Dating And Divorce: Is It ‘Survival Of The Sluttiest’?

Dating And Divorce: Is It 'Survival Of The Sluttiest'?

In a Huffington Post article, New York comedian Juliet Jeske lamented that after the end of a nine-year relationship, she no longer knows how to date. She describes her experiences this way:

“As a person who is by nature very direct and to the point, dating is a mystery trapped in a puzzle, tucked in a fireproof safe thrown down a mineshaft. I just can’t figure it out.”

She goes on to say that “It is just sort of expected by many that you start the physical part of the relationship first, and then see if either partner wants to continue after the fact, sort of a try before you buy situation. Sex before emotional attachment, sex before any form of relationship, sex before everything.”

Jeske is complaining specifically about dating in New York, but I think this phenomenon is universal. I mean, how many times have I said that “men look for sex and find love and women look for love and find sex”? What Jeske doesn’t seem to get is that it’s not an either/or.

You don’t have to sleep with a guy on Date 2 just because some other woman will. That other woman is most likely being used and is wondering why all the guys she sleeps with never amount to anything.

What women DO need to understand is that men are driven by attraction, sex and testosterone. And if you think it’s ridiculous that he’s going to want to have a little foreplay before you’re in a relationship, you’re going to be perpetually frustrated by reality.

Instead of complaining that men are interested in sex (duh), how about you figure out a way to better connect with him outside the bedroom during those first few formative weeks/months? And if all he wants is sex, just ditch him. It ain’t that hard.

Read the article here and let me know your thoughts in the comments below.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Soul Sister

    I wasw divorced within the last two years and I agree with the confusion around dating.  It’s like the girls all turned into women along the way between 20 and 50, and the boys are….well, the boys I recognized from college!  We’re both horny, no one in the room is a virgin, and the woman is suppose to “hold back”?  So he is thinking “God this feels good” and she is thinking “God this feels good, should I be doing this, will he still respect me, will he call me tomorrow, will he think I do this with everyone, but I haven’t been laid in six months and I NEED this, didn’t my friend Betsy have sex with her husband on the first date and they are happily married…blah, blah, blah.”  I am not looking for a husband, but I do want to know if the sex is good I can come back for more and maybe even have some consistency!  And maybe even find we care about each other a bit!

    So I made some mistakes, I got laid by some guys who later said “no thanks” and I tried to not make it about me. And then it happened.  I played the numbers game on Match, did the circular dating, and on my 3rd date with this guy we both looked at each other and knew. Our 4th date was a weekend at a resort, our 5th date was an overnight at his house, and our 6th date we took our profiles off Match.  And the best part was there was no second guessing.  I kept in mind what Evan says “men will do what men want to do” so I was just open and receptive to his pursuit, it felt natural and right, and there were simply no games.

    So I think the confusion and anxiety is when one of the people is either not that into the other or not ready for a real relationship.  We were both ready, the chemistry was there, and we are just riding the wave.  Being vulnerable is scary, but for once it was just easy and right! 

    1. 1.1
      Vesper

      Soul Sister–thank you for that description. I slept with a man I’ve been dating last night — first time since my divorce — and those were my thoughts exactly. Hilarious. I’m a woman who was married for ten years and have two kids–obviously I have had sex before. I’m not going to pretend I don’t want to do it again with someone I find attractive.

  2. 2
    Gem

    I love my heart, my body, and my soul too much to treat them casually like a ride at an amusement park. There HAS to be monogamy, and mutual strong feelings for me 🙂

    As Soul Sister said, sometimes it can happen very quickly that a couple just click, and they know they both want something deeper and meaningful, so things progress quickly. Every situation different.

  3. 3
    david

    EMK — I was dying for your response on this!!!!

  4. 4
    david

    Look I lived in NYC for 11 years and I don’t know who this lady is dating, going after, etc. — to quote Millionaire Matchmaker (and I can’t believe I just wrote that), “Her pcker is broken.” There’s no nice, cute guys in NYC? No guy that just wants to use you a sex doll? Really? In 2011? New York is just full of sluts and that’s the reason she can’t find love? And this absurd theory is firing up the blogways and various news outlets? She makes it seem it’s the SWinging 70’s / Plato’s Retreat all over again…Perhaps her article should be called “My Picker Is Broken ‘Cause I can’t Find a Decent Guy in the most Populous city in the United States.” I read her article and didn’t really relate to the world / people she’s describing….(and I’ve been in LA for 11 years, NYC 11 years)

  5. 5
    Goldie

    @ Soul Sister #1 , I love your comment!!
     
    “We’re both horny, no one in the room is a virgin, and the woman is suppose to “hold back”?  So he is thinking “God this feels good” and she is thinking “God this feels good, should I be doing this, will he still respect me, will he call me tomorrow, will he think I do this with everyone, but I haven’t been laid in six months and I NEED this, didn’t my friend Betsy have sex with her husband on the first date and they are happily married…blah, blah, blah.” 
     
    Yep, that was exactly what went through my head in this situation. “God this feels good, I just broke every dating rule in the book, I’ve ruined all my chances of seeing him again, but OMG totally worth it…” blah, blah, blah.
     
    And then he told me there’d never been an emotional connection anyway – so there had never been any chances of seeing him again to begin with – so, totally worth it, amirite? 🙂
     
    I thought about it and thought about it and finally realized that there are no rules, no expectations, just live your life as it happens, one day at a time… and it’s probably for the better, too. I cannot imagine a situation when two people are perfect for each other, and it doesn’t work out for the only reason that they had sex too soon, or too late, or otherwise not by the book. I’m now doing what Soul Sister did, I’m meeting new people, I’m doing what I want to do and not doing what I don’t want to do, on my own time frame, I’m putting no pressure on myself or the others, and it feels absolutely great. The quality of the people I meet, by the way, has improved dramatically too, once I changed my attitude. Highly intelligent, intellectually curious, all around fun and nice people. If ten percent of the guys I go out with now, remain my friends after a year, my life will be so much richer because of that.
     
    I had a conversation with a guy last night when he said, “I’ve only been on my own for six months, and I still don’t know what the dating protocol is”. I told him, “I spent a year and a half trying to figure out the protocol. And, just when I thought I finally knew the protocol, guess what I found out… there is no protocol.” Everyone is at their own stage in life anyway, everyone does their own thing, and it’s not like the dating police will come and get a guy or a woman for violating the dating code. Just take it easy, do whatever makes you happy, try not to attach too soon, learn from bad experiences and move on… easier said than done, of course 🙂

  6. 6
    melie

    Right on, Evan!

  7. 7
    Michael17

    Well, New York City is a special case in that there are a lot more single women there than single men. Women there will feel more pressure to go by what the men want, which yes, tends to mean sex early on.

    It’s not like that the further south and west you go in the US. Most cities out west have more single men than women, so there women have more power and choice.

  8. 8
    NN

    Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I don’t get sexual satisfaction from?

    Sure I want to test drive HIM, before I have wasted too much time.. If he is no good, I don’t see any point of meeting him after a week of sex – which is the usual case, as I get bored easily.

    1. 8.1
      JennLee

      There is no easy answer, but if you understand men, they do like a bit of a challenge, or maybe they don’t but in the end, a challenge makes anything more memorable to them. Do men sit around and tell stories of the beating a team that hadn’t won a game in 2 years, or do they brag about barely beating the team hadn’t lost a game in 2 years? Do men show off a picture of a fish they bought at a market, or the one that they had to fight to catch?

      I think what some miss, such as in the comment above where she states that he says there was no emotional connection is that men and women work differently. With sex, we want to move slowly, have foreplay, and then we get all warmed up an the big bang happens. Men are fast in this area, ready to go. But emotionally, men need time to build up to strong feelings. Their lust, their passion happens very quickly, but emotions take time for a man. So my opinion is that making him wait for a while can allow his feelings for you to develop before he gets what he was after. After he gets what he’s after, he may not feel motivated to develop those emotions.

  9. 9
    AQ

    Okay. I think the confusion is the OPTIONS. There are more options for “dating styles” than ever before. And unfortunately for the “commitment-minded soul” the other options include friends with benefits, hookups and one night stands. 

    BUT I think if you can try to be all you can be, you also have more options for people who want to date you – thin down, make your wardrobe better, work on your past so you forget it and can be fun and fresh again. 

    Here is my take.

    SLOW down. Date a bunch of people until you find the person who wants to be your BF. If you don’t put yourself on the couch (meaning going to a house) you are going to avoid being a hookup before he really knows you and wants you.

    I think you can really have a lot of clues on the first date – how much effort does he put into trying to impress you, is he a bit shy and nervous, is it romantic and is he nice and respectful. And the 2nd date should not be his bed – it should be something fun and did he CALL to make it and want it right away and want to impress you somewhere in public? Or did he text to come over to his house for dinner – BIG difference. 

    I think we all have to take more time to find one who will want to be our exclusive boyfriend before we have sex sex. THIS takes time and patience and aloneness. Once you make the boyfriend/girlfriend and exclusive dating arrangement you are on a speed train to the bed.  You better hope he has some emotion or spark for you before that – i think once they start rockin they don’t notice anything else. 

    NYC sounds like it is a hard place to date.  I wish everyone better luck!! That is sad for sure – but the person above who said women are outnumbered probably makes a good statement. 

  10. 10
    Saint Stephen

    NN #8
     Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I don’t get sexual satisfaction from?

    Sure I want to test drive HIM, before I have wasted too much time.. If he is no good, I don’t see any point of meeting him after a week of sex – which is the usual case, as I get bored easily.

    If this is the only foundation on which your relationships are built then is bound to be a failure in the long or short Run.

    What about after finding out his good in bed you become emotionally attached and he dumps you for some other lady he considers better in bed?
    It takes more than sex or good quality of sex for a relationship to suceed except what you want is a fling.
     
    Any lady that i happen to have sex with too easily will never be a Good relationship material to me, She will always remain an occasional Booty call or nothing else.
    This is where i think i’m different from from other Men (i don’t look for sex and find love).

    The point i’m trying to make is when you have sex with a “guy” or vice versa, you become emotionally attached and this clouds your sex of judgement.. i guess you already where a relationship like this headed?

    The reason why the divorce rate in America is sky-rocketing is because people more often get maried for Wrong reasons, like financial security, good quality of sex, good looks, too much spark or chemistry, etc. 
    So whenever there is deficiency in any of the aforemetioned reason the next good alternative for them is to go see a divorce lawyer.       
    In “America” people now abuse the Marriage institution by getting in and out whenever they deem it Neccesary.

    Personally i see a scenario where women are getting more slutty by the day while sniveling that Men are studs, there is No more descent guy, blah blah blah. 

    What Women seem to forget is that it “takes two to tango” so there can be No stud without a slut. 

    Bottom line- is more easy to get someone improve sexually than to change the person’s bad characters which you might not be able to put up with in the offing.    

  11. 11
    Margo

    The truth is that it’s best that as women we don’t have sex with a man until he has given us a commitment. Otherwise, and what is happening nowadays is these men go from women to women having free sex and not giving any of these women a relationship.

    That’s how men get to sleep with many different women, as many women that will give it up for free. Also, all men know the playbook, they know exactly what they are doing. No promises and then once they get it, it’s goodbye and on to the next woman. It’s scummy, but it’s the reality. Ladies, you must stand your ground if you want a relationship. You have to look out for and protect yourselves.

  12. 12
    hunter

    @Michael17, many women on the west coast, stay in their own little circles or they choose to stay home most of the time….

  13. 13
    Margo

    Saint Steven, says: “any lady I happen to have sex with too easily will never be a Good relationship material to me”?

    You wanna explain that? What is your part in it?? Here is the stinking double standard in it’s finest glory! Steven, it’s okay for YOU to have sex easily with the woman, and it’s business as usual, but because she was a willing participant in your dirt, she’s now dirty and unworthy of a relationship.

    There you have it ladies…The true nature of men.

    1. 13.1
      Carla

      Yep agree. I’m tired of them blaming this on us.

      1. 13.1.1
        Karl R

        Carla,

        If a man in any way acts like Stephen, whether blaming women for actions he was a participant in, or holding women to a stricter standard than he holds himself, then get rid of him.

        In fact, I would say that those women dodged a bullet when Stephen refused to date them. It would be far worse for any woman who refused to have sex with him (due to her personal moral code), then ended up married to him because she hadn’t yet seen this side of his personality.

         

        Evan has frequently stated that he loves promiscuous women.

        I’ve previously discussed a conversation I had with a girlfriend about 7 years ago. She was mad at herself, for having sex with me when we’d been dating less than a week, because she didn’t want me to think that she was, “that kind of girl.”

        My response: “Well, apparently you’re that kind of girl, and I’m that kind of guy. What’s the problem?”

        That girlfriend is now my wife.

         

        If a guy acts like Stephen, thank God (or whomever you’re inclined to thank) that you discovered his hypocrisy / double standard before wasting any more time on him. Then go find a man who will be good relationship material.

  14. 14
    Callie

    Often it seems like another no win situation to me: hop in bed too soon with the guy and he won’t take you seriously. Keep putting him off and he find someone who is perfectly willing to go there. And what exactly qualifies as ‘foreplay’ before a relationship? 

  15. 15
    Gem

    NN #8,

    “Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I get no sexual satisfaction from?”

    Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I DO get sexual satisfaction from but find after the fact that there’s not much else he has to offer, and so chance for a relationship. I would have risked pregnancy, a sexually transmitted disease, and my emotions for the weight of a man on top of me who means nothing to me, and (hopefully) orgasms. (which, btw, I know I can do better for myself than a stranger who doesn’t even know me or my body could.)

    “I don’t see any point in meeting him after a week of sex – which is the usual case, as I get bored easily.”

    Maybe you get bored because you’re having sex with people before they have a chance to mean anything to you. In any event, if you bore that easily, don’t get married, and if you do, don’t have children because you will most surely wind up divorcing their father.

     

  16. 16
    Marie

    I told a guy on our first or second date (after he specifically asked) that I’m not ready for sex until I’m in a monogamous relationship. He was on board with that, and then a couple dates later he told me he needed sex before a commitment, in case the sex wasn’t good. Haha. I’m a very sexual, sensual and open-minded person, so the idea of not being satisfied by me is…well… ridiculous to say the least. But I know there are women who’ll let him test drive the merchandise so have fun with that:) Ciao!

  17. 17
    sharon

    @ Saint Stephen

    Do you tell the women you deem to easy that if they sleep with you know you won’t be able to take them seriously or do you take advantage of the opportunity? If that latter is true you’re a best a hypocrite at worst an opportunist jerk. Either way I’d say the women you blew off dodged a bullet. 
     

  18. 18
    Ruby

    St Stephen #10

    <<Personally i see a scenario where women are getting more slutty by the day while sniveling that Men are studs, there is No more descent guy, blah blah blah. What Women seem to forget is that it ”takes two to tango” so there can be No stud without a slut. >> 

    So the man gets to be a “stud” in all his glory, while the woman is nothing but a shameless, “sniveling slut”? 

  19. 19
    Margo

    Regarding “Saint” Stephen, Isn’t it ironic that he has “saint” in front of his name. By reading his post, it’s obvious he’s a lot of things, but “saint” definitely ain’t one of them…

  20. 20
    Goldie

    @ St Stephen #10:
     
    “The reason why the divorce rate in America is sky-rocketing is because people more often get maried for Wrong reasons, like financial security, good quality of sex, good looks, too much spark or chemistry, etc. 
    So whenever there is deficiency in any of the aforemetioned reason the next good alternative for them is to go see a divorce lawyer.”
     
    Ohmigawd you nailed it! Um… not. Do you know how difficult and expensive it is to divorce? Do you realize how much more it costs to live as two households instead of one? You mention a divorce lawyer; do you know how much they charge? Please believe me when I say that in the overwhelming majority of cases, people get divorced for very very valid reasons that I, personally, would not take it upon myself to question.
     
    Now why they get married is another story… I’d add pressure from the society to the list of wrong reasons you’ve listed.
     
    Re: the test drive being debated here: I support it. I’ve had it happen on one occasion when the man was really good – smart, funny, nice, responsible, and the sex (which BTW we waited till fifth date/five weeks for) was something out of a horror movie. And yeah, I was emotionally attached to him by then, to the point where I considered putting up with the crappy, weird sex because he was such a great person. Fortunately, the great person messed it up for himself by telling me he was only interested in casual, no commitment (?? what he would have done with his freedom, I will never know. Did he mean he found more women willing to put up with that?) I told him, sorry, I want a serious LTR. Truth be told, I have nothing against casual, but it better be really really good, not the opposite.
     
    @ Marie #16: This guy sounds odd. Bringing up sex on the first date, implying that you may suck in bed in your conversation a couple dates later… what a gentleman. I’d send him on his way for reasons not related to my chastity or whatever, just because he sounds like a selfish inconsiderate jerk.

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