Why You’re Still Single – in 2336 Words

Read this. Read every word of it.

Noted blogger, Moxie, has written a powerful message to women in their late 30's: take responsibility for your life.

I'd be inclined to publish highlights but that wouldn't do this piece its proper justice.

So here, in its entirety, I offer you a very challenging post about women, written by a very intelligent woman. Feel free to post whether you agree or disagree with her assessment.

And while I might nitpick with a line or two, on the whole, I think Moxie knocked it out of the park.

Name: Betty | Location: New York , NY |Question: I am not sure if you have asked/answered this question before but I was wondering if you had any advice where a single woman in her late thirties could meet marriage/family minded men who are around my age? I have never been interested in dating men much older than me (frankly I don't have a single girlfriend, married or single, who is so inclined). However, I have noticed over the past 5 years that the men who approach me have been getting exponentially older (seriously, I was recently contacted online by a 70 year old man - older than my father). I really want a relationship similar to all those in my family and social circle have - no more than a 2-3 year age difference. Do I really have to give this up? Am I going to have to settle for a man 10-20 years older than me and have a lackluster sex/love life? That just seems abnormal to me. Surely there must be men who come from a similar background (i.e. that spouses should be from the same generation so that the relationship will succeed for the long term). Any thoughts would be appreciated.

No, you don't have to give that up. It's just going to require more effort on your part. It's also going to require that you ask yourself why, at 38, you're still single. But we'll get to that in a bit.

First, learn to accept the reality that a 38-40 year old marriage minded man is going to want someone a good 5-7 years younger than him if he wants kids. Maybe 10 years if he's in his early 40's. A 40-45 year old man who's not interested in having children is going to want a woman who isn't dead set on having kids. Most will assume that a 38 year old woman will want kids. And soon. The age we are at (35-40) is probably the toughest of all. In a man's mind, we're on the cusp between wanting kids and not wanting kids. A lot of men make this assumption on their own without ever asking us. Why? They have more options than we do and don't have to ask us.

Online dating for women 35-45 is a joke. Do not rely on online dating in any way. I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to being contacted by people you would never in a million years consider dating. The unkempt, unpolished guys. The husky, balding guys. The sleazy guys. The guys who wink or e-mail me within minutes of logging on. They're contacting me because they think "She's 38 and using online dating so she must be somewhat anxious or desperate and will give me a second glance." If they're not thinking that way, then they are men so lacking in self-awareness that you wouldn't want to date them anyway. Of course, one or two of them are genuinely nice guys whom you might share a connection, but guilt by association screws them.

I was having a conversation with Evan Marc Katz recently. If you don't know who he is, he's a well known dating/relationship expert that started e-Cyrano, an online dating profile writing company. He's also written a book called "Why You're Still Single." We talked about how frustrating it is for women (and I'm sure men) to only get contacted by people that they would never in a million years consider dating. Evan tried to tell me that women should just delete those e-mails and not give them a second thought. I agreed with that, but also told him that the reason why hearing from only those people is frustrating is that it makes you wonder what it is about you that is attracting only these people. It also serves as a reminder of what's out there and...as I've said before....as you get older it becomes slim pickins. Having a reminder of those slim pickins in your in-box every day isn't fun and can condition someone to believe that there truly is "no one" out there for them. What else is disheartening is for every one good date you might have, you end up having 3-5 awful ones. For 1 person that meets your expectations there are 3-5 that don't. And, if you meet those "ones" online, then it's very likely that they are someone else's "one great date" as well due to the whole "kid in a candy store" mentality that online dating encourages. So use online dating in conjunction with 2-3 other ways to meet someone. But do not make it your only means of networking. Take a home improvement class or a cooking class or a writing class. Got to Barnes & Noble. Go to the gym. Join a special interest group. Definitely take advantage of the stand-bys but add some new ones, too. Move outside your comfort zone. Singles/social networking events are great but, like online dating, you shouldn't rely on them to meet new people. Go to a few, like two or three, then try something different. Switch it up or do all these things in conjunction with each other. And always take advantage of every opportunity. Really work on being approachable in any situation. Walk with your head up, make eye contact, smile....be it at the deli, on the subway, at church...where ever. You have to be open to meeting someone at all times, not just in situations designed to encourage socializing. It's very easy to become closed off, especially living in a big city. Don't let that happen.

You'll also have to throw away a lot of those silly criteria that we tend to apply to future mates.

Not interested in dating someone divorced? Get over it. We're in our late 30's. Many of the people in our age range are divorced.

Don't want someone with kids? Again, let that slide a bit, since many singles our age are divorced.

Ladies - Stop going to bars to meet guys. Just forget it. Guys in bars are looking for the 25-32 year old gal. Or they're looking for desperate women who will be easy to get in to bed. Go to bars to socialize, to hang out, to de-stress. But don't go to a bar with the specific intent of meeting a man. Especially if you're over 35.

Ladies - Stop going out in groups of 3 or more single friends. Men aren't crazy about approaching a group of women. The fear of rejection is bad enough when contemplating your approach of just one woman. But three?

Choose who you socialize with carefully. If you and a friend are both burnt on the dating scene, then hang out with someone who is in a relationship or who is married. As much as you think that you can hide your frustration or disillusionment when you're out, you can't. It comes out in off-the-cuff comments, facial expressions and the tone in your voice. Surround yourself with positivity as much as you can so that their attitude rubs off on you. Nothing turns someone off faster than bitterness.

Learn when to walk away. Staying in a situation too long only to end up not getting/not being asked for a number or being rejected will only weaken your ego/self-esteem. Read the signs, pay attention to how the other person reacts to you. If you have to ask yourself , "Are they interested?" then they're probably not. Stop trying to make them interested in you.

Ask yourself the tough questions. 38 and still single? Too focused on your career? Dating the wrong people? Ignoring issues that are getting in the way of being happy and secure? There's a reason why you're 38 and single. Figure it out and deal with it. Are you batting out of your league? Insisting on going for people that you think you deserve but who have no interest in you? Negative? There is a reason and it's more than "I'm just picky" or "I've been too busy to date." I haven't met one person over the age of 35 who's still single who wasn't that way for a serious reason. And it's usually one of these: We want it all right now. We want to know where we stand. We want to know what's what right now. We aren't willing to sit back and allow things to unfold at a natural pace. We assume that if someone doesn't feel the same way we do when we do then they aren't right for us. We grow resentful of those people who do have an easier time meeting someone and that resentment morphs in to bitterness and negativity. All of that stuff comes from a place of fear. A fear that we will never meet anyone, that we will end up alone. A fear that we will be hurt or left or abandoned or that we won't be in control of the situation. If you continue to feed in to that fear you will end up alone. Or, worse, you'll settle.

Sometimes you just have to keep your mouth shut and listen. This one has a double meaning. The first refers to people who, when they meet someone new, brag or challenge people instead of saying something truly of value and listening. Learn the difference between selling yourself and pimping yourself out. Then, take a breath, close your mouth and listen. Ask more questions but don't interview someone. If you pay close enough attention to what someone says then you'll have plenty of things to ask. But if you're listening just to recognize a buzzword that will allow you to go off on a tangent, expect that person to walk away pretty quickly. Also listen to the "voices" that come from within. Voices that come in the form of feelings and reactions. What are you really feeling? 9 times out of 10, it's fear. So many times I've met men that were really great and I dismissed them. I convinced myself that I wasn't attracted to them but really I was just afraid. "They're way too serious for me" I thought. "They're too anxious for a girlfriend." Looking back, there was nothing wrong with them. The problem was with me. I was scared. Scared they would find out I wasn't as together as they were. Scared they'd leave me first. Scared that they would figure out who I really was. I wanted everything laid out for me. I wanted to know what to expect and when. I didn't want to feel that anxiety over whether they'd call or what their lack of response meant. All of that is rooted in fear.

Face the realities head on and become as self-aware as possible. Being over 35 and living in Manhattan (or any other major metropolitan city) is tough. Most women I encounter who are over 35 and single (and by single I mean "never married") are single because they are completely unaware of the impression they make (anxious/self-righteous/negative/entitled) or because they are still sticking to that same laundry list of criteria that they wrote and laminated at 25. After a certain point, it's time to get realistic. You're competing with women younger, possibly thinner and probably making just as much money as you are and are equally successful. Either step up or move on to another league. And by step up I mean do the work you need to do to compete. That could be simply reorganizing priorities to dropping 10 pounds, to going in to therapy, to taking up yoga to learn how to relax. Is there something about you physically or personality-wise that might be turning men off? Because that might be it. Ask friends for a brutally honest assessment. Better yet, ask someone who isn't that close to you. You're more likely to get the truth. Forewarned is forearmed. Those who know that something is coming are better prepared to face it than those who do not know.

Would it be so bad to take a look at guys that maybe aren't, at first glance, your "type?" Or are you one of those women who thinks that, by doing so, you'd be "settling?"

Get an attitude adjustment. People who tell themselves that there is "no one" out there for them or who focus on how they don't have someone will continue to have bad luck in the love department. You literally have to stop yourself from saying things like "Every women/man" is this or that. You have to de-program yourself from thinking negatively. You're basically setting yourself up to fail when you focus on what you don't have or on people that aren't interested in you. (Remember the other suggestion I made up thread - Learn when to walk away.) The more focus you put on what you are lacking, the more power you give to that idea and the more prevalent it becomes. It's about thinking "as if." In January, I joined Dating Dummy's Blog Wide Workout group. I cut out pictures of Jessica Biehl and hung them over my desk on my bulletin board. Every day, I look at those pictures every morning and am reminded of what is possible. That motivates me to go to the gym. I also hung pictures of my ideal guys - Edward Norton and Matthew Rhys. Then, and I can't believe I'm admitting to this but fuck it, I planned my wedding down to the last detail. I got pricing from the hotel for the open bar and food, wrote the guest list (only 50 people from my side, immediate family only and friends from high school/college/life) called the church I sometimes go to and booked a tentative date, (last weekend of April, 2008) and called my uncle and told him to save the date. Crazy? Maybe. But I'm now almost 20 pounds lighter and my sex/love life has taken a positive turn in the last two months. (Of course, it's still in the early stages.) Every press mention my business has received has been clipped and hung on my bulletin board. I made a slide show of my affirmations, using pictures of everything from the type of body I want to have to piles of money to a clip of someone reading their credit rating to the new apartment I want to have. I view it every morning and every night. (Go to www.RockYou.com to make your own slide show.) My business has tripled in the past 6 months. The money flows in and, like with most businesses, flows right back out. But it's there and the amount deposited into my business account gets larger each month. It's all about changing your thought process. Tell yourself that it will happen and it will happen. But counting the reasons why fate is against you and you're creating a big wall that will be very hard to scale.

You have the ability to change your life and have the things you want. It all starts with you. You just have to truly want to change it. Stop focusing on what doesn't work and start focusing on what does work.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Vicki

    Online dating for 35+ y/o women can work (kind of sort of, if online dating ever works, which so far it hasn’t really, for me, and I’ve been doing it since I turned 30), you just have to adjust your strategy a little bit.
    1. Old guys will contact you if you don’t specifically alter your age range to weed them out. I now actually title my match.com ad with “seeking younger man” and set my age range from 18 to 38. Would I actually date an 18 y/o? I don’t know. But, most of the guys who contact me now are in their early 30s. Success!
    2. You have to log on every day. this keeps your profile at the top of search lists when guys get online to browse. It shows you are still looking. If you left your ad up 3 months ago and haven’t logged in since, they might assume you are no longer interested, already seeing someone, or maybe they just didn’t make it that far down the search list (you might no be on page one any more). You want to be at the top of page 1! (I have to admit, I don’t do this as religiously as I should, however.)

    1. 1.1
      Buff Stud

      I saw somewhere that nearly 40% of dating site surfers are married men… Sad.
       

      1. 1.1.1
        mikeh71

        Buff Stud: Really I would love to read that source. The reality now is that more women cheat them men because the singles ratio under 40 Male /Female favors women by 120 single men to 100 single women this alone shows that USA women have more dating options then men.
        So women quit complaining about already because a filled mail box is much better then an empty one. 2 sources for your interest:
        1. this shows that Online dating is a waste of time for most men: http://www.zdnet.com/article/ten-fake-profiles-one-okcupid-experiment-okcupid-on-trial/
        2. Women are more likely to cheat: http://www.yourtango.com/201172881/women-more-likely-cheat-men-heres-why
        Again, men have a more difficult time then women with dating overall, most know If caught their girlfriend or wife will probably leave and they will have to deal with the USA dysfunctional dating culture all over again, I am just so sick of the Men mostly cheat stereotype, the facts do not support that nonsense…

        1. Buff Stud

          Mike,

          I did not say that women don’t cheat. “40% of site surfers  are married men.”

           

          Don’t read into this something that is not there… No mention of men cheating, only surfing.

      2. 1.1.2
        Julie

        In my experience it’s more like 60%. And I’m a paralegal so I WILL find out. It’s annoying because they assume they are so smart they will never get caught…but they do waste a lot of people’s time. There are many free ways to check marital status – I suggest familiarzing yourself with them and using them.

  2. 2
    *yawn*

    Nice pep talk. But no, just no. I’m 32. I’m less than average looking, so I know I don’t stand a chance, even though I make (made, so over the endless primping) the best of what I got. I’ve been used for target practice, and settled for, and thrown away when the chemical high wore off. I’ve followed this kind of yawnesome advice for 16 years now. And I’m bored of it. Why waste my time and emotional resources hoping (because aside from being our best that’s all we can really do, right?) a man will deign to fall head over heels with a “wretch” like me in order to grant me children? (Are women even allowed to say we want children any more? Or are we so far removed from sex that we forget that pleasure is not its sole purpose? Men love women and women love babies? Every non-Western culture in the world acknowledges that, but should I wash my mouth out?) Anyway, I’ve decided to adopt. Adios boys, I’m pouring my love into the deserving.

    1. 2.1
      Lady

      I am glad you posted this. I have been starting to think the same way about pouring my love into a child rather than a man and am thinking of adopting. I don’t buy all the losing weight, fix your appearance for men business. I am slim and attractive and have had relationship after relationship but most have cheated, some have hit me and i have also been taken for a ride financially. Why should I blame myself for this?  What attitude adjustment should I make? Its not worth it. I have a lot of love to give and I think there is a child who will deserve me more than a man.
       

      1. 2.1.1
        bob

        Oh please you must have been dating the bad boys and crying when they do the obvious thing they do best, how many nice guys did you friend zone too many to count I figure, unless you are full of it and not slim and attractive as you claim please do the world a favor and stay celibate 

        1. Really

          You mean nice guys like you, Bob? Yeah, your snippy remarks make you sound really “nice.”

        2. Crystal

          Wow, what a “nice guy.” It never fails. Men who make the above rant are NEVER nice. They are just abusers in disguises, and whiny ones at that.

        3. CM

          I see what this is.  You’re bitter.  You have been “friend-zoned” one too many times and you’re so mad at the world you have to take advantage of someone’s vulnerability by posting this stupid comment so that you can feel better.  Weak.  Unless you can actually lose the bitterness and help instead of try to harm someone with your comment, you should do the world a favor and stay in the friend zone.

        4. HamiltonJames

          Bob may be bitter, but he’s correct.  Nice guys who will complement women, take them out on dates, buy flowers…get nowhere.  Such men are called “betas”…women want the bad boys. Bad boys aren’t “alphas” as PUAs claim…they are really losers who have few skills other than attracting bad boy loving women (which is  a lot of women).

          Now I could do some of that, but I choose not to.  That said, I’ve built up an edge over the years that I didn’t have when I was 30. I don’t put up with nonsense anymore.   I’m an average guy in my 50s (not much hair on top – a disqualifier reading many of these comments) but I have built some wealth.  And that is all the women my age are interested in.  The attractive ones aren’t attracted to me because I’m not a jerk.

          So if that’s all they are interested in, why not go for the younger women that also are only interested in that?  I know they’ll dump me after a while (I try to be proactive and dump them before I get too emotionally attached, knowing the inevitable).

        5. Karl R

          HamiltonJames said:

          “Nice guys who will complement women, take them out on dates, buy flowers…get nowhere.”

           

          How is any of that nice behavior?  Especially if those actions are taken with the ulterior motive of getting a relationship and sex.

          I went on first/second dates so I could spend time with specific women and get to know them better.  I went on later dates because I found the women fun and enjoyed their company.

          It sounds like you’re engaging in self-deception.  How are you any nicer than Evan or me?

      2. 2.1.2
        john

        You really attract the wrong men if you are getting hit and cheated on.   a real man will not do that, also a real man can see a wacked out women from a far.  it sounds like you have issues and your issues are attracting undesirable men.  step back and take a look at yourself before damning a whole gender.

      3. 2.1.3
        useless

        I dated a girl like you. A girl who had been mistreated and abused and used for money. I thought she learned that lesson and would know when she was treated right and not used by a guy. She wanted kids as did I and everything was going good then she crushed my soul. I used to look at my prior failed relationships as if they were not my fault and had given up on women. After I dated her I realized that it wasn’t women but myself that I should’ve given up on. She made me feel worthless and I will never be the same. There is a reason I’m in my 30’s and single and that reason is me. I’m not relationship material. I was content with my self before we dated but now I wished I never knew her at all. Life doesn’t seem worth living now. Nothing motivates now and I have her to thank for showing me how I really am. I had very little self confidence to begin with now it has bottomed out.

        1. Sidney

          Please don’t ever judge yourself by what others think of you. You have to love yourself before you can love your soul mate.

           

           

           

           

      4. 2.1.4
        Dina Strange

        Lady, don’t pay attention to the men who degrade you on this thread, and say it must be your issues that you attract wrong men, or that u like bad boys.

        It’s all nonsense. And don’t give up hope. There are tons of low esteemed men who only feel good about themselves by degrading women. Leave those right away.

        Wish you luck. 

      5. 2.1.5
        X

        Ladies, as a divorced mother of one, please abandon your train of thought that a child will replace a man: S/he will not do so. You cannot be emotionally or physically intimate with your child. A parent-child dynamic is a different kind of love. I can’t imagine how twisted such a child would grow up, were s/he raised by a mother who looked at him/her as a replacement for a man.

        Please don’t go that route.

        1. Chris St Pierre

          This seems like really good advice, and given out rationally and without any sort of animosity or bitterness.  Kudos!

        2. Carol O.

          wow, you just described my sister. Big problems… she needs therapy.  She got divorced and instead of “dating” again, she completely gave up on ever wanting to be in another relationship again.  Instead, she has basically put all her emotional needs into her son who is still living with her and she’s driving him crazy.  She’s become this controlling, needy nightmare of a mom who won’t let go because he is the only male in her life now.  It’s like she’s transferred the emotional support she had from her hubby onto her son now, and he is truly starting to hate her.  The fighting between the 2 is horrible.  I’m actually worried if he doesn’t move out, something terrible will happen.  He’s a good guy, he works full time as a lead Chef at a major hotel chain.  He calls her psycho now.  A woman does need a man her life, if you think you don’t, you are lying to yourself.  Do not turn to your children to fullfill all your emotional needs.  If you find being in a relationship is just not worth all the trouble, and bull that goes along with trying to be in relationship…fine. Just don’t use your children as a replacement.  You don’t have to be in a “relationship” with a man, but you do need men friends in your life.  I find men to be some the best friends I’ve ever had.  They have always been there on a dime when I need help with something around the house, or with my car.  In my life, I have found my couple of guy friends to be way more reliable than any of my female friends when I need help with something; a ride to get my car fixed, help with something around my house (they’ll offer to take care of something and tell me you don’t need to hire anyone; I can do that!).  Tell you truth, that’s the way I appreciate them as people the most, is when we are friends and not romantically involved.  My point is you need men in your life, esp as friends.

      6. 2.1.6
        martin2

        “Nice guys who will complement women, take them out on dates, buy flowers…get nowhere.”

        How is any of that nice behavior?

        I should have thought it was obviously nice behaviour! What’s your idea of nice behaviour, beating her to death with a spade?

    2. 2.2
      Kate

      God bless you, “yawn”. So very sorry that you have not been fully appreciated for the wonderful person you seem to be. Your post is so eloquent. Good luck with everything you do.

    3. 2.3
      mikeh71

      Yawn, women are pretty useless with looks your comments just proved that to me, Now you know what unemployed men deal with.
      Welcome to my world, of perpetual loneliness, now I will give you some of the crappy advice women tell men frustrated with dating difficulties:
      1. Your trying to hard, just let it happen.
      2. Just be yourself and focus on life outside of relationships
      3.It is what’s inside that counts.
      4. Be patient there is someone out there for you.
      also due to your unhealthy attitude toward relationships you should not being raising any children.
      If an unattractive men spoke like you did he would be could a beta crybaby and told to work on himself and that his game sucks and that’s why your single because like most women without looks then your pretty much unless. Game aka Charisma is one advantage of that men have because we are always trying to meet women.

      1. 2.3.1
        Buff Stud

        YEP!

         

        Sorry ladies, but women treat men like crap when they (women) are young and attractive (to men). Also, women have the upper hand in the dating world when they are in their twenties. Younger women can be brutal, and then they turn thirty.

         

        I experienced it myself many times: As a 5’6″ tall guy, despite having “Beautiful eyes” and being physically fit (amateur athlete and attached to a SEAL team where I trained side by side with them) I suffered GREAT rejection throughout my twenties and early thirties. Women often refused to treat me with even basic human decency when rejecting my interest in them. Luckily, not all of them, but a large enough percentage that it shook my confidence more than a little, and I am very confident in who I am as a person.

         

        The shift starts to happen after thirty and women start to age; some women don’t see the shift and the changes it brings, or are too busy to care till it has already gone by them. By the time women are in their late thirties, and youthful beauty is waning (sorry, no other way to put it), men have turned their attention to youthful beauty once again (if it ever really turned away). Women have a difficult time adapting to the new environment.

         

        Men look at women and decide if she is what he is looking for, but with different standards than women use. Men that are interested in a thirty-eight year old woman are more than likely in their mid to late forties, or early fifties, and, if interested in marriage, are not usually looking to have babies. After-all, a fifty year old guy would be nearly seventy by the time junior graduates high school. Most other fifty year old guys are talking about their kids in college, not diapers. My youngest is twelve, and I am the oldest dad of any of her friend’s dads.

         

        We don’t mind having more kids in the house; some of us would even like it. But the thought of very young children, seems like a life sentence, as we would like a few years alone with our better-half before poor health sets in. A thirty-eight year old woman with no kids, that wants kids, is not for everyone. The seventy plus year old is looking for a live in nursemaid (j/k).

         

        A thirty-eight year old woman has youthful beauty… to a fifty plus year old man (fifty in just a few weeks myself, so I think I can speak from that point of view) and you may find one that thinks he will live forever…

         

        I like the sage advice given in the article about not holding on to those “Must haves” you came up with in your twenties. You know, “6’2″ tall, well tanned, blonde haired, blue eyes, and dimples, with a college education, and financially well off.”

         

        Maybe your Mr. Right is not the thirty-two year old you get wet thinking about, but rather the forty-six year old guy that is 5’4″, slightly balding, a little out of shape, and drives a truck for Coca-Cola or some other blue collar job. You know, the guy you overlook every time because of some artificial disqualifier you have place on him. Maybe it’s not that he is not good enough, maybe your expectation is unrealistic.

         

        I truly hope everyone that wants to get married, have a family, and fill fulfilled in their dreams, is able to achieve it. I believe that the only real road block in your path is yourself.

         

        Best wishes,

        1. SparklingEmerald

          Biff S

          I like the sage advice given in the article about not holding on to thoseMust haves” you came up with in your twenties. You know, “6’2″ tall, well tanned, blonde haired, blue eyes, and dimples, with a college education, and financially well off.”

          Biff S also said “men have turned their attention to youthful beauty once again

          Thanks for illustrating that there are those among BOTH genders with a superficial list of “must haves”.   You enumerated the qualities that women consider physically attractive in men, while just listing men’s superficial lists under one word “beauty” which makes women’s list seem longer, but if you define the qualities that men consider to comprise “beauty” you will find that the male check list is as long as the women’s.  Beauty for men equals, hour glass figure, beautiful head of hair, glowing complexion, colgate smile, high cheek bones, generally looking like she could grace the cover of a fashion magazine. Oh yes, and add virgin-whore to the list, because many men seem to hate women who put out and women who don’t put out.  Try being a woman and navigating THAT sexual minefield.  The minefield that men must navigate is the nice-guy/asshole complex.  Evan suggests that men strive to be the “nice guy with balls” and that girls be the “nice girl with boundaries”.  Pretty good balance I think.

          Actually, I understand that attraction is very shallow for BOTH genders.  I don’t begrudge either gender their attractions.  I think we are hard wired to gravitate to physical attractiveness, because these traits usually signal good health and fertility.  (That hip to waist ratio that men naturally find so irresistable is a fertility cue)  Since the driving force behind sexual attraction is to produce off-spring, we are naturally hard wired to be attracted to potential mates who could provide us with HEALTHY off spring.

          My thoughts on this, for both genders is to stop bemoaning the fact that the opposite sex looks for superficial physical attraction, and make the most of your own looks.  After all YOU also are drawn to physical attractiveness yourself.   Just don’t be so blinded by physical beauty that you accept a mate who treats you poorly.

          Look at most happy couples.  Many of them are in the averagely attractive category.  Neither one of them has every quality that constitutes physical beauty, but since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, they both find each other attractive, if not “perfect”.

          I am sorry you were treated rudely by women in your youth.  But just as men and women are BOTH drawn to physical attractiveness (and many think that this is OK for their gender, but not the opposite) BOTH genders experience bad treatment from the opposite sex.  It really sucks, but rejecting an interested suitor in a kind way, is usually a social skill that comes with maturity.  Not saying that YOU personally mistreated women, (I have no way of knowing) but many members of your gender did.

          Also, remembering my youth, not only did men reject me with coldness, (and I did the flake out thing, the being “busy” thing, when rejecting men also) but I also experienced a lot of unwanted street harassment.  Since I didn’t drive until I was in my early 20’s, I walked or took public transportation everywhere, and many men took my being out in public as an invitation to make crude sexual remarks towards me.

          BOTH genders are drawn to physical beauty, some to the point where it clouds their judgement, others are able to strike a healthy balance between attraction and compatibility.

          BOTH genders experience mistreatment from the opposite sex as well.  Neither gender has a monopoly on mistreating the other.

           

        2. babybee

          @Buff Stud, so what you’re saying is if I’m in my late thirties then I should drop dead because I’m old and ugly and no one wants me except a short bald truck driver! Please Stfu! My sister is 40 and she just got married to a good looking caring 37 yr old guy and they’re planning to have a baby this coming year. Disrespectful shallow men like you give all those great guys out there a bad name. And ladies, it’s true men may prefer younger but just like women prefer tall handsome millionaires, but once you love someone, age is the last thing on anyone’s mind. Everyday you’re younger than the next day so don’t let some dumb guy bring your self esteem down because your older self will hate you for it 🙂

    4. 2.4
      CJ

      Fantastic Idea!! I applaud you. As a mother (a single mother for over 6 years now) the love I have for my kids is unfathomable. The bonds I have with these humans is unmatched. No man can compete with the lovely and secure feeling of knowing that you have built your own little kingdom of lovely people who all love each other, FOREVER.  We can’t leave each other and I make sure I maintain relationships, no matter what with them and now welcoming a daughter in law, as well.  My heart swells.  No man necessary. Give yourself the experience of pouring yourself into a deserving little human and make another human who needs it, feel that no matter what someone, somewhere in the world thinks they are the best thing in it.  Well done!! Good choice!! Men are no where near as wonderful as the love you can have for a child.  I HIGHLY recommend it.

    5. 2.5
      Jennifer

      Good girl, this article is boring as hell. First of all, women need to understand THEY have power called ‘shakti’ in sanskrit–a language that I believe has the oldest and most detailed documents on life, love, relationships, and purpose. A woman’s shakti enables a man to do more than he can alone. All women deserve a good man. I live with a huge woman not really pretty by magazine standards, but she’s happily married, has two children, and her and her husband of like 25 or 30 years now just gush over each other. It’s truly inspired me. Don’t be desperate!! Over 35, who cares??? Marriage is an arrangement to enable BOTH people, to maybe have children, and to eventually leave by death. Men are looking for this too. Ever walked into a man pad? Usually smells, or if it doesn’t it’s all set up for the women they hope to attract. Don’t give men so much power dear writer. Women run the show when they know their worth.

      1. 2.5.1
        BlingBlangGang

        Best comment that I’ve read under this post. Love & Light!

  3. 3
    Karl R

    *yawn* said: (#3)
    “Im less than average looking, so I know I dont stand a chance,”

    Instead of being a pessimist, you might want to start being a realist.

    Look around you at all the married people. There are a lot of them that are below average looking. There are a lot of them that are unattractive. There are quite a few that are even revoltingly ugly. And they found someone to marry. It’s obviously possible for them, so it should be possible for you to.

    “Why waste my time and emotional resources hoping … a man will deign to fall head over heels with a wretch like me in order to grant me children?”

    So you see men as a means to an end? I wouldn’t want to be used like a sperm donor, and I’m guessing that a lot of other men feel the same way. Perhaps that’s one of the things getting in your way.

    Since children are your main goal, I’d say you’re pursuing the right choice by adopting.

    But if you ever decide to try dating men again, you might want to reread what Moxie wrote about “Get an attitude adjustment”. I wouldn’t date a woman with your attitude even if she was drop-dead gorgeous. (Okay, I might date her once if she was gorgeous, but I’d probably end up trying to escape by the end of the date.)

  4. 4
    Jennifer

    I love this article. The adivce (from most people’s bigest isue being fear to being more positive than negative) is right on. Great advice that, if you truly subscribe to it, works.

  5. 5
    A-L

    This certainly makes for interesting reading. But I have two questions:

    1) At what point do you start thinking that the problem of why you’re not married yet isn’t due to life circumstances, meeting the right person, etc but rather due to some problem with yourself? The article says that by the time one is 35 they’ve already hit this mark, but how much earlier is that point?

    2) Does the same thing hold true for people who haven’t had a long-term relationship (nonmarriage)? Say, if you haven’t had a long-term significant other by the age of 20 or 25 or 30 or… then the problem is with you, not with various circumstances? And at what age is that?

    1. 5.1
      lucka

      Relevant points.
      To your No. 1 – the circumstances certainly play role. A person working in a company consisting of 3000 people will probably have a slightly higher chance to meet an opposite sex. On the other hand, freelancing significantly lowers this chance, unless it is compensated in his/her free time activities.  I think the critical moment arrives when most of our friends are getting married. Than we start to ask what is wrong with us. Usually nothing. We tend to overlook the big picture. Those couples didn’t miraculously met each other on the shore covered with sunset, didn’t feel in love like never before etc. They had built their relationship for years and some of them arrived to conclusion to get married.
      Which leads me to the No. 2 – I am an attractive, intelligent woman, 34 y/o. What I can say about myself that I was too picky, to unwilling to settle for something less. I wanted an equal partner in every aspect. Isn’t this attitude natural? I dare to say it is. I turned down few interesting offers with potential of good quality relationship and I regret it. Because I was afraid of commitment, of losing my freedom, of everything what relationship brings. Just recently I have started to feel being ready and it is only due to maturing and working on myself.
      But back to your point. We should also consider the quality of the marriages. Doesn’t every second end up in a divorce? Thus I recommend, don’t give up your expectations which I’d call natural, do the best you can about yourself in every aspect, be positive and who knows…Let’s hope for the best. 

      1. 5.1.1
        mikeh71

        Lucka, yes you are very unrealistic like many of the women here, I base this on your comment:
        “I wanted an equal partner in every aspect.” No this is not natural because no person is ever going to have all the items on your laundry list. Your like plenty of women posting here chose to remain single by being too demanding. Most single men do not have this option but ask yourself when your looks fade how will you meet men?

      2. 5.1.2
        Hardy

        Just one word, “Maturity”. Thank you very much for your lovely contribution.

      3. 5.1.3
        Ayendab

        Out of every entry that was shared and read so far, I find your entry to be the most balanced and realistic. (Based on my perspective.)

        I don’t and will never “know” you but, to articulate that process and the emotions that come naturally with it has been difficult for me to do.

        You hit the nail on the head!!

        Thanks for sharing!

         

         

         

         

         

         

    2. 5.2
      mikeh71

      A-L Women usually come to this conclusion when at 35-40 their looks begin to fade and they realize that men will are not checking them out or kissing their asses as much anymore.
      So women do what men have done since high school, They start looking and working on themselves with the hope of attracting someone that they would have shot down 5-10 years ago.

      1. 5.2.1
        starthrower68

        Another one wanders over from the manosphere.

  6. 6
    Kenley

    What if the reason that a woman isn’t married by 38 is because she just hasn’t met the man she wants to spend her life with? Why does it have to be that there are a host of things wrong with her that she must fix? Frankly, given the high divorce rate in this country, I think there are lots of people getting married who shouldn’t.

    1. 6.1
      Agnes

      Well said Kenley, thank u for those words, it can be as simple as that.  

    2. 6.2
      L

      Thank you for stating this! I am a 36-year-old  attractive female who has spent most of my summers traveling, learning languages and singing/acting with men who are usually gay. I also invest a lot of time in meeting straight and available men, but I will not settle for someone who is not right. I am positive. It will happen.

      1. 6.2.1
        Claudia

        Thank you, L. We don’t consider single MEN who spend their time traveling, learning languages, and becoming more cultured lacking in any way, do we?

        1. Fromkin

          Only if they ask for dating advice, claiming no one is available who meets strict criteria. Which was the original point.

    3. 6.3
      Mee

      Ride on!!

    4. 6.4
      Sarah

      Yes agreed, I am 37 and single – I found this article was fairly naive!
       
      There is no set time to be ‘achieving’ a relationship and ridiculous to judge anyone who is not at a certain stage at a certain time. The worst thing people can do is compare themselves to what others are doing at different ages.
       
      The friends I have that are “left over” as this article seems to put it – certainly don’t have any issues. 
       
       
      In one case, it seems to be a matter of living in a city with more women, being tall, incredibly intelligent, bubbly, friendly and successful. Why would she settle for someone who can’t be intellectually stimulating? Luckily she held out and has recently found her match.

       I certainly don’t envy majority of my friends relationships. They settled, rushed, turned a blind eye, were too ‘weak’ to enjoy singledom, merely stayed for security etc. They aren’t happy.

      1. 6.4.1
        Buff Stud

        Good luck with having a kid in five to ten years from now if you want one… just saying; mother nature is a b!t@#

         

        Btw, my wife started menopause at thirty-eight and my sister was advised not to have another child when she was forty, she tried, but miscarried twice due to complications stemming from onset of menopause before giving up at forty two.

        1. Lisa

          I am a 38 year old female Buff and I agree with you.  I never really wanted kids and I am okay with my life choices. I am single.  Some of it is likely my fault, focused on career, stayed in bad relationships for too long, but some of it is also circumstances and the fact that because marriage and children were never truly life goals or mine I did not focus on them much. Now all I really want is a companion, someone to travel with and spend time. Someone to share in my success.  I would like to marry and meet one person, just so I can get off the dating merry go round.    Contrary to this article I have no problem with getting dates online on any of the sites.  Yes I too get the older guys, the married ones etc, but I get a lot of dates with normal guys too.  If I wanted to I could go on a date every night of the week and almost all ask for a second.   So ladies don’t let this article fool you.   Age does not mean you cannot online date.   My inbox is still full, sometimes too full. But I also have no problem dating divorced men or men with kids, never have. I do like tall men and non smokers and men who have jobs.   I have a lot of friends my age that are in serious denial.  Thinking somehow at 38 that they will meet a man and still have a family the natural way and not realizing how hard it is.  First, you have to meet the right man, then get pregnant, etc.  This is very difficult.   All the while they sit home waiting for him to come.  At least I got on several dates a week trying.   Mother nature is not on our side ladies, its a brutal reality.  So yes you can find a relationship at any point in your life, but if kids is your goal, then let your goal be realistic.

        2. Adreana

          Buff Stud- Not every woman wants kids. I’m still young, but like Lisa I just want someone to fall in love with, travel and enjoy life with..Kids would just tie me down and wreck my body.

          I know a few women who settled and married just because “their clock was ticking” and they are very unhappy. Not only did they stop having sex with their husbands ( because they didn’t really want them in the first place), but now that they have kids they don’t have enough time for their hobbies and friends. I don’t envy them at all, but that’s what happens when you let societal expectations( and the fear of being alone)  impact your decision-making.

      2. 6.4.2
        Ayendab

        ♡♡♡♡♡

         

         

         

         

         

         

      3. 6.4.3
        Adreana

        Good for you Sarah!

        I also have several friends who settled out of fear..their sex lives with their husbands is nonexistent and they look very unhappy. They could have waited for someone they really wanted, and just enjoyed  casual dating for fun in the meantime but they had to ruin it.

    5. 6.5
      Opie

      Thank you!!!

    6. 6.6
      a woman

      People usually start dating around the age of 18, this means that she had approximately 20 years to find a suitable partner. And mind you… a woman had the best years of her life to find someone (she was at her best in terms of beauty, physical shape and fertility, as well as options -more men are available, after that, many are married with kids). At 38 the men she she finds will not be the same as the ones in her 20s and early 30s. I think it’s time people start being realistic. If this woman was anti-social, then maybe she should  change this. Other than that, there is absolutely no reason to believe that you will find a better partner later than sooner.

  7. 7
    Karl R

    Kenley asked: (#7)
    “What if the reason that a woman isnt married by 38 is because she just hasnt met the man she wants to spend her life with? Why does it have to be that there are a host of things wrong with her that she must fix?”

    Let’s assume that someone starts trying to meet their significant other sometime between the ages of 18 and 22. That means they’ve had 16 to 20 years to look for Mr/Mrs Right. Even if they wait until 30, that’s still 8 years.

    Do you really think you can apply yourself to a goal for 20 years (or even 8 years) without making progress?

    And if you “just haven’t met” the right person, that may explain the problem. Sitting around waiting for Mr/Mrs Right to fall into your lap is hardly an effective dating strategy. If you’re not actively trying to accomplish your goal, you probably won’t reach it.

    Benjamin Franklin said, “Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again … and expecting different results.” If someone has been dating for an extended period of time without getting results, it’s likely that their methods need to be changed.

    A-L asked: (#6)
    “At what point do you start thinking that the problem of why youre not married yet isnt due to life circumstances, meeting the right person, etc but rather due to some problem with yourself?”

    Who cares?

    Let me turn this around. Do you think that you will find your future spouse faster if you take Moxie’s advice? (And her advice is largely common sense.)

    I can expand my dating pool by dating divorcees and single parents. I can expand it by limiting my “must-haves” list to the bare essentials. I can expand my dating pool by getting out and being active with different groups.

    If I understand the kind of impression I make, I can change it to attract more (or better) people. I’ll make a better impression if I’m an optimist. I’ll make a better impression if I’m a good listener. I’ll make a better impression if I’m confident.

    I’m going to follow sensible dating advice regardless of whether my single status is due to my flaws or due to other circumstances.

    1. 7.1
      Kay

      Be careful Karl. Changing for a positive attitude is good but don’t compromise too much that makes you sounds desperate and don’t even know who you are anymore. You make it seems you are changing for a positive outcome but the way you always bashing others’ idea and thought isn’t very convincing. You seems somewhat angry in you tone. Why? You can’t force others to digest an article the same way you do. Or are you just trying to force yourself to think like that and scare that others’ comments gets in your way and mess you up? Seems like you are really lost. Hey why don’t you just relax, be who you are and maybe you will be happier and eventually find your love ones? Just saying.

    2. 7.2
      lule

      I am not against taking stock of your life and changing a few things about yourself here and there. Maybe like joining clubs, beginning to exercise, even compromising on the qualities you consider important in a partner, also admitting to the world that you are looking for love and being open about it.

      What I don’t agree with is changing so much that you don’t recognize yourself anymore. The whole point of searching for a partner is to find a companion who will bring some kind of happiness into your life. Will you really be happy with someone you don’t find attractive? The goal is not necessarily marriage, it is happiness or content in your marriage.

      I come from a society where it is all about marriage no matter what. who you marry is not that much of a big deal as long as you are married. I don’t agree with this. I am 38 yrs old and I very much want to find love and marry but I still have standards that this man I marry has to meet. I don’t believe that settling for someone I don’t really want will make me any happier than I would be on my own.

  8. 8
    Michael

    The important thing is to measure up to other people.

    If you know so many people whom you went to high school or college with, who are married or have kids, does this not mean you should get married so you can measure up to them?

    1. 8.1
      laurie

      I agree. Why do we have to put souch pressure on ourselves to be involved with someone.

  9. 9
    Michael


    I can expand my dating pool by dating divorcees and single parents.

    Why would you want to date a divorcee? Or a single parent? (Assuming that you are not either.)

    1. 9.1
      TheThinker

      What in the world is wrong with a divorcee? Or a single parent for that matter? In America where either spouse can file for a divorce for no reason at all, I think it’s silly to write divorcees off without even getting to know them.
      And, while my first choice would never be a divorcee or a single parent, there are so many exceptions that I cannot begin to list here.
      Please let’s stop making sweeping statements that have no basis.

      1. 9.1.1
        TK

        “What in the world is wrong with a divorcee?” Because 60% of those who get remarried redivorce.
        “Or a single parent for that matter?” Because who wants to look at the bastard reminder that someone else nutted in your wife while you fork out your hard earned money to take care of them.

        1. starthrower68

          Any good parent would avoid someone with that mindset like the plague. Part of the problem with this culture is, there are too many single parents relegating their kids to the emotional dustbin for your kind.

  10. 10
    starthrower68

    Wow. On the one hand I can see what Moxie is saying. But I guess if one is going to work on herself, the reason behind the motivation should be examined first. I would submit that personal growth is best done for one’s own self and if the right person comes along as a result of that, then fabulous. But if she invests in herself for the sole purpose of attracting the right guy, then I wonder about that approach. If you look at dating as a numbers game, the way Moxie and Evan describe it, then I’d rather invest the time and emotional energy into myself for myself. I’m not saying that a person shouldn’t be open to meeting the right one, but put yourself first, and let them figure out how fabulous you are. If they don’t, that is not yours to deal with.

  11. 11
    Kenley

    Karl R,

    I don’t believe I ever suggested that women should just wait for a man to fall in their laps. Nor did I suggest that they should keep doing the same thing over and over. I didn’t even suggest that women should ignore sensible dating advice. I only questioned Moxie’s assertion that every woman (and she said every) who is 38 years old and has never married is a significantly flawed human being. I’m just a little tired of women being told that they’ve got all these horrible flaws that they have to fix. Plus, I’m tired of this notion that people who manage to get married are somehow better than people who don’t — that’s just baloney. I actually think a lot of people get divorced because there’s a lot of deception about who people really are and what they really want. Once they get into the marriage and reveal their true nature, the relationship falls apart. I’d rather wait 100 years to find someone who loves me just as I am — flaws and all than to turn myself into someone I’m not so I can get married at 25; divorced at 35 with two broken-hearted kids and an angry, bitter ex husband.

    1. 11.1
      Lizette

      Well said.  Kudos!

    2. 11.2
      lule

      I wouldn’t have said it better. The goal is not marriage but a good marriage that is sustainable. And the reality is that some people will never find it. Yes I am searching but I also know that there is a chance that I might not find love or a partner.

    3. 11.3
      Ayendab

      ♡♡♡♡♡♡!!!

  12. 12
    A-L

    My post was not meant to indicate that you need to “keep up with the Jones'” as it were, as if all of your friends or high school classmates are married then you should be as well. It’s more of an indication that more introspection and self-examination may be in order.

    For instance, if you say you want to lose weight and are trying to lose weight but you’ve only lost five pounds over the course of a year, then you realize that it may be time to take stock and reassess what you’re doing and what changes might need to be made to be more effective. Losing five pounds over a year isn’t where one wants to be after dieting for a year, but if one has lost fifty pounds, then even if you’re not where you want to be, you’re still doing well.

    In the same way one tries to evaluate one’s dating life and seeing if additional self-examination needs to take place, or if one is within the range of what is expected. It could easily be something like I was in school until my mid to late twenties and then was working eighty hours a week at my job when I started, but now I’ve cut back and things are normal. Changes may not necessarily need to be made, but some assessment should take place to see if there’s something that may/should be changed.

    Not everyone wants to be seeing someone seriously or wants to get married. But if that’s a goal, then one shouldn’t be afraid of working toward it. Of course, I’m tired, it’s late, and it’s quite possible this makes no sense. But it’s my attempt to clarify my earlier questions.

  13. 13
    Michael

    In the same way one tries to evaluate one’s dating life and seeing if additional self-examination needs to take place, or if one is within the range of what is expected. It could easily be something like I was in school until my mid to late twenties and then was working eighty hours a week at my job when I started, but now I’ve cut back and things are normal. Changes may not necessarily need to be made, but some assessment should take place to see if there’s something that may/should be changed.
    The best way to do something successfully is to emulate people who succeeded. This then becomes an issue of how to effectively emulate other people.

  14. 14
    Karl R

    Kenley said: (#12)
    “I dont believe I ever suggested that women should just wait for a man to fall in their laps.”
    “I only questioned Moxies assertion that every woman (and she said every) who is 38 years old and has never married is a significantly flawed human being.”

    If you show me where Moxie asserted that every woman who is 38 years old and has never been married is a significantly flawed human being, then I’ll show you how I drew those inferences from your post.

    Michael said: (#10)
    “Why would you want to date a divorcee? Or a single parent? (Assuming that you are not either.)”
    Michael said: (in another thread)
    “If a woman is divorced, then she is, by definition , not perfect.”

    If a woman exists, except within my fantasies, she is, by definition, not perfect.

    I’m single (never married) and have no interest in having kids, but I’ve met some truly wonderful women who were either divorced and/or had kids. The latter is less appealing to me (since I don’t want to be a parent), but I’m reaching the age where some of my peers have children that are grown and gone.

    Your comment about a “perfect” woman reminds me of a joke. Two men were talking to each other…

    Man #1: “Why do you look so down?”
    Man #2: “I just met the perfect woman.”
    Man #1: “That’s terrific! But why would that make you sad?”
    Man #2: “She was looking for the perfect man.”

  15. 15
    Kenley

    Karl R,

    Moxie wrote “I haven’t met one single person over the age of
    35 who’s still single and wasn’t that way for a serious reason.”
    I interpreted that statement in the context of her article as a
    suggestion that those people are flawed.

    1. 15.1
      Buff Stud

      All people are flawed, some just flawed differently than others.

  16. 16
    Karl R

    Kenley, (#16)

    A serious reason could imply a seriously flawed dating strategy or a seriously flawed expectation.

    I’m around the age that Moxie’s talking about, and I’m still single. Why? I put no effort into dating for years. I’d call that a serious reason … but it hardly made me a flawed individual.

    I had to change my priorities, my effort, my socializing and a number of other things.

    Your initial response to Moxie was:
    “What if the reason that a woman isnt married by 38 is because she just hasnt met the man she wants to spend her life with?”

    Do you really think anyone (man or woman) who has been putting some effort into dating and using an effective strategy can go 20 years without meeting someone who would be a wonderful spouse?

    At that point, I’d say the logical reasons are that they’re waiting for someone to just fall into their laps or they actually are a seriously flawed individual.

    1. 16.1
      Kay

      Karl, there are many other aspects to this. Do you really think someone spend his/her straight 20 years to find love? Don’t you think there are other things we have to do in life too, during that 20 years? You make it sound like it’s the only job someone has been doing for 20 years and not being successful because of lacking of effort. Let me tell you what, it’s not like saving money in the bank. You can accuse somebody of lacking effort if they can’t save up enough money to buy a house after 20 years. But you are talking about love here. It’s fate and destiny. You are wrong for putting a time time frame in finding one. There are people that has been dating around for years and still couldn’t find the right one. Even celebrities. As a matter of fact most of them are still single at very old age. Do you think they also were just sitting around waiting for someone to fall into their laps? Please

  17. 17
    Kenley

    Karl R,

    I’m going to relay a story that a friend told me about Michael Jordan which I’m sure won’t change your opinion, but it might give you something to think about.

    Before MJ retired the first time, he just could not tolerate players who weren’t playing as well as he thought they should. He got angry with them and accused them of not applying themselves or not being disciplined or not just trying hard enough or wanting it badly enough to reach greatness (not MJ level of greatness, of course, just mortal level of greatness.) Well, when he left basketball and played minor league baseball, he gained a whole new perspective because no matter how hard he tried, no matter how much of the MJ mental and physical discipline and hard work he applied to baseball, he simply was not a good player. When he returned to basketball, he was a much more understanding guy because he now knew from personal experience that trying hard and doing all the right things, doesn’t always equal success.

    So, what’s my point? My point is that yes indeed there are some women who are following sensible dating strategies and still have not found a wonderful spouse. They aren’t lazy; they aren’t doing the same things over and over, and they aren’t flawed. Just because things fell into place for you once you put your mind to it and started to use effective dating strategies, doesn’t mean that the same thing happens for others. Sometimes doing everything right, even for a long time, doesn’t equal success, especially when success involves love.

  18. 18
    *yawn*

    Karl R, I am a realist: I’m cutting my losses and pouring my heart into children, as I’ve always wanted to, instead of continuing to waste (more of) my years dreaming about them. If I meet a man fantastic, if I don’t, I’ll be doing some good for the world and my heart. I don’t actually believe it’s *sane* to continue putting myself out there to be used and abused in the world of online dating, but of course I’ll go about my backpacking holidays, volunteering, art classes, marathon training and decent career (compacent, moi?) with an open mind to whom I might meet.

    But I’m not a hot commodity, I’m depreciating, and the trend for men wanting Real Women (TM) is so 1995 – I realise that, and I don’t think that’s pessimistic, I think it’s deeply, deeply disturbing but honest! My original points were over-the-top in order to get attention, and since it worked…

    Sure women can settle, and many of us do or would like to, but what’s an average-looking woman to do in a (Western) world where even the majority of uneducated, ugly, fat, socially inept, spiritually bankrupt, uncultured, unworldly men think they deserve a “hot” woman? Believe me I’ve tried dating these guys (thank you, Sir, for asking me if you can practice your negging technique on me!) and they’re so deluded, and so obviously on the lookout for “the next best thing”, that it’s humiliating, degrading, and depressing.

    As for not wanting to be a “sperm donor”, don’t you realise that women size men up as daddy potential the moment they set eyes on them unless they’re just a fling? C’mon. Or is the biological urge to have children only permitted to arise within the social constructs of a committed relationship (oh, hang on) despite that it’s every bit as strong as the urge to have sex? Why do women ultimately want to marry? Because society tells us we “have” to in order to have children, duh. (Hint: the race is on to marry before 30.)

    Also, yes, I do think that someone who has been using the same dating strategies for 20 years can make a wonderful spouse. I’ve had two live in relationships, the first one was 5 years, and the second one was 4 years. Both ended when the men left to find younger women, but I guess in your mind that makes me damaged goods.

    Women can follow all the dating strategies they like, but it doesn’t change the fact that the majority of guys in the Western world feel entitled (ugh) to overlook (or use) women who aren’t physically “attractive” as opposed to their more “beautiful” sisters. Or that so much dating “advice” for men and women is combative, instead of co-operative (insult her men; be a b*tch, girls!) It’s great for capitalism, but not so great for gender relations. Ditto the fact that temptation is encouraged for both sexes, and in our faces, everywhere.

    I believe that many, many “average looking” women who are NOW in their thirties and forties are going to miss out on mates in the next decade, not through being flawed, but through being alive in a time when the pendulum of “sexual liberation” has swung too far the other way, and I think it’s an absolute shame.

    1. 18.1
      Dina Strange

      Absolutely love your response….great comment overall. So very true.

    2. 18.2
      christina

      WONDERFUL post- and very true!!

    3. 18.3
      ShivaD

      Yikes – women like you make me cringe! Just by the way you went about responding to his blog post demonstrates you are someone who needs to commit this article to memory and hire Evan ASAP!! You created an “over-the-top” response to get attention? You believe all women size men up as “baby daddy material” as soon as we meet them? You believe someone who has failed miserably after seriously putting in effort over 20 years can make a good spouse and them proceed to point out your two failed live-in bf’s?? God if this is you in a comments section I can only imagine the real you on dates. As a woman I can see why you probably can’t find a serious partner. You sound over-dramatic, self-centered, slightly delusional and victim-minded. I feel you are in serious need of a real hard look in the mirror and probably some counseling. Please don’t adopt a child – you don’t come across as emotionally mature enough or positive enough. Children need a lot more than love poured into them. The fact that you are on a dating website baffles me – why are you here? Do you think this website was going to reinforce your negative and self-loathing views? These sites are geared to get people to self-reflect and take an honest hard look at what could be holding them back. If you (and the other women who agree with you) aren’t willing to REALLY do that than why are you here? Find a site where women sit around and bash and blame men all day.

    4. 18.4
      EJT

      I wouldn’t say men only reject the so-called “unattractive” women.  I am a fit 39 year old woman who looks 29.  I have never been married or have any kids, but it was my dating strategy that needed some fine tuning.  I have been rejected many times. Why, because I was too available. If a man I liked asked me out, I would say yes.  Why, because I wanted to, but come to find out, men LOVE and DESIRE a chase.  They want mystery.  They need a challenge and to know that a woman is not going to just give in at the drop of a hat.  The minute they think that you are immediately wanting a relationship, even though you may not want that, they will run.  It’s in a man’s nature to try and get something that seems unattainable.  It’s all in how you portray yourself.  Are you confident, happy, positive, fun???  These are traits men want and look for.  Same for women.  We want a confident, happy, positive, and fun man.  I don’t think age has anything to do with finding someone.  I think you will find someone when you love yourself first.

      1. 18.4.1
        Emily, the original

        EJT,

        But come to find out, men LOVE and DESIRE a chase.  They want mystery. 

        I think women do, too. That’s why the nice guy who texts 30 times a day and is dancing around trying to get your attention is not appealing. He’s too obvious. He kills all sexual tension.

        1. Dawn

          Tom10, she was quoting me and what I would have done different was really put more of an effort. In my 20’s I was busy with working and just having fun that I assumed I would meet “the one” without trying. It didn’t work that way, I met way too many no ways. I also wasted my time with guys I didn’t want to marry or didn’t want to marry me. I waited around for guys thinking they would eventually fall in love with me. In a few cases I slept with a guy way too early and found that was all he wanted from me. In a strange irony back then I dated a few single dads even though most guys were never married/no kids. Now I only want childless preferably never married and I mostly find single dads. I also find a lot of men who don’t want marriage. I would have made a point to actively seek men wanting marriage. I don’t mean at that point but eventually, even if eventually was several years away. I know several women in their early 20’s still in college and I tell them to seek a husband now if they think they want marriage. I don’t tell them to marry or even get serious now, just keep their prospects open. Otherwise they will possibly be in my situation where I am 45, never married, childless and the prospects are either dads or guys with issues or guys too shy, involved with work etc who might be interested but probably aren’t online and will take lots of work to get to them (and no guarantees).

        2. Dawn

          Emily, I equate dating to a buffet. In your 20’s the selection is fantastic. There’s a large selection of everything: soups, deserts, vegan meals, seafood etc. You can pick and choose and keep sampling the selection. In your 30’s the selection lessens. Instead of every kind of soup there’s about 10 left. Instead of hundreds of seafood dishes there are 20 varieties. There’s lots of food left. In your 40’s lots of the food left is unsanitary. There’s two soups left. There’s only a couple of meat dishes and vegan? one if lucky. Much of the food is cold or has already been sampled. Much of the food left is uncommon things and you either decide to try it or go hungry. 50’s and above? Not much is left and mostly sandwiches with a simple broth soup that’s cold. 60’s and up? You might food that is edible but most is cold or moldy.

      2. 18.4.2
        Dawn

        EJT, I used to think that but don’t now. In my opinion when I played hard to get I didn’t get the guy. The only guys I attracted were guys I didn’t want who thought I was playing hard to get. I do think though one thing many people do is think too much too soon. When I was younger I would think a date meant a long term relationship. I even got used by a few men for money or sex because of this. I take my time now (and in fact I am celibate until marriage)but wish I had done this when I was younger and quality of men was better.

        1. Emily, the original

          Dawn,

          ” …when I was younger and quality of men was better.”

          Amen to that. I wish I had done a lot of things differently when the pool of availables was much better. But I don’t think it’s playing hard to get to not want a man to text you 30 times a day or call all the time when you have barely dated. You can show interest without drooling over the person.

        2. Tom10

           
          @ Emily, the original
           
          “I wish I had done a lot of things differently when the pool of availables was much better”
           
           
          Hi Emily,
           
          If you don’t mind me asking, with the benefit of hindsight, what things would you do differently if you had a chance to do it all over again?

        3. Emily, the original

          Hi Tom10,

          If you don’t mind me asking, with the benefit of hindsight, what things would you do differently if you had a chance to do it all over again?

          I would have paid more attention to time. I guess I always thought that when I was ready, it would be ready for me. I never felt a sense of limited options until I started to look around after about the age of 40.

          When you are in your late teens/early-to-mid 20s, you go to a party and approach the man you find appealing. (Or hope he approaches you.) Must past 30 and the odds are low that that appealing man is available. In fact, much past 30 and the odds are low there will be more than one available man at the party. The process of selecting someone starts to feels unnatural because it is not based on what interests you but what is on the rack. (I suppose that’s true of dating at any age; it just seems more pronounced as you get older.)

        4. Emily, the original

          Dawn,

          I like your buffet analogy. Here is a great quote from the Kate Bolick article “All the Single Ladies” that was posted on The Atlantic’s website a few years ago.

          “We’ve arrived at the top of the staircase, finally ready to start our lives, only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of a party, most of the men gone already, some having never shown up—and those who remain are leering by the cheese table, or are, you know, the ones you don’t want to go out with.”

          That pretty much sums up dating once you are in your 40s and older. I need to change my mindset, though, because going at something with a defeated attitude is never good.

          Like you, I don’t want to date someone with kids. I don’t mind if he has been married before, but I don’t want my life to revolve around his child’s activity/school schedule. And a man who is a good father and involved with his child will be planning his life around his kid’s schedule. He has to.

        5. Dawn

          Emily, the original, I would consider guys previously married in some instances like he had a brief earlier marriage and no kids. I prefer never married but a guy like that would be a possibility assuming on several factors (like it was a Vegas or courthouse wedding would be fine, not so much a church wedding). Yeah the dads is my deal breaker and I get flack for it. They don’t realize I dated a few dads and it was a horrific experience so never again. I have seen stepparents support the kids and sometimes the ex, the drama etc. I’ll pass. 

          I’m going to look for that article because it is so true. I’ve gone to several singles groups and the guys there make me want to scream. Not that my standards are super picky looks wise but most of the guys were full blown slobs, many were perverts and sociopaths, etc. The decent looking guys were interested in the much younger or just not into me. Other decent guys weren’t doing much at all. I suspect older guys get frustrated because I don’t see most of the guys I seek out on dating sites.

        6. Emily, the original

          Dawn,

          I don’t mind if he’d been married for a long time. At my age, it’s hard enough to find someone who’s A.) available; B.) age appropriate (5 to 10 years older or younger); C.) appealing; and D.) interested in me. Those four filters REALLY narrow the field. I also want him to be childfree, which I’m well aware further narrows an already small group. I don’t want to add the caveat that the marriage had to be of short duration.

          I wonder if this happens to you. People get annoyed with me if I don’t jump at every single man who crosses my path. If a single man is a new employee where I work, there’s always this implication I should make my presence known. “There’s a new guy in IT,” someone will say. It’s usually a man bringing this to my attention.  And then if I say something like, “You mean the one who wore his backpack on both shoulders and has a pocket protector and five sharpened pencils? No, thanks,” I usually have ticked that person off.

        7. Dawn

          Emily, the original, Strangely I’ve been finding a lot of never married guys who are older (talking late 50’s and up)so it’s reassuring that there are guys like this. People say I am picky about divorced men (including people on a childfree site I used to frequent)but I have dealt with divorced guys and those who were married long just don’t seem like a match. I suppose if I met one and we clicked I may change my mind but the divorced guys I know who were married long are on a different wave length to me. That’s just my experience. Yeah I find all types of guys who aren’t interested in me and vice versa. Like the one friend I have who is a perfect match but doesn’t want anything now because he’s fighting some issues. Because I’m not having kids there’s no rush. I guess I’m childfree since I don’t have kids and not really interested but at one time was open to the idea. I know I am not interested in single dads which limits my options.

          Yeah I always have people trying to match me up and it’s always the lowest of the low. They get mad when I don’t jump for joy because I should be happy to have any man. My aunt actually unfriended me because I didn’t want to date this single dad who had kids with several women. According to her I can’t be picky. I’ve had people try to hook me up with basically guys I would never date, including men who were known to be abusive, married men (yes people have tried to match me up to be a mistress because apparently too old to be a wife), criminals (one had been arrested for child abuse), single dads, elderly men (one guy was close to 80 and at the time I was 40), and so many more. When I said I’d rather be single they would get mad. I wouldn’t mind a nerd but my experience has be nerds don’t want to date me or don’t know how. One time I asked someone to match me up with a decent guy around my age (decent job, not obese, no kids etc)and the women told me I’m not good enough for him because of my age. Huh? Maybe the guy dated younger but it was offensive because men rarely get matched up with losers (at least what I’ve seen)but they expect us to do so.

        8. Emily, the original

          Dawn,

          Yeah I always have people trying to match me up …  They get mad when I don’t jump for joy because I should be happy to have any man.

          I get that all the time. I agreed to a date with a guy I work with. I was explaining to another man I work with that I had turned down his offer of a second date. There was nothing wrong with him, but I just wasn’t feeling it. I mean, I felt nothing. I probably never should have agreed to the first date.

          “Did you say no because you didn’t want to go out with him again or because you didn’t want to have sex with him?” my friend asked.

          “Both,” I said.

          “What are you going to do? Sit home and watch ‘I Love Lucy’ reruns?” he asked.

          “Yes, ” I said. “I would rather do that than have to expend the energy and time on a date with someone I’m not interested in.”

          He didn’t get it. He’d rather be dating anyone than no one.

           

      3. 18.4.3
        Sophie

        This isn’t true at least to me.

        I don’t like games. If a guy likes games, he is out. Just now what I want.

        If he is into me, then he is. How simple is that. He will appreciate the time that I have for him.

        However, when he is not into me but ok with me and look for the next best thing while seeing me?, then it doesn’t matter whether you make yourself available or not because he will drop you like a hot potatoe when the next best thing comes around. If you don’t make yourself available and play that game, then he won’t just talk to you because he knows he can find someone just like you next Friday.

        The same thing applies to men. If woman is into you and you text her 20 times a day, she will love it and say he is very attentive. However if she is not into you but you text her that often, she will say you are a stalker or a frick.

         

  19. 19
    Karl R

    *yawn* said: (#19)
    “dont you realise that women size men up as daddy potential the moment they set eyes on them unless theyre just a fling?”
    “Why do women ultimately want to marry? Because society tells us we have to in order to have children, duh.”

    Really? A couple of my friends got married last year. They’re in their 50s. Their kids (from previous marriages) are grown and gone. They have no interest in having more kids. They were cohabiting for a couple years before the wedding and they weren’t keeping it a secret, so morality and social pressure clearly weren’t a concern.

    If your reasoning is correct, what possible reason did they have to get married?

    “I do think that someone who has been using the same dating strategies for 20 years can make a wonderful spouse.”

    If someone continues to use the same dating strategies for 20 years, they will continue to have the same degree of dating success (or complete lack thereof).

    If those dating strategies are keeping them from getting married, than its completely irrelevant whether they’d make a wonderful spouse. Nobody will ever know.

    “Ive had two live in relationships, … but I guess in your mind that makes me damaged goods.”

    Are you mistaking me for Michael? I’ve dated several wonderful women who were divorcees.

    However, you come across as being pessimistic, bitter and blaming men and society for your current circumstances. So for those reasons, you come across to me as being damaged goods.

    I doubt that’s much concern to you. I’m clearly not what you’re interested in, so my opinion shouldn’t count for much. But it’s possible that other men get the same impression.

    “I believe that many, many average looking women who are NOW in their thirties and forties are going to miss out on mates in the next decade,”
    “whats an average-looking woman to do”

    I spent this weekend at a convention that primarily appealed to “geeks”. Men outnumbered women 3 to 1 (maybe 4 to 1). The average woman there was below average in appearance. The vast majority of the women there were married or in long-term relationships. Most of the time, their husband/boyfriend was better looking, financially stable, etc. (In a couple cases, the man & woman were about equal in attractiveness.)

    If the odds are so heavily stacked against “average” women, how did all these “below average” geeky women succeed?

    1. 19.1
      Kay

      Answer you own questions Karl. I believe you are old enough to answer those as you were trying to challenge others. Don’t you realize you are very shallow and full of it? 

    2. 19.2
      Ren

      I attend “geek” conventions and see the exact same thing: unattractive women with husbands and boyfriends.  I’m above average in looks, being referred to as “beautiful” or “gorgeous” by both sexes all the time. I still don’t have a man.  And yes I’ve been looking for almost 20 years, and no, online dating didn’t work for me either during that time, so I stopped doing it. 

      I think with the geek girls it could simply be matter of having an interest and being involved in an activity that involve lots of men at a young age. The problem is that too many women participate in activities that involve other women or gay men. I am also of a certain age, divorced and a single parent and I didn’t figure this out until later in life.  

      I’ve dated “within the basics,” not having an unrealistic list of expectations. I have no height restrictions, I don’t demand a guy must make a certain income (as long as he’s employed and responsible with what he has), I don’t care what kind of car a man drives, and I date across color lines. I’ve dated men who are also divorced and/or single dads, and they were no more interested in a serious relationship than the single, childless men I’ve dated.  The only men who have actually tried to date me have all been married, and I don’t mess with married men at all. 

      Some people will just never find anyone and that’s the way it is.  

  20. 20
    Sayanta

    To Yawn-

    I noticed you put an emphasis on “Western” in your post. Have you found Eastern men to be different? If so- why not go for them instead of just giving up on men?

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