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Abigail
If I were your boyfriend, I’d dump you in a heartbeat. You’d be gone so fast from my life that you’d get whiplash trying to follow my ass out the door.
Dear Abigail,
First I want to share a brief story about someone I know.
She was in love with her boyfriend, but her boyfriend was preoccupied with his mother, who was dying of cancer. Each time he flew back to see his mom on her deathbed, my friend couldn’t help but feel strangely jealous that he wasn’t spending time with her. When he’d return from his weekend trips, he’d get a passive-aggressive guilt trip. She knew he was under stress, but she had needs, too. How can she feel secure about their future when he’s spending half his time focusing on things other than her?
He broke up with her before his mom passed away. She was heartbroken, but couldn’t help the way she felt. Of course, she was 19 at the time, so she had an excuse.
I don’t know how old you are, but I’m hoping you’re 19 as well. Which means you’re going to have a long time to recover from what I’m about to say to you next:
If I were your boyfriend, I’d dump you in a heartbeat.
You’d be gone so fast from my life that you’d get whiplash trying to follow my ass out the door.
I’ll bet you’re wondering how I could say such a thing. After all, he’s YOUR boyfriend. Why should you have to worry about exes and fathers-in-law and sons and paperwork? Shouldn’t he be ALL YOURS?
Um, no.
Let’s look at a tale of the tape:
You: 6 week girlfriend. Likely cute. Maybe insecure. Probably needy. Definitely clueless about anybody else’s perspective and needs besides your own.
Him: A poor confused wuss with a big heart and a wide loyalty streak who was probably dominated by his ex and is now signing up to be dominated by you. Lucky guy.
So now, by your logic, since this guy’s been sleeping with you for six weeks, he should just summarily CUT OFF the very pillars of his former life?
Everyone Else: Has been in his life WAAAAAAAAY before you arrived. His wife’s been around for probably 6+ years, as has her father. Both know him incredibly well and care deeply about him. All are bound by the presence of a beloved 3-year-old boy.
So now, by your logic, since this guy’s been sleeping with you for six weeks, he should just summarily CUT OFF the very pillars of his former life?
Because YOU’RE threatened and jealous, he should refuse to console his ex?
Because you’re unreasonably demanding, he should have no relationship with his son’s grandfather?
Can you see how narrow-minded and selfish you sound? It’s all about YOUR needs. Screw anyone who gets in the way – including your boyfriend, whom you’re already bullying about his divorce.
Here’s the deal, Abigail:
If he wants you as a girlfriend, if he wants to sign divorce papers, if he wants to prioritize you above everyone else, it will be because HE chooses to do so, not because you browbeat him.
His world doesn’t revolve around you.
Not after 6 weeks – and, if he’s got any guts, not for much longer.
I sincerely hope you take a different approach to understand the needs of the next man in your life.
JuJu says
Wow! And I mean, wow!
After only 6 weeks I’d even have reservations calling someone my boyfriend, let alone make such demands on his time and his priorities!
Angela says
Marc,
I loooove your response. So on point!!!!!!!! Can yo believe 6 hold weeks. He should drop her ass___. ASAP!!!!!
Steve says
Abigal;
There are plenty of full available men out there. There is no reason to date someone who is married or otherwise taken. You deserve to have someone all to yourself. If he isn’t ready for that, move on. After all, as Evan wrote, you have only been seeing him for 6 weeks.
JuJu says
There is no reason to date someone who is married or otherwise taken. You deserve to have someone all to yourself.
Well, obviously, but that so isn’t the point here.
She knew what she was getting herself into from the outset. (Supposedly.)
Paul says
Frankly, after only 6 weeks, only children would call each other boyfriend or girlfriend. I mean come on! Your dating and that’s about it. And dating is not exclusive. Courtship is, and you have to be in a position to court…and being married isn’t one of them! Dating is simply introducing yourselves to each other to see if there is enough desire, compatability, etc., to move forward. When you are exclusive, you are courting…with an eye usually towards marriage.
Great response Evan!
Sayanta says
whoa- Evan. That response is awesome!
happy girl says
Great response and as always very much to the point. He does have child with his ex and so the ties will never be severed. And Evan is right…he had a while life before he even met you.
I would think that your relationship does not have much of a chance if you remain the way you are right now.
Life does not revolve only around you.
Besides…it this does not suit you, you also have the choice to move on and find another “boyfriend”.
Good luck
Rachelle says
WOW! I will pick my jaw up from the floor. Great advice!
Honey says
I think the BF and I had the boyfriend/girlfriend talk after about 3 or 4 months. 6 weeks is VERY soon.
How could anyone ever demand that someone cut the other half of his son’s family out of his life?
Honey´s last blog post…What I Want vs. What I Want
Seductress Within says
I hope he gets back with his wife. It sounds like he may be unsure about the divorce since the papers lay there.
At any rate, if I were him, I’d dump her too.
casualencounters.com/blog says
So awesome. Evan gets 5 stars for this one from me.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…Alt.com – yours in Christ
kenley says
Unless this letter was edited so that we didn’t get to read everything she wrote, I think Evan’s response was overly harsh and mean.
Perhaps six weeks was too soon for her to ask her guy to get a divorce, but he had been separated for over a year. So, I don’t necessarily think she should be sent off to Prison for Self Centered Women for that offense.
She said she was uncomfortable with her guy consoling his soon to be ex wife — I didn’t read anywhere in the letter that she said she didn’t ever want him seeing the wife again or doing anything with her and his son. Many people know that when ex’s console each other, sex often enters into the picture. So, if she was saying, hey “I don’t feel comfortable with you having sex with your soon to be ex wife while you are having sex with me” I don’t think that is an unreasonable request.
Also, I don’t believe that I read anything in the post that said she didn’t want this guy to see his father in law. She just mentioned that he got together with the father in-law twice in one week. She didn’t say that she didn’t think the guy should cut off all contact with them. Perhaps I am missing something because all I saw was a letter from a woman who felt that perhaps she was dating a guy who was still very much tied up with his wife and her family so perhaps he wasn’t really ready to let the marriage go. She therefore wanted to know if she move on to someone without those entanglements. I guess I don’t understand why people think this woman was so horrible and selfish for wanting a man who was not still so emotionally attached to his wife. Most women don’t want a man who is emotionally attached to his ex wife and most men don’t want women who are still emotionally attached to their ex husbands. Why are people picking on this lady for wanting what most people want?
And, I’m sorry, but comparing a woman who gets angry with a guy for visiting his dying mother to a woman who doesn’t feel comfortable with a man consoling his ex wife because her boyfriend dumped her is just not fair. I don’t know many women who would be all that happy about a guy consoling his soon to be ex for getting dumped — that’s what mothers, sisters, and girlfriends are for. But I do know plenty of women who would be very supportive of, and patient with, a man who was losing his mother.
Dee says
Exactly.
Lily says
Yes, exactly! Well put.
Honey says
@ Kenley, #12 – I read it pretty much the way Evan did. If you look at her letter, what she said was not that she was uncomfortable with him consoling his ex wife, she was uncomfortable with him having her over for dinner. And it seems that him catching up with the father-in-law was the precipitating event for her asking him to finalize the divorce.
It sounds like he has done a great job ending the marriage amicably – isn’t that a good thing? Why does someone who hasn’t even been with the guy for two months shitting all over that?
Honey´s last blog post…What I Want vs. What I Want
Sayanta says
Kenley-
I have to say- I got carried away with Evan’s acid humor in his response, but you bring up some good points that most of us probably didn’t think of right away. See, I personally would never get involved with someone who had an ex-wife and kids, so I can’t even imagine being in that position, what I would do, etc.
But the girl in the ‘dying mother’ story really was just selfish beyond belief.
Diana says
While I found Evan’s response great to read, I am more in line with Kenley’s response. My first thought was, “What is a separated man who is clearly still emotionally involved with his soon-to-be-ex, as he’s concerned with comforting her over “her” breakup, doing with a new girlfriend?!” I personally think the girl should leave the guy because whether she’s being too demanding, etc., he is not ready to move to that next chapter of his life. Guys show their truest heart through action; not words.
julie says
These scenarios — ie, “questions” — Evan answers seem extreme (and perhaps made up?). Aren’t there any normal people with more relatable problems out there?
Evan Marc Katz says
@Kenley – They’ve been together for 6 weeks. She has no right to say anything about anything.
@Julie – Yes, there are normal people. This letter is from a very normal person who feels entitled to her feelings. If you feel her situation is unrelatable, feel free to ask me a “normal” question that you’d like to see answered.
SheaLuna says
I totally agree that after just six WEEKS of dating, she’s got no right to demand anything of her “boyfriend”. I mean, come on. Six weeks? Even if they’ve gone out together twice each week, that’s only 12 total dates. A little early to be calling someone a “boyfriend”, let alone demanding how they should live their lives.
On the other hand, it does sound as if the “boyfriend” is still not quite over his almost ex-wife or the relationship. Certainly it sounds like he’s not ready for a new relationship. I definitely agree with Kenley that a guy who is not quite ready to get a divorce isn’t the same thing as a guy whose mother is dying from cancer.
You have the absolute right to want what you want, whatever that may be and however selfish it may sound to others. The letter writer wants someone who is committed completely to her and isn’t dragging a lot of baggage around. Having dated men with children and ex-wives (or nearly ex-wives), I can completely understand this. When you’re a single, divorced, or separated woman with no kids and no relationship with ex-husbands or whatever, it can be difficult to deal with someone who is still wrapped up in so much of his old life and has important committments like children. And you know what? That’s totally ok. It’s not greedy or selfish. It’s what you want and people want what they want.
However, the way to go about getting what you want isn’t to demand that your “boyfriend” of just six weeks get divorced immediately and cut off all contact with his ex-wife or former in-laws. The way to get what you want is to find someone who wants the same things you want. Someone who doesn’t have kids and isn’t in a relationship with his ex-wife (or whatever) and former in-laws. The letter writer needs to let this guy go so he can deal with his stuff and find someone who is happy to take on the responsibility of being a good role model for his son, and so that she (the letter writer) can find a guy who has no kids, no ex-wife, no father-in-law he meets for golf (or whatever) twice a week. Someone who is more than happy to make her his number one priority.
Sally says
Marc, you are spot on with your advice. If she is that bossy and controlling and jealous and insecure after only 6 weeks, think how she will be after 6 months. He needs to run run run away as fast as he can.
Sally says
Or she needs to run, run, run.
Sally says
This comes back to if this isnt the kind of relationship she wants then she needs to end it. Ive been there and done that. It usually doesnt change because he isnt sure.
Sally says
Oops, make that Evan. Blonde girl early in the morning before coffee. Sorry 🙁
JB says
Yeah Evan, I kind of agree with Julie in that some of these questions you “get emailed to you” seem so ridiculous that it’s hard for us to believe these people ever read or heard your stuff. But I know even you couldn’t make these goofy scenario’s up. I think what Julie is saying is that their has to be some people emailing that have more intelligent mature questions that us “advanced daters” might learn something from rather than an 18 or 19 yr. old etc….that’s all.
In the opening paragraph this woman is telling this guy she’s “uncomfortable” with something after 2 WEEKS …..Puhhhhleeezzz
In my life 2 weeks is TWO DATES ….lol and most women would have no idea where or what I was doing in the interim. You know why?? It’s none of their business but of course a 19 yr. old probably doesn’t know that. Seperated is NOT divorced. Throw in a 3 yr.old and the ex is there for 20 more years. FOREVER. If you don’t like it there’s millions of guys who aren’t married and have no kids. Go find one.
searchingwithin says
It amazes me how quickly people proclaim someone as their boyfriend. Two weeks of dating, and not only has she labeled him as her boyfriend, she is telling him how to live his life. She barely knows this man, how can she possibly even know whether or not she wants to be in some sort of exclusive, or committed relationship? As others have stated, what will she be demanding in 6 months, when she began attempting to re-arrange his behavior after two weeks, which is when he had his ex over for dinner.
Him, on the other hand, has been separated for 1.5 years, and if he, or his ex have not begun steps toward divorcing, there is reason. Neither one of them are ready to move on, and anyone entering into a relationship with either ex, would have reason for concern.
searchingwithin´s last blog post…Seeking Validation and Love Through Men’s Approval
Evan Marc Katz says
I’m surprised at how people think this is ridiculous or even made up. It’s not at all. This is someone else’s pain, which is no less valid than your own. It’s actually quite universal. People tend to be myopic when it comes to dating. We want what we want and we want it now – whether or not our partner agrees. The OP is just narrow-minded and selfish – a trait that doesn’t always change that much between 20 and 40, mind you.
I fail to see the difference between the question of an “advanced dater” and a regular one. So, if you’re an “advanced dater” and you feel quite strongly that none of this advice applies to you, please email me a question, put “advanced dater” in your query, and I will answer your more mature question ASAP.
Thank you.
The Management
Cilla says
I can agree with many of the comments above, from a variety of viewpoints. A few of my thoughts:
1) Abigail certainly sounds like she is being demanding and immature by wanting so much from him so early in the relationship, even by calling him her boyfriend, although everyone’s definition of this seems to vary. Now matter how thin you cook a pancake, however, there are still always two sides. From Abigail’s brief missive, we really don’t what her date has been telling her. For all we know, he has been doing a number on her by calling her his girlfriend and telling her she’s the one he’s always been looking for, blah, blah, blah.
2) The “boyfriend” should probably not be dating if he is not divorced but can’t seem to sign the papers. A man who hedges about finalizing his divorce is different from a man who is still technically married but has every intention of signing the papers and is even looking forward to ending the marriage. That being said, we don’t really know why he is not going through with the divorce, only what Abigail relates to us. Perhaps there are financial matters, etc., that need to be settled, which he prefers not to discuss with Abigail.
3) I agree with Kenley: it doesn’t appear that she is asking him to cut off all contact with his ex and her family; she just doesn’t want him having her over for dinner and “consolation.” If they had been dating longer, this might not be such an unreasonable demand. The consolation part seems to be the most troubling; if he were having her over for dinner to maintain some sense of normalcy and ease the transition for the three year old, that would be a different story.
4) I hope Abigail is not 19, because if she is, she really has no business dating a man with a three-year-old child. Very few 19 year olds could handle that.
5) I think the dying mother example, while related, was more extreme than Abigail’s case and may have influenced readers’ opinions of Abigail.
6) I can completely believe the veracity of this letter, as I dated a man whose ex-wife engaged in literally crazy behavior (self-injury to keep him involved, deliberately sabotaging their custody agreement, internet stalking me, etc.). Many people who are lucky enough to have had only “normal” dating experiences would be incredulous at the issues that can arise.
7) The idea of an “advanced” dater just makes me laugh.
Cilla says
Oops, paragraph #1 s/b “no matter” and “we really don’t know what her date…”
Sorry, not enough coffee in the world today! Glad it’s Friday!
Karl R says
Paul said: (#5)
“Frankly, after only 6 weeks, only children would call each other boyfriend or girlfriend.”
When do you start referring to your date as your girlfriend?
I start using the term when we agree to date exclusively. So far, that’s happened anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months after I started dating someone, so 6 weeks doesn’t sound outrageous to me.
Maybe the words “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” mean something more serious to you. Feel free to enlighten us as to what you think those words ought to mean.
Eathan says
I’ve never understood the need to pursue someone who isn’t available or who won’t close the door on a past relationship.
Eathan´s last blog post…Modern Single Momma Contest
Zann says
Evan — Sorry, but your response struck me as totally out of character for you. One of the things I admire about you is that you’re always straightforward and don’t pussy-foot around when a point needs to be driven home. But tell me how it’s going to help this woman/girl — who, by the way, wrote to you for help — to belittle or shame her? Yea, she’s immature & probably young. If so, she’s not going to take in a word you’ve said because she’ll be too busy reacting to it by being pissed off or embarrased. Isn’t your goal to get people to see how they can be more successful in finding a mature, loving relationship without putting them down? If so, then the burden is on you to be the mature one and set the example — not by condescending & bitch-slapping (think: American Idol) but by giving her advice she can take in & still keep her dignity, so she can do it different next time. And by the way, I don’t think you make up these letters. I find her letter totally believable, mainly because I know lots of women, young and old, who think the guy’s “hers” because he’s taken her on 2 dates. Dumb? Yes. But they’ll learn, and they’ll learn quicker if they get good advice when they ask for it from people like you, Evan, who have the skills they don’t.
Sayanta says
I will say this- Evan’s response seemed a lot more acerbic (though spot-on and humorous) compared to his other replies…almost as if this particular letter hit a nerve somehow.
Selena says
My first thought upon reading this was also, “Wow, is this girl demanding after only 6 weeks! How does she even know they will still be dating after 8?”
I’d wager though that what is really making Abigail uncomfortable is having a “boyfriend” who is STILL MARRIED. Might be an awkward thing to explain to family members, friends, co-workers. Hence the *push* for said bf to get on with it already. And separated for a year and a half? What’s the hold up?
I rather hope Abigail is young ’cause the lesson to be learned here is: it is always a risk to date someone who is separated. Separated is not the same thing as divorced. A lesson learned the earlier the better. People who are separated sometimes find they “aren’t done yet”. And that well might be the case here – separated for a year and a half, but nobody has felt compelled to file? Uh, isn’t that one of those big, red banners we hear about? *I* would have smiled and said politely, “Call me when you’re really single.”
In any case, it doesn’t sound like Abigail quite has the temperment for blended family life at this point in hers and that’s another valuable lesson to learn. You might want to consider slowing down Abigail. What’s the rush?
Selena says
Karl #26 Re: When do you start referring to each other as boyfriend/girlfriend?
I know your question was directed to Paul but, I’d like to answer it too if I may. For me it’s always been when “I love you’s” were exchanged and that was within the first month or two, so 6 weeks doesn’t seem outrageous to me either.
I have to add though, that in these cases we were seeing each other every day, automatically exclusive. The relationships I’ve had where I only saw the guy twice a week or less I considered casual. Within that frame, I didn’t refer to the guy as my boyfriend, rather as someone I was “seeing”. Some relationships do move faster than others. Has been my experience anyway.
Selena
Evan Marc Katz says
Acerbic? Yeah. Too harsh? Perhaps. But advice is an imperfect science, at best. Some people respond to an ass-kicking because it’s the only thing that’ll shake them out of their orbit. Some people just want validation. I didn’t find much in the OP’s original email that I could rightfully validate. It seems plain that a six-week girlfriend does not have the right to dictate the behavior of a new boyfriend. Could I have said, “Listen, sweetie… you just need to find a more emotionally available man?” I suppose. I just don’t think the problem here is HIS availability. To me, the issue is her ability to accept that divorce is complicated and that the end of a marriage doesn’t mean the end of a relationship. Thus, the verbal bitchslap. My sincerest apologies to anyone offended by my tone. Have a wonderful weekend, y’all.
Selena says
It would be helpful if we knew what he actually told her when they first started dating. Maybe he told her the divorce was imminent. Maybe he told her they had delayed it to pay off some debts first. Or to put it into a more favorable tax year. There could have been any number of reasons he gave to give her the impression he would be legally divorced very soon and now, 6 weeks later, she is questioning his sincerity. I would be too if after a 1.5 year separation he said divorce was “a big step”. Well duh. And if he was unsure about getting a divorce why was he dating?
After reading Abigail’s letter a second time it seemed less demanding to me. She simply asked since he hadn’t filed the papers should she ask him again, or move on? I’m interpreting this as asking if his reluctance a sign she is wasting her time with him? Maybe. Best advice would probably be to ask HIM (in a calm, non-demanding, non-judgemental way) if there is a reason he hasn’t filed. If he’s not ready, then he’s not ready and she should base her decision on continuing to date him on his answers.
Jennifer says
@Kenley #12- I completely agree. We are all making a big deal of the six week thing, but notice that her ‘boyfriend’ has no problems with her demands- he hasn’t told her to shove it, or asked her if she’s crazy like it sounds like most people would if your girlfriend of six weeks asked you to do these things. He’s promised to meet her demands. He’s not bothered by the title and timeline. Soime of us may think it’s a bit much, but the two people in the situation clearly don’t.
Which leads me back to Kenley’s response- he has too much attachment to a life he is trying to act like he is done with, and the letter writer is correct to be concerned. She isa bit misguided in thinking that if she just makes him sign the papers everything will be okay, but her gut feeling that he is not really fully available to be with her is correct and she should be concerned and/or leaving.
A-L says
Abigail,
Don’t ask again, just move on. Also, when in a relationship, you may always request something, but never demand. Unless you’re willing to walk. And even then, being demanding is just a pretty sucky characteristic to have.
Karl R & Selena:
Ditto to y’all. I won’t call someone my boyfriend until we’re exclusive. By the six week mark I’m usually seeing someone 3-4 times a week, or more. And my current bf and I became exclusive around the 6-week mark too. So, not all people think that six weeks is too early, though maybe the jury’s out on whether or not I’m a weirdo.
To those who are concerned about the OP’s letter and how Evan responded to it:
All the OP wanted to know was whether she should continue nagging her boyrfriend or just move on. So did Evan give her more than she was asking for? Yes. But it’s also like the woman who asks if she has any lipstick on her teeth but who happens to have a bunch of broccoli stuck in them. You could just answer the question about the lipstick but it would be kind to also mention the broccoli, even though she didn’t ask about it. And her demanding nature is a big red flag for most guys, even if it isn’t one for her current boyfriend. So Evan was right to bring it up. Could he have been gentler about it? Yes. Would that affect how the OP received his message? None of us know. Some people need to be told things very carefully and tactfully, while otherwise need to be slapped across the face with it. Since none of us know Abigail personally, none of us can really say.
In regards to the veracity of the letter and Evan’s questions
I think it’s a real letter. There are probably other people in similar situations. That said, however, I tend to prefer the letters/advice columns that have some of the general/bigger picture dating questions than some of the dating practicalities/minutiae, but maybe that’s just me.
JB says
@Cilla….yes “advanced dater” = someone who’s mature and been dating a number of years and DOES’NT ask “why doesn’t my boyfriend of 5 days who I’m in love with wanna be exclusive with me when we hold hands every day in the cafeteria?” Are’nt we going “steady”?? Yadda,Yadda,Yadda
Sorry if you don’t know the difference,maybe when you’re older you’ll understand that someone that’s been doing something 20 years rather than 3 might be a little more advanced. Btw Evan was an “advanced dater” before he got married…lol
Cilla says
@JB
Re: “… maybe when you’re a little older…” You have no idea how old I am. Just for the record, I’m 47.
Age does not always have bearing on one’s understanding of relationships. I know people who are 20 who are wise beyond their years and people who are 50 who are as socially awkward as pre-adolescents.
If you re-read Evan’s post #23, perhaps you’ll see that even he failed to see the difference between the problems of (self-proclaimed) “advanced daters” and the rest of his readers. I took that to mean that regardless of their dating volume or experience, all daters eventually run into situations that stymie them. I also interpreted his continued use of quotation marks around the phrase “advanced daters” to indicate some sense of skepticism on his part about that term.
There are plenty of people who have been dating for 20 years and consider themselves “advanced daters” by virtue of sheer volume but have not evolved in their comprehension of human nature in the least. Perhaps that is why they are still on the market 20 years later. At some point the term “advanced dater” becomes interchangeable with “aging lothario.”
Selena says
I have to wonder what kind of questions those of us who are “advanced daters” could come up with for Evan? Seems we are more adept at supplementing Evan’s opinions and advice with our own “experienced” ones than coming up with something new and outrageous. lol
JB says
Well that would be ADVANCED aging lothario btw…lol
And because I’m so advanced I don’t have any questions….lol
While I do agree that age isn’t always an indicator of one’s understanding of relationships. The vast majority of people are more likely to have knowledge and experiences the longer they do anything.
For the record I had no problem with Evan’s answer to this gals question like others may have.
Selena says
Does anyone else find it a bit odd that the wife in this equation has had a relationship AND a breakup with a boyfriend when neither one in the couple has even filed for divorce?
Yeah, divorce can be complicated … but, this whole situation seems more off after the first read.
Jelise says
I thought the OP seemed a bit pushy and a little clueless. That said, I find divorced/separated guys really insane when it comes to the exes, so I can very easily imagine that the guy’s behavior regarding his ex is inappropriate and insensitive to the new woman in his life, even if she is a very new woman. I also thought that Evan’s response was out-of-line harsh and unjustifiably accusatory.
casualencounters.com/blog says
Meh. Sometimes you “know” with relationships almost immediately.
The length of time they’ve been together is a non-issue. Unreasonable demands and expectations predicated upon bullshit are issues.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…Weekly Roundup – Top 10 Casual Sex Links from Around the Web
downtowngal says
Hello?!?!? He’s STILL married!
Evan, you would dump her because you’re a decent guy. This guy won’t because he probably enjoys having someone in his life who’s willing to serve at least one of his needs, but he is in now way ready for a relationship. Which means this gal has to make a choice.
I’ve seen all too many times women who get involved with guys in transition – they always get hurt. Could be the nicest guy in the world but at the end of the day you’re still ‘rebound girl’.
Though I think it’s weird for a guy to invite his ex out to dinner w his new gf, this dude doesn’t owe her anything. Get a life.
Slim Pickens says
I’m a guy that’s been separated about 16 months now. I started ‘dating’ after about 6 months of separation, but very quickly came to my senses and stopped. There was definitely a brief period when my priorities were all screwed up, my rebound was at the top of the heap, and my 18 yrs with the soon-to-be-ex be damned. I would have probably agreed to just about anything the rebound wanted.
Obviously this is the recipe for disaster. I came to very quickly though, before any serious damage was done. And the damage that did occur was all self-inflicted.
The Guy in this scenario was telling this 6 wk old friend that okay, he will never have dinner with his ex and kid again. That tells me that he has a very long way to go. He has no business dating right now, he hasn’t learned a very basic lesson. I can sort of understand the long delay between separating and filings, there are many reasons for that. I can understand the temporary insanity thing. But after 1.5 years, something is off here. With both parties. One of them needs to come to their senses, quickly. Perhaps Evan’s sage advice will wake her up. (I doubt it though).
Joe says
Selena asks:
What’s the hold up?
I don’t know about the state where you live, but the one I’m in requires a 12-month minimum period of separation before you can file for divorce.
Also, I’ve seen situations where people separate but don’t divorce until one of them is ready to marry someone else because of benefit reasons (not those kinds of benefits! :-p), such as maintenance of health insurance.
Joe says
Oh, also, in the letter it wasn’t just dinner with his ex, it was dinner with his ex AND their 3-year old kid. That’s not exactly the kind of get-together that screams, “Romance!”
downtowngal says
Slim, what you’ve said reflects what I’ve been advised by many guys who’ve been there – if you’re looking for a committed relationship, don’t date a guy unless he’s been divorced. Not separated, divorced. And some go further to say for at least a year. Doesn’t matter the circumstances.
The same probably holds true for guys and divorced women as well. I know when I broke up w my ex it took me at least a year until I felt ready to commit myself emotionally.
Lucy says
Abigail,
Why should you have to ask a man to get a divorce even a first time, let alone a second? He either wants a divorce or he doesn’t, yes? It appears from your letter this couple is content to stay married and have relationships with other people. If you want no part of such an arrangement (and who could blame you?) your choice is clear. Tell this person you do not want to be a married man’s girlfriend and move on.
Stray thought: I wonder why the wife’s boyfriend broke up with HER?
Selena says
Joe, Re: #45
In states that mandate a year’s separation before a divorce is granted, aren’t the parties required to file a statement of intent to divorce at the start of the separation?
Since the man in this letter is printing forms off the internet a year and a half later for the first time, it wouldn’t seem he falls into such a scenario.
starthrower68 says
I’m afraid as someone who gets along with her ex and still has quite a bit of interaction with him because of three children I don’t have a great deal of sympathy for Abigail. That little boy is not to be penalized for who his mother is; if you don’t want to share your man with children from a previous relationship then do not become involved with a man who has them. Second, I can tell you that life will go much smoother with a man who gets along with his ex rather than with one who is always bickering with her. Third, feelings are not facts. They are to be taken in balance as in all things and are not to rule us. I agree with Evan that perhaps this is not a good match.
Angela says
She should move on. Six weeks is too early to claim someone. All divorces are not acrimonious. Just because he is friendly with his father -in law and had his soon to be ex wife over does not mean they are getting back together. My ex and I often had dinner together with my son. I left him and there was nothing going on. In addition, we had him over on his birthday so my son could do something special (cake and ice cream) and a gift.
Joe says
Dunno never been divorced (or married!).
someone who knows says
it totally may be other circumstances, like money for a divorce- or kids. He may be from a religious family who do not belive in divorce who he has to get the guts up to tell. Bottom line— divorces happen everyday and 6 weeks (longer now) is not a lot of time to demand him to pay a lawyer the retainer (1,000-35,000) depending on the case. He has to decide that on himself. Allow him to make the right decisions without your influence. If you are the person he may want to spend the rest of his life with- he will want to get it finalized after due time together and everything will take care of themselves. You are the one that chose a guy (even if a wonderful great guy) with very excess baggage. This is either going to be a push to him to get it done eventually, or he will show his true colors. If you love him enough to stand by him now- do so not threatening-like cause he’s going to get enough of that in a divorce and that may be what he is trying to avoid. If he loves you enough and you love him enough you have time for divorce in your future (his- not you all’s). Good luck! If it’s meant to be- it will be
kadija says
I understand Abigail’s point of view. Firstly, yes you can call someone your BF after dating for six weeks, the way I read this post is, she wanted advice on how to go about this relationship, and if it was worth for her to pursue this relationship.
In my opinion I feel she should walk away from this situation, it sound as if this guy is not over his ex wife, why would he want to console his ex when he has a new relationship? Yes hes got a child with his ex wife,and no woman should disputewith a guy about spending time with his child, from mypoint of view I know that most woman will not agree for their new bf to be taking their exs out for dinner….
I was in a relationship some years ago similar to this post, in the end I had to make an exit cause the guy was clearly stuck up on his exwife even though he divorced her after we started dating and later living together, it felt like his exwife was his main priority evne though she had moved on and married someone else, I told him I was not happy the wa he behaved and I was accused of being controlling and all sorts, like it was normal for him to visit her when im not around, she would call and ask him for extra cash that he would liet o me about, there were all sorts and in the end I had to make a choice, so i left.. I am divorced too with four kids from my ex husband, I have never given my ex bf reason to feel insecure about my ex husband, whereas I have felt insecure about his ex wife for so many reasons….
Cat says
The “boyfriend’s” ex will ALWAYS be in the picture because they share a child. Not clear is whether Abigail will be in the picture, too…
Abigail sounds incredibly insecure and immature to me. Six weeks is hardly enough time to have had a few dates, much less deliver ultimatums to someone you’ve just started dating! If he’d only dated his ex for six weeks and they didn’t have a child, I could see where she’s coming from. But what a terrible stepmom she’s going to be–that is, IF she doesn’t get dumped. (Would you even want a guy who’ll treat his ex & child badly just to make you feel secure?)
It’s natural to want to know someone’s marital status. In fact, I choose not to date guys going through a divorce because it IS complicated and messy (even without a child’s well being to consider.) But if the guy isn’t ready to get a divorce, you won’t force him to change his mind. Also, #54, you can call someone your BF anytime you want, but that doesn’t make it true… I’m glad you went on from a bad marriage and have a new relationship! As Evan told me recently, don’t get stuck in the past… Good advice!
Goldie says
What bothers me the most in this story is not that the guy is on good terms with his ex, or takes care or his son (good things, both). Is that he’s been separated for a year and a half and hasn’t even gotten around to “printing the forms off the net”. It would be one thing if he’d spent this whole time trying to get his divorce finalized, but from Abigail’s letter I see it had never entered his mind to even get started on this. For whatever reason, this man really does not want to get divorced at this point in time. Hence, he cannot be anybody’s “boyfriend”, and it’s pretty silly to complain that he is not over his “ex” – she is not even his ex at this point, she’s his wife, simple as that. I would really like to know what he did or said to lead Abigail to believe that they’re in a relationship. I disagree with Evan’s comment that “the end of a marriage doesn’t mean the end of a relationship” – I mean, I agree with this statement on principle, but I don’t believe it applies to Abigal and her (boyfriend?) whomever. This guy’s marriage is nowhere close to ending. Heck, now that his ex(?) is available, I woouldn’t be surprised if they got back together. Happens all the time. It would probably be a good thing, too.
Terri says
SIX WEEKS? Are you serious? As others have said, calling a man a BF after such a short period of time is what we did in high school. You hardly know each other and have no right to make demands on him at this early point in your relationship.
If he wants to invite his not-ex wife and child to dinner, he should do so when he is not with you. The little boy will always be in his life and deserves his undivided attention when they are together. If this man were to marry you, which I strongly doubt, you would probably be a terrible stepmother.
He apparently is not ready to divorce. Maybe he does want to go back with his ex. I doubt that he “loves” you. You are a pleasant interlude until he decides what he really wants to do but stop nagging him as you will drive him away very quickly.
Chris says
I’m sure that there are facts which where possibly never mentioned. Maybe this boyfriend lead her to believe he was available Maybe he feed her mind with kind and sweet words and never ready advice here what the situation was and how involved he was until feelings were deeply involved. in fact, He probably painted the opposite picture about his ability and involvement with his ex and her family. And him calling her girlfriend, it was all part of the mind game, he possibly was playing. How do I know this because the exact same story happen to be. Except as much as I’ve Grown to care about him I realize I have a chose to move forward . The problem is his as well as hers. He should be involved in a relationship if he never got divorced officially. I now have learned the same lesson.
nicol says
it doesnt matter for how long they are together, there is about his own actions. He didnt do it for 1.5 years perhaps in a hope will have his family back, but thats all to be assumed. No matter when u meet someone if he is married yet on the papers, will certanly doubt your decision to be or not with someone who cannot make up his mind… think u people taken too hard comments on this girl. Bet you would like ur exes to flaf around your houses any time u want, with kids or without. Symphaty is good but is always a teritorial thing that we like to apartain and control in the end, thats why is called commintment… the marriage. If he needs to decide something will be for himself first and for a luck of respect for his ”newlly girlfriend”. i dont know in which world are you people live but some of us can get married at distance, after 2, 3 months even since u met someone, so how come u can be judgemental that someone calls herself girlfriend???!!! I have a child myself, but there is no friendship like ” hey ex lets have a drink and socialize over our problems”, our own concern is our son. Thats all. I dont know anything about his like and so he about mine. There is all respect and ignorance regarding us ”today”. who cares what he is doing if he does care about our son. Thats all that matter to me. Justice… hmmm…. is that to clean your plate before u dribble another one… so thats call a new start. If you cant do it, stay in house till u ready to love proper someone not to mess up another mind! cheers guys! nicol
Cathy says
I didn’t agree with Marc’s response to this letter and I was shocked that my thinking was, seemingly, so ‘out’.
Why would a guy take a very new girl (doesn’t matter what we call her – girlfriend or not, a potential new romance) to have dinner with his ex-wife? That is incredibly inappropriate. I question his judgment. This seems to scream of emotional unavailability.
Furthermore, why would he choose to hold this dinner because his ex’s new relationship has failed? He should show appropriate sympathy, concern and understanding, also bearing in mind that she is the mother of his child, but console? That isn’t his role, especially after so little time being separated from her, himself. Let’s not forget, he also isn’t divorced or settled into a new, long-term relationship himself.
Yes, 6 weeks is too soon to be called a girlfriend, but this could just be semantics. Yes, bullying or demanding someone to get a divorce after so little time also shows a degree of insecurity and immaturity. Yes, she will most likely be dumped for this and I feel it will do her a big favour.
They are both in the wrong. Her reaction is wrong and his involvement is inappropriate.
MissBehavin says
BRAVO for your response to this immature self-centered little twit! Someone needs to whack this girl with the reality stick! The disgustingly selfish and demanding way she is behaving should serve as a HUGE red flag to her “boyfriend”. “Boyfriend? LOL, please! He is a MARRIED man (sorry to burst her bubble, but he is married and it ain’t to you, HUN!). It was particularly nauseating to learn that this girl has known him for ONLY SIX WEEKS! Seriously, that is nothing.
To Abigail – Get a clue and know your place when it comes to this situation. Where is your place you might ask? It’s non-existent! You have no place or business inserting yourself into a family’s life simply because you have been sleeping with this married man for 6 weeks. WTF is wrong with you? Oh, I know – you are an immature, manipulative woman with a very distorted sense of entitlement and reality. And one more piece of advice – Open your eyes. He does not love you. you are not his “significant other” — not after 6 weeks.
indigo says
The guy shouldn’t be dating, um, using this woman. It probably hit her fast and hard he was spending time time consoling his ex while acting like an available man on the market. I’ve seen this type in action. Separated men suffer from a form of narcissism and will do whatever it takes to keep the attention /supply, which means who knows what the hell he told her to get her so concerned so quickly. Damn straight I would want to see some action on his part to end it. Judging get her is a bit harsh. He’s probably a selfish twit so hopefully she dumped him. Since when do women have to be cool instead of have a few expectations that impact what happens next week or next year? Since forever. It’s time keep men like this or anyone who claims their business is none of yours out of your good graces. Find someone trustworthy. This guy is a lower.
Jmom says
Yes, 6 weeks is short, but consider the MESSAGES this man is sending her! AND if his “ex” is also dating (and breaking up) with someone…guess who she calls to comfort her? There is something psychological about a couple finding a ‘third’ common party whether it be a common thing (both dating) or a child (obvious) to get together about. I dated a man for 5 years and I believe now that he and ex were merely separated, never divorced. In his mind, that gave him certain rights, I think…one, to be CLOSE and keep the friendship fires burning, even tho they each had bed partners. They got together for concerts, lectures, meals and other social events (DATING, in other words!) SO, how can one be exclusive with a man like that? CAN’T. I was the one who had to break up b/c his actions didn’t meet his “words” that he wanted to date someone exclusively. The answer by Evan is off the mark. IT WON’T change, that’s for sure, but SHE should be the one out the door and quit wasting her time.
Jen says
Some people have relationships. Others take hostages. She is the latter.
Great response, Evan.
Schna says
1. The guy had not finalized divorce after 1.5 years (RED FLAG for the girl). This is the fact.
2. The girl asked the guy to divorce after short period time of dating (WRONG WAY), but we didnot know why she did that. Too many assumptions and attacks on her while we dont know what was happening.
I guess the girl should be more tactful and let the guy know that she is not comfortable with the situation and let the guy decide. Give him 3 months, but i believe nothing would change 🙂
My advice. Be firm, Lady.
Lee says
Kenley thank you the voice of reason . Sounds like this article was really written by an intrusive clingy ex wife . the fuck?