Most Women Don’t Dream of Dating Nice Guys


I love infographics, even when they’re based on silly, not-peer-reviewed, not-statistically significant, research, especially if they prove something illuminating.

That’s why I’m sharing this infographic from a site called Dating Metrics. I’m not sure what they’re selling, so don’t worry about it. Just pay attention to the part about women preferring bad boys to nice guys. It’s amusing and a good leaping-off point for a discussion.

In short, this guy looked at lists written by women about the 53 “sexiest TV characters” and realized that:

40% of women’s “fantasy TV boyfriends” are cold blooded murderers!
21% are vampires…
And only 14% are nice guys!

Now, it seems to me that this was a question that had a very predictable answer. Because the question wasn’t about “what kind of man would you like to marry?” In fact, the question was about the “sexiest TV characters” and “fantasy TV boyfriends”. When you frame it like that, whoever says that her fantasy is to marry Jason in accounting, who is kind, stable, consistent, communicative and relationship-oriented?

It seems patently obvious that damaged, rebellious, mysterious and brooding are pretty much the OPPOSITE traits that one would look for in a life partner.

As a result, this infographic is amusing, but much ado about nothing.

To me, the real question is why we glorify the traits associated with the bad boy: damaged, romantic, manly, rebellious, mysterious, smart, brooding.

It seems patently obvious that damaged, rebellious, mysterious and brooding are pretty much the OPPOSITE traits that one would look for in a life partner, yet women still undeniably find them attractive and sexy.

I am not even friendly with anyone who is damaged, rebellious, mysterious or brooding, so I’m not the most objective judge, so let me ask you: what is it about these exciting inscrutable bad boys that continues to have a pull on you? Is being with someone “nice” really all that bad or boring? And do you know of any dark, damaged bad boys who have turned into happy, healthy, stand-up husbands?

Your thoughts, below, are appreciated.

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  1. 81

    The Census Bureau will give you the accurate divorce rate, not that link…

    1. 81.1
      Karl R

      Where to find divorce rates:

      The CDC tracks divorce statistics, based on Census Bureau data. It’s possible that Nick found a link to a CDC report on the Census Bureaus cite, but the bulk of the reports will be accessible from the CDC website.

      Neither site provides data which is sufficiently granular for me to run my own statistical analyses.


      The divorce rate:

      Which one?

      Off the top of my head, I can think of three different ways that the divorce rate is calculated. All of them have problems.

      When I think of the divorce rate, I’m thinking of my chance of making it “until death do us part”. If that’s what you’re looking for, sorry. None of them calculate that. If either the husband or wife dies, the couple is excluded from the calculation.


      A 51% divorce rate:

      If you look at older data (or a combination of older/newer data), you can probably get a number right around 50%. It’s also possible that Nick found a particular recent calculation that yielded this rate. I can’t speak to the reliability or weaknesses of the calculation without seeing an explanation for how it was derived.

      Regardless of the methodology, people who get married young skew the divorce rate upward.

      1. 81.1.1

        Im not a bad person nor a masogynist. Im willing to love a woman thatll love me. Why is everybody hitting me with hurtful comments?

        1. Katie

          Nick said….

          Evan these types of women end up fat,single, and alone and miserable. They won’t pick nice men because they know they don’t deserve them.   Evan these types of women end up fat,single, and alone and miserable. They won’t pick nice men because they know they don’t deserve them.

          Hi, Nick! That’s why.

        2. Katie

          Oh and btw, it misogynist. Miso like the soup.

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          Nick’s reply was a direct insult to Katie and was also misspelled.

          -The Management

        4. GoWiththeFlow


          You are promoting Red Pill ideology that is chock full of misogyny.      Red Pill is the flip side of the coin of radical feminism.   They both have a lot in common; dehumaning and stereotyping the opposite sex;   an inability to listen to the other side (because you need not listen to a sub-human); dismissal of any data or information that contradicts their worldview; an us versus them mentality;   and embracing  the victim role.

          You say you are willing to love a woman who will love you, but what you are missing is that a woman will love a man  that loves women.   What about your statements  that “99% of women my age are alone or in codependent marriages,” or “Women have wanted to be Supremacists for decades,” or “Look at how unhappy most women are,” says I love women!   Your words say women are complete wretches who want to dominate men.

          Now let’s go over (since you’ve been unbrainwashed and all) what Red Pill orthodoxy states about  women.   They are out to ride the cock carousel with bad boys  while they’re young while  maliciously ignoring nice guys.   And then they become desperate shriveled up hags on their 30th birthday.   Whereupon they malevolently trick a poor beta guy they would have ignored when younger into marriage.   Only to cheat on him every chance they get, because hypergamy!   And then they file for divorce for no good reason and leave their ex destitute and heart broken.   Oh and as SEH says in comment 75, women are “damaged” unless they are a virgin who has never dated or slept with another guy.   But men’s goal should be to fuck (and thereby damage) as many as possible.   And BTW  watch out, a  woman will claim NAWALT!   Don’t believe it because  all women are like this.   Beware guys, no exceptions!

          Yeah, why would any woman be attracted to a man  who thinks that about her?   It would be like a radical feminist expecting a man to want to love her despite that fact that she believes all sex is rape, all men want to inherently subjugate women, and they live to make wars and destroy the planet.

          Nick, I don’t know what hurt in your heart drove you to look for answers on the internet and connect with the Red Pill message.   But  the attitudes and beliefs you have embraced about women won’t inspire one to love you and want to make you happy.   And it must be miserable on some level to go through life thinking society and women are out to get you at every turn.   That you want a woman to love you but women are inherently untrustworthy, so the answer is to play games in a calculated way.

          Read Jeremy’s response to SEH. (comment 75 thread) Karl R’s too.   And Buck’s beliefs that true alpha confidence in a man comes from working towards  goals, embracing responsibility, having a code of ethics and integrity, but also developing a sense of  empathy and sympathy.

        5. Nick

          I never said all women are bad. Women who arent feminine are undateable. I never said men should sleep around. I think such men are scum. Everybodys twisting my words around. Ill be happy with just one woman for the rest of my life if its an interdependent marriage.

    2. 81.2

      LOL!   Dude!   The researchers used the divorce data from the CDC.

      But don’t let a study using the data from the statistical resource YOU quote interfere with your need to believe that marriage sucks because women suck 😉

      BTW, still waiting for your link to the statistically significant and reproduceable scientific study that shows that “99% of the women” in your age group are “alone or in codependent marriages.”

    3. 81.3

      @Nick: “Ill be happy with just one woman for the rest of my life if its an interdependent marriage.” “Being kind is the key… Natural attraction involves masculine men and feminine women. “

      Your desires seem fair enough, from reading some of your comments. I hope u can find what u want, and I’m sure u can, if u keep a positive mindset. 🙂

      What I find puzzling is that u don’t feel that there are many women who meet those (very reasonable) criteria around u–feminine, respectful women who can be one half of a mutually beneficial relationship. I don’t have a ton of female friends, but of those I have, maybe 3/4 of them fit that criteria. It makes me think that maybe your lenses/standards are a bit skewed. I think you would say the same thing to a woman who claimed there were hardly any “good men” around.

      1. 81.3.1

        Ive come across some great women. Theyre always married to a good man with kids before I meet them. The women I pursued were the emotionally unavailable types. I wish Id known that before pursuing them. Its THEM I typically hear say “Nice guys dont exist” or “Where are the all the good men?” I hope my luck changes soon.

  2. 82

    Women making angry comments on here are using the terms like “dude” and “buddy.” Im guessing they arent Ivy League. Theyre probably junior college dropouts. The blog is called “Most Women Dont Dream of Dating Nice Guys.” Why would women even be on such a blog? Something’s not stirring the Kool-Aid. A woman who picks bad men must be bad themselves. How are good men who get sent to the ringer wrong?

  3. 83

    There is no equal opportunity blame here and if its one-sided(against men) its ok.

    1. 83.1
      Karl R

      Nick said: (#81.3.1)

      “The women I pursued were the emotionally unavailable types. I wish Id known that before pursuing them. Its THEM I typically hear say ‘Nice guys dont exist’ or ‘Where are the all the good men?'”

      If a woman says that (or anything similar, like “All the good men are taken”), then she’s not a good match for any man. As you said, you don’t want to pursue her. You want to dump her as soon as she  shows that attitude.

      This type of woman blames  men for their dating problems. It’s not your job (or any man’s job) to change her  mind. That’s her  responsibility.


      Nick said: (#81.3.1)

      “Ive come across some great women. Theyre always married to a good man with kids before I meet them.”

      So, in other words, “All the good women are taken.”

      What did I just say about women who said things like that?


      When you say things like that, you’re telling the world that you’re not a good match for any woman. Women won’t want to date you. If they’re already dating you, they should dump you as soon as you show that attitude.

      You even had a description for women like that. You called them “emotionally unavailable”.

      When you blame women for your dating problems, it’s not any  woman’s job to change your mind. That’s your responsibility.


      Nick said: (#83)

      “There is no equal opportunity blame here and if its one-sided(against men) its ok.”

      If you read through this entire website, you will find hundreds of places where women accuse me (and Evan) of always blaming women.

      That accusation typically comes from women who blame men for their dating problems (the same women you describe as “emotionally unavailable”).

      There are also a similar number of men who accuse me (and Evan)  of always blaming men. They’re the ones who blame women for their dating problems.


      As I said earlier (# blaming women is pointless. (So is blaming men.) It’s your responsibility to fix your own dating problems. Nobody else is going to do it for you.


      Nick asked: (#82)

      “The blog is called ‘Most Women Dont Dream of Dating Nice Guys.’ Why would women even be on such a blog?”

      The website is called “Understand Men. Find Love.” (It’s right up at the top of the page.)

      So it would be more appropriate to ask why men are even on this blog.


      Evan owns the website, the business, and the blog. His presence is easy to explain.


      Many of the most notable male contributors showed up looking for free dating advice. (A few men even become Evan’s clients, but they represent a tiny portion of his client base.) Mostly we’re welcome because we provide insight into what men think.

      Many women are interested in getting someone similar to men like Jeremy, Nathan, Mr. Right or me. (Maybe not someone who looks like us, but someone who thinks and acts like us.) Our posts explain what types of behaviors are likely to attract commitment-minded men, and what type of behaviors are likely to drive those same men away.

      Then there are men like Tom10 and Lance. They’re the charming alphas whom so many women are attracted to … even though these men have no intention of settling down anytime soon. They show women both the attractiveness -and- the futility of chasing a commitment with these men.

      Men like you and SEH, you provide the dark mirror. When a woman shows up and blames men for her dating problems, we can point to posts like yours and ask, “Do you want to date a man who sounds like Nick or SEH?” They, of course, don’t want to date men who blame women. And that’s when we point out that they sound exactly the same way … so no men will want to date them either.

      Some of those women learn. They change their tone. They stop blaming men. They become a lot more successful. Others don’t change. When they leave, they are just as angry and unsuccessful as when they first showed up.


      Similarly, you can learn. You can change your tone. You can stop blaming women. You can become a lot more successful. (It still won’t be easy. I was dating steadily for three years before I started dating my wife.)

      Or you can decide not to change. In that case, you will be just as angry and unsuccessful when you leave.

  4. 84

    Good. I want a woman to learn and change as well. I want us to eventually cross paths and be together.

    1. 84.1
      Karl R

      Nick said:

      “Good. I want a woman to learn and change as well.”

      Why is that good?

      If a woman learns and changes, she does it for her benefit, not yours.

      And until you change, you’ll still be the kind of person that I recommend that men and women avoid dating.


      Just to be clear, my wife did not change. I did.

      1. 84.1.1

        I just said Ill improve as a person too. I started working out and striving to improve my overall health.

        1. Karl R

          Nick said:

          “I just said Ill improve as a person too.”

          I think you missed my point.

          Improving as a person is is wonderful. I would strongly recommend looking at what Jeremy wrote (# above, and what Tom10 wrote (# I would also read the blog post Evan did talking about the importance of the combination of passion and proficiency.


          I was asking about the word “too”.

          It sounds like you’re requiring that women change (or a woman changes). It’s certainly nice if you meet a woman who is improving herself and her dating/relationship skills, but that seems like an unnecessary requirement to me.

          More importantly, there are very few women who will be working on their dating and relationship skills. As far as I know, in all my time dating, I never met a woman who had read any of Evan’s advice.


          While my wife does improve herself (things like job skills), they’re not necessarily traits that really matter to me. She certainly hasn’t learned anything that Evan teaches. (If she had, she wouldn’t have wasted 30+ years in a series of relationships with men who made lousy boyfriends.)


          The advice that I pointed you toward  (by Jeremy, Tom10 and Evan) will increase the number of women who are attracted to you. Much of Evan’s other advice will tell you which women  you need to avoid. (The advice is usually directed toward women, but it applies equally to men.)

          Don’t worry about what advice women are learning. It’s generally irrelevant to your success.

  5. 85

    Bye bye dark mirror.

  6. 86

    @Chance, end of thread 75.   You asked me why I call BS on the whole hypergamy issue.   Shaukat did a good job explaining what is wrong from an evo-psych perspective, but I think it boils down to something much simpler.   The theory states that women want a man who is “better than them.”   But better at what?


    Is it that women want a man who has higher societal status?   GWTF raised an excellent point that most women today marry sideways rather than up.   Is it that they want a man with more education?   Maybe, but although many women do want that, others don’t – so are only SOME women hypergamous?   Red pill would have us believe it is all!   Is it that they want men with more money?   Again same issue as with education.   The manosphere guys accuse women of “moving the goalposts”, but they are excellent themselves at this when it comes to nailing down what hypergamy actually means in their context.


    Whatever any individual man believes hypergamy applies to – education, money, status, whatever – he will find examples to confirm his bias and will ignore the examples that don’t.   That is lazy and leads to a distorted world-view.   There may be a kernel of truth (as I described above) that most women pick certain qualities they value and look for the best man they can get in terms of those qualities.   And, as GWTF rightly stated, men do the same thing.   The only difference is that women are far more likely to change the qualities they value than men, over the course of their lifetime.

  7. 87

    My husband was able to hold his temper only so far and for many he was what he quoted so often.'”Yeah though I walk through the valley of death I shall fear no evil because I am the badest in that valley” He even took to comparing himself to Lucifer when he told us in 2001 that he would rather rule in his hell than agree to serve in our heaven That was after he left me with a broken ankle laying under the door he had just kicked in on top of me after I bolted him out to heart four young men out about pulling a job bid, They were laying from our porch to the street in Critacal condition. He also told me that morning that if I ever bolted him out again to get hurt the next time my date was with an undertaker and not some friend his father set me up with.MY husband is one of the few men I have seen that can cause fear with just one look, I have seen him use his training of two military   services and his martial arts training to turn people inside out when the crossed him   and tried to force him into their way of thinking. When The 2009 Vacation on the Orient express came up because we canceled his vacation on it and gave it to a man with 32 years less seniority He dislocated my shoulder and tried to strangle his father to death getting his passport back. All we were asking then was he wait 210 more days for the surprise we had arranged after the shutdown I have told him with just a little prior planning and cooperation he could have had at least a little of what he had earned in his life including a sex life, all he had to do was go along to get along for that. He just would never let any one decide for him when he was going to be allowed his way. Now there’s nothing of charity in him> I have stoped trying to get him to at least try and get along after he came home from three years of Rehab after MRSA caused his spinal cord to be crushed and partiually severed also in 2009.   I was Getting ready to go out to a diner event with his mother, father and his fathers best friend when he arrived home, That Evening he would not let me say yes to sex he took what he wanted from me then threw his fathers friend off the deck face first into the Drive after Telling me to call 911, That from that evening he was the final judge and arbiter in what he was allowed in his home and we could all drop dead. I was just trying to get him to pick a place to meet in four hours where everyone could think of ways to include him a little bit without causing any one to panic, HE said go ahead run into the ocean like lemmings And He would watch laughing. I was hurting after that, And He was still angry.


  8. 88
    No Name To Give

    You cannot give for the purpose of getting. Be a better judge of character, rather than trying to love bomb a woman into loving you. When Evan says women want nice guys with balls, he’s 1000% correct.   You cannot be respected by being a doormat; that doesn’t mean you need to be a jerk or an asshole. And the woman who wants a jerk has problems of her own. You know how men can smell a woman who’s desperate to tie him down? Women can do the same thing with men. I’m sure Karl R, Jeremy, and some other regular men on here know exactly how to be nice guys that command respect. They don’t do it by being jerks or “bad boys”.

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