If You Are Short, Fat, Older or An Asian Man, You Must Read This. But Especially If You’re Short.

If you’re a regular reader, you probably knew that I was on the CBS Early Show in July. Appearing with me was one of my all-time favorite clients, Tom Pandolfo. Charming, charismatic, successful, warm, athletic… Tom has it all. The only thing missing in his life is a woman. So, after hiring me as his dating coach, we set to work in rebranding him on Match.com.

We took new professional photos. We had Tom fill out my long questionnaire and submit to an hour of questions from me on the phone. We wrote two new profile essays that were unique, funny and confident. We renamed him “LookMaNoHair.”

And we watched as his in-box filled up with interested women.

You can see what a great experience it was in this CBS Early Show clip:

What I haven’t yet mentioned is that Tom Pandolfo is 5’3″.
Height doesn't define a man as a husbandI didn’t want to mention it for the same reason that Tom didn’t want to mention it in his profile: because it’s irrelevant to anything that makes him a good accountant, husband, or father. Yet his height defines him, since it has prevented otherwise interested women from being interested in him over the course of his entire life.

Height is irrelevant to anything that makes a man a good husband or father.

This instantly reminded me of a story that ABC did years ago on this very issue.

To see if the women would go for short guys who were successful, ABCNEWS’ Lynn Sherr created extraordinary résumés for the shorter men. She told the women that the shorter men included a doctor, a best-selling author, a champion skier, a venture capitalist who’d made millions by the age of 25.

Nothing worked. The women always chose the tall men. Sherr asked whether there’d be anything she could say that would make the shortest of the men, who was 5 feet, irresistible. One of the women replied, “Maybe the only thing you could say is that the other four are murderers.” Another backed her up, saying that had the taller men had a criminal record she might have been swayed to choose a shorter man. Another said she’d have considered the shorter men, if the taller men had been described as “child molesters.”

Lest you think this is an example of reality TV finding evidence to support a story, Tom tried his own experiment last week. Sure enough, few women give a fair shake to a man who is 5’3”, no matter what else he has going for him.

I’m going to let Tom take it from here.

So I tried changing my profile for three days just to see what the difference was between being 5’3″ and 5’10”. I wanted to know if height was the only difference and the constant deal breaker. So I moved my profile from Pittsburgh and posted it for 3 days in a town where nobody knew me (Philadelphia). Here’s what I found:

5’3” in Pittsburgh5’10” in Philadelphia
Mutual matches080
Reverse matches12400
Petite women w/pics w/in 50 miles45650
Views in 3 days11212
Emails received – unsolicited032
Winks received – unsolicited228
Emails sent out66
Replies received to emails sent out06

 

This proves, in stark and undeniable terms, two things:…

Life – and people – can be incredibly unfair. We talked about this just the other day. People want what they want. They’re attracted to what they’re attracted to. And no amount of complaining is going to change it.

Oh, and I am one helluva dating coach. 60 unsolicited contacts in three days? Six replies from six emails sent? Come on. That’s pretty damn good!

Okay, I’m kidding about the last part, but only because I’m so serious about the rest of this. Really, it kills me.

Why, in God’s name, is it important for women to stand on tiptoes to kiss a guy?

Believe me, Tom is no “woe-is-me” kind of guy. He’s just been confronted with a very ugly reality that has shaken his confidence in people. And even though we had good initial results, the fact remains, empirically: women don’t want short men.

And although you can feel free to substitute “older women”, “older men”, “heavier women”, or “Asian men”, I honestly feel that nobody gets a rawer deal than short guys.

Honestly, ladies…You can get your own dishes from the top shelf. You don’t really need to feel “protected” from the dangers of suburbia. And why, in God’s name, is it important to stand on your tiptoes to kiss a guy?

So how about it, women? Is there any legitimate reason not to go out with this amazing, amazing man?

Talk to me. I want to hear the truth.

Join our conversation (1,559 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 1051
    Liam

    I’m 5′ 6″.  I never felt limited in any way.  Played high school sports with all the big guys, played college football for a couple of years, married a beautiful woman, and I run my own business and make plenty of money.  The only thing that I have found that bugs me is the occasional person who labels me with a Napoleon complex.  I don’t get it.  So if I was equally as successful, and I was 6′, I would just be successful.  Whatever.  I just choose to control the things I can control.  Maybe I just wasn’t perceptive enough when I was in the dating world to notice that women weren’t attracted to me because of my height…I was too busy getting laid.

    1. 1051.1
      Corey N

      At 5’6 you are taller than 83% of women in the USA. Trying being 5’2.

  2. 1052
    Dale Rebelle

    yeah, not going to sugarcoat it, there is 5’9″ short and there is 5’3″ short and worlds apart in their affects.  I don’t mean this sarcastically, but you gain 3″ with platform shoes.  With almost any other thing that people are conscious about, weight, big nose, fat…etc etc there are ways, surgery and such that can maybe help, but with height the only thing I can think is platform shoes, wear clothes the have parallel lines running from top down, don’t tuck in shirt or wear a belt.

  3. 1053
    Short Guy

    Being a 5 foot tall guy, I know the struggles.  However, I overcame it in an unconventional way.  A few years ago, I watched a documentary about prisons.  I noticed that all inmates, whether they were tall or short, had girlfriend.  Some had several.  This gave me an idea.  I decided not to be the nice guy anymore and treated women like crap.  Believe it or not, it actually got me results.  I’ve gotten many one night stands and a few long term relationships.  Basically, it’s better to make a woman cry than make her smile.  The expression nice guys finish last is very true.  To the guys struggling, try being more like those inmates.  For some reason, this triggers their emotions, which they can’t resist

    1. 1053.1
      HH

      You’re dating damaged trash, that’s why it “works”. Not everyone wants to do that, though.

      A man that would even try to “make me cry” would never see me again.

       

       

    2. 1053.2
      Callie

      Just feel it’s important to point out: if you are able to change yourself into a bad person, if you are comfortable hurting others so that you can benefit from it, if you are the kind of person who says it’s better to make a woman cry than smile (by which you mean it’s easier to get laid if you make a woman cry than smile) then dude, I’ve got news for you: you were never a nice guy. Not ever. A truly kind human being wouldn’t decide ever to be a horrible one just so he can get laid. They would rather forgo relationships than even think of hurting another human being.

      You’re a bad guy. And you always were.

      1. 1053.2.1
        Short Guy

        Hey, you got to do what needs to be done to be successful.  Every successful person to some extent has lied, cheated, and stolen something.  You will never see a successful saint

      2. 1053.2.2
        Corey N

        Callie,

        How is it that tall bay boys are OK?

      3. 1053.2.3
        Adam

        Callie,

        “A truly kind human being wouldn’t decide ever to be a horrible one just so he can get laid.”

        What you’re saying makes perfect sense. But I do understand his perspective. When a man cannot get sex  at all, ever, its an existential crisis the likes of which you can’t comprehend. I know ‘getting laid’ sounds sort of blithe – and it is if you have no problem doing it – but when a guy can’t it just destroys his mental health. Feminists talk about men who feel entitled to sex – and of course no woman owes any man anything – but its not just a sense of entitlement that makes guys act this way – it really is the reason we were put here and it kills us when we can’t do it.

        I hope this helps you at least understand – if not support – why many of us turn to PUA and the like.

        x

  4. 1054
    Herb

    I am a short guys I’ve had sex with taller girl than me. I am 5’3 and some girls just seem to like me there is everything for everyone out there do the feel bad about your height. Some girls like short guys some girls like tall guys. If you are talking about what you lie then you have no say so honestly. I mean I am a shorty and some girls do like short guys we probably don’t get as much but hey there are girls out there that like short dudes. My girlfriend is actually shorter then and I can tell she really likes me. Honestly. All the short guy stuff is rational thinking I’m not gonna live my life insecure about myself because of my height just like you girls feel insecure about your weight so idk why girls point out height. If they don’t like then hey move on. Society is what messes with short guys that this and that and blah blah. Nah I’m not gonna live my that way. I’ve had way taller girls flirt with me and they ain’t bad looking. They just don’t flirt in front of people because of what society has tried or has manipulated people to think about short dudes. I can show proof that I had a girl maybe about my height or taller that some girls like you for you if you are chill. If are a boring ass dude then hey better start being cool to hang out with. Of course most my friends are taller then me but they like me. I must be a cool dude. I am not gonna live my life by Dogma I am straight fuck that. Life is to enjoy and stop letting people put shit into your head if you are short. Like I said yeah whatever females like tall ass dudes but what about the dudes 3inches taller then. They are avergae. Yes we are short but some females like that. I am happy with myself why should I be insecure because of what the majority of people want to judge me as because of my height. I am Latino I might not be the best looking but hey I get some girls. I don’t mean to brag but I’m just talking for the dudes that are insecure of their height because of society. Some girls like short men. Shorter or taller. I’ve had sex with a girl that is like 5’9 and she still liked the dick. Like I said I might not get by the bunch but hey I still get bitchez. Fuck all that shit this girl or guy is saying. I get a few female’s here and there. I am not gonna live in Dogma once again but I just wanted to put it out there. Some girls/women like short men I am speaking from experience.

  5. 1055
    Bee

    I am 5’4 and I would date a 5’4. But I do not want to look down on a man, sorry.

    However, I have plenty of girlfriends who are way shorter than I am (5’4 is a bit above average for women in my country), why would a petite woman refuse to date a man who is taller than her? I don’t get it.

    BTW, I do not like to stand on tiptoes to kiss a guy, so taller than 5’11 is too tall for me. However, if his only flaw is that he’s too tall, I would still date him.

    1. 1055.1
      CoreyN

      In other words, you do have problem with shorter men but not taller men. Too tall you would still date, but too short no. Heightist…

      1. 1055.1.1
        Bee

        Yes and No, CoreyN:

        I would date “short men” but not shorter than me.
        These are two different things – I am not tall at all. And I would have no problem with a man my height, even though he would be considered very “short” by society.
        Evan wrote that even petite women refuse to date short men – even though they are taller than they are.

         

        1. CoreyN

          Nice try but you still cannot crawl out from the contradiction stated previously.

  6. 1056
    Keith

    If anyone has seen my previous posts I’ve composed you’ll know my thesis is: futility. I’ve actually thought about forming a blog and then subsequent book called “Out of Our Hands: The Futility of Dating for Men” since so much of dating for men is based on aspects beyond their control. Per the entire saga we’ve all commented on: height. A man cannot change his height.

    Repeat and say it with me: A MAN CAN’T CHANGE HIS HEIGHT.

    Ok now that we’ve confirmed that men cannot change their heights, can we agree, then, that that one aspect of dating (height) is out of his control? When women do that, when they realize that a man cannot change his height, then maybe what they’ll do is begin the process by which they admit, “OK, maybe we can empathize a little with the men whose money we take on a first date and how they must feel when we: A) Don’t even show up B) Aren’t even pleasant company on said date or C) Send out a rescue text D) Come up with a lame excuse not to have a second date.”

    I wrote one post about that word “empathy”. One situation men historically have found themselves is they can’t be sad. Under any circumstances. If they were to be, then they’re “whiners” no matter what it is they’re discussing that makes them sad. When Warren Farrell released his “Myth of Male Power: Why Men are the Disposable Sex” guess what many feminists decried him as- a whiner. Well, discounting the fact men work much more dangerous jobs for longer hours farther from their homes, they’d be whining claiming that in light of the wage gap dispute, right? Or discounting the fact that men die on average 7-10 years younger than women yet breast cancer has its own month, I’d be griping if I pointed that out, right? Or discounting the fact that a female teacher hugging a boy is “motherly” or “nurturing” and for a male teacher to do the same act to a girl is “pedophilic” and “creepy”, in the face of a myriad of other social double standards in women’s favor, right? I could go on but you see my point: issue that negatively affect women are dismissed essentially and when a given man tries to raise awareness of those issues, then, he’s likely to be labeled a “whiner” without being heard. Hence Farrell’s other book that preceded TMOMP “Women Can’t Hear What Men Don’t Say” which shed light on marital communication gaps, and isn’t that true as a universal statement regarding gender communication, married couples notwithstanding?

    It’s not that men “whine” because “whining” does not accomplish anything. On the contrary, when I write a post on this thread, it’s to raise awareness of things men don’t discuss because they’re silenced with “whining” than even being heard. Well, what I’m here to say is that a man cannot change his height, nor can he change how he makes a woman “feel”- that is completely up to her and that’s the frustration men deal with that women don’t have to: being judged for things that are beyond your control. A woman has the peace of mind, “OK as long as I’m hot I can put up a dating profile and choose to accept a free meal or drink out of the men who e-mail me; if I don’t feel like online dating, then I’ll just go out in public and wait for a man to pay me attention. Done.” Probably 8 out of 10 men can’t say that, and really, the best way to describe what I’ve discussed here is the experience an unattractive women has. It’s truly heart-breaking what an unattractive woman goes through and I’d challenge anyone reading this to Google, “Life as an ugly woman” and you’ll see some very tear-inducing personal narratives.

    I conclude with that to give any woman reading this that perspective: if you feel that you’re not valued, then try being a (short) man for a week and you’ll see what feeling devalued is all about, but if you don’t want to spring for a sex change, then observe how an ugly woman is treated the next time you people watch. You should notice how she’s > likely not with a man, nor are people particularly friendly toward her, and overall, she isn’t given the celebrity treatment a young, beautiful woman receives….just as a (short) man doesn’t.

  7. 1057
    Keith

    *issues that negatively affect me are dismissed

  8. 1059
    Katie

    I agree that girls need to get over this height obsession.

     

    At least half of the guys I’ve crushed on and had serious relationships with have been shorter than me. And I’m pretty average height for an American chic, 5’6. It wasn’t their shortness that attracted me to them,  I jokingly lament with friends about constantly ending up with the shorter guys, but a super confident attitude that they often project. I don’t know what it is.  Sure it’s not turn-on to look down on a guy, but if the guy is intelligent (I’m SUCH a sapiophile!), confident and we connect emotionally and cerebrally then game on, baby!

  9. 1060
    Gena

    Honestly, I was seeing a guy who is shorter than me (i’m 175cm and he is 170cm).

    I look more of alike a cucumber (longer bone structure,  I generally look like a model, pretty – too many men let me know about it)

    and he is more of alike a potato (athletic type of body, stocky… charming and hot too).

    After 6 months of, I can’t even call it a relationship, but it was me who tried to make him believe I was taking him seriously. (we started very well, roses, dinners, etc). Great connection, sex. He could be emotional, full of drama. Could be passive aggressive and do all those manipulations. Paying attention to all these details made me question if he was actually a psychopath. Then all of a sudden he could shut and stop sharing thoughts and so on. Jealousy was here as well. We could walk on a street and if a random man turned back to look at me I could smell this short guy brain burning as that jealous he was. I only felt it with my guts, as he would never say anything confirming his jealousy. So I felt like in a return I’ll be just supportive of his flaws coz probably those are feelings underneath… I really liked him, yes that short potato guy, I really wanted us (cucumber+potato) to work…
    So, I wanted him to reach the point of realization if he wants to be (finally! how tired i was!) in the damn relationship with me and if no then it’s better to part our ways… it took him two weeks! And I had to push on him to get any answer from him as he would not give me any. “Oh common, after 6 months you had no idea where you were standing? seriously?! “, I was wondering. He said stuff to me after which I asked not to contact me anymore… In the end he twisted things and made it the way that it was me annoying with myself as he …blocked my number. Why would not you just say it in a polite way “let’s stop the communication, I agree it’s not going anywhere for us” and so on. But to me it looks like a form of a revenge as I saw him that morning and later in the day I figured out the blockage. Insane. And guess what I gut? Sadly his height problem.
    I hope sharing this helped to someone xx

     

  10. 1061
    HH

    I never could understand the obsession of some women with height. Myself I find short men quite sexy; certainly a man’s height is not even a consideration to me. Well… that’s not entirely true:  he shouldn’t be too tall. I find very tall men, especially is they are also thin, quite off-putting.

    I am exactly the European/USA average height, BTW, so not “tall” at all.

     

  11. 1062
    Susan

    Yawn… it is because women are sexual beings and shock horror, many of us fantasise about a man being big and strong enough to hold us up during a hot and steamy sexual encounter. Sorry, I shouldn’t speak for other women, this is my reason only for specific physical attributes in men. Maybe acknowledging that women are no different from men when it comes to physical attractiveness and sexual appetite, especially in the early stages of courtship.  I’m sure there would be many short, interesting loving women interest in this guy, did he give these women a fair go ?  That would be interesting to know.

    1. 1062.1
      Tyrone

      Just speculation obviously, but I’d say if it was strictly based on height, I’d bet he did give them a fair go. Men in general don’t seem to care about height the way women do. Not saying it doesn’t ever happen (I’m sure it does), but anecdotally, I’ve never personally heard a man say he rejected a women specifically for her height. Where as I have heard women say it to me personally (I’m 5’10” and have been told I’m not tall enough many times), heard them say it about other men, seen it in online dating profiles, etc. watched women laugh about a man hitting on them at the bar being too short to even have a chance.

       

      Once, I was talking to a woman and she quickly let me know that she didn’t date short men or black men. I said it was a good thing I hadn’t asked her on date and was just trying to make friendly conversation. So she lightened up and we were able to just chat. Eventually, we circled back to the earlier statements about whom she does/doesn’t date. She said she was on the defensive because she get hit on by so many men she considers to be undesirable, which I get. I asked her about the kind of guys she likes and she tells me (they needed to be over 6′ hence my being “short”). But she noted that too often the men she likes take issue with her having several young children and says that it’s bullshit. I say that I can understand their concern, being someone that feels similarly about dating women with young children. She got pissed, and raised her voice saying things like “What’s wrong with a women with kids?” and “You guys are so unrealistic. It’s natural for women to have kids!” and “You guys complain that you can’t meet anyone, but you won’t give a women a chance because she has children!” and “It takes a real man accept a women and her children, something you “boys” wouldn’t know anything about!” Then she stormed off.

       

    2. 1062.2
      Keith

      Susan,

      To answer your question, I’ve never had any “interestling, loving women” interested in me in my life. So if these aforementioned women would express an interest in me, sure, I’d give them a go- but that scenario is non-existent.

      I don’t feel like repeating myself so I’ll keep it as succinct as this: WE CAN’T CHANGE OUR HEIGHTS. A man is born with it and, possibly, has a better chance if he has access to adequate nutrition during his formative years, though that’s more like 25% of what determines height. We like pointing to “research” saying that because in our “I can do anything if I just set my mind to it” culture we don’t want to admit that some things are beyond our control: our stature being one of them.

      One question I’ve been curious about and I haven’t really seen raised here is: “What about domestic violence?” It seems odd to me that, with the passage of the Violence Against Women Act, despite 3 women/week dying from domestic violence (though I’m curious how  “domestic violence” is defined legally), women still prefer men, almost literally, twice their sizes. I mean I always wonder when I see a woman no taller than 5’4 with a man who’s no shorter than 6’2 and easily 100 lbs heavier, “Isn’t she a little scared whenever they have an argument?” The irony is, since you brought it up then, Susan, is you yearn so much for “big and strong” yet you don’t stop to think, “Well what if he’s ‘big and strong’ and wants to kick my ass?”

      I’m not condoning violence against women but I am pointing out that any woman who points to domestic violence statistics ought to consider the risk she takes when choosing a much larger man as her partner. I don’t think anyone, as far as I know, has pointed that out and I think it’s worth of consideration that when women employ heightism as a way to reject male suitors that they should know that they’re less likely to evade and resist a man that much larger than they are as compared to a man of smaller stature. In fact, intuitively, you’d think that a woman would be AFRAID to date a man that much larger than she is for that very reason and to choose a man she who wouldn’t have such a size advantage over her (literally).

      I think what I just alluded to may point out something I struggle with every day and that is: the ignoring of men’s problems. I think we still cling to the notion that it’s a “man’s world” or a “patriarchical society” without acknowledging that men are completely more likely to be victims of assault or homicide by other men and that men commit suicide far more than women and that men, on average, die 7-10 years younger than women. What overshadows all of that is a paradigm that I feel women have toward men who point out an issue that isn’t fair: that of the “whiner”. I’ve seen some of the replies some of the women have toward men who say that it’s not fair that they prefer taller men and it reinforces this to me. I think if more women showed some empathy toward shorter men that they’d feel better about themselves in that they’re not held to a standard that they have no control over. While, yes, I’ll be the first to admit I’d like to date a woman I’m physically attracted to, at least that woman can have some control over her appearance whereas a man is basically SOL if he stands no taller than 5’9 (basically anything under 6′).

      It really should be, in my opinion, a protected class to be short. Why African-Americans, women, etc. are “protected” classes but short men aren’t, I will never understand…it’s bad enough that it’s so prevalent in their love lives.

  12. 1063
    Jennybird

    I took Evan’s advice and opened myself up to other races. I met a Chinese man I liked very much, but it didn’t go anywhere. In spite of that, though, I’m glad I took Evan’s advice. It wasn’t something I consciously did, I guess I always just went for whites because I was white.  And that disqualifies a lot of potentially good men. So I will continue to expand my horizons when it comes to race.

  13. 1064
    Susan

    Keith

    I find your domestic violence argument pretty vile and scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as trying to convince women they should chose men they are not interested in. Domestic violence has nothing to do with height, in fact it doesn’t necessarily need to be physical either. To squash your argument though, I find larger men to be less threatening and scary because they are already conscious of looking that way. So they tend to be less aggressive. The truly scary men are those men who harbour deep seated anger and resentment, especially at women who don’t give them the attention they feel they deserve or suffer repeated rejection. Sorry, but they tend to be shorter, fitter to make up for it and mix in a bit of entitlement issues and rejection and you have yourself a very scary man, all packaged however as a ‘nice guy’. So to sum it up, height is a non issue where domestic violence is concerned.

    Keith, please stop trying to convince women that they need to change who they feel genuinely attracted to or that we owe short men ’empathy’ because of their height. Not all women are height obsessed but please accept that just like men, women are free to pick and choose partners of their liking. Truth is, most women don’t get what they want, we suffer rejection too but speaking for myself only, I cop it on the chin and move on. I respect a mans choice to say no to me, why can’t you respect a woman’s choice to either want or reject you ? You do sound a bit bitter and angry and it must be frustrating to focus purely on your height as the reason women reject you but maybe that’s not the whole story. Men think they can hide anger but no matter how much they try, it’s there. Ask yourself if you truly respect women and her right to choose men for herself ? Or do you think she needs to change to accomodate your height ? If it’s the latter, you have some thinking to do. Get out there, approach women in person, start up a conversation and see where it goes. But please, lose the ‘entitled to women’ anger. It’s the biggest turn off of all and we can smell it a mile away.

     

     

     

  14. 1065
    Keith

    Miss Susan,

    I don’t see in my comment were I said a man was “owed” anything not he was “entitled” to anything. Furthermore, I’m not sure where I’m persuading any woman to reject a much larger man than she is. I think what’s more accurate to draw from my statement is simply to keep it in mind when you (you as in any heterosexual female) list height as your ne plus ultra for what makes a man someone to have for relationship partner. Without condescending or patronizing (and that is not my intent at all), I feel it’s common sense that for a woman to choose a man who’s considerably larger and stronger than she is, that it could be dangerous given the fear and paranoia that we have over domestic abuse. Maybe it’s been your experience that larger men than you are “less threatening” but allow me to cite an example: O.J. Simpson. Simpson was 6’1-6’3, probably outweighed Nicole Brown by a minimum of 100 lbs, and was a career professional football player. Obviously, per the 911 calls that were aired during the trial, we all know he battered her. That’s probably the more infamous of examples I could cite, but we all know that in the last decade that some professional athletes (in which size is an asset) have been exposed as being batterers. I don’t think I’m being particularly “vile” pointing out size discrepancies between battered women and their assailants, and I’m not sure why you’d conclude that.

    I’m not particularly short, I’m 5’9, but obviously I’m not “tall” either. Most of my life, I’ve had to look up to most post-pubescent men and it’s been experience that taller men (at least 6′) aren’t particularly friendly. They’re usually rude, arrogant, and disrespectful, and that’s what’s aggravating is A) They’re still seen as “leaders” due to their heights and B) That behavior is rewarded by women flocking to them both due to their heights and their being “bad boys”. Maybe it’s just chance that we’ve had different experiences but, usually, I find not-that-tall men as being friendlier and more approachable than tall men who are conditioned to be pampered (I went to high school with a famous athlete, too, so I feel I’m somewhat qualified to observe that).

    This whole thread isn’t to deprive a woman from her right to choose her partner, but it’s just to give short men’s sides of the story, and that’s where the empathy comes in. From most of the comments on this thread (yours included) I’ve observed many women get extremely defensive. Take you for example: you use a word like “vile” to describe my point and you call me “bitter and angry.” Where exactly am I bitter-sounding for pointing out that if a man were to become violent that if he had at least 6 inches and 75 lbs on a woman that she’d probably be at a disadvantage in evading the situation much less defending herself? I’m trying to make a point that it’s interesting that domestic violence and women’s preference for much larger men (than they are) aren’t compared more, and if I may speak frankly, I feel it’s dismissive to say that “height is a non issue where domestic violence is concerned.”

    Perception aside, if you would, just stop to think: that man probably has always been rejected and it’s all he’s known. Being angry about it wont’ solve that but what do you expect? Again this is where the empathy comes in: you don’t have to be his girlfriend but what I think more men would like from women is just not to be construed as “bitter and angry” when it must be really sad that they have to live their lives knowing women don’t find them attractive. I lost my father this year to cancer and I never brought a woman to meet my parents since I never dated anyone seriously because everytime I tried whether in college, the military, or as a civilian adult, no one wanted me as her boyfriend. Do you understand?

    Yes it is your right/privilege to be attracted to whomever you want. But understand, though, that unless you’ve been a constantly-rejected man for something he can’t do anything about that it’s not “empathy” to say, “Oh he just feels ‘entitled'” when all he feels “entitled” to is being looked at for more than just his height measurement.

    Thank you.

  15. 1066
    Susan

    Hi Keith,

    Lots of complex topics have been brought up from the original topic and would be great to expand on them and clarify where we seem to be missing each other’s point a bit but might be going too much on a tangent. I love the discussion though.  Curiously, do you engage in internet dating ? If so, toss it out the window. I tried it once but it quickly put me off the human race, both men and women showing the uglier side of themselves so decided to give it a big miss.

    Keith, if you are 5 foot 9 in height, I dare say that height is not the reason women are overlooking you. You are not short.  On a dating site perhaps because it’s so easy to cull people based on specific traits they consider deal breakers, based in pure BS however but just a means of narrowing down the selection process. Some people just get too much attention and it becomes overwhelming. Anyway, have you considering approaching women in person ? I say this because although it doesn’t happen often, I have been approached by men in some unusual, unlikely situations. Theses men are polite, respectful, engaging and not the least bit sleazy. I admire their guts for the  personal approach, it’s quite daunting and scary for both parties but I respect and love the effort and bravery so always respond in a gracious and respectful manner. One trait I truly admire and respect in men is being able to accept a ‘no’ with good manners. I hope most women are polite to men who approach them with respect, because face to face communication and engagement is by far the best way of meeting people. The most recent guy was not very tall at all actually, maybe a little taller than me, 5 foot 4, I really don’t know, I didn’t measure him !! But he presented well, was articulate, tried to make me laugh so why would I say no to an impromptu coffee invite in a very public place mid morning ?

    Give it a go Keith. Maybe you could approach women by saying your doing research on finding alternative ways of meeting new people, instead of Internet dating ? I’m sure this topic would resonate with many people who find it quite painful. I apologise for saying you sound bitter and angry if you are not, but please take on board that with much of what you have said, you might not be projecting yourself as you think you are or as you would like to be seen. It would be nice to jump off the gender divide that seems to dominate many internet forums and start by first treating each other like human beings and embracing all our similarities with our needs and wants before charging into defending our differences.

    Mall the best Keith and to everyone else as well.

     

    1. 1066.1
      Keith

      Here’s what women don’t understand…

      What they “recommend” would send a man to jail.

      OK. You say “approach”, right? Well, any researcher will tell you, first off, that right off the bat, when people know they’re being sampled for a research study that will have to be taken into consideration when interpreting your results. Whenever women are asked a question about how they would react in a given situation (this one being “approached”), the answer is very general such as  “It depends”, right? The point I’m making is, before online dating, when men (men being the “pursuers”) “approached” it was usually in an organic way, like he didn’t TRY to talk to her. See, it’s such a myth that men have “lines” or they have “game” or they’re “pick-up artists”. Before online dating, you just met people through work or through friends and OCCASIONALLY by chance, but to think that men necessarily “approached” or “pursued” women would be assuming the Moon Landing was a “hoax”- I mean, sure, it’s “possible” but it’s not very likely.

      Anyway, when it comes to dating, per the whole reason we’re here discussing women’s preference for a physical feature men have no control over, men really don’t have legs to stand on since their dating prospects have to “feel” something and even if a man is groomed, stable, educated, employed, non-violent, etc….it really doesn’t matter if
      it’s just not ‘there.'” George Sodini and Elliot Rodger (Google them) couldn’t get the help they needed to cope with this and it resulted in tragedy.

      Before you say, “Don’t be so bitter” I think you should take an honest look at the situation. When you say “Well women get rejected, too” the question is, “Do you think it compares to men being rejected?” When you say, “Well dating is hard for women, too” and you really believe that, that’s probably the problem.

      – Keith

  16. 1067
    Sarah

    How about all the men who won’t date a woman over 35 ! Regardless of whether they themselves are 35 or 70. Age is as much outside a persons control as height . Yet many men put a complete qualifier on women’s age. Interesting that statistic show men continue to find 23 the most attractive age regardless of how old they get whilst women’s tastes age as they do . Sorry but it’s just somewhat sickening to think of 70 year old great grandfathers dreaming of 23 year olds . Don’t men ever grow up? And they have the audacity to complain about women , wow.

  17. 1068
    Keith

    Whoa! What guys do that? I’m 32 and I don’t care about a woman’s age. As long as a woman takes care care of herself it really doesn’t matter what her age is in addition to the type of person she is.

    Any man who is that, frankly, stupid to have that rigid of a standard about something that does not matter is a freaking candidate for the mental poverty program.

    I’m sorry there are idiots like the ones you describe but I assure you those men are not that plentiful. Think: if they were, how would any women be cougars?? Joking aside, you’d be surprised how many men PREFER older women since women who have wisdom are less likely to play mind games and to seek out rich guys since older women have saved up. Make no mistake: speaking for myself, I’m not looking for a sugar momma, having said that. I just want a partner rather than a dependent, and thus, myself, I wouldn’t date a woman younger than 25 unless she was already established.

    Again, you’d be surprised how many men prefer maturity and confidence a woman gains as she progresses through life.

  18. 1069
    Asianguyscrewed

    Being an Asian male sucks for dating in America.

    I’m 5’10”, recruited for college sports, in great shape, 5/10 for looks, a physician and have it just as bad as a white version of me that was 5’3″ per all the studies I’ve shown regarding the importance of height, looks, money, and race. That last factor is *killing* me. I’ll see average-looking white guys that are medical students who are much less athletic and a little chubby getting so many messages online that they can’t answer them all.

    And I literally will get a message like once every few months and the response rate to my very witty and creative messages is about 4%. It’s frustrating as heck. And my profile is fine; people have looked at it and it’s great. My messages are amazing. Asian males are depicted in such a negative light in the media that it’s so detrimental to us.

    In person things are better because women can see through the stereotypes but online (and you can’t even use the excuse that Asian males are timid because of the very definition of online dating)it’s very rough.

    1. 1069.1
      Keith Patti

      I’m white and that situation I described I can so relate to about writing substantial messages that are more than “Hi. How are you?” but it still doesn’t yield a reply…

  19. 1070
    Wyatt Dick

    Asian makes do get the shaft in dating. They are the least desired male demographic, with black females being the least desired female demo. Why this is is hard to suss out. I’d be careful with easy answers like ‘it’s the media’. There’s a lot at play.

    That being said, Asian men have one huge offsetting advantage. Asian women are perhaps the most desired female demographic, and Asian men statistically have the best shot at marrying Asian women!

     

    1. 1070.1
      Adam

      This is true! Asian men are discrimated against in general, but have the best chance of being with a beautfiul Asian woman. Swings and roundabouts:)

  20. 1071
    Jes

    I absolutely LOVE Asian men. I don’t get why they get such shit stereotypes when they are the most sweetest, hardworking, attractive, and respectful men I’ve ever met.

    Also that stupid and ignorant rumor that “all Asian men have small packages” is HILARIOUSLY untrue. Small dicks don’t discriminate. I’ve seen more small dicks on a white man than on an Asian man. Some guys are hung, some are not. That’s just men in general. Not a specific ethnicity.

  21. 1072
    Tina

    All the hurt comments here from tall guys, I get it. It’s unfair.

    Now, would any of you date a fat girl?

     

    That should explain the triviality of “preferences”

     

    🙂

    1. 1072.1
      Corey N

      Tina,

      Weight can be changed, not height. Furthermore, if ones weight is the result of a medical condition, there is a test for that. However, most people (Americans in particular) are heavy due to lifestyles.

      1. 1072.1.1
        SparklingEmerald

        Men reject women for the size or shape of their breasts, butt not being round enough, legs too short, forehead too high, etc.  A woman could be of a healthy weight, live a healthy lifestyle, and still not have a perfectly shaped hour glass figure.   Some guys like girls who are really stick thin, and have a more boyish figure (slimmer hips), some guys like girls with a more ample bosom and bottom (an hour glass on steroids).  Some guys like tall modelesque women, with very proportionately long legs, some guys like girls who are more petite.  All of these preference are genetically determined, and a girl can have short legs, a flat butt, and it would have nothing to do with her lifestyle.  And yet men sieze onto to “fat girls” as if it is the ONLY reason they have not been attracted , since they can blame her for that.

        And you know what ?  It is fine with me.  I would NEVER want to be the girl some guy “settled” for or had to talk himself into liking.  I just wish men would allow us the same right.

        I have been berated in this comments section for my preferences (height isn’t one of them)  My 2 preferences that I have been criticized for ?  Smoking and big, gray, bushy beards.  (I’m not talking about a neatly trimmed goutee or moustache, my husband actually has one of those)  I am talking about Duck Dynasty, beard down to the chest, all over gray wirey hair.

        Smoking and facial hair are two things which are certainly within a man’s control, and yet I’ve been berated for having those two preferences, or rather deal breakers.  Not that I think men are “bad” for smoking or having beards, but those smells and textures are are real turn off for me.  How am I supposed to kiss a man with stinky breath, or a scratchy beard ?

        But I have been berated for having those 2 reasonable preferences from the  “women are shallow and picky” gang.

        It’s not a matter of men who are short are rejected and they can’t help it, but fat girls deserve to be rejected because it is all their fault.

        It seems some men are very bitter that women have ANY choice in who they choose as a mate.

        1. Corey N

          SparklingEmerald,

          Your post is a non-answer, as it does nothing to refute or address the truth that height and weight are not in the same class. Furthermore, men are not as hard set on any one female feature as women (mainly western) are on male height, studies have shown this ad nauseam. In addition, there was a study 3 – 4 years back that showed women (mainly western) think about a man’s height 12x more than he would.

        2. Adam

          SparklingEmerald,

          Sure women might have issue with the size and size or particular parts of there bodies, or their age or such, but there is surely NO female equivalent of being a very short man, ie one simple, unchangeable charcteristic that the opposite sex universally hates and openly and regularly talk about it. There are men who love 300lb women. Something like breast size…I have no preference and tbh in all my life of locker room talk I’ve never heard it mentioned. Now, compare and contrast with how many times you hear the phrase ‘tall, dark, and handsome.’ This hurts a short guy every time he hears it. Yes, its not your problem and you have your own issues, but try to show some compassion for these guys, theyre suffering mentally and emotionally and theyre not all ‘entitled’ douchebags because they want a girlfriend and the entire opposite sex is making it abundantly clear that theyre repulsive. Imagine if you had a brother or a son in this position.

          Take care x

           

  22. 1073
    John

    I am a short man (5’4″), and the reality is, that’s all most women see. I’ve built three–soon to be four– very successful businesses, run two non-profits in addition to volunteering my time to various causes I am passionate about, and am active and respected in my community (both as a businessman and a philanthropist). Most of my friends are women, and every one of them has described me as ‘the perfect guy’.

    I vary rarely date. Truth be told, I am selective in who I even approach. But don’t think by that I mean I only go for ‘9s and 10s’. On the contrary, I rarely even feel attraction to someone based on physical attributes. I have aspergers (or high functioning ASD, if going by the DSM-V), and one of the ways this affects me is prospognasia or ‘face blindness’. Where most people seek an connection with someone they find physically attractive, I develop attraction based on feeling a connection with someone. And roughly half of the women I have been in relationships with were full figured.

    Only one of them did not cheat on me and dump me (always for a tall guy). The one exception? She died in a car wreck. Oh, wait. She did dump me for a guy who was 6’1″. But she came back after he cheated on her. Would it have happened again? Who’s to say.

    People who say this discrimination– and it is discrimination, not ‘preference’– does not exist will never understand what it is like to grow older knowing that I have no one to carry on my name, to leave anything to… mine is an empire without an heir. It is ridiculously difficult for a single man to adopt. I can’t even donate sperm… there’s a height requirement for that. There’s no IQ requirement, weight requirement, education requirement, or success requirement. There’s not a criminal background check or a drug screen. But there is a height requirement. Still think short men don’t face discrimination?

    The single most used filter on dating sites is male height. I have done the experiment the man in the above article did. after years (yes, years) of not getting any responses on Match.com, OKCupid, or eHarmony, I changed my height… and got 75 messages in a single weekend on just one of those sites. I saw a psychological experiment where a group of men and a group of women created their ideal match in a computer program similar to a game character builder, the ideals were all compiled into one ‘perfect’ female and one ‘perfect’ male. Then the men and women did speed dating, each man and each woman meeting and rating one another. The closer each woman matched the ‘perfect’ woman, the more successful she was. And this ‘perfect’ woman did not look like a supermodel, wasn’t skinny, was a B cup… she was average, the prototypical ‘girl next door’. In other words, the more average a woman was, the more men found her appealing. The men however… the doctors performing the study were at first confused because they expected similar results, i.e. that the closer a man matched this composite ‘perfect’ man, the more successful he would be, but these were not the results they found. In fact, the results made little sense until they eliminated all factors but height. The only male trait, physical or otherwise, that correlated directly with success in the speed dating exercise was height. This was shown on dateline or 20/20 or something; I wish I could remember so I could find and link it.

    The most common excuse I have heard from women is tall men make them feel more protected or safer. Really? I used to box. I was in an accident and suffered a fractured skull and TBI which resulted in a lifetime medical ban. Otherwise I had a perfect record (12-0, 6 by knock out). My only ‘loss’ was the fight that was scheduled the night after the accident, which was too close to cancel and went down as a forfeit. After my accident, because I couldn’t box anymore but still wanted to stay in shape, I decided to pursue martial arts. I have studied krav maga, wing chun kung fu, and goju karate for almost two decades now. I regularly practice a variety of one-strike knockouts and disarmament techniques vs. a variety of weapons. I have trained to fight multiple opponents, and my takedowns are measured in seconds. Oh, yeah, and because I am short, most of my opponents have been taller than me.

    So yeah, I am a successful businessman, a philanthropist, a respected member of my community, intelligent and educated (I have contributed to 4 separate fields of scientific study). I’m built like a Roman god. I speak several languages, write poetry, play several instruments, do origami, and sing passably well even if I can’t remember half the words. I advocate for autism acceptance and LGBTQ rights. I work with disabled veterans and teach job and interview skills to people with mental health issues. I’m a helluva cook… even did some catering once upon a time.

    My female friends, even the one who isn’t attracted to men, say I’m ‘the perfect guy’ and tell me my height has nothing to do with my singleness. My male friends know better and try to help me see the bright side of it by letting me know about all the stresses of married and family life I don’t have to deal with. (I’m not sure if they know that I think even the ‘terrible’ parts of family life they describe to me sound like heaven, but I appreciate they are trying to make me feel better, so I laugh and agree.)

    In just over two years, I have gone on one date… well, I went on the date; she didn’t. She stood me up. A few days later, I was in the store where I met her, a place I used to frequent, and I overheard her in the back asking a coworker to tell me she wasn’t there if I asked. When he asked if the date went that badly and if she would rather he punch me, she told him she decided at the last minute not to go and to work things out with her ex instead. “The guy who beat you?” the coworker said. “That guy out there, he’s the definition of a good guy. i thought that’s what you wanted?” Her response: “But he’s so short.”

    Better to be abused than be with a short guy, I guess.

    1. 1073.1
      Corey N

      John,

      Get out of the U.S. Many Latin American countries are full of short men with great and hot wives.

    2. 1073.2
      Katie

      John.

      Copy and paste THAT into your dating profile. Seriously! Because I want to date you!

      1. 1073.2.1
        CoreyN

        …of course you would…you are past your prime…

        1. Katie

          Look who’s jelly! Dude that need to leave the country to find a gf. Best of luck to you, child.

      2. 1073.2.2
        CoreyN

        “Look who’s jelly! Dude that need to leave the country to find a gf. Best of luck to you, child.”

         

        The only children here are those with the heightist mindset…

  23. 1074
    Dallas J

    I am male in my early 60’s, married, attractive, in average to good shape (not obviously muscular),  5’7 and have dated women, usually younger than me, over 6′ tall since high school, including several in the 6’3 to 6’6 range (and usually long term).  Just a preference, not a fetish.  Many very tall women once they know that a shorter man is attracted to them and makes them feel comfortable are very attracted to a shorter guy.  I have found that marginally tall women in the 5’7 to 5’10 range are more lilely to be guilty of heightism while very tall women don’t care–they are taller than everyone!  I prefer confident outgoing women–I too am confident, not cocky, and tall women have a natural confidence.  I have dated some shorter women but yes I do discriminate and prefer 6′ or above in a female.  She can wear heels or flats, whatever is her preference to suit the occasion!  I might also add that as a white guy I for years have dated black women, so you can see I prefer difference in many ways.  Admittedly I did settle for someone a little shorter than the average height of the women I have dated, as my beautiful wife is only 6′!

    1. 1074.1
      Corey N

      5’7 is a LONG WAY from 5’2!

  24. 1075
    athena

    cry me a river about how unfair life is! short men are simply just not attractive to many women (regardless if she attractive herself or not) just as is women considered ugly looking are not attractive to many men(even is those men are complete losers)! At the end of the day, men are still more visual and women more about security/powerful men, but there are just some things that will always be the exception in mating. Short men = ugly women = unattractive

    1. 1075.1
      Luka

      Ok but how many women are really ‘ugly’? Discounting poor souls who’ve been in accidents or who were born with a deformity it must be under 1% of people who are really ugly.

      50% of men are below average height.

      The attitudes expressed in this report are quite common. Short men are one of the few groups its ok to openly deride and mock and point out how unattractive they are.

      I don’t want to convince anybody that short men are attractive. If you don’t want us its fine. Just try to respect people. Imagine if you took that cry me a river attitude to any other group who suffer in this way.

      I think its difficult for people to empathize with adult males. But think of this: if you have a son or a nephew or some little boy you care about, there’s a 50% chance he’s going to below average. There’s a 90% chance he won’t be tall. A lot of young men are very depressed and suffering because of this. Try to understand a little.

  25. 1076
    Allan

    I can’t believe this is even a thread… it’s pretty sad and disgusting how some of you little midgets with little man syndrome could talk towards women in such a way. Regardless of height, there are qualities that will win a girl in any moment if you have them. But clearly you midgets think so highly of yourselves when you probably have 0 social skills. Even taller men have SOME trait about them that is imperfect but they have to make it up with their personality. I’m only 5’9 22 years old and I have had a healthy love life with a number of beautiful women. Not the most attractive guy either. But I hold my head high and talk to everybody as a human being, and be the man that I am. And don’t even tell me 5’9 is tall enough because we all know women typically prefer 6′ or taller. It’s all about the person you are bro. If you can’t talk to ladies then no height is gonna do any good. My buddy who is 2 years older than me is 6’2, tattoos, and muscular and he lost his virginity at 21 because he couldn’t hold a relationship whether his life depended on it. He was the most awkward individual I’ve ever met. But luckily he has broken out of it. Stop using your height as a weakness and excuse and man up you pu$$ies.

    1. 1076.1
      Katie

      “But clearly you midgets think so highly of yourselves when you probably have 0 social skills. Even taller men have SOME trait about them that is imperfect but they have to make it up with their personality”

      So, short man = zero social skills

      Tall man = personality

      Got it, thanks.

    2. 1076.2
      CoreyN

      5’9 is a long way from 5’2. Also, the the trials short men face in western society backed up by tons of research

  26. 1077
    Anonymous73

    It’s evolution. In the oldest part of our midbrain we are instructed to seek a man who can protect and provide for us and our family. This doesn’t mean that on a conscious level we can’t try to overcome this drive, but deep down inside I think that if a woman tries to force herself to be attracted to what she isn’t, in the end, she will always feel somewhat dissatisfied. It’s also a sexual satisfaction issue. Broad shoulders = strength, virility and height…well, it’s proportional. 😕  I do, however, firmly believe there is someone for everyone. It may simply take him a little longer to find her.

    1. 1077.1
      CoreyN

      The premise of height as a criteria for female mate selection has been debunked a while ago.

      1. 1077.1.1
        Anonymous73

        Where? If you have the source, I’d love to see it. Height debunked in terms of mate selection height and protection/virility or mate selection height and endowment? I’ve never heard or seen to the contrary. Over 50% of our brain is dedicated to vision. I find your statement difficult to reason against well-known primitive instincts. Not all studies are carried out with high validity. A lot of factors to consider about how the study was carried out. Moroever, a man can make up for his lack of height through other factors like being charismatic, having a great sense of humor, or having wealth. With regard to height and endowment, there are always exceptions to the rule in biology, but that is not what is being discussed here. We’re speaking more broadly in general terms.

        1. CoreyN

          What meant to say was that the premise it is GENETIC was debunked…

      2. 1077.1.2
        Luka

        My experience on TInder strongly debunks your debunking:) Virtually every contact I’ve had with women has quickly turned to roundabout (or sometimes direct) questions about first, my height, and secondly, my job/income. To say height doesn’t matter is just extreme relativism; if it doesnt matter then nothing does and there’s no point talking or even thinking about anything.

        1. CoreyN

          What meant to say was that the premise it is GENETIC was debunked…

  27. 1078
    Louise

    Hi, I read this article with interest as I am with a man who is shorter in height. I never have or will see this as an issue whatsoever and cannot understand why anyone would really. He’s everything I look for in a partner, trustworthy, sensitive,  loving etc. I think diversity is what keeps humanity beautiful in different ways and to indicate that difference in height ect makes you somehow a lesser person or less worthy is just crazy. No one obviously has to be in a relationship with anyone they aren’t drawn too but these people are apsolutely no less important or worthy than anyone else

  28. 1079
    Dale

    I actually love when women are honest about their height prejudice. Tells me right away that they aren’t worth my time, money, or attention.

  29. 1080
    Ash

    I’m 5’6 and I’ve never had a problem seeing or talking to girls taller than me, in fact my girlfriend is 5’7. Maybe guys need to realise themselves it isn’t all about height. Confidence is key and gents if women dont want to talk to you because your too short, move on find someone else. Your never going to change someone’s preferences but don’t beat yourself up about it. Pick yourself up and get back out there!! Focus on what makes you you, Family, career whatever it is. There’s 3 billion women out there… you’ll be fine!

    1. 1080.1
      CoreyN

      Trying being a 5’2 man!

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