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It’s not because you’re a fool for believing that good men exist.
It’s not because he’s an evil human being hell-bent on destroying your self-esteem.
It’s not because you will not be able to survive without him. You’ve gone your entire life without him! I’m sure you’ll be fine once he’s gone.
The reason your heart gets broken each time a new guy disappears is because you are SURPRISED when he disappears.
Look at your life. Men disappearing is probably a semi-normal occurrence. Then why act so shocked and devastated when outcome is so predictable?
I’m not blaming you for having feelings. What I want to do is show you how to manage them — to protect yourself from continual heartbreak.
The reason your heart gets broken each time a new guy disappears is because you are SURPRISED when he disappears.
Men may still frustrate you, but I can make things easier, especially if you use online dating as a means to meet men. By mastering this medium and understanding male behavior, you can finally be in control of your own love life, and not a victim of disappearing men.
Yes, it really is that simple.
If you’ve ever been really hot for a new online dating prospect, you’re not alone.
You see a picture, you read a profile, and you start to get excited.
You write an email and he writes back.
Suddenly, you’re flirting like crazy, eagerly anticipating his every response.
There’s wit, there’s sexual innuendo, there’s instant talk about making plans.
Better yet, he seems sincere. He’s a good guy. He’s trying hard. Your phone calls are effortless and frequent. You remember that this is how dating is supposed to feel.
You plan your first date for Saturday night, and you have butterflies beforehand. You know that dates are rarely as promising as the buildup. But, sure enough, when he shows up, he’s as cute as his picture.
You have an amazing evening, filled with easy conversation and laughter. He’s chivalrous, interesting, attentive, and warm. You close the restaurant, end with a goodnight kiss, and a promise to do this again soon.
He texts you the next day to say he had fun, and instantly makes plans for the following Friday evening. You say yes.
He checks in during the week — a call here, an email there — not too needy, not too distant. He’s doing everything just right. It’s almost as if he’s reading your mind!
Friday night rolls around. You play mini-golf and grab two rounds of drinks at a nearby bar, after which you go back to your place and make out on the couch for an hour. In fact, you do a little more than that, but hold a little bit back. All in all, a great night.
He says good night and tells you he’ll call the next day.
But he doesn’t.
You go online and see that he’s checked his email.
You wait for his call, his email, his text. Nothing.
Another day goes by.
And another.
You check him out on the dating site again. He’s online RIGHT NOW and he still hasn’t called.
What the hell is wrong with this guy? He seemed so great, so perfect, so kind, so consistent.
How is he turning out to be like all the others?
If this story feels familiar to you, it’s because it’s familiar to EVERYONE.
And the reason it hurts so badly is simple: our expectations aren’t aligned with reality.
Sandy was a 45-year-old client living in rural Wisconsin. She had seen a really cute guy on Match.com and signed up for my Passion Course to figure out how to get his attention.
I wrote her profile, got her professional photos, and started our weekly coaching sessions. By the second week, the cute guy had already written to her. (This stuff is POWERFUL!)
Soon, they were bantering back and forth multiple times a day, and he started to plot their first date.
But there was a problem.
When the cute guy Googled Sandy’s hometown, he was surprised to learn that she lived 3 hours away. He knew he didn’t want to get into a long-distance relationship, and so, instead of trekking to go on a first date, he emailed Sandy to apologize and wish her well in her search for love.
Sandy was destroyed.
Even though she’d only exchanged a few emails, she’d gotten excited about this cute, successful, articulate, enthusiastic man.
If 9 times out of 10 (in real life), the special guy doesn’t turn out to be all that special, it may be smarter to reserve judgment for later.
She started to picture life with a partner.
She started to dream about this man saving her from a life of loneliness.
As a result of this wishful thinking, Sandy was as hurt by this man’s simple email as she would have been if they’d been dating and broken up.
I shared in Sandy’s pain, then informed her that she could respond in 1 of 2 ways:
1) She could be devastated that Mr. Right turned out to be Mr. Wrong. She could have that sick feeling in the pit of her stomach and lose sleep over how she’s going to replace him. Or…
2) She could realize that she’d never even MET this man. They’d never talked on the phone. They’d never met. They’d never slept together. They really didn’t have any relationship whatsoever. As a result, Sandy wasn’t “losing” anything; she never had anything to lose.
Which do you think is a healthier approach?
It’s not that Sandy was wrong to look at all the available signs and conclude that she had special connection with a special guy. Anyone in her right mind would draw the same conclusion.
It’s that, if 9 times out of 10 (in real life), the special guy doesn’t turn out to be all that special, it may be smarter to reserve judgment for later.
This is what I mean about adjusting your expectations to conform to reality.
I’ve had women tell me to chastise men to start following through more, to stop being so nice if they’re not ready for a relationship, to promise to call after having sex.
I hear you, and I agree that men could stand to do hundreds of things better to improve your relationships. However, as you know, I can no more stop men from being men than I can stop the earth from turning.
As such, your lesson, as a woman, is not to wish men acted another way, but to understand how they DO act and prepare yourself emotionally.
Because a man can be really interested in you, sleep with you, act like a future boyfriend for a few weeks, and be doing the EXACT SAME THING with another woman simultaneously.
Or he could seem like a great guy, make a great effort for you, and then realize, when it’s time to commit, that he’s just not ready for a commitment.
The point is that, by getting too excited about a promising dating prospect, you’re emotionally setting yourself up for heartbreak. And you don’t have to.
When you choose to be devastated by a man who is NOT your boyfriend, what you’re really doing is holding onto the loss of your fantasy. You’re not really mourning the loss of a guy you never had.
It’s the difference in feeling between losing a million dollars (devastating) vs. the feeling of NOT winning the lottery at all when you had 4 numbers (mildly irritating).
When you choose to be devastated by a man who is NOT your boyfriend, what you’re really doing is holding onto the loss of your fantasy.
You know when you CAN get excited? When the contract is signed, the ink is dry, and you know, without a doubt, that your dating prospect has become your BOYFRIEND.
Until then, each promising man is not actually “real.” He is merely hope, potential and fantasy.
Remembering this will save you a TREMENDOUS amount of trouble when you’re dating online. No longer will each flaky and disappointing man derail you. You’ll be able to bounce back and persevere instead of quitting. This is what’s going to pay off with a serious relationship in the long run.
Christina says
Maybe that’s why I enjoyed online dating so much. I had really low expectations. 🙂 I guess I figured that most guys would turn out to be flakes. I did get caught once or twice building air castles, but the sooner that can be nipped in the bud, the better.
So, when my now-fiance announced pretty early on that he wanted to be my boyfriend, I was in a state of very pleasant shock.
I think all of the fantasizing becomes a problem because so many of us have turned to online dating when we’re already desperate for a relationship. That can quickly lead to the hopes that the next guy will be “the one.”
Great post, as usual!
MysteeBee says
@Christina- that feeling of desperation that can lead people online can also sometimes make us accept people online that we wouldn’t if we were being more clear-headed! Just because a guy is into you doesn’t mean you have to pick him!
Laine says
Sandy’s predicament is a very different scenario than the one you outline, Evan, in your opening introduction, where the woman has gone on several great dates and the guy just disappears. I certainly don’t get nonplussed if a cyber guy who I have never met doesn’t follow through. I would certainly wonder though if a guy I had several great dates, and who was attentive with communication just went M.I.A without explanation. Maybe I am the exceptionto the rule but a man has never disappeared on me. Yet 🙂
BloggyDaddy says
I agree with Laine, #3. If several dates had occurred and he just disappears, I don’t think I could blame any woman for being more than just a little upset and disappointed. Realistically, sure, men pull disappearing acts all the time, but I don’t think it’s an unrealistic expectation for a woman to expect to at least hear something from a guy that spent several good dates with her instead of vanishing without any reasons. I think any normal guy or girl would be upset after that.
Normally I agree with the rest of what you said though in general terms. It’s so easy to get caught up in the communication that happens online and it frequently just drops to zero without warning. That comes with the territory and getting all worked up doesn’t do anyone any good. I think that kind of wisdom comes with time on these sites, once you realize that a lot of people act much differently online than they do in real life.
Blue says
I love this post, Evan. It goes along with another wonderful trainer who says, “If he isn’t in front of you, he isn’t real.”
Gina says
lol You got it!
Margo says
Well, can anyone tell me why the scumbags do this? Have several dates with a woman and just disappear?!
detha says
I have never had this happen to me when I was doing online dating, the disappearing act after few dates. But I do understand how devastating it can be for the woman who have had several dates with a guy, then he disappears.
starthrower68 says
I think part of the reason women find this behavior so troubling and confusing is when a guy disappears, the first thing that often crosses our minds is what did we do wrong? Ladies, if we’re well behaved and do the things Evan advises, then there’s nothing to question. His disappearing act is completely on him. The other good way to deal with this is to have a busy, fulfilling life in the first place so that if he does disappear, we just go back to business as usual without missing a beat.
Still Looking says
Margo @6 – You asked why men (scumbags) have several dates and then just disappear. Simple answer is he’s just not interested. If I’m not interested after one date I usually don’t give any explanation. However, after a second date I will always give a vague “I don’t feel the chemistry I was hoping for” explanation. Is your use of the word scumbag in reference to guys not giving an explanation or is it because guys lose interest?
Ruby says
I, too, see a big difference between what happened to Sandy, and the men who disappear after a few great dates. At least in Sandy’s case, the man had the courtesy to call her and explain. Yes, she was disappointed, but she hadn’t wasted much time on him, the problem was the distance (and not something about her), and maybe they wouldn’t have connected in person anyway.
But how can you not be disappointed when someone disappears after a few actual promising dates without a word? Online dating has given men so many choices, and there is so much anonymity in cyber-world, that some men feel they no longer have to show any consideration for another’s feelings. Common courtesy has all-too-often become common rudeness. It would be easier to dismiss if it happened much less frequently than it does.
EE says
The disappearing act hurts a bit more because it leaves you hanging while reality dawns. After a few promising dates, it is also going to hurt if he says “I am sorry, this just isn’t going to work for me” and then stops talking to you. The key is in not taking it personal either way. Be disappointed at the vanisher, but hey, if you were not exclusive yet anyway, you should still be trolling for leads and going on dates with other men also.
Margo says
@StillLooking #9, It would be because they don’t give an explanation. I had 3 dates with a man that I have known as a friend for 2 years. The chemistry was off the charts hot. I’ve even been in bed with him, but asked him to stop. He was the first one to RSVP for my birthday party, then didn’t show up. He spent the day with his friends instead. I got an apology two days after the party via email, not even a phone call. I accepted the apology a day later. Now it’s been a week since this happened and nothing from him. Nada. Poof. If you just scroll through this blog, you’ll see this seems to be fairly common as to how a lot of men treat women. Now do you understand my use of the word?
Karl R says
Margo asked: (#6)
“Well, can anyone tell me why the scumbags do this? Have several dates with a woman and just disappear?!”
Sure.
In 2008 I dated a woman whom I’d met through dancing. After dating for six weeks, she suddenly vanished. Several months later, she showed up again at another dance function. She apologized. She was very concerned that I may have been hurt by her actions.
This woman is not a scumbag. She’s a sweet, friendly, bright, outgoing person. She has several flaws (like her inability to maintain a healthy life/work balance), but she’s a genuinely good person.
People do this as an act of cowardice. When you break up with someone, they get hurt (or angry or argumentative). When dealing with that person face-to-face, you don’t feel good about yourself. You’ve been in their shoes before. But this time, you’re the “bad guy.”
In order to avoid feeling like a “bad guy,” some people try to avoid having that confrontation. They break up by text or email or voicemail. In previous generations they would write a “Dear John” letter. Or they simply disappear. They’re choosing the way out which is easiest for them. They’re not bad people, just cowardly ones.
starthrower68 said: (#8)
“when a guy disappears, the first thing that often crosses our minds is what did we do wrong?”
When that woman disappeared, I assumed that she just wasn’t that into me. I later found out that there were other (external) factors which contributed to her decision, but HJNTIY is a safe bet.
Ruby asked: (#10)
“But how can you not be disappointed when someone disappears after a few actual promising dates without a word?”
When that woman disappeared (after six weeks of dating), I was moderately irritated (at how she handled it), but not disappointed or hurt.
You just spelled out the difference between us. You had a few “promising” dates. I had six weeks of “good” dates, “fun” dates. The dates didn’t “promise” me anything.
The person you dated didn’t promise you a long-term relationship. The date you went on was incapable of making promises. Any promise that existed was the creation of your own mind. If you stop making promises to yourself (promises that you’re incapable of fulfilling), you’ll feel a lot less disappointment.
You don’t need to have those expectations in order to have a successful relationship.
Last Saturday a friend reminded me of something that happened 1 or 2 months after I started dating my fiancée. This friend asked me if things were getting serious between my girlfriend and me, and I replied, “I don’t think it’s going to end up being a long-term, serious relationship, but we’re enjoing each other’s company for now.”
Upon hearing that my friend thought, “Karl, you’re an idiot.” (And she was happy to point that out to me now that I’m engaged.)
At that time, my fiancée and I were physically intimate. She was having me spend the night several times per week. She was acting more like my girlfriend than any other woman in the previous 9 years.
But before we’d started dating, she told me that she wasn’t interested in having a serious relationship with me. For the first 2 months of the relationship, she introduced me to people as her “dance partner.” (Since I have over 100 regular and semi-regular dance partners, that’s hardly a term of distinction.)
I was spending the night 4-5 times per week. We were having sex 3 times per week. She clearly liked me and enjoyed being with me. But I also recognized that she had made no promises.
I didn’t need to create an unfounded expectation in order to make the relationship work. I could keep a realistic view of where things stood at that point in time, act like a boyfriend, and create something based off reality, not fantasy.
Expectations cause you pain when they’re not fulfilled. Expectations are not necessary to creating a permanent relationship. Why do you keep creating these expectations?
Marika says
Karl, thank you!! This is fantastic. Thank you, too, Marc for this great post.
I know all this logically, but it’s good for someone to put it out there so matter of fact & ‘no-nonsensely’. I’ve had these disappearing acts happen, and am about to go on a date tonight, so this is very timely and I’m going to keep things in perspective.
This is brilliant:
Expectations cause you pain when they’re not fulfilled. Expectations are not necessary to creating a permanent relationship. Why do youkeep creating these expectations?
Thanks again!
ad says
I think men and women are hardwired differently, and to tell a woman “not to be upset” when a guy disappears, is kind of like telling someone “to relax.” Can women help getting upset in these situations?
I couldn’t. Yes, I overattached. And was constantly disappointed. In the end I ended up with a man who never disappoints me, was always there when he said he would and did not disappear. But I really never got “beyond” the trait of hopefulness.
MysteeBee says
@Margo- that sounds like a very frustrating experience! Has this happened to you before?
There aren’t any good explanations for this, without knowing more, although even then there might not be any good explanations!
I know women (myself included) have disappeared on men before too…we can all be very contrary when it comes to dating.
Really, though, if he’s not showing up to your birthday party, he just wasn’t/isn’t that into you.
Ruby says
Karl #13
I get your point, but you are taking the word “promising” too literally. Of course, there is no actual verbal promise in the dates, but there is hope and encouragement of a potential relationship. And many of us feel disappointed, as well as irritated.
Where does the encouragement come from? From the other person. My friends and I have all dated men who have brought up future plans with us numerous times during the date, and then don’t follow through later on. As a result, I’ve learned to keep my expectations low in the early stages of dating. Have I changed my own mind about a man as I’ve gotten to know him better? Absolutely, that’s why I don’t get into a lot of “future” talk early on.
I also agree that people who disappear are cowardly. I do think that after 6 weeks of dating, the polite and thoughtful thing to do is to offer an explanation, even if it seems weak, rather than to simply vanish.
Bill says
What goes around comes around. Both sexes are as bad. If this happens to you than you should probably not do this to someone else.
Nicole says
Karl #13,
But it sounds like your now fiancee did exactly what a lot of women wished men would do. She was perfectly okay saying to your face what she wanted, and she articulated both to you and to other people.
Your point is great, but clearly, having someone who will come out and say, I’m not sure, but let’s enjoy this for now, is different from someone saying nothing at all…you didn’t have to worry about whether you were her boyfriend and you knew that at any point, she could have ended it and you wouldn’t have been left hanging…
Clearly it is harder for some people, of both genders, to be so rational and detached about all of this, even if you get it.
I think that to make this work, a lot of us have to fake it until we make it, and stay in the game. But this is like running in a race where you don’t know where the finish line is, and sometimes is looks as though it’s within reach and then suddenly it gets moved another 100 miles away.
Karl R says
Nicole said: (#18)
“it sounds like your now fiancee did exactly what a lot of women wished men would do. […] clearly, having someone who will come out and say, I’m not sure, but let’s enjoy this for now, is different from someone saying nothing at all…”
No it’s not different.
Have you ever started a relationship and been sure that you wanted to marry that person within the first few dates? Unless you’re dating some obsessive stalker, it’s far more likely that the person isn’t sure, and they’re just enjoying things while they figure out what they want.
When a person says nothing at all, just assume that they said, “I’m not sure where this is going to go, but let’s just have fun while we figure this out.” You’ll be right almost all of the time.
It’s convenient if my date clarifies where things stand, but I could safely guess that the woman who vanished after 6 weeks didn’t know what she wanted after week one. I was still assuming that was the case at week five. It’s certainly polite to verbally clarify things when you do make up your mind, but I think everyone on this blog is bright enough to figure out what the vanishing act means.
After a week of silence, I didn’t feel like I’d been left hanging. I felt like I’d been cut loose, and it was time to find another girlfriend.
Ruby said: (#16)
“My friends and I have all dated men who have brought up future plans with us numerous times during the date,”
I had one girlfriend freak out because she felt I was making “long-range future plans.” I had mentioned taking a walk through a particular neighborhood to see the Christmas lights … and I mentioned this during February.
In my mind, I wasn’t making a plan. I hadn’t paid money for a ticket. I hadn’t set aside a date. If a man’s plan doesn’t involve any effort on his part, then he’s just making conversation. He’s making a plan when he spends time, money or energy on it.
Nicole said: (#18)
“Clearly it is harder for some people, of both genders, to be so rational and detached about all of this, even if you get it.”
Until you “get it,” it’s impossible to be this rational and detached.
And when you do understand, you have to constantly remind yourself of it during the initial excitement of a new relationship.
But I’m capable of dating an amazing woman, having her vanish after six weeks, and walking away without disappointment (much less devastation). Would it be worth the effort to you to be able to save yourself that much pain?
Ruby said: (#16)
“I’ve learned to keep my expectations low in the early stages of dating.”
I learned the same thing. My date isn’t going to tell me that I’m setting my expectations too high (and if your date is explicitly trying to lower your future expectations, that’s a rather dismal sign).
Since I can’t count on the other person to limit my disappointment, then it’s up to me to do so. Blaming my date after the fact (even if she vanished after 6 weeks) is completely pointless.
Nissa says
I find myself on the same page as your girlfriend who freaked out because it sounded like you were making plans 10 months in advance. Since I don’t do that myself, I don’t really understand doing ‘future talk’ unless I’m ready to put down the cash. I’ve had it happen a few times and it always comes off as being too invested, too soon for it to have any actual connection to me as a person, vs my date’s fantasy of who they think I am.
It’s been my experience that men are more ‘romantic’ in the sense that they jump into relationships headfirst more often, while being more likely to leave it in the same way. To flip it around, wouldn’t a man like to have a woman get to know him a little before declaring them ‘a perfect fit’? And if she said something like that, wouldn’t the man then assume that she was making that kind of statement under false pretenses (ie, to flatter him for financial purposes)?
Inquiring minds want to know :-).
Chrissy says
^ This
starthrower68 says
@ Karl #13,
While I can appreciate you just guessed that the woman who disappeared on you just wasn’t that into you, not everybody is going to react the same way. It may not necessarily be right for a woman to assume she did something to scare a guy away, some women still assume it nonetheless.
I would also agree that its not so much expecting anything from a guy as it is being hopeful. Now if hope is being taken as expectation, what would you have us do? Evan is always telling women that we need to be open. We should not be hopeful? I need rules. Someone give me some rules. I don’t do well with this abstract stuff.
Evan Marc Katz says
Karl’s right. When I’m not here, just listen to him. Congratulations on your fiance, buddy. She’s lucky to get a guy who understands relationships as you do.
Melody says
Here’s how you do it. Enjoy the moment for what it is… just a moment. Be open to anything, and stop futurizing. Yes, it can be done, you just need to decide to do it.
When I met Craig, I was dating other guys too. I liked him, but I didn’t let myself get hung up on him. I loved and appreciated everything that happened as it unfolded. When he asked for the next date, I was pleased but didn’t expect anything more than a fun time. He asked me to be his girlfriend 3 or 4 weeks in, and I moved in 8 months later.
I still take it day by day and enjoy every moment. This is not hard to do.
And Karl, I love your posts. They should be required reading by every female who visits this blog. Talk about an education in men. Thank you.
Apple Jacks says
I’ve been reading this blog for a couple of weeks now, and I would like to ask Karl if you have a blog or anything?
Cat says
Karl said: (#19)
In my mind, I wasn’t making a plan. I hadn’t paid money for a ticket. I hadn’t set aside a date. If a man’s plan doesn’t involve any effort on his part, then he’s just making conversation. He’s making a plan when he spends time, money or energy on it.
Exactly! Thank you, Karl. When a guy I’m dating mentions wanting to take me on a weekend trip or to some expensive restaurant, I don’t take it seriously until he says he has reservations and has set a date. Until then, he’s just dreaming out loud, basically. Like you said, until “he spends time, money or energy on it” it’s not real.
Margo says
@Karl-13. Why are you asking why are people creating expectations?? In my case, it’s not that I created expectations. I grew to like someone as a result of spending time with them and I got hurt when they left. Karl, you are rationalizing things as if human beings are made of steel. We aren’t. If you grew to like the woman you talk about in post 13 that disappeared on you, how could you just be “mildly disappointed” and not hurt. You wouldn’t be denying your feelings, would you? If you are, that isn’t healthy.
starthrower68 says
The correct response to most of what a guy says is to just smile and nod then dismiss it. Until there is any action to back it up, it’s idle chatter.
CoolDora says
I LOVE this! “…smile and nod then dismiss it.” That is exactly what I do. Men are like, “Wow, you’re so cool and understanding.” Lol. I’ve just learned not to take them seriously until they’ve really shown me that they are serious.
helene says
I agree with starthrower – there seems to be rather contradictory advice going on here.
On the one hand we’re not supposted to “blame a new guy for previous guys bad behaviour” “expect him to earn our trust when he hasn’t done anything wrong” or “build protective walls.”
With each new guy we’re supposed to “start with a clean slate” and put out previous bad experiences and disappointments out of our minds. We’re supposed to “leave the door wide open, be smiling and have a welcome smell of cookies” floating out to meet him… In short we’re supposed to behave like someone who was young and naiive, unspoilt, optomistic and trusting, to create a welcoming environment for this new guy…
This is completely at odds with the advice to not get our hopes, up, EXPECT that 90% of men will disappear, not get excited about anything he says…. The optomistic unspoilt young girl WOULD be devastated and confused if a new guy who seemed keen then just vanished. Its only older, more cynical women who had zero expectations to start with who could take this in their stride.
So what’s it to be: cautious, self protective, low expectations and cynically unfazed when yet another guy disappears, or enthusiastic, welcoming, hopeful… and then inevitably disappointed when it comes crashing down. I’m afraid I’m not sure there’s a middle point here….?
Evan Marc Katz says
@Helene “The mark of a first-rate intelligence,” Scott Fitzgerald wrote, “is the ability to hold contradictory ideas in the mind at the same time and still function”.
Yes, you’re supposed to remain open and optimistic about each new man. No, you’re not supposed to have particularly high expectations, since they’re rarely met in real life. Seems to me that’s the ONLY way to function. Unless you’d rather be a negative pessimist on dates (which is not attractive) and get completely derailed when a guy isn’t into you (which is not healthy).
Fran says
There’s a saying that pretty much covers this: hope for the best, expect the worst. But in the case of dating, expect nothing and just SEE WHERE THINGS GO and take talk of holidays etc with a huge pinch of salt. I also find that a solid circle of girlfriends to bitch with helps a lot. That and having a job you love, plenty of friends, interests, etc.
Melody says
There’s no contradiction here, Helene. You go into every dating situation with an open mind. That does mean give the guy a chance, don’t compare him to other guys (especially not your exes), and don’t get your hopes up. Ninety-plus percent of men are not right for you. So you stay open to the possibility he is, yet you have the understanding that he’s likely not. You have fun, see what happens, and have no expectations of where it will go.
Angie says
I think it’s a bit rude after several dates to say nothing and just disappear, but I guess that’s the way it goes.
Getting all excited over a profile or an email seems dumb, though. I’ve met people on the internet who were NOTHING like their profile. I’ve also replied back because someone sent me a witty email and I hadn’t personally had time to look at their details yet, including location or whether or not they “hate” children, etc. (I have a bad habit of being impressed by witty emails/profiles, that I am realizing translates to nothing in reality, and attempting to not just respond because then guys start hinting at meeting up and I’m thinking “Maybe for friends”). I guess this can go both ways. Have women not done this as well?
helene says
Well alas, it seems not all of us can aspire to the first rate intelligence of which you speak…. You’ll have to forgive me I’m only a cardiologist.
Karl R says
starthrower68 said: (#20)
“It may not necessarily be right for a woman to assume she did something to scare a guy away, some women still assume it nonetheless.”
You give your child(ren) good advice. Children do not always follow their parents’ advice. If they choose not to, they face the consequences of that decision.
If you’re following Evan’s advice, you didn’t say or do anything to scare him away. If you choose to make erroneous assumptions, you’re going to torment yourself needlessly.
starthrower68 asked: (#20)
“Evan is always telling women that we need to be open. We should not be hopeful?”
Openness has to do with whether you seem approachable. This mannerism is under your control.
Your hope/expectation revolves around whether he’s going to ask you out again. That action is under his control.
I’m not understanding your question, because you’re seeing some connection between these two words that I’m not.
starthrower68 said: (#20)
“I need rules. Someone give me some rules.”
Until you’re exclusive, you can hope for the next date. If you’re hoping further ahead than that, you’re getting your hopes ahead of reality.
helene said: (#26)
“there seems to be rather contradictory advice going on here.”
Have you ever thought a man was Mr. Terrific after 3 or 4 dates, but a few months later you realized he was a jerk, so you dumped him?
You’re hoping that it will become a serious relationship after 3-4 dates, even though you haven’t decided yet whether he’s a keeper. That’s a contradictory attitude.
If you’re open and friendly to people in general (including those whom you’re not going to date), it’s not difficult to continue that habit with a potential boyfriend … even while recognizing that the odds of it working out are less than 5%.
helene said: (#26)
“The optomistic unspoilt young girl WOULD be devastated and confused if a new guy who seemed keen then just vanished. Its only older, more cynical women who had zero expectations to start with who could take this in their stride.”
I can act like I trust you … and I can do it without giving you my housekey or my credit card.
Start extrapolating that concept and you’ll eventually grasp how you can be open and still take setbacks in stride.
Margo asked: (#24)
“If you grew to like the woman you talk about in post 13 that disappeared on you, how could you just be ‘mildly disappointed’ and not hurt.”
I still like her. I know her even better now. But that doesn’t mean she’d make a good partner for me.
Would you want to have a lousy marriage with a terrific man? I’m thinking the “lousy marriage” part would quickly overwhelm the “terrific man” part.
Given how the dating ended between us, I concluded that I missed out (at most) on several months of a mediocre relationship with a great woman. And the thought of missing out on a mediocre relationship … well … it’s not particularly painful to me.
Apple Jacks, (#22)
No, I don’t have a blog.
starthrower68 says
Evan, while I have no argument with what you are saying, it’s easier said than done. I think Helene has some valid points and she says exactly what I’ve tried more than once to get across and have not been able to do. I understand that it not attractive to be a negative pessimist and not get completely derailed when a guy is not into me. I GET that. But there is a certain cognitive disconnect that goes along with this, which is tough to pull off. It’s almost like you have to split parts of yourself off.
Rani says
StarThrower68 – I get what you mean by the ‘cognitive disconnect’. Men are wired very differently from women, so whilst Karl and Evan are very communicative, with the best will in the world, I doubt that they’ll be able to fully explain that ‘cognitive disconnect’ because most men don’t feel that emotional vestige between the two ends or how to bridge the two ends in order to translate the two seemingly opposing concepts into a unified reality that empowers you to feel less disappointed at Mr Houdini when he pulls the disappearing act.
I am a woman and I have been where you are, so I understand exactly what you mean. I’ll share with you what I did to bridge the gap and create a cognitive connection between these two ends which I found profoundly successful and helpful. I practised it until I perfected it and I called it:
Dating Like a Man.
I called it that because I realised that that was what men did and it works for them. So it involves a very simply strategy:
Men who want to date you and you want to go on dates with – a line-up of possible dates, you have a calendar and use your time judiciously and allocate each date a time slot you prefer.
1. Go on the date, be polite, fun, exciting, intelligent, and engaging — but above all be yourself.
2. Whatever you do, you do not invest early [emotionally or otherwise] but do not be closed off or seem unemotionally unavailable.
3. Qualify each date and start the elimination process as to whom you may want to see again — be choosy, but be factually honest with yourself re compatibility, personality, chemistry etc.
4. Sit back and let them win you over — may the best man win, but bear in mind that of all the apples in your basket right now, none may be the right one and be prepared to do it again if none pans out.
5. Then restart the process again, except that the process never ended – just a new batch of new daters to have lunch, coffee, dinner etc with.
Once you learn to do this, you will feel more relaxed, you have options so you won’t be pouring all your energies into one man; and this in turn will make you incredibly attractive, alluring, mysterious, and almost enigmatic because your approach is laid-back and men love laid-back and confident women who don’t give them hassle nor place expectations on them particularly earlier on in the relationship. Men enjoy freedom and the knowledge that they are free to go and come as they wish. They love to pursue women who are confident, not clingy or needy – and because you have options, there won’t be much expectation and it wouldn’t bother you so much if one or two falls off the face of the earth — that alone will make you exude that confidence and self-reliance which only creates more attraction in the man’s mind!
Evan is right – until a man is your boyfriend, he is not real – Evan is right about that!
It is fun, it is relaxed, there are no expectations and you don’t get hung up on anyone of them if they choose to fall off the face of the earth — next! In all of these, be humane, polite, and kind.
Mika says
starthrower68,
Believe it or not, but the way you deal with your frustration and disappointment from dating men is a skill. It’s something that you can master. Give me at least one reason why you should feel miserable when some man bolted for no apparent reason that would benefit your emotional well-being. I am not saying that it’s easy to let go of your emotional/intellectual/physical attachments and you should not be feeling down when another man did not choose to be with you. I understand that you have to give it a time to grieve, but feel devastated …why? Why do you have to punish yourself by choosing to feel that way because another person couldn’t make you happy for whatever reason (not ready/HIJNITY/other issues) ?
Rule #1 — love yourself first, because you are special, like everybody else.
Rule #2 — the way you handle your frustration and disappointment is a skill and a choice. You can always choose a different way of handling it. Yes, it takes time, practice and first of all willingness to change.
Rule #3 — read Rules 1&3.
patty says
i know its hard but what Mika says its true.
Mika says
to the previous post please correct
Rule #3– read Rules #1 & 2.
Mika says
helene @29
I am also a physician and have come to realize that emotional intelligence does not correlate with an intellectual intelligence. As I already pointed out in my previous post, handling your emotions is a skill and a choice. As Evan always says and I totally agree with it — you can’t change men, so the only option you have — change yourself.
We tend to treat negative emotions as natural aspects of our mind over which we have no control. Taking them for granted, we ignore their destructive power and fail to understand the importance of challenging them. Ironically, we actually seem inclined to nurture and sustain them. Why focus so much on the effects of afflictive emotions?
Karl R says
helene said: (#29)
“Well alas, it seems not all of us can aspire to the first rate intelligence of which you speak…. You’ll have to forgive me I’m only a cardiologist.”
Let me give you an example that even a cardiologist can understand:
When you refer a pation to a CV surgeon for a coronary bypass, the surgeon stops the patient’s heart as part of the procedure.
So, are you sending the patient to surgeon to save him or kill him?
starthrower68 said: (#31)
“it’s easier said than done.”
That’s true of almost everything.
starthrower68 said: (#31)
“But there is a certain cognitive disconnect that goes along with this, which is tough to pull off.”
It’s easier that you might think, but that’s essentially correct.
starthrower68 says
@ Karl #20,
Karl, I’m impressed. You even disect my snark.
Sayanta says
I think it’s impossible to do as Evan and Karl suggest, although it makes sense on paper. Women are wired differently, it takes us longer to get over things. Telling me, for example, to behave as Karl did with the woman in his example would be similar to telling a man to stop checking out hot young things and wanting to bed them.
Ladies, we’re not going to ever stop getting devastated when men disappear. The only thing we can do is accept it (just like older men should accept that twentysomethings aren’t going to go out with them, unless they’re rock stars), and focus on finding a purpose other than relationship. This does NOT mean I’m advocating celibacy, but only that the key to stop STAYing heartbroken by men is to find a pursuit that takes attention away from them.
Melody says
We’re not slaves to our “wiring”. You can choose to stop attaching so quickly and being devastated when men disappear. You’re not giving yourself or our gender much credit. Using this to avoid relationships is a cop-out, so don’t go there. All you need to do is learn to manage your emotions more effectively.
Margo says
I think that Evan isn’t saying that it’s not going to hurt when a guy disappears, just that you should expect it as normal behavior for guys (these are your scumbags). This way, you can manage your expectations and won’t be completely devastated when it happens. That is the key.
With this guy that just poofed on me, who was/is a friend nonetheless, a few years back I would have had high hopes because of the things he was saying to me and been completely devasted by his actions. Now, after reading Evan’s blogs, and similiar blogs, and stories of how often men poof, I knew there was a 50/50 chance of his disappearing-that number is actually higher because of his severe emotional problems. In any case, was I still hurt? Yes, but definitely not as much as I could have been had I not realized that disappearing men are common these days. Is it right and decent what they do? No. However, it is what it is. Therefore, protect your heart people. I think that is really all Evan is saying. Correct me if I’m wrong Evan.
Evan Marc Katz says
You got it, Margo. You can’t change what guys do. You can only change your reaction to them. Are you going to let dating beat you? Or are you going to give each new guy a chance to show you why he’s worthy of your attention?
Angie says
“Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm” – Winston Churchill 🙂
Had this quote in my head the other day, but think it applies to this post. Not saying short-lived relationships/dating experiences etc. are “failures” b/c you can learn something from a “failure” and enjoy 90% of a “failure”… it’s just not “til death do us part”.
Helene, I agree with Evan – I’m fully optimistic about meeting people. Having enthusiasm doesn’t mean getting emotionally wrapped up. If you are feeling worn out, cynical, and sick of it, give yourself a break for a couple months until you are feeling refreshed.
Margo says
@Mika#34, no we don’t have to nurture and cleave onto the negative feelings. However, we are going to feel them.
@Karl #35, I disagree. It’s NOT easy, Karl. Again, if you like someone and they leave, it’s going to hurt and isn’t easy to get to a point where it doesn’t hurt. That is human nature to hurt when we get disappointed. God made us that way, and that won’t be changing. Anything else is denial.
To Karl and Mike, yes you can choose how to deal with that hurt. For instance, you can do things to help yourself get over it faster, but to say it’s not going to hurt when you liked that person on some level…Well, you’re not being honest with yourself.
Also, Karl please humor me: What is your point to Helene with the “heart procedure” example?
Apple Jacks says
Karl,
I see. I asked because you have very good insight and I am learning a lot from reading your posts.
starthrower68 says
Sayanta,
I tend to agree with you. Women are wired to be relational creatures and relationship-oriented. You are correct in that the best way to address the issue is to have a busy and fulfulling life and friends whom we can rely on for emotional support. Men are better able to function with the “disconnect” because they have a greater ability to comparmentalize.
Sassy says
True. And when a woman is not like this, she is relating more like a traditional man – with logic, suspicion, and compartmentalizing. There are a lot of men that are relationship oriented, and that is the one I go for. 🙂
starthrower68 says
@ Mika #32,
I see the assumption was made that I am devastated when I guy disappears even though I said no such thing. I personally am not devastated when a guy disappears because I am fully aware of 1, 2, and 3. But thanks anyway. Sorry abou the double post Evan,.
Jules says
I have a bit of a different take on this. While I agree with the rational argument that you should keep your expectations low, and not be surprised if a man (or woman) ditches you after a few dates, or a few weeks or whatever. I really like the excitement and anticipation of a new relationship. I like feeling optimistic. I have learned enough to not be surprised when it doesn’t work out, and yes, I am disappointed, and sad (and this is true even if I am the one end it). Not so much for the loss of a man who obviously wasn’t right for me, but for the loss of the potential that maybe this time I had found a lifelong partner.
The early part of a relationship–those first few dates and weeks and months–are exciting, and I’m not going to temper it in my mind just to avoid feeling disappointed. I do live according to that old saying that you can’t ever really feel the highs if you don’t feel the lows. I let myself feel both. It’s human.
Terri says
IMO dating was much easier “back in the days”. There were actually unwritten rules and men and women knew what to expect from each other. When the book “The Rules” came out, it was quite controversial but it provided a game plan to follow for those who were interested.
I have been happily married for a number of years and have two grown kids. Perhaps I sound pessimistic but I feel that in 2011, single men and women have so many options that it is hard to make a choice. Too many options!
I think the answer is – there is no answer. Men and women will have to blunder along, do their best and have other interests while looking for Ms. or Mr. Right.
I have an MS in Psychology and have worked with different types of people for over 25 years, having had a brick and mortar dating service for awhile. What my clients said they wanted and how they behaved were usually totally different. Many of them had no concept of what they were bringing to the table and wanted/expected perfection.
I think you can improve the way you write your online profile to entice more responses but you cannot change much about yourself – and who you basically are. You can lose or gain weight and upgrade your appearance but essentially, you are either lucky or not so lucky in love!
I wish you all Good Luck!
Sarah says
I think part of the problem is a lot of people (both men and women) will behave in such a way as to give the impression that they are more interested or committed than they truly are. This happens in many aspects of life, not just dating. Your best friend might act all enthusiastic about going on vacation to Europe with you, but then when you make noises about buying the plane tickets, the **** hits the fan and you realize it was just a bunch of hot air — a fantasy for the other person, not something s/he actually intended to follow through on.
I’ve been with guys who talked of love and commitment and marriage (yes, with me personally, not in a general sort of way) and would later completely disappear for no apparent reason. Why? I think they were very immature. They liked the idea of getting married someday, and I was the most likely candidate at the given moment, and they thought nothing of leading me on when they weren’t truly sincere.
What am I to learn from this? Even a guy who says all the right things (“yes, I’d love to be your boyfriend”) can’t necessarily be trusted. I’m tempted to think the only safe bet is to wait until he puts a big hard rock on your finger. He might not mind toying with your heart, but he won’t spend that kind of money unless he’s “real.” Perhaps experience has made me cynical. And YES women do this crap too!
Karl R says
Margo said: (#38)
“I knew there was a 50/50 chance of his disappearing-that number is actually higher because of his severe emotional problems. In any case, was I still hurt? Yes, but definitely not as much as I could have been had I not realized that disappearing men are common these days.”
“Therefore, protect your heart people. I think that is really all Evan is saying.”
I won’t speak for Evan, but that’s what I’m trying to say. Look at it like a continuum. Evan’s client Sandy is at one point. I’m at another. You (Margo) are somewhere between us. You want to reach a point where you find the pain of a breakup acceptable.
Margo said: (#38)
“to say it’s not going to hurt when you liked that person on some level…Well, you’re not being honest with yourself.”
I wouldn’t claim that I feel nothing under those circumstances, but describing the feeling as hurting or painful? Not even close. I can’t imagine describing it as being “devastated” as Sayanta did (#37).
It may partly be a choice of words. “Devastated” sounds more dramatic, and garners more sympathy than “somewhat bummed out.” But I’ve seen psychological studies that showed that our choice of words affects our perception of events … particularly in how we remember them after the fact.
Sayanta said: (#37)
“I think it’s impossible to do as Evan and Karl suggest, although it makes sense on paper. Women are wired differently, it takes us longer to get over things.”
If you’re convinced that something is impossible and refuse to attempt it, it will be impossible … for you.
In my experience, it was much easier than overcoming a phobia. It was more comparable to becoming able to laugh at myself instead of being embarassed or mortified during an awkward mishap.
If I remember correctly, you’ve previously described yourself as being a smart and strong woman. Bouncing back from stuff like this is a big part of inner strength. Maybe the biggest part.
Anita says
Evan, I’m wondering if Karl R is your protege? Better sign him up to be one of yours before he’s snatched away!!! =P
Karl R, are you a pseudo relationship coach or an understudy for Mr. Katz? =P Really like your comments.
I do want to add a little of my perspective on what Sayanta (#37) mentioned about how women are wired emotionally and your response. I do somewhat agree, Mr. R, from your words (#48) to Sayanta – If you’re convinced that something is impossible and refuse to attempt it, it will be impossible … for you.
I hate to generalise but here goes….
I guess it depends on the make up of the person whether they are more of an emotional creature or more the thinkers. As a general rule of thumb, women are often brought up to be in tuned to their feelings hence they will be more emotional. “We” may not compartmentalise as well as men do in some of the emotional department (mind you, it is very much dependent on the way you are brought up).
Now speaking in a non-gender biased, when the gates of our hearts are “shaken” or “broken through”, our emotions/feelings come flooding. Our heart often marches to its own rhythm as does our head. The trick is to be able to connect successfully the heart and the head, which will take some time to adjust to. (It is often difficult to see the trees from the woods if you are in some emotional spin.) One cannot live by heart or head alone. It either makes us too “overly dramatic” or cold/robotic. We are feeling and thinking creatures, after all. We can either be emotive thinkers or practical feelers (trying to be a smarty pants…. =P)
If you’re hurt or bummed in the process of dating/relationship, there is LIGHT at the end of the tunnel. The adage of “what doesn’t kill you, will make you stronger”. The skin of your heart will thicken to a point where if it is thrown away, your heart will be able to bounce right back. The thicker the skin will ensure the level of “bouncability” of your heart when thrown . (As is expressed in Karl R’s post #48)
In my round about way of saying, I believe it is okay to go through the moments of grief/sadness but do put it into perspective which is dependent on the depth/length of your relationship with the person in question.
Margo says
Well, the guy that poofed on me came back. I don’t know what he really wants, but oh well. I want to apologize to you men on here for using the word “scumbag” so loosely. There are MANY scumbags out there, but sometimes it’s my anger and disappointment that drives the use of that word.
This guy that came back isn’t a scumbag. Now, the guy I dated 3 years ago and has tried to come back each year, now he’s definitely a scumbag. I think the guy I was interested in is just confused, dosen’t know what he wants, might not be in a good place emotionally for a relationship. Something keeps drawing him to me, maybe it’s the friendship, dunno.
I do believe that if a guy really does disappear and doesn’t come back withint at least a week’s time, the lady is OWED a reason.
Josie says
I am so mad, upset, enraged, disappointed all at same time
We have been seeing each other since Feb, honestly not sure if it was dating…didn’t want to ask him.
How can you not heard from someone for whole of Eatser holiday, not even a full stop!
That only shows the lack of care, concern on the person..
I really cannot stand anyone who is this distant/cold and heartless
It may not be the best decision I have made but this time I follow my heart I already tolerate for 4 days already, everyday I kept myself busy not to think about it
At end of day can’t help but wonder how horrible is this person making me feel, If that is the case, best to say bye now , so I sent him a text tell him take care and bye
so by fifth day I said it and no reply on his part after bye.
I don’t know anymore
Karl R says
Margo said: (#50)
“I do believe that if a guy really does disappear and doesn’t come back withint at least a week’s time, the lady is OWED a reason.”
As long as you feel he is indebted to you, you are still connected to him. If he does not feel that he owes you an explanation, then that connection only goes one way.
Do you want to remain connected indefinitely (or permanently) to a man who does not want to date you? As long as you believe that he owes you, the existence of that connection is under his control. He can either refuse to give you an answer, or he can give you an answer that you find unsatisfactory.
Would you even be satisfied with the explanation? Most people don’t want to give an explanation that’s harsh. Most people don’t want to give an explanation that makes them appear to be the bad guy. (And the explanations get particularly convoluted when the person is trying to give you an explanation that fulfills both requirements.) Furthermore, you don’t want an explanation that’s harsh, or one that makes you appear to be the bad guy.
Do you really expect that you’re going to get a reason that’s the unedited truth?
When that woman vanished after six weeks of dating, I decided that she didn’t own me an explanation, because I didn’t want to remain tied to her. It was much easier to move on without that lingering connection.
You’re getting hung up on what’s right or wrong. I’m telling you that it’s not in your self-interest to require a reason. Assume that the person who disappeared wasn’t that into you. That’s enough of a reason, and it’s probably as accurate as the reason they would tell you.
TS says
I don’t think being mentally prepared for a man to disappear will reduce heartbreak if he does. The reason is that, to like someone, one has to be open to them, and if one’s open to them, then one gets attached, and if one gets attached, it hurts when that other person leaves. It doesn’t matter whether we’re talking a friendship, a dating relationship or the cat who came by for an ear scratch and a spot of milk, when the other person disappears, the heart breaks! Okay, in some instances it’s only a stress fracture or a severe bruising, but the pain of rejection is still there.
Trenia says
I agree with much of what you’re saying,but what’s problematic for me is what’s problematic with most dating advice, and it’s the assumption that the woman must placate and back peddle to make a dating relationship work. The assumption that “men can never change” implies that the woman must change or tweak her approach so that he’ll want her. I think what most women want is for a man to be a person of good character and integrity and be so in his dealings with us, regardless of whether or not it turns into something long-term. In short, be a grown up, plain and simple.
Karl R says
Trenia said: (#54)
“The assumption that ‘men can never change’ implies that the woman must change or tweak her approach so that he’ll want her.”
You’re misstating the assumption. The assumption is, “The only person I can change is myself.” It’s true whether you’re a man or a woman.
So if your current approach isn’t working, you can either continue the same unsuccessful approach (likely experiencing the same results), you can change yourself (in order to get different results), or you can say that the other person needs to change so it will work (and then wait an eternity while they choose not to change).
Evan and I didn’t get our relationships by saying women needed to change. We got our relationships by changing as necessary until we could get what we wanted.
And if the problem is the other person, you still can’t get them to change. You solve that problem by leaving and finding someone else.
Margo says
Well, Karl, “owed” was a bad choice of words. The “decent” thing to do when ending a relationship is to offer some explanation rather than pulling a disappearing act.
starthrower68 says
Margo,
I understand the spirit of what you are saying. It would be nice to get that closure. What I have found when a man disappears is that as long as I behaved well it doesn’t matter why he disappeared. If he wasn’t into me, had another woman, whatever, if he chooses to go then he needs to stay gone. I can get closure for myself. Yes, having a man offer some explanation is the decent thing to do, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Margo says
Thanks, Karl and Starthrower, @Karl, I’d like to know who did the heavy lifting in your relationship in terms of initiating contact, calling first, planning dates? For some reason, I get the feeling it was your fiancee.
Evan’s wife is an extroardinary woman for staying calm and collected when Evan was doing his once a week thing. I’m not that extroardinary. So, for the rest of us what do we say when someone has been MIA for a week or so, then reappears? Why are you back?
InsertPseudonymHere says
@Margo
Another is “Why did you go silent?” Your question is as good as saying “Go away.” If that is what you really feel, say that directly. If you want to work on the interaction, the former is better.
@Josie You sound pretty roughed up. I am sympathetic to your pain even as I point out your path into it and out of it is under your control. He has been inconsiderate, but he is not “making” you feel anything. How you feel about his behavior is on you. Until you acknowledge you own your pain and feelings and stop relying/allowing others to make them, I guarantee you will be tossed around again and again. Good luck
starthrower68 says
Unless he offers a good explanation (because I would not demand or expect one), has disappeared and then returns, it would be difficult for me to continue on. While he’s been doing whatever it is he’s been doing, I’ve accepted that there’s nothing there, moved on, and went about my life. Its difficult to do a complete reversal of that. I’m sure I will be told it shouldn’t be, but I don’t tend to mess around with these things.
AS says
Just reading through the threads and some great points made. I believe that it ultimately comes down to a couple of things…
When you do not get closure from any experience it often superficially intensifies and prolongs the process of getting over someone, so inevitably it’s going to hurt when someone just disappears, no explanation.
Secondly, I think women are more guilty of doing this then men, when you are dating someone you forget to live in and enjoy the present moment. You over analyse and rather than taking what a guy say’s at face value try to read too much into it. Add to that fantasies of being with this person in the future, dreaming about how things would be etc you then create false expectations. But note, you created them not him. So when the guy disappears you risk losing sight of actually what you had and start mourning over what you had plus what you wanted to have. In fact you could have saved yourself from some degree of heart ache if you just made a conscious effort to manage your own expectations and accept the present moment rather than looking beyond, even though it was really bad mannered of him to actually disappear without an explanation and I am not trying to take away from that.
Gem says
We women are great at getting ahead of ourselves. Maybe because we are more emotionally or relationally wired.
I think Evan’s advice that you can “hope” for the next date and nothing more while getting to know someone is very smart. Remember, we are checking them out to see if we even want them and to do that, we need to view them realistically and not place hopes and dreams on the initial chemistry and sweet things they may say.
The phrase “He’s not real until he’s your boyfriend” should be printed in bold letters and read daily while dating someone new to remind us. This statement is also why women shouldn’t sleep with a man until he’s their boyfriend. Sex confuses our thinking as well. Once our bodies are involved we want him to be what we hope, and it’s more difficult to see him realistically.
Karl R says
starthrower68 said: (#60)
“I’ve accepted that there’s nothing there, moved on, and went about my life. Its difficult to do a complete reversal of that. I’m sure I will be told it shouldn’t be,”
I’d say that doing a complete reversal would be a mistake.
Unless the person has an exceptionally good reason for being absent and incommunicado, you have learned something about them that affects the relationship going forward: you now know that under certain circumstances you can’t rely upon them to communicate with you.
That is who the person is. You can’t count on them to change. And it’s generally not an easy trait to live with.
Margo asked: (#58)
“Karl, I’d like to know who did the heavy lifting in your relationship in terms of initiating contact, calling first, planning dates?”
I did most of the initiating, asking and planning. (I checked with her, and that’s her recollection as well.)
SS says
Margo,
I hope I’m not being too rude, but I remember when you first started talking about this man, and a few things that you said seemed to raise a red flag, at least for me.
This is a man who told you that if he has sex with a woman too soon, he sees her differently and loses interest. While I know that a number of men might think this way, if a man I’m dating (or was dating) tells me this, it tells me a few things about him that I consider to be distasteful — especially if he’s the one that attempted or successfully initiated sex and then decides to “judge” me for it.
It seems that this is what he did to you.
In general, I believe in waiting until a guy is your boyfriend before sex, but since that didn’t happen (and no judgment on my part, BTW), I think that created the situation that Evan always talks about. Women often learn after the fact that a man wasn’t necessarily interested in a relationship simply because he showed interest in the early going. This is why he tells us to slow down and hold back on that level of intimacy so we can find out for sure if a man is actually interested in us versus just having sex with us.
I too can vouch for my husband doing all of the heavy lifting in the relationship early on… he always called first, planned dates, initiated contact… I never had to question anything in terms of his sincerity and he never “poofed.” And the best thing was, I just got to sit back and observe his actions to figure out exactly what his interest level was.
BeenThereDoneThat says
What about a guy who does the disappearing act and vanishes for 6 weeks and then reappears? I didn’t mind the disappearing act because, honestly, I wasn’t feeling it either and had decided it was better to end things; his disappearing told me that he felt the same. But now he is back and I’m still not interested. Do I owe HIM an explanation?
I feel that people sometimes just disappear. I also feel that sometimes giving a reason invites people to think its a negotiation.
Michael17 says
Trenia #54: The onus is on every single one of us, male or female, to change if we aren’t getting what we want. Otherwise we keep getting the same results, because the world isn’t going to change for our benefit. Sometimes “change” might mean walking away from those who aren’t giving us what we want more quickly than we have been doing in the past.
On a related note: I can tell you that women have self-defeating tendencies that guys who want to date successfully had better get, or else. The big thing is precisely your tendency to get ahead of yourselves. Many women put a lot of stock in this whole “first-date chemistry” thing, and it doesn’t serve anyone. Either you’re not giving someone who could be great for you a chance (“if I’m not feeling he could be the one for me after one date I’m never going to feel it”), or you are hooked on someone you don’t know all that well.
And yes, women do the disappearing act too! It sucks to have that done to you whether you are female or male.
Michael17 says
Sarah #47: Good point. Although by now I disagree with telling women that I want to be their boyfriend when I am still not really sure.
It’s something like interviewing. When I was looking for a position and I was going on interviews, I made it a point to be well-prepared, engaged, and *interested* when on that interview. I made the best impression I could, and this was whether I was sure I really wanted the job or not. It was in my best interest to do so. See as much as possible, I wanted to have the choice as to what job I would take. So my strategy was to get them interested, and then after I could assess how much I liked what they showed me.
I wonder if that is what is happening in this article. The guy probably was making an effort to make a strong impression, and THEN he was evaluating his feelings. He disappeared because, well, what was he going to tell her, after what he said and did those two dates. For the record, I think his disappearing was poor behavior on his part, but c’est la vie.
Denise says
I think this is a good analogy, but I also think it’s clear that people can easily take this too far. Making a good impression and working to make them think you really really want the job are different things. That employer is whittling down its pool of interviewees and needs to have an accurate understanding of who is really invested in the outcome and who is not. And women are doing the same.
People need to be true to their word.
Claudia says
Evan, you need to tell people that don’t want to see someone again to tell them SOMETHING. Disappearing is the most evil and cowardly thing someone can do to someone else. It just leaves the person hanging in mid air, probably with with false hopes and lowered self esteem. That sucks.
If I’m not into a guy I tell him that I don’t think we’re right for each other, or I’ve gone back to an old boyfriend. ANYTHING is better than nothing. Even a lie is better than nothing. Knowing that somone is not into you might be painful but in the end it’s freeing because it’s over, there’s nothing really to dwell on anymore. It’s over and you know it. But, if someone just disappears there can always be a question, or a worry that you did something wrong. It can be mind boggling.
I have always had more respect (I guess that’s the word) for a man who TOLD me it’s over rather than just disappear.
starthrower68 says
@ Been There #65,
If you want to give him an explanation as a matter of courtesy, then you can certainly do that. But you do not OWE him an explanation. While I realize that tit-for-tat does not a successful relationship bring, you were not the one to disappear. If he felt it was better to end things, it’s likely he’s got nothing else going on, so he thought he’d see if he could start something with you again. I wouldn’t put much, if any stock in it.
@ Michael17 #67,
So how do you resolve the conundrum of a woman keeping her interest in you close to the vest when you impress her? Because as we know, a woman may well be interested but if she’s smart, she’s not going to take a great first date too seriously knowing full well that it means nothing.
SS says
Claudia 68,
Evan, you need to tell people that don’t want to see someone again to tell them SOMETHING
Evan could say that, but it won’t stop people from disappearing and not saying anything. Nothing is going to make a man (or woman) change their behavior, and certainly not anything someone tells them to do. (Especially not a man, lol).
That’s why the best thing is simply to focus on how we can deal with such behavior if or when it happens, and find the healthiest way to move on.
Margo says
Claudia you seem really hurt and I sympathize.
Ok, after reading the last couple posts I’m confused. Did this guy I’m interested in disappear or not? Or did he disappear and come back? He missed a very important event in my life, gave me a reason and apologized. After that it was nada for a week, then contact.
Anita says
Just curious with the posters who shared their sad experiences about the “disappearing” or inconsistent men, have they officiated your relationship to boyfriend/girlfriend status? Have they professed to be “Yours Truly”?
If they haven’t, I guess what Evan’s blog would answer any queries about the guy in question.
Michael17 says
starthrower #69: Not sure what your question is. A woman lets on that she’s impressed, but she is smart, she keeps it to herself if she is smitten.
Many women do what appears to be the same thing I mentioned in my post #67. I’ve gone on first dates where, going by the woman’s behavior, I was “positive” the woman was into me. The conversation just flowed, with her clearly engaged and asking me lots of questions, and we even were holding hands. When I walked her to her car she offered to drive me to mine. But then I never saw her again, her decision not mine. This has happened more than once. Maybe in each case the girl was acting more interested than she really was, for the reason I mentioned in #67?
MilkyMae says
Michael17 #73, This may sound cheesy but her offer to drive you to your car after a first date is most likely an attempt to see what you are driving. Especially considering that she asked you lots of questions during the date. Baby seats or obnoxious bumper sticks may be red flags for her. The offer is not a positive or a negative.
SS says
Anita #72…
Exactly. That’s the whole point Evan is trying to make.
In my life, all of the “poofs” and disappearing acts came from men who NEVER EXPRESSED THAT WE WERE BOYFRIEND AND GIRLFRIEND. And yes, while it’s always disappointing when something that appears to be promising vanishes, the overall lesson I had to learn — and that Evan is teaching here — is that we never had anything to begin with. We were just dating, and honestly, the man does have every right to just walk off without an explanation because we never established anything in the first place. I say the woman has the same right as well.
While I do hate it when these men engage in talk about wanting to take trips together, go a particular place on a date or have me meet family and friends, and then never follow through, again, until they’ve specifically professed something to me and stated that we were in a relationship, there’s nothing really to bank on.
Karl R says
starthrower68 asked: (#69)
“So how do you resolve the conundrum of a woman keeping her interest in you close to the vest when you impress her?”
I’m not seeing a conundrum either.
Let’s assume two savvy daters go on a first date. Both try to make it a good date, because they’d like the other person to be into them, and they’d like the option of having a second date (if that’s what they want). Furthermore, both recognize that the other person is doing the exact same thing.
The goal (for both of them) is to have the option for a second date. If the man was sufficiently impressed, he will ask the woman out again. If not, he won’t. If the woman was sufficiently impressed, she will accept the invitation. If not, she won’t.
As a man, I want to know whether the woman is sufficiently interested. When I ask a woman out, I will get a response. (For those of you who are confused, silence is a response which means “No thanks.”)
Claudia said: (#68)
“Evan, you need to tell people that don’t want to see someone again to tell them SOMETHING.”
The people who need to hear this aren’t coming to Evan asking about the polite way to break up. And if you offer advice to people who aren’t listening, you’re just wasting your time.
Claudia said: (#68)
“Disappearing is the most evil and cowardly thing someone can do to someone else.”
Is that really the most evil thing you can imagine one person doing to another?
If so, you’re shockingly naive. I could not imagine having a partner who was that naive. At some point my fiancée and I will have to deal with one of us suffering from a devastating illness or injury. We can rely on each other to function through crises and tragedies. We won’t have to deal with the crisis -and- our partner going to pieces at the same time.
If you’re not that naive, than you’re acting like a drama queen. I have Jewish friends who lost extended family members to the holocaust. I have a friend from Eastern Europe whose family suffered attrocities at the hands of both the Germans and the Soviets. I have friends who were forcibly raped. My grandparents were murdered in a failed robbery. I would be embarassed if my fiancée were to describe an act of rudeness as “the most evil thing” in front of anyone who has actually experienced something more worthy of that claim.
That’s the kind of statement that will drive men away.
I realize that you’re probably hurting right now, and that it’s probably the pain talking. But at some point I’m going to unintentionally do something that hurts my fiancée. While I’m sure she will let me know when that happens, she won’t be overreacting at that time. You are overreacting.
I realize I’m being harsh, but you’re sending up a red flag when you say things like that. And when you’re finished being offended at my harshness, you might find it useful to know about the red flag.
TiA says
great advice Evan. I think that is key to dating, not getting your hopes up too much. I do this now when dating, but honestly, even if ur not emotionally invested and just have a few dates, the dissapointment is there. It gets tiring. I recommend people to take breaks and do something good for themselves, volunteer, go on a trip. etc. helps me 🙂
Michael17 says
I do feel Claudia #68’s pain RE disappearing acts. Disappearing is classless and it is disrespectful IMO too.
Now I don’t think she really feels that it is worse than other crimes against humanity, but it does suck to be disappeared on. There is actually a chemical reaction in our bodies that somewhat resembles crack withdrawal.
MilkyMae #74: I drive a 9-year-old Dodge. Thanks to the woman dropping me off, I have gotten to sit inside a brand new BMW and an Audi though. If a woman is writing me off because of that, then good. I dodged a bullet.
Michael17 says
By the way Karl #76, it does sound that you have seen a lot. Wow.
Josie says
InsertPseudonymHere
thx for your comment and yes only if we allow others to make us feel that way.
So now, I just gather he is just not that into me …
and go on find others who will
I feel calmer than better
wish everyone love
Anita says
SS#75
Touche, mon ami with what you said about “…there is NOTHING to bank on” with words. What you described about how men says this and that, based on the feeling of the moment, can be described as an intention. However an intention is just that; an intention. Unless he follows up with action, that will cement where you are in his life. As they say: Action speaks louder than words.
Otherwise, do try to put things into perspective and hold onto your heart until you KNOW his actions are consistent over TIME. (I mean more than days or weeks).
By the way, this applies to either gender and in romantic or non-romantic relationships.
Brittany says
And a majority of the time, words mean nothing anyway. They may be spoken just to tell him or her what he/she thinks his/her significant other wants to hear, to pretty much appease. Or sadly, see if he or she can toy around with people’s heart and emotions by giving false hopes. Sometimes words are spoken to either woman or man just to hear oneself talk and see if he or she is naive or gullible enough to believe everything that is being said. In that case, this, in a sense, can basically be a more sophisticated way of calling a man or woman a dumb sucker without him or her realizing it. I don’t believe Nothing a man tells me the first time I meet him especially when he is a stranger. Any man that is already talking about marriage, sex, or anything related when I don’t even know him seems questionable. Not being paranoid, but that makes me wonder if he has an ulterior motive or hidden agenda behind why is he bringing up a serious topic so soon or being quick to jump in a relationship, not giving me or himself a chance to know and learn about each other.
Joe says
To those of you who feel a man (or woman) owes you an explanation as to why (s)he doesn’t want to go out with you anymore, when do you feel you are owed this explanation–after one date? two dates? five dates?
Laura says
It s not the explanation i d like to have .the reason why someone does not want to go out / have sex with you / anymore is their reason , they are perfectly entitled to have their own reason. How about the manner and common courtesy and respect of other human being and maturaty of saying : I will call you anymore . It is as easy as this .
When you step on someone toes by mistake do you have the minimum courtesy to say to this person that you are sorry or something similar.
And @ yes men will always be men and yes we can not change what guys do so women have to change our reaction to them = women have to change …
I am ready to step up as a woman and try to change but can men make a little effort too and try to change …
I do think online totally change the nature of interaction with other human being people it diminish the sense of reality that people have in their interaction with others As we continually replace real life with digita l interaction, what happens to the memories we build for ourselves and the people we serve? More and more, we don’t remember what actually happened to us, but what we’ve encountered digitally. But does it matter in the same way? Hence more more people do not even realize what it means to disappear , ignore , not talking to others … Because it s not real for then anymore
Janelle says
@ Laura: you are on to something there and I fully agree…it’s not just about women ‘getting’ men and being more savy. I believe in this modern age, men and women view each other as more disposable due to the seeming ever amount of choices presented online. Men used to cherish and really court a woman.. what happened to those days?
After experiencing the disappearing act first hand just recently with a guy I was dating to 3 going on 4 months who I really liked, and from reading these posts I feel a lot of empathy for all the women who have gone through the heartache, confusion, frustration, disappointment (shall I go on?)… and every possible negative emotion you can think of in response to having this happen. You can rationalize and mentally understand that you shouldn’t have gotten prematurely attached to a guy who made no concrete promises of being your boyfriend. And, when he disappears, you can recall all the times he showed he ‘wasn’t that into you’, and the times your gut said something wasn’t quite right… but then again, he also did several things that led you to believe he was serious about you. He told you you were special. He was consistent in the beginning of the relationship about his interest. And so, your heart had no choice but to believe him, even though the rational part of you told you you should remain cool, calm, and distant and not plan ahead. As a woman, you can’t help but become attached to a guy you like especially when he shows signs that he likes you back. It is all so confusing when the reality comes crashing down on you the week he doesn’t call/and disappears that in actuality you had way more feelings than he did. That you jumped the gun. And while Evan is right that you can’t change men, you can only learn as much as you can about what makes men tick so you can mentally prepare yourself when dating, I can’t help but mourn the modern state of dating and think that somehow we as a cohort of singles are causing unnecessary emotional harm to each other.
Not to bring sex into this, but I also think that women have ‘screwed themselves’ no pun intended, by having no-commital sex with men… I believe if all women decided they wouldn’t have sex without committment, you would see people take dating way more seriously and this whole phenomenon of men disappearing out of the clear blue after weeks/months of dating would occur less. Of course, this is not going to magically happen anytime soon, but in an ideal world…
Janelle says
@ Joe # 82.. that’s a good question. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be rejected after a first date with an explanation…Sometimes guys have texted me after a first date, after I texted them to say I had a good time, “sorry I didn’t feel the connection”. That hurts, because I basically complimented the guy, only for him to send me a nice little rejection.
But if a guy asks me out after that point, it means that some sort of potential exists… that’s usually when I start to entertain the possibility that a relationship (if I also want it) is potentially in the works. Of course until about a month hits, I’m very cautiously optimistic. But still even as early as date 2, I’m investing somewhat emotionally in this guy as early and irrational as that sounds. I don’t think I’m unusual and different from a lot of women on this! So after date 2, if a guy’s not feeling it, I would prefer a tactful, respectful reply as to his desire not to continue. Some guys have said, ‘You are really a great person. But I’m looking for a certain type of woman, and you’re just not that type..” or “I just feel that we have a connection but it’s not strong enough that will develop into a relationship” that has been the least hurtful, because I have an explanation and yet he hasn’t made me feel badly about myself. But then again, if I got a slew of these types of rejection lines, maybe I wouldn’t like it! I don’t know… it is tough. I guess as a rule of thumb though the more you’ve dated a woman the more of an obligation I feel is owed to give an explanation
Michelle says
Hi Evans, interesting article. Sorry english is not my first language.
i kind of in same situation. I’ve been on dates with this guy about 6 weeks and everything went great. We met online, and i didn’t have any high expectations at all. The very first date, we seem clicked and we had so many things in common and he was a real gentleman. I have been on dates before, but this was one of the best dates I’ve ever been on. It was just instant attraction for both of us I thought. He lived 45 min away from my place, so he initiated all of the dates and picked my up every single dates and paid every single dates also too. He opened a door for me, made sure i wasn’t cold, rubbed my feet after long day and gave me massage and it was just so sweet. and the stuff he did for me was so sweet and i’ve never had any guy done these things for me before. in fact, he didn’t even kiss me until forth date, and he even asked me if he can kiss me which was super cute of him. He told me he haven’t dated much and he is shy and told him I am the same too. I went to his place many times and spent several nights, but we never been intimate. He respected my boundaries and never really pushed me into sex. The first night I spent night with him, we gave me his bed and he slept in his coach. Next day when i woke up, he made a breakfast. It was so sweet and I knew that i was falling for him. We just really enjoyed each other companies. He goes to school, so he is always busy and last time he texted me was on thursday and I didn’t respond his text and he texted me again on friday saying what up i wanna see you want me to pick me and get together at his place, even though, it was around 8 pm. so we hung out, it was cool and I spent a night there and we just cuddled. But I am a student here and my visa is soon expiring and i was kind of planning to go back to my country, but I wasn’t sure. Somehow along the line, I told him that i am leaving and he looked surprised, but asked me if i could extend my visa and i told him i could. Ever since that, I haven’t heard from him. I texted him asking everything is ok, he says he is busy with school and It has been two weeks. I don’t wanna be too obsessive and never really called, I only texted him once. I emailed him yesterday saying we had a good time and what’s going on and he haven’t replied me back. I know school is started and he is busy and he was saying that he so stressed out and trying go get a good grade and finish up soon. He goes to a very prestigious college and very competitive esp his major. we are in both mid twenties. I really like this guy a lot and I was kind of looking for long term. But if you really like someone you will text or call right. I don’t know. I am so stressed out and very hurt. My feeling is strong all i think is him. I really really like this guy. But if he’s not interested, at least let me know right. I sucks and it really hurt and I am crying literally everyday. 🙁
marymary says
Joe
I wouldn’t want an explanation after one date, or two, probably not three either (not experienced any letdowns after three dates though).
It could be anything, he doesn’t like my accent, I look like his crazy ex, he met someone else, he got diagnosed with an STD, he got a promotion and is moving. What do I care? I don’t know the guy.
PS I don’t do online so I haven’t had to go through a slew of these experiences. That might make me feel differently.
Aussie_Girl says
Well I dated a guy I met online for pretty much a month. Before we had sex told him I did not want friends with benefits and for us not to date other people. He understood. All was good.
I decided to go online that week. Thinking of deleting my online profile. Looked at his out off curiosity. Low and behold saw he was online the past 24 hrs. That site shows when a person was last online.
I questioned him about it because we had agreed to not see other people. He said he had gone in there while bored at work and was just deleting kisses. Went on about how he never lied about not seeing anyone else while with me and if we don’t have trust we don’t have anything. I said I did trust him but just wanted to see if we were still on the same page. He was fine with things after that and acted normal again.
The next week. Noticed I did not hear from him as much. Initiated dates and made plans with him twice. He was happy to see me and we still saw each other.
After I then pulled back because I did not want to keep initiating and planning dates Through out the whole relationship to see if he would do anything. All I got was 2 texts which he initiated. Afterwards he became flakey after I asked him if he wanted to hang out again. Just once by the way.
2 weeks later noticed I got nothing at all from him! No contact whatsoever.
I thought we had sorted stuff out from before. Shrugs. But I guess he was obviously still lying about being online then.
J says
I’m sorry to have to break this to you Aussie, but it sounds to me like this is a relationship that should never have happened to begin with. You brought up being exclusive before he was ready to (one month is not long enough to decide on that). You were going to delete your profile before he was ready to. That was mistake number two. Number three, you asked him about why he was online. Number four, you had to initiate dates and you made the plans. It should have been obvious to you at that point – he just wasn’t into you enough and you pushed things farther than he was willing to go. That’s why he disappeared. Let the men come to you and you can be the one to decide whether you want to be with them, but you have to pace the relationship slowly.
Oroimen says
It could happen after a couple of dates… but how about when he has disappeared after dating consistently for five months? I’m starting to think that as we were hitting the 6-month milestone he panicked and instead of acting like a grown up and talking things through, he chose to disappear.
Anyway… I’m not surprised anymore, but I still don’t like this Houdini act men pull…
h_woman says
“Because a man can be really interested in you, sleep with you, act like a future boyfriend for a few weeks, and be doing the EXACT SAME THING with another woman simultaneously.” If so, how can I rely on your, I’m sorry, “theory”, of “looking at his actions”, Evan? When even his ACTIONS don’t prove anything? I think you contradict yourself here when saying looking at his actions can help to determine if he wants to be my boyfriend or not.
(also: Few weeks is a long time! If he’s acting like a boyfriend FOR A FEW WEEKS how can I not be sure he IS my boyfriend?)
And what exactly is a “sealed contract”? When he introduces me to his family? We we move together?
Sorry my English.
Melody says
A few weeks are nothing. They are not a long time in the dating world, and they are not a long time in a man’s mind.
Julia says
@H_woman
You know when he tells you you’re his girlfriend. I followed Evan’s plan with my last boyfriend and it went exactly how he said it would. After 5 weeks he just started calling me his girlfriend. It’s really that easy.
h_woman says
Julia, when I said “actions” I’ve actually meant boyfriend behavior according to Evan’s “8 things a man should do to be called your boyfriend”, and they include him calling me his girlfriend…
Sam says
I had to smile when I read the scenario that Evan described because this is exactly what has just happened to me. Except it wasn’t 2 or 3 great dates, it was 5! I understood why my date disappeared. As our dating progressed I was clear I was looking for a monogamous committed relationship. I thought that as he was a practising Christian he would understand. However he vanished. Not very Christian like but I understood he certainly didn’t want a committed relationship with me!
I totally agree with the advice. You have to align your expectations and reserve judgement because you have only met any date on a few occasions when he is seeking to impress. I harbour no ill will towards my Houdini as ultimately he was just too weak to speak to me honestly. I urge others in a similar situation to not look back but forwards to the great guy who does deserve you.
Rachel says
I disagree with this article. Woman are hopeful when they are dating. You cant go into it thinking it will fail, because you never know. And why is it always up to the man to do the choosing?? So you have to wait till the guy decides to be your boyfriend pick me dont agree.
Angela says
First time commenting anywhere on anything like this, so if it comes across different, have mercy 🙂 🙂
I believe bad behavior should be addressed. Also, when someone stops contact, (man or a woman), it is good to wait a little and then simply ask why. Many times technology is to blame, other times outside circumstances. Stopping contact does not mean being dumped. It might mean that something actually did happen and it is good to communicate about it.
Guys know that I will ask for explanation if they were to disappear, so they either do not start dating me, or when they do, there is an explanation either on my or their side without anyone having to ask for it. I behave like I have a backbone from the first moment they see me, and at times it does make my life difficult, but I treat others with respect, so I ask for it too.
There is another thing I happen to notice. Forgive me for the generalization, but in any society where goods and services are easily tossed away and replaced, so are more likely people as well, as nothing is truly considered of lasting value. Be the value, behave like you are valuable and communicate it. Personally I would hate myself for not asking what happened. I would be writing off people in all areas of my life for minute reasons. On the other hand, if I truly find someone has rotten character, they lost me forever in every aspect. (That happens rarely).
Might I also suggest, that in my humble opinion women AND men are hopeful for love and something wonderful. At the same time we all have different degree for how deeply committed and attached we want to be, and that is completely individual and can not be said that men are this way or women are that way. I know very emotional men and very caring men and some cold women and vice versa. So, I am starting to think about challenging this whole notion of battle of sexes. Sorry to go against what everyone is currently teaching, feel free to have your own opinions on this one as well, you are most welcome. Enjoy loving yourself and others, be open, hopeful, and handle defeat with sparkly eyes, relaxed smile and holding your head up, after you grieved a little. You are all doing well, as you think about how to be and how to love others. You are way ahead of everyone else who thinks just about themselves! 🙂
Jenni says
What a great discussion. Guys have pulled the fade away/disappear act with me. I’m not so much as disappointed or irritated over the assumption that they weren’t into me, rather I was disappointed in the way they chose to handle it. Or lack of handling it. Being upfront and honest are so important yet so rare. I for one would rather someone come out and say “Hey, I’m not feeling it” as opposed to disappearing. While pulling the disappearing act may be easier albeit cowardly, I see it as a slap in the face that the person did not have the least bit of respect for you as a person. Oh well.
Gail B says
Hi Jenni – I couldn’t agree more, having had two guys I really liked (and thought were good guys!) pull a MIA act on me in the last six months. I hate the dishonest and cowardly way out of just disappearing…it does hurt, this I know all too well, and tends to give our self-esteem a bit of a knock. But – hopefully…we live and learn and get over it..the problem was not ours, anyway!
Alexi says
May I just say how much I love, love, love this article! It’s amazing what simple words can do to help you. I especially like this : “When you choose to be devastated by a man who is NOT your boyfriend, what you’re really doing is holding onto the loss of your fantasy. You’re not really mourning the loss of a guy you never had.” Thanks so much for this! I’ve only been reading this blog for a day and I’ve already saved myself and my girlfriends week’s worth of endless phone call, figuring out, what if’s, maybes and rehashing scenarios over and over again.
patty says
great article Evan! thanks so much and thanks all for your comments!
champagne says
What does it mean when you’ve been dating someone for 2-3 months. You talk on the phone and go on a date once or twice a week. However you haven’t had sex, you have one final phone call and then he disappears. After 15 dates, are you saying you don’t deserve even a “not gonna work” text. I understand about expectations, but this really leaves you wondering what went wrong? was he ever interested? Why the yoyo disappearing act? Why can’t he just send a text? I don’t think when you’ve spent time together and been intimate, you should have to just figure it out.
Veronica says
I have never online dated but I know this struggle. I have had men promise me the world, tell me I am unlike any other woman they have ever dated. I have even been in friendships with men who said they loved hanging out with me. But they all inevitably disappear. I know I can’t be that intimidating and I know that most of the time the disappearing act was not a result of them being too “in love” with me and afraid of those feelings. But I have a couple of problems with this article:
First, you do not explain at all WHY men lead us on only to disappear without the courtesy of a text or call.
Second, just because a guy is your boyfriend that doesn’t mean shit. My last boyfriend promised me the world and followed through for a couple of months. Then one day, all of a sudden, he says “I’m not ready for a relationship” and he told me he loved me the morning he sent me packing. He still calls me every now and then to see how I’m doing.
So please, can you explain why men act so inconsiderately and not just tell us how they do it? We know HOW they are inconsiderate. What I want to know is WHY?
Boyfriend doesn’t mean shit and in this day in age neither does a ring on your finger.
And how exactly do we “manage” our expectations when men are so unpredictable? I don’t find myself devastated when men pull the disappearing act, just annoyed for having wasted both my time and my feelings on a man who did not have enough common courtesy to be honest. And that is annoying.
Is my time less valuable because I am a woman?
Although, I will give you this: the man you mentioned in the story who sent the email to Sandy did the right thing. Sandy should not have been so devastated because the man was both courteous and up front about his intentions from the beginning. But that HARDLY EVER HAPPENS. She should consider herself lucky.
Karen says
This is so spot on. I agree 100% and wish I had gotten this info 20 years ago. I would’ve saved myself a lot of heartache.
Dee says
It is silly that men can be allowed to be dismissive and woman should act like it’s okay, Evan. It’s not. If we’re interviewing for a job and we don’t want it, we likely tell the employer we’re no longer interested. It’s the thing to do. Yet with someone we’ve kissed, dated, etc…they don’t deserve to hear from us? Bull.
Mandy says
When a man poofs on me I just tell myself:
Interested people act interested.
Let yourself believe the worst case scenario.
These type of men are not worthy of your time and distress, if they were, they wouldn’t be so disrespectful. You have to love yourself more than you love a man who tells you pretty lies to get what he wants. (sex) Ask yourself would you want your daughter (or some other person you love) to be treated like this? What would you tell your daughter or best friend to do in the same circumstances? You would tell them the guy did them a favor, better to know before you get too involved what kind of person you are dealing with. Go do something nice for your self, exercise, and in time he will just be a faint memory. Funny how time makes us see things more clearly.
Skye says
You are SOOO Right! 100 %. It took me a ton of bad love experiences to realize what you’ve said in this article. And now, I’ve adjusted my expectations and realized all that you’ve mentioned in your article. I still get disappointed when the guy Poof! disappears but I’m no longer devastated or wondering for weeks (even months) what I did wrong. I did nothing wrong. He just couldn’t hang and it’s better to find out if it works sooner rather than later.
Thank you for writing this! I hope women will read your words and apply your advice. It will save them a ton of heartache! : )
georgina says
What bothers me about the general attitude here is that there is no moral judgment. Disapperaing without explanation is morally wrong.
It has nothing to do with expectations of the reciever of such behaviour or whether one is hurt by such behaviour or not. That is irrelavant.
This kind of behaviour objectifies people and that is what is wrong about it.
Sassy says
I tried this, and it gave me well functioning relationships and dates, that were very Flat because I wasn’t putting my heart into it. Why wasn’t I putting my heart into it? Because I didn’t want it to get hurt with wishful thinking and fantasy. I was open, and closed. But I wasn’t being me – a flawed, yet beautiful woman.
I “get” what Evan and Karl are saying, and it DOES work but will you be happy with the results? I wasn’t.
I’m not interested in a passionless relationship, that (in my opinion) just flows without a hiccup. So the key for me is to get out and connect with men, as if I were just one of the guys. Make friends, and grow into a romantic relationship over time. To me, that is safe as well as opening up to the chance for something more. I think it’s less likely that a friend (who you value, respect, trust, etc.) is going to pull a fast one on you. They are less likely to get intimate with you, if they couldn’t see themselves with you for a long time to come. I successfully did online dating years ago, but these days higher quality men do not seem to exist or they’re worn out from lower quality women. I don’t know. But who I want to find, is not online. So I need to haul my butt off of the computer, and back to old fashioned “dating”.
Good luck, and God speed to all. xx
Ronin says
As a guy who’s doing online dating, here’s my perspective:
Girls are extremely picky about who they go out with. As a result, there’s no reason for me to even bother reading a profile closely or getting hung up on anyone, I’ve just got to throw myself out there as much as I can so I can quickly filter down to the 2-5% of profiles who are going to be responsive to me.
Even if I’m not sure I like a girl, hell, a date is fun, so I’ll go. Then, as a guy on a date, I’m supposed to take the lead and act all confident, pick the location, be the aggressor, keep the conversation going, etc. But it’s usually an act. While I’m acting, I’m really trying to figure out if I like this person but not revealing my thoughts at all because a girl expects you to be focused on showing her a good time, not testing her. Even if I’m getting pretty sure that she’s not the right one, I might use a 2nd or 3rd date to try out a new venue or idea that I haven’t done before to see how it goes, so that I’ll have great seemingly spontaneous ideas when I meet a girl I do like.
I get the sense that the girls do their choosing much more upfront – they read profiles, look for attributes they like, etc. Guys are just busy pursuing at that stage. They decide later. I’m not getting into right or wrong here – game theory suggests that both sexes are following the optimal strategy for them. It make sense that girls are picky – going on a date with a random guy is a risky proposition. Given that, it makes sense that guys pursue then choose.
And to the author talking about how proud he is that he helped the 45 year old get a letter from the cute guy: I hate to break it to you, but guys write tons of letters and write them quickly even if they’re not really that interested, because they’re pursuing the strategy I mentioned above of giving themselves as many options as possible. If you could do the same thing for a guy, I’d be much more impressed, because girls are far more picky.
liveandlearn says
I guess the moral of the story is to enjoy what you have with a new guy and keep in the present tense. So basically that means having no expectations other than having a good time with someone you like and withholding any thoughts of a future and continuing to date others or look for others to date. I think men like competition or at least are motivated by competition and that applies to their dating life as well it seems so we women should expand our availability to others.
Krissy says
I couldn’t have found this post/comments at a better time. I just got ghosted after 3wks, and it stings. He said and did everything right, and I think because of that I really did let myself get ahead of where things really were between us. I was thinking I’d found a boyfriend, instead of thinking lets see if he follows through on any of the things he’s talking about and telling me. Lesson learned. A little bruised at the moment, but if it seems too good to be true it probably is!
robert says
disappearing without a trace is not acceptable and i do not think this kind of behaviour is connected to your sex- both sexes do it if they suffer from emotional immaturity. you may choose how you respond to it to a certain degree, but thinking that you should and can be totally unaffected by it is delusional.
Maggie says
As daters we need to learn to use each dating experience as an opportunity to learn and connect more with ourselves rather than the one we have dated that disappeared. Their disappearing act is wanting to teach us to not disappear on ourselves which is hands down what we are doing.
Denise says
When it comes to expectations, my personal principles is that I have no expectations other than those that you set. That means that I do expect others to keep their word and to follow through with what they have indicated their intentions are. And if something about that changes, I expect them to let me know.
I don’t think that we gain anything by telling people not to expect people to keep their word and to follow through. Not only is it a show of disrespect not to do so, but it makes it easier on people to act inappropriately because they can tell the person who is disappointed with them that it’s not a big deal and everyone does it.
We might need to expect that many people will break their word, but we shouldn’t accept that behavior. There’s too much pushing of women to be the cool chick, namely lowering their expectations of respectful behavior. Again, communicating honestly with someone and following through is a sign of respect, and its absence is a sign of disrespect.
The reason I talk about keeping your word is because I would say in 9 out of 10 of these disappointment scenarios, the other person did in fact say something that he later backed out of. I don’t think that most women, especially those experienced with dating, are building castles out of thin air. The men they are dealing with are fully participating in that as well. I think women would do better to set their standards such that they filter for men who always remain true to what they say. Those will be the men who offer the most potential.
Pret says
I have just recently started online dating, it can be overwhelming but you can me some really nice people. I met a guy I liked, I would anticipate his every message. Once we had exchange numbers, I left the dating site. As of know, we have been on a few date and a relationship seem even more likely. However, he still isn’t my boyfriend, as he wants to take things slow – which I am happy with as I do not want to rush things only after a couple weeks. I am cautiously hopefully, being mindful that things might not work out. Such is life!
This had been the best post I’ve read about preparing yourself for the realities of dating.
Keke says
I think in the online dating world I just assume people are dating several prospects at once to see who’s the best fit. I reserve the sex for when I’m in a relationship for that reason. People have so many choices. Someone could live closer, work in the same field etc. You never know so I don’t take it personal.
MenReasy says
I truly dont understand this whole concept of “ghosting” or “disappearing” that everyone seems obsessed with. Its called the dating process.It was sooo much easier in the past to date. Im sooo happy Im married. A man would ask for a date. You would set the date. No communication prior to the set date. If he showed up, he wanted to be on the date. And you’d go. If not, you’d be “stood up”, and you’d have a clear answer that he lost interest. No calls.If you went on a date, it could go well or not. You said goodnight. DAYS could go by with, oh my goodness, absolutely no contact. Why? Because it was ONE DATE! hahaIf he liked you, at some point he’d call and set another date. If not, he wouldnt. And you never cared because you were too busy on other dates or having a fabulous social life!It was EASY, because if he liked you, he wouldnt want to lose you, so he would keep setting commitments of time based on the fear that someone else would take you. He couldnt stalk your social media or text you.The problem now? Too much communication!There should be no “check-in” texts early on. If he knows he “has” you, why would he not pursue someone else? You are boring and easy. Who wants that?!I say, unless he calls to set a second date, ignore him. Ignore all the “how are you”s, and “how is your week”? Keep yourself private.I truly dont get it. Do girls out there really like this endless chatting with a man? haha It makes me nauseous to think of guy being this mushy after one date. Total turn off! I would never trust him. I would see him as either, 1. weak or 2., untrustworthy. Aka, a player.All I want to hear after one date is, “I want to see you again. How about XYZ?” If i like him, I say yes. If not, i say noEasy.After one date, I really dont care what you are doing or how your day went. Thats relationship talk. Why after 1?date are you doing relationship talk? That so uncool. I also dont care after the 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th. Maybe by the 5th Ill show some interest in how your life was apart from me. If you bring it up.Its up to the men to move it forward. Or dont bother me again.It should always be like this, ladies.Even after he says his your “boyfriend”. Say, “Really? Does that mean I need to stop dating that other guy now? ; ) Of course, he will know theres is not one. Almost ;)And thats where you want it.So Im sorry, but if you buy into a fantasy relationship that easily, than you are asking to be “ghosted”. Stop choosing to be a victim, get in the arena, amd play the game properly.Yes, its a game. Yes, its still real and true when its a game. Yes, its FUN! Have some fun!As a female, you really need to understand your power in dating. Let him take action. Watch his actions. Not his words. And know text is not an action. Text is like someone showing up bringing you one single rose petal, with the unspoken promise of the rose. Its essentially meaningless. Its nothing.So, if you would accept a man on your doorstep with a rose petal in his hand, than I say you deserve to be ghosted. I say, if a man shows up at my door with a rose petal, there better be a trail of them, that are leading to dozen and dozens of roses, along with a crisp, clear diamond ring. So if his actions arent leading you there, then be ready to drop him at any point on the path and dont feel anything, ans dont look back.