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I’ve been reading your blog weekly for almost 6 months, and have been many of your past archives. I’ve not seen this question answered before, so here goes: Where do you draw the line when your girlfriend asks for money? We’ve enjoyed each other immensely for the last 9 months… until she decided to return to school to get an advanced degree. She now can only work part-time, and has trouble paying her bills. On top of that, her car recently died and she had no money to get another one. I gave her some money to help her get a used car, but she still struggles to pay her ($1,000 per month) mortgage and other bills. She says that since she would do anything for me if I had problems, she expects her man to do likewise for her. I have a decent job (making about 100K per year), but I just don’t like the idea of giving anyone money. We appear to be breaking up over this, since she says she really can’t stand the thought of her man not helping her out if he can afford to do so. Am I wrong?
Bob
Dear Bob,
Congratulations. You’re her sugar daddy.
As I see it, the real problem here is that you bailed her out without having a commitment – and now she feels entitled to more bailout money. You’re the U.S. Government, she’s AIG – and your relationship is still ill-defined.
She’s relying on you as a husband even though you’re not a husband. Which makes this a good time to ask yourself: do I want to marry this woman
And, if not, breaking up might not be the worst thing in the world.
As I see it, the real problem here is that you bailed her out without having a commitment – and now she feels entitled to more bailout money. You’re the U.S. Government, she’s AIG – and your relationship is still ill-defined.
That ill-defined relationship – 9 good months together without living together or getting engaged – seems to have created a blurry set of expectations on her part. She genuinely thinks that your money is her money and is depending on you to carry her while she tries to work and go to school simultaneously.
And unless you agreed to that arrangement, you’re allowing yourself to be used by her. It’s really easy for her to say that she’d do anything for you – in theory, I’m sure she would. But what if you decided you were going to quit your six-figure job to be supported by her as you attend art school. And to supplement that, you asked for an allowance, because affording rent, tuition and supplies was suddenly cost-prohibitive? I’ll bet she’d be singing a different tune.
The rules do change when you’re living together, engaged, or married. If I’m paying $3000/month rent and my fiance lives in my room and can’t afford to contribute much to our monthly expenses, that’s fine.
If her car gets dinged and she’s too cash-poor to fix it, I’ll offer a loan, which she may or may not repay.
Hell, this year, my wife underdeclared her taxes and I had to spend a decent chunk of change to make it right with the IRS. Was I thrilled? No. But that’s the sacrifice of marriage. That’s what you do in a partnership.
The bigger issue, Bob, is this: the RIGHT woman doesn’t WANT you to bail her out. The right woman wouldn’t ASK you to subsidize her education and strain your finances.
Think about what would happen if you were to break up with her. Would she be homeless? Would she have to quit school? Would she have to get a different job? Would she have to move to a cheaper place? Whatever it is, she is fully responsible for herself. And by taking responsibility for HER lack of finances, you are the enabler who allows this to continue…and then you resent her for it.
The RIGHT woman doesn’t WANT you to bail her out. The right woman wouldn’t ASK you to subsidize her education and strain your finances.
If you think this woman is your future wife, then perhaps this is a sacrifice that you want to make on her behalf. But if she’s not, I’d put a stop to it right this second.
So, in answer to your question: “Am I wrong?”: if you’re wrong about anything, it’s in being TOO generous with a woman who is perfectly content in exploiting your generosity.
““
I had a very different take on this situation than Evan did. I didn’t get that she’s trying to exploit him, but that she genuinely views them as partners and likely sees the relationship as more serious/permanent than he does.
That doesn’t make it right; I think it’s a piss poor idea for an adult woman to be financially dependant on anyone, married or not. Hopefully she’s getting the type of degree that will provide a positive ROI in terms of real dollars and she won’t find herself in this situation again. But it does mean that her crime is being naive and a bit misguided as opposed to being an exploitative gold digger.
What made me read the letter in a more sympathetic way was her ‘i’d do anything for you and we’re in this together’ reasoning versus ‘you’re a man and it’s your job to take care of me’. Had she said the latter I’d see a problem, but that didn’t seem to be her attitude here.
Easy to say what you “would” do when you got your hand out. You “would do” anything and it means nothing. This woman is exploiting. She put herself in an untenable situation and then dumps it on her boyfriend who could afford it because he has a job. This situation has a really bad ring to it, rally bad!
If she is truly in this relationship, she should not break the relation beacuse of this issue. Otherwise she is just not really worth it
Independent working woman will never ask for money. She is doing so thus once her boyfriend stops giving cash , I am sure she will dump him blaming that he cannot provide for her. Suppose this girl marries this boyfriend and the boyfriend for some reason stops earning. Then you can very well assume she will leave him because she is under impression her boyfriend is to spend for her and not the other way round.
To me, saying ‘I’d do anything for you’ when asking for money is emotional blackmail. It’s unfair. She sounds entitled. She has choices, she can sell her house/apartment or get in a roommate. If he wasn’t around, what would her choices be? It sounds like she may have put herself in that situation (going back to school) thinking of her boyfriend as her back-up plan. That’s wrong, unless HE made the suggestion in the first instance and told her ‘I know this is really important to you so go for it and I’ll support you’.
I hate it when people pressurise others to help them out financially.
Emotional financial blackmail is very unfair
Yes when I met my ex he had no cent, only thing in his fridge was a bottle of water and I had enough so I gave him. A friend also dated a guy w no money but she had it and didnt give him. I didnt get that. Then why date him? If you want your money for yourself or a rich spouse date someone else.
Bob said: (original post)
“She says that since she would do anything for me if I had problems,”
Maybe she would. Maybe she wouldn’t.
Relationships are a two way street. As much as we talk about “unconditional love” in relationships, there’s a lot of quid pro quo in the early stages. (Familial relationships, like parent-child, are an exception.)
How does someone become my confidant? They confide in me, and they don’t betray my confidences. I don’t start out by discussing my biggest secrets. I start with smaller stuff and see what happens.
I’ve loaned friends $1,000 or more, but it wasn’t the first loan. I loaned them a small amount, and they repaid me. I loaned them a larger amount, and they repaid me. Eventually they had built up the trust where I felt confident that they would repay larger amounts. And some of them loaned me money too.
It doesn’t sound like Bob’s girlfriend has taken the necessary steps to prove that she would “do anything” for him.
Hear, hear! Dump her!
My reactions to this:
1) Is there ANY reason this woman can’t get student loans like EVERYONE ELSE who goes back to school and finance her life that way? If she hasn’t taken them out, it’s not too late to start – you can file your FAFSA late and/or ask for a budget reevaluation that will increase the amount of her aid. If things continue to go well with these two, then perhaps they will get married and he will feel differently about paying her loans off than he did about paying for her lifestyle upfront (or maybe she will make enough money after the additional schooling to pay them off herself).
2) If everything else in the relationship is good and this is only making him uncomfortable because they aren’t engaged/living together, then perhaps she should sell her house (or he should sell his) and they should move in together. FWIW, this is one of the reasons I will NEVER buy a house. You can always downgrade easily if your life situation changes and you are renting. The same is not true, as we have seen over and over in this economy, if you “own” (I put own in quotation marks since if you don’t have your house completely paid off you are really still renting from the REAL owner, which is the bank, only you get all the liability – in what universe is that a deal?).
3) Observation from my life – this isn’t really a gender issue or an income issue. It seems to me to be a money-management issue, which is totally separate. I have lent the BF thousands of dollars on numerous occasions, including a) when I was still in grad school making $14K per year and he had graduated and was making $90K, and b) now that I’ve graduated as well but am making less than half of what he does (he has about $7K on one of my credit cards because my interest rates are so much better than his).
He is very responsible with money *now* – has paid off about $15K in credit cards and not made a single charge to the plastic since he started working, but he is digging himself out of a VERY deep hole that was accomplished either before he met me or when we had been dating less than a year and I didn’t really have a say (or even know anything, since I didn’t feel it was appropriate to ask yet) about his finances. If I wasn’t confident that he’d learned the error of his ways then I wouldn’t be dating him or lending him money. As it is, I am confident in our future.
However (again FWIW) there is no way in HELL I would have loaned him money when we’d been dating less than a year. At that time, I would have run as fast as my little legs could go. But that’s hardly blanket advice for anyone’s situation – this one may be different. Only Bob can say.
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Wow, I’m really looking forward to reading other people’s comments as I have not thought about this issue whatsoever. I’ve never been in this situation.
Evan has a great point. If the situation was inverted into a guy not thinking his finances through before making a big commitment, then asked his girlfriend to supplement his income and pay for his short sightedness there would be a chorus of “throw the bum out” from men as well as women.
It isn’t that neat and clean.
Contemporary American culture is fairly heterogeneous in what it expects from adult females. Even limiting things to just my own social circles, I know happily coupled couples who take care of their expenses like single people would on one extreme and on the other extreme I have a friend whose husband pays all of the bills despite them not having children.
Whether a given woman is irresponsible, has unreasonable expectations for the men in her life or not comes down to the particular people you talk to.
I women friends in their mid thirties who take thousands of dollars from their parents and who have not taken a dime from anyone since their teen years. All them consider themselves to be responsible adults.
I think it was shrewd of Evan to suggest drawing the line at wives, live in partners or women with that potential.
A relationship with a GF of nine months could end tomorrow. In that situation getting stuck with 1-2 loans of a few hundred dollars is one thing but getting stuck with much more would be another thing altogether.
I guess it is time for contemporary American men to begin evaluating women by how women handle their finances and their financial expectations of men. Do you want an old school woman, a woman who views her finances the way you would for yourself or the hybrid who take care of yourself but who would view you as an acceptable backup?
Jennifer Jun 18th 2009 at 05:56 am 1
I had a very different take on this situation than Evan did. I didn’t get that she’s trying to exploit him,
Why do you have the impression that Evan though the GF was trying to exploit him?
What made me read the letter in a more sympathetic way was her i’d do anything for you and we’re in this together reasoning versus you’re a man and it’s your job to take care of me. Had she said the latter I’d see a problem
Interesting. I thought I read exactly that with this line from Bob’s letter:
since she says she really can’t stand the thought of her man not helping her out if he can afford to do so.
I think Karl in post #2 bring up a good point.
Bob’s GF is expecting something that happens in relationships that are established past a certain point. It doesn’t seem clear to Bob if they have passed that point yet. Evan tried to define that point as wife/live-in level relationship.
@Steve #4 I think your quote below is right on:
I guess it is time for contemporary American men to begin evaluating women by how women handle their finances and their financial expectations of men. Do you want an old school woman, a woman who views her finances the way you would for yourself or the hybrid who take care of yourself but who would view you as an acceptable backup?
People need to talk about their expectations, and the state of their relationship, so no one is confused.
An interesting way to look at this is to imagine they are in the future telling someone else about the breakup
“My girlfriend and I broke up. She ran into financial trouble from a poor decision she made. I loaned/gave her several thousand dollars. It became clear she would need a lot more. I didn’t want to go there”.
I broke up with my boyfriend. I made some bad decisions and ran into financial trouble. He gave/loaned me several thousand dollars. I needed a lot more. He didn’t feel comfortable giving more money. It made me upset, so I ended the relationship
Which sounds worse to people?
She wouldn’t tell the truth. If she would break up over that she would make up something like he cheated or abused her so the next guy would try to one up him and give her the money.
Hmmm, well it would seem her field isn’t mathmatics or accounting if she couldn’t figure out she wouldn’t be able to pay her basic household expenses with a parttime job.
Sounds like she sees them as partners. Bob doesn’t. I think it’s pretty presumtuous of someone to expect someone else to “help them out” when they aren’t living together or engaged, but who really knows what these people’s relationship is really like? Obviously they are not on the same page and this appears like it will be one of those “piss or get off the pot” turning points in the relationship.
Bob it you really “don’t like the idea of giving anyone money”, you are better off avoiding partnerships and sticking to “just dating”. Also, for God’s sake man, DON’T Have Kids!
Ok so, first of all I wouldn’t ever listen to someone that can’t spell “if” correctly and I’m not going to say Selena’s name but oops. Try proof reading, they taught it in grade school. Best advice here is to start relationships with your own kind. This means middle class people Marry or start relationships with middle class people or rich people marry rich. Whatever happened to dating people that have some of the same things in common which includes finances located at the top of the list.
@ Steve, I think her version would be more like:
I broke up with my boyfriend. I was going back to school so I could get a better paying job, but it made things financially difficult in the short term. He loaned me a little bit of money, but wasn’t comfortable giving me what I actually needed to get by. I thought, if he’s like this now, how will he be if we stay together? So I ended the relationship.
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The biggest problem is that you’re dating her and not married to her. I’m not into being a sugar daddy to someone I’m dating. If you’re married, you are spoiling her or just taking care of her.
He needs to get used to being a sugar daddy or break up. The only 2 choices I see.
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I am in the same situation, although in my case, I work and am saving money to pay for my education. However, my ex girl and I were really close, and I’ve been there for here each time, bailing her out financially. I listen to her each time she has a problem. recently, my girlfriend started taking loans and asking me to help her repay. My ex is in really deep financial problems, which I wudn’t mind helping. However, I feel that both of them are entitled to me helping them out because I am supposed to be the man. I have thought through and thanks to the advice I read here, I am ending both relationships for good.
women will burn through your money and then ask. “Why should I stay with a poor man?”
So well put. This is so true.
i have and fixing to be departed from a similar situation with a younger woman who will be homeless if i stop helping her unless shes really an undercover cop. And at this point im not sure which is more real. Since she hangs out with women and men police frequently. And im not sure what level. But on my end i had falken in love with her and though we never have had src in the two years ive known her she always broke. Ive helped her ALOT. My reasoning was if i had mot been helped ALOT at a phase in my life i would be homeless too. Were breaking up because she borrowed my phone last week cause hers was broke she said. I found out yesterday she had another that wasnt broke she borrowed. When she went missing for about 24 hours i thought hey i can track my phone. And i did, and found my phone and her car at a house in town that was or is owned by a police officer. Whether thats who owns it mow or not i do mot know but from a property search it fits. I told her i tracked and shes mad as hell. Is planning on meeting me today to return it but doesnt want to bring it to my house i guess cause i live far out om not sure. A cop lives close by. So id say to anyone amd have heard it before to follow your heart. I used to be a police officer in my younger days for a brief period might be why i am suspicious at times. I got burned badly on a divorce also. Even with all thats happened id still help her though she wants me out of her life , she says. I may be a fool. When you feel like your in love and have been ostracized by society and a woman shows you affection nobody else will give you, being played or used can happen easily with your eyes wide open and enjoy it.
“People need to talk about their expectations, and the state of their relationship, so no one is confused.”
That pretty much sums it all up, right there.
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What is unclear is if they are living together or not, also, “we have enjoyed each other immensely” can mean different things. If he is “enjoying” having a girlfriend who although may not technically live with him, but is over all the time and acting like a live-in girlfriend/wife, then it does not surprise me that she expects him to act like a live/in boyfriend/husband. Nine months of continuous exclusive dating may lead her to feel that way, or he led her to feel that way. I’m sure she told him of her plans. No one gets into school overnight, there is an application process, she has a mortgage-not rent, a mortgage, so I’m not buying that this is a surprise. There was NO discussion about her working part-time? Nice of him to help her out, but some of this he should have been talking about with her. She’s not totally irresponsible if she owns a house. I appears that she feels the relationship is on one level and he wants it to be a bit less of a committment. Would not classify her as a golddigger or him a sugar Daddy, but if he doesn’t like it, then he should leave. Oh and these will not be loans, he might as well write them off as gifts. I would imagine her take is, my man takes care of me when I need help.
She is OUT OF LINE ! And Bob is being used. I, as a woman, would (and have) bent over backward never to ask for a loan from any man. If you are married is one thing but not even engaged would do. If you want him to be your future husband, do you want to look financially irresponsible to him? I don’t think so! And good point made above, that you could break up at any time and you’d never see that money again, or you could get her thru school and then she could dump you!
Also it is a good sign of how this relationship will be long term, she sounds like a taker to me I have a pal who married one of these and now pays for EVERYTHING and does not realize that is not alright. The relationship only “got better” after he decided to “give everything to be with her, do whatever she wants to make her happy” and he is so obviously being used by her like all her (evil ex’s) probably were, oh and it has only been better for the past two months after almost two years of roller coaster crap and way over 20 breakup makeups including four right before the wedding. Poor man is giving up all his dreams for her, all his savings, his home, his friends, everything, and oh yeah she is over 38 and acts like a pre teen. And years before they were even official he paid for her lifestyle and her grown child’s, because he “loved” her.
Bob is being used like my pal is, and no amount of “love” will change that, I would get out and find a normal woman pronto; I made it through college by cutting back and learning to live frugally it isn’t that hard to do and if all else fails you can get loans.
She could also be like my little brother too, going to “college” for a few semesters (his is military paid) then flunking out or forgetting to register in time and spending the money elsewhere. Then when his sibling is graduating he tries to “register” again but misses the deadline then claims that it is because X,Y and Z reason.
Rinse and repeat for three semesters, and she could do that you know.
Bob I would get out, you do not want to be in a pay to play relationship they never end well and you will lose far too much in the long term.
You make a good point i wished i had read before making a previous comment.
I agree !!!
well said
I don’t think Bob asked this explicitly, but I think he wants to know if there is a way he can stop lending/giving money to his girlfriend and not have it impact the relationship.
What a conundrum! I completely agree with Donna’s post and sentiments. Boy, Suze Orman would have a field day with this woman. In this economy, we are all forced to cut back and tighten the purse strings a bit. If you can’t afford to get an advanced degree (in addition to paying your bills) then maybe now is not the time to go back to school! Bob sounds like a generous soul, but this scenario is a recipe for disaster. Sounds like his GF is manipulating him and he is falling for it hook, line and sinker. I guess love really is blind.
If you watch those court TV shows, like Judge Judy for example, their court rooms are filled with people who loaned money to others – usually girlfriends to boyfriends – and then they say it was a “gift” when they break up. Always in an uncommitted relationship. that what is the beauty of a marriage…what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is yours, and we make decisions and sacrifices together for the common good. I personally agree wholeheartedly with Evan and a little more strictly in fact in that I don’t think, in any circumstances, should there be co-mingling of monies unless the two are married. Not in a “comited” relationship, or “living together” because what is that really? It’s not a marriage and frankly demeans marriage. It always seems to end in trouble when one loans money to another out of wedlock. This girl is trying to hold him hostage by saying essentially “I’d do the same for you” and “I can’t even think of having a relationship with someone who won’t help me”. My advice for him is to gently move on, or be prepared to state your case and stand up to her like a man, regardless of how she reacts.
Whatever happened to student loans? Oh yeah, right, she’d actually have to pay back a student loan. Even if she isn’t “using” Bob, it doesn’t sound like she is financially savvy or independent. She is not “entitled” to a loan from the Bank of Bob just because he makes a good income. Plus, he already HAS helped her out financially, so I don’t think he’s stingy.
I’m sorry, but she should have had a plan for paying her own way without relying on her boyfriend at this point. I could see it if she involuntarily lost her job and was perhaps caught off-guard. But she made a decision to return to school and she should have worked out a way to do that AND pay her bills, including an expensive mortgage. They don’t live together, so it’s not his mortgage to share.
I think Bob is having second thoughts about being involved with a woman who is isn’t financially responsible, and who doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with that.
I agree with the general consensus that she is out of line asking him to borrow money at this stage of the relationship. If he saw her plight and offered, it would be a different story, as it would if they were engaged or living together.
I think whenever you loan someone money informally, you have to be prepared to never see it again. If you think of it as a gift, or that it will come back to you in another way (a raise, a bonus, etc.), it makes it a lot easier. If people thought, “What if I never get repaid?” they might make a different choice about extending a loan.
I’m from a big family, and we’ve all loaned each other money at one time or another. I don’t know how desperate I’d have to be to borrow from a boyfriend of nine months, especially if I owned a home. I don’t share my personal finances in any great detail with someone I’m dating–I don’t think it’s any of his business until we’re talking seriously about cohabitating. That’s one of the perks of being single after having been married to a man who was controlling and obsessed about money–how I choose to spend it is my choice.
I heard the women on “The View” talking this spring about how singles are asking each other their credit scores instead of their astrological signs. Good lord, have we come to that? I’m sure there are a lot of people who will only date someone who is financially responsible, although that in itself encompasses a pretty wide range of behaviors (no debt? having manageable debt? having lots of debt but paying it down?).
I myself prefer to date someone who is at roughly the same station in life as me–it makes choosing a restaurant, planning a vacation, understanding budgeting for college tuition, etc., easier. But I’m comfortable gleaning that information during the first few weeks of dating, rather than demanding it before the first date even takes place. And there’s no guarantee that asking gets you an accurate or permanent answer. Especially in this economy, people’s credit scores and monetary assets can change daily. Payoff your mortgage and decide to rent? Your FICO score actually goes down. Open a new credit card with a high limit ? Your score goes up. A millionaire can have a reversal of fortune in the stock market and become penniless in no time. Businesses fail. Property values decline. My goal is to simply try to start off on the same footing and with similar (or at least compatible) values about money. After that, if you are really with someone for the long haul, married or no, there is an element of “for richer or for poorer” that comes into play…
@Steve # 5
Hey Steve, I got the exploitation theory from this line of Evan’s response:
So, in answer to your question: Am I wrong?: if you’re wrong about anything, it’s in being TOO generous with a woman who is perfectly content in exploiting your generosity.
Earlier he also mentioned that Bob was being used a sugar daddy.
Regarding the line in the letter that you pointed out, i didn’t read ‘man’ as in ‘it’s a mans job’ but more like ‘my man/partner/significant other should help me out’, with the assumption that that would go both ways.
Like Selena and Karl said earlier, i think they just aren’t on the same page regarding the ‘seriousness’ of their relationship, not that she’s being exploitative.
On a side note, the BF’s an attorney, so he has written a contract for any time I’ve lent him any money, always with a proposed repayment schedule for large amounts and a clause that says that he will repay in full immediately should I demand it.
So perhaps that’s a possibility…and if she’s hostile to the idea, then we know where she’s REALLY coming from.
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I always wonder about these relationships that have prenups and contracts. As it is, I find it sometimes hard to have my d#ck stand up with a woman who love me.
so how the hell would I manage to do one with one with a loan contract in my pocket
Given the legal undercurrents and prevalent Court decisions on partnership dissolution, a prenup SHOULD be compulsory, whether we consider marriage or cohabitation (which quickly turns into common law marriage in many States).
Simply put: if both partners have identical financial resources AND contribute equally to expenses and purchases, that prenup may serve little purpose.
BUT, not all relationships are on an equal $ footing, and situations may change (job loss, incapacitation, depression, etc.), so why expose yourself to easily avoidable trouble?
Also, the wo/man with whom you enter a relationship IS NOT the wo/man you leave (or that will leave you). Resentment, anger, revenge, malicious vindictiveness, may come into play. Even if nobody is really at fault!
@bdsista , post #12
If you were dating a man for 9 months and he told you that he was quitting his job to go to school would the thought occur to you that you might become the goto person for large sums of money if he got into trouble?
@Honey post #6
About item #2
What about equity? If you HAVE to sell your house for less than it is worth you still get something back, with rent, it is 100% gone. If a bank forecloses on you, don’t they at least have to give you what you paid on the principal back?
About item #3
Its not a gender issue, for you. It may be for others. As I wrote in comment #4 there are a number of ways for women to view their relationships with men and money in contemporary America that would still allow them to think of themselves as responsible adults. Yes, outside of old school men there are men who would have no problem taking large amounts of money from their women but that is a lot less and a lot newer than the reverse.
@Honey
Seriously? That’s HYSTERICAL. I’d die laughing if anyone I cared about presented me with something like that when they needed money.
You’re hung up, America. Life’s too short.
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@ Steve, #24 – no, if a bank forecloses on you then they keep EVERYTHING you’ve paid. Even if you still only owe $5. In fact, the more equity you have, the more aggressively banks will try to foreclose, because the more likely they are to make money on the deal.
All the personal finance literature I’ve read says that you never get it back either way. Yes, if you pay it off completely you don’t have to pay rent anymore. But you still have to pay property taxes and homeowners’ insurance. OTOH, if you invest what you would have put down on a house in a diversified portfolio with an 8% yield, then the lump sum you have upon retirement is likely to be enough to pay your rent until you die, anyway – and you still have the added mobility of being able to downsize or relocate at will, PLUS no homeowners’ insurance or property tax. Home ownership’s a crock, and especially since the bust, ALL the personal finance experts I’ve seen have said that you should NEVER think of your home as an investment. It is a place to live and that’s all.
I am hard pressed to think of any guy under 30 who wouldn’t hesitate to take a bunch of money from his GF. This is a (horrible) generalization, but this latest generation expects to be taken care of by someone for their entire lives, based only on their own supposed “awesomeness.”
When the BF quit his job to go to law school, his GF (who made substantially more money than him even before he quit AND owned the house they lived in), quit her job, MOVED to where he was going to school, got a new job, bought a new house after they’d been there a year, AND let him pay only like $200 in rent per month.
Boy was she pissed when he broke up with her with 1 year of law school left to go – she had to sell her house (which she’d owned less than a year) and move back to where she came from. Fortunately, her old company had realized how indispensable she was in her absence and gave her the original job back, with like a $20K raise.
In any case, there are still plenty of “old school” guys left as you say. But it’s becoming more and more common for EVERYONE to expect to be taken care of regardless of gender. In higher education, they refer to them as the “snowflake generation” because they’re all so convinced of their utter uniqueness and invaluability. Is that last even a word?
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Interesting question with a lot of interesting comments. I agree with Evan that if Bob continues to give her from a place of feeling like he is sacrificing instead from open heart then he is bound to end up feeling resentful.
I also agree with Jennifer and felt like Bob’s girlfriend is not necessarily asking money from a place of purposefully using him, but instead from honest expectations.
In either way, my advice to Bob would be to have an honest open conversation with his girlfriend to either find a solution like Ava and others suggested, or then to explain her that he simply does not feel ready to commit their relationship into a level where he
feels financially responsible for her.
Hey Bob,
I’ve been there and done that.
She’s manipulating you and you’re allowing yourself to feel guilty and resentful about it. Emotional extortion, guilt and resentment do not a healthy relationship make.
DUMP HER AND CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER. MOVE, IF YOU NEED TO!
MARC´s last blog post…Never Judge a Book By Its Do Rag
I agree with you Marc. He needs to get away from this woman.
To Steve #24: The bank does not return your paid principle in the event of a foreclosure, or in any kind of mortgage situation. If you sell your home for less than its market value, you might still make a profit, but it depends on what your total outstanding mortgage balance is. A lot of homeowners owe more today than their home is worth, but in time, the market will stabilize and values will slowly go up at the pace they should have in the first place.
@Honey #28 Thanks for the finance info. About the other stuff, I’ve seen many articles about what experts believe is an epidemic on narcissism. One more tainted legacy older generations have stuck the youth with. I’m glad I was born when I was.
@Diana post # 27 Thanks for the info!
I’ve lent money to good friends and have been paid back. I’ve lent money to good friends and have never been paid back. And I’ve been quite resentful when I’ve seen the (supposedly) good friends who’ve never paid me back go on to make/have/spend more money than I with no thought whatsoever to repaying me when I helped them out during a hard time. Especially when they knew I was a single mother with limited resources.
Because the resentment would eat me up, I decided a long time ago I would only loan money to people I LOVED. Called it a loan, but IN MY MIND I would decide it was a gift. If they paid me back? Great! If they did not? Didn’t matter because I had already written it off as a gift. Thinking that way made it alot easier to decide whether to help out a friend, or decline without feeling guilty.
I think Steve nailed this entire situation when he wrote: “I don’t think Bob asked this explicitly, but I think he wants to know if there is a way he can stop lending/giving money to his girlfriend and not have it impact the relationship.”
Why isn’t Bob, who states “I just don’t like the idea of giving anyone money able to communicate this to a lover of 9 months?
Most of you seem to smell ‘Golddigger’. I don’t. I’m getting the whiff of, “I don’t quite want to be your partner, but I don’t want to lose you either”.
So, I’m thinking that nobody thinks this is a good situation for the guy and that he should either say no/keep her or dump her.
I am curious about where this sense of entitlement comes from on her part. I do know people who speak very disparagingly of “bean counting” and “score keeping” in relationships, but in my experience these are the people who are usually looking for someone else to pay and don’t like having the issue forced into the open (you know, the kind of date who will make sure he always stands behind you in line at that movies so that you get to the window first and then doesn’t pull out the wallet–then or at any other time).
This situation here is really rather like the “who pays for the date” issue, but writ large.
Though truth is, I’ve seen this behavior in both dates and friends. Some people are just rude.
Hmmm. She says she would do “anything” for him. But that apparently means anything except being financially responsible for herself and her work/school/home/lifestyle choices. Talk is cheap.
What Evan said is right. I wouldn’t burden a guy with financial issue unless he is my husband, then it’s his right to take care of me.. Nonetheless, even if you’re her husband, i think it appropriate that she discuss with you before enrolling herself in school.
@ Steve, that’s part of what I was trying to say. The other is that if they break up, they will each tell the story that flatters themselves the most and fits with their own vision of themselves. Not the story that is truest objectively.
Honey´s last blog post…Good News Follows Good News: Or, LinkedIn Works!?
I would say it’s reasonable for a happy couple to loan each other money and make it a no BS deal where she intends to pay him back at some point. I’m sure the terms would be far better than a bank loan or credit card. Honey makes a good point though, get a student loan, that’s what everyone else does, and what she’ll have to do if/when they break up. I get the sense she’s pressuring him to give the money because he’s got a good salary, which is unacceptable. Dump her if she doesn’t change her tune.
@Curly Girl #33
“This situation here is really rather like the who pays for the date issue, but writ large.”
That thought occured to me also.
Followed by the thought – 9 months in? What else is going on here?
@Honey, comment #13
I didn’t see any difference between your hypothetical ex-GF quote and mine on an objective level. However, on a subjective this line feels emotionally manipulative ( conscious or unconscious):
He loaned me a little bit of money, but wasn’t comfortable giving me what I actually needed to get by
I guess you are trying to tell me that a number of women would see it as getting a reality check of the status of her relationship. He wasn’t ready to make a significant sacrifice on her behalf, so the relationship wasn’t as advanced as she thought it was.
It is interesting to note, beyond this issue, how often being supportive gets equated with a willingness to give money.
If I was in a similar situation I would value encouragement, emotional support and an in interest in what I was trying to do much more than financial assistance.
I remember how powerful one statement of encouragement from my father was. It overrode all of my own doubts about a risky path I took ( and paid for on my own ) and years of his silence and criticisms about it.
I was just thinking about something similar.. It often happens with me that I make a friend, we become good friends in a few months time and then that friend gets into some trouble. Whether its lending him money or getting buying something fro them because they can not afford it.
And the part i hate is as soon as they’ve got their help they just vanish!!! They never call or text!! Its so makes me feel so bad… Now i don’t lend money to my friends unless i know this is a person who just can’t sleep untill he’d pay me back.
Just for fun…since we enjoy speculating on the motives of people we don’t, and never will know…let’s try this possible scenario on for size:
Bob and gf meet either through online or not with the self stated goal of wanting a “LTR”. They hit it off. They really enjoy each others’ company as Bob puts it, and here and there the subject of possible marriage and children in the future comes up. Gf would like to get an advanced degree before starting a family. Reason being, it would benefit the family later on in terms of financial security.
Bob’s all for it. He likes a woman with a higher level of education, not to mention possible higher earning capacity. Yes, this is ideal future wife and mother of his children material. So, Gf goes for it, knowing it will be tight only working part-time, but thinks she can swing it. And 100k a year Bob, could help smooth any rough edges since they share the same goals, right? She’s not just doing this for HER, she’s doing it for THEIR future.
Uh…maybe not right. After helping her out with some bills and a clunker car, Bob is reasserting his position as someone who doesn’t like to give other people money. And seeks validation on that front. Bob’s Gf is becomming dismayed by this “new?” attitude and wondering if Bob is in fact like that husband in “The Joy Luck Club”; and perhaps she made a mistake thinking they were on the same page as far as commitment to a future together.
Just an alternative scenario to the “Golddigger seeks Sugardaddy” one that has already been amply represented.
This is great and exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. Perhaps Bob isn’t investing in her as much as he should or as much as he first portrayed he was willing to do. We are only hearing one side of the story and he’s got a confirmation bias surely looking for evidence that he’s the “right” one in this matter. The issue that I have is that she (girlfriend) is “expectant” as tho it were owed to her. This would be akin to a man expecting sex. I personally would have gone about this differently and not EXPECTED BF to pay, but simply let him know how hard things were going for me financially and watched to see if he stepped up. If he didn’t this would give me clear indication of the type of person he was and I’d be asking if I wanted to be with this type of man any longer. I would prob then pull back myself, and when/if he asked what was wrong, I’d tell him how stressed I was with school/financial obligations. He can then choose to step up and help or he can choose not to, but it is then up to me to make a decision. Perhaps then I would call it quits or tell him I needed a break and start dating others. In this scenario, both parties are not being asked/expected to do anything, they are not putting expectations on another. Bob could then decide whether she was important enough to him to step up. In my opinion, if a man really loves a woman and can help financially to relieve her of her burdens then he will. This is best achieved via free choice and not bc of expectation or demand.
What if its the other way around though? No girl would give a penny to a guy.
That’s not necessarily true. In response to 42.1.1
My ex wife hit a hard patch when the economy in Europe tanked in 2012. I helped support her for about a year even when she wasn’t my wife at first, but she was very frugal and I didn’t have much to send because I had many of my own bills to pay. I trusted her fully and knew she wasn’t blowing it.
Later when I left my career making $55k to go to school for a new one, she helped me out. I now make $200+k per year. We ended up going our own ways, but the thing is that she was very trustworthy and showed no signs of gold digging.
If your partner likes you to or always asks you to buy her stuff, plus asks for money, alarm bells should be going off. My ex wife would be in shock if I wasted money, but I’ve had a partner that wanted extravagance. She was the pay to play type.
Right, but the decisions you make in life are your decisions. Her choices, her debt. Your scenario sounds like she has expectations of him that he is completely unaware of. Once again, I love the statement by someone else that it is easy to say you would do anything for someone, talk is cheap. Sure, she is getting the education for “THEIR” future, but it could just as easily be for her future alone since they aren’t married. So I think this goes along with the talk is cheap statement.
What stood out to me was “expects her man” part of the letter. I know we are only hearing Bob’s side and don’t get to hear hers but when I hear women use the phrase “my man” it is usually in the context of “my man had better be taking care of me” kind of thing – you know, with the attitude of “I’m all that and he better be down on his knees grateful to be my man”. I know – a lot to get from three little words. I’ve always found that attitude a litte repulsive and wonder what the guy found attractive.
The other thing that rubbed me the wrong way was his phrase of “enjoyed each other immensely”. Not enjoy spending time together, not love being in each others company, not have a great time together – sounds to me like his involvement in this “relationship” is strictly physical.
Just my thoughts.
Selena,
I don’t get why you are telling this scenario here.. :-/
I really like the way Selena presented her view of the possible scenario, and how it gives this whole conversation a more positive alternative to the story presented. Thanks for sharing it.
Mikko Kemppe´s last blog post…Do Men Just Want Sex? Should My Decision Be To Wait Or Not To Wait?
@ Honey:
I’ve always told people that a house is not an investment because no matter how much your home appreciates in value, if you wish to sell it you must move somewhere cheaper and/or smaller in order to realize any profit. Otherwise, to maintain the same standard of housing you are going to have to pay about the same amount as you sold your house for.
It sounds to me like Bob is tired of being considered the Bank of Bob. There’s no reason he should have any responsibility for her expenses. This woman has a mortgage . Didn’t she make any kind of plans for paying that before she quit her job to go back to school? Was the Bank of Bob her plan?
Perhaps she ought to get a roommate to help with the mortgage (see Evan’s other recent thread about dating the unemployed)…
Sorry, I disagree with Evan.
If you love someone, you help that person – if that person doesn’t repay, you get rid of that person cheaply, instead of spending my whole life on someone who is not dependable.
And I have put my mouth where my money is – I loaned some 2500 dollars to a friend couple of times.. he paid it back – if he hadn’t it would have hurt, but I was willing to risk it – because I trusted him. Even if it was my only savings, I still did that, and I didn’t regret it.
Likewise I expect a man I am with to help me – if he doesn’t, he can get out of my life since he just wants the good things that come with knowing me.
Money is just money, important only when you don’t have it.
I would say to the girl that “get rid of that scroodge, he is using you, he isn’t ever going to be there for you – and why would you trust him, if he isn’t there for you know either”
Thank you. Amen!
Some people are more irresponsible and seem to need more help than others. I would say lose that irresponsible person from your life. They can’t seem to manage without you and need you to act as a parent bailing them out financially all the time. We are talking about adults right?
@ Shalini #44
The scenario was an attempt to play “devil’s advocate”. Just that there *could* be another plausible reason behind Bob’s Gf thinking he should help her out besides plain ole’ greed.
If they had ever talked about a “future together” the woman may have made the mental/emotional leap that they were already partners in life. The error here might not be greed as much as communication, which has already been suggested.
Since we will never know these people, and it is highly unlikely we will ever hear “the other side” of the story – it leaves us free to speculate wildly. Wheee.
Honey said: (#23)
“the BF’s an attorney, so he has written a contract for any time I’ve lent him any money, always with a proposed repayment schedule for large amounts and a clause that says that he will repay in full immediately should I demand it.”
casualencountersblog replied (#25)
“That’s HYSTERICAL. I’d die laughing if anyone I cared about presented me with something like that when they needed money.”
Honey’s idea makes sense, especially since her boyfriend has been borrowing thousands of dollars from her. Even if they break up, she will be able to collect from him. Even if it’s a nasty breakup.
Bob hasn’t specified how much help his girlfriend needs each month. It could be $100 or $1,000. But she’s in graduate school, so she’ll probably need it every month for 2-3 years. That kind of money adds up fast. And unless it’s a loan with a written contract, he’s not likely to see a dime of it if they break up.
And if you’re keeping your significant other financially afloat, it’s easy to begin wondering whether that’s the primary reason they’re staying with you.
Honey’s idea makes sense.
@Kristyn #43
When I hear the phrase “My man” or “My woman” I think of old westerns. Lol.
This is what I would do if I were in Bob’s situation. I’d sit by myself first and decide whether I wanted to marry this woman. If the answer is no, then I would leave the relationship. If the answer is yes, then I would tell her I felt uncomfortable about giving so much money to someone who wasn’t family, and ask her if she would marry me. This is the most straightforward way of dealing with the problem. In any case, I would not give thousands of dollars (which is presumably what she wants, though Bob doesn’t say) to someone to whom I’m not related.
Because marriage cures all money problems. Take it from me, marriage makes it worse. Someone who is bad with money will always be so. They will drag you down like a sea anchor. Plus, when you are married, they are now entitled to half of what you have. God forbid you have kids with them, the costs only go up.
I can’t imagine being on either side of this scenario. I would need to be married to someone before agreeing to help fund their education. In fact, when my ex and I were talking about getting married, I told him that I would help cover the bills if he wanted to go to grad school full time. But if we weren’t married? No way. And I would never expect to expect a guy I was dating or in a relationship with to do that for me. That’s what family is for.
I would be sympathetic to her if this was due to some sort of emergency, but without knowing details it really just sounds like poor planning on her part.
The way I see it, is that relationships are confusing enough without trying new or unconventional ways of doing things. I think that if a single woman needs money and she cannot make more or spend less, then she has to go the conventional route and borrow from the parents or from the banks.
Evan is totally right — don’t ever bail someone out unless you plan on being a de facto crutch – it’s not that you mean for it to happen, it just does. No matter the reasons — we are all adults and capable of making choices and decisions — this girl could have chosen to sell her condo or whatever before going back to school since money would be tight — instead she relied on someone else. Just my two cents — and trust me, I’ve been there. It’s never good — never never never. No matter the circumstance. You can’t guess at someone’s motivations — just don’t bail them out.
Having this problem come up 9mos. into the relationship can be looked upon as an opportunity: to evaluate what each of their expectations are regarding money management and partnership. They may have completely different models and “styles” when it comes to saving, spending, who should pay for what, and financial goals.
Better to explore that while dating and see if they are compatible in that area, than to just assume they will be after deciding to live together.
I have a problem with the 9 months. Is that really long enough to develop a completely trusting relatiOnship? Seems to me that they are in the beginning of a relationship, unless they have been friends for several years before becoming an intimate couple. She would have more to prove to me before I lay out the cash. There are several levels of the relationship that must develop and that can’t be done n 9 months. So I can see his apprehension.
If Bob has to write to EMK about this….Bob’s girlfriend, must have large breasts, and/or, she is good in bed. Bob, if I left her, I would have withdrawal symptoms also.
Dear Guys and Gals,
Thanks for your responses. In answers to some of your comments:
1) She’d like us to get married. I got burned in a divorce several years ago and am not currently in the marrying mood. I am interested in a LTR, though.
2) She budgeted for her 18 months of schooling and her living expenses, and all was going well until her car died. Without a car, she lost almost 3 weeks of work. Since she had no savings, the lost paychecks and the need for money to buy a car was more than she could handle.
3) I suggested that she abandon her house or get a roommate, but she refused. She hated to lose what little equity she had in her house, hated the thought of having to move with her 3 kids, and was uncomfortable with a stranger living in her house with her kids (and the family barely has enough room as it is).
4) At the time she asked for this money, we’d not slept together for almost 2 months. She’s a religious woman, and she began to feel guilty about having sex outside of marriage.
5) I sent the question to Evan about 6 weeks ago. Since that time (and obviously before I could read his and your answers) I loaned her $1500 to get caught up on her mortgage and other bills. I will be giving her no more money, and she knows it.
Thank you all.
Bob
Hunter: Your idea occurred to me, too. Back when I was asking the question about where the sense of entitlement came from, that his $$ was hers, only 9 months in, and his talking about enjoying the relationship but not expressing any deep feeling for her. Somehow she has the idea that he’s going to give her the money. Why would he be buying into that for even the time it takes to write his question?
And why would she be thinking she can get away with it? Because she can. (To borrow EMK’s phrase from another context.)
Married women struggle with guilt issues also.
For some women, an LTR, is, three months long.
@Bob #57- thanks for writing in with more details!
***Applause**** for Evan’s response. I like money as much as the next girl, probably more so. haha. Sorry, part of my academic background is in finance, so I live and breath investment bankers. Well, that aside… IF Bob had wanted a sugar daddy relationship, he could have gotten one at the start. And if the woman is seeking to turn it into one, she can state her demands, and Bob counter with his own requirements. I can totally roll with that because I can be as superficial as hell. What’s NOT appropriate in my opinion is for a woman to be sooooo misguided, deluded, and assine, as to turn a relationship which she maintains is based on trust and love, and then guilt trip the guy into giving her money.
She says she would do anything for you if you were in trouble. By anything, she obviously didn’t mean making enough sacrifices to make sure her own sh*t was together enough in the first place. No one is entitled to an advanced degree, and I bet she isn’t going for her MBA or law degree, but rather some self-indulgent crap. Bob you make 100k’s, I bet you had to slave for years, if not a decade, to gear up you own earning potential. That if anything, should be saved up for your own future, and your own future family, not some over-entitled, out-of-touch, guilt-inducing shrew.
@girl-with-glasses, post #61.
Please don’t hold back, let us know how you really feel :-).
I have to write that I have been finding most (not all) of the responses from the women in this thread to be refreshing.
My answer to Bob’s question is a very simple one and it doesn’t involve speculating about the character, intention or financial responsibility (or lack thereof, according to most people on this blog) of a woman and a situation about which we know very little. Give money — don’t lend it — give money to people you really and truly want to help. Only give as much and as frequently as feels right to you. If for whatever reason, you don’t want to give them money, don’t. It’s that simple.
Since this woman wants to get married and Bob doesn’t…I wonder how they will work that out?
That begs the question(s): did she want to get married before the financial crisis that precipitated Bob’s letter? That is, does she want to marry Bob, or the Bank of Bob?
“..the RIGHT woman doesn’t WANT you to bail her out. The right woman wouldn’t ASK you to subsidize her education and strain your finances.”
Amen!
It’s one thing if a guy treats on the first date becasue he likes the girl and WANTS to pay. It’s another if he’s paying her tuition at her request. And they’ve only been dating for 9 MONTHS!!
I would never dream of asking a guy to subsidize my motgage. Ok, maybe after we’re living together/married, but c’mon.
Being asked for money early on in a relationship like this is a red flag. Men or women (yep, I’ve known women who’ve lent guys money, only to have them blow it on stupid stuff and run off).
Bob, thanks for the update.
As with anyone who writes a letter to a blog, the ‘main theme’ overtakes the real issue. In other words, this isn’t about the real “Bob”.
It sounds like you’re handling the situation, but the money thing raises a good point about relationships and trust.
<>
Can’t help but wonder if this changed after she got the money…
I see the words “borrow” and “lend” (or “loan”) a lot in this thread, only she is not borrowing the money, nor is she asking him to lend her some.
If a man is in love with me, and he is very comfortable while I am struggling, I’d expect him to foot the bill for certain things, too (like, vacations).
And, quite frankly, the better off he is financially, the more I’d expect (again, IF I myself am struggling).
Because he doesn’t have to be with me specifically, but chooses to, and because that’s my general idea of generosity and magnanimity (not to mention, love).
Only nowhere does Bob say that he loves her.
Well, there you go, that is your answer.
Also, the fact that Evan’s response is equivocal, doesn’t exactly give it power. If she is the one, then all bets are off, and if not, then there are all these rules to follow. Granted, I cannot believe someone would count on their SO like this only 9 months into a relationship, but I feel that one can’t use expressions like “gold digger” or “sugar daddy” if apparently the standard is not the same for every situation.
4) At the time she asked for this money, we’d not slept together for almost 2 months. She’s a religious woman, and she began to feel guilty about having sex outside of marriage.
Can’t help but wonder if this changed after she got the money…
All that drama was for measly 1500 dollars?
Like I said, I have loaned people money – in a situation where I was giving my last savings – if they have been important enough for me. If money is more important, then I just don’t.
I think that I am worth more than money, and I sure as hell wouldn’t have ANY sex with a person to whom I couldn’t loan a a few hundreds to a couple of thousands of my savings. I put my mouth where my money is.
I have to say, I wouldn’t date Bob – why would I give a piece of myself to someone to whom money that he has no shortage of are more important than helping someone who he says he cares – and someone who is working for their common future.
No wonder I am single, and I like to remain that way. If I can’t trust a man as a person, I don’t want to be intimate with him either.
(And no, I haven’t loaned money from men, but I have loaned money TO men, and I got it back too. I credit it to fact that I do know how to judge people and I am seldom disappointed. Only when I haven’t listened my own judgement and listened what “others” think – then it has been the time, when I have got negative results.)
“Madam, we have already established what you are; now we are simply negotiating the price.”
–Winston Churchill
Bob,
Sounds like the relationship was winding down anyway.
She no longer wants to have sex outside of marriage and you aren’t interested in marriage, right now, or with her or whatever…..
I think giving her the $1500 was a kind and generous thing to do for someone you obviously care for and have been with for many months, but to continue to ‘help’ her out financially when the two of you don’t seem to be headed for marriage seems pointless and a bad idea. You’d resent it, she’d continue to expect it or view it as the two of you are more committed than you are.
Maybe her cutting off sex and asking you to help her were little tests to see how much you truly care about this relationship?
Friends, family, lovers help each other out with money all the time and that is fine, but when it becomes expected (which she seemed to feel) it’s rude.
Response to Joe #73:
Really? Sounds to me like somebody wasn’t getting the proverbial milk “for free” as they had hoped.
While we focus a lot on sex and money on this blog perhaps there were other things that were happening in the relationship that made Bob’s lady feel the relationship was more committed. For example, was she cooking for him on a regular basis? Was she doing his laundry, running errands for him, taking care of him when he was sick, helping him host gatherings for business associates, friends, and family? There are a number of things that she could have been doing for him — not just sex — that suggested to her they were quite serious. Why must we always assume that everybody is out to get something for nothing.
Another thought I had: a single mother of three would never make such a drastic decision if she didn’t think she had a shoulder to lean on.
I really feel for her, actually. She is now in this awful unsustainable situation because of poorly communicated expectations of the extent of this relationship.
Btw, speaking of expectations: a lot of people on this board mentioned discussing financial expectations upfront, but really, is that something anyone discusses before marriage or at least cohabitation? I personally would think it premature.
I agree. I’m a struggling single mom of 2. My ex husband isn’t financially supportive nor is he physically around to help. I don’t have any family to help either. I think the gentleman who posed the initial question came off callous and insensitive as a human.
LOL, how the heck would she have time to do any of those things for him when they, a) weren’t living together, b) she was going to school full-time, and c) she had three kids she was already taking care of?
I had a similar situation with an ex-girlfriend, but to a much smaller scale.
We were both young, and she found out that her roommate was ripping her off for $50 per month by lying about the rent. She felt betrayed and angry, and wanted to move into her own apartment immediately. She had not planned on moving, and as such, had not saved any money for a move. So, asked me to lend her $2800 to help fund the move. I probably could’ve afforded this amount without repayment, but the whole idea made me very uncomfortable. I understood that she felt hurt and betrayed by her roommate, but I didn’t believe the $50 per month (which was rectified through a conversation with the roommate) was worth her proposed radical change in living arrangements. Her new apartment, even after the initial $2800, would’ve have put us both (if we continued working as a financial team ) in a situation that could’ve dragged us under financially. My position was that it was more responsible to stay in the apartment with the roommate until we could save enough money for her to move (I calculated 3 4 moths would’ve been enough time). She disagreed and we separated over this issue because she claimed I was not willing to support her decisions.
My point is that this type of situation is not really a financial issue at all. It’s really an issue about the stability, responsibility, and maturity of any person in their life planning (financial and otherwise). In Bob’s case, a stable and responsible (financially and otherwise) person would have lined up all their financial ducks prior to going back to school. He/she would have made a prediction of finances and dawn up some contingency plans in case things didn’t go according to plan. If that person thought that they might need to borrow money from their partner, he/she should’ve consulted that person prior to beginning the endeavor. That way the the expectations would’ve been defined and agreed to.
In my opinion, the real problem with bob’s girlfriend (no matter what their level of involvement) is that she is not a very “together” person who is responsible in her life planning. In my experience, this type of person will continue to have problems related to poor life planning and personal responsibility for years to come. Bob, I think it’s time to cut the cord. Her poor life planning might sink you both financially in the future. I cut the cord on my ex and I’ve heard that my ex-girlfriend is back at home in New York living with her parents. I might ve been there too if I didn’t realize the dangers.
@Shawn #79
I don’t think it is fair to categorize such women as “immature”. Women are often raised, still, with different expectations. Men are still expected to take care of themselves and often take care of others. Many women, while functioning as liberated independent adults still have the expectation of a financial fallback card from their SOs.
Thankfully, there are many women who have moved passed this and like you I would not want to date the other type.
When she asks for $1.29 so that she can get a $20 dollar note instead of a handful of change at the supermarket , it’s cool.
When she asks you to pay HER bills : not ok . Ever.
They are not your joint assests and it is not your responsibility unless it’s a situation where she’s really broke and studying and you work all the time late and live over an hour away and she always comes to meet you so you aren’t inconvenienced . Then she may be almost entitled to ask for a bit of fuel money to get her through the week as she’s been putting in a lot of effort .
If not , ditch her fast. I’m a 19 year old young woman and even at my age I know it is wrong and I would never feel entitled to any damn thing that isn’t mine.
She’s a LEECH ! If you let women like that in they will suck you dry.
That is exactly right Donna.
I too aspire to be completely financially independent . Not a parasite on the backs of others. It is not ok .
If you can’t afford something , then you shouldn’t have taken the damn thing in the first place . That is absolutely ridiculous for any intelligent person to do . If she doesn’t have two children who need to be provided with some living quarters of their own than why on earth is she trying to hold onto a property she can’t afford ?
It may sound extreme , but I would rather end my life then be a drain on people who care and the community .
But that is my personal take on things.
This is an interesting thread. I found my way here because I’ve been trying to work my way through a not-so-different conundrum.
Last fall I had been dating a man I adored for several months, but the relationship was in trouble because he was going through some major financial troubles. He had invested heavily in his business right before the economy tanked, and now his world was crumbling — no income, big mortgage, kids and ex-wife to support, etc.
He came to me as a last resort and borrowed a sizable chunk of $$$ — about what I earn in 7 weeks, after taxes. (I am very responsible with money and earn a good living.)
The similarity I see in this situation is the obligation we feel (whether or not we act on it) to help someone we care about, especially when it would be otherwise devastating for them without their help.
Of course, in my case, we are now broken up. He has filed for bankruptcy and says he intends to pay me back, but I don’t see him acting on it. He has no legal obligation, only a moral one.
Bottom line, when someone you are not committed to in some way asks to borrow money, it’s just a no-win situation. In hindsight, I never would make that decision again, certainly without some sort of commitment from him. (But would marriage with this man have been a good idea?) I did, however, enable him to rebuild his career and keep a roof over his children’s heads, so I guess I earned a few kharma points.
This is a really great topic and makes me think of a situation I was in with my boyfriend recently. We’ve been dating for 3 years now and the situation is reversed. I work full time, earn a good income, and he’s in university working just part time.
Earlier in the year we had planned to go on a vacation to Mexico right after Christmas and both said we’d save for it starting before summer.
November came and he didn’t have the money. In addition to this, he decided to quit his summer job 3 weeks early because he didn’t like it earlier on the year.
He outright told me that I would have to pay for half his trip to go. He had mentioned earlier I may have to *help* him out, but failed to mention it would be half…I had figured a couple hundred bucks, not that I’d be in for a $3000 trip for the both of us.
I was uncertain and he then told me that I needed to decide or he was going to cancel me out of his holiday plans and do something cheaper with his buddies instead.
….I was pretty taken aback by that.
To me this is a huge red flag in our relationship and the way he handles money along with his expectations and it’s been troubling me since then. He refuses to talk about money however as to him, it’s not something that needs to be discussed in a relationship.
I disagree.
So now my question is whether or not this should be a complete deal breaker for me and I should end over something like this?
Shannon, #84
I’d end it with the moocher. Not because he makes less money, but because he clearly won’t do the very least to work towards a shared goal (that you both agreed upon) and actually gave you that ultimatum – that unless you’d fund the whole trip, he’d spend the holiday with his buddies!
A guy worth keeping would have kept his summer job and/or suggested a less expensive vacation for the two of you, one where he could contribute something. It sounds like he sees you as a meal ticket. His refusal to discuss finances should be a huge red flag!
He sounds very immature but YOU are the one putting up with it! How did you think he would contribute towards the trip when he quit his job three weeks early? Are you planning to pay off his school loans too? Why have you stayed with this guy for three years? Does he contribute in other ways? Do kind things? Take care of you when you’re sick? Cook dinner? Run you a bath after a hard day at work? Make you laugh? Great sex, at least?
Sometimes women (or men) stay with a partner because they’ve put in that investment of time and energy (and money) while the other person is struggling with school or depression or other issues. And they think that surely that big change is right around the corner, that this person will become what they want. So they wait, and wait. And then another three years pass. And suddenly they’ve been with someone for 15 years and nothing has changed and they’re very unhappy.
People can change, but only when they want to. Doesn’t sound like your BF wants to.
#84 & 85
Ditto on Cat’s reponse, excellent questions to ask. Then come up with HONEST answers and listen to your intuition and act accordingly–even if it ends up be difficult action.
Thanks for both of your replies. For the last year I’ve been really questioning things and what you mentioned in the second paragraph – staying for the time investment/comfort level is really where I think I’m at.
Earlier things didn’t bother me as much as we generally had fun and I was concentrating on my career so my real focus was elsewhere. But now I’m 27 (he’s 23) and am just seeing large red flags pop up and differences between us that I don’t think are going to make it work.
As for the questions, sadly, it’s no to many. Sex is a huge issue with us (I’ve never been satisfied – earlier on satisfying us was enough). I do have a lot of fun with him when things are good, but it’s been a VERY rocky relationship to say the least and despite my mind knowing that I should have ended it a long time ago I haven’t been able to do it. I think this whole financial thing though is what’s really opening my eyes and getting me seeing all the other issues more clearly.
#87 Shannon
Sounds you came here Shannon to get an outsider’s opinion on what you already know in your heart and gut. 🙁 Not every relationship we have is meant to be ‘it’, as a matter of fact, I believe it’s difficult, but NOT impossible, to find that person who makes us feel ‘all that’–so we have to go through experiences to put us in the position for Mr. Right to be in our lives. 🙂
If I were in your shoes, this is what I would be thinking:
1. I just spent three years with this man. I would know by now if he’s ‘the one’. What does my intuition say?
2. What have I learned from this relationship? What can I take away from it that will benefit me in the future?
3. If I muster the courage and do the right thing now (even though it may be uncomfortable), it’s that much sooner that I can work on getting over this relationship, while working on myself, so I can be ready for the next man that I get involved with. The longer I wait, the longer it is to start the healing process.
Good luck Shannon! You sound like a contemplative, aware young woman, that will serve you well.
Thanks for the response back. You definitely raise some good points and it is where I’m at right now. I’m so bad with break-ups; in the past I’ve run from relationships for fear of it getting so serious and having to face a break-up, but now I’m not sure I have a choice.
Earlier on our ‘issues’ were minor in nature and not what I’d consider to be red-flags, but lately more and more are just showing up that I can’t ignore.
You’re right in everything you said though. Now I just need to take action…easier said then done sometimes. Thanks for the good luck!
#89
Shannon, NO ONE is good with breakups! 🙂 It SUCKS! Just saying to someone have a few dates that you’re not feeling it, SUCKS!
Breaking up is ABSOLUTELY easier to say than to do.
That’s what having courage is all about though, doing the right thing even though we know it’s difficult/painful. Only by doing courage do we grow. Once you have some distance, you can really focus on the relationship and what you learned from it, make it as positive as possible. This is just a step in your life.
You’re setting yourself, AND HIM, free to find others who are much better matches for each of you.
Hi bob , or
I read ur message and response and I just have to say don’t let these knuckleheads worry you. Reading ur first letter and the response tells me that this is a lady who is in love with you. And u know what.. I think ur in love with her too but just not ready to settle down yet.
personally I can’t help but wonder why so many people are greedy these days.. if u have the money its not a big deal for you and u love her then not a problem. I mean men buy presents like a louis bag for much more then $1500 for a women they care about.
I think obviously she respects that u won’t do more for her in terms of lending but please do show that u care by buying little gifts and surprises for her. It is after all romantic. And I am sure that if u look hard she is giving u little gestures of love too.
@ 91 Kat
Regardless of love and what other men give their significant others.
If both men and women are equal then they should be equally responsible for themselves. If borrowing and depending on a gf financially is viewed negatively then it would bad for a women to do so; since we are equal
I think that not lending or giving money to bail out people is the best thing you can do for them. Parents do it, hell everyone does it.
I think what Bob should just simply do is pace himself a bit in lending her so much money. He can help her but at the same time he has to help himself as well. It should be done seldom if she just a girlfriend not anywhere close to being engaged. Yes it true a woman do come first but that’s if you live together (which is not really recommended), dating over a certain period of time, or married.It’s good for a man to make sacrifices for woman but he should not give up totally everything for her and that goes for both sex, men and women.
Dont let love blind you into a bad descision. Never invest in some financially that you aren’t fully committed to in the long-term ie marriage. I know several friends that gave money and cosigned loans to their ex’s and it bit them for years long after the relationship ended. Screwed up FICO and creditors beating on their doors because their EXs couldnt pay the $$ they owed.
I think the last comment by Andy summed it up. I also think Evan made some assumptions after reading the letter that I don’t believe he should have made (since we don’t have the other side of the story – which is most often the case). However, there are a few possibilities here. Nine months is a very short time for someone to expect a partner to help them financially, unless they are engaged or close to it. If that isn’t so, it is presumptuous for the woman to expect him to pay her bills. That being said, if this man lead her to believe that he wanted to marry her, I think it becomes a bit more complicated. If they have a high level of committment, they should have discussed her choice to go back to school and the resulting financial hardship.
It just very simply depends on the level of committment and that is unclear here. In my opinion, I think if two people are deeply committed to each other, then they would want to help the other out when possible. In my case, I’m a divorced mother of two struggling to make ends meet. My boyfriend of 5 years (who has said he wants to marry me) does not believe in helping me pay bills occasionally even though he spends thousands of dollars on himself, has a new sports car and spends hundreds of dollars on video game points every month. Needless to say, I’m re-thinking this relationship. It always amazes me that people have no problem exchanging bodily fluids with each other in the name of love but seem to have big probems being “financally intimate”!!!!!!!LOL
P.S. (@ Jester) Jester, men and women are equal but incomes rarely are. I think, absolutely, that it should work both ways. If two people are financially responsible but the woman makes more than the man, then SHE should contribute more. I agree, today there IS a double standard in this area. But again, all of this should be discussed BEFORE committing to someone so that everyone is on the “same page”. Disagreements about money and how it should be divided and/or spent are at the root of many breakups and divorces.
Another P.S.! To Bob: I missed your addendum fo your original letter which I found in the middle of the comments. You were very honest and kudos to you for that! Now that I have more of the details the situation becomes crystal clear. You are not ready for a committment and your partner wants marriage. She also has 3 children and wants a husband and step-father. You mentioned that you’d been “burned” in your divorce; another reason why you’re simply not ready. My advice is to let this relationship go so you can find someone who wants a more casual relationship. And please set your girlfriend free so she can find that husband! Thank you for your honesty as it has helped me better understand my own relationship. He’s simply not ready and it would be better for me to move on.
It really saddens me to read some of these comments. This woman doesn’t sound like a gold digger; just someone who is trying to better her life, happened to hit hard times and also has 3 children to take care of!
It seems a lot of the comments here were made before Bob inserted the additional details regarding this situation (e.g. his girlfriend HAD budgeted for school but her car unexpectedly “died”, she has 3 children who she doesn’t want to uproot from their home, etc….). The “devil is in the details” as they say. Bob simply isn’t interested in or committed enough to this woman as a potential wife and doesn’t want the financial hassle. That is his right. However, he should be upfront with her or even better, in my book, just let her go and date women casually, as said above.
Here’s my opinion, though……most of us wouldn’t hesitate to help someone or take care of them if that person was sick. Why is it always a big deal when it comes to money? As someone said above, if you really love someone, money is just money. You sure as heck can’t take it with you when you die!
Helping someone in their time of need should be no big deal if you can do it – that is, IF you really DO care for the other. It seems it’s a dog-eat-dog world and whoever has the most money wins. The heck with doing a nice and honorable thing, right?
I don’t care if you’re a man OR a woman – helping someone in need is a selfless and beautiful thing to see. You can’t put a price on love. Well, according to a lot of people on this site………I guess you can. What a shame.
Summary of the comment posted here :
1) Love means you should do anything, absolutely anything for the one you love (only women took this position – not surprisingly)
2) Love means never putting your loved one in an awkward position or feel pressured or guilted into a decision they may not be fully comfortable with (both men and women said this)
3) There is no such thing as love, only people using each other
4) We need to do what we need to do for our loved ones, but is she a loved one ?
How about another take on this situation ? I don’t know what the law is in the US, but in some Anglo countries (Australia for example, where I live). supporting a “partner” (usually a woman) over a certain period of time puts you in a legal position where you may need to continue supporting her even after a break-up. It is like marriage without actually getting married legally. Especially if the two of you lived together. Even if you didn’t, the other party (usually the woman) can argue that you have made her dependent on you and as a result, she has a legal right to continue to be dependent on you. Good to know what you moral position is, but equally to know what your legal position is.
When this woman made the conscious decision to go back to school… provisions should have been in place for this. I find myself in a bad situation with my girlfriend. Been dating a year but not living together as she is going through an ugly divorce including property settlement. She is paying the mortgage and paying rent on a apartment. She lives with her deadbeat 22 yr old son. She has a good job but is struggling financially and I have helped her tremendously in material and monetary ways… so much so she is now very frequently asking for money… sometimes says borrow. I bought this woman a car only a few months into the relationship cause she didn’t have one and it’s snowballed from there. Now she asks to “borrow” $2000 like it she was asking for $20. I am not made of money and am sacrificing my own well being to help her. When and if I say no to the borrowing.. The world comes to an end and she guilts me by saying I don’t love and support her and makes me feel worthless. I am now insecure because I feel she will leave if I don’t give in to her demands. You struggle to have any self worth when someone does this to you. Who do I blame? MYSELF. And only I can change it and I need to follow this advice I am giving to the first guy…. Get out of that mess. She is making you financially responsible for her bad decisions. Now I just need to do this for myself. : (
Usually girls ask for handout are being denied. But there are always exceptions. If she is hot, you consider the cash you give as entertainment cost.
Whatever you do, don’t let her trick you into getting her pregnant! I had a girlfriend that had started trying to have unprotected sex with me after she got burnt out on working a part time job. When we first got together, she would always put the condom on, but after she started “borrowing” money from me, she started trying to screw me raw! I started flushing my condoms in the toilet after sex because I was afraid that she was trying to get pregnant with them! Turns out she was a psycho, but she was the sexiest girl I have ever been with in my life, sadly even sexier than my current wife…….
What if she had been seeing this guy for over four years? What if they were planning a future together? What if she unexpectedly lost her job? What if her guy worked out of state nine months a year and then stayed at her home three months a year? She visited him, at her expense and piled up miles on her vehicle? What if she had lots of equity in her home but couldn’t immediately sell because the home needed some repairs that, now being unemployed, she couldn’t afford nor get a loan for?
@Jenny #98
“his girlfriend HAD budgeted for school but her car unexpectedly “died”, she has 3 children who she doesn’t want to uproot from their home, etc….)”
Sorry, she didn’t budget for ANYTHING. Yea, she budgeted for basic expenses and the cost of school, but she didn’t budget for EMERGENCIES.
This woman has THREE children, and she chose to take on that much risk? (Budget only enough to get through 18 months).
“She had no savings” Sorry – that’s irresponsible, especially if you’re going to put yourself into a higher-risk situation than your current one. The responsible thing to have done was take the money that was to be used for school and put it in savings as an emergency fund, THEN start saving for school.
Let’s look at that a little bit- her car died and she couldn’t afford to do anything about it. We’re lacking a LOT of details on this, but even if we knew all of them it really doesn’t matter – it comes down to lack of planning, or lack of assessing risk.What if some other kind of emergency cropped up-say an injury where she suddenly couldn’t care for the kids and had to pay for them to be taken care of for a while? Or the house caught fire? These things happen every day, and are what our grandparents would’ve called “rainy days”. She didn’t save for one.
She let an emotional attachment (“not uproot kids from home”) override a basic financial math problem. Dumb. The house is far less important than your financial stability – i.e. the ability to EAT EVERY DAY, or drive to work to make more money so you can eat and put clothes on your kids.
“Why is it always a big deal when it comes to money?”
I’m gonna get crucified for this, but I’m going to say it and anger a lot of women anyway, because it needs saying: Many women often say this kind of nonsense because they haven’t had to spend their entire lives knowing that the ONLY PERSON they would ever be able to rely on is themselves, and that they would have to support themselves and care for the family around them. Yea, it’s been changing for the last 40 years, but men are still expected to be self-reliant, AND support others, far more so than the expectation for women. Just look at the house-husband ratios, and even the number of comments over on “Do you Expect Him to Make More Than You?”. The plain reality is that boys learn at 5 years old that only they will be the ones supporting themselves. So yea, when it comes to money (my personal security), I’m pretty damn protective.
Money = security, and this woman is assuming she has a right to the security that Bob has probably worked long and hard to establish, and even had the audacity to ask for financial support with an expectation that he owed her that. Crap – I’ve asked friends of 30+ years for money with an expectation that their going to do what THEY deem right.
Sorry-they aren’t married/cohabitating, or have an agreement (i.e. a plan for the future together), he owes her nothing. Now, had he offered money because he wanted to help, that’s different.
Bob’s culpability in this is letting the situation develop without ensuring expectations were clearly defined. I’m assuming that the discussions around her going back to school didn’t really include him agreeing to (or not agreeing to) financially supporting her effort. It was probably ambiguous, and both assumed what that would look like. As others have already pointed out – incomplete expectation management.
Good one Evan!
I have to say I would never ask for financial support in a 9 month relationship. My dad drummed it into me from the time I was a little girl that I should always be able to stand on my own two feet financially, whether I was married or single, and I really think this is good advice for women, and for everyone. Make your own plans financially, any help that your significant other is prepared to provide is a bonus. Don’t make it about whether or not they love you, make it about your ability to be a responsible adult and take good care of yourself.
Having said that, I think your attitudes about money, like every other aspect of the relationship, have to be in sync. If you *expect* a certain level of financial help or support, he has to be *willing* to provide it, you can’t try to guilt or force him into it.
Speaking for myself though, I always do my level best to see to myself and never ask anyone for anything, but I am more comfortable in a relationship with a man where there is something of an attitude of giving, in other words we would both offer to help each other if we saw the other struggling.
If you have made the unilateral decision to go back to school and make your situation financially harder on yourself, then sorry, that is your burden to carry, and I think you need to make your peace with that before you do it, and not try to shift it onto your boyfriend in any way.
Completely agree with Clare @105. Not sure where this sense of entitlement comes from. NINE months of dating and EXPECTING financial support???
Being a responsible adult means having the ability to support oneself. It means spending less than you earn. It means not expecting someone to take care of you and rescue you from unreasonnable financial management.
I would never expect any kind of financial support in a dating relationship or even a marriage, and would never put myself in a tricky financial situation, expecting the partner to bail me. Since the age of 22, I’ve been completely self-reliant, through some LTRs and in singlehood. I make wise financial decisions and take full responsability of their outcome.
The only situation I can think of where my partner would be supporting me financially is if we decided to have kids. Since I would be attached in raising them at home through the first few years of their lives, he would then support us financially while I work full-time towards the well-being of our family. Later on I would go back to the workforce to resume my financial contributions. And yet, this is not an expectation, but a desire that has been expressed, discussed, and agreed upon together.
After reading Bob’s update, he just sounds uber stingy to me. He ended up loaning her money, not giving it. It is clear that he just wants something casual. What did you think would happen when you decided to commit to a woman that has three kids? Surely you figured that she wanted things to lead to marriage. That ultimately means she would want a partner that would help her out in her time of need.
Lisa,
I am in the situation that you described, my girlfriend and I have a child together, she has two children from a previous relationship, I have 1 from a previous relationship. We do not live together, but I made a loan for her (under $120), and a fee of $20 gets taken out of my check each pay period until I pay the balance off . The fee has added up to $300 and I asked her about when she would pay back the loan. Needless to say she became upset, said some things that upset me and asked me to leave her house. I am fully committed to her, but at what point do I say enough is enough! $300 for a $100 loan, that is $400!
Your gf and you have a CHILD together, yet you are nickel and diming her over a “loan” of $100??
And why is there a fee deducted from your paycheck for this???
None of this makes any sense. And I cannot agree with your gf’s decision strongly enough.
Looks like he got taken.
So Lisa, would you be willing to donate $12000 per year to a guy you were dating?
Well, after dating for 9 months, I would feel that we are on our way to marriage. After 9 months, you are not just dating. Donating 12k to my boyfriend just to donate 12k would never make any sense to me. If he is struggling financially and we consider ourselves partners, I would be willing to support him financially. I would expect the same from him. Bob’s girlfriend isnt trying to get Gucci purses and Chanel dresses. She just wants a bit of support so that she can pursue school. Her program is less than 18 months..surely he could willingly pay a few months of the mortgage until she could secure more work or apply for an education loan. Instead, he tells her she needs to pack up her and her three children and get roommates, who are strangers. What a jerk! Bob said he makes over 100k…he could afford to bend a little to make sure she is ok. Instead he LOANs her money. And then tells her don’t expect anything else from him. Honestly, he does not sound like a caring person.
But, I think the bottom line is that Bob just wants to have fun, carefree relationships with no real responsibilities. Which is fine..but he choose to commit to a single mom with three kids.
Bob
draw the line now. A few groceries, meals, days out is fine but subsidising her return to college is not. Thats a luxury few of us can afford. Sure, if you were married and made the decision together, go right ahead. but not while still dating.
and love isn’t doing any thing for the other person. Thats what will get you on judge judy though.
OK heres an up to date, November 2012 experience on this scenario. I have just quit a 7 month relationship. I am 46 and can stand on my own two feet, she was a 34 year old, still house sharing, no work, no income, waiting on unemployment hand outs and with a very troubled up bringing, which meant she hadnt seen her mum for 16 years.
SIX weeks into the relationship she asks to borrow 600 euros, yes SIX weeks in…I am a kind guy, i understand what money problems are and what it means to be helped. I lend her some money but not the amount she had asked for.
I paid for everything, her English classes, her books, her cosmetics, paid of course for lunch and dinner, cooked lunch or dinner….we didnt live together…
Well just a couple of weeks ago we had some issues and on the day she wanted to repair and make up was the same day she asked me for….250 euros…….and in the same month that i had already paid her classes, books, cosmetics and perfume….
So i quit, it wasnt just that, she was no being as nice or as loving as i expected and clearly didnt demonstrate the love and cherish that i demonstrated to her….
When I told her it was over, I also told her that she didnt have to pay me back the 150 from May…well she lost it with me and verbally abused me for 20 mins……..nice……
I actually didnt mind taking care of stuff but i started to think that she was taking the piss when i felt unloved, disrespected and other things that i wouldnt expect to see, when i was doing all i could for HER…
So there ya go…..there are some people in this world, who really dont deserve the love and care they receive….
rob I feel where you’re coming from. Just alot worse in with $$$ . You think they would treat us better for all the help we gave from our hearts. Its got so bad the only word that describes it is exploited. They know how to ask, when to act really sweet. Then you’re forgotten, up till the point of next months hard times. Been in denial for way to long, time to cut our losses and learn the hardest of ways.. they just broke your heart and left you with empty pockets.
I don’t understand how someone can call oneself a man if he is not noble enough to help his woman if she is in struggle and want to pursue her dream and study another degree. Have you, man readers ever thought how much money woman need to spend every month for clothes, make up, looking good for YOU man!
Being a woman is much more expensive than being a man!And expenses are considerably higher.
Also by nature woman already has too many responsibilities and man have to contribute in some way.Its a woman who give birth! its a woman who have period and mood swings because of hormones.Its a woman who has to do pedicure and get her hair done every month!!!
and if a man being so pathetically greedy of not wanting to take care of a woman, he is not a man , but just a jerk!!!
Wow, @Natasha 114. I cannot disagree with you, more! If anything, I wonder how someone can call herself “a woman” and not “a hooker” if she’s asking for financial support from a man.
In the end, it doesn’t much matter what you & I think, though. It’s whether Bob feels comfortable with it; he doesn’t. These two are not married and not even engaged! And even if they were, I would beware of the precedents set early in the marriage and try to figure out my own boundaries regarding finances.
I have a close friend – a wealthy FEMALE who has inherited several million $ that her parents and grandparents worked hard to earn. She bought her family a large house and pays for her kids to be educated in top schools but, besides those huge expenses, she lives simply (some of you female readers would probably accuse her of being, gasp, CHEAP) The family drives a Honda; flies Economy class; dresses almost exclusively in GAP and Old Navy; gets coiffed at SuperCuts, etc.
But her husband keeps asking her for money. He bought a piece of “investment property” when he still had a high-paying job and now that he earns much less, he asked her to cover the mortgage and taxes. My friend did so without flinching. Then, he asked her to help support a new business venture that he & his friends were starting. She looked at the business plan and wasn’t too impressed but figured that it was her job as the wife to help him achieve his dreams so “invested,” knowing she’d most likely never see that six-figure sum ever again. Then, he asked her to pay for a major renovation of his income property. She refused and he took the money from their joint account, anyway. He believes that “what’s hers is theirs,” and assures her that if he were in her financial position, he’d share all his money with her.
So my friend received a windfall in the form of inheritance and her husband seems to think its his right to use much of it. Is this fair? Some of you might say so. I don’t, and more importantly, my friend doesn’t and in fact she is scared. She talked to a family lawyer who explained that since she’s been pretty much supporting the husband’s lifestyle and entrepreneurial dreams for so long, if they divorced she’d have to continue to “shell out.” The alimony system that has helped so many women take their exes to the bank works just as well for men, you know.
Overall, be very clear both in your own head and to your romantic partners (& friends) what your financial expectations and boundaries are! I think it’s kinda hilarious how many men marry and then are shocked – SHOCKED – that their wives expect them to cover all expenses. Were you so busy planning the wedding and enjoying new-relationship-sex that you forgot to discuss this stuff pre-nuptials? Or, you simply assumed that her expectation of you paying for her stuff would all change once she got a raise/ left school/ received a promotion?
This is a tricky one. While I’m a little more on the traditional side and believe a man is a protector and provider (and I am not going to argue with those with opposing, inconsequential views), I think this is an extreme case. I think the problem is a lot of people aren’t discerning enough to decipher between a “leech” and a woman who wants to be courted.
I think this woman is very very very irresponsible. IF they were married, this would be a different story. Why would she decide to further her education without having her finances and basic necessities sorted first? She should not have to depend this much on her boyfriend, especially within a 9 month time span. She is taking his kindness for weakness and he does indeed need to part ways with her. Even a traditionalist like myself does not like her entitled attitude/mentality. If the “hard times” were no fault of hers, I can kind of understand but she made deliberate decisions.
This guy’s been dating her for only 9 months is reluctantly paying for her entire college education?
I’ve been dating my girlfriend for 2 years and just bought her a t-shirt when we were at the mall together the other day, I thought that was a lot.
I actually see both sides of the argument. I think it’s wrong for her to expect him to make her way of life possible by supporting her financially. But I would most certainly break up with a boyfriend if he made a lot more than me and I was struggling. I couldn’t be in a healthy relationship with someone I am overly jealous of (A little is OK). If he is out spending money and going to expensive places that I couldn’t afford, I would rather find someone either willing to help me or willing to be poor with me, or just be alone rather than having someone around who’s mere presence reminds me of my failure to make good money. Personally, I have a BS degree but am stuck in an hourly job and thinking about taking some graduate classes. I’ve been with my boyfriend for 6 months and he does make more money than me but if I go back to school I would only do so if I could make it work on my own or with help from family. I certainly wouldn’t ask him for anything.
It sounds like he doesn’t care about her at all and is just using her for sex. When you love someone, you dont assume their hardships mean they want to use you. It means you genuinely want to help them. She should ditch this cheapwad, insecure, jerk.
Really puts the relationship into perspective: the guy is cheap an not generous, and doesn’t see any future with that girl because he views other people’s opinions more than his own intuition. if you cant pretend to be a great boyfriend, then stop faking it. Move on to an uglier version or someone who has a great job already. This girl thought you were into her. Obviously not.
Thank you Dijan for seeing the wrong in Bob’s attitude.
Bottom line: A REAL man would NEVER mooch off a woman to cover his poor financial decisions. A REAL woman would NEVER mooch off a man to cover her poor financial decisions. Period. Of course, the world is full of those who somehow expect others to receive them of the consequences of their own actions/poor choices.
@ Jaded, Dijan, Stunned, et al ,
I think we would all agree that a man can be reasonably expected to provide for and support a woman (financially and otherwise), PROVIDED, he has entered into a marriage/committed long term relationship with her. In fact, I think if a man loves a woman enough to be thus committed to her, he would not only expect, but also want, to provide her whatever emotional and financial support she needs. However, Some of you appear to believe that same financial support should be a female’s right as a quid pro quo for sex, (or even the promise of sex), even if there is no marriage or long term relationship: “If I’m giving him sex, he better be giving me money if I want/”need” it”-that about right, “ladies”? It’s one thing for a woman to try (sometimes grudgingly) to trade sex for for the possibility of commitment, and quite another to provide sex only with the expectation of financial gain/support (in “presents” or cash). The latter is nothing more than prostitution, albeit with a rather thin and thoroughly dishonest veil of supposed “respectability”. You know, if I’m expected to pay for sex, I think I’d prefer the company of the girl down at the local cathouse; she’s at least honest (with herself and the men she services) about how she chooses to make her living.
I agree that a real man or woman doesn’t want a bailout. Responsible adults accept the consequences of their own actions, and don’t expect others to take them on.
This really hits home for me because my guy’s ex was like this. She had lots of financial troubles by going to school for expensive degrees, and also living an extravagant lifestyle beyond her means. She also sounds like an entitled princess, expecting him to pay for all her stuff (even wanted to stop working).
I was absolutely livid when she once had the gall to ask him for $15,000 (and this was recently–years after they’d broken up!) I couldn’t believe she still felt entitled to his money even without being in a relationship with him any longer.
I don’t care that he’s still friendly with other exes (hey, there’s a few exes I’m friends with too)…but really had issues with this one. If she were an otherwise kind person who adds some kind of value to his life, I really would be okay with it. Instead, I see a “taker” who just wants to take advantage of him, and really isn’t good for him even as just a friend.
Luckily, my guy also saw the light, didn’t give her any money and cut off contact with her. Our relationship is far more egalitarian. We can’t do a complete 50/50 split since he makes more money than me, and I really don’t have as much money to give as he does…but we still do a 60/40 split of our shared living expenses, in proportion to our ability to pay, which we agreed is fair. I want to contribute what I can (and I really will put in more if/when I make more).
So I hope this guy broke up with this woman and found the right woman for him. I get this nasty feeling that even after she got out of school, it wouldn’t end and she’d still try to mooch off him (heck my guy’s ex tried to mooch off him even without a relationship!)
You are an ATM machine. hahahahaha
Spoken like a man. A greedy man.
I am kind of dating my ex husband. I raised our daughter alone since he wanted out of our marriage and chose to have very little to do with our daughter. I have worked multiple jobs, one the same for over 20 years and have struggled to get by all of my daughter’s life. My daughter and I have lived at the poverty level. I have a mortgage and lots of bills I can’t pay. He owns two homes and two cottages mortgage free and has never had to pay a mortgage. My daughter was not transported by him anywhere throughout her childhood. I have a 2006 focus sitting in the yard with 215,000 miles on it. The brakes are done. I am sick to my stomach because I won’t be able to pay to get them fixed and will be without a car. He has 67,000 miles on his car. Why???????? Because he transported our daughter nowhere. I think the law should stop men from getting away with this kind of thing and I think he should offer to pay for half of my car repair or help me to buy a new car. I wore mine out transporting a daughter that he walked away from. My advice to this girl is to run away from this guy quickly. Greed will cause nothing but suffering for her forever. If they do get married, she will end up paying her own way for everything. I have done the work of raising our daughter every single day and I have gone without basic necessities while my ex carried on his life in bachelor style. This girl should recognize that the courts allow this and if she marries him and then divorces him, he can walk away almost scot-free. Love should be more important than money and if it isn’t, then that guy is a greedy jerk.
I’m going through almost the exact same scenario. After dating my gf for about 1.5 yrs, she decided to go back to school on a scholarship, and also receives student loans. Lately she’s been cross with me because I’m not leaping at the chance to help her out and throw her some dollars, yet at the same time, I’m trying to pay off my own debt, as well as money I already spent on us on a vacation. She told me it was a cultural thing, and that in Asian culture a guy would leap at the chance to financially help their significant other. A few weeks back after lots of arguments, I decided to throw her some money and she was very happy about it, but I fear I’ve opened the flood gates. To be fair, however, when she does have money, she’s always good about helping me out or repaying me.
For me, it goes back to entitlement. What person feels they are entitled to another person’s money? I mean..if I offer it on my own accord fine…but to get mad at me because I didn’t offer it seems backwards. I fear if I give any more money I will be used.
She had a good job and decided to go back to school and now cannot support herself. She is expecting her bf to be her sugar daddy and he should NOTdo it. If he knuckles under to her pressure and pays, she will find an excuse to drop him once she has finished school and improved her situation. I personally think he should end the relationship.
I’m totally stunned by Evan’s cold-blooded response and all who cheered and added more uncaring and misguided responses.
If Bob is dating her because he cares for her, respects her, enjoys her company, feels an ounce of compassion, and is financially capable, why wouldn’t he help??
Should she stand on a street with a cardboard sign? Should she beg, borrow or steal? Maybe she will magically get a higher paying job? Maybe she should take out loans she can’t afford.
Sounds like Bob wanted to benefit from this relationship, have good times, and enjoy his six figures without considering the woman might want to strive to become successful like him. I’m guessing Bob is not a Biblical or an evolutionary psychology thinking gentleman.
Bob missed red flags, i.e. her car had to have been older or in poor condition at the beginning and it should have been apparent that her job and income needed improvement.
Maybe she felt improving herself would make her more appealing to Bob. Or, she wanted to feel more like she was on Bob’s level. Or, she felt it would increase the chance that Bob would marry her if she advanced her education and career.
If Bob has a negative attitude about helping a woman he is in a relationship with, the woman should find a man who appreciates her and cares about her well-being and efforts to improve. Bob could date up by making sure the next woman earns a six digit income to match his.
If Bob breaks up with her because he doesn’t want to provide financial assistance, his intentions and commitment was qestionable.
Of course, she could be taking advantage of this situation to make life improvements she couldn’t do on her own. Bob should be happy that his money is being utilized for good and she’s not asking so she can buy drugs, designer clothing, or other irresponsible purchases.
I am totally with you on this here. I was in that girl’s position once. I think EMK’s’ response is a bit cold blooded and one sided.
The point I believe is that the woman should get her finances together.
Otherwise the relationship suffers.
#57 Bob,
I guess the$1500 was your severance pay after having a good time.
Here’s a story. A true story. My girlfriend of 10 years broke up with me 2 months ago. During the course of our relationship we both had financial issues because of divorce expenses. Mine was particularly expensive (5 years). Long story short. As the money dwindled we began doing less and less. During the course of the 10 years I have given, not loaned several thousands because she was my significan’t other. Not a problem for me. So post breakup, since she said I didn’t make her a priority (she had problems with my kids). She stopped contacting me, via email, text or phone calls. I had to bail her out financially on a jont business venture we were on to protect my reputaion. She hasn’t had a regular job in 9 years and quit an 80k a year job because she didn’t like it. So, she began to start communicating with me ever now and then, but then it got to be every day, all day. She then told me that she has to stop texting me because she needs her space to Heal. Ok fine. I’m not pushing on her, but I love her dearly and that kind of stung. No more contact. That following week I sold my business, which was a valuable asset. Now it’s 7 days of no contact. She gets wind of the sale and texts me a congratulatory message. She knows. I Spent 2 years trying to sell. Then the next day she calls. Lo and behold we spend hours on the phone and a lot of textng back and forth. Then 2 days later she lays it on me. She needs sone money. She still isn’t working, turned down 2 jobs just this week. So I give her what she asked for, but she is adamant that we can never be a couple again like we were. She wants to remain friends though! Ouch!
She sounds like a woman of low character. She’s taking advantage of your still lingering feelings to subsidize her do nothing lifestyle at your expense. With “friends” like her, you don’t need enemies. She’s no better than a guy who will send a text, to the ex for some NSA sex. I hope you tell this friend to get lost.
She is a looser and a selfish soul. I think if you want love and to be loved it’s a two way street you both work and provide and then have fun together too!
i know a gal that only calls when she needs to eat, gas money, or needs to borrow money or needs a place to rest/sleep when she is tired. because she is cute (with lots of makeup on) a guy would put up with it. monthly cost: 500 to 700. this does not include the money borrowed. In return what does the guy get? an occasional peck on the cheek.
someone knock sense into this guy 🙂
It always comes down to sex and money.
Anyone had this thought in mind? He is using her for sex? Most men want the female to make their own, but need sex. You ever think he just want to use her for sex?
I generally dont post online BUT this hit home for me recently. I met a girl in 2013 and we fell in love. I am not typically the type who does, but it happened and I was in love all the way. There were signs in the beginning that should have warned me. She asked me for $2000 to pay her bills since she didn’t work when i first met her. come to think of it, she was unemployed 4 months when i met her. she lived on her own prior to this and had a BF (he was ugly and a Dr). I am grateful for being a good looking guy and a business man. I loved her a lot and we had a great time together. She weathered some storms with me with my issues, towards the end of 2013, I had a major financial set-back. No business, no income coming in. I was married before and told my ex-wife of my situation and she offered to let me use a room in her home until I got myself up and running. My own GF didn’t offer this as she felt she couldn’t (another lie, she started working and making 70K year). I broke it off with her because I felt betrayed and the stress of no income, etc got to me. I loved her still through this period. I went out on dates after and realized I wanted something real like we had. I tried getting back with her 2 months later but she said she didn’t want to because I didnt have my “shit” together. I felt very lost and very hurt after this. 2 more months goes by as I start my recovery, she calls, we see eachother, have great sex at a hotel, she cries telling me how much she misses me and loves me and I hurt her. I told her I want her in my life. She then next day dissapears. I dont hear from her ( i didn’t call because I felt something was up) for another 1 month or so. She told me she’s seeing someone and can’t see me. I felt like crap but accepted this. She told me she still in love with me though.. 2 more months goes by in 2014- April- she calls me and i told her that I am doing well, money is coming in ( i HATED myself for telling her about money to bring her back ) says she wants to be with me. I said okay great. didn’t last a week- i felt something was strange. i moved on, she calls 1 month later (july) and she moved into her own place and wont let me see it or come over. I saw her at a hotel for 18 hour period, we had great sex and then she dissapeared. than September, she calls and I brag about my finances (all lies btw) and she said that she is tangled in a mess with a guy (another ugly Dr) who she doesnt want to be with and has broken up with him several times. but she still has feelings for him and he calls her back and she goes back to him because he cries a lot and wants her. I told her off – really bad and went away. In october 2014- she calls again and said I have made up my mind, i want to be with you BUT i am not working anymore and I need to be taken care of financially. She said the Dr boyfriend realized she was stressed out, on anti-anxiety meds (she gained some weight -about 15#) and i told her i will only take care of a woman IF i am married to them and or we are living together. She gave me the ultimate guilt trip, about me being a man, being accountable. I couldnt win this arguement. I saw her the following week- BTW- she kept her distance with me- i saw her only 3xs in October- and she wanted me to give her $5k a month starting 10/31. I knew something was off.. 2nd time I saw her, she called the Dr bf and called it off with him in front of me. this was the 4th time she did this to him. not even 4 days later she and i got into a fight about her distance and other bs.. i had a real relationship with her so I knew what that felt like- this wasn’t it. anyway, this last week, we got back together again and I was stressing like crazy on paying her bills and mine, my ex wifes and kids and trying to make it all work. I honestly felt that because I loved her it was my duty to take care of her – BUT i needed more than what we had. i wanted a marriage and commitment of the highest degree. In 2013, i spoiled her with gifts only for her to tell me that “she owes me nothing” that hurt. My ex wife doesnt even have those feelings. Anyway, I tested her by telling her that i feel the distance and seeing me when it is most convenient and changing plans at last minute is disrespectful to me and i wont stand for it. As such, until we get married, I wont take care of her financially. Didn’t hear back from her at all for 2 whole days. Until last night, when the only text she sent me “was not to contact her anymore. It’s very unhealthy for her” I was with my friends who were all telling me that she just wanted money- she loved me But she must have a habit of being taking care of by men. This time around, she found someone she loves deeply (me) and expected same- but she found someone stronger and isn’t desperate.i woudnt doubt she called the last Dr guy and got him to thing “she needs him and his help and she wants to be with him ” before sending me the text. Its truly sad she chose to sell her soul and heart for money. I felt what we had was special and worth more than anything money. but reality of this life in OC is different. thanks for this post that confirmed my own values that I will not take care of anyone financially until I marry them.
Dude, why would you want to marry such a flake and user? Seriously?? She did you a favor.
Stop thinking with the little head. That wasn’t love on your part. That was lust.
It certainly wasn’t love on her part. That was avarice.
You dodged a bulllet and you don’t even know it. How sad.
Wake up, guy. There is more to love than great sex and beauty.
I only believe in giving money to a woman I’m actually married to.
While I am happy to pay for a dinner or another date, I don’t lend women money. What happens is the dynamic of the relationship changes if you do and she starts to look at you like her personal ATM.
It is so funny. Feminists talk about equality, equality, equality. Yet at the same time, some of these same women that talk about equality, expect men to support the lifestyles of some women who want to use men as ATMsm
Using someone and needing assistance-big difference. I’m not a feminist. I’m very traditional with my views and dating. I know what I’m bringing to the table. Crumbs are unacceptable to me. That being said, I can’t date broke. ..ever.
I’ve noticed that in the vast majority of relationships (romantic or otherwise) the person who receives the benefit of sacrifice is the one who ‘Would do anything for the other person and/or believes we’re a team who should band together to overcome this obstacle (read: give person money)’.
I’m in a similar situation. I lost my job while in a relationship with a great guy. We love each other but does financial difficulty mean I love you until you lose your job?
Mao I gotta ask do you love this woman?
If a guy truly loves his GF, he doe not want ONLY great time with her, he naturally WANTS to support and help her. Relationship is NOT just sex and fun, what most guys want. Relationship is helping your GF/BF in a tough time too. If a guy doesn’t want to help his GF that means he never loved her and wanted just a great time with her. So, she better leaves him as soon as possible as there is no point to keep dating. This guy will never stand by her in tough times.
If a BF cannot help his GF he loves, especially when he easily can, then he does NOT deserve a GF and a relationship. He can have one-night stands, flings, whatever but NOT a relationship.
Nowadays, most parents don’t educate little boys to be a man, that’s why when they grow up, they are sissies without any understanding what it is to be a man and what man’s responsibilities are. They want his woman to be EQUAL to him but yet, very feminine, classy, sexy, lady like.
There is NO both. It is either one or another. Want an equal woman, who pays for herself, then don’t complain that she acts like a man, as it requires masculinity. If you want a lady, then be a man yourself and a gentleman, and let her be feminine.
In nature, everything has to be balanced. If men are loosing their masculinity and gaining femininity, then women have to get masculinity and loose their femininity.
So, guys, stop being sissies. Grow up, and take the man’s responsibilities… and if you are whining about helping and supporting your GF, when she has some financial problems, then you don’t deserve her, and let her go to date a real man. I bet, if you guys had a financial problem or a health problem, all of you would EXPECT and WANT your GF to stand by you and help you.
There is saying ‘Hard times will always reveal true friends’, so if a BF is not a true friend, then why does anyone need him?
I am even disgust to read some guys response on here. Aren’t you embarrassed? Where is your pride being a man?
There is a difference between knowing someone a long time, and seeing them fall on hard times, and helping them…and knowing someone a short time, and enabling them while they are financially irresponsible. The GF walked into her situation with her eyes wide open…this isn’t a physical problem, a family problem, or a sudden and unexpected job loss. This is a woman who quit a job to go to school with no forethought.
There is a BOTH…a woman can be feminine and responsible, and contribute financially in a relationship, or take care of herself. It’s not mutually exclusive.
I am watching my very feminine, stunning daughter plan her finances around her masters degree…she fully understands her living expenses, plus her tuition. She has money saved to fall back on if unexpected expenses arise. There is nothing masculine about thinking and planning; it’s not gender specific. She doesn’t expect her boyfriend or her parents to bail her out if she fails.
It’s a huge mistake to bail people out of poor financial decisions; unless you allow them to fail, they never learn and they will treat you like an ATM. And it’s not gender specific; men do it to women as well.
The answer here is to say, “Honey, I love you…let me help you manage your finances better, here is how to get a subsidized loan, or a federal grant; here are scholarships, I will help you apply. And I will help fix your car.” He is then a helpful and good friend, without being an enabler.
Buffy,
Couldn’t agree more!
So. No I can’t help you out, but yes-I still want to sleep with you? NEXT! I’m a go getter in life, that being said, if I fall on hard times and my dude couldn’t help me? Yeah, time to recruit a bench warmer. ..
The problem comes when you feel entitled. sex is not a bargain. Myself I wouldn’t consider it a bargaining chip since it is consensual. I don’t mind helping my girlfriend, or even friends. But when I realize that you feel entitled, that is the end.
It isn’t about being entitled. If you’re in a relationship, couples help on another. If my electricity is off, you’re not coming over to screw me in the dark! Naw, playa, I’m good. There are no free fucks. *Shrugs. But, you do you.
I am in the same situation, although in my case, I work and am saving money to pay for my education. However, my ex girl and I were really close, and I’ve been there for here each time, bailing her out financially. I listen to her each time she has a problem. recently, my girlfriend started taking loans and asking me to help her repay. My ex is in really deep financial problems, which I wudn’t mind helping. However, I feel that both of them are entitled to me helping them out because I am supposed to be the man. I have thought through and thanks to the advice I read here, I am ending both relationships for good.
Let me preface my thoughts with this: Nobody is entitled to someone else’s hard earned money.
I also hate it when people say, “it’s just money”. It’s not just money. That money represents the persons time and investment that it took to earn that money. Someone had to trade their valuable time, possibly away from family and friends, to earn it. Why do people feel that if a person makes more money than someone else then they have to “be generous” or else they’re evil and greedy? The truth is that we don’t know what charities they’ve given to or who they’ve helped in the past or maybe they’ve had their own struggles and never want to be there again. I think it’s very selfish of people who demand others to help just because they have more. I think the reason why a person with money may get upset with that mindset is because money represents the time that he or she had to trade for that money. So when people say “it’s just money” it communicates that their time/life isn’t important. And as I’m sure everyone is aware, it takes a person with money to employ other people. It’s NOT just money!
Now with that being said, it doesn’t sound to me that Bob’s GF is a gold digger. Also, who has the right to say whether she planned things out perfectly or not? We don’t know her whole story nor do we need to. She is a single mother of three who is looking to better her life for her kids. Sure she could have saved more money before going back to school but seriously? She wants a better life for her kids now and she was willing to do something about it. There is no perfect scenario for her. She either sinks or swims. People may call it bad planning and not being organized but there are times in your life when you need to take a chance. If her car didn’t break down and she was able to finish school and land a great paying job everybody would be praising her for being so brave and strong and they would tell her to write a book or make a movie. Gag me! Her mortgage is $1000 per month! I don’t know where she lives but a $1000 mortgage is a lot cheaper than renting an apartment for four! Plus if she rents and misses a payment she can get evicted where if she owns she can maybe work things out with her lender. Where is the compassion from people?
Was she being manipulative towards Bob by saying that her man should take care of her? Maybe or maybe not. Love is communicated/interpreted differently from person to person. Maybe for her she feels loved when she’s taken care of or supported. That’s no different than someone who feels loved when they receive gifts or affection or your time or praise or sex…etc. I’ve been burned by a woman before too and much worse than what anyone else here has posted so I understand what Bob may be feeling but honestly I think he’s equally at fault here. He’s dating a mother of three who was driving a beater. Surely he could sense that she was struggling financially. Maybe Bob went after some low hanging fruit and now he’s required to invest more of himself. I’m of the opinion that if you really love the other person then you’re naturally going to want to help. Nobody with a heart is going to stand by just watching someone drown. If a person can help then they should want to out of the goodness of their heart but there are too many people with either a hurt or selfish heart but it should still be their choice. How can you say that you “love” someone without speaking their love language? Everyone is different.
Has anyone even had the thought that maybe the GF is thinking ahead about the days that are coming where it will cost more money to raise her three kids so she needs to act now? Probably not. Maybe she’s more organized and planned than what she’s getting credit for. People want to stone this woman because of how they perceive poor people who live off the government. Let me ask you this. How many of you think it’s better to ask for help from your BF/GF vs. getting help from the government? Also, how many people on this blog have 18 months worth or emergency funds saved for themselves or are debt free? Obviously there are real gold diggers out there who need to be shut down but we live in a society where it’s frowned upon if a person needs help because of a few bad apples who take advantage of the system. We just automatically assume that they made bad choices and they deserve what they get. Where is all the compassion?
Bob needs to get his shit together and decide what he wants. I’m sorry that you got burned in the past (I know from personal experience how much that hurts) but from the way you’re describing your story it doesn’t sound like you’re ready for a real relationship. A real relationship comes with real problems. You either love her enough to help her suceed or you don’t and you move on.
I was in that woman’s position once and I couldn’t understand that the guy wouldn’t help me.
Actually No. I DID understand that he wouldn’t help me, but we were also living in different cities and he would want me to visit him over the week-end when as a student that’s when I would normally do my part-time hours. I don’t resent him from not helping me; it was my burden to carry and I did. But at the same time I think it was irrational of him to expect me to be there 100% when my head was always on my bill to pay and whether I’d be able to afford tuition the following semester. I thought it was too stressful to try to maintain a relationship whilst trying to make ends meet.I broke-up.
man am glad i take the time off to read this article , this could open a blind man eyes because i went headlong into the same shit pit with women , i love the person that say you either pis or get off the pot that is a great statement as to say wise up man , but i want to be careful here this should not be a one sided situation it go for men as for women , but for my friend i think he is afraid of high because he started worrying about falling he did’t have the string in him to believe in himself that he can make it in any situation that is not beyond his control, i think that is a weakness on his path ok his girlfriend i think was pushing the envelope to far too quick and that was very hash on dealing with a situation so delicate that had the potential to be of great benefit to both of them , not very wise girl it is not that you did’t have good intention but the way you approach it get your bf scare saying to himself what if you run out on him or maybe you had other intention not conducive to his but the two of you could get together and explain oneself to each other . try again.
You make $100,000 per year. Help her, enjoy the relationship and be grateful that you can help her. Be grateful that she is intelligent and wise enough to go to graduate school. You like the relationship and her, this is hard to find and build again. Women are often not given the same opportunities as men, so be grateful and help her and you will be rewarded with love, commitment and your own happiness. Or you can sit home alone and count your money, while dating others and potentially ending up in the same spot or worse.
Sorry, but while he should help her if he loves her and can see a future together, he’s not obligated to help out just because of gender. How was she not given the same opportunity? Was she charged more for school because of her gender? That is self victimizing BS. What would she do if she was single? Would she have not gone to school then? What if the situation was the other way around? Would she have looked at him twice if that was the case? Entitlement is never a good base for a relationship no matter the gender.
What if it was the other way around? I had girls who did not give me a chance if I didn’t make a certain amount of money.
9 months into the relationship – Nobody truly knows their partner in that period of time – Nobody. You’re not married, nor engaged – steer clear of nonsense like this.
Now, as to whether or not you should help her out financially – HELL NO. She was likely waiting for this situation to arise, so she could take advantage of someone who could help her out financially. Just because he can help out financially, DOES NOT mean he should. That’s his money, not hers. He likely has his own hopes/aspirations/saving plans. The last thing he needs is to get involved in her financial mess. It’s simply NOT his problem.
He’s assisting with mortgage payments and purchasing capital assets for her such as a car?
Wow – just wow. That woman really needs to grow up and stop leeching off other people. I would run for the hills. She’s living in a fairy tale land where sugar plums trees abound.
Steve
Dump the b**tch she will drain you of all your money and look for a caring un-selfish person!
I ve experience many heartbreak in my life. I dated a girl for six months; gave her everything, but she dumped me at the long run. women dont care wether u re broke or not, they just want u out of ur way to do things for them. if she cant live without ur money, then u dump her and move on with ur life.
I am having this same problem and I am grateful to hear varied comments. My girlfriend is expecting too much from me. That I pay for everything in our dates including her transport to date, that i pay her son school fees, and pay other assorted expenses.
Sugar daddy sound like a term I can use. The reason i wont is because I have known her for 2 months, she won’t introduce me to anyone who knows her and she neatly unpacks her few clothes in the house and neatly packs them when going away leaving no trace that she ever was in my house.
I think Evan is spot on.
If I am married and my wife needs some money so she can go to school, it is one thing. But lending that kind of money to some girl I have been dating for less than a year is a totally different thing. In fact, even if we were married, I would think twice before doing something like this. I knew a guy who ran a small accounting business. He met this girl, fell head over heels and got married. Within a few months of the wedding, she announced she wanted to go to school. He took out loans against HIS house to pay for her many of her educational expenses. It wasn’t THEIR house, it was his house. He had owned it way before he met this girl. Anyway, she goes to school pretty much full time, only working a part time job and focusing on her studies so he is also paying all of her living expenses. She finally finishes school and gets a great job with decent pay. Once that happens she divorces him and leaves him with all of the debt.
I am not looking for a woman who wants me for my money. I date loving, kind women who are not only attractive but work hard and are smart as well. If I wanted a sugar baby, I would go to a website devoted to them. A woman who is trading a relationship for money is a sugar baby no matter what she calls herself.
Most ends bad. Breaking up is hard to do so many like to exploit the weakness! Remember it is not the end of the world although it seams like that way. This is the simplest way.
I’m in a very similar situation.
Girlfriend of 2 years, known her for 4 years.
Took out a $3000 loan because she didn’t have a job for 1 week. Oops. An honest mistake I guess… Then leased a new car. Totals to 300 a month. Didn’t like that car, so upgraded to a 2017 car. Totals to 700 a month.
So now she’s at 1000 a month in expenses. But wait, she gives her family 800 a month as “rent”. Also, credit card bills.
I’ve been helping her for a long time, got bang her half or more of all my paychecks. And I don’t really care cuz at least I don’t have any debt.
Now she’s falling behind on payments until now, she doesn’t have a job. Owes over $2000 dollars this month and has a negative balance in her bank account! So of course she turns to me.
Now I have taken out a loan to help her cover that, and now I’m in debt. Granted I’m a lot better with money and I have been making huge payments to try to bring this loan down as quick as possible.
I really don’t know what to do because I don’t think she’s trying to use me on purpose. I think she is just absolutely terrible with money.
The only thing that had me concerned is she asked me to get a loan, and when I said no (the obvious first reaction) she tried to make me feel bad. It seemed out of character, but I don’t know… maybe I’m just being blind. Or maybe she was just in a desperate situation.
I’m really considering ending this… Even though it’s tough, I can manage the debt I have now, but if I get in any deeper it could get out of control.
“The only thing that had me concerned is she asked me to get a loan, and when I said no (the obvious first reaction) she tried to make me feel bad. It seemed out of character, but I don’t know… maybe I’m just being blind. Or maybe she was just in a desperate situation.”
If she really cared about you why would she try to make you feel bad? For me if she’s desperate but cared about you she’d go bankrupt or something as that would protect you and be the right thing for your future together…you’d be able to move on once the debts are dealt with.
I lent my fiancé £39000. We’d been together 3 years, engaged for over 1 year, had set a date for our wedding, moved in together. But she had to quit her job for health reasons and take on a much lower paid job and could not pay her debts..so did this to restructure them reducing payments from £900 per month to £160. We could finally move on without this cloud hanging over us.
As soon as the cheques were cleared she ended it..5 days after I lent her the money she was gone and moved 500 miles away to be with another man less than a month later. They are married with two children which I now support.
Turns out she’d been keeping how she really felt from me for 18 months and just kept the relationship going (engagement, planning a wedding date, moving in together after I’d sold my home and relocated for us to be together, sex, etc) just to string me along and keep me happy so I’d sort out her finances.
She is paying none of it back, has no savings, no assets, no income.
I’m married to a wonderful woman now and I helped her financially too as I refused to let my ex change me, but I will never get over the betrayal, the self loathing that I let it happen, the shame I feel at sleeping with what I now know was not my fiancé but to me a prostitute. This happened in 2003 and for many years after I was a in a very dark place; I’m in a much better place now but I’ll never be close to being the man that I was ever again.
My girlfriend of a year and a half just broke up with me because I asked her if she needed help with rent. SHe said, “why do you have to ask me, cant you just give me the money?” This is my GF, not my wife. Not only that, I am buying a house next week and had offered her to be able to stay with me so she wouldnt have to pay rent or internet or electricity. She broke up with me last Sunday, basically a week before I get my house. I think she should try being a little smarter than that
I have had to let go of a girlfriend who bought a car she cant afford after I told her to get one she can afford. Then she uses a soft voice to try to get me to pay for her car when I am trying to use my extra cash to make investments.
Clearly she planned it that I will pay for it anyway so I showed the door.
I think you should help her. Your woman is in a place where she has to ask for financial support. Should she get it from you or another man. You’ve known her long enough to determine whether she is using you or not. The easiest thing would be to let her move in with you and she could save the money that she is spending on rent. In 5 months she should have $5000 in her account and y’all move on from there, but don’t leave her when she needs someone. If she already loves you, she’ll love you even more. If you can afford to help her, why not? It’s not like she is a stranger.
Very enlightening comments. I am a middle-aged widower and successful attorney. I pay 100% for all dates and 100% for all trips.After dating this woman for 4 days, she wanted $700 to help her pay her rent. I refused.After dating this same woman for 8 days and agreeing to meet her family in a distant state, I was unable to go because of my elderly father’s illness. She demanded that I pay for her trip 100% even though I couldn’t go. I refused.After dating this same woman for 14 days, she wanted to go grocery shopping together. I don’t live with her. I don’t eat at her house. Our meals together are always at restaurants that I pay 100% for. I estimated the grocery bill to be about $300 for the 4 weeks of groceries she was buying. I refused.While we spend most nights together, there is no sex because of her religious beliefs.She claims her previous BFs have always done “what’s right” and I’m the only one who doesn’t pay for her personal expenses. So far, her attempts to guilt / shame me have been unsuccessful.
This is typical. She has this view in her head of how things should be, but she’s not taking you seriously at all because it all depends on what you give her. If you don’t give it to her , then she will look for someone who does. That’s the truth. If you don’t help her then you’re not good for her. She feels like she’s wasting time with you, and she’s not even with you at the moment. And look after all that, if she does break up with you at least she has a new used car anyways. Let me be very clear about this, these are legally gifts that you’re giving her. You can never ask for them back. She never has to pay you back ever. It’s a thin line. 9 months not so sure, 20 years maybe something to consider.
I think Steve made a great point when he said it depends on the individual woman and for that matter I would add that it depends on the individual man. I am maybe an anomaly in that I am both an extremely well situated woman and I would also describe myself as a pretty old fashioned, conservative woman. If a man wants to date me, he pays, period. If he wants to progress the relationship forward by living with me (I have a child who is watching and impacted by everything I do so it is really unlikely I would live with a man before marriage at this point) it is up to him to make that happen financially and if we are married I view my money as my money and his money as my money too! That said, I am a super responsible person who doesn’t throw cash around on ridiculous things. My late husband did well financially before we met and his wealth grew after we married and I took over management of our joint finances.
My house (which I bought before I was married with my own money) is paid off, no debt, college educated, money in the bank and I deliberately “retired” from a career in finance in my early 30s to stay at home and raise a family while my husband worked. From a dating standpoint I feel downright repulsed by men who have a 50/50 attitude when it comes to finances with a woman especially when the reason for that attitude is because they have wasted and frittered away their money on themselves and are now not in a position to assume the role of provider. I married exactly the kind of man I wanted. He was a wonderful provider and I felt quite safe with him but he tragically died when I was 32 leaving me with our young child to raise. I have tried to date but have found that my perspectives on gender roles in relationships and marriage do not align with most American men these days….at least the ones I have met on dating apps. I find it pointless to argue or try to change anyone’s perspectives and core values as others have arrived at their beliefs through their own upbringing and experiences so I just try to be upfront about who I am and what I need in terms of financial leadseship in a partner in order to feel safe and protected and loved. Then I let the chips fall where they may….usually with me moving on when it becomes apparent that the man isn’t able or willing to provide. Every once in awhile I get the fun experience of realizing the man was actually looking to me to make it happen financially for him! I think people who disagree with my beliefs about gender roles assume that I hate men or that I am lazy or otherwise awful. I am raising up a young man. I love men and I don’t take the sacrifice a provider makes for his family lightly. I am teaching my son everything I can about finance and other skills he needs to succeed so that he is competent and able to provide for his future family. Of course I hope he chooses a mate wisely so she will add to his wealth and his joy and so she won’t lead him to financial ruin. While I expect a man to provide, I also expect him to exercise his wisdom in choosing who he should provide for.
If your well established and financially stable, then start a relationship with someone of greater or equal value financially. If you don’t mind paying your own way, find a lady that has her stuff together and that can pay her own bills. I wouldn’t just stick to dating and avoid relationships because there are people just like you looking for that perfect fit. Trust me, when you have money you have more options so use it to your advantage and get rid of the bad apple. I wouldn’t date from bars they Are full of Broke gold diggers btw.
The guy making fun of spelling says “your.”
I think my situation is the same, I have been helping my girlfriend with money, she’s on study leaf and I love her dearly, now the problem is she started posting threads that if I dnt provide for her she got offers from other guys who would look after her, and she started going on random dates