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We’ve made out but no sex. (I want to be sure before I go there.) I start wondering if he’s too nice/boring/granola. I’ve travelled a lot, my friends all tend to be pretty ambitious, successful, outgoing types. I worried if he would fit in. I found him too timid. So 4 weeks in (7 dates,) I felt trapped. I couldn’t wait to get away from him! I pulled away when he tried to kiss me. It was pretty obvious that I wasn’t feeling it. When he suggested seeing a movie that weekend or cooking dinner for me later in the week, I was noncommittal. I suggested dinner the following weekend. I figured there was no harm in dating casually a bit longer. Plus, I’ve chosen fun, charismatic guys in the past and that’s gone nowhere! I wanted to see if I could make things work with someone who didn’t make me feel super tingly but might be a good long term partner.
But a few days later, he suddenly tells me things are moving too fast. He wants to dial it down and just be friends. When I asked why, he said “it just doesn’t feel right,” that I was giving out mixed signals and he had no say in anything. I was really, really shocked by this as the last time we met he was clearly keen to see me! So Evan, here’s the thing. He was right – I did give mixed signals. Ironically, (of course!) now that he has pulled away, I find him much more attractive and want him back. (I know this isn’t a healthy trait.)
After that, I admitted via text messages (not ideal I know) that I had some issues, didn’t behave well, and agreed it would be good to be friends. (But I really wanted to see him again to see how I felt.) After pestering him with texts, he agreed to spend Sunday morning with me to go for a walk on the beach. And we had a lovely, relaxing few hours. I wanted to kiss him, but I didn’t. I wanted him to kiss me, but he didn’t. I joked, “too bad we’re not dating, otherwise I’d kiss you.” He asked what he said that was so charming. I told him I was feeling more relaxed and left it at that. We had a long hug when we said goodbye. He kissed me on the cheek twice and said something about maybe cooking dinner for me again sometime… Now, I’m confused. Does he really just want to be friends? Is he still interested at all? So two days later, I texted asking if we could meet up for dinner sometime. 3 days have gone by and NO response. Evan, what do I do? I want another shot with this guy. Yes, I was stupid to have taken him for granted so early on. I still don’t know if he’s the guy for me, but he has qualities I really like. I realize I focused on things that were superficial. I don’t want to act all crazy and start stalking him. He must know I really like him, right?
Evan, you always say that a guy only wants to be with a girl who makes him feel good. I clearly didn’t make him feel good when I pulled away. How do I salvage the situation? I don’t even know if he pulled back because I pulled back or he met someone else or lost interest or he’s commitment-phobe. In which case, I’m better off not dragging things out… My question is, how can I get him to meet with me again in a low-pressure, relaxed environment so I can let him know genuinely how much I like him? Or should I just let it go? If he likes me, he will contact me himself, right? Help! Thank you! — Confused in the City
Oh, Confused!
If you weren’t such a big fan, I would tell you that this is a dilemma entirely of your own making and that you’ve made your bed and now you must lie in it.
Okay, that’s what I’m going to tell you anyway, because there’s not much I can really add to the belated wisdom you exhibited in your question:
You didn’t find him attractive or desirable until he became distant.
You blew him off and expected him to be waiting for you. He wasn’t.
You didn’t find him attractive or desirable until he became distant. Telling.
You were worried about what your friends thought and let that affect things. Sad.
You realized that chemistry is an illusion but you dissed him anyway. Predictable.
But then we get to the meat of your question, “What should I do to win him back?”
Let’s quickly flip it around, shall we?
Nice guy takes you out. Gets mixed signals. Gets blown off because you didn’t feel sufficiently excited, attracted, or nervous around him.
What could he do to convince you that you were wrong?
Should he text you again? Call you again? Send you flowers? Proclaim his love outside your window with a boombox?
Nope. There’s nothing the nice guy can do to convince you that you were wrong.
Wait. There IS one thing.
I nearly forgot because it’s childish, and nothing I’d ever recommend — except for the fact that it works like a charm:
He can pull away and stop trying to court you.
What a great strategy. It salvages his self-respect and makes you come crawling.
At least, that’s how it looks from the outside.
So, to all the people who are reading this who want to learn how to “get your boyfriend back,” the answer is clear: stop trying to get him back.
So, to all the people who are reading this who want to learn how to “get your boyfriend back,” the answer is clear: stop trying to get him back.
If he thinks you’re special, he’ll come around on his own.
And if he thinks you’re a little selfish, a little ambivalent and a little immature, you certainly provided enough evidence for him.
But I’m not worried about you, Confused. I’m pretty sure you’ll never make this mistake again.
The question — to me — is whether any of our readers will continue to blow off the good guys, simply because they’re too “available.”
Your anecdote makes a much better case than I could, thanks.
BloggyDaddy says
Evan, I think this is pretty common. Being back in the dating world again after my divorce 2 years ago I’ve experienced this. It’s really confusing sometimes and it feels counter-productive but if I express too much interest the spark is dead..dead..dead!
Iris says
I’m in the same boat. Blew the nicest guy I’ve ever dated off. Why? I said we weren’t compatible, didn’t have enough in common ect. That was about 6 months ago. We still talk. I just sent him a message saying I’d like to date him and I was wrong. I hope he accepts it. My problem is that I’m only attracted to crazy, controlling abusive men, so I’m ready to stop listening to my heart and start listening to my head and to be with a man who is logically a good long term made, rather than one who gives me a thrill.
Terikh says
All you’ll do is get bored and cheat on him because it’s thrilling.
Eri says
There is nothing you can do to win him back, you pretty much rejected the guy and men don’t give women that reject them second chances. Prepare for him to reject your proposal. What you did to the guy was pretty cruel by blowing him off, if he had any ounce of self respect he would reject you in a heartbeat.
Andre Lawson says
I 100000000% agree with ERI on this one. Speaking from the same experience, I felt bad about when she told me that I was Boring, Corny, Lame and TOOO NICE. She wanted the guy that was getting out of prison ( She met him while taking her friend to visit her man IN PRISON). He had just finished doing 8 out of 10 years for armed robbery and shooting his victim. After about 8 months into that “RELATIONSHIP”, he shot her for not letting him hide drugs in her apartment. I know all this because “SHE CALLED FROM THE HOSPITAL ATER HER SURGERY” apologizing and telling me the whole story asking me to forgive her and ‘LET’S BE FRIENDS”. I said Hell NOOOOOOOOOOOO and hung up in her face.
Raul says
if he has some self respect he will reject you. you see when you tell a guy he can be only a friend. we expect that. when you change your mind months later we feel like the loser back up guy, since you got dump or rejected by the guy you hook up with in 2 dates or 1st date. then you come to the friend who you went to many dates, and he never had a chance. how can he trust you when he did all he could a d still got the boot. then some guy who did not do shit got you on the first date. he will think that once in a relationship another super bad ass guy you fancy might come up and take you away in a heartbeat. my suggestion is forget about him you make a friend stay as friends.
Cheryl says
I’m not sure this is on topic but where is the line between being adoring and being smothering? I want to be with someone that adores me and that I adore. But, I’ve had new guys call and text not just daily but obsessively- almost hourly! I don’t have anything new to tell you since we talked an hour ago. I want to be with a nice guy. I practice the Adam Sandler effect and prefer to rate someone on personality over appearance but men, please don’t smother us! And then, I feel guilty for not wanting to be with these men. Ugh. I’m rambling.
Jim says
I don’t pick up any signs that this guy was smothering, just available. Many women with approach/avoidance issues label a guy as smothering when he’s simply not running away. When he goes away they get interested again. Forget that…
Eugene_G says
Cheryl,
At the surface, your post examines a fully reasonable, almost obvious argument. Your desire and subsequent search to find a charming, kind, available, loving, etc man (aka “the nice guy”) has left you annoyed. You found “nice guys” who get your hopes up, only to self-sabotage by calling so often that you feel understandably suffocated to the point where cutting ties is the only solution.
So, here comes the point I hope you and any other women claiming to want a “nice guy” take away from my following argument:
First, consider why these guys were ringing you off the hook. The answer boils down to one word, insecurities!!!
Can you imagine these men having vast dating experience? What would ever posses calling at this frequency? Lacking even the most basic common dating sense or just basic principles of human psychology that a man would have to put an effort into not naturally learning with social interaction.
I want you now to consider what dating the “nice guy” who fits your criteria perfectly would look like after no longer than 3-6 months. If you look at all those bullet points that come with defining a nice guy’s attributes, they might seem great at first, but will lead to you getting so tired of him, you’ll want him out of your life quicker than the original suitors who were blowing up you cell. And it comes back to the same exact attribute all Nice Guys posses; insecurities!!!
In no time, things like being eternally available for you, showing you copious amounts of adoration, and putting you before any of his own interests or problems will lead you to become bored. He treats you like the princess you wanted to be in a man’s eyes, however your looking for a significant other, not a loyal subject.
My point is that the reason “nice guys” don’t win is because during the dating process, they give all of themselves to the women, and in the process lose they’re own self identity. Happiness any given day for him is based solely on your mood and how much of the %110 he shows you daily, you feel like giving back that day.
Of course you want to feel desired and chased, however knowing that no matter what the guy will always be at your backing call will leave you seeking of other men who you don’t know for sure will be interested in you. Now you feel that tingling you’ve been missing and before long the Nice Guy will have to be dumped and heart broken..and really it’s by the doing of his own hand. If the experience does not inspire a change in his attitudes concerning what women really want in a relationship, then he will most likely keep repeating this self destructive cycle.
Im sure there’s a somewhere between biker gang abuser and the thrill less “Nice Guy”. Wish you all the best!
Demi says
Oh confused, I feel your pain!
This story sounds all too familiar to me as well and I hope he comes around. If not, you’ve learned a good, albeit painful, lesson.
A similar situation recently occurred for me as well. The guy and I had gone on two dates but I wasn’t feeling the chemistry. He tried to kiss me and I gave him the cheek. I told him I just wanted to be friends. Well, we ended up hanging out about 5-6 months later (at my invitation) and I thought “oh dear, perhaps I made a mistake…what to do?” After hanging out 3 consecutive weekends, the 4rth one, after a lot of flirting, he made a move to kiss me and it was HOT! He commented that we’re probably more than just friends now, however he hasn’t exactly followed up, except to send me a few texts the next day that he was thinking about me.
I am thus also confused, but realize that I may have sabotaged a regular dating situation through my own quick judgment of the guy.
Of course, all I can do is wait and see if he follows up on his “we’re more than just friends” statement.
Perhaps in your case it would be good to simply write him a quick email saying that you feel you made a mistake, apologize, and tell him you’re open to pursuing dating again if he’d like.
Then leave it all alone.
What he does will be your answer.
Carly says
Demi,
I experienced something similar and am wondering what it means and what to do.. I went on a date (this was over a year ago), with someone who is not physically my type. He’s not unattractive, he’s cute..just totally not my type. :/ Anyway, we had things in common, he was sweet, and all that good stuff plus really liked me! And that was unfortunately my turnoff. 🙁 I tend to like the chase..which never ends well for me. ugh. So At the end of one of our dates, he gives me a kiss (I figured what the heck)..and WOW! It was really amazing! It actually scared me..I pulled back (didn’t let it last too long) and said goodnight. I ended up not seeing him again after that. He got upset. Fast forward to NOW..I saw him online and he messaged me..wants to see me again and be “friends”. I am tempted because he was nice and I am just getting out of a shitty relationship BUT I am not sure it’s what I want and he will feel lead on..Sorry for the rant(!) but my question is..what I am trying to figure out in my head..is was that kiss a spark?? Was it considered chemistry?? If so, I’m surprised and still unsure of getting to know him (the NICE GUY)..I hate that I feel so unsure!!
How did your situation turn out? Did he contact you? What have you learned and could possibly pass along to others (me:) for advice?
Thanks, Demi!
Carly
Eri says
You pretty much friend zoned the guy, it’s over. You have no chance with the guy and it’s all your fault, let that sink in.
Willowandy says
If the thought of you taking the initiative for a moment does not turn you off, just tell him and suggest something to do.
With a good guy who is interested in you, that will work to get things started again.
On the other hand, if you want somebody who can instinctively read your signs and mind from day one, you already know the answer to whether this should go ahead or not.
Bill Ratliff says
Well said.
Alan says
You give terrible advice and you are obviously damaged goods. Maybe try an MRA web site instead?
Yet Another Guy says
@Alan
Eri’s comment may have suffered from poor delivery, but it is not bad advice. Guys do not like to be friend-zoned. What the guy did was give Demi a taste of her own medicine. It was his way of saying, “You blew me off. How does it feel?” He is not coming back. He achieved his goal, and that was to show Demi that friend-zoning a guy with boundaries has consequences. Only a man without options would have allowed Demi to have a second bite of the apple.
Scooter says
Hi Alana!
Please stop labeling any guy who doesn’t fit your hostile views (towards men), as an MRA or MGTOW!
ps- Mod.. this is the second post I have made towards Alana. You didn’t “approve” the first, yet there are far worse on this blog. Please be consistent.
Anthony Henderson says
Well that’ll be for him to decide if he wants to give you and him another go.Like you said ,you only liked him to fill a void in your life and once it was filled ,you kicked him to the curb.
kenley says
Dear OP,
Try telling the guy the truth and ask for a Mulligan. Too often in the world of dating we are so used to gamesmanship and subterfuge that just telling the truth isn’t the first thing that pops into our heads. If you are honest and vulnerable and admit your mistake, he just might surprise you and be willing to start fresh. If he doesn’t, then you can have the satisfaction of knowing that your were courageous and asked for what you wanted…and that’s always the best you can do.
wjr says
Wouldn’t work. I would believe that you had me as your backup plan and now the other person didn’t work out.
Eri says
Bingo
Willowandy says
Even if that was the case, we cannot always control timing.
Say, while you were seeing somebody, somebody else appearing to be better for you somehow turned up. Does that mean you shouldn’t follow through and be sure about the first one?
Truth says
This is so true. I am a man in a similar situation, and I can tell you if the woman were to honestly communicate with me her feelings – that she is indeed interested and feels she fucked it up – I would see it as an opportunity to connect and get closer. For years, men have been saying women need to stop ditching the nice guys and that it’s going to screw everyone up in the long run. It’s not happening so far, and it never will. Most women want the bad guys because their emotional experience with them conforms to what they learned about themselves in relation to males earlier in life. I don’t mean to get all Freudian or anything, but it’s true. I have no solution. Women are doing this to themselves. I think the best men can do is not be pushovers and put them in their place when they cross our boundaries, walk away from them because we deserve better, and continue pursuing to find the right woman for us. That’s how I see it anyway.
Steve says
Confused’s email reminds of that movie “The Tao Of Steve” ( based on a true story ) about a low income obese man who is a successful pickup artist. He claimed all of his teachings came down to 3 techniques:
1. Be excellent ( at anything, impress the woman )
2. Be desireless ( don’t project neediness, emotionally or sexually )
3. Be gone ( don’t make yourself too available )
I think EMK is correct in that such things are for less mature people. However, they do effect people. Women value strength in men. A strong person who has things happening in his life is naturally going to be doing #2 & #3. Someone who isn’t, is going to send a message on an unconscious level to a woman that he isn’t that great of a catch
*HOWEVER*
Freud said that “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. Some guys are “nice”, even realizing the signals they put out, because that is just the way they like to be and they don’t care if it gets them women or not.
It is over either way for Confused. On an unconscious level she doesn’t find that behavior attractive. People tend to lose interest in people who lost interest in them. If Evan is right, if the man realized he was driving you away by being too available, he probably wouldn’t respect you very much for responding to a dating/PUA trick. Given the kind of woman Confused is, that lack of respect may make her want him more, but that doesn’t mean he will want her nor that they will be happy together.
My vote is for moving on.
Ruby says
I think this kind of ambivalence is very common in the early phases of dating. What matters is how both parties handle it. Men also want to protect themselves, and if someone sends mixed signals, that can be a warning to other person to back off. That’s what happened here. When he backed off, CITC had the space to move closer again.
What’s problematic is how she handled things after that. After a really bad break-up, it’s not unusual to feel cautious about getting involved with someone new. Instead of talking to him in person or phone, perhaps mentioning her situation, that she hadn’t been in a relationship in quite a while and needed to take things more slowly, she texted him that she had “issues”. I know we all have some baggage, but personally, I wouldn’t be pleased if I received a text message telling me that my prospective partner has problems (and i don’t know what they are). Still, even after their long walk, she didn’t use the opportunity to tell him in a direct way how she felt. After blowing him off, with vague talk of her problems, she’s now pestering him with text messages.
It’s no wonder the guy isn’t chomping at the bit to go out again. At this point, I’d give things a bit of a cooling off period. If CITC doesn’t hear from him, then maybe an email with a more direct explanation of her feelings would work.
Still Looking says
After dating extensively and going through the “why bother” stage numerous times I found someone I thought might be special. Our chemistry on our first date was off the charts and 10 hours later we could barely pull ourselves apart. We met again the next day and that day was also magical. I was really falling for this lady and then the problems began. She started to pull back. We had sporadic communications for a few weeks and we finally had a lengthy phone conversation in which she stated we had fantastic chemistry, she really liked me, etc. but I wasn’t attentive to her needs because I’d do things like talk with her on the phone too long and it was my responsibility to cut the conversation off when it was time for her to go to bed.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the rationale for cutting off the budding relationship probably has nothing to do with the nonsensical reasons she gave me. Maybe she is afraid of moving forward. Maybe she doesn’t want to risk being hurt again. I don’t know.
At first I was torn between is she playing hard to get or is she really just not interested. Should I send flowers and pursue or should I just sit back? After reading numerous articles and comments on Evan’s site the answer is clear — no matter how wonderful I think this woman is, the reality differs from the illusion and I just need to sit back. Maybe in 6 months or a year she will be ready and I might be interested. Unfortunately, her hot then cold attitude has left me lukewarm at best. If I saw her tomorrow and she met me with a huge smile and a hug, I’m sure the chemistry would be right back to 10+, but her actions after the first weekend together have definitely knocked her down on the compatibility scale quite a bit. I imagine the OP’s BF feels the same way and thanks to internet dating, there’s not much reason to hang around waiting to see if another date would result in true love or being kicked to the curb again.
Selena says
Well…if HE hadn’t pulled back do you really think you would still want him? How about if both of you kept it going 10 -12 weeks? That’s pretty much the mark when people decide if there is anything “there” or not.
I think you just want him because *inexplicably* he doesn’t want you. The truth is probably neither of you were that into each other and realized it 7 weeks in. As often happens.
Honey says
Yes, to me there is no real evidence that there is anything “there” beyond the fact that she wants to feel attractive, which is how she felt when he was chasing her. When he wasn’t, she became insecure again and this rekindled the attraction. I would bet as soon as he became available again, she’d lose interest again – which isn’t the nicest way to treat someone you respect. I’d just let it go.
This sort of thing happened to me so many times when I was dating that I started to wonder if it was me and if I’d do it with everyone, no matter what – but no fear! When I met the right guy I was even more attracted when he reciprocated.
And we just got engaged last week!
Selena says
Congrats Honey! Though I have to say, I thought you and Jake had already planned to marry before this. ??
starthrower68 says
I suspect, as Honey says, she was even more attracted when Jake reciprocated is probably what our OP would have experienced had this been the right guy. It’s probably tough on this guy because rejection hurts. Once I am rejected by someone, I pretty much shut off my emotions toward that person, and it would not be very easy to rekindle them. I doubt he’s a commitment phobe. I suspect he’s smarting and is gun shy.
hunter says
…How interesting, women have done me, the same way “confused” did to her friend.
Annie says
Can I throw something out here, that I think really clouds our judgment on this?
Sex.
When we meet some-one, we want to QUICKLY determine wether or not we feel sexual desire for them. If we don’t, we WANT to feel that desire, so we keep trying, when it doesn’t happen we pull away, often too quickly. There is WAY too much sexual pressure in relationships especially in dating.
Then the male in question, who finally voices his own thoughts, we begin to see a person, not a thing who we wish could make us feel sexy and desired. He doesn’t exist to make us feel that way. He was simply being nice and trying to get to know us!!
I have relaxed, deliberately around the whole physical side of things, because I think this is a huge problem. Stop expecting chemistry and excitment. Just notice the person you are with. If he’s right, you won’t be having sex…you will be “making love”..wether it’s fiesty love, or tender even if this takes some time. 🙂
How to get him back? You can’t. Just be receptive if he calls again 🙂
Steve says
@Honey #9. I thought you already were engaged as well :). Congratulations!!
Karl R says
Confused in the City asked: (original post)
“He must know I really like him, right?”
He knows you send mixed signals. How is he supposed to figure out that you’re really interested in him?
Confused in the City asked: (original post)
“If he likes me, he will contact me himself, right?”
He did let you know that he liked you … when he leaned to kiss you. You responded by pulling away. (And that let him know you didn’t feel the same way.) He let you know again … when he kissed you on the cheek twice. And how did you respond to that? Did you kiss him back?
So your actions are still telling him that you’re not interested. That lowers his incentive to contact you.
Confused in the City asked: (original post)
“how can I get him to meet with me again in a low-pressure, relaxed environment so I can let him know genuinely how much I like him?”
If you’re waiting for a relaxed, low-pressure environment in order to tell him that you like him, then you’ll never tell him. If you want to tell him, you’ll make the opportunity to tell him. And you’ll take that opportunity even though it won’t be relaxed or low-pressure.
Confused in the City asked: (original post)
“Is he still interested at all?”
I have no idea. If you want to find out, you’re going to have to risk being turned down. And that’s why it will never be sufficiently relaxed and low-pressure.
One thing to be aware of:
If I were in his shoes, I would only give you one more chance. If you flaked out a second time, I wouldn’t give you a third chance.
And if Honey (#9) is correct, then it’s a moot point.
Honey says
We had set the date, but I did not yet have the Best Ring Ever. Now I do 🙂
A-L says
Congratulations, Honey!
jrd says
“…I’ve chosen fun, charismatic guys in the past and that’s gone nowhere! I wanted to see if I could make things work with someone who didn’t make me feel super tingly but might be a good long term partner.”
I have two questions for Confused in the City: How do you believe this man would feel were he to learn what you actually think of him and your relationship? Why should he give you another chance?
Steve says
IMHO, #8 is the best comment. Down to Earth. Succinct.
Selena says
Good question jrd. How many of us would want to be someone who admited we didn’t make them feel super tingly, but thought we might be a good term partner anyway. Sort of sounds like picking out a sensible car. Not very flattering. Got to be a little more than that to make someone excited about being with you, yes?
Evan Marc Katz says
@Selena: “How many of us would want to be someone who admited we didn’t make them feel super tingly, but thought we might be a good term partner anyway.”
Frankly, Selena, I think everyone is WAY too insecure, sensitive and unrealistic about this kind of stuff. If I have a happy marriage that I find loving, fun, nurturing, and fulfilling… if I treat my wife like gold and get treated like gold in return… if we’re building a life and a family that is 100% gratifying – what DIFFERENCE does it make that I’ve admitted that she didn’t make me feel super tingly when we met?
Similarly, if she married me and we’re both happy, why do I have to have the fantasy that I am the smartest, cutest, wealthiest, kindest, funniest, sexiest man she’s ever been with?
That’s right. I don’t.
Because I’m secure with myself and I’m secure in my marriage.
Solid relationships can withstand the truth. Weak ones are the ones where we have to tell pretty little lies because of our partner’s insecurity. Worrying that your partner “compromised” his/her way into a great relationship with you is a great waste of energy that can undermine something really wonderful.
Over the years, I’ve had a number of people tell me how sorry they are for my wife – because I talk about her honestly like this.
All I can say is that my wife is CERTAINLY not sorry she married me.
She allows me to tell the truth and doesn’t judge me for it.
This is a standard to which I would hope you’d aspire.
You don’t need to “tingle” to be happy, and if you think you do, well, I predict you’re going to have a hard time finding a relationship that lasts 40 years…
starthrower68 says
CITC should have put off the impulse to run and gave it a chance. I have done that with a guy or two before and ultimately it didn’t work out, but I at least stuck with it long enough to see if anything could develop. I think a woman has to search for that happy medium; he may not want to make her rip her clothes off (at least not at first) but she is sufficiently physically attracted to him to have sex with him should the opportunity arise (no pun intended). Her mental and emotional attraction to him will get her the rest of the way there, as women are much more cerebral about this stuff.
Selena says
Evan my friend,
You are in a relationship that has lasted around 4 years so far. I hope it does last contentedly for you and your wife for the next 40. But you can’t predict that, no matter how much you may want to. That’s the realm of faith and hope. And time will out.
I don’t need a “tingle” to be happy. I already am happy. But I would be definetly less happy if I found myself trying to connect with someone who didn’t desire me really, but more so saw me as a means to an end – my good qualities as…utilitarian. And I suspect that might be the case with the letter writer Confused in the City. I can understand that she has tired of dating charismatic guys where the relationship ends going nowhere. And at age 37, she wants something more substantial. She’s looking deeper. Still…even though this last one was a “nice guy” doesn’t mean he was the nice guy for her.
She didn’t dismiss this man after one or two dates, she went on 7 over 4 weeks. She wrote she became bothered because she found him too timid. That is until he told her he wanted to dial it down and be just friends. Then all of a sudden she had to have him! He was getting away!
What do you think might be the outcome if this “timid” man resumes his courtship of her? She’ll be relieved and appreciative – at first. Then once she has him back for awhile (possibly) she will find herself becomming dissatisfied, he’s not outgoing enough, not ambitious, driven enough… great guy that he is, she will find herself the one who is driving the relationship. And resenting it. Not a pleasant outlook for the next 40 years.
The takeaway here for CITC, is that she DID learn to appreciate qualities beyond the superficial of infatuation. That’s a win. Take that into the next. Understand how the *good* qualities matter, but also realize she personally needs someone who is a bit more outgoing, willing to take the wheel.
“Super tingly” is fun. But who expects “tingly” to last lifelong? On the other hand who wants to be with someone who doesn’t feel that way about them in the first month or three, or six? Who wants to enter a romantic relationship with someone who’s main concern is durability? Apparently not CitC’s nice guy.
Or me.
jrd says
EMK,
I do not usually take the liberty of speaking for anyone but myself, but I will do so in this case. I believe that most people need to believe they were chosen by their partner, and not simply filling a position. They do not want to be the I-could-not-have-my-first-choice-so-I’ll-make-do-with-you option. The majority of people do not need to believe they are “the smartest, cutest, wealthiest, kindest, funniest, sexiest” person their SO has ever been with, but they need to feel they are more special than anyone else to their partner. They need to believe their SO thinks of them as the best choice, not the default choice.
Steve says
My intuition is that EMK and Selena do not disagree, they are just getting caught up in their choice of words. I don’t think either of them have a problem with the idea of two people coming to value each other more than when they met, over time, as they get to know each other. I also don’t think either of them would advise anybody to keep dating someone who they think of as a loser ( reading between the lines of Confused’s description ) after having given them a a fair shot — 7 dates.
Ruby says
So which is it?
Did CITC act too hastily because her guy didn’t fit the mold of the “successful, outgoing, ambitious” men she’s dated in the past? Or was she trying to force herself to like someone that she wasn’t really feeling enough for because she thought she should?
Steve says
@Ruby #26.
Is 7 dates spread over 4 weeks a fair shot?
Selena says
Re: #25 Steve
You are correct, EMK and I aren’t that far apart here.
I’ve had my share of infatuations when I was younger. I’ve also had relationships that didn’t begin “super tingly” but developed some of that as I got to know the guy better and turned into something serious. I believe it’s pretty common to feel some measure of ambivalence in the early weeks/months of dating – you just getting to know each other after all, and sub-consciously, if not consciously evaluating whether or not you make a good match. I see the value in riding out ambivalence for a short while opposed to hasty decision making.
Not sure that’s the case here though. CITC writes:
“So 4 weeks in (7 dates,) I felt trapped. I couldn’t wait to get away from him! I pulled away when he tried to kiss me. It was pretty obvious that I wasn’t feeling it. When he suggested seeing a movie that weekend or cooking dinner for me later in the week, I was noncommittal.”
That doesn’t sound like ambivalence to me. It sounds like she realized she just wasn’t into him. And that bit about not fitting in with her friends was a rationalization. It was when he rejected her (albeit nicely) that she decided he was a great guy and she wanted to continue dating him. Rejection stings. If she could convince him to “give her another chance”, she gets to erase the rejection. Pretty neat trick. But just because she realizes he has many of the good qualities that she wants in a partner doesn’t necessarily make him the right guy for her. Or that she would be able to convince herself he is in ensuing months.
Since these letters are printed a month after they were written, I’d like to know what happened next. How about it Confused In The City?
Honey says
@jrd, #24 –
But I think EMK would agree with you completely. His point is that what you are saying and what he is saying are not mutually exclusive. I am sure his wife IS more special than anyone else to her.
Love isn’t just what you FEEL, in other words. It’s what you DO.
Evan Marc Katz says
To clarify my point, yet again…
My response in the comments had NOTHING to do with the OP’s question, which is why I never referenced the OP’s question. It exclusively had to do with the comments from jrd and Selena, which suggested that it matters why two people end up in a happy relationship. If my wife decided that she was 38, had been with a cheater before, and thought that I was a good guy who made her laugh and wanted to be a father, then that’s a PERFECTLY valid reason – especially if she’s HAPPY with the choice she made. The real problem here – as illustrated in Dan Ariely’s “The Upside of Irrationality” is that we UNDERESTIMATE our ability to adjust to new circumstances and OVERESTIMATE the value of achieving the highest of highs.
In other words, your “new car”, in 5 months is just “your car”. It will not continue to make you as excited as the day you bought it, no matter what.
And a man who is paralyzed in a car accident reports that his happiness is virtually the SAME one year later as it was before his accident. We all revert to the mean. Which is why holding out for the “new car” feeling is usually a futile plan. Once the new car smell wears off, what are you left with? That’s right. Your best friend.
In other words, you damn well should be concerned about durability in a marriage; FAR more than “tingly” for the first six months before it wears off.
This is science, y’all – not my opinion.
Goldie says
@ #30, I object! I referred to my car as “my new car” for probably the first five or six years… 😀
But, seriously, I don’t trust “tingly”. Give me enough alcohol, and most guys will make me feel tingly. I probably make a lot of them pretty tingly as well. Being considered a good long-term fit is IMO a lot more rare and valuable. Heck, if a guy told me that I don’t make him super tingly, but that I’ll make a great companion long-term, it will be such a deviation from the norm, I’ll probably follow him to the ends of the world just for saying that 🙂
Also, if your partner’s “tingly” wears off before yours does, you’re in for a world of pain. I learned that in my past marriage.
jrd says
[email protected]#30: “To clarify my point, yet again…This is science, y’all – not my opinion.”
Duly noted.
Sherell says
Time will tell in my opinion. People may start out believing that everything is great and wonderful. But time will tell all.
Some us tingle and some don’t. My husband died , but we were married for 10 good years plus 2 dating. There was that special feeling that was constant for the first 2 years. But it didn’t disappear completely. it came back periodically over the 12 years It ebbed and flowed. He made a great partner no doubt, but he also made me tingle!!!
Snazzy says
#26 ruby
I believe “Or was she trying to force herself to like someone that she wasn’t really feeling enough for because she thought she should?”.
I’ve been in that situation. I’ve thought logically – this is a nice guy with good qualities, bit I just didn’t feel it (or want to kiss him). Logic isn’t enough.
To clarify, I also don’t believe in that overwhelming initial chemistry- it does fizzle. I do think 7 dates is enough to know you’re just not that into him, even if he is a really nice guy.
JoJo says
Evan’s point is spot on. I feel that a relationship that’s based on friendship verses chemistry is a more substantial one and is more likely to last. I don’t usually feel chemistry right away and I don’t rule a guy out just because I don’t feel that tingly feeling. I’m one who likes to take things slow and like to build on the friendship. At some point I eventually want to be able to feel that I at least want to kiss the guy. Rubi #26, Selena 27 and snazzy 34 make valid points. I’m curious to know what happens when you’re getting to know a nice guy but you just don’t even have the desire to kiss him? How much time should you allow yourself before ruling him out as a partner? Steve 28 asks the question about if 7 dates is a fair shot. Evan, I would like to know what you advise women on this situation.
Kurt says
If that guy has any self-respect, he definitely will not take back the “confused” letter writer. There definitely are some women who think that if a man looks great on paper and is respectful and polite, that he must therefore be totally into those women. In my own experience, women like that often take the men for granted and think that the men will always be there regardless of how well or poorly the women treat them. Women who behave like that are totally shocked when the guys decide that they don’t won’t to put up with the woman’s ambivalence or bad attitude.
This happened to me when I was dating a girl whom I wasn’t even that into. She started acting flaky and canceling dates for stupid reasons, so I told her I didn’t want to see her anymore and that her behavior was unacceptable. She totally shocked and tried to blame her actions on PMS, which I didn’t believe because I don’t think PMS lasts for two weeks straight. The strange thing is that she seemed to want me much more after I stood up to her, but by then I decided I no longer wanted to be with her at all because she should have treated me well from the start.
quiet observer says
On another note:
The OP seemed to focus only on *herself*. “He cooks me dinner”; “I blew him off”, etc , etc.
A healthy relationship consist of giving and receiving. When it is predominantly one-sided, one party inevitably gets tired.
Da Virg says
The Myth: Just because a guy is nice, treats you like a princess and regularly shows you how much he genuinely likes to be in your presence, doesn’t mean that he is the one for you, especially if he doesn’t make your, um, “heart” go pitter-patter. Holding out for the perfect guy, who has all of the “nice guy” qualities with bad boy packaging, and a little more excitement and intrigue is the smart move. You shouldn’t settle, even for the nice guy. Someone better, who has all of the qualities you are searching for, will come along eventually.
Reality: In your 20s, the Nice Guys are lame. In your 30s, they will be the hot bachelor that every woman is clamoring to get. There is no such thing as a nice guy with bad boy packaging. Chances are, the thing that makes the “bad boy” interesting and exciting to you now, are the very things that will have you crying, crumpled up in your bed, questioning your foul judgment later. The older you get, the more you learn to appreciate the Nice Guy.
He may not be aloof (he actually answers when you call or text), he may not be intriguing (he’s interested in meeting your friends and introducing you to his family), he may not be exciting (he doesn’t leave you to wonder about how he feels about you) but he’s there for you. Maybe he’s a little nerdy (he’ll also retire comfortably at 50). Maybe he isn’t the certified “cool guy” that everyone knows (he comes home to you every night) but he’s there for you.
The Nice Guy is the one that actually likes, cares and loves you–learn to appreciate his qualities now, and avoid years of heartache from dealing with an exciting, “cool” guy who will inevitably turn out to be a dumb ass later.
How to Apply the Thing You Just Learned:
Step #1- Honestly assess whether or not you are even remotely attracted to your Nice Guy. If you have even a smidgen of non-platonic interest in him, keep him. Time has a funny way of enhancing feelings. If you’re not interested at all, don’t string him a long and mess him up for the next girl.
Step #2- Stop looking at all of your Nice Guy’s boring qualities. Focus on all of the things that make him a Nice Guy. Before you know it, the boring qualities will seem inconsequential–or even more likely, become what you love the most about him.
Step #3- Stop watching bad romantic comedies and trying to draw comparisons to your own life. Those movies are totally unrealistic. In fact, they are the devil.
lsgasg says
Yes there are such thing. I was listening to some singer describe such a thing yesterday and describing, I think the word is “rascals” with a heart of gold. She used Han Solo as the archetype.
Gorb says
Yeah.
You’re a victim of yoru own success. What you need is a man who leads, more than this guy; he has no game. He needs to learn Game, learn how to keep you on your toes, a little off-balance.
Like it or not, this is why you want him now. if a man is too available, women won’t want him. Distant and hard to get – now they want him. Men who are too available stink of boring and safe and “he has no other options”.
it’s basic programming, right up there in the hindbrain.
lsgasg says
“Game” is urban street parlance for excellence in basketball. What you’re describing is fencing or something. A relationship that involves “keeping people on their toes” sounds more like a game of hide and seek or tag, and the antipathy of romance. You’re probably right about the evolutionary need for women to feel like they need to procreate with Jason from Friday the 13th, though. It’s damned unfortunate and probably why men accused of rape feel so much resentment.
Bill says
This guy made the right decision. I’m really sorry, but you are not a nice girl. Nice guys want nice girls. Perhaps you should work on yourself instead of working on finding yourself a nice guy.
Mickey says
Is there a bigger kiss of death than “Let’s Be Friends?”
Gabrielle says
OP
Thank you for sharing.
I want to say good on you! I am writing in response to Bill’s comment. Who most likely is a nice guy, in spite of his comments, with his strong defense of nice guys out there.
Firstly the OP, states that she is in a cautious place after a really bad break up….not a fun place to be.
Perhaps because of this experience, she is brave enough to try Evan’s advice (which I also adore) and do something counter intuitive to her past. ***** five stars in my book.
“Plus, I’ve chosen fun, charismatic guys in the past and that’s gone nowhere! I wanted to see if I could make things work with someone who didn’t make me feel super tingly but might be a good long term partner. ”
Wow, I am impressed that she was willing to try something different. The first time we try something new we may not get the excellence we want. Of course something unfamiliar can be confusing at first, till we get more and more clear 🙂
OP did one of my favorite things, was accountable and took responsibility.
I feel happy that she tried it, liked it. It sounds like you are growing and getting wiser and got the experience of another type of partner. I think the hardest thing was doing it the first time, I suspect it will get easier and easier and more enjoyable with each experience of nice guys.
It was inspiring for me to read it, a great first attempt at something new.
Thank you for sharing and I wish you the very best.
Lt Dan says
Being the guy mentioned (not specifically from this story, just the same situation) I can tell you that if he likes you and respects you he won’t make the first move. After essentially being told you weren’t interested he is going to respect that. I stopped texting the woman that did this to me and after a couple of months I get a valentines day text. I can tell you it was quite effective.
Just yesterday she sends me a text expressing boredom being out at a bar with friends. She wasn’t impressed with the bar being a gaybar, or something. it was pretty much like she was telling me that she was out with friends but not to pick up a guy… Like she was waiting for me to offer to come join her. If it wasn’t one of the days that I have my kids, I would have.
I guess what I’m getting at is this: What drove him away was lack of interest and mixed signals. Want to see if he’s still interested? Express interest in him, but be casual. If he blows you off, there is likely no hope.
Jared says
This whole first article is why I get so frustrated with women.
trw says
Women wants to get off the carousel, fine. Hypergammy may not care, but her solipsistic thinking will pay a price when guys with options ignore her. I don’t have any sympathy for the typical 30 something Alpha widow.
Mickey says
This is a rather ironic piece considering the mentality that being “nice” is considered a disability when it comes to dating.
Y says
You don’t love him, never will do either. He figured it out and left, give him a break, don’t ruin his life.
Just count the “i” in your letter, it’s all about you all along…
You don’t want him back for a healthy relationship you just want validation and ego boost again, which you’ve been denied while you were unprepared, thus making you feel hurt. So sad.
he is obviously not stupid, and totally not into drama. You had a shot and you blew it, make things better with the next one instead of trying to fill imaginary chick-lit needs.
phil says
in response to:
Selena 19
(quote
Good question jrd. How many of us would want to be someone who admited we didn’t make them feel super tingly, but thought we might be a good term partner anyway. Sort of sounds like picking out a sensible car. Not very flattering. Got to be a little more than that to make someone excited about being with you, yes?
also stop and think on this :
how man nice guys (this can include nice girls as well) feel at times they were just settled for because the women(or man) felt the way the OP did. they had better sexual(chemistry) experiences with the flashier type people. however this guy will do in a pinch type deal. yah, real way to win a persons heart over. the person may never say anything directly about it but there can or could be times it may cross his(or her) mind. reading thru the other posts here were some broke down the OP’s post and commented on it would seem to bear out what I’ve just said here.
Scott says
One factor that should be taken into account when deciding whether to “settle” for utility is the woman’s attitude toward “I’m-not-in-the-mood” sex. Crucial for her to be honest with herself. Some women, when they are in the mood, they are into it, and when they are not in the mood, they can easily tolerate letting him do his thing. Other women, when they are in the mood, they are into it, and when they are not in the mood, they can’t tolerate him touching her. For women in the latter category, chooisng someone that doesn’t make her tingle is a bad idea. It is one thing for a guy to realize “she is not that into me, but she chose me because I treat her well, and she makes herself available even when she is not in the mood because she appreciates me”. That is a compliment. Very different from “she is not that into me, and she chose me for utilitarian reasons, and I wish she had shared that with me before we got married because I am tired of being turned down”. First know thyself. Even that has risks, because sometimes you think you can tolerate something and it turns out over the long haul that you can’t. But if you know up front you have trouble participating when you are not in the mood, going forward is foolhardy. Affection can and frequently does grow over time. Tolerance for unwanted sex generally does not.
ManOfRome says
Okay, first let’s cover you, confused. You mention that with the ‘outgoing type’ that made you feel ‘tingly’ it never worked out. Reading what happened with this guy, it probably wasn’t the type of guy but rather your attitude in dating regardless of the personality type of your partner.
Second thing is, you need to get over yourself. Lets face it, you acted like you were too good for him, then he blew you off. He showed you affection, and you didn’t want it, he showed you nothing and suddenly you want him, probably because now YOU feel rejected and need validation.
Get over yourself, get over your ego… and most importantly, stop using men to try to validate your insecurities.
ManOfRome says
In light of my previous comment, I will offer a solution.
Apologize. Women seem to forget men have feelings, complex, deep, human, emotional, irrational, feelings. I guarantee you hurt them in your nice guy.
He probably thought things were doing okay, especially if he likes taking things slow. he tried to kiss you and you pulled away, your body language said ‘I’m not interested in you’ then he tried to make plans, (more than likely not because he wanted to do something, but because he wanted to know your response after the pull away), and you confirmed that you had no interest.
You probably hurt his feelings, and gave him mixed signals. How did you repair this, you got him to go on another date with you and you… SHOWED HIM NO INTEREST… and in that no respect
Sounds like he cut his losses, I guarantee you are not the first girl to treat him like this, so he won’t wait around for you to stop making him feel unwanted… He’s going to find someone who is going to appreciate him, and rather than play little games, be honest with him…
So that’s it… If you are mature enough, apologize, be honest, and most importantly, apologize, you were not kind to him, and it doesn’t sound like he deserved it.
SparklingEmerald says
THIS is why I don’t lead guys on, give them a chance etc. One poster suggested going out with a guy for a month if he didn’t repulse you. I replied to that, and thought it was terrible advice, because I think advising women to date men that they aren’t even remotely attracted to is bad, advice and leads to crap like this. (I also don’t think you should expect fourth of July fireworks, but to set the bar so low to “doesn’t repulse me” does no one any favors) Boy, did I get piled on for disagreeing with THAT poster.
I think one of the bad things about giving “nice guys” a chance when you feel ZERO attraction, is they will try to win your heart (because by you giving them a second, third or fourth date, you really ARE leading them and giving them false hope). And you will see that they have these great qualities, and that they would make a good partner. IOW, the will look good on paper, but you still won’t be feeling it. (Now if there was a small amount of attraction, it can grow, but zero attraction, I seriously doubt it. There may be a few scattered exceptions, but that is not the norm) So you feel guilty about not getting “the tingles” for the guy who has treated you so well, and you try to “learn to love him”. These things end up blowing up in your face.
Oh yeah, and when he starts ignoring you, in response to your obvious lack of attraction, and you start thinking about giving him another chance, THAT IS YOUR EGO !! It’s the “How dare you break up with me, I’m supposed to break up with you”. Don’t be a bitch, let him go, and find a woman who is EXCITED about seeing him again, who is thinking “I can’t wait to see him again” and not “Hmmm, maybe I should give him a chance”.
I’ve been on both sides. I’ve tried “giving guys a chance”, and only ended up hurting them. I have pre-emptively broken up with guys when I just knew they weren’t really that into me relationship wise (but weren’t above trying to score some NSA booty) . Boy was it a hit to their ego that I “broke up” with them. (Not really, because I was only responding to their obvious indifference) If I break it off due to their indifference, they try to come back. I don’t think it’s really because they want to try again. I think they just want to make sure that it is THEY that end it and not me. I think it’s their ego, and not a genuine change of heart or clarity on previous ambiguity. Or maybe they are just horny and still think they can pull off a booty call with me.
I agree with what most people here said. The OP is just on an ego trip. Go find a guy you really like, and let him go so that he can find a girl he really likes.
Bjorn says
You had your chance and you rejected him. Leave him alone, because at this point he no longer trusts you.
Mickey says
Give her another chance? Why should he?
Murphy says
Don’t mind him. He doesn’t love you and if he loves you he would have wait till you guys get married. don’t give a chance to him because they are players. hit and run.
Jonathan says
You ditched him. You don’t deserve another chance
Lamarcus says
I give credit to the OP for her bravery in posting her situation for all to see- that takes guts and is very respectable in my opinion. I give her even more credit for having an open mind and looking at the situation as honestly as she can and displaying willingness to look at her own flaws during the situation that unfolded.
Many of the posts here seem genuinely trying to give helpful advice; that’s good to see. The theme of the replies seem to be that it’s best for the OP “to let it go” although the reasons to do so differ greatly. I agree with most, if not all, of them.
Now I would like to bring up a point/topic that will make me seem bitter, which I’m sure I am: It seems to take a large majority of American women into their late 30’s or early 40’s to realize how unrealistic their expectations are. I blame feminism; the bitterness of their mothers who had a very unfair life in the women vs men equality situation, and books and movies that cater to those types of attitudes. I think Social Media then takes that thinking to the Nth degree with women supporting each other blindly in an effort to make themselves feel like nothing’s wrong with them. I feel this is extremely destructive as it perpetuates the situation the OP finds herself in: almost 40 and realizing her behavior is counter productive to her own happiness.
I feel this is a huge problem in this country and social media is spreading it across the globe rapidly. However, I honestly don’t think there’s any way to stop it other than to let it run its course. Good for the minority of women who get it while they’re still young enough to identify a good man and stay with him. Bad for everyone else.
As a former 20’s ‘Beta” nice guy who never gave up his morals, turned 30’s ‘Alpha’ because I stayed humble, worked on me and life goals…. I can tell you that women who played around in her 20’s and early 30’s are the last thing good men want to be with. 1. They feel those women don’t deserve the real deal after blowing off the quoteunquote real deal nice guys for so long and 2. have seen self-destructive women enough to know how dangerous they truly are- to themselves and everyone around them.
Now, I’m not saying the OP is definitely that type of woman, but it’s within the realm of possibility that her lost nice guy spent enough time around her to figure out she was/is. If so, he’s not going to want to touch her with a 10 foot pole unless he just wants a piece. If he’s any type of self respecting nice guy then he wouldn’t do that, but even nice guys fall off the wagon from time to time.
I hope that, sooner rather than later, women who learn this so late in life start getting on social-media and try to give a little balance for the younger girls out there who still have time to learn from the mistakes of those who went before them.
Lastly, I’d like to say, by no means is it too late for the OP, there are still good guys out there, plenty of them, and now that she’s begun to figure it out, if she continues down that path, she will find a happy relationship is all about what’s within herself.
So, if you made it this far through my way to wordy post OP, please don’t give up! I am no expert, but I believe you are on the right track and you still have a long lifetime ahead of you for potential happiness.
Best of Luck!
el says
That was a great advice
Kh77 says
I’m in the opposite position, met a guy online, we went out 5 times and he was extremely nice and respectful. We had a lot in common and had fun together. He told me he was dealing with a sudden job loss and couldn’t pursue anything on the fourth time we went out, we left it (I thought) as a wait and see and take things slow, but after the last time we went out (once after that conversation) I never heard from him again and it’s been a month. It was very deflating, I was more attracted to this man because of how attentive he was and seemed a genuinely good guy. But then again a nice guy probably wouldn’t just stop talking to you. On to the next.
danny says
I thought that ALL American women were like that! Thank God for women in the Philippines, as they value family above everything.
TP says
Great analogy Evan. I see women like a used car. After too many miles, time for a new one. Those that come with hi miles are just problems waiting to arise. Those that have been truly cared for are low mileage and rarely are seperated from their signifcant other. The rest….just like a used car lot. Different models and styles but not for me. I still like the new car smell!!
Edgar Jude Odompleh says
Call him and open up to him. Tell him that u messed up and was confused. U have to make urself vulnerable and open to rejection before u will get anywhere.
Anon says
It doesnt take one to Tango. Both the guy and girl must set clearity in the relationship and mutially understand each other.
Angie says
I question if nice guys who get rejected are really dating nice women? Because you attract what you are like in essence. If you’re insecure about yourself–being rejected or about your attributes–youre going to attract an equally insecure person–someone who may not think they deserve you or knows what they want. Niceness doesn’t mean insecurity or being a doormat. It means treating everyone properly including yourself.
I know plenty of nice guys who are married or dating equally nice women. And don’t think people who reject niceness is gender specific. Men are guilty of this as well! Plenty of men let go of good women because they wanted a flashier female or one with an edge. A girl who wasn’t so “nice.”
Fromkin says
Don’t confuse nice=respectful with nice=nun. Guys like the one and not the other. But you make a point about insecurity.
Dale says
Do you mean none or nun?
El says
You are right.
Aurora says
I recently found myself in the same situation, only I was too drunk to remember everything that I said to him to make him stop talking to me. I think what really hurt him was that I walked away and refused to talk to him because I was uncomfortable with the situation. He chased me for quite some time, but it wasn’t until we spent a whole evening together, ironically, hours later we had that argument. Now I’m hoping he will reach out. He won’t take my call or texts so, I think that sometimes you just have to let things play out. Good luck and I hope everything works out in your favor.
Marc says
If he has any self respect at all he’ll forget about you. Why should he – or any guy – lift a finger for a woman who has rejected him? You made a mistake, you lose and live with the consequences. Guys have to do it all the time. I’ve been rejected by women and it hurt – for a second – and then I’ve moved on. That means I’m not taking them back. I hope he feels the same way.
Toby says
This has happened to me (and increasingly as I’ve gotten older). Women must understand that just as they say guys don’t have a right to their attention, it cuts both ways. Men also have a right to step back and say, this is not right for me, I’m not getting a good deal her or I’m being treated badly and I’m not interested. From my experience when I pull away (usually after being mistreated by the girl), the girl cannot tolerate this and is in a frenzy to be with me, after she gave off mixed signals or dissed me just the week before on a date (because she had low interest). I took a girl on an expensive date, and she was bored and made snarky comments to me for instance. The worst is when this behaviour is from an older girl, who is of lower dating value anyway…sigh…she’s acting like she’s doing me a favour. I’m early 30s and can and do date girls in early 20s. I’ve dated an 18 year old in the last year (and she was quite good looking, and she said she likes older guys, me being her first) – the dating experience can and does get better for men, despite what the feminized media tends to say. I couldn’t have pulled the 18 year old when I was 24, but can now that I’m 33. I’ve also heard from guy friends in their early 40s that they can still bag the early 20s girls then – it’s total bs even on Evan’s blog that this is not true it happens for those men who are high status and have kept in shape. Even the average 40s guy can easily bag a good looking early 30s girl, unless he is ugly.
The female readers here need to sober up fast and understand that there are benefits in dating to being a woman and benefits to being a man. Time is not on a woman’s side here. Meanwhile for men, having choice is not that much there, as women are hypergamous and NEVER date on their own level, they want better than themselves in looks and status. Both sexes need to be fair here, but it’s women particularly who have to sober up and be realistic if they want to have a family. I couldn’t care that much if I don’t settle down, now that I’ve reached my 30s and didn’t get there, but I certainly wouldn’t settle down with a 30s girl. Too much danger, little to no benefits sexually. Better to be single and have fun in the intermittent years then be saddled with an unappreciative shrew who will be unsatisfied and divorce you to have your resources (read organised theft). Particularly problematic for me as I have a very high powered career in finance and have larger resources than most even double my age).