How Do I Get Men Outside My Race To Commit To Me?
I have a question that I don’t think you’ve been asked before! I’m a slim and attractive, successful black woman who only dates Caucasian men – but I can’t get one to commit! It’s so frustrating, I seem to be a curiosity. They all say, “I’ve never been out with a black women before” as if all my bits are going to be different to any other woman on this planet. If I’m lucky, they’ll date me briefly, but it’s purely about the sex! (I haven’t had many sexual partners. I’m 36 and have slept with under 10.) I’m extremely fussy who I “put out” for. I’m on two dating sites: eHarmony and Match Affinity – both USELESS. I don’t find most men on them attractive and, of the ones that I do, they don’t like me! Anyway, I’ve just read your newsletter. You must be a mind reader as yesterday I was thinking of closing both accounts!
So here’s my question: men clearly find me attractive, but how do I get a Caucasian man to commit? My sister gets men to commit but you wanna see the state of them – I have higher standards! I’ve spoken to my guy friends (all Caucasian) and their feedback is: it’s rare that they meet black women (let alone attractive ones) and while they’d date one, they would never settle down and have children! Is this because most people picture their future from an early age and mixing it up doesn’t quite sit right? I’m so sick of the “you’re really attractive, why are you single” comments because I don’t KNOW why I’m single. Even the men I have dated think I’m great – so why am I not great enough to settle down with??? In the UK, Caucasian women have no problems dating black men. It’s not uncommon to see this type of couple – however, flip the coin and you’re in a different realm. The only men I attract are the ones I don’t fancy or have a different agenda to me! So I realise that in this ever decreasing dating pool, my numbers are even smaller than most women as I don’t and won’t date within my race. I just don’t find black men attractive! So what to do – am I living in a dream world and need to maybe just get into my head that I’m meant to be single? Thanks, from a rather frustrated and almost desperate Jae!
Dear Jae,
Yes. You’re living in a dream world.
To understand why, I need to pick apart your letter, line by line, and hold a mirror up to you, so you can see what I see.
You can’t MAKE anyone do anything.
First of all, your question, “How do I get a Caucasian man to commit?” sounds as silly to me as, “How do I get a black woman to commit?”
You’re a black woman, Jae. How would you answer that question if I told you that my black girlfriends always dump me?
If you were smart, you’d tell me one of these three things:
1. You can’t MAKE anyone do anything, Evan. Therefore, any question like “How do I make Jae love me? How do I make her want to change her behavior?” is pointless.
2. If black women are attracted to Jewish men but don’t want to marry us, there’s not much I can do about it, is there? No more than some guitarist can complain that women are attracted to him but don’t want to marry a 40-year-old guy who plays for tips in the subway. It may not be fair, but it’s reality. So if a black woman doesn’t see herself having mixed race Jewish kids, you’re probably not going to be a good fit for her life, Evan – even if you’re both nice, attractive people. That’s life.
3. There’s no difference between black women and other women, Evan. They’re just “women”. So the question remains: why would any woman dump you?
That leads us to the next part of today’s tough love post: “Why would any man dump you, Jae?” (Note to other readers: this a good thing for you to contemplate, too, since humility and self-awareness are the keys to any long-term relationship.)
From your email, I’ve learned a few things:
Stop looking down on nice guys who want to commit to you.
You have a big ego.
You don’t find most men attractive.
You won’t date within your own race.
You look down on the commitment-oriented white men who fall for your sister since they’re beneath your standards.
Do I even need to say anything else as to why you’re still single?
No, I do not.
If you want to find love, just undo everything I restated above.
Get over yourself. You may be attractive and successful, but quality men care more about your kindness and character and humor than how much you make.
Learn to give men a chance, even if they’re not your type. After all, don’t you want a bunch of Caucasian men to give YOU a chance even if you’re not THEIR type?
Open up to black men, since that’s the most obvious pool of candidates who’d be interested in you.
Stop looking down on nice guys who want to commit to you. They’re better long-term relationship bets than the white men who are using you for exotic sex, don’t you think?
I appreciate your frustration and thank you for your letter, but you’re completely focused on things you can’t change (white men!) instead of the only thing you CAN change (your perceptions, actions and reactions.)
Evan said: (original post)
“You look down on the commitment-oriented white men who fall for your sister since they’re beneath your standards.”
I’m not sure that’s correct.
Jae said: (original post)
“My sister gets men to commit but you wanna see the state of them — I have higher standards!”
As far as I can tell, Jae didn’t specify the race of the men committing to her sister (though Evan may have edited the letter for length). They might be black men.
Regardless, Jae comes across to me as a bigot. She won’t consider even dating a black man (even though his bits are no different than mine). Jae has “higher standards.” Not only does she need to find a man who isn’t a bigot, she has to find a non-bigotted man who is willng to overlook her bigotry. Ironically, otherwise tolerant people are remarkably intolerant of bigots.
Furthermore, when someone refuses to date within their own race, that sends up a huge red flag. It gives the strong appearance that person has esteem issues about their race or even self-loathing about their race.
And if Jae is interested in raising a family, this gets even messier. Do you think an open-minded man wants his children to learn intolerance from their mother? Do you think a man wants his mixed-race son to have a mother who believes that black men are inadequate?
I can’t tell what Jae actually feels/believes about black men. But I’ve stated what an outsider is likely to perceive (correctly or incorrectly).
“And if Jae is interested in raising a family, this gets even messier. Do you think an open-minded man wants his children to learn intolerance from their mother? Do you think a man wants his mixed-race son to have a mother who believes that black men are inadequate?”
Great point Karl R
Karl R,
Bigot may be a bit strong. Just because you’re not attracted to a certain group of people, doesn’t mean that you’re intolerant of those people, or hold hatred or animosity towards them.
My ex boyfriend was only attracted to blonds (all his girlfriends, as well as his wife were/are blond). This doesn’t mean he’s bigoted towards brown haired people, or shouldn’t raise kids who have brown hair in case his intolerance affects them…
Evan…. you hit the nail on the head. Jae seems like she has plenty of reasons why any man (regardless of race) would not want to commit to her. I’m a black woman and I can NOT relate to Jae at all. Two things I’ve learned from reading your blog that have helped my dating life tremendously is “stay open” and “be fun”. Even if she isn’t attracted to black men (which I do NOT understand), what about dating Asian, Middle Eastern, or Indian guys? Why not make the pool as big as possible?
Let’s be real she isn’t exactly a spring chicken, either. At 36 she is starting off with a smaller pool. I’m 31 and it seems like the 30-40 men (regardless of race) on match want women 25-33.
Nothing wrong with being attractived to white men, but I think she should hold off on being intimate with any man until you really spend time to know each other. A few months of dating , no sex , would make a difference in the level of commitment she gets from her man!
Black men are not attracted to black women they see them as ugly
.
because they are
I agree with others that it sounds like one of her problems is narrow-mindedness and another is self-loathing of her own race, but I think she also may be setting her sights too high. Either she is trying to date 8s thinking she is an 8 when she is really a 5, or she knows she is a 5 and is shooting for 8s (and then wondering why that isn’t working out, when it’s obviously because the 8s are going for 10s).
I also wonder why she places such a weird premium on having been with a very low number of partners. I mean, I’m all for being safe sexually, but if you are that age and have had that few partners then maybe you are placing too much importance on sex and what sex means for a relationship. Making a relationship sexual doesn’t have to mean that it’s super serious, and if you expect it to mean that, then maybe that’s why guys aren’t committing. How can you expect them to commit to you when you clearly aren’t opening up to them? Loosen up, have some fun, don’t worry about where every relationship is heading right out of the gate and just see whose company you enjoy.
I also wonder about her “standards” – when I was in my 20s I wanted the “whole package” – looks, intellect, high powered career. I did get all that in my boyfriend, but the things that I really value about him now (we are in our early 30s) and what I’d be looking for if I were single are kindness, maturity, and generosity of spirit.
Some where along the way she will have to find a compromise in what she’s looking for. Or at least figure out which ones are make or break type issues. From my experience, it’s tough to find someone who meets my standards and vice versa. And it’s even more complicated when you’re dating interracial. Sometimes the local social/dating scene dictates some of this also. I’m blessed to live in a area that is open to dating outside my race.
@Eathan
Where do you live?
Wow! I have to say, I love the feedback I’m reading. I completely agree with Kurt R. I read the same thing in relation to her sister getting men to commit to her. Also, I too am a black woman. I’ve dated the rainbow. I had men from other races want to commit to me, want to spend time with me and I was to “fast” to slow down and enjoy the ride. I was forever doing my own thing, meeting new guys daily. Never gave the good guys a real chance. I was the one who didn’t want to commit because I was having too much fun, enjoying being free.
I don’t believe that it’s a black/white/purple/orange thing (I’ve been on both sides of the coin, i.e. non-commital, etc.). I think it’s a “where’s your priorities” thing. What’s more important, a guy who treats you with kindness and respect or the guy who looks good on paper? Who cares what color he is. Men are men (people are people). There are wonderful black, hispanic, white, asian, etc. men out there. If a man is into you and wants to commit to you he will. It has nothing to do with the pigmentation of his skin. Just my humble opinion.
Thanks for saying how you think us guys are awesome. It’s nice to hear that from a woman.
They will commit to you. Commit to leaving your self loathing a** alone!. It’s like the cat that just wants to mate with dogs. They may wanna do ya but they sense that something is really wrong. Girl you need to get on somebody’s couch.
Signed
A Happy Black woman
Although i agree with what everyone said about how she needs to calm down a little, and be a tad more realisitc. Being a black women myself,i do completly understand a lot of the “jungle fever” attitudes that come from caucasian men. And it really does make it difficult to try and find ones that are just pursuing you and putting forth effort to eventually get you in bed or not.
I am married to a man of a different race. So I consider that “committed” to me. All my life I have been attracted to me of different races & even from different countries too. Luckily they are attracted to me also.
All (100%) of the men I wanted to marry, married me. All the men I wanted to date were commited to me also.
I think men do what they “want” to do. If they want you , then they automaticly are “committed” to the girl they want. But if you try to “force” things , you will get “resistance” everytime. There is no easy answer to the questions people write here. You would have to live in the same house with them, & follow them around all day & see & hear every word & see every action, to be able to give an accurate reply here.
I think it might be better for Jae to ask some friend who can be “honest” what is her opinion, even if the “truth” hurts. It might be a habit that Jae is not even aware of, when she is with her men. She might over-power the converstions, be too demanding in some way, too serious, too funny, too playful? too quiet? You would have to be a fly-on-the-wall along with her on her dates, to see if there is some kind of habit that is a turn-off for her dates. Most men try to spare the feelings of their dates, as “gentlemen”, so theyw ill most likely “never” tell her what she is doing that annoys them.
I liked Evan’s response, he’s right on. It seems like the original question/headline would be better worded:
What can I do to be more attractive to men?
It’s amazing in this day and age how people can be blind to their own issues. Jae is mixed yet has totally discounted the other half of her race. I feel there is a lot more to her story than she is telling and without knowing the full scoop…we are just taking a stab in the dark. I understand why some choose not to date interracially but when you are a product of a mixed union and you refuse to acknowledge part of who you are…there is typically something more to it.
But based on what I was able to read, she does seem to have a huge chip on her shoulder and I guess it’s in her blind spot but I’m willing to bet that the men see this hence the lack of commitment. It goes back to what many say about interracial dating. I will date one but I won’t marry one.
I hear you JYD, but then, how do you explain all of the black men who have no problem with white women who won’t date white men? This is something I’ve noticed about my black friends. If a white woman won’t date white men, then it’s OK, it’s just her preference, but if a black woman won’t date black men, then there must be some problem there. It’s never just her preference. There is something wrong with her.
I don’t think it’s completely fair that people are saying that something is wrong with her because she prefers to date white men. This is a preference that she is entitled. As a black woman myself, I find it difficult to relate to many black men that I meet. Culturally, we just don’t fit very well. Also, let’s be honest hear. Statistically, the education and economic gaps between black men and black women are very large. When you include the incarceration rates, it very logically for some black women to look to other races for companionship. Now, I’m still open to dating black men but it’s extremely rare that we click. I go on dates with them because I don’t want to feel like I’m not being open but it’s difficult. Especially when you’re really educated and have a high salary. It’s not about being arrogant, it’s the truth, huge gaps in education and salary can be somewhat difficult on dating. Nonetheless, I find many black
men attractive however it’s the other things that don’t click very well.
Ok with people in general but not with thw whites in her family. White women are villified by their community,family and friends when they date black men just as black women are.
I understand what you’re saying man. It’s not fair either way man. I’m not white but I do understand what you guys go through man. When women of any particular race say they don’t date their own race because they’re just not attracted to them and / or give a myriad of negative to justify their actions it’s always because those women have been hurt or severely disappointed by the men of her own race. This can range from being raped to just being constantly hurt in relationships by her own men. So they try to avoid being hurt to that extent by only involving themselves with a group of men that are totally opposite of her own race. So even when these men hurt her it’s still not as bad as the pain she felt by being hurt by men of her own race.
Another thing is just racism and a massive superiority complex some black guys have regarding white people period. So when they see a White guy with a hot black woman that wouldn’t give him the time of day it’s a huge blow to his ego.
It’s funny how you only see hot black women with white dudes but when you see a black man and a white girl they’re usually busted looking. There is still a stigma for attractive white women to date black men unless they’re famous or rich. Hollywood rarely puts the young, hot white actress with a black actor in love scenes ( Focus being the exception) which only proves that white men still have that fear of black men having sex with white women….especially attractive white women.
There are FAR more black women with white men than the other way around. Like, twice as many.
Some Black men “have a massive superiority complex”….why do you say this Transientdude? What evidence do you have for saying such a thing?
Jae – I dont think your color is the issue….women all over the world are saying the same thing about the men they are dating right now! The only other comment I have is that when women express extreme disbelief/bewilderment at their own single status when they consider themselves such a catch it makes me wince a little…..
I’m sure it will all come good eventually – good luck!
She sounds frustrated with dating, and I think we can all empathize with that.
The good news is she is CURIOUS about learning how to do better. Whether she takes the advice and re-phrases the question is up to her.
#11 – Jae identified herself as black at the beginning of her letter. Did I miss where she explained that she was “mixed?”
Also, just wondering if anyone has insight into how interracial dating is different in the UK versus the US (or elsewhere).
I do have to wonder when Jae says she doesn’t find black men attractive and only wants to date Caucasian men. The term “Caucasian” covers a very wide spectrum of types and ethnicities. Is she trying to “trade up” somehow? Fit in with the dominant culture? She seems to place such a high premium on the man’s being Caucasian to the exclusion of everything else. How ironic that she claims to have such high standards when she dates men who don’t really want her. Since she dates men who are willing to lower their own standards in order to go out with her (for sex), this tells me that she doesn’t place a very high value on herself, despite the fact that she thinks she does. Like the man who wrote last week complaining that the women he was dating didn’t value his niceness, the men Jae dates don’t really value her for who she is – a black woman. She is over-emphasizing race to the exclusion of more important qualities like commitment and tolerance.
Also, if Jae does date a Caucasian man, wouldn’t it make sense to go out with a guy who doesn’t view her as an exotic curiosity right off the bat (“I’ve never been out with a black woman before”), but perhaps one who has dated women of other races before? If she wants a man who is open-minded, though, she’s going to have to become more open-minded herself.
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks and as someone who recently decided to finally try online dating, this post definitely strikes a chord with me.
I do hope that Jae or someone else who has lived in the UK chimes in about how interracial dating might be different there. Black men who want to cross over don’t seem to have a problem anywhere. I’ve been as a tourist several times but it’s hard to know what life is like there. Plenty of men here in the U.S.(black, white, and other, will check every box but black), so I hope she’s not contacting them b/c I can see how someone like that might respond and go out with her but not commit.
If she can find some, she’d probably have better luck with certain white expats from countries where I see a lot of white men married to black women (France, for example, and Germans are open to it too). My black friends who lived in London for a bit dated those guys while there.
One thing that I will say as a black woman is that someone’s ability to seriously date outside of his race doesn’t necessarily depend on having a “habit” of dating interracially, but perhaps on simply encountering people of that race in daily life. It’s great if he does have a black girlfriend in his past(there are things that you don’t have to explain) but that’s not necessary for you to be the one who gets the ring. Of course, Scandanavian and German men don’t seem to have gotten that memo, as many of my friends here in the States and Canada have gotten married to men of that background who NEVER got to see or date any other black women.
And here in the U.S., it’s the black women who frequently block out men of other races (although truthfully, since we aren’t presented as the paragons of beauty anywhere, a lot of those men don’t find us attractive anyway-I mean, I’ve read/heard white men describe Beyonce as being obese for goodness sakes. Our bodies are definitely not appreciated by a lot of men).
However, in the UK, once you leave London, the non-black population plummets so I wonder if Jae is facing the challenge of being just too different for the men.
I don’t think she should associate the failure to commit with the men’s race, b/c ultimately, a man who is into her enough won’t care what his family and friends say, and some of those German men who married my friends did have family members who disowned them, and in one case, the mother (but not the father) refused to come to the wedding.
It’s always a problem when a black woman says that she won’t date within her race. It’s a problem to me when anyone says that. They are likely attaching a negative or positive (and frequently offensive either way) stereotypes to those people. If the UK is like the US and Jae is a highly educated professional, then statistically, the men who share her education and income level are less likely to be black. For me, a good education is non-negotiable so by default, that does leave a lot of black men out, but I would never say no to one who met those criteria simply b/c he was black.
I disagree that she’s overrating herself overall, although reining in the ego and being kinder, gentler, and more nurturing is something that she might need to work on. But I will say that she needs to understand that a black women could be an 8 or 10 but at least on a white man’s(and really society’s) scale could be a 5. Plenty of people on this site claim to be 8’s or 10’s without challenge, so I’m loath to do that here. However, thanks to the media, her value as a trophy even if she’s gorgeous just isn’t there. I hate the rating system, but I’d say that if she was a white woman who only wanted to date black men, she could be a 5 or lower and still be quite successful. White women are the ideal and given a lot of value by men of all races. They are always going to have the most hits in online dating.
I’ll admit that a lot of successful black women have trouble putting what makes them successful professionally and academically to the side when dating. And we can have some excessive requirements. Are nice professional men who would commit contacting her but getting ignored b/c they are losing their hair or are only 5’8? I wonder if she’s turning down white men who probably on paper match her well but maybe don’t look like Pierce Brosnan (b/c if I was in the UK I’d imagine that’s who I’d fancy).
I think she can have plenty of options, just not as many as her white counterparts, and if educated black men fancy her too, she needs to give them a chance. If she was writing in with the same story and complaining about not being able to get any black men to commit (which is FAR more common), then I’d have the same advice. Odds are, to get what she wants, she needs to open up her racial preferences(ironic, since black women are usually being scolded to give someone OTHER than black men a chance). I can see how many won’t and she doesn’t need to entertain them, but she shouldn’t treat them all as if they can’t.
Truthfully, as far as getting a commitment, my black friends got to the altar a lot FASTER once they started replying to the white men. A black man who has it going on is either dating interracially where he gets a lot of mileage for the black male stereotype and for being successful and educated (much more rare for black men than for black women-is that true in the UK too?)
So I hope things will work out for Jae. My friends, who I think are probably 8-10s in every way (Ivy League educated, multiple degrees, good looking) have done really well with the white men, and found men who were attractive, equally well-educated (something that was going to be impossible to come by since the black men we went to school with repeatedly passed us over OR dated and wouldn’t commit). She does need to accept that for a lot of men of ALL races, her looks could be amazing but still don’t translate for them b/c it’s not what gets thrown at them everyday.
Sorry this is so long, it kind of combines my thoughts from a lot of things, esp. on the topic of race, that I’ve been reading here.
Wow! You hit the nail on the head. My friends and family made me feel bad for mostly dating outside of my race but I went to an Ivy League college and I have two masters degree. It’s been very difficult to relate to the average black men culturally. I would definitely date an equally educated black man but my options are extremely limited. For that reason, my preference is usually for non black men, however I am still open to black men. Also, black men are less likely to commit out of ever single race. I’m tired of people making me feel like I’m delusional and self-loathing because of my preference. Is it not logical to want to date men who are more likely to commit and men who you are more likely to have things in common with?
I think that you place too much value on economics and education in a relationship. Your salary and education level are just that. . . . attainable tangibles. That has nothing to do with how that man will treat you, respect you, honor you, love you, etc.
It seems you’d take a cheating, disrespectful man so long as he earns six figures and has a PhD.
I would not be married today if my wife thought this way when we met. She felt I was the one, though I looked far from it. When she and I met, I was down out. . . in EVERY area of my life. I told her that one day soon I will make it worth your while. She loved me and loved me with all that she had. Fast forward three years and she feels like she feels like she’s living a fairy tale.
Do you want the man that is for you or do you want a trophy?
Wow Evan — And Kurt both nailed it.
I’m a woman who happens to be multi-racial who has a loving committed relationship with a man who happens to be Caucasian and from Italy. He never looked at me as a woman with dark skin and curly hair — he looked at me and still does as a beautiful, kind, sweet heart woman. This is how he introduced me to a good friend of his on Sunday afternoon at a Christmas party.
Now, I’ve traveled the world — and I’ve been in committed relationships with men from around the world. I’ve actually found that in the UK and Republic of Ireland that I’m not a ‘curiousity’ but that men there that are Caucasian tend to be more relaxed about the color of skin. I’m not saying everyone there is — but the men I’ve encountered there were interested in me for reasons other than that.
I’m wondering if the OP is putting ‘out’ the Exotic Something Something Until Something Better Comes Along vibe or if she is really truly displaying ‘feminine’ energy with the men she meets? In reading her description of herself — if she is TELLING men that she’s a beautiful catch — well . . . I think most men find that to be a turn off. As well, it doesn’t really say WHO she is and WHAT she’s about . . . other than her looks and sexuality.
Yes — men are visual — and they do initially pick on whether they find a PARTICULAR woman attractive to THEM. Their eyes, their view, how they PERCEIVE her. But after that, you have to bring your F (feminine) Game to the table, and share the gifts of your heart, or risk him walking away.
Ruby #15, I agree with you. It sounds as though if Jae were offered the choice: “Which would you rather have: a white guy who will date you but not commit to you, or a good guy of any other race (black, Asian, Hispanic) who wants to marry you?”, she would choose the former. She DOES sound more obsessed about race than about any other quality.
That is sad, but – to each his own. Everyone has their different tastes, and while we may not consider them particularly wise, so be it.
I would offer that Jae needs to prioritize. What matters to her most (even if others find it misguided)? Is it more important that she be married to a good guy, or that the guy she finds is Caucasian? (By “Caucasian,” I think she means white, even if Caucasian does take a much broader sweep of ethnicities.) If it is the former, then Evan’s advice is spot-on. If it is the latter… well, she should be aware of just how much she has narrowed her choices, and should also be aware of the good points Karl R brings up in #1 about the tolerant white guy’s viewpoint.
Helen #19
“Everyone has their different tastes, and while we may not consider them particularly wise, so be it.”
My point in bringing this up is that if Jae were white and said that she was attracted to black men, I could understand that preference. However, a “Caucasian” could be blond and blue-eyed, or dark and swarthy, so it almost seems as if any Caucasian would fit the bill, as long as he’s white. On some level, does she think that any white male has more status than a black man does? That is what I’m wondering.