Should Women Ask Men Out on First Dates?

I often have debates with my girlfriends about this, and I couldn’t agree more with Evan!
Most men understand and accept (with the exception of the shy ones that Evan pointed out) that facing the sting of rejection is a given in the dating game. They hate it, it sucks, but they soldier on and risk it anyway *if they think the woman is worth it*. If the guy sees a woman smiling and flirting and doesn’t ask her out, then he’s either involved or not interested (lots of reasons why that could be). Bottom line, asking the woman out just wasn’t that serious to them because if it was, they would’ve risked rejection and done it. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t want to start an association with a man trying to convince him that I’m worth his time if he doesn’t feel that way already, and that’s what a lot of women risk if they openly and agressively pursue men.

Plus, some men are just too poilte (and others too opportunistic) to turn a woman down, and will ultimately take advantage of a situation where they know a woman wants them, even if they could care less about her. Why would a woman set herself up for this kind of dynamic?

I think really shy guys are the exception (somewhat), but there are probably fewer men that fit that definition than some women would like to think.

Great point, Blue. But no, it’s not a contradiction. Because the mediums are completely different. Online, you don’t know who’s looking at you, what they’re thinking, who they’re seeing, etc. You can’t afford to be passive because of the variety of options presented to men.

But in real life, if you know this great guy from work? And you have been friends for six months, and he still hasn’t asked you out? He’s probably not gonna ask you out.

Thank you for calling attention to this subtle nuance. Online, YES, ask him out – as long as you’re being coy and flirtatious, rather than over-complimentary. Make him chase you. Which means that it’s pretty much the same advice as this article. You’re writing to him online, but you’re not asking him out. You’re teasing him so he asks YOU out. Therein lies the difference.

Well, how does this advice fall into the “Who pays for dates?” deal? It used to be common manners that whomever does the asking should be prepared to do the paying. Some men get irked because the burden of doing the asking falls to them, and thereby the expense. And some women claim they are fine with paying their own way AND their dates, and don’t have a problem asking men out either.

So now Evan, you are telling us the same thing our mother’s and grandmother’s did, “Don’t ask a man out because you will come across as too aggressive or desperate.” Okay, we buy that as a general rule. But does this mean we should offer to pay if we are asked out, or not? And if we don’t (because Hey! He did the asking) then are we not being fair to the poor guys who think we are only out for a free meal/entertainment? Most of us aren’t by the way, but nothing we say convinces the men who have this mentality.

BooBear Apr 3rd 2008 at 10:46 am 7
So Evan, men are just big pathetic babies who are so fragile they have to have their butts kissed all the time??

BooBear thank you for posting the above quote.

I have found that intelligent, educated and intellectually honest women can often be blind to double standards they hold in regards to women and men. Your quote is a great example to use to illustrate this. I mean this with no sarcasm. Like I said, even cool women do this.

Lets say a woman is in a situation which threatens her sense of femininity in an objectively trivial way, but one that would give most women mildly unpleasant feelings.

A woman joins a previously all male institution and is ordered to have her head shaved just like all of the other men and women.

She will be injured in no way and will be every bit of a woman after the haircut. Other women would not dare to mock her feelings of nervousness at having her hair completely removed and if a man made a comment like “buck up bage, it is not big deal” he would be seen as crass.

However, consideration for a man’s sense of masculinity is not also similarly respected.

Whether you want to say it comes from nature, nurture, or both for most men their psychology is set up to be the initiator in social and sexual situations. Some men are threatened by the reverse while for other men it just feels odd to the point that they would rather deal with another woman.

Bottom line, it feels odd to their sense of masculinity. Instead of respecting ( not necessarily agreeing ) of that, good people like you will feel no problem about mocking or trivializing men’s feelings in this regard.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Getting attention is the feminine equivalent of “scoring.”

For your average man, getting inside a woman’s pants is what affirms for him that he’s attractive and desirable. A man who manages to get a woman to get naked with him feels good, because he feels validated.

For women, all it takes is knowing that you want her. That’s it. Once you look at her (or strive not to look at her) in that way that says, “Wow,” she knows that she could have you if she wanted you. It reaffirms for her that her sex is worth something. It reaffirms that when it comes time for her to make her life choice she can demand a high price because she has what men want.

That’s why women lead men on and then give them the cold shoulder. Once you give her that look, you gave her what she was after.

She doesn’t need anything else from you, so she sees no need to continue treating you nicely.

Some women will smile at you across the room, lick their lips, do everything but rip their clothes off, but when you cross the dance floor and say, “Hi! Want to dance?” they say, “With you? Yeah, right.” Why? Simple: the minute you walked across the floor to ask her she had what she wanted. The rest, for her, is academic. She knows that if she’s horny she can have you, but she doesn’t want you.

She just wanted to know that you wanted her, and she’s all done.

Let me make things clear: if women asked men out 50% of the time (which they claim they do but obviously don’t) and tried to interest men (again this absolutely never happens, even if they do strike up a conversation first; they always expect the man to jump through hoops so that MAYBE they will be swayed by his silly antics) – then you would have a basis for complaining that men usually screw women over.

But in reality, men ALWAYS have to pique women’s interest, it is NEVER the other way around.

AS SUCH women 100% forfeit any right to complain.

Here we come up against the inevitable conflict between the male and female social roles and circumstances. Because men are the “designated initiators”, they are the ones who have to take an active role in “finding” that “one”, while women get to sit in their towers and pass judgment and indulge their penchants for cruelty.

The net effect for women has been two-fold. As long as they continue to rely entirely and exclusively on the passive strategy of attraction and abuse the sexual power they have, they are automatically sorting out all but the most aggressive males. Thus their attitudes become self-fulfilling prophesies as they make themselves so obnoxious that any man who is capable of sensitivity and warmth cannot stand to be around them.

Deathslayer

okay, so if you give the signals, he comes over and talks to you for an hour and then doesn’t ask for your number, is it okay to give him your number?

Smartcookie,

Of course you should give him your number if you feel comfortable around him.