What Do Men Get Out of Looking At Other Women? (And Why Do Men Cheat?)

What Do Men Get Out of Looking at Other Women? (And Why Do Men Cheat?)
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Dear Evan,

What is it that men get out of looking/gazing at beautiful women, nude or otherwise?

I have read on other websites that men actually get a chemical “high” in their brain when they see an attractive woman and that is why they are so drawn to look at other women even when they are in love with another. I’m wondering, from your perspective, what you think it is. Are men sexually “turned on” when they see a beautiful woman naked and automatically fantasize about having sex with her or is it more of just plain old admiration for the beautiful female form with no arousal? And, if it is sexual arousal, does that happen only in seeing a naked woman (magazine, strip joint, porn) or does that happen when you see a beautiful clothed woman as well? I have always been very curious about this as I think it is very different for women. —Cat

Dear Cat,

Thoughtful and provocative question, and I’m going to attempt to tackle it even though I’m no therapist, historian or biologist.

First off, I want to acknowledge that everything you wrote, in my estimation, is true.

Men, regardless of relationship status, get a chemical high in seeing attractive women.

Men can appreciate the female form, either clothed or naked.

Men, regardless of relationship status, get a chemical high in seeing attractive women.

Men are aroused by images of clothed or naked women (but not as much as you’d think.)

What I’d like to add to all of those ideas is that none of that should affect your relationship…unless you make it affect your relationship.

In other words:

GOOD men, regardless of relationship status, get a chemical high in seeing attractive women.

GOOD men can appreciate the female form, either clothed or naked.

GOOD men are aroused by images of clothed or naked women (but not as much as you’d think.)

Without covering the entire landscape of debates about DNA or evolution or propagation of the species, here’s my take on the whole thing:

Men, since the beginning of time, were designed to spread their seed.

Because monogamy lowers the chances that our genes will survive, men are not, by nature, monogamous creatures. We choose monogamy because we deem that it’s more beneficial to have love, stability, and a nuclear family than to have lots of children running around with our eyes. But make no mistake, monogamy is a choice, not a natural state.

Men can watch porn, fantasize about other women, and still be great husbands and fathers.

Anyway, in my estimation, the male sex drive has nothing to do with kindness or personality or compatibility. It is entirely based on physical attraction, which we feel instantly with the release of dopamine, serotonin, and testosterone. This is why men can know if they would sleep with you in less than five seconds.

As far as what’s physically attractive? I think it’s largely based on societal reinforcement. Most men, for example, agree that symmetrical faces with small noses and certain hip to waist ratios (thin waist, wider hips) are considered attractive. Naturally, there are some men who like older women or heavier women or women with one leg. There’s a lid for every pot. Still, a lot of men still want to try on the same lid, who just happens to be 20-30 years old, have stunning features and is built like a Barbie doll. Moving along…

Next, I’d like to assert that a man’s sexual tastes and feelings of attraction don’t disappear because he is in love with another woman.

His intense feelings for his girlfriend may lessen his desires to look elsewhere for sex. But once those intense feelings of chemistry go away (as they usually do after 18 to 36 months — just long enough to conceive and raise a young child), his attraction will still spike every time he sees an attractive woman, in some form or another.

The more self-aware men understand this intellectually, and relegate those spikes of attraction to what they are — biologically programmed bursts of pleasure. We give ourselves doses of this pleasure when we’re walking on a beach, when we’re at an outdoor concert, when we’re at parties, and especially when we’re on the Internet. I’ve heard that 30% of the internet is porn, and if this is the case, it should be no surprise.

Men crave variety. This is normal. It’s all about whether he acts on this desire.

Men can admit attraction to favorite celebrities, and still be great husbands and fathers.

Men can watch porn, fantasize about other women, and still be great husbands and fathers.

Men can go to bachelor parties, go to a strip club, and still be great husbands and fathers.

I know this because I’ve done all of the above and I know I am not alone.

And since the value of my marriage is far greater than the value of sleeping with a stranger in Paris, I remain faithful, even though I’m attracted to other women everywhere I go. It would never even occur to me after 300 dates and nearly 10 years as a dating coach that there’s anyone out there who’d make me happier for the next forty years than my own wife.

That doesn’t mean in some alternate universe that I wouldn’t like to be able to have my cake and eat it, too. That’s essentially what alpha males do — get married and keep sleeping with other women. John Edwards, Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant – we can probably make a list of most politicians, athletes and rock stars.

Men would be perfectly content having missionary sex with a new woman every night.

So why do men cheat?

Because they’re perpetually attracted to new women.

Because they’re high profile, rich, ambitious men who are desirable to these women.

Because they’re so important that they don’t think the rules apply to them.

Because they travel a lot and are frequently exposed to temptation.

Because they don’t value their wives as much as the thrill.

Because they don’t rationally calculate the value of their losses. So Tiger sleeps with a waitress in a Denny’s parking lot and he loses a half billion dollars, his wife, his kids, and his golf mojo. Somehow, I don’t think he considered that with his pants around his ankles.

This is just a long, roundabout way of saying that, in general, men want variety.

I recall a study that said the exact same thing.

Men would be perfectly content having missionary sex with a new woman every night.

Women would be perfectly content with the same man forever, as long as he mixed it up in the bedroom a bit.

The results didn’t surprise me in the least.

Once again, I am not defending men. I am explaining men. Not every single man on the planet. Some men only have eyes for their wife. Some men are attracted to other men. Some men couldn’t conceive of having sex with a woman he didn’t love.

These are perfectly normal men, but they are also exceptions.

So even if we establish that men are driven by sex, it’s far from the whole story, as evidenced by the 50 million married men in the United States.

Simply put, men want love, too. Even if we still like to look elsewhere.

It’s far better to understand and accept these qualities in men than to shame them, insult them, or tell them that they’re wrong for being this way.

As long as he treats you well and doesn’t take action on his desires, you’ve got a good man whose desire for you is stronger than his real sexual impulse to be with someone else.

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Comments:

  1. 441
    Trish

    @ yet another guy

    I understand your point of view but maybe I should provide some background information. This guy was involved with the music industry at a high level for years. He was used to objectifying women who threw themselves at major pop stars. I understand that sex and emotion don’t necessarily go hand in hand for either sex as I know women to feel the same way.

    However, it’s not the looking, it’s the lingering that bothers me because as I said, I get those ‘looks’ from other men and I’d hazzard a guess that of the two of us, I’d be the one who’d have more chance at cheating. I have gone from a very confident woman to doubting myself as he makes remarks about how a woman looks, usually negatively. He really is no oil painting himself but we had similar interests and enjoyed each other’s company until he began talking about threesomes and then this ‘honesty’ crap. I really just think this is the final nail in the coffin that is our relationship.

    1. 441.1
      Yet Another Guy

      @Trish

      I agree that there is a difference between looking and staring.   There is definitely a difference between a glance and staring.   I am never going to stop looking at and mentally undressing attractive women, but I never flat-out stare because that is creepy.   I am also never going to bring it up with any woman who comes into my life.   That is the kind of move gets filed under Mr. Ron White’s “You can’t fix stupid.”   Your guy has no filter, which is the real problem.   Can you live with a guy who has no filter?   His lack of a filter is bound to spill over into other areas of life.

      1. 441.1.1
        Trish

        @ Yet Another Guy

        I think that you have the right attitude about staring and keeping it subtle. It’s the ‘f**king her’ that requires a mental image that takes more than a glance.

        You are also correct about him having no filter and no, I can’t live with this. I have usually found that when people make negative comments based on appearance alone, it’s more to do with their own insecurities and objectifying another human solely on their looks is immature. I talk to strangers eg; elderly people who are really interesting and I try to get to know someone before judging them. He just goes on their looks which is probably why he was attracted to show business because it’s false but entertaining. Cary Grant once famously said; ‘Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant’. At least he realised that it was a persona but not really him.

    2. 441.2
      K

      I think someone once said something to me along the lines of honesty without compassion, can be brutality.

      There’s a difference between honest + kindness, e.g. “of course I look at hot women babe, I’m a guy!   But I still think you are all kinds of hot!”

      vs.

      “Yes I love staring at hot women, it’s my thing, live with it.”   And then leering at women around you.

      1. 441.2.1
        Trish

        @ K

        Yes I totally agree that honesty without compassion is brutality.

  2. 442
    bruyere

    The intent of the blog, where I almost stopped reading, due to the common distaste of the standard opinion of the dismissal of men’s behaviors caused by driven traits they were born with, was flipped when I moved a little beyond the blog into the reactive chain of comments that I could not stop reading on this cloudy afternoon. It is OK not to be comfortable with the person with whom they invited you into their life under a premeditated false persona (they knew they were looking at porn, or flirtatious, or constantly ogling women’s bodies on the internet or at work, having sexting or emotional affairs, choosing other women’s bodies over yours, constantly on the prowl for the newest version; ultimately withholding a secret life from you). This is not what you agreed to if this is something you are “finding out” and being hurt by. It’s not ok to be the only one heartbroken in a relationship and have to “put up” with ANY behavior that makes you feel less of person or less loved or honored in a relationship. It’s not a relationship if you didn’t agree to it. You didn’t invite this third person (thousands of women behind screen, webcams, or whatever the media is, or the waitress at the restaurant with the shrunken shorts). Why does a woman have to tolerate it because it’s in the mans face everywhere he turns and it’s in his “nature to look or relieve his tensions” whatever the excuse is. I know plenty of women, who are absolutely doing everything for the man and they still can’t believe he is still in this category. It’s a slap in the face. It’s time to stop blaming it on “men will be men”. Men are perfectly capable of turning their head the other way, closing their browser when a temptation pops up, not seeking out an escort or stopping at the honey house when on a business trip. Phones and computers with passwords and constant access to cheating has made this a world of ED. Time to wake up when men in their late 20’s, 30’s and 40’s can’t ejaculate to a real woman and can only finish off to their own hand and a loud scream of banchees. We are becoming a world of women wanting sex from our men and can’t get it because they are too tired from jerking off at work because they couldn’t make it after staring up the skirt of the new hire or sat in some parking garage getting their last fix on their phones. Can we get a real man, that enjoys the feel and smell of real woman, not touched up in some picture. I will not compete with that. I’ll move on and be by myself and you can have at all those women. See if they’d like your jelly roll that get’s in the way of your junk that your hand is hiding while you do yourself because that’s the only way you can climax when you get of age, when she’s there waiting on her back. No thank you. So, to all the men that say it’s your nature. Nature had you making love to a real live person. Not thousands of different women through a glass screen. Diseases will stop your floundering one day. Your looks will fade too, and soon you will be the creepy old guy. Karma is coming to make you alone and limp. So maybe men need to rethink this access to ever woman and look at the one in front of them before it is too late. It’s in your nature MF. We will be looking the other way at a man that chose only us.

  3. 443
    Natalia

    Interesting how most would say that men have an instinctual sense to reproduce and that they’re hardwired to feel a certain way about looking at women or should I say beautiful women! I find that hypothesis to be outdated! Men and women have evolved   from their basic instincts, it’s simple. We adapt to the world we live in, henceforth, we don’t continue to eat with our hands and can communicate complex sentences. And let’s just say men do have a need to reproduce and that’s why they feel the need to spread their seed…than I ask do women not have that same basic need? I mean wouldn’t women have more desire to reproduce since she’s the one that feels and adjusts to the hormones ensued with pregnancy and sex? So, why do most women not have that excuse of wanting to fertilize? Furthermore, do women not enjoy looking at beautiful things in life does our Brain just shut down when we see something pretty? Wrong, I bet when we see something wonderful our brain releases a very similar chemical. The biggest thing that affects us all is the idea that men have this uncontrollable urge and that we should just smile and nod as if we weren’t somewhat manipulated into thinking this way. Society places these restrictions on women as if it’s normal and or we don’t grave sex as much as men do. Bottom line, resources are limited to women, most ads. are female dominated, most t.v sexualizes women over men, most porn is concentrated on men’s pleasure rather than women’s, and let’s face it most men don’t wear skimpy clothes in order to attract a mate. We are sexual beings, women just get the short stick as if we don’t want and feel the same things as men do. I’m over men being simplified and women being overexamined as if we are so complex.

  4. 444
    Sarah

    Just curious as to what are you men who are fathers of daughters, going to say when they grow up and get married and their husbands are hanging out in strip clubs, viewing porn, and cheating? What are you going to do when your daughter comes home crying in your wife’s lap , nine months pregnant that her husband is hanging out in a strip club, while she is home alone?   Are you just going to tell your daughter to go home and suck it up because boys will be boys , they can’t help it?

  5. 445
    Sarah

    Men come across as so self entitled. Just because YOU stare at other women, does not mean they would have you for God’s sakes!! That is what I find so funny. Men seem to think they can have anyone. Women laugh at men like that, little do you men know! I see it all the time, they make fun of men who look desperate, because you look pathetic!!! No woman wants a man who acts like that, especially when you do it with your wife beside you! Who wants a cheater?? I had a coworker who was a stripper, she said men would come in and give her their entire check to rub her tits on them, and laugh with their friends they were the cock of the walk. Not realizing, that when they went home BROKE, she was out with her BF spending your check!!!! My God, how dumb can one be! Some men have a good woman, and throw it away on what? I peek at a tit, a porn video with a woman who you cant touch? Really? In the end of your life, who is going to be there for you when you are sick? The stripper at the bar? The tramp on the porn tape? No, you will die alone, and miserabe with a limp d***!! Men you need to appreciate the woman you are married too, cherish her, treat her the way she deserves, and you will get treated the same because in the end, that is all that is going to be important. The life you built together, your adventures and memories, NOT porn, strippers, and tramps!!!

  6. 446
    Amy

    We’ve been married over 50 year’s and I’m sure my husband still checks out women espicially real red heads with freckles. I can’t say any more because we never go out together. I wasn’t happy about him watching another women, he just told me he didn’t care whether I liked it or not that he couldn’t do anything about it if he tried. In all the years we have been together we share property space I live in the house and he he lives in a cottage out back on our 5 acres. The reason he was never a sexual person and always had erection problems and I constantly whined, begged, argued to see a doctor. He did and back then he was told it was nerves but he was healthy, and no other problems. I kept on him to go a shrink that didn’t work either! Then the time came he blew up and this was his first and last time, due to me whining. He told me to shut up, leave him alone and never talk to him again that was when he moved his thing to the cottage. He then started working long hours on the mid nights, all week ends, holiday, vacation and I’m sure he just wanted to be away from me. Over the years he had health problems and was taking meds.   ( note: He tried viagra when it came out and he got sick, also he isn’t gay or have something on the side, his only thing was checking out other women)

     

  7. 447
    mj

    No woman would ever be happy or any what satisfied with the same man every night doing some tiny adjustment to their sex life.
    That is something men tell themselves to feel better.
    Biology has it that men worry about raising another man’s offspring-proof that women have a variety of interests as well. She is only limited by societal conditioning/slut shaming, raising babies.

    Society is reflecting that now that women are actually allowed to work. Divorce rates skyrocketed and women thrive in singlehood, date younger men, and enjoy variety.
    A patriarchal society does not change biology, and every woman is attracted to many men.
    She only needs to lose the fear and or be able to support herself financially to experience it.

  8. 448
    AuroraTheLuxuriousBallBuster

    Because monogamy lowers the chances that our genes will survive

    Most illogical thing I’ve ever heard. Monogamy will create just as many babies because women can only become pregnant once in 9 months. Doesn’t matter if it’s one woman to one man or one man to 50 women. There’s about an even amount of men and women to match with each other. This is just an excuse made by selfish men and accepted by sheepish women.

  9. 449
    Wonder

    Evan,

    I first read through ur discussion ” What to men get out of looking at other woman..and why do men cheat ” without knowing it’s by a male…but while reading only it was very obvious and I was wondering that this should be definitely a male and then noticed ur name..

    Seriously….u ‘ve done nothing other than defending men..
    “I’d like to assert that a man’s sexual tastes and feelings of attraction don’t disappear because he is in love with another woman.
    His intense feelings for his girlfriend may lessen his desires to look elsewhere for sex. But once those intense feelings of chemistry go away (as they usually do after 18 to 36 months — just long enough to conceive and raise a young child), his attraction will still spike every time he sees an attractive woman, in some form or another.
    The more self-aware men understand this intellectually, and relegate those spikes of attraction to what they are — biologically programmed bursts of pleasure.”
    Especially the above told lines…do u think women’s sexual tastes and desires disappear after marrying a man….they do get everything that u ‘ve described above…jus that they know to control and suppress and ignore those desires …becoz thats what being loyal or faithful to her spouse means…

    And yu ppl seriously how long will yu keep telling this…biologically men are designed that way …wired that way….as an excuse…rubbish…

     

    And… “once the intense feelings of chemistry goes away…ie 18 or 36 months attraction for other women may spike up in some form or other”…

    Omg….

    I think it’s time men change their view of life and ignore all these excuses and understand his woman in all ways…placing himself from her perspective…

    Men can be  great husbands and fathers even with attractive desires for other women…but note that your love for your woman is not pure then….being husbands and fathers is just a duty…but loving ur spouse is different…to be thought at a deeper level…

    And there ‘re so many men who don’t look at women other than spouse…U can focus them rather focussing on the other men and making the world continue to believe that men ‘re wired this way..excuses

  10. 450
    Adrian

    Yes Wonder,

    You are right! It’s all just Evan’s pro-male rhetoric. The countless research studies by both men and women, from as old as almost a 100 years ago to studies published as recent as last year saying the same thing doesn’t count… Somehow Evan tricked all those female scientist and researchers like Helen Fisher who say the same things.

    Evan is so misogynistic, going as far as creating repeatedly proven facts that were tested in various different countries, with different cultures, and different eithnic groups all with the same results ALL just so Evan could  propagate mansplaining.

     

  11. 451
    Angie

    Just remember ladies there are guys out there that look at you the same way. As your man looks at other women. Always think about that when it starts to bother you.

  12. 452
    No Name To Give

    Lol ANGIE, if they’re looking at me that way, there is something wrong with them.

  13. 453
    Caroline

    How depressing is it that men would rather sleep with fresh ass every night, without forming a connection or caring about her personality than mix it up with an amazing soul mate for better sex.
    It is beyond selfish, shallow and it makes me seethe that Evan’s stance is ‘men are like this, suck it up’ I don’t want to be with anybody who thinks this way. The biological trigger argument is also a lazy convenience. If I want to poop on the floor and say ‘hey it’s a biological trigger, can’t help it’ i’d still be locked up for public indecency. The problem is other women and ex girlfriends putting up with men’s shitty behaviour for so long, making them impossible to train. And yes men have to be trained, cos most of them are thoughtless and act on impulse because they’re allowed to get away with leering at other women and screwing around by insecure women.

    1. 453.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      You contradict yourself.

      On one hand, you “seethe” that men are like this.
      On the other, you admit that men are like this and have to be trained.

      So which is it? Are men like this? Or are they not like this?

  14. 454
    Feeling betrayed

    I understand all about men’s eyes wondering to other women. However, I’m at the point I don’t belive a word my husband tells me when he says that I’m sexy while having sex or oral. That’s the only time I hear the word sexy unless he is just texting a quick love text. I’m over weight, not by much, but my belly hangs over my female area. My breast sag cause I’m in my 40s and they are large but also hang because of side underarm fat. I have a flat but, short legs and no waist due to my live handle. I’m 5ft. Im just 50 lbs over weight. I work out all the time, toning all gaining muscle and losing weight slowly. My husband watches twerk videos, looks up all kinds of thin big butt women with huge thighs. He gets turned on when I wear a thing and try to twerk ir just Dance for him. I’m a total freak in the bed. However, he still continues to lust over these videos and pictures of women I can never look like. He says I’m beautiful and sexy..but answer this then..How the hell am I beautiful and sexy to him when all he seems to be looking and listing over are women with huge butts, thin waistline, flat to somewhat flat stomachs and huge thighs… How to I ever believe a damm word he tells me? He says he don’t get turned on by these women but I know he does. He continues to hide all his activities and searches, changes passwords, locks me out of his social media and locks his phone because cobfront him when i have the proof. He denies it, tells me im crazy and that im the kne who is hiding and doing wrong because I’m accusinghim. I take screen shots, look up his socialmedia activities. He says for me to stop being so insecure. I had total confidence in myself self and my body till I was devistated by his on going sexual lust over women. This has been going on for our whole marriage. No matter how msny tears I shed, how anger I get it never stops! I told him, I understand men look and that I honestly have no problem if a woman was walking, running or driving by and he was looking..it’s fine I get it. But my problem is..He actually types up words to deliberately look these women up. I feel used for sex since sometimes I discovered he watched or looked at those women and then woke me up for sex. I feel cheated on as I call it visual cheating on me. So you tell me, after all I have said, are you still going to tell me what he does is ok and normal? Like is said, I work out 4 to 5 days a week, losing weight and building muscle. He has never called me fat, but how can he tell me I’m sexy only when we Andrew having sex all the while his sexual desires and rete for women with huge butts, thick thighs, large breast and thinner wait line.m more fit and list weight since we first meet 8 years ago. So you tell me, what is his problem and mine?

    1. 454.1
      Buck25

      Feeling betrayed,
      Let me got this straight. You snoop through your guy’s cell phone, snoop through his social media pages, etc. and you’re angry because he changes his passwords to keep you from doing that? What are you, a wife, or a would-be investigator /CIA operative, or data-mining for the NSA? I don’t know where you got the idea that it is in any way acceptable for you to do that, or for him to do it to you (and I expect you would be outraged, if he were to do that).

      Simple solution. If that’s all the trust you have in your partner, then please, do both of you a favor, and LEAVE! As in NOW! Seriously! Your jealousy and insecurity, together with your continuing searching to validate it, is a helluva lot more likely to end your marriage, than his alleged “mental infidelity” (if in fact there is such a thing; I’ve never heard a man accuse a woman of that, and it isn’t because women never cheat, because we all know some most certainly do and that’s been admitted, gleefully even, right here in this thread!)

      Listen, your personal insecurity issues are your problem. No one can make you feel anything if you don’t let them. That is a creation of your own mind and your reactions, you own it, and it is not any man’s job to fix it. That’s up to you! What are you, some helpless little “victim”? No, you are not! You look like you say you do, and you’re as hot as you say you are in bed? Really?? Something tells me you don’t really believe that, or you’d have the confidence that goes with it, which includes the belief that he couldn’t do better than you, and if he tried, that would be his loss! That’s the attitude of a really confident woman. Instead, you’re in here whining and venting. I think you might want to fix yourself, before you try to “fix” your man.

  15. 455
    Ayla

    But then why are some men not satisfied by porn? Why must they ask other women who are not their girlfriend or wife for bikini, lingerie, or nude photos?

  16. 456
    maja

    Dear Evan, I see that for some reasons you are still back in time, although you are still young (don’t know your age but I see the photo). I am not a bittered woman who is going to complain that her man gazes at other women all the time. I would like to though point out some other things. Could you please give me an answer to the following question from your prospective: When are men going to be ready to accept the fact that women are exactly the same as men !???!! And why is it so painfull for you guys to accept that we women also are atractted by looks of men and that we also see good looking guys, with fabulous bodies and faces, just like you men see beautiful women. Why does is hurt so bad to accept that fact?? We women have to accept that our husbands/boyfriends are gazing at other women…so you guys should finally do that too…What kind of nonsence is that and discrimination against women ? I am an Oil&gas engineer, master in technical sciences, have two kids and a partner. Yesterday I went to the shop and there was a gourges salesman working there and yes, oh , yes, I gazed at his beautifully developed chest and deep blue/green eyes. Oh yes Evan, I noticed that for sure! When I was in my twenties I had a relationship for almost 5 years and than suddenly one night in the book store (while being with ny best friend) I was approached by a handsome guy who had fantastic body and fantastic face. he was the dream of every women. And guess what, it happend that two days later we ended up in bed, and I forgot my 5year relationship overnight. Yes, darling, we are also attracted by beauty, especially as we grow old and our libido gets stronger instead of weaker (as I read in one other text ,also very discriminative towards women!). And with all do respect to my current partner, I’m still having an affair, simply because my husband cannot give me what I need as a women. And you know, my dear Evan, why that is so, nobody knows. So when I read all this you wrote I can not helop of being indimited, as it is insulting my inteligence. Especially that men are showing off all the time by their “musculinity” ha ha , like if they gaze at other women standing nezt to their own fives, that means they are so cool and capable as men !! The funny and the sad side to it is that 85% of men are totally incapable sexually- not even that they would be able to get those other women into bed- but they also can not satisfy their own wifes !!! And all those talsk about “alpha male “-hahahahah !!! make me wanna puke!
    If you look back into the past , man have made this world according to their own standards, always keeping women at bay, always putting her down, forbidding her to think, forbidding her to have education, forbidding her to work, telling her what to think, telling her that she is one-dimensional creature, with no sexuality, no desire for variety for men, always beeing satisfied with what she has.
    Well, that’s not the true my darling… can’t be much more remote from the truth. You know , I can tell you what my famale friend addmited to me at one point in our lives: “THEY ALL CHEATED ON THEIR HUSBANDS/BOYFRIENDS”And you know why ??? Well, actually most of them including me, just because they needed a variety !! Remember that gorgeous guy I met in the book store. He was great, but I haven’t really fell in love at his personallity. I wanted sex with him, because my biology was telling me that sex would be great with that guy, and guess what- I was right !!!! I had the time of my life !
    Evan, you are a men, I understand, but please forget about mythical stories about women !!! We are completely the same as men. We dream about other men while in relationship, we fantasize about all kind of sex with one or more men !! We love doing all kind of things with men that you guys like to do with women. We too watch porn’s ..(although I found them boring after a while).. It is not only you men with needs ,,,WE TOO…ME TOO !!
    greetings

  17. 457
    Nadine Michel

    Getting a job isn’t natural, wearing pants isn’t natural, wearing deodorant, or trying to hold your farts in in public isn’t natural, hitting someone who stole your candy when you were a child felt natural yet somehow most adults in western society have no problem attempting to elevate themselves from these “natural” states and grow into a higher version of themselves. I find arguments like Evan’s to be degrading to men, as if men are incapable of impulse control and growth. Just because something is common doesn’t make it ok.

    A more nuanced argument would be to yes acknowledge that a lot of “men” can’t help but look at women, or cheat, or not contribute to the maintenance of a relationship or child-rearing, but to give such men a pass for these behaviors does a disservice to men and society as a whole.

    As women the world over no longer need men to be providers, which ironically is due in large part to 1) men cheating and leaving their wives destitute while he skips off with the hot secretary bc ya know biology so women have had to learn to take care of themselves and 2) bc many men leave their pregnant wives and girlfriends bc ya know relationships are heavy and men need to roam, so again women were forced to get jobs – women are now requiring that men bring something to the table other than a paycheck. Women want a partner, not some knuckle-dragging Neanderthal that she has to fake orgasms with bc his ego is so large he can’t see beyond his own reflection.

    Historically, men have hoarded wealth, power, status, and could get sex whenever they wanted (sometimes forcefully). If not compelled from an inner desire, they certainly weren’t compelled from any external pressures to be better men…nay better people. We are beginning to see a shift in the requirements of high-quality women in what they will accept from a man as a long term partner. Sure there are men who will rebel and keep going for the young, inexperienced, or low value women to satisfy their lustful natures but they will never experience real growth until they seek the higher path and eventually align themselves with a queen.

    In the meantime, us high-value women would never put up with a disrespectful man who uses biological excuses for his bad behaviors. We won’t tolerate cheating, disappearing acts, lack of intimacy or support. And since us high-value women take care of our bodies, enjoy life through our passions like travel and adventures we often get approached by younger, fit, handsome men who are tired of the selfie-obsessed dingbats of their generation, so when the mood strikes we have the ability to satisfy our sexual desires with physical gods should we so choose. Relationships no longer define high-value women, so being single is not viewed as some sort of punishment from the gods. We’d rather be single and aligned with our values, then be hitched to an anxiety-inducing dead weight. Of course, the best thing would be to be with an amazing forever partner, but settling for anything less is not an option.

    1. 457.1
      RustyLH

      The Gender Studies is strong in this one.

      Literally, everything you said is one sided, or flat out untrue. I don’t even know where to begin. The worst part is that you act as if women have zero culpability in the way things are, and also come across as if all men are bad, and all women are awesome. Most women are anything but awesome.

      I will simply say, learn to love men, and you might actually find one to love.

    2. 457.2
      Buck25

      “…knuckle-dragging Neanderthal, that she has to fake orgasms with”

      Nadine Michel,
      Really??? There’s a simple solution for the “knuckle-dragging Neanderthal” part: quit dating men like that…oh wait…you’re sooooo attracted to the type; what usually goes with them…not so much. Isn’t that about right? There are responsible men out there, but for some of you…”Oh no! No way! Too boring!” That’s what you get for doing exactly what you deride men for doing, thinking with your hormones and your genitalia, instead of with your real brain; you know, the rational one that resides in your cerebral cortex.

      As to faking orgasms, pardon me for laughing. Any mature, reasonably educated man knows when you’re doing that, every single time! Yes, really! For any man who wants to know, there are obvious clinical signs we can easily observe, which are present any time you have a real orgasm, and absent when you do not, so no matter how loudly you moan and scream, or how you move, we know. We aren’t quite as stupid as you imagine. Most of us would rather you didn’t fake it; the rest don’t care anyway.

      1. 457.2.1
        Emily, to

        Buck25,
        “As to faking orgasms, pardon me for laughing. Any mature, reasonably educated man knows when you’re doing that, every single time!”
        Sorry, but you don’t. No one does. Once after sex, when the guy got up to use the bathroom, I checked the condom he’d just thrown in the trash. I was very surprised to find out he hadn’t had an orgasm.

        1. RustyLH

          There are other signs…things that can’t be hidden, even with men. You were able to be fooled, likely because he flexed his muscles, mimicking the pulse from ejaculation, and with the condom on, you weren’t able to notice any indication of him actually having an actual orgasm. What I mean is, I have been told by some women that they can actually feel the sperm. How, I don’t know, I am not a woman, and so I wouldn’t know.

          But with women, yes there very much are some biological signs that you can detect. I am not sure I want to give them away, but yes, you can detect them. So much so that I would say that any man who can be fooled by her using her muscles to squeeze him, and using vocal indications to fake her orgasm…and man fooled by that alone, has never experienced many women actually having an orgasm, or they simply don’t know what to look for.

        2. Emily, to

          RustyLH
          “and man fooled by that alone, has never experienced many women actually having an orgasm, or they simply don’t know what to look for.”

          I’m telling you that you can be fooled. Both sexes can. You don’t know what someone else is experiencing physically, just as you don’t know what someone else is thinking, i.e. the Aziz Ansari story. He thought everything was fine but she was having one of the worst sexual experiences of her life. People say and do a lot of things “in the moment” …. sometimes because they feel pressured by the other person to have an orgasm, which of course has the opposite effect and is about as sexy as a root canal. Some people you’ll have a great time with. Some people you won’t. And vice versa. Some people will not have a good time with you sexually. Some will. As the saying goes, you can’t please everyone.

        3. Buck25

          @ RustyLH,

          Totally concur with that last. There are some completely involuntary reactions that a woman simply can’t fake. I’m not going to reveal those, but I can assure anyone that these are very real and easily noticed by a man; clinical signs are palpable, visual, or both. Doesn’t work only with a familiar partner(although it’s even more obvious there); I can tell with any woman, fairly easily. Sorry ladies, but even those of you who imagine you are very good at simulating orgasm, really aren’t, no matter how much you think you can do so by consciously contracting the muscles of your pelvic floor and your lower abs. That can be a learned skill, frequently accompanied by vocalizations, and so on: but what you’re simulating, are movements which you’re aware of as part of the sensation of having an orgasm. Some other completely involuntary muscular and other physiological reactions occur, as any woman approaches and reaches orgasm, and in the altered state of consciousness that occurs in a woman at that point, you are for the most part completely unaware of them, much less able to either conceal or simulate them.

          Trust Rusty and me on this one. We really DO know !

        4. Emily, to

          RustyLH,
          Also, if you’re studying a woman’s body to make sure she really did get off … yuck. How unsexy that is. That tells me you are either too hung up on whether you “did your job” (hint: it’s not your job) or aren’t really letting go and experiencing the moment.

        5. Emily, to

          RustyLH and Buck25,
          You two are missing the whole point of sex.

        6. Buck25

          “You two are missing the whole point of sex”.

          Ummm, Emily, I don’t think so. You see, we don’t have to “study a woman’s body”, to know if she came. We pick up the signs I’m talking about quite naturally; we can see and/or feel them in the natural course of doing what we do (and yes, that includes not only intercourse, but also manual or oral stimulation, or combination thereof). All a man need do, is simply know what they are. Given that, paying normal attention to a woman’s responses during sex (I don’t think you want us not to do that, do you?) is quite sufficient.

          P.S. Does it not occur to you that perhaps part of our pleasure in sex, is giving a woman pleasure as well? If we cheat you of that, we cheat ourselves. Those of us with some maturity and knowledge know that enlightened self-interest, as opposed to selfishness on our part, serves both you and us better (both in and out of the boudoir)

        7. RustyLH

          Emily, to

          No…it really isn’t something that you have to “study.” It’s actually pretty easy to see.

          Also, it is the fact that you are totally tuned into her, trying to please her, and experience her, that allows you to know…to not miss those involuntary responses.

          Look at it like this…not very long ago, movie theaters used those reel to reel projectors. For most feature length movies, it took two reels, which is why you would see the movie coming from one window at the beginning, and another at the end. Well, you had to know when to switch the movie from one projector, to the other, right?

          Well, there was a visual clue, a black circle at the top right of the movie, that told you when to start the 2nd projector, and a second flash that told you when to flip the switch that changed which projector was actually projecting.

          Once I learned that, I would often see it without even trying. For decades, I had watched movies and had never seen that black hole in the upper right or the movie. Most people watched many movies and never knew it was there. Once you know it’s there, you see it without even trying.

          It’s kind of like that. You aren’t distracted, trying to monitor her vital signs, or anything like that. It’s just something you see, now that you are aware what to look for.

          Does that scare you that some guys see behind the curtain? Don’t worry about it. I never fretted over a woman not having an actual orgasm, occasionally. It’s when I noticed that she wasn’t having them at all, that I worried, and I would just try different things, to see if I got a better response. If I didn’t, I would playfully pick her mind to see what she likes, that I was missing.

          I never told any of them that I knew when they did, or didn’t. No point in it. And you shouldn’t put any concern to it. Don’t you want a guy that is tuned in to you, trying to give you pleasure? That’s all it is, and some guys simply know what to look for. Seriously, don’t worry about it. It’s actually a good thing. And, if you have any lovers in your past, that were consistently better in bed than most guys, with it mostly being technique, it’s a good bet who knew when you did and did not have an orgasm.

        8. Emily, to

          Buck25,
          “P.S. Does it not occur to you that perhaps part of our pleasure in sex, is giving a woman pleasure as well?”
          I find men who say this often make sex into something goal-oriented, which takes the joy out of it. As in … it’s their GOAL or JOB to get the woman off and they are mostly focused on that. And if they don’t get her off, they feel they have failed. Can you not imagine how UNsexy it is for a woman to feel she has to respond in a certain way? It actually makes a woman clench up and feel uncomfortable.
          And most men — at least the ones I’ve been with — have been pretty considerate. It’s the rare man who’s wham bam. But there is being OVERconsiderate. Some focus on pleasuring the woman is fine. There should be focus on mutually pleasing each other. But “I’m about to give you the time of your life and make this into a production”? No thanks.

        9. Emily, to

          RustyLH,
          Don’t you want a guy that is tuned in to you, trying to give you pleasure?
          To an extent. But not one whose almost exclusive focus is to give me pleasure. We won’t be sexually compatible. I had one like that. It was the most uncomfortable sexual experience of my life and he probably didn’t have a good time, either. I was probably not responding in ways he thought I should or giving him enough praise. I don’t mean that sarcastically.
          ” And, if you have any lovers in your past, that were consistently better in bed than most guys, with it mostly being technique, it’s a good bet who knew when you did and did not have an orgasm.”
          It wasn’t technique that made them the better. A high level of attraction and their approach … they were bold/aggressive, no asking for permission. Orgasm had nothing to do with it. I really feel that, if a woman is not having orgasms with a particular guy, it’s her job to either … help herself along or say or do something obvious to show him how to help her along. Same with a guy. It’s not my “job” to get him off.

  18. 458
    Madeline

    Evan, I have become profoundly sad reading the comments on this page, and your response to them. Don’t you realize that the whole idea of men looking at other women is in the context of such a pervasive historical and often present objectification of women, of devaluing our humanity, dismissing our feelings and needs that we are hurt hurt hurt! You seem to be skimming happily on the surface, ignoring what our historical and even present situation is – lesser beings, not truly fully human in the minds of many men, things to be used, even worshiped, but often at a remove from the woman’s reality and needs. Yes, I enjoy being appreciated for my looks (so don’t try to trip me up on that), but discussions like this remind me all too heavily of the weight of oppression we have to endure to make other people happy. Is it really so hard to listen to our feelings and respect them?

    1. 458.1
      RustyLH

      Try to look at it from the other side. You women seem to be really bad at doing that, and always see yourselves as the victims. It wasn’t women who had to be in fear of being press ganged, just for walking down the street. It wasn’t women who were shamed into going to war with white feathers, and ended up being turned into hamburger as a result. Women celebrate women getting the vote as a triumph over the “patriarchy” but this just shows a lack of knowledge of our history. In the beginning of the country, the vast majority of men could not vote either. It was not until 1918 that all men over 21, and military men 19 and up, got the vote. In other words, men had to fight for the right to vote also. I love history, but I hate that people in power, use selective history to lie about the past, to herd people.

      Anyway, look at your post with a little bit of editing.

      Evan, I have become profoundly sad reading the comments on this page, and your response to them. Don’t you realize that the whole idea of women looking at other men is in the context of such a pervasive historical and often present objectification of men, of devaluing our humanity, dismissing our feelings and needs that we are hurt hurt hurt! You seem to be skimming happily on the surface, ignoring what our historical and even present situation is – lesser beings, not truly fully human in the minds of many women, things to be used for our resources, even worshiped if you are in the top 20%, but often removed from the man’s reality and needs. Yes, I enjoy being appreciated for my looks, accomplishments and ability to provide (so don’t try to trip me up on that), but discussions like this remind me all too heavily of the weight of oppression we have to endure to make other people happy. The sacrifices that we men alone, have had to bear the burden of, and are no longer appreciated for. Is it really so hard to listen to our feelings and respect them?

  19. 459
    RustyLH

    OK, I have read several posts of nothing but vitriol by women, on this subject. No nuance, not taking of any responsibility for any of this, etc…

    Well, one post did pique my interest, because the woman asked whether Marc thought it was like this in the past. Well, the easy answer is NO.

    What bothers me, is that her post, and so many other posts, put all the blame on men. One woman claimed NUANCE, but then went off on a one sided rant, which likely made her feel justified, but offered little to no truth regarding this subject.

    I watched a video that was meant to show the superiority of Islam, by showing how both Muslim and Western men treated both Muslim and Western women, on the street. They also noted how the women were dressed. They even approached men and asked them about how they treated the women. Both Western and Muslim men, as it turns out, had more respect for Muslim women, and less respect for western women. For western men, their level of respect varied, depending on how provocatively the women were dressed. Now, I am no fan of women, but when I saw this, I remember thinking how Muslim women dress basically the same way that Western women dressed…not in style, but in how much is covered. Women used to be covered from neck, to wrist, to their feet, causing men to get excited if they saw a women’s ankles, when she lifted her dress. Her ANKLES! Why? because he rarely if ever saw them. At the same time, men back then, showed respect to women in public. I remember thinking…is it really that simple?

    Jordan Peterson…no folks, he’s not far right. Speaking of that, what is up with every single conservative speaker being labeled Far Right? I now understand that it is simply a tactic to deplatform them.

    Anyway, in an interview, talking about the workplace, he noted the conflict…the way men are supposed to behave in a non-sexual way, for the sake of women, and yet women disregard men by dressing, and grooming in a manner that counteracts that. As it turns out, things like how make up is done, mimics how a woman looks when she is in her fertile time, which…wait for it…piques the sexual interest of men. Lips stick, for instance, mimics how a woman’s lips become darker…redder, when she is in her fertile time. Push up bras do the same. The way the make-up is applied around the eyes, does the same.

    Another point is how you women always bemoan how society had all these pressures on women, and then you claim the same was not true of men. False. Men also had societal pressures on them. More, in fact. Get married, have kids, hold down a good job, provide for your family, raise well behaved kids, don’t cheat on your wife, get a promotion at work, be strong, be stoic, be selfless, be willing to die for your country, know how to fix things, don’t be a lech, and the list goes on.

    Just like you, men have been liberated from those societal pressures. Well, you women celebrate your liberation from societal expectations, but moan about men also being liberated. Maybe part of that is because you don’t actually understand that men today, actually are liberated, and that men did have many societal expectations on them.

    You moan about how man treat you, and yet have no understanding that you are treated this way, because you created the problem. You want to be sexually liberated. Great…so, because men are far more willing to have casual sex, and even short term relationships with women they will never marry, there is now a serious sex imbalance. As a result, the higher on the SMV list a man is, the more easy sex he can now attain. The top 30% of men are having more sex than any group of men, in history. Thus, they no longer have to be nice, and they don’t have to settle down, until they really want to. Ironically, a recent study has shown that the millennials are having less sex, overall, than any similar group of young people, in recent history. I suspect that if they had surveyed older people, they would see that the problem now extends to them also. The reason being, the top 30% are having loads of sex, but the bottom 70% or men, and the bottom 30% of women, just aren’t getting laid like they used to. Once again, this is 100% caused by the way women want to sleep up, and men are willing to sleep down. I had a roommate who was in that top tier…looked similar to Tom Selleck, well hung, and owned a business. During the one year we were roommates, he slept with more women, than I have slept with in my whole life. Way more. He easily went over 100 in that one year.

    Your problem is math, ladies. You have created the problem. You want careers. Great…you go to college, and take high caliber jobs. Thus, less jobs for men. Women now earn more degrees than men. You want a man that is your equal, or better. The math isn’t there. More women with a degree than men with a degree.

    70% of you want to catch one of the top 30% of men. The math isn’t there. Most of you are going to lose out. You won’t “settle” for a man that is actually your peer. Not until you have had 300 sex partners, and 2 or 3 kids, and now want a guy who is more stable. You had your fun, and now you want Mr. Stable. Well, Mr. Stable…those guys who are in the middle somewhere…are often saying, No Thanks…now. They have opened their eyes to what is going on, and they are rejecting the idea of being the fallback plan.

    You hate traditional…or, more correctly, you want a man with certain traditional values, but reject the idea of YOU having the traditional values that men want. Men no longer have to behave…or more correctly, because so many of you are making yourselves sexually available to the top 30%, that top 30% that you want…even though most of you are not top 30%…that top 30% of men, do not have to behave anymore. The lower tiered men are more likely to behave, but you don’t want them. So, you will just have to wallow in the mess you created.

    1. 459.1
      RustyLH

      Now, I am no fan of women

      Was supposed to say that I am no fan of Islam, and how it treats women…

      Also…

      I remember thinking how Muslim women dress basically the same way that Western women dressed

      Was supposed to say, how Western women used to dress.

      Wish we could edit posts, until they have been read and approved.

  20. 460
    Lisa

    I totally agree with you Evan.
    So sick and tired of selfish whining women complaining about men, meaning: not accepting them.
    But if it’s the other way around, all hell breaks loose…
    They want a male “girlfriend” and have no clue what a man is all about.

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