Would You Rather Meet Out or Get Picked Up For a First Date?

Would You Rather Meet Out or Get Picked Up For a First Date?

This latest report from DatingAdvice.com doesn’t surprise me, but it does disappoint me a little.

Money quote: “Three out of four American men and women, regardless of race, sexual preference, marital status, with incomes between $25-125K, and over age 34 said they prefer meeting somewhere for a first date rather than be picked up.”


What can I say? I’m a traditionalist. Despite my advocacy of online dating, I’m a firm believer that dating used to be better. You’ve probably said it yourself: “I miss getting to know someone organically, through work or mutual friends. And then, as we get to know each other, we feel a spark, and he asks me out for a highly anticipated first date.” This, for most people, is organic dating. When you get to know a guy through repeated interactions, you feel comfortable enough to let him pick you up and take you out on a proper date. He gets to demonstrate his punctuality, thoughtfulness, chivalrousness – and maybe even get you back to your place after the date if he’s lucky. Now THAT’s a date.

When you get to know a guy through repeated interactions, you feel comfortable enough to let him pick you up and take you out on a proper date.

But because dating is fraught with failure – especially online dating – people have gone to the OTHER end of the spectrum. Instant gratification. Let’s meet as quickly as possibly for a no pressure, no cost, no intimacy date for forty-five minutes at a coffee shop to see if we have chemistry.

And then you wonder why dating sucks. You’re not dating the way that you really want to date!

You want to get dressed up, not meet right after work.
You want to do it on a Saturday night, when you don’t have to wake up early the next morning.
You want to do it with a few drinks, not a Jamba Juice.
You want to create the possibility of intimacy, which is pretty hard to achieve at 2:30pm in the plastic chairs outside Starbucks.

In short, by meeting out, you’ve taken all of the fun, excitement, chivalrousness, and romance out of dating. You’re going into the date, assuming failure and looking for an exit strategy, instead of spending a week building up a level of trust and rapport before your big date.

Which just goes to show: just because 73% of people agree on something doesn’t mean that they’re right.

In short, by meeting out, you’ve taken all of the fun, excitement, chivalrousness, and romance out of dating.

Oh, and one other preemptive strike: Please don’t make this post about safety. Fact is: the men who are most likely to become stalkers are the ones whom you’ve dated more than once. Which is to say that a crazy guy is not going to reveal he’s crazy until later on down the road, when he already has your address, has slept with you or is your boyfriend. If you actually have a personal story about how a guy forced his way into your house on a first date, I’m sincerely sorry. Otherwise, let’s keep this discussion about the actual virtues of meeting at a restaurant or getting picked up at your home. Thanks.

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  1. 1

    I’m all for being a gentleman and picking up and walking your date home, but I don’t see how that will make or break a date. If you’re into each other, you’re into each other whether you first laid eyes on each other at Starbucks or at her front door.

  2. 2

    Hi Evan, it’s my first time posting but I’ve been following your blog for a number of years. I really enjoy it, thank you.

    I’ve done a lot of online dating over the last 10 years (in between boyfriends). I think a date can still be very exciting (the anticipation of meeting them) and the man can be chivalrous (by picking up the tab and opening doors etc) even when you meet out in public. I do agree that a lot of online dates have a ‘drive-by’ feel to them. But if you really click with a guy then it doesn’t matter at all if he picked you up or not. That has been my experience.

    I know you asked not to comment on the safety factor but I don’t see how you can possibly avoid it. Just the idea of some strange guy picking me up in a car or coming to my house fills me with anxiety. I would never do it, not until we’ve had a few dates. I think it’s safe to say that women grow up being a lot more vigilant about their personal safety than men. It’s not a feeling you can really understand unless you’re a woman.

    1. 2.1

      He’s specifically talking about a first date with someone who you already know.

    2. 2.2

      Perfectly said.

  3. 3

    Evan, I have to side with Brigitte on that one. If I have never met a man in person, no matter how charming he seems over email and on the phone, how can I get into his car, and how can I give him directions to my home, where my children live? That would be straight out irresponsible of me. If we hit it off, there will be plenty of times for him to pick me up, but a “meet and greet” first date is not one of them. Sorry, you cannot say “don’t make it about safety”, when it in fact is first and foremost about safety.

    Plus, as a parent, I don’t want my children getting used to seeing a different guy pull up to my house every 2-3 days to pick me up. It weirds them out enough when I tell them I’ll be coming home late tonight, I’ve got a date. No need to have them see my dates, too.

    Actually, now that I think of it, there’s another thing, that applies both to men and women. What if the first date is a complete flop? What if it is so bad that you have to stand up and leave mid-date? Now as a man, how can you get up and leave if you still have to drive this woman back to her home? and as a woman, how can you get up and leave, if you don’t even have your car with you and this guy, whom you want to leave ASAP, is your ride?

    It basically all comes down to it being the first date, and the two people not really knowing each other. In this situation I believe it would be helpful to leave a few things to imagination, such as: where she lives, and what does the inside of his car look like.

    And yes, like Brigitte said, there are many ways to make a first date romantic without one person picking the other one up.

    1. 3.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I went on 300+ dates. When I used my own 2/2/2 rule, moving from email to the phone to the real life date, I could almost always build up enough trust and rapport to pick up my dates and drive them home.

      Since I had an extremely positive experience doing it this way (as did most of the women who went out with me), I recommend it to others. I’m recommending raising the bar for how you can have a great date: put in more time up front, build up trust, and create a better, more fun and trusting atmosphere. Your entire post is all about failure and fear.

      “What if he turns out to be a psycho who wants to stalk my children?” Okay. Let me know how many times that’s happened.
      “What if a new guy comes to my house every 3 days? What will my kids think?” Probably the same thing they think when you leave to go meet a guy for coffee. Mom’s going on another date.
      “What if a date is a flop and you have to leave mid-date?” Another worst case scenario that has never actually happened to me. Even when someone is weird and there’s no connection, I’ve never been tempted to abandon her.

      You extol the virtues of “leaving something to the imagination”, Goldie, but that’s pretty ridiculous. No one pines to wonder what the inside of a man’s car looks like, nor does he care what your living room looks like.

      I’m trying to teach trust, abundance, and emotional investment prior to going on a first date to make your first dates even better. You’re preaching fear, worst case scenarios and emergency exit strategies. It’s not that you’re “wrong” to do what you’re doing. I just think my way will lead to an overall better dating experience.

      1. 3.1.1

        Evan, as a divorced mum of a 13 year old daughter I completely go with Goldie here. Evan, I don’t know the age of your kids. Let me assure you that my safety is paramount in the mind of my 13 year old. Whilst on the one hand she is happy to see me happy (dating the same man for 3 whole weeks now 🙂 ) she is nowhere near interested – or happy – about meeting him or acknowledging his existence yet. Our first date 3 weeks ago was at a local bar. (and we both live not only in the same town… about 5 minutes away from each other!). It was at night, outside, romantic, fun and left us both wanting more. It was in fact, a great first date.

        I also agree with Goldie that if either of you wishes to cut that first date short, well… basically you’re both stuffed if you’re only in one car 🙂

        Evan, these are actually the realites of dating.. and I also agree with Marc who mentioned that if there is a spark, it’s going to be there whether you are “at Starbucks or her front door.”

        Well said Goldie

      2. 3.1.2

        How many times does a nut case stalk your children? Do you have children? All it takes is once. You don’t invite strangers into your home, and even if you do not have children to be concerned for – you don’t know this person and it is foolish to give your home address to someone you don’t know. Let alone open the door for them and invite them in.

        I met a guy at a starbucks who seemed perfectly normal on email and the phone. And the moment I layed eyes on him, I knew he was a skulking oddball. He immediately asked if I wanted to go to a nearby secluded beach / park with him. I declined. He then repeated the offer every 2 to 3 minutes, as if I might have forgot my answer by now. He was so odd I had us sit next to a table full of cops. When they had to take off for a call, he visibly relaxed, smiled, gave a sigh of relief and then said (can you guess?) let’s go to the beach now. I thanked him for meeting me and then left. I was very glad this nut case did not have my home address.

        Yeah, maybe he just wanted to go to the beach REALLY BAD. My take on it was do I want to go to a secluded area with a total stranger who can’t understand the word no. My house would be a nice private place too. He might have been happy skipping the beach had we met there.

        1. Goldie

          Aw c’mon Jackie, the man just loves long walks on the beach! Who can blame him for being a romantic? haha

          I actually do not have any scary stories of my own – I’ve been lucky so far in that I’ve been able to weed out the creeps at the message/email/phone stage. One exception was this year – I was in a rush and didn’t do the complete 2-2-2 with the guy – he set a date on a Sunday evening, at a coffee shop I’d never heard of. Two things that made me wonder were, one, why hadn’t I ever heard of a coffee shop that is one mile away from my home? and two, why is this coffee shop located on a street that is an office park, where every building on that street is an office building? So on Sunday morning, my dog and I went to check the place out. Sure enough, the coffee shop had been closed for years. It was in a plaza where all other businesses were closed on Sunday. In fact, every building on that street was closed on Sunday. I canceled the date right away. The man wasn’t even surprised that I canceled, or that I didn’t want to reschedule. I took a photo of the date location and have been showing it to my friends at parties for entertainment. Everyone who sees it is completely horrified. But like I said, that one was on me for not having gone through with the 2 messages/2 emails/2 phone calls process.

        2. Alli

          Well there ya go…point well made. Thanks for sharing Jackie! I was was creeped out just reading this. yikes.

      3. 3.1.3

        I agree, Evan, that your way promotes trust and trust is the foundation of better relationships. But the idea that we should put in the time upfront to be comfortable, when you consider putting in the time to be two dating site messages, two email messages, and two phone calls does not seem to me like really knowing much about a guy. There is so much I read from body language, and I just won’t trust a man until I’ve met him face to face. I’m so glad the 200 women you went out with were safe, and I bet you’re right 99% of the time that getting in a car with a man you’ve never met before is going to be fine, but in a country where 1 in 3 women is a survivor of dating violence, I’m not prepared to be wrong 1% of the time in order to have the chivalry of a guy ringing my doorbell promptly.

      4. 3.1.4

        Hi Evan, I’m usually a big fan but really surprised about your advise on allowing a man to pick up a woman on a first date from online. I don’t mean to sound condescending but I think if you were a woman you might feel differently. I have been dating for a year and a half online – divorced for 4 years. I am confident with an open heart and positive attitude. With that said, I like to get a feel for the person and a comfort level after meeting them in person twice before inviting them to my home to pick me up.
        Trust, abundance and emotional investment isn’t given instantly to someone it happens when a woman feels comfortable with her date. I think this is less about fear than plain old common sense.
        If that upsets the apple cart so drastically I don’t think the date that evening is someone I want to be with anyway.
        For a frame of reference my average time spent online and talking on the phone before a date seems to be around 2 – 3 weeks.

      5. 3.1.5
        Rachel Smith

        I’m a long time reader and a HUGE fan of you and your work. Your guidance has helped so many thousands of women and I sincerely appreciate your awesome perspectives. I agree with you on usually everything you say- but this is the only issue which I don’t see eye to eye with you and that I’m very passionate about- especially, haven been subject to aggression from males over the years which many females have also experienced.
        First point, on coffee date vs. restaurant totally on board with that! Romance has almost zero chance of happening at Starbucks. It ends of feeling like a job interview. Really like that amazing guy online?! Want to kill any chance of it developing past that date?! – You should 100% meet him at a coffee shop then.
        On the second point- why after doing the 2/2/2 rule wouldn’t you let a guy pick you up?
        Evan with all due respect, I strongly feel like the women on the message board are telling you how we feel and you are just invalidating what we say. The vast majority of the women are saying that we don’t feel comfortable and would never do- it even after building rapport over e-mail/phone with guy. I feel like you have already made up your mind and just want to get validation on your viewpoint but aren’t really open to hearing ours.
        I feel like you are taking a strong stance on the issue because you believe that the 2/2/2 rule not only makes for easier first dates but you also feel like it achieves a secondary goal of screening out weridos- so we should be totally open to a first date pickup.   The 2/2/2 rule achieves the first but doesn’t totally achieve the second- there are many guys who seem great on the phone but are not what you thought that they would be we you meet them.   I also think that you should phrase the question differently as well to get the real truth.   Us women aren’t going to have a lot of stories of guys stalking us after 2/2/2 and doing a pickup because most of us would never in a million years ever do it.  
        I believe instead you should be asking these questions to women:
        How many of you have done the 2/2/2 rule or something similar (talked/e-mailed before that date) OR even met the guy before your first official date (talked at the bar, talked at speed dating, etc.) and you felt good enough about the guy to do an official date.
        For those of you that have, how many have had *any one* of these happen in Dates #1-3:

        Found out that the guy completely lied about an essential fact- was married, wasn’t the Cop/Doctor/Fireman/Navy Seal he claimed to be, etc.
          The guy on one of dates was trying to push you into doing something you felt uncomfortable with. That even if you said clearly “No” or you physically tried to stopped he still pushed for what he wanted (i.e. giving him a kiss, feeling you up, insisting that you come into his apartment, insisting that he walk you back to your car located in a dark and isolate parking place, asking you to drive go to a location where you didn’t not feel comfortable with, etc).
        Insult you in some kind of way (i.e. calling you stupid, silly, dumb, etc.)
        After you stated you didn’t want to see him- he either was nasty to you over the phone, or sent an angry text/e-mail to you about it.
        Did something that gave you the creeps or indicate that something was “off” with him.

        Please let me know if even with pre-screening (e-mail and phone or meeting him) that “Yes- this has happened to   me in the first #1-3 dates” or “No it has never happened to me”. For those of you that said Yes – how did you feel about the guy either knowing or not knowing where you lived?
        Like you Evan, I live in LA and date a lot just like you did in the past (now using your tips 😉 ) .   I think for women like myself who date a lot, the majority of us have had at least one of the above events happened to them – even if they already did a 2/2/2 date screen or even actually met the guy beforehand.     I’m not trying call your baby ugly, but while 2/2/2 is a good first date chemistry builder, it is not a Swiss army knife and I feel it is not a complete enough screening method to screen out men that could potentially bring harm to a woman. It will catch a lot but not all men who you don’t want to associate with.
        For me, after doing the 2/2/2 rule or even after meeting and speaking with the guy beforehand I will not let have a guy pick me up until the 4th date.   The reason for this is many times when I’m dating a guy I’m on the fence about him. I definitely know by the end of Date #3 if me seeing him again is a go or no-go. So if I get asked on Date #4 and I don’t want to see him, I have no problem calling/texting him that I didn’t feel chemistry and best of luck. I don’t have to fear him coming to where I live for repercussions.   I even do it with guys I like a lot. Why would I do that with guys that I think are good men?… Because as every woman who has done online dating knows- some men can turn on you hard when you reject them.
        Think I’m overreacting on the rejection/revenge piece? Without a doubt, I believe that almost every woman on here doing online dating has gotten a message from a seemingly nice guy, who is not a match, with a decent profile and wrote back a nice, “Sorry I don’t think we are match but best of luck you!”.   In return that woman got a note back with some of the following- curses, called a b*tch, told that “you were ugly anyway”, “you think you’re so hot but you’re not” or some other “fill in the blank” uncalled for nasty response. My point is that a lot of guys can be nice to you online or even when you date- but turn on you like a scorpion when you state that you are no longer interested in them.
        This isn’t being a “fearful woman”- the increased danger and repercussions for women rejecting men are factual. Women know this but I feel like men “don’t get it” because they never have had to live with this fear. Let’s take two of the worst personality disorders to be in a relationship with- anti-social personality disorder (i.e. psyhco/sociopaths) and narcissistic personality disorder.
        Anti-Social Personality Disorder- 3% of Men and 1% of Women have it.
        Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)- 7.7%  of Men and 4.8% of Women have it.
        So Evan on the 300 dates you went on- statically about 17 of those women had a serious physiological issue of them (good thing they didn’t have your address). If you were a woman dating a man that mean 37 guys would have serious physiological issues!   This isn’t worst-case dating scenarios- these are statistical facts that you will encounter this people while dating.
        Let’s take a closer look at NPD — they would fly through 2/2/2 with flying colors.   People with NPD know that something is wrong with them and are very good at faking being “normal” in order to exist within society. They are masters of being charming upon first meeting them.   Rejecting NPD men- they can very quickly turn from charming to hostile and they much more hostile then NPD women are.
        “Narcissistic men hold overtly hostile, adversarial ideas about women… They have a problem with heterosexual women, because those are the people who might see through them, reject them and not give them the attention and adulation they feel they deserve…To the extent narcissistic men would get resistance, that would make them enraged.” Scott Keiller, a clinical psychologist at Kent State University Tuscarawas . If a woman goes on 100 dates, 8 of these guys will have NPD, all will pass the pre-screening process as they are known charmers- do you really want to reject one of them and for him to know where you live?!
        In response to another woman Evan you stated that, “Since I had an extremely positive experience doing it this way (as did most of the women who went out with me), I recommend it to others….Your entire post is all about failure and fear.” Three things bother me about this:
        1) You are an incredible guy so of course it ended well for each woman who dated you.   If a woman does that same thing with 100 guys (successful 2/2/2 and 1st date pickup) it’s not necessarily going to be the case for all of them.
        2) You were picking up the women and were in the position of power of “knowing the address”. If all 300 women picked you up instead and knew your address and some got very angry at you for dumping them, it probably would have been a different story. I don’t understand how it seems like you are saying to women-  “After 2/2/2 the vast majority of women who I picked up on a first date, who didn’t have my home address, had a great experience so it’s all good! So after a successful 2/2/2 please proceed to give out your home address for guys to pick you up because it worked for me- a man who has never ever had to give out my address after 2/2/2/ on a first date.” You simply don’t experience the world how we women experience it.
        3) As women dating men, guys with psychological issues are more apt to get angrier and more revengeful than a woman ever would.   So how can you tell us that we are “preaching fear” when you have and will never be in that position and almost 1 in 10 men have a psychological issues? A lot of women have had a real fear of a man doing something to us or hurting us out of spite- ask your significant other if she’s ever felt that from a man. You have never had that fear from a woman- so how can you possibly tell us that we are essentially overreacting because from your male view of the world it worked for you?
        I’m not trying to scare women from online dating because you can have the same trouble meeting a guy out in real life!   That’s why I would advise even if you meet the guy beforehand- don’t have him pick you up at your house until at least a 2-3 dates as it will give you time to check out his story, find out if everything he told you is really true and allow you to evaluate any early behavioral issues.   Also, it gives you a safety buffer that if you reject him early on you can have a lesser chance a physical reprisal from him.   The vast majority of guys are great, don’t get me wrong I love and adore men!  But it is the 1-2 crazy ones that can ruin your life and I much rather have a guys feel a little bummed about picking me up then to put myself in danger.   This isn’t to bash males- women can be crazy too but the crazy women are getting picked up and revealing their address and not the other way around.
        Every guy I talk to is more than happy to meet at a location for the first 2-3 dates. When I have them pick me up on the 4th- they are usually quite thrilled about it. I don’t think the pickup is make or break for a guy for dating a woman and waiting gives a woman time to do further evaluation. In conclusion, there is a lot of upside a very little downside for both parties to wait a couple of dates before having a guy pick a woman up at her home.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          My only response to this lengthy post is this. Your 4th date method – honestly – only gives you the illusion of comfort. Fact is, most guys who are stalkers/narcissists, etc, are not necessarily going to come out and act freaky on the first 3 dates. Chances are, you’ll like him, you’ll hook up with him, you’ll see some bad signs, you’ll break up with him and THEN you’ll see the destructive behavior. As such, you are entitled to do whatever you like, but the idea that your couple of extra dates is actually saving you from the psychos is nothing more than wishful thinking. If it makes you feel better, do it, but the bad apples usually act bad when they have something invested in a woman, not after 1-3 dates.

        2. beebee

          “the bad apples usually act bad when they have something invested in a woman, not after 1-3 dates”

          Evan, as a former criminal attorney and public defender, I will tell you this is categorically untrue. Rapists don’t look to form a LTR with a woman before attacking her. I don’t know what your bone of contention is with this but there is one thing I do agree with: “you are entitled to do whatever you like”

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          I’m not talking about rapists, Beebee, although I can understand why you are.

          I’m talking about the normal, run of the mill creep.

          Still, since you brought it up, the really hard part about stopping rape is that most of the time, it’s not perpetrated by psychos who hide out in bushes and randomly attack women. It’s an act of force, power and violence that occurs while two people are voluntarily conducting foreplay – and suddenly the man unilaterally decides that he doesn’t want to stop. Which is to say that – for the most part – any man, if he wants to, can overpower any woman at any time. That has NOTHING to do with having a guy pick you up at your house on Dates 1-3. These rapes occur when a woman decides she likes a guy enough to go back to his place or invite him back to her place. And an amoral rapist is just as likely to commit this heinous crime when you invite him home on the 7th date.

          That’s why – to me – it’s not that the fear is faulty, it’s that your solution is misplaced. Inviting a man over is an act of faith and trust. There’s no way to get it 100% right as Rachel pointed out. I personally don’t think that keeping your address secret for a couple of dates will lower any amount of rapes since it doesn’t really affect most date rapists operating procedures. Which is why I think the best course of action – in general – is to lead with trust rather than fear – at least it leads to better dates. I can completely understand why you disagree, however.

        4. beebee

          Fair enough Evan and thank you for your reply. But I’m sure you can see  the problem in advising women on one hand to be, as Rachel said, open and trusting beyond their confort zone, but then if something does happen to her, telling her that she should have never put herself in the situation or should have read  the man’s intentions better. More than one poster here has expressed this very contradiction.

          Can you  clarify what you mean by “normal, run of the mill creep.” A man who is not violent or physcially harmful but reacts negatively when the woman says she’s not interested in him?  


        5. Evan Marc Katz

          That’s about right. Most people don’t like rejection, take it personally, and have different ways of handling it. Many men will lash out verbally. Very few will act physically. And that’s one of the main differences between men and women – the physical part. That’s what women have to worry about that men don’t. But men get their share of crazy, too. Ever hear of “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”? Women don’t like rejection either. Hell, I’ve been stalked and had a woman repeatedly show up at my house. I’ve had another girlfriend send me anonymous physical hate mail after rejection. Another sent me anonymous insulting emails after rejection. But I never felt in danger and I’ve never worried about being raped, obviously. So I don’t think this is a simple problem to solve.

          I just think that those who are fearful of the worst case scenario with men (and treat all men as potential rapists, because technically, they are), end up hurting their own dating experience, thus my advice to lead with trust, and my very logical advice that you’re really not going to be able to protect yourself once you’ve invited a man inside your home to hook up – whether that’s date 1 or date 5.

          Thus, hiding your real address from a first date accomplishes very little except to illustrate that you’re afraid and mistrustful of men.

        6. beebee

          “Every guy I talk to is more than happy to meet at a location for the first 2-3 dates. When I have them pick me up on the 4th- they are usually quite thrilled about it. I don’t think the pickup is make or break for a guy for dating a woman and waiting gives a woman time to do further evaluation. In conclusion, there is a lot of upside a very little downside for both parties to wait a couple of dates before having a guy pick a woman up at her home.”

          I agree Rachel and I can’t see why some here are so offended by this.

        7. beebee

          “But men get their share of crazy, too.”


          theres a difference between fearful and cautious. I do not live in fear that my neighborhood is full of burglars waiting to pounce as soon as the sun goes down, but i still don’t sleep with my doors unlocked at night. Could someone still break in? Of course but i haven’t made it easier for them to do so by neglecting a simple detail that hurts no one in the long run.

          People can chose to live however they want. I will continue to apply a reasonable amount of caution to all areas of my life.

      6. 3.1.6
        Rachel Smith

        Hi Evan,

        Thanks so much to take the time to respond!!! Sorry for the lengthy post but this subject of men, women and safety gets me fired up! 🙂


        I understand what you are saying as a narcissist will keep up the appearance for   weeks before   you see anything coming (there are good books for questions to ask on the first few dates to help suss some of this out early – “How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved” is my go-to book). The point is not to say 100% of bad guys will be filtered out- but to come up with a process that moves the dating process along while helping women to filter   out the bad apples as much as possible.    Going through the dating process with a guy you should always be evaluating and filtering like a funnel.   You see the guy’s profile and filter if you want to engage based on what you see- that screens out says 20%, you do the 2/2/2 rule and that screens out another 20%. You go on 2-3 dates (which is a nice 2-3 weeks of time) you can filter out another 20% there.    I feel that by going from 2/2/2 to having a pickup on the first date you are skipping an essential opportunity for more evaluation time.


        All women have had first dates where the guy did something inappropriate even with screening- not having him pick you up saves you from a potential bad apple knowing where you live.   Just two weeks ago there was a guy I was going to date – I did the 2/2/2- awesome conversation! The morning of our date and he sent me a suggestive pic half naked in bed. He was a CEO that sounded perfectly normal and nice. Needless to say I didn’t go on the date and I’m so glad he didn’t have my address! I would never tell a woman to skip the 2/2/2 but to say to have to have 2-3 weeks of time to interact with him (is he respectful, does he send inappropriate pics, does he below up your phone with texts) and   find more about him (on our second date he gave me last name and he says he’s an LAPD cop can I verify that?) is super helpful for filtering out additional bad apples. Again not   *all* bad apples but providing another layer of filtering.   To say that that this step is a complete illusion and it doesn’t  provide any value whatsoever I feel is 100% not the case.   The decision to give out your address should be the most highly evaluated and filtered step with at least an in-person meeting! I would rather have a woman skip 2/2/2 rather than do a first date pickup- if the date bad at least she doesn’t have to worry about a weidro having her address. Women pay a much stiffer price for getting this wrong then men do.




  4. 4

    EMK, your post just shows how men and women might see this issue differently. No woman I personally know would ever put herself in the vulnerable position of being alone with a man she has never met before. That’s the whole reason for meeting in a public place. When I had self-defense training, the instructor told us to never ignore our gut feelings, and that most women who’d been victims of an assault admitted later that they’d had an uncomfortable feeling about the man, but ignored it. Women are taught to be nice and not offend anyone. Brigitte is correct in saying that you can’t understand how vulnerable a woman can feel if you are not a woman.

    However, on two occasions I let men who came to visit me from out of town pick me up for the first date. With one of the men, there was no chemistry, so despite the fact that we’d exchanged numerous emails and chatted on the phone twice, the greater “intimacy” did not ensure chemistry.

    I do agree that meeting for drinks and apps, brunch, or even a light dinner is better than a coffee date. If you both like each other, there will be plenty of dates in your future in which the two of you can be alone together.

  5. 5

    Definitely meet for a first date; esp. from online; it’s impossible to build a appreciable measure of trust, abundance, investment, etc., prior to ever meeting. It’s just a blind date after all. Conversely, I’ve ended a number of dating situations because she wouldn’t ride in my car or let me pick her up at date #2+.

    1. 5.1
      Shayna Krohn

      so your still single then?

  6. 6

    I mainly meet the guys i date irl ( rather than online). I’ve been picked up from my house and met up with them at the restarant. I haven’t had bad experiences with them picking me up but despite that, for first dates, I really prefer meeting out. I feel more free and comfortable that way. And I don’t do mid day, mid-week coffee dates either ( if it’s a day date it’s a brunch, with alcohol lol) so there is a romantic vibe even when we meet there.

  7. 7

    I think old-fashioned dates are a wonderful idea, Evan, once you’ve met the date in person and developed a comfort level. Knowing what we know about the world today and how easy it is to be less than honest online, would you seriously recommend your daughter have someone she met online and talked to on the phone come to your home to pick her up for a date?

    1. 7.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Yes, otherwise I wouldn’t be giving this advice. Please, dissenters, tell me a story about yourself or anyone you know who got picked up by a man at home who proceeded to stalk or assault you. I’m not saying that it can’t happen. I’m saying that it pretty much doesn’t happen. And living in fear is not a great policy in general. Cars crash every day, yet you get in the car, right? So until I’m confronted with the evidence that having a guy pull up in front of your house with his car leads to actual bad events, I’m going to say that your fears are much scarier than the reality. Oh, and I would bet that more women have been stalked by men who they’ve gone out with for months than by first dates. Does that mean you shouldn’t go out with a man for months or ever let him over? Of course not. This is all irrational fear. You think if you meet him out on a first date, but he comes home with you on the third date that everything’s fine. Nope. Guy is more likely to do something crazy when he has feelings for you than when you’re a stranger.

      1. 7.1.1

        “Oh, and I would bet that more women have been stalked by men who they’ve gone out with for months than by first dates.”

        YUP! I totally get being worried, especially for people with children. I would struggle with that majorly too. Here’s my take as someone who actually dated a Lifetime Movie Worthy Dude (Example: I was once getting juice out of the fridge and turned around to find him standing three inches from me. At which point he put a hand around my neck and said “You know it only takes 8 pounds of pressure to crush someone’s windpipe?” Carry on.), what Evan says is 100% correct. If lunatics acted like lunatics from the get-go, they would have very little success finding anyone to date them.

        In this dude’s case, The Crazy made it’s full-on debut at about the 7 month mark. Despite the whole experience (thankfully, nothing terrible happened), I can tell you that he is literally the only nutjob I have ever encountered and I am the only one of my friends that’s ever encountered one at all. In my case, I decided that living in fear wasn’t fair to me or anyone that wanted to date me. I went over what happened, gave real thought to any red flags I may have missed and went back to living my life. Dating is supposed to be fun, after all!

      2. 7.1.2

        I have three stalker stories, none of them men I ever agreed to date, one of whom repeatedly broke into my apartment. I have never been a victim of any crime, which I attribute to a mix of good luck and being a street-smart girl who pays attention when the hair on the back of her neck stands up. So overrule your gut because Evan said to if you wish – it’ll probably turn out fine – but I’m going to keep listening to my instincts.

        I DO know that automobile accidents are statistically a greater risk to me than dating violence. That’s why I have insurance, wear my seat belt, and drive defensively. I also know, statistically, that for American women of my age, homicide is my #2 risk of death and there’s a reason why the police start those investigations with the last man she dated.

      3. 7.1.3

        I am a single 34year old mom of one. I have to agree with Evan :::gasp:: Ok, I DO understand what the other women are saying, and yes.. I can agree it may be /feel easier to MEET for the first date . Then, the first time that both people lay eyes on eachother   , is actually controlled by both parties . Maybe that’s why so many women prefer meeting in public. They still are somewhat in control. From how great their makeup is before first meet.. To how “perfect their outfit” is “laying” against their skin.( ok.. Make sense? ) control.   We all like control , power, and all the rest.. I’m not speaking of that type of control. I am speaking of the control that women still will have, by meeting their date. They can leave if they decide to.. They can enter the meeting place exactly when THEY feel ready.. Vs the earlier than planned doorbell ring, or the kids trying to catch a glimpse then suddenly throw a tantrum when they see mommy dressed in something other than her yoga pants , or the early arriving date that throws one for a loop if she  still isn’t ready and early bird is now outside her door. Women feel thrown off, perhaps they are not prepared or ready for their” entrance “. Basically , it boils down to control. Yes, I know I sound like I’m bashing my team lol I’m not. I understand , because I’ve had those moments. If I’m being honest, I prefer having some control still during the date. Independently driving to a mutual meeting place helps me still feel somewhat in control . No, I don’t want to have the captains chair on this flight! I just prefer being somewhat in control ensuring the date starts and ends successfully . However, I agree w/Evan . What happened to how dating used to be. So, gain trust of course… Trust your intuition ladies and hopefully you’ve been talking for longer than this novel I just replied with. Let him know where you live if you feel this is someone you have exchanged enough messages/calls/ etc , that you can trust their agenda. Don’t enter a date as if you are about to go a few rounds with a UFC fighter. However,   Don’t go into the date knowing less about him than you do about your mailman.. Or meeting after less than a couple texts and whatever that dating site had posted of your date , Charlie Manson .

      4. 7.1.4

        I was assaulted in my home by a man I dated. It does happen.

      5. 7.1.5

        You said to share so here you go! I have had the great joy of being around wack jobs more than once. Both knowing where I lived and not. Both initially meeting online and off. The most recent: I actually met him at a local bar on a Saturday July 9, 2016. Not online. He seemed like a nice guy. My friend I was with thought so, too. We talked for a few hours then we left. Exchanged phone numbers. He called 2 days later, and every day after, and we talked on the phone for long periods of time. Set a day and time to meet up again the following Sunday, July 17, 2016. I must note at this time that he DID ask where I lived while we were on the phone, and I gave a general area but not street or address. He said he wanted to come over, more than once, and I told him no because I needed to clean my house. The more he talked about it, the more pressured I felt and it made me feel weird. Like why was he so determined to come to my house? He even got a bit miffed once when I siad no, not until I cleaned my house so maybe the next week he could come over. He said me not letting him come over “told him alot” in a negative way. I assured him it wasn’t personal just I wanted my house to be clean! So we met up on Sunday and, after spending the whole day into the night with him, I noticed things that just didn’t feel “right” to me which caused me to know this person wasn’t the “one” for me. The next morning he called, while I was at work, and started telling me how he didn’t like anything about me and the more he talked, the more he raised his voice and escalated in the things he was saying about me. Most of which were way off base and just plain strange and not true. Like he was making weird stuff up! After listening to him for a straight 15 minutes, I finally told him he was right that it wasnt working for me and I wished him the best and good luck. I said goodbye and hung up. He then proceeded to call me another 27 times! With each voice mail he left, because I never answered his calls again, he said more and more things he made up, that weren’t true, and were frankly just plain crazy and said meaner, nastier things. He also texted 5 times that day and night. The following 4 days he called and left voice mails an average of 4 times a day. I called the Sheriffs and filed a report….just in case. They couldn’t even believe he was doing all that just after knowing me for just one week! Even though he didn’t know my address, he knew the general area and he knew my truck. Crazy people will go to great measures to find what they want to if they so desire. But let me tell you this….I was VERY happy I went with my gut and didn’t tell him where I lived. I also had forgotten my night glasses after I met with him but I just didn’t want to go to my house to get them once he was with me. (I drove my truck to where we were going after we initially met up). On the 5th day of his abusive phone messages I texted him telling him the Sheriffs had advised me to tell him I filed a report and if he contacted me in any way, and continued to stalk and harrass me, I would proceed with further legal action. That was it. No more calls. UNTIL a bit over 4 weeks later. Then he started up with the same crap on August 23rd calling 7 times in a row and again on August 27th calling 3 times. I didn’t answer or reply in any way. If he calls again, which I’m hoping he is done now, I’ll have to see what I can do to get him to stop legally and see if the cops will find him as I don’t know where he lives. And yes, I have all the messages. Anyway…..so much for saying if someone is going to do crazy stuff it’ll happen down the road because that isn’t always true!!!! This person is for sure a psycho and I’m so dang happy I listened to my gut and didn’t give into him wanting to go to my house!!!!! I have taken people to my house before on the first meeting AFTER we met up and were together for 4 or more hours. There were no problems. Actually I think that most times you don’t know who’s going to act nuts so no matter how many times you meet, they can always act crazy whenever. I think if we really pay attention to our guts and instincts most the time that’s the best guide. But we DO need to be safe. Better that than sorry. I also know that lots of guys, if they are “normal” understand us being safe for at least a couple of meetings. In fact many have said to me that I shouldn’t have guys over right away and they think if a woman does that she’s stupid!!!!! It’s only the crazy ones who get upset if we don’t tell them our address or take them home right away.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          That’s a horrible story. It also validates my original point. Wack jobs are wack jobs. If you use my 2/2/2 rule for screening men, you’re less likely to end up on a date with a stalker, but even that’s imperfect. Fact is: 99% of men are not this way. The 1% of men who are will act like this whether you met them online or off, whether you gave him your email, phone number or address or not. Because they’re wack jobs. I think women SHOULD use their gut on a guy – and that includes letting a nice normal guy pick you up on a date if you feel comfortable talking to him in advance. Truth is: most wack jobs can fake being normal for a few dates, charm you, and then when you break up with them, THEN they reveal their crazy side – well AFTER they’ve already been to your home. So to me, this is about trusting your gut – not a fake hypervigilence that treats all men fearfully. It’s like TSA frisking an 80 year old Japanese woman at the airport. Are we really protecting ourselves with that one? No. We’re treating non-threatening people the same way we treat threatening people. If I talk to you for two hours on the phone in the week before the date, and you still insist on meeting me at Starbucks for 45 minutes in broad daylight with a friend sitting at an adjacent table, I can appreciate your position, but it sure won’t make me feel good as your date. Thanks for sharing your story. Hope you can see how trustworthy men can get upset at being mistrusted, too. Just as you’d be upset if you got frisked every day you left work to ensure you weren’t stealing office supplies. No one likes to be mistrusted.

      6. 7.1.6

        I’m currently in a situation where, after applying the 2/2/2 rule, decided I didn’t want to meet the guy and he WILL NOT leave me alone. After he blew up my inbox on the dating site, I blocked him. When he blew up my phone with texts and phone calls, I blocked him. And this morning I had a friend request from him on Facebook. I don’t know what he doesn’t get about “I don’t think we’re a good match.”

        I’m not worried about the equivalent of a car crash, I’m worried about being sexually assaulted. One in four women in North America experience sexual assault at least once in their lives. I’m one of them. I was 14-years-old and not engaged in anything remotely like fore-play with the guy who assaulted me (that characterization of rape, by the way, makes me feel a little bit sick – a bit too close to “she was asking for it” for me).

      7. 7.1.7

        Wow that is such bullshit, no offence, assault and rape does happen in online dating and you have you be careful.

        “This type of online “catfishing” as it’s known, is not uncommon.” -Winniped police officer

        Reports of Rape Linked to Online Dating Rise 450 Percent in Five Years

        Doing stuff like that is a little dangerous.

      8. 7.1.8

        Eating seafood, crossing the street, going outside–yes, everything is dangerous, but it is impossible to avoid everything. Cars do crash every day. But we function in a society where in many areas not having a car to get around is not an option. Uber or ride sharing exist of course, but using that every single time whenever you want to go anywhere is expensive and completely impractical. You have no choice but to do some of these dangerous activities.

        Getting in someone else’s car though is far more avoidable. That’s a choice about my safety I can actually make. And it’s one I make knowing that the odds are on my side. This guy is 99.9% not going to rape or stalk me or whatever. But when those experiences are so horrible or even possibly lethal, yeah, I’m going to err on the side of caution. Getting in a strange man’s car could be the last mistake I ever make.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          When is he no longer a strange man? Date 3?

          You are aware that most assaults don’t happen with strangers and that bad men can wait three dates to get you to let down your guard.

          My point is not that safety isn’t a concern, but rather that this all provides the illusion of safety. You will weed out 1 or 2 freaks but can’t do much about everyone else. It’s like making people take off their shoes at TSA. Have there been any shoe bombers? No. Does that really keep us safe? Ummm…

  8. 8

    I can understand where Evan is coming from, but a rule of thumb I meet my first online dates at a location. I definitely agree with putting some heart into it by at least willing to meet for dinner on a Saturday where you can let your hair down a bit.

  9. 9

    Evan I took your advice and stopped going on any coffee dates They are doomed.

    Ive traded a few emails and then speak over phone first as you recommend and my intuition is seldom wrong from this screening.
    I love getting a few drinks and an appetizer but I drive there because I want leaving to be easy . Some of the best time Ive had to get to know a guy is on a really long walk.

  10. 10

    I’m so tired of hearing women talk about safety to justify why they’re not willing to date online, let a man pick her up, etc. It’s as if most men were rapists and killers in their mind. I have a friend who is 56 years old and will not date online because “what if I meet a serial killer.” Please. I’m almost 32, I have had a lot of dating experience (both online and off), and I don’t recall one single man ever attempting to harm me physically or emotionally. I have let men pick me up at my place, and have gotten in their car after a dinner date. I even traveled to foreign countries to meet with men whom I’d developed an online relationship with (*gasp!*). COULD it happen? Like Evan said, yes it could happen, just like a deadly car crash could happen too. But I knew I had nothing to fear, and I feared nothing.

    Personally, if I was a man, I can’t imagine I’d be very attracted to a woman who lives out of fear, who believes men are dangerous, who believes she needs to protect herself from the mean evil men out there. Seriously, let a man be a man. Now, I’m not saying women should get in the car with any man who winks at her on Match. But after a few back and forth emails and phone calls, one would hope you have built enough trust and rapport to let the man do what he’s supposed to do – pick you up and show you a good time.

    I love Lifetime movies, but life is not a Lifetime movie. It’s funny, because as much as women dislike being considered the weaker sex, they immediately resort to this argument to justify their fears of men. “we’re vulnerable, etc…” Interesting…

    1. 10.1

      Movies like this certainly don’t help……LOL

    2. 10.2

      Alexandra! Thankyou for standing up against giving in to all the fear-based info
      nowadays. Yes, yes, yes, it is out there, but how often do we hear about all the
      nice men, who politely date women? It is not, what sells news, yet!!

      I have been hitchhiking a lot, and met helpful people and some say: “How dare you?”
      I answer: ” It is only humans!”
      I am afraid of dating, because I am afraid to open my heart to another person,
      but it is something I can work on. I am not afraid of men, I love them, they are
      just not women, but it does not make them someones to fear.

    3. 10.3

      I couldn’t have said it better myself! Well put and I agree!

    4. 10.4

      Thank you Alexandra! I couldn’t agree more.

      I live in South Africa, which has one of the highest crime rates (particularly rape rates) in the world, and I have been picked up and got in a car with guys on a first date, and even occasionally let them come into my house.

      I rely completely on my intuition in dating, rather than a fear-based mentality, and my intuition has never let me down.

      If you are really paying attention, you can pick up any kind of “off” or creepy vibe before meeting someone.

      It really annoys me how people always cite Investigation Discovery or Lifetime movies as a reason not to trust people you meet online. As if those are reliable, representative sources on which to base your life decisions.

      1. 10.4.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        That’s right, Clare. Women SHOULD be very conscious of their safety, but your choices should be based on how you feel when you communicate with him – via dating site, email, phone, and text (but especially phone). If you feel comfortable, act on it. If you feel uncomfortable, don’t go out with him at all. Made up rules about X dates until he’s allowed to know your real name, number or address are just that – made up rules – which may make you feel safer, but don’t actually prevent a bad actor from acting badly on Date 4 or whatever.

  11. 11

    I honestly do not understand what the big deal is. It’s not like men are begging us to let them pick us up for a first date, and we’re all “Noooo, I’m scaaaared”. On a few occasions, I did ride with the man on my first date with him (including the one that later became by boyfriend), after he picked me up in a public place. On a very rare occasion (once, if memory serves me) a man picked me up at my house for a first date. But most of the time, guys want to meet on neutral territory as much as we do! They, too, have had their share of crazy, and don’t want to take any chances with a female stranger in their car; and another thing, they don’t want to drive too far out of their way to meet with someone they haven’t yet seen in person. Aren’t we supposed to be reactive and not proactive? Aren’t we supposed to let the man choose the place to meet? Well, nine times out of ten, the man chooses to meet somewhere that’s not my home. Who am I to tell him he’s wrong?

    And while we’re at it, coffee dates work best for me. Of course, by coffee date I do not mean “swing by a nearby Starbucks at lunch”, more like “meet at a nice comfy coffee house in a cool neighborhood in the evening”. You can sit in a corner and chat for hours without the waiter hovering over you, because the restaurant needs to turn the tables and you’ve been there too long; the man doesn’t have to empty his bank account buying you your meal; it’s dark and intimate, the atmosphere is very cool and urban, what’s not to like?

    I am a lightweight when it comes to drinks. No way can I get a few drinks and drive. Even one beer is pushing it. Coffee is better.

  12. 12

    Ok Evan – I’ve got an example. For starters, I’m a professional actor so I have an online presence, if someone wants to find me they can. That’s not the issue. However, I went out with a guy a couple of years ago. He got wasted. He was my ride home. I wasn’t in an area where I could grab a bus home, a cab would have cost me $60+ – which I flat out couldn’t afford. I sat in a restaurant entertaining a drunk man for two hours while trying to find a friend who could come pick me up. I couldn’t have known from 2/2/2 that he had a problem with alcohol. I could have met him at the restaurant and driven myself home when he turned out to be Mr. Not Right. Not romantic. Not worth it. Be a gentleman. Meet me someplace nice but casual the first time, prove that you are safe and thoughtful of what are very legitimate fears. That’s romantic. That’s chivalrous.

    1. 12.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Good example, Nikki. A rare one, but a valid one. I wouldn’t let it stop me from future dates, but if you choose to, that’s your decision. All I know is that if I spoke to you on the phone for a week, felt a connection, built up trust, asked for your address and you told me that you didn’t trust me, I’d feel like shit. Furthermore, I’d feel that you were so fearful and jaded that you can’t even tell a good guy when he’s spent a week getting to know you. That’s the consequences – from a male perspective – of treating trustworthy men as if they’re untrustworthy.

      1. 12.1.1

        You Evan, you have a great point – and I wonder if there is also a cultural component here … you’re an East Coast guy. I live on the West Coast and most often date guys who grew up here or in the Midwest. I think I’m going to do an informal “poll.” I have a 4th date with a guy on Sunday. If there’s a natural opportunity ‘m going to ask if he has a strong opinion about it. And next time I’m going out with a guy on a third or 4th or … date, if it feels appropriate I’m going to ask.

        In the meantime, I’m going to keep gently steering first dates where we meet each other somewhere or he picks me up and we go someplace close to where I live.

        Personally, I love it when a guy says “Hey, I was thinking we could go for drinks on Thursday night, someplace not too loud with a great wine list. Is there a place that you really love to go or that you’ve been dying to try?” (This was what the guy I’m going out with Sunday asked the first time we went out. I chose a wine bar close to my house where I know the bartenders.)

        …of course, one of the things I’m learning from you is that I don’t really enjoy men who are all alpha all the time. I like a guy who knows what he wants and knows how and when to lean into his beta male in order to get it. Such a turn on.

        Keep you posted …

  13. 13

    Goldie @11
    “I honestly do not understand what the big deal is. It’s not like men are begging us to let them pick us up for a first date, and we’re all “Noooo, I’m scaaaared”.

    Totally agreed. Not sure why Evan is bringing up an issue that 99% of dating men and women agree upon- meeting out at on a first date. Never heard dissent on this one before so not sure why this is even a topic. Guys are OK with it, women are OK with it, and its the social norm.

    Goldie says:
    “And while we’re at it, coffee dates work best for me. Of course, by coffee date I do not mean “swing by a nearby Starbucks at lunch”, more like “meet at a nice comfy coffee house in a cool neighborhood in the evening”. You can sit in a corner and chat for hours without the waiter hovering over you,”

    Agree with you again. Some of my best first dates have been at a great coffee/dessert café near where I live. Everyone always raves about it. If one of those first dates turns into a relationship, then we frequent that same place because it is such a cool place. There are couches you sit on which is even cozier and more romantic than a bar. Maybe the people who complain about coffee dates are going to crappy places. They should be blaming the venue, not the concept .If done right, it is just fine.

    1. 13.1

      Yes, there are some really cool one of a kind coffee houses that aren’t like StarBucks. They have cozy couches, artwork from local artists on the walls, and sometimes live acoustic music. And some nice snacks. There is one such place in our down town area, close to a nice park, and the libarary, which usually has free art exhibits as well, plus it’s a cool area to walk around afterwards.

  14. 14

    So here’s another perspective:

    If the date’s not going well, I want the same power to end it that the guy has.

    If the guy picks me up, and he decides along the line that he doesn’t like me or he’s wasting his time or even that he’s just got a headache, he can end the date and leave anytime. Maybe he’d be an asshole for doing it, but he can still do it.

    I can’t. Even if the date’s turned into a complete and total nightmare, I have to play nice and make the guy happy and wait until HE’S ready to go home, or else I won’t get a ride home. (Unless I have a bucket of money for a cab, an unoccupied friend available to pick me up, or happen to live in one of the handful of areas of the US where public transit is worth a damn.)

    Nothing romantic or relaxing about any of that.

    1. 14.1

      Yes, that’s it exactly! Even if you override the fact that 99.0% are trained from the time we could walk that you ‘don’t get into a car with a stranger’, meeting a person is still the gold standard for determining connection and attraction with a person you’ve originally met online.

      I recently had a fabulous couple of calls with a guy but when we met I knew pretty quickly that he was not a guy I would ever want to date. I was very happy that when I had had enough I had the power to say ‘It was lovely to meet you etc.’ and head on my way.

      Like most women, I love getting picked up for a ‘real date’ but there is no way I’m putting all my options in the hands of a guy I’ve never met before.

  15. 15

    EMK wrote:


    Actually, something similar happened to me recently as happened to Nikki (#12), with a man getting drunk on our first meeting, so I was glad to have my own car. Another man I met once was a bit physically pushy with me, trying to kiss me beyond what I felt comfortable with. While I didn’t feel like he was going to assault me, I’m also glad I wasn’t alone in a car with him.

    Since 3 out of 4 American women of all ages don’t let men pick them up for first meetings either, concern for personal safety seems like the norm. Isn’t a woman going to have a better time on a date if she feels more in control of her own time and safety? Sure, the likelihood of a man being dangerous is very small, but as my mother always told me, “Better safe than sorry”. And maybe a woman just wants to be able to leave when she wants to leave, rather than being dependent on the man for transportation, especially if she ends up not feeling it for him (or he drinks too much, etc.). I think that’s actually more empowering, not weaker.

    As for a man feeling insulted, the vast majority of men I’ve talked to have been understanding and aware of how a woman might feel about this issue. They almost all ask if I’d like to meet them, not if they can pick me up for first meetings.

    1. 15.1

      Most of the men I’ve met online have been very accepting of me being cautious, and told me they wanted me to be comfortable. In other words, my feelings & comfort level were important enough to consider. That is reassuring and helps to build trust.

      Some women are so conditioned to be polite and avoid offending others that they end up sacrificing their own safety. I hope no one who reads this decides to ignore their gut feelings in order to score points on a first date.

  16. 16

    Sorry, but my first responsibility is to my personal safety. I’m not going to worry overly much about hurting the feelings of some guy who feels that me not being willing to hop in his car ruins the magic for him. There are just too many ways it could go wrong. I see exactly zero downside to arriving at a first date under my own steam.

    And I’m certainly not going to subject myself to the victim-blaming that would happen if I did get that ride, and something did go terribly wrong.

    Perhaps this is one of those areas where you simply have to be a woman to understand the culture of fear that we live in. When men stop assaulting women, I’ll start hopping in men’s cars.

  17. 17

    On a weekday, I am fine with meeting after work, since I am already in Manhattan. Over the weekends, I prefer to be picked up. In fact, if the guy doesn’t have a car, and I have to take the subway or something to meet him, I am not sure how likely I am to go on that date to begin with.

    I’ve had many dates even come up to my apt to pick me up, not just wait for me outside in the car.

    Aside from that, I agree with John in that I don’t understand why this is even a topic. It’s a personal preference and a non-issue.

  18. 18

    Wow – Leave for a little bit and the place gets a make-over. Looks great!

    Here is a story: Guy picked me up at my place for a first date. We were going to go for dinner. Once in the car, he asked if we could stop by his place, he forgot his wallet. We do. The next thing I know, he is on top of my trying to take off my pants, telling me “this will help me relax:”

    I’m fighting to get up and my knee hit his groin. He rolled off of me and I ran out of his apartment. And then I walked home. It didn’t occur to me to call someone, maybe shock.

    I know what you are going to say – this could have happened at any time on a different date. My point is that although it rarely happens, rarely =/= never.

    1. 18.1

      This, people, is the perfect example of a PICKUP ARTIST. Taking a woman back to his place “for a minute” because he ostensibly “forgot” something and needs to run inside, and oh, “why don’t you come in for a sec?” is a key pickup artist move. In her case, Kristyn should have insisted (nicely) upon staying put in the car while he went inside to retrieve whatever he “forgot”. Or if she allowed herself to be cajoled into going in, she should have just stayed by the door. Would have been much easier to make a quick getaway outside.

  19. 19

    Evan, I have to agree with you. I’ve been saying this for a while. I’m 47 and have been single most of my life, but have gone through periods where I just didn’t date. But when I have done the online dating thing, it always proved to be frustrating in how people rushed you get to a quick Starbucks meeting and then made a snap decision about chemistry in a short period of time. My feeling is that sometimes chemistry can take a little time to percolate, and I’m not talking about a long time, just more than a rushed coffee date which is anything other than a date.

    I’ve truly missed how dating used to be where you get picked up at home and have a nice date on Friday or Saturday night and get to have ~time~ for that chemistry to develop and percolate and find out what kind of fun you can have on a date with this man (and I’m not referring to the bedroom). I always looked forward to anticipating that first kiss at the end of the evening. Really, I’ve never had a bad experience that way. While I have had some dates with guys that I chose not to see again, or vice versa, all in all, I would still prefer to spend a few hours on a date giving someone a chance (and getting one in return) than being rushed to judgment too quickly.

    I find it kind of sad, really, that this had gone by the wayside. I recently had an encounter with a guy who contacted me via email from a meetup group. We corresponded for a few weeks while he was out of town and I looked forward to his returning to town so that we could meet in person. Our correspondence progressed along so much that he stated he wanted to take me to a nice romantic dinner when he returned to town. When I thought about how our first date would ensue, the societal pressure to be “smart” and meet him at a restaurant or something seemed like a total slap in the face to him and the progress we’d made getting to know each other and the feelings that had developed. It felt rude and distrustful to have to say “I’ll meet you there.” I totally get where you are coming from, Evan! Your post is as if you’ve been reading my mind. (As a sidebar, that relationship fell apart before it even began and we never met in person. But, alas, I would still feel the say way the next time around.)

  20. 20

    If a guy feels insulted because I don’t feel comfortable having him pick me up at my home on the first date, then all I have to say is, “Tough titty said the cat to the kitty.” I don’t feel that one is being paranoid if they choose to err on the side of caution. Besides, first dates do not have to take place in a boring coffeeshop. There’s a dating website called, “How About We, ” in which people get together to partake in fun activities of mutual interest. It beats meeting at a coffee shop, and it enables both parties to get to know each other in a safe and pressure free environment.

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