Both Men and Women Prefer Dating Younger

Add this to the annals of studies that confirm things we already know anecdotally.

A piece in Time Magazine cites numbers from the Are You Interested Facebook app that concludes that, among 35,942 users ages 30 to 49, a woman was five times more likely to show interest in a man who was five years her junior, rather than one who was five years older.

Men’s preferences are shaped not just by looks but by fertility, which is why many have 35 as a cutoff.

Similarly, among 26,434 men ages 30 to 49, 42% wouldn’t even consider a woman if she was older than him. However, if contacted by an older woman, men wouldn’t necessarily turn her down. The data shows that a man is only 22% less likely to respond to an older woman than a younger woman if she initiates contact.

This is the exact same observation I make in Finding the One Online. Namely, that if you look at a typical 40 year old man’s search preferences, it will generally read 27-35. And if you look at a typical 40 year old woman’s search preferences, it’ll generally read 35-45. However, men’s preferences are shaped not just by looks but by fertility, which is why many have 35 as a cutoff. And while women will write 35-45, they will almost always prefer a man her age or younger.

There are WAY too many exceptions to this for us to fight about, so please, let’s not. Let’s just agree that women, like men, prefer dating younger, that men are receptive to emails from all sorts of women, and that both genders are equally driven by youth and beauty. The difference is that women also care about money, career, education and height, which makes their dating pools shrink proportionately.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Karmic Equation

    Hmmm…Very timely topic as I’ve recently decided to try online dating.

    Some initial experiences and thoughts.

    1) Even though my listed target ages are 38-53, men well below that target are contacting me. However, if I like a man’s picture, I respect the age preference listed in his profile, and if I see my age is outside their target, I move on. Are you saying I should ignore men’s stated preferences, Evan? That seems desperate.

    2) I only look at income if the guy is not great looking to determine whether or not how much he makes offsets his lack of looks. Lol. Does that make me shallow? To be fair to myself though, no guy has made enough money for me to deem him good looking if my initial thought was that he wasn’t. Now the curious thing to me is that a whole lot of not-so-good-looking men in their late 40s/50s are leaving their income unlisted, so my question is why are they leaving this important field blank? If they’re making good money, they could potentially become better looking in most women’s eyes. OTOH, if they have no income and aren’t good looking, then they may be doomed to perpetual disappointment in online dating, unless they’re willing to date women who are at or below their league in looks and/or older than their stated age preferences.

    3) I’m actually trying to date age-appropriately, but the men who’ve shown interest to me at age 45+, look mid-50’s to mid-60’s to me. So are they lying about their age? Or did they just age badly? So in additon to lying about height and probably income (if listed), they’re lying about their age, too? And trying to date younger and out of their league?

    4) Curiously, I’ve garnered 0% interest in men at age 40-45. It’s like I don’t exist. Could be because they’ve only filtered to below their ages so I don’t show up in their search? Should I lie about my age to get into their searches? Not sure that sits well with my desire for honesty in a partner if I can’t exhibit it myself.

    5) I’m just under 5 ft. I’ve had a few dates with men stating they’re 5-7 to 6-6. It seems that the under-6-ft guys are definitely adding several inches to their height. The 5-7 guy was probably 5-4. The 5-9 guy was 5-7. The 6-6 guy was definitely 6-6. So now I do mental calcs to men’s heights and subtract a few inches from their listed height if they’re under 6-ft. Why is this important? I know it shouldn’t matter, but I don’t find the proportions of a man at 5-4 to be appealing. So now I’m not considering guys under 6′, because he’s probably really 5-9, which I do find appealing.

    6) So men with average to sub-par looks aren’t listing their income, which could potentially offset their lack of looks or age, are sending me generic cut & paste intro messages, which shows me they really didn’t bother reading my profile. I feel both sorry and exasperated by these men. They need to know their league and/or up their online game if they want to play out of their league.

    7) Now, OTOH, the few good-looking men my age whom I find attractive aren’t finding me attractive, possibly because of my age and more likely because THEY are looking to date attractive women in their 20’s and 30’s, because they can. So that leaves me the “cubs” (23-35) looking for cougars. I can’t say it’s a hardship filtering through them to find the ones worth getting to know. I’m not looking for a “relationship” but “fun” so this works for me. So the “free sites” are alright by me. But if a woman is serious about marriage and family, I don’t know if the free sites are conducive for that. I have two friends who met and married through their dates on Match. So assuming the women here are serious about relationships, she has to pay to find it. For men, they can find it on both free and paid sites.

  2. 2
    Karmic Equation

    Forgot to add this:
     
    Conclusion — My opinions only —

    -Free or paid (“any”) online dating is a boon for good looking men of all ages looking for sex
    -Any online dating is a boon for good looking women in their 20s, perhaps even in her early 30s
    -Any online dating is good for average-looking men making good money.
    -Any Online dating will be a struggle for the average-looking, low-income man looking for either sex or a relationship
    -Women in their 30s and above, or average-looking women in general, who are looking for relationships or marriage, will probably need to use paid dating sites to achieve that goal. I don’t see how the free ones will help, especially if her clock is ticking.

  3. 3
    Julia

    When I was online, I wanted nothing to do with men under the age of 29 (at the age of 31) and found myself regularly messaging men 5-10 years older than me. For me it was about maturity rather than looks. Men in their 20s are rarely in the right place to get into a serious relationship. So I am an exception, I guess.

  4. 4
    Julia

    My own experience with paid vs. non-paid sites. As a woman who dated online at age 30 and 31 and attractive, I found the free sites were goldmines and the paid sites were full of no-follow up. I used OKCupid and eHarmony, I never tried Match because it seemed like Match was full of men who were also on OKCupid, why pay when you can meet them for free. I would say all the men I met were probably relationship oriented. I only went out with successful professionals. I met lots of doctors, men in finance and finally my boyfriend of the last 10 months, an ivy league lawyer on the free site. I think OKCupid is better in urban areas and tends to attract a younger, hip, liberal demographic than the other sites as a whole.
     
    I think the best advice is to try everything but do it well. If you aren’t messaging the men you want to talk to, don’t expect them to find you. You have to be proactive to be noticed online.

    1. 4.1
      Beglin

      True love they say is hard to find.

      1. 4.1.1
        james

        Handsome early 40s, look 10 years younger, fit etc, desire wife 10 years younger, never had children, would like someday. 
        Fertility is an issue for me.
         

  5. 5
    Jadeite

    Karmic Equation (2):  I’d beg to defer with the following:  Women in their 30s and above, or average-looking women in general, who are looking for relationships or marriage, will probably need to use paid dating sites to achieve that goal. I don’t see how the free ones will help, especially if her clock is ticking.
    I’m 44 (told often I can easily pass for 35) and started internet dating 2 years ago.  I stopped a few months back.  I could have dated myself into exhaustion on the free sites.  Before the 14 year rule was implemented on POF, OKC, and sometimes Match, I had guys 25-28 contacting me almost every day, although it was rare that I would return an email from someone that young or even younger than 35.  My general dating preference was men in their 40’s-early 50’s.  But then again, my clock hasn’t been ticking for years.  And my goal was to meet new people and see if we meshed (with relationship being my purpose).  I actually kept a spreadsheet at one point about a year back and determined that to meet just two-three people I was even remotely interested in dating more than once, I would have to sift through about 130 emails and meet about 15-20 people.  I finally decided that I would have to get out in the big bad world and meet people so I deleted all my profiles.
    So far, the big bad world is working waaay better.

    1. 5.1
      UrWrong

      Clocks ticking have nothing to do with marriage.

  6. 6
    Yogagurl

    I am sorry. I cannot believe we are the same in this regard. Yes, both sexes like health and attractiveness and vitality…yes. But I do not believe we are the same in our drive for them.
    I feel women are much more tolerant of age issues then men.  Maybe a woman would rather have younger but if she finds a man she likes who is older she will “deal” with the age issues much more compassionately than a man.
    Why do I think this?  Well the stats in the article show it.  Many more men have a cut off younger, a hard cutt off, where the women will go older. 
    This is one thing I do not like about males. In general I like men but not on this issue. They are not loving when it comes to aging.
    They are also “aging hypocrites” where they feel they are great at whatever age they are at but will often reject women their same age even if the womean is great is as well.

    1. 6.1
      RustyLH

      Yogagurl,

      I am like most men, I prefer women younger than I am. I did, when I was younger…like most men, open up to dating older women. But I had no long term interest. I did carry on a relationship with a woman 9 years older than me when I was 28 and she was 37. She was OLD!!! Hot, but old. Now, I say that tongue in cheek because for me, and I believe it is likely true for most men, what is old to us is relative. I am 50. So now, a 37 year old is a young hottie to me. When I was in my teens, I wanted a girl within a couple of years of m age. I didn’t care if it was older or younger, but face it, when you are in your teens you look good. There are no real age issues at that age when looking for someone within just a few years.

      In my twenties, especially early twenties, I preferred close to my age, but would date much older. But I emphasize the word DATE. As I started hitting mid to mid late 20’s, I noticed how hot the girls in their late teens to early 20s looked. So I was open to dating pretty much down to 18. From there, my primary focus has been women my age to about 12 years younger, and it has locked in that way.

      That said, I am now talking to a 27 year old Brazilian girl, ex-model. How did I meet her? Not online Well, we talk on facebook right now but we were introduced by a Brazilian lady at my church. We both now know that she did not know how old I was…thinking I am much younger. The reward for working nights most of my career in the Navy. I have zero wrinkles and good even skin. Truthfully, I wear a beard so that I appear more my age, with the white hair. Even my hands do not look that old. I really do think it was not being a sun seeker that helped me, plus not smoking, doing drugs, or drinking much alcohol. When she told me she was 27 I was disappointed. I was hoping she was mid to late 30s, not late 20s. i told her my age. She was incredulous. Couldn’t believe I was 50. We both agreed that our match maker, a mutual friend, likely does not know how old I am. I told her we could just be friends, but she was emphatic that my age was not a problem. So we continue to talk. I don’t expect anything to come of this, but then, who knows.

      Anyway, i will agree with you to an extent…yes most of us men just aren’t open to dating women who are older than us. Sorry…you are right…it is crappy of us, and yet, I have no desire to do anything about that. I prefer women my age or younger. I guess I feel like I make so many other compromises that this is the one thing I am not. And at the same time, I feel there are things people can easily alter when it comes to finding a mate, but there are other things that aren’t going to be as easily changed. This is one of them. In some ways I wish I could flip a switch. Do you know how many sugar momma types contact me? Hundreds each year. Women making big money. But I don’t feel it. It would not be fair of me to even answer one of those emails because I just don’t feel it. It’s not really any different than the way you women feel when a man who you feel to be way too old, tries to contact you. I know how you women look at it. You saw “eeeww” and delete his email. Well our curse as men…most of us, is that we feel that way about women who are just a bit older. Again, I will admit that I only feel that when thinking of long term.

      People are stubborn. I don’t see this impasse going away. I see a lot of people remaining single for the rest of their lives

  7. 7
    Karmic Equation

    @Jadeite,
     
    I don’t think we differ at all in terms of prospects in the cub-range.
     
    In fact you made my point. The 40 and 50 year olds we both wish to meet for relationships we need to meet other than on free online dating sites (unless you’re saying you were getting the same results with the paid sites?). We’ve just chosen different routes to solve the problem. You’ve decided to give up online dating to date IRL, and I’ve decided to give up serious relationships and take advantage of what online dating does offer 😉

  8. 8
    Chance

    @Karmic Equation
    “Now the curious thing to me is that a whole lot of not-so-good-looking men in their late 40s/50s are leaving their income unlisted, so my question is why are they leaving this important field blank?”
     
    Interesting.  When I was dating online, I left my income blank because I was afraid that listing it would attract the wrong kind of women (not that I’m wealthy or anything).  I never would have guessed that there are women out there who figure that if a guy doesn’t list his income, he must not make much money.  I guess my strategy worked, and I was satisfied with the results I had online anyways.
     
    “Curiously, I’ve garnered 0% interest in men at age 40-45.”
    Nothing to be curious about there.  That’s pretty much how it works.  A successful, decent-looking guy in his early-40s is going to have his pick of the litter…. which would be a younger woman.
     
    “Should I lie about my age to get into their searches? Not sure that sits well with my desire for honesty in a partner if I can’t exhibit it myself.”
     
    I’ve read your posts before, and you seem like a smart woman.  So, I think you know the answer to that question.  Think about how stupid and desperate the guys that lie about the height/income look.  Besides, whether you show up in their searches or not isn’t really relevant.  Guys will message anyone they are interested in, and even quite a few women that they’re not really interested in.  If a guy in his late 30s/early 40s wanted a woman in her mid-late 40s, he’d message her… and he would make sure his search criteria captures that.
    “So men with average to sub-par looks aren’t listing their income, which could potentially offset their lack of looks or age, are sending me generic cut & paste intro messages, which shows me they really didn’t bother reading my profile. I feel both sorry and exasperated by these men. They need to know their league and/or up their online game if they want to play out of their league.
    …Now, OTOH, the few good-looking men my age whom I find attractive aren’t finding me attractive, possibly because of my age and more likely because THEY are looking to date attractive women in their 20′s and 30′s, because they can”
     
    I have this theory, that with more and more people dating online and sending messages to one another, that it is becoming an increasingly efficient market.  That is, I believe it is becoming harder and harder to really date out of your league (say, in contrast to the way you could amongst a circle of acquaintances where the options are much fewer).  People may have expectations that are out-of-whack at first, but that should quickly fall back into equilibrium once they experience enough evidence that shows the people they’re interested in aren’t interested in them. 

  9. 9
    JB

    Just remember ladies men will always email, date, and “do” older women if they’re attractive for “snicks & giggles” but 99% of the time they will have serious relationships and/or marry women their own age or younger. So don’t take the fact that you get emails from much younger men to mean anything. Some men especially online noobs or under 35 will email every women they find attractive no matter what the age is or what they say they want. They don’t know any better.
    At 49 I usually email 5 yrs down or up as they are the ones more likely to respond and rarely go outside of the range. Lets face it, everyone likes younger but everyone is “younger” to someone older….LOL

    1. 9.1
      Pat

      You do realize that the only man you are qualified to speak on behalf of is yourself, right?

      1. 9.1.1
        ToraBora

        Especially with such poor grammar.

  10. 10
    Henriette

    I think there’s a certain level of flattery that comes for women when a guy 5 years her junior is interested in her.  As we’ve already established, even if you’re a smart, funny, cute 37 year-old woman, there are heaps of smart, funny, cute 32 year-old women from whom a 32 year-old man could pick.  I imagine that there’s also a level of flattery felt by men when they get the interest of a younger woman.
     
    As mentioned in various other threads, it does seem that the average 55 year-old woman will be in better physical condition than the average 55 year-old man.   When I look online at the over-40 set, it appears that women understand the importance of a good profile picture, of going to the gym, of keeping clothes and hairstyle somewhat current and flattering.  I’m amazed by how many over-40 dudes seem to let it all go to the dogs.   Most 55 year-old men I see online appear a good 5 – 10 years older than the average 55 year-old woman.   I know that males are said to be the more visually-aroused sex, but Come On, Fellows!  Women DO care about the packaging at least a little bit.
     
     

    1. 10.1
      Tim

       Women DO care about the packaging at least a little bit.

      They do more than men actually and the comments section on some of the articles are a testament.

      As for above 40 men letting themselves go. The thing is beyond a certain age, mens looks are rarely gonna be enough to get womens attention. It has always been the status of older men that made them acceptable to women. Exercising and keeping fit is usually not enough for women when your face has aged.

      Women, on the other hand, can be old (as old as 60) overweight, low maintenance, etc and still get young fit looking dudes off dating sites. Have fun being a woman.
        

      1. 10.1.1
        Henriette

        I’m not sure where you get the impression that old, overweight, low maintenance women can still get young, fit men on dating sites, @Tim.  If the comments from various men on this blog are to believed, older and unattractive women will only receive one of two responses:  1. disdain 2. quick sex with no commitment, affection or even respect attached. 
         
        Why would any woman “have fun” with that?

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @Henriette

          “If the comments from various men on this blog are to believed, older and unattractive women will only receive one of two responses: 1. disdain 2. quick sex with no commitment, affection or even respect attached. ”

          Response number 2 is holds in general when a guy is significantly younger than a woman. It is all about low-hanging fruit sex and living out some porn-induced fantasy. Men are opportunists when it comes to easy sex. I can assure you that no younger woman is dating an older man for low-hanging fruit sex. It is all about his provisioning ability.

        2. No Name To Give

          The younger guys seem so surprised when the older gal isn’t interested in being their low hanging fruit. Go figure.

        3. Emily, the original

          YAG,
          “I can assure you that no younger woman is dating an older man for low-hanging fruit sex. It is all about his provisioning ability.”
          But for her it is low-hanging fruit because an older man is easy to land and she doesn’t want him sexually. A “reach” man is a man her age who is really hot. You keep mentioning younger women and older men. That is not a pairing I remember seeing often if at all when I was young. We were all after the male hotties our own age.

        4. RustyLH

          @Emily, the original
          “I can assure you that no younger woman is dating an older man for low-hanging fruit sex. It is all about his provisioning ability.”

          I see this theme constantly repeated here, as if men are unaware of this.  As if to say…nahnahnahnah..younger women don’t really want you, they want the younger guy, but will take you if you have money.    Men are fully aware of this.  It’s why men care so much about gaining financial status.  Men are fully aware that while they will often consider a woman who is unemployed, women rarely if ever consider an unemployed man.

          But at the same time, if no younger woman can actually be sexually attracted to an older men…or fully love and want an older man, should women never believe it when a younger man professes his love for her?  Or maybe…just maybe…you and the women you’ve known, don’t speak for all women?  Maybe, just like there are some younger men, who unlike the majority of their peers, actually prefer older women…maybe some younger women actually do prefer older men?  Now obviously, this will be the case more often if the older woman, or older man, is physically fit, and attractive.

          I would also point out that seeking a man for his ability to provide financial stability does not mean a younger woman cannot also find the older man to be attractive, or prevent her from loving him with all her heart.

          I was in the Navy for 20 years, and I saw some guys marry younger women from other countries, and it was very very clear that his ability to provide for her was her top priority.  However, nearly every one of those women I knew, went on to get degrees, and often end up making more money than their military husband.  Yet, they were still clearly in love with these men.

          So I guess the question is, who are you trying to convince?  Men aren’t stupid.  And men know whether or not they get any interest at all from younger women.  Somebody warning a 38 year old man that the 29 year old only wants him for his money, isn’t going to dissuade him anymore than a guy telling older women that the younger guy only wants her for easy sex.  If it’s working for them, they will keep doing it, and clearly it works, because 20% of marriages are between two people with more than a 5 year age gap, and a significant number of those have more than a 10 year age gap.  The majority of age gap marriages are still between an older man and younger woman.  I posted a link to that once before.  Seems people ignored it.  It is what it is.  If it’s working for them, older man or older woman, they aren’t going to stop just because we try to “enlighten” them.

        5. Emily, the original

          Rusty L,

          If it’s working for them, they will keep doing it, and clearly it works, because 20% of marriages are between two people with more than a 5 year age gap, and a significant number of those have more than a 10 year age gap.  The majority of age gap marriages are still between an older man and younger woman.  

          Evan did a whole post about this. Most marriages, even second marriage, are between people who are within a few years of each other in terms of age. And, personally, I really don’t consider up to 10 years that big of an age gap. It’s when you are getting into different generations that age becomes an issue.

          Yes, I think there are instances in which there is genuine love between a much younger women and older man and a much younger man and older woman, and I am speaking only from personal experience, but I can’t remember a single girlfriend when I was in my early to mid-20s who had interest in older men. Not one. And I personally remember only one time when i was in my mid 20s in which I found a man in his 40s wildly attractive and my interest would have been purely sexual. I didn’t give a shit how much money he made.

          I guess I can’t understand a man going after a women who he knows views his money as a #1 attractant. But if he’s ok with that, go for it. I pushed back in YAG’s comment because he was implying younger women prefer older men. Most don’t. There are of course, exceptions.

        6. RustyLH

          @Emily, the Original

          If he was referring to women preferring guys who are older, within 10 years or so, yes I think that’s true, though obviously not true of all women.  If he was referring to women preferring men old enough to be their dads, then no, that simply isn’t true, except for rare individuals.  I do think a young woman can develop that kind of preference, but I do think that is rare.  I have seen many people throughout my life, develop a preference that didn’t start with.

           

          I do know 3 girls who developed a strong preference for much older men.  It happened organically, and the result of a perfect storm.  That being that they were treated not so well by a string of guys their age, but then took a chance on an older guy, and he turned out to be one of the good guys, and treated her very well.  All 3 that I know, this is the case.  They had dated guys their age, and didn’t like they were treated.  Have since dated older guys, and noticed a huge difference in how they were treated.

          None of them are even close to ugly, or even plain, but neither are any of them going to win a model search competition.  One is close, however.  The other two, just very attractive ladies…just not over the top beautiful.   The one that is close to model good looking, is now mid 30s, and married to a guy 16 years older.  He is however, in exceptionally good shape.  Built like a linebacker.  I assure you there are many guys half his age who wouldn’t consider messing with him.  He is also good looking, but bald.

           

          She told me that he was very worried about that…worried about her caring about that, and was honest with her about that insecurity.  She said that it wasn’t an issue to her because of her past experiences.  She said that she previously had the guys with the great hair, the cool expensive cars, etc…, and they were all jerks, so she had changed what she was looking for.  We talked about that…how in a way, people are like those characters in role playing games, where you rolled dice to see what their attributes would be.

           

          Everybody wants that unicorn.  They want to find that one person who is perfect, but the unicorns don’t really exist.  So then we think, OK we will settle for less than perfect, but in reality, we have long lists of things we think we need from the other person, that still makes them unicorns.  They don’t exist.  What she had come to the realization of, was that she had been chasing unicorns.  Guys who had it all.  The problem she learned, is that the guys who seemed like they were close…had all the stereotypical qualities, were also very rare, and that as a result of so many women chasing after them, they weren’t good guys.

          For instance, how many young women would be star struck, and fall head over heals for their favorite celebrity, thinking that if he falls in love with her, and marries her, she will live happily ever after.  Really?  That isn’t even logical to expect that.  Many of those men marry super models, female pop stars, female actresses, etc.. and many cases, even those women aren’t enough to cause a happily ever after situation.  Hollywood is a cesspool of broken marriages.

           

          What she learned is what researchers have also learned.  For people who grow up having it too easy with the opposite sex, the good qualities of their personalities are usually under developed.  A person who had to work at being a good person to attract the opposite affect is different.  It isn’t fake because they had to work at it.  That makes it real…just like a guys muscles are real, when he spent hours in the gym, working to develop them.

        7. Emily, the original

          RustyL,
          If he was referring to women preferring guys who are older, within 10 years or so, yes I think that’s true, though obviously not true of all women. 
          I don’t know what he was referring to specifically, but I stand by words that most women prefer men within a few years of their own age — NOT within 10 years. I used that figure because commenters will say women prefer “older” men and then mention a woman who is married to a man 7 years older, which isn’t really that much older. But for many women, 10 years would be too many.  Ten is, personally for me, too many.  He’ll be retired 10 years earlier, he’ll more than likely be in a different place in terms of needing physical care 10 years earlier …
          I do know 3 girls who developed a strong preference for much older men.  
          I call it conscious dating. They weren’t getting what they wanted from the their first choice men and decided to try a different type, with good results

        8. RustyLH

          I prefer to use larger samples.  The age ranges women use on dating sites…the most common is 3 years younger, to 10 years older.

           

          We also have to differentiate between age of the women.  On dating sites, the very young girls, those between 18 and 23, are far more likely to prefer somebody within 3 years.  Women, as they get older, seem to not be so worried about it.

          I have been married twice.  First one, the woman was 12 years younger…the second, she was 7 years younger.  I’ve never had a problem finding women a good bit younger to date.  So I never understood the title of the thread here, that said women in their 30s didn’t want to date men in their 40’s.  I never had a problem attracting women in their 30’s.  I also had women in their 20’s who were very interested, but not as often as the women in their 30’s.

          Also, with both men, and women, I have noticed that if you ask them, they will give a list of what is ideal, but then when I watch them in their dating habits, they don’t adhere to those ideals at all.   I guess it’s like reality meeting fantasy.  I mean, if you ask many men, sure they would say that their preference would be a 23 year old woman, who is in good shape, is upbeat in her personality, but not hyper, and she would have her act together, and she would be more mature in her mind and actions.   But that’s a unicorn, so men don’t hold out for that.  If they did, they wouldn’t ever date.

        9. Emily, the original

          RustyL, 

          I mean, if you ask many men, sure they would say that their preference would be a 23 year old woman, who is in good shape, is upbeat in her personality, but not hyper, and she would have her act together, and she would be more mature in her mind and actions. 

          I can’t relate to that at all and most women my age probably can’t either. As I have aged, the image I have in my mind of someone I find appealing has aged with me. He’s not frozen in amber.

        10. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          You need to go back an re-read what I read.  In no way was I saying that younger women preferred older men to men their own age.  What I said is that when women go older, it is usually not for sex, but a man’s provisioning ability.  Here’s is what I wrote:

          I can assure you that no younger woman is dating an older man for low-hanging fruit sex. It is all about his provisioning ability.

          Younger men do in fact date older women primarily for low-hanging fruit sex or to fulfill some porn-induced fantasy.  Their musings are posted all over forums that cater to younger men on the Internet.  More often than not, the roles are reversed when a younger man dates an older woman.  She calls the shots, plans, and pays. and all he needs to be is DTF.  Now, just like younger women, I seriously doubt that a younger man would take a older woman over a peer-age or younger woman.  It just that by going older they get easy, cost and drama-free sex.  Most older women who date younger men know that score.

        11. Yet Another Guy

          @RustyLH

          I prefer to use larger samples.  The age ranges women use on dating sites…the most common is 3 years younger, to 10 years older.

          At my age, I am finding that women are more willing to date ten years younger to three years older than vice versa.  If I want to receive close to a 100% reply rate, all I need to do is write women who are at least three years older.

           

        12. Emily, the original

          YAG,
          “you need to go back an re-read what I read. In no way was I saying that younger women preferred older men to men their own age. What I said is that when women go older, it is usually not for sex, but a man’s provisioning ability”
          Actually, you’ve written several times on other posts about how younger women preferred to date older men. I don’t know how much older you meant, probably not considerably, but in my experience (which is, of course, limited) that’s not true. Now, it may become true when a woman looks to settle down, but not when she’s in her late teens to maybe mid-20s. And even when she’s looking to settle down, she’s still looking for men right around her own age.
          “It just that by going older they get easy, cost and drama-free sex.”
          Everything with you is about what people can get. It’s so transactional. It’s disturbing.

    2. 10.2
      Kath

      I agree with you Henriette. women do care about how a guy looks and his level of fitness.

      The guys talking about an old guys status being more important are from older generations where women were less finically empowered. Im in my 50s and don’t need or care about an old guys status. I care if he’s physically attractive to me, is fun to be around and treats me well. I have my own money, my own career , my own house and have the money to stay in great shape. Im open to guys my own age but guys in their 40s seem more interested in me

      1. 10.2.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @Kath

        I agree with you Henriette. women do care about how a guy looks and his level of fitness.

        You and I are in the same age cohort.  No one is saying that women do not care about how a guy looks or his level of fitness.  One could argue that women are even more selective than men when it comes to looks.  My experience with “WTF was she thinking?” moments on the dating sites bears that one out.   However, with most women, being attractive and fit are usually not enough while it is with most men.  Men usually have to have status in addition to being attractive and fit enough.  As Evan often states, women tend to want a better version of themselves.  For most men, a woman just has to pass the “I’d do her” test.  While I will not date an unemployed woman, a lot of men will if she is hot enough.

        With that said, there is a proper subset of women who will date a man if he has enough status.  Look at all of the unattractive older musicians who have very attractive spouses or girlfriends.  I do not know if there is an equivalent younger man/older woman dynamic.  I just do not see a younger man dating an older unattractive woman unless she is looking to be a sugar mama in a non-sexual relationship.

  11. 11
    Amy

    If everyone got their way, according to this article, no one would ever go out on any dates. Someone has to be older, or younger or the same age as the other person. 
    What I find perplexing is that many men my age and even 5-7 years older won’t consider me (I’m 55) but guys who are 45-48 for example, are often interested. It’s highly unpredictable, but having an open mind allows for more possibilities. One thing I struggle with is when I’ve dated older, like 60-62, the men seem really downcast and sort of worn out. It’s not fun to be around that energy on a first date. 

  12. 12
    John

    Karmic Equation,
    Normally I like your posts but you really are coming across as bitchy. This comment is offensive and absurd:
    “I feel both sorry and exasperated by these men. They need to know their league and/or up their online game if they want to play out of their league.”
    So because they aren’t great looking and prefer to keep their income private, you feel sorry for them? And then you have the attitude of “how dare someone who isn’t good looking and doesn’t have a high income contact me! ”
     
    That is seriously effed up. Just to bring you back to reality, here is another comment you made and my interpretation of it:
     “Curiously, I’ve garnered 0% interest in men at age 40-45. It’s like I don’t exist. Could be because they’ve only filtered to below their ages so I don’t show up in their search”
    Nice try , but they are indeed doing searches of women that are your age. They are just not finding you attractive enough to contact you.
     
    Looks as though your market and SMV is only worth ugly guys with little income since those are the only ones giving you attention. And the young bucks who are in their 20s? They are contacting all women in their 40s so don’t feel so special about that either.
     
     
     
     

    1. 12.1
      Tim

      This is not a good thing to say to a woman.

      Every woman is beautiful and deserves the best of men. There are no “leagues”  for women. No man is above any womans league.

      1. 12.1.1
        Pat

        Just as older men (40s and up) deserve 20 year olds.  Because old men don’t age as badly as women (you know, they never go bald or get beer guts or anything) and they are only attracted to youth and beauty, even if they don’t have the $$$ or the success.  It goes both ways – so give the MRA spiel a rest.

  13. 13
    Lily

    @Jadite #5
    “So far, the big bad world is working waaay better.” Do tell!  Tips?

  14. 14
    MsNeam

    Interesting…however, I’m the opposite. I’ve done quite a bit of online dating, and younger guys rarely appeal to me. I think it’s a maturity thing and where I am and want to be in life (at least in the next 5 years). I’m turning 30 this year, and I found it difficult to even talk to guys that were a year younger. But somehow, I am now in a very happy relationship with a guy who is exactly 2 years younger than I am. Funny how things turn out. 

  15. 15
    Alec

    As a twice-divorced, now happily married father, I agree with Amy. Honestly, when I was first divorced, I didn’t know what to expect. I had trouble finding a date being around so many women who are older or younger. I wasn’t attracted to any of them, and I didn’t even know where to start. It was just really hard to find someone right for me.

  16. 16
    kiki

    Karmik,
    I see the thought police is after you this time :-).
    I am really surpirsed how the male readers here explode against women; they take your preferences, observations, and (ok, that was mine) sometimes lame sense of humor as a personal offence, and seek to personally humiliate you with their responses.
    Shall we recommend to Evan a “women only” section to avoid being called bitches from total strangers?
     
     

  17. 17
    Rose

    I listen and observe carefully in real life for anyone man or woman who refers to women as bitches or the c word as ared flag to not to get involved with and get my energy well and truly away from them. Women are not bitches
     

  18. 18
    Little Wing

    I think some are failing to see how many times A DAY women on this site (including OP’s), post something along the lines of:
     
    Men are immature in dating
    Men are unrealistic in marriage
    Men are unfaithful in relationships
    Men only use women for sex
    Men don’t treat me well
    Men never call me back
    Men are the reason I am single
    Men are the reason I’m not married
    Men are the reason I am divorced
    Men are the reason I gave up
     
    Evan, who is a man, deals with it most patiently and diplomatically. 
     
    He has said it many times, but it still rings true… A few posts back when the OP was a guy, everyone applauded the advice and comments that were dished out. They were harsh but fair. Anytime the same is done to a woman’s OP or comment, you get stoned. Women say they want help and clarity, but it seems many only want acknowledgement, and not to be challenged in order to grow.
     
    We should be so lucky to have men taking the time to read and share their experiences and thoughts on this blog!
     
    Rather than taking on the role of ‘victim’, see if you can listen to what the men here are revealing, and use it to understand them better, and in turn, use it to help your relationships with men. Even if it’s to learn what to stay away from.
     
    If Evan kept this site ‘for women only’ would you learn anything? Would it expand your point of view? Would that mean Evan couldn’t comment either?
     
    How about if we keep the entire world ‘for women only’, would that make your life easier to deal with? Be careful what you wish for. 

  19. 19
    kiki

    Little Wing,
    even if there were no men (readers) on the blog, there would be a lot to learn.
    I find the stories and opinions of women fascinating. As for the opinion of men – Evan’s is always respectfully presented, even when he disagrees, and obviously, he is the reason we are all here.
     

  20. 20
    Skaramouche

    @John
     
    I rarely defend Karmic because 1) we are typically on opposite sides and 2) she doesn’t need it but I feel compelled to say something now.  Her arguments are generally well reasoned and have a point whether I like it or not and whether I agree with it or not.  Having read her other posts, I don’t think she meant some of the things you understood from her latest messages. When she said “I feel sorry for them”, I didn’t sense any outrage from her that she was being contacted by them.  I think she truly meant – “I feel sorry for them because they really don’t know what their market value is and they’re contacting women they’re never going to hear from”, etc.  I don’t think she is putting them down for the sake of it.  I see her point.  Every person brings something to the table, man or woman.  What you ask for in return has to be equal, more or less to what you are offering.  If you want more than what you are offering, you have to increase the value of your package or you are never going to get it, especially in the world of online dating which is rife with choice.  This is equally applicable to women who chase after men “out of their league”.  
     
    Coming from someone else, the comments may have been offensive.  But from Karmic, I really think they weren’t meant to be.

    1. 20.1
      Karmic Equation

      TY, Skaramouche 🙂

    2. 20.2
      Tim

       I didn’t sense any outrage from her that she was being contacted by them.  I think she truly meant – “I feel sorry for them because they really don’t know what their market value is and they’re contacting women they’re never going to hear from”, etc.  I don’t think she is putting them down for the sake of it.  I see her point.

       This is equally applicable to women who chase after men “out of their league”.  

      .

      Its not to women.

      Its different for women. Women don’t need to be good looking or anything special in order to have casual sex, flings and hook ups with hot, gorgeous, successful, tall, well built men who are great in bed. 

      The point Karmic was trying to make is that men need to realize that unless they are great looking and stand out in most ways, they should not expect women for casual relationships/sex and flings. She just wants to say that the burden to be attractive is and should be on men. But in no way she meant that women face the same constraints.  

      1. 20.2.1
        URWrong

        “Women don’t need to be good looking or anything special in order to have casual sex, flings and hook ups with hot, gorgeous, successful, tall, well built men who are great in bed.”

        What a load of crap. I’m tired of this old lie.

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