What Do Men Get Out of Looking At Other Women? (And Why Do Men Cheat?)
Dear Evan,
What is it that men get out of looking/gazing at beautiful women, nude or otherwise?
I have read on other websites that men actually get a chemical “high” in their brain when they see an attractive woman and that is why they are so drawn to look at other women even when they are in love with another. I’m wondering, from your perspective, what you think it is. Are men sexually “turned on” when they see a beautiful woman naked and automatically fantasize about having sex with her or is it more of just plain old admiration for the beautiful female form with no arousal? And, if it is sexual arousal, does that happen only in seeing a naked woman (magazine, strip joint, porn) or does that happen when you see a beautiful clothed woman as well? I have always been very curious about this as I think it is very different for women. —Cat
Dear Cat,
Thoughtful and provocative question, and I’m going to attempt to tackle it even though I’m no therapist, historian or biologist.
First off, I want to acknowledge that everything you wrote, in my estimation, is true.
Men, regardless of relationship status, get a chemical high in seeing attractive women.
Men can appreciate the female form, either clothed or naked.
Men, regardless of relationship status, get a chemical high in seeing attractive women.
Men are aroused by images of clothed or naked women (but not as much as you’d think.)
What I’d like to add to all of those ideas is that none of that should affect your relationship…unless you make it affect your relationship.
In other words:
GOOD men, regardless of relationship status, get a chemical high in seeing attractive women.
GOOD men can appreciate the female form, either clothed or naked.
GOOD men are aroused by images of clothed or naked women (but not as much as you’d think.)
Without covering the entire landscape of debates about DNA or evolution or propagation of the species, here’s my take on the whole thing:
Men, since the beginning of time, were designed to spread their seed.
Because monogamy lowers the chances that our genes will survive, men are not, by nature, monogamous creatures. We choose monogamy because we deem that it’s more beneficial to have love, stability, and a nuclear family than to have lots of children running around with our eyes. But make no mistake, monogamy is a choice, not a natural state.
Men can watch porn, fantasize about other women, and still be great husbands and fathers.
Anyway, in my estimation, the male sex drive has nothing to do with kindness or personality or compatibility. It is entirely based on physical attraction, which we feel instantly with the release of dopamine, serotonin, and testosterone. This is why men can know if they would sleep with you in less than five seconds.
As far as what’s physically attractive? I think it’s largely based on societal reinforcement. Most men, for example, agree that symmetrical faces with small noses and certain hip to waist ratios (thin waist, wider hips) are considered attractive. Naturally, there are some men who like older women or heavier women or women with one leg. There’s a lid for every pot. Still, a lot of men still want to try on the same lid, who just happens to be 20-30 years old, have stunning features and is built like a Barbie doll. Moving along…
Next, I’d like to assert that a man’s sexual tastes and feelings of attraction don’t disappear because he is in love with another woman.
His intense feelings for his girlfriend may lessen his desires to look elsewhere for sex. But once those intense feelings of chemistry go away (as they usually do after 18 to 36 months — just long enough to conceive and raise a young child), his attraction will still spike every time he sees an attractive woman, in some form or another.
The more self-aware men understand this intellectually, and relegate those spikes of attraction to what they are — biologically programmed bursts of pleasure. We give ourselves doses of this pleasure when we’re walking on a beach, when we’re at an outdoor concert, when we’re at parties, and especially when we’re on the Internet. I’ve heard that 30% of the internet is porn, and if this is the case, it should be no surprise.
Men crave variety. This is normal. It’s all about whether he acts on this desire.
Men can admit attraction to favorite celebrities, and still be great husbands and fathers.
Men can watch porn, fantasize about other women, and still be great husbands and fathers.
Men can go to bachelor parties, go to a strip club, and still be great husbands and fathers.
I know this because I’ve done all of the above and I know I am not alone.
And since the value of my marriage is far greater than the value of sleeping with a stranger in Paris, I remain faithful, even though I’m attracted to other women everywhere I go. It would never even occur to me after 300 dates and nearly 10 years as a dating coach that there’s anyone out there who’d make me happier for the next forty years than my own wife.
That doesn’t mean in some alternate universe that I wouldn’t like to be able to have my cake and eat it, too. That’s essentially what alpha males do — get married and keep sleeping with other women. John Edwards, Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant – we can probably make a list of most politicians, athletes and rock stars.
Men would be perfectly content having missionary sex with a new woman every night.
So why do men cheat?
Because they’re perpetually attracted to new women.
Because they’re high profile, rich, ambitious men who are desirable to these women.
Because they’re so important that they don’t think the rules apply to them.
Because they travel a lot and are frequently exposed to temptation.
Because they don’t value their wives as much as the thrill.
Because they don’t rationally calculate the value of their losses. So Tiger sleeps with a waitress in a Denny’s parking lot and he loses a half billion dollars, his wife, his kids, and his golf mojo. Somehow, I don’t think he considered that with his pants around his ankles.
This is just a long, roundabout way of saying that, in general, men want variety.
I recall a study that said the exact same thing.
Men would be perfectly content having missionary sex with a new woman every night.
Women would be perfectly content with the same man forever, as long as he mixed it up in the bedroom a bit.
The results didn’t surprise me in the least.
Once again, I am not defending men. I am explaining men. Not every single man on the planet. Some men only have eyes for their wife. Some men are attracted to other men. Some men couldn’t conceive of having sex with a woman he didn’t love.
These are perfectly normal men, but they are also exceptions.
So even if we establish that men are driven by sex, it’s far from the whole story, as evidenced by the 50 million married men in the United States.
Simply put, men want love, too. Even if we still like to look elsewhere.
It’s far better to understand and accept these qualities in men than to shame them, insult them, or tell them that they’re wrong for being this way.
As long as he treats you well and doesn’t take action on his desires, you’ve got a good man whose desire for you is stronger than his real sexual impulse to be with someone else.
I have to say, this was a major growing up point for me, when I read Manslations by Jeff Mac, and looked at the evidence, and realised that, yes indeed, most men are on some level sexually attracted to most attractive women. Even the devoted man by my side.
It actually was a liberating realisation for me. It meant that, no, I don’t have to worry about that attractive busty blonde at the party, because she doesn’t mean any more to him than the tall, willowy brunette with the short skirt. Other attractive women are a fact of life, might as well get used to it.
Now that I know this, actually, how men’s minds work, I am vastly grateful and smile warmly to myself every time there’s a gorgeous woman around, or on television, and he keeps his thoughts to himself for my sake 🙂
And the key comment in your post is “smile warmly to myself every time there’s a gorgeous woman around, or on television, and he keeps his thoughts to himself for my sake ” my problem is when your husband TELLS you anytime he sees a hot woman……….” wow! wonder what it would be like to have sex with THAT!” Or how about this one…”God, HER boyfriend is a lucky s.o.b” or “Wow, that a great pair of tits..wish I could see her nipples better! Get the picture. Advice to me…look at women all you want – fantazie about having them sex with them – be the jerk you are but YOU DONT HAVE TO TELL YOU WIFE YOUR EVERY SHITTY THOUGHT. It is disrespectful and devalues her as your wife. You can bet this gal wouldnt get married again for all the tea in China!
Laura, I was married to someone like you shared; extremely hurtful! I left him and eventually married a guy that said my ex was a pig (knew him well) and treated me like a queen until the day he died 28 years later. My ex & I have a daughter and he told her that he regrets losing me and knows he was a fool. The funny thing is that we are OK with each other today, he is married to a great lady and I just recently got married to another guy that calls me “my queen”. The moral of the story is: there are tell-tale signs, watch for them while dating, whether he is a pig or a keeper—-heed them.
Raj so well said , a man who has wandering eyes is a disgusting man. He makes it look like women and sex and having a good f is everything. I disagree Evans thought, such a man is still a good man. I noted on dates , my man had wandering eyes to such an extent when having dinner out , he d ignore me the whole time and his eyes glued to a particular woman he found attractive . Thinking I could change this bad habit after I marry him and be the best lover for him he d give up on this habit. It worsened after marriage. Going out with him was very difficult . He d than come home and remark about my body not being good enough , my breasts not perfect ,my hair not right shade and length and texture . He even went to extent of telling me how he d love my body ,hair ,breasts to be after seeing other women. I was just not good enough. Evan is absolutely wrong in his observation ( he is man so yeah dhu ) . Wandering eyes leads to dirty thoughts leads to dirty wishful thinking, leads to demeaning his wife ,leads to pressuring the wife for a threesome ( which when wife refuses ) than eventually leads to cheating which in the end causes annulment of the marriage . So men with wandering eyes, don’t get married ,if ever you feel like you wish you had this or that woman , Save Hurting an innocent woman and being sexually abusive to her in bed . There are whores who can please you in bed ! Don’t use your woman as your bed Warmer and means to live your dirty fantasies just because she is your wife ! I realized I needed to be respected and deserve to be with a man who when we go anywhere be it dine out , walk to parks/beaches, I am made to feel special around him and with him. That he shows the world and to the other women around him that he is proud and happy to have me !i finally called it quits cause I couldn’t live up to his dirty fantasies and sex addiction too and to live in fear if I don’t oblige to his sexual needs , he will have a one night stand or affair with the woman he got attracted to because of his wandering eyes .
Great point and one which I’m currently pondering. Is he a keeper or a cheater. He keeps his comments to himself, I have no jealousy of her with him, I just can’t seem to get over the fact that he will find a reason to look again and again. That part just bugs me at some level, and I cannot put my finger on it. I know I’m beautiful, and have a great body, lots to offer. It isn’t insecurity, it is that little nagging feeling that doesn’t go away. And his denail that it is happening. You see I know ( or think I know- huge assumption) that Evan could talk to his wife calmly if she had a weird feeling about it…. my guy gets upset and storms out. Even when I hadn’t said or finished my sentence. I have never shamed or said it was wrong. I’m feeling very odd now, especially at not even 1 year yet.
Try smiling warmly at a handsome young guy at a party or drop a comment or 2 about the gorgeous guy next to the wonan he is commenting on. See how quickly his attention turns back to you. Worked for me :). Actually I don’t even notice now when my husband is looking at other women. I’m too busy checking out the other guys.
Dutchie i couldn’t have said it better. And it is so true, they disrespect in front of us but get twisted like pretzel when we do And mean our stare at a hot guy. Truth be told women are so much more exploited and in every ad or half dressed on any occasion in any tv, movie etc. so it is hard for them not to look or like . i suppose if we had the upper hand we would make them feel the same shitty way. There just isn’t enough hot guys that we are exposed to, apparently women sell the products better.it’s just that I don’t stare at every guy, which makes him more mad, if I turn my head because then he Knows I think he’s worth looking at. It’s all good they aren’t the only men on earth and we also have a pair of eyes😉
My issue in this circumstance is that I’m one of the few that doesn’t find other men attractive now that I’m in a relationship with my tall, handsome, athletic nerd. At the beginning of our relationship he used to remark on all the women he found were attractive and the usual statement that would follow was “she has big boobs” or “she has great tits”. I communicated with him how that made me feel and sometimes he still points it out in TV shows. But I find that I’m less hurt when I can identify with the character in the show, as if she was the film version of myself. He continually reminds me that they only look the way they do because of the lights and the touch ups that they have to have done. So I guess the lesson I’ve learned is to communicate and if he’s sincere about not hurting your feeling or demeaning you he’ll often make excuses for why they look so good. While still complimenting on how amazing you look, even when you think you look like shit. I was wearing the same leggings and shirt that I often wear and my hair was unbrushed and he said I looked “pretty”.
Dutchie, that is AWESOME. I’m gonna try this 🙂
I used to do that until he turn the table around pretending he doesn’t look at other women. I told him if he stop, then I will stop. Now he does it behind my back.
Yes I like everything you ssaid is are true give him a piece of his meds instead of getting mad
Pak! You nailed it girl.
Yeah instead be busy of checking other guy too.
How far do you think your relationship will go if both of you will do that?
Two wrongs don’t make a right..tit for tat isn’t the way to go.you’re just fooling yourself..
:thumbs up:
and women… do the same 🙂
Exactly! It’s disrespectful and hurts. Makes a person feel like they are not good enough or just good enough for now until the next opportunity presents itself.
I agree with Laura. Our society is in a very UNHEALTHY state when surveys reveal that virtually all men regularly look a PORN sites and just write it off as “totally acceptable” behavior for men. I’m sure these sites are probably the most DEGRADING and VILE scenes of women completely disrespecting themselves. Then we wonder why men disrespect their wives and girlfriends in such a way by gawking and making disgusting comments about other women. It’s just plain LOW CLASS and we live in a LOW CLASS SOCIETY, so please don’t sugar coat it as “men being men”. That’s PATHETIC RATIONALIZATION for men to continue to treat women poorly and add more momentum to a society of vile, low class immoral men.
Jane,
I am a man, I agree with your statement we are in a LOW CLASS SOCIETY.
However let me ask you few questions.
1) A male is programmed to get attracted to a female, most likely to a beautiful girl.. the beauty is defined by physical attributes. And he gets attracted to all beautiful girls, and due to situations he gets committed to a girl, commitment could be marriage or something else based on society.
My question is how this programmed basic instinct of the guy gets dead and sleeps when he sees some other passing by girl who physically is more attractive than the one to whom he is committed ?
I am not talking about he should have sex with other beautiful girl, I am not recommending or appreciating it. I am talking about his thoughts provoked by his basic instinct.
He could stop his sexual thinking further, but how do you prevent the thought itself?
And your way of thinking seems to be like since I got committed with him I only should be the most beautiful girl in his mind… but in reality is it possible? and for you is your guy most handsome than the ones you see on TV/Theater screen?
2) Society defined the program called “Marriage” to benefit women and kids, and possibly men also. But the same Society is allowing Movies/TVs to expose women as a beautiful object by wearing shorts.. and with romantic scenes… by nature Man is attracted to women and he easily gets aroused visually by seeing all those exposed women.
Why the same Society allowing this exposing of women beauty through media kill the brains of men?
Most men would just fantasize however they may not take any real action and still value your relationship. They take the responsibility of family and kids.
That’s what should be important to you and not their every thought…
And I definitely agree with your emotions when he really takes a real action of having sex with other women. Indeed it will be a cheating in our Society programmed commitment called Marriage.
Perhaps god/nature might have designed a Man to have his sex desire only until he gets 3 or 4 kids…
Then you might not be having a chance to say men as ‘immoral men’.
Beautifully put. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m glad I’m not alone having this same opinion. I was being called psycho and needing therapy for not trusting my then partner, until he got caught entertaining himself with vile images and videos of despicable women. Followed by crocodile tears, asking forgiveness.
I TOTALLY AGREE!!!I just wanna scream of how disgusted I am as well… well SAID!!!
Couldn’t have put it in better words.
Jane, I know the stats on porn, it has no positives, except to get an erection. It is damaging, it is as addictive as heroine and harder to get off of. It creates distance, disregarding to women, and doesn’t even fire the right part of the brain. It fires the part of the brain addiction does, like gambling.
What Evan said is true and yet untrue. From a psychological perspective Men can grow themselves up and be more evolved than that, understand it, instead of just ” acting on ” the default and calling it ” I’m just a man” and women have to accept it.
Porn is damaging our society at a rapid rate, 30% of online internet searches is for Porn, that is a sad, sad state.
I’ve talked to a few men that have done the research, instisted in knowing the truth about porn, and decided to grow past that caveman type mentality. They are very very rare.
We can justify it all we want, and yet that same thing is going to keep us from growing as a society. Men can also be addicted to the high they get from looking at women.
By the way women need variety too! I don’t know where the stats on that are from. As a woman I can at times have a sexual variety thing go on. I just have better things to do with my mind though. I know it isn’t going anywhere when I’m in a mongamous relationship so why bother.
What is happening now is reality, this is where men have evolved to, regretfully, but so. They still need to use the variety and visual aspect of them as a reason to do these things. They could choose to not. Simple! Unless they just want to do it, and call it being a man.
I’m not a man basher, I happen to love men, think they are amazing! Often time more so than women. I still know these facts to be true.
I would say that in this case Evan is right this is where it is now and good men can still do these things. So we as women have to decide if we can accept it for now, b/c this is where the majority of men are now. Or be single. Evan happens to be one of the Dating coaches that I admire for his total honesty, to his wife and to the public.
When they can sit with their woman while looking at a hot built man and still feel good about it, then it is even.
If he cannot, then it is a double standard. <3 <3
You are 100% right Jane! It’s that our society has taught men it is acceptable, and taught women that we are to just get used to it. Our society exploits women and that’s why men are the way they are. It is unacceptable, and us women need to stand together as one to change it. We should never feel like we’re not good enough, it’s not like men are exploited. Maybe we should turn the tables and see what happens to our society then? Let’s just say we live in a sad world, and apparently this writer has no recognition of what porn addiction is, and/or does to the individual consuming it, or the victims spouse. Porn addiction causes real problems by changing the chemical balances in the brain of the user, which causes a pyramid of health issues, including erectile dysfunction. And it’s the women who get the lousy lover in bed, because the man has porked his own sausage for too long, causing it to shrivel up to nothing. Young men should be informed in school during health class, so they may one day actually have real sex with real people instead of their hand.
This is exactly how I feel. I am happy someone out there doesn’t buy the lame excuse “men being men”. You made my night just reading your comment. It feels great to know that I am not the only person that feels that way.
Lisa is spot on with reference to porn. I do think that most men can view porn on occasion and be fine. But many men have huge issues with it when it comes to sex with a real woman. The number of men under the age of 30 suffering from porn induced ED is ever growing. Many like my fiancé are unable to ejaculate with a partner after years of masturbating to porn. And it’s because of this mentality that all men do this and it’s normal, that many men don’t get help or even relate their issues to porn use. By the time they do they have usually lost several relationships to it. I’m not sure if EMK has written on this but I highly recommend “your brain on porn,” the TED talk it’s on YouTube. The problem with the porn of today is that it gives you that variety in an instant hit and a huge hit of dopamine that real sex can never replicate particularly the same old partner. It’s totally different than checking a woman out at the mall or fantasizing about your coworker. I don’t think we can ignore this and I think the boys will be boys mentality is keeping these issues from being brought to light. I would say porn is okay unless it effects your relationship with actual women. But the problem with that is most men won’t make that connection.
Well said
Thank you
I like Jane’s comment. I’ve been wondering if men were as openly and casually lewd, especially when in “polite” company, before the advertising world took such liberties in exploiting female bodies. That, plus a tearing down of Judeo-Christian morals, creates a new world where sex all the time, all kinds of sex, is the new norm. And women are supposed to be put out objects all the time too. Was it like this at the turn of the twentieth century, or earlier? It doesn’t seen so, from the literature of that time.
Men were like this. There were just not as many avenues for visual stimulation in a pre internet society.
Similarly, women have always been interested in sex, but online dating apps have certainly made it easier for women to procure more of it than they did 100 years ago. I wouldn’t shame women for taking advantage of the endless number of men at their disposal. Nor do I blame them for constantly trying to trade up and find men who are taller, richer, cuter, funnier or more educated than they could when they lived in a small town and married their high school boyfriend in 1947. Does this hurt average men? You bet. A 5’9” man with a 110 IQ and a 50k job has a hard time getting your attention… but that’s the way thing are. Do you think we should restrict women from scrolling thru men and eliminating them because of superficial qualities? I don’t.
Reading this makes me sick. I’ve been cheated on, lied to, years of my life taken from me, all because “men naturally want variety”. It makes me want to get out of this new relationship and never try to love again
I am sick and tired of this same thing. All the men in my life have always looked at someone else and the men the same women were with would stare at me.. You know if this is all that is out there..I want to be alone. Men head issues get old already. Seriously. Who needs this. God gives us to someone and they need to be noticed and wowed to? LOL..ok but without me. 🙂
I can relate to you !!You are so right. I’m leaving my POS as soon as my son leaves in the next 4-6 weeks.
I’m so sorry for you, your post almost made me cry in its simplicity. Me too. So many, many years of being lied to about it all. It’s devastating.
Run, fast as you can in the opposite direction, if you have a man like this, all they cause is decades of pain. I have always suspected during my 41 years of marriage that I had a man like this, but recently he finally admitted that he thinks all women should be naked!!! WTF! Really! But that’s all he will admit. I asked him why. He says I dunno! It doesn’t do anything for me! OMG, IT DOESN’T DO ANYTHING FOR HIM!!! But he thinks all women should be naked. I say where is my damn time machine because if I can’t find it I just spent and wasted over 4 decades with a friggin 13 year old!!! So you young gals out there do not put up with it no matter what just run!!!
I just left my partner of 5 years for the same behaviour Laura. He couldn’t see an attractive woman on TV, walking down the street, in a bar etc. without commenting, leering & sometimes flirting right in front of me; it completely shattered my confidence and self esteem. If I meet another man just one hint of this kind of behaviour would see me run a mile. I would never put up with a man being so disrespectful to me ever again.
Good. If enough women start leaving men who act like pigs, they might start to shape up. Maybe this can included in the #MeToo movement, and get savvy men talking about the new hip thing: honoring women they are with (and those on the street too: I don’t like being stared at when the man is with another woman, just as when the one I am with stares at her.)
Let’s find this guys significant other, take her(oh wait, -maybe it’s a him) and go gawk at all the much larger penis sizes than he has. Oh yeah, and those 2 things that should danglw below- that he DOESN’T have.
This is a poor excuse- to be a miserable man. An excuse to let that small tiny penis to do his thinkibg because obviously his brain is down there.
It is pure bullshit.
Im sorry to hear that he says that to you! I loved her comment to. I have to say, if my husband said something about other women everytime it sounds disrespectful more then him just being a man. My boyfriend looks at other women, and I awknowlege after a long time that its who men are, and what they do. We both point out attractive people and can be honest with eachother, but hes never been disgusting about it. Its still hard to watch his eye wonder, jeeze women and men are made so differently, completly opposite!
And u still with him? Dump that c**nt now, but before that admire his best friends front pack and how u would love this to slide into you
Oh my goodness, Laura, you, under these circumstances, would be with the wrong man. I’m a retired psychotherapist. I have seen it over and over…..
You know what advice I might give a young woman now…? To go for the geeks/those that love their mothers…always, always KNOW a man’s background in dating and love…before dating him or if you’ve dated a bit and both of you are interested. Most people spend more time buying a television, car, house or..you get the picture….than they spend on choosing a life-long mate. It’s not such a mystery…patterns are predictors of future behavior. Know them. Don’t date the wrong guy, having done the research and found him to not be what you would want for the long term for YOURSELF…b/c we can fall in love with the wrong guy doing this. We’re all grown ups…know your material and WHAT YOU ABSOLUTELY want for yourself. Some women even ask God for His choice in a man for you. THEN THEY HAVE THE FAITH OF A MUSTARD SEED, AT LEAST, AND LET IT GO. If you’re not a Believer…just do the work and cover your own ass…it’s about the rest of your life, kiddo.
Kudos to u! Men need to learn self control!
My thoughts EXACTLY!
I agree with you Laura. That is disrespectful. In fact the thoughts are disrespectful as well. Only if men could be aware of thism
Thoughts are disrespectful? Good luck living life policing people’s minds.
As a woman i am constantly looking at handsome swedish boys and come to the realisation that looks are more important than a good man. Men are so ugly i just want to be around handsome scandinavian boys all the time. So its not only men, women drool at boys too. Plus who are all these ugly men to even look at pretty women? As if they would ever sleep with these ugly men.
very beautifully said, Claire ^^
Yes!
All the way up until he cheats on you. Too much smoke is hiding a fire.
My husband promised to stop many times, so I am divorcing him.
No Sorry. Not good enough. Other women other women’s bodies are not their business. Oogling women is a bad habit. Men have objectified women for their sexual fantasy. How about look at our mind heart and soul instead of our breast vagina and ass. It is disrespectful of not only the women they stare at for their disrespectful needs but the woman they are with. We do not walk on all fours anymore. They are not cavemen. To excuse bad behavior is just that an excuse for bad behavior.
Appreciating physical aesthetics and respecting someone is not mutually exclusive. You can appreciate someone’s looks, the entire sculpture art is dedicated to that. Yet you can still acknowledge that they have their needs and not disturb them. It’s very likely that you harbor various fantasies, as long as you don’t push them on anyone else against their will it’s okay.
Why are so many women invested in the idea that women aren’t visually stimulated? I love seeing attractive men with nice bodies. It doesn’t have anything to do with whatever man I might be with, nor would it make me cheat. And I think that if it turns on your partner before he comes to bed with you, or if you watch it together and get ideas all the better.
I’m really annoyed that we keep acting as though women are these overly emotional creatures whose delicate female eyes don’t respond to dirty, dirty porn (or at least romantic real sex) and nicely built/hung nake male bodies. I’m pretty pissed off that the new movie Magic Mike does not have male nudity. All of those perfect bodies and no one goes full monty. What is up with that? I actually got to a strip show where the men, who were really attractive and really well-endowed, took it all off, and I’d be the biggest lying liar from Lying-ham if I said that it didn’t turn me on. I think every woman in that room (ranging in age from 21 to elderly) was turned on by what their eyes saw. I’ve never gone to a strip show again b/c in most places, men can’t go full monty (and it’s a big load of crap and a waste of time).
We might be conditioned to say it’s bad, and that the women are exploited (even though female porn stars make more money than their male counterparts), but a lot of that is socialization. Women aren’t supposed to like looking at dirty pictures and dirty movies and they like to label everyone who does as being a pervert and a cheater.
I found this article and the fact that women and men have the same physiological response to these images is not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise to think that women will either deny it or insist that it is indicative of negative pathology.
I THINK (thanks to a male friend and a documentary that I saw) that that there IS more female produced porn that is more about the romance and the idea that women should be pleasured and less “wham/bam” than what turns a lot of women off.
But I’ll be the first to say…I’m a woman, I have eyes, and my eyes like seeing attractive men and no they will not fall out at the sight of an attractive man who is working hard to please a woman. TMI but the internet makes me okay admitting it, and I have other friends who totally agree.
There is stuff that turns men on, and stuff that turns women on, but I think a lot of it is more production value and story line and less that women dont’ have eyes and don’t like to see it. We just like to see it played out differently. But some men like that more romance oriented porn too.
Now clearly, there is stuff that is and should be illegal. But legal adults have legal, consensual sex that is filmed is not the problem, and it’s not a sign of some mental defect if you like seeing it sometimes (which isn’t the same as the people who can’t leave their computer and get fired from work b/c they can’t stop looking for even a few minutes).
@Nicole — you sound much like my wife, and these are some of the major reasons why our marriage is hotter now than it was 25 years ago when we started. She understands men in a way that’s unusual, and I think I understand women pretty well (for a man 🙂 This allows us to meet in a middle ground of understanding, and not judge or criticize each other for what we know to be our basic nature. We respect and trust each other, which means we admire but don’t stare obviously or make comments we know would be uncomfortable or hurtful to each other. This seems like basic stuff to us, but unfortunately there are many relationships where this is difficult or impossible. That’s the part that makes *me* sad (@Sophia)
Dbut what if your husbands basically always nice to your face..i always have been confident and trusted my husband been marroed 25 years.but just recently found out he was going to strip clubs for 10 yeats weely..which i thought was only a few times…found out..be it years ago..also got girls numbers ..and recently found text to guy friends you know talkimg smack about a girl he saw..i have to say also he is a fumctioning alcholoic and durning our whole marriage was always out drinking..now that i know how he really was. I think if hes going out looking to be sexually charged on a regular basis. Then as time goes on meeting women in bars he set him self up to be unfaithful. He swears he never was. But them agin his definition of unfaithful os different from mine and he knew how i felt..i was always disscusted..so he hid it and lied instead
I also really hate the wiew on woman about we are not visual. Like from the age of 10 I was spying on naked man and I love it. I love good looking naked hunks. I feel no any diffrent like man when comes to sex. And I do masturbate to naked man photos and porn general, but not addicted to it. The dick stick is very handsome to me and I have no any problem to be arosed by it.
Hi, I Do not agree with this last post one bit. I personally don’t like the male mind and find it insulting. I constantly feel not good enough when the person I am with looks at other women. I wish I looked like the woman he looks at. If I wasn’t pregnant I would Never be with another man EVER. Esp after my 12 year marriage to a womanizer where his innocent acts of looking at other women and porn lead to cheating. I always show respect and never even look at a man who may have nice facial features etc… who the F cares… their penises are all the same and their minds are all gross. I’ve worked in the bar industry for about 10 years and the things i’ve seen …. I think good on the girls/ strippers or even servers who work it because Men are stupid enough to give them their money hahaha No I have no respect for men because if you cant control your thoughts in your own personal space (your head) Im gonna work it to get that cash o la and I did. And all the strippers and bar maids I know would never be in a serious relationship cause we all know the truth… YUCK. I stick with my sistas.
@Caryn:
“Their penises are all the same and their minds are all gross”
“I have no respect for men because if you cant control your thoughts in your own personal space (your head) Im gonna work it to get that cash o la and I did””
“I stick with my sistas.”
On behalf of all men, thank you.
I do think that it’s unfair and quite a bunch of crock that men are like this and we women have to just be understanding of it because why? He’s a man… No
Just like the fact that men made the choice of choosing monogamous relationships over having multiple women throughout the years…because of the consequences of the latter and benefits of the former. The same way they can taper their wild “fantasies and thoughts” of other women every where they go. It’s just disgusting… We women have to put up with soooo much from men and society in this day and age it’s amazing. To know I am trying my best at my career and as being a mother and wife, it’s pathetic to know he’s out there having fantasies of other women in his head. What if we women had constant fantasies of other men in our head? We’d be considered whores and such. No one is saying the occasional glance is forbidden but c’mon now!
That’s a very unkind thing to say. Do you believe in inequality? She is rebelling about the fact that men seem to be able to do whatever they want, treat women like garbage and have an excuse. But women can’t? Nonsense.
Evan, it’s hard to blame someone for such derogatory words when they work in a strip club. Let’s face it, she’s seeing the worst of men in regards to women. It’s hard not to be cynical about them.
Re porn. I watched the TED Talk YOUR BRAIN ON PORN and found it extremely enlightening. This is my 3rd marriage and as far as I know, I’ve never been cheated on. But we both know that doesn’t mean it never happened.
I understand how men think, I’m accepting of it and the behaviors that accompany. I will say this, porn is never good in a relationship if it’s happening more than the actual sex. I’ve seen and heard of far too many marriages ending because of this. So, what is it that men obsess over? I find it hard to believe that a little shot of dopamine is the reward. And at what point does the porn watching turn into actual cheating? It reminds me of something I heard many years ago about threesomes… don’t bring another party into your relationship. Just because porn isn’t a person doesn’t mean you are honoring your relationship or being respectful towards your partner.
Our 10 year wedding anniversary is less than a month away. My husbands innocent acts of looking lead to addictive porn use and he has become the creepy guy who checks out EVERY woman, even while driving he has to look inside EVERY car to see if there is a female in it. Our marriage is on the line and I’m just saying this is not innocent. It leads to addiction from the “high” and they litterly f up their brain.. it is not reversible once they come to the addictive stage… sex attics, look it up.
Honestly, if most women knew the truth from the beginning, they might never ever get married. If you are the kind of woman that men claim that they want (sexually selective, clean, modest despite being gorgeous, devoted, hardworking, not into hypergamy, and take good care of your body), at best, you will eventually be “loved” (in an agape way and not an erotic way after infatuation wears off), as an incubator to make babies and a cash machine to pay half the bills. Whores are respected more than “Madonnas” any day of the week. In fact, the whores are placed on a pedestal. I always read on the internet about all the porn stars setting unrealistic standards of beauty and sex appeal, and wonder of they see the same thing that I caught my husband looking at. Most of them women look sickly and flappy. I don’t think he was looking for beauty, because he has that with me. I think he was looking for dirt and raunch. He lied to me and hid it from me for a few years. To hell with it. I agree that it isn’t enough to leave a husband over, especially when you have children, but it sure as f*ck does not make a man a good husband. It makes him less of a man, and scientific studies actually show it lowers testosterone and damages the brain. People need to spare the pissed off wives of all the naturalistic fallacies to justify this behavior. Also, it does not help to argue that “all men are doing this nowadays” (does that make it good, just because “everyone else is doing it?”), or the dreaded “it’s not about you!” -Well no sh!t it’s not about me, and that’s the f’ing problem. This is just a way to show that our exclusive erotic connection has been disposed of, because it’s “not about me.” It’s about all the dirty herpes infested sacks of venereal warts on the internet that moan really loud, because they don’t have small children in the next room that might hear.
Sister that was AWESOME!!
“dirty herpes infested sacks of venereal warts on the internet”. Why are u hating on these women, just because men like looking at them? They’re just doing their jobs, and not hurting anyone except those women who hate porn. I hate the cattiness that so many women have towards each other.
Ditto, what is particularly offensive is the notion that this behavior isn’t his fault. It’s HER fault for not being able to see through his B/S lies. Without placing at least part of the responsibility on men, they escape without guilt. Guilt and shame are barometers that signal when your behavior is WRONG. Without a conscience men are operating as socio/psychopaths- and here women are encouraged to believe that their behavior is ‘normal’. Good husbands are fathers are watching porn and oggling strippers and other women. Men aren’t wired for monogamy; missionary style is okay if he could have a different woman every night. That’s proof that porn is a lie. It’s about NUMBERS dude- screwing as many women as POSSIBLE. oh and my favorite, they’re designed to ‘spread their seed’.
Call it what it is- opportunistic lust and greed in a society that endorses this behavior because people would rather deal with a creep than be alone. Men are NOT designed this way, they’re socialized this way. Society and culture have evolved through the centuries but many people are left behind in depravity. People are having more sex than in history and divorce is at an all time high. Something’s not working! Take responsibility for how you treat other people and cultivate some self control.
@Pam – The divorce rate has been steadily declining for about thirty years.
Pam,
It’s obvious you don’t watch porn. And you don’t know how to handle men who do. So you should dump men who watch porn. They shouldn’t be with women who judge him on his porn-watching any more than you should be with a man who disrespects you by watching porn.
So that’s either going to leave you with no men to date or date only men who lie to you about their porn watching.
Have you ever watched any porn? Some are really hilariously unrealistic that would make you roll your eyes and think, “Really, do men really think women do that when they’re alone with their vibrators?”
One morning after watching some porn with my bf the night before, I had to mention it. “Honey, can I dissect what we watched last night just a little bit?” He gives me a wary, narrow-eyed look and says “Sure.” “You know that scene when the woman was blowing the dildo like it was the real thing? You do realize that women don’t do that, right? That was all for the camera. Women know it’s an inanimate object and don’t treat it like the real thing. You know that, right?” He replies, “How do you know what other women do?” I just rolled my eyes, shook my head and had a giggling fit. “And you know that scene when the woman in the middle was holding that giant double-ended dildo thing with the a woman at each end? That reminded me of bad special effects. It’s so bad and unreal. I mean women just don’t blow inanimate objects before or after using it. Seriously!” He just rolled his eyes and shook his head at me with a I-can’t-believe-she-just-said-that-to-me-smile.
I watch porn like other bad movies, you see the inconsistencies. You notice that the editing, dialogue, and the “acting” are just awful. Like a really bad, campy sci-fi movie with really bad special effects and totally implausible storylines.
You just can’t get mad or threatened by that stuff. Totally unrealistic. And if a guy finds a girl that would emulate the porn he watches? More power to him. But she’d be certifiably nuttier than a fruitcake. Normal women don’t do that stuff. And I think most men know that. So chill. Porn is not a threat to healthy and happy relationships. It shouldn’t even be a threat to unhappy sad ones.
Either that or my bf just likes really bad porn. lmao
@ Pam
“oh and my favorite, they’re designed to ‘spread their seed’…Call it what it is- opportunistic lust and greed in a society that endorses this behavior because people would rather deal with a creep than be alone. Men are NOT designed this way, they’re socialized this way.”
Incorrect. Men *are* designed this way and there are studies to prove it:
Jonason, P.K. et al. (2012). Avoiding entangling commitments: Tactics for implementing a short-term mating strategy. Personality and Individual Differences, 52, 606-610.
Gangestad, S.W., et al. (2000). The evolution of human mating: Trade-offs and strategic pluralism. Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 23, 573-644.
Lippa, R.A. (2009). Sex differences in sex drive, sociosexuality, and height across 53 nations: Testing evolutionary and social structural theories. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 38, 631-651.
Petersen, J.L., et al. (2010). A meta-analytic review of research on gender differences in sexuality, 1993-2007. Psychological Bulletin, 136, 21-38.
This is spot on, More women need to call this gutter behavior exactly what it is and stop making excuses for “males”. Real men control themselves.
Tom10, isn’t it funny though…
we aren’t hard wired to sit in cubicles in front of computer screens all day but we do it.
we aren’t hard wired to be so sedentary but 1 out of 3 Americans are obese.
we aren’t hard wired — men or women — to be monogamous for 30 or 40 years but many people manage to do it.
please stop defending men using biology as an excuse for selfish behavior.
Very well said! You go girl!!!
@ SQ
“please stop defending men using biology as an excuse for selfish behavior.”
But I wasn’t defending any behavior; I was simply refuting Pam’s point that men are socialized to want to ‘spread their seed’ rather than being designed that way, as the evidence — which I posted above – supports the latter.
Now, how any particular man chooses to behave — selfishly or unselfishly — is another matter. Indeed, the fact that so many millions of men manage to intentionally over-ride this instinct for the sake of their long-term partner actually testifies to the innate “goodness” of most men and their willingness to do their best for their woman, no?
OMG I LOVE YOU
PREACH
Hearing you loud and clear. I refer back to my comments about knowing who you’re with/dating, etc. BEFORE falling in love with a man that will never be the kind of hubby you want to spend your life with. Patterns are everything, Baby. Always research everything about a potential mate. You do when buying a car, home, rug, dining set….come on…women need to start respecting their wants and needs and be ahead of the GAME in settling for a lifelong mate….by knowing all she can first about what she wants and will and will-not settle for. Then use that schematic like a BOSS to weed out those with patterns that suggest that he won’t be able to deliver on her most desired traits in a husband/father. DO THE RESEARCH on potential men to let into your life. I also personally believe that men that love and honor their mothers in healthy ways make a big score on my board.
Remember this: The honeymoon period pulls us tighter together (or not). When that fades and each of us begin to see the irritating parts of the other seeping into our consciousness..love becomes a choice… every day. Keep cognizant of what you love and want to continue to honor in your mate…and if it’s just irritating issues you see in him/her…make the decision to choose love and letting go of the negative. Every day. After the oxycodone honeymoon…love is a CHOICE.
I totally agree. People always say that it’s important for spouses to respect/honor their husbands/wives feminine or manly essence and qualities even if you don’t quite understand or agree with them. Yet I can’t think of one women’s quality that allows her husband to feel insecure, hurt, or disguised by having lustful eyes/fantasizing for others outside of their marriage. I understand we were created differently but I wish this was the one thing that was the same between us. It just hurts so bad..
Well said! THE BEST reply on this entire thread!!!
Now THAT I agree with !!!!
Excellent!!!
One of the best comments yet!!!!!! Thank you so much for keeping it real.
Hallelujah! My thoughts presicely! Finally an honest woman. Woman are so hypocritical and men are actually too silly to realize they’re being played. Ever been to the Chippendales? And then listen to the conversations afterwards. Women are worse than men but it just suits them to make their husbands/boyfriends think they are wholier than the virgin Mary.
So true. I just don’t get it. I mean we look great take care of ourselves have men look at us too, and yet we don’t thrive on it. … Well maybe a little😗We just pretended not to notice, but they can’t help but take every jester a women gives as if its there first one they ever got.😳
Women do what they do at Chippendales or other such events as passive-aggressive payback for years of being made to feel like less of a woman by their husbands or boyfriends who have wandering eyes & fantasizing minds. I have only seen male strippers at 2 party events & both times there were women who yelled digs at their husbands or boyfriends such as, “Take that Joe (husband’s name), you asshole”. Just being there was sufficient to give me some passive-aggressive pleasure.
Agree! I have never been to one of those shows and really don’t care to, but I totally agree it is passive aggressive. Hurt runs deep in the female population.
“Just being there was sufficient to give me some passive-aggressive pleasure”
You were still there, were you not? Tell me, does cheating give you “some passive-aggressive pleasure” too? Incidentally, don’t you deride men for “passive-aggressive behavior”? What makes it right for you to engage in it, then?
“Hurt runs deep in the female population”
So does hate, apparently.
Dutchie, women that think so little of themselves to ever be seen in a place like Chippendales are low class women. Women with class and dignity wouldn’t be caught dead in a vile place like that. You must be hanging out with the wrong women.
Why don’t we all fuck around and get diseases!! Common girls ! Let’s do it like the men!!
Ummm, Did anybody ever think of a marriage as a sacrament, a holy thing dedicated to God, directing all thoughts including sexual ones to the Most High? Wouldn’t that be the greatest delight, totally overriding the need for lustful stimulation from either sex?
absolutly fantastic! You summed it up just as if I said those words myself. TY😊
Amen to that Nicole! 🙂
Very true. Women are not as innocent as many are just like the men as the article describes…but I wouldnt make my partner feel like I could not be trusted by disrepecting and causing unessesary stress by making them feel less: like they are not as good looking as physically attractive or actually say that you would want or have sex in some way with another.
I think Nicole is fooling herself. If she had any class or respect for herself, she wouldn’t be searching for male strip clubs that show the “full monty”. I am a professional, self-respecting woman and no woman that I know with any dignity behaves that way. I feel sorry for Nicole and her husband who is obviously not experiencing a mature, special and truly respectful relationship with his wife.
Ummm, Jane…one can remain perfectly self-respecting and be discreet in enjoying her sexual awakenings…it does not make her less a respectful human being. If a couple has differing libidos, for instance, which happens more than you might think…the one with the higher libido is responsible for meeting their extra sexual needs (meaning the overflow when their partner is not feeling it). That doesn’t mean porno or peep shows, really. In privacy, he/she can sexually satisfy oneself quite effectively ALL BY ONESELF.
This is so sad, it makes me not want to date anyone and be single forever…
I agree! Sometimes I think I would be much happier single and penniless than having to fret over every attractive woman he smiles at or flirts with! This article makes it seem men are incapable of being a respectable man with respect for his wife! I think it is sad that they cant control themselves because psychologically they have a penis and very little will power! It is very degrading to me when my husband and I are at a beauty salon and I am trying to make myself beautiful for him. Does he appreciate the hours it took me to do my make up? No, he barely comments. But he acknowledges any other attractive females makeup or jewelry assets. It is and should never be acceptable. I will definitely not be getting with another guy for long time if ever when I get divorced. My life will be so much more peaceful without this stress and I will be able to love myself at last! Good riddens to controlling, nasty men!!!
You totally missed the point of this article…good luck. As a man I am just shaking my head…
I don’t think she missed the point she’s just not interested in men if that’s what they’re all like. And I agree! Sex is just painful if I know you’re going to be fantasizing about some other woman the next day.
You can shake your primitive brain carrying head of yours all you want, obviously you are one of the average males on this planet…. And, with all due respect, you wouldn’t be able to understand how the average male behavior affects the more superior thinking beings as women apparently are, at least based on this article….
I am 60 yrs old and have been married for 30 yrs. I totally get the point of this article. My husband has been looking at other women & fantasizing about them for about 25 yrs. now. He is a wonderful husband & father. But you know what? It has always affected me & made me feel like less of a woman, even though I did my best to not let it bother me. I was never quite happy, though I really did my best to smile & make light of his attraction to other women. Now that I’m much older, the pain has become much worse. My husband is still looking at 20-30 yr olds, when I’m 60. C’mon, how much self esteem can a 60 yr old woman have when she compares herself to a 20 or even 30 yr old? You know what I say? Grow the fuck up men! Your wife who u have chosen for life, deserves for u to only have eyes for her. I think a grown up, loving man can make that sacrifice for the woman he claims to love. It is not love to perpetually hurt your wife & destroy her self esteem. And it is a rare woman who can deal with your wandering eye with a smile upon her face. I wish I either waited for a man who only had eyes for me, or never got married at all. I was a pretty hot chick in my day, & still my self esteem suffered to the point where I am today. Love means forsaking all others, not just in body but also in mind, heart & soul. Your wedding vows should have told u that.
A lot of women here get the point of the article but we just don’t want to be with those kind of men. We want to be with the rare kind of man that Evan described as only having eyes for his wife. Many of us were duped into thinking that we married that rare kind of man, only to find out years later that we were sadly mistaken. If you are the kind of man described in the article, let us know before you marry us. Don’t let us find out years later and be shocked because, we only had eyes for you, while you’re eyes are darting everywhere. In fact, when you say your wedding vows, you could change them to reflect the kind of man you are…Something like this: “I promise to love and honor you. I promise to forsake all other women, except the women of porn, and the women passing by on the street who give me a hard on. I promise to fantasize and jerk off to other women, no more than 5 times a week. I will be a good husband and father if you will be happy letting me do these things that I desperately NEED to do”. Sound good? Oh, hell yes!! Women would walk away at the altar if they heard the real truth behind your wedding vows!
Which head are you shaking
lmao
Women don’t get it… This has nothing to do with the women he loves.. Men look no matter what.. It’s Variety!!!! Doesn’t matter how hott there own chick is… I am one of the women who does get this.
this is exactly the article I needed. I am in tears right now. No matter how much weight I lose I will never be pretty and I will never be tall like the women he breaks his neck to look at. He does tell me he loves me everyday. He kisses me goodbye before he goes to work. He loves that I do all of the cooking in the cleaning. He says that before he met me he never thought he was a attractive.. I tell him you’re sexy and hot every single day. He never tells me this. I’ve been googling how to become anorexic. I’m 5’4 and weigh 158 pounds. I have crooked teeth. I forgot that I wasn’t attractive until it become in a relationship with this man. Just three weeks ago he put a very expensive diamond on my finger. A few of my female friends and family members are extremely jealous. But this is exactly the article I needed. If I looked at another man it would break his heart. Whenever I have happened to do the two second glance at another man, he notices, and he slumps over and gets depressed. But I only started doing this at the advice of some internet articles that said to do this and give him a taste of his own medicine. I sometimes even feel suicidal over his looking at other women. It would be one thing if he looked at women that look like me. He does not. I’ve even called them form and s**** to their faces for dressing like sluts. But I’m normally a very calm sweet loving female. Very devoted. Very domestic. I just can’t live with it. If I cannot carry out this anorexic thing, I’m sending my daughter to her father’s, we have lots of guns in this house. I know how to load them and I know how to shoot them. I would never hurt my family. I would never hurt him. & I promise I would never kill myself in our home. But I just can’t take it. It shatters my heart into a million pieces. And he knows this. He can look at women all the time whenever he’s not with me. But he doesn’t with me. I can’t take it anymore.
I meant he DOES it with me. Couldn’t spellcheck on this
Dawn,
You have to remember one thing Dawn — Just because YOU find him attractive doesn’t mean those women HE looks at finds HIM attractive.
He can look, but if they don’t look back, and he has no chance with them, what is there to be worried about?
Being confident will change him faster than being fearful and needy. He proposed to you. He’s going to marry you. You’re ruining a good thing by being insecure.
@Dawn: Aww things will be ok. Excess weight can be lost and crooked teeth can be fixed. U can be prettier.
How can u be suicidal over him looking at other women? I don’t know if u mean he gives them a 2nd glance or if he very obviously leers at them, but whatever it is, it’s not worth ur life. And don’t your daughter, ur family and your friends mean smthg to u too?
I think (sorry…) that the problem is more your insecurities, because if u were confident and a guy treated u a way u hated, u’d just walk away and be with someone else. I hope u get some counselling/therapy, and meanwhile try to improve the way u look if it helps u feel better. And I can’t imagine being with a guy if I didn’t feel beautiful in his eyes, so I couldn’t endure a rship like yours, but that’s just me. Anyway there’s always a better solution than suicide.
Dawn, no man is worth your life over. There are good men out there. I know I have been in relationships with very good looking men that never caused me this kind of pain. I think it is the insecure men that do this. They do not feel good about themselves so they try to prop themselves up on other women. They need to hold on to the boobs to keep from falling down that is how low their self-esteem is. I know this because I have an inexperienced, immature man that does this a lot. What will put these kind of men in their place is for you to hold yourself up high and think that you are all that and totally beautiful. Walk and talk and think of yourself as beautiful. And expect some backlash from him when you do it. I am an attractive women and I will flaunt it and it will piss my husband off and throw him totally off balance.
Thanks, Jeanie, for your comment. I am 38 years old and am engaged to a man that I love, but can’t fully trust. I have been with him for almost 5 years and my little girl calls him “daddy,” He used to stare at women all the time and used to actually WATCH a particular girl at work often. He would make obnoxious comments like “Wow, look at that!” And sometimes he would even make grunting sounds. He would pass up going with me somewhere to spend time together so he could stay home to watch porn. Pretty pathetic!!! I have been soooooo torn up over this. Now, he just tried to do it “under radar” so he doesn’t catch hell. And he will tell me he has changed and it’s all in my crazy head. But, sometimes, he tries so hard to hide it that he makes it obvious! No matter how hard I try, I’m not good enough and never will be. I don’t even recognize myself anymore. I have prayed so much for us and for him. Don’t know what to do-never been so confused or lost. New evidence has floored me and that’s why I find myself drinking and bawling in my dark dining room at 5 o’clock in the morning, texting a total stranger. We are supposed to get married in about 3 1/2 months. My kids need stability and after everything I have been through, I am exhausted. Just want a normal family life where I can trust the person I lay next to every night. Is that too much to ask?
No, it’s not.
Your comment isn’t about looking at other women, which is not. This is about trust. Dump your fiance before it’s too late. It’s not his fault he’s not trustworthy. It’s your fault for choosing him and letting it go this long.
It’s all about having a personal intimate relationship with God. If a man have an intimate relationship with God whether married or not or in a relationship, he WOULD NOT steer at other women. God can keep you from falling into temptation.
To the man who responded and wrote this article. You DISGUST me encouraging other men to look upon women based on some man made theory to please the huge ego and cheating mind of the male as if we women are steel and don’t have sexual desire and fantasy about men too! IT ALL ABOUT HAVING AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, and showing respect t your woman/wife. It’s all about putting your partner feelings first!
Dawn,
Sometimes we can all get into a situation that rips open every wound from every insecurity and self-doubt we’ve ever had. The pain and darkness that come with that can feel overwhelming; it can make us forget the joys we do have in life. It can make us want to try extreme, even dangerous solutions. or even believe that our life is no longer worth living. Still, no situation is hopeless, so long as we have a breath left in us. Among a small and rather exclusive fraternity of men I happen to belong to, we have a saying, especially when the odds are long, the task seems impossible, and nothing is going according to plan: “Do what you can, right now, where you are, with what you’ve got!” I want you to take those words, hang onto them, AND ACT ON THEM. If you will do that, it may not make everything perfect, but it will bring some sunlight back into your life again.
You’re sad, and discouraged. You don’t look like you wish you did. However, You do have a boyfriend/’fiance, who at least says he loves you. You have a daughter, who I’m sure loves you very much, and you have a family; I’m sure they love you very much too.That’s where you are, and what you’ve got, right now. However it feels, that’s more than a lot of people have, or ever will have, and if you need reasons to go on living, well. those are some pretty good ones, Now let’s talk about doing what you CAN DO, because that’s the really important part.
You’ve mentioned several positives about yourself; “calm, sweet, loving, devoted…” and those are all good things. Love those parts of you; it’s almost certain others will..and do. “I’ll never be pretty! I hear you say. Well, you may or may not ever be on the cover of Vogue,and you can’t be a tall supermodel, but I’ll bet you can be prettier. Crooked teeth can be fixed, or at least improved to the point that only you will ever really notice. As for losing weight, there are far better and safer ways than trying to wish an eating disorder on yourself! Anorexia is no joke; it can and will literally kill you! It’s not the only way. If you think you have a weight and beauty problem, let me tell you a true story. My girlfriend used to be from childhood on, (her words) “The little fat girl nobody wanted”, and it kept getting worse. She was in an abusive marriage when she had a child at 39, and the weight got so extreme, it was literally killing her. She had to lose weight, before her body could even withstand weight loss surgery. She went though all that, with almost no emotional support, during the end of her marriage and a bitter divorce. She refused to give up. Today, years later, she weighs lees than half what she did, back then. She’s short, 5’2″, and definitely curvy, but you’d never know she had a severe weight problem. She’s not typical, she’s in fact a walking miracle; but who’s to say you can’t have a miracle of your own? I don’t know whether you can make your man love you, but you can make yourself into someone you can love, and be proud of, instead of hating yourself, for what you’re not. Do what you can, right now, where you are, with what you’ve got. Do it for yourself, not anyone else. Make it a constant unwavering commitment to you, from you. If you will do that, every day, then I promise you, you cannot lose, and you just might surprise yourself!
Jeanie, you are 100% correct, that’s NOT love. Don’t ever forget it. 🙂
Honey you need help. If you don’t feel good being with him, which is the point of having a partner, because they make you feel good, then get rid of him… Killing yourself is never the right choice, nor is becoming anorexic.. Work on yourself to make yourself feel good.. Get in shape, get braces, fix the things you can but only for yourself, not for anyone else. These are things we must pass on to our daughters as well…
Dawn, empower yourself. You need to break up with him and start seeing a psychologist regularly. At the same time get braces and go to the gym and eat healthy.
I totally agree with you Lisa. 100 %. Its so hurtful.
Lisa,
I totally agree with you. I got married to a man I knew from high school and had not seen for over 30 years. We lived together for a one year and he totally adored me. I never got the feeling he was looking at other women back then. But now he is different after looking a playboy for years and then porn on the internet while single. We have been together three years and the first year he looked a nude girls 5 times a day. He looked when I was asleep, when I went to the store, when I was cooking his food. I finally let him have it and I told him a wanted a divorce. He begged me not to leave him. He stopped viewing naked girls but I catch him looking in cars and looking at women almost every time we go out. It is a feeling you get as a women. The problem is I cannot prove it. If I get the fortunate opportunity to prove it, he can kiss his ass goodbye. I was single and did not date for 15 years. Those 15 years were the happiest years of my life and I want that happiness back. The real truth is this…..men have been told many lies about their sexuality by profiteers like hefner and flint. And like the man that wrote the bullshit above…about spreading their seeds. Lies…lies…lies. Men that believe all of that do not own their own sexuality…flint and hefner own it!!!!
i agree with you, men are told lies. this article is designed to make a man continue to wank over other women. I found the most beautiful women with her bum stuck up in the air, deliberately designed to turn my man on, well I will be turning him on by showing him the picture then smacking him over the head with it. There has hardly been any touching or intimacy between us and he refuses to discuss it. He try’s to convince me that nothing’s wroNg. Honestly I felt like leaving today over the sexy website I found. we have been together for 24 years and now I am 48. If what men are doing is so right then why do we all feel the same, like this. Insecure, unhappy and especially wanting to change ourselves to look better which is pretty impossible when your aging.
Kim,
Why do you think your husband begged you to not to leave?
If not you, couldn’t he be able to find at least another average looking girl.. he could however value your relationship than his temporary sexual thoughts.
First of all why do you compare yourself with other beautiful women around… he is just staring not going with them right?
And how do you think you are the most beautiful person in this world, to the eyes of your husband also… any average man likes average looking girl with good heart to commit as a living partner, beauty is never ending story, and no body is perfect.
So holistically you are always beautiful to your husband.
Don’t you appreciate the handsomeness of some actor on the screen so does it mean your husband is worst and of no use?
I hope most Men do know the difference between fantasy and reality…
And I don’t get the clues yet why do woman value and felt degraded by thinking about men’s fantasy…
So if he is not designed such a way why he is behaving in that way? do you think that the only reason is that he is not putting efforts to control himself?
I didn’t mean you should allow him to stare or give the freedom to do everything he likes like watching nude girls… you should always control him like a thread to a kite knowing the fact of the natural instinct…and being a constructive criticizer of his out of control thing.
Men are Men, however they do have hearts and love on their wife and kids..
God why did you make these complicated sexual desires and killing the brains of Men and Women? of course in different ways. 🙂
I agree, there is no point, nobody likes to feel disrespected. When I am talking to a guy I barely notice other men, I just don’t see the point of staring at other men like an idiot. If I’m interested in you (the guy) this just naturally happens.
I told a “good” guy I’m talking to this and said he doesn’t see anything wrong with women looking yet claims men easily get their egos bruised by us.
So stupid!!!
Same here Sophia, same here 🙁
Exactly,
Sophia and Lisa, that is precisely how I see many women feeling this day and time. It is very hurtful, and truly I have no interest in another man but my husband it doesn’t even turn me on. I have had friends ask me to see the male strippers I was not interested. I have had friends want to go and pose and get pics of male nude models again I had no interest. I completely turned it all down. Then I find porn mags and pono’s under my bed not but about six weeks later. I am lost and disappointed. All this time I thought I was being respectful in not doing things like that with my girlfriends only to find out it has been done to me numerous times behind my back at that.
Same here ! I feel I have to be alone if i don t tolerate this . It is to fight a losing battle . I would like to be able not to fall in love and not believe in love . But what a life without it . The only way for me would be to have a succesfull a carrier as a life. This is crazy , men would not tolerate half of this, if it was the case for women but because it is men it is tolerated . What a life ! This is sad and this the truth and i always knew it. Many women knows but some pretends it is okay with them .
Maybe the way we perceive this horrible challenge between love and men relations to sex and other women is the way they see commitment .Eg : “I wish i would be able to have it all ” sadly all is socially not acceptable , it is mote convenient to get married . “They are maybe as forced to monogomy than as we are by accepting their ‘ sexual arrousal” for everthing
Key: women can only be half happy constantly because their expectation will never be fully met with men
well, let me tell you one thing for sure.. here where the religion comes in.. if you ppl ever researched on “islam” this is the ONLY religion which tell the men to lower their gaze… to be respectful to other women.. to love and respect your wife.. there is a big punishment for the people who watch such things and are unfaithful to their spouse.. so i think it’s better to be a religious person.. rater than being a shamuck and staring and fantazing about every other woman…
No, not so much. There’s is a whole list of Biblical Scripture that addresses this. But the majority of Evan’s readers are neither Christian or Muslim, and are not likely to use either holy book as the basis for a code of conduct.
Funny how the Islamic leaders think that the existence of women is unnatural and we should be forced to stop existing as soon as possible.
also, it’s illegal for woman to decide to breathe. It is up to her husband whether she’s allowed to breathe or not.
Are you kidding!? Mohammad married a 6 yr. old and raped her when she was 9. He and his men went from village to village murdering all of the males and took the women as their wives and concubines. He told his men they could have 5 wives In addition to concubines. All he cared about was sex. Read your history.
and to be specific there is an equal punishment for men for cheating on their wives and fantasizing about other women, and watching pron… so don’t feel so low.. just search for the truth… i hope the moderator lets these comments to be posted
And in Islam, men are also allowed to marry 4 wives.
And I think they can divorce a wife simply by saying, “I divorce you” four times?
Tom10 in another thread surmised that much of the tension in middle-eastern countries that breed terrorists. Because those men follow Islam and have no place to put their sexual energy and therefore, put that energy into extremist thinking (if I die a martyr, I’ll have access to 100 virgins in heaven (or whatever Islam heaven is)). It’s unnatural to subvert one’s healthy sexuality. Take Catholic priests scandals, for example. Need I say more?
In another thread, someone else mentioned that many middle-eastern men are into “anal” sex. And this is because they’re not allowed to have sex with women. So the loophole is that they have sex with other men.
Be careful what you wish for.
God has a sense of humor.
Yes, and in Islam, a man can have sex with as many women as he wants even while married, so porn is really a non-issue. It is not uncommon for men to have one wife and then to marry another additional wife for as little as one day and then divorce her. Then they repeat the process over and over. That way they are able to have sex with other women and not break the laws of their religion.
Gabe I agree with. I mean if a woman can not even deal with acknowledging that a man finds other women attractive, will look and fantasize on occasion about other woman, then you have personal issues and insecurities. This is not something we control, it is an impulse that we are born with. If someone shouts don’t look up……. your instinct is to look up, this is similar to why men look at other women. If he vocally acknowledges every attractive woman to you, then tell him to stop and keep it to himself. If he doesn’t acquiesce, then he doesn’t respect or care for you and it’s time to move on. Ela, we are all primitives, including you, but men are capable of controlling those instincts as good men do. While we might still think about other woman, men that love their partners, know what they have lose and act accordingly. Most of the women complainers on here, need to stop complaining or blogging about it and actually tell their man about these problems. We can’t read minds you know. But if you’re one of the crazies that can not even deal with a guy looking at other woman or accept the fact that there are other beautiful woman out there, then look inward because the problem lies with you.
Hopefully, you can deal with your woman looking at other men as well. Women are sexual beings, too, and men can do it, but hate it when it is done to them. Keep your post in mind when you see your wife gawking at Tom Hardy (I know I would).
Nick, I have to call bullshit on you last comment. It does not make you a “crazy” to be upset at your husband looking at other women. In my opinion there are 3 types of PEOPLE (not just men!): those who don’t look at others, those who look but would never stray and those who are compulsive flirts that would, and sometimes do, stray. I have seen men who are totally in love with their wives and watched when an attractive woman walks by and the man glances up but then looks away. To him those women are IRRELEVANT. The problems arise when there is incompatibility of the 3 types in couples. I have a husband that looks, has ignored me while staring at other women and it is hurtful, disrespectful and, if the other woman notices, it is humiliating. I am type one. I chose my man and he is all I need. Any other man means nothing to me. It is difficult that my husband isn’t the same type as me but I have talked to him about it and it was very upsetting to him to hear that he was hurting me. He is now making the effort to be more attentive when we are out together. It pisses me off that guys get to say things like “That’s just the way we are” without considering that women needing to feel secure in a relationship is “just the way we are!” We all need to recognize the male/female differences, not demonize our partners for their biological wiring and above all we need to COMMUNICATE with the people we love. Try not to make the guy feel bad for what he is doing, just point out what it is like from your perspective and if he loves you he will be sad and will try to change. If not, then be glad you found out he doesn’t really care about you and have the balls to leave.
Very, very well put.
Well i undertsand now. But still is not ok to hurt our love ones.
Im the type of person who loves their partner and respects them in every way. And would never look or stare at other men when im in a relationship. On other hand my partner loves me but doesn’t respect me. He is the type of person who can’t help but look and starr at other women.
So i have talked to him few times now about this topic but he keeps on denying evey time i tell him how i feel he always say no i wasn’t looking at her or making other excuse.
All i wanted to hear was the truth from him. Tell me he us sorry and that he won’t do it again.
I just dont get it i don’t do that do him so he shouldn’t do that to me.
So well put. My husband calls it responding to attractiveness. I wonder when he will notice that I dont go out in public on my own anymore with him. When will he notice that I am withdrawing from him sexually. At least he will still have his response to responding to attractiveness and a broken marriage and family. Looks like his kicks came first.
Micky excellent post. Noticing other women is unnecessary, vulgar and disrespectful. This is a behaviour which can be changed and if your partner loves you he should stop this and grey people out while on the streets. Period.
As long as my man checks out other women and watches porn, I feel no guilt having secret time with other men.
Agreed 100%
Ok so you are justifying your cheating (being actually intimate, having sex, what ever it is) because he fantasises about other women or looks at naked women screen…
If I’m pretty and satisfy him every way why look? This just breaks my heart like I will never be good enough and so you know what watch all the porn you want and masturbate 100 times a day and look and every ass that passes in front of you. So sad men like that will end up alone… Why lose a for sure women that loves you for someone you don’t know???? It’s just I want to be loved and adored like I love and adore you!!!! End of story… I am not asking for something from my partner that I am not giving my self!
But men and women want different things from a relationship to be happy.
It’s not sex that keeps a man in the relationship with you, it’s how good you make him feel as a person.
Women want conversation and treated as a priority by their men.
Men want appreciation, lack of drama, and easygoing-ness from their women.
Give him what he wants from you, not what you want to get from him. If you don’t know what he wants, ask him. Most men are pretty good at communicating what they want. Just make sure you can handle the truth before asking him.
This is b.s.! It has to do with respect. The fact that no matter how average or gorgeous a woman is to you, we spent a lot of money, time and energy just to look good, usually women do it for the men they are with.
It is the fact that men like you are never satisfied with what you have. This is the most selfish behavior ever!
How would you like it if a woman told you about men who makes 7 figures. I mean constantly… Or men with large penises? Think of the most hurtful thing said to you and how it made you feel!
He’d dump you.
So do the same to a guy.
If he treats you with disrespect, then dump him.
Where’s the problem?
I get that men are interested in variety and as I’ve been told “like to look at boobs!” However, the lines of fidelity are so blurry now. I feel there are so many ways to cheat a spouse and it doesn’t just have to be having sex with another person. That’s a pretty low bar. What about these camgirl sites? The ones where men *innocently* view women for free to a point, but then see an opportunity to pay her to do certain things or chat with her and end up subscribing and “collecting” women they follow in their profiles. This is like attending a strop club at will and engaging in – or potentially engaging in – conversation with the stripper before and after. Is that being faithful? Even if it’s only online while your wife deals with pesky tasks like cleaning your underwear and putting your children to bed? Just men being men right?
@Dzz
Even if it’s only online while your wife deals with pesky tasks like cleaning your underwear and putting your children to bed? Just men being men right?
If a woman’s husband is visiting cam girls, then competition from cam girls is the least of her worries because her marriage is on a respirator. That is a classic example of a man looking for a way to survive in his marriage without resorting to outright cheating. He is biding his time until his children are old enough to leave. Show me a man who is visiting cam girls, and nine times out of ten, I will show you a woman who has made the primary relationship in the house between her and her child or children. That is a reason why men cheat. The women in their lives are no longer the women they married. Science has demonstrated that the key to monogamy is on ongoing dose of oxytocin, which means having regular intimate contact.
https://www.uni-bonn.de/Press-releases/oxytocin-leads-to-monogamy
@Yet Another Man
This is amazing to me. Someone has to clean the underwear and put the kids to bed. When it isn’t done you know what happens? Said Husband asks “Do I have any clean white T-Shirts?” and “Gee, it’s getting really late, you kids should be getting to bed.” And if they’re under 8, they sure aren’t putting themselves there. And neither is he. Someone has to do it and it never seems to fall to the man. But sure, lay the blame at the feet of the woman.
When you marry a woman and make her a mother, then yes, she has changed and she’s going to have to devote some of her time to those children. Same hours in the day, now divided between you and your progeny because guess what – the wife hasn’t multiplied, she’s still only one human being! No, she won’t be the woman you married because you actively participated in making her into something else – a person who should be valued even more – the mother of your children. Ugh. This cavalier “me, me, me” attitude really pisses me off about men.
Ugh…I know. Sad reality
men are complete cunts its what they do. let them get on with it. i after 3 years of dating. have learned to HATE men. and all they do so i guess im gonna turn lesbian. atleast if i date a woman i wont need to worry about her looking at the next best thing. if you want that. go and get that. why are you even with me? dont get men never will. i have comfidence issues which doesnt help me but i just dont understand men if i can love the one man for the rest of my life then why cant he do the same why does he need to have everything… why cant he just love me and only me. why bother with marrige if your going to cheat or love someone els. FUCK OFF
K,
Don’t hate men! It was a man who gave you life, your Daddy. Remember him? Besides, not every single man is a cheating douchebag. Many are. Not every woman is loyal. Who are those men cheating with?? The way I see it, the problem is less the man than the predatory b*** who will sleep with your man because they have low self-esteem and envy you for what you have. So keep an eye on his co-worker the waitress the friends of friends, LOL. I’m only half kidding. I strongly believe in the sisterhood and that it should be strong. I would not hesitate to expose a b*** who tries to take a man that is already taken. Men don’t screw around if no one will screw around with them.
I also want to say, don’t invest your self-esteem in a man, ever. Nobody deserves that kind of power over you. Men are always going to have that fantasy of a different body to bang in rotation every night. That’s just their little friend talking. Most women are always going to want Prince Charming exclusively all to herself telling her she’s a gorgeous princess every single day. Both of these things are unrealistic, fantasies. We’re dealing with men and women who are flawed human beings. I told my husband if he’s tired of me do me the courtesy of letting me know and I taught him never to disrespect me in public by gawking openly at other women. Whatever sex fantasies either of us have we keep to our damn selves.
It’s about establishing and reestablishing and negotiating boundaries to fit your relationship. If you’re with a man who decides to cheat, leave his a** and find someone else who will treat you with respect. But don’t put the blame on yourself. He did it because he is a douchebag and that’s what he wanted to do. That’s him. It’s not the whole of male kind. What happens when you meet a sweet guy, why would you punish him with the mistakes of the idiot that came before?
Take your happiness where you find it, and enjoy it for as long as you can. Nobody is perfect! Nothing lasts forever! The only truly unconditional forever lasting love in the world is the love you have for yourself. If my husband leaves me tomorrow, I will still have me! I will go on, just like I went on when I left my ex, that bastard. F** that guy. I will find someone new. There’s more than enough love in the world. OK. Off my soap box.
Thank you. I wish I could put you in my pocket for pep talks when I need them.
I agree. It is so hurtful when men stare at other women, I can’t be bothered with them any more. I would rather be on my own, and so are most of my female friends. I just wish I was a lesbian, but sadly I am not. I am happy celibate.
It must be pretty convinient to be a woman. I hear alot of women say that they are going to turn lesbian because they are upset with men. But I don’t hear it to often from a guy. : I am so fed up with women, I am just going to start to suck cock.
Oh, sorry to double post but I should mention that at that show, a table of older women rushed the stage, tackled one of the dancers, and scared the hell out of him. The bouncers had to pull them off (he was insanely good looking) and he was clearly shaken. I’m sorry he was traumatized but it was kind of hilarious (and I apologize for that b/c no one would be able to laugh if that was done to a female stripper). They took him DOWN to the floor.
Yeah, but let’s keep believing that women are so offended and repulsed by male nudity outside of their own bedrooms.
I would love to see more male nudity outside of my bedroom. ; )
I think the main reasons I used to get upset when I saw my man ogling attractive women is because 1) It’s was okay for him to look, but I couldn’t; 2) They would often cheat with these other women, but THAT was okay because they’re “genetically programmed” to; and 3) I liked to think I was special to him; special enough that he wouldn’t want to hurt my feelings by so blatantly staring at a beautiful woman in such a way that the words, “Damn, I sure wish I had her instead of you” could be heard by everyone in the room, even though he hadn’t actually uttered them aloud. I’m 43 and I’ve dated probably 30 men in my lifetime who have done one or all of these things, and I realize now that this is simply how they are, so guess what? My turn! I have zero qualms about flirting in front of my dates or cheating on boyfriends. I feel bad for any man who might actually want a monogomous, loving, nurturing, supportive partner as I did all those years, but you have no right to complain when a woman cheats. MEN are the ones who have made us this way. Do unto others, boys. Do unto others….
@Elaine – You’re still missing it.
I didn’t say it’s okay for him, but not for you.
I didn’t say it’s okay to cheat based on genetic programming.
I didn’t say it’s okay for a man to blatantly ogle to the point that it’s embarrassing.
That’s what YOU experienced.
My point is that you can have a “monogamous, loving, nurturing, supportive partner” who still appreciates other women’s beauty.
I know this because I am that partner to my wife.
And I can assure you that the answer to cheating men is not to become a cheating woman. Learn to accept good men; don’t become just like the bad ones.
As a woman, the only uplifting part on your article was the mentioning of a few good men. I have just lost the one I had, because he actually wasn’t. Even if these good men are an exception and few in numbers, being fully satisfied at having their eyes on their women only, they make it worthy for women like myself to look for and hope for a dream to become reality. I can only feel fulfilled and thrive in all aspects, especially sexually, in a monogamous relationship, where there is love and dedication in mind, body and soul from both sides. And if I never find that man, I’d rather live with the dream. And based on the responses to your article, I am not the only woman to feel this way.
I’m fully with you! Looking at other people is a banality, vulgarity and lack of respect for us wives. Lucky those women who have those guys who have eyes for their wife only. My friend has such a hubby. Lucky her.
So if you have a loving, nurturing, supportive partner that loves you. Why does he have to look at other women? Isn’t the woman he “loves” worth all his time and attention. If a guy has to look at other women then I think they aren’t happy with the one they have and they shouldn’t be in a relationship.
EXACTLY! Its that simple. No excuses, no B/S, no lies. And the reason why these guys are not single and have a girlfriend or wife is because they want the easy access to a piece of a** anytime they want it! The convenience of it: no wining, no dining, no chasing, and they get their dishes done at the same time and their laundry!
That is why…if they could get a piece of ass anytime they wanted to, they wouldn’t be married or have a girlfriend. So all of you who have boyfriends and husbands who ogle over other women and watch porn, are being used. That’s the reality of it. Guys can dress it up anyway they want, it is still the same thing, you’re being used.
Dear Evan, I think you are missing the point. Perhaps women want a bit more then a ‘nuturing father and a ‘good’ husband’ They want a polite one aswell. Or perhaps your definition of a good man is different of what most women think is a good bloke. And if a wonan turns around and starts acting the same way? So what? If that makes her feel better.
Even if a female looks like Marylyn Monroe , she still runs the risk of being cheated on ..so, that’s what they mean by its not “you”( meaning ur looks)eventually all relationships hit a high platue and then its up to the couple on how they make it work.. men get a high from looking at good looking person,just like women get a high when a handsome guy looks at her. Although it hurts if your not single it goes both ways only that some females blame it on them selves because its acceptable for men to have random thoughts and not women😕. I didnt date much when i was young and im glad because i know what i feel when i focus on me.I know that if my marriage doesn’t work out I’m not blaming my self -esteem but his unwillingness to settle down on things that should have been ready to leave as soon as he wanted comitmnent. Nevertheless, I’ll be fine single as well ..as long as I don’t run out of batteries.. Ha ha P.S. my grandma always told me.. “The way you look I looked and the way I look you will look” so don’t feel bad 🙂
Hi Evan, that is the first hopeful comment I have read on the feed. Thank you for sharing it. I can accept that, but if the gawking leads to flirting and attentiveness when I am present, how does a wife remain trusting about her husband’s intentions when we are not together? In other words, how do you know he is one of the good ones?
I think, Evan, that she…like a good many of the women on here who object to men “looking” are probably referring more to “leering” than looking. And there is a vast difference. A man who “leers”: is very obvious to onlookers; is often obvious to the person they are leering at; is oblivious to everyone else around them including their date…except to perhaps make objectifying comments about the woman they are leering at; and in other ways consistently treats the woman they are with as ‘less than’ the woman they are leer at, if not while leering, then at some other time in the relationship. This is far different from acknowledging that a member of the opposite sex is attractive or worth a second or third glance. One who appreciate the beauty of another woman simply does that…appreciates. They do not ignore their date for minutes at a time while gazing at the other woman; if they verbally acknowledge the beauty of the other woman, they –at other given moments of time –have acknowledged the beauty of the woman they are with; and they a not overtly obvious to the rest of the people in the vicinity. If the woman they are looking at happens to notice, the RESPECTFUL man does not catch and hold her gaze, giving her reason to believe he is thinking of possibilities with her.
At least, that is what i am taking from the majority of these posts.
Mr Evan you make me laugh. This article only shows one side of the coin. There are men who DON’T find any other woman good looking, etc other than their wife. When they walk the streets they simply don’t notice other females because they have eyes only for their wife. Only she is worth noticing.
Noticing other female bodies is just vulgar, banal, primitive, low class and disrespectful. This comes from a male friend btw.
To all women out there who are hurt by this: never accept this vulgarity from your partners!!!!! It is NOT okay for your partner to hurt your feelings. He should acknowledge this-understand what a stupidity he let himself into and change this behaviour. Looking at other people IS A CHOICE, a behaviour that can be conditioned and neutralized!!
@Evan,
I am aware of all the familiar emotional challenges women go through with this issue. One thing that bothers me extremely is the ONE and ONLY FACT that erotica starts evaporating. Women in general, any size and shape are extremely sexual! They can create overwhelming pleasurable sex during intimacy when the man is fully engaged. All the looking, checking out, porn watching, movies and music videos that are not really anything but rubbish mostly and blah blah blahssss diverts a man’s sexual energy to an unattractive direction. The passion in the relationship starts fading. The highly erotic woman becomes the housewife who becomes like the playboy magazine on the bedside table. You flip through her every now and then..why? .. cos you can, cos she will take you like a hungry wolfie, cos you have your own issues that leads you to fuck with a woman’s astounding sexual power!
So yes, women needs to start having short term relationships. For me, that could simply mean just going out with very interesting men. Let them flirt with me, tease me and keep me tapped in, tuned in and turned on. I would like to see different penises and get a taste of them. Enjoy the male body like a sniffing animal and allow the man to pleasure ME. This ME is every beautiful sexually awesomely powerful women who can come more than one time if her guy can get his ding dong up after he comes and groans like a pathetixclooser. Yuck!
Women are highly sexual. We need to explore so much. Being trapped in a long term relationship with “Poor baby men” provided me nothing but years lost of experience, loss of my own sexual adventures that i so wanted to create with my partners. And all my beautiful ladies no matter how old you are!!…… we all know one thing for sure.. and that is… We are hot af any given day any given hour. We own it. So own it and leave if you are stuck. Explore and get touched my men. Many men. Not just sexually (that is just a very personal choice) but with flirting, kissing, having a weird night out, making out in the cinema… just go for it. Forget the label girlfriend, it is nothing but a sham! Girls JUST DO wanna have fun! And partners, boyfriends are o not gonna bring that out in you!
But do you gawk at the women you see on porn sites, at strip clubs and on the street? You told us where you look, but not what kind of looking it is. THAT is the point for a lot of the women responding here with hurt feelings. It’s one thing to notice attractive people on the street, but to go out of your way to see them at clubs or porn site, well, you say there is nothing wrong with it because it’s you, and you, are fine. You are the male authority so we must look up to you. But I wonder.
I wonder if you can’t distinguish between normal looking and lecherous behavior. I certainly can – and that is the subject of this post.
@elaine I agree Elaine! If they want to cheat and lust with there eyes but act like us women who do that makes us women slutts and men are high fived as players or mackers I think is just wrong and sexist! True, us women do have hormones and eyes, too! But another thing we have had for far too long is respect to not make them uncomfortable. I find it so wrong that my husband will find it perfectly ok for him to stare and I mean a long stare or flirt right in front of me in public and then look at me because he knows it makes me uncomfortable but be offended if I decide to say forget it and check out cute guys online. He will literally grab the cell out of my hands. So when women are jealous, it is because we are insecure and men are basically controlled by whats in there pants? Are we really that weak minded? We need to say no, we deserve the same respect they do. At one point, women had no rights. In some ways, men are still supremecy in the mind. When us women want some rights given men at birthright, we are called feminists and it still has a bad connotation to it! We do a lot for this world including bringing life into this world and honestly we deserve the right to be his one and only if he wants us to have eyes only for him
Here we go again with the 1950’s logic again. No, no, no….no we men are not high-fived for acting crudely in front of our woman. I too used to ogle good looking women but i did learn to stop doing it. Why? Because EVERYBODY let me know it wasn’t cool. Men are also not treated like studs for sleeping with other women when we are married. OK, well let me alter that, and I will first let you know that this came from one of my best friends in the Navy who was black, and then backed up by other black men I befriended in the Navy. Yes, many black men do have that attitude. They once tried calling me a punk because I did not go have sex with a woman who publicly propositioned me at a party. Sorry, I wasn’t interested. BTW, to them, PUNK means you are gay. You don’t like having sex with women. Even Magic Johnson stated in an interview that if a woman wanted to have sex with you, you had to have sex with her. This was repeated to me by many black men I knew in the Navy. I can write a whole article on that subject, but I can tell you that this is not copied by white men as a group, or any other race as a group. My friend told me that it stems from the days of slavery when a black man had nothing that made him feel like a man other than his sexual prowess. He didn’t own anything. Didn’t earn a living. Couldn’t come and go as he pleased. He said that this attitude about sex has been passed down from father to son. Is this all true? I don’t know…I only know what he told me, and I know what I saw in twenty years in the Navy.
I can only tell you that most men and women don’t support men cheating or acting crudely in front of their wives. This is not the 1950s. But then, this whole thing is really more of a Hollywood driven myth. My dad can tell you that it wasn’t supported. Now here’s the rub. If a man had a friend who was a male whore, while he disapproved, it might not make him no longer be friends. See, why would I care that much about what another man does? I am not going to sleep with him. But it would sure be nice if half my friends had not already slept with my wife. For the most part, men keep their noses out of other men’s business. But here’s how you know it wasn’t really approved of. Men used to beat up even their best friend if he seduced his sister. In short, now it was personal. It’s like, “Do your thing with those other women, it’s not my business…but screw my sister and now it is, and now you will see that I don’t approve.”
In this day and age, however, nobody really cares. It’s expected that anyone you start dating has likely had a healthy sex life. Nobody makes an issue of it.
I totally agree with you Lisa. If my husband saw me ogling and lusting after every good looking man I saw, he would be crushed and would shrivel up. I am tired of men and too many women making excuses for this disrespectful and hurtful behavior.
You need to finish your statement: Do onto others as “you would have others do ONTO YOU!
That was her point, Jeff. “Do unto others…as others HAVE done unto her.”
Elaine, I am totally with on this one. I am not going out to look for a man but if one happens to show up and I am really attracted to him then I will have him and not feel an ounce of guilt for doing so. I can have my oyster too!!!! What men don’t know can’t hurt them…haha.
I am a woman. I turn my head when I see a hot shirtless man jogging down the street. I have a mega crush on a few sexy rock stars. I still have the magazine of a shirtless Ryan Reynolds from two years ago.
My boyfriend has porn, he like ScarJo and he sees pretty women in public.
We love each other dearly. He is handsome and sexy, and I let him know that often. He tells me I am beautiful and sexy and also what a great person I am, often.
I am not afraid of him leaving me for a porn star – or the waitress. Because we trust each other with the look but don’t touch rule.
I think the problem women have with men’s behavior in this arena is their own sefl-image and self esteem. Look, just because your man like a gorgeous actress does not mean he thinks she is better than you and that you need to meet some standard that society has created.
You do need to be yourself, take care of your health both physically and mentally. And, when you do meet a great guy that loves you for you, trust him.
Beautiful Erica. Every woman who read this article, should read what you just wrote, because you wrote the truth.
This comment helped a lot. Thanks
I think other women should try porn out… its actually a HUGE turn on for women. This helped me understand the porn thing…. because its watching sex, not just the hot woman. I don’t care if my boyfriend watches porn, I watch it too. However, if he actually wants other women, I just don’t want to be in it. If he actually wants to have sex with other women, he shouldn’t be with me. Yes I find other guys hot, yes I am flattered when one flirts with me and maybe I have a flash of a thought like he may about some woman being naked but if those thoughts are indulged upon, I don’t think that is cool. Use porn as an outlet, not your co-worker.
Couldn’t agree more Erica. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the comments from women above didn’t stem from much more serious issues in their relationship. Trust is key, biology is biology. It blows my mind how so many women refuse to acknowledge that, they too, are attracted in one way or another to a good looking man who is not their boyfriend or husband.
For all of you who are watching porn as a couple expect trouble to follow! Yes I thought the way you do, everyone likes it why make it a bad thing. Well fast forward and my husband was way to into it without me and when it was our time, he couldn’t preform. It is hard to be excited about the ordinary woman who truly loves you when you look at so many raunchy things. Throughout this marrige I just can’t keep his attention and I want to give up. I know we love each other but even love and keeping our family together may not be enough, I may need to leave the man I love.
That’s as bad as inviting an attractive woman into your bed.
Erica, loved your story – as it’s the same as mine! My gorgeous boyfriend tells me constantly how hot and sexy and wonderful I am and we can’t keep our hands off each other. It’s been that way since the day we met, five years ago! I watch porn and know he watches it, too. (Haha, I do watch the romantic stuff, though.) I spent the past 15 years of my love life (with my ex-husband and other men before) being terrified my partner would look at/fantasize about other women. It terrified me to the point of panic attacks. I also was overweight most of those years, and terribly unhappy with myself…
Flash forward to now, where I have lost the weight, have a wonderful job and keep myself healthy. My sex life has never been better and I know my man loves me dearly, but he also now feels free (as he didn’t in his marriage) to look at porn and fantasize as he wishes. Those women are not better than me, as you say, Erica – they aren’t me, and I’m irreplaceable. 🙂 They are just variety and pleasure. Nothing can come between the bond my man and I have, and he loves me for who I am.
Love is always a huge risk, guys. It’s always vulnerability, the chance that someone could hurt us and leave us and bring up the fear that we’re not good enough. If you fight that fear, trust me – you will find love like you’ve never known. Be vulnerable. Don’t let fear win. Believe you’re good enough now, as you are, and don’t be afraid to step out into the light.
OMG Erica,
Your boyfriend is super fortunate to have you. Every women should have your point of view. It is so rational and it makes perfect sense.
If I am with a woman, I don’t care who she fantasizes about and she shouldn’t care who I fantasize about. I mean seriously, who cares.
You guys have obviously never been left for the fantasy person. When that happens, you might change your mind.
I am the same Erica. I have crushes too. My boyfriend knew. But he knows they are only crushes. I am very sincere and loyal. I let him see beautiful ladies even in front of me. He was so open. He watched porn at night. I let him do it instead of hiding it from me. The problem is he started to cheat. When I found out that he cheated, I left him. We haven’t seen each other for two years but we still communicate. He still wants me back. He told me I should accept the reality that men cheats. hahaha He is crazy! I totally dumped him!
Good for you Khristine, make sure u never go back to him. 🙂 I bet his ego is so bruised because you realised u are way too good for him. Personally I wouldn’t even spend my time continuing communication with a guy like that. Having celebrity crushes or watching porn is totally fine IMO, but cheating shows that a person is trash and has no integrity.
Hi Twinkle..I also don’t want to talk to him it’s only work related that’s why I continue talking. We are working in the same construction industry. Sometimes he will tell me about his intention but “good” to say I really don’t like him anymore. Trust is gone. For me, when a man cheats he will always be a cheater. Better move on. I can forgive other mistakes because no one is perfect. But when it comes to cheating it’s hard to forget. How can you sleep with a man who had slept or sleeping with other woman? I might get a disease. Better stay away.
Look but don’t touch is a great rule and wonderful if it works for you both. But what about the newer options? What about “look and interact with” on live camera? What about “look and direct message” on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Messenger, SnapChat, etc.? What about “look and like” through secret accounts?
It’s not touching technically, but it still feels like cheating – or a path to cheating.
Nicole #2- I can relate to everything you said, from liking porn to thinking that male ‘strippers’ that don’t take everything off are a waste of time 🙂
BRAINWASHED. But you’re allowed to speak your mind if it doesn’t bother you that your man is fantasizing about fu**ing other women while you’re sitting in the Next Room or sitting next to him then have at it. Go ahead and let him f**k someone else in his mind, even when he’s fu**in you, because he can’t have that person and he is stuck with your ugly ass instead. Sure he says you’re beautiful…of course he does! He’s going to say that – they all say that no matter who she is or how beautiful or how ugly she is, they all tell their women they are beautiful… meanwhile they are jacking off to someone else. If this is okay with you, then good for you.
You may as well be in an open relationship. So hey, have you ever thought about swinging? It sounds like you may enjoy expanding your horizons a bit, trying out some other co*k wh y stop at just fantasizing about someone else or like your boyfriend, fu**ing yourself pretending it’s someone else.
I personally think you’re a stupid fool who doesn’t see it for what it really is…
…and btw, you’re theory of insecurity?
Perhaps these women ARE insecure about their looks. Well I can tell you from experience, they didn’t start out that way. It’s the man next to her who’s always looking for a better view, a better body, a hotter ass to fix his eyes on. A woman can only take so much of this until their beaten down to an insecure mess. (Speaking from experience ) from a fitness model’s mouth who has been on numerous magazine covers, someone considered extremely attractive – I make a living from my good looks and sex appeal. You think I don’t know who I am? How I measure up” ? It’s no secret that I’m gorgeous… I know this myself but none of that can stop the human psyche from tricking it’s self, when you constantly have someone you love sending you the message, “you’re not enough” it gets ingrained in your sub-conscious & you start feeling badly about yourself automatically. It’s human nature.
You’ve obviously become a master at believing rainbows, duckies and bunnies make the world go ’round & everything you’re boyfriend tells you is true, you’re it. You’re the one. You do it for him… believe what you want to believe rather than believing what you see – the reality of it which is: you don’t do it for your boyfriend, not entirely, he doesn’t want just you, you’re ass is boring and repetitive. You’re not enough..if you were he wouldn’t need porn. Know this.
And another thing, I highly doubt your mentality is that of your partners when it comes to your “mega crush”. I can’t imagine you sitting in front of his photos or website, vibrator in hand, “jilling off” to this guy, while wishing he was doing you, then getting off to him. – cuz that’s what your boyfriend does to other women he wishes he was fuc**ing. Women with better boobs, nicer, firmer asses, bodies, better skin, faces, hair, and nails than you!
Men who deny this are full of crap that’s why you don’t see them watching obese people having sex you don’t see them jacking off to obese ugly women now do you? It is about them it is about their looks and yours not being good enough they want more they want better.i it’s great you tell yourself that is not what it is I wish I could lie to myself like that to my life will be great living in a fantasy world, you and your sexy-enough-for -your-boyfriend, who whacks off to other women. Reality is a bitch so I can understand why you brainwash yourself. congrats on your own security, your boyfriend will eventually get tired of not being able to act out on his fantasies and he will cheat on you if he hasn’t already I guarantee you that why don’t you put a spy program on his computer and see what else he does or his phone I guarantee you he’s fu**ng around. Miss secure in your perfect body. Try putting webwatcher on your computer and his phone and see what that turns up and get back to us on that would you? I’ll bet you’d get a rude awakening.
Speak, Girl! Sad but true, what you are saying. If women had more self respect, AS A GROUP, we could make some changes, at least in our own mind controlled brains, if nowhere else. But then maybe force men to grow up.
Oops, here was the link.
Women respond physiologically to seeing sex the same way men do…more might feel guilty about it, but then again, so do some of the men. But that is socialization, not biology.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-24/living/o.women.watching.porn_1_arousal-candida-royalle-explicit-sexual-imagery?_s=PM:LIVING
Nicole, I once read an article where they had men and women watch porn for research. What the viewers did not know was that their eye movements were being tracked. The results were surprising to the researchers. Men spent most of their time watching the woman’s face. The reason is the very same reason that amateur porn became very popular, and even today, a lot of the porn is portrayed as amateur when it is not. Why? Men want to believe that the girl’s visual and verbal signs of pleasure are genuine and not faked. Men like watching sex but they like seeing a woman experiencing pleasure even more. Where do you see most of those signs of er pleasure? In her eyes, and face.
Women on the other hand spent most of their time looking at bodies, especially sexual parts. Again this was all the opposite of what they expected. This was a very old study, 20 or 30 years ago, but maybe I can find it on the net. Here it is or something similar.
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/gender_and_porn_where_men_and_women_look_first
This study makes perfect sense to me. Men want to make sure they are giving pleasure genuinely; women want to make sure he has the goods to give her pleasure, apparently. LOL.
That makes so much sense!. I admit I had a problem with porn. I always preferred watching the action down below and would hate when they’d take long focusing on the women’s face. Crazy.
RustyLH,
“Men spent most of their time watching the woman’s face. The reason is the very same reason that amateur porn became very popular, and even today, a lot of the porn is portrayed as amateur when it is not. Why? Men want to believe that the girl’s visual and verbal signs of pleasure are genuine and not faked.”
That’s funny because there’s nowhere in the world where female pleasure is faked more than in porn. In fact, female porn stars are always overacting, screaming their heads off. It’s ridiculous and utterly comical that anyone watching it would take it seriously and not be able to tell … it’s called acting for a reason.
Hence why I stated the point about amateur porn becoming popular, and then porn companies cashed in on that, making fake amateur porn…in other words, porn where the people are pros, but play it off as if it is not. Also, another type of porn started, where the girls are auditioning. Some of that is really the girl’s first time. I wasn’t so sure about some of it not being fake, but a friend showed me two videos of a girl who did her first, and came back a second time. The guy filming and talking to her lamented the fact that she wasn’t acting like she did the first time. In short, the first time, she was very shy and nervous. Now, after having done a lot of work, she came back, and was no longer shy and nervous. So clearly the first time, really was her first time.
Yes, porn acting was bad, and guys didn’t like it. Didn’t like the overacting, fake cries of pleasure. So the industry adapted. I am sure the pros still act, and a lot of the pleasure they portray is fake, but that is why there is still a huge market for the amateur stuff, and why guys are interested in the new girls…they like the more natural responses of pleasure…not the overacted nonsense. I would venture that when guys watch the pros, they know they pleasure is likely faked, but they are watching the pros because they are prettier than the amateurs, usually.
Now what’s interesting, is that a lot of the guys I talk to, lament how their wives act so differently than when they were dating. Remember how Evan noted that women marry a man, hoping he will change, while men marry a woman, hoping she will never change. I think the reality is that men know women will change in some ways, but they want women to never change in how they act towards him…they way she acts when they are dating. There is a HUGE difference, and the only way I can describe it is that women often act more submissive, more attentive, more shy, more demure, more affectionate, more soft…even if not all the time…but that can go completely out the window, over time. Over time, the relationship with my Ex felt more like being roommates. It actually happened fast, and a lot of guys complain about the same thing. It’s common. Jokes are even made about it…such as the joke about the bride giving the groom, oral sex before the wedding starts…he goes back to the room with his guys, smiling big and says that he just got the best BJ ever, and is marrying the woman that gave it to him. The bride, is back with her girls, and also smiling big, says she just gave the last BJ she’s ever going to give.
I also get the fact that guys do this also…become too comfortable…too complacent. I think men and women both have to do things in their relationship to keep the spark there. I think having a date, once a week…an actual get dressed up date…is a good idea. I think it helps to see the other person really make an effort to look good for you.
Anyway, the point was, I think that’s why guys like to see the new girls…not just to see a new body…they are more interested in seeing that shy, demure, way a girl often has about her on a first date.
@Sophia
Evan also said
Once again, I am not defending men. I am explaining men. Not every single man on the planet. Some men only have eyes for their wife. Some men are attracted to other men. Some men couldn’t conceive of having sex with a woman he didn’t love.
Sophia, not every man is like that. There are some who would never seriously think about having sex with a woman outside of a committed love relationship. If I insist on one of those men, I make my dating pool smaller. Another option is to learn to feel safe with a man who is in the majority of men, most of whom who won’t cheat on me even while physically desiring other women from time to time. The trick is to tell those men from the ones who will cheat.
The third alternative is to give up on dating and learn to be content being w/o a significant other. Having a dating or life partner is one part of life’s richness, but not the whole of it. In our culture we are not accustomed to thinking about the option of going solo and never having an intimate partner. This is a legit choice for some and there are resources and communities out there for people who choose that path.
I have no problem with a man who looks at beautiful women and appreciates them. I look at beautiful women all the time. I am amazed at the cornucopia of beautiful women everywhere in my city and think it’s like being a kid in a candy store for men (unfortunately I don’t feel women have the same luxury…..at least not in my city where eligible single women outnumber men). Beautiful men also turn my eye. Women who are highly jealous and insecure will have a big problem as I do believe men just have to look, that’s how they are made and there is nothing wrong with that.
But if I was on a date with a man, I would not stare at another man or find it difficult to concentrate on my date’s conversation at dinner because there was a hot blond 20 years my junior sitting at the table behind me. When I was out on the dance floor with said date, I would not find it difficult to pay attention to my date, and be constantly looking at the younger hotter women on the dance floor. This happened to me with the last (very good looking) guy I dated, he was 49 (I was 47) when this happened. You would think he’d have enough maturity to look in a discreet way and not ogle to the point that he made me uncomfortable. Needless to say, it did not last, he dumped me and continues to try to meet and date women 10 -20 years his junior.
A man can look discreetly and still be respectful to his wife, date, friend. Ogling younger hotter women when you are in the company of a woman you are having a date or relationship with is just plain rude and bad manners.
My ex-BF and I used to talk about what women were hot, and it did not bother me because I knew he was not going to cheat. I am confident enough to know that there are always going to be younger, hotter women than me and the smart thing as a woman to do is to accept this fact and also express appreciation for female beauty.
I am sorry for your experience but unfortunately if something like that was to happen to me I would probably never date again. I do suffer low self esteem already so if I am out in public and my husband gets interested in another woman or touches himself, it sickens me. I usually walk away when he starts doing it too much and I have started walking off many times. It basically tells everyone around him, he’s not worth my time and he looks bad in the end! Usually when I do this he screams out my name and I ignore him. We used to get into arguments but I find this gets to him more and tells him I am very uncomfortable. It is one thing to just see women and be friendly. It is another to make both her and me very uncomfortable. He had a sex addiction in the past too and I found him pants dropped and gettng off to an old friend. He said he was sorry but it is hard when you realize your man is addicted to women there mouths and sexuality. Dont ask why I didnt leave then. Like I said, I had insecurity issues of my own. He is 10 years older than me and still more immature. I guess I figured an older man would show more maturity. He learned much of his habbits in the army and is better so I guess I should be happy but now he feels like I control his behavior and mind. I just dont feel like much of what he did was appropriate and we are likely getting divorced soon. I didnt want to change him but I just feel it is disrespectful as I would if I were to flirt with every male waiter I saw. If I am married, we become one soul. What hurts one person, should hurt the other and that’s just how I feel. It is a touchy subject but it is something that we all need to discuss and resolve as a society!!!
@Susan61
“(unfortunately I don’t feel women have the same luxury…..at least not in my city where eligible single women outnumber men)”
So, what city do you live in again?
I notice beautiful/handsome/cute men, women and dogs, and encourage the man to do the same. If this leads to him cheating on me with one of them, his loss. Never happened so far, though. Same goes for strip clubs and porn.
@ Nicole #2 – love your comment! 😀
Hey, anyone read Eric Anderson’s book, The Monogamy Gap?. Open your mind and check it out before responding to this post, (you can peruse a few pages on Amazon), as it sheds a great deal of light on the subject. Anderson admits that he only writes for men and though his book deals mainly with men, he acknowledges that much the same may be said for women. Sorry Evan, but I disagree with the study that claims that women can be perfectly content with the same man forever…. we’re only socialized to think we would be content with that. The desire for sexual variety goes both ways. Here is a quote from a review of the book that sums it up: “Anderson suggests that monogamy is an irrational ideal because if fails to fulfill a lifetime of sexual desires. Cheating therefore becomes a rational response to an irrational situation”. He has some outside-the-box suggestions about how to re-tool relationships so they don’t end in breakup or divorce due to cheating. Much of the book is hard to argue with. I didn’t write it, but it is great food for thought. Marriage is failing in many societies worldwide and this book offers some hope.
These posts aren’t dated so I’m probably responding late into the thread. Good point, Jane, and interesting article. While I understand – and maybe even agree with it in theory, I just haven’t seen it play out well in practice. For either gender.
The arguments I routinely hear/read in support of Polyamory (or some form of it) come to mind. Are there a percentage of folks that this can work for? Sure. And I’m all for people doing whatever works for them. It wouldn’t work for me. Not built that way and like several others have already posted, would rather retain my freedom, discretionary time and esteem rather than submit to a relationship lifestyle that presents (at least for types like me) more insecurity and angst than what I would personally gain.
Maybe that makes me less “open” or sexually free. Maybe I can only hope to find a relationship where this issue only reaches gawking and excessive porn watching over time, but no actual cheating. I don’t have that answer yet. I’m not going to give up on love nor do I think all men are evil. I’m also not going to accept a relationship where monogamy isn’t chosen – and note I said chosen, because it is a choice.
Not an easy one, per se, especially for men. But a choice nonetheless.
You can’t just cherry pick the benefits from an exclusive relationship or marriage (support, companionship, comfort, regular sex, attention, etc.) and then claim that its irrational to expect exclusive sexual interest/fidelity. Again, that may work for some and if so, great! But I haven’t seen that to be the case.
I have some close colleagues and we’ve had some really interesting discussions about dating/relationships/marriage over the years. A few of them are (were!) obstinately in support of more open type arrangements and very passionate about why it was the better option. I said (were!) because all of them are back involved in exclusive relationships now for roughly the same reasons.
One of the “sexually open” colleagues was faithful during his entire 18 year marriage. And admits it was very hard at times but felt his marriage as a whole offered more to him than being able to experience others. It was only after they divorced (for reasons unrelated to infidelity) that he decided monogamous relationships were just not realistic or fulfilling over the long term, and he would seek a more open situation in the future.
He was able to experience more women sexually without any guilt, while getting some of his emotional/intellectual needs met as well. THIS was the more authentic way for things to be and there were plenty of studies and/or practicing parties to prove it! Everything was all ponies and rainbows for about two years. And then the novelty started to wane, as did the passionate advocacy.
In his own “it was fun while it lasted” words, the overall quality of those he found practicing his same lifestyle was less than what he would personally select for a long-term monogamous relationship. Say what?
(To his credit, he was up front about his lifestyle and did not deceive women looking for an exclusive relationship – not all would have that integrity).
As for the part of the “Monogamy Gap” article that states, “… and open relationships can wither jealousy scripts that lead to emotional distress in a relationship.” His comment? Simply not true. Because invariably someone would start to develop more feelings – feelings of wanting exclusivity, because it was one thing to be sexually open and free with others that didn’t evoke strong attachment, but entirely another to find someone in that circle that did.
Hmm … back to the age old dilemma that there are those you can be experience and be casual with, and there are those you want to marry.”
In the end he said he found that intense jealousy, arguments and angst permeated that “lifestyle choice” just as much as any other, if not more. So he returned to monogamy and is now engaged to a more traditional woman (as he put it) that he met online.
Hardly a case study but you get the gist. I don’t think the majority of men choose monogamy because it is the easiest, most thrilling option. They choose it because they can’t get the other good stuff from the alternative.
Those who think they honestly can, should.
It goes without saying that partners should keep a measure of independence, self-interests and self-care. (Other postings address this more) And if a couple has no problem engaging in healthy porn watching or looking at the other sex, awesome. I don’t see the inherent harm in it as long as both parties understand and keep within the boundaries that they need to feel secure.
When I’m in a relationship, I will frequently point out hot women (and occasionally men) to my partner when we are in a bar, restaurant or even a shopping mall! I think this “partners in crime” approach works very well as it then becomes a secret pass-time you share (ogling gorgeous people) rather than something he has to feel ashamed about. I think men greatly appreciate this sort of approach, and the confidence it implies on your part makes you very sexually appealling to him. I would never ask him to compare us (nor, to be honest, would I tolerate it if he said”yeah, her tits are much better than yours”) but in fact it often leads to the opposite scenario – the more often you say “check out that girl with the amazing ass” the more likely he will reply, “there’s some pretty great ass right here,” and give yours a squeeze.
Elaine said: (#5)
“you have no right to complain when a woman cheats. MEN are the ones who have made us this way. Do unto others, boys.”
I’ve been cheated on before. (And I’ve never cheated on anyone.)
So if I follow your line of reasoning, my fiancée has no right to complain if I cheat on her, because women are the ones who made me this way. I would just be doing unto my fiancée what other women have done to me.
I think your reasoning is flawed. You are responsible for your own infidelity, regardless of how many men (or women) have cheated on you in the past.
Elaine said: (#5)
“I feel bad for any man who might actually want a monogomous, loving, nurturing, supportive partner as I did all those years,”
As a 42 year old man who found a monogomous, loving, nurturing, supportive partner, I can offer you an observations.
If you were truly a monogamous partner, you wouldn’t try to use other people’s infidelity as justification for your own infidelity. You would respond to infidelity by leaving and continuing to search for a partner with more integrity.
Elaine said: (#5)
“It’s was okay for him to look, but I couldn’t”
Why couldn’t you?
My fiancée and I are both allowed to look at other people. We’re both allowed to dance with other people. We’re both allowed to flirt with other people (within reason).
As long as the same rules apply to both people, it’s possible to have a healthy relationship.
Elaine said: (#5)
“the words, ‘Damn, I sure wish I had her instead of you’ could be heard by everyone in the room, even though he hadn’t actually uttered them aloud.”
Everyone in the room doesn’t have telepathy. More importantly, you don’t have telepathy either. Therefore, that voice you heard was your own insecurity talking, not his actual thoughts.
Even if the men were ogling enough to be boorish (which was likely the case), your interpretation of their thoughts sounds incredibly insecure. Good partners don’t tolerate that degree of insecurity, because they don’t have to.
Nicole, (#2, etc.)
I find your attitude a lot healthier than Elaine’s (#5) or Sophia’s (#3).
helene, (#14)
Good advice, especially the final sentence.
Elle
thank you. I’ve struggled with this for a long time; I’m already a very mature aged woman & from a very early age was exposed to girly magazines being sprawled over my parents coffee table. I was only 8 when I learned anxiety for my mother; shame for my father when I did not know what shame was. My feelings then as a child, whether or not they affected how I think now, were innocent and evoked by fear my parents would split, and that my father desired another life.
I ask everyone that posted on this post & subject, if it is natural for a man to have desire for a beautiful woman, then why is it not natural that a man stop his desires so it does nor affect his family & his children’s lives?
Is this not using theories of evolution & justifying male driven desires as an excuse to laugh it off and continue regardless. If i counted how many good men I could have gone with but I didn’t because I was a mother and did not want to expose my children to, I would be rich.
Yes, women also stray & men are not always to blame.
Karl
no harm intended but insecurity is a word overused by men to push blame into women.
Sorry
I roll my eyes whenever women say all men are cheaters or only want sex with a variety of random young women. It’s not true — there are plenty of nice nerdy devoted guys out there. Most women just don’t want to marry them.
BUT, when I was younger and dumber I had affairs with married men and men in ltrs. Nearly every woman I know has been propositioned by, if not outright hooked up with, an attached guy in a years long relationship. And these were not blatantly sleazy player types – nobody ever would have guessed, bc they seemed like good guys that are real husband/bf material. In my case, they got to be with a woman way younger, more appreciative, and more sexually enthusiastic than their wives. It’s also very common to see middle aged married women let themselves go, get frumpy, stop putting out, nag the guy, prize the kids over him, and not make him feel appreciated.
Other women are at risk of being cheated on down the line if they too much fall into the stereotype you see in movies of the woman the guy is “supposed” to marry – generic girl next door type with generic aspirations, made him wait six months for sex, no original style or high sex drive but she’s nice and would be a good mom. Maybe she was hard to get. And, eventually, I believe men crave someone more real – not just hotter, but more intellectually challenging, quirky, and not predictably fitting the mold.
So Evan sometimes paints too rosy a picture of men, but this is never something I’ve worried about, once I felt I was with a good guy– you’d drive yourself crazy if you did.
It’s sad that you feel the need to blame the woman for the cheating husband, perhaps saying this makes you believe that it wont happen to you.
Yikes.
Trust me gal, “old” & “frumpy” will happen to you too. There’s no avoiding aging unless you throw in the towel early. We’ll see how well you do at being perceived as still the “more appreciative , sexually enthusiastic hot chic” at 45. No matter how hard you try.
Good Luck with that
There’s a big difference for most us between feeling attracted to other people and acting on those desires. There’s a big difference between stealing a glance at an attractive person when you’re with your partner, and ogling them. There’s a big difference between occasionally looking at porn and being addicted to it. Of course, we may often reign in our desires out of respect for our partners.
My happily married male friends have volunteered the information that the idea of sleeping with a stranger holds no appeal for them, although that probably doesn’t mean they don’t find other women attractive. Actually, I know more females who have either cheated, or thought about it, than I do men who have. I also think that people cheat on their partners for reasons other than simple physical attraction, although that is a factor.
There’s a big difference between fantasy and reality. For many of us, appreciation of other attractive people while we’re happily partnered, remains in the realm of fantasy. If my boyfriend tells me that he has always found Elizabeth Taylor attractive, that’s not likely to bother me. If it’s one of my best friends, that’s a different story.
Every since I was a teenager, I have seen attractive men (and sometimes women) and I always wonder and fantasize what it would be like to have sex with him (or her). I am in my 40s now and although I don’t love having sex w/ my partner, I still think about having sex w/ that cute new check out guy at the grocery store and every other cute/handsome man who crosses my path.
I am not my partner’s type and I know this. I lose on that count. He isn’t my type either. In a lot of ways. But, you work with what you’ve got, I guess…
I wonder why the title of this entry is what it is. Men looking at other women is not the same thing as men cheating; they may not even be related.
People look at other people. People notice when other people are attractive, whether you’re a man or a women looking at a man or a woman. There is no shame or sin in this. It’s as others have mentioned above: what matters is not whether men (or women) look, but whether they act on on that attraction. The vast majority of the time (given how many attractive people exist), they don’t.
So let’s relax about this. Eye candy is a pleasure, just as works of art and beautiful natural scenes are a pleasure.
If you see a hot guy near you, you’d at least take a few glances at him.
If you see a car crash in the middle of the street, you’d stare at it.
If you see a nerdy guy cruising down the street on his unicycle, you’d stare at him.
If you see a small cute dog skipping down the street, you’d keep looking and want to pet him.
Basically, if anything is hot…weird…strange…unusual…different, you’d look at it too. No biggie.
As long as your man doesn’t keep ogling at a woman in front of you, it’s no big deal.
But if you feel disrespected and you let him know it, he’s gotta stop.
Simple as that.
Chau,
You mentioned my issue with my man, my boyfriend of three years. He does it constantly IN FRONT OF ME ! It shows rudeness, low class and down right narcissistic qualities that I am really starting to abhor and frankly, I don’t want to accept. He is so defensive when I have brought it up in a light hearted manner or when I am so angry, I become so quiet , it freaks him out. It has happened three days this week and not only does he do this (esp. today) and I feel disrespected, I feel INVISIBLE. The fact that he invited me to a place or event and then treats me like I am not there….except the occasional glance or fake smile after he’s eye-fucked the chick. I am very attractive and am a good and fun person, but this is starting to really change my feelings for him. I love him but am so turned off. I make it a point to not look at men and believe me, they are alllllll around allllll of the time. (the beach , so on.) I would not ever make him feel less than. I wonder why I am not worth him not doing this kind of thing in front of me.
These men can be reformed when their love for their partner is true. Sadly, there really is no happy ending which I found out having been in this pathetic position myself. My partner ogled and gawked and lied and denied for three years until I had enough and went on a dating spree to see if A – It was his problem or B- I was the insecure, un confident female and it was mine. I found out a lot of very interesting things after years of therapy , which by the way we both sought as we truly love and adore each other. My partner was in a loveless / sexless/ emotionless marriage yet staying for his kids. He discovered porn, became addicted which led to his blatant objectification of women every single place he went. When I took drastic measures to test the His/ mine problem by dating , he lost his mind and low and behold it was proven it was his issue. The other men barely even noticed rooms full of pretty sexy women. My partner now left with the ultimatum change or be replaced suddenly has the will power and need to have his perfectly fine brain, tell his perfectly fine eyes to stop disrespecting and belittling his ” one true love” Two years on, I have a dream man. He occasionally gets taken aback with the type who even is us ladies would not be able to take in, but only for a brief second. I believe he was sick mentally and it did take hard work to overcome but by God he did a 360 degree turn around. Now… Here is the VERY sad part. He’s ” Fixed and his issue is now mine. You see, if someone stole from you every single day for three years would you really believe you could leave money and valuables around them again? Well, I can’t put all the beautiful sexy women in the world away to ensure my fear won’t arise as it still does every day were in a room full of hotties. So , even though he’s proved himself , I still
Wait to be let down and hurt. This angers me as I want to feel normal about him but I doubt I ever will.
You will get over it Wanda. In time. Just be patient with yourself. You have to understand that you have created a world in your head with all the information that has come to you through your eyes, ears, etc. You created an idea of love from all this information but you have to understand that YOUR idea of what love should be is in your head and your partner has a different image bases on HIS information. He is trying to make his idea match yours now that he has more information about himself and full marks to him for doing that. You need to stop tormenting yourself with these other women. If he has told you he loves you, has put in all the effort to be with you and tries to be the man you want then there is only one thing you have to ask yourself: is he an honest man? If the answer is yes then you need to KNOW that if he says he loves you and doesn’t want to hurt you then it’s TRUE. If he slips up and looks at other women, so what, he’s not perfect – but don’t fabricate some story in your head that he doesn’t love you because he looked at a pretty girl. THAT IS YOUR STORY, IN YOUR HEAD not his story in his head. He loves you – don’t keep wasting your time thinking otherwise.
Hi Wanda,
You wrote an article on my life. Do you feel normal now? I need to know how to feel normal. I still cry everyday. My husband is a really good man. He adores me but can not take his eyes off other women and flirt even if I am around. I feel disrespectful, embarrassed and belittle. I am pretty and good looking. Lots of men ogles me even when I am with my husband. I do feels very embarrassed about it. Anyway my husband promise to stop. He said he does not realize what he does. Do you think a man can really stop doing that when his wife is not around?
Women would be perfectly content with the same man forever, as long as he mixed it up in the bedroom a bit.
I can’t relate to that. I really loved my ex boyfirned of ten years and yet I still got bored with him in the bedroom. Women cheat more or as much as men do nowadays. I think some women like variety as well but are more quiet about it.
Keri, that’s exactly what I see going on around me. However, most men refuse to believe that or are able to ignore this. This is why we still have these kind of discuscusions on how women should understand men. Frankly, I’m bored. Men should try to understand women for a change.