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Since Michelle knew a lot about nutrition, I decided to communicate with her in metaphors she’d easily understand. I told her that the super-attractive guys with whom she felt the most chemistry were like fried foods – they may taste really good, but, in the long run, they’re really bad for you.
Having read my advice before, Michelle set up a coaching call to find out how she could get this guy back.
Since Michelle knew a lot about nutrition, I decided to communicate with her in metaphors she’d easily understand. I told her that the super-attractive guys with whom she felt the most chemistry were like fried foods – they may taste really good, but, in the long run, they’re really bad for you.
Her immediate reaction was to protest, “But nice guys are so boring!”
“So are vegetables,” I said. “But if you want to live a long, healthy life, you can’t do better than eating healthy. If you think that you’re going to be the one person who doesn’t get heart disease on a steady diet of bad food, you’ve got another thing coming.”
She laughed. “But I LIKE bad food.”
“EVERYBODY likes bad food,” I reminded her. “But if you want to know the main reason that you’re single, it’s because you keep on eating steak every night and are continually shocked that you don’t lose weight. Steak is always gonna be bad for you. Hot, emotionally unavailable guys will, too.”
That conversation was four days ago.
Here’s what Michelle wrote to me this morning:
Hello Evan;
I cannot begin to tell you what a difference our conversation has made in my life. I am so extremely grateful to you. I walked into two of my clients’ houses yesterday and they said, “What’s his name?” because they said I was glowing and luminous. They’ve only seen me look like that before when I was infatuated with a new man. But I now feel this way because a huge weight has been lifted and I have a new path and outlook for my future. Do you have any idea how HUGE that is? I hope I just gave you the compliment of the year because that is BIG stuff; to make that kind of a difference with one phone conversation. And I’m a tough sell… so take the compliment 🙂
“I just can’t even tell you. I’m a new person. You got through like know one else has ever been able to.”
I’ve already made changes and “cleaned house”. There are a couple of guys that still text me that before talking to you, I would occasionally go out with, simply because they’re hot and funny, but they have big problems I overlooked before. I’m no longer going to date them.
I have several men that I didn’t give a chance to, simply because I didn’t think they were sexy enough. I’m reconnecting with them. Last night I started talking to a guy who seems GREAT and is handsome, funny and seems really sincere. Prior to talking to you, I wouldn’t have gone out with him simply because he is 5”² 8”³. I now think that’s silly and I’m definitely going to go on a date with him.
I just can’t even tell you. I’m a new person. You got through like no one else has ever been able to. I’m sure I’ll need another session soon, just to make sure I get on the right track with the next guy I date… but you showed me that my only problem has been chasing “lust”, not life partners.
xoxo
Michelle
This email literally brought tears to my eyes. Such a radical change – in just one phone call!
I feel very fortunate to have the opportunity to produce breakthrough results for special women and men who want more power and control over their love lives.
So if you’re confused about the current state of your relationship… if you wonder whether you’re investing time in the right partner or wasting time with the wrong one…if you are concerned that time is passing and you’re no closer to happiness than you were a year ago, don’t hesitate.
Alas, coaching is not free. If you want free advice, you can go read my blog.
But if you’re smart and serious about love – and have had the same issues with dating and relationships over and over and over again, coaching is the best investment you could ever make.
Just ask my newly empowered friend, Michelle.
Talk to you soon.
Your friend,
Evan
My comment got lost in the switch over to the new blog ( nice! ) so I am posting it again.
In these conversations people always confuse being an insecure guy with being a nice guy. Women do like the latter quality, they just find the former quality to be a turn-off.
This essay is a bit of a rant, but it can help many people:
http://tinyurl.com/insecurenotnice
BTW, anyone who knows anything about cooking knows that vegetables make some of the tastiest dishes around:
Almost on a weekly basis some new study is published about finding some near magical health giving property of produce.
FYI, poultry and even some types of fish have just as much, if not more cholesterol than red meet when those foods are measured by calorie.
End of sermon ( sorry, I just had to say it )
Post #1. Sorry about the typo. Not a deprived coffee drinker or blonde. Just got a weird minor neurological thing somewhere.
Yup – Evan you’ve been telling me the same thing for years. I finally got it. Funny how common sense is not always so common. Your advise is amazing, sometimes sobering, but always dead on!
Nother thing – Hot guys are not always really so hot. And diamond in the rough guys are often much hotter in reality. Sort of the same as fast food that you cook quickly – compared to something that you simmer over time. 🙂
The really hot, conventionally handsome guys don’t do too much for me. For example, I think Keanu Reeves is gorgeous, but if I had a roll in the hay with him, I’d want him to keep his mouth shut. I prefer a man with whom I can form a mental and intellectual connection, which in term makes him more attractive to me. For me, a good conversationalist is hot.
Haha, I love the fact that she admitted she wouldn’t date a 5’8″ dude because he was too short. Typical chick logic. Glad she say the light.
Nigga you wouldn’t date a girl if her thighs were too big .. typical male “logic”.. getting offended when a girl has the same visual sense all men do
I actually can’t speak around super super hot men- if I met Matthew McConaughey (sp?) for example, I’d probably swallow my tongue.
It’s so funny that you mention Matthew because I just saw his new movie yesterday, and throughout the entire movie I was thinking I just don’t know why so many women think he’s so hot!
Kenley
A Time to Kill. Though I will say he’s grown less attractive to me over the last several years. But still a very nice specimen of a man. 🙂
Evan
Will the other comments from this thread ever make it to the new domain?
EMK is right, it has been my experience, very attractive women can be arrogant.
A-L, Kenley-
You’re right guys- his hair’s just not attractive anymore, at least in this movie. The Matthew I have in my mind is Time to Kill. 😉
But he looked pretty damn fine in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days.
I can definitely sympathize with the high chemistry weakness, as I have a bit of it myself. So in trying to strike a balance between chemistry and compatibility, what should the tipping points be? If you’re below an 8 in either then it’s a no-go? Or so long as both add up to 16 (in any combination) then it’s a go? Or?
Because I don’t think anyone here is proposing that someone marry an eh, I guess s/he is halfway doable (which I would categorize as a 4-5). So if we’re saying we want more than this, but are not requiring the slam you against the wall and reach the heights of ecstasy (a 10), then where’s the appropriate middle ground?
It’s kind of galling how Michelle has been operating. Evan, you ought to do a blog entry in a few months on how well that has worked out. After all, some amount of physical attraction is needed.
Hot people do tend to be dangerous, research confirms, because they’ve constructed some of their own attractiveness and are in high demand. If you can get a highly attractive person and can offer enough in return for it to last, that’s fine, but Michelle seems to be realizing that that won’t work for her. Food for thought: maybe there’s a point (age) at which the particularly attractive people left who aren’t committed to long-term relationships are mostly those who are style over substance and are unlikely to improve much underneath.
lol- Evan, I knew you were going to say that in response to my ladykiller comment.
I think physical attraction is extremely important. Not just eh, I guess s/he is halfway doable, but actual lust.
I reached a point with my ex-husband after only five years of being together where I no longer wanted to have sex with him. No matter what he did, I just didn’t feel anything.
I realize that no matter how beautiful, one and the same person won’t turn you on indefinitely, but five years is really nothing if we are talking about building a life and a family together. I do believe you would fare better if you merge with someone who is more your type to begin with.
Looks just can’t be the only criterion – but that goes without saying.
And oh, this strong attraction, obviously, has to be mutual.
I keep wondering about this because lately I see SO much advice for women to overlook physical attraction to find an emotionally available man. I DO agree it is important to weed out unavailable men. But on the other hand, I think female sexuality is being marginalized here. How often do you hear men advised to put aside their physical preferences? Not often, if ever. I realize this is a blog for women, but I don’t think it’s good advice in the long run to downplay the importance of physical attraction. I don’t mean there needs to be immediate, off the charts chemistry, but the person should be physically attractive to you.
Because what is a huge complaint from husbands? Not enough sex after the honeymoon phase. Could it be that their wives were just not that attracted to them to begin with? When the excitement of a novel partner and a new marriage wore off, the woman is left with someone she likes but who doesn’t turn her on. She married the first man who consistently pursued her and would commit, and he was stable and a practical choice, but in forgoing passion they now have a major marital issue….
Uh, every time the subject comes up, between a single guy and his buddy. Here and available trumps short, tall, big boobs, legs, butt, or hair color.
“What’s wrong with this one?” If, realistically, very little, the hunt for Scarlett Johansson ceases or at least slows quite a bit.
JuJu and Echos – Yes I agree. Sexual attraction is very important in a relationship and I do see a lot of advice to women (as well as comments in this blog from angry men) to minimize or dismiss that component. Of course sexual attraction can’t be the ONLY thing, but it can’t be absent either. (Evan, I’m not saying that you advocate for no attraction)
I have read several articles written by pschycologists about attraction say people know in an instant weather or not they are attracted.
However compatibility, intentions, and all the other essential qualities take longer to discern, but why take the time searching for other essential qualities, after you discovered that the essential attraction quality just isn’t there ? Some call it “giving a guy a chance” but I call it leading a man on.
Attraction isn’t just based on looks for me anyway. There have been men that aesthetically speaking I found attractive on an intellectual level, but I felt no pull towards them. Sometimes I could discern that it was something about their demeanor, body language or voice tone that was off putting, but other times, I just didn’t KNOW why I didn’t feel the pull. There were guys I WISH I could feel the pull, the spark, or whatever you want to call it, but I just didn’t feel it. I chalk it up to pheremones. I have also felt that pull toward men, who on an objective level, weren’t particularly attractive, but something about the way they moved, or talked, their facial demeanor, just pulled me in.
Arguing about weather or not sexual attraction or compatibility is more important to a relationship is like arguing about weather oxygen or water is more important to sustaining human life. Both qualities are ESSENTIAL.
Getting back to the angry male commenters . . . Some of them are so hypocritical. Right here on this blog, I’ve seen things such as one male commenter saying he assessed himself to be a 7, then in the next sentence complain that online, the “9”s and the “10”s didn’t write back to him online. Or the ever complaining Obsidian bitterly declaring that he wanted a woman who was prettier than he was handsome. Or in the article that Evan ran that said short men get laid as much as tall men, one male commenter asked the question “But are they getting laid by 9s and 10s” ?. And men who complain about women’s height preferences, then lay out very specific immutable body types that THEY want such as long legs, rounded butt, and natural DD cup. (I have no real height preference and all of my long term relationship, including my husband are well under 6 feet)
I get that men have their “types” when it comes to physical attraction, and I would never advise men to “give a girl a chance” if they didn’t find her attractive. I just don’t like the hypocrisy exhibited by some men, that they are entitled to the hottest women (the top 20%) even if they aren’t so hot themselves. And that women should have no such preference. Or any preference at all for that matter. We’re shallow bitches if actually want to feel attraction to the men we sleep with, and whores if we want to be in a relationship with the men we sleep with. (Yes, the wanting sex only in a relationship has been compared to prostitution many times on this blog) The fact that we have ANY choice in the matter enrages some men, and they claim that women have ALL the power, when in actuality, sex and relationships happen by MUTUAL consent. (except in cases of rape)
Sparkling Emerald,
The fact that we have ANY choice in the matter enrages some men, and they claim that women have ALL the power, when in actuality, sex and relationships happen by MUTUAL consent.
Yep. No one has all the power, and looking at dating as some kind of power struggle is going to make you miserable.
E the O said “Yep. No one has all the power, and looking at dating as some kind of power struggle is going to make you miserable.”
I’ve always said that I want a relationship, not a power trip. Unfortunately, so much dating advice aimed at men and women is all about jockeying for the “upper hand”.
The silly book “The Rules” for women, and all the PUA stuff, for men.
I like an even handed relationship. I certainly don’t want to be under some guy’s thumb, nor do I want a guy wrapped around my baby finger.
Echoes,
She married the first man who consistently pursued her and would commit, and he was stable and a practical choice, but in forgoing passion they now have a major marital issue….
I think it can be difficult to find the whole thing in one person. (I first typed “package” instead of “person” — HA!) Sometimes the guy who turns you on won’t commit. (This is a cliche, but it’s a cliche for a reason.) Sometimes the guy who you connect with mentally leaves you a bit cold. (He may be overly logical.) The guy you connect with emotionally and you genuinely like may not have all that much to talk about and you may only have a middling interest in him physically. I don’t have solution.
Echoes,
I think you bring up a valid point, and I’d like to respond to it. First of all, we’re here on a predominately female-oriented blog, one major significance of which is, that for women, the majority idea of the Holy Grail is ” committed relationship/marriage” . To that may be added, (and in the minds of a lot of women, is) “at any cost whatever, and the consequences to me (or the man in question) be damned”. I don’t think the latter does anyone any good (I suspect Evan would at least partially agree here). I think what a lot of women (and some of us men, as well) hear in Evan’s advice on this subject, is “give up on real chemistry and passion, in order to get compatibility”. Evan has said repeatedly himself, that is NOT what he means, but to some people of both genders, that’s how it comes across.
I can’t speak for all men, but I can for myself, so here’s my take, FWIW. First of all, there seems to be some popular idea here that a man (assuming he has a normal level of sexual desire) can and will have sex with any woman, so long as she is willing, and vaguely female. I don’t know exactly who that’s supposed to be true of, but personally, I have never in my entire life, slept with a woman I did not find at least moderately physically attractive (yes, even when I was drunk), nor would I ever care to. As for any woman I found physically unattractive, I wouldn’t want to even kiss her or touch her, much less have sex with her. That applies no matter what I think of her personality, intelligence, charm,or anything else. Matter of fact, that’s exactly how I select most of my long-term women friends. I love them dearly; the closest are like extended family…and I wouldn’t ever think of sleeping with any of them. Given that, I wouldn’t expect a woman to do anything different; why on earth would I expect a woman to to even think about sleeping with me, (much less get into a committed relationship with me) if she did not actively, and pretty intensely, desire me? For me, anyway, the answer is, I don’t; honestly, I would prefer she didn’t! Nothing is worth the misery that can (and often does) inflict on both parties.
I may be an outlier, but I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why anyone would ever want a sexual relationship of any kind (short or long-term) without some pretty high level mutual chemistry. My take is, that if you want real passion and excitement in life, you go for it, all the way; you never ever compromise or settle, you put up with the resultant storms, and take the bitter along with the sweet, and the pleasure along with the pain, and live and die with the result. That point of view seems to be anathema here. Whether it should be, is something I suppose each of us has to decide for ourselves. Effective? Depends on what you want, or can tolerate, I guess. All I can say is that I’ve lived in two “settle for what you can get” marriages, which I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy. The first one actually tried to kill me, and the second was basically a slow death from a thousand tiny cuts, so I fail to see the difference. I’d rather have two weeks of real passion, than a lifetime of what, to me, is nothing but the most insipid sort of “companionship”, if one could even call it that. I get better companionship from my friends anyway, without the emotional angst. I’m a little sick of hearing the threat, “But, Buck, you’ll die alone!”. Horse dung! We ALL die alone! No one, no matter how much they love you, can take the last step of that journey with you. It’s not about that anyway; nor about how long you live; it’s about how much enjoyment you can cram into the ride while you have the chance! Now someone pass me that steak, and hold the damn spinach, tofu and bean sprouts; just like with relationships, I’d rather die tomorrow than live to 120 eating that disgusting bitter swill!
I understand what you are saying. The problem is there is A SHORTAGE of ATTRACTIVE GUYS unlike men where there is no shortage of ATTRACTIVE women. As a result of the shortage, attractive men are playas until their teeth in a jar and refuse to settle down or marry. Most don’t know she relationships or monogomy seriously
So we are stuck with a large pool of unattractive men.
This is why cheating, divorce, and sexless marriages is so high. Women are forced to settle for unattractive men.
Diana wrote: She is choosing these men based on her own flaws and that will require more work than choosing another guy she wouldn’t have been all that interested in simply because he’s 5? 8?.
Michelle here. I don’t agree with your conclusion that my tendencies to choose men based on lust versus choosing men with my head makes me innately flawed nor do I feel that it means I’ve got a long tough road ahead of me. In fact, I feel this process is about to get A LOT easier because my eyes are wide open now.
I feel all that has happened is that online dating has spoiled me a bit and brought out a superficial side in me like a kid in a candy store that I am going to try to put a lid on, because I wasn’t always this way (my daughter’s father is 5-7?)
And now I’m going to start looking at character ABOVE animal instinct. It doesen’t mean that I think it will happen overnight either; or that I won’t be secretly attracted to tall tatooed boys who know how to pull the back of your hair just right and pin you against the wall and leave you so breathless you can’t even remember your name LOL 🙂 (okay, maybe it will take awhile ha, ha.)
Extraordinarily attractive people of both genders often get through a goodly portion of their lives on their looks. This can lead to them not really developing much as people. Scratch the surface and you find more surface.
Exceptions definitely exist, but I’ve seen it enough times to feel pretty comfortable making the generalization. Disagree?
casualencounters.com/blog’s last blog post Paid adult dating site review – ALT.com
I disagree that Hot dates are unhealthy. I agree that using hotness as the primary selection criteria is a mistake. For me, the MOST IMPORTANT CRITERIA are based on the qualities that relate to a person’s long-term relationship prospects.
That said, Why not pick someone who is really hot for the long haul? There are many passionate partners who are also honest, caring, and committed. Finding one who has both heat and long-term love skills is much more rare, but you only need one at a time-a handful in a lifetime. Why not hold out for what you most want?
Roger
Roger said: (#1)
Why not pick someone who is really hot for the long haul? There are many passionate partners who are also honest, caring, and committed.
For every one person like that, there are a thousand people who are trying to date him/her. And each one of those people who is honest, caring, committed and really hot well they also want someone who is honest, caring, committed and really hot. And unlike me, they have a very good chance of getting someone who is all that (once they weed through the other 999 suitors).
Most of us can manage to get someone who is about our equal. They may be a little better in some areas and a little worse in others, but we can decide if those differences are a reasonable trade-off.
That’s why the most reasonable advice for attracting better people is to become better yourself (become fit, gain self-confidence, pursue interesting hobbies, learn new skills, treat people nicer, etc.)
On a separate matter, Evan has previously referred to internet dating as a flawed medium. I think this topic touches on one of those areas. I can learn more (important) information about someone within the first few minutes of observing her in person than I can by reading the average profile.
In the absence of these observations, I put too much emphasis on the pieces of information that I do have particularly the photos. That’s one reason I prefer to date offline. My own selection criteria is better.
Somebody is going to bring the point up, so it might as well be me. Women do like nice guys. They don’t link insecure guys.
Why Nice Guys are often such LOSERS
http://tinyurl.com/niceguys
This is a good point. But my personal experience is that I can happily date someone who is a bit insecure and clingy, as long as I’m actually attracted to them. It’s just that if there’s no strong chemistry at the start, people who come on too strong will be a major turn off and it doesn’t give any room for the chemistry to grow – because you feel like it’s all or nothing.
I have often said that when I have “given a guy a chance”, it always ends up badly. Who knows, maybe if the “3 date rule” wasn’t in full force, I could grown into liking a guy, but the minute someone on the fence starts pawing and groping at me, my feeling go from maybe to “ugh!” If a guy that I don’t need to convince myself to like , starts pawing pre-maturely, I might sidestep those advances, but I will not be repulsed. I will be RESISTING those advances, not recoiling from them.
Men can’t have it both ways. Women can’t give a guy some time, to see if attraction will grow, AND put out on a first, second or third date.
Karl R wrote, On a separate matter, Evan has previously referred to internet dating as a flawed medium. I think this topic touches on one of those areas. I can learn more (important) information about someone within the first few minutes of observing her in person than I can by reading the average profile.
I both agree and disagree with this statement. I agree that the average profile gives little information about someone. I’d say that’s about the same amount of information that you have when a random person asks you out in real life, which is rather little. It’s why I don’t particularly care for random pickups or for average profiles.
But the profiles that I tend to respond to or initiate with? Those are the ones that you get a decent sense of who the person is which gives you something to go on while communicating and helps to build a rapport between the two of you before ever going out, which makes your dates more successful. I guess this is just me saying that online dating success can be improved dramatically by having a good profile. And Evan’s never said that before 😉
You’re pretty hot, Evan. So this means you’re a ladykiller? 😉
Seriously though- if someone had written a blog post stating Stay away from ugly people- they make bad dates, would that not be VERY offensive? But somehow, it’s okay to make a mass judgment about an entire population of people because hey- everyone hates beautiful people, right?
I like bald guys who work out. A little belly is OK. I like them to be smart, whether or not they have an advanced degree. And articulate. And very physically affectionate, sensual, and sexual. As long as his looks are not repugnant to me, it’s gold. To me, “hotness” is a combination of the different forms of chemistry that create passion: mental, physical, emotional, spiritual.
Sorry for the consecutive post- I promise this is the last time I’ll do it:
Unattractive guys aren’t necessarily wonderful boyfriends- some of of them are very insecure about their looks and take their insecurities (read: emotional abuse) out on their girlfriends. So it boils down to this: Eff the generalizations and look beyond the face, whether it’s a pretty or ugly one.
PS- Negative energies like anger, hatred, jealousy, and arrogance make their mark on people’s faces. Sometimes, a pretty (quotes because I strongly believe that term is relative) face can mean you’re dealing with a person at peace with himself, and who takes care of himself. THAT’s the guy you want.
Here is some wisdom!
I hate the cliche of beautiful people being shallow or ugly on the inside. That is judging the book by its cover too. And yes, being homely doesnt automatically endow you with virtuous qualities.
I know that despite being considerd pretty, my vibe has turned people off. People are surprised to hear that men rarely are interested in me romantically. I don’t get approached anywhere or shown interest by acquaintances, etc.
Working on being more emotionally positive has seemed to help. I have struggled with low self worth and shyness masked by indifference to people with my cool demeanor. My vibe was melancholy and discontent, perhaps elitist too. But perspective has shifted a lot.
How soon this inner work shows up in my face…I don’t know :D.
The easiest way to achieve happiness is to lower your expectations.
casualencounters.com/blog’s last blog post Paid adult dating site review – ALT.com
If your take away from this post was avoid hot people instead of don’t base your entire relationship on looks and chemistry, then I haven’t done a good job of communicating. Maybe next time.
And yes, Sayanta, I kind of was a ladykiller when I was dating prolifically. And that’s why I’m a helluva dating coach – I explain to women the psychology of guys like me
I’ve found both steak and spinach to sometimes be rancid after the package has been opened.
I also read into this post to stay away from hot people, they are trouble with a capital T, and I was also going to bring up that based on your photo on this site, you are quite the hottie, unless of course like so many others, the photo is not you, or a very old one. Not all good looking people are in a constant hunt for ego strokes.
Your comment cleared it up. So many people, it seems, have not set up any standards, requirements, and boundaries, and by that I don’t mean physical characteristics, but values and character characteristics, and they hop head first into disaster by basing their requirements on superficial things.
searching within s last blog post Seeking Validation and Love Through Men’s Approval
I agree with Karl: And unlike me, they have a very good chance of getting someone who is all that (once they weed through the other 999 suitors).
I think my definition of hot is different from the way it is being used in Evan’s article and the discussion. I look for a hot lover who carries the passion far beyond the usual first few months. This has little to do with looks and not much to do with immediate chemistry. Since it is nearly impossible to pick out from a profile, the only solution is to look for women with great relationship skills, enthusiasm, and creativity. That way, by the time we’ve invested enough in the relationship that it is appropriate to have sex, how ever it turns out is great.
I did learn to avoid the overtly hot early on in my dating. Example: cheerleaders. They were strongly ego-invested in the look and the role and had tons of guys trying to date them the classic trophy date. Plus they were so busy managing the hair, skin, clothes and physique that they genuinely did not have the time to build a serious relationship.
Roger
There are hot and not so hot emotionally available and unavailable men. Any individual can be the equivalent of fried foods or veggies, regardless of appearance. And the term hot is relative, too. She is choosing these men based on her own flaws and that will require more work than choosing another guy she wouldn’t have been all that interested in simply because he’s 5? 8?.
Isn’t four days a little early for Michelle to be evaluating her new dating strategy? As someone who is 5?8 I’m happy she’s giving my height class a chance, but she’s being too quick to generalize. Has she even met the guy in person?
To Roger and Sayanta
Michelle here. Although the title of this blog reads hotness and a lot of people are reading the message as being avoid good looking people you’re attracted too that was never what he was saying to me. The point he was hitting home for ME was that I was trying to create relationships off of that euphoric toe-curling, head in the clouds chemistry HIGH that some men can bring out in me and he was making me recognize my ADDICTION to those guys; to the extent that I OVERLOOK red flags and big deal breakers that everyone is able to see but me, because I’m in la-la land with my high. It has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with that chemical reaction that often blinds me to things I shouldn’t overlook.
The way Evan so eloquently put it to me was You’re taking someone where the chemistry is a 10 and the compatability is a 4 and trying to turn it into a working relationship. He challenged me to ask myself if this was the first time I had done this, and the answer was a resounding NO I had based the decision almost in its entirety to keep seeing someone because of the feeling they gave me, and not on anything that would make me happy or content in the long run.
As you said Roger, you look for attraction AND for someone who has long term qualities I had developed a blind spot at discerning what long term qualities I need to be looking for, because I just wanted the roller coaster ride. Now I have a new approach.
Mic – you’re right. I have been going about it the wrong way; which is why I needed someone to put me on a course of action that is better suited for my long term happiness. Evan started me off with a few basic guidelines that I haven’t been doing; such as going on a date once a week and using a more cerebral and less organic thought process, so that’s what I’m doing (And I’ve got a date this Sunday 😉
Sam – I don’t think it’s too soon because I was ready to receive the information! I recognized everything I had been doing wrong, listened attentively to the advice that he gave me with all my defenses down and its like a switch went off and a new door has opened. Sometimes I think it CAN happen like that for people. And I never said I thought it would work out with the 5-8? guy and we’d live happily ever after but I recognize my own criteria of superficiality I’ve been using and I’m lucky enough to have options, so no I don’t think its to soon to feel that I have been changed from coaching. I know what I need to do now. but I will let you know 😉
Roger, while at the university, I remember seeing a cheerleader with plain, average looks and dateless, until she met me.
Selena, steak and spinach? How funny!..
mic said:
“maybe there’s a point (age) at which the particularly attractive people left who aren’t committed to long-term relationships are mostly those who are style over substance and are unlikely to improve much underneath.”
Like most generalizations, that one just doesn’t work.
People (regardless of attractiveness or internal qualities) are available or unavailable at all ages for many reasons. An attractive woman could get divorced and be available again. An attractive woman could let her career consume her life for a decade (or more) before deciding that she really wants to find someone to share her life with.
Maybe she even ended up in a string of relationships with guys who were style over substance before realizing that wasn’t working for her.
It’s impossible to make intelligent assumptions why someone is still available without getting to know them first.
One person’s 10 is another person’s 5 or 3…so it’s silly to get too wrapped up in that. Just as silly as preconceived notions that that 10 is shallow or empty. People are people, period, I’ve found people will respond according to how they are treated, and if you approach someone with preconceived notions about their character based on your perception of their looks, well, who’s the shallow one then? Touche’
I suppose I have an easier time of it, because very hot guys do absolutely nothing for me. And if a guy “knows” he’s hot, that makes him pretty unattractive to me. It just gives me the jibblies 🙂 I just find self-absorption and so-called “perfect” looks such a turn-off.
I just am genuinely much MUCH more attracted to guys on the normal side of attractive, so I have to agree with HoneyDew in # 35 that attractiveness is a very subjective thing anyway.
Funny, how no one ever tells men that the hot girls they’re chasing are bad for them. That they have to lower their aesthetic standards if they want a girl who isnt a “psycho bitch”. Us women have to make compromises so the average guy can get the supermodel, while still behaving like the emotional manipulator that all men naturally are. The difference between ugly girls and ugly guys is that ugly girls are nice, whereas ugly guys still have the ego of the handsome guy. Which typically surfaces some months later after they have successfully made the woman their personal doormat. At least with h
Maddy,
I can’t agree with your opinion as you are making a very significant (over)generalization about MANY people.
Your comment came off as very bitter. Maybe you have been hurt, haven’t gotten over it and could benefit from talking to someone.
Sometimes it is hard to be brief on the internet without coming off as rude.
No disrespect intended to you and my apologies if you feel that way.
Seriously, talk these ideas and feelings over with someone if you can.
Steve
Funny, how no one ever tells men that the hot girls they’re chasing are bad for them.
People do, I’ve heard. Evan does too, but you might not notice him since his service and his site mostly caters to women seeking dating advice.
The difference between ugly girls and ugly guys is the ugly girls are nice people, while ugly guys have worse personalities than handsome men. All men are the same, namely emotional abusers who are looking for a doormat that caters to all their needs. Why not choose the hot guy so you at least are getting sexed by an attractive man as opposed to an average guy with an inferiority complex and an ego that doesn’t match his looks.
I really agree with that. I’d rather sleep with a good-looking man, rather than a man who didn’t turn me on. It can’t all be that bad then 😉 That’s the positive about a hot man wanting us. I ha ha. It would definitely be my main suggestion. Oh look, an offer I can’t refuse.
Sarah Lund,
..”I’d rather sleep with a good-looking man,”….yes, women do keep the good-looking men busy…..
Maddy,
“The difference between ugly girls and ugly guys is the ugly girls are nice people, while the ugly guys have worse personalities than the handsome men. All men are the same…”
I guess you must be a very attractive woman then, because the personality you’re showing in that post sounds anything but nice. When you start labeling all men as “emotional manipulators” (something most of us, quite frankly, aren’t very good at), and “emotional abusers who are looking for a doormat that caters to all their needs”, that’s pretty bitter, angry, hateful, and unfair. What I’m hearing from this comment is a lot of pain, at having been disappointed/mistreated by one or more men. That’s understandable, but lashing out at an entire gender in rage and frustration might not be the most productive thing you can do.
I don’t think that is necessarily true. I think that no matter what one looks like, each personality is unique. And, rightly or wrongly, maybe “ugly” men are reacting out of a place of hurt and rejection. I think we have all done that at times. We can agree the world is not always a kind place, but particularly to those whom society deems as least attractive or worthy somehow. While we are not required to fall in love with those we are not attracted to, we can at least show them compassion and understanding toward them. It might just plant a seed and help them grow and it surely doesn’t hurt us to be kind. 😊
Hey starthrower68,
I haven’t been participating in the blog for a few years. I got a subscription notice for this thread when Maddy posted so I came here. Nice to see your name. I fondly remember many of your comments. I like this one too, it makes sense.
Happy Tuesday
Steve
Thank you Steve! I just hope to plant a few seeds that bear some good fruit. 😃
The title is a bit misleading.
First of all red meat doesn’t kill on the long run. neither it kills in other ways. Stupidity doesn’t kill either but that doesn’t mean that it’s okay to be dumb.
Besides there’s nothing wrong with hot guys, hot girls. They don’t kill either. They are like anybody else but certain people cannot handle them. But that doesn’t make hot guys, girls bad or anything else.
@Dion – I used to be confused by the blog post titles, too. But then I learned that Evan’s assistant writes them. If you want to get the “meat” of Evan’s teachings, stick to the information contained within his blog posts.
This is AWEFUL advice! Comparing men to food based on his looks? Talk about objectification! Not all good looking men are emotionally unavailable and not all trolls are emotionally available. A woman should be attracted to the man she’s dating. Not try to force attraction just because he’s a nice guy. Geesh!!
I keep getting the same male friend asking me over and over, why he can’t find a woman who will commit to him. Not that surprising, once I start telling you it’s probably because he’s a womaniser. Women can see right through them. We’re not daft. He thinks he’s God’s gift to women. Yet he expects to win over some diamond of a woman. Very worrying. Not sure he knows what common sense is, but he certainly knows how to lose a woman. For all he knows, he could have let a real quality woman go. People can’t expect someone to just land on their lap, without trying hard to keep them around. You only get out, what you put in.
This was horrible advice because no one NEEDS to “not stay single”. Good god. If you’re not terribly attracted to someone, WHY are you dating them? Dating leads to sex, sex should’t be happening unless their is intense desire for that person. If you’re not attracted to someone in all the right ways, WHY would you be having sex with them? Women, it’s OK to be single. It’s not as fun, but neither is “eating nothing but vegetables”.
Has anyone surveyed these men women are being told they should settle for, to find out if they’re okay being the guy she settled for and spending their life with a woman who isn’t that attracted to them?