Did I Just Pressure Him to Go Out with Me Again Against His Will?

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I met Jim online a week ago. We spoke briefly on the phone on Wednesday. He emailed me on the same day and we made plans to meet up for dinner the following Wednesday.

I suppose I have two main questions about this:

a) In between the initial conversation and dinner meeting, we did not correspond at all. He is a lawyer and seems to be very busy but should I be reading anything into this? Probably not but I suppose the fact that I’m thinking about it means I am??

b) After our dinner date last night, I sent him an email thanking him for dinner and said that I had fun. He responded the next morning that he had a nice time as well and to let him know if I would like to do it again sometime.

I guess I wasn’t sure what that meant as “sometime” is a very vague time frame – wouldn’t you agree. So I placed the ball back on his court and wrote “It would be nice to do it again. But since you are the one with the busier social calendar between the two of us, how about you tell me when you’re free next?” He responded with “How about next Monday or Tuesday?”

I guess right now I might be over thinking this, but I’m not sure if I just managed to almost “pressure” Jim to go out again out of politeness?

I am not really sure what to think about this. Your input would be much appreciated.

Thanks again so much for all you do.

Cathy

I’m glad you wrote this, Cathy. It gives me a chance to explain something that often gets lost when giving blanket advice about “what men do” on a widely read blog.

There’s no point in overthinking it this early in the relationship. Ultimately, he’ll reveal himself in his efforts over time.

If I could wave a magic wand and make men please women on their terms, believe me, I would tell the guy who procured a date with you in a week to check in multiple times before the date. Email. Text. Even call her on the phone to talk. Yes, guys, women want to know you’re thinking of them, that you want to get to know them better, that you miss them, and that you are willing to make an effort beyond paying for dinner and expecting sex once a week!

Unfortunately, I don’t have that power. And here in the real world, there are many men who:

    a) Didn’t get the memo that the way to a woman’s heart is by paying attention to her.
    b) Have made great efforts for women in the past and were told that it was too much, so they’ve backed away.
    c) Are genuinely caught up in their jobs and don’t have much time or bandwidth for small talk.
    d) Don’t see the need or value to connect in between dates. Their goal is simply to get the date on the books and see you then.

I can’t definitively tell you which guy you’ve got on your hands. I can tell you that there’s no point in overthinking it this early in the relationship. Ultimately, he’ll reveal himself in his efforts over time. If you don’t like a guy who puts in no energy in between dates, you can either tell him you’d love to hear from him more, or break it off with him for a guy who naturally does a better job.

But I suspect I know which guy you’ve got on your hands based on your second question:

You’re dating both a) and b).

“After our dinner date last night, I sent him an email thanking him for dinner and said that I had fun. He responded the next morning that he had a nice time as well and to let him know if I would like to do it again sometime.”

That’s not the move of a confident, experienced, alpha male. That’s the move of an insecure, inexperienced beta male. Sorry for the crude black and white terminology, but I want you to get the greater point.

The confident guy calls you the day after the date and says, “That was great. What are you doing on Saturday? I know of a great Italian restaurant that just opened a few minutes from your house.”

The insecure guy doesn’t assume you like him. He doesn’t assume you’ll say yes. He doesn’t trust his own decision-making. He just wants to lean back and see if you like him. Of course, the more a man acts insecure, the less women respond to him, but that’s another story for another day. The easiest way to understand men like this is to think of them like women. You and he are thinking the exact same thing: “I hope he/she liked me. I hope he/she makes the next move to ask me out again.” The problem is that you get caught in a passive stalemate, where each party is waiting for the other party to step up and make the effort. Thankfully, you did — and you saw how quickly he responded to agree to another date.

You just nudged a passive beta male into nailing down a plan — which is something you’d better get used to if you keep on dating him.

Finally, Cathy, one way in which men and women are decidedly different:

Women often go out with men in order to be polite.

Men never go out with women to be polite. Second dates cost us money.

Put simply: if we like you, we go out with you. If we don’t, you’ll never hear from us again.

Thus, you can rest assured that you did not “pressure” Jim into dating you. You just nudged a passive beta male into nailing down a plan — which is something you’d better get used to if you keep on dating him.

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Comments:

  1. 21
    JD

    We are all lucky that Evan is not a dating advisor for men, because humanity would die off from lack of reproduction. “If I could wave a magic wand and make men please women on their terms, believe me, I would tell the guy who procured a date with you in a week to check in multiple times before the date.  ”

    No, no, a thousand times no! Every guy who’s new to dating tries to do exactly what is advised here, and the result is always the same: the woman flakes. There is nothing that turns you off more than the appearance of neediness, and this screams NEEDY!

    Making the woman sweat it is ESSENTIAL, no matter how much she might not enjoy it, because she simply cannot and will not be emotionally fulfilled by the date if it comes about that way. She most certainly will not recognize the reason she isn’t interested in the guy, which is why she probably disagrees with this post, but it’s still true.

    If a guy is eager to please, a woman is bored. Period.

    1. 21.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Poor guy. Thinks he has to play games to do well with women. Sorry, bud. I was a call-the-next-day guy who built up trust and rapport before my dates…and got a LOT of action doing it that way – specifically because women were tired of guys like you, who aren’t confident enough to pursue and resort to manipulating women based on their insecurities. Anyone who gives advice about how to play games with the opposite sex is hereby banned from giving advice

      1. 21.1.1
        JD

        Evan, you seem to be in need of the same conversation I’ve had to have with some of my good-looking male friends who think they have dating advice to offer:

        Being good-looking is not a skill.

        A good-looking  person of either gender has people develop crushes on him without doing anything at all, even without talking to them. Whatever interacting  he does “works” only because failure was nearly impossible.

        But when an average person tries to duplicate his “technique” the results are horrible. Average-looking women know this. Average-looking men also know this.

        There are a LOT of Average-looking guys like me who followed your advice and got no dates at all for years, and guess what happened when we stopped being direct, straightforward, honest, sincere, and chivalrous and started acting like the girls we liked were afterthoughts? The result is actually much more of a genuine, equally-invested relationship, once you build up to it.

        It’s not supposed to make sense. Believe me, I still don’t like it. I wish women’s attraction could be rational and straightforward and honest at the outset. But that’s simply not how emotion works!

        I don’t expect you to like the truth. But that’s the funny thing about uncomfortable truths: they’re TRUE all the same!

      2. 21.1.2
        Billy

        I love this discussion! Surely it is a balance, and about being genuine. I would never think of it as “letting a woman sweat” – playing intentional mind games is not nice on either side. But giving her enough space to express what she wants and show some interest is great. A lot of women are busy lawyers/economists/vets/business owners too and are busy living their lives, not waiting by the phone.  I had a first date with a guy who followed up with a shower of texts in the middle of the day that I was beautiful, sweet, and gentle, and kind – all of these “traditional female” attributes that are wonderful, but totally not the compliments that will speak to me. He also seemed to expect an immediate response in the middle of the work day. Anyone who payed attention to me for 10 seconds would have picked up that this isn’t how I roll. I felt that he was a decent guy but was following a script from a website- not cool. Total, epic fail in fact.

        But – Treating your date like a person deserving of respect and a little attention? Asking if she had a nice time and if that Big Meeting or Trip Home to the Parents she mentioned went well? 100% classy move. I rather suspect that is what EMK was suggesting.

    2. 21.2
      Rebecca

      I’ve never gone out with a guy who made me “sweat,” I can’t imagine why I would want to, and I see guys as considerate rather than needy if they avoid treating me in ways that I don’t enjoy.   I’m not much for games – I appreciate men who treat me well and do my best to be just as thoughtful in return.

  2. 22
    JohnUtah

    It’s weird the way everyone skipped the huge elephant in the room: if you “check in on them multiple times” and then text and then email and then call and then tell her you’re thinking of her and then tell them that you miss them and then tell them you’d like to get to know them better… a large percentage of women will view this as a huge red flat. He’s coming on too strong, too soon, he’s desperate, he’s needy, he’s too aggressive, I barely know this guy, obsessed-stalker alert etc, etc.

    In other words, you’re advising him to act exactly like the beta male loser you correctly described in your article.

    The message women give to men is indisputable: do the opposite of the advice written here.

    1. 22.1
      JD

      Exactly, John. Exactly. The sad truth is that women’s role in dating is to make it hard, and men’s role is to overcome them. Call it evolutionary if you want. Survival of the fittest – the fit man (the alpha) is the one who resists women’s calls for him to be beta!

    2. 22.2
      US MARINE CORPS

      Yeah I thought he was somewhat harsh to be judging this guy from a couple interactions. I agreed with his options though. You can see from these comments how women are all different and he may not be sure how to succeed. It’s like walking on egg shells sometimes, you simply agonize over not trying to screw it up. She focused on “sometime” and jumped to immediate conclusions. She thought it meant anywhere from 1 year to never. When I say that, it means in the immediate future. What if he said “soon”, she might flip out over that…”is he too needy??”..”Is he a potential stalker? HELP!”.

      I don’t think she forced it on him, if I don’t want anything to do with her then I skate around it or just tell her I’m not ready to pursue this. Once he knew she was gung-ho then he offered days to go. I think this is a lot of overthinking.

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