More And More Men Are Settling For Ms. Good Enough

More And More Men Are Settling For Ms. Good Enough

This week, my friend Arielle Ford, author of The Soulmate Secret, sent me a link to a Daily Beast article. The author of the article interviewed anthropologist Helen Fisher, PhD, of Rutgers. (Fisher has written five books and conducted extensive research on the evolution and future of human sex, love, marriage, gender differences in the brain and how your personality type shapes who you are and who you love. Her latest is Why Him? Why Her?: How to Find and Keep Lasting Love.) Fisher’s latest study is of singles in America.

Fisher explains it this way. “We have a stereotype in this culture that it’s men who are the ones who don’t want to commit, who don’t want to settle down, who are the scarce resources. But in fact, it’s the opposite.”

There’s an old adage: a woman who can’t find a man is a spinster; a man who doesn’t want a wife is the envy of all his friends. Fisher says “We have a stereotype in this culture that it’s men who are the ones who don’t want to commit, who don’t want to settle down, who are the scarce resources. But in fact, it’s the opposite.”

There’s an old adage: a woman who can’t find a man is a spinster; a man who doesn’t want a wife is the envy of all his friends.

Rather than living up to the stereotype of commitment-phobic bachelors, modern men reported that they fell in love just as often as women, and were just as likely to believe that marriage is “forever.”

The study found that 31 percent of adult men said they’d commit to a person they were not in love with —- as long as as she had all the other attributes they were looking for in a mate –- and 21 percent said they’d commit under those same circumstances to somebody they weren’t sexually attracted to. The equivalent numbers for women were far lower.

“There’s this transformation going on,” says Tom Matlack, co-founder of The Good Men Project, which aims to discuss and debunk modern male stereotypes. “It’s kind of like feminism on its head: for years, women were trying to earn the right to get out of the house, and here are all these men dying to get back into [it].”

Said one study participant, “We all marry our second or third or fourth best choice. It’s just life.”

This article echoes Lori Gottlieb’s Atlantic article-turned-bestseller, Marry Him! The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough. In it, Gottlieb counseled women to forget the search for a mythical soulmate and nab a good man who wants to be a husband and father (lest they end up, like Gottlieb herself, alone and regretful at 40).

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  1. 1

    I’m not terribly surprised.   Men aren’t really any less likely to want a loving, fulfilling relationship than women.   Perhaps they are just a bit more reasonable and willing to compromise because they also bear most of the burden of rejection.   There are, of course, those men that refuse to settle for anything less than June Cleaver in a Playboy bunny’s body, but I don’t think your average man is quite that blind.   However, I do think that because of greater freedom and less actually “need” to have a husband than generations past has made women pickier.   Picky isn’t even bad, as long as you’re being picky about the right things.   No alcoholic, drug-addicted, mean-tempered people?   Check.   But 6′ 2″, $100,000/yr, and emotionally available too?   Perhaps that’s just a tad unrealistic.   The only problem I have is that relaxing the criteria for tall, well paid, muscular, blonde, etc. is lumped in with excluding the mean alcoholics and drug addicts when the word “settle” comes up.   Why in the world would you lump that stuff together?
    Still, I was concerned about one of those statistics, and that was the 21% who would commit to a woman they are not sexually attracted to.   It could be because I’m not a guy, but the idea of having sex with someone I don’t find sexually attractive is pretty horrible to me.   Mostly because, if I don’t find him sexually attractive, I’m not going to enjoy having sex with him.   Doesn’t it work the same for men?   If so, this just seems like they are setting themselves up for failure, either with affairs later or sexual frustration for one or both partners.   That really disturbs me.   Any thoughts on that, Evan?

    1. 1.1

      I’m one of those men who doesn’t sleep with women who I’m sexually attracted to. It has little to do with my desire but more to do with the fact that I don’t have a choice. I’m pretty realistic about my looks and quality but I’m not really able to get with a woman that I’m even marginally attracted to physically. At some point you have to give up on being with someone that you want to have sex with, talk with, or play with. You just hope to not be alone for a short time.
      I did however sleep with a woman when I turned 40 that I was attracted to. It was an amazing experience but one that I don’t think I’ll ever have again.  

      1. 1.1.1

        tragic, lol

      2. 1.1.2

        You’re right. With that attitude, you are never going to get a woman that you find attractive. Man. WAKE UP. You can do anything in this world. You can get anything you want from this world. Unless you look like an atrocious, hairy gorilla… you can get very decent-good looking women Do you have other good qualities besides looks to offer? Are you funny? Can you make a girl laugh? Are you intelligent? Are you good at anything? You know, ur personality is what makes a girls pussy drip far more than good looks.   Learn something and become great. It angers me to see people settle. I know a friend just like you, and it’s a shame to see him SUCK. Either change your ways, or   stop spreading such negativity… You have one life to live.  Get “REALISTIC” out of your vocab. Good luck. I believe in you. You can get the life you want!

      3. 1.1.3

        Funnumbered, I have a very similar experience.   Never had the courage as a young person to go after my “one”, you know the type of woman who turns you on……really on

        Now in my forties, earning big money, and in a marriage where I settled, I was “hunted” at a work conference by a woman who was 100% my type.   She was successful attracting me, and after drinks we made crazy love together.

        I wish I never settled, and it was better to think what I felt was not possible.   It was an absolute amazing experience.   I wish I was young in this generation where technology helps bring people together.

        Oh  well, life is cruel, could never leave my wife who flat needs me.   And I suppose the experience is now a reminder I settled, big time!

      4. 1.1.4

        This is the reality for ugly men. Gotta take what you can get. Keep lowering your standards until the constant rejection finally stops. If you’re unwilling to do that, your options are either gold diggers/settlers, getting plastic surgery or spending the rest of your life alone. Sexual attraction is a luxury not everyone can afford, and it’s absolutely horrifying how much society has us all convinced otherwise. Not every ugly guy has enough material or social resources necessary to “attract” a settler or gold digger and get that coveted once-a-month starfish sex with one.

    2. 1.2

      Like yourself, I’m a bit of a amateur sociologist; I’ve watched and pondered dating / relationship behavior, ie, Men are from Mars, & women are from Venus.

      I’ve always felt there was equal blame for both men and women’s frustration in achieving a satisfying relationship. But your view that you feel that women may be more “picky” is interesting.

      May I offer my observation that this unfulfilling relationship situation may be geographically biased? I’ve observed that the majority of the women, (and I’m sure the following also applies to men), on metro area dating sites, (like the NYC Metro area),, are VERY picky and explicit about their expectations on the sort of man they want.

      But for science, I’ve browsed the women in Vermont, or PA, or Massachusetts, or Maryland, etc, and the sentiments and expectations that were expressed were substantially different, ie, down to earth and realistic.

      So I suspect that a significant part of the relationship difficulties encountered by both men and women in large Metro areas is “greedy”, ie, they are being “sold” from a few different sources, like society, and singles dating services, advertising, etc, to “not settle”, that “they deserve the best”, & if he or she hold out long enough, he or she will get the prince or princess they deserve.

    3. 1.3

      PS to Sthrnphoenix: I’m a 6’2″ man, intelligent, handsome, well spoken, own my own home, earn 100K, etc, AND live in the NYC Metro area, and I encounter a great deal of deal of women who apparently deem me not worthy of their consideration.

      1. 1.3.1

        something isn’t right then maybe ur not as handsome as u think and if u are maybe ur only going for 10s

      2. 1.3.2

        @ralph. Why are you living up to THEIR expectation. Fuck their expectation. Whats your expectation? Do you want a 45 year old ugly middle aged money grubber? I doubt it. Think very clearly and plainly about what you want and get much much more impatient about getting it.  She should do the same. Miss 100k a year lover, you want a surfer husband? How much are you looking? You’re talking to 10 surfers a week. Make it 100. Whatever you are doing times it by ten. At the very least you will get a reality check, best a husband/wife. But you will be at least 10 times more likely to find it.

        I am so baffled by pathetic people sitting around pondering about why they are pathetic and doing nothing about it. Doing anything is better than nothing. My bet is that you won’t do anything though. haha.

    4. 1.4

      Why do you think you’re up to the standard of a guy 6’2 earning 100k a year and good looking? Do you look like a playboy model? are you over 22? If you don’t look like that and are over 22 why would he go out with you? I earn more than that and my girlfriend does look like a playboy model. I learnt at some point that girls with expectations like yours justify ignoring you. If you don’t let a guy under 6 foot talk to you, why should I talk to you if you’re over 48kg or over 22? I shouldn’t. It wasn’t until I was older that I shouldn’t feel bad about it though. =P

    5. 1.5
      Demareua D Pope

      Sorry i am not evan but youre right. It works that way for me at least. I cant go a lifetime having sex with someone im not attracted to.

  2. 2

    Sorry, but I don’t believe any of this has to do with gender differences or gender issues. Men and women, who have a lot going for them in terms of looks, money, career, intellect etc do NOT settle because they don’t need to. The “settling” is almost always done by those who are lacking in these areas. The difference here is that women tend to expect more from marriage and would rather be alone than in a less than satisfactory union. Their ability to make friends and their emotional resilience ensure they are never lonely. The other point is that women with lower “market value” have gotten used to being alone, not having been asked out on dates or having been dropped for someone “better”. Men on the other hand, get the message a bit later. They initially refuse to believe (because their egos won’t let them) they have low market value as partners, and keep trying and trying and finally they realise they are not going to get what they want or think they deserve.

    1. 2.1

      Many men settle because they try to marry when they are too young, and are less marketable.   A man in his 40s has what a woman wants if he is industrious:   a position of relative power, income, stability, he is more mature emotionally, and when compared to his younger self……MUCH more desirable!  
      My advise to any man who is reading this and in his 20s, work on your career, set yourself up for success in 10 years, and DONT let a woman move in with you!
      You will amaze yourself at how many women will find you irresistible when you are older, stable, and in charge of something other than the TV remote.

      1. 2.1.1

        So basically your saying that your only value in this future relationship is to provide for this woman that comes alone now that your stable?

        1. AJ

          I agree with you, Mike!

        2. Pan

          Yes indeed

      2. 2.1.2

        Daniel said: “My advise to any man who is reading this and in his 20s … A man in his 40s has what a woman wants

        I disagree.
        I was married at 25, divorced at 35, and had one 1-year and one 4-month relationship in my 40’s.   I’m in my 50’s now and still basically alone for almost 20 years.   Apparently I don’t have what a woman wants.
        By the time you get to your 30’s and 40’s, the number of available single women is going to be considerably smaller than in your 20’s.
        And a good chance that any at that age will be divorced with kids from at least one or two other men.
        And any women who are single never married and chose their career first until they were 40, chances are they are looking for the top 1% to 5% of men, which most of us regular guys won’t make the cut.

      3. 2.1.3

        very true I don’t make 6 figures and I am about an 8 in looks make 60000 a year no kids 32 but struggle with women who are 8s 9s or 10s because f there requirements I usually dip out fast I am currently settling with a 7 with a 10 personality

      4. 2.1.4
        janik Litalien

        Leykis 101 wisdom

      5. 2.1.5

        Statistics don’t support this. People are most likely to marry peers and those in their own socio-economic class. The closer you are in age, the higher likelihood your marriage will last and you will consider yourself happy. Google it…

        True, you can probably have affairs with younger women, but odds are they won’t marry you. You’ll be an experience for them.  Older women have the same situation with young men.

    2. 2.2

      Settle is just an English word. But let me tell you what settle means in this regards.

      Each person is a product of their own personal life experience and maturity indeed comes after a certain level of experience. Whoever a mature person finds attractive, is that person that attributes what he or she finds comfortable.

      Have you ever heard of the phrase: beauty is skin deep? That means beauty is in the SOUL! What attracts is in the soul. It is subconscious and cannot be influence by anything from the conscious state. Each soul develops from personal life experience and it subconsciously connects to another soul that matches its vibration.

      Materiality, a pretty face, and social status have no bases in soul attraction otherwise there won’t be divorces across many high class societies today. In fact, these type of things even kill the soul or subconscious state. So the simple reason why a man or woman settling for what seam socially awkward is incomprehensible is because its a soul connection and it subconscious.

    3. 2.3

      Interesting viewpoint, (and indirectly supports my view), ie “not having to settle”, and also, “selling” their [perceived] self worth.

      But as I’ve offered earlier to Sthrnphoenix, I think that it’s also influenced by geography, ie, the greater “database” in large Metro areas.

  3. 3
    Shaswata P

    Pleasure is nothing positve in any intrinsic way….examine pleasant sensations and realize that objectively it doesnot bring any innate benefit…when men relaize this they will also not feel any need to chase after women …

    Men will then settle for No Miss and not just Ms. Good Enough…Hope this helps everybody Thank you  

  4. 4

    Sometimes i think that being single is not such a bad idea after all.

    1. 4.1
      Karmic Equation

      It isn’t a bad idea at all. Being smart, strong, successful, and SINGLE is an awesome combination, provided you’re confident and happy and don’t define your either your worth or your happiness on whether or not there is a significant other in your life.Having a man (or a few men, if you are willing to juggle) ADDs to an already happy life; having a man doesn’t magically CREATE a happy life.  

      I’ll admit that monogamy is my default setting BUT I’ve come to recognize that for me, monogamy is a convenience. It’s EASIER to plan your life around just ONE man than multiple. It’s EASIER to have a bf, than multiple lovers, because then you have some power to plan your time together. When you only have lovers without commitment from them, you’re subject to THEIR schedule, which often doesn’t sit well with most women, because we like to do things on OUR schedule not theirs. It’s EASIER to love just one man, focus our overthinking on one man, talk about just one man with our friends, etc., — because if we talk about dating multiple men with our friends, then we must be “sluts”, right? Wrong. Don’t judge yourself and you won’t care what other people think.  

      FTR, I’m not talking about “juggling” booty calls at 11pm at night. I’m talking about going on actual   dates (dinner and a shared activity, for me it’s often pool or karaoke) with Lover A on Saturday at the last minute because your calendar happened to be free anyway, while knowing you have a date (dinner and a shared activity) with Lover B next Wednesday because he lives further away and needs to schedule time to see you.   And if you feel like it, you can schedule other dates with new men that intrigue you from online dating sites as time permits. If you EMBRACE the idea that not having commitment FROM a man gives you the FREEDOM from committing yourself to the WRONG man, you’re only as alone as you want to be. You’re free to date as many men as you find attractive or intriguing.  

      That said, of course there are times when I feel like doing something but neither Lover A nor Lover B have called/scheduled. Sure there are company functions or other events where it would be great to have a significant other be at your side. But if you love your own company and are fun to be around, going stag to those functions and events are FUN. You can come and go as you please. You don’t have to worry about your date having a good time or not. You’re free to flirt with other single men at those events.

      Yes, I might feel a little lonely sometimes — but sometimes we feel lonely whether or not there is a significant other in our lives; and if you’ve chosen poorly, you might feel more lonely IN a relationship than when being single.  

      When I feel lonely, that’s when I do housework, go work on my pool game, call up girlfriends to go do something, etc.   That momentary feeling of loneliness passes. Unfortunately, most women would spend their “lonely time” doing *destructive* things (like overthinking or questioning her worth) — which *destroy* both her self-esteem and possibly the burgeoning relationships with men in her life — instead of using that lonely time to do *constructive* things that *develop* her self-esteem and her relationship with herself.

  5. 5

    Yes, sthrnphoenix, this is what I didn’t get from the study too – that men will settle for women they weren’t sexually attracted to ?!? Makes me think this study is flawed. Then again, maybe it is just in the wording. I think it is more likely that men and women settle for partners they find attractive enough to have sex with. There is absolutely no way any man or woman will have a partner they did not find attractive. For a man, sex becomes   impossible because there needs to be a physical reaction for that to happen. For women, sex is possible only in a technical sense. She will be loathing every minute of it and unless there is utterly no way out for her, she will be gone.

    1. 5.1

      Maybe a bunch of these men are saying “most of the women I have been with haven’t wanted all that much sex with me, so not much of a problem to marry someone I don’t find attractive. At least that way I won’t get turned down as often.” Which is of course more of a comment on the men’s desirability than it is on the women they have dated.

      The assumption that a guy will wait for a woman who IS interested in having lots of sex with him misses the reality that many guys are not going to find a smart, educated, caring, decent woman who is interested in having sex with him. The typical woman in that group is likely to be turned on only by the top few percentiles of men. For a guy who is not in the tip top percentiles, he can either compromise on her level of sexual desire for him or compromise on her other characteristics. For a guy who figures he is going to end up with someone who is not all that hot for him anyway, marrying a woman he isn’t that hot for is probably a smart move on his part.

  6. 6

    My opinion is that this article is scary! I’m in my 20’s and I don’t really like to think that I will marry someone who thinks I’m his second best thing… Perhaps it’s because I grew up watching the Disney fairy-tales where love is instantaneous and forever. It’s hard for me think that I will be someone who doesn’t really feel anything for me, doesn’t think of me when I’m not around, doesn’t miss me, doesn’t dream about me… And that’s why maybe I won’t get married and neither will most of the females my generation! Since we don’t need men financially, we want to be with someone because of the true love that exists, so we refuse to ”settle”. We heard that men settle, it’s not surprising for us to know they marry their 2nd or 3rd choice, but nobody wants that! No girl is taught to be realistic when it comes to love and when they see men drooling over stupid supermodels like they are goddesses but being with us just because it’s life it’s enfuriating! Oh, if only men weren’t so shallow and average-looking girls actually had a chance…

    1. 6.1

      I’m probably much older than most here, but my experience with men is that they always think they can do better and don’t seem to mind letting you know that, even in a passive/aggressive way.   This has been going on forever.   I believe the women mentioned in this article that men want are exactly what Patricia points out: supermodels.   Their marrying their second and third choice which are real women.   So sad that they have to feel like they settled. My daughter (late teens) has noted this also.   She often states “how can we compete when guys have such unrealistic expectations” referring to the beautiful girls in the media that they point out are so perfect.   She also says she will probably never marry cause they really don’t want real women. She’s picking up the vibe already from guys that real women just can’t live up to what they want.   And, yes, no one (man or woman) wants to spend the rest of their life with someone who thinks they are second best.   My advice to my daughter:   Don’t get married unless you are the world to him. We all deserve to have someone love us totally.

    2. 6.2

      if ur not at least an 8 we men will always look for satisfaction seriously Icare about my girlfriend whos a 7 but would not hesistant to knock down a Kristin kruek looking girl if it was offered to me

      1. 6.2.1
        Doesn't matter

        Pardon me, but… what are you in a scale of 1 to 10 and what makes you think that she  doesn’t prefer a Brad Pitt or to LEAVE  YOU for a good man  if given the chance? You talking here like this of your GF is disgusting. I hope she realises what you are and leave you. Because it is one thing to FANCY a hollywood actor and another to say I’d bang anyone better if I could (which, by the way, allows us to see you are not even a 5 and should be grateful you got to have a 7….

    3. 6.3

      This cuts both ways and I think the adversarial attitude we have f men vs. women is toxic.

      The data suggests that women are even more shallow than men on dating apps, which, granted is not a representation of ALL women, does show that women have the same unrealistic standards as men. In this world of smartphones and big cities, it’s easy to think there are enough hotties to go around, but truth is, women only find 10 percent of the male population attractive, 10% to be average, and 80% un-dateably ugly.   You guys settle as well.

      Women categorically refuse to date men under 5’10” and in the US, minority men are also demerited by many women.  At the end of the day, no one is happy except for those who have brains that are not wired to seek physical attractiveness and can find a satisfying relationship with someone who doesn’t fit the mold. I hate that modern society and the media dictate what turns us on. But it’s the way it is and we are powerless to stop it.

  7. 7

    Average look girls probably have a much better chance than average looking males.   When a woman initiates contact on an online-dating site, they are 5-6 more times likely to get a positive response and eventual date than if a man does.
    I don’t know how much truth there is to the adage of men dreaming of many women and women dreaming of one man, but I think the opportunities for single women are significantly greater than single men. Women can afford to be picky.   And make jokes about men gawking at supermodels…

  8. 8

    @Patricia #6
    The problem with average men and women is this: to the average man, the average woman looks great.   To the average woman, the average man looks like crap.
    Truth is, in dating, average women still can come out on top by being pleasant and kind-hearted.   The average man, on the other hand, pretty much has to move Heaven and Earth to get a woman’s attention.   Even after that, he has to bring his A game because it’s one thing to get your foot in the door, but something totally different to stay in the door.
    Not being one of the “alphas” myself, I’ve had to develop such things as wit, humor, and charm, since I never had the luxury of female attention.   This isn’t me being negative, but just merely reflecting what I’ve seen over the years.
    It’s pretty much given that if you’re lacking in one arena, you bolster up the others.   (i.e.   if you’re an average looking guy, then you have to boost wit, charm, humor, and kindness through the roof)

    1. 8.1

      See my comment above too.   An average man who has really made something out of himself (ie a true career that he planned out, educated himself appropriately, and so forth) will have an “alpha” edge to hi relative to the younger version of himself.

      1. 8.1.1
        Geoff Gander

        Agreed, Daniel, but I would also add my own view.
        Being “alpha” to me also means being comfortable in your own skin and not depending on other people’s opinions to validate who you are.   Money and power can bring comfort and make it *easier* to be who you want to be, but they will not (IMO) give you the inherent confidence that you project.   I felt differently when I was in my 20s (I was anxious to climb the ladder and impress people), but now that I’m 40 and starting over I feel I have more perspective.   At least, it seems so to me.
        I’m probably not “alpha” by society’s definitions, but to be honest I don’t really care.   I have a decent job that pays my bills and lets me live reasonably comfortably; I drive a modest car that’s paid for; I have partial custody over two boys whom I love and who look up to me; I have a very small circle of friends, but I know they have my back; and I have a few hobbies that bring me great joy.   All I’m really missing is a like-minded woman to share that with, but I have finally realised that I don’t *need* it in order to survive.
        So now that I’m dating (and I have read many of Evan’s articles for tips – very helpful) I’m just focusing on being honest and above all being myself – alpha or not.   That’s the truest representation of what kind of package a woman will get if she agrees to a relationship with me, anyway.   Sometimes the women vanish during the email discussion before the first date is even set.   Sometimes I get a date (or two).   I don’t let my failures define my worth as a man.
        My $0.02.

        1. twinkle

          @Geoff Gander 8.1.1: You sound like an amazing guy with a great attitude. I believe u’ll meet a terrific woman in the near future, but it’s nice to see that u have happiness in the meantime.

          I believe the people who will end up in the happiest relationships are those who–like u–are reasonably content while single. Too many pple think of happiness as this distant goal that they’ll finallly have one day when they’ve achieved Goals A, B, C, D etc, but I think happiness should be something that we constantly have even while trying to improve ourselves and our lives.

        2. Sharon

          Speaking as a woman, your comments Geoff are very reassuring and I think that the life you have created and learned to value along with your self-assurance will attract just the right woman for you.   It  is interesting and educational to read a man’s perspective on dating.

    2. 8.2

      What Raiden says is true. Definitely.

      Adding to this is that women grow   used to being able to date above their grade when they are young but as they age they find they have to date their own grade. Their expectations are set unreasonably high from earlier in their lives. They want to be treated like they are princesses but they are just ordinary women.  

  9. 9

    I’m a hopeless romantic and huge believer in manifesting the life you think you are going to have. So, I would firstly say, if people have the attitude that they will never meet their perfect partner and their time is running out, of course they are going to ‘panic marry’. But I think it is such a shame, because I do really think everyone is capable of great happiness with someone and when you marry someone who you don’t truly feel that 100% for, you are not only preventing yourself from meeting your Mr/Mrs Right, you are also stopping your partner from meeting theirs. I have felt so much heartache seeing people marry someone because they have just ‘given up on the seach for love’. It’s not good for either party to be together because they are ‘good enough’. I really hope more people learn to believe they can have true happiness, because I genuinely believe you can. I shall marry someone who I love 100%. After all, the saying goes, ‘What you believe you achieve!’

    1. 9.1

      learned u have to settle someone no ones perfect if u get a 10 she is gonna cheat I guarantee it at least once.

  10. 10

    Raiden, I’m not sure what you are talking about. I mean that part of average women still coming out on top. I was and still am Ms Average and has ALWAYS been left on the shelf. The only men who ever showed interest in me were invariably drunk, old (as in over 60) or had some physical deficit or another (very very bad acne, very bad teeth etc). The fat ones didn’t even bother since it would have taken too much energy and their testosterone didn’t really work either, with all that estrogen receptive fat. Being bereft of choice, I normally gave these blokes a chance to impress me with their personality, despite the handicap. I can truly say that my average looks far surpassed the way below average looks of these men.
    I think it is a truism that men always aim higher than what they think they can get, with the expectation that they just might score that big one occasionally, or even less than occasionally. Just one big score might be enough for their egos. I think men refuse to accept that they just might be below par in the mating stakes. Their egos won’t let them. So they keep trying and trying and trying until finally it dawns on them, perhaps when they are too old and tired to try any more, that they are never going to get what they want, or think they deserve.

    1. 10.1

      You have a chip on your shoulder and it prevents you from seeing the truth. The guys here are pointing out good facts but you are stuck on this thing with guy’s egos. You also insist that you are average looking but only attract less than average looking guys. Well, the bad news is that you are wrong. The truth is, if only 3’s and 4’s and below are hitting on you, then you aren’t a 5 or 6. You are a 4 or below.

      Men and women do the same thing. They both want to get the best looking mate possible. Women do this too. I read in some posts here about that, and somebody posted a video that was informative, where university research had shown how everyone goes for the 9’s and 10’s, but they hold back for the other 9’s or 10’s. Basically, over time we get feedback from the opposite sex about our desirability. If you get offers from many good looking people, then you are at the top. If you don’t get many offers from the good looking people, but do get man offers from average and below, then you are average. If you get offers only from the below average, then you are below average. The good news for women is that plastic surgery is far more accepted as an option. For men, it’s still something of a no-no. Men do do it, but not nearly as many as women and there does seem to be some stigma to it. Men aren’t supposed to do this, just like men aren’t supposed to wear make-up. Women have much more freedom to do extravagant hair styles, clothing options are much more varied, and women can wear make-up, color their hair and things of that nature. The ball is in the court of a woman who isn’t very good looking. She must identify what she feels her weaknesses are and then do something about it. Same holds true for men, but as I said, it seems men don’t have as many options. Also, the market could get flooded if less desirable women all started getting extreme makeovers. Google the reality show contest called “The Swan.” Very average to less than average women were given total make-overs including plastic surgery, working out, diet modification, and other things. In the end, they were stunningly beautiful. OK, what happens if all of the women do this? It would be the same as women earning more college degrees than men but wanting a mate with a degree. Somebody isn’t going to get a man with a college degree. OK, if most of the women become 9’s or 10’s, 80% still aren’t going to get a man who is a 9 or 10. But the good news is that it is very unlikely that all of the women will do this. It’s possible to do it now but many don’t, so that means it’s a good investment to address any serious flaws. It’s really no different than getting braces. Why do we get braces? To look prettier, and that is it. Our teeth did their job just fine before we got braces.

      The guys here have made some good points and one that seems to be ignored is the fact that because men often date down when they are just dating, but then hold out for the best woman they can get if they are looking for marriage, it leaves the left over women bitter. Often they are in denial. Or just resentful towards the men that do want them. They resent the fact that these guys do not measure up to the best men that actually dated them at one point in their lives. This is why the OKCupid women rated 80% of the men as below average That means less than three stars. It takes 4 stars for the system to notify the person of your interest in them. So that means they could have rated 3 stars without triggering an interest message. So why would they rate 80% as below average. If they were voting correctly, at most each star rating would have nearly 20%, or the majority of people would earn between 3 and 4 stars with the larger portion being in 3 stars. Much like how men rated the women. So what is missing? Good looking women don’t date down, typically. So the average men did not get spoiled. They did not get an inflated sense of self worth. Men will try for better but women hold out for better. So may be it is not men, but women who have the ego problem? Hmmmm?

  11. 11

    @Androgynous #10
    What I mean is that, from my experience and observations, an average woman with a nice personality that gives a guy no grief can net more mates on average as opposed to the average man with excellent qualities.
    As far as most men shooting for higher than they think they can get, I can’t speak for all men, but a lot of guys, as denoted from the study, know when to leave well enough alone.   A lot of guys may want to go for the Heidi Klums and Kim Kardashians, but they know they have a better chance of being struck by lightning than to land any of the above types of women.   In short, they go with the best option of woman that they can build a sensible life with.

  12. 12

    i am the voice of the woman who did marry the nice guy that everyone (family and friends) thought was so great. He was great, but for someone else. Everyone kept saying to me “marry him, marry him” and eventually I did. It was a disaster through and through, ending in divorce after 17 years of trying to make it work. My perspective? Hold out for love. I don’t mean the infatuated, intense chemistry type thing, but I do believe passion is something different. If you’re going to live with someone and have a family with them, passion will help you get through anything and make your life together much richer. Marrying your 2nd, 3rd or 4th option is an insult to the other person. They deserve better and so do you.

    1. 12.1

      Needed to hear this! That I’m not being unreasonable when turning down guys I don’t feel 100% passion for, even if they are extremely thoughtful,caring, and attractive. If it’s not genuine love and passion regardless of their attributes – don’t drag someone along who would bring the world to your feet just because you’re scared of being alone

  13. 13

    I’m not   so sure I agree with this study, I mean it’s just an average no pun intended lol! I think women tend to be a bit more shallow than men ( I am a woman) I say men not boys after a guy ( a lot of them not all ) turns I’d say 28 or so he starts appreciating different things about women . I think too when a man looks at what i call avg girl he may see a beautiful woman but when we look we analyze everythin about her and say she is just average women are more detailed oriented men see ugly, pretty , or hot lols

  14. 14

    I am so confused by the comments. First of all, isn’t beauty in the eyes of the beholder, so what is average for some, good looking for others. In my opinion, we need to be looking for compatibility in core values (first), then physical compatibility and so on. Physical appearance fades, what’s underneath stays.

  15. 15

    I think the word “settle” has a negative connotation but what I am hearing is to figure out what qualities are most important to me and let the others slide.   The overall “score” may be a 7 but I have someone with the critical qualities.   For example, I am most attracted to engineers – I find them smart, pragmatic, and reassuring.   Other women are going to see BORING.   I’m sure the men who are “keen” on me have had to make their own “compromises.”   That is fine as long as we both get what is most important.

  16. 16

    I think one difference is perception of “settling.”  I don’t  put people on numerical charts, but  did so  here to make this easier to explain.     This is something I’ve seen from life through the years:

    A guy who is a “5” is certain he deserves an “8” … because “he’s not so superficial and can date regular girls.”   When he strikes out with 8’s and 7’s long enough, he “settles” for 6’s.   She may still have more going for him than he does, but he “settled” by not getting the women he wanted most.     As Raiden said: ” lot of guys may want to go for the Heidi Klums and Kim Kardashians, but they know they have a better chance of being struck by lightning than to land any of the above types of women. ”   So, instead, they go for the second best looking women in the room, instead of the first.   And call it “settling.”

  17. 17

    This one is tricky, Evan. Too many unmeasurable variables. I am an average, modest person inside (always have been) who once upon a time had above average looks outside. (now I am 50, I still look pretty good but I am realistic about my aging)

    10 years ago I was with an average guy who deemed me “out of his league” but instead of appreciating my wonderful, intangible qualities all he focussed on was my looks; and since I never would treat him badly (I would never treat anyone badly) he started to treat ME badly.

    I went on to experience some inexplicable behaviour from him – I think that he (men?) equate kindness and niceness with low self esteem, and he began to push buttons trying to elicit some kind of diva behaviour from me – maybe to justify his own low self esteem and deal with the fact that he always felt not good enough to be with me. It’s as though he would be pushing me away, expecting me to justify why I would chose to be with him, well, it worked – it became unbearable and I finally left…

    I have always looked for the good, decent man with quality character – height and looks, hair, occupation, etc. have never been factors for me, (although being grossly overweight and some unhealthy lifestyle choices are my dealbreakers)

    But for some reason, being open, approachable and warmly welcoming has had the opposite effect – it’s as though if a woman is not mysterious and hard to get she is not worth the effort. Do men think that a woman is settling if she is agreeable and easy to be with???
    Guys? What do you think?

    1. 17.1

      Tontae, I sooo get what u say…my current situation- it will sound less than humble, I am way above average in my looks for my age category BUT recently experienced a large weightloss– so now instead of being”u have such a pretty face if u only lost some weight” I am “pretty” – I just joined a pay online dating site & the men have acted so oddly to me- I got dozens of the same comment in various wording: “u must have dozens of dates, i’d ask u out but u r prob too busy”- so I sit home or go out w/ another female. When I go out w/ females, I get stared at & even if I am open & friendly, they approach the more plain friend.

      The men who have approached, upon seeing my polite personality oftentimes get quite rude (at this point they get cut off)    
         “10 years ago I was with an average guy who deemed me “out of his league” but instead of appreciating my wonderful, intangible qualities all he focussed on was my looks; and since I never would treat him badly (I would never treat anyone badly) he started to treat ME badly.
      I went on to experience some inexplicable behaviour from him — I think that he (men?) equate kindness and niceness with low self esteem, and he began to push buttons trying to elicit some kind of diva behaviour from me — maybe to justify his own low self esteem and deal with the fact that he always felt not good enough to be with me. It’s as though he would be pushing me away, expecting me to justify why I would chose to be with him, well, it worked — it became unbearable and I finally left…
      I have always looked for the good, decent man with quality character — height and looks, hair, occupation, etc. have never been factors for me, (although being grossly overweight and some unhealthy lifestyle choices are my dealbreakers)
      But for some reason, being open, approachable and warmly welcoming has had the opposite effect — it’s as though if a woman is not mysterious and hard to get she is not worth the effort.

  18. 18

    @ Androgynous #10
    I don’t know if you can appreciate the irony of what you wrote…

  19. 19

    There has to be something between the kind of settling that seems to be described here and the fairy tale stories that get so many of us in trouble. Marrying someone because basically they are “nice” and are willing to start a family seems pretty depressing if you ask me.
    I’m not convinced that the 31% of men claiming they’d commit to someone they aren’t in love with are telling the truth either. Or perhaps it’s more accurate to say that I’m not at all convinced that the men interviewed in the study had similar views of what “in love” means. Some might have rejected the notion believing it meant the kind of passion people tend to feel in the early stages of a relationship, something that doesn’t last in the long term.  
    But I do agree that there are many men out there who want to commit. That part of the research is accurate.

  20. 20

    Tontae #17,
    This is a tough one.   While I want to say it shouldn’t matter, I just think it’s human nature for both men and women to become more intrigued by someone perceived as harder to obtain.
    I know that I’ve done better, that is, have had woman more attracted to me when my attention was divided.   Conversely, when I’ve acted even a bit more than casually interested, I have never got the girl.
    Once in a relationship, this should all go out the window as I think you are both equals at that point.

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