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I find younger guys so much more fun and attracting them is easy, both online and off. But it’s difficult finding something deep and long lasting as I know these guys are usually hard wired to find ‘the one’ eventually. And– in most cases–that is not going to be with a woman who is pretty well past childbearing age… Bummer for me!
So do you think it is possible to have a passionate relationship of integrity (by that I mean more than just a romp) when there is a big age difference? I want more than the cougar/toy boy experience. It would be a cliche to write this off as midlife crisis, although I understand you could reach this conclusion. I am an exceptionally vibrant and youthful person for my age and I have a lot of close younger friends, but I really don’t know where to look to find my truly compatible match… Is he actually out there I wonder??
AM
Dear AM,
Thanks for your letter and kind words. I try to be honest first, entertaining second, and nice third, so I’m glad to hear that I’m coming close to my intended goal.
Especially since my reply is not going to be all that nice.
A 30-year-old guy most likely sees you as a story, a fling, a reverse May-December romance that he will look back upon fondly one day when he tells his younger wife the tale of the oldest woman he ever bedded.
The fact is, your letter could have been written by a private client.
No joke.
When I hear on the phone “I’m in my late 40’s. People always think I’m younger because I’m so fit and energetic. I’m just not attracted to men my own age or older,” all I can do is smile and nod, the way you do when your friend asks if she looks fat in her jeans.
Understand: I don’t know you, haven’t seen you, and am not impugning your integrity.
All I’d ask you to do would be to put yourself in my position.
If every single man you met said, “I look great for my age. Women my age just can’t keep up with me. I need to find a woman who is 15-20 years younger who is really on my wavelength,” you would roll your eyes and wonder aloud what kind of delusional pot he was smoking. You’d think, “Dude, get OVER yourself. I mean, yeah, you have your hair and you’re pretty fit, but you don’t look as young as you think. Plus, what could you POSSIBLY have in common with a woman who could virtually be your daughter?”
Or something like that.
So I’m not judging you when you say that you prefer men 15-20 years younger.
I’ll just say to you what I’ve said to men who told me the same thing: who cares?
To your credit, you’ve already identified this flaw in your thinking:
Even if you look as good as you say, most 30-year-old men:
a) Aren’t ready to settle down because they still have more oats to sow.
b) Wouldn’t pick a 48-year-old woman when they could choose a 28-year-old who is probably firmer, more fertile, and has more years left on earth than you do.
Sorry. It’s that honesty thing again. But you already knew the 2 points above.
What you’re not seeing, however, is this:
A 30-year-old guy most likely sees you as a story, a fling, a reverse May-December romance that he will look back upon fondly one day when he tells his younger wife the tale of the oldest woman he ever bedded.
The other blind spot you appear to have is the same one that afflicts all of my clients over the age of 40: narcissism and exceptionalism.
If YOU’RE a fit, youthful, vibrant catch, who is an exception to what 48-year-old women should look like and act like, wouldn’t it stand to reason that there’s also a MAN out there who is ALSO a fit, youthful, vibrant, catch who looks young for his age?
To wit: if YOU’RE a fit, youthful, vibrant catch, who is an exception to what 48-year-old women should look like and act like, wouldn’t it stand to reason that there’s also a MAN out there who is ALSO a fit, youthful, vibrant, catch who looks young for his age?
And wouldn’t it be a shame if that man only thought that he should date women born in the 80’s because all women YOUR age are too old, damaged and boring to keep up?
Damn right it would.
So get off your pedestal and look around. If you’re in the Top 5% of women, then you should have no trouble attracting that rare 5% man who is willing to date a woman his own age.
Hold out for a young’un, and guess what, darlin’?
You’re no different than the shallow men we so roundly decry for age discrimination.
Eve says
I’m sure that’s nice advice but it doesn’t answer her question of whether she can find a younger partner for a relationship not just based on sex. The answer is of course yes but there are of course pitfalls-as in any relationship. Don’t dismiss everyone round your own age as past it & don’t dismass all the younger guys as just looking for a shag.
Rob says
Correct!!! There are guys in their early 30`s such as myself that would actually like to find a woman of an older age to date, get to know and eventually get into a serious relationship with. It all depends on the person you are talking to and what you all are both looking for. I also don’t believe any relationship can be successful if it’s based solely off sex, people catch feelings and one may have stronger feelings than the other and then thats where the trouble starts.
Denise says
Who writes these questions anyway? Good to have confidence, but so many of these letters claim these women are ‘all that and a bag of chips’. Wonder how this comes off when relating to a man?
This woman isn’t divorced yet, maybe it might be better to slow down and get a grip on where she is in her life. No harm in dating all kinds of men and having fun. People who are newly separated do not make for good mates. Separating and divorcing from a marriage or long term relationship is a process, which requires steps and, if done in a constructive way, important lessons are learned. This is no matter how crappy the relationship was. I must admit I was under the same delusion, that I could just start my new life after my husband I decided we weren’t going to married any longer. Now in hindsight, I can see the changes I went through and where I am today is different from where I was 4 years ago.
Diana says
I can understand what AM has shared to an extent. I am fortunate in that I have aged gracefully, and I love to do all kinds of fun activities. But while much younger men have taken an interest in me, I won’t allow myself to go there because I know there’s no future and it’s not what I want. Yet the men that are closer to my age who are available either want someone younger or they rarely interest me. Sometimes it’s because of their appearance, but more so because of their life stories and their emotional health, or lack thereof. (And yes, I know. I have life stories, too.) And true to life, the 60 plus crowd shows a lot of interest, too, but I just can’t seem to move beyond the thought of becoming someone’s nurse or wondering how many people they’ve slept with. As a friend recently said, “Well, the 50 year old wants someone 35, and the 65 year old is too old for you.” True. I just keep looking. 🙂
Ruby says
Whether you are male or female, an 18-year age difference is pretty big. Most people, regardless of age, want someone who is within 5-10 years of their own age. Why does AM’s partner have to be that much younger? I’m around the same age as the OP, also don’t look or act it, and generally date men who are a few years younger, but 15-20 years seems like a stretch.
If she’s not even divorced yet, it sounds like she isn’t ready for something more serious. It’s hard to believe that she is seriously looking for something “deep and long-lasting” with someone so much younger, especially knowing how hard it would be to find that person in the first place. If 40 years drinking lattes on Sunday sounds too permanent at this point, what’s wrong with a fling? Also, if AM has so many close, younger friends, why not ask them to set her up?
Steve says
Evan wrote
The other blind spot you appear to have is the same one that afflicts all of my clients over the age of 40: narcissism and exceptionalism.
Evan, by this do you mean that many people think they are more special than other people in the dating pool and that the rules that apply to other people don’t apply to them personally?
Luxe says
Many of them are lonely, often damaged by failed relationships and looking for someone to share a latte with on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years..
To me, this doesn’t sound like something exclusive to men around the OPs age. When I’ve read online profiles of guys in their 30’s (this is the age group I look in, me being in my late 20s) most of them say or imply that they want sort of companion. And some profiles you can sense a bit of “failed relationships” in those too. So really, I think the mindset of the OP is a little off. This is a universal thing.
Of course the OP has a chance at finding a long lasting good relationship with a younger guy. It’s just that the odds aren’t in her favor if she does that exclusively, which she already seems to know. All you can do is weed out the ones who wants flings faster and open up your dating opens to more quality guys.
Steve says
@Eve #1
IMHO I thought Evan did answer her question and the answer was “not likely”.
Steve says
Younger guys want to hook up with older women for sex. Relationships aren’t likely. There is the subculture gap between age groups getting in the way. Then there is the issue of whether or not he can handle the way his circle of people will view him being seen with a significantly older partner. Additionally many guys will likely be thinking it is fun for now but in ___ years she will be ___ and he will be only____ and does he really want to be stuck with a person that old when he is ___ and could be with a woman who is ____.
Exceptions do happen, but they are exceptions, not the trend for what happens with most people.
Michelle says
that’s a good point you made.
Donna says
I agree with almost everything Evan said…I do think you need to be open to a range of ages – both older and younger – the focus should be on finding the person who is right for you, not how old they are. It goes without saying that the person who is right for you will be able to keep up with you, regardless of how old he is.
The only thing I disagree with is the comment that if you are in the top 5%, then attracting a mate in the top 5% should be easy. Maybe the attracting is easy, but the finding is not. When you are 26 almost everyone is fit and healthy and fairly attractive. As you get older, there are a lucky few who retain all those characteristics, but they are few and far between. Because they are rare, there is nothing easy about finding them.
But, I see AM’s point. I am a 35 year old female, 105lbs, blonde hair, blue eyes and fairly attractive. I’m no Angelina Jolie, but I don’t scare small children, either. I am complimented frequently on my appearance and I keep myself in shape. (Sorry Evan for being one of your typical responders!) I would prefer a man as close to my own age as possible, but have a hard time finding a single man of that age. Which means I get a lot of offers from younger (average 26) and older (average 50) men. Quite frankly I tend to date the younger ones for reasons similar to AM’s — the older ones I have dated either cannot keep up physically, realize they have waited too long to start a family and want me as a baby factory, or want me as a weekend nanny to their kids from prior marriages. You can say a significantly younger man has an agenda for dating an older woman — but older men also have an agenda for dating significantly younger women. The agendas are just different.
So my suggestion to AM would be twofold: first, give guys your age a chance to prove whether or not they can keep up. If you find one who can, don’t discount him on age alone. Second, try expanding your search geographically if you can. I’ve found I have had more luck finding what I want (my age, no kids) by being willing to look beyond the typical 50 mile search range on most online sites.
Steve says
Denise 2
Who writes these questions anyway? Good to have confidence, but so many of these letters claim these women are ‘all that and a bag of chips’. Wonder how this comes off when relating to a man?
Isn’t it a kicker Denise? And women are the ones who vocally complain about men’s inflated egos :).
Just the other day I got into an IM conversation with a woman who gave me the same line as the OP, along the lines of “men my age can’t keep up with me”.
I’m guess that means the women who write this are fitness enthusiasts who do half marathons or they are amphetamine addicts.
Andrea says
This doesn’t answer her question but I have to wonder why there are so many 50 year men and women who really think that they look 30? And as many super fit active baby boomers I see, why do people think that being fit and active makes them so unique? In my fitness classes, I was always the youngest by a good bit. Everyone, including the teachers always seemed to be north of 40 and in amazing shape. Maybe it’s b/c what might come naturally to people has to be worked for more as you age? Orthopedic surgeons are struggling to keep up with older people who want a new knee to do the Iron Man. It’s not just 1 or 2 people who are like that.
A lot of people brag about looking so young online but they are always wrong in my opinion ( say that as a 30 something). My favorite was looking at the picture of someone I’d peg as 45-50 bragging that he knew he looked young b/c until 5 years ago, he was still getting carded at Trader Joes. Yeah, well, my local Trader Joes (and several other stores) had signs that they carded anyone that they thought was 40 or under. So in his case, they had him just right and stopped carding him by his 40th birthday. Getting carded does not mean you look 21. It just is policy in some places that unless you have your grandkids with you, they want to see ID.
I think that the best answer is that she might find a younger man who is willing to forgo having natural children to marry her but just like anyone who is dating out of their age range(or any other “range”), the percentage of people who are willing to do that is going to be small. And she might find someone who will stay married to her until she really starts to look like an old lady.
Seriously, there have to be more fit 45-50 year olds who actually do want a woman their age than 30 somethings who want a 50 year old (although true, many men will try and fail to get younger women), but there are still probably more men in the 40+ crowd who would be willing to go for her. And seriously, why SO young? Lots of men still look GREAT at 40 and are super fit and active.
Anyone who is so convinced that they look so much younger really should spend time in a crowd of people who are really that age. A “young” looking 48 year old will totally stand out in a crowd of 30 year olds, and I don’t care how well you’ve taken care of yourself. Hang out with a bunch of business school students, who are all about 30 and see if anyone really falls for that. If you think you look like a college student, hang out with some undergrads or med or law students, who are usually just a couple of years out. In my business school, the MBAs sometimes crowded into the college bar and the comments you heard were “Why are there so many old guys here tonight?” And they were saying that about a bunch of people who on average were 29-30.
I think that Helen Mirren and Susan Sarandon look smashing and could both pull younger boyfriends but let’s not pretend that they still look 40 either. Why isn’t anyone okay just saying that they are a hot X year old?
I think that anyone’s hot much older partner might find themselves getting dumped when what is left of the bloom finally falls off the rose. Seriously, you are bound to age a lot more between 50 and 60 than your boytoy does between 30 and 40, and since men are so visual, that is bound to matter sooner or later. Many public couples wind up in that situation once the lady is unable to maintain her “hotness.”
What is important to remember is that the advice Evan gives is always reflective of the most likely scenario. You might have beat the odds, but it still makes it the exception and not the rule.
Bren says
I only read this because… I don’t want to be anyone’s cougar! I have men 15 to 20 years younger contacting me…. Flattered at first glance…I now find it almost unflattering wondering what their motives are….
While many attractive men my own age are looking for 20 years younger…I have to wonder if they have grown enough that I would even want them in my life! Their delusions of grandeur… may make them emotionally unavailable… They may be constantly seeking a thrill…
However slim the pool may be…either direction… I agree with Evan…it is so very worth holding out for that man who may be near our age give or take a few years…who feel youthful in ways we might also feel…and ready to love and enjoy life together….just as we are!
Denise says
#10 Steve
LOL
I know of ONE woman who I think NO ONE can keep up with, she’s the only one I’ve known in my whole life. She has to be doing something every minute of every day–even sleeping is not conducive to resting and doing nothing–and I am not exaggerating either. God love her on where she gets this energy, and she’s 54. When my friend and I spend time with her, we want to know when cocktail time is! 🙂
For those women that are ‘older’, we have the benefit of wisdom, maturity and have gotten over our sexual/body hangups. No wonder the young men want us! I am at the place in my life where I do not want to teach any man anything in a big picture way–not how to be a man, not how to be a good lover, not how women work (as close as a man is to figuring it out!).
AndThatsWhyYoureSingle says
Seriously, there have to be more fit 45-50 year olds who actually do want a woman their age,,,
There are plenty of attractive 45 + men and women out there who would make great partners and seek people their own age. Unfortunately there are too many people who have distorted definitions and perceptions of themselves and cling desperately to their youth. The OP likely enjoys the attention from younger men because she wants to feel young. She convinces herself that these men are genuinely interested in her and what she has to offer. Some are. Most aren’t. Most of the attention from these men is based purely on their desire to have sex with an “older woman” so, as Evan said, they have a story to tell to their bros over beers. By dating someone her age that would be an admission that she is no longer 30. She doesn’t want to face that yet. Which is why, I’ll bet, she takes part in activities that are typically associated with “young” people and has younger friends. It’s not about not being able to relate to people her age. It’s denial and very much a mid-life crisis.
Taylor says
True, but let’s face it, quite a few don’t. Someone who is active and stays fit in their 40s maybe have trouble finding suitable companion their own age due to the fact that too many don’t stay active. So while it would be a good idea to still open to people her age, there’s nothing wrong with being open to younger ones if she has more in common with them. I have one good friend that’s about 7 years older and another that’s about 12 years younger, and talking with them doesn’t feel awkward at all. While age difference does matter to an extent, so does shared interests and hobbies.
Steve says
@Andrea #11
I think one of the frequent blunders of online profiles is telling people that you look younger than you are. If it is true, you can let them decide it from your pictures and meeting you. If it is not true, you just look out of touch bringing it up.
BeenThruTheWars says
I was 44, had just ended a 9-month relationship and was back on the dating scene again. I had Evan help me with my profile and set out to date men around my own age or older. Guess what? They didn’t want me. They wanted someone way younger. Don’t know if it was to have kids with or what, but that was my reality. The men who actively sought me out online, and at my dating service? Were 28-38. I put “no” in my profile in response to the “Do you wish to have children?” question, and every man who was ambivalent about having kids (or actively did not want them) was looking to take me out.
At first, it was a bit disconcerting — but I decided to just go with it. What the heck. My friends teased me about being a cradle robber, and I made my share of cougar jokes. But I found myself having a great time. There are mature and immature men in all age ranges! Dating a 45-year-old doesn’t mean you’ll get a grownup, and dating a 35-year-old doesn’t mean you’ll get a kid.
The man who pursued me with the most enthusiasm was kind of an old soul in a lot of ways. He was on bended knee, proposing, six months after our first date… and he was 33 to my 44. We’ll celebrate our fifth wedding anniversary on January 1, and couldn’t be happier. He’s 39, and I recently turned 50. So what? He would still have been the right guy for me if he were 26, 36, 46 or 56. Age truly is “just a number” under many (though not all) circumstances.
So in answer to the letter writer — yes, it’s more than possible to find a real relationship with a man in his 30s when you’re in your 40s. However, instead of marketing yourself as “young for my age! Really!! Honest!” how about marketing yourself instead as not interested in having kids, in no big hurry to marry again, just looking for companionship and intelligent conversation and an active friendship, and see what happens?
My husband had plenty of opportunities to date hot women younger than himself, but he didn’t want to because in that age range he found they were DESPERATE to get married and have babies right this second! It would make him run for the hills. He told me when we were dating: “I brag to all my friends about you. You’re the first woman it was ever totally my idea to be with and pursue. You don’t need a man, but you choose to be with me. You don’t need to be supported emotionally or financially. Plus, you don’t want kids and neither do I.” All those things were huge to him, and we clicked accordingly. I’m a catch despite my average looks — bright, accomplished, and easy to be with — but instead of chasing after the men I thought I wanted, I put myself out there and let the men who wanted ME gather. It was pleasantly surprising who did. And I just picked.
Angel says
Love this response thank you!
Monica says
I think there is like a “collective belief” about women >40 and this story it’s a great example that it doesn’t have to be this way! Not all people of similar age are looking for the same and sometimes those of different age ranges find each other and are very happy.
Such a lovely story, BeenTrueTheWars!
“Life really does begin at 40. Up until then, you are just doing research.” 😉
-Carl G. Jung.
Karl R says
AM asked: (original post)
“So do you think it is possible to have a passionate relationship of integrity (by that I mean more than just a romp) when there is a big age difference?”
My girlfriend is 16 years older than me. We’ve been dating for 16 months, and we both see this as the beginning of a permanent relationship.
A few years earlier, I dated a woman 11 years younger than me. Our relationship ended because she wanted lots of kids, and I wanted none. If it wasn’t for that, we might still be together.
It is possible.
AM said: (original post)
“I am not attracted to men my own age. I love guys who are around the 30 year old mark. […] single guys my own age either cannot match my physical energy and sheer enthusiasm for life”
I’m with Evan. You need to get over yourself.
Your physical energy level can’t be as high as you believe. If it was, even the 30 year olds wouldn’t be keeping up with you either.
I’ve dated women 11 years younger, 16 years older, and every age in between. None of them have kept up with me. If I added “comparable energy level” to my more important criteria, I would be dateless. (The ex-girlfriend who came closest to my energy level was 9 years older than me.)
Instead, I date women who can keep up with me much of the time, and don’t mind that I’m out staying busy when they need a break.
There are women out there who meet or exceed my energy level, but few enough that I’d need to solely choose dates based on that quality if I wanted to date them regularly. It’s just not that important to me. I’d rather be with someone who is fun, unconditionally accepting, sweet, etc.
AM says
Firstly thanks Evan for your honest, as always, response. Of course I knew you would say all that…but narcissism and exceptionalism..? Judgmental words.. maybe an ounce of truth..but I think the barriers are down these days and age demographics are blurred. It doesn’t have to be the reflection of a major personality disorder!
Secondly Denise, I wrote my own question without a single edit from Evan. And I don’t need to sell myself to younger guys, I’m just very comfortable in my own skin and with my sexuality and they happen to find me attractive. And there are a lot of younger men who actually prefer the company of older women both emotionally and sexually. I have been living apart from my husband for 18 months now and both he and I have strived very hard to maintain our friendship and our business. Not for you to assume it wasn’t done constructively or that important (and painful) lessons haven’t been learned. I have a very positive and centered grip on my life, thank you anyway! And I don’t have an inflated ego, nor do I think for a minute that I look 30! It’s not so much about physical age as mentality and energy.
Steve, Evan does mean that, but I’m afraid there are people out here who don’t fit the norm and that’s without trying too hard. Of course I wish I could find my equal and opposite in my own age group! And I am open to that, but frankly any guy that hot and together, of my own age, is probably going to be the property of some grateful wife! OR he will be hotly pursued by many women and doesn’t need to go online. In addition to that, I’m a performer in the world of music theatre which is the gayest community on this planet!! (beautiful though they may be..!) It is virtually impossible to meet a straight single man at work..(my gorgeous younger female colleagues will attest to this). And yes of course younger men are looking for sex. So am I! But with some depth and commitment even if it’s not sharing sub-cultures all the time, (if ever).
Thank you Diana, Eve and Donna for ‘getting’ it. And Ruby- you are right, I’m probably not up for another ‘marriage’ yet. Bren – It’s hard to hold out (for years?) for the absolutely ideal man when you need to express yourself sexually.
And yet, since writing that letter I have been involved with a beautiful man, who is 20 years younger and with whom I have a rather special relationship. Realistically it’s not going to last forever, I know that. And I know that I am aging faster than him at this stage…tricky..(but fun, and meaningful all the same!). Meanwhile, I’m still hoping that the ‘right’ man will show up…which gets back to my original question..where is he? Because (so far) he ain’t online.
AM says
BeenThruTheWars – You are A GEM.
Evan Marc Katz says
Actually, AM, while BeenThruTheWars is a favorite and a friend, she’s only “a gem” because told you want you want to hear. Truth is, not only are most 30 year olds not interested in women in their late 40’s, but they’re not good relationship bets because they’re immature, building their careers, and have lots more oats to sow. The exceptions do not disprove the rule. Proceed at your own risk.
AM says
Of course you are right but you still haven’t answered my question..a really amazing hot successful man, who’s my age and not desperate/lonely/unhappy/inexperienced with women/in need of a child minder/in need of a movie companion.. is not, in my experience online. So where is he to be found..?
Andrea says
AM, I think that everyone “gets” it. The point is that it seems that in the dating world, the most likely scenario is that likes attract likes(unlike magnets). Anyone who exclusively chases after something that they are not is going to have a harder time of it. Truthfully, anyone who is an outlier will have a harder time of it. Do you exclude men your age from your search? Or do they just fail to approach you online or respond if you write to them? That makes a difference.
I think that based on what you are looking for, you need to keep all doors open. Too bad Evan can’t match you up with one of those male clients who insists that he’s too young for women his own age!
To me, that’s the part that sounds a bit over the top. I don’t care how energetic you are, there are some SERIOUS differences in how people socialize at different times of life. Maybe you are meeting more mature 30 years olds, but as I mentioned, having just left a graduate program populated by mostly 30 year olds, I can’t imagine anyone who is 50 being into that or being able to hang in that way. To me, “keeping up” means so much more than physical activity or sex. As I mentioned, I’ve seen many people your age who could run circles around people 10-15 years younger, but it would just seem that some aspects of socializing would be a bit odd and they just wouldn’t fit in.
I think you can find what you want, but it’s not going to ever be like it would be if you were 25 looking for a 30 year old, or 30 looking for a 30 year old. A hot 50 year old isn’t going to get as many responses, either from men your own age, or from men who are loads younger as you would have gotten 20 years ago. You are looking for a veritable needle in the haystack, so who knows if that will happen quickly or slowly. I guess what I and maybe some other people don’t get is that you sound surprised that it hasn’t happened easily. How could it, when so many men will list cut off ages as being their own minus 10 years, a 10 year range that is 5 years YOUNGER than their current age, or perhaps a year or two older but 10-15 years younger? What do you have listed? B/c I totally judge men who are 40 who will list 21-39 as their preferred range(b/c if you are doing it b/c you want kids, I find it presumptuous that you’d expect someone to be okay being your broodmare), and secretly give points to people who at least put themselves in the middle of their stated range.
As your profile is basically your own personal marketing brochure, I think that if you are only listing really young men then your profile can’t help but scream COUGAR. So at least list men your own age so that isn’t how you are marketing yourself. I think all of the talk about being comfortable with your sexuality also comes across as cougar, which doesn’t sound like what you want based on your letter. (Have you seen the SNL skit Cougar Den-a good tool to show you exactly what not to do and say if you want to be taking seriously by younger suitors; it is parody but there is clearly some truth to it).
My advice to anyone who is older who wants more than a roll in the hay with someone older. Don’t brag about how hip, young, energetic, or good in bed you are. B/c people who are really that age are easily hipper, more energetic (for partying at least), really are younger, and I think most people figure things out during their 20’s and 30’s and don’t need to turn to someone 20 years older to be satisfied.
I do think that there is something about wanting to live vicariously through someone else’s youth as you move further away from your own. I think it might be why a lot of 30 something women ignoring messages from younger 20 somethings. I mean seriously, do just the 40 and 50 somethings think that they are the only ones being virtually hit on by young guys? My guess is that they try and get largely ignored by the 30 somethings(although I think newly divorced, long married women might go for them). No one has ever said anything inappropriate, but something about the messages always makes me think that they believe older women are freaks.
I’ve been “approached” by young to mid 20 somethings, and I’m in my 30’s and think no way. I guess I’m just not old enough to feel that men my own age lack vigor or stamina(and they are plenty attractive and seem to finally be grown up men), nor do I need any of the “youthful energy” that these young guys have, or expect to find a 25 year old who has the maturity of a man 10 years older(b/c again, the 30-40 year old wrappers look just fine). It sounds like you want a 50 year old in a 30 year old wrapping.
So enjoy your “special” time with your young friend and I hope you find what you are looking for, hopefully in a man closer to your age who won’t get bored and move on.
Denise says
I’m highly attractive, hot even!, fit, fun, feminine and not clingy. I’m a really good catch!!
If you read more letters coming into Evan that he’s kind enough to answer, there is a similar theme. “I’m the best thing since sliced bread, what’s wrong with everyone else?”
As I said in my post, it’s great to be confident, IMO, this type of language I see over and over isn’t confidence.
I don’t see where I said you said you looked like you were 30.
it seems, single guys my own age either cannot match my physical energy and sheer enthusiasm for life or they are taken already! Many of them are lonely, often damaged by failed relationships and looking for someone to share a latte with on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years
Big assumption here about a lot of men, although I can definitely identify with the ‘taken already’ point.
But it’s difficult finding something deep and long lasting as I know these guys are usually hard wired to find ‘the one’ eventually
Okay, so if you’re separated from your husband and you’re looking to have fun and date around (which is what I said in my post), then go for any man to learn and have fun. But your original post said you’re looking for something ‘deep and long lasting’? Not sure which it is then.
I have been living apart from my husband for 18 months now and both he and I have strived very hard to maintain our friendship and our business. Not for you to assume it wasn’t done constructively or that important (and painful) lessons haven’t been learned. I have a very positive and centered grip on my life
Ditto. Been down that path, and it feels like you’re a little defensive. We’re probably similar personality types–I didn’t mean in any way to say you were a basket case in a corner or being a nutcase either. In regard to ‘constructive’–I was referring to the process of becoming a single person again as a process, as opposed to going from a marriage to a heavy relationship, without that grieving and exploratory time. The reality is a separated person been part of a ‘committed’ couple for X amount of time. Both people shared a life together, witnessed each other’s life, built a future together, probably have friends together, routines, rituals, spend time with family–all or some of these things. It takes time to find out who you are as your own person again (the generic you by the way, not you specifically). To create your own life as a single woman (not separated, but divorced and no longer married). Sorry you took offense to me expressing what my learning experience has been. I separated in my early 40’s after a 15 year marriage and two kids–I don’t think I’m that unique. The details are different, but the underlying experiences of all people who are going through a divorce are similar-In my Opinion of course.
And before you think I’m different because I couldn’t or don’t attract men, I have dated a lot since my separation and divorce. I’ve met men on line, I’ve met men organically. I’ve had a couple of longer term relationships (both I learned a ton from), I’ve had friends with benefits relationships. I specifically stay away from younger men because of what I already mentioned; that’s my PREFERENCE though.
Who the heck knows where life will take us and who we will find attractive at a particular time in life? Like the examples above, often times, significant age differences aren’t a factor. I agree with Evan though since that seems to sound more like reality. Frankly, these may be the types of ‘relationships’ that fit your life at this point in time (no real committment, he’s not going to ‘fall hard’ more than likely, etc.), maybe that’s why you are attracted to younger men? Sounds like a good deal for now, if you can keep your emotional wits about you.
Evan Marc Katz says
@AM – The men you’re looking for are online. You’re either not attracting them or not giving them a chance because of your prejudices. If you’re serious about making online dating into a more fruitful endeavor, please try Finding the One Online. It will make a difference for you, guaranteed.
Taylor says
But online dating isn’t for everyone. I did online dating about 6 years, while I did make plenty of mistakes doing, you have frustratingly patient at times. Most women I talk to I never meet, or sometimes if I did meet them, it often too months. I don’t know if women or more on guard, because I actually made improvements, or maybe something I don’t know about, but getting people to talk back or even meet in person. And no I’m not looking for advice on online dating. I put online dating behind, and not going back anytime at least within the next few years. But people who advocate for online dating really to quit telling people “it only takes one.” Because can you use that line to argue for just about anything, and its more annoying to hear than helpful when you gone through a lot of them with no success. It’s about as comforting as telling a victim of tragedy or illness that its God’s Plan.
Zann says
AM, call me dense, but I just don’t see what your question is. You say you really are “a catch” and quite above the norm in terms of hotness and energy. Younger men are attracted to you and you like to hang with them because they can match you in zest for life and physical prowess. Where’s the problem?
Ohhhhhhh, they’re not interested in anything more in depth or long-lasting? You wish you could have the younger 6-pack, ambitious dude who is also wise, committed, cultured, and devoted? Maybe even mature?
You, me, and about a billion other smart, sexy, intelligent women. Sadly, though, most of us have to settle for men a tad less ideal. Sometimes they even turn out to be decent mates, because they share a mutual history with us…for instance, they remember when phones had a cord and Neil Young was….young. Yes, I know I’m dating myself, but I assure you, in my age group I am just as unique and wonderful as you are. And so are a whole bunch of other women.
We are all flattered when younger men pursue us. It’s just that some of us realize it means two things: you’re holding up well and they’re horny. Stimulating, energetic men your age are out there. Consider the possibility that either you can’t get past what you see as physical deficits in order to get to know them better, or you are putting them off with your superior attitude and sense of entitlement.
Lucia says
Evan,
I usually agree with everything you say, but as a Cougar Expert I obviously don’t agree on this one. There are plenty of guys in their 20s and 30s on my Facebook & Twitter pages who have absolutely no interest in ever dating women their age or younger. They are not interested in the drama and want someone more mature, so they have no problem dating women 10-15 years older.
Although for some men it may just be about sex, I hear from “Cougar couples” all over the world who are in serious relationships and are very happy.
Just because it may not be the norm, doesn’t mean it can’t work. The dating/relationship landscape is changing. Attraction doesn’t have an age limit.
Kathleen says
Lucia 25
I agree with you based on my last 6 years of being single and dating.
I didnt have children and Im often targeted by younger men who are certain they dont want children or to be pressured about it. They also seem interested in a woman who is more secure and interesting from a lifetime of experiences.
Also Anthropolgist Helen Fisher PHD makes a compelling case for a growing trend of younger men /older women .
Men of older generations, above 50 are from an era where they felt entitled to younger women. Younger generations of men dont seem as ageist
I do love Evan s advice about looking for someone my age like me but I havent found that yet
sandra.tampa says
IMHO, AM – needs some compassion – not our judgment. She is actually asking for permission because she is confused – but although she wants to elicit a response to her logical “reasons” for considering this type of relationship–her gut knows that although a fling with a 30 yr old man may be tempting – inherently it poses too much risk of loss to be a healthy choice for her. And, I venture that it is a way to avoid what she really needs at this time in her life.
She does not need a fling with a 30 year old man with it’s inherent pitfalls of embarrassment and eventual loss, (Las Vegas odds; a sucker’s bet.) I would rather see her decide to enter into some type of therapy; guided (or not) and/or spiritual self discovery, at this time.
Just posing the question here indicates to me that she is seeking direction. Asking and seeking before taking action seems to me to be a good thing.
Evan I really like your blog and usually your advice – but in this case – Criticizing AM for being shallow does not really help.
Steve says
AM #18 wrote
Firstly thanks Evan for your honest, as always, response. Of course I knew you would say all that…but narcissism and exceptionalism..? Judgmental words.. maybe an ounce of truth..but I think the barriers are down these days and age demographics are blurred. It doesn’t have to be the reflection of a major personality disorder!
I have a friend who has been a shrink for about 30 years. She isn’t allowed to use the “N word” around me. No, not THAT “N word”. She isn’t allowed to use the word “narcissist”. After 30 years of helping people she is convinced that there is an epidemic of narcissism in the U.S.. LOL, every other person gets labeled as a “narcissist!” with her in a conversation without our special rule.
Narcissism the neurosis that is. Apparently in addition to the personality disorder there is a neurosis by the same name. Psychology is pretty sloppy about defining terms. I’ve Googled around trying to get a sense of what it means. It is not just a synonym for an ego manic. One of the more interesting definitions is that it means someone who thinks they are an exception to the rules for how reality works. Like they are the lottery ticket winner Evan mentions among his clients who think they will find a 20 something guy who is good looking, intelligent, 100% put together and who is interested in an LTR with a middleaged woman when he has many other options. No disrespect meant AM. I have my things too.
You can see this type of narcissism reflected in popular movies. The smart ass who goofs for years, insults people, yet still becomes a success by the end of the movie because there is something special about him, just for being him, that enables him to transcend the rules everyone else has to work with.
Steve says
AM
Not to put another straw into your camel’s sack, but you wrote that you work in the entertainment industry. I know that tends not to be a 9 – 5 job and that it has its own subculture. Would the guy for you also have to be a performer? Could you relate to a guy who works an ordinary job and/or find him interesting? Are there conflicts between non-performing partners and performing partners?
Steve says
Evan Marc Katz # 20
Actually, AM, while BeenThruTheWars is a favorite and a friend, she’s only “a gem” because told you want you want to hear.
AM in addition to Evan’s point of BTTW having won the lottery, her lucky exception to the rule may be even less evidence that there is a such a lucky exception waiting for you ( as another single person I hope you find fim ). BTTW’s man is an exception that is rare enough. With your laundry list of must haves and must-not haves such a rare exception as BTTW’s guy might not have been suitable for you either. My god, he could have been a well put together guy who works an ordinary job and who likes to go to movies in his spare time!
No offense meant, I hope you find your knight in shining armour.
Evan isn’t going to tell you how, because he doesn’t believe there is a “how” for generating anomalies.
Maybe you can start your search by asking yourself, if you were such a man, where would you be and what would you be doing?
Good luck
Steve says
@Andrea post #22
You wrote an interesting post, I’m glad I suppressed my “wall of text phobia” and read it. At your age younger men aren’t “men”, most of them are still boys. I 100% agree with your point that the age groups socialize differently and that “group jumpers” have a harder time fitting in. I’ve felt that divide when I’ve dated women in their late 20s.
I also thought your advice to AM to look at her profile for cross purpose messages was insightful. Particularly the bit about not listing how she is comfortable with her sexuality. I would have found that odd reading it too. I’ve had my sexuality since I’ve been about 12 so I would find such a statement from someone in their 40s to be a bit odd, unless they just came out as gay.
Denise says
@Lucia 26
That’s probably true in regard to DATING. However, what happens when they want to settle down and for a lot of people, start to have a family. More than likely, they are not going to choose the woman is almost 50 to go down that path.
As I wrote earlier: For those women that are ‘older’, we have the benefit of wisdom, maturity and have gotten over our sexual/body hangups. No wonder the young men want us!
@Sandra.tampa #27
I agree Sandra, which is evident in her posts. She wants to settle down and find Mr. Right, but recognizes that probably won’t be with a man 20 years her junior, although that’s the only men she wants to date. All of this and she’s not divorced yet.
Sometimes, we just have to do what we have to do at the point we are in our life. And learn from it. I would bet that eventually AM will get to the point where she’ll better be able to crystalize what she really wants from a relationship and from life.
BeenThruTheWars says
@Evan — purely semantics — but I didn’t (set out to) tell AM what she wanted to hear. I shared my own experience, and advised that she reconsider her marketing approach so it was more realistic and age-neutral. It’s true that AM may have only “heard only what she wanted to hear,” but that I have no control over. 🙂
The point I apparently didn’t get across strongly enough (my bad) is that this overemphasis on a man’s youth and “hotness” is not germane to finding a deeper, lasting relationship. Those are the appropriate criteria when one is looking for a fling or a trophy to display, not a wife/husband. I didn’t go out looking for a younger guy, but that’s who sought me out because of what I had to offer that women their age didn’t (a child-free lifestyle, freedom from financial burdens, intelligent conversation, grownup companionship, etc.) Nowhere in my dating profile did I mention looks, sexual prowess, fitness/energy level, or anything of that nature either in describing myself or the type of man I was looking for. I would’ve happily chosen a guy my own age or older I clicked with on all cylinders, but that’s not who showed up.
Yes, you need to be sexually compatible with your mate. However, “hotness” is ideally a state of mutual attraction, regardless of looks, age, or fitness level. I would’ve been a great fit with my own husband no matter how old he was (which I did state). I didn’t go out seeking a younger guy. That’s who showed up (much to my consternation at first). I was looking for someone with whom I clicked and connected on a head and heart level. Looks are fleeting, and after forty it’s “patch, patch, patch” for just about everyone.
BeenThruTheWars says
Re the “winning the lottery” comment — I would feel that way about my husband regardless of how old he is. His age is immaterial to me, as mine is to him (although he is envious that I remember watching The Beatles live on Ed Sullivan). It’s a nice plus in some ways; actuarially, for instance. With a 10 year age gap, it’s less likely that he’ll die before me and I’ll have to spend my final years alone. However, it’s just icing on a much more substantial cake.
Karl R says
AM said: (#18)
“there are people out here who don’t fit the norm and that’s without trying too hard.”
Match.com statistics for women aged 43 to 48 within 10 miles of my home (378 women):
23% are slender
24% are athletic and toned
51% exercise 3 to 4 times per week
14% exercise 5 or more times per week
33% have a bachelors degree
25% have a higher degree
That’s your competition. If I set my search filters for a woman who is older, educated and in good shape, I’ll get a couple hundred of them. And I’m in a city that falls far below the median in health and education.
If you want to stand out above the online norm, you’ll have to do something more than be attractive, enthusiastic and energetic.
AM said: (#18)
“Of course I wish I could find my equal and opposite in my own age group! And I am open to that, but frankly any guy that hot and together, of my own age, is probably going to be the property of some grateful wife! OR he will be hotly pursued by many women and doesn’t need to go online.”
You’re absolutely right. Just like any woman your age who is your equal will be married to a grateful husband -or- she will be pursued by so many men that she won’t need to go online.
There seems to be a flaw with that line of reasoning. If you’re hot and together, and you’re not married, and you’re online … why wouldn’t men find themselves in the exact same situation?
AM said: (#18)
“I’m just very comfortable in my own skin and with my sexuality”
“It’s hard to hold out (for years?) for the absolutely ideal man when you need to express yourself sexually.”
“And yes of course younger men are looking for sex. So am I!”
“there are a lot of younger men who actually prefer the company of older women both emotionally and sexually.”
Let’s talk about the elephant in the living room. Based on your age and your choice of words, men younger than you (like me) are likely to assume that you’re in perimenopause, your libido is in high gear, and you’re a great candidate for a relationship with lots of sex.
Your emotional maturity isn’t being considered in this decision making process. As long as you’re “not crazy,” that’s good enough.
Furthermore, you’d like a man who’s interested in a serious, long-term relationship. Those men are avoiding you. You’re not legally ready for the kind of relationship those men want until you’re divorced. Even then, they’ll be taking a chance as to whether you’ll be emotionally ready.
You’ve put yourself in a situation where you’re only attracting the men who want a fling. You can’t go anywhere to change that. You’ll have to change yourself.
Taylor says
She doesn’t need a divorce to be legally ready for a relationship. There are plenty of people who start dating before they are divorced due how long it takes in some situations. Legally ready makes no sense at all.
Goldie says
I think it is one heck of an assumption to say that men in their 40s are only interested in “sharing a latte on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years”… I for one feel the need to step up and defend the guys of my generation 🙂 Just like in any other age group, there is a huge variety. Just like AM, or myself, wouldn’t want to be lumped in together with “all women in their 40s”, neither would those men. Guys who believe that life is a constant growing and learning process do exist. If they didn’t, then what’s the point in getting together with a 30-year-old anyway? he’ll just turn into another couch potato in ten years.
I’m not without hang-ups myself – mine is that I prefer men in my own age group and am pretty wary of anyone else, be it a 30-year-old or a 50-year-old. Something I need to work on, I guess 🙂 If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this blog, it’s that external qualities don’t matter as much in a relationship. It matters infinitely more whether the person is in your karass than whether he’s in your granfalloon. (Sorry, just finished re-reading Cat’s Cradle and cannot get these terms out of my head.)
Ruby says
Sure, the world of dating is opening up more and more. And who hasn’t been influenced by the Demi/Ashton phenomenon? But my experience, at least from online dating, is that most younger guys aren’t looking for a serious relationship with anyone. And many older men are the same. Most younger men who have contacted me online have been at least 20 years younger, just a bit too young, in my book, even though, yes, they are very cute and sweet. I’ve had little interest from 30-somethings, but I’m also over 45, which seems to be a cut-off point for many men. The 30-somethings are probably getting ready to start their own families. I’ve happily dated men around my age and up to 5-11 years younger, though.
I really feel that the younger a man is, the more open he is to dating an older woman, because he doesn’t have any issues about his own youth. But as men get older, midlife crisis takes over, and they want a younger woman who makes them feel young. Truth be told, the younger men I’ve dated make me feel younger as well, though I’ve met a few older men who have been quite youthful and attractive. Keep an open mind about every man you encounter, is what I’d advise.
Kaitlyn says
I have been living apart from my husband for 18 months now
Honestly, AM, if you are still married and are living apart from your husband I think the FIRST thing you should be doing is evaluating whether you want to stay in your marriage or get a divorce. If you want to find a relationship with another man it is only fair to that person that you are fully OUT of your marriage.
Until you do that, you really are NOT available for anything more than a “fling”. Sorry if that’s blunt…but you are soliciting advice on dating and finding more than a “fling” but you state that you are living apart from your HUSBAND which indicates that you are not fully available for ANY other man, regardless of his age.
Speed says
@AM
You can write me off as a typical “boring guy over 40” but what’s wrong with “sharing a Sunday latte for the next 40 years?” In my opinion, being an adult means recognizing life has a large degree of boredom and routine, interspersed with moments of something special.
Steve says
Lucia #26 wrote
Although for some men it may just be about sex, I hear from “Cougar couples” all over the world who are in serious relationships and are very happy.
That doesn’t mean that it isn’t an exceptionally rare situation to the point where it might not be worth pursuing for a woman interested in finding a happy LTR while she can still walk unassisted.
If I go “all over the world” I can probably fill a convention hall of left handed black jewish lesbians who voted for Bush. That doesn’t mean that demographic is plentiful in the dating scene and that any left handed jewish lesbian has a realistic shot of finding someone just like herself for an LTR.
Steve says
Karl, post #35. Be sure to blow some air on those smoking guns to cool them down 🙂 Dang!
Kathe says
Here’s a tip: what’s good for the gander is good for the goose. Many middle-aged women don’t want to date men the same age or older because their perceptions of women have been frozen in time. Forget accomplishments, careers. or an exciting life — those guys will just see you as the woman who should defer to him and pick his socks off the floor.
I’ve dated men more than 10 years younger than myself — didn’t last but neither did the other relationships with men in the same age bracket. (And that’s because I wasn’t looking long-term.) EMK is looking at the players? OK, but don’t assume older women want the players either.
The last time I said I wanted to date younger men, one prospective dating advisor said, “Oh, no, here we go again.” That’s support we can all do without.
SS says
@Speed 39:
I guess I’m a boring old woman at age 33, but I’d like nothing better to have a latte with my husband every Sunday morning for the next 40 years! That doesn’t mean we won’t enjoy physical activities as well, but if I’ve learned anything in my young, but growing older age, it’s that the little, quiet and tender moments like sharing a cup of coffee or watching the sunrise together are some of the most treasured and poignant parts of a committed relationship. Why does everything always have to be about being on the go or seeing how many activities one can do, or always having energy to burn? Whatever happened to quiet, contemplative moments where all a person has is the company of another… and enjoying each other is much more valuable than always having some activity to serve as a distraction or as a reason to spend time together?
@Andrea 11
I can relate to this. I was one of those people who was often told how young I looked, how I had so much energy, how I didn’t seem to be the age that I was, etc… and it started to go to my head. I’d dress like a 19-21 year old, spend time with them and revel in a second decade of being a 20-something.
Until one day, I looked around and noticed that I was completely different than those I deemed to be my peers — in mentality and probably in looks too. Whether I looked younger in age or not, I WAS a 30-something. I wasn’t fooling anyone with the Aeropostale and Hollister gear. My bearing and demeanor came off much differently and I started to feel that I stood out like a sore thumb, like the woman that was trying too hard.
I finally cleaned out my closet and dumped all of the junior-sized clothing, bought a more mature (but still fashionable) wardrobe and started spending time with my true peer group… and stopped looking for younger men, especially considering that I wanted a commitment.
Sometimes, it’s important for us to do some self-evaluation and embrace our age (whatever it might be). We can look great for our age and have a lot of energy for someone our age, but we ARE the product of the number of years we’ve spent on this earth. Acting like we aren’t is simply denial.
AM says
Glad to see I’ve been able to entertain here..!
Karl..odd how you see an open discussion about sex as an elephant in the room..
Steve I would prefer a man who is not a performer. I happen love geeky nerds for instance, such a relief from talking ‘show’ shop.
Thanks all for your advice about my online profile but I don’t recall sharing it on this site so.. In fact there is no mention of fitness, or elephants and I have no limits on age.
As a postscript, I would love to hear the European version of this conversation..
Bren says
Was married a man 8 years younger… Felt like a story book romance… Thought it was the most wonderful relationship in the world… for 12 years…
Then he reached his mid life crisis phase and decided he just fell out of love… Yep…thinks I’m still beautiful…just not in love anymore…. Now 48 and 56….He’s riding off into the sunset with his bit younger biker chick girlfriend… and shopping at the teen clothing stores….
Never really knew he’d possibly have a midlife crisis…or I might have been a bit more careful….
Yep.. I want a man that is somewhere near my age….. give or take a few years…
Luxe says
Steve.. LOL.. you crack me up!
It kinda sounds like AM is just chasing something that is new and exciting. And that happens to be the younger guys right now. And the way she writes, even though she says she wants a serious relationship, it doesn’t sound like it at the same time.
Seriously, even a younger guy will get into a “routine” once he’s been in a LTR. He may not want to drink lattes every sunday for the next 40 years, but it could be that he just wants to watch [insert sports programming] while drinking beer every sunday for X years. You get the idea. It’s all the same to me.
JB says
@Karl R #35 “you’re not legally ready for that kind of relationship until you’re divorced”
Karl is right.I love dating separated women because they can’t ask anything from me.You know why? THEY’RE STILL MARRIED !!! I would laugh if any one of them regardless of their age and energy level asked me anything about a deep/serious relationship.I would tell them and in fact have said these exact words,”get out of the one you’re in first and take some time to figure out who the “single” you is and what she needs and wants and then worry about it.
I can’t speak for every man but normally men look at the whole “cougar” thing as something to have fun with occasionally as I have but rarely(except for BTTW) to be a long term thing.Bottom line is it’s hard enough to have and keep a serious relationship going with someone your own age let alone a man who’s 10-15 yrs younger.
Persephone says
In response to JB, at number 46, my husband is 13 years younger than me and we just had our ninth wedding anniversary. I’m probably completely out of the ordinary, and so is he in comparison to the audience the this board is geared to. We are both in the same minority religion, and while I was born in the USA, both our families are relatively recently settled in this country. I know that Evan gears his comments towards the majority, but in our situation our unusual qualities override the age difference. And, yes, people think we are the same age by looking at us. When I was 28 I still looks like I was 12. Now that I’m fifty, I easily look 15 years younger. I chalk that up to my facial features, good health, clothing style, and hair style.
Andrea says
Goodness, Americans have so many ideas that Europe is some kind of magical utopia where our uptight American rules don’t apply. I think that men are men, and I can’t think of any culture where men are choosing older mates MORE than they choose mates their own age or younger.
Haven’t lived in Europe but have several friends and college classmates who are married to Europeans (Brits, Germans, Swedes, French), and guess what? All of those guys are the same ages as my friends. Same is true of my European classmates from grad school. I think you can find a nice young European fling, but I think men Europe still gravitate towards youth.
You know, I love the British expression for cougar. A British bus driver said that they say “Twas mutton done up like lamb.” I said, “do you mean, like Madonna?” And he made a face.
Who started the rumor that the Mrs. Robinson craze had taken hold of the Continent? I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe and I didn’t exactly see a lot of older women with their young boyfriends. That sounds like the plot of a Nancy Meyers film
I hope some Europeans do chime in, but you know, they like youth and beauty just like we do, and I’ve noticed that several of the older French actresses have subjected themselves to some really awful plastic surgery in order to cling to their youth (it hasn’t worked). Plus, several high profile European actors who were with older women ended up leaving them for younger women.
Clearly, there is a lot to figure out…good luck in your search.
Karl R says
AM said: (#44)
“Karl..odd how you see an open discussion about sex as an elephant in the room..”
It’s odd that you thought sex was the “elephant” I was refering to.
You claim that you want “something deep and long-lasting,” but you’re not available for that kind of relationship due to your marital status. If a long-term relationship was truly a priority, you’d be in a rush to get divorced in order to facilitate that goal.
If a man (or woman) is searching for a long-term relationship online, he sets his search filters to exclude people who are “separated.”
You claim to want “a passionate relationship of integrity” and to “want more than the cougar/toy boy experience.” But these seem to be the main qualities you’re looking for:
1. Hot
2. Energetic
3. Passionate
4. Successful
Combine that with the adjectives you use to describe yourself, and it looks like you’re advertising for a fling, not an enduring relationship.
If you want a relationship with integrity (or if you just want a relationship that will last), you might want to start with the traits associated with that goal: honesty, understanding, patience, loyalty, etc.
AM said: (#44)
“As a postscript, I would love to hear the European version of this conversation..”
Are you hoping to find someone who will validate your position?
I’m guessing most Europeans know some men over the age of 40 who are attractive, energetic and enthusiastic … so you’re unlikely to find a lot of validation there.
I suspect most would be confused by your need to justify your attraction to younger men. You’re attracted to people younger than you. Who isn’t? There’s no need to invent some reason that men close to your age are unsuitable just to rationalize that attraction.
As I said earlier, my girlfriend is 16 years older than me. I don’t have anything against a younger man dating an older woman.
But my girlfriend didn’t limit herself to younger men, and I didn’t limit myself to older women. We were both looking for the best partner we could find.
AM asked: (#18)
“I’m still hoping that the ‘right’ man will show up…which gets back to my original question..where is he?”
I’m looking for the car that will make me happy. What kind should I buy?
There’s no way to answer my question. Happiness doesn’t come from cars.
You want to know where to find the “right man,” but you don’t want to hear the answer. You could find a young, hot, beautiful, energetic, enthusiastic and successful man, and he’ll still probably be the wrong man. None of those traits matter if it turns out that he’s not trustworthy, or mean, or selfish.
Figure out which traits are absolutely essential. Search for those. If the right man turns out to be young and hot, that’s a bonus.
Steve says
Alright. I’m starting a club for us latte and movie fans. Our first meeting is this Sunday. Naysayers can stay home 🙂
Gabrielle says
I live in a college town–I can’t pretend I pass for 30 any more (which does make me a little sad) but so what? I’m attractive, interesting, exciting, yadda, yadda and it has never mattered in the long run. If a guy finds you interesting, he’ll make the effort to get and keep your attention. If he tires of you, or himself, or the life you have with him, he’ll bail.
You don’t have control over that.
Regardless of how great I am, I’m still 46, twice divorced and have two kids–one of whom is under 10. He won’t be leaving home any time soon. It changes the playing field.
I prefer guys around my age, but I haven’t dated a guy less than 5 years my junior since I was in my mid-30’s. Why? They ask me out. They don’t hang back, pretending to be cool. Maybe it’s a generational thing. GenX guys never have seemed too interested in behaving like adults, but maybe that’s just my experience.
There are distinct issues with dating someone 10 years younger though. There can be a real disconnect sometimes. I decided to try online dating about 6 months ago, hoping to meet someone my age.
I’ll be honest. At this point, I’m doing it purely to stay in practice. If someone writes to me, I’ll reply. Why not? It doesn’t mean anything. These guys aren’t bothering to find out who I am–they’re writing to whatever my picture represents for them.
It doesn’t bode well for anything serious but whatever.
I don’t think it’s that different in real life, there’s just more of it online.
It’s frustrating, but it’s not worth getting worked up about.
K'Mama says
Karl,
I think you and AM should get a room and work your tensions out there.
Evan,
After reading your blog for a couple of months now, Evan – which I have thoroughly enjoyed – this topic hit a nerve.
I truly appreciate all that you have written and the time you have taken to give sage and experiential advice. I have actually been listening to you off and on for a few years and may I say that marriage has done you and your message well. Congratulations on your beautiful wife and your burgeoning family. I am especially impressed that you (unlike many of your male dating-guru contemporaries) have taken your own advice and actually gotten married. Once I learned that, you permanently had my ear.
In this instance with AM, I do understand your advice, but find it intensely logical and brusque. I can sense your weariness borne from dealing with women with “ridiculous” expectations and desires. Yet, we all know that love/romance/even hookups aren’t logical by any stretch of the imagination.
As I find myself in a May-December romance, (he is 15 years younger – yikes!), this type of relationship, while not ideal if having children are the consideration, is becoming more and more common and the landscape of dating is rapidly changing. And thank god, as this has opened up my dating pool. Age differences, racial differences, educational/class differences, hotness/vs. plain – the paradigm shift is occurring as we speak. The old paradigm (think JFK/Jackie O) of hot blond boy with Harvard law degree in early 30s, meets and marries, nice girl of equal hotness but not too smart, but good family values and ready to pop out 2.5 blond kids for him in say 5 years but before she’s 35 – is rapidly shrinking. What’s left? Each and everyone of us on this post thread – the so-called exceptions. (honestly, in my opinion the blond-guy/girl scenario is what is the exception)
So while I know from reading many of your posts Evan, that you deal in “just -the-facts-ma’am” type statistics and suggest that women in their 40s (i hit 40 this year) should embrace the fact that to the rest of the world, this diminishes our sale-ability in the open market, in my world – this just ain’t so. And isn’t that the only world that counts? I’ve done most of my spiritual work and growth here-to-date in my thirties and this growth has attracted a whole range of type of men…. which leads me to my main and final point and then I’ll shut up.
I feel that AM has every human right to want what she wants and want it with gusto. Actually it doesn’t even matter who she wants. A rampant theme throughout this comment thread and some of the others is an incessant attention to the absurd comparison of who’s hot, who’s not, men in their senior years wanting young hot childbearing chicks or vice versa, blah blah blah. On the logical surface this is truly relevant. In reality – as you have demonstrated in your own life, Evan – it’s not. We all know as we get older this (race, age, income status, intelligence quotient) matters less and less and the person’s energy and spirit matter more and more. Beating any woman over the head with stats on just how unlikely it is that she would get what she wants is, imho, a futile act. The heart wants what it thinks it wants.
As a subscriber to Abraham-Hicks and their understanding of the laws of the universe (please forgive me if you neither know, follow nor care about Ab-hicks), it seems appropriate to say that perhaps AM’s goal before finding the amazing 30 year old that meets her sexual and emotional needs, is to get aligned. You know like, get a divorce and finalize that energetic relationship, take a breath, get quiet… ect. And then take action. So many of the authors of the questions you post are from women who are clearly trying to take action, [jump online, run around looking, working out, beating the drum about how energetic/hot/youthful they are] before they even ready for a healthy relationship. What jumps out at me, as I read the posts and try to absorb Evan’s wit and advice and the collective wisdom from readers, is that these women probably could benefit from doing some major inner work. Then look for similar energetic qualities to satisfy them.
I started doing that this year and low and behold, what showed up, as usual, surprised me in the package of a 50 year old soul wrapped up in a 25 year old man’s body. And one of the healthiest/honest/sweetest relationships I’ve had to date. I don’t beat the drum of specifics per se anymore. I just focus on alignment. Who knows where it this will lead, – I have you Evan to thank for helping me to understand the logical male psyche and be able to relax into it and let it bloom organically. But I wouldn’t have gotten to this place had I internalized the logical statistics about age/race/class and accepted this imagined second class status as a woman of a certain age.
AM – I send you positivity and honestly believe you will attract to you what you are spiritually. Work on that and the rest will come and I’m sure you’ll get your match.
Andrea says
I’d love to hear from the over 45 set what they “do” that qualifies them as “not acting” their age? Is it being active? Not that rare. Is it using gadgets? Are you on Facebook ? Do you Tweet? Is Jay-Z on your Ipod? I just think that a lot of people who are older who think that they are young and hip are really mistaken, and the results are really awkward. (as I mentioned, watch the Cougar Den skit on SNL). Even if you aren’t like your friends, it doesn’t meant that there aren’t loads of people like you, and how someone acts at any given age has SO much to do with their circumstances (are you married or single, do you have kids, and if so, how old are they). Maybe it’s just the self-selecting group of people who blog here, but do you realize how much of a cliche it is that you claim to be so youthful at 45?
Because I also wonder, what the heck do they think that 30 year olds do? Trust me, you might not like it. I think Sunday afternoon lattes sounds great.
I sometimes wonder if some older women who married young get divorced and are ready to party(whereas if you got to party through your 20’s and beyond you are over it). I’m not sure if someone who is 50 got married closer to 20, whereas now, depending on your region, you could find plenty of never marrieds in their 30’s (esp. true in big cities, maybe less so in other places). It also maybe depends on your set, because of course, people who aren’t going to college are perhaps getting married young, but if you are going to college, grad school, professional school, post-docs, etc., a lot of people will be really intensely focused on school and career in their 20’s.
I would say caveat emptor. You have no idea how 30 year olds socialize, and you’ll find that it’s likely MUCH different than what 30 was like when you were that age, and no matter how young acting you think you are, I can guarantee that it’s not what you do to have fun.
So are you all just comparing your 48 to your parents or grandparents 48? B/c it’s all changed a LOT in the 20th and 21st centuries. I can safely say that my mom at 48 and my grandma at 48 were completely different creatures, so if that is your comparison, you are out of touch with what 48 is. You probably weren’t the same as your forebears were at 40, 30, 20, etc. either.
I just don’t want to lose touch with reality and assume that me being me makes me special, young, or hip as I get older. I just don’t see how it would qualify as “not acting my age.”
And just to be clear, I roll my eyes just as much at 21 year olds who think that they are too mature for people their own age either (very typical of exceptionally bright young people).
I just think that until you are X years old, you don’t have any idea what you will be like, and you are a horrible judge of what being X years old is.
Love this post topic, but I do think that letter writer wanted validation and not the truth since the reply did tell her the truth and also pointed out that her truth is the same that it would be if she was a man (and you could infer the answer with several other older topics).
Denise says
#50 Steve
I’m there…not too early I hope though! Thanks for offering to make us all feel included 🙂
Selena says
@ Steve #50
I’m in.
Steve says
Andrea 53
(as I mentioned, watch the Cougar Den skit on SNL).
Since you posted about it twice I decided to watch it:
The skit reminded of the way older men used to be mocked for chasing women much younger than they were ( gut, toupee that flops off at odd moments, etc ).
Goldie says
#53 Andrea: “I’d love to hear from the over 45 set what they “do” that qualifies them as “not acting” their age?”
Not exactly the over-45 set, but to me that would mean not being afraid to learn and try new things, and not getting stuck in a rut. Nothing wrong with Two and a Half Men reruns every evening after work, a latte every Sunday morning, vacation at your favorite all-inclusive resort every winter… except that, after some years of this, the two of you have nothing to talk about anymore and bore each other to tears. And that’s not fair to us or our partners. We’re all the proverbial smart/strong/successful people here, capable of having more interesting lives than that.
Denise says
#53 Andrea: “I’d love to hear from the over 45 set what they “do” that qualifies them as “not acting” their age?”
For women, I think not acting their age is wearing clothes, jewelry, makeup, hair that a 20 year old would wear, for example. Going out and getting a body full of tattoos at 45. Consistently going out at 11 pm, walking into clubs with the 21 year olds. Getting involved in or tolerating the drama of younger people. Constantly saying how young you look and act, how young men are always fawning over you, swinging your long hair (which more than likely are extensions). Someone not being able to handle their liquor or sleeping around indiscriminately.
This is MUCH different than exploring different activities, making new friends, trying new things like skydiving, going back to school, understanding and using technology. That’s just living life!
Persephone says
In Reply to Denise, #57: I am 50, was blessed with long hair that is the envy of any 25 y.o., and buy outfits from the same shops as the college girls, because they look good on me, rather than trying to be something I am not. I am jist being the real me. No tatoos, no night clubs, no sleeping around (too much), but I did not do those things in my 20s, either. Maybe that contributes to why I look so young.
I was never able to get men my age to show one bit of interest in me. I really tried. When I was younger–say 40–no one would believe I was past 27. I was frustrated in my 20s because I looked 12. It was either being destined to be alone, or else accept that the younger guys hit on me, and the younger women accept me as being in their age bracket. Even the women my age shunned me. I can remember at a large party when I was actually escorted by a woman my age to where the teenagers were all congregating, and boy, was I uncomfortable.
I am not necessarily bragging about it so much as complaining, but I have accepted by now that I can finally consider this lucky, where before it was a curse.
OK. I will continue to act myself, but now accept that younger guys do chase me.
Shouraku says
The problem with chasing 30 year old men is that they have the ability to attract hot, energetic, successful, fun, 30 year old women.
From your writing you seem to be a very fun person, but from the 30 year old mans perspective, why would he want to start a LTR with a fun 50 year old woman when he could easily attract a 30 year old version of you?
There are many hot, energetic, successful, younger women ripe for the picking for a quality 30 year old man. That is why you are having issues, not because you are not amazing, but because there are tons of younger versions of you who are also looking for LTR with the same quality men.
Of course, they are not you, and thus do not have the same experience and wisdom that you do. However, getting them to stay around long enough to stop seeing you as a novelty and realize this is an issue. If they are starting out with the mindset that a LTR with you is not a possibility (from their end), then it is very difficult to convince them to see you as something other then a novelty later on down the road.
My heart goes out to you, you seem like an amazing woman, but that does not change the nature of the situation that you are in.
Ellen says
Agree with Diana and K’Mama- Men my age (50’s) are often sexist, tired, emotionally damaged and/or controlling after a lifetime of learning how to manipulate women frankly (Diana’s point); some younger men really DO prefer older women and aren’t just looking for easy, hot sex (K.Mama’s point).
I am 57, look 45 on a good day (plastic surgery, a lifetime of exercise etc.) told all the time by young and old I’m beautiful, yada, yada, yada, so suddenly about a year ago fell into dating handsome younger, much younger actually, and haven’t looked back yet Evan. Now, I’m no fool and I know there is no future with most of these men (3 so far), but I find their youth, honesty, lack of emotional baggage, their RESPECT (they respect me and my lifelong accomplishments in a way no man my age does), the incredible hot sex, pretty damn thrilling and addictive to tell you the truth so I doubt I look for that 5% in my age range who can keep up with me looks-wise, energy-wise. It’s not the older man’s fault really- they haven’t spent a lifetime nurturing their looks the way woman do, like I did….
But recently I decided I was ready for an ongoing real relationship so I am back talking to a guy I met at a conference a year ago who is closer to my age. I might add he is still about 7 years younger, but he looks my age ’cause I think he used to drink a lot and works 60+ weeks. But his character/gravitas, our potential emotional connection (wish me luck!) keep drawing me in. He is not good looking btw, but again, I sense we could have something really meaningful long-term.
I just discovered your site today, I did have a much younger man “disappear” on me last month (purely online- never met!) so may order your online book. I am probably scary successful, intelligent, too intelligent for most guys probably (20 years schooling) (I’m learning- new to me having been married most of my life) so need this info asap! You are doing a great job getting the word out on how to behave around a man and us women do appreciate it. Btw, my Dad was military, I have two much older brothers, but STILL don’t understand men completely. But I’ve made enormous headway over the past two years and feel now I “get” them pretty much. It’s all about unconditional love, which is a spiritual goal of mine anyway. Everyone Happy New Year! Ellen in SC
Ruby says
One of the reasons for the shift in dating demographics is directly related to the fact that people are dating later and later in life. Our past experiences give us a chance to see that what we wanted – or didn’t want – at 22 is different from what we want/need at 52. Most people of my parents’ generation got married fairly young and stayed married, happy or not. There weren’t legions of newly single or never married middle-aged folks out there as is happening today. As K’Mama said, the paradigm is shifting.
Selena says
There is no guarantee of how long a relationship will last. Any. And there is no specific place to meet men interested in serious relationships with significantly older women. All you can do AM is put yourself out there, with realistic expectations, and see what happens.
Like some others though, I am rather mystified as to why you want another serious relationship when you are still married to someone. Actually going through with a divorce would seem to be your logical first step – in any direction.
Ms. Trace says
Evan,
I’ve been following your blog and your answers are progressively getting more blunt and harsh. As a dating coach for older women who can afford one, you probably deal with a large than average share of people who constantly overate themselves- hence their need for a coach in the first place. Your tag line should be: Realistic Advice for Delusional, Aging Women. I’m still in the younger-ish age bracket ( early 30’s); reading about the issues women their 40’s face is terrifying and makes me want to “settle” for the next half decent guy who comes along. Your blog should be must-reading for any woman in her 20’s and early 30’s who wants to find a quality guy. Yes, paradigms are shifting and quantum leaps in plastic surgery are being made, but why play the dating lottery this way, when the odds are you’ll lose? No matter how young and energetic people say they look, I’m sure that should any of us die and our bodies have to be identified by strangers, our ages would be pegged correctly. Ever notice how we never see posters of missing people saying they are 48, but look 38? We need their real ages, so we can properly identify them. Evan, your job is not an enviable one, as you are probably the only person that these women talk to who tell them the truth. But, hey that’s why you get paid the big buck 😉
Andrea says
I’m starting to wish we had avatars since so many people are convinced that they look 10-20 years younger than their real age…such a cliche at this point, and I’m not sure why so many people have it in their posts and their online profiles. It’s kind of faulty reasoning on both ends, since the person claiming it sounds narcissistic, and if you ask someone much younger than you, they only know that you are older and are imagining what +20 or +30 looks like.
I mean, it would seem like arguing the older is so much better should be because it is, not because you’ve somehow played a trick on everyone’s eyes.
It’s still funny how many of the cougars interpret Evan’s advice as telling AM that she can’t have or shouldn’t want a younger man. He never said that. He only told her that the number of men who are younger who’ll want a real relationship with her is significantly lower than it would be if she was still 25 or 30(b/c they can find tons of the younger versions of her instead).
She seemed shocked that being older and hot wasn’t enough to make her a hot commodity to have her pick of younger men. So writing in to tell us about your hot 21 year old boyfriend and all of the pool boys and valets that hit on you doesn’t disprove that. It just means that if you were 25, there would be about 4x as many of them.
Jadafisk says
That’s the thing though… I’m confused. As a 25 year old woman, if 30 year old men don’t want to settle down with anyone due to wild oats, career considerations, etc, and men younger than that don’t want to for the same reasons, either, then what under 40 age range of man typically wants to settle down, and with whom?
Also, women in the LW’s age range often have a strong marked preference for men in their own age range, who are less interested in dating them. This has been evinced by many. But she’s looking at younger men, and that’s not conducive to LTRs and high desirability, either. So what’s the solution? Should middle-aged women who are looking for someone interested and willing to settle down be looking for men 10-15 years their senior, satisfying those men’s desires for a younger mate and becoming a nuisance to those men’s single age peers? Or should they largely abandon whatever age preferences they have because from a supply demand scenario, they’re at the mercy of the market?
Teresa Muniz says
Such a great point! Sounds like if you’re in your mid-20s, and looking to date in your age range, you are out of luck! Apparently no man in their 20s or early 30s is looking to settle down yet! What is the solution?
Selena says
Re:#63
Many people think (like to believe) they look 10 years younger than their age. And they may look a bit younger than some of their peers. But they definetly do not look 10 years younger to someone who actually IS 10 years younger.
This is easy to test: No matter how good someone looks, how many times have you mistaken someone 10 years OLDER than yourself to be your own age? Think about it.
Karmic Equation says
I’m dating a 30-yo and I’m 47. We’ve had an open discussion on this.
He knows my real age. But I asked him his honest opinion about how old I look to him.
He says, “You look 38. 47 is old. But as a 30-yo, 38 isn’t old yet. You look young.” That’s actually consistent with what men my age that I hang out with (I shoot pool and most of my friends are men) — say I look. For the longest time age never came up. But somehow it did and I was honest. “Wow, I would never have guessed that. I thought you were around 37-38” or some version of that.
And these men who tell me this? I thought they were older than they actually were! Most were about 2-3 years younger than I am.
So online, when men write “I look younger than I am” or “Sexy, smart, handsome…” I think to myself, I have eyes, dude. You don’t need to write in your profile something I can determine for myself. And right there and then, I think the OPPOSITE.
So the lesson is, whether you’re a man or a woman, that if you THINK you look younger than you are or you THINK that you’re sexy, you SHOULD NOT write those adjectives into your profile. They have the opposite affect of what you’re trying to achieve.
Steve says
The quickest way for someone to get a perspective on how young they look is to take a walk through a college campus. A guaranteed shocker.
Star says
I think we are all more likely to have a better relationship with someone who is closest to our own age. Andrea pegged it by saying that the different generations socialize differently. What 30 year olds do is quite different to what 40 years old do and the differences are even more pronounced the older we get. The way each generation was raised, their thinking patterns, what they value, etc… is so entirely different. I am 39 and I realize this each time I meet someone my own age and we “click” so well because we grew up in the same “time”. It’s not like this with even the 30 year olds, and especially not AT ALL like that with 50 year old and above. 10 years is significant, not only generationally but each age group is at a life stage. And, I don’t care who you are…no matter how great of shape you claim to be in or plastic surgery you’ve had….your body has aged and it shows. Just look at Arnold Swartzenegger…once age hit him, no amount of fitness and exercise is going to change it. That’s the unfortunate truth, so accept it. Personally, I don’t want to have a serious relationship with anyone outside of my age group. The bond I’ve found with the men in my own age group is so profound that it’s worth holding out for (which truly isn’t that difficult).
Karl R says
Andrea said: (#63)
“I’m starting to wish we had avatars”
If you’re curious, you can click the link in my name. That should give you some idea what I look like.
On the other hand, I never claim that I look young for my age. I let other people decide for themselves.
Andrea said: (#63)
“so many people are convinced that they look 10-20 years younger than their real age…”
Some of them are comparing themselves with their peers … and are selectively chosing the peers who look old for their age.
Others are listening to people who tell them they look young. However, they’re overlooking two things:
1. flattery (I know you want to look younger than you are)
2. people who are bad at judging ages
Finally, there’s a difference between looking 10 years younger and being 10 years younger. AM said, “I love guys who are around the 30 year old mark.” Men who are that age, not men who look that age.
A person can look young and can act immature, but that doesn’t change the age they are.
Jenny says
Since you are so much better looking than the rest of other women in your age range, why won’t you prove it then? Instead of coming to this place and ask for approval like a kid asking her parents who should she date, go get someone much younger who is willing to commit to you.
Oh…. I guess you can’t/haven’t/not yet so far, then Evan’s point is well proven.
Bill says
People love to give other people compliments because thats how we men and women flirt. Flirting is fun!!!!
Steve says
Karl R 68
Andrea said: (#63)
“I’m starting to wish we had avatars”
If you’re curious, you can click the link in my name. That should give you some idea what I look like.
Karl, I had no idea you were a petite woman with curly hair in your early 30s. For some reason I always thought you were a guy 🙂
Karl R says
Steve said: (#72)
“a petite woman with curly hair in your early 30s.”
My girlfriend will be flattered.
Selena says
That was fun to watch Karl, thanks for telling us. 🙂
Ruby says
Cute couple, cute girlfriend, Karl! Dare I say that she could pass for much younger?
Hadley Paige says
Jadafisk @ 65 says “Should middle-aged women who are looking for someone interested and willing to settle down be looking for men 10-15 years their senior, satisfying those men’s desires for a younger mate and becoming a nuisance to those men’s single age peers?“
Jadafisk, I don’t get your suggestion that these women would become “a nuisance to those men’s single age peers” although it is very considerate of you to be concerned with annoying that guy’s friends. Could you explain that observation to me?
My short answer to your question is yes. If women want to attract & hold a man they must first attract a man. It is axiomatic that if broadly speaking the largest group of men who would be interested in a 40ish woman for a serious LTR are men 10-15 yrs older than her, then her greatest likelihood of achieving an LTR would be to focus her efforts in this group. (standard disclaimer here: yes, everyone is an individual, and yes, there are examples of women who have had success in finding an LTR outside of this statistic).
To use a fishing metaphor: it doesn’t matter what the fisherman want to catch, it matters what his lure is and where he drops it. If all he has is a bass lure he can only catch bass and only if he drops it where the bass are. The fact that he only likes to eat trout, and only wants to catch a trout is irrelevant to the facts on the ground. His realistic choices are: ( i) learn to like bass; or (ii) don’t eat fish. The 3rd choice of changing the bass’s mind about what lure he should like and why he should like it ain’t going to work.
Similarly, if for a 40ish woman, the only men who are presenting themselves for a LTR with her (note I said presenting themselves for an LTR rather than presenting themselves for a toss in the hay) are men 10+ yrs older than she, she must face the fact that that is what her lure looks like (once again, it doesn’t matter why). Her choices are the same as the fisherman’s above.
Vox says
Everyone who claims they look 10-20 years younger should upload a picture to guessmyage.net and find out what the masses really think. I am tempted myself… but then again maybe I’m better off not knowing the truth! Then again, I don’t make claims about how I look.
Jadafisk says
“Could you explain that option for me?”
I meant that they would become a nuisance to those men’s single female age peers who would actually prefer to date a 50-60 something year old man first and foremost. Also, how does a woman know if she’s being pursued for an LTR or a roll in the hay by those men, especially since a lot of single men in that age range would be divorcees with no interest in marrying again and/or staunch lifetime singles…
JennLee says
I feel some women simply don’t want to know. Seriously, I had a friend that was dating a younger guy and I called him her boyfriend. Let me correct that, they were living together. He was not her boyfriend. When I said that, she let me know that he didn’t want to put any labels on their relationship. They had been living together for 3 years. 3 YEARS! And he would not call himself her boyfriend. It was very clear to everyone around her that this guy wanted to sit close to the exit. You know, like you do on a plane so that you can get out fast if you need to? I see this in a lot of women who are dating younger men. People on the outside can sometimes see that the guy isn’t in it for the long haul, but she refuses to see the truth and often they get very upset if you try to point out the obvious to them. They have their younger guy, and they aren’t going to let anyone tel them anything different.
Think about it like this, if you were going to buy a house, wouldn’t you do a lot of research? What if you had your heart set on a specific kind of house, but then the realtor tells you that that type of house has been costing it’s owners huge amounts of money because some inherent flaw in its architectural design. Buying one will literally cause you to be what we call, house poor. Would you invest a lot of money into buying one? Well that is what it is like to chase after the idea of marrying a younger man. You can look around at the very rare cases where a woman was able to find that, and actually make it last, and then dream about having that yourself, but smart money looks for the market trends and the reality is, men will sleep with and date older women. They will even shack up. Some might even marry. But the reality is, the more commitment you are looking for, the less you are likely to get what you want from a younger man. Look at Demi Moore. She’s far better looking than most of us and she married a peer professionally, which would be like us marrying a guy in a professional field. She could not make it work. Makes you wonder why Ashton did it in the first place. It’s known that he cheated on her and as soon as she started showing her age a little bit, he bailed. And she was a mental wreck the last couple of years of their marriage. She saw the hand writing on the wall. And now look at her. Once again she is out running around with guys in their late 20s and early 30s. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know what is going on. Even rock stars and actors like the idea of a hot cougar to have fun with for a while, and also, these guys like the exposure it gives them since Demi is more accomplished and better known than most of them. That was the case with Ashton. So I think they see it as something that will get them exposure in the media. Maybe even make them more popular with women. It worked for Ashton. So my gut tells me that other than rare exceptions, most are not in it for love when you see an older woman with a younger man.
Dean Kaplan says
Ouch! As hurtful as it sounds, Evan is right. I have acquaintances that are around 30 years of age that have flings with older women, they may even cheat on their younger partners with these older women, but I haven’t met ONE that seriously considered dating or leaving their mates to be with the older woman.
Older, attractive women are often fantasies for younger men, as they tend to be sexually experienced, and maybe even more importantly, they tend to have a lesser expectation for strings to be attached to the sex.
hunter says
Beenthroughwars, he was 33 and you were 44???..you must be stunning drop dead gorgeous and/or own the U.S. Mint.
Helen says
Karl R, you have got the MOVES! Whoa! And your girlfriend is lovely.
AM: I would agree with Kaitlyn above who says that you should first decide what you want to do with your husband who is not officially an ex. Would you ever consider getting back together with him? You need to make a decision on that, one way or the other, to clarify what you want NOW. It’s not fair to leave anyone dangling on the side (either your husband or any new guy with whom you have a relationship).
As far as energy level is concerned, it’s not the most important thing in a LTR/marriage. A husband is not supposed to fulfill all your needs. You can find outlets for your energy in ways that don’t include him, and both of you would be happier for it, because it brings new experiences into the marriage. You can’t do everything together, nor is it desirable to do so. I belong to an all-women’s book club and intend to join musical groups when the kids grow up a bit. Hubby has sports activities that don’t include me. It works out well.
Ruby says
Hunter #80
People fall in love for all sorts of reasons. Looks, money, age aren’t the only factors.
hunter says
Looks, money, age, aren’t the only important factors? Forgive me for being shallow…..please let me know about other factors “most” people consider…..
Karl R says
hunter said: (#83)
“Looks, money, age, aren’t the only important factors? […] please let me know about other factors ‘most’ people consider…”
Intelligence/education
Trustworthiness/loyalty/fidelity
Patient, kind, not jealous
Ability to compromise
Similar views on money (spending, saving, charity)
Similar views on family (particularly having/raising kids)
Willingness to tolerate pets (if either of you have them)
Ability to understand each other (do you “get” each other)
Similar attitudes towards sex (frequency/variety/etc.)
Similar sense of humor
Some similar interests (so you spend some spare time together)
That’s not an exhaustive list, but I would consider all of those more important than looks, age or money.
hunter said: (#83)
“Forgive me for being shallow…”
That would be another factor that most people would use to eliminate a potential partner.
Ruby says
Karl #84
Great response!
Andrea says
@Karl…hahahahahahaha.
Seriously @Hunter, are you in high school? Because just walking down the street you should see that not everyone is still tied to the idea of dating the homecoming queen or football/basketball team captain. As I’ve seen in blog posts here, online dating is great b/c it lets you meet people that you’d never meet, but also awful b/c it makes dating seem like a buffet where you can get as much as you want until you are full, esp. for men. Never mind how often your hands get smacked as you reach for the serving spoon.
And yeah, I see “odd” couples all of the time. Beauty/attractiveness/handsomeness are awesome that way. As much as everyone here will perhaps tow the line in regards to what is attractive or not(young is better than old, skinny is better than fat), everyone has a shot at love because we all want something different, and since it only takes just one, it’s silly to assume that the lady above has to look like Cindy Crawford to have a husband who is 10 years her junior.
Was just on a flight where I assumed that a couple were siblings b/c of the supposed “inequity” in their appearance. But of course, there is the fact that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and also all of the things that Karl just listed. And yes, it was the guy who was the tall, athletic looking, “attractive” one. The girl seemed to be his opposite in every way, and he was all over her. But I guess you’d assume that she must be rich or something.
Rob says
What isn’t mentioned is the growth most people go through between early 30’s to mid 40’s. Even if you do find a younger someone to have a relationship with the chances of them staying the same over a twenty year period are almost nil. It happened to me.
I was 20, she was 35. 20 years later I was a totally different person…not due to anything more then the natural growth we all go through. True this can happen to anyone at any age but you are much more settled when you are in your mid-forties then when you are in your 20′ or 30’s. The young man you find today will be a very different middle aged man tomorrow.
By the way “she” is still a great person,we still have contact but I grew up and changed. As all people do.
C’est La Vie.
Joe says
For this older woman, I’m going to tell her “Yes, there is hope” especially if she is successful. Men are always attracted to successful hot women. Now the question is whether a Younger Guy will marry her. A younger Guy will likely want children someday – so this can be accomplished either through adoption or surrogacy. But, the question for her is “Does she really want to get married again or LTR” because it seems to me in all these questions “Women just want Marriage or LTR” but why?!?
Why can’t at her older age, she can just have fun being a Single, Free Woman who can date several men, not just only one. A woman can be Single and Alone, but that is not a bad thing. Because Single Men have no problem being alone or dating several women.
Maryk says
This is absurd! Sorry to say…but no relationship regardless of age is “guaranteed” to be LIFE LONG fulfilling. She can find it…My girlfriend did. The guy she is seeing 2 years now… is crazy about her. 17 year age gap. They are now planning their wedding. He was married to a young girl… couldn’t stand how they acted. Doesn’t want children, he had a vasectomy years ago, during his first marriage.
She was merely stating is it possible to find…the answer is YES!!!! You can have a serious relationship with someone younger.
I date who I want, regardless of what others say. I was married to a guy my age, for 8 years. The most miserable years of my life. I dated someone my age for 6 years… fricken.. stupid waste of time. I dated a guy 21 when I was 31, best time of my life..and never will forget it. I broke up with him, had a stupid notion that I should be with someone my own age. That’s how I ended up with the 2 LOSERS. If you like a guy..forget about what others will think! Who gives a hoot! I am so tired of people telling other people whats best for them!
I am currently dating someone who is 33, he was married to a woman for 10 years..who was 10 years older than he was. He likes older women, he has his child..doesn’t care if he has more. He is respectful, gorgeous, and fun! Life is short… do what you want!
happilymarried says
I found a youngin’ 10 years younger and we are married. He pursued me and he asked me to marry him. He knew I was a little older he said, but he didn’t suspect there was almost 11 years between us.
I am NOT a cougar and was NOT looking specifically for a man younger than me. I was on dating sites looking for men my age and older and I got a lot of responses because I really DID look 10 – 15 years younger than my age.
I always had a rule: no more than 10 years either way. That’s pretty much your age group for lack of a better word. No woman or man in my opinion should go looking for people more than 15 years older. That’s just not realistic and there will be issues. My husband and I look roughly the same age and no one questions us. If he was in his 20s that would be a problem.
In dating I would say its important to be flexible and keep your options open. Be the type of woman you would want to date, if that makes sense, and you will attract the type of person you SHOULD be dating. That’s how you get something beautiful. Off the bat being a bitchy, picky, ageist is not the way to approach finding a relationship. There are more important things to consider like character.
All I ever asked of a man is that he be physically attractive to me, emotionally stable, kind, sense of humor, intelligent and have gainful employment and a plan for his life, a passion. I never had a list of how he should look, what color he should be, what particular age beyond he should be of my generation within 10 years of my age – either older or younger. And that’s who I got!
m says
I like happilymarried’s approach^^. Given the fact that it’s been annotated at least three times on this board alone, I’m not sure why what AM is looking for keeps being repeat-branded as some unlocatable needle-in-haystack.
elle says
I have the same problem as AM: younger men leave me when I tell them how old am I, men my age don’t want me, and older men do but I don’t want them… I understand that what you, Evan, say is the cold truth and the way of the world, but I have a question: ok, maybe I should “settle” for a nice man with a heart of gold with great husband potential, but what man on Earth will want to stay with woman that doesn’t attracted to him physically? He’ll leave me, too, eventually. I know from experience: I have two great boyfriends whom I wasn’t attracted to (there was some attraction in the beginning of the relationships, but too little of it, and then it evaporated), I just couldn’t force myself to sleep with them, and they left me saying “you don’t attracted to me”. Same result. So, what’s the point of compromising, “getting off the pedestal” ect?
Helen says
elle @ 92 is correct about attraction
I am in the same situation as OP . Not attracted to men my own age. I am attracted to much younger men. I dont know what I can do about it, one cannot compel attraction. I would like a relationship – not living together or marriage – with a younger man, but I am realistic and I know that the odds are against me.
Now that I am divorced life is good. No more insults, abuse, cooking and cleaning for pig on couch.
I used to be the hot 25 year old in her prime that my ex chose to marry instead of some older woman. What did I gain from it? I wasted 23 years of my life in a bad marriage, I cannot get those years back.
From what I have observed, men marry the 20 something hot/good girl. Over time the relationship becomes boring and they go online -and off line – looking for excitement. I am often approached online by married men, younger as well as older.
Whichever path one chooses in life, there’s is always a price to be paid. However, I am very lucky compared to other women, I own my own home, have job, my health is excellent and I am in good shape.
If my only option is occasional fun with a young guy, that doesnt sound bad at all!
katlg77 says
I know that most of these comments were made months ago, but I have to add my 2 cents worth! I am a 55 year old woman working in a beauty shop, for years, so I have seen a lot of people of a lot of different ages. Recently, a woman brought in her teenage son for a haircut. She wore baggy, saggy pants, flannel shirt, no makeup or jewelry, and her hair was long and frizzy, with 3 inches of gray roots. When we suggested she come back one day to pamper herself, maybe get hair color or highlights, her response was, ‘I am 55. It doesn’t matter anymore.” I was stunned. There is such a wide variety of people after say, 40 years old, and outside of genetics, I think that it is mostly a matter of CHOICE after that age. You CHOOSE to exercise or sit on the couch, take a class, volunteer, or sit on the couch, eat good food or junk food, wear fashionable, modern, flattering clothing, or just wear whatever is comfortable that you have had forever. We have two ladies that are 72 and 73, and I have guessed both of them as being about 20 years younger, because they are active, present themselves well, etc. I have been guessed by many people as being around 40- but I get up every morning to walk on a treadmill before work, I try to dress in a modern flattering way, wear subtle makeup, color my hair consistently, etc. All of this is WORK! And if someone does all that, they DESERVE to look younger than their peers. We also have the ladies who wear saggy baggy pants, clunky black shoes, short fluffy stiff gray hair, etc., and have NO sex appeal, but most are widows and have said they have NO interest in being involved with a man again, happy playing bingo, grandkids, etc., which is their choice, also. I have dated 3 men in the past year-one 2 years older than me, one 3 years older, and one a LOT younger (30). The two older guys sat on the couch most days, were out of shape though not overweight, had no hobbies, and spent way too much time talking about their ex wives. Meanwhile, the 30 year old and I take walks, work on cars, watch ball games, and talk for hours. We were friends over a year before becoming involved. Sexually we are very well suited. I have no fantasies of us getting married and having kids, and I have told him that. It is what it is for right now. The men my age seem to have a lot of erectile issues, and some won’t admit it and get help. And some of them seem to have something to prove, by trying too hard to be cool and hip, dating ONLY younger women, etc. The younger man does not even have an ex wife, and we have a GREAT time hanging out. I am no longer seeing the older men as by comparison they just were no fun. Older men have a responsibility also to stay active, current, interesting, in shape, and some of them are not making that choice. I did not go out LOOKING for a younger man, he found me. I would LOVE to find someone in my age group with a positive attitude, good hobby, see women as equals, that care how they present themselves. I have dated a LOT over the past 2 years and has not happened yet. I am still looking.
Dawn says
I liked your answer Evan – you wrote what I was thinking when I read her post/question!!
World Traveler says
I have been happily married to someone my own age for several years. I have never wanted to date outside my age group because I want to be able to have things in common (generationally speaking). I also have a master’s degree in psychology.
But, I wanted to add my two cents. There are some women who ARE in their 40’s, who are smart, successful, and who look like they are 15 years younger. I will give you a case in point. My best friend of many years is in her early 40’s. She has made the choice not to have children because she knows what makes her happy. She is also extremely physically fit– she has a master’s degree from an elite British university and she is a certified personal trainer. On top of that, she owns a successful business that deals in intellectual property. Any time we are out, the men who hit on her are in their 20’s. It is obvious they think they are hitting on someone within their age group.
So, my friend also prefers men 10-15 years younger and she can get them…in spades. She can also have them beg to be in a relationship with her. She is the one who leaves because they are usually too immature.
She has always been extremely athletic, she has always been smart, and she has always been gorgeous. Because she takes care of herself (and is not afraid to get botox and fillers) she looks like she did in her early 20’s. She still has the same energy level as well.
But, my friend is in a conundrum. She also has the libido of a man in her twenties. This is no joke. She frequently remarks that she in genuinely frustrated because of this.
I know all of this might sound shallow to you, but she is one of the least shallow and most remarkable people I have met and she desires a long term monogamous relationship. She is well aware that a younger man may not be best for her and she is frustrated she has yet to keep up with someone our age. She is open to someone her age but has yet to find him.
So, women somewhat like this reader do exist.
But your reply to her genuinely bothers me.
Until you start writing really insulting and demeaning men who want a May-December relationship, I would refrain from being so demeaning to women who prefer younger men.
It also says a lot about you that you would use a potential client’s inquiry as a blog post that absolutely demeans her by implying many things you do not know, such as whether or not she is truly a narcissist. It is not wise to treat potential clients in such a shaming way.
Plus, you are playing into this stereotype in spades that women over 40 are used up and that it is a total joke if they desire someone younger.
Since you coach so many women and many who might be baby boomers, I would refrain from ‘biting the hand that feeds you.’ Until you have an independent income source, I would put on a smile and tell women over the age of 40 that they are fabulous and that you are here to help them achieve their romantic goals. Doing otherwise is a bad way to run a business.
So, if you are in this business to help women, I would ask that you have more positive things to say to women over 40.
Helen says
Very well said!!
I have been married to a man my own age, now divorced. I keep myself very fit and I am well groomed. Since my divorce, I have discovered that I am not at all attracted to men my own age/older. In fact, they repulse me, big time! I would rather stay home and clean rather than date one. I am not looking for “the one” and I am quite happy to continue dating younger men. I will not apologize to anyone for my preferences. Lucky for me, there are lots of younger men who like the company of older women 😉 If I could not get young men I would opt to remain celibate for the rest of my life.
tamara says
@Helen: Wow thank goodness there are lovely women who like dating older men (the good ones) then. Otherwise what would the poor blokes do, when they “repulse” women their own age?
Karmic Equation says
Date women older than they are ?
tamara says
Haha I did think of that right after typing my comment. But all else being equal, dating older women is generally the 2nd choice for men as opposed to dating women their own age or younger. I think a man has to go vs biological and social conditioning to date older women, just like how they generally prefer women who aren’t taller than them.
Anyway my main point was that I’m disgusted tt some pple can say they’re repulsed by someone based on smthg he/she totally can’t help.
Karmic Equation says
Well, I’m not “repulsed” by men my age, but I’m rarely attracted to them. For me they need to look as young as I look for my age. That’s because I don’t want to date men that I think look like they could be my dad. A LOT of men who write their ages as 47 and “young for their age” look like they could be my dad. I’m really convinced most of them are shaving a decade off their ages online. Not just a few years. THAT is the problem. Maybe they DO look young for 55, but they certainly DON’T look 45 “and young for their age”, they don’t even look 45!
Anyway, I think repulsed, while an honest description, is not a nice word to use. It starts the process of “labeling” and all men “older” as “repulsive” and at some point the mind is going to equate the two, where older EQUALS repulsive, which is NOT the case.
Most older men are NOT as attractive as women of the same age who have taken time and pride to look the best they can. Money and success might be an equalizer to a certain extent. But ultimately, we women want men WE can lust after too.
And the problem with good looking fit men, who have money and are successful… They don’t want to date women their age 🙂 They don’t have to. The world isn’t fair. You just gotta accept that 🙂
tamara says
I think it’s true tt many older men don’t look as gd as their female peers. But, as Evan said, women who are gd catches can consider dating those men their age who are also good catches. Then she doesn’t face the challenges that can come with dating a much younger guy, while also having a fit vibrant guy she finds attractive.
I dated an older guy from one of Mediterranean European countries and i found him v hot, maybe Helen has to cast her net a bit wider cos I doubt she’d find him physically repulsive.More importantly, he’s intelligent, sensitive, funny and is a gentleman with good manners. So although she’s entitled to her opinion, it annoys me that she’d classify men like that as repulsive just cos of their age and older appearance. Just as it’d annoy me if men called an older woman repulsive despite her great traits.
Yes I know the world isn’t fair; I get reminded when I read Evan’s blog and the comments, it’s like being beaten with the reality stick, haha. It’s one reason I love this blog.
Karmic Equation says
Lol, Tamara 🙂
I think you’re missing the forest for the trees. That hot “older” guy you dated was dating YOU, a younger hot chick. He doesn’t ‘have to” date his peers because younger hot chicks like you were willing to date him.
I’m sure if HE were willing to date his peers, he’d find plenty who would. But hot older guys like him are dating young hot chicks like you.
You get it?
Helen says
Problem solved! You can have the old ones and I the young ones! LOL
tamara says
@Karmic Equation: Haha oh so that’s what u were referring to when saying the world isn’t fair. At first I was wondering what u were talking about. 🙂
Well firstly he’s just one middle-aged guy; I used him as an eg. And Helen said she dislikes men her own age, she didn’t just say she dislikes the guys her own age who wanted to date her. So i surmise she’s including really nice guys, like the one i mentioned, in that category of repulsive pple.
Btw the guy I mentioned stated in his profile that his ideal partner’s age range was from a few yrs younger to several yrs younger than himself. I’ve heard some ppl lie about this to not look shallow, but he doesn’t strike me as the devious type. I think he’d genuinely have been delighted with an attractive, smart and gd-hearted woman in her 40s (he’s late 40s).
The eligible men in middle age and above are not all dating women much younger. U make it sound like some women like Helen date younger cos desirable men their age are all taken up by younger women. Many attractive women who can get younger guys prefer them cos they’re hot. U and Helen seem to prefer younger guys for this reason. Evan did write an article quoting a study on how men and women both preferred dating younger, on the whole. I actually am a little glad men now experience some age discrimination in dating; sometimes u gotta know what it’s like to be the pincushion instead of the pin.
Karmic Equation says
I’m not sure about Helen. But I do try to date hot guys my age. Just that most of the ones I did try to date did not look like their pix. I’m usually pretty savvy in that I check out ALL the guy’s pix before I accept a date. Most older guys use a profile pic from 5-10 years younger as their Profile pic and then tuck their current pix at the end of their photo albums. Those guys I usually by pass and don’t reply to. Some guys age really badly in a few years.
However, there were other guys who used ONLY pix from when they were younger (nothing current at all in their albums), so I thought they actually looked like their pix currently. One guy was 50# heavier. All his pix showed him to be in decent shape. The guy I met was far from decent shape. Another guy had all pix of when he had a head of dark hair (I’m partial to brunettes) — But when I met him, he was COMPLETELY gray. Not even one dark hair. I felt somewhat deceived. He was still attractive for a guy with gray hair, but I honestly wouldn’t have accepted a date if I had known that’s what he looked like. I’m seldom attracted to all-gray types.
I’m attracted to “hot” regardless of age. But the truly hot guys my age ARE dating younger OR don’t like it when a woman my age isn’t chasing him. I’ll have initial contacts with hot men my age, but they don’t go anywhere. Maybe after a few messages they’re not attracted. Highly unlikely. I suspect that they’re getting persistent messages from either younger women or more beautiful women my age or women who are both and are not shy about chasing a good looking guy, so I don’t make the cut as I don’t chase and only mirror until the guys my bf. No biggie 🙂
So the only ones left are the young hot ones. Well, if that’s the only option left, it’s not exactly a chore to date ’em 😉
Jason says
And yet, Helen, you are on a blog looking for advice to get a man for a long term commitment. I have to laugh at how often women on here are constantly saying that they can get younger men, and are repulsed by older men. The only one who seems to understand is Karmic Equation because I read a post by her where she acknowledges it is all about the sex. I do believe that the women like you do get younger men, but for what? Sex only? Short relationships? I have lost count of the number of guys I know who go from older woman to older woman, with zero intention to ever get married to one. I meet these women, and get to know them over the few weeks to few years that these guys are with them. Of all of these men that I have known who date older women, only a very small number ever got married and only one is still married, which is understandable because he was the strike out king with women. So of course he will stay with the one who would have him. So Karmic had it right. If a man strikes out with women his own age, he can date older women, or maybe look overseas.
Some of these guys I know are high quality men on paper, but the word is out on them that they are serial daters. Commitment Phobes. Some are PUAs. All of the medium to high quality men I have ever known that are marriage minded pursue, date, and marry women their age and younger. Most of women are within one to several years of their age. A small handful of women 8 to 15 years younger. But I am not trying to be snarky, or anything but truthful when I say that every good quality man I know, or have known, who is monogamous minded, is dating or married to women their exact age or younger. I do have a few friends that married women just a few years older, like 2 to 5 years, and every one of them ended up divorced.
I myself prefer a woman my age to just a few years younger, and would possibly marry a woman a few years older, but she would have to be extremely exceptional in that she would have to basically be out of my league. Since I do get dates with women who are pretty good looking, the woman would have to be model good looking.
If I weren’t monogamous minded, I would probably be far more willing to lower my standards, and date woman of almost any age so long as she was reasonably attractive.
As to women looking better at an older age. The phrase was something about “most 45 year old men do not look as good as the exceptional women their age.” Well news flash, most 45 year old women don’t look as good as the exceptional men their age. Take an honest look at the profiles of your peers. Most are not exceptional looking women.
I am amazed by the amount of denial I see. You find older men hideous, and yet you don’t think that younger guys feel the same about older women? See, men have the ability to do something women seem for the most part, incapable of. They can look at a woman who is not all that physically attractive and have sex with her. I have known men my age and younger to have contests that I refused to participate in where the object is to have sex with the fattest, or ugliest woman they can. I never saw the appeal. It would seem that having much lower standards for sex obviously has to do with the whole biology and getting genes into the next generation. For men the biological strategy is like a shotgun, while for women it is like a sniper. Neither is really superior as each makes sense for each gender.
Getting a man into bed is as easy as breathing. Getting him to marry you, now that’s the real challenge. But the caveat there is that so many now come from broken homes, even that is becoming less of a challenge because they have the attitude that they will just get divorced when the relationship is no longer fun. So let me rephrase that. The real challenge is getting a man to marry you and stay with you for many years without cheating.
Bottom line is that many women on here seem to range from 30s to 50s. You really do have to be honest about what you want, and where you fall into the pecking order. If you are decent looking but not exceptional, you can date younger men who are high quality but the likelihood of a monogamous or long lasting marriage is very very slim. I don’t think you have to date older, but if you want to marry, you are going to be more secure by dating somebody your own age, or just a bit older. If you really do want to find marriage sooner rather than later, and want it to have a better than average chance of lasting, younger men is not your best bet. I’m not saying to not be open to it if nothing else is happening for you, but so many now seem to be stuck on having to have a younger guy. You get a half dozen “fun” relationships with younger guys and become addicted to it like sugar.
My honest belief is that there will be a lot of women who are 50+ who will end up at home cleaning after a string of younger men. At some point, those younger men find their confidence and begin to look more for women their own age or younger. If that is not successful, they too choose to opt out of relationships, or look in other places.
So to each their own, but at least be aware of the realities. The reality is that men too prefer younger women, so if a younger man is with you, you do have to be suspicious, but only if you are seriously looking for marriage.
To the statement that, “I don’t want to be a cougar I want a relationship with a younger man.” We don’t all get what we want. Most young men want sex with a hot cougar and nothing more, and they are getting it. So don’t be surprised if life doesn’t work out the way you want it to. I know how women react on here, I’ve read it. men just need to get in step with the times. Well, they are. The times are that sex is cheap and easy to come by. They are getting exactly what they want. I just wish men were more honest. I know some women would still partake, but I think many would not if you knew how these men often talk about you behind your backs, when they are only around men they know they can trust. Men who honor the Bro-Code.
I hate that this is so long but this topic is not a simple one.
kathleen says
Jason
The women I know who date younger in my area of S CA are not doormats who accept the misfits and undesirables of the world They are pretty savvy, assertive and attractive women. All of them are not interested in having more children. Men of any age can go from woman to woman wanting sex only.
My friend followed Evan advice and is now living with a younger guy in a serious relationship. She eliminated anyone quickly , regardless of age. who wasnt relationship oriented and committal.
I like what Evan says about being a CEO of your own life. I think who you accept or dont accept can have a far greater impact than worrying about your age.
Helen says
Who said anything about marriage! Been there, done that! For me, marriage would be a financial risk, plus, I like my “me” time! The point is, I cannot understand why I should have to conform to someone other people’s rules on how I live my life!
tamara says
@kathleen: I agree that having self-respect and knowing what u will accept and what u won’t is v impt. Anyone–male or female, younger or older, will have bad dating lives when they lack self respect.
@Helen: “You can have the old ones and I the young ones” Haha ok minor clarification, I don’t seek out ‘older’ men, my previous bf was a yr younger. Just wanna make it clear that i’m not specifically preying on vulnerable men who’ve been rejected by women like u. 🙂
Also, none of us have asked u to conform to rules on how to live ur life. I’d never do that; my friends and family laugh at my ‘hippie’ ways. If u think that was what us naysayers were saying, I think u’re not so gd at sensing nuances.
Aurora says
Just curious what you consider a bit older. Less than 10 years?
ML says
“I myself prefer a woman my age to just a few years younger, and would possibly marry a woman a few years older, but she would have to be extremely exceptional in that she would have to basically be out of my league. Since I do get dates with women who are pretty good looking, the woman would have to be model good looking.”
An age difference of 2 years is big when you are a teenager.
A few years older or younger in your twenties, and later is negligible. Oh, I see, maybe we should compare the age difference in months? Oh, she is one month and 3 days older than me, oh, nooo!
kathleen says
Karmic
What you found is exactly what i found with men my age. I like athletic men in great shape The couple of men my age who I was attracted to and interested in werent looking for a relationship. So for me also I left with more choices with younger attractive in shape men I dont want marriage. I like sex and a relationship also
Helen … You go girl!!! Enjoy the young ones!!! “if you obey all the rules ,you miss all the fun” Hepburn.
Karmic Equation says
There was one guy my age who was hot, but was in an open relationship. I’m not interested in being the 3rd wheel. If I’m gonna be in an open relationship, I’m going to be the primary. haha
Recently had a first date with a hot firefighter, who’s 48 but also looks young for his age and much better than his pix. Problem is he’s not even legally separated. He’s staying married to keep his 16 yo son on his medical. His not-ex lives in a different state, so for all intents and purposes he’s single. Due to conflicting schedules, scheduling a 2nd date has been problematic. But we’ll see where this leads. And I’m still dating my boy toy until it leads somewhere good. If it doesn’t who cares? YOLO 😀
kathleen says
Great post world traveler #95
I think stigma about older women younger men still persists but its changing There are more and more women like your friend. Im similar to her except Im older . As I understand it, the brains mechanism for love doesn’t depend on chronological age.
Tamara …What are the old blokes to do?…. Get in great shape ! Id never turn down a guy my age or a couple of years older if he kept himself in as great shape as many women have had to at my age in the single world
Helen says
…old blokes…hit the gym and get in great shape? LOL they would first need to have surgery to separate the tv remote from their hand!
Evelyn says
World Traveler-love it! Excellent point!!!
Stacy says
@World Traveler
So you’re saying that Evan should LIE because he may turn off a potential client? I never understand this perspective. Evan never said women over 40 aren’t fabulous. What he is saying is that if you are in your late 40s (using the woman who wrote him as an example) who WANTS to settle down, chances are, it won’t happen with a 30 year old no matter how ‘fabulous’ you are or look. Sheesh. It’s the TRUTH. Why would you want someone to tell you differently? Most 30 year olds will settle down with someone around their own ages (statistically) and would not want a woman long term who can no longer have kids and who is old enough to be his mother. Stop expecting Evan and other people to baby you and sell you a dream. Be grateful that as a coach, he keeps it real unlike so many out there. And trust me, this is coming from someone who at times disagrees with him and I am 39 years old myself.
Plus, I am sure you already know how to tell yourself that you are fabulous.
Persephone says
World Traveler at 95… BRAVO!!!!
I am so weary of women such as your friend being bashed.
Violet Red says
I am in my 50s and can relate to what AM is saying. I’m good looking and still have a sexy body which allows me to receive compliments from guys of all ages. But I don’t think I can get the type of affection, conversation, etc. from someone in their 30s. Even men in their 40s are acting way younger and not as established as men were at that age years ago. I too am having a problem with not being attracted to men my age because many are fat with huge beer bellies and are as arrogant and egotistical as they were when they used to have abs. The bottom line is without that initial attraction you’ve got nothing.
At this point the only thing to do is to continue to date a variety of men of all ages and professions, etc. Eventually, we will make a love connection.
zinna says
I wonder why the older guys Karmic mentioned won’t even buy a bottle of hair dye or go get a dye job?- geez that’s one thing that ain’t that difficult.
If you don’t want to date, ok, but why handicap yourself with something that doesn’t even take much work to maintain? `
I don’t get it.
I have few greys and they never see the light of day. ;p
Karmic Equation says
It wasn’t so much that the the guy was all grey. I took issue with the fact that he used old pictures. If he had even ONE current picture, I would have made a more informed decision. I don’t mind dating a grey-haired dude if I was expecting to meet a grey-haired dude. But if I’m expecting to meet a guy who looks 40, but instead he turns up looking 50 because his grey hair ages him that much, that’s a different story 🙂
Stacy Cole says
Hey AM. I think anything is possible. I am 33 and my boyfriend is 22. Neither one of us were looking but we worked together on a musical project and fell in love. It’s been 2 years, with a lot of ups and downs, and we might be headed for marriage. We really love each other. I think that a relationship is not about age, it’s about growing together. Life is right now, I would say find a man who really loves you and no matter what his age is, he will stay with you forever. Do what you need to do to enjoy your life right now. We only have a short time here and the present moment is all there really is. So enjoy life! If you enjoy younger men, go for it! The right man for you will form into a relationship, no matter what his age is. You just might find one who is closer to your age, but who cares? Who cares about the age, that’s all I’m saying. It’s the person, not the age, that matters.
The Truth Hurts But Needed says
EVAN, I super read what you had to share, and would never purposely appease or patronize you. Everything you said was near perfect and, with good taste. IF she does not appreciate these words of wisdom it is her loss. I have very quickly made a list below and I’m sure there are other issues I didn’t think of such as Our Ancestors over centuries would deem Cougars frankly, insane, or possessed or even evil. I personally believe that there is something deeply rooted in this new phenomenon that can be linked to pedophilia … anyway, here’s the list:
Here are the facts about Cougars whom because of their gender escape being called “creeps”
1. Middle aged females are doing this because they have their own Income (ie. Careers), therefore assets (ie. house, car, travel) too; particularly, if separated/divorced receiving support from one or more EXs.
2. They may also have dependent child(ren), which usually or can place a dampener on any potential everlasting Cougarville
3. With so many single Moms all over western culture, when the nest becomes empty, their being so accustomed to having children around they controlled plus their daughter(s) male dates too, they have become narcissistic about their own self-worth causing delusions of grandeur leading to going after younger men
4. There could also be a percentage of pedophilia involved due to not having a husband around and IF you do not think this is possible, you go do the research w.r.t. its prevalence and, this will not tell you the entire story behind closed doors
5. If she is so called “hot” for her age, this only serves to intensify her delusions into a self-serving Cougar cree
6. Connected to #5, men can bear children easily into their 40s and so if, he has no child but eventually wants one, this will exclude females late 30s or at least 40 and up for long term relationship so it’ll not last and IF the female is an old Cougar in your 50s and up, he has a better chance of already having child(ren) and paying Child Support with scars to deep to heal
7. Boys being raised by only their Moms obviously have a much greater chance of being sucked into such a relationship with no fatherly mentor, which is just another notch in feminists victory of not just men but sometimes young adolescents too.
8. These females often are just trying to spite or get back at men for wanting attractive women, which are almost always younger ladies, however…
9 This does not have to be the case yet it is because middle aged (even some women in their 30s too), cut their hair, gain weight to the point where obesity is an epidemic yet, they think they’re thin when weight average when overweight. Drinking is a national pastime as is eating Junk Foods. The body part they exercise the most is often their vocal chords (not singing).
10. Hollywood starlets like Demi and Madonna, using sex to sell movies and music, have managed to brainwash women around the country that “age is just a number” so they too can have men 10 to (as young as they can lure them in) using the list above.
11. IF the relationship doesn’t last, they at least now have a sexual or power trip fantasy they can muster up from their imaginations if and when they become aroused.
12. Daughters of these women, will either copy-cat their Mons as they mature or, will be attracted to their Mom’s boy toys and vice versa and so, then what?
13. As Cougar relationships grow, these younger men will lose out on having children and so this is completely destructive for family-life.
14. Females may live longer by a few years on average however, they also have a much harder time sustaining their once youthful physical attractiveness too; due to many factors.
15. They also tend to dry up after menopause, which is a medical fact.
16. Often these boys’ (or younger men’s) parents and extended family PLUS the Cougars’ too, think they’re nuts and feel upset towards them.
17. Cougars, more often than not have had multiple, many, or countless sex partners. Whatever happened to the news networks and health system warning us about AIDS & STDs? Is it worth it young men, when you have ladies your own age to date?
18. IF a Cougar ever sucked my son in, she’d hear from me immediately.
19. IF every family STILL had a father under the same roof as was the case for the vast majority of families not so long ago in our past, this latest experiment would never be happening. In fact, there would be some choice words used to describe Cougars in booting them out of family lives
20. So this is your latest orchestrated conquest to destroy families, feminism. Go ahead, we’ll soon see who suffers.
Kathleen says
“the Truth Hurts ” 99
What a tirade of misogynist drivel.
Im in my 50s and have dated younger. I have no kids. The younger guys Ive had relationships with DO NOT want children.
What on earth does a woman being” so called hot” have to do with her delusions?
RE STDs I was with one man over 24 years and a younger guy for 5 years.
You know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about and sound pretty uneducated. Guess what women do have more economic power now and we have the vote. Thats not going to change!!!
Im amazed at some of the misogynist trolls who show up on Evans blogs
Aurora says
Hahahaha! I know right??? Can you feel the scorn and wrath coming from “truth hurts 99” lol? I’m wondering if it’s a man or woman who wrote all that diatribe full of disgust.
Can you hear the butthurt in that persons writing LMAO? I sure can and it tickles me pink and tickles my pink as well lol!!!Persephone says
To Aurora and Kathleen: My sisters! “The Truth Hurts” is spouting sour grapes soaked in bile. Could it be that “older” women are not one-size-fits-all, and that there are many women who look freakishly young?
A man 23 years old asked me out. His friends asked why I would not go out with him. I told him I would be embarrassed for someone that young. They thought I was being silly, and that 10 or 15 years was not that much. I hated to break it to them, but I am a decade older than what they think. this is not an isolated situation. If i try to discuss it on this thread, y’all will say I am arrogant.
ML says
yes, some do dry up after menopause, and some can’t get it up
Jena says
Well I’ve been there done that for sure. I found myself single again at 47, and yes I’m young looking for my age. I got caught up in the attention from younger hot men and dated quite a few along with some hot men my age. I wound up in a 4 year relationship with a very, very handsome man in his 20’s. We got along great, both of our families approved and all seemed great. But ladies let me tell you something, after the flush of new romance wears off and the reality of everyday life and responsibilities kicks in you will start to see a difference in a young guy. You may feel young and fit in your late 40’s but eventually menopause will rear it’s ugly head, and your hormones will change not only your body but your sex drive. A young man will not stay faithful or will leave the relationship eventually unless he is an extremely unique individual. My young man and I split on good terms, but it’s been terribly hard on both of us. We actually really did love each other but just couldn’t continue down a path that did not have a happy ending. It’s caused me a lot of heartache but I don’t regret a moment we spent together. I think the older you get the harder it gets to maintain a youthful vibrant look. I don’t want to get dumped by a younger guy when I’m in my 60’s! I’m having do a lot of self-reflection and pretty much do what Evan is saying and get off my high horse while I still look great and can attract someone closer to my own age. I don’t want the stress of worrying about every little wrinkle that appears, or feel bad that I don’t have the sex drive of a 20 year old. My man never made me feel bad about my age, I did that myself, and it was hurting my self esteem. I actually want to grow old gracefully with someone that isn’t afraid to watch. I am determined to find someone closer to my age that I am attracted to. I think it’s time to focus on what’s special about someone other than their looks. I might have to wait a long time but I think it will be worth it in the end.
Samantha Labens says
I find the response to this question to be exceptionally rude and I feel bad for the women who received it.If the original poster is reading this love is not based on age,gender, religion…its based off of this simple question do they love you and do you love them if so live your life:)
Karlene says
Well here’s my brief experience with younger men. I am 48. I went to a bar down the street to sing karaoke because my voice coach said “I am kicking you out of this nest go start singing in front of people.” At 47 I started singing something I have always wantes to do. To be a singer’s singer we are not talking wanna be.
So the bar dowm the street has karaoke every night and much to my chagrin filled with 20 somethings. Feeling a bit out of place I kept to myself and observed while waiting my turn. It was amazing both sexes were throwing themselves all over each other in obviously sexually. Straddling pool cues, twerking it was tragic but a little funny. So a group of mixed company invited me to their table that were waiting to sing as well. I thought okay why not I will by like the cool aunt.
So all I heard was gossip women critcizing other women, men talking about who they were going to buy a drink, first job interviews….I thought “Dear God noone in this bar is going to know the artists whose songs I am going to do Stevie Wonder, Eric Clapton, Linda Ronstadt” So here is the kicker this guy started hitting on me buying me a drink etc. I told him it was not going to go anywhere that I was old enough to be his mother.
Here is how stupid he was first of all he asked me “How old are you?” When I told him he walked around to my back checked out my ass and get this he said “Damn you’re well get this preserved.” I laughed because apparently I am old enough to be a mummy or a jar of apricot preserves. So is that proof enough about younger guys are looking for in preserved older women.
Secondly, my voice coach is 23 reads classic literature comma we have so many things in common it’s ridiculous. And he has knowledge of my Generations music and as a musician. So you know why would not be attracted. But when I how the fantasy of sleeping with him it also includes waking up the next morning and hearing the line from Maggie May, ” the morning sun when it’s in your face really shows your age.” Fantasy ruined.
I want a man more around my age that has the same interests as me some different interests then I have that we can share and learn from each other. And when I have that fantasy Rod Stewart never comes to mind.
kath says
Karlene 102
You are a funny writer!! Your voice coach sounds great!
You said that that because the young guy looked at your preserved ass , that was proof of what younger men are looking for…….. I actually think that is proof of what all men are looking for … the fact that he’s young isn’t any different from most any other guy. You still have it going on!!
Been there says
You can find younger men looking for a serious relationship, but how likely it is to happen depends how you define younger, life stages and where you’re looking.
Evan is being harsh, when women think of younger they include what would be for a man a perfectly acceptable range of say 5 years younger, but men will call a woman dating a 5 year younger man a “cougar”, it’s a double standard. For a man to date a 5 year older woman of hes used to 5 years younger youll be 10 years older than his usual date so keep that in mind when choosing, you want someone who dates across the age range who won’t see it as a problem.
You need to identify your strengths and work to them, a younger woman will be percieved as wanting children where the men youre interested in may already have them and not want more for example. Another edge is if you take care of yourself and are clean living where women his age party and take drugs. Younger does not automatically mean more attractive and a few solid months of snorting one thing or another will add a decade to a previously stunning young woman, as will tanning, smoking, yoyo diets or general self abuse. You’ll do better in person, online age will kill your chances unless you lie about your age and hope he has too and gets why. In person you get to see who is really attracted to you and who you’re attracted to and calibrate your search to suit.
In the older age groups women are leaning toward young husbands, the reports I’m getting is they are both very happy. The older women get the more it happens but it does seem to be with men who either already have a family or don’t want to have kids, and there are plenty of them around getting frustrated ending ip on dates with women who do, by the time they meet someone older it’s a relief not to have to plead their case.
Aurora says
I’m 46 years old and absolutely gorgeous with an athletic, hourglass figure and tight booty. I’m an amazing dancer and very sexy. If I could find a guy my age and older that matches me aesthetically and is just as vibrant, I’d totally go for it, but unfortunately there are men that are a few years younger than me that look like they can be a young father to me. I’m just not turned on by it. There are men younger than me who are incredibly into me, not just physically, but I’m so much fun it’s as if they are with someone their age or younger.
When it comes to baggage, younger men have it as well and I actually believe the younger ones haven’t properly dealt with those issues yet, but I’m not bothered by it.
Sex is very important to me in a relationship and I need to feel I’m with my equal aesthetically or I’ll never enjoy it to the fullest.
Aurora says
And yes, at 46 I still go clubbing and I blend in perfectly. No one believes I’m 46. Yes, I’m drunk with flattery LMAO!
Evan Marc Katz says
You’re also drunk with unrealistic expectations. Your “aesthetic equal” is probably not looking for you. Nor is he necessarily good in bed. Nor is there any indication that hot men are of higher character than normally attractive men. So perhaps consider going out with a 7 in chemistry and landing a 10 in compatibility, instead of holding out for a 10 in chemistry and realizing that you’ve spent your entire life alone because of your self-imposed desire for a “gorgeous” man.
Persephone says
Dear Evan, I have adored you, your cuteness, your videos, and your blog for almost a year now.
But Ouch!
I could be that same woman. I could be Aurora, with a couple sentence changes. There are those fairy-tale seemingly immortal women among us who are real. Looking young and beautiful is what most women believe they desire, but “be careful what you ask for,” because it is also a curse.
I get where Aurora is coming from. It is frustrating. If an 8 or 10 female gets into a relationship with a 6 or less guy, the guy is going to turn mean and controlling on her.
I have tried to submit posts describing my misery, but you never approve them. Maybe you should do a thread on those of us who really do look freakishly young and beautiful, to our detriment. But if you did, it would be full of people bashing them, saying things like “I never met a women who was a 10 who was not self-centered.” A woman tried to beat me up, and she pulled my hair, because she was jealous of me just simply for being me–but for being the only female at my job, who also happened to be her husband’s coworker.
It is not isolated to one gender. My ex-husband looked like Antonio Banderas, and the men in the clubs would try to pick fights with him. After our divorce, my neighbor in town admitted they referred to us as “Barbie and Ken.” That hurt. The same neighbors refused to get to know me, until after my mother’s death and my divorce, when I saw her out in the yard the morning of Thanksgiving, and gave her a sob story about me being alone on a holiday. (Oh, right, because I was beautiful, it must have been that I was alone out of selfishness.)
We as a society say that we like beautiful people, but then we treat them bad, or as a 1 dimensional character. We humans are so jealous by nature that we ignore their skills, their accomplishments, their kindness.
Helen says
I am in the same situation, I have already had my family and not looking for a husband. I am not attracted to men my own age, I forced myself to have sex with a couple of them but felt disgusted with myself and during the act I would shut my eyes so I would not look at them. I am ONLY attracted to young men, some young men like older women. I take good care of myself, hit the gym and have had cosmetic surgery. As I have never tanned my skin is still good. Yes, most young men are only after sex, but, I cant see why that is so terrible for many people! Evan might disagree but sex is important and there is nothing wrong with a woman liking sex as much as a man does. I have decided to no longer pursue a society approved “committed relationship” with an “age appropriate” man, as there’s no point in it for me. I decided to just go with the flow and enjoy the rest of my life!!!!
Aurora says
Persephone
Also, I’m not even looking for a guy that’s 15 years younger lol. I’ve had relationships with guys 12 years younger and they’ve lasted. Btw they still aren’t in a serous relationship. I’m seeing someone now who’s 8 years younger. Definitely not cougarville for sure. We gew up in the same era.
dustin says
I’m 30 goodlooking fit and I’m more attracted to older woman not just sexually love the maturity and love the way they make me feel
Taylor says
While I do agree with people that does sound good to brag yourself so much and the reasons she gives do come off a bit shallow, but I do think are making the mistake of judging her as being shallow for wanting to date a much younger guy and that they aren’t compatible. I think Evan is overstating that nearly everyone 30-year old man is not ready for a relationship. Maybe a majority, I know quite few guys younger than that have been in long term relationships. Just because most 30 year olds see older women as sex fling, doesn’t mean they all do. Hugh Jackman at 28 married a woman 13 years his senior and they are still together. Also look up Jason Momoa and Aaron Taylor Johnson. The problem with taking statistics too seriously, is that people use it to jump conclusions that majority or even large percentage means 100%. Call her it out for reasons, but don’t try to shame over the age difference. Saying she will only find love through someone close to her age is just dumb. And just because she is 40 doesn’t automatically she mean can’t keep up or outdue fit younger her. There are 40 year old professional boxers that can fight 12 rounds. Karl R made the mistake of assuming what’s true for some is true for all. So my point, both her and the judgmental people need to get over themselves.
Taylor says
And another thing, I understand her point about her age. While some are still active and outgoing, there are quite people who become boring and lose their inner child. While you should be serious about life, being too serious can rob of your joy and turn you into different person. A common complaint I hear from women in their late 30s is that too many men they meet in the 40s act like tired old men that don’t much effort anymore.
Persephone says
, I stand firmly by my belief that age does not matter. I was fully transparent with in a relationship I had with a guy I met at a club. . It’s not my fault he guessed me to be around 21 when he met me. I was actually 35. He never asked my age, and I never asked his. We just plain and simple liked each other. I never lied to him. Some of this goes contrary to what some posters on her claim–that men like to keep thing simple and that it is women who complicate things. If men want to keep things so simple, they should just simply enjoy their partner wihout all these age and income perameters.
jake says
Quote: “he will look back upon fondly one day when he tells his younger wife the tale of the oldest woman he ever bedded.”
WRONG!! He is never going to tell his new wife that.!!! LOL
He’ll brag to his mates, yes. But his wife… are you insane?
Linda says
Dating is a “free market economy” where there is a match or not. Age is one variable just like $, height, looks, etc. They can all be trade offs. The only iffi part is child bearing years or not. If an older guy can get a younger woman-great. If an older woman can get a younger guy- great. Both genders need to be careful of the long term chances of cheating and divorce.
Question: Evan, if a guy lists an age range that is 20 years younger than him to max 10 years younger in his profile, is this a major red flag about him ??????
Evan Marc Katz says
No.