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We live together. Whenever I have to go to a social function, it shows that he has been on Match.com reviewing matches sent to him. I told him it was upsetting and we had a little verbal disagreement. After another social event that I attended with girlfriends, I found that he had done the same thing again. This time I am not saying anything, but feel he is always looking for something better.
How do I know this? My girlfriend who is on Match.com looked at his site for me (which is still posted) and said he had been on that day, just a few hours ago, which was while I was gone. Is he addicted? Is this normal human behavior? —Barb
An existential question:
If a man cheats openly on his live-in girlfriend, is he actually a cheater?
I don’t know, Barb, but the picture you’re painting is of a really unfortunate arrangement.
Imagine a company that lets its CEO cook the books and embezzle from them because he’s a smart, charismatic guy. The shareholders would have every right to demand an ouster.
A man who is openly defying his two-year girlfriend to stay active on Match.
A woman who has so little self-esteem that she puts up with such defiant behavior.
Forgive me for the self-esteem line. I don’t know you. I’m not a psychologist. But your relationship does suggest a level of patience and tolerance that far exceeds the norm. And I’m not saying that in a good way.
Imagine a company that lets its CEO cook the books and embezzle from them because he’s a smart, charismatic guy.
The shareholders would have every right to demand an ouster.
But if the company knows and doesn’t fire him, whose fault is it that the behavior continues? You got it: the company!
And if I’m the CEO, I’m gonna keep on openly embezzling.
Why not? There are no consequences to my behavior.
I do hate to be the one to burst your bubble, Barb.
But really, what do you think he’s DOING on Match each day? Do you think he’s just browsing, like people browse through the mall?
Or would you guess that a man who has a membership on a dating site is actually, you know… USING that site for its intended purposes — to meet new women?
Put it this way:
I don’t go to Amazon to browse books. I go there to buy.
I don’t go to the gym to not work out. I go there to swim.
There is simply no viable, reasonable, acceptable response he can make — even if, somehow, he has not met ANY new women since “committing” to you.
I’ll be the first to admit — online dating can be addicting — especially when you’re getting a lot of attention. There IS a temptation, for both men and women, to try to continually “trade up”. But the whole point of dating — for most of us, anyway — is to find one person that makes you want to quit altogether.
If your live-in boyfriend doesn’t want to quit, he shouldn’t be your boyfriend.
Oh, and by the way, don’t ask him to take his profile down. That’s not your solution. He’s already proven to be the worst kind of selfish, insensitive prick who can’t be trusted with slippery concepts such as “monogamy”.
The only way to fix this is to dump this him when you’re done reading this.
You probably won’t do it, Barb, but I’m really hoping that you do.
DinaStrange says
He is looking for the “grass is greener”. If he doesn’t think you are good enough, why would you think he is? I know you are living together and it’s hard to leave, but better do it now, than later. Behavior will not change and Evan is right. That’s not bursting a bubble, that’s being honest.
Rosa says
Barb – see it clearly: he does not want you.
david says
Wow — great advice. Spot on. And yeah, I doubt she’ll do it either.
Paul Mawdsley says
Sorry Evan, while I agree with your assessment of the boyfriend and the ultimate outcome of Barb’s situation, I disagree with your assessment of Barb and her self-esteem. My sense of things suggests Barb is seeking answers. She is trying to raise awareness and make sense of things. This is not an act of low self-esteem. In fact, it is just the opposite. She sounds like she is struggling with a conflict between what her gut is telling her and what her head is telling her and is seeking synthesis between competing views without disowning the information from either. I would say this is very healthy.
I’m guessing Barb is getting mixed messages from her boyfriend and is finding it very hard to make sense of him. Her questions are an attempt to seek help understand his behaviour so she can make a decision. The first step in determining what to do in an emergency situation is determining if it really is an emergency situation. While I agree that this is an emergency situation, and my gut is telling me Barb should get the hell out, I understand that Barb can’t see this for herself yet, at least with her head. She needs help seeing it for herself and making sense of what her gut is reacting to so her self-esteem can show its true colours and give the bf the boot.
From Barb’s letter I suspect her boyfriend is an all too typical narcissistic type personality. This would make him behave in predictable ways that are very charming, very charismatic, very exciting and very attentive but always there is the sense that he can’t commit his feelings all the way down. It will feel like he can lavish attention and gifts but can’t really connect from the heart. The most telling sign, if this is the case, is the feeling that he is only giving to get something in return. It is not about a sense of sharing and caring and acting from a place of core connection. Everything he gives is designed to gain power in the relationship. Openly displaying his online activity is openly displaying his power in the relationship, showing pride in being able to manipulate another’s perception to the point where he can get away with continued online dating activity.
If my sense is true, he is doing his best to keep Barb confused and baffled. It will feel like, when challenged, he will twist the truth to spin any perception of him to a positive light. He will have a way of turning any attempt to pin a negative on him into a finger pointing at someone else. Anyone captured by his spell will find themselves in a spin, doubting themselves and wondering where their sense of reality went. It will feel like it’s hard to find solid ground, hard to know where the truth lies, hard to trust your judgement.
Barb, this is just my sense of things, my theory, based on a small amount of information and a lifetime of experience that helps me recognize the meaning of patterns in the subtleties of behaviour very quickly. If any of this sounds familiar, you need to take a serious and objective look at who you boyfriend is. You need to reach out to friends to get their input on his behaviour and his character. After you make sense of him, you will know what you need to do. My guess is that you will find Evan is right and dump him.
Good luck.
Ann says
You are very intuitive and spot on.
I put it to my 5yr on again off again bf that unless he wanted to marry me and build me a house, get off dating sites (which I’d recently found out about through a mutual friend) and consistently treat me with consideration he could forget it.
He replied “What do I get?”
I replied “love and devotion.”, but it confirmed that all he thinks about is how things affect him. He had all the excuses for why he was still on a dating site- just that I didn’t buy them. I said to him why don’t you open your mouth a bit wider and put the other foot in.
He left it a few days and tried to get back together again. My heart is finally caught up with my head and I just know that nothing will ever change and no good will ever come of it. In fact I said to him that I would now need a brain transplant to ever trust him and that much of the time we were together I have felt like I was on the spin cycle in a washing machine- no-one wants to feel this way.
I decided that whatever his problem was, that I would no longer make it my problem- and yes, I genuinely loved him, but enough is enough! It took me many years to finally pull the pin and absolutely know that no matter how good the good times are- there is no real commitment or consistency. It is likely that he will never change.
Jane says
great answer. I too am looking for answers. Love my guy but he is active on 2sights….. I know what I have to do x
Dorie Larue says
I thought Barb’s answer was effective, but your analysis is perfect. I’ve bookmarked this and will read it again. I was in the same fix as this woman, dumped him, but keep seeking to understand. That is not necessarily a good thing. Thank you.
Linda Turner says
I need this inscribed on my soul so I never, ever forget again! Thank you.
Lita says
I agree with you, 100%. And I appreciate you breaking this situation down – so eloquently – while not putting Barb down.
david says
(part 2) In fact, I will suggest another thing the OP will not do as well, while he gone one day, pack up your s**t (at least some of it) and stay at a friends for couple to a few days and leave a note that says, “Now you have all the time you need to be on Match.com” — that kind of wake up call, the kind of GAME CHANGER is what he needs.
If you just (TRY) and break up with him, he’ll give you a million reasons not to and you’ll stay.
A couple nights away — and denied the REAL THING — will sober him right up.
But, if he’s been two years and she’s tolerated this crap — it’s unlikely she’ll make a stand / move like that.
But I really hope she does, because that is what is needed (for her, him and the relationship)
Ruby says
Shouldn’t the cancellation of Match.com accounts precede living together? Also, you can browse Match without keeping a profile up. This guy is still paying the monthly fee so that he can continue to read, and no doubt respond, to emails. What a narcissistic jerk! It’s time for an ultimatum: Me or Match.com. Since he’ll probably choose the latter, be sure to have your bags already packed.
Dorie Larue says
He will just become more clever at hiding it I bet.
Katherine Wakefield says
It’s a no brainer. He’s keeping his hand in to keep his options open. It’s that simple. He’s not shopping at a clothes store, hes shopping at an online dating site. She’s being kept as the not quite good enough but good enough for now girl. I would dump his sorry behind, work on myself and why i’m prepared to sacrifice myself by putting up with this kind of behaviour!
Nicole says
This is nuts, but I guess not surprising.
I mean, some people will go to their graves believing that they need to find someone hotter, younger, richer, etc. than what they currently have.
So this guy sounds like a real or wannabe silver fox who is still playing the odds.
And it’s not far fetched to wonder about the self-esteem of a lady who tolerates this from a live-in boyfriend who is also a senior citizen. Nuts.
So funny, I read the title thinking it was going to be someone much younger who was trying to rush things.
But I wonder if her tolerance of it is fear of being alone, esp. if she is the same age demographic as her BF. She could be tolerating it b/c finding men that age who aren’t too deluded to date someone their own age is hard .
We already know that Match.com creates a harmful illusion of choice that makes people think that the thousands of available singles means that they can always trade up or hold out for a perfect mate. And I’m sure this guy is messaging (and creeping out) women half his age.
JD says
As I told one guy who was interested enough to keep dating me occasionally but not contact me regularly, I am not a back-burner girl. Don’t keep me on while looking for something ‘better.’ I give someone my full attention and deserve the same.
I always see dating profiles that say ‘In a Relationship Now’ and one that said “Married now’. So why is their profile even there?! Does this happen more with men? (I don’t look at women’s profiles.) If you think the grass is greener somewhere else you can jolly well get out of my pasture and go see. But the gate will be locked behind you.
Dorie Larue says
He will just start hiding it.
Donna says
I too don’t think that Barb suffers from low self-esteem, but just wants to make sure she is doing the right thing before she does it, both in her head and in her heart – to know that she has done her best and is not over-reacting. Do what David #5 suggested above, and as Evan has said in the past, if he lets you leave, you have your answer. If he doesn’t let you leave, then you have a real committed relationship. “Men don’t understand your words, but they do understand your absence.”
Evan Marc Katz says
@Donna – it’s not “if he lets you leave”. He WON’T let her leave. He’ll say he’s taking down his profile and that he’s a changed man. He will do what’s necessary to keep the status quo. And then he’ll go back to online dating, which is what he’s been doing for 2 years. The answer isn’t to negotiate with him. The answer is to cut him off.
l says
I’ve been this woman and in this situation. I did try to “repair” things but not for long, I realized I was being played. He’s doing it to his new girlfriend now.
I too wanted to understand and make sense of things. Why? Because maybe there was a chance if I found that little piece of the puzzle. It doesn’t work. It will never work. You’re wasting your time. All the analyzing and trying to find out the ‘why’s’ add up to nothing.
You must cut ties and move on if this isn’t the kind of relationship you want. And by the way, this behavior just transfers to other areas of life. Even if he straightens out with the online dating hell likely show his defiance in other ways – money, career decisions etc. He doesn’t want to be a team player. You can take consolation though that it’s not just you. It would happen with anyone he partnered with.
Nickymnky says
AMEN Evan!!
Paul Mawdsley says
I disagree with David #5. The answer isn’t to escalate the game. The answer is to step out of the game and pull the covers off…step out of the Matrix and see what is real. A relationship can be so much more than the push and pull in a power game. Step out of the game, see the truth, then choose to stay or leave. No game.
Evan #11 is right. I would expect the bf will do what he has to do to keep the game going until he can turn it in his favour and continue milking as much as he can from the relationship. Engaging in the game, in any way whatsoever, will give him what he wants: access to your eyes so he can see himself, access to your heart so he can feel his value and access to your body so he can pleasure himself. This is what you are dealing with IF he truly is narcissistic. The attention from online dating is just more food for the narcissist. This is why he won’t stop. The narcissist needs to fill his empty soul.
Sophie says
Paul,
Thank you for your posts. I didn’t get it and still having a lot of difficulty understanding it but you put it perfectly. I’m like why would any sane person choose an ACCOUNT over a real person. But as you stated, the attention a NARCISSIST receives from as many different women as possible is what they seek. They don’t want a relationship, and certainly not just one woman because it isn’t enough to feed their egos. They always need and crave more. Once they have one woman, they quickly start seeking others for more narcissistic supply. He was so charming at first. He would call all the time and text throughout the day just to say he was thinking of me. Then once he won me he became distant. The calls and texts became less frequent. It seems like he was just doing the bare minimum to keep me hanging on. I was always confused about the relationship and where I stood. He never expressed any emotion or affection whatsoever. I’ve never met a man so cold. When I caught him online he turned it around on me and said I was the one who was cheating because I never deleted my account. Yes, I still had my account but had stopped going on when we got together. That is another trait of the narcissist, they can never accept blame and have to always turn it around on you. He also said his friends told him I was cheating on him, because the narcissist must always be the victim in the eyes of others. They have to paint you as the villain. Thank God I walked away and not playing games with him. Now I just need to heal and its very difficult. I’m in a lot of pain but eventually I will heal.
Heather says
@Paul Mawdsley – I agree with your assessment of the situation.
As far as Barb is concerned – just walk and never never look back.
I was in a similar situation up until 6 months ago. I was in a relationship with someone for over a year – we lived together for a year.
It’s normal to still be online dating or dating in general for the first month you’re getting to know someone. You’re still getting to know a person – and you don’t know if he/she will interest you or you will interest them past a date or two. You don’t know if he/she is looking for a relationship or is just interested in the one-two date experience. So it is perfectly normal to not be commited in the first month you date someone. But dating is a way to find someone who you want to try to build something with. Once you’ve identified that there is someone you want to spend more time with – and live with – this is when you put your efforts into seeing if you can make the relationship work and see if you can build something together.
I went through something very similar – and first he will tell you that he’s not looking for women to date – he’s just looking for friends. He will tell you that all of these dating websites is how people make new friends. He will tell you that you make new male friends all the time and so he’s making new friends – and you might really be making new friends but the key of course is the difference between making a friend or new acquaintance and dating someone. He’ll tell you that he’s not cheating on you. He’ll tell you that people like to gossip and make drama. He’ll tell you that he wakes up with you every morning – shouldn’t that prove he wants to be with you. He’ll tell you that he has health problems and financial problems and problems with his family – and his grandfather might even pass away. He’ll tell you that you should be more emotionally supportive of him while he goes through these difficulties and that you’re causing himself and yourself stress by worrying about all of this. He’ll tell you that you’re the only woman he wants to be with and the only woman he cares about and the only woman in his life for over a year. He’ll tell you that he’s deeply hurt that the woman he built a life with for over a year is participating in baseless witch-hunts. He’ll tell you that you come from a religious background so you are not familiar with social norms in the secular society. He’ll tell you that all of these women think that just because he paid a little attention to them that he wants to date them. And the list goes on for all of the things he’ll tell you. When they know they’re caught they tend to babble left and right.
The moment that you walk Barb – the moment that I walked is when I realized that he was unable to do anything with his time other than be on websites to find ‘friends’, go out with guys cruising for girls, call up girls, etc. Ironically, I told all of my new male friends that I was already in a relationship so that there would be no misunderstanding. 90% of his new female ‘friends’ never got the memo that he was already involved – not just involved but living with someone. I was too trusting – I had a very busy life and had no desire to do investigations into anything. I wasn’t suspicious at all. I had friends, and hobbies, and meetings and was very fulfilled in my life so that I unfortunately was not suspicious enough. I never checked his phone or went through his emails – so it took some time for the behavior to have gotten so bad before I really noticed how bad it was. The moment that I walked away – kicked him out – is when a lightbulb went off in my head that all of this was a front – it all was lies and there was a world I didn’t know about that existed. The moment I walked was when another lightbulb went off and I concluded that he was the one causing all of us the stress – that if he was really torn up about his grandfather dying and everythign else happening in his life and if he really needed me not to rock the boat then he should be running around with other women – I separated my sympathy for him from the fact that I didn’t deserve to have to deal with s— like that. The moment I walked is when a couple of the women had contacted me (over the same 48 hour period) and it became clear that some of his physical attentions to them were more than ‘friendly’. The moment I walked was when he’s making fake phone calls to cover up for his activities – he tells me he’s going to watch a movie at his cousin and then right in front of me makes arrangements to watch a movie at a girl’s house – and then covers up by pretending to call the cousin and tell the cousin that he’ll meet him ‘there’ (he won’t say the address of course b/c then i would know but he’s operating under the assumption that I think the cousin knows where ‘there’ is). The phone rings in the middle of the fake phone call to the cousin as he’s pretending to actually converse. He’ll say whoops the call was dropped. And then another lightbulb goes off in my head about all the times calls he was ‘in the middle of’ were mysteriously dropped and it all hits like a rollercoaster. I was too stunned to say anything about him going out that night. Naturally, he did not return home that night and in the morning walks in, asks for his favorite omlette and says he stayed at his cousin. The moment that i walked is when I stood there in shock – somehow making the omlette – and realizing that I would have nobody to blame but myself if there was a repeat of the faux-phone-call-to-cousin/girl-movie tomorrow – or every single day for the rest of our time together.
When all of this hits you, Barb, you will ask him to leave – I asked him to leave – I asked him to leave several times. But he failed to leave. I had to be persistent for the sake of those ‘hard of hearing’ over the course of a couple weeks till I reminded him every conversation about him leaving and that it finally would be today – that he would leave today – that I was not dragging out the breakup any more. For your safety, if the guy in question has a slightly violent rage – which I unfortunately found out when things went down south – you might need to wait a little to pick the best moment. You might need to have friends on call. Even better if you can somehow convince him that it was his idea to leave (it was my apartment so he would be the one to leave – if it’s his apartment then you can leave at once). He might leave and might send you threatening emails. You might eventually have to get a restraining order or get someone else involved to get it to stop. Your boyfriend is 60 – mine was 27 – it doesn’t matter what the age is – it takes immense work to actually change – and most people don’t have what it takes to do it.
Barb – your sanity is worth it. Leave now.
Valleyforgelady says
Barb…………… I used to be a drama addict…..it filled a void that was not healthy! With Evan for a long enough time that I feel I have been rehabilitated. Reading your story makes me sick. This guy is a major jerk. Get yourself to a doctor for a STD test. If he is living with you…kick him out! If you are living with him….make other arrangements NOW. This guy is hopeless and has been at this crap for years. I know…I had a guy like this in my life…and I am so embarassed that I took this emotional abuse.
I have heard of guys like this who were elderly and playing these games at the nursing home!
Place some value on your dignity, your health, and say NEXT. You will never be sorry you did!
Angie says
Barb,
Quick question – Does his profile say he is single and looking for love?
I never used match.com, but on okcupid, several people wrote that they were in a relationship, but had met some good friends that hadn’t clicked romantically on the site and were still open to meeting new people as friends-only. At first, I thought it was strange, but I do know people personally who have made friends with online dating, but people exclusively looking for friendship should have that spelled out (Does he?).
For the most part, this does raise eyebrows for a few reasons. He is not 25, in a new city looking for love OR friendship. He is 60, living with his girlfriend, and showing a lack of respect. I suggest you stop having your girlfriend online-stalk him and ask him directly what the appeal of browsing profiles and emailing these women is.
It seems you are focusing on the WHAT: Cheating vs. Non-Cheating; Your Feelings of Hurt and Betrayal, instead of the WHY: Why is he motivated to go online and do this?
Just say your friend, Susie (or whoever) saw his profile come up, and ask him what he gets out of it. If he can’t give a non-defensive, straight answer, then use some sense and make a sound judgement. Maybe he is just bored, and he is treating match.com as if it is a facebook page… Tell him to sign up for facebook!
helene says
I have been involved with two men who still had their profile up and conversed with other women rather beyond the time I thought they should have taken it down. The first one was a stunning looking guy, womaniser, who said he wanted me to be his girlfriend after about 3 months but actually just wanted to keep me “in his stables” whilst he was constantly on the look out for new conquests. I realised quickly he would never be a one woman man and left him. Weirdly, I kind of wish him the best – he’s being true to himself. He will be a woman chaser till the day he dies – good luck to him.
The second one was completely different – clearly keen on me, rather in awe of me in fact, but a widower recently out of a long marriage who was rather insecure and had a bit of a “kid in a sweet shop” attraction to the dating site. I cut him a bit of slack as I was the first person he’d dated since losing his wife, and although I thought it was rather immature of him to be voraciously logging on to dating sites once we’d started sleeping together, I let him get on with it and didn’t really worry about it too much. No doubt I would have drawn the line at about the 6 month mark but we didn’t get that far – he sent me a 3 page e-mail full of the most luridly disgusting sexual fantasies one day and it put me right off him so we broke up!
Jusr saying, this second guy wasn’t a player at all but just an insecure man hooked on the attention…. so that possibility exists for barbara too.
Dorie Larue says
Same here. What is this new phenomenon, that guys want to live with someone in a loving relationship, but then have this other secret side to them in which they are playahs or users. I don’t know which is worse.
nathan says
Unlike OKCupid, which has appeal to people beyond simply dating, Match.com is not a place where a man in a two year relationship should be active – period. It’s not normal behavior, nor is it respectful. I kind of doubt this is the only problem in your relationship, Barb.
But instead of up and leaving today, take a good look at the rest of the relationship, and see if Match.com is the only major problem. Because odds are it isn’t. And with that awareness, you can leave him tomorrow, knowing that it wasn’t just some odd behavior that was the problem. But that the whole relationship was off, perhaps from the beginning.
Dorie Larue says
You are wise. The guys on this site have blown me away. Thanks. You get this creepy feeling after awhile, all guys are like your significant jerk. Thanks for disproving!
Jules says
Online dating is for just that… DATING. It is not for finding friends. Finding friends can be a side benefit to pursuing people to date, but it is not why people are there, if they are being honest. Anyone who says they are there to find friends is trying to justify remaining on the site. I don’t care if two people in a relationship agree to it, but most people don’t, and I’ve heard that “I’m just trying to meet friends” excuse more than once and it’s hogwash.
I’ve also had the experience of having someone I was supposedly in an exclusive relationship with try to “spin” it back on me as a character flaw when I discovered through a friend he was still online. He was upset because he felt I didn’t trust him, had snooped on him, was “monitoring” him, etc… without ever acknowledging that what he was doing was a betrayal (we had agreed to take profiles down months earlier). Yup, total narcissist. The most I ever got from him, before we broke up, was that there is nothing wrong with “just looking” and I was just way overreacting.
Barb — leave him. He’s completely untrustworthy.
Some other Steve says
Do we know how old the OP is relative to her fella?
Anyway, the goal of the OP is not to have the guy pull down his profile, it’s to have the guy want to pull down his profile (which means that asking him to do it probably doesn’t get what she really wants). Seems to me like the guy is sending a message so clear that only the OP could miss it.
Good luck, Barb.
Dorie Larue says
Dang, there are guys on this blog that are restoring my faith in men. 🙂
elisabeth says
Do yourself a favour and leave. I agree with @Paul Mawdsley, he is probably spinning you an intricate web of lies and deceptions which makes you feel unsure and doubt yourself.
I had a similar thing happen with a man I was involved with for 4 years. From the very beginning he was sleeping over at his ex, vowing they were just best friends now. I felt uncomfortable with that but only became seriously concerned when I was told I could not meet the woman because she didn’t want to meet any of his girlfriends. He also stayed with other exes and chatted up new women along the way, all the way declaring his love for me. Long story short, we ended up in a triangle with a woman in France who was totally oblivious of his game. Not surprisingly really.
So Barb, spare yourself the hurt down the line and don’t be a doormat like I was for too long and get out.
Amy says
Don’t ask for him to take down the profile. Just walk run. If he were the man you want him to be, you wouldn’t have had to even ask. You deserve to be with someone who doesn’t have to be convinced to focus all his attention on your relationship.
(And if he did take it down…would you find yourself wondering what other ways he is trying to meet other women?)
henriette says
This is bigger than where your relationship is right now. I think you need to look at this as an issue of character. What kind of person lives with a partner for 2 years but stays, looking around on a dating website even if he’s not actually “cheating”? What kind of person remains on that dating website after his live-in partner tells him that it upsets her? What we should all be looking for in our SO, above almost all else, is sterling character. Your lover doesn’t have it so give him the heave-ho. It’s better to be alone than with someone like that.
Saint Stephen says
My boyfriend — who is over 60 — has had more dates than anyone I know and still receives notifications of women who have emailed him constantly. He has told me about some of them and still hears from many of them.
By reading barb’s post i get the sense that her boyfriend is a reasonably attractive guy who does pretty well with the ladies. Such men rarely stay with one women for long and as such constantly looking to trade-up for the next best thing that goes about in skirts. And sadly, sometimes they do this right until the day they kick the bucket. I admit this to be a gross generalization but one that is also true.
Attractive women harness their looks as a leverage to hook the best man, while attractive men use their looks as a leverage to bed many women as possible.
Here’s my candid advice for barb:
Quit having sex with him and put your profile back up. When he see’s you online actively searching, he’ll be the one to broach up the subject and only then you both can reach a reasonable compromise about the issue. I think is high-time you let him know that if he wants to play the game; two can play the game.
I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact barb tolerated his sleazy behavior for two straight years – that certainly tells me that she’s got a high threshold for psychological pains.
Jewel says
Paul Mawdsley @4 and 12. What you describe is spot on and so well written. You have described the narcissist perfectly. I was dating one for some 9 months, and it was his charm and positive behaviour that drew me in until I started to receive confusing messages that had me doubting myself. When I discovered betrayal, it was as Evan described in his @11 post, he changed his behaviour to keep the status quo. It is as you say Evan, do not negotiate with a man like this, just cut him off.
Leesa says
isn’t that type of person that Paul Mawdsley and heather (13) describing a sociopath? i personally think they are describing the tendencies of a sociopath. i really like how paul has articulated his comments. i think they are very insightful and helpful in my understanding of why sociopaths do what they do
mia says
How is staying active on a dating site after you’re supposed to be in monogamous relationship ‘sending mixed messages’?
I’ve learned that actions are far louder than words. He might say nice things, flatter you etc, but if his actions aren’t consistent with his words, he’s sending a message, loud and clear. It’s just up to us whether or not we want to read it.
Barb can do better. Anyone in a situation like that can do better. Don’t we all deserve to be with someone who is caring and genuine when it comes to how they treat us?
Heather says
I agree with the poster who advised the OP to pack her stuff and leave a note about being on Match.com.
I was in a very similar situation. I dated a total narcissist, two years ago. He was in frequent contact with exes, making me feel unwanted and disrespected and though he knew how I felt, continued to see them anyways. He became very controlling, and got very nasty one day when I objected to his behavior and condescending attitude. He told me “DO NOT contact me about this issue again today.”
So, I decided to follow his instructions. But I followed them too well. That day, was my wakeup call that he would only get more demanding and verbally abusive. So, I just stopped talking to him completely. I was open to discussion of things if he should choose to contact me, but he never did. I gave myself a one-week deadline and that if he chose not to contact me by then, I would consider the relationship ended. The deadline passed. He made one half-assed attempt at reaching out, but by Facebook and it was not a personal message, it was directed at “a very dear friend who has influenced me more than she will ever know.”
Three months later, I wrote him a letter detailing why I was done dealing with his narcissistic, rude, abusive behaviors.
The OP really needs to leave this guy, he sounds like a total jackass and totally selfish to boot. Yuck.
Ruby says
You know, we can call the boyfriend a sociopath, but who moves in with a guy who still has his online dating profile up? I disagree with the person who said this isn’t about Barb’s lower self-esteem. His treatment of Barb is abusive, but she is putting up with it. She writes, “(he)…has had more dates than anyone I know and still receives notifications of women who have emailed him constantly. He has told me about some of them and still hears from many of them.” Of course, the other women are not aware of his living situation. I’ll bet this isn’t the only problem in this relationship.
Why does he feel the need not only to continue to contact other women, but to tell Barb about these other women? Why is she tolerating this? In the immortal words of Dan Savage, “DTMFA.”
Paul Mawdsley says
Hi Leesa. There is a definite difference between a sociopath (called Antisocial Personality Disorder in the DSM IV) and a narcissist (or Narcissistic Personality Disorder). You can see Wiki for the different assessment criteria. And there is also narcissism as a personality trait that exists quite normally in all of us from time to time. Unfortunately, the DSM IV is a product of the movement over the last 30 years or so for psychology, as a science, to become more “objective” and less intuitive, so the criteria describe the outwards signs of these disorders without providing any insight into what’s really going on inside the box. I like to approach things a little differently, using empathy and intuition to see inside things, more in the spirit of Freud and Jung and other early explorers.
The way I see it, the difference between the narcissist and the sociopath hinges around the function of empathy in the person. The sociopath functions without empathy but has a strong core self. Empathy is completely shut down. A sociopath has no sense of another person’s emotional or intuitive perspective other than what is communicated overtly. A sociopath operates from a sense of boredom and a need for entertainment without real care for another individual or for any sense of social norms, societal rules or connection to community.
I see the narcissist has having empathy but lacking a core self. He has a void and emptiness at his centre and operates from an overwhelming need to fill that void. Without a core self he has no genuine self-esteem so his primary drive is to fill the void and compensate for the self-esteem he lacks. He can never get enough of using empathy in a twisted form to feel and see himself through someone else’s eyes. He feeds himself through manipulating other’s views and feelings of him.
According to Nathaniel Branden, self-esteem is made up of 2 components: self-value and self-confidence. Without a core self, there is no core self-value so the narcissist consumes the value of himself that he feels empathically through other people’s eyes. Since self-confidence comes from our confidence in our ability to feed our needs, the narcissist’s confidence is based on his ability to manipulate the perceptions of those around him to fill his inner void. The narcissist has all kinds of defense mechanisms designed to allow in only positive empathic information about himself and all kinds of control systems designed to generate this positive feedback.
The narcissist looks a lot like the sociopath because his primary defense mechanism is to not care about the person he is feeding on when that person’s needs are seen as conflicting with his. Early in a relationship the narcissist thrives on the positive feedback of young love so there is no conflict with caring for the other person. As his lover’s perspective starts to become less euphoric and more reality based, the narcissist resists, stops caring and implements the control systems created to maintain positive feedback. The narcissist is a paradox of using empathy without caring. He is only able to exist through empathy of another’s perspective while not caring about the person whose perspective he is consuming.
Back to the main thread…Barb’s bf sounds more like a narcissist than a sociopath. He strikes me as someone who has a void and emptiness at his core, who needs to experience his value through another’s eyes and will not let caring about someone else get in his way when he’s filling his void.
Jo says
One of the most amazingly insightful, and accurate, observation of a narcissist I have ever read. Spot on.
And I should know … I’ve been living with one for nearly two years! But i now know what his problem is, and maybe why he does what he does. I’m going to do a lot of reflecting about his behaviour patterns in relation to me. There have been a hell of a lot of behaviours too! From this I can make an informed decision as my situation mirrors barbs, plus lots of other nasty stuff. My narcissist can’t leave his ex alone either. He freaks when he gets caught out and turns very nasty.
Karmic Equation says
Dump him, Jo.
Not because he’s a narcissist, but because he won’t leave his ex alone and turns nasty.
It doesn’t matter what his personality is if he engages in behavior that is detrimental to your relationship and to you.
Don’t justify bad partner-behavior because you’re afraid to be single.
LC2 says
Wow, Paul Mawdsley is 100% spot on, I lived with a man with NPD and it was a roller coaster ride I chose to finally get off. They will keep your head spinning unless you go no contact. My ex did not leave me alone for 4 years after I broke up with him. How could a woman leave him? He was charming, successful, generous and very smart. Perfect man right? Not exactly. It all came with a price and that price was my dignity and security. I left what could have been a life of financial security to live month to month as a single mother of 2 boys in college and wouldn’t trade it for the world. Be strong and get out….unless you don’t mind him feeding off of you like a vampire.
Karmic Equation says
Great explanation, Paul.
Lita says
Wow! Thanks Paul.
Mary Anne says
I’m currently in the same situation but we have only been dating a couple of months. Needless to say, there are better men out there and you shouldn’t need to “ask” him to remove his profile if he really was in a committed relationship with you. He would have already done it. Run….just run. This man is nothing but trouble for you!
susan says
Seriously? He TELLS her about it? How kind of her to listen. NOT!
YES he’s a narcissist. YES she’s a mug for putting up with it. He’s 60 for goodness sake, nothings going to change here.
As per Evans continuing advice: ”sorry this is not working for me. goodbye”
thats the only way. Ultimatums don’t work and neither does game playing.
Being honest and having good boundaries does.
Jewel says
Ruby @28- Maybe she didn’t know the profile was up until her friend informed her of the fact. I dated a man for nearly a year in what we both agreed was an exclusive relationship. There were all the hallmarks and landmarks of a committed long term relationship and I trusted him completely. It all went south when a friend told me he saw him at a singles night. This information was hard to believe at first because his behaviour to me seemed committed the entire time we were together. This caused me to be confused, doubt myself, doubt my friends agenda and doubt my boyfriend. It took me sometime to find out first hand that my boyfriend was a liar and cheater despite him appearing to be a caring, committed partner to me. I know I dont suffer low self esteem, but I was certainly very confused because his actions to me weren’t congruent with the story I was being told. Maybe it has been the same with the OP.
Margo says
I’m sorry everyone, but Evan is right in all aspects on this one. Yes, this woman’s self-esteem is in the toilet, or she wouldn’t be putting up with her live-in boyfriend shopping on dating sites. His actions are a blatant display of disrespect for her. He needs to go. He’s trash. Period.
Also, Evan is right in that this man will only lie about his intentions when she threatens to kick him out. It’s very clear how dishonest he is. He’s a user, and a scumbag. The only solution is to show him the door. That is, if she thinks she deserves something better. She needs to find a good therapist so that she can find out why she has put up with this man for as long as she has.
Great advice, Evan!
Ruby says
Jewel #32<<Maybe she didn’t know the profile was up until her friend informed her of the fact.>>
The OP wrote, “Since we have dated for almost two years, I asked him to cancel his online dating account. I cancelled mine.” Sounds to me as if she only recently asked him to take down his profile. Her girlfriend just confirmed what she admits she already knew – that he had an active profile up. A man who loves his girlfriend doesn’t do that.
Nadia says
Barb, I know the older you get, the scarier the prospects seem to find a partner. But Evan is spot on. You’ve unfortunately escalated the relationship by moving in together before you felt completely safe with what he offers. You could throw your own profile back up on match or go stay at a hotel for a couple of weeks, but those are just games that would provide a temporary reprieve at best. Unfortunately, you already know what you’ve got. Everyone deserves to have their feelings cherished, not disregarded. Really, as hard as it will be to start over, run; don’t walk.
Sabrina says
He is an utter narcissist! Flaunting the messages he receives is just cruel. The fact that he pays for Match.com (the only way to send/receive messages) makes it clear he is looking for more than friends.
I’m so sorry that someone you care about is mistreating you, Barb. But you deserve respect and commitment!
valleyforgefox says
Let’s cut to the chase on this matter! Stop the psycho babble here! (It is a valuable intellectual exercise!)
BOTTOM LINE: Barb ….. you are dating a jerk who is not good for you! Say with him ….you are a huge loser! Is that how you wish to define yourself?
THIS IS NOT THE LAST MAN ON EARTH! ALL ABUSED WOMEN ACT LIKE THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE FOR LOVE SO THEY PUT UP WITH ABUSE FROM ASS HOLE MEN…………..STOP IT! PUT YOUR BAGGAGE DOWN AND WALK INTO THE LIGHT!!!!!!
Heather says
It is possible that she didn’t know that the guy was doing this. If she cancelled her account, she wouldn’t really know that he was online looking for folks. Now what she does with that information, is up to her, but if you’re behaving as a good and trusting girlfriend should, you wouldn’t necessarily know if the guy was cheating. It’s happened to me. I was told by one or two men that we were exclusive, etc only to find out that they were dating other women and probably sleeping with them too.
This is why I do not believe a man’s words, but I do believe his actions. What a guy says, and what he does, often can be two different things. What a guy does, will tell you far more about his character than what he says. It’s saved me a lot of heartache, assuming that a guy is lying til proven otherwise. I’d learn much more quickly what a guy was really about, and able to bail out more easily, since I’d be less emotionally involved, and less trusting.
Rosie says
I love this article and especially your last line, “The only way to fix this is to dump him when you’re done reading this.” Most women are the victims of their unconditional loves and unbounded patience for their unworthy men. Thanks for sharing this frankly.
Coco says
Good article. About a month ago, I ended a half year relationship with a guy I had met online. I am in my mid twenties, he is in his early 30s. He is a professional and makes quite a bit of money. He is very smart, and fairly good looking. I am a very distrustful person but I let down my guard with him and just enjoyed his companionship. His job kept him busy. He kept himself close to me, my family, and asked me to move in with him in July. I did my best to support him. We agreed to be exclusive after a month of dating, so I took down my profile. 4 months into the relationship I am telling my out of state friends about him, and where I met him. My friend is curious and looks at his online profile. She finds it still active and with new pictures from a wedding he attended recently, as well as his profile changed to basically brag about his professional status. I am instantly suspicious. I confronted him. He said he’d take it down, and he was looking for “friends”. (He is from out of state). Stupid and kind of in love, I believed him.
About two months later I was left alone in his apartment like many times, and I cleaned for him, which he knew I did and seemed grateful for every time. I noticed a piece of plastic poking out from under his bed. Well…empty packages of kinky panties and a bunch of other stuff. I went home in tears. My best friend made a profile on the website to see if he’d respond. He did not 5 minutes later, asking for sex/dates. He was too much of a wimp to talk to me for a while. When he did, he was nonchalant and arrogant about it. A week after that he inundated me with apologies and other BS. Too bad.
Dump them. Something like that has NO. OTHER. EXPLANATION. NONE. Before you get cheated on. Or probably already have been. Please.
Olya says
I promise myself and wish all the women ( and men) who are reading this blog to live by this simple principle:
“Don’t let someone become a priority in your live, when you are just an option in theirs” ..
Jane says
I just want to say thanks for this post and comments. My so called boyfriend is as described a lying cheating scumbag, unfurtunely I am also pregnant by him which makes this even more difficult. I am going to follow the advice on this page and just pray that our lives turn out better.
thank you xx
cupcakelj says
Thank you for all of the comments and advice. I have a similar situation. Dating exclusively for a year now I asked him nicely 2x to get off the dating sites a few months ago. First he said he would and then he said he would get around to it. After catching him flirting with people on the dating sites that I knew…..how embarrassing is that …I had enough. I started out with high self esteem. I felt like I was the catch. I allowed him to disrespect me by not giving up the dating sites. I told him finally that he had one foot in with me and one foot in with the dating sites. That there is no way he could love me if he continued this behavior. And, that I needed a man with respect and integrity. He did not text me back. I trusted him. He said once that I should concentrate on how I feel when I am with him. My girlfriend said that I should concentrate on how I feel without him. I felt like shit when I was not with him because deep down I knew he was still searching. I was patient with him, did not put any demands on him, honestly thought that he would not find better but then I had to question myself for the lack of respect I was allowing. I am hurt and very mad at myself.
Jane says
It’s great to read all of your responses here. I agree. Leave him. There’s no other option.
I found this thread because I was searching Evan’s site for references to sociopaths. Unfortunately, I’m drawn to them. I was in a mostly loving relationship for 7.5 years, and I’ve been mostly single for the past 3. The 3 guys I’ve dated in those 3 years have been very different from one another in many of the obvious ways, but have been strikingly similar in their underlying predatory natures: pathological liars–lying not only about their relationships but about everything, not just cheating but leading double lives in relationships with other women, and demonstrating remorseless about their behavior. Sadly, when I’ve looked into their pasts, I’ve seen these same patterns, but when I’ve warned their next targets, the women refuse to listen. I swear I would listen if an ex had warned me away! I also discovered, toward the end of my last relationship, that this man had not only kept his online profile even though we were looking at houses together and were talking about marriage and children, but that he changed his religious affiliation to back up one of his lies. I don’t know if the man in question in this post is of that devious sort, but please take my word for it–it’s best to not stick around to find out.
Simpson says
Hi Evan, that’s interesting! My girlfriend also wanted me to take down my profile but you know what I did, I closed one and immediately went home and opened another one. LOL!
It’s been an year now and everything is hidden in my private harddisk. XD
Oracle says
Simpson #44
you think this is funny?
your not fooling her, your fooling yourself,
karma will come & bite you where it hurts, you won’t be laughing then
starthrower68 says
Why would Simpson refer to her as a girlfriend? It would appear she is just a placeholder if that’s his mindset on the situation. People don’t generally take kindly to being made into a fool.
Dorie Larue says
At least he is affirming what we all know. They just become sneakier.
Mary says
Hi, I am in the same boat. I met my boyfriend online, we have been seeing each other for 1 year. He calls me everyday, we see each other 3 times a week. He introduced me to his parents and friends as his girlfriend. I took down my profile a month after we met, but he hid his profile so I could not see if he was still online. One day, a friend of mine who he never met, told me that my boyfriend contacted her and wanted to meet her in a public place. I confronted him and he apologized saying that he was just an idiot. He deleted his profile. Then, 2 months later, another friend who he never met told me that he contacted her, and when I looked at his new profile, he said he was looking for a long term relationship. He was quite persistent in wanting to meet her for coffee or lunch. I am so hurt. I was going to tolerate it because I love him, but it hurts so much knowing that he’s on a dating site looking for another woman. He is 53 and I am 49.
I didn’t want to talk to him about it because I did it before and it happened again. So, I just sent him an email to say that it’s over.
alexandre says
I can certainly relate. Thanks Evan for the no nonsense article. As I read through the comments I found myself relating …especially with the excuses these kinds of men make. The most loving and mature thing a woman can do is to value and validate her worth enough to walk away. The price you pay as a woman for not walking away is 10 times worse than going through the immediate pain of a break up. Not all men are solid relationship material and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with who they are and a deep rooted sense of inadequacy.
jewel says
I was recently in the same situation. I met a man online who initially pressured me into a committed relationship before I was ready. He was the one that wanted us to take our profiles offline. I was happy to because I hate online dating. After months of telling me he loved me, that I was his dream girl and out of his league(which I was) he started to become a bit controlling and many of our interactions became exhausting. Still, there was enough really good stuff there and for the most part he treated me lovingly. One day after an hour long disagreement about me going out with my sister I decided to online search him. I couldn’t believe it! He had two online profiles still up and had logged on that day. We had plans for me to meet his family in two days,! When I confronted him he denied it. Ultimately I ended up blocking him and putting everything he owned I had on his porch. I haven’t talked to him since. The betrayal hurts but what is a relationship without trust. I’d rather be alone while he chases this elusive fantasy and gets his self esteem needs served by those who don’t know him and don’t give a shit about him. He is shallow. He is an empty cup and no online girl is ever going to be capable of filling it. My advice leave and don’t look back.
Helene says
Right on Evan. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! I hope she took your advice, kicked him out and started working on improving her boundaries and sense of self worth.
xo
Olivia says
He is a jerk ! Hes very disrespectful . Why would he keep up his dating profile if he claims to be commited to you. Whats his rub ? If he truly cared and respected you. He would take his profile down. this man wants his cake and eat it too and he wants have the benifit of having you, but wants to keep his options open. I would tell him how you feel and that hurts your feelings that hes being insensitive to how you feel. I woul tell him to take the profile down. He would do that if you meant that much to him. If he still refuses to do that and drags his feet, and you want to keep this insensitive jerk in your life. Then I believe, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Put a profile up of yourself, tell guys that although youre in a relationship that you enjoy having friends as well. Then when he sees your profile and picture up smiling. He will not like that one bit ! You then will see his reaction and hear what he has to say. Let him see all the attention youre getting from all your ” new friends “. Either he will take his profile down and ask to take yours down too. Or maybe he will be ok with the both of you having ” friends” on the dating website. This way it puts it all out there. And no one is hiding anything. And everyone is on the same page. Whats fair is fair. Good luck !
pretty woman says
Advice to anyone in this type of relationship: do yourself a favor and leave, no matter the hurt and pain involved. My “exclusive” bf refused to take down his pof or match profiles. Despite numerous conversations about them over the course of six months. You’re left feeling conflicted and always suspicious. My close friend posted a fake profile and sent it to him. Valentines weekend as I was driving in a snowstorm to meet him, he was asking my friend out on her fake profile. When confronted, he lied about his intention as well, tried to accuse me of being sneaky. Truth is a powerful weapon, but pay attention to the signs you may be ignoring. If you are always feeling suspicious and confused, and your stomach is always in knots, thats your intuition calling an alarm. Pay attention! No relationship should disempower you.
Gary Snyder says
I would suggest putting up a dating profile of your own. Sometimes people have to walk a mile in your shoes to see how it feels. This is called reverse psychology and tough love, it can really work.
Why throw a two year relationship away? I don’t believe in telling people to breakup with someone. I recommend educating them… with the right tools, they are more than capable of making decisions on their own. God does not respect any one person above another.
Heather M says
I am in this situation. We have been together for 8 mos. I picked up my life and moved to a different state with him thinking we were going to build a future together. I knew his password to his computer and found that he is on a dating site. I confronted him about and asked him to take his profile down and he was adamant that he would not. I am stuck here in this house that we are renting for a year. I do not have the expenses to move out and find a place on my own. I am torn because he wants to build a relationship but continue to chat on line. I asked him how do you think the women will feel when they find out that you are in a relationship and he said that will not know because he is just talking to them. I asked him how he would feel if I put my profile back on and he said that he wouldn’t like it. I am on a emotional coaster until I can move out on my own. This is my first real relationship since my divorce 10 yrs ago. This is not an easy situation to get out of for me. I am stuck…
Karmic Equation says
Heather,
This is where you reactivate your profile and start Circular Dating.
John, Jeremy, Chance, Evan, RustyLH? He’s being a bad bf. Agree? It’s the perfect scenario for CD’ing. And, imo, she doesn’t need to tell him that she’s CD’ing. He broke the gf/bf contract. Snooping notwithstanding.
Evan Marc Katz says
Nope. That’s where all the RR CDers are missing it. You don’t CD. You DUMP him. Always. CDing is code for cheating. She thinks it’s justifiable. I think it’s weak and lacks integrity.
Jeremy says
Yes, Karmic, he is being a bad boyfriend. That is why she should dump the guy and figure out what to do about who pays the remaining rent. This is a sad situation, and I feel for the poster. It is a toxic relationship that she should exit – not complicate. At least if she exits cleanly she can feel good that she has taken the highroad.
Karmic Equation says
Evan,
I agree she should if could AFFORD TO do so.
What you’re missing are TWO things, Evan.
1) She can’t AFFORD to dump him. They’re living together in a state where presumably she doesn’t have close friends and family (she moved out of her home state to be with him). It would be a HUGE problem, financially (broken lease) and realistically (how does she get HER stuff out of the house? Why should SHE be the one to move? — Particularly, when HE was the douchebag?)
2) While 2 wrongs don’t make a right, he was a sleazebag and she doesn’t need to be one…BUT since she should NO LONGER CARE what said sleazebag thinks of her, she can and should do what’s right for HER. It doesn’t matter what he thinks of her.
She owed him nothing once he refused to take down his profile.
Jeremy,
Thanks for agreeing he’s being a bad bf.
Heather,
The guys are stuck on my saying you “don’t have to tell him” you’re CD’ing. They feel you’d be cheating on your cheating boyfriend. I feel you don’t owe HIM anything. But it’s on you on what you owe YOURSELF.
Go ahead and tell your bf that you’ve decided to do what he’s doing–reactivate your profile and start “talking to” other guys. Date them if you want to — or not.
And look for ways to get out of your shared living space. In the whole scheme of things a broken lease is no big deal. Move out and stick him with the full rent. It’s too bad your unsuspecting landlord is going to suffer due to no fault of his/her own.
Good luck to you.
Evan Marc Katz says
Yes, cheat on him, activate your profile, and move out. But don’t dump him. Karmic, you’re usually so spot-on. Not sure how you’re missing this one by a mile. Your advice actively contradicts itself when you tell her that she can’t move out, shouldn’t move out and then should move out. This is all noise. Dump him. Move on. No CDing. You pretty much concede my point that dating others is not really the answer here. That’s because it’s NEVER the answer.
Jeremy says
One last comment I’ll make here, Karmic. I happen to agree with you that, in this situation, she owes this guy NOTHING. If you read my comment, I suggested that she take the high road for herself, not for his sake. To maintain her own sense of personal integrity, and thereby aiding in her own future relationships.
My own take on cheating (whether in relationships, marriage, or whatever) is this: Everyone fantasizes. Most people don’t cross the threshold between fantasy and reality because they have a conscience preventing it. But once that threshold has been crossed once, it is MUCH easier to do it again. That is why I, personally, would not ever date a person who admitted to cheating on a past partner, regardless of the justification or circumstance.
If I was out to dinner with someone and she told me that she had been cheated on by a previous boyfriend and so she dumped him and moved on, I would say “good for you” and look forward to getting to know her better. On the other hand, if I was out with a woman who told me that her ex-boyfriend cheated on her so she cheated on him back, I would ask for the cheque. Did she have justification? – maybe yes. Did she act with integrity? (the ex-boyfriend certainly did not, but he is not the issue here) – No.
I am glad that, in Heather’s case, we all seem to ultimately agree that she should leave, and find a way to deal with the rent situation.
Karmic Equation says
Evan,
You’re being awfully stubborn about this one.
Once she TELLS the guy she’s CD’ing, she’s no longer cheating. It’s CD’ing WITHOUT telling him that can be considered cheating.
Again, once a guy (or girl) breaks that gf/bf contract, gloves are off and either party shouldn’t expect good treatment from the other party. Would it be NICE if the cheated on party takes the high road, SURE. But WHY should that bother YOU OR ME if the cheated on party exacts a measure of revenge if he/she wants to? I believe in “an eye for eye” as much as I believe in “what goes around comes around” and truth be told, those two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive.
Once she starts CD’ing after she tells him, she gets back her CEO power. He knows about it. He can “quit” her company instead of her firing him laying him off.
In the real world, a “fired” person may get UE benefits (depends on the situation); a “laid off” person certainly does.
Why should the CEO lay off or fire a slacker when she has the means to get him to quit on his own?
Evan Marc Katz says
“Why should the CEO lay off or fire a slacker when she has the means to get him to quit on his own?” Because it lacks integrity. Because it’s passive aggressive bullshit. Because two wrongs don’t make a right. Because why would she want him to quit on his own when she can fire him. There is no ground for you to stand on here.
But the good news for cheating men around the world is that as long as he TELLS you he’s cheating, he’s no longer cheating. He’s just CDing. Glad we got that cleared up.
Karmic Equation says
You keep forgetting that HE ALREADY CHEATED! Why should he get away with that IF SHE DOESN’T WANT HIM TO?
If he tells you BEFORE he cheats, he isn’t cheating. He’s giving you the option to get out or accept. If a woman stays in the relationship at that point, she’s agreeing to an open relationship. And if she changes her mind afterwards, she can’t call him a cheater. That would be inaccurate.
Karmic Equation says
Jeremy,
Any person who VOLUNTEERS that they either were cheated upon and then cheated in retaliation is an idiot. He/She needs a dating coach. And a brain. Who volunteers that kind of information?
I would actually listen to the justification for entertainment. Probably ask follow up questions, too.
I wouldn’t date them again due to them being idiots. Honest idiots, but idiots nonetheless.
XO says
My suggestion would be to break up with him and get yourself right before you start dating other guys. You need to get on your feet – by becoming wealthy in either real friends or money so you can get yourself out of these types of bad situations should you find yourself in one. This will build your self confidence. You are way too vulnerable right now to screen out manipulative men that are obviously abundant (from this post) on these websites.
You need to figure out: Should I move back home where I probably have some sort of support system? Should I stay here and strike out on my own?
Forget the lease. Big stinking deal. He will more than likely find someone new to move in faster than you think if he is looking for the next best thing on line. From my experience, guys who do this already have one foot out the door and other sources at hand in case they are abandoned. He won’t miss a beat. Trust me. He’ll just call an ex and lie and complain about you and the ex will go… awww.. and take him back because he manipulates her.
If he has a profile up, it means that you are not enough for HIM. He wants something better. He will always want something better. It is NOT you. It is him. He at least has a serious character flaw and at most has a personality disorder – NPD, ASPD… Either way, leave, leave, leave. If you need help, ask a friend or family member back home.
John says
Karmic- Of course he is being a bad boyfriend. He should be dumped. But you are only considering 1 side of the equation. What happens if a guy is perfectly monogamous, treats the girl well and then he finds out she is dating others behind his back? Then the girl will lose the guy for certain. In that scenario, then wouldn’t the CD be the demise of a perfectly good relationship?
The bottom line is that a girl has to decide if there is higher risk in losing a good guy due to him finding out she is CDing or shutting off her options by abstaining from CDing. You have decided that it is worth the risk of losing a good guy because you want to keep your options open. Good for you. But probably not good advice for other women to follow.
Karmic Equation says
John,
Once a girl’s figured out/decided that a guy is not being a good boyfriend, I agree she should dump him. But some girls either will not or can not (see Heather’s reason, there’s probably more Heathers out there than you think) — where she NEEDS to unhook her brain from a bad guy/bad situation before she can actually do the deed (break up).
If he IS a good guy, like I’ve been saying, a good guy would leave a woman IN NO DOUBT where she stands with him on things that are important to her, particularly if she’s communicated those things to him.
For example, if a guy DOESN’T EVER plan to marry and he KNOWS she wants marriage, that guy is NOT being a good boyfriend, no matter how much money or time of or otherwise good treatment he showers on her, if HE’s using living together as a placeholder for marriage WITHOUT TELLING HER. That’s lying by omission. That’s CHEATING her out of her life goal for HIS convenience. Now does that qualify as a bad enough boyfriend behavior to justify CD’ing without telling him? He’s lying by omission and she’s lying by omission. They can both be considered cheating. Grey area.
All that said, I personally can’t support CD’ing to get to marriage. That is quite non-sensical. But I do believe CD’ing can be a good exit strategy (Thanks, Jeremy, for the terminology). I actually *had* to do it for my own sanity. Although I did tell the guy “Our relationship is over. I’m no longer your gf, you’re no longer my bf. I want you to move out by the end of the month” before I started CD’ing — but he was in the midst of a drunken stupor when I said that so it’s debatable whether he even recalled I said that all. But the guy was still living under my roof and I continued to treat him well afterwards (although I had stopped having sex with him 5 months prior) — until I had to serve him with a restraining order. He was the love of my life. You have no idea how much it hurt to be forced to have to do that. He was a very very good man and a great complement to me until he let alcohol take over his life…and mine.
CD’ing as an exit strategy does work, in specific situations.
CD’ing before a guy is your boyfriend is what women need to do as part of dating. But most women don’t do that and instead put all their eggs in one basket, which contributes to them becoming disillusioned and embittered.
GL says
I don’t know about not asking someone to take down their profile. What about an ultimatum? Take it down or I’m also going to explore my options? I guess if they don’t step up there’s your answer.
vernell says
I am in the same situation with a creep that thinks he’s all that ! The stupidest thing on my part… is… that I fell in love with him …but’… he’s as ugly as a mud fence ! He’s 63 and put up a profile photo of himself at age 35 on: match.com , lotsoffish.com , localflirts.com , okcupid.com , yahoo match.com , our time.com , ” seniors something or other ” and a lot more . Then he lies and claims that he couldn’t delete them and that they were from a long time ago ….localflirts.com had a caption that said ” joined 4 days ago ” ! Well I’m Vindictive ….I put him up on every single dating site on line and the gay ones too and gave them a profile that takes some imagination to get hold of …LOL .I am making plans to be alone with me again…because I am too damn old to put up with this bullshit !! Alright , here’s the deal…. ” Real True Love Does Not Shop Around For Someone Else ” !! ” True Love Does Not Sneak Around And Hide Stuff From You ” !! He’s Not All That and Never Will Be Good Enough For You ….You Dump His Ass…Because You Are Worth Something To Someone Else and You Can Do Better ! He’s Not Worth Giving Up Your Life , Happiness and Energy Over …He’s Takin Up Space in Your Heart .
Karmic Equation says
I’m confused. Did you fall in love with his PICTURE? And then got mad when he showed up uglier/older than his picture?
Or did you fall in love with his uglier/older self after dating him in real life and then got mad because he’s still on dating sites with his young picture?
N says
My 2 cents. A good exit strategy is to break up. End of story. N~
Former ATL says
OH wow.
Get out NOW.
This narcissist sounds like a chiropractor I met on match and dated on/off for close to two yrs. He would feign ignorance stating he had not logged in while I had proof otherwise similar to yours. The guy was adept at gaslighting. Had his ex lover living in his basement and lied about their relationship the entire time. Turns out he had been shagging her and she was very much in his life. Proximity is a gruesome thing.
Nothing ever changes if nothing ever changes. Nothing I said or did would change his proclivity to be a perpetual bachelor. Find out from another Chiro I went to school with that my ex BF was quite the get around guy in his profession. Like others have said – get an STD check and never second guess this behavior again.
You are worth having what you seek and not listening to some dope who tells you it is normal for an apple to fall upwards into a tree instead of down.
Louise Smith says
Erm, he sounds like a loser. I had the same thing happen to me and I used a company called eyespyu.com they found my cheater had three profiles not just one!
Sorry to hear your going through the same. Good luck.
Sher says
Good god, Barb, I hope you’ve left by now!!!
Marce says
Evan…thank you! I just left my boyfriend that I’ve been with for almost 2 years and living with for a year on and off. I gave him 3 chances to stop cheating but when I went back to him the 3 rd time ..he was good for 2 months then was back on match.com. I tried to forgive but when I confronted him he blatantly lied. I left. He can be someone else’s problem. I deserve better and he will cheat no matter who he is with. Barbara needs to come to an understanding within herself that he will never change but she can leave.
Sarah says
I’d also look into a number of other dating websites to see if his profile is listed there too. These players usually having several different sites running at the same time. Even if they take down their profile on one site, they still have backups up and running. Another place to check is Facebook and Skype. Look into the recently added friends. Bottom line, if they haven’t removed their profile they are still looking for someone else. And you shouldn’t have to ask a guy to take down their profile. If they are into you and you alone, they remove their profile, cancel their subscription, and do not return to the website.
Dawn Heistand says
why should she waste her time looking 4 his profile at other sites ? One is bad and hard enough on her to handle ! why should she have more heart ache ?
Diana says
My guy and I met just 5 mos after we’d each been separated and we’ve been together ever since. We were really close for about a year and then I started to notice him pulling away. Less passion, less emotional connection. We still saw each other every single weekend and he called me every single day without fail. We went on several trips together. We are compatible, love doing the same things and are supportive of each other. I was in love with him and he told me that he loved me. After about a year, we had the ‘talk’ about commitment. He told me that he wasn’t ready to commit. So we both agreed that we’d continue to see each other while dating others. Keep it loose…. But he still expected to see me every weekend, called and texted every single day and effectively acted like my boyfriend. I’ve met all of his friends, his brothers, but not his kids. He explained that he felt awkward about that till after the divorce. That sounded reasonable to me, his kids are college age. I have a busy life so I stopped dating went off the sites but he continued. I expressed my disappointment that he continues to be active on at least 2 maybe 3 dating sites. He said, he cannot commit yet, he feels I am twisting his arm to get married. Neither one of us are done with our divorces which are complicated but inevitable.
Finally, I told him calmly that we were no longer a couple as long as he on sites looking for other women to date. AFter 2 years together, if he thought I was ‘the one’, I’d hop that he’d do everything in his power to keep me. I told him that it’s not working for me any longer that I am looking for a partner in life and I am not interested in perpetually dating. He’s 61 and I am 58. He’s very upset, he says he can’t sleep and he is distraught. I’m pretty much ignoring him and I’m back on ok cupid now.
So that’s it and I’m sad, but I can’t imagine how we’d ever go back to how we were. He was so close emotionally at first and now pulling back. I don’t know why and cannot unwind this for him. Sadly, I’m done. I told him that I’m not waiting for him to inform me that he’s met someone else with whom he’d like to explore a relationship. He said ‘there’s no one else out there for me but you. I just don’t know how I can commit to being together.’
To anyone in this situation, hopefully you’ll tire of the situation and end it. Good luck ladies!
Amy says
I’m dealing with a similar situation, I have a boyfriend of almost 2 yrs that I found on a dating site. I wasn’t snooping at all, I’ve always trusted him, but something suspicious (a search for a dating site) came up on his phone when he was showing me something. I created a fake profile to see if I could find him, and I saw him on there. I’ve been getting messages from him, so I know for sure he’s an active member. It’s heartbreaking to have trust shattered like that, especially when you see a future with someone before it happened. I hope Barb dumped that jerk. I’m about to dump mine.
Dawn Heistand says
dump him 4 U deserve better then him
Amy says
I dumped him. He begged, pleaded for me to stay. He tried to explain it away and said he would seek counseling and also give me full access to his email account, etc. I told him I was done and that was it.
Chris says
Why would he take his profile down? He’s got a great setup for himself. A place to live, companionship, someone that I am assuming takes care of things and does at least half of the household responsibilities, and gets the attention of other women. He’s basically a selfish old man, afraiD of his age, needing attention and using someone who willingly gives it to him. Pretty imature. He will never grow up if he doesn’t have to. Why you want to have that kind of man in your life doesn’t have to do with his profile being online, it has to do with you.
Dawn Heistand says
U R so right
Dawn Heistand says
Hi ! He is your boyfriend and just like you , he is free to do this until you two get married ! If your living together then move away from him before you walk in on him and his woman having sex ! Take care and thanks
Mary says
Many of Barb’s words could be my own- except that in my case, it’s my husband, not a long term live-in boyfriend.
Is it as straightforward as leaving after I’ve been clear there’s no tolerance for this sort of behavior?
Karl R says
Yes, Mary, it’s that straightforward.