioning her about what was wrong, she admitted to me that she had cheated on me with a good friend of mine. I was hurt, but I forgave her and pretended it never happened. Before long, I found out she was cheating on me with at least two other guys. I was crushed. I remember crying myself to sleep when she wasn’t home. I realized that she was not ready for marriage, and she was looking for guys to hook up with.
I’m a rather short guy (5’6″) and she was slightly taller than me. The truth was that she simply wasn’t attracted to me anymore, and she was looking for tall, athletic guys to hook up with. I never had a height complex until that happened.
After she made it clear that she no longer wanted to be engaged, we moved out and went our separate ways. I never cut her out of my life though, because I still loved her deep inside. We remained good friends and kept in touch. I helped her out when she needed something, and I was always there for her.
Five years later, we were still close, and we began seeing each other again. I had gotten myself in incredible shape and she wanted to try again. Just a few months into our renewed relationship, she was in a severe car accident and passed away a few days later. I was in absolute grief and went into a deep depression. I was 26 when this happened. I gradually came out of my grief and tried to start dating again.
I finally met a wonderful girl who I fell in love with in a couple of months. I really loved her and wanted to have a steady relationship. I thought she loved me too, but when I told her how I felt about her, it scared her away because she just wanted a physical relationship. She said I was an amazing and kind person, but she couldn’t see herself with me in a long term relationship. I undetstood, but I was still in love with her. The pain was nearly unbearable.
Time progressed, and I dated a few more girls after that. I was always happy with the relationships, but I always got dumped after about three months after being in a relationship. I was always told that I was a truly wonderful, nice guy, but apparantly I lacked something that women were looking for.
I had a number of girls tell me that my height was an issue, and they just didn’t feel like I was “the one”.
I just wanted somebody who I could share a loving, affectionate relationship with… Someone who could love as deeply as I could, but the older I got, the fewer prospects I had available.
I dated a few more girls after that, and in 2007 I fell in love once again with a beautiful, amazing girl with a two year old daughter. She told me she loved me and I was in love with her. Her daughter even began to call me “daddy”. At that point, I knew I loved them both, and I wanted to be with them for years to come. It felt like I had a family and I loved her so, so much. She would always tell me that I was wonderful, and that I was too good for her. I assured her that I was the lucky one, and that I was happier than I’d ever been before. Just a couple months later, she met another man and left me for him almost immediately.
I was in so much pain. I couldn’t hold myself together, and I literally cried every night for months. I fell into a depression that lasted for years. I didn’t date again for seven years.
The last girl I dated was in 2014, and she was recently separated from her husband of 15 years. She had four beautiful children and we hit it off pretty quickly. However, once the divorce proceedings began, she told me that we couldn’t see each other any more because she didn’t want to hurt her chances of getting full custody of her children.
I’m getting close to 40 years old, and I’m still single and live alone. All I ever wanted, as long as I can remember, was to find a love that was mutual and pure. I love to give and receive affection and I’ll do anything for the girl I love. I don’t get into arguments or cause unnecessary drama. I just want a relationship with someone who loves me as much as I love them. I’m the kind of person who doesn’t fall out of love… I love with all my heart, and without that love, I feel a deep void in my life.
At my age, my relationship options are few and far between. I can barely remember what it feels like to be hugged or kissed. My life feels empty and lonely, but I do my best to have hobbies and goals so I can continue living. I feel like life is very lonely and difficult though… If I only had a few more years to live, I don’t think I would be devistated. I have achieved a lot over the years and I have my material possessions, but they are worth very little compared to finding real, true love that can withstand the good and bad times.
I miss being able to show my love to my special girl. I miss the companionship, the affection, and the bond that real love creates. The sad part is that I don’t know if I have ever truly been loved by any girl I’ve been with. Real love lasts forever. I’m growing tired of living a lonely, loveless life.
Art says
I’m 39 gonna be 40 in the coming year and all I had was a single month relationship throughout my life. At first I felt that I was a cripple trying to run without legs when it comes to attracting girls. I had plenty of female friends yet being friend zoned was a certainty. They all told me I was handsome but of course hearing that and yet not being handsome enough for them told me in my head that was just a pity story for them. I held no apathy towards them..I just accepted that it,s just nature’s way of selection of attraction and I was not meant for selection.
Years later it turned into a hatred…a growing seed of emptyness where I had a dim view on not just women but the whole game of dating and it gave me a perspective seeing from afar hanging with friends. Seeing how superficial pick ups were, how girls would go out with the “jerk” so to speak. How a single word or gesture in the first seconds of your life will determine if she likes you or not. In the end I felt being judged every second when I was being sincere. My openness towed caring for another was threatened by the very girls that I wanted to share with. Agian..I felt the laws of natural selection playing it’s game.
Later in the years it came to experience..or the lack of. I was already being generalized as some sort of creep or loser the second I told them i am a virgin in my late twenties. I guess one night it hit me…i didn’t want to be hateful for the rest of my life. I was able to see my lack of skill of talking to girls was creeping into a depression or more accurately I felt I was going through a withdrawal of a addictive drug but without the benefits. I guess I wanted to turn my single status and turned into a weapon against my hatred and unhealthy obsession for finding love that I have seen cripple others in the same situation as me. I wanted revenge and live a positive life and free of the addiction that made me feel so lonely the last decades. Looking back I felt I have gone through an emotional battle accepting the truth. I am not part of the natural selection process..love is blind ..so it will never find me. I felt I let go a poisonous part of my life…i feel free..I do get a little stab in my heart ..a little bit of emotion crawls out and tries to lie to me that I still have a chance of findinging someone…then I remind myself of all the superficial bullshit people who never been in my situation..and here their rose colored fairy tales of how easy it is. Those ignorant empty words give me strength ..no a challenge to stay single. Because there are more of me who are in the same situation..and we are growing. Intimacy is the most foreign concept to me…except knowing that it has no logic to it as all emotions do. It can inspire and also destroy…love dwaldles on both good and evil taking no true accountability but only taking credit for the successes and leaves the room when someone fails at it. The risks are great..that is no mystery to me. We all take risks..for me I feel I’m taking a bigger risk…but I know the reward of self sustained emotinal positive life is a absolution rather throwing for heart to a girl who is fickle with her emotions. (Men of course are are capable of this as well.). When my years of absence of another become more then the years ahead a question grew inside me…but I guess it was always there….”Why is love such a big deal?”. Love is just an emotion..a perk so to speak but not a right..like driving….just because you deserve love does not mean love will come to you and even if you work hard at it it’s not a absolution. If it was Every single person on earth will be paired up and that is a fairy tale believed only by the true naïve. Love is not for everyone..cause not everyone finds it. Because I did not find it should I suffer further looking for it? Should I listen to people who never been in my situation who have the audacity to force false hope upon me?
Robert says
You know, reading all this “Advice” is really confidence inspiring, NOT. So Women aren’t supposed to date men over 40, who have never married. Women want men who can take care of them, they want the men to be educated, and women want men who own their own home. So if you don’t make much money, don’t own your own home, and didn’t go to college, or university, that pretty much makes you, “Undateable”, or “Damaged goods”. Well that’s just great, any of us in this boat, might as well stand in front of an on coming train, and get it over with, because what all this “Information” suggests, that those of us, in this boat, are relegated to a life of singledom, never to love, or be loved by anyone, just because we fall short with finances, and education, and such, that “Experts” deem necessary for a successful relationship. This is just an observation, of what I’ve read so far, in the area of “dating for men”.
r says
Conclusion is unmarried guys over 40 are garbage according to most ladies.
Davis Love says
Great article and comments. I’m 39 and I don’t think there is anything wrong with me for being a life-long bachelor. It’s taken me this long to beginning feeling who I am as a person. I now realize that process is a long journey. Despite all the career and travel success I’ve had, I feel utterly worthless as a human being and crippled by anxiety on a daily basis. So, I keep trying to move through this and to see where it leads me.
I would love to be able to share an intimate relationship with someone, and one day a family. I would love to be able to understand and pursue my desires and passions without deep feelings of fear and shame. I’m just beginning to allow myself to feel and express anger and frustration over this situation. But I am quite aware that I am emotionally unavailable and simply don’t want to disappoint whoever is on the other side of that. I fear replaying my parents’ story. So I tend to avoid the (many) attempts that women (and male friends) have made to get closer to me over the years.
In the end, I think what is most important is not whether the guy has been married before, but whether he is aware and has started the process to connect with his emotions. Many of us are in denial of who we really are and marriage itself is not a fix for this. It could be that a man in his forties is finally realizing his personal empowerment. Or it could be that he is just getting more cut off from himself and set in his habits. There may be no good way to tell because of all the walls that people put up around themselves. But, if you are curious, I think the right man would always appreciate being asked about it in a non-judging way 🙂
Michelle says
I am a 48 year old widow. Single 6+ years and dating 5 years. I have had multiple male friends tell me they would never date a widow. The reason they gave me…. They would always feel like I was comparing them to my late husband. They also said I would always be in love him. I found the very interesting.
Men find me attractive and I am shopping for one, so I date quite a bit. A frequent first date question is “so how long have you been divorced ?” They look horrified when I tell them I am widowed and fiallow up with condolences and apologies. If I was still grieving I would not be out with them to begin with.
I hope to find somebody amazing that treats me with kindness, love and respect just like my late husband did. That’s having called self esteem not comparison.
I do my best to stay away from never married men without children. From my own experience I have found them to be somewhat selfish and arrogant.
I also rarely date widowers, they seek you out when they first start dating… thinking there will be a connection and understanding. Usually the date turns into a grief counseling session. They want to hear your story and share theirs. Not great material for a fun first date.
So that leaves divorced men, as the best option. I find the good ones claim they grew apart and successfully co parent. Men that have been cheated on usually have significant issues. I am shocked how many of these guys there are. Seems women are more likely to be unfaithful these days.
Now I just need to figure myself out. I think I could be referred to as a serial dater. My longest relationship since I started dating again has been 6 months and I date a lot. Being honest with myself I do believe it has little to do with my loss and a lot to do with the quality and being picky.
R says
Every man I’ve dated over 45 who was never married was for good reason. It usually took 3 months or less to see why.
I’ve even met a few whose longest relationships were at most 2 years. Not seeing each other but once or twice a week.
All of these men were looking for the perfect woman that doesn’t exist. Always looking for flaws. Commitment phobes? Selfish Definately. They played the field, a lot. Successful and charming.
Ill take a divorced man any day over these men who have zero experience with real relationships. Especially after a never married 53 year broke my heart into pieces. A runner love avoidant.
I had a 15 year relationship and engaged to someone else that became extremely controlling after I moved in.
Emily Greene says
I don’t agree with all that is said, however, there is NOTHING wrong with a man who has never married and he’s over 40. Rarer still are the men who have never had sex with anyone and are waiting to save themselves for marriage. I would gladly love to meet and date and if it goes well, potentially marry a man like that over a widower or a man who has already married and divorced. The latter are just a huge turn off to me and not worth the time.
Guest says
MGTOW is the very smart way to go for us men nowadays which will save us a lot of pain, torture, misery, and keep a lot of extra money in our pockets as well.
Paul says
Lol for many of us good single men trying to meet a good woman that doesn’t sleep around all the time.
Gary says
Well I maybe under 20 in college, but if I end up 40 and can’t find a woman who loves me, I’m going for the “Mail-Order bride” in fact I’ve started saving up since I was 16 just in case.
GaryG says
I maybe 20 in college, but if I end up 40 and can’t find a woman who loves me, I’m going for the mail-order bride. I’ve been saving up since I was 16 just in case.
james d sain says
I’m 51 never been married is there something wrong with me? I don’t think my standards are super high.
Jessica Soo Jung says
I find it interesting that no one’s has brought up the single unmarried man. Who is also the single never dated man. If you want to talk red flags. They are weaving in your face here or are they?
Different reasons why a man would be in his 40’s. Never dated and never married. I can’t imagine how anyone could have that much discipline. But after talking to one. I found it intriguing here.
Not to mention commendable that he stayed single. In taking care of his parents, sister & a disabled friend wow!! He never made time for himself. Because he spent all that time taking care of others.
It’s so easy to judge without knowing people circumstances. Granted someone who is 40 who never dated and never married. Probably is somebody somewhat socially awkward to begin with.
But doesn’t mean that they’re not a catch either. If a guy like that ever did get married. You can probably bet it would only be once.
Rea says
Do not date a 40 something never married man. He’s a man child.
Ellen says
Don’t date a 40 or over male who’s never been married, it’s like dating a kid. DON’T DO IT
Tori says
I’m seeing a 42 year old man who has never been married, and has no kids. After reading this thread, I’m thinking he could be a virgin waiting for the right woman. He doesn’t strike me as a nice guy player at all. I know some of you guys think we American women can’t appreciate a good man, but I have to say if that is what I’ve found—I’m going to cherish this man. If things work out between us long term, he’s going to be treated very well.
Bruce says
My gosh… so much judgement, negativity, and bitterness from people who aren’t so perfect themselves…. multiple divorces? multiple children? Entitlement? no problem, but that guy that never got married/didn’t have many relationships for whatever reason? yeah let’s call him broken with a blanket statement. I didn’t get married yet because until few years ago I didn’t feel ready to be the partner I should be… Due to my childhood I’ve always been shy, so meeting people usually happens at a slower pace for me. I’m not classically handsome but it’s not like I’m horrible either… My house and car are paid off and I have a well paying job/career. At 40 I’m ready to be the good partner she desires… but ain’t life grand… apparently now I’m more of a red flag than the man/woman who left their partners twice. Unfortunately, the older i get the larger the amount of these folks around. We tend to want to partner up with people who are like us… which is fine, but please… the judgmental attitude does no one any good.