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So here’s my question: men clearly find me attractive, but how do I get a Caucasian man to commit? My sister gets men to commit but you wanna see the state of them – I have higher standards! I’ve spoken to my guy friends (all Caucasian) and their feedback is: it’s rare that they meet black women (let alone attractive ones) and while they’d date one, they would never settle down and have children! Is this because most people picture their future from an early age and mixing it up doesn’t quite sit right? I’m so sick of the “you’re really attractive, why are you single” comments because I don’t KNOW why I’m single. Even the men I have dated think I’m great – so why am I not great enough to settle down with??? In the UK, Caucasian women have no problems dating black men. It’s not uncommon to see this type of couple – however, flip the coin and you’re in a different realm. The only men I attract are the ones I don’t fancy or have a different agenda to me! So I realise that in this ever decreasing dating pool, my numbers are even smaller than most women as I don’t and won’t date within my race. I just don’t find black men attractive! So what to do – am I living in a dream world and need to maybe just get into my head that I’m meant to be single? Thanks, from a rather frustrated and almost desperate Jae!
Dear Jae,
Yes. You’re living in a dream world.
To understand why, I need to pick apart your letter, line by line, and hold a mirror up to you, so you can see what I see.
You can’t MAKE anyone do anything.
First of all, your question, “How do I get a Caucasian man to commit?” sounds as silly to me as, “How do I get a black woman to commit?”
You’re a black woman, Jae. How would you answer that question if I told you that my black girlfriends always dump me?
If you were smart, you’d tell me one of these three things:
1. You can’t MAKE anyone do anything, Evan. Therefore, any question like “How do I make Jae love me? How do I make her want to change her behavior?” is pointless.
2. If black women are attracted to Jewish men but don’t want to marry us, there’s not much I can do about it, is there? No more than some guitarist can complain that women are attracted to him but don’t want to marry a 40-year-old guy who plays for tips in the subway. It may not be fair, but it’s reality. So if a black woman doesn’t see herself having mixed race Jewish kids, you’re probably not going to be a good fit for her life, Evan – even if you’re both nice, attractive people. That’s life.
3. There’s no difference between black women and other women, Evan. They’re just “women”. So the question remains: why would any woman dump you?
That leads us to the next part of today’s tough love post: “Why would any man dump you, Jae?” (Note to other readers: this a good thing for you to contemplate, too, since humility and self-awareness are the keys to any long-term relationship.)
From your email, I’ve learned a few things:
Stop looking down on nice guys who want to commit to you.
You have a big ego.
You don’t find most men attractive.
You won’t date within your own race.
You look down on the commitment-oriented white men who fall for your sister since they’re beneath your standards.
Do I even need to say anything else as to why you’re still single?
No, I do not.
If you want to find love, just undo everything I restated above.
Get over yourself. You may be attractive and successful, but quality men care more about your kindness and character and humor than how much you make.
Learn to give men a chance, even if they’re not your type. After all, don’t you want a bunch of Caucasian men to give YOU a chance even if you’re not THEIR type?
Open up to black men, since that’s the most obvious pool of candidates who’d be interested in you.
Stop looking down on nice guys who want to commit to you. They’re better long-term relationship bets than the white men who are using you for exotic sex, don’t you think?
I appreciate your frustration and thank you for your letter, but you’re completely focused on things you can’t change (white men!) instead of the only thing you CAN change (your perceptions, actions and reactions.)
Karl R says
Evan said: (original post)
“You look down on the commitment-oriented white men who fall for your sister since they’re beneath your standards.”
I’m not sure that’s correct.
Jae said: (original post)
“My sister gets men to commit but you wanna see the state of them — I have higher standards!”
As far as I can tell, Jae didn’t specify the race of the men committing to her sister (though Evan may have edited the letter for length). They might be black men.
Regardless, Jae comes across to me as a bigot. She won’t consider even dating a black man (even though his bits are no different than mine). Jae has “higher standards.” Not only does she need to find a man who isn’t a bigot, she has to find a non-bigotted man who is willng to overlook her bigotry. Ironically, otherwise tolerant people are remarkably intolerant of bigots.
Furthermore, when someone refuses to date within their own race, that sends up a huge red flag. It gives the strong appearance that person has esteem issues about their race or even self-loathing about their race.
And if Jae is interested in raising a family, this gets even messier. Do you think an open-minded man wants his children to learn intolerance from their mother? Do you think a man wants his mixed-race son to have a mother who believes that black men are inadequate?
I can’t tell what Jae actually feels/believes about black men. But I’ve stated what an outsider is likely to perceive (correctly or incorrectly).
Pandora Esperanza says
“And if Jae is interested in raising a family, this gets even messier. Do you think an open-minded man wants his children to learn intolerance from their mother? Do you think a man wants his mixed-race son to have a mother who believes that black men are inadequate?”
Great point Karl R
Marika says
Karl R,
Bigot may be a bit strong. Just because you’re not attracted to a certain group of people, doesn’t mean that you’re intolerant of those people, or hold hatred or animosity towards them.
My ex boyfriend was only attracted to blonds (all his girlfriends, as well as his wife were/are blond). This doesn’t mean he’s bigoted towards brown haired people, or shouldn’t raise kids who have brown hair in case his intolerance affects them…
Ms V says
Evan…. you hit the nail on the head. Jae seems like she has plenty of reasons why any man (regardless of race) would not want to commit to her. I’m a black woman and I can NOT relate to Jae at all. Two things I’ve learned from reading your blog that have helped my dating life tremendously is “stay open” and “be fun”. Even if she isn’t attracted to black men (which I do NOT understand), what about dating Asian, Middle Eastern, or Indian guys? Why not make the pool as big as possible?
Let’s be real she isn’t exactly a spring chicken, either. At 36 she is starting off with a smaller pool. I’m 31 and it seems like the 30-40 men (regardless of race) on match want women 25-33.
Lisa says
Nothing wrong with being attractived to white men, but I think she should hold off on being intimate with any man until you really spend time to know each other. A few months of dating , no sex , would make a difference in the level of commitment she gets from her man!
Elisha says
Black men are not attracted to black women they see them as ugly
.
Rumple S. says
because they are
Honey says
I agree with others that it sounds like one of her problems is narrow-mindedness and another is self-loathing of her own race, but I think she also may be setting her sights too high. Either she is trying to date 8s thinking she is an 8 when she is really a 5, or she knows she is a 5 and is shooting for 8s (and then wondering why that isn’t working out, when it’s obviously because the 8s are going for 10s).
I also wonder why she places such a weird premium on having been with a very low number of partners. I mean, I’m all for being safe sexually, but if you are that age and have had that few partners then maybe you are placing too much importance on sex and what sex means for a relationship. Making a relationship sexual doesn’t have to mean that it’s super serious, and if you expect it to mean that, then maybe that’s why guys aren’t committing. How can you expect them to commit to you when you clearly aren’t opening up to them? Loosen up, have some fun, don’t worry about where every relationship is heading right out of the gate and just see whose company you enjoy.
I also wonder about her “standards” – when I was in my 20s I wanted the “whole package” – looks, intellect, high powered career. I did get all that in my boyfriend, but the things that I really value about him now (we are in our early 30s) and what I’d be looking for if I were single are kindness, maturity, and generosity of spirit.
Eathan says
Some where along the way she will have to find a compromise in what she’s looking for. Or at least figure out which ones are make or break type issues. From my experience, it’s tough to find someone who meets my standards and vice versa. And it’s even more complicated when you’re dating interracial. Sometimes the local social/dating scene dictates some of this also. I’m blessed to live in a area that is open to dating outside my race.
Traci says
@Eathan
Where do you live?
Tish says
Wow! I have to say, I love the feedback I’m reading. I completely agree with Kurt R. I read the same thing in relation to her sister getting men to commit to her. Also, I too am a black woman. I’ve dated the rainbow. I had men from other races want to commit to me, want to spend time with me and I was to “fast” to slow down and enjoy the ride. I was forever doing my own thing, meeting new guys daily. Never gave the good guys a real chance. I was the one who didn’t want to commit because I was having too much fun, enjoying being free.
I don’t believe that it’s a black/white/purple/orange thing (I’ve been on both sides of the coin, i.e. non-commital, etc.). I think it’s a “where’s your priorities” thing. What’s more important, a guy who treats you with kindness and respect or the guy who looks good on paper? Who cares what color he is. Men are men (people are people). There are wonderful black, hispanic, white, asian, etc. men out there. If a man is into you and wants to commit to you he will. It has nothing to do with the pigmentation of his skin. Just my humble opinion.
TransientDude says
Thanks for saying how you think us guys are awesome. It’s nice to hear that from a woman.
Sherel says
They will commit to you. Commit to leaving your self loathing a** alone!. It’s like the cat that just wants to mate with dogs. They may wanna do ya but they sense that something is really wrong. Girl you need to get on somebody’s couch.
Signed
A Happy Black woman
Naomi says
Although i agree with what everyone said about how she needs to calm down a little, and be a tad more realisitc. Being a black women myself,i do completly understand a lot of the “jungle fever” attitudes that come from caucasian men. And it really does make it difficult to try and find ones that are just pursuing you and putting forth effort to eventually get you in bed or not.
Amora says
I am married to a man of a different race. So I consider that “committed” to me. All my life I have been attracted to me of different races & even from different countries too. Luckily they are attracted to me also.
All (100%) of the men I wanted to marry, married me. All the men I wanted to date were commited to me also.
I think men do what they “want” to do. If they want you , then they automaticly are “committed” to the girl they want. But if you try to “force” things , you will get “resistance” everytime. There is no easy answer to the questions people write here. You would have to live in the same house with them, & follow them around all day & see & hear every word & see every action, to be able to give an accurate reply here.
I think it might be better for Jae to ask some friend who can be “honest” what is her opinion, even if the “truth” hurts. It might be a habit that Jae is not even aware of, when she is with her men. She might over-power the converstions, be too demanding in some way, too serious, too funny, too playful? too quiet? You would have to be a fly-on-the-wall along with her on her dates, to see if there is some kind of habit that is a turn-off for her dates. Most men try to spare the feelings of their dates, as “gentlemen”, so theyw ill most likely “never” tell her what she is doing that annoys them.
Denise says
I liked Evan’s response, he’s right on. It seems like the original question/headline would be better worded:
What can I do to be more attractive to men?
JYD says
It’s amazing in this day and age how people can be blind to their own issues. Jae is mixed yet has totally discounted the other half of her race. I feel there is a lot more to her story than she is telling and without knowing the full scoop…we are just taking a stab in the dark. I understand why some choose not to date interracially but when you are a product of a mixed union and you refuse to acknowledge part of who you are…there is typically something more to it.
But based on what I was able to read, she does seem to have a huge chip on her shoulder and I guess it’s in her blind spot but I’m willing to bet that the men see this hence the lack of commitment. It goes back to what many say about interracial dating. I will date one but I won’t marry one.
Jason says
I hear you JYD, but then, how do you explain all of the black men who have no problem with white women who won’t date white men? This is something I’ve noticed about my black friends. If a white woman won’t date white men, then it’s OK, it’s just her preference, but if a black woman won’t date black men, then there must be some problem there. It’s never just her preference. There is something wrong with her.
KandiKisses86 says
I don’t think it’s completely fair that people are saying that something is wrong with her because she prefers to date white men. This is a preference that she is entitled. As a black woman myself, I find it difficult to relate to many black men that I meet. Culturally, we just don’t fit very well. Also, let’s be honest hear. Statistically, the education and economic gaps between black men and black women are very large. When you include the incarceration rates, it very logically for some black women to look to other races for companionship. Now, I’m still open to dating black men but it’s extremely rare that we click. I go on dates with them because I don’t want to feel like I’m not being open but it’s difficult. Especially when you’re really educated and have a high salary. It’s not about being arrogant, it’s the truth, huge gaps in education and salary can be somewhat difficult on dating. Nonetheless, I find many black
men attractive however it’s the other things that don’t click very well.
Joe says
Ok with people in general but not with thw whites in her family. White women are villified by their community,family and friends when they date black men just as black women are.
TransientDude says
I understand what you’re saying man. It’s not fair either way man. I’m not white but I do understand what you guys go through man. When women of any particular race say they don’t date their own race because they’re just not attracted to them and / or give a myriad of negative to justify their actions it’s always because those women have been hurt or severely disappointed by the men of her own race. This can range from being raped to just being constantly hurt in relationships by her own men. So they try to avoid being hurt to that extent by only involving themselves with a group of men that are totally opposite of her own race. So even when these men hurt her it’s still not as bad as the pain she felt by being hurt by men of her own race.
Another thing is just racism and a massive superiority complex some black guys have regarding white people period. So when they see a White guy with a hot black woman that wouldn’t give him the time of day it’s a huge blow to his ego.
Mark says
It’s funny how you only see hot black women with white dudes but when you see a black man and a white girl they’re usually busted looking. There is still a stigma for attractive white women to date black men unless they’re famous or rich. Hollywood rarely puts the young, hot white actress with a black actor in love scenes ( Focus being the exception) which only proves that white men still have that fear of black men having sex with white women….especially attractive white women.
Evan Marc Katz says
There are FAR more black women with white men than the other way around. Like, twice as many.
Curious dude says
Some Black men “have a massive superiority complex”….why do you say this Transientdude? What evidence do you have for saying such a thing?
Theresa H says
Jae – I dont think your color is the issue….women all over the world are saying the same thing about the men they are dating right now! The only other comment I have is that when women express extreme disbelief/bewilderment at their own single status when they consider themselves such a catch it makes me wince a little…..
I’m sure it will all come good eventually – good luck!
Denise says
She sounds frustrated with dating, and I think we can all empathize with that.
The good news is she is CURIOUS about learning how to do better. Whether she takes the advice and re-phrases the question is up to her.
Jessica says
#11 – Jae identified herself as black at the beginning of her letter. Did I miss where she explained that she was “mixed?”
Also, just wondering if anyone has insight into how interracial dating is different in the UK versus the US (or elsewhere).
Ruby says
I do have to wonder when Jae says she doesn’t find black men attractive and only wants to date Caucasian men. The term “Caucasian” covers a very wide spectrum of types and ethnicities. Is she trying to “trade up” somehow? Fit in with the dominant culture? She seems to place such a high premium on the man’s being Caucasian to the exclusion of everything else. How ironic that she claims to have such high standards when she dates men who don’t really want her. Since she dates men who are willing to lower their own standards in order to go out with her (for sex), this tells me that she doesn’t place a very high value on herself, despite the fact that she thinks she does. Like the man who wrote last week complaining that the women he was dating didn’t value his niceness, the men Jae dates don’t really value her for who she is – a black woman. She is over-emphasizing race to the exclusion of more important qualities like commitment and tolerance.
Ruby says
Also, if Jae does date a Caucasian man, wouldn’t it make sense to go out with a guy who doesn’t view her as an exotic curiosity right off the bat (“I’ve never been out with a black woman before”), but perhaps one who has dated women of other races before? If she wants a man who is open-minded, though, she’s going to have to become more open-minded herself.
Andrea says
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks and as someone who recently decided to finally try online dating, this post definitely strikes a chord with me.
I do hope that Jae or someone else who has lived in the UK chimes in about how interracial dating might be different there. Black men who want to cross over don’t seem to have a problem anywhere. I’ve been as a tourist several times but it’s hard to know what life is like there. Plenty of men here in the U.S.(black, white, and other, will check every box but black), so I hope she’s not contacting them b/c I can see how someone like that might respond and go out with her but not commit.
If she can find some, she’d probably have better luck with certain white expats from countries where I see a lot of white men married to black women (France, for example, and Germans are open to it too). My black friends who lived in London for a bit dated those guys while there.
One thing that I will say as a black woman is that someone’s ability to seriously date outside of his race doesn’t necessarily depend on having a “habit” of dating interracially, but perhaps on simply encountering people of that race in daily life. It’s great if he does have a black girlfriend in his past(there are things that you don’t have to explain) but that’s not necessary for you to be the one who gets the ring. Of course, Scandanavian and German men don’t seem to have gotten that memo, as many of my friends here in the States and Canada have gotten married to men of that background who NEVER got to see or date any other black women.
And here in the U.S., it’s the black women who frequently block out men of other races (although truthfully, since we aren’t presented as the paragons of beauty anywhere, a lot of those men don’t find us attractive anyway-I mean, I’ve read/heard white men describe Beyonce as being obese for goodness sakes. Our bodies are definitely not appreciated by a lot of men).
However, in the UK, once you leave London, the non-black population plummets so I wonder if Jae is facing the challenge of being just too different for the men.
I don’t think she should associate the failure to commit with the men’s race, b/c ultimately, a man who is into her enough won’t care what his family and friends say, and some of those German men who married my friends did have family members who disowned them, and in one case, the mother (but not the father) refused to come to the wedding.
It’s always a problem when a black woman says that she won’t date within her race. It’s a problem to me when anyone says that. They are likely attaching a negative or positive (and frequently offensive either way) stereotypes to those people. If the UK is like the US and Jae is a highly educated professional, then statistically, the men who share her education and income level are less likely to be black. For me, a good education is non-negotiable so by default, that does leave a lot of black men out, but I would never say no to one who met those criteria simply b/c he was black.
I disagree that she’s overrating herself overall, although reining in the ego and being kinder, gentler, and more nurturing is something that she might need to work on. But I will say that she needs to understand that a black women could be an 8 or 10 but at least on a white man’s(and really society’s) scale could be a 5. Plenty of people on this site claim to be 8’s or 10’s without challenge, so I’m loath to do that here. However, thanks to the media, her value as a trophy even if she’s gorgeous just isn’t there. I hate the rating system, but I’d say that if she was a white woman who only wanted to date black men, she could be a 5 or lower and still be quite successful. White women are the ideal and given a lot of value by men of all races. They are always going to have the most hits in online dating.
I’ll admit that a lot of successful black women have trouble putting what makes them successful professionally and academically to the side when dating. And we can have some excessive requirements. Are nice professional men who would commit contacting her but getting ignored b/c they are losing their hair or are only 5’8? I wonder if she’s turning down white men who probably on paper match her well but maybe don’t look like Pierce Brosnan (b/c if I was in the UK I’d imagine that’s who I’d fancy).
I think she can have plenty of options, just not as many as her white counterparts, and if educated black men fancy her too, she needs to give them a chance. If she was writing in with the same story and complaining about not being able to get any black men to commit (which is FAR more common), then I’d have the same advice. Odds are, to get what she wants, she needs to open up her racial preferences(ironic, since black women are usually being scolded to give someone OTHER than black men a chance). I can see how many won’t and she doesn’t need to entertain them, but she shouldn’t treat them all as if they can’t.
Truthfully, as far as getting a commitment, my black friends got to the altar a lot FASTER once they started replying to the white men. A black man who has it going on is either dating interracially where he gets a lot of mileage for the black male stereotype and for being successful and educated (much more rare for black men than for black women-is that true in the UK too?)
So I hope things will work out for Jae. My friends, who I think are probably 8-10s in every way (Ivy League educated, multiple degrees, good looking) have done really well with the white men, and found men who were attractive, equally well-educated (something that was going to be impossible to come by since the black men we went to school with repeatedly passed us over OR dated and wouldn’t commit). She does need to accept that for a lot of men of ALL races, her looks could be amazing but still don’t translate for them b/c it’s not what gets thrown at them everyday.
Sorry this is so long, it kind of combines my thoughts from a lot of things, esp. on the topic of race, that I’ve been reading here.
KandiKisses86 says
Wow! You hit the nail on the head. My friends and family made me feel bad for mostly dating outside of my race but I went to an Ivy League college and I have two masters degree. It’s been very difficult to relate to the average black men culturally. I would definitely date an equally educated black man but my options are extremely limited. For that reason, my preference is usually for non black men, however I am still open to black men. Also, black men are less likely to commit out of ever single race. I’m tired of people making me feel like I’m delusional and self-loathing because of my preference. Is it not logical to want to date men who are more likely to commit and men who you are more likely to have things in common with?
Joseph says
I think that you place too much value on economics and education in a relationship. Your salary and education level are just that. . . . attainable tangibles. That has nothing to do with how that man will treat you, respect you, honor you, love you, etc.
It seems you’d take a cheating, disrespectful man so long as he earns six figures and has a PhD.
I would not be married today if my wife thought this way when we met. She felt I was the one, though I looked far from it. When she and I met, I was down out. . . in EVERY area of my life. I told her that one day soon I will make it worth your while. She loved me and loved me with all that she had. Fast forward three years and she feels like she feels like she’s living a fairy tale.
Do you want the man that is for you or do you want a trophy?
Adrienne says
Wow Evan — And Kurt both nailed it.
I’m a woman who happens to be multi-racial who has a loving committed relationship with a man who happens to be Caucasian and from Italy. He never looked at me as a woman with dark skin and curly hair — he looked at me and still does as a beautiful, kind, sweet heart woman. This is how he introduced me to a good friend of his on Sunday afternoon at a Christmas party.
Now, I’ve traveled the world — and I’ve been in committed relationships with men from around the world. I’ve actually found that in the UK and Republic of Ireland that I’m not a ‘curiousity’ but that men there that are Caucasian tend to be more relaxed about the color of skin. I’m not saying everyone there is — but the men I’ve encountered there were interested in me for reasons other than that.
I’m wondering if the OP is putting ‘out’ the Exotic Something Something Until Something Better Comes Along vibe or if she is really truly displaying ‘feminine’ energy with the men she meets? In reading her description of herself — if she is TELLING men that she’s a beautiful catch — well . . . I think most men find that to be a turn off. As well, it doesn’t really say WHO she is and WHAT she’s about . . . other than her looks and sexuality.
Yes — men are visual — and they do initially pick on whether they find a PARTICULAR woman attractive to THEM. Their eyes, their view, how they PERCEIVE her. But after that, you have to bring your F (feminine) Game to the table, and share the gifts of your heart, or risk him walking away.
Helen says
Ruby #15, I agree with you. It sounds as though if Jae were offered the choice: “Which would you rather have: a white guy who will date you but not commit to you, or a good guy of any other race (black, Asian, Hispanic) who wants to marry you?”, she would choose the former. She DOES sound more obsessed about race than about any other quality.
That is sad, but – to each his own. Everyone has their different tastes, and while we may not consider them particularly wise, so be it.
I would offer that Jae needs to prioritize. What matters to her most (even if others find it misguided)? Is it more important that she be married to a good guy, or that the guy she finds is Caucasian? (By “Caucasian,” I think she means white, even if Caucasian does take a much broader sweep of ethnicities.) If it is the former, then Evan’s advice is spot-on. If it is the latter… well, she should be aware of just how much she has narrowed her choices, and should also be aware of the good points Karl R brings up in #1 about the tolerant white guy’s viewpoint.
Ruby says
Helen #19
“Everyone has their different tastes, and while we may not consider them particularly wise, so be it.”
My point in bringing this up is that if Jae were white and said that she was attracted to black men, I could understand that preference. However, a “Caucasian” could be blond and blue-eyed, or dark and swarthy, so it almost seems as if any Caucasian would fit the bill, as long as he’s white. On some level, does she think that any white male has more status than a black man does? That is what I’m wondering.
Marc says
Jae,
Walk over to the closest mirror, take a good look at yourself and say, “I am not a victim of the world I see.” Repeat as necessary.
Sydney says
@Marc
I love this mantra! After reading Jae’s post I believe Jae is being honest about what her personal dating experiences have been like. Also, I agree with most of what Evan said EXCEPT: Open up to black men, since that’s the most obvious pool of candidates who’d be interested in you. This statement is not factual and it also reiterates what Jae was saying about white men only wanting her for sex. The truth is as a black woman myself, I have been where Jae is. I have met black men who will not date black women because of the negative stereotypes associated with us: loud, overweight, uneducated not attractive. I have met white men who see black women as a sexual exhibition but not “wifey” material. And I have met black women who refuse to date black men because of all the negative stereotypes associated with them: drug dealers, always in jail, uneducated, having multiple children with multiple women. The point is that these stereotypes are degrading, misleading and just plain wrong most of the time. Nevertheless, many people believe these stereotypes and choose to date or pick their mate based off of them. That is why I like @Marc’s advice so much, and I think that is the best advice Jae can take away from this. No matter what type of man you have dated in the past, no matter what your age is and what you do or what you look like, you will find love. Don’t be a victim, just keep the faith. Yes, I believe Jae needs to deal with the real reason on why she refuses to date black men. I do not buy “I am just not attracted to them!” I am a black woman who has been attracted to black men, white men, indian men, native american men, middle eastern men, spanish men and asian men. My only preference is height (I like a tall man), build (I like a man with muscles), expressive eyes, and facial hair! You can find these physical features in any culture! When you start saying you won’t date a person because of the color of their skin, it is usually because of some ridiculous stereotype you have heard! “White men have small packages” or “Middle Eastern men abuse their women”. Once again, these are not factual statements, but are ignorant biases that give a person a narrow view of the world and depletes their dating pool. Jae right now you are playing the victim, and your negative views of yourself and other people are bringing the wrong people in your life. Change your mindset honey, truly learn to love yourself and the right man will come!
Sarah says
This reminds me of my situation in my previous relationship: I was living with a Chinese man. A lot of people kept asking me “how can you be with a Chinese?” or “Why did you chose a Chinese?”.
I’ve never understood either questions. I didn’t chose Chinese, I chose HIM. Not because he’s Chinese or not, but because I loved HIM.
I totally agree with Evan, race has absolutely nothing, but nothing to do with it. And if for the other party it has, then forget about him, he’s not worth it.
I must admit though that I don’t understand this desire to date only white men. As said above, people are people no matter what race…
Amora says
I read many good ideas for Jae here. She should try them all & see what might work best for her.
I have family in the UK, Switzerland, & also in France. I did not notice a high degree of interacial couples in either of these 3 countries. If you look at the big picture, of each country , say like 100% population, then most married couples in all 3 countires, looked like they were the same race. When you shop & eat out, you see all people or every race, & it looks like most races in these 3 countries were of the same races.
I take lots of pics when I go out shopping too (just for pleasure), in the random pics there are all kinds of people, but most of families & couples look like the same race.
For myself, I like a different flavor, so I married a different race, because that is what we “both” wanted to do.
Jae, just keep your eyes & your options open. Your “Prince” will come. You may have to see lots of ugly frogs along the way, but eventually, over time, your true “Prince” will come.
I agree with Andrea #17 commit, you might have to look beyond “Tall” & “Long Rocker-Hair” to get your Prince. He may be a short & balding Prince (they come in all shapes & sizes you know) lol
Andrea says
Ruby #20
I’m not sure I understand your point about why it might make sense for Jae as a white women to prefer black men but not the other way around.
It sounds as if you are under the impression that the variation in appearance doesn’t exist in black men. A black man could have light skin, light eyes, light hair, etc. or he could be extremely dark, or somewhere in between. Too often, people assume that they know someone’s genotype because of their phenotype, which isn’t true, and it’s what leads people to make too many assumptions about what a “black” person looks like.
This is about race and not phenotype, b/c even it’s a rare, if you said you wanted a red-headed or blond-haired black man, or a black man with green eyes, you could definitely find that (the eyes actually aren’t that rare).
I can’t speak for Jae, but I wonder if she’s associating the worst stereotypes concerning black men with ALL black men, and is therefore avoiding them all together.
If she does chime in, I’d suggest that she try an interracial dating site. She’d have to sift through people with fetishes and people with real interest, but at least she’d know that the men there were actually looking for black women.
As someone who isn’t an “outsider” to Jae’s situation, my take on it is that it’s not that she wants a white guy whether he’s good or not. My guess (as another black woman) is that she wants a white guy b/c she’s convinced that they are collectively better. And depending on what her needs and wants are, they probably are “better.” A higher percent will have college degrees for example. However, it is silly for her to discard ALL black men for the failures or limitations of some. To understand the root of her desire, you’d have to know what she was willing to tolerate simply for the sake of being with a white man. Could he be less educated? It doesn’t sound like she wants him to be less attractive. That leads me to think that she might want an educated professional, and is choosing white men because there are more of them that fit that profile. Will she accept “less” from a man simple because he is white? We don’t know.
It’s a slippery slope, and without more info, it’s hard to know if she’s making sweeping generalizations about the black men she meets and is just throwing out the baby with the bathwater, whether she’s rejecting them preemptively, or if she has issues of self-loathing (yes, some people want to marry non-black people to have children who have a different phenotype).
I do think that she needs to realize that if she’s attempting to date across racial lines, her value does take a hit even if she’s a very attractive woman-also, we kind of all know that education and professional success don’t get women nearly as much as they get men in the dating world.
In case anyone is interested, do a sort of black women and black men on the basis of just education and you’ll see the kinds of differences that exist. Also, check out who the black men are looking for. Several exclude black women, and few ONLY consider black women. But the fact that a lot of non-black men include everyone except black women makes me think that Jae is limiting herself too much by just looking at white men. She has to cast a wider net.
Hot Alpha Female says
Evan, I’m so glad that you posted this question and you answered it how you did. I think the fundamental issue here is not about the colour or race of the men that Jae is interested in, rather it is her opinion and interaction with men.
I believe Jae needs to open herself up again to men of all sorts. Go on dates with them, enjoy their company and don’t discredit men so quickly. All this list building, keeps Jae safe. It keeps her from really having a man.
So she needs to also look at the reasons why she feels she needs to protect herself. Is it because she actually doesn’t want to get hurt. Maybe its a particular belief about men.
She has to focus on the root of the problem (her inability to trust me) rather than the symptom (can’t get them to commit).
Hot Alpha Female
Vicki says
Jae
All i have to say is:- when you don’t like yourself or even love all of the parts of yourself (your heritage) why on earth would any man of any race want to commit to that. Isn’t a successful relationship about two healthy, whole, individuals coming together not one broken piece trying to be healed by another – just a thought….
JerseyGirl says
Her dating issues sound like issues women of all races and cultures face. Since she primarily dates whilte men, that’s where her experience lies. Although it’s curious that she doesn’t date any black men. However, I am a white woman who, while I’ve dated a limited few men outside my race, am primarily attracted to other white men. Does that make me a bigot? I don’t think so. Anymore then it makes Jae one for not dating men of her own race. She might not be comfortable with her own hertiage. But the fact that she doesn’t date men of her hertitage isn’t proof of that alone.
Ruby says
Andrea #24
My point was that it doesn’t sound like Jae has a particular physical type that she prefers, just that the most important thing is that the man is Caucasian. She doesn’t really explain her lack of attraction to non-Caucasians, so I wondered. My questions are similar to the ones you raise.
Bill says
Attraction is not a choice. It seems most of the commenter’s are suggesting Jae should look at other races besides whites.
She is attracted to white men lets work with that. The white men she is attracted to probably have rejected a lot of other white women too. At the end of the day she is working to find a white guy she finds desirable that would commit to her.
Realistically we are talking about leagues again. She is also at a age range where men have more power vs women. All the men who want to be in relationships are probably taken and etc.
Realistically if she wants a white man to commit to her she would have to compromise like her sister. It is the sad reality you can’t change reality. You can only change your expectations.
Joseph says
Attraction is definitely a choice.
Flower says
She has a racial fetish, many do. Asian women date heavily outside of their race and have no problem finding a mate. Many Black American men have a racial fetish, too and have no problem finding a mate.
I think that Rae should cast her net, join more intterracial dating sites and maybe purchase Evan’s book Why Men Disappear. Bone up on the subject of IR dating.
Google and visit some Black Women Empowerment blogs, there she will find support for her wish to date WM.
Personally I think Rae should keeping being chosy, keep her fetish, that’s her choice. Go to where the WM are join clubs go out dancing and join as many dating sites as you can.
Market yourself! But … bone up on Evan’s dating tips.
I for one and maybe I’m the only one but I think she is going to find the perfect WM as soon as she changes how she dates.
Krystal says
I agree with this. Nothing wrong with loving men outside your race at all. You can’t control who you are attracted too. It’s not worth dating a race you are not attracted too just to get a man. You will not be happy at all. I think it’s how she comes off to men is what’s the problem. She should join interracial dating sites and go out in the real world to join organizations and events where she increases her chances of finding the white man she wants. Me, I am a black woman and I love Asian men. I joined events, clubs, groups, brushed up on my Japanese and found my Asian prince and made some friends along the way. Also, I dressed up nice, wasn’t arrogant, but perky and fun! Market yourself and listen to Evan’s dating tips.
Joseph says
We can’t control who we are attracted to? That makes no sense
Z says
I agree with Bill and Flower, I think that’s good advice.
Flower says
Thank you Z. I was puzzled reading some of the other responses. But as a fellow Black female who IR dates -I’m African American, slim and attractive, too, I can relate to Rae.
Oh and I was married to a BM. Would date one if my ‘type’ was around but my ‘type’ of BM is far and few between in my Northern California neck of the words so it’s WM.
Rae, Define the sort of WM you want and accept nothing less. Have a list of non-negotiables. Reject the ones who appear to treat you as a sex object. Stay busy with your full life. Get the word out! Keep dating! If you are as hot as you say you are, soon and very soon, you will have the man of your dreams.
As they say in certain hoods “don’t let haters keep you off your grind” -why should you date a BM just cause you’re the same race? makes no sense to me. BW are expected to be emotional mules hoping and praying for that one perfect BM.
Karl R says
Bill said: (#29)
“Attraction is not a choice. […] She is attracted to white men”
First, Jae stated that she only dates white men. She didn’t say that whites were the only men she found attractive. She also said that she didn’t find most men on eHarmony and Match.com attractive (again, without specifying race).
Second, we might not be able to choose who we are attracted to, but we can certainly influence it over time. You probably won’t be able to convince yourself that repulsive people are attractive, but it’s quite possible to broaden your view of which people are attractive … if you put your mind to it.
Jae seems to be expending a lot of extra effort to find a white man for a committed relationship, even though there’s nothing that indicates that the color of his skin will make her happier or the relationship more successful in the long run.
Bill says
“one perfect BM” LOL there is no such thing as perfection. If your over the age of 35 it is time to get real. Find someone you can connect with at a deep level. Your not a spring chicken anymore. Your list of requirements are pretty good if you want to be single. Yes I know you rather be single than be unhappy. At the end of the day your the one who is making yourself unhappy.
Flower says
Bill of course you got my sarcasm.
Karl, it doesn’t matter. She wants a WM, that’s her choice. Just cause she’s B doesn’t mean she has to date a BM. Many Asians ladies and BM make the extra effort to date outside their race even though there’s nothing that indicated that the color of their skin will make them happier or the relationship more successful in the long run.
I am getting the vibe of … dare I say the R word …
Anyway, Rae has not chimed in here. Good luck, Rae. As Willow Smith sang “don’t let hater’s get you off your grind”, lastly I say, with effort and determination you will find the WM of your dreams.
Laureni says
Evan’s answer was on target, but terribly depressing. I’m an attractive black woman and it took me a long time to finally accept the fact that race matters tremendously in the dating game and unfortunately, most men, particularly white men, would not want to marry a black woman. Even if you are kind and nurturing. Even if you do everything right. I didn’t start to find love until I came to this sobering realization.
In defense of the OP, I wouldn’t quickly dismiss her as being ego-inflated. White people who wish to date only outside of their race would not be judged so harshly. We all have egos when it comes to dating. Those who have more power/leverage are forgiven for their egos. I know that Evan keeps reiterating that men are more about “feelings” and not looks, but it’s not really that simple. An egotistical hot, young white woman probably stands a better chance of snagging a tall, successful 36 year old white guy than the most nurturing black woman ever could. Humility is accepting that life isn’t fair.
Karl R says
Flower,
I see a huge difference between someone like you (who primarily dates members of one race due to circumstances) and someone like Jae (who will only date members of one race).
If someone only dates members of one race, it raises the question of “Why?” While we don’t know Jae’s reason, I can think of several reasons … and “a fetish” is the least disturbing of the possibilities.
I don’t want to date any woman who has chosen me because she has a fetish, because she sees me as a status symbol, because she believes I’m somehow “pure,” etc. I want to date women who are interested in me as a person … regardless of my skin color or hers.
And I doubt I’m the only man (white or not) who feels this way. And if enough men feel the same way as I do, that could partially explain Jae’s lack of success.
On a separte note, do you think Jae has better odds of finding that one perfect WM, than that one perfect BM?
Z says
Karl R. said: “If someone only dates members of one race, it raises the question of “Why?” While we don’t know Jae’s reason, I can think of several reasons … and “a fetish” is the least disturbing of the possibilities.”
Would you say the same thing if the situation were a BW who only dated BM?
Andrea says
@Karl R, I totally think that wherever she lives Jae has a better shot at finding a “perfect” white guy over a “perfect” black guy.
It might not be true perfection(in regards to the search for a “perfect” mate) so much as standing a higher chance of getting other criteria that she wants.
I don’t think I have to extrapolate much to guess that education and a good career are probably must-haves for Jae.
Based on Jae’s writing, I’m going to guess that she’s from the UK. Not sure if she’s still there, but most people raised in the U.S. don’t refer to themselves as “fancying” anything. So she might have the same issues that Flower has finding black men at all(and I live in N. Cal too).
Look, maybe it’s not obvious to a lot of people who aren’t black women and maybe aren’t looking for black men, but if you are really well-educated and want someone who has formal education and no illegitimate kids, way fewer black men will fit the bill. And that is true whether you are in Idaho or Washington D.C. Dealing with men whose circumstances differ significantly from your own is just not something that women of other races have to deal with.
That’s why I’m willing to cut her some slack about looking for a white man. She might be a bit too blunt about it, and it sounds like she’s excluding black men, but it might be because her perception is that they lack some fundamental traits that she wants or needs. I’m not interested in people with kids all over the place and who can’t write or spell either. I think a lot of educated women aren’t. It’s not even about money.
I don’t think that a lot of white people in this country can really relate to that kind of imbalance. As I’d said before, try filtering as if you were looking for an educated black man and compare that to the number of well-educated black women that you can find. Those numbers are depressing and it can make you not want to bother looking at all. Add to that the fact that many of THOSE black men also don’t want to talk to black women anyway.
What is hard is that Jae is trying to break into a dating pool that largely sees no value in her except as a sex toy. As she said, some want to play around but not date her in any meaningful way. Many white men will list every ethnicity except black as what they are looking for. As was mentioned, (and I’ve seen in other threads), many Asian women will exclude Asian men. I didn’t see/read anyone coming down so hard on them for having a fetish for white men. And it does seem that women who have a fetish for black men are willing to commit to them.
I’m not defending her choice 100%, but I’m not going to pretend that I don’t get where she’s coming from or ignore the fact that there is a BIG double standard as people judge her choice.
And add me to the list that wouldn’t blame anyone for only dating members of their own race. As I said though, Jae’s success might be as bad if not worse if she picked that strategy unless she was willing to give up a lot in terms of finding someone with a common background.
Her best shots are really to focus on all races and if her criteria really is about education and career, to stick to that, and to use interracial dating sites. There will be people with fetishes but there will just be regular white men who maybe don’t feel confident approaching black women (I’ve had white male friends say that they “don’t know what to say”) and I can truthfully say that lot of black women do shut the advances of non-black men out, so approaching someone online who is open and where you can play the numbers game can be the best approach.
Even in the best case scenario, she’ll still have far fewer options than her white or Asian counterparts, so she is shooting herself in the foot here in my opinion.
Karl R says
Z asked: (#38)
“Would you say the same thing if the situation were a BW who only dated BM?”
Of course.
I would apply it to anyone who only dates members of one race. No exceptions.
Andrea said: (#39)
“As was mentioned, (and I’ve seen in other threads), many Asian women will exclude Asian men. I didn’t see/read anyone coming down so hard on them for having a fetish for white men.”
There’s a substantial number of asian women who seek white men, because they see those men as a status symbol. There’s a substantial number of white men who seek asian women, because they have have a fetish for Asians. Both groups are exercising poor selection criteria … but it’s not stopping them from finding a partner. They easily find an equally shallow partner, and they appear to be quite happy with that outcome.
Since both groups are getting what they want, they’re not coming here seeking advice. I can’t speak for anyone else on this blog, but I don’t waste my time giving advice to people who aren’t interested in listening.
Jae knows something isn’t working for her. She might not like my advice, but she’s in a better position to listen to it.
Andrea said: (#39)
“maybe it’s not obvious to a lot of people who aren’t black women and maybe aren’t looking for black men, but if you are really well-educated and want someone who has formal education and no illegitimate kids, way fewer black men will fit the bill.”
That’s an ugly stereotype, but there’s a bit of truth to it.
But that ugly stereotype applies equally well to black women. So if I’m looking for a woman with a formal education and no illegitimate kids, I could save time by ruling out every black woman.
Of course, Jae and Flower and Laureni and every other black woman reading this blog is about to start screaming that the stereotype doesn’t apply to them. THEY are an exception to the stereotype.
But Jae is ignoring the fact that there are black men who are also exceptions to the stereotype that you gave. She is more aware than many people that some people are exceptions to the general rule. She’s in a position to truly value people who do look beyond the stereotype to see the qualities that she actually possesses.
And Jae is apparently unwilling or incapable of extending that insight to any black man. How is that anything but a double-standard.
I agree with most of your other comments. Jae is in a tough dating position, and she’s making it tougher by her own choices.
Goldie says
I am surprised so few commenters have been able to accurately see where Karl is coming from, to the point of “the R-word” having already surfaced. sheesh. When I look at Jay’s letter, I see the exact same thing he sees, a huge logical disconnect.
In the letter, Jae describes herself as a woman who chooses her men based on their skin color first, all their other qualities being secondary. She does not understand why the men she dates, that she chose based on their race first and foremost, are not color blind. Well, because neither is she!
If I chose the men I date based first and foremost on their looks, I’d end up dating a lot of shallow men to whom looks are the number one factor. To me this is the same thing. If you chose a man, not for who he is, but because he’s white, don’t be surprised to find out that he, in turn, chose you, not for who you are, but because to him you’re an exotic dish he hasn’t tried yet.
I like Sarah’s comment #22. She didn’t choose “a Chinese guy”, she chose HIM and he happened to be Chinese. IMO that is the way to go.
Andrea says
Karl R,
We don’t know if Jae isn’t going to take Evan’s advice yet because she hasn’t chimed back in. I think plenty of Asian women write in here…the first post I ever read on this site was from an Asian woman who was asking about being a sell-out for not dating her own race.
The stereotype doesn’t apply EQUALLY well to black men and black women unfortunately. This is a case where it applies more often to the men than the women, and since I think that in general people do tend to date and marry people with similar educational backgrounds, it doesn’t bode well for black women.
Blacks overall have higher rates of illegitimate births and are enrolled in university at lower rates than members of other groups. Not sure what the break out is for the births, but for school black women attend and graduate from college at much higher rates.
So yes, It it true when you compare us collectively to whites and Asians you could apply an ugly general stereotype, but if you visit ANY college campus in this country, you will see many more black women than black men. So there is nothing EQUAL about it. Too many professional, well-educated black women have no black male colleagues, classmates, etc. We enroll in higher education at a higher rate, and we graduate at a higher rate. When you go on to graduate school(and I’ve been 3 times) and the workplace, that imbalance gets even worse. The handful of blacks who work in my large division of an even larger company are black women…and we’re not talking about a company or industry where women are highly represented. That was true for me in my pre-grad school career too.
People from other ethnic groups in this country don’t have such a disparity in the pursuit of higher educations, although current stats show more women than men enrolled overall.
It’s a small sample size, but when you start using online dating sites and you filter based on education, you’ll get far more hits on educated black women than educated black men.
I do think that Jae can find a man to commit to her, and if she’s an attractive, educated woman she can probably find a white man that fits the bill. But I think she needs to take the focus off of his race and more on the real qualities that she wants in a mate, because honestly, there will still be more non-black men that fit her criteria if I’m right and her preferences are based on education and career.
This is in the news ALL of the time. I’m surprised that everyone seems so unaware of that imbalance and you just want to insist that it’s an ugly stereotype that affects us equally, because it simply doesn’t. And I guess no one pays attention to it when it pops into the news b/c it’s a population that people aren’t trying to date or marry. Frankly, I can say it kind of sucks to keep reading in the NY Times, CNN, and watch on Oprah that if you are a really educated black woman, you aren’t ever going to find a man.
What surprises me more than Jae’s rather blunt approach to things is how many educated black women either remain single or date men who are dropouts, are underemployed, etc. Evan’s example in his response doesn’t surprise me at all. (I’m assuming it’s an anecdote from him real life and not just an analogy). It takes a lot of black women a long time to realize what a silly choice they are making, and some never do get it.
I wish Jae would write in again so the speculation would end. She probably needs to widen her pool but it only takes one in the end. And it’s not any true statistical study or proof of anything, but my friends who finally started dating white men have had no problem getting them to commit to and marry them. But none of them started with the requirement that he needed to be white (okay, maybe a couple looked exclusively but it wasn’t a hard and fast rule)…it was more that in their case, they put the really important traits and stopped excluding the white men and I think the numbers just worked out better because more white men had those traits.
DR says
I can understand Jae’s situation. I’m a 34 year old black, female professional in a very male dominated field. I’ve found over time (and mostly through work) that I get along better with white men than black men. I find that black men with similar education/backgrounds are much more cocky than white men.
For a number of years, I was only open to dating white men. Yet, I was missing a little something, and that was the cultural nuances that I share with black men. I’m still single, but I’m learning the basic attributes that I require in a mate, and these exceed race. They include straightforwardness, good work ethic, good sense of humor, and communicative.
Honestly, I’d prefer a tall, athletic, blond European man with the libido of a rabbit. But what I’m mostly committed to is a sexy, communicative relationship with a man that I can laugh with and enjoy his company regardless of race.
Luxe says
I wonder how she is coming off on these dates. If she’s bring up race as an important thing right off the bat, that can be a turn off. It would be for me. I would agree that she is better off focusing on someone’s character first. Quality guys will respond to you better if you are looking at them like people versus “a Caucasian guy.”
Brooke says
A big thank you to Andrea for clarifying for everyone. Reading these comments it was clear to me that some factors were not being considered because the odds are simply different for bw. I relate to Jae although I don’t focus on white men exclusively- I do find it frustrating that I’m approached as a “sex toy” so to speak. There are wm who have wanted to commit to me but the vast majority of them act as if they are having some kind of experience. So much so that my filter catches them pretty early now. Yes its and ugly reality but it is a reality. I don’t know what Jae’s reasons are but I def. see no reason to jump down her throat as a person who gets it.
Rachel says
I really hate it when people try to overanalyze why one person wants to date a certain race of people and not another and that if they don’t want to date their own race then they have serious issues. I’m a black woman that primarily dates white men. I started out that way but overtime I have expanded to dating other ethnicities (Asian, Latino as well.) Because white men are the largest race in this country for dating, by default, I usually go out with White men but am open to others. I don’t date black men because I’m not attracted to them and have always been attracted to those who were of a different race than I was. I don’t hate myself, I love being black and I don’t need to be enrolled in some 12 step program. My attraction is my attraction, don’t overanalyze it.
For Jae getting advice on this blog, I love EMK but I think that unless you are a black woman it is really hard for someone not of the same cultural background to give advice on this subject. I also, think that for people who aren’t minorities aren’t able to give good advice on this topic as well. When it comes to dating, Black Women and Asian men are on the bottom of the “desirability” dating list and the dynamics of us dating are very different from most people. EMK stated that woman are women but in America women are treated very differently in dating and online according to their ethnicity. I would encourage Jae to look at tons of blogs that discuss Black Female Interracial Marriage and blogs like Beyond Black and White that give advice on topics like this.
MY ADVICE FOR JAE WOULD BE:
If what you are doing is not working I would look at changing some of your techniques to see if you can make things change YOUR way.
1) Your Standards– Keep them high but realistic. I always hate when they tell us women to lower our standards and settle. It seems that especially for Black Women we are told settle just so we can find a man. (Yes, Ivy League grad, you should be open to dating the shoe sales man as long as he’s a good man!) Jae, you know how if your expectations are too high? If you have NEVER met a man that could fulfill your criteria. I have high standards as well, but I have met 3-4 men in real life that could meet them, so it is achievable. I have a list personally five non-negotiable traits that a guy must have. If he doesn’t have those traits I walk away. Know what traits the guy has to have for a relationship to work with you.
2) You as a product– I always see myself as a product. An AMAZING one at that. But in someplace like the US just because the color of the package, people won’t want to buy the amazing product that is inside. I also like to look at it in terms of market supply and demand. There maybe a low demand for your product but in other countries there maybe higher demand. Since it sounds like you are in the U.K. I would look at dating men in Germany, France, Italy, Spain and even place like Ireland, Norway and Sweden. Once again, this info is all on the BF IR blogs, but there are lots of black women who have had success with dating and marrying men there. In some places you will be seen as exotic but in others they will just treat you just like a normal woman and will approach you as a normal woman.
3) For dating at home in the UK I would change your approach. It sounds like you are meeting and dating men but are not able to take it to the “relationship status”.
a) In your profiles I would suggest putting in that you are looking for marriage.
b) Make sure the man knows that you are looking for a LTR eventually leading to marriage.
c) Only have sex with them after you agreed you are in a committed relationship.
I thinking doing a and b, when a man goes on date, he knows what you are expecting out of the relationship. And with C, if he didn’t get the message, then he’ll drop by the wayside when he doesn’t “get the goods”. Jae also needs to do better screening of men at the first encounter. I’ve tuned my radar and know when a guy who is asking me out on a date during the first meeting he shows he has a fetish , (i.e. telling me how he loves black women or always wanted to date a black women, etc.) For those men stay away, if he approaches you like a normal woman that is a good sign too.
I think once you know what you want and how to filter them, it’s only a matter of time to find the guy. Being a black woman dating just white men is going to be a little harder so you have to cast you net wider.
4) Expand your search options– looking at Interracial dating sites such as afroromance.com or interracialmatch .com. If you use match.com make sure to put that you are “open to dating all race” as it will make you sound more IR friendly. If you are only attracted to white men go for it, but also consider looking at dating Latino, Asian, etc. men as well to even add more men to your search pool.
Black women have horrible response rates online (OKCupid blogged all about this). Response rates to our ads are lower than what they should be for a statically norm (no surprise). So while I do use online dating, especially being a black female you need to get out there and do in person activities (meetup.com, professional organizations/events, get invited to house parties, speed dating, go to a professional pub if there’ such a thing, etc.). EMK blogged about this but certain groups of people do better offline then online. Once I started getting offline, I was able to meet many more professional white males who were actually interested in dating and committing to me. It’s not easy, but then again neither is being a black woman! I’m sure what you are looking for is out there!
HTH-
Rachel
Karl R says
Rachel said: (#46)
“I have high standards as well, but I have met 3-4 men in real life that could meet them, so it is achievable.”
3-4 acceptable men over what time period? Did any of those find you similarly acceptable?
Let’s assume 5% of all high-quality men are interested in a long-term relationship with you. Let’s assume you’re meeting 4 men per year who you find acceptable. That gives you an 18.5% chance of meeting a mutually acceptable man each year [100%-(100%-5%)^4=18.55%]. After 8 years, you’ll have an 80% chance of meeting someone mutually acceptable.
If you’re only meeting 4 acceptable men over a 5 year time-span, you have a 4% chance of meeting an acceptable man in a given year. After 17 years you’ll have a 50% chance of meeting someone mutually acceptable.
If you’re only meeting 4 acceptable men over a 10 year time-span, it will take you about 20 years to have a 33% chance of meeting a mutually acceptable man.
I agree with your assessment. It is achievable. But depending at what rate you’re meeting acceptable men, it might become a very difficult achievement.
T.J. says
Well said Karl. If one also factors in time, and age, the longer it takes to find said person, the worse the chances are too, most men, will also not commit after already going through a marriage or two, and by the time most have hit 40 they already have been married once, or are married for those that do not fear commitment. I was burned twice already by two “7 year itchers”. I’m done.
Rachel says
@Karl (#47)
The guys that I have met have been in the past one year. Out of four of them, only one found me “acceptable” and we had discussed (in a totally non-creepy way) how he had dated women of color in the past and was very comfortable with it. We didn’t go on a second date however. Anyhow, for the other 3 guys, I know they either found me interesting or were attracted to me from how we were talking but frankly I know the reason it did not move forward was because I was Black. I know especially with some white guys they feel the attraction but are afraid to act on it because of whatever issue (fear of cultural differences, what other people may say, etc.) It really sucks to know that you do meet matches and you know the only reason why they won’t ask you out if because of the color of your skin and that if you were white you would at least be dating. But that’s the reality of being a Black woman in America trying to date interracially.
That’s why I’m strongly considering trying to relocate to Europe. I’m not saying that there isn’t racism or Europe is some paradise but I feel that in some countries there, they treat all women well…just like women. It’s not the fact that I’m a 9 and I have all of this education, class, and sophistication and should have all these men coming up to me. It’s just I would love to be in a country where I’m treated just like an normal woman on an even playing field and where yes, men look at your looks and the package but it’s not like, “she’s a eight and is pretty but she’s black”. Just where a 5 is a 5 and a 7 is a 7 no matter what you color is . If that were the case in the US I think I would have found my mate while back. But I don understand that America is very race conscious, so this is something I have to deal with being a Black women who dates interracially in America.
Given you statistics, you could say that after 4 years I have a 40% chance of meeting a match. Let’s compromise a say 50%. If I need to wait 4 years to have a 50% chance of meeting my ideal mate, that I’ll wait 4 years or even 8 years. If we are talking about marrying the one that you want to be with for the rest of your life, than I would rather wait then marry the wrong person. Of course, that is why I’m looking at moving to another location to increase those ratios. I have also expanded my social circles as well and done more offline actitives as of recent which I hope will help those chances. Also, I’m always working hair, clothes and weight to help perfect the packaging. I can complain all I want on this board about race, men and IR dating in America but like EMK has said, just because a situation is unfair doesn’t mean it will change. The only thing I can change is myself and what I do.
SS says
I’m a black woman. I’m married to a Caucasian man. So I think I can speak from experience on this one.
Yes, there are some Caucasian men who only want to experiment with black women. Here’s what you do… DON’T DATE THEM. As soon as you get the idea that those men are NOT looking for something serious, then move on.
I’ve probably dated more Caucasian men than most black women (not by deliberate choice… I was simply around them more), and they ran the gamut. Some were recently out of a marriage and were clearly into dating (but not committing to) all the types of women they might never have dated when they were much younger. Others were very serious… one told his daughter about me and wanted me to meet her. He was ready to pay for a trip to visit him, but I was the one uninterested in him. However, I have no doubt that this Caucasian man (and Jewish to boot) would probably have been willing and ready to make a serious commitment to me if our relationship progressed.
Just as you would do with black men (or men of any other race), if you’re dating a white guy, pay attention to see if he’s showing the signs of being commitment minded before you get deep into infatuation with him. Is he trying to include you in his life? Is he telling his family and friends about you? Is he introducing you to family?
And STOP with the racial conversations with random white people about why white men won’t marry black women en masse. Who cares? Stop focusing on them and playing this, “Woe is me the black woman who no one wants.” And also STOP with the silly “Why do black men get to date all the Caucasian women they want while I can’t date all the Caucasian men I want?” When did this become a competition? If you want to date and only marry Caucasian men (which is your absolute right and I’m not criticizing that), then stop worrying about what black men are doing!
Like Evan always says, like the men who like you back. I’m sure there are PLENTY of Caucasian men around you who would be more than willing to commit to you… but are THEY the ones you’re looking for? Or would you rather waste time with the ones who see you as a curiosity and DON’T want to commit to you?
I don’t care if the vast majority of white men don’t want to get serious with black women. There are enough white men who ARE willing to do so to be more than enough for the number of black women who are interested. There are more white men than black women in this country anyway, so I’m sure you could find ONE who wants to marry you, if you stop focusing on those who don’t… and stop wasting time with the “jungle fever” types.
SS says
I wish I could edit posts!
I just read many of the comments, and I have to say that I find it interesting that so many people were bothered by the fact that Jae said that she did not date black men. I don’t know her and I won’t make a comment one way or the other about this, but I do find in general that black women get MUCH more heat than women of other races do for saying that they won’t date the men of their own race… and black women are probably the least likely to say that!
Asian women have the highest intermarriage rates in the US and it’s cool for white guys to talk about how much they dig Asian women. I hear Asian women say without even hesitating how they will only date white guys, but NO ONE EVER calls them self-hating, racist or anything like that. Does anyone question black men about this? How many white women are horrified when a black man tells them how much he prefers them over black women? Do these white women recoil and call those black men racist, or do they lap up the attention and accept a date from that man?
Some of these same Asian women too will say that they would never date a black man because of family issues, lack of attraction, etc. Does anyone call them racist for that? Rarely. Wonder why?
I don’t want to hear any white men, women, etc., psychoanalyzing a black woman who chooses to date out of her race exclusively. If one wants to say that she should open up her choices to black men, Hispanic men, etc., for the purpose of having more options, fine… but unless all of us can honestly say that we have NO racial preference whatsoever in our mates and hold no stereotypes about people of our own race or a different race that influences our dating decisions, then we’re being hypocritical telling black women how “self-hating” they are if they choose not to tell black men.
Back to Jae… I agreed with the poster who said to stop asking white men about their experience dating black women. You are already putting negative vibes out there by jumping the gun and making assumptions about a man without getting to know them first. I know that my husband said that he was pleasantly surprised that I didn’t ask him if he had dated black women before when we met for our first date… he said to ask that question (and the answer was no) would have placed him in a position where he might have come off as suspect if he told the truth, and then I might have improperly judged him as a “jungle fever” candidate, when he simply was a man who wanted to meet a woman he considered attractive and she happened to be black. By simply seeing him as a man, it allowed him to show me on his own whether or not he was serious, and then LATER, we were able to have racial discussions about our families, children, etc.
I think too many black women shoot themselves in the foot on interracial dates by wanting to interrogate a white man about his “intentions.” And then if the answer is not a good one, then said woman starts building up this idea in her mind that no non-black men want black women because after all, the guys she dated said as much.
So again, I would simply say that if the Caucasian-men only path is the one you want to follow, change your technique. Read some interracial dating blogs geared toward black women and get some tips. Change your attitude and for black women in general, stop with the whole “bottom of the totem pole,” “not the standard of beauty” sob fest.
Society is what it is. Stop focusing on that and focus on what you can control… which is learning how to find the type of men that would be the ones that would commit to you.
Andrea says
Frankly, I’m surprised that Jae is sticking around for what sounds like obvious fetishists but maybe it comes from her determination to have a white man at all costs. It makes me wonder if despite her goal of having a white man, whether she has any experience with them. There are clearly nice white men who will like her for her and not as an experiment, but it’s odd that she’s not running for the hills when she meets people who want to play around. Does she think it could lead to more? That never works.
I think she can get what she wants, but just like any of the women who write in here for advice, she needs to change her approach, and move on if she gets creepy vibes (just like she’s be advised if she thought the guy was a player, or was disrespecting her, or keeping her around as a spare).
I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I felt compelled to chime in on a blog that is probably largely population by white(or at the very least, non-black) readers b/c of the assumptions that they seemed to have about Jae and her choices, and like you, for their criticisms in calling her the “R” word. It’s so funny, b/c if the tables were turned, they’d bristle at the accusation but I find that the word is lobbed at us quite frequently. Also, whether anyone who isn’t black wants to admit it or not, we do find ourselves with different challenges that no amount of positive thinking can erase.
I think any well-educated,professional black woman who wants an equally well-educated mate HAS to be open to dating men of other races, and yes, I felt compelled to explain that someone who has maybe decided to look only for white men isn’t necessarily doing it b/c she considers them to be better or because she hates herself as a black person, even though it might look like that to someone from the outside.
I felt it was important to chime in b/c her position and perspective is so poorly understood. I mean, in my opinion, a lot of people write in talking about how hot they are and how hard they have it while dating, and I just felt that the comments about having a big ego weren’t lobbed at them nearly as harshly as they were at Jae. Normally, the people who brag about being 10’s and who are 45 but can pass for 20 but who can’t find a man are first complimented on the fact that being a 10 is going to now make the job of finding a man easier, provided that they change the approach since you can’t change the men.
And in my opinion, that’s the advice that Jae needs to hear, but it’s also true that she should think about the fact that for the market that she’s trying to enter, her stock is on average considerably lower. So unlike some of the articles about pitying the pretty women who can’t get to the altar, she should think about the fact that a black 10 might only be a 5 for men of other races. She might be lobbying to get dates with David Beckham but she might just have to settle for a Ricky Gervais with a nice personality. That’s not whining. It’s just a fact.
Acknowledging our differences and adding our perspective is valid, esp. when I see it reflected so little here. Although I will say that what is said here still resonates more with me that what I see in black publications and of course the black church’s approach that anything the man wants is okay and you should be fine with it because he is the man and therefore king.
It’s hard to know what she wants…the white skin or maybe the resume. If it’s the latter, she should focus on that irrespective of race and she’ll probably be pleased with the results. If it’s the former, well, it’s her choice and I’m not going to criticize it for the reasons that you mentioned since no one comments on Asian women who chase white men for their features.
And hopefully she reads ALL of these comments because there is a lot of good advice for her, (you figure, not drilling man about his past with black woman falls under the category of just not drilling a man with questions too soon anyway-your answer about whether he’ll commit to a black woman will come if she sticks around and makes you part of his world; also, my friends also found the lack of questions regarding the scarf also were signs that there had other black women in the past so they never bothered to ask if they were the first or tenth black woman).
I did think the initial comments were so critical and harsh about her choices that it was less likely that she’d give an update if she didn’t read something else here either.
Joe says
While there may be things wrong with her or an attitude adjustment, you are missing the significant real world problems that Black Women face. Particularly with Black Men who are players, cannot commit, cheat on them, and may not have jobs. A professional Black Woman wants a reliable professional, and most professional Black Men meet and date a lot of professional White Women, leaving Black women in the cold. This Smart, Educated, Professional Black Woman wants help finding and keeping her White Boyfriends and turning them into husbands. One, she should just get off the pill and get pregnant because if a White man is just using her for sex, he should be mentally ready to have a baby. Second, its the White Man’s fault for caving into Society’s prejudice against Black People, and fearing He will lose social status or his family will disapprove. This Black Woman wants and needs a way to re-assure her White Boyfriends that she is “Wife” material, can be a “good mother” and that the “couple” will survive together despite society’s prejudices. She needs to convey to the White Boyfriend that inte-racial children are acceptable and that their Love and Relationship can stand the test of time.
Sass says
I’m all for building bridges and breaking through ignorance to get people to see we are all people.
But if I have to convince somebody I’m dating that they not see me as less worthy than a white woman solely because my skin is a different color, then they aren’t for me.
Ayeanna says
I’m a black woman who has dated mostly white men and have been in a 3 year relationship with one – an Aussie. I’d say 99% of the men I’ve dated were white save my ex who was of mixed race. I love being black and have no problem with my heritage, I’ve dreads, I’ve been a advocate in the community, know my history and where I came from and I think black men are damn sexy. I’m attracted to and open to all but just have had the experience of dating white men and I will admit that that is where my attraction lies / has been the strongest. But as SS said, it’s been interesting reading everyone’s opinion about what race she wants to date and being quite negative about it.
Maybe let’s try to focus on what the real problem is…
Jae doesn’t have a problem with her heritage – she likes what she likes and is attracted to that, why should she have to open up and go outside of that if outside of that isn’t what gets her going? Jae has a problem with the men she choses and as others have pointed out her attitude and ego. I think she’d do good by having someone help her find a entirely different type of guy because seems like her radar is completely off when it comes to picking winners. Going outside of the race she wants won’t equal a good partner it might just equal another partner she’s incompatible with.
I guess the only thing left I had to say if Jae still reads this – if a man… ANY MAN, says to you that you’re their fetish… run for the hills. He’s telling you right then and then what role you’ll be playing in his life. I guess that goes for anyone who dates outside of their race.
Hope says
I whole heartedly agree with SS #50’s posts, mostly because I was (or, somewhat, still am) Jae. I’m an African American woman who has exclusively dated men outside of my race the past 15 years; primarily Caucasian men, but mostly only because that’s just how things worked out.
I find men of all colors attractive, but at some point in my life, the things I’ve learned and the interests I’ve had and the hobbies I have come to love seem to lead me to connecting with men outside of my race. I’ll avoid discussing any of the usually mentioned issues of/about/when it comes to the Black male. I may have not dated them the past decade, but I’ve never spoken ill of them either, as I do love the men of color in my life who are prime examples of what a (Black) man should be all about. However, when I was younger I was called “weird” or “Trying to be white” by men of color I dated because my interests or way of speaking or likes didn’t fall inside some box most men of color I knew felt comfortable with. And, at some point, I just began to exclusively gravitate emotionally and sexually to men of other races, although I had ALWAYS dated men of all colors. My first boyfriend at at 13 was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed young man.
However, my issue is I’ve been single almost ten years and rarely date (not really asked), mostly due to some of the frustration that Jae communicated in her post. Either they show no interest at all or, if they do, you’re quickly called things like “chocolate” or “mocha” in messages and asked “Do you date White men?” (which irritates me, because it’s an antiquated and irritating question) and viewed as someone they’d love to hang out with and have sex with, but not commit themselves to in any way. I have only guessed, in my history, it is because I’m Black.
But, something happened this year. I met a man of color that I was immediately attracted to. We seemed to share the same interests, the same type of communication, the same hobbies, the same career paths, the same traits. I think we’re even the same sign. However, I made note that he is bi-racial (Black and White). I began to realize that the type of man I’ve been running from for so long is actually the type of man I need to date in order to find true connection beyond favorite albums and favorite books and fun sex positions like I did with White men. While not a necessity, it did strike me that being a bi-racial Black man lead me to feel more of a connection with him than any non-Black man I’ve dated or “kinda dated” over the past fifteen years. I think his being biracial helped me find a man I connected with both mentally and sexually, as well as make me feel as though we share a common background through one of his parents.
And while I still have my preference for tall blonde men with green eyes (something I feel Jae is 100% owed and due without any judgments or labels as racist or self-hating) I do certainly understand the importance of being open to any man, despite his ethnicity. It took me over a decade of singleness to understand it. I believe Jae will too and, if she doesn’t, it’s ok and not our place to judge. Because, as SS states, just like Caucasian men who date Asian women exclusively and unapologetically or Black men who date Caucasian women without being called racists or bigots, Jae has her preference and we should all respect her and respect them.
She simply has to find a way to better weed out with these Caucasian men who are only seeing, and caring (or choosing not to her for her because of) her color. That’s exactly what I’m doing as we speak.
SS says
Hope, great response and congratulations on your new love interest! I hope it works out for you two!
I was also single for 10 years (even though I dated frequently) and I’m sure that my options were limited to a degree by my race. I did date black men, but contrary to what Evan stated, I found that I didn’t have a greater likelihood of finding marriage with them because of our similar racial backgrounds. Some simply were not interested in marriage for another 10 years or so and yes, some simply were not interested in dating black women.
I tried to limit my exposure to the non-black men who wanted only “chocolate fantasies” and I actually found I did better dating Caucasian men that I met “in real life” versus online, and found better luck with black men online versus “in real life.” Ultimately, i married a Caucasian man I met in real life, but I made sure to pay attention to his behavior early (as I would with any man) to make sure of his intentions. I still would have been open to black men (or other men) as well… because as you said, you never know when you could discover that what you’ve been looking for all along came in a package that wasn’t your initial preference!
m says
Jae –
What you want is a QUALITY man, irrespective of race.
That said, you may need advice a little more subtle than what you’ve received here.
Evan’s advice, while potentially useful as far as it goes, doesn’t quite cover the nuances of dating in a racist society (and, FTM, racist world).
(Also, just from what I’ve read, your approach may need to be a touch more subtle as well — just from the way you write, I have a sneaking feeling there are some more concepts you may want to give some thought as you hone your approach.)
If you Google “quality man” and “interracial”, you may find some things that may supplement the material you find here.
Best of luck to you.
m says
” most men, particularly white men, would not want to marry a black woman”
This may well be numerically accurate in the US — after all, there are more white people in the US than black, so there would be more white men than black women, so if all those men were polled, that proposition might well play out — but I think it’s a distortion as a statement.
There are a lot of white men paired with black women who are kept out of the media spotlight (for reasons I won’t get into now).
Wolfgang Puck (Spago, Granita) is married to a black woman.
Peter Norton (Norton Securities – you know, on your computer?) is married to a black woman.
The Princess of Lichtenstein is a black woman, as is one of the Baronesses of Monaco.
Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen is married to Janet Langhart, also black.
And then, of course, there’s Iman and David Bowie.
It happens far more often than people realize. It’s just not brought out — or, rather, it’s de-emphasized — in the common media.
A-L says
Several posters have commented about the availability of comparable black men and women. I was interested to see what the differential was, so I went on to Match.com. The basic search was for blacks, ages 26-40, with a bachelor’s degree or higher, no kids, and within 35 miles of New Orleans.
39 men met the qualifications
77 women met the same qualifications
Same parameters were used for Atlanta, considered a mecca for black professionals.
617 men met the criteria
1316 women met the criteria
And in San Francisco
222 men met the criteria
315 women met the criteria
In two of the three areas, half of black women would not have a “comparable” male equivalent, and in the other one third would be left out in the cold.
I then took race out of the equation, and just searched for individuals 26-40 who had at least a college degree and no children.
New Orleans (same 35 mile radius as before)
610 men met the criteria
506 women met the criteria
Atlanta (10 mile radius was needed to get below 2000+ hits):
969 men met the criteria
1233 women met the criteria
San Francisco: couldn’t do, everything was 2000+ results even when it was down to a 2 mile radius
The population-at-large in these two metropolitan areas shows a much more even split between males and females, improving women’s odds significantly of finding a comparable mate.
Just a little FYI.
Tia says
hmm wow, yeah that was a rant lol. and i think she made Black women look desperate. date who you want but don’t expect white men to be the magic pill and want to marry you.. They are just men my dear, i can tell you that, men are men and they all have their faults and hangups like the rest of us humans.
Do not exclude whole race of men, what if ur mensch turns out to a black guy, or an asian guy or an arab guy. I do understand some of the racial components in this letter as a black woman, but a man is usually VERY quick to show u thats all he wants and you can move on b4 you ever sleep with him. He will make it known most of the time. Luckily , I have not had this problem with the White guys i have dated. I have had that experience more with Asian Latino, Indian. etc. go figure. I think Evan is right, she needs to be a bit more humble and start looking at people for people, not just mr. white knight and start focusing on the man underneath.
J.A. says
@ M: I agree that the media doesn’t really promote WM/BF relationships as much as BM/WF relationships. Why do you think that is though? I think it’s because for whatever reason, BM/WF coupling is seen as more fashionable in the media. What does everybody else think?
Nicole says
@J.A. #60…I think that even in 2011, there is still the forbidden fruit and Mandingo angle to consider.
White men have always been able to date or sleep with whomever they wanted. So while the idea of an up front, in the open, committed relationship between a BW/WM might seem novel, this kind of coupling has been happening in North America for centuries.
I also think the WW/BM combo fits into the paradigm of the white women being the pinnacle of beauty. It “makes sense” to people.
And of course, there is just the fact that there are far more black men, let alone famous or wealthy black men, who are married to white women than the other way around.
I was hoping that having an amazing black woman in the white house would raise our profile, but alas, it has not.
@A.L. It would take more time, but you should filter on the number of college educated men of ANY race who exclude black women from their list of racial preferences. You figure, looking tops down already shows a dismal picture, but when you factor in all of the men, black or otherwise who list that they don’t want to hear from black women, it gets even worse. (But that doesn’t stop them from emailing you asking for sex).
A-L says
RE: J.A.‘s #60
Sadly, I think that Nicole is on the right track. 1) White women are considered the pinnacle of beauty (therefore desirable by all). 2) For whatever the reason, black women as a whole aren’t considered that attractive by society, and therefore their social value is diminished. (Whether it’s because of physical characteristics or the domineering black female representations common in the media, who knows.) 3) There is a history in the U.S. where sexual relations with black women is fine, but due to their lower social value, no commitment is desired by the male.
RE: Nicole‘s #61
I went on Match, and doing a search as you suggested is a bit difficult. But reverse match is the closest thing I can do. This was for a 30 year old, college-educated, Christian female with no kids who put maybe/not sure if she wanted more kids.
In New Orleans
White only woman: 1766 reverse matches
Black and white woman: 1783 reverse matches (but really 1439*)
Black only woman: 1456 reverse matches
When I changed my zipcode to Atlanta, I had 2000+ reverse matches in each category, so that wasn’t particularly helpful. Perhaps if someone is better at using Match to figure out the answers to Nicole’s questions, they can pipe in here.
I will say that it’s interesting that there are about 1780 guys who would be interested, but only 610 of them are college-educated without kids. Gives us a clue about how discriminating we really are.
*Note about how Match works. By clicking black and white, if a person clicks everything but black, he would pop up in my profile because I clicked white. Ditto for a guy who didn’t want white women, so long as he was willing to date blacks. So the mixed race number is actually less than shown. If a guy’s only willing to date one of my races but not the other, it’s not going to work.
J.A. says
@Nicole
The problem with the mandingo angle is this- it’s a myth that BM have the largest genitalia. There is no statistical proof the race correlates with penis size. That doesn’t stop BM and WW who like BM from thinking it does though.
Plus, and I know this isn’t very PC, but most non-celebrity WW/BM couples I see- the WW is usually unattractive. Perhaps it’s because she knows most WM won’t date her and because a lot of BM would? Like Chris Rock says: “BM will date ANY WW!” The one WW I know who likes BM is average looking at best.
Nicole says
@J.A. At no point did I say that black men had the largest genitalia. It’s a stereotype, and it’s one that benefits them. It’s amazing how widespread the belief is. Funny that you jumped to that conclusion b/c of my reference. That’s all about you and not me.
Regardless of the supposed size of black men’s genitalia, black men AND women are viewed as being hypersexual by some people. There has always been this idea that we are these wild, oversexed creatures. For men, in the dating game this is a plus. It means that women of other races will be curious and more attracted to you. For women, you’ll get crude messages asking for a hookup from people who don’t think it’s a problem asking you for sex while insisting that they’d never want to date you(which says so much about what they think we are like).
I don’t think that anyone who has sexual interest in black men ever complains or notices that they aren’t really any different from other men. That’s how fetishes and stereotypes work. If you don’t fit one, people dont’ stop believing them. And the one person who fits is is taken as “proof” that it’s true for everyone.
People fetishize Asian women the same way. For some people, all Asian women are “hot” and the relative attractiveness or unattractiveness doesn’t matter. People think black men are really “big” and if they find one who isn’t they’ll just brush it off as an anomaly or maybe not even notice.
I don’t make the rules and I certainly didn’t create these stereotypes and please don’t accuse me of writing things that I never even wrote.
@A.L.- Thanks to the internet, you can find a lot of places where people feel free to state all of the things that they think are true about black women, and none of them are EVER good. And as I’d mentioned previously, when people believe in negative stereotypes, they frequently see/hear those things whenever they see a black women. No matter how attractive, poised, or educated she is, they still see the same thing when they see her. Or they assume she’s one of the about five black women in America who isn’t loud and uneducated and mother to a bunch of kids by different men.
Well, I live in an area where a lot of the men (who otherwise claim to be very liberal), largely exclude black women from their preferences. A lot of men either have “Asian or White” or everything but black checked. It means I dislike and consider the services that don’t make racial preferences visible to be a waste of time and money. And yes, I hate when those people turn up in my matches b/c I would NEVER contact someone who put that or respond to people who put it (b/c you know, they will ask for sex or decide perhaps that you don’t fit the stereotype or are otherwise cute and still try to “chat”). The flip side is that you rarely find a black man who lists a racial preference (unless it’s to state that he only wants to hear from non-black women).
J.A. says
@Nicole: I didn’t mean to accuse you of saying something you didn’t say. I actually didn’t know what the word “mandingo’ meant and looked it up haha! From there I guess I just misinterpeted what you were trying to say. A lot of the points you just said make a lot of sense. There are too many people who are attracted to certain people for the wrong reasons.
Nicole says
@J.A. Oh, no problem.
Just funny that the stereotype makes dating so easy for black men but so impossible for black women and unfortunate that it makes men think that any black women can be asked for sexual favors (that I guess their ancestors would have just taken). So sad that in 500 years that is all of the progress we have made.
m says
“1) White women are considered the pinnacle of beauty (therefore desirable by all). 2) For whatever the reason, black women as a whole aren’t considered that attractive by society, and therefore their social value is diminished. “
That’s not an accident.
And since J.A. directed the question at me instead of Nicole, I’ll respond that I certainly have my theories.
There is a lot more exposure in the media of the “Tyler Perry or Eddie Murphy dressed as caricature of black woman” than there are roles for a Gabrielle Union or Kerry Washington.
Zoe Saldana opened two of the biggest films of 2009, Avatar and the Star Trek reboot, and she didn’t get even half the media exposure of, say, a Blake Lively.
It all boils down to the competition for mates that those who are considered – I’ll repeat, considered, which boils down to perception, which can be deliberately shaped – the pinnacle of beauty don’t want.
So that is why I think this
“@ M: I agree that the media doesn’t really promote WM/BF relationships as much as BM/WF relationships. “
is.
Jadafisk says
I don’t think it is easy for black men. They get turned down *a lot* when attempting to date interracially. According to the OKC data, they get massacred re: online response rates. Their stereotypes make them sound like horrible prospective husbands/fathers, and they deal with the overall social stigmatization of blacks as well – the rate of interracial pairings that involve blacks of either gender is exceedingly low, especially considering our population size relative to that of other minority groups. The idealization of black male characteristics, real or stereotypical, is largely happening within the black community.
63. “Plus, and I know this isn’t very PC, but most non-celebrity WW/BM couples I see- the WW is usually unattractive. Perhaps it’s because she knows most WM won’t date her and because a lot of BM would? ”
But… I’ve noticed the same about white male partners of black women, as well. While I don’t date white men (just never happened, for a variety of reasons including the one at hand), I find a wide variety of them appealing, so it’s pretty shocking that I virtually never find the white men I’ve seen with black women attractive. The ones that message me online are about a standard deviation less attractive than the minority men who do, often older and larger, as well. I give white guys a fair shot, but I’m unwilling to play status exchange.
Greg says
@Karl
Thanks for being one of the few people who makes sense on this board. Even though you’re white and wouldn’t understand all the issues of the black community, your advice makes perfect sense. Jae is a giant hypocrite. She is upset that white men can’t see past her race, when she can’t see past race herself. And many black women posters on here have a definite complex. Just because you’re a woman with a degree doesn’t make you better than black men. You may claim that “most” black men don’t have jobs, are players or some other stereotype, but men could claim that you as a black woman are likely to be bossy, loud, manly or overweight. Statistics prove that on average black women are more likely to be overweight, have STD’s and have out of wedlock children. Based on these statistics would it be fair to exclude every black woman? Would it be fair to assume that white women are better since they on average have less of these problems? Of course not. Do you see how ugly stereotypes can be. I thought we were supposed to judge people by character and not skin color.
I know a black girl just like Jae. She told me she liked me, especially how I treated her and that I had all the qualities I was looking for. We became very close and I even though she would be the one I’d marry. However, she couldn’t see past my skin color. She really wanted to marry someone white. Her choice. Now she continues to be rejected by the same men she chases, many of whom have treated her poorly and used her. I used to feel bad for her and was even hurt and upset at one point, but not anymore because she’s being foolish. How can you be upset that white men don’t give you a fair shot when you refuse to give other men a fair chance? People are people. Each group has their own issues, but in the end we’re all the same regardless of skin color.
Like Karl I would run from someone who wanted to be with me primarily because of my race and the perception that came along with it. I want someone to love me for the person I am, not what I look like or my race. Jae you are shallow and its sad. Follow Evan’s advice. Stop looking at race first and start looking at character. Only then will you find happiness.
Greg says
Even though people have been reluctant to use the R word to describe the letter writer I will. It is 100% OK to have preferences, but it is racist to view people as unworthy simply based on skin color.
Latoya says
Wow, all she said was she did not find black men attractive. So all black women have to be attracted to black men?
If so, let’s all agree to like men if your men and women lets all like women. Let’s all not have a physical preference. Let’s all just put a bag over our heads and date whoever has the best personality. Only in a creul world. She has a preference, white guys.
Evan, you just don’t understand. I mean, do you find every black, white, Asian and Indian man and woman you come across attractive? If so, your probably a freak of nature. No one would be on this site if we did not have a PHYSICAL preference.
Saint Stephen says
@Latoya
I find women of all race attractive if they are attractive as an individual- not because of their skin color which has no bearing on looks.
If the LW has a strong preference for white men, to the extent of ruling out all black men of her race- she should go for it. But mind you, she wouldn’t have written to Evan if she was successful in getting her strongly preferred white men to commit to her.
Furthermore, just as she has a preference for white men- so do white men have a stronger preference for women of their own race.
Greg says
Latoya your comment makes no sense. You obviously didn’t read the entire article. There’s a difference between having a preference and completely ruling out every man on the planet who doesn’t have white skin without even getting to know them. Men are men, no matter what the skin color. And you can’t make a certain group of people want you, so you sometimes have to expand you options beyond your strict preferences. That was Evan’s point.
Example, I personally prefer women with big breasts and long hair. This doesn’t mean I exclude women who have short hair or small breasts. That would cause me to drastically limit my dating pool superficially. And there would be nothing I could do to make the limited pool of girls like me, not to mention my shallowness would be readily apparent.
The letter writer also seems like she has some personal problems that are readily apparent to the men she wants to date. She can’t even see her own hypocrisy. She’s mad that white men won’t commit to her because she’s black, but at the same time she refuse to date anyone who isn’t white. The article said it best:
Learn to give men a chance, even if they’re not your type. After all, don’t you want a bunch of Caucasian men to give YOU a chance even if you’re not THEIR type?
Greg says
The letter writer reminds me of a black girl I’ll call Tanya I know who’s in her early twenties. She was only willing to be friends with black men, but desperately pursued white men who were unwilling to commit to her. I didn’t know this was the case when I met her. We developed a close friendship, she liked me and we soon were seeing each other regularly and even travelling together. When I told her that I wanted to become serious, she told me that she only wanted to have me as a friend. However, I eventually found out that she still wanted to pursue a white man that she had met before me. He had made it clear that he only wanted her for a casual relationship and she always complained about how he had hurt her and was selfish. He also had a drinking problem and was involved with other women. I was very hurt and couldn’t understand why she would do that. All of her sisters were married to white men, and she had a terrible relationship with her absentee dad and other male relatives. She also had bought into the negative stereotypes of black men despite being black herself. It seemed that she felt white was automatically better.
I showed a picture of Tanya with her old guy to some 3 of my female friends in another city when I was hanging out with them getting over the pain. One friend was black, one white and one mixed. The all told me to cut Tanya off immediately. They all agreed that her old guy was very unattractive, and that Tanya was exactly like another girl they knew, who only cared to date white men regardless of how they treated her and wouldn’t commit; even when much better options of other races were available. Its very apparent that Tanya and the letter writer both have serious issues. Refusing to date someone of your own race even when you like them and know they’re a good man and desperately idealizing another race is troubling and racist. And that’s probably why good men, both white black Asian etc. are scared away from Tanya and the letter writer.
Greg says
Oh and I forgot to add that just like the letter writer she was extremely beautiful. I’ve never been that strongly attracted to any woman. And she even told me that she had “high standards.” This letter hits really close to home. It’s almost like her and the letter writer are the same person.
Ken says
Maybe, you’re putting too much emphasis on phsical feature such as skin color and your “type”. You should just look for someone that you have more than just a physical connection with. By the way, I am a white man that no only committed to a black woman but has been married 5 years. I am fairly attractive as I have never had a problem getting attractive woman, so keep your head up.
Michelle says
Skin color, like body type – tall, skinny, etc- is just another factor of physical attraction that a person can have a preference for. Is a white guy called a fetishist if he has a preference for a blond white female? Never. How ridiculous would that be? But idealizing and exclusively pursuing based on ANY racial characteristic fits the definition of a fetish. So yes, a white man who exclusively pursues blond white women technically has a white fetish.
We only get upset at other people’s mate preferences insofar as we feel rejected by them. Which is why as a black woman I’ve never had a real problem with Black men preferring to date white women, because I don’t prefer black men, although I have become more attracted to them as my attraction to more classically masculine men has grown in general. This increase in range of what I’m attracted to will hopefully work in my favor.
Would I date an Asian or Indian? Hypothetically yes, but their image is not what I conjure when I think of a man I desire and want to pursue, therefore I understand what a white male who has always pursued white women may feel about a black woman.
Regardless of our ideals, I think Evan has demonstrated with examples from his own life and from the success stories of his clients that some criteria matters more than others and we can find the happiness with someone who is far from what we idealize.
That is the only message that should have been directed at this woman and not the unfair and harsh criticism or her racial ideals. We all have them. Get over it.
marymary says
I,d date any race. knowing someone’s race tells you nothing about them. it doesnt tell you where they were born, what language they speak, what their religion is. I have no preference for eye colour or hair colour either. I do have a soft spot for red hair though.
i don’t recommend we all rush out and date the two-headed but I think actually, no, it’s not okay to have physical preferences if you’ve reached a certain age and still single. I,d say that your search for the physical template is blinding you to what really matters.
And sadly the older we get the less likely we are to meet anyone,s physical ideal so we need to be flexible. It,s what inside that counts.
SparklingEmerald says
marymary said @78 – “I think actually, no, it’s not okay to have physical preferences if you’ve reached a certain age and still single.”
—————————————————————-
Believe me, I WISH, I could feel attraction for ANY guy who is into me. I would surely be coupled up by now, if that pesky physical attraction factor wasn’t there gumming up the works. However, if I could make a picture collage of all the men I’ve been attracted to (not just in relationships with, but men I’ve found attractive also) you would see that looks-wise, it’s all over the place, and you might even think, “Jeez, she’s into any Tom, Dick & Harry”. I couldn’t tell you what physical features I am attracted to. I have actually occasionally met men that were very physically attractive, that I have not felt attraction to. I thinks it’s a combination of body language, voice tone, facial expression on countenance. And pheremones perhaps ?
There are a few physical features that I really like, such as the “silver fox” look, and I do know that the vulnerable boyish “cuteness” is generally one of my favorites looks (maybe because subconsciously I know I am more in the “cute” category than the “beautiful” “georgeous” or “hot” category )
Of course, I am attracted to most men who fall into the hot rock star category, but that’s usually from afar, I’m generally not approached by them. And even if they did, I’d figure they were “dating down” for some easy booty.
When it comes to physical looks, often times I am unattracted to a guy and most of the time I couldn’t link it to a specific look or body type. Sometimes I can. One man I met, his picture didn’t show it, but he had really AWFUL teeth. He seemed like a very sweet man, but his personality didn’t excite me AND, I was trying really hard not to stare at those teeth. He asked for a second date, and I told him that I had a lovely time (I offered to pay for my coffee and pie but he declined) but that I didn’t think that were a match and we hugged good bye,.
I know I’m 58 (almost 59) and my options have just about dried up. But really, I’m supposed to cozy up to a man who’s teeth revolt me, just because I’m out of options ? Or even a man who has no obvious physical unattractiveness, that I just feel ZERO chemistry for ?
Believe me, I know it’s slim pickings for me, I know I have close to zero options, and from reading what the men say on this blog, women are considered pretty worthless after a certain age, which I have passed long ago.
But honestly, I would rather live my life alone, than to be wincing & cringing because the man I’m sharing a bed with wants to spoon.
TJ says
I won’t bother trying to analyze the heck out of her preference in men or taking her to the mat for her perceived arrogance as that’s already been done. Still, the reality is that our dating choices are not divorced from and unrelated to history and social norms. Life ain’t fair but it is what it is. My perspective is peculiar to the US because that’s where I live, but I imagine black women in other parts of “the West” deal with similar realities. I’ve dated all kinds of men but at the end of the day, I exist in a culture and stream of history that a) sees race as a hierarchy with whites on top and blacks at the very bottom b) views black women in particular as being of low status, little value, and hyper-sexed but not due the respect, bodily autonomy, or protection that puts the sexuality of other women on a pedestal c) subscribes to a standard of beauty that references a northern European norm and d) values women overall less than men and primarily in terms of beauty. Of course these are gross generalizations and not everyone buys into these notions uncritically. But enough people do that when I’m dating white men in particular there are certain very obvious ways that this sometimes influences our interactions. I walk into the situation knowing that some of these are men who have been taught subtly from birth that I’m an exotic flavor of the month who is good for hot sex but “beneath him” when it comes to love and marriage. I walk in knowing that even if he really likes me, familial disapproval or peer disapproval has the potential to put the brakes on it. No point in sweating it. They will do exactly what they want to do and because they are at the top of the gender and racial hierarchy in this country they have a lot of options. Unless they are a genuinely exceptional person, they will go for what they know and what they find affirming to themselves. Move on, work on yourself in the meantime, develop realistic expectations, and decide where and if you can compromise. If you keep doing the same thing, lightning may strike, but you’re likely to get results. One can’t always have her cake and eat it too.
Bridgettweeter says
LOL. Black men state all the time they only choose to date white women AND some how this is very understandable, BUT let a black women say she is perfers white men THEN the world comes to a stop. ACCUSATIONS of self loathing and hating ones self comes along. WELL let’s look at this whole self loathing thing. The number of black women who date black men are 10 to 1. The rest of the black men are either gay, in prison or suffering from addiction. THIS is the dating pool in which her sister is able to find a committed man. WHY would I have a drug addict or a ex con or a brother on the down low as a good mate. THE ONE guy who is straight and employed knows he has his pick and sleeps with all the women he is able to NEVER having to commit to ONE. There are more college educated black women than there are men. We know that college education increases the income. So these women are making more money with corpate career while expected to date the local truck drivers, cooks and ex cons simply because SHE has been born black. REALLY???? The AMERICAN male is taught the very last thing in this world he should be stuck with is a black woman. GIVE me a f BREAK!!!! I feel you sister girl. IT isnt in your heard. IT IS REAL. YOU ARE NOT APPRECIATED FOR YOU DARK SKIN THICK LIPS AND AMPLE BUTT. YOU ARE SEEN AS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF BEAUTIFUL AND NOT DESERVING OF RESPECT LOVE AND COMMITMENT. My advice GIVE UP ON AMERICANS. THEY area lost lot. Consider moving to Europe where beautiful women are just beauty regardless of the darkness of their skin.
Arial says
I agree with you. I have come across many black men who have stated that they will never date a black women but if a black women says she doesn’t like black men there is something wrong with her and she hates herself. That’s just the crazy country we live in. Black men all my life have been rude and nasty towards me but it’s always the guys of other races who have called me beautiful and treated me the way a women should be treated.
I have guy friends that are of other races and when I go out with them black men stare me down as if they own me or something. Actually today when I went to the gym, there were 2 black guys that wouldn’t even look my way when they walked by me and I was alone but when my best friend who is puerto rican but looks Arab met me at the front of the gym, you couldn’t get them to stop staring lol.
The thing is black men can do whatever they want but black women are suppose to be mules and remain loyal to men that don’t even celebrate them. Black women need to be with men that celebrate them and not tolerate them. If she likes white men that is her preference and her preference alone because at the end the day she’s going to be with him not the rest of the world.
I’m not saying all black men are like this but a lot of them are and yes traveling to another country is a great idea for black women because our skin and unique features are celebrated rather than called ugly like in our own country.
I just wish she would have sought advice from somewhere else because, some of the people here don’t know the struggles that us black women face every day. We are the only race of women that our men do not protect. We can all choose to date whomever we like because attraction is not something chosen but if our own men beat up on us that makes us even more vulnerable to the world.
Black women should be able to date who ever they want. This advice is all wrong. I believe there are men of other races that would want to commit to her she’s just looking in the wrong places and perhaps needs to broaden her circle of people.
fRUSTRATED says
YES. THANK YOU. this is on point.
Oneca says
I have to say that your statement is a little unfair .
I am a black women married to an Asian/Puerto Rican man in America and I married him because I loved him. I have to preference because that would have limited me in finding love. I have two fine ass sons who are mixed but more on the black side than Asian and what am I supposed to tell them? You’re too much on the black side so your no attractive (like she is saying). What if that will be her case in the future? I personally know two people who swirled up so they wont have an all black baby w/ pretty hair and guess what. They their kids cam out dark and lovely.
And it so crazy because one of the mother put big hats on her daughter so she won’t get darker ( that’s self hate).
As for all black men being in jail and Gay or on drugs? Where do you live? I have plenty uncles; no jail birds who grew up went to school and did something with their lives like they’re supposed to. They are more like dentists, College professors (Syracuse University) , Engineers, Delivery Drivers, Has own Business (more like 4) , Mechanics, Ministers etc…. and are married to Black women my aunts. Maybe she is looking in the wrong places or something is wrong w/ her. I had 5 marriage proposals; But I’m a cool ass chick so…..
She can like white men but don’t put down your own to justify your attraction or obsession. ALL black mothers are not all raising knuckle heads because my son is a scientist like his GREAT Grandfather and I want him to be good to women. It’s not fair the curse our men and our future generation of men. Lets fix what is broken.
Arial says
Dear Jae,
I don’t believe your living in a dream world. Your preference is yours alone, no matter what anyone thinks because at the end of the day, you are the one that will be with your lover, not the world. There will always be people who will want to challenge you for dating outside of your race and that’s just how it is for black women that are open with there dating preferences for men of different races.
I do believe however that you should change the way you approach interracial dating. I want to share with you a few things that I’ve learned throughout the years( I’m also a black women who dates men of different races). I use to and sometimes still do have the problem of getting more attention from the guys that I don’t like than the ones that I do but what I’ve learned is that those guys that I’ve liked, they most likely weren’t a good match for me in the first place. What you have to first realize before you can be successful at interracial dating is that you have to see that White men are just Men. I think sometimes we can get to caught up in so many things that we forget about the person. This can stop us from finding the love that we want and deserve.
To make a man commit you have to see him first as just a man. you can like whomever you choose but you have to just let things flow and allow the man to be the lead. when you allow him to do this, he will therefore have earned you which then will make him value you. If there is to much pressure on a guy to commit he will do the opposite and leave because they want to feel like they’ve earned you. So enjoy who he is as a man first as well as who he is and then show him the the wonderful person that you are(This man should be a good man, not just any man). This won’t work for all men that you like but there will be the men that will come along and appreciate as well as value the women that you are.
Dating sites can be a little tougher for black women, that is true but that doesn’t mean you can’t find love. I have met white men, Spanish men, and Arab men online that have never dated a black women but wanted to be with me. Don’t get me wrong I have had my fair share of weirdos, more so than the guys I have actually liked so I understand how hard it can be for you and how you can feel like giving up at times. Try sites that are more suited towards your preference such as interracial dating site or match.com. You could possibly have more success by joining these sites .
When you write your online profile, take some time and really think about what you want and who your wanting to attract. Making your profile interesting is one of the the keys to online dating. One way to look at it is, that you are your own brand and by creating value for that brand your going to want to set yourself apart from the competition(Other female members).Show them who you are by creating an interesting story about yourself or describe what the perfect day would be like for you or with you. You want the men that are going to want and celebrate you not the men that only tolerate you.
Try getting involved with new activities, take a class, do something different that you’ve never tried before. Widen the circle of people that you know and expose yourself to new things. By doing this you will increase your chances of attracting more of the types of men that you like and I’m sure there will be a man that will want to commit to you. Love. like anything else in life, takes nurturing and working on. If something doesn’t seem to be working out for us, we have to realize that it’s time to change our strategy and never give up no matter how hard the road ahead seems to be.
My last note is try and find communities where there are people that have the same preferences and likes as you. You can can use this as a tool to help you when you feel little down about interracial dating. Beyondblack&white.com is a blog that I think you could possibly enjoy! It’s a community for black women who like and want to date interracial. It offers interesting articles, success stories of BWWM relationships and so so much more…
I truly hope you find the love your looking for
God Bless.
Oneca Stanislaus says
Bravo! I could not have answered her letter any better that. But, lets not rule out that she sounds kind of crazy too. If black men are not attractive in her eyes then she may not like herself and if desperate to erase her bloodline. It sound far out there but I know some narrow minded women who think like that and it sad because no one should be used. The way her letter sound is as if any white man will do. What about love no matter the race?
Karmic Equation says
I’m Asian and only date Caucasian men. I like “western” eyes and high cheekbones. All my bfs and my one now ex-husband were Caucasian.
I avoid dating men who disclose they have “yellow fever” or who’ve “never dated an Asian woman before”. By coincidence those same men are men I don’t typically find attractive anyway, so it’s not a loss. Some of my bfs had never dated an Asian woman before me, but they never felt a need to comment on my race, which means they saw me as female first and my race as inconsequential.
Jae should avoid dating men who disclose that they’ve never dated a black woman before, particularly if she’s looking for commitment. They’re only into her for her exoticism and as something to check off their sexual bucket list. As well, if we consider that men will date below their league to get sex, you can bet white men will date below their league for “exotic” sex. So it’s quite possible that Jae’s “real” league is not as high as she thinks it to be.
That said, even though we live in a less discriminatory world than ever before, not all races are created equal when it comes to dating. What I mean is that while dating a Latina or an Asian woman is dating “outside” of a Caucasian man’s race, dating a black woman is dating “farther” outside their race than dating Latinas or Asians, if you think of race as a continuum when it comes to dating, with white on one end and black on the other and other races are in between the ends.
I have a Caucasian gf who ONLY finds black men attractive and the men she finds attractive, I usually don’t, but not because they’re black, but because of our different ideas of what constitutes an attractive black man. However, she can appreciate good looking white men, she just doesn’t want to date them. But for her, there may be some self esteem issues lurking in the background as well as what she finds attractive. For example, I’d date Shemar Moore (if he’d deign to date ME haha) — but I wouldn’t date Denzel or Danny Glover. I believe Shemar is mixed race, which would explain his more Caucasian features, whereas Denzel and Danny Glover have more purebred black features. But my friend would prefer Denzel and Danny over Shemar. See what I mean?
So, I think most folks are being too hard on Jae. I, personally, believe that Caucasian men are by far THE most attractive, not because they’re white, but because I personally find the facial features that most Caucasian men have (deep set eyes, high cheekbones) much more attractive than, say, the bulgy eyes and flat faces of most Asian men. It’s a reality that certain facial features correspond highly to race, so while us non-white folks say we prefer caucasians over our own race, it may not be the race itself that we prefer, but it’s just easier to group those facial features into a race than say “high cheekbones and western eyes.”
Suzanne says
I totally appreciate her question I am feeling the same thing in reverse. I only date black men. Now go find an educated, black alpha male that wants a white female for more then sex. It is not easy to say date white and black. The thought of being with a white man does not work for me either. I feel her pain.
Renee says
Wow I came with the sane question and thank you for answering so poignantly and with so much maturity. Sometimes the truth can be hard to hear, and not to say that she or I could never get what we want, but I’m 34 going on 35 and very attractive outgoing, and kind I cannot wait for
Honesty says
Oh please Evan,
In another topic about an asian woman only wating to date white men (and no asian men) you responded a lot more mildly to her. The woman said she was afraid to have kids that looked Asian and you were like: oooh, totally get that, all fine, don’t do the politically correct. Now this black woman says she only likes white men and you respond in a much more hostile way, telling her to change her preferences as if she is not good or beautiful enough to date a white man up to her level. Pawease. I highly doubt you have dated women from all ethnicities. The hypocrisy is strong with you.
JennLee says
I just read both again and I see nothing overtly wrong with Evan’s replies. They are two totally different situations. The Asian woman was attracted to white men but felt guilty about it. She had no problems finding white men she was attracted to who would marry her. to tell the truth, I have never met another Asian woman like her and can’t relate to her inner turmoil. Evan was letting her know that it is OK to just go with it if it is working for her. If the only thing holding her back was her guilty feelings about it, then he was saying there was no need to feel guilty.
In the other scenario, we had a black woman who wanted one of the top tier white men, but those men weren’t willing to marry her. There are many huge differences. For one, there is a a lot of vitriol directed at whites by blacks in this country, which will make many white men think twice about marriage to a black woman. The bottom line as Evan was pointing out was that she was insisting on finding a man in a pool of men who are not interested in marrying her. Evan’s advice to her is consistent with what he tells everyone who insists on dating somebody from a pool of people who are not very interested. He tells them to learn to accept those people who ARE interested in marrying. In this case there are white men who would commit to her, but they are not to her high standards. So the truth is that nobody who is willing to commit to her, such as black, Hispanic, Asian, and white men who are not top tier. That is like a 300 pound woman insisting on model good looking man. Don’t get the comparison wrong. I am not saying this black woman is like a 300 pound woman. I am saying that the 300 pound woman is insisting on finding a man in a pool of men who are never going to marry her, which is the same thing as what this woman is doing.
Adromeda says
LOL You Low self esteem. All human being are the same regardless of color. You hate your own race and color SMH! You need help.
friend of Jesus says
Far more White Women are seeking Black Men than Black Women seeking white men, so you are a very small minority. I find many blogs where the white man is asking why black women don’t like white men. If you look at all interracial marriages, the smallest of those numbers would be Black Woman and white man.
The largest or most common would be white women and black men, followed by Chinese women and white men. The Chinese woman white man is some what a falsetto, because most are mail order brides, many with men 18 – 30 years older then the Chinese woman. I dont know if that qualifies or if there is some other (psychological) issue at play.
frustrated says
Unless you all have been in her shoes, none of you have the right to call her self loathing or too picky. I am in the same boat (biracial, black and white) and am having the EXACT same problem. There is clearly a disparity in that white men will date her but not commit, while they are more likely to commit to someone of the same race as them. It’s frustrating being treated as a “fetish” or being a secret romance, when you’re genuinely interested in romance with that person.
The fact that she has a type (white men) doesn’t make her self loathing. I’m sure half of the people judging her would venture to say that they are exclusively attracted to a certain race or other physical trait. Some men only love blondes…some women won’t date asian men…what’s the difference?
Grow up
Vashti says
Anyone, including Evan who has left nasty judgmental comments in regards to Jae has zero respect from me. Jae is a woman who knows what she wants and seems as though she has put much thought into her reasoning for having a preference for Caucasian men. One obviously being, she is not attracted to black men. Stop being bitter and hating on this attractive black female just because her preferences vary from the norm. I’ve seen countless comments via different sites and forums where black men admit to not finding black women attractive. So what? If that’s their subject opinion then it is what it is. And if biased Evan were honest, he probably does not find black women attractive which would explain his advice to Jae. Readers should put their bias natures behind and reread what Evan wrote. Read between the lines of his advice and also comments left on this post and you’ll see the true ugly, biased nature of the writer. I have girlfriends who share the very same insight as Jae and successful attractive white men DO commit to them and try their best to tie them down into marriage. They have their pick and choose to take their time. They do not settle for any successful attractive white man just because he meets the profile, they look at the personality, morality and ethical standing of the man.
Evan Marc Katz says
Will only respond by informing you that you’re incorrect: I find black women quite attractive and have gone out with quite a few. So much for your theory.
Zara says
This is quite bizarre, the desperation in Jaes letter is off putting, no wonder men wont commit. Race here is irrelevant..I mean if she gave the others a chance chances are they to wont commit. So yes i agree wholeheartedly with Evans feedback,
I am a Somali woman ethnicity wise. I consider myself a Black British woman. My husband is Irish but born and raised in London. we got married when he was 28 and i was 25. we have 2 children and are very compatible. Before him I never really gave racial differences a chance. to me my men are like my food. I like what I like it is what it is. Why have just the salad when u can choose from the whole buffet.
One of the major attractions towards me my husband specifically stated was my love for my culture. So even though i Integrated into british society (i was born in cardiff UK) i still maintained respect and reverence for my origins.
we met when i was 22 at a work party. We had chemistry and connected straight away. I never assumed he wanted just sex. (i was a virgin anyway)
This never stopped him pursuing me, we took it very slow and I loved his company. I fell in love with his alpha male character, and he loved my “femininity and intelligence”
Yes he made many comments about my looks out of curiosity, but tbh i liked the focus? why not I am different and his human. he wanted to know why i eat bananas with my rice lol i liked explaining it.
He did ask me about my ancestry because of my european asian like hair. and I told him every thing i knew. I learnt a lot from him to, mainly irish history and the difference between irish and english. (i didnt think there was much before i met him)
My point is…..when two people from different races come together, they do merge some differences. how we respond to the interest is of huge significance.
I love my husband very much. and he loves me. we still date each other even though married. and our union isnt boring. He has a right to express anything to me. likewise i do the same. we dont have a sensitivity chip. and both our families see us as individuals more so than the colour of our skin.
when i first met my mother in law first thing she said to me was “you are gorgeous i love your complexion” i replied I like your dimples lol and she laughed.
it really is that simple. I dont need to twist her compliment into negativity such as (why is my skin the first thing she sees)
Jaes problem is self loathing I can see it from reading her letter to Evan.
Love yourself before you expect others to love you.
It doesnt matter that your physically attractive Jae. All men connect with emotional attractiveness in a woman. try to be more positive and go with the flow. Men sense when you are a try hard.
I love my somali men, I was raised by a king and my brothers are princes. Ive dated from my own race. but my destiny just happened to be my husband.
I notice in every race there is the good the bad and the “ugly” so stop down grading black men whilst praising white men. this is what makes you appear like you have self loathing issues.
If my husband pursued me with a chip on his soldier about white women, putting them down and seeing me as an exotic prize in the process. I would have been put off.
Character is what i scan for before i put my guard down.
I wish you the best in life.
and remember three things are destined in life…as i believe……time/place of your death, who you marry (how ever many times) and what off spring you have.
This is my belief which i used to navigate through life. it helps because in using this belief i was able to focus on what makes me happy my career and hobbies and leave everything else to happen through fate.
whats yours wont miss you.
be positive, be happy, be humble and remember everyone is not the same. so dont chase one race whilst putting down another under the guise of preference.
there is a thin line between preference and prejudice.
If you sincerely just are more attracted to white men. still even so…quit putting them on a pedestal because of race. and qualify a man based on character. when you stop focusing on his skin colour he may look beyond yours.
Have more confidence, by being more positive
King regards Zara
and my apologies in advance for the essay.
TransientDude says
That was a great response. She’s not being honest with herself and using white men as a deflection to avoid getting over the pain she’s experienced from black men of her own group. I had a friend like her who only dated Indian and Arab guys. She sounds just like her.
older hopefully wiser says
But sound advice and well worth the read. Heart warming to read that you and your husband still date!
Tricia says
The issue is clearly with her. The UK is very open to interracial couples much more so than the US in a lot of respects and I’ve never had a problem dating seriously any race of men. She has entitlement issues and hang ups regarding sex.
Bobby says
A lot’s of times when women state that they don’t date someone of their own race, then the person that they do date sees them as someone they can get with because of race, Secondly the person will always wonder how many men of his race has the woman been with and not take her seriously, once again the woman doesn’t have to state her preference to her date he can see that she is of another race, and the first thing he thinks is that he is not the first. So sometimes your preference can work against you that way.
TransientDude says
This is human nature. You get hurt by your own group and you think the grass is greener on the other side based off romanticized images and stories told by friends, family, media, etc. Us American guys go through this a lot when we hear of tales of someone we know who has conquered one or more lands inhabited by Asian women and now has settled down with an Asian goddess which is the pure essence of femininity. From that point on we bow down to the image of the Asian goddess and vow to obtain one of these beauties at all costs. Once we do we realize she’s no different from the American women we’ve despised after breaking our hearts a million and one times. Then we swear off marriage to any woman because our Asian goddesses have either broken our hearts or have not lived up to our impossible expectations. Then the cycle continues to the next group of women we put on a pedestal. For the problem can never be us but it’s always them for a myriad of reasons. We’re just perfect.
This woman is severely hurting and looking for love in all the wrong places. I hope she realizes that her heart is what’s causing men not to want to be with her. She’s putting herself in position in which she’s never going to be satisfied with whomever she attracts whether white, asian, arab, indian, etc.
older hopefully wiser says
Well put
Aesha says
I love you, Evan, but I think you missed an important on this one. There ARE differences between Black women and white women and they come into play in the dating world. The OKC study revealed that Black women were the least contacted of all women of any race. There are deep sociohistorical and sociocultural reasons for why this happened. But Jae is choosing the wrong white men, as there are white men who love the sistas! I don’t expect you to know this stuff offhand, but it helps to understand that race does matter in relationships. If Jae were my client, I’d tell her to position herself to be found by the right white men on sites that geared toward interracial dating. I’d teach her how to ask questions to screen out the guys who have a Black woman fetish. she may even have to open up to international men (I have friends who married German men and are happy). So, no, she can’t control if a man–white, black, or otherwise will commit to her–but she sure can have what she wants!
Sass says
I agree with Aesha and many others who said no one has a right to judge her preferences or why. But if she wants to have success meeting white men she has to find places where white men who aren’t interested in black women have been screened out, such as a interracial dating websites. There are also interracial dating groups on Meetup.com where I live. Yes you will have to screen out those interested in the fetish but you have to do that anyway regardless of where you chose to meet people (and what race you’re interested in, to be honest, cause last I checked there are a sizable number of men of ALL races who are only ever going to be interested in casual sex). Evan’s suggesting she be open and just play the numbers but that to me disregards that she has a right to her preferences — something I don’t think Evan or any of the other naysayers here would put on a person of any other race.
Jojo says
lol, please don’t tell her to date black men… we don’t need the head ache…
ann says
HA! You just need to find a man who will commit, forget about what race. Just make sure you are attracted to him. Any race will do. You have to find a situation where you can help the man. Focus on a problem or situation- not anything physical. People who meet during a difficult event or at work in a platonic situation have a much better chance. Act like you are not thinking about him in any physical way. If he likes you, he will “chase” you. Play coy… or better yet…hopefully you will only think of him as “just a casual friend.” Later you will like him. Men must hunt (all men). If white men wont commit to you and you want a white man, I feel terrible. You should easily find any man you want in this day and age. I personally do NOT want a white man so you are in no competition with me! (I am white here). If it is that hard, go to a marriage minded interracial site, which just about cancels out what I said. Just date someone who is open minded. DO NOT date an arrogant white man who is not open. Date open minded people only!
KikoLee says
I came across this post and I got so engrossed reading it and reading comments to it that I decided to leave my 2 cents. Like Jae , I’m a 36 year old black woman, whereas she’s American, I’m African. I’m also ivy league educated and I share her attraction to white man. I agree with many that there is nothing wrong with being attracted to one particular race over the other, to my is just a matter of physical qualities that are attractive to you, so this is a subjective preference which neither of should really judge on. I do think however that some element of her attitude towards men dating and commitment is pushing her to choose the wrong men. Being a black woman who has had relationships with white men, they tended to end because of a series of issues in the relationship, same way as my relationship with black men. Whereas I can believe that there are men that can date but won’t marry, I think those are pretty few. I think the issue is probably that she is soo focused on commitment and ticking all the boxes that she doesn’t see that these guys are a wrong choice to begin with. It has been my experience that if a white man is serious about the relationship (with a black women), he expects acceptance from family and friends and therefore a black woman could never be in the -I just date you category. It is also important I feel to point out that, when younger I placed huge importance on education levels, and whereas today I still expect the men am serious about to be educated, above and beyond that I expect him to be intelligent (which is not the same thing). Today I would marry someone with an undergraduate or some college education in a heartbeat. So long as he’s solid, ambitious, knows where he wants to get in live and works hard to get.. that trumps any masters oor phd certificate. Lastly, all the white men I’ve dated are from all over, different backgrounds, some had dated outside the race, others not. Ultimately it is about forming bonds and relationships with men, not about getting bogged down with race.
Carl says
They stink….
Liz says
This response was so disappointing. Evan typically gives good kind advice, and this time he really let me down. I can’t help but think any other race of woman in your predicament would have gotten understanding and encouragement and genuine patient advice, but you just got told to fuck off and give up. It seems black woman is always disparaged, discouraged and relegated a corner somewhere out of sight, no matter what she says thinks or wants.
It’s also annoying how it’s always considered normal and acceptable when it’s a white man saying the entire race of women are “just not their type.” It’s overlooked and met with amusement. Even Evan just shrugs and says “well you cant’ change us! *elbow and wink* When the fact is that’s not even your real issue. Your issue is only seeing what you’re afraid of, not what’s really there. There are plenty of white men who will commit to any kind of woman that he wants. I see white men with black wives. I see it. It happens. I just saw it yesterday.
Yes, it happens much less than the opposite type of couple but the point is, it’s not like hitting the lottery. It does happens. In fact, it is happening somewhere RIGHT NOW. There is no reason it can’t happen for you. You just need to find the right man.
Evan implied you’re wrong for not being attracted to your own race of men but I don’t really agree. My theory is that a white man who won’t date or commit to a black woman but will do so inter-racially with any other race except black is just racist and shallow. Many white people date exclusively black. Many white men date exclusively Asian. I don’t see a problem. A person who in general is attracted to one race, even if it’s not their own, just has a preference. I dont see why you being a black female means you are not allowed to have a preference like anyone else.
Your problem is likely that you are probably dating in that first group of men. The shallow racist thrill seeker. And you don’t want them anyway. They think they’re a prize to you but they are merely rejects. Continue to date your white men if that’s what turns you on. (Men keep telling us to have no standards and take more ugly men, but considering that so much of sexual pleasure for a woman is mental I dont think you want to look up [or down as the case may be] while in bed and see something you find repulsive. Way to have to spend the rest of your life relying on toys) Just be very careful about which white men you date.
Watch these men and see why they like you, how they treat you, what they say to you. If you meet a man and his focus is on your skin tone and not WHO YOU ARE AS A PERSON, drop him. Fast.
I’m a black woman and I like asian men. People constantly tell me “give up, they wont like you, you must hate your own race.” Nope, I don’t hate myself or my race. I’ve just liked asian guy since i was a kid. I don’t know why I like them. And i shouldn’t need to. I’m tired of getting this extra judgment and punishment over the kind of men i like. It’s just another way people exercise racism towards us. That’s all it is. And guess what? ASIAN MEN DO LIKE ME. They do. All the time. Because I’m nice. And I’m funny. And I smile a lot. I’m cheerful. I’m helpful. I’m accepting of others. I’m pollite and respectful. I’m bright. I’m always paying attention. Who doesn’t like girls like me? All men do, regardless of what they say. They see a nice girl who likes them and makes them feel good in their company and knows how to have fun, and they simply find it hard to just say “NOPE!!! MY ANACONDA DON’T WANT NONE!”
A lot of men might not even KNOW that they’d like a black woman until they meet me. You might be an eye-opener too! So go out there and give those handsome vanilla hotties the joy of meeting a black woman that they CAN like. They need that in their lives. Desperately. White men need to get off this shallow kick they have about who they’d neeeeeeeeeveeeeeer eeeeever want based solely on looks and skin tone, because the truth is most of us dont have a freaking CLUE what we need or want. Not until we find it. And neither do they.
Go out there, be yourself, and let the man who’s meant for you find you. When you find him you will know. And so will he.
(And save me a slice of your beautiful interracial wedding cake.)
older hopefully wiser says
Thank you for this post it was validating.
Jessa says
Same thing could be said about men that don’t date plus-size women. They sh pi P’s just “give them a chance even though they are their type”. But you’ll get an by the thousands saying “we just aren’t attracted to big women”. Jae just isn’t attracted to black men. Kind of how some black men aren’t attracted to black women. I don’t see the issue. It’s okay for an to want a specific race and body shape but when a women is just a picky she’s a egotistical bitch somehow lol
Jessa says
Man* not an…lol all these damn typos but Yea. Its always a crime when black women have preferences smh
Jessa says
They should just *
Addison Kayne says
Regardless of race there must be a pattern in her behavior that these men see that make her unattractive and someone who isn’t commitment worthy. Her letter screams “I’m a woman with issues” and men see that they will run far away regardless of race.
The Truth says
As a black african women, who is Nigerian I am in between this argument. There are some points from both sides I agree with. I have dated Nigerian men and white European men and some were good and some were a mess regardless of their race now I’m engaged to a German guy but I didn’t seek him Becayse he is white but because we just just matched in so many ways. However I do have my preferences cause I am not attracted to african American men, not cause of their race but because of the mentality in how many NOT ALL act towards their women and other women. Now I’m not saying all are bad but a significant amount are a mess and as a result the african American community is being affected cause of this behavior. The family structure has been dismantled in the community and baby daddy and momma culture is glorified. This is not only from what have seen but I have heard this from african American women and at times men about this issue. so when black women like jae send letters like this she is coming from a deep area of hurt which is understandable.
Now after reading what jae said, I feel there are some points on both sides. I feel jae has a right not to be attracted to black men or her own race but have attraction to white men. Maybe the qualities that lack in men in her community are high to her in white American men, you can’t blame her for thinking this way since baby mama/baby daddy culture is not high with white Americans. However she needs to understand the consequences of that as a black American woman in America that she is going to have a tough time finding somebody for her for many reasons: 1. Black women have less options then black men when dating/marrying outside their race in America 2. She is not mentioning the quality of white men she is looking for and the ones she is looking to are not looking at her direction for marriage or at all. Maybe she needs to expand her options to white men overseas to be honest cause the bitter truth is most educated and successful white American men don’t consider black American women wife material regardless of whether your hot, humble, nice, educated and etc. they group the Michele Obama, Kerry Washington types with the Nikki Minaj and beyonces without hesitation. I was in a forum years ago and a question was asked to white American men about dating and marrying outside their race particularly black American women and a significant amount of the answers were just cold, insensitive and racist and that was a eye opener for me. Black American women need to know that men regardless of race in America don’t look at most black American women positively and so the odds are against then compared to a white American women where she will have more options. It is sad but true and black American women need to accept this, love themselves regardless and find lope holes against American men of that thinking.
when it comes to what evan said he had some points that jae was in fantasy land and wasn’t in reality, which I agree to a extent. Also when reading her letter I sense some frustration from her which evan must have picked up as well. From what I picked up she seems fed up with it all. I don’t agree however that she should be forced to consider men in her community when many black American men are doing it to their women and are not criticized for it. That is wrong advise although I do feel her mentioning about her looks as if she is all that wasn’t helping her case and made her look vain. I’m not saying looks she be disregarded but it shouldn’t be the end all. I think evan picked that up from her, which all of us did but this is a issue beyond what evan was saying. It’s a african American issue that needs to be solved by african Americans especially the women.
my advise for JAE is she first need to reevaluate what she wants In life and what qualities she wants in her partner in her life. Now if she wants a quality white man she needs to go after the ones that have interest for her genuinely and not just for fetishes which I feel some commenters expressed here is who she was bumping into and put less emphasis on looks cause it seems she is going after some white men that just see her as a bed warmer and not going after ones that actually showed genuine interest. You will need to expand your options to white men overseas and interracial dating sites designed for black women and white men or dating sites that are in favor of that, like afrointrofuctuons.com for example. That site has many testimonials of successful black women/ white men couples but 99% of those couples are foreign mostly of african or Caribbean women with European men. Also next time ask advise from a black women(ex. Christelyn karazin – beyond black or white) who is having success in dating white men or married to white men but understands your dilemma cause not only will they be real and give you solutions to that goal but they will not be insensitive to you at the same time when responding. Many black women with similar issues as yours have asked similar questions from her on her website, YouTube, Facebook and her responses were real with solutions without the shut downs and Insensitivities. Evan is a white American man and even though he in the end of that day he was real to you in some things but other things just seem like he was shutting you down completely and I just feels it’s because he can never really understand your experiences as a black American women in America dating interracially even though I don’t feel you were coming from the best place when you sent that letter to evan but I do sense the pain and frustration in your letter as a black women.
The Truth says
I just realized jae is from the uk and I heard they have similar issues with American women. Even though 35% of black Caribbean women end up with white men which higher then 12% of african American women who end up with white American men. When I say European I am talking about French, Italian and German men for the most part
littlecece says
I can understand where you’re coming from Jae. It seems plenty of haters have commented. Here is the gut baseline: trust your instincts. If for some reason you really like a certain look you need to bite the bullet and ask yourself why- if you’re only attracting players and you already have a feeling they only want sex that just means that’s all they want; there are plenty of attractive women of color who have married men that are not of color. Maybe a person being “white” isn’t what you’re really looking for. I assume when you think of “white” it is because that is the culture you best identify with as far as your perspectives and life goals; however, just because that is true does not mean that another person can see that. Show them how cool you really are and be confident. Truth is, being with someone is a privileged and if your sister has a different lifestyle than you do try hanging out in places where successful men of your caliber are and don’t bring up race. Just show them how much you have in common and how cool you are and if it is meant to be more it will be. No one can be forced to see your point of view; you need to be friendly and open and risk having a no once again. I have met white men who only date black women because that is their preference (in the US), maybe its a matter of it not being a white guy but being the RIGHT guy. Sometimes people have preconceived ideas about things based on false information. Keep being yourself and show what a great person you are- whether they see it or not is your basis for a commitment. And, if possible, trust your instincts. You have been played enough times to see the kind of behavior that leads to this refusal to commit. Maybe there is something on your part you can change about that.
Sabrina says
Jae certainly has issues but her romantic or sexual preference isn’t one of them! As a black woman who has dated mostly white men, and has a marked attraction to white Slavic men at that, I’m offended by all the judgemental narrow minded attitudes I’m reading here. Would you tell gays they were wrong to not date the opposite sex? Seems like everyone except black women are allowed to date whomever they want without being shamed for it!
Kelsey says
I think that your response here is rather short-sighted and assumptive. I can’t get over how you likened her to a 40-year-old subway guitarist who plays for tips.
You seem to vilify her “high standards” and her being “fussy” about who she puts out for. It is her prerogative to have preferences. We all do. It’s perfectly fine to not find certain men attractive. Next, your response repeatedly touches on how Jae “looks down” on various groups of men, and I just don’t get that at all from her letter. She includes that she’s “slim, attractive, and successful” to show that she has a lot to offer, but you read that as being full of herself.
Lastly — and I say this as a mixed race black woman who prefers to date outside my race — it is foolish to say that all women/men are the same regardless of color and that it therefore shouldn’t be an issue. We know it *shouldn’t* be an issue. But unfortunately, it is. That is the society we live in. Unfortunately, as Jae pointed out, yes, there is a stigma attached to interracial dating. That stigma gets even more complicated when you look at the relationships between different races. Asian women being stereotyped as delicate and submissive, black women being seen as masculine and dominant, etc. It’s real. It’s out there. There are studies out there about it. And unfortunately, I have the exact problem that Jae has. I am repeatedly fetishized as an “exotic” experiment, but no one will commit. And unfortunately, I’m just not attracted to black guys. So even though dating black guys would increase my chances, I cannot force myself to be attracted to anyone, as convenient as it may be.
In the end, you don’t offer a solution — you don’t explain why this may be; you just tell her to get over it, get back in her lane, date black guys like she’s apparently supposed to. Sadly, I think that this element of your response exemplifies the exact issue here.
Unfortunately for Jae, I have no advice, either. Good luck, girl.
Evan Marc Katz says
A perfect response. Critical of my inability to change reality and landing in the same exact place with nothing to offer.
Kelsey says
I offered plenty — perhaps a suggested change in perspective, perhaps even your reality? It is not my purpose here to offer solutions — this is your blog. If my response did not solve all of Jae’s problems, that is not my shortcoming. However, if a critical response to your words elicits nothing but a terse comeback, that’s a shortcoming of yours.
kimberlie Poyser says
If the writer is looking for interracial content geared towards black women. Go to beyond black and white.com. They have excellent information.
Deborrah Cooper says
Women are attracted to what they are attracted to – just like men. If she is not attracted to black males for WHATEVER REASON, that’s fine and she should not be put down for it. No more than white men who are only attracted to blondes, or red heads, or Asian women. Get out with that condemnation of her desires. If a woman is not attracted to a guy, she won’t want to touch him, kiss him, or have sex with him. So it is mandatory that a woman find her man physically, emotionally and mentally exciting.
Secondly, instead of ragging on her, why did you not offer constructive guidance? All you did was bitch at her which was NOT helping. She doesn’t like black men – so that option which you presented as the solution is NOT a solution at all. That isn’t what turns her on. Work with what IS dude, not what you wish it would be. Telling women to accept what they find tedious and boring or which does not stimulate them is trying to (as is always told to black women) to “settle” for what you want us to have, not what we want.
And for that I am throwing the bullshit flag.
Latoya says
I am a kind heart, beautiful black woman who knows her self worth. I am open to all races as long as you are respectful, mature, and value similar beliefs as I.
I will be honest I am not open to making the 1st approach but I am open to communication. Other races are not as open to date black woman in a way that black men are open to dating, marrying outside their race.
You may see outside races date black woman but not commit. Writing this makes me want to analyze the numbers to see what data interprets.
Robert says
I wonder if you have ever been in love?…….. Like really totally in love you cant think about anything but that person butterfly’s in your stomach you can’t really think at all anymore…….. When you need something an object doesn’t matter what it is ill leave that up to you but it’s important looking everywhere and you are already running late! Compare that to knowing you need that same thing the next day and you don’t know where you left it but you have 24hr’s time to find it this time. In witch of these situations are you more likely to find what you are looking for…………. Anyway ask Murphy. I could just have said you are really searching looking for love….. And maybe it’s old fashioned but I just don’t think it works that way no matter what race. Then those men you dated those who said you are great but don’t want a serious relation? Almost sure they wanted you between sheets. I think you do know why Jae they don’t want it they are afraid what their parents think their friends maybe even their employer. They didn’t have that feeling the butterfly’s when a men really falls in love he will die for her. Society taught us from the moment we are born that men don’t cry let alone show fear and certain emotions because you are a real man right not a sissy. Guess what we have more feelings then most females think. I personally don’t feel understood in general. Part of that is my own fault I can’t really express myself irl. But it has mostly to do with how we raise our children. So my advice is when you really feel something for a guy not just something the special something make him feel comfortable around you men do want a strong woman someone who will always be there for him. We don’t just cheat at least I don’t seriously mostly the relationship was a wreck already. And she might cheat as well but is just better in hiding it. almost every successful man has a strong woman or “wife” in his life. Will take me a while to stop thinking about what these ” higher standards ” are for you. Thing is I personally like no nonsense females telling you how it is straight away but believe me it scares most guys almost all….. I don’t believe that they want to rule over a woman I honestly think most men look at females as being equal. Thing is that guys can’t really talk about this when it doesn’t go to plan we can’t go to the police when the female is physically abusive. Family……. nope can’t talk to them and friends they will laugh at you at first so that’s no option either the first embarrassment. Lot’s of typing short make him feel wanted and trusted both ways of course. Wish you a happy life somehow…. I never reacted on something like this when I have it has to be long ago. Greets Robert. ( Sorry if there are grammar mistakes never been in an English speaking country.
Sarah says
Evan is cold blooded(Dave Chappelle voice). He answered this question with absolute savagery. My favorite line was” let me hold the mirror up to you”. He never holds anything back. When I came across this question, I was excited because I’m in the same situation as Jae. I’m a black female who predominately dates white men(they are the only ones who ask me out). However, this summer I am focused on developing a serious relationship with someone. So initially I thought Evan would provide a cure all solution to my dilemma. I have no trouble getting dates, yet I don’t have a boyfriend. After reading his answer, I realize I’m the problem. That really sucks!!! I need to figure out what changes I need to make in my life. However, I’m not sure where to start. I always thought I was just maintaining standards not being snobby. I don’t know what to do smh.
Evan Marc Katz says
Cure all solutions are not found in a single blog post. It takes a little more effort than that. Give me your email address and I’ll take care of you.
older hopefully wiser says
I’m not sure when this was published, but would like to weigh in. I understand Jae, at the same time having self reflected on multiple occasions I’ve had opportunities to ask myself why do I think or feel this way? I’m a black woman who has witnessed other black women and myself struggle one way or another in their relationships with black men. I’ve also noticed that it’s not uncommon for some black women (including myself) to idealize, elevate and romanticize white men based on (imo) images seen on T.V. There are some handsome black men on T.V. (more so now than when I was a little girl in the 70s– think JJ Evans and Freddie “boom boom” Washington). During the 70s and 80s black men were mostly portrayed as comical and having a certain prowess, but rarely seen as physically attractive, tender, intellectual and intelligent, considerate, playfully romantic, caring, kind, desiring sex but not preoccupied or obsessed, refined, classy, etc. There were maybe 2 black heart throbs I can think of…. Billy D. Williams (70s), Eddie Murphy, and Philip Michael Thomas (80s). Thank God for the 90s and beyond which experienced an increase in black actors who were not only handsome, but portrayed in a better light at times: Morris Chestnut, Denzel, Tyrese, Tae Diggs, Shemar Moor. Will Smith was on the cusp, 80s actor… handsome but his character portrayal leaned on comedy and prowess. Prior to the 90s, all of the traits women commonly desired were found in white men. I’m not complaining just explaining. I now realize I foolishly drew conclusions based upon fictitious characters (back in the day I had Italian fever based on characters played by Travolta, Pacino, Deniro because… I digress). But that’s what most people do which is why (again imo), black women are seen as so undesirable. We’ve frequently been portrayed as physically unattractive, but even when we’re attractive we’re mostly portrayed with REALLY BAD attitudes or some other flaw (drug addicts, hypersexualized video vixens at one point, prostitute) Also imo, Evan judges Jae rather harshly. She, like most people do and should, has standards and preferences. Additionally, she’s not the first nor the last woman to ask how to get a man to commit, but she did set qualifiers by asking how to get a white man to commit as opposed to a man or a black man as though there were some voodoo spell that could be cast to manipulate a white man into marrying her other than relying on love, kindness, devotion and to exhibit family and maternal leanings. Where I might agree with what Evan infers in his response, that Jae should look at, judge, and choose a man based on his character, personality, heart, mind, interests and similarity of life goals; di not look only at his exterior (handsomeness, skin color, hair texture, eye color etc.) Also make sure he’s not using you for fetish sex unless you’re into that and likewise you’re not objectifying him. But as someone previously mentioned people may prefer certain physical attributes and there’s no crime in that unless you make judgements about personality, character and so on based on physical attributes. Case in point blondes have more fun. Do they really? All of them? Don’t some red heads, brunettes, and raven haired people have fun? I could give more examples of how people translate physical traits into promises of good times or bad, but you get my point I hope.
La Miss says
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609091/first-evidence-that-online-dating-is-changing-the-nature-of-society/
Cathalei says
All the cry fest about “isn’t she entitled to her preferences” is meaningless. Evan hit the spot on it. When your preferences is clearly working against you, it is time to rethink them. It’s pure statistics, not a universal conspiracy to rag on you because of your demographics.
There was no “shame” involved in the answer. We are only “shamed” by being told that we cannot change the outer reality to fit our wants because we feel uncomfortable. There are plenty of those who get a partner for status reasons, like Asian women who go after European men for status and European men going after Asian women for fetish. Their selection criteria may not involve many things that would matter in the long run (how their partner treats them, values, habits etc.) but they are content that they found a partner according to their desires. They are not the ones who are seeking advice. Since she complains about how her preferences resulted in failure, it makes sense to reconsider them accordingly.
It may be easy to forget that, but preferences go both ways. There needs to be a mutual matching for a relationship to occur. Imagine a man who absolutely wants a blonde. There would be blondes who wants or do not want her. Imagine this man also refuses to date who is below a D-cup, who may have a couple of extra pounds, who is not tall/petite enough etc. Imagine if this man also has physical characteristics that make him excluded by certain women in his target group. What would you advise him? “Man, it’s your preferences; why are you shamed by others for it? Who are they to shame you?” yada yada may work well to make him feel better momentarily but it will not help with his dating woes.
The OP wants to have her cake and eat it. Unfortunately, her criteria is undermining her because what she wants includes a broad type (so it is not about being attracted, certain features may be found attractive but all groups may have it to various extents) but she also talks about “having high standards”. If she has a complete right to her preferences, the same goes to the men who don’t want the same thing as she does. When vast majority of your limited pool isn’t receptive to you at all, the most effective way to find a partner is to broaden your horizons. Yes, that might very well include the pesky black men but who cares? She is the one who is making the choice. If she wants to stay single rather than compromising of her stringent requirements, that’s her right. It’s not the fault of others. When what you want is not compatible with what your pool wants, you either move on to different pools or fit in what your pool wants. There is a glaring hypocrisy there. Her first exclusive requirement is race but she wants her dates to overlook her race. If she were content to date European men who dated her because she was black, she wouldn’t be complaining. If you see something as so big a fault that you exclude a sum total of all from your target group, why would you expect others to overlook what you perceive as a minus? Online dating sites are showing a similar trend, if a visible group of men exclude black women from their dating list; who are left? A considerable majority will be black men as Evan suggested, and if she rules them out; there might be a good number of Asian, Latino, Middle Eastern, Indian etc. men left. If she rules them out also, there are other factors that come into the equation. Income, education, tastes, habits, previous children etc. Since she claims to have high standards to presume she will eliminate quite a few men based on those too, how many men will be left?
Just because it’s okay to have preferences doesn’t mean people are supposed to fit every single criteria of it perfectly. No one owes a relationship or commitment to us just because they might fit our checklist of supposed perfection for us. If she finds black men (or any other men) repulsive just because a certain label attached regardless of their appearance, why should the men she chases not take it as a factor in dating, either in avoiding or approaching her because of it? Expecting others to get past one thing while it’s our primary exclusive criteria is hypocritical, as we tend to attract partners based on fitting criteria.
Finally, there is a difference between preference and automatic rule-out. If you rule out too many, you’ll be left with none.