Can I Stay With a Man If I’m More “Masculine” Than He Is?

I’m a 24-year-old woman living in Las Vegas who has no trouble finding and keeping guys… some of which happen to be good guys! Like my boyfriend. (I attribute that skill set to you and other dating coaches who helped me get into the dating world of adults in a healthy way.)

My boyfriend is a hard worker, great blue eyes, gentlemanly, fun man who I’ve known for about a year and have been dating for 2 months. I love being around him and being intimate with him…except for one thing: I’m “stronger” than he is. And I don’t mean this in some kind of man-bashing way. I’m not a man hater, I LOVE men. I prefer being the submissive partner and am sooo excited when I’m with a man I can relax and be my complete feminine self with. So when I say “stronger,” I suppose what I’m really saying is I feel like I have to be more in my masculine around him and it’s turning me off. Big time. He looks to me for strength, he looks to me for self-control, and he looks to me to “keep him in check”. I don’t want that. I don’t want to mommy him and I don’t want to feel like I need to monitor him. It kills all attraction for me!

I’ve told him this and his only response is, “that’s what I need in a woman.” He’s already said he loves me and has proposed. Which should excite me but his rush turned me off even more!!!

Am I crazy for wanting to break up with a good hard working man who treats me wonderfully for these reasons? He’s flipping a switch in me I can’t even flip back on my own when I try to…

Rain

You’re not crazy, Rain. In fact, you sound like you’re seeing things completely clearly.

I know I’ve written about this before. And that sometimes I need to repeat myself in case the message wasn’t clear the first time around. But some people just can’t be bothered to click on links, which is why I’m going to give you largely the same message as I gave to the other women who were dissatisfied with seemingly great guys.

Through no fault of your own, you’re not feeling it for this guy. Period.

It doesn’t matter if he’s cute, kind, fun, and hardworking if YOU’RE not attracted to him. Sure, there are women who would kill to find a guy like your boyfriend, and, you know what? They should get a chance at him. Because, through no fault of your own, you’re not feeling it for this guy. Period.

Doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. Doesn’t mean you’re too picky. Doesn’t mean you’re heartless for breaking up with this young man. If anything, you saw into your future and you didn’t like what you saw: a 50-year-relationship with a man who conducts himself like a child.

Is it possible that he’ll grow up? Sure. Is it probable? Maybe. Do you want to take your chances and wait? I wouldn’t think so. One of my core coaching principles is that you should never have a relationship dependent on someone changing on your behalf.

If you don’t trust a guy, don’t marry him and think it’ll get better.

If you have no fun with a guy, don’t marry him and complain that your marriage is boring.

If you are not attracted to a guy, don’t force yourself because he’s nice and you don’t want to hurt him.

He deserves a woman who is attracted to him – AND is willing to put up with being in the Mommy role.

Let him down gently and when you get back out there, maybe raise your age range by a few years to start dating men instead of boys.

It’s only been two months and he’s proposed to you. This is not a man who is ready to make smart, long-term decisions – for himself or for you. Let him down gently and when you get back out there, maybe raise your age range by a few years to start dating men instead of boys.

A young woman with a good head on her shoulders like you will have no shortage of options – and will be able to sift through lots of guys until you find a suitable masculine complement.

Finally, if any of you ladies are looking for a cute, kind, hardworking 24-year-old to take care of – hey, sometimes, it’s easier to make all the decisions! – I predict one is going to be on the market really soon.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Erin

    Evan, I’m curious if you would give the same advice to a woman who was 10+ years older?

    I run into this problem regularly too…to the point that I feel like the guy I’m dating is my child.  I work 60-80 hour weeks, and suddenly I find myself being Suzie Homemaker to men…doing their laundry, cooking all the meals, etc….and I like doing all this stuff, but not ON TOP of being the one making and managing all the money.  One guy even asked me to loan him a security deposit for his new apartment!  At which point I cut him loose – but maybe you’d have told me not to given my advanced age?  This guy was decent, probably close to a six-figure salary, gainfully employed, good-looking, etc.

    1. 1.1
      Christine

      I can’t speak for Evan, but I think the same advice would apply to a woman of any age.  At any age, I don’t think it makes sense to be with someone you’re not actually happy with.  And yes, even at an older age (when the dating pool seems to get smaller), I don’t think anyone should stay with someone they’re actually not happy with, just because they’re afraid that they might not be able to find anything better.

      I think you did the right thing in cutting a guy like that loose.  I’m actually the same “advanced” age that you are…but managed to find someone who wouldn’t dream of treating me that way.  Not to say that we keep a tit-for-tat scorecard.  But, we both share a joint account and contribute money to it, for our shared expenses.  We also each do our own laundry and share in household chores.  Yes, it is possible to find a more equitable arrangement even into the mid-30s and beyond!

       

    2. 1.2
      Buck25

      Erin,

      Let me get this straight; a thirty-something guy, who can’t do his own laundry,  can’t cook, and makes “close to a six-figure salary”…but asks his girlfriend to loan him the security deposit for his new apartment? Seriously?

      I’d like for the rest of the ladies to chime in here; just how common is this, in the younger generations? I mean, the first two are basic survival skills, and the last reflects a lack of financial planning/budgeting, which is also pretty basic; how are these guys surviving on their own?

      Anyway, Erin needed to throw this minnow back in the pond; he hasn’t grown up enough yet to be a keeper.

      1. 1.2.1
        Stacy2

        Buck, that sounds completely crazy to me. I have never met a guy who would specifically request that I do his laundry or cook him a meal. I mean, for one you would have to live together for this conversation to even come up, and unless you move in with a new guy every 6 months how can this even be a repeated issue? Or if they’re asking her to come over to their apartments to do their laundry or something? I’d just say – “you have me confused with your housekeeper. Bye!”. But it is really quite impossible to imagine, especially in NY where laundry is all sent out and food is delivered through seamless or whatever.

      2. 1.2.2
        Steve in Big D

        Buck,

        I agree with you.  A guy who makes to a close to a six-figure salary and can’t save a deposit for an apartment is not a guy who is responsible enough to be in a mature relationship.

         

      3. 1.2.3
        Mrs Happy

        Dear Buck25@ 1.2,

        I don’t think poor what you term “basic” skills (housework, laundry, financial planning, cooking, etc) are uncommon. In fact quite the opposite, I think being poor at these duties is common, and not just in young men. It’s so common, I’ve come to the conclusion, the skills aren’t basic.

        Those tasks are work, take precious time, quite repetitive, cognitively unstimulating for many, and require one to delay gratification, and a large proportion of the population is poor at those things, so will take an opportunity to pair up with someone who is stronger in those areas.

        So Buck, the men can survive alone, but things aren’t handled well (e.g. can’t save a security deposit, eat take-away food a lot, live in a degree of filth, etc) until a capable partner helps. Some women find a lack of homemaking ability in a man endearing, and it does give them a chance to shine in a specialist area and be caring. If an adult man can’t run his own ship I find it pathetic, but each to their own. I have enough kids and need my man to function as an adult.

        I myself would never have done any laundry or housework or regular meal preparation for a boyfriend. But I generally pay people to do these jobs for me because I find them boring, and pre-kids I was working in paid work 60+ hours a week. Erin @ 1.0 did say she liked doing these things. Thus she’ll attract men who want these done. Maybe she should rein in her homemaker impulses while dating, and start assessing men for their ability to independently self-care, if the absence of this skill irritates her!?

      4. 1.2.4
        Erin

        Well, in his defense he was 30 and I was 33 at the time:)

        There are actually a lot of men in my current coastal city who make a solid salary (e.g., engineers) but seem to spend it all on eating out every night or expensive meal delivery, cars, housing, and vacations!

        When I was living in another major city I dated a hedge fund manager.  We were both in our late 20s, similar salary, but he had a gorgeous condo, a fancy sports car, club memberships, etc.  He was ABLE to cook very well but dismissed cooking at home as “inefficient”…and he regularly commented on his “cash flow problems” that prompted me to pick up the checks for most of our dating activities in the 6 months before we parted ways.

        Financial management and basic household skills are declining in my generation from what I see and experience.  On the plus side, that means my solid but not pro-level cooking can really knock the socks off a man! 😉  On the negative side, it makes it hard to find someone that I will be comfortable to share a bank account with.

        1. D_M

          Erin!!!,

          Just go ahead and put that “S” on your chest girl. 60 – 80 hour weeks, and still embracing the domestics with minimal resentment. I thought they stopped making this model years ago!!! In all seriousness, continue to be who you are. The right guy will reciprocate and not take advantage of your domestic kindness. I would say that’s how you weed out the apples that are not right for you.

          A guy should acknowledge what you are doing for him with those pamper days. You know, the days where it’s all about you. Try not to criticize him too much if he forgets to add the rinse aide to the dishwasher or the fabric softener to the rinse cycle. Let me add this disclaimer; I only used the reciprocity of household chores as an example. I am not saying that pampering a woman is doing the chores around the house.

        2. Stacy2

          Erin, “slap yourself, sister! ” (c) What are you doing picking up checks for guys with $$ and cooking meals after 80 hour weeks? You are inviting men to treat you like a doormat. Nobody EVER will appreciate that, if you think you are getting brownie points for being “nice” you are sadly mistaken. I learned it the hard way in my marriage. Close your wallet and practice this line: “housekeepers clean and chefs cook. I am neither. I am your girlfriend”.

        3. SparklingEmerald

          Stacy2 said “Close your wallet and practice this line: “housekeepers clean and chefs cook. I am neither. I am your girlfriend”.”

          You sound pretty entitled Stacy2 and act like men should be treated like ATM’s, paying for everything while the woman give NOTHING in return.

          Perhaps instead of women working 80 hour work weeks they should prioritize RELATIONSHIPS and work a normal 40-45 hour work week.  Leaving her the time and energy to reciprocate her guy’s generosity.  If a man can pay for all the dates, do all of the driving, set up your TV, computer, take your car in the the shop for repairs, a woman can at least make him a nice home cooked meal.  And since not to many people really enjoy cleaning (except Monica from “Friends”)  the cost of  a housekeeper can be shared, the household duties can be shared based on personal talents and likes/dislikes and some can be left undone.  Having all the towels folded neatly in thirds in the linen closet isn’t really a necessity.  Eating IS a necessity.

          Cooking a healthy meal from scratch isn’t that expensive or difficult and is beneficial to your health.  We’re not going to lose the right to vote if we make a nice home cooked meal for our boyfriend, spouse or family.

          BTW, I am not advocating for women to do all of the paying AND all of housework/cleaning etc. as in Erin’s situation.  But Stacy2 solution of making the man do all of the paying while the woman doesn’t reciprocate anything at all isn’t for me either.

          I advocate for reciprocity. Every couple can negotiate what reciprocity looks like for them, but I don’t think too many men are going to be on board with Stacy2’s princess entitlement complex.

        4. Stacy2

          SparklingEmerald:

          Perhaps instead of women working 80 hour work weeks they should prioritize RELATIONSHIPS and work a normal 40-45 hour work week. 

          Perhaps, you should not tell women what to do?

          Nobody is advocating (certainly i am not) for treating a guy like an ATM and giving nothing in return. She should give something in return. But that something should not be cleaning and cooking (and a nice meal every once in a while is not the same as providing meals every night). If you think that your value in a relationship is tied to this, that all you have to give is a contribution to household chores, i feel sorry for you. Imagine a scenario where she’s dating a guy who cooks for himself and  already has a housekeeper and a gardener. Her “services” are not needed. Now what? Are you saying she doesn’t have anything to give to such guy? That is quite self depreciating. Reflect on that…

        5. SparklingEmerald

          Stacy 2 said “Perhaps, you should not tell women what to do?

          Perhaps you should not be reading an ADVICE blog, if you don’t think anyone should “tell women what to do”.  Women come here and ask  Evan for advice, then in the comment section, we all offer our opinions, insight, experiences, and suggestions.

          Also, perhaps you shouldn’t tell women what NOT to do.  Because that’s what you did, and that’s what I responded to.

          Nothing that is suggested here, by Evan or anyone else (including your advice to women to never or rarely cook for a man) is mandatory.  If you don’t like a suggestion, don’t take it.

          And if you don’t think anyone should “tell a woman what to do” then perhaps you should do so either.

           

      5. 1.2.5
        SparklingEmerald

        I think an employed guy who can’t pay for his own basic living expenses isn’t grown up enough to be in a relationship.  (Neither is a woman)

        One can always pay to have someone cook and do laundry, but I still think those are still good skill to have, as they are basic survival skills.

        I can see helping a guy (or girl)  out financially if he truly found himself in a bad financial situation through know fault of his own.  (Massive lay offs in his industry, and a big medical fiasco, for example)  But a guy (or girl) who just plain is unemployed or underemployed due to laziness, or is gainfully employed but chronically broke due to wreckless spending and poor money management, no, just no.

        I have a female friend who finally broke up with a dead beat boyfriend.  He was one of the cutest guys I’ve ever met, but he was chronically unemployed or under employed and wasn’t doing anything about it.  She finally had enough (she could no longer afford him)  so she finally let him go.

        I don’t think there is a THING wrong with women doing traditional female stuff for men if there is reciprocity in the relationship.  I don’t know why some women think women should never or rarely cook in a relationship. (I’m not just talking about the female commenters here, I have heard some so called dating coaches for women advise this as well)

        My fiance and I both love to cook, so we take turns, but if he wasn’t much into cooking, I’d gladly do it for both of us, since I’ve been doing it for myself fairly regularly when I was single.  I really don’t understand why sharing a meal with a man, that I would have made on my own is suddenly considered such an affront to womanhood.

         

  2. 2
    Christine

    Sure, you can stay with a man if you’re more masculine than he is…and if you’re happy with that.  However, it doesn’t actually sound to me like the writer is happy with this arrangement.  I think she’s better off letting him go, so they can both find someone they can be happy with.

    I do know a couple where the woman is far more “masculine” than her husband, and they’re very happy together.  But this particular woman is the type who enjoys always being in charge.  She relishes taking the bull by the horn and making all the decisions.

    If anything, I think the writer would be doing him a favor by freeing him to find a woman like that.  I don’t think the writer is that woman, since she says herself that she prefers being the more submissive partner.  Best of luck to her.

     

     

     

     

  3. 3
    Rocky

    I confess that I don’t fully understand what’s going on here.

    OP says she is “stronger,” she is in the “mommy” role, and he looks to her for “strength” and “self-control.”

    What does that even mean? We should all be able to look to our partners for strength and calm. There are limits of course, but that just takes me back to how we don’t have any idea what this relationship is like.

    That said, he has apparently proposed at two months. Oy. For that reason alone, I recommend getting out. It just doesn’t reflect a healthy view of relationships.

    But I still have no idea whether this “I’m stronger than he is” is a legit thing or something the OP is projecting.

    1. 3.1
      Nissa

      The boyfriend asking her to ‘keep him in check’ is inherently asking her to be responsible for his choices…like a mommy for a child. He is asking her to decide and initiate…and has therefore taken on a non masculine role where he will not have to be accountable or responsible for anything.

      But at least in this case it was because the boyfriend made the request. Some of the things I see women doing for boyfriends that I would consider Mommying: picking up his dirty laundry from the floor, doing his laundry, cleaning his bathroom, scheduling his doctor appointments, reminding him to pay his bills, planning vacations, contacting his family to schedule events, washing his car, taking his dog to the vet, providing birth control and enforcing no sex when there isn’t any, and calling and texting to ‘remind him’ of things that need to be done.

      Of course, doing any of those things on occasion, by request is not the same. But many women just ‘do what needs to be done’ without being asked and inadvertently begin treating a man like a child – and then resent him for being one.

      1. 3.1.1
        Caroline

        Nissa-I agree with what you said especially in terms of just going ahead and doing what needed to be done because it obviously wasnt being done. I did this in my marriage-talk about resentment down the line. And most of it I just unconsciously did! Yikes. I’ve been divorced for over 7 years now and I recently incurred a bill together with my ex for our 18 yo son. Honestly, I had to bug him the first of the month, every month for his portion. He actually even did his old song and dance. I’d tell him something that he was supposed to do (we owned a business together) and he’d always reply “remind me”. Well, he did the same recently to me and I just snickered. I think the technical term for guys like this is “man baby”.

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          Rocky, Nissa, and Caroline,

          I wonder if, long term, shuffling into these mommy and child roles winds up diminishing sexual attraction.  I may love 7 year old boys, but I’m not attracted to them.  I want a man to be a grown up.

          I think it’s really pathetic when I see both men and women posting stuff on Facebook and other social media along the lines of “Just treat your husband as if he’s your largest child.”  I don’t want that and would never promote such thinking!

    2. 3.2
      Skaramouche

      I think it means that he is not a “take-charge” sort of man and that he prefers to be “taken charge of”.  I guess some women thrive when paired with this sort of personality and others find it exhausting.  Sounds as is if the OP falls into the second category, as do I.

      I once knew a very nice young man who could be described using many of the same adjectives OP used to describe her guy.  Despite the fact that he was clearly interested in me, I could never picture myself with him.  Why?  I always thought of him as my little brother.  The irony was that he was actually a year older :P.  Had he had a different personality, I could probably have been attracted to him but as things stood, I would never have gotten there.

      1. 3.2.1
        Emily, the original

        Skaramouche,

        I think it means that he is not a “take-charge” sort of man and that he prefers to be “taken charge of”.

        Yeah, agreed. He’s too passive for her. She may respect him as a person but not as a man, which, from what she’s written, is something she needs in order to be attracted to him.

    3. 3.3
      Mrs Happy

      Dear Rocky @ 3,

      regarding “he looks to her for strength and self-control”:

      i) I had a boyfriend like this, he was extremely financially irresponsible, and he wanted me to not only rescue him from the debt avalanche he was in, but when we married, have me continually police his spending and take total control and responsibility for the financial side of our lives. I ran away from this one, I’ve never wanted to be my husband’s keeper or banker. He was nice but incapable of being an independent adult.

      ii) I was educated at Catholic schools and as girls we were taught boys + men were uncontrollable, and it was our duty to rein them in sexually. They were barely responsible for their actions, it was our fault if they got too het up, so to speak. It was a funny pervasive message the nuns communicated without ever actually mentioning sex or gluttony of any domain: men had little self-control.

      I think the OP’s boyfriend wants to abdicate responsibility for many of life’s difficult jobs, and some of his own behaviours. I do not think he is beta, or submissive, rather, I would guess he’s just immature; frankly during his 20’s he is allowed to be, in our current culture.

      1. 3.3.1
        Caroline

        @Mrs Happy-I guess many 20 something’s just mature at different rates. I recall very clearly when my oldest son turned 25-it was like the light bulb finally came on. I’m amazed continually how much he’s learned and matured:). Now my youngest (almost 19).. All I can think is I’ve got how many more years of this?! Oh well, maybe he’ll mature a bit quicker; he’s flown the best and is learning the hard way; kinda like I did at that age. I would have died before I had ever admitted to struggling to my parents:)

         

  4. 4
    Theodora

    Hey, but the common wisdom nowadays is that gender is a social construct imposed by the oppressive, evil Patriarchy. Then why does she need a “masculine” man? She needs some Women’s Studies classes to understand that masculinity is toxic and women can do everything better than men anyway.

    1. 4.1
      Adreana

      Are you being sarcastic or are you for real?

      There is a difference between a healthy, conscious masculine man and a toxic macho sexist.

    2. 4.2
      Karl S

      In principle, I don’t know if we need to apply gendered terms to what essentially amounts to personal boundaries and personal responsibilities, which should apply to men and women both. Is it only masculine if someone has their s*** together and doesn’t expect others to take on roles they should be fulfilling internally? I’d find that a desirable quality in a women too.

      I will admit that as a large group, women are generally more submissive and prefer more in their dominance in men (the OP said she prefers being the more submissive partner). However, Feminism teaches us that we can still deconstruct these notions, find out what elements of it may be purely socialized (or may not), throw out the bits that are not useful in modern society, keep the stuff that we like and try to acknowledge variance on individual levels without being so essentialist about it.

      1. 4.2.1
        Karl S

        *prefer more dominance in their men.

      2. 4.2.2
        Caroline

        Karl S-I think that’s a great point. A man who has his act together wouldn’t want a woman who didn’t have hers in order. I guess it’s the thing the OP said about him wanting her to “take control/keep him in check”. That’s more like an adult/child relationship in many ways. Your kids deep down know you’ll “rescue” them if  they just can’t get it together. But your kids as they become adults usually want to “prove” themselves. He just sounds immature.

  5. 5
    John

    The guy wants to marry Rain because she’s a strong mommy. A feminine guy will seek a masculine woman and turn her into mommy. If Rain wants a masculine guy, she would be  wise to tone down her own masculinity. Masculine guys like feminine women and don’t want a mommy. Most Millennial men I know are more feminine in general.

    1. 5.1
      Emily, the original

      John,

      Most Millennial men I know are more feminine in general.

      Just say NO to the man bun!

      1. 5.1.1
        Adreana

        lol! I don’t mind the man bun if they have more toned/muscular arms. Now the Pokémon Go thing- that needs to go!!!!

      2. 5.1.2
        John

        Just say NO to skinny jeans too.

        1. Emily, the original

          Just say no to fanny packs! And white tube socks pulled up to the knees! And speedo bathing suits!

  6. 6
    Adreana

    The tricky thing is trying to figure out whether a guy is naturally feminine, or if he isn’t confident enough to take charge and needs a little encouragement.  OP’s guy seems naturally feminine and there’s nothing she can do to change that. I think it’s great she has a strong personality, but if she pairs that with a playful/relaxed attitude she’s more likely to attract the masculine ones.

    1. 6.1
      Emily, the original

      Adreana,

      OP’s guy seems naturally feminine

      It’s not always the guys who are feminine who want the woman to take charge. I can think of two people I work with whose marriages are run by the woman, and neither man is feminine. Both guy’s guys. Bros. Dudes. But for some reason, they need their wives to be more dominant.

      1. 6.1.1
        Karmic Equation

        My guy is pretty alpha.

        But he is lousy with pre-planning. He really hates planning more than a few days ahead (if even that).

        We both like playing tournaments, so I as soon as a Tournament schedule is posted, I put every one of them into my calendar “just in case” we want to go to them.

        That doesn’t mean he’s not alpha. Just means he doesn’t like schedules.

        Maybe your guys KNOW they need to do stuff for their wives, but don’t want to waste their brainspace remembering stuff, since their wives don’t mind reminding them, knowing how bad they are with personal schedules.

        I don’t consider managing our schedules “masculine”. Perhaps “OCD” would be more accurate. lol

      2. 6.1.2
        Caroline

        Hi Emily, when you say these guys want their wives to be dominant in their marriages-what do you mean? I do know most women take care of their households. I remember reading how women generally decide how money will be spent. Moms in general make/and or instigate decisions for their kids (child care, insurance, school, etc).and may even tend to plan outings with other couples, dinner parties, vacations, etc

        1. Emily, the original

          Hi Caroline,

          When you say these guys want their wives to be dominant in their marriages-what do you mean?

          Well, the one guy always says of his wife: She’s in charge. He’s on the phone with her every afternoon when he leaves work, getting his “to-do” list. (They do not have kids.) He is also considering changing jobs and I’m pretty sure she has a big say over that, too. She directs him; I don’t think he would know what to do with himself without her dictating to him.

          The other woman, as you noted, plans family vacations. But if they go out as a couple, she determines where they will go and when they will leave. He may complain about where they go on vacation and she’ll tell him to research and pick a different place, but he never does. I think he wants her to make the decisions.

          Btw, both of these guys lived with their mothers until they got married. They have never lived on their own. It’s quite common for the town I live in. And then the mother-in-law will buy the house next door to the couple. That would drive me to drink, but, to each his own.

  7. 7
    Lisa

    This is the problem with alpha females we end up with beta men and we are not attracted to that as we want men to match our own masculine features.  But Alpha men are not attracted to us.  It takes a really long time to meet a man who matches you and is not beta.  So no there is nothing wrong with wanting a more masculine man, just know it’s going to be tough to find if you are an alpha female.  I found one but it took 10 years!

    1. 7.1
      Michele

      This is so true.  Alpha females are highly attracted to alpha males.  Sadly, alpha males are often repulsed by alpha females.  Alpha males have the pick of the litter and they are going to choose a beautiful, feminine, beta female almost every time.

  8. 8
    Jonathan

    I make 400k a year. I make homemade pizza and pasta, and I do my own laundry. I ski, race sailboats, and drive a Porsche to work. And at work I’m witty and funny.

    But I live in Seattle and can’t get a date to save my life. Is it because I’m only 5′ 5″, and no woman wants to date short men, or because I can cook and clean for myself, and don’t “need” a women for that kind of support.

    I’ve dated Alpha women, and Beta women. And while I prefer smart successful women, I don’t seem meet their standards. If I’m in the 1%, except for height, I really feel sorry for all the other men out there.

    I’m frustrated and, after following Evan’s blog’s for years, and reading about all the unrealistic expectations women have, I’ve given up on dating and finding a woman who wants to share a life together. This latest post just confirms my doubts about women. And no, I haven’t taken the Red Pill.

    These days, if a man plan the dates and vacations, were are insensitive for not taking the woman’s wants into consideration. If we ask for the woman’s input, we are weak Beta’s who can’t make a decision.

    What’s interesting is that while women’s choices and educational opportunities expands and improves, their overall happiness continues to decline.

    Sorry about the rant. It’s just that after all the hard work and sacrifices to be successful, and with the hope of finding a great companion to enjoy a fun and exciting life together, it seems to be all for naught.

     

    1. 8.1
      Bronze

      Gosh!  You certainly seem to make a wasteland of the stereotype that all women only want a rich man and will put up with any kind of trash for money (see Hefner, Trump, Sheen etc. – but I tend to think that it’s only trash that will put up rich trash?).  It certainly can’t be your height!  I know so many teeny tiny women that would have to be shorter than you – so you must have plenty of shorter women to choose from?  My recent, most adored ex was a very rich man who earned far more than you and got women who were taller than him so I’m not sure height is a factor here.  One of the things he liked about me was that I was shorter than him, lol..

      It can only be the type of women you are targetting?  Are you only going for Playboy bunny types?  These women will throw you over if she even whiffs a better meal ticket. Most people I know have met their spouses at work or at University (college) or via mutual friends. Maybe it’s time to start socialising in the circles you can see yourself building a good network in. Also, smart successful women don’t care about money (I certainly don’t) so your salary and car will not impress me.  Your brain, values, morals, family, attitude and level of EMPATHY is going to be what I decide on.  Empathy is something a lot of men don’t have naturally and need to cultivate.  If you are witty and funny at work – surely you can meet someone there?

      I hope you find the key soon.  I definitely know that if a woman has her own money than yours isn’t really going to be the deciding factor on which she has a relationship with you. If she is a Hefner type – than you’d have her already, I presume.  off topic I know, but when I watch young gorgeous girls cosying up to the most decrepit, disgusting human specimens alive, my skin actually crawls and I can’t understand how they can overcome their own bile rising to do anything with them!!  They all must be on drugs that help them overcome wanting to throw up.  All for money!! I become ashamed of my own sex when I see it, that’s for sure. Good luck.

      1. 8.1.1
        Morris

        I agree with everything you said here. Except “Also, smart successful women don’t care about money”. You don’t. Which is refreshing. But  I’m pretty sure that’s not the experience the vast majority of men have with successful woman. It’s been touched on quite a few times. Successful/Educated women tend to want someone their ‘equal’.

        1. Stacy2

          I don’t think this is a true statement. Women with money care about money. Volumes of research support that so don’t take my word for it. But they are less likely to be impressed by it. A Porsche to work would only make me roll my eyes and  conjure up the image of Bill Lumerg from Office Space in my mind. “Whaaats happening?” LOL

        2. Henriette

          @Morris: When I was younger, I didn’t care one whit whether or not a fellow had any money.  Now I’ve changed my mind; while I still don’t need a guy to be my financial equal, I’ve come to realise that a man earning enough money to pay his own bills (when living like an adult: eg, not sleeping on friends’ floors) and stocking a bit away in a nest egg most months, indicates a stable character and sound judgement.   I suspect many successful/educated women feel the same as I do.

        3. Morris

          Stacy2 & Henriette – I’m not sure what you are getting at. I didn’t say ALL successful/educated women want an ‘equal’. But the majority do. I think it’s safe to go even further. Women in general want at least an ‘equal’ in this regard. And men want younger women. Not sure why this is a surprise.

           

           

          Just ask any of your guy friends who have tried online dating. Ask them if the majority of women have criteria. It’s been a few years since I was in the dating market. But I highly doubt things have changed that much. But I could be wrong.

    2. 8.2
      Jess

      No, it is not your height. Yes, there are going to be women who will not consider you because of your height ( especially those who are much taller than you!).  My family includes many men who are around 5′, and they have no trouble attracting women. In fact, one family member who is 5’9″ and a lot more physically attractive than another who is only 5’2″, is jealous of the shorter guy’s success with women. The difference? Their personalities.

       

      This statement that you have made, in particular is a bit troubling “These days, if a man plan the dates and vacations, were are insensitive for not taking the woman’s wants into consideration. If we ask for the woman’s input, we are weak Beta’s who can’t make a decision.”. There is obviously a huge difference between a man who acts totally helpless and refuses to add any input or make any decisions ( my ex-husband) and a guy who steam-rolls over others and only does what he wants. If you are having trouble realizing that no one is going to like any person, male or female in either extreme, then that is definitely a problem.

    3. 8.3
      Erin

      Greetings Jonathan from a fellow Seattleite with her own boat and secure income.  You sound interesting and you’re even taller than my last serious boyfriend! 😉

      Let me know if you’d like to grab drinks, even if only to talk about the local dating scene.  Otherwise may I suggest down-playing your success at the initial stages of dating?  I am in your financial league but I live such that casual acquaintances think I am a grad student or creative type (ex: graphic artist).  Maybe I am in the minority, but men who discuss their incomes and display signs of wealth (like a photo of you standing in front of a fancy car) in early dating make me uncomfortable.  I worry that they are trying to “buy” me or that we simply have different life priorities.

      honour 98 at gmail

    4. 8.4
      Liz

      Why are you on a dating advice website?

  9. 9
    Jonathan

    Thanks for all the responses. I didn’t intend to change the course of the current discussion to my dating problems. I have a good life, great friends, and I’m very happy.

    Bronze, you don’t get it. I am a fairly successful guy, but dating is still difficult for me. And I don’t go after Playboy Bunnies. nor would I want to. My GF during graduate school was 50 lbs overweight and blind in one eye. But she was smart, hard working, and most important. she liked being with me.

    Morris, I agree. Women tend to marry up, not down. But I know a few exceptions, and many with terrible outcomes.

    I played the Porsche card to see what the reaction would be. Very interesting. I know that women don’t care about fancy cars, just clean ones. When I park my Porsche, I only get attention from two groups, 12 year old boys, and 60 year old guys, who want to talk about the Porsche they had before they got married and had to sell it. I’ve never posted a photo of my car in any of my online dating profiles.

    However, If I want to park my Porsche at a high end Seattle hotel, it’s no problem to leave it in front. They don’t let me do that in my Subaru ski car.

    Jess, I have dated from 5′ to 5′ 10 inches. I’ve found the shorter women want or chose, much taller men. While the tall women are a little more forgiving in the height region. Just ask any 6′ woman about her dating prospects. However, I’d be happy to take any 6′ woman out and have a great time. Folks seeing us walking down the street, and holding hands, would ask themselves, how rich I was or how big my personality was, because it couldn’t be because we like each other.

    When it comes to cooking, I like to think about the movie “5 Easy Pieces”. It’s the same thing. Have a few good meals that you can whip up anytime and anyplace. Keep it simple.

    Erin…..

     

     

     

     

     

  10. 10
    David

    Johnathan

    There’s another aspect that hasn’t been mentioned. Your physical looks. Like you i too am a self made millionaire.  I have plenty of luxuries to surround myself with including lots of fake friends who want me to pay their bills. But I was fat and didn’t look after my self which is ironic given how much i have spent on friends and dating. After my last breakup i slid into deep depression. I convinced myself that i would never get married. So i decided to look after my health since I was going to be alone anyways. After losing a lot of weight and gaining a better physique i started to get a lot of response from women. I look back at my old pics and realized that even in though i am in my 30’s i looked more than 45. Finally i meet the girl i always wanted. And I can truly say that for the first time I am in true love. Now i don’t feel the need for fake friends or family member who want a loan. I’ve told her i love her but she hasn’t said it back. I guess she is the shy type. But her actions says a lot more than i ever seen anyone do for me. I know she cares for me. And if this thing doesn’t work out the Almighty is going to have a hard time looking me in the eye.

    So my dear Johnathan would you care to share your physical stats?

  11. 11
    Anastasia

    I’m a masculine energy woman, unlike the OP. I have almost no femininity, despite having a very feminine body type. I’d love to meet a Beta man who has feminine energy and wants a more dominant/take charge kind of mate. Unfortunately, it seems like all the guys in my area are of the Alpha type. 🙁

  12. 12
    Andrew

    and a guy is not supposed to hate or resent taking the lead, taking initiative, thats what bothers and pisses me off the most

  13. 13
    loubelle

    I am a very girly girl and look after myself but i take to both ‘roles’ easily. I think maybe its because i was a single parent for a long time and HAD  to do those things. I do all the DIY, fixing, (as is safe to do so), cooking, cleaning, shopping, caregiving etc. I also seem to end up with men who arent very ‘manly’. They always say they do DIY and are a mans man, until their feet are under the table lol. so many times. So as much as we can ask these questions before getting too deep , people can lie and do. you can only take people on face value and their word at the time. I was also ‘expected’ to do everything and look after the man i think thats because im a strong woman and they feel threatened at times. Boys are threatened by a real strong multi faceted woman,  a man isnt.

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