The Most Important Quality Men Value in Women
- Dating, What Men Want
Do you remember what it’s like to be in an exciting new relationship?
You’ve got this electric chemistry and everything’s going swimmingly.
He calls you every day.
He introduces you to his friends.
He talks about making vacation plans in the future.
In only a few weeks together, you feel like this was meant to be…and your mind goes wild with the possibilities.
You can’t help yourself.
You think about him at work.
You text him on the way home from work.
You daydream about what life will be like when you’re married.
And then it ends. Abruptly. Without explanation.
The problem is that — in relationships with flawed humans and flawed communication — the truth is often really hard to find.
You’re blindsided. And you want answers. I don’t blame you.
I’ve been in the exact same position and I wanted answers, too.
The problem is, you can never get them from your ex.
That’s why I wrote, “Why He Disappeared.” As a male dating coach who specializes in helping women understand men, I have compiled all the answers for you.
Click here to get clarity and closure on all of those past relationships.
You’ve gone through the pain and confusion that comes with breaking up. Maybe you made peace with the past, maybe you haven’t.
But if you’re anything like me, you’re constantly seeking the truth.
The problem is that — in relationships with flawed humans and flawed communication — the truth is often really hard to find.
The good news is that, in this blog, you’re going to learn one of the main truths that women go their whole life without learning.
I first realized that this truth was a revelation after giving a speech to a group of 100 singles, aged 25-40.
My speaking engagements are always fun, with lots of laughter and crowd participation. But every night has its surprises. And this speech provided a revelation.
Despite the raucous laughter and the nodding heads, there was one time that you could hear a pin drop.
It was when I was talking about what men REALLY want out of women.
It’s different than what women want out of men.
You assume that because you value certain traits in men; men value the same thing in women.
In general, women want men to be leaders. They want someone tall, masculine, intelligent, and decisive. They want him to be a passionate captain of industry — a man who can hold a room with his charisma, tell a story that makes your sides split, and can bring home the bacon as well.
That alpha male is very attractive and most women are attracted to him.
The glitch is that this man is not looking for a woman who’s just like him.
And THAT’s the big blind spot for many intelligent, successful women.
You assume that because you value certain traits in men; men value the same thing in women.
NOT TRUE.
It’s not that intelligence, money, and leadership are unimportant to men; it’s that they place a distant second compared to the most important trait:
How you make him FEEL.
That’s right. It’s not your list of credentials that impress men — it’s how they feel about themselves when they’re with you.
So if your greatest strengths are your intellectual curiosity, your tenacity at work, and your ability to analyze and debate your stance on every issue under the sun, you’d definitely be the person he wants to HIRE.
But who does he want to date?
The woman who asks him about himself.
The woman who laughs at his jokes.
The woman who doesn’t give him a hard time about hanging out with his friends.
The woman who trusts him.
The woman who is up for anything on the weekends and everything in bed.
The woman whose default setting is happy, not stressed/angry/anxious.
Simply put: if he feels GOOD about hanging around with you, he’s going to want to hang around with you forever. But if you think that he’s going to be drawn to you for your ACCOMPLISHMENTS — your degree, your job, your home, your impressive hobbies — you’re really missing something fundamental to men.
The great thing is that this is something you can shift TODAY.
Just by understanding that men like to FEEL good — not emasculated, not second guessed, not browbeaten — you can become the ideal girlfriend instantly.
Imagine if a man were to become the ideal BOYFRIEND. What would he have to do?
Make plans in advance.
Pick up the check.
Call every day.
Leave his weekends open.
Talk openly about commitment, family, and future.
Simple stuff, huh? Yet most men fall short, don’t they? It’s because they either don’t KNOW how to be better boyfriends or they don’t CARE.
Just by understanding that men like to FEEL good… you can become the ideal girlfriend instantly.
I can’t say whether you care about being a better girlfriend, but now you’ve got no excuse. You KNOW what men want.
How good are you going to be at giving it?
I talk about this extensively in Why He Disappeared — how you can be smart, strong and successful and still be easygoing and nurturing.
It’s not a contradiction — no more than it’s a contradiction for a busy entrepreneur to be emotionally available or a charismatic alpha male to be a good listener.
However, you might notice that men who are consumed with their careers are not always available, and men who are charismatic often like to hear themselves talk.
I can’t make a guy into a better listener; but I can share subtle ways in which you can make men feel better when they’re around you.
Thanks for reading, as always. Can’t wait to show you a new path to love.
Deanna McNeil says
In the most wholesome of ways, I love you Evan. What a great post 🙂
Nancy says
I agree it is a great post.
As a young girl growing up in the 60-70s graduating from HS in early 80 I knew that I did not want to be with a man like my Dad. Why? He provided the paycheck but treated my mother like a second hand person. I believe this article hits on that. Who wants to be with someone that doesn’t respect you, takes you for granted, has bunches of double standards. In other words, how you feel with them is like a pile of crap. Come forth woman’s liberation.
The lesson here is both men and woman desire to be with someone that values them. When the basic needs are meet what is left is how the person we are with makes us feel. In today’s world women are taking care of their basic needs by earning a living for themselves so the playing field is being leveled, they no longer need a man to provide the basic needs. And, women are no longer staying in relationships where all those things that Evan wrote aren’t happening for them because they are very important for any relationship to work. Why so many divorces and so many initiated by woman? You get the picture. Men want the good feelings but don’t want to give them hence Evan’s comment they really don’t care for a successful woman because it doesn’t gain them what they want. Put the shoe on her foot, she has worked as hard as him to provide security for herself, and now her “man” treats her successes as irrelevant. A man would not stand for such disrespect. Again, a woman has a need for all the same things that a man once the basic needs necessities are taken care. Any relationship where the man or the woman chooses to not understand the things Evan has written will die and end. So … as a woman, learn how to do the things Evan has written and if you are not getting them in return, quietly slip away, no need to beg or nag for what you need as you will not be heard, just slip away and be thankful you got away before the misery started.
In the end both women and men desire the same thing, to be with someone that makes them feel good. Why so many women in unhappy marriages where the man provides the $$$ for the necessities? Is $$$ enough or is there more to it? We all know there is more to it so read up on Evan’s list and practice it and if you are getting the same in return – find the door you will be a happier person.
Teri says
Wow Nancy. Exactly. Make him feel good. But let her do all the housework, forget to call, ignore her accomplishments.
I am an artist. I never understood why I never dated artists as a young woman. Not one asked me out. I think I know why now. I am better than they were and they knew it. So without even trying, I made them feel bad about themselves.
Another guy, recently, couldn’t feel good around me because, get this, other men gawked at me when we were out.
So, in making them feel good maybe we’d be trying too hard with some of them, and that’s not appealing either.
But I will think about this article, as I do like Evan’s work.
SALWA says
Thnk u dear
Cathalei says
It’s not about the $$$ you earn, but the value you give to your time together. No one wants to be taken for granted, that’s why boundaries should be there. Others won’t know what we want all the time so it is our job to express it. And honestly, if you think you’re better than someone in every aspect, don’t date them. It will lead you taking them for granted and their flaws will become like a mountain out of molehill. Evan for example never says that he “married down”. He said many times his wife is better than him in many ways and complements him. That’s what matters in a relationship, not your degrees or title of the business you own. Your prospective partner, male or female, can appreciate your accomplishments but ultimately they benefit only you. Your partner doesn’t stand to gain anything from them. They care about your ability to hold a good conversation, to listen to them, to your sense of humor, your manner of talking. The former are irrelevant to how you make them feel. It doesn’t mean they want a rag doll (stay away from those) but they care about the interaction with you.
Relationships are about vulnerability. I’m an Aspie & my mother used to constantly dissect my speaking and bodily mannerisms when in public. I usually felt like an insect under a microscope when I was with her in public. While we are in peaceful terms, I could never be comfortable being vulnerable with her waiting for her next lines of criticism. If they feel like they’re employee in a job interview rather than on a date, they can not be open with you and you can never connect with them in a meaningful way. It’s really common sense. “People can forget what you say or what you do but they never forget how you make them feel.” Let them open up to you, guys and gals.
Lily says
Lol at number 1. But yea great post.
I think this concept is understood well in other (mainly non western) cultures where women make sure they have the more ‘homely’ qualities in order for a man to be interested. It is funny that women find this such a revelation.
JoBlo says
“Always up for anything on the weekend, up for everything in bed?”
My last boyfriend was into painful anal sex. For those of you who have researched this, who are, as sex/love advice columnist Dan Savage says, GGG (good, giving, and game), one key thing for a beginner is to START SLOW. This guy was not into starting slow. Eventually, I lost my willingness to try and he got no more of my butt for the next year (we’ve split up, surprise).
That’s a digression. My point is: who WOULDN’T want to spend time with someone who always says yes to whatever they want? Oh, wait, it’s not enough to just say yes – you have to actually, convincingly, be totally cool with WHATEVER YOUR PARTNER WANTS. Evan, you are saying for women to give up on the stupid, misguided hopes we were raised with that we could ever be an actual equal partner. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying that it’s what you’re saying.
Elly D says
I do agree with you. You can’t put up with anything, everywhere just because he wants it. Especially, if that’s what you don’t want.
I don’t agree with “being forced” to do things for him when you’re not comfortable in the first place. You have to actually enjoy it so that he can enjoy it too.
If you don’t, then what’s the point?
Mi says
Nowhere does it say you have to agree to things you don’t want to do – the point is not to be a slave, but to compromise, and that goes for both partners.
In my point of view, your ex should have been more considerating, and you are a rockstar for trying to compromise on such a painful subject. It shows you are willing to go the extra mile, just shame he wasn’t a better guy.
Detha says
Great post! And as usual very enlightening.
Steve says
I think this concept is understood well in other (mainly non western) cultures where women make sure they have the more ‘homely’ qualities in order for a man to be interested. It is funny that women find this such a revelation.
Not really considering that the book AND movie “He Is Just Not That Into You” did so well.
hunter says
Emasculate, second guess, browbeat, yes, you tell a room full of husband less women to stop doing that, the room will quiet down to hear a pin drop.
Ruby says
JoBlo #3
I can’t imagine anyone advising someone to stick it out with a selfish jerk, which is how I’d describe a man who forces his girlfriend to do something sexually without considering her needs first. Good thing you have moved on.
Selena says
Re: #3
I stopped being one of those girls who was up for anything (almost) in bed when I dated an unfortunate short string of “special needs” men. Each of whom was very selfish when it came to reciprocation. Enough. Escort services provide women who are “up for anything”. I want a mutually satisfying, and loving sexual relationship.
Karl R says
JoBlo said: (#3)
“My point is: who WOULDN’T want to spend time with someone who always says yes to whatever they want? […] Evan, you are saying for women to give up on the stupid, misguided hopes we were raised with that we could ever be an actual equal partner.”
You’re focusing on the wrong point.
It’s nice that my girlfriend is willing to try new things in bed. And she’s willing to give things a genuine try before deciding whether or not she likes them. If she decides she doesn’t enjoy something, that’s perfectly fine with me.
But what’s vastly more important is her attitude when I want to spend a couple hours playing online computer games or spend an afternoon at a friend’s house playing tabletop roleplaying games. She happy that I’m taking some time for myself away from work. She’s happy that I’m spending time with friends. She doesn’t believe my geeky hobbies are some embarassing secret.
My girlfriend is a basically happy person. When she’s not happy, she doesn’t vent her frustrations by tearing my head off. When she has felt truly miserable, I have felt bad for her, but I didn’t end up feeling bad because of her.
Evan’s main point is that men want to feel good. It’s possible to feel good even if my girlfriend doesn’t enjoy absolutely every sex act that I enjoy. It’s nearly impossible to feel good if she’s going on a fault-finding tour through my life (as an ex-girlfriend did). That should give you a good idea of the relative importance of those two details.
Selena said: (#8)
“I dated an unfortunate short string of ‘special needs’ men. Each of whom was very selfish when it came to reciprocation.”
It sounds like you were dating rather lousy boyfriends (or completely incompatible ones). You don’t want to keep those.
If a woman is a lousy girlfriend, I make no effort to be a good boyfriend. I’m not going to discuss commitment and future plans. I’m not going to leave my weekends open. I’m not going to call every day.
You don’t need to apply these equally to every man you date. Just the ones you want to keep.
KS says
Sounds like if you should just break up with her instead of be a shitty boyfriend in return.
starthrower68 says
Hehe, and the guy who e-mailed me who also wanted a dominant woman was a bit puzzled as to why I wasn’t interested.
Selena says
@Karl #9
They never made it to being boyfriends because they were lousy (and lazy) in bed.
Selena says
@Starthrower
A dominant woman with accoutrements? I think I dated him. 😛
Evan Marc Katz says
I can only imagine what you’d say, Selena, if you read that you “never made it” to being a girlfriend because you were “lousy and lazy in bed”. Perhaps you would feel that the man was being superficial or unrealistically demanding. Perhaps you would feel that he should have been patient with you and given you the chance to become better in bed. Sorry, but I just can’t let such double standards slide on here.
My wife told a story at a party last night of a charity event that she attended, at which a hot young doctor, straight out of Grey’s Anatomy central casting, spoke about donating his time to perform surgery on children in Africa. The room, filled with women and gay men, collectively swooned. Pretty soon, there was an humorous impromptu bidding war from different tables to get the hot doc to sit down with them. Seating rights were sold for $1000 to a particularly aggressive and flirtatious group of fortysomething women, all of whom were certainly clamoring to get close to this doctor for his insights about malaria. Right.
If a bidding war for a beautiful woman doctor had brokeen out at a similar function attended by men, would this not have been a national news story, further enflamed by the likes of Jezebel and other feminist blogs? I find it hard to think otherwise.
Frankly, I don’t have a problem with any of this kind of stuff – not auctions for hot people, or private Powerpoint presentations of sexual conquests.
I have a huge problem with hypocrisy, however.
Didn’t meant to single you out, Selena. This was just a leaping-off point in seeing that we will often judge other people (on looks, sexual prowess, etc) in a way that we would never want to be judged ourselves.
Emma says
But don’t men feel good when they are with an accomplished woman?
rick says
heck yeah i sure do .
Selena says
Evan,
Perhaps more detail is needed without getting into somewhat embarrasing specifics. First of all, I don’t consider someone my ‘boyfriend’ until “I love you’s” have been exchanged. Until then it’s “dating”. Having sex does not automatically make someone my boyfriend – it is though a way of getting to know if we are compatible in that area. If we are not, then the relationship will not progress to the bf/gf stage. Sex, for me, is what differentiates a romantic relationship from a platonic friendship.
When I speak of “special needs”, selfish, lousy or lazy what I’m talking about is a few men I dated (and had sex with) who had a definite preference for particular practices that did nothing for me. (And I’m not talking anything mainstream like oral.) It would become clear that these men needed these things to be fullfilled sexually. I was a good sport. I went along. But the novelty wore off pretty quickly. Even so, I can be a generous lover, doing things that don’t turn me on IF my lover is generous in return. In the case with these men they weren’t too interested in reciprocation, in doing the things I needed (which were mainstream). They wanted what they wanted and that was it. Which is why the relationships never became more than casual short term ones.
This is hypocrisy? A double standard? Maybe they did think I was lousy and lazy in bed because I didn’t appreciate their…uh…fetishes? So? We were incompatible in that area that’s all.
When you start to feel the guy should leave money on the dresser, it’s time to move on. Now where did I put that whip? 😉
Steve says
I hereby pronounce this the thread of nonsequitors. All Evan wrote was that men like the company of women that make them feel good. From there we moved on to anal sex, domination and Grey’s Anatomy ( a truly horrible show, even for a soap opera ).
Maureen says
Best comment of all! Keep it simple ladies…we know we like to feel good around the man we adore/like/love, so do men. Period.
Andrea says
Yes, very true. I’ve noticed that a lot of advice given in the blogs is often taken to the level of extreme hyperbole by the commenters.
So being easygoing with your boyfriend is equated with letting your boyfriend force you into orgies, letting a man talk about an ex is disrespectful to you b/c he clearly is not over her and you should dump him, and compromising is equated with dating unemployed losers who treat you like a doormat and cheat on you.
It’s interesting how often the advice is not taken in the spirit in which it is given.
You aren’t being a doormat by at least being open to having a discussion with someone about something that they might like to try-that could be sex, food, travel, etc. You aren’t getting played if you don’t expect someone to check in with you every hour about who he is spending time with and want to read all emails, texts, etc. that a man sends out.
It’s also interesting how anecdotal evidence (“well no one has ever complained to ME”) is often the rebuttal to the advice. Just because you’re fortunate enough to get no complaints doesn’t mean that the approach is right, or that it will work for everyone.
I don’t really see how anyone could argue that being an easy-going, open-minded (not a doormat as is often claimed whenever this advice is given) partner/mate is somehow a bad thing. It takes so much time to follow someone around and poke around in emails and phones. It takes a lot of emotional and mental energy to be angry, jealous, and insecure.
Of course, all of this goes out the window if the person in question is hot enough, which I suspect is why so many people are convinced that their approach is what will work for everyone. Clearly, a lot of people get to be perfectly awful and always have someone willing to put up with their awfulness-but no one ever said that the world of dating, relationships, and marriage was a meritocracy.
Denise says
#3
:(, it sounds like this wasn’t a very pleasant experience for you in and outside of the bedroom. I know how you feel, and I’m sure we all have circumstances in our lives like this. These incidents can cause anger–which is an insidious emotion that comes from when we don’t have our needs met or we are hurt–sounds like both might have been present here.
The key is to address the anger in a productive way. The best way to do that is to recognize that ulitimately we DID agree to do something. Unless the other person tied us up or did some other extreme act to us, we chose out our own free will to make that decision–and perhaps made that same decision multiple times. The NEXT, and most important step, is to LEARN from what happened. This is what Selena mentions, she strengthened her boundary in regard to what she was willing or not willing to accept in her relationships and life.
Finally, what qualities about this man did not appeal to you? What signs were that that this man was who he was, in and out of the bedroom? Learn from these, and next time this will help to make a better choice of a man to date.
Then move on in life, do not SUFFER over things you have no control over (which is the past in this case).
who WOULDN’T want to spend time with someone who always says yes to whatever they want? Oh, wait, it’s not enough to just say yes — you have to actually, convincingly, be totally cool with WHATEVER YOUR PARTNER WANTS.
PLENTY of people don’t want this and I can also guarantee that a mature man of high character definitely DOESN’T want this either.
Selena says
LOL Steve #16
It’s just the phrase “be up for everything in bed” leaves ALOT of room for interpretation. 🙂
Steve says
Andrea 17
Yes, very true. I’ve noticed that a lot of advice given in the blogs is often taken to the level of extreme hyperbole by the commenters.
It happens on web boards too. People don’t comment on what the original poster wrote, they use it as a trigger to go off on something they want to talk about.
Steve says
Emma 14
But don’t men feel good when they are with an accomplished woman?
Not necessarily, at least not this man. I enjoy the company of date when she is physically attractive, is easy to talk to, interesting to talk to and easy to joke with. I couldn’t care less about her resume. Like Evan wrote, what women want in men isn’t necessarily what men want in women. Surprise, the way women view the world isn’t the world, it is their view of the world.
tommy says
true. I could care less about her accomplishments. she COULD be VERY smart…
is she smart enough to be fit and healthy? is she smart enough to understand the importance of beauty to a man? is she smart enough to understand most men – with thier shit together – want a beautiful, fit woman by Our sides?
Well then, the rest is an afterthought! be pretty. be nice. be loyal. keep your man. easy.
Cathalei says
Beauty should be seen from the start. this is likely to be understood as being like a gaping fish which is not the case. It’s about the comfort and excitement you get.
Karl R says
Emma asked: (#14)
“But don’t men feel good when they are with an accomplished woman?”
Two or three years ago I dated a very accomplished woman. She was in her mid 30s, a MD, a researcher and an instructor at a prestigious medical school. She’s one of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met (for example, she entered college at the age of 16).
In addition, she’s fit, attractive, outgoing, and a wonderful person in general. She’s even a very good dancer.
But her life/work balance is completely skewed towards work, and most of her remaining time is tied up with other commitments. If I left her a message, I might hear back from her in a few days. I quickly felt like dating was an afterthought in her life.
So I didn’t feel good. I felt like I was an afterthought to her. I left that relationship with no regrets.
She’s a wonderful woman, but a lousy girlfriend.
If I have to decide between an average relationship with an amazing woman or an amazing relationship with an average woman, I’ll go with the amazing relationship.
Evan Marc Katz says
Thanks, Karl. It’s like I don’t even have to explain myself, because you’ll do it for me.
jennyana says
Thanks Evan for putting this post up. I also agree with what Karl just said: I’d rather have an amazing relationship with an average man than an average relationship with an amazing man.
Ms V says
Karl R…. Thanks for the insight. I’m early 30s and I own a business. I always return calls, texts, emails etc per Evan’s advice to mirror a guy. I try to keep my schedule flexible to make time. But, the reality is being a business owner is a turn off for most guys.
Denise says
#25 Ms. V
Sounds like we’re coming back to the argument that men don’t like accomplished, successful women, i.e. I own my own business, I’m CEO of a large company, I’m an Olympic athlete. I sincerely do NOT believe that is the case for a mature man of high character.
Sometimes we just haven’t met the man who is a good match for us, sometimes we do things consciously and/or unconsciously to push a man away. It’s a matter of figuring that out for ourselves, to know that we are presenting our best selves–to focus on the things we can control and then have faith that the love vibes (for ourselves and others) that we’re sending out will come right back at us when it’s our time.
It might also be helpful to reread Evan’s Q & A which started this train of posts. He says nothing about a woman’s looks or career or anything like that…he talks about how she makes him feel. That has nothing to do with her being a CEO, athlete or business owner.
Karl R says
Ms V said: (#25)
“But, the reality is being a business owner is a turn off for most guys.”
You’re completely wrong.
Being a business owner is nearly irrelevant to most men. It’s definitely less relevant than your cup size (and I’ve dated women from A to I).
I remember going on a date with a business onwer. While on that date, I didn’t feel like a guy on a date with an attractive woman. I felt like a job applicant being interviewed for a position at her company. And feeling like an interviewee … that was a turn-off.
It’s like the men who believe that women are turned off by men who are “too nice”. The women are turned off, but “nice” isn’t the problem. And as long as you’re convinced that being a business owner is the problem, you will continue to ignore any genuine turn offs.
Harriet Bond says
Great to see a blog written by a man for women!!! Will be reading this one lots and directing my friends and female PI clients to it too!
Joe says
Karl is right (in #27). We don’t care if you own a business, are a CEO, or are an Olympic athlete. We do care how you make us feel when we’re with you.
Damian says
I will say that I think this post makes great sense. Many of the comments that ensued don’t seem to be, however, from people who actually understood the point.
I will say that I prefer being with a woman who I feel is my “equal” — insomuch as she is on my level of intelligence, career-minded (not a high school dropout working at McDonald’s), common interests, etc. — but then again, total “equality” is a little bit impossible if we’re being technical. Women and men definitely think differently. We can never be “equals” in the sense that we don’t really seem to want the same things… not everything. I will concede that it makes sense that I want someone who will make me feel good about myself and my accomplishments. The opposite will make me go away. If you want to drive your man out the door, make him feel like he’s no longer king of your castle. It’s very easy for women (and men) to do/say things that they interpret differently from the way they are received — purely based on the sexes and how our brains work. If you call me every half hour to “check up” on me (because you miss me that much, for example), I’m likely to interpret that as a) clingy b) jealous or c) distrusting. If you are exhibiting either combination of those three traits in copious amounts (half hour check-ins is rather much), you are not going to come across as the best partner, even if your interpretation is that it’s a display of affection, of just how much you want me. If you are too clingy, it feels like we’re dating a pet that we have to constantly make sure is okay. If you are too jealous, we’re worried you’re going to melt down and accuse of of things we should at least get to do if we’re already guilty of them. And if you’re too distrusting, well… you have issues we can’t overcome because you don’t trust us, despite not having done anything (yet) to lose it. If your last boyfriend, or worse, last five boyfriends all cheated on you, I can feel bad for you, but don’t blame me for their mistakes — and don’t expect/anticipate it from me either. I’m not them.
That being said, we’re actually pretty easy to please, for the most part. We honestly don’t want to be talked down to or berated over the littlest of things. We wouldn’t mind a little freedom now and then to hang out with friends without you thinking we’re cheating on you or that we’re jerks because we don’t want to spend ever minute of every day with you. We don’t want to hear nagging or too much emotional baggage. We’re not women. We’re men. If you can’t give in to our quirky, tech-obsessed, sports-loving, illogical, horny, possibly-perverted, sexist ways, you’re fighting an unwinable battle. Just like we don’t expect to find a woman who won’t be an emotional rollercoaster at least some of the time, also illogical, sometimes jealous, likely less horny. We can’t both be right. The point is that unless you are willing to let us be men, you will probably scare us away at some point, especially because we’re unlikely to talk about it because we don’t talk about stuff like that. If you are willing to let us be men, we’ll adore you for it and probably won’t even be able to verbalize why. You’ll get more of what you want by letting us have what we want. But, unfortunately, it probably has to start with you because — well, we’re men!
Denise says
Great points Damian…
I’d love to hear about what you do as a man in an ‘equal’ relationship to meet the women’s instinctual feminine needs?
Damian says
What — me? I’m a man! I don’t do anything… although that could also explain why I’m single! LOL
But, seriously… I don’t know if I can specifically put my finger on things I do or don’t do to meet a woman’s needs. I’m sure there are many ways in which I could improve. I would say that something I consciously do is try to listen without reacting. My normal tendency is to try to fix things or react to what’s being said, but I’ve noticed that women tend to like to just vent more than anything and are just happy that you’re there for them when they need to do it. They often don’t want or need you to react, or to attempt to “solve” anything, which is counter-intuitive, at least for me — because I tend to think that if you’re complaining about something, it’s for the sake of seeking change. I figure, if you’re complaining about it to me, you must want my help fixing it. But that’s not always true. Weird. Illogical. Roll-my-eyes-boring! You mean you’re complaining just for the sake of hearing yourself complain about it — and it makes you happier because you can drag me along for the ride — because misery loves company? There are plenty of times where I don’t want to hear it, but that’s why it’s a compromise. Some of the stuff you’ll hear is just utter nonsense (from a man’s perspective) — but it could be the most important thing in her life right at that point, so I just let her have her moment with it. I’m sure there’s plenty of crap she chooses to put up with that she thinks is equally nonsense or boring. It’s usually well worth it to just shut up and listen, acknowledge the vent from time to time, and seem genuinely interested/affected. Something I’ve realized is that, while men and women both want what matters to them to matter to others… I’ve noticed that women, in general, seem to need validation all the freakin’ time.
Vanessa says
Damien lol! You are a man!! You hit it on point of how to understand men- Alpha men :))
Denise says
🙂 Damian, ‘just a man’
I give you a lot of credit and am impressed for recognizing one of a women’s needs (listening) and for wanting to learn more and do better.
If a woman needs validation all the freakin’ time, she has confidence/maturity issues. BTW, this neediness is not only reserved for women, it’s just your view. Plenty of men out there that are super needy as well. THAT is tiresome.
I think if you keep this equation in mind, it might help ‘explain’ women. (We are much more complex then men, this is true. We’re also more ‘capable’ in more ways then men. Men and women each fill an important role.)
Femininity (passion for themselves, their man and life) = Obtaining men’s resources (listening, labor, humor, affection, attention, money) + Purpose greater than self
So you’re listening DOES mean a lot in regard to having us feeling feminine and therefore passionate. Keep in mind though, that none of these things come at the expense of your boundary. So listening endlessly to someone dump their problems and negative energy on you is well beyond the ‘call of duty’.
Gem says
“If you can’t give in to our quirky, tech-obsessed, sports-loving, illogical, horny, possibly-perverted, sexist ways, you’re fighting an unwinable battle.”
Ah, men…..I love them all!! 😉 So true, Damian.
Men and women ARE, indeed, wired differently. If we can start with *acceptance* of our partner and their unique differences — we’re 2/3 the way to success, right there.
Denise says
#34 Gem
Well said and couldn’t agree more!
Regina says
My boyfriend of one year says that I make him feel loved, cherished, adored, protected, and accepted for who he is. that I’m the best girlfriend that he’s ever had. He also stated that he loves me, is in love with me, I’m a wonderful girlfriend, we have a high degree of compatibility, and that he doesn’t want to date anyone else.
However, when I asked him – after one year of dating – if he felt that marriage was in our future (in the past, he would tell me that although we are not ready for marriage yet, we are dating with that goal sometime in the future), he said he was not sure if he wanted to marry me. When I asked him why this was his response:
“I know that it’s wrong to compare, but I don’t feel the same degree of intensity for you that I felt for my last girlfriend. I know that was an unhealthy realtionship but I do not feel the level of intensity that I felt for my ex-girlfriend. Now, I don’t need to feel that same level of intensity because that was unhealthy, and I do feel a certain amount of intensity and passion for you, but I am not sure that I feel a high enough degree of it in order to want to marry you.”
You see, he feel head over heals in love with a woman who did not love him, but would criticize him and tell him that he was too weak, too short, etc. When she dumped him after 8 months of dating, idealizing her, he continued to pursue her. trying to change himself in order to please her and get her to love him back. When he started to back off, she would encourage him by acting as though she wanted him back, and the cycle would begin again. As a result, there was a level of intensity that he felt from that experience and he now uses that -to a certain degree – to determine the degree of his love for me.
He said that intuitively, he felt that our relationship would be sustainable over the long haul, and that even if he would have ended up with the ex-girlfriend, there were red flags that he overlooked, and in the long run it would not have lasted.
The lesson that I’ve learned is that it doesn’t matter how wonderful you make the man feel, or if you have a high degree of compatibility – what matters is how passionate/intense their feelings are towards you.
P.S. I downgraded the relationship to friendship status, in order to make the transition from lovers to friends, we are taking some time apart. AND he is going to counseling to try and figure out and resolve his issues.
Helen says
Regina 36, thank God for your last paragraph. All the while I was reading what you wrote, I kept thinking: “Break up with this fool! He doesn’t deserve you!” And it sounds as though that is what you have done. Smart woman. If he doesn’t have the ability to learn from past mistakes, and if you are as kind and easygoing as he says you are, then you deserve a better relationship.
Don’t just sit there waiting for him to finish counseling. Go out and have great times with other men.
Denise says
#36 Regina
WOW, I can’t believe this man was intuitive and thoughtful enough to express all of this to you! I’m impressed…
Things didn’t work out the way you wanted; it sounds like things he need to work through. It sounds like he’s a bit immature not understanding the difference between negative energy/drama and a relationship where that doesn’t exist. Good for him for getting professional help to work through that.
It also reminds me of Evan talking about the experience with his wife, wondering if she was the one he wanted to marry given the differences they had and that she may not have been his ‘ideal’. Ultimately, she made him feel good, was mature, grounded and centered, and eventually won his heart–he knew he would not be able to find someone who treated him better or made him feel better (hope I paraphrased my understanding correctly!). It took Evan some time, perhaps some maturing, but he got there.
Not saying that will happen here, but that’s what I thought of when I was reading your post.
Denise says
#37 Helen
I think it’s better to be sympathetic to other humans as they travel their path in life. Most times, someone else’s path is not our path. It’s so easy to dismiss people. I give this man a lot of credit.
Chivon says
Thanks for this post, Evan. I’ve always wondered why i couldn’t attract a guy and could never pinpoint the difference between me and my happily attached girlfriends. Your post really cleared this up for me…’cause I now realise my girlfriends are fully capable of being supportive to their man and also following a man’s lead. Thus far, I’ve been pretty negative towards men, and I am guilty harbouring this hurtful and ultimately self-defeating belief that all men who are less than perfect are ‘losers’..not working out for me so far.
But now that my eyes are open to what men really want from a woman, I’m ready to give it a shot and see where this paradigm shift takes me. Thank you so much Evan! (I’m 25 and have never been in love before)
Jenn says
I don’t disagree with a lot of the article, but it seems to me that the author has little understanding of what women might want from men. Women want alpha males who pick up the tab all the time…etc…all stereotypes.
Maybe very young women (up to age 25) fit the stereotype- when they’re learning about what life is all about.. but really? We all want alpha men with strong jaws and high testosterone levels? lol…
IMO men and women want a lot of the same things- we ALL want to be with someone who makes us feel good. Maybe I’m an anomaly amongst women, but …how I feel around the guy is paramount to me. No, I don’t either want to be criticized, judged, second guessed, etc… I want to be around someone I feel okay with. That I feel good around.
That’s pretty much it. It’s hard for me to imagine feeling good around an alpha male that I dont’connect with.. one whose company I don’t feel comfortable in.. etc. I don’t like passiivity particularly but nor do I like alpha dominant behaviour- it disconcerts me. I have a lot of male friends who I have a little or a lot in common with- and sure that’s more of a non-issue with platonic friends. But with a partner.. bottom line is I want to feel good in their company. Not poked, prodded, or whatever.. just okay to be.
Retro Man says
Evan you have done a great job in explaining something that is unexplainable in the world we now live in. It is no secret that men and women are very different but even so their personalities, qualities and charectaristics are a perfect fit. Women are the perfect compliment to a man meaning they naturally possess many of the qualities and abilities that a man lacks.
So in this perfect almost symbiotic relationship we have why do we get it so wrong? It’s because the female has been forced to take on the role of the male in our society. Some of it is the fault of men, some is the fault of woman and some is simply the need to survive in the crazy society that we have made for ourselves.
Men had started taking advantage of their dominant role by treating women as if their only value was in cooking, cleaning and sex. Acting like masters of the universe and treating women as second class citizens. Women on the other hand started to realize that they had power too. They were extremely intelligent and they also had something men really wanted and desired so they began exploiting men on both fronts. Then society kicked in making things worse through both media and economic conditions. Women’s lib turned into women’s equality turned into women are the same as men.
So where are we now? We find ourselves stuck in a society where there is NO distinction between women and men. The qualities that men lack are no longer filled in and the qualities women lack are no longer cared for.
As far as this article goes here is how I see things. Ladies, Evan is 100% correct when he says it is about how you make a man “FEEL”. I know some woman might be insulted by this because they think why should it be about him, what about my needs. However, the fact is that if you make a man feel great about you and his relationship with you then he will be the best man he can possibly be. The best husband or boyfriend he can possibly be. It’s like a racehorse that has been fed well, trained well and completely taken care of. Those are the horses that rise to the occasion and win. Men are the same way.
With that being said, in order to make someone feel good you have to have deep respect for that person first. If you are in a marriage or a relationship with a man that you do not have deep love and respect for then you need to fix it or move on. Why do I say this so strongly? Because you need to be in the position to WANT to make your mate feel good. if you do not have the ability to make your man “feel” good about himself and about his relationship with you then he will never love you in the proper way. He will never give you what you need in return as a woman.
Even though personally I’m not very old my parents grew up in the 50’s. In those days though things were far from perfect, men were men and women were women. Ladies got treated like ladies. If some tragedy were to strike men literally gave up their lives to save a woman. They protected them, they opened doors for them, they ran to their defense if they needed help. Men viewed women as beautiful and precious. On the other hand women took care of their men and kept them happy and made them “feel” wonderful. They stood by their mans side making him feel like he had their wife’s deep respect.
Some women and some men will tell you its better now, but I for one don’t believe them.
jay says
WOW! those were some simply extraordinary comments! i actually didnt want them to end and way to go Evan! its so worth it being online when i come across simple master pieces that make it all worth while the read. Karl R and Retro man, were such interesting reads!
Ana Serene says
RetroMan says it extremely well. However, just one thing. You say “the fact is that if you make a man feel great about you and his relationship with you then he will be the best man he can possibly be.” This is far from a matter of fact statement. Many, many, many good women are good girlfriends and wives but instead of being good boyfriends and husbands in return, they fall way short, taking their women for granted. Seen it and experienced it countless times. It’s a problem the world over.
Dcroix says
I am a man, was doing a research on other things and was lured into this webpage. I can only comment one thing though. The author is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
havva says
well, I went through all the comments by readers…..here is what I say,…..I got married in 2007 to someone who thought he loved me…well our marriage was an arrange one, but we knew each other, as he is my second cousin as well…..so when I see the traits a woman should have to keep a man as per the blog, I have them all, more over i couldn’t pursue my education through masters, i had to leave my job so to give more time to my kids and husband….i am loving and caring….when he is home, i try to spend every single second of my minutes with him, and i do all of this because i truly love him and that i want to be him…..but what i get in return is the opposite…….when it comes to spending time together….he is not there, he prefers spending time overseas with his girlfriend who he is with for more than 4 years now when i was pregnant with our second child……so i don’t understand that what is there that i am lacking……i to be honest don’t believe in any of the crap said above in the blog….if it was for being nice, understanding….and everything possible….i should have been the loved wife, and he should have been thankful for me being in his life as mother of his two kids……which i am not
jesse says
Most men alpha beta whatever seem to want you to have a college degree and a job at the minimum. The only thing they fear more than a fat girl is a poor one. Poor = gold digger.
Lisa says
I’m really happy that I found this blog. I was blindsided when my husband of 10 years left me for his pregnant assistant and the only complaint he shared with me was that I didn’t praise him enough and build him up. So I learned this lesson too late. So I now make sure to praise the guys I am with and dote on them. I am attractive, great in the kitchen and in bed. I own a business that does not require a lot of my time so I can totally put my man’s needs first. But I rarely get asked out and my relationships haven’t lasted more than 6 months. They never end badly. The guys are “just not that in to me” and I can’t figure out why. I’ve even vacationed as friends afterwards with two so it’s not that I’m unlikable so I just don’t get it. The worst was when I spent almost $800 getting ready for a dinner date with someone who I thought was a great guy and I had known for about a year professionally and he never showed up. So apparently making your guy feel special and providing for his needs is not the whole picture….
JennLee says
Lisa, i feel bad for you. You seem like a good catch. It is also good that you do realize that men need praise. You are right though, that’s not the whole story. It’s actually part of one of the things that Evan said men need from us in order to fall in love with us. The two things are that a man wants to like what he sees. Then, more importantly, he wants a woman that makes him feel good when he is around her. That can be many things. He may feel good from praise. He may feel good if you cuddle with him. He may feel good if you take a genuine interest in what interests him. He may feel good when you make him something very good to eat, and bring him something to drink.
I know many women who think they have to ration these things with a man. The thinking is that if he gets too much of it, he won’t try to please her. I think this is false reasoning. I think it also leads to too much rationing which will spell doom for the relationship. I think we should just pamper him, spoil him, and in general make him feel as good as we can. Then, if he gets lazy, simply bring it up using I messages. I don’t feel appreciated. I don’t feel like a priority. Not, “You don’t appreciate me.” I think most good men will take a few days and do a self survey, when she says she doesn’t feel appreciated. He might just come to you and ask what will make you feel appreciated. If he does, tell him. If he loves you enough to ask, then just tell him.
Karmic Equation says
I agree with most of what you say, except this “I think we should just pamper him, spoil him, and in general make him feel as good as we can.”
I would qualify that to give as much as you can without feeling resentful. And only give whatever you feel like giving as a “gift”, which means you should NOT “expect” tit-for-tat. Don’t keep score on the “giving”.
Keep score on whether or not he treats you well (and not reciprocating a “gift” does NOT count as treating you badly). Is he honest with you? Does he treat you with kindness? Does he try to be tactful when he delivers news he knows you won’t like? Does he try to compromise with you instead of always demanding his own way? Is he reliable (says what he does, does what he says)?
Most women keep the wrong score, imo. Men are NOT women with penises. They value different actions in their women than women value in men. Women need to understand equivalency when comparing his actions with hers. Not “exact”. It’s a whole lot easier to understand men when you understand equivalency between men’s values and women’s values.
JennLee says
I agree with you. That’s what I was saying. Instead of treating men like show dogs, and making him jump through hoops, instead of acting as if if he won’t treat you right, instead of trying to manipulate him into treating you right, just treat him the best you can. If he does not treat you well in return, bring it to his attention. If he refuses to treat you well, move on to somebody who will. I think your are playing a losing game if you think your best strategy is to ration love, approval, praise, affection, sex, etc…. I think it will negatively affect your relationship.
The bright spot is that by doing so, you may make yourself irreplaceable in his life. He might not realize that right away, but if he loses you, and then doesn’t have that in his life, he may realize just how special you are.
Karmic Equation says
I’m Asian, too, Jenn. But I’ve been Americanized, as I’ve been in the States since I was 6 🙂
Not sure when you emigrated here, but I suspect you came here much older and much of what you say feels a little too “servile” to me.
I agree we should make men feel good, but it should be because it makes US feel good to make them feel good. If one has the INTENTION to make him feel good ONLY to become indispensable, I believe that it puts her in a bad place. Because if no matter how much she gives he doesn’t view her as indispensable, she’s going to end up bitter at worst, disappointed at best.
Please a man because it makes YOU feel good and not JUST TO please him. OR just to snag a relationship.
If pleasing a man is a forced and focused effort, once he gives her the relationship, she’s bound to stop making that effort and the relationship is going to disintegrate.
Give as much as she’s comfortable giving without feeling resentful. The trick is to give enough so that he recognizes her gift, but not so much that she in effect deifies him. Usually, if the woman is warm and trusting, this giving is effortless and very easily identified by him. Usually he’ll call her “sweet”. If “sweet” isn’t a term that a man has ever called her, odds are she’s hasn’t given enough for him to perceive her giving-ness (for lack of better word).
I guess I’m saying women need to learn to be sweet to men. Doesn’t mean she can’t be honest. Doesn’t mean she can’t swear in front of him. Doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be herself. But if “being herself’ means she’s NOT sweet, then it’s going to be an uphill battle for her to find a healthy, happy relationship with a quality man. I wonder if there are books to teach women how to become sweet as there are books for men to become PUAs.
Karmic Equation says
Read “Why Men Love Bitches” by Sherri Argov. It sounds to me you went from unappreciative to doormat, when you need to be somewhere in between.
You need to get bitchier—in the Argov context, not in the colloquial definition.
Good luck.
Morgan says
I simply want a woman who shows sincere devotion to me. She should also be a shoulder I can lean on in rough times. Most women in my part of the world have this caveman era mentality of men as being the strong hunter to bring home loads of meat, chase away intruders to make her feel safe. In real sense, those women just hide behind their inadequacies brought upon themselves by their needless father worship and want to transfer such burdens on their husbands or boyfriends.
Morgan says
I simply want a woman who shows sincere interest and devotion to me. She should also be a shoulder I can lean on in rough times. Most women in my part of the world have this caveman era mentality of men as being the strong hunter to bring home loads of meat, chase away intruders to make her feel safe. In real sense, those women just hide behind their inadequacies brought upon themselves by their needless father worship and want to transfer such burdens on their husbands or boyfriends.
ScottH says
This article is so spot on! Every word is perfect. This is why I keep coming back and even bought your book. Evan- you are really good at what you do (even though there is a point or two about which I disagree). Thanks for the blog. It’s good for 50 year old men too.
kris says
Come on now. Some women do ALL these things – exhibit the characteristics of the perfect GF while the guy exhibits all the characteristics of the perfect BF and still…POOF, he disappears. But pretending this is usually the reason I will add this: I believe women are at much more of a disadvantage when it comes to dating, I mean, imagine the heavy weight of being responsible for how a man “feels” about himself, thats a big undertaking that makes you scared to say or do the wrong thing that will somehow leave a man feeling unappreciated or unloved. The very same things he could say or do to a woman who would not take it so personally. I heard over and over again when I was married how my ex felt “unappreciated” and still to this day I have no idea what I was supposed to say or do to make him feel good about himself. I don’t ever want to be responsible for how a man feels about himself. I get my own self esteem from mySELF. If men can’t do that women are screwed.
Robert says
I am Robert Jones and I approve this message. Thank you Evan for telling it like it is.
Tbreeds says
This whole thing about being the ideal women is bullshit, be an individual find the puzzle peice that fits into yours. Everyone is different. Also the whole thing about men want someone who makes them feel good, women want the same exact thing.You shouldn’t change yourself for a guy, you should change yourself to become an over all better and happier person. If you don’t meet someone’s expectations then there’s someone out there whose expectation you do meet. Relationships all are about leaning to accept someone’s flaws and embracing their strengths. If you try to fit a mold for a guy all it will make you is unhappy and like you have a fake connection with someone.
emily says
Thanks for this. I’ve found some points for self-improvement. One is that my default mode is often stressed/anxious, although I’m generally happy as well. Even if I don’t verbalize it, perhaps it shows. I will work on that. Another is that when I’m attracted to a guy, I tend to refrain from asking him any questions about himself. I’m thinking it’s because I’m not ready to appear interested and don’t want to show my hand. For some reasom I feel very vulnerable when asking a man I’m interested in about himself. I’d rather let him ask about me. I guess I could step out of my comfort zone.
The biggest thing for me right now is trust. Normally I trust easily. I’m not the kind of girlfriend to look through my boyfriend’s phone, for example. But in the past two months alone, THREE men have asked for my number… two were engaged and one was married. Two of them lied to my face and led me to believe they were single. Google saved me before I developed feelings for them, but it still hurts that this keeps happening. Trust has to be earned to some degree. Not sure how to fix that one, other than to avoid men in the military. I’d like to believe they don’t all cheat, though.
Tina says
This may get you to the alter but it won’t keep you married. Over time him wanting to feel good becomes him wanting to be dominant and feel superior and right and in control. Some people like me were just not made for that.
I for one got sick of men talking out of both sides of their mouths. If I work hard to take care of myself and not have to rely on anyone I’m an angry feminist and denying Mother Nature. If I invest instead in being the pretty good girl men say they want and I do want the traditional home life then I’m entitled and I’m trying to trap a man. F$&@ it, I’ll rely on myself, thank you.
Mich says
Unfortunately men and women are not as different as people want to think. If you are a strong, charasmatic, independent lady, guess what, you want a partner that appreciates your intelligence and the pratical things you bring to the relationship (I.e. financial stability, resilience , etc) . You dont want people to say: well thats great, but no one cares about that. Imagine you told alpha-dog man that- like great work buddy, but women dont value any of that, they want you to grovel like the world depended on them.
I say, alpha women start dating teachers, councelors and trainers ect. Someone who can be happy when she get home from a hard day at work. And someone who actually appreciates all that she is. And then she can actually be happy, and appreciate what the guy is bringjng to.the table (care, support, attention) . As a alpha woman Id rather bring the financial stability to the table, its 2015. Women are eqaul, why are we still forcing things into the 1950s situation.
Unfortunatel 2 alpha dogs dont work well. We bring the same thing to the table. Forcing a alpha dog (female) to somehow also posses the qaulities of a beta dog, will just overwhelm this woman. The same way it would overwhelm a man.
Viola says
Simply put: if he feels GOOD about hanging around with you, he’s going to want to hang around with you forever. But if you think that he’s going to be drawn to you for your ACCOMPLISHMENTS — your degree, your job, your home, your impressive hobbies — you’re really missing something fundamental to men.
Is this supposed to be a special requirement of men? A woman wants to feel good about hanging around with her man. Can you imagine a woman who is drawn to a man for his accomplishments–his degree, his job, his home, his impressive hobbies–but how he makes her feel when she is with him is irrelevant? I can’t.
“In general, women want men to be leaders. They want someone tall, masculine, intelligent, and decisive. They want him to be a passionate captain of industry — a man who can hold a room with his charisma, tell a story that makes your sides split, and can bring home the bacon as well.That alpha male is very attractive and most women are attracted to him.”
Huge assumption in the statement above. I value that a man makes me feel like his queen, that he’s my best friend, that we can talk about anything, that we matter to each other, that we are a team. If we have money issues, we handle it together. As a teenager maybe I would have agreed, but as an experienced woman, I chose my mate because I actually LIKE him as a person, not because of any of the above qualities. In short, I chose him because of how I feel when I am with him.
al says
What men value in women is two things , youth and beauty. This is because it strokes his ego and makes him feel like ‘the man’
They see no value in a woman’s intelligence , compassion, inner strength , kindness or anything else once she is past a certain age or if she doesn’t also meet the narrow rules of what’s considered attractive
it’s very sad but very true
anna says
Er.. Yes: People are drawn to other people by how they feel around that person.. That includes women. No we haven’t missed this… It’s just we have all the same needs. Why are you making men a special case? It is not woman’s function on the planet to serve guys.. Wake up to the fact that women are also human and appreciate being recognised as equal friends and partners. .. and do please stop putting patronising instructions like this on public platforms.. Cheers..
Confused says
I tried this and the guys I ended up talking to/meeting treated me like I was an idiot. I was so pissed off! I don’t completely hide my brains! I sent beautifully written texts. When we talked on the phone I was eloquent and witty, but I didn’t roll out my resume, or brag about my accomplishments. What’s the deal? Can’t these guys pick up on my smarts?
I’ve blown so many possible relationships by talking about my experiences. But when I just focus on the guy, they seem to think I’m just some dumb girl!
Karmic Equation says
Examples?
Sometimes it’s not the words, but the delivery.
If you provide some examples of how you talk about your experiences to men or the texts you send, that would be a good start to eliminate content as the issue.
Confused says
I think it is my delivery. I can’t find the middle ground between job applicant and girlfriend candidate, or I haven’t yet.
Karmic Equation says
Talk to a guy you like the same way you talk a good friend.
Don’t think of him as a guy you like. Just think of him as a person you’re trying to get to know better. And let the conversation flow from that place rather than from a self-conscious place, like “Am I making the right impression?”
That might help with the delivery.
Good luck 🙂
steph says
What I find interesting in Evan’s list of what women want in a man is that there is not a single item that mentions how a man should relate to them as a person. It is only how he interacts with the outside world. Conversely, the list of what men want from women only show how she relates to him personally. If a man is not interested in a woman beyond what she does for him, it seems he only wants half of her and she is a burden to him if she exposes him to her life ouside his personal space. And do women make the mistake of considering a man a great catch as long as his public persona is amazing? It is easy to see why they become disillusioned when they find that the awesome behavior does not carry over to his pesronal life.
Michelle says
This is not the only place I have seen that idea expressed. IMO, both genders would do well to consider a bit from the “other list” so to speak. A lot of men do treat women like trophies too when it comes to looks/age – arm candy to give them social status. But women can treat men like trophies if they just want him to meet a list of socially impressive traits and place less emphasis on the dynamic between them.
So if you want a real relationship based on connection, then man or woman, you should notice how someone makes you feel AND you should take an interest in who they are.
It may be true that a man will like us women based on how we make him feel (ie fun, warm, etc), BUT we women should screen for men who take a personal interest in us as people beyond what we do for him personally. Because that shows he is unselfish and wants to make us feel good too. Who is honestly interested in a man’s business either? Most women like to see a hard-working, financially stable man, sure, but do you really care about the ins and outs of his job? I generally don’t have an interest in a man’s job, but I will take an interest in what someone else does because I am interested in them as a person – what fascinates them, what they spend their time doing, etc… Men may not choose women as partners based on this, but if they don’t cultivate and display this interest, then are they making us feel good? If the answer is no, then why would you want to be with that guy? Women need admiration too and if a man cannot or will not provide that, then move on to one who does. That may not be his reason for being with you, but it should be something he can give to you.
Fromkin says
“if a man is not interested in a woman beyond what she does for him…” :
Your career and academic achievements are worth talking about over dinner, but dating and interviewing for a job are two different things. Your resume is required for the one, not the other. The other involves hopping in the bathtub together.
Kat063 says
I understood the topic in the same way Damian explains it. It has nothing to do with equality but the amount of nagging, complaining, bitterness and sarcasm a guy is willing to take (as in NOT!).
I fell in love with a co-worker (who came on rather strongly), he has a relationship but is obviously attracted. Nothing materialised, I ended up with a broken heart. We still see eachother every day. I had a hard time letting go (still do) but after reading Evan’s blog realise that being nasty about it will only drive him further away. I try not to make him feel bad about it, try to be casual and fun loving as we used to be. he KNOWS I feel rotten, I don’t have to go and explain it. He tries to make me feel a bit better (inspite of) and I try to make him feel good about himself (and not the douche he is).
I think it works the same if you are in an actual relationship.
Jennifer says
When the article starts with “male as leader”, you can rest assured the advice is not following “equality” standards.
judy says
Sorry Jennifer – but much as I hate to say this, men don’t want equals. They certainly don’t want a doormat either. Maybe at work, equality standards apply but they certainly don’t at home, or in a loving relationship.
Women are great at being women and men are great at being men. It’s when we forget those differences that the trouble starts.
A certain behaviour (regardless of dress/fashion/income) does attract good men. If you start as the leader, you’ll have competition between “men”.
Think about it.
Jenni Lee says
They souls have to compete against women, so they don’t think they’re superior.
Besides, is rather be single than secondary.
Jennifer says
Equal relationship should be about compromise, not competition. Only a man fighting for supremacy would compete.
Jennifer says
So what if I don’t want a leader man? What if I want an equal relationship? This whole article is about catering to your leader man.
Men don’t value women unless women cater to their fragile egos? Give me a fucking break. I’d rather be single.
FG says
I do know men with fragile egos. But is seems they mostly want support as they plow forth doing their thing. Not validation, just support. Men are their OWN validation. Whereas it seems women seek validation from their women friends, from their work environment, and from their male partner as well. A never ending need for reaffirmation, corroboration and confirmation, but watch out should anyone require justification. “Them be fighting words!”
@ Jennifer in 63.1 & 64
Equality standards? Now you may a female statistical outlier with unusual testosterone level. Possible. So I reckon you asked men out on dates, picked up the tab, pursued with alacrity, but not beyond reason, have a stunning career, a wall full of university degrees, and wrote a few NY Times bestsellers?
Truth? Equal never meant identical. Women can be extraordinary crisis managers, but that means they’re very far from the typical woman psychological pattern. Said pattern is not instilled, environmental, cultural or imposed, it is developmental. See Brizendine’s The Female Brain (she’s a woman, by the way). In a crisis, I take over. Of if somebody else is specifically qualified, and I do hope it is a man in time of crisis, I move aside. There is a reason why women have not been called upon too fill combat roles.
A man leads. If you want to dance alone, feel free! How does he lead? Depends on the man. If you want to play OUR part, please, by all means, remain single.
Can we, should we, do we (as men) appreciate an “accomplished woman”? Firstly, what accomplishments? Are they VALID? Let me be the judge of that! So you got a PhD in Gender Studies. Sorry, in MY view, sounds like Cracker Jack box fluff prize. Verified in the past in two separate cases (one MBA thesis and one actual PhD; really decent high-school work, imho).
We heard about a CEO business-owner, large company. Is it an accomplishment? I will apply to women the same standard I use for men. a guy I knew owns a large chunk of shares and runs a $5B company. Like many such corporations, it was founded in an earlier time of rapid growth. So he inherited the position. I don’t believe he would have been the type of guy to build such an enterprise, nor would it have been possible in his formative years. My comment does not seek to dis him in any way. Is it an accomplishment? Well, he didn’t sink it, but his father made sure he was well advised. So his position doesn’t strike me as an accomplishment. Steve Jobs? Great accomplishments. See the difference?
Academia may or not yield “accomplishments”. One MD in England (lost the reference, sorry) stated he did not see himself as formidably intelligent, and he felt the same about his colleagues. Doesn’t mean he saw anyone in that group as dumb. Bright,, but not stunningly so! Their shared traits or qualities? Discipline, compliance, conformity, order, procedure.
Money? Perhaps! But our value-set may differ. I my find some obscure musician to be considerably more interesting than Michael Jackson or Miley Cyrus. Yet, these last two topped the charts and raked it in! Project that onto what you are doing: are you a cogwheel or an engine? Would I want to do what you do even for a day? It may pay really well! Then again, it may be brain-numbing to me!
In my view, the most important mission a woman will ever have, if she chooses to have children, is to raise them properly, free of trouble, and bring them to emancipation. Now THAT is an accomplishment.
Kanga says
All I can say is that after reading here for nearly one year, I have made the definite decision to stop looking and also stop believing that having a mutually satisfying relationship with a man who likes me for me, is possible. At my age (45-although not many people know this), I’m a dried up old husk to most men – even ones 20 years older. Also, the minute I introduce them to my beautiful daughters, he will be wanting to sleep with them because men only want youth and beauty and the day I see any man of mine, my age, glance at my beautiful and lovely daughters with a glint in his eyes, it will be over. I WILL protect my daughters from old lechers and it seems they are ALL old lechers underneath, no exceptions. That is the message I get from this site and comments. Men underneath think women are good for nothing but cooking and sex and if we are independent we are harsh, cranky bitches. We apparently don’t or shouldn’t want to make a mark on the world of our own or achieve anything that doesn’t involve bringing up children or supporting a man doing whatever he feels is important to him as a man. I have ONE life on this planet – I want to do something meaningful outside of having offspring. What happens when they leave home (two have) and I am left with nothing (I saw it coming and am now on my 3rd degree and living on scholarships while caring for my youngest)? My children are accomplished and emancipated and there isn’t a person who knows me or my children who doesn’t think I have done a fantastic job – but I have more to offer the world. I want to have achievements as a PERSON on this earth and apparently, there is NO man in the world who would ever see my desire, career or job as important or in need of a soft place to come home to – my job is to make him feel good about himself and then he might pick up the cheque, command a room and allow me to bask in his shadow!! – What he won’t do is make me feel good about myself, bolster my ego, listen to me, be patient and kind – that’s not his job – he just has to be an alpha male to my ego boosting support. Also, I better never nag or whinge – only he can do that because then it will actually be about something real and meaningful – nothing I could possibly do would ever be as meaningful because I’m probably also shallow and just whinging for the sake of hearing myself blather, as most women apparently are.
I’ve decided after a long deliberation that a relationship is not worth me losing myself or having to protect my daughters 24/7 while a man not related to them is around. I’m an old washed up haggard whinging witch with no value as a woman and who no man would ever seriously consider if he could get someone younger – I understand. My choices are pretty much a guy who is old enough to wear nappies and even then he will be dreaming of someone else if he could get them. That’s the very clear message I get here and I’m out. There are better things in life than twisting myself into a pretzel – I’m off to make my (to me meaningful) mark in my corner of the world (and try to keep my daughters safe from men 30-90!!).
The best gift I can give myself and men it seems, as an older woman on this earth, is to take myself well out of the equation and let the men my age slobber over girls young enough to be their daughter. I understand it is mens’ biological imperative and they can’t help it and we shouldn’t demonise them for wanting what they want – I get it, already!! You go for it, men!! But it’s over my dead body they are getting to my kids because of it and I won’t allow them to use me as a gateway because realistically they would never really want me for any other reason-if they had a chance elsewhere. I need to face that harsh truth about myself, get over myself for thinking I am anything/anyone and realise my true worthlessness as a desirable partner for any man or even that I could do anything important with my life outside of supporting a man be a man. It doesn’t matter what he says – it is clear what he is really thinking, as man after man has reiterated here. Reading the comments and stories on this site has deeply depressed me and made me abandon all hope (and I have)- BUT it has also made me more determined to be fiercely protective and also a person of substance in my own right and not as a backdrop for someone else’s life. Onwards and Upwards. Good luck, ladies. and MERRY CHRISTMAS!! 🙂
Evan Marc Katz says
See the Success Stories at the top of the page. Pick up a copy of Believe in Love from the Products page. Stop with the fear and the hyperbole. You have a lot of time before you die; don’t waste it thinking the way your comment would indicate.
Jenni Lee says
Yes, please read how women successfully turned themselves into secondaries, as they learned their roles as servants to men.
Cathalei says
It’s precisely because of that attitude that you’re complaining, you ostensibly support other women but when they make different choices they are “servants” and “secondaries”. No way they could feel respected and appreciated. Because apparently you know better than them as someone who has Internet. It seems your hatred blinded you to others’ experiences. It’s not because of your work and contributions that people find your stance unpleasant, it’s because you assume deficiency about others. Evan says he doesn’t allow insults but he seems to act more permissive than he says.
Evan Marc Katz says
Evan doesn’t read every comment. But I let your jab at me through, didn’t I?
Jennifer says
Kanga! YOU ROCK!
anastasia says
I’m tired of hearing this BS about how we should make men “feel”, Pull up your big boy pants and ask yourself as a man what do I have to offer in this relationship? Are you secure with yourself in what you have to bring to the table, as women, We don’t fill in the potholes of your fragile ego, I am responsible for my own happiness and I welcome with open arms someone who will add value to my life, be a responsive, loving, trustworthy and equally giving partner.
Evan Marc Katz says
It’s not BS. It’s EXACTLY what you just said. You want a “responsive, loving, trustworthy and equally giving partner.” So act like one.
Cathalei says
Evan,
It was not my intention to jab at you, on the contrary I pointed out how you act more tolerant than you usually state. You freely let the comments that portray you as a slave maker. Though I am still surprised by how determined some are to make straw man claims about what you are saying.
Cosmo Archibald Topper says
Pay attention to what the women on this thread say, young men. Then decide if you are willing to pay the prices they demand of you.
My advice is to refuse, but you decide for yourselves. It’s what men do.