I Want To Stop Having Sex With My Boyfriend Until We Get Married.
- Dating, Sex, Sex
Hi. My boyfriend and I have been together for almost a year. I waited until I was officially his girlfriend (2 months) before we had sex. It’s been amazing, but this New Year I want to get closer to God and stop having sex until we get married. It seems like he can’t sacrifice sex for the man above or for me, and when I talk to him about it he tries to ignore the subject.He agreed to not have sex, but I feel like he’s just saying it to say it. Should this be a big concern? Or am I taking it too far since we’ve already been sexual for the past 10 months?
Thanks! Yasmin
Dear Yasmin, I’m sorry, but you really wrote to the wrong guy. I’m pro-sex, pro-logic, and pro-consistency, and your letter fails all three tests. I can understand a woman who sleeps with a man too quickly, like, date 1 or 2 – pulling back to say, “Hey, we should get to know each other a little better first before we embark on a sexual relationship.” The guy may grumble a bit at moving “backwards,” but, if he likes her, he’ll be pleased to wait a few weeks until she trusts him enough to resume the physical part of their relationship. You, on the other hand, were patient enough to wait two months to sleep with your guy. Good for you, really! – for showing restraint and seeing what he was made of as a man. As a result of your patience, you’ve been rewarded with an amazing boyfriend, and, not incidentally, 10 months of good sex.
And, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t God all-forgiving? I’m sorry. I really tuned out during Hebrew school.
Then, suddenly, you had a New Years Revelation (stronger than resolutions, I hear), which told you that in order to “get closer to God,” you should stop having sex. Got it. Now, forgive my ignorance of religion, but I’ve got a handful of questions: What does “closer to God” mean? What happens to all the unfortunate God-fearing women who have been having pre-marital sex without changing their minds? Are they screwed? Are they all going to hell? Or will they just not be as “close” with God as you are? And, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t God all-forgiving? I’m sorry. I really tuned out during Hebrew school.Oh, there’s one more thing that begs a question: what about your boyfriend’s feelings? It would be like you driving your parents’ car for a year when you were 16, and then, when you turned 17, hearing from Dad that you were losing your driving privileges. Why? Because Dad read a statistic that girls under 18 get into a higher percentage of car accidents. Does he have a point? Maybe. But that wouldn’t make you feel any better. In fact, having your privileges taken away will probably make you feel much worse than if you hadn’t been driving that whole year at all. You’d understandably be resentful of your Dad, even though you know he was doing it for the right reasons.
And if you cut off your boyfriend from having sex after 10 months, don’t be too surprised if he cuts you off in return.
No matter how I slice it, I see your predicament as an arbitrary, self-imposed one, based on a lack of understanding of both religion and human nature. And if you cut off your boyfriend from having sex after 10 months, don’t be too surprised if he cuts you off in return. Not because he’s a selfish jerk. But because he has a girlfriend whose actions and needs are not properly aligned with his own. Finally, I’m sincerely sorry if I misinterpreted the doctrine of your religion. If you, or anyone reading this, wants a more religious take on the Church’s position on pre-marital sex, consult your clergy. But since you asked a dating coach a sex question, you got my irreverant take on it. Hope it gives you some clarity.
Amelia says
Evan, sorry, but this is like the world’s worst answer. First of all, you compare stopping sex to cutting off car privileges??? Did I miss something here? There is no comparison.
Second of all, this woman does not owe this guy sex. You talk like, this guy is totally entitled to have sex with this woman, well guess what Evan – they’re not married!! I direct you to this line again – they’re not married!! If they were, I would say, yes, he is totally entitled to have sex from her. Maybe there is no real commitment on his part and that is what is also why she is making this decision. I think you should rethink this answer. You make it sound like she is a prostitute and he’s her pimp. Seriously! Again, they are not married – she does not owe him a thing.
pala says
Thank you
Jess says
Yes I agree with the above too
Max toste says
Dont listen to that garbage. I am a man and my girlfriend and I originally plannes on not having sex for a long while but it happened 4 times and it was great bit we decised that we d become stronger if we stopped and waited again. Ita been working out great. It ll be worth it.
Winniets says
I like this too, Sex can wait until marriage, I believe that’s the right thing.
Jean says
Thanks Amelia, finally another woman brave enough to speak the truth and give some common sense and balance to these sex topics. I say this all the time, but people, mostly guys get so offended and jump all over me and say I am a troll, just because I have my own opinion as a woman.
Many of the men on relationship sites, and some women site owners, are always telling women what we should do to keep a man. I say if it is that much work, then it is not worth it. They always threaten that the boyfriend will cheat on us or leave us, because of this or that . I say “Who cares, let him cheat, let leave.” Women have got to stop allowing men to argue their guy code doctrine, about how they need sex and we shouln’t deny them. One thing I know is that women can cheat as well. 3-22-14
Pastor says
The lady has realized her need to walk right with God though her desire for God differs from this guy answering,
It’s a good thing and I believe your a Christian, its God that spoke to you about it , so you don’t need to ask any counsellor, just go ahead and do what the spirit of God spoke to you
Hatemail says
Of course you have the right to say no to sex at ANY time
He has the right to say “No MORE” to an abusive marriage or relationship founded onf the false idea that he is bound to have NO SEX WITH ANYONE just because you don’t feel like it.
Aly says
Even married women are allowed to say no.
Peter 51 says
Do married women say anything else after the children are born?
henriette says
Please tell me that you are trying to be funny, @Peter 51. I know plenty of heartbroken wives who confide that their husbands have lost all interest in sex. And I know even more couples who maintain a happy, vibrant intimate life well after their children are born.
Jane says
Good point Aly 🙂
Hannah says
Yes!
Tyrone says
No one’s stopping any woman from saying no. They are informing them that there will be consequences for that action. A woman is well within her right to decide she doesn’t want to have sex anymore for whatever reason. And a possible consequence to this could be her boyfriend/husband exercising his right to leave and go find a partner that wants to have sex with him.
The “entitlement” here falls on the OP not the man. He doesn’t feel entitled to sex (or I should say nothing in the post suggests that he does). He doesn’t just think he can get sex whenever he pleases without doing anything. That is what him being entitled to sex would mean. He is being her boyfriend, aka the same thing he was doing while they’ve been having sex for 10 months. The relationship requirement that she made him fulfill before they started having sex. So it’s not unreasonable to expect your girlfriend that has been having sex with you becasue she is officially your girlfriend, to continue to have sex with you becasue she is still your girlfriend.
What is unreasonable, and somewhat entitled, is to change the terms of the relationship on your own, with no input from your boyfriend, expect him to go along with it, then become upset when he doesn’t. She changed things and just wants him to be ok with it and say nothing. He waited until it was official – sounds like that what she wanted. No issues there at all. But she has now decided she wants to stop and wait until things become more official. And she writes in because he has a problem with it. That is a perfect example of entitlement. No sex for him until he terms are met. Being that it is her body, she is entitled to let/not let anyone enter her. But her unilateral decision is now affecting her boyfriend’s body. So he is just as entitled to not buy into this and move on if the matter is important and he so chooses – just like she can.
Whether intentional or not, she is using sex to try and manipulate her boyfriend into doing what she wants, with zero consideration for what he wants. and that is just a shitty thing to do to your significant other.
Angellos says
Question to be asked are
1. Did she know God during the 10 months of sex
2. Does the boyfriend believe in God , if yes does she make him feel like the greatest sinner
3. In 10, month was he not addicted to have sex regularly! Would you blame him for cheating after u got him used to the daily pie .
Conclusion, don’t start a fire you can’t keep burning
Kristy Wallace says
God says through Paul in his word that actually married couples are not to say no to each other sexually unless they are both in agreement about it for some reason. Withholding sex from your married partner could lead them into temptation to cheat.. just like not having sex is a big deal to God when you’re not married, having an intimate sexual relationship between a married couple is a big deal to God as well.
Ali says
I agree. Married men are not entitled to have sex with a wife. No means no matter who it is. I was raised believing wives were to submit to their husbands and it turned into something no woman wants to experience. Men don’t have a say if a woman doesn’t want sex. Just that simple. If they stray, it’s their fault only. Learn self-control.
Fittermummy says
I was actually waiting for someone to acknowledge this… nice one!
Elon says
Um no lol. The analogy was spot on.
Not even getting into the religion thing cause many religious ppl have closed minds & narrow viewpiints. Great, and funny, advice 🙂
katie says
hey Elon, many non-religious people are narrow minded and have closed minds too, so what is your point? Have no idea how old this post is by the way 😀
starthrower68 says
Walking a narrow path is not the same as being narrow minded. 😀
cade says
Non religious people look at every religions few so yeah..
Jane says
It always amazes me when people claim “religious” people are closed minded or narrow view pointed .I would encourage you to first try and understand why you see it that way, if you feel too lazy to try and comprehend I would have to point the finger at you being closed and narrow minded. (Not religion by the way) God is God and will always be weather you see it to be religious or not. That’s the awesome thing about him and his word of life. But most people who believe in God know our foundation, it is not that we are closed minded but why be open to a thought or action that we know will destroy or tamper our relationship with the creator. And that makes us closed minded? We value his ways, Narrow minded in your eyes because we are well aware that certain actions we choose to take (which everyone has experienced ) can turn out to be damaging to the soul because we did not simply guard our hearts. When you have sex with someone you become one. But drink your tea and act like you dont understand what sex feels like. It feels GOOD!!! and yet. Everything that God has made for Good the enemy has used for evil. Sex is supposed to be fulfillment through your loved one, not to just negate your urge and satisfy your lusts. Funny how men expect us to give up one of the most precious things about us and fail to see the significance in putting a ring on it. They are asking for everything with no true efforts. Marriage proves to a woman she is all yours. And when shes all yours. Take her to bed she will bave no problem giving it to the man that makes her feel secure.
Logan says
She owes him the same respect that she would expect to get and/or deserve if earned. If they are serious enough that she wants to get married then by now sex is an integral part of the relationship. You might as well cut off love for some reason and expect the other person not to change and accept it. Sex is part of a relationship and should be treated as such, it is no a doggie treat or a tool to punish or reward. The divorce rate is so high in this country because people have come to treat relationships and marriage as disposable when the first bump or inconvenience comes along, not to mention that so many can’t grasp (or have never really been) being IN Love. I learned all of these things the hard way via my parents who both went through multiple divorces. My wife and I have been together for twenty years now.
…and lets be honest, if you treat sex as a tool or plaything now with him before you get married, no matter your reasoning, what makes you think he is going to think things will change when you marry him?
Nik says
I had the same situation with my girlfriend, and thats exactly what I’ve been wondering @ Logan
Ashley says
But whats the difference then if we live as a marriage already, what difference will it make to get married? There will be no interest in getting married if were already living as one? And if so then what to do if i want to get married with him though? Thanks
Karmic Equation says
Simple, Ashley.
If marriage is that important to you, you have to draw a hard line.
Tell him that marriage is very important to you. And that you would prefer to marry him rather than anyone else.
But if doesn’t feel he would be willing to get married within a year (or whatever time table you can accept), then it’s better that you know now so that you can free yourself to find someone else who WILL marry you.
Basically, do you feel marriage is important enough to break up with him over?
You have to have the strength and courage to stand by your convictions. So if the answer is yes, then you need to break up with him.
If the answer is no, then you accept you won’t get married…AND you don’t get resentful.
If the answer is not sure, you get sure before you talk to him. Know what your bottom line is.
Jessie says
I agree. I am trying very hard situation from sex for my boyfriend. But it had been part of our relation since the beginning. Here’s to trying to do the right thing.
Karmic Equation says
Don’t withold sex with the intention of trying wrest a marriage proposal from your boyfriend.
Break up with him and tell him that you’ve decided that since you’ve decided you can’t have sex without being married, the only fair thing to do is to free him to find a woman who WILL sleep with him without marriage.
You do realize that IS the fair thing to do if you love your bf right? He has a right to find someone who will make him happy, just as you have a right to find someone who will marry you before you have sex again.
Cynthia Borelle says
We grow and change our minds. It’s ok.
Conny Montjane says
Most relationship are based on sex and not love, and if she leaves my dear then he’s not the one. You were having sex and you realised is wrong, and if you want to do this to please God then don’t worry about what people say. Man need to learn the basic of relationship are not based on sex, not all man but some man. Respect yourself enough to wait for the right time and he will respect you too. Rather loose people than God
ana says
how is saying she now realizes her sin and choosing to stop, using sex as a tool or plaything? I’m sure you’ve done wrong in your life and grew and realized it was wrong. You can’t bring up someone’s past to invalidate their growth. It may not be growth in your eyes, but to her it is. She likely understands that we live to please the lord because he is who died for our sins. we do not live to please man. God says those who have ignorantly sinned will not be as harshly punished as those who knew and deliberately sinned. God tells us women who fear the lord are women to be praised. She understands Gods power and what he can do. We do not live to please eachother. If you’re not christian or a follower of Jesus, then you wouldn’t know. But again, she has not used sex as a plaything or a form of reward of punishment. She is not punishing him.
Emily says
I agree with Amelia. You are never obligated to have sex with someone, and if your boyfriend threatens to break up with you due to the lack of sex, screw him. If he really loves you that wouldn’t matter to him. Overall, I found this article sososososo offensive.
Mac says
“If he really loves you that wouldn’t matter to him.”
Right here is where things get really one sided. Lets turn this around; Maybe if she really loved him she would put her god fearing ways aside and have sex with him because she truly loves him. In my opinion this girl loves god, a piece of paper from the state, and a an expensive party more than she loves him. Her boyfriend potentially loves her through and through, emotionally and physically, and in greater depth than whatever else is going on in his life.
The writer needs to find a guy who is just as committed to god as she is.
Her boyfriend on the other hand needs to find someone who is as committed to their relationship as he is.
There is nothing wrong with either of them. I think Evans response was pretty fair to both sides. He was giving her insight on something she may or may not have understood, which is exactly why she wrote her story in the first place. Quit freaking out ladies.
Carsade says
Well thats the main point mate as a believer God is supreme over all…we are taught to love God with our whole heart and soul not man…it is wise to be Godfearing and foolish to follow the carnal ways of man…there is no point non-religious people responding to her post as her issue is religious based
Karl R says
Carsade said:
“there is no point non-religious people responding to her post as her issue is religious based”
Interesting.
Yasmin specifically sought advice from Evan (who is agnostic). She was clearly seeking the advice of at least one non-religious person.
In addition, part of issue revolves around her boyfriend, who is either less religious or non-religious. Therefore, the people who are less religious or non-religious may have better insight into her boyfriend’s perspective.
And if you really want to compare a non-religious response to a religious person’s response, look at what Evan said (in comment #74) and what starthrower68 said (in comment #117). To me, it’s the same advice, just using different words.
Precious says
So she should place a human being who can still leave her before God her creator?
lisa says
I agree-someone may start off on the wrong foot but God allows U-Turns.If he values his relationship with God he should appreciate trying to correct getting off course-Plus I believe the Creator that made us knows what will give us the best happiest life ever- Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden paradise a perfect sinless blessed environment for the worlds first couple ruined by the entrance of sin and disobeying and rebelling against Gods one rule-dont eat of this one tree in the garden-have all the rest of any tree but leave this one alone or you will die-obey Gods word and live blessed- His word is his will- he doesnt leave us in the dark on how to live blessed-we choose blessings or curses-cast out of paradise because of sin in the human heart spirit and mind- dont forget the devil and all the lies and deception he used to slander Gods goodness to the first couple to blind their minds with lies about all the good things their sin and rebellion would bring them- it didnt turn out like he said at all but they lost everything that was good and got cursed and cast out and began to die and suffer from the first moment they sinned. Sin is always sin no matter how lovely its disgusied- and it always brings death and separation from God – But The Lord Jesus Christ suffered and died for our sins to save us from the ultimate separation from God -Hell -the place designed for satan who also fell and the fallen angels that rebelled with him-God never wanted any of that for humans and grants atonement for all sin when people receive christ and repent and turn from what they know is wrong.Being right with God is eternally important heaven or hell one day-the boyfriends feelings are important but not over Gods Word which teaches no immoral person straight or gay will be in heaven-all sinners who dont repent choose hell for themselves-God provides a way of escape take it.You and your boyfriend preferably- get married for the right reasons also or get out of it all together- there are good fair respectful reasons to readjust a bad original decision- Marry a guy who respects Gods word and isnt selfish or makes sex his god even over whats good for you both- he may see the light one day- but till then you follow Gods word so you can live blessed and have eternal life in heaven one day for doing whats right no matter what it requires.You have a conscience to keep peace with too-its there to keep you on track- some people have messed their conscience up as well and cant tell right from wrong anymore.If being right with God is important try not to be a bad witness anymore to your boyfriend-do the right considerate thing for all involved but Gods Word comes first you will answer for what you have done on earth one day -him too.
Jennifer Smiley says
It’s not really about sex. It’s more about that she unilaterally decided to change their relationship. You can’t make big decisions without consulting or considering your partner. If she’s doing it now, she’ll definitely keep doing it after they get married.
manda says
I agree that he is not entitled to have sex with her. No one is obligated to have sex with any other person, and this idea of entitlement to sex is an effect of a strong rape culture. She has every right to adhere to her religion in any way she sees fit or even say she wants to stop having sex. But even if they were married he is not entitled to sex either. If a spouse does not want to have sex, they shouldn’t be obligated to or forced to (which is what entitlement would imply).
Gerhard says
It’s not really an “obligation” to have sex. It’s just that sex is a fundamental part of a happy relationship, and if she is not meeting his need for sex he is also under no obligation to meet her need for anything, really.
I believe that Evan means that it is wrong of her to have her man believe that sex will be readily available in the relationship and then telling him that she has decided that sex will no longer be on the menu. In the same way he could decide that anything else in the relationship, that he has also led her to believe is fun for both of them, will no longer be made available by him. And allowing it to be further like sex, not allowing her to have that need that he is not satisfying, be met by anyone else.
Mark says
Not everyone thinks this way.
Sex is a fundamental part of a happy marriage. Having sex in a relationship that is not marriage is fornication, which is a sin because it goes against what God intended, because God intended sex for marriage.
JennLee says
Manda, I was totally with you up until you said that even once married, she is under no obligation to have sex with him. My understanding of the Bible says differently. If you are talking about state laws, then you are right, to an extent. It is legal grounds for divorce however. But the Bible tells both the man and the woman not to deny each other sex. It even goes so far as to say that once you get married, your body does not belong to you anymore. It belongs to your spouse. I do not believe this means that either can simply have sex on demand, but the implication is clear. Do not withhold sex. I suppose that is subjective. To me it means that unless you have a legitimate reason, such as illness, extreme fatigue from a hard day at work, or some other legitimate reason, then you should be open to having sex. In practice, this means that you simply make it a priority in your life sufficient that your spouse does not feel they are being denied sex. They have to be able to accept the occasional, “Not tonight Honey.” But, they should not have to accept a whole lot of them.
Since her reasons for not having sex now are religious and Bible based, she would be a hypocrite if she then went against what the Bible commands, once she is married. If she starts treating it as a reward, “only when I am happy with you,” or if she simply decides she doesn’t want sex in the marriage, she is going against what the Bible teaches and so she would be a hypocrite.
enyi says
Perfect answer
Flo Rod says
Very well explained…
lisa says
Even in marriage you are not supposed to defraud one another of sex without mutual agreement for a limited time for prayer and fasting legitimate cause- not manipulation- Never assume that because you are married and your bodies are not your own -they are Gods temple first and belong to Him-respect the temple and dont try to turn your spouse into some xxx porn star-dont marry a porn trained person to start with- perversion-adultery-pedophilia-the book of Leviticus teaches proper sexual boundries- no mother- sister- in-law sex-the book of song of solomon is very graphic erotic styled lovers poetry.Beautiful godly married sex- the best there is.You can always say no to sin and selfishness- just not to manipulate or defraud- marriage is a type of christ and the church- his bride- no room for perversion and playboy thankfully good sex is Gods idea . Learn from the best-Intercourse is vaginal -oral is not clear-other stuff is perversion-Stay with what you know is right till you are sure of the rest-dont fall for all the crap out there sick people who dont know God want. Dont marry a pervert to start with-You can say no for valid true sincere reasons but protect your closeness but start on good ground now if you didnt at first. Nobody can force anybody married or not to have sex against their wishes that is rape-sex crimes are a related topic to include in whats right and wrong in marriage-if it cant be done well and good why bother with it at all-Love is patient and kind not selfish- sacrifices for the good of another- has self control-sex isgood but Love is greater-The character of a man or woman is important also in sex-
stephanie says
I agree !
Gerhard says
I am a man, my fiance has recently done this to me.
It’s 4 months before the wedding, and I’m having serious doubts about our relationship because of this very big move she made without considering my feelings.
I feel exactly like Evan describes and I came to this site for help on this specific topic.
I’m sorry if all this happened to years ago, and I’m reviving an extremely old comment, but I can’t seem to see dates on this site.
starthrower68 says
You’re right to reconsider. If two people have such diametrically opposed values, they probably aren’t a good match.
jeremy says
@Gerhard: sorry to hear about your troubles, but at least she did it before you got married, not after.
It is interesting to note so many of the comments about how a man is not “entitled” to sex from his girlfriend/wife. True enough! But should you marry this woman and then have her exercise her right to refuse you sex, she would most certainly be entilted to half your assets and income for many years/perpetuity.
In a marriage, or even in any committed relationship, sex is the one thing that you can only do with your partner. If that partner unilaterally decides to refuse sex on a regular basis, they are negating the terms of the relationship IMHO, and at that point the terms need to be re-negotiated. If the couple can not come to terms that both accept, the relationship should end – penalty-free for both partners. As I said, you are lucky that you can end it penalty-free at this point, with no alimony payments or asset division hanging over your head.
Sherri Solomon says
That’s the ONLY thing you CAN do? Man you sure a multi creative outside the bedroom.
twinkle says
@Gerhard:
This is one of those times that the world makes no sense to me. My friend has recently ended his engagement to his gf of SIX YRS, a girl who by his accounts was a fantastic gf. But u’re getting married in 4 months to a woman who is so selfish and unpredictable (in a bad way). I wish I could do a swap where his ex-fiancee was your fiancee and your fiancee was his fiancee (but he’d dump her, of course, lol).
Look, i know this is a serious issue and after all u do love her i’m sure. But please think about what the others have said, esp Jeremy’s comment. This selfish unilateral decision-making is a giant red flag. I’d say the same thing to any loved one, male or female, who told me their fiance/fiancee had done something like that.
Gerhard says
@twinkle, @jeremy and @starthrower68
Thank you guys so much. You really helped me put things in perspective. It’s great to know there’s people like you around.
Keep it up!
starthrower68 says
Thanks for the props Gerhard but I bet you’d get a lot of disagreement on my being out there having any value. 😉
Alli270 says
I don’t know how old this comment is, or the replys that followed but I think a lot of people on here are pretty silly.
Gerhard, I hope you talked to your fiancé about this before making any rash decisions to end your engagement. What she is doing IS selfish, but only for one reason, she did not ask your opinion on the matter, she just decided.
But then at the same time, why the hell is this such a big deal? So she cut you off of sex for 4 months until you will be getting married and having sex together for the rest of your lives together! I have heard of people stopping having sex for whatever periods of time before their wedding even though they had sex before, and the reason? To make their first night as man and wife even more exciting! She is cutting you AND herself off! You are both cut off of something that felt great for the two of you so that once the night comes that you get married it makes it ten times better because you have both been wanting it so bad for this entire time! She isn’t “exercising her right to refuse you sex” as some people seem to be saying here, she if trying to make that first night even better! Maybe trying to make it feel like the first time without downsides.
as for some of the other comments I read, of course you dont OWE anyone sex, it should always be a decision you make, do I want to have sex or not? But if you decide not to before you are married, it doesn’t mean that you will always deny sex after you are married! And hopefully when you are married it isn’t to someone who will try and push and push sex on you if you really aren’t up for it. You obviously shouldn’t deny your husband or wife sex. And if there is no sex happening at all after you are man and wife, this might not be a healthy relationship. This is when smart people go to a couple therapist to find out what is wrong, or try new things to try and pick up their fallen love life.
And to Yasmin. He obviously isn’t going to be too thrilled with the idea, you have been having great sex for 10 months and then tell him you cant do that anymore. if you love doing something with someone and are told you can’t do it anymore until something else has happened, you won’t love it either. Evans warning is valid, not all guys will stick around through and decision like this. But as mentioned as well, it IS your body and you get to decide what you do with it! If you don’t want to have any more sex until you are married then don’t! But definitely try to discuss it deeper with your boyfriend as well. He said ok to no sex, but you seem to feel it isn’t sincere. Try asking him if he feels this is unfair. And find out if there is a way you can both meet in the middle. There are other ways to ‘have fun’ other than sex.
Immapounds says
You said it all Alii270. This is the best reply I have read.
Ally Christ says
This might not make scene to you but in laying down sex you will prepare you for her ,and thirsting for her I am a christian as well and God asked me to do same thing it’s about knowing her and saverying the union to come, and showing commitment ..I believe God can carry you through and make it even better then what you expierenced..if not whose to say God wouldn’t yank u out of herr life,, if you know bible story abraham and sarah God promised a child and in time they had one issiak God then ask him to sacrifice his son,Abraham did as God called him God was testing him to to see if he would trust him and he did and brought the lamb ..sex is flesh still sin with marriage its beautiful I understand there’s a lot of views but if you love her isn’t she worth the wait showing no matter time changes that,it shows her your honering her, Gods little princess and in knowing you will walk it out with her,she will care more for you because your sacrificing your flesh as well.
Donna Payne says
You don’t need to worry about it, Gerhard. I don’t know how old this comment is, though. She’s doing the right thing. And she loves you. And what she’s doing might even show how much she loves you. Respect what she’s doing, and tell her you respect it, but explain how you feel about her not considering your feelings. Just make her aware of the fact that you feel like she didn’t consider your feelings, or make her aware of whatever you feel. But be nice when you talk to her about it.
Flo Rod says
Amos 3:3
Do two walk together unless they have agreed to?
It’s biblical…you both should hv agreed to this together …
That too is biblical …she can’t pick and choose parts of the bible 😞
Emil says
So .. Let me get this straight, when people are married, they’re owed sex? The man/woman is not allowed to withhold his/her body if he/she feels like it whilst married?
JennLee says
That is correct. If a woman is going to withhold sex from her boyfriend or fiancee, until they are married, for Biblical reasons, then they should also accept the other side that says they are not allowed to withhold sex, or should not withhold sex from their spouse.
Most Christians today don’t see this as being able to demand sex at a specific moment, rather a broader interpretation meaning that you don’t make a practice of withholding sex to the point that the other person feels deprived of sex, which would lead to them being tempted to be unfaithful to their spouse. If you have a headache 5 or 6 nights a week, that’s a problem. The suggestion would be to seek counseling with the pastor to get marital problems solved that are eating away at the love between the two people.
mine says
I agree! If anything,if he were to “cut her off” or leave then he would be showing how selfish he really is, its true hes not entitled to this womans body! I hope she didnt take evans advice
Jack says
Amelia, Stop being a fuckboy. They have been going out for 10 fucking months. She need to be smart and realize, a) she already fucked by having sex (since it is against her beliefs) B) Her boyfriend’s sexual tension will reach its limit and he will make a back choice in the heat of the money. Yasmin needs to fucking accept human nature. You people need to stop being fuckboys because she can’t un-fuck herself. Also she would rather ruin a perfectly good relationship just to try and gain a better relationship with a fictional being. This is ludicrous.
Sarah says
God forgives our mistakes and no one is too far gone to not change course and follow a path for success. Christianity believes in sex being in a committed marriage bond between a husband and wife. There is no obligation , only love and true love waits for the other one because sex is not about getting what we want … It is about unselfishly giving our whole self to the one we are with… And if she believes that she should get closer to God because he says that sex is for marriage- then good for her! If you don’t stand for something…. You fall for anything!!
Ron says
Wow really Jack?
she obviously does know that she messed up that is why she is trying to stop, hence her telling him she needed to stop having sex. Also she obviously realized it was a good relationship, one that she didn’t want to risk ruining any more by a worldly sin. And this “fictional being” you speak of “ruining” her relationship over isn’t fictional in any means. The is more evidence of God walking this earth then you would realize. There is more PROOF of God’s life on this earth then there is of the first president of the United States being alive.
lisa says
Its a shame no decent parents raised you to be respectful of others-Your using constant profanity isnt cool- its ignorant and low class-If you cant communicate unless you f- word everything there are dictionaries that can help you expand your teenager vocabulary- grow up – show respect to others reading this blog or get off it.
Roshelle says
Amen! And yes God is forgiving but there is nothing wrong for her wanting to honor Him by waiting til marriage.
Mark Ribbands says
Which God?
There are so many in the news at the moment, I get confused.
You may be demonstrating ethnocentric presumption here.
Johnathan says
I’ll be honest , he makes a legitimate point. For women sexual activity isn’t a big deal, but men are different , usually once you start. You are “entitled” to sex or some form of sexual activity. If we are refused this our mind wanders to other people thinking about whether or not they would satisfy us in the ways that our girlfriends refuse. On another note , Evans comparison to driving privileges was spot on , I’m not really sure how you didn’t understand that , it was perfectly explained. It’s underhanded to take that away once you’ve given it to a guy , because we all know that the girl enjoys it too. Men crave it , women don’t , fact of life. Ignorance and simple mindedness is what was just displayed by you , try to look at things from both sides instead of one. Just trying to help
JennLee says
@Jonathan, you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. It is not like talking away driving privileges. Driving privileges have nothing to do with a person’s religious beliefs. What you seem to miss here is that this is an opportunity for him to show that he cares about her as a person, as a friend, not just as a sperm receptacle. It’s an opportunity for him to show that the relationship is about more than his dick. It’s an opportunity for him to help make the love bond between them much stronger. Respecting her wishes here, would pay huge dividends in the future.
Some little boys will whine that it feels like they are being pressured. Boo hoo! Cry me a river, because you men don’t care that many women feel pressured to have sex if they want to get to the relationship phase. But smart women are waking up to the fact that a truly quality man will wait, and build a good relationship first.
Having the attitude of, “if you won’t give me sex, I’ll go find someone who will,” isn’t going to win a woman’s heart. What will do is kill what love and respect she has for you. Sometimes, to make a relationship grow, you have to put your desires on the back burner, and move your woman’s needs to the front burner.
A man would simply sit down with her and talk about it. When he learns that this is very important to her, he would simply accept that he has to make some decisions. He first has to ask himself what he expects out of the relationship. Does he love her? Does he want a lasting relationship with her, or is he “just kickin it?” If he loves her and wants a lasting relationship with her, then it shouldn’t be too hard to wait for a little while. If he isn’t sure, then he has to figure that out.
The simple fact is that this is all about choices. And in this instance, he has to choose between her heart and his dick. He can choose to take the easy way out, and go find a new sperm receptacle, or he can stay and build a strong relationship with her. Or, he can also just whine about how unfair it is, like a little boy would. The choice is his. Nobody is forcing him.
Evan Marc Katz says
Actually, YOU couldn’t be more wrong if you tried, Jenn. She’s changing the terms of their agreement, and expecting there to be no ramifications. It would be like a guy who says he wants to quit his six figure job to meditate. Would the woman have a right to move on to a more financially stable partner? I would think so.
So stop suggesting that he’s all about sex. He’s not. But if any partner in any relationship (male or female) turned around and decided that sex was off the table, the other partner would be well within his rights to reconsider. To suggest otherwise is puritanical and foolish.
In Not Of says
That’s why it’s generally a good idea for people of strong faith to only date other people of strong faith. The beliefs and values are far too different, and there’s no way to reconcile the two unless the person of strong faith compromises.
JennLee says
Evan, I never said he didn’t have the right to move on. In fact, I said he had to make decisions. I’ve said before, in other posts that he has the right to move on. What he doesn’t have the right to do is whine like a little baby about it, like some of the guys here do. She has a right to make that choice for herself. If he can’t live with that choice, he can move on. His choice. He doesn’t have the right to try to guilt trip her over this when this is something that is obviously very important to her.
And, there is NO agreement to have sex. as a condition for a relationship to exist. I don’t know a single women whose man sat down with her and said, “OK, we can have a relationship so long as you give me sex.” People just start having sex. For most of us, we just respond to the guy’s advances.
The problem here is that this is a very important thing to this woman. Nobody is asking you to agree with her beliefs, but how can you honestly sit there and not agree that IF he loves her, and is interested in the long term relationship, he would stay with her through this. Men need to stop acting like they are slaves to their dick. Real men can control themselves. I know men who have gone to sea for many months at a time. Women sometimes get medical conditions that make it hard to have sex for a while. If I were this woman, I would ditch him unless he can be understanding and supportive. If a man can’t agree to be celibate for a short period while they determine if they will marry, and then actually get married, then is he likely to remain celibate if life causes an interruption in their sex life, such as rough pregnancy, injury, illness, or being separated by distance for some reason. Some men won’t wait, and those men are not high quality. If he is understanding and supportive, then he’s a keeper.
He doesn’t have to like it, but he does have to deal with it, IF he wants a relationship with her. How he conducts himself if he does want a relationship, is also important. Acting like a victim isn’t going to help things. At the same time, she is expecting too much if she expects him to like it. They should both act like adults. Sit down, talk about it, make a decision, and then move forward, whether it is on separate paths, or the same path. If you choose the same path, do so in a positive manner. And tell me Evan, what is wrong with this? What couldn’t be more wrong about it?
Paige says
I wholeheartedly agree you Jenn! Evan’so response Yasmine’s question concerning sec in a relationship is very one-sided. I understand if you aren’t religious, but I don’t agree with the way his viewpoint was presented. I, myself believe that there are certain sacrifices that would need to be made if you’re looking to gain a closer relationship with God and one of them would be holding off having sex in a relationship since it is stated in the Bible that fornication (premarital sex) is a sin. It would be difficult to have a deep, intimate relationship with God while committing a sin and knowing in your heart that it’s wrong. True, Yasmine could have asked the church, but to discredit or mock her beliefs is ignorant. And for anyone who thinks she’s holding off sex for commitment is also ignorant and small-minded. Sex is not an easy thing to give up especially if it’s been a consistent part of their relationship for a long period of time so for her to suddenly decide to omit sex for the ring wouldn’t make any sense, unless of course, she’s trying to grow spiritually and yes, if she means anything at all to her boyfriend he would at least try to understand and support her decision. If he’s not into then he or even she can move on and they can both find someone who they’re more compatible with.
kristin says
As a feminist, I think this article is well-written and clever. You guys are misunderstanding the author’s intent. In NO WAY are they saying that she owes her boyfriend sex. On the contrary, she is free to make deny sex to whomever she chooses. Only she has the right to ddictate what she does with her body. Her boyfriend is not entitled to her body. However, she is not entitled to her boyfriend either. She certainly doesn’t owe her boyfriend sex. But we can assume, like most of us, her boyfriend prefers a relationship with both emotional and physical intimacy. She may choose the path of abstinence, and in return he may decide to end the relationship. Neither of them would be wrong in doing so. I agree with the author that this would be a poor decision on her part, since she would deny her own pleasure and possibly make someone who cares about her very dearly feel unfulfilled and unwanted, all to be “closer to God” somehow. Whatever that means. But it is her choice to make. FYI, all of you who say married women owe their bodies to their husbands are wrong. I don’t care what’s in the Bible. Your body belongs to you and only you.
SparklingEmerald says
Kristin at 1.15 said “But it is her choice to make. FYI, all of you who say married women owe their bodies to their husbands are wrong. I don’t care what’s in the Bible. Your body belongs to you and only you.”
_________________________________________________________________
I am a heathen, so I don’t care what’s in the bible either, but if a woman doesn’t want to share her body with a man, then she shouldn’t marry him. If it feels like a chore or an obligation, she shouldn’t marry him. If she is not joyfully and willingly able to share her body with a man (most of the time) she shouldn’t marry him. If a woman marries a man and wants to take some hardline stance that she doesn’t “owe” him her body, than I say he no longer owes her his fidelity.
Let’s turn the this statement around, and instead of sex, let’s change that to conversation. If a man came to this blog and said “Married men don’t owe it to their wives to talk or listen to them. I don’t care what any marriage counselor says. Their lips and their ears belong to them and only them. ” How do you think a statement from a man like that would go over ?
Kristin says
I’m not sure if you missed the finer points of my argument, but I never defended this woman’s decision as deserving of sympathy. Many people in the comments section said that a woman’s body belongs to her man and I was simply arguing against that point. But if you re-read my statement, you will also see that I argued that if she entered an intimate, loving relationship with a man she truly cared about and then she later went on to decide to withhold intimacy from him in the future, that is her right as a person. Do I think it’s totally idiotic? Yes. But I’m an atheist, so I can’t imagine giving up real, tangible love in return for a better relationship with “God”. She loved this man and she was intimate with him in the past and it must hurt him to know that she is not interested in any further intimacy. But it’s her life and she can’t change the way she feels. No matter how nonsensical it is to me, being abstinent is the only way she feels she can be closer to God and that is very important to her. She owes her boyfriend nothing and he owes her nothing. There will be consequences for her actions and they will be deserved. If her boyfriend is unhappy with a non-sexual relationship, then by all means, I would encourage him to leave her. And if their relationship does end as a result of her choice, then that’s unfortunate for the both of them. But that is the path she must choose, and her decision isn’t wrong. Neither is his if he chooses to leave her. Sometimes people never find compromise and have to go their separate ways as a result. It’s a normal part of life.
SparklingEmerald says
Kristin replied to me: “Many people in the comments section said that a woman’s body belongs to her man and I was simply arguing against that point.”
Thanks for clarifying. In your post that I was replying to, you used the word “husband” instead of man.
to wit: “Kristin at 1.15 said “But it is her choice to make. FYI, all of you who say married women owe their bodies to their husbands are wrong. I don’t care what’s in the Bible. Your body belongs to you and only you.”
Your initial comments were speaking of MARRIAGE, but you are now speaking of NON-MARRIED relationships.
However, as a fellow heathen, I don’t care what the bible says either.
As far as anyone “owing” sex to anyone or “owing” their bodies to anyone,in a marriage or relationships, (weather you think the sex “obligation” starts on date 3 or the wedding), I think if couples, married or not, are in a continuous mode of meeting their sexual “obligations” with each other, the relationship or marriage is in SERIOUS trouble.
Love making should be a JOY in a relationship, not just one more chore to do like taking out the garbage or sweeping the floor.
Occasionally, one partner might not be really feeling in the mood, but see’s that their partner is really needing their physical affections, and that’s fine. But when the entire relationship becomes about one person collecting the “sexual debt” owed to them, then YIKES, time to examine and heal the relationship or end it.
JennLee says
One of the problems with marriage is that the law, and courts view it as a contract, yet very few people draw up a contract, a prenup, to give details to that contract. Thus we fall back on what the government cares about, which is primarily things such as money, child support, alimony, property, child custody, etc… Nowhere does the law care about sex. It used to, before no-fault divorce. One person or the other not meeting their “marital duty” was grounds for divorce, as was infidelity. In this way, it was understood that even if the other person didn’t literally “own” your body, they had exclusive sexual rights to it; rights that you willingly granted them through marriage. And it was fair because it went both ways, and again, it was a voluntary understanding.
Today, even though the courts seem to care very little about sex, so long as it is not sex that breaks the law, most people still see it as a part of marriage. If you poll thousands of people, the vast majority are still going to say that they believe sex is an integral part of marriage. Many would even say, “what’s the point of getting married if you aren’t going to have sex?”
I’ve always thought that the way the contract of marriage in this country is viewed by the courts, is a bit off. For instance, if I marry a man who went to college, and has turned that into a lucrative career, and then he marries me, and we now live together, I will share in his lifestyle, and I fully expect that to happen. But if I divorce him, I do not believe I have some God given right to part of his paycheck, just as he no longer has rights to my body. The notion that I have the right to continue living the life he provided me as his wife, if I leave him is a silly one at best. A lot more women feel that way, now that they may be the one who makes more money in the relationship. They see that the old way was not actually fair to the person who made more. I do however, think this should not be no-fault. I would feel differently about it if I have been faithful with both my heart and body, and then one day he runs off with his secretary. When it comes to contracts, there is always a penalty for defaulting, and not honoring your commitment to the other party involved.
So, now we come to my belief on sex, and what is “owed.” Sorry, but I feel very strongly that you owe your spouse sex. If you don’t feel you can honor that, get out of the marriage. Free the other person up so that they ca go find somebody who will honor their commitments.
That said, I don’t think this means sex on demand. You may legitimately have a headache, feel sick, be tired, feel super stressed (though sex actually relives stress) due to a pressing issue at work. Then you have the right to say, “not tonight.” However, if “not tonight” turns into a nightly saying, your marriage is in trouble. Don’t be the least bit surprised if he/she finds somebody who makes them feel wanted. If you were constantly denying them sex, or if you only give it as a reward, then you have no right to complain when you find out your spouse is cheating on you.
B says
Kristin you nailed it.
I am FEMALE and my boyfriend just did this to me. He decided, without consulting my feelings, that we are going to be celibate now after a year of being physically intimate. Then when I asked him when we would get married he had no clear idea. So you want me to be celibate until marriage but you’re not sure when you want to get married. Ok, I think not.
It is not fair of any party in a relationship to change expectations midway through the relationship out of nowhere. I understand that now he wants to be celibate but guess what – he can be celibate with someone else because I am leaving. I am not going to wait around being celibate with someone who may or may not ever marry me.
Caroline says
Your last sentence totally contradicts your whole speech.
Richelle says
Karmic Equation says
And from HIS point of view, it could be said, “If she loves me she will continue to have sex with whether or not we’re married. Her not doing so means she loves the idea of marriage more than she loves me.”
Tell him flat out you want to get married now or you’ll end the relationship, pregnant or not.
If you got pregnant to force his hand, shame on you.
If you want to get married because you got pregnant even though you practiced safe sex, well, you should have been practicing safer sex (he uses a condom, while you’re on another form of bc). It’s not fair to ask him to pay the price of marriage if that was not a foregone conclusion before you got pregnant.
Richelle says
Im Not forcing marriage at all truthfully idk if I want to and we both was foolish and did care about the fact I could get pregnant. It just happened a relationship has to work together if he isn’t going to respect her for what she wants and it’s right this world is just making sex b 4 marriage 2nd nature and completely ignoring the fact that it’s a comittment to one another for the rest of our lives and sex is a gift to married couples then they are not equally yoked and they both need to pray about things.
wallace says
Many Christian girls are shocked to discover they’re pregnant, even after going on birth control pills. While they’re on BC pills, their men don’t wear condoms. There’s nothing to protect them from their boyfriends’ sperms.
david says
Hi Amelia, I disagree. The reason being that, if she knew that, why did she accepted it the first place? It shows that, even if they were married it could still be the same story all in the name of God. So marriage or not she was suppose to seek for his concerns before taking that decision
lily says
no matter what her reason was, even if it was not related to religion, she has her reason for not wanting to have sex anymore.
If she feels that having sex with her boyfriend is distancing her from her spiritual endeavours, then that is HER truth and a logic amongst many others (hers being divine). and life changes with time, sometimes we do things and we learn and we want to build things in a different way. If she talked with her boyfriend about it and feels like he is not willing to give up sex for HER wellbeing, then maybe it is a concern and she needs to sit down with her boyfriend and get into a process of choice. Or he chooses or she does. Sometimes, we have to loose things to reach a greater state of mind and fulfil a humble and worth-a-thousand-of-losses type of desire.
Jaki says
Amelia, I totally agree with you. I’m so ashamed of Evan. He often has really brilliant answers to questions. But this is down right offensive. She has no legal or moral obligations to continue sleeping with a guy if she doesn’t feel comfortable doing it.
Russell says
To be fair, Evan does not say she has a moral or legal obligation to sleep with him. This boils down to one simple concept, which covers many things besides sex. If you renegotiate the terms of the relationship, do not be surprised if the other person opts out of the deal, and leaves you. I support her decision to abstain for religious reasons. I would also say that if the man truly lived her, this would NOT cause him to leave her right away. If a man truly loves her, this would make him want to talk to her, but not leave. They would have a very deep, thorough discussion about the future. If they have been together for a year or two, he would need to step back and think about whether he can truly see himself ever marrying her. He has to make a value judgement. Does he stay, and continue to get to know her, or does he bail out immediately. In my opinion, his decision rests on one thing…does he truly live her. If he loves her, but can’t see himself getting married in the next year or two, then he probably doesn’t live that much, or he just wants to remain single. Either way, it would be better for her if he chose to move on.
I would think that if he truly loved her, but was unsure, he would not want to make a decision to leave. Maybe give it a year for him to sort through his thoughts and feelings.
Chelle says
Thank you, Amelia. I totally agree with you. That answer was horrible. I completely understand where this woman is coming from and unless you understand (which Evan clearly does not) the conviction one feels when trying to move closer to God and have your steps ordered by Him, one would not be in the position to reply to the writer’s question. He should have skipped this one
Evan Marc Katz says
She asked a question. I gave an answer. If you (and God) don’t like it, you may frequent another site where an unseen deity has a say over your private parts. It’s just not this one.
RustyLH says
Evan, I have a question, and understand that this is just coming from curiosity, and not meant in any way to be controversial. I am just truly curious.
So you believe there is a God? I ask because the answer above indicates that you don’t. No problem, not judging at all. Just important to know for the following question.
OK, so if somebody who is born into a Christian family, and then decides that they do not believe in God, and think he does not exist, they call themselves Atheists, not Christians. If asked which ethnic group they belong to, they would say, European, African, Asian, etc…
However, it seems that the same is not true with Jews. Those who do not believe God actually exists, still refer to themselves as Jewish. Why? Wouldn’t be more correct to refer to yourselves as something like Hebrew, or German, or Polish, or whatever group a DNA test would reveal they belong to?
I guess I do not understand why people who don’t believe in a God, would still refer to themselves as part of a group centered around the belief in a specific God.
I asked a friend, who is not Jewish, but dated a Jewish girl. He said that his best guess was that boiled down to Jewish people tend to be very successful in school and their careers, so while they no longer share the religious beliefs, they still want to be associated with those of the religion, because of the success of that group.
Just curious and wanted to know so I can understand.
Evan Marc Katz says
Perfectly fair question and, predictably, I’ve written about it before. Lemme know what you think.
RustyLH says
I clicked on the link, and read it. In it, a couple of times you refer to yourself as Jewish, but that’s all I saw regarding religion, or your religious beliefs. It was a great read, but didn’t seem to answer my questions, which were:
1. Do you believe God exists. Often, your answers indicate that you don’t. Again, I don’t judge people one way or the other, on this. It’s everyone’s personal choice.
2. If you do not believe in at least the basic tenants of Judaism, why would you refer to yourself as Jewish?
3. Why do people who were Jewish, but do not believe in the basic tenants of the religion, still refer to themselves as Jewish.
I am not sure I every met somebody who has Atheist beliefs, tell me they were either a Christian, or Muslim. Only Atheists who were Jewish, will tell me they are Jewish. I have met many atheists who say, “I’m Jewish.” I’m just curious as to why this is. I only have theories. Either my friend is correct. Or it has to do with family, in some manner. Or still feeling connected enough to the community to still identify as a member, etc… Or, maybe Jews see being a Jew as more than just the religion.
Again, just curious.
Evan Marc Katz says
Ugh. I put in the wrong link. Here’s the right one: My Boyfriend is a Jewish Atheist and Wants His Children Raised Jewish.
RustyLH says
Evan,
Good read. Explains a lot. So it is viewed more as an ethnicity/culture, than a religion. Only difference is that you can convert to a religion, but not an ethnicity. You can assimilate into a culture, however.
There are many places in this world, where you can move there, and live there, and never be fully accepted, because you are not actually one of them. There is a White South African man who moved to China and married a doctor. He has a YouTube channel, and talked about how it has been made clear to him that though he lives there, and is married to a Chinese woman, he is NOT Chinese, and will NEVER be Chinese.
The majority of the world is actually like that. My Economics professor has been to many places, and he said that in each one of them, it was made clear to him that he would never be whoever they are. Only Americans accepted him AS AN AMERICAN, before he even got his citizenship.
I have met, and known some very beautiful Jewish women. If I had it to do all over again, I would not marry who I did, but I don’t think I could marry any of the Jewish girls. Just seems like there would be so many more hurdles. I would not convert, and would not ask her to convert, so it wouldn’t work. I don’t think you have to have everything in common, but I think it is better if you have core beliefs in common.
Also, this is something new, and people have to deal with it, as you say, but that isn’t easy. And you should at least have some empathy for your in-laws. Put yourself in their shoes. You gave a very logical, and passionate explanation for why you want your children raised Jewish.
Now imagine your child falling in love with somebody who is Muslim, or a very devout practicing Christian, and you are informed that your grandchildren will NOT be raised Jewish…at all. If you are honest, you can’t want that for your children, and not want it for your grandchildren. If you are honest, that would bother you a lot. But, not as much as what it does for your M-I-L. If she is a devout Christian, she now believes that her grandchildren will be denied entry into heaven.
I get it. You don’t believe that, but she does. Obviously her daughter, your wife, wasn’t as firm in her Christian/Catholic beliefs, or she wouldn’t have agreed to not raise them to believe in Jesus, as the divine son of God.
Just saying this is not an easy issue, so I don’t believe that it is one I would choose to enter voluntarily. I do respect the right of others to do so, because we all have free will, and nobody has the right to tell us what to believe, or who to marry, or how to raise our kids…so long as we aren’t raising them to be an axe murderer.
Also, not sure why somebody thought I had an issue with this. I didn’t. Was just curious, because the term, Jewish Atheist is not uncommon…but what you never hear is anyone describe themselves as Christian Atheist. So I was just curious.
Evan Marc Katz says
FYI, I didn’t ask my wife to convert. She still believes what she was taught in Catholic school. She just doesn’t practice or impose a practice on our family.
Lynx says
Rusty: There are Christian churches that accept atheism among congregants, Unitarian Universalists and Unity are examples. The term “Christian Athiest” may not specifically be used, but the concept is there.
Med says
I think his reply is quite spot on, and you’re right, married or not, she doesn’t owe him a thing. But vice versa, he doesn’t have to stay with her if she doesn’t meet his needs, in a sense, he doesn’t owe her a thing.
Kim says
Thanks dear, God bless you
Luis says
Even if you are married that doesn’t mean your entitled to sex from your partner.
Kay says
Well said. Thank you so so much
commyluv says
you are right with your sincere and polite answer
jason says
Psula says
Absolutely right. And even married, you can set up boundaries for your BODY. After sex, you are the one that has to live with the idea that maybe some nobody has been inside of you, who does not even care. If my husband does not care about my feelings, I do not care about his needs. Period
Paula says
Good Answer. The car does not have a life, is not needed to survive, it is not mandatory to be a biological being and does not have emotions, or feel pain. It is no comparison at all, just like her dad can not be compared to her bf/gf
Laura says
Thanks Amelia! You don’t know how much your comment has helped me!!!
linda says
very well said dear…you rock..we should never have sex unless we get married. he will not buy the cow if he gets the milk for free.
Ella says
Thank you Amelia.. i couldn’t read all of his reply bcus i got really pissed. Just so i make this clear to you Evan… drawing closer to God entiles you to be clean.. this lady is not married to this guy and my Bible tells me that sex before marriage is a SIN. It is shameful what this generation has turned into.. SEX which is meant for married people is now being used by many to buy relationships.
Jenny says
I like your comment you are very right
Esty says
totally agree..
Tom says
Youre right Amelia, she doesnt owe him sex, just as he does not owe her his cellibacy, but what do you think this woman would do if this guy said “ok we wont have sex” and then went out and got it elsewhere. Or what if this guy said “you know what, i wanna get closer to god and in order to do that I cant get you any more gifts or take you out on any more dates because it would be sinful to indulge you.” Im sure she’d leave. Same goes here, hes just lettimg her know, dont expect him to stick around for this BS and Im sure like some of the other commenters you think ” Well good! A worthy guy should never care about sex.” Im sure thats true in your utopian fantasy land but in the real world its insanely naive. If you want a guy to agree to something like that you need a man thats either asexual or a complete pushover. Short of that, its not happening. Just being real. The fact that shes under no obligation to have sex with anyone DOES NOT MEAN a man has to stay with her and put up with it. He is not ENTITLED to sex, and she is not ENTITLED to be loved. Too many unfortunate souls have bought into the feminist lie that you dont have to consider a mans feelings whatsoever while you deserve to be treated like a princess because vagina.
Alysia C LeFevre says
To answer your question: “And, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t God all-forgiving? I’m sorry. I really tuned out during Hebrew school.” God is not all forgiving if you don’t confess and repent. You have to be sorry and promise to try to live in his ways and try not to sin.
Noah says
calm down man like i’m young and even i understand evan more than i understand you. He talks as if the man is entitled to sex because there has already been 10 months of sex and he has not done anything wrong to be forced to stop having sex. I agree that the woman’s feelings are important but both people in the relationship need to be happy or else it won’t work. Therefore by logic if she wanted to do something like this it would be smart to do it at the beginning of the relationship unless you want only one party to be happy. Please bare in mind I am still in high school and I am a virgin so I admit I don’t know everything about the topic but it just seems obvious that it would be smarter to talk about religious values at the beginning of the relationship. This is also because it could change how the man reacts, for example if the man knows that as long as he is good and shows he’s a good person he can eventually have sex he would act better than knowing he’d wait (most likely over 2 years or so) to get married and finally be able to have sex then this could change how they react in certain cases (if they’re a douchebag).If they really love each other it would most likely be smart to only have sex on special occasions or once a week and never on a Sunday so she can get close to god 6/7 days of the week.
This is just my opinion
Noah
BING says
YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! THAT WAS THE WORST ANSWER I HAVE EVER READ!
Lyn Jones says
I totally agree and after 3 months of excellent sex, I have reverted back as well and this is because first of all, it is against what GOD’s words says, and we had decided not too twice. Secondly, since my boyfriend has been acting different with me: not calling as much, not visiting as much, being more critical of me, not spending enough time with me, intimacy needs to be taken off the table until the relationship gets back on course to growing and an engagement is on the table. If not, and he does not want to take this route then I will conclude that’ he isn’t I love with me, as he has stated frequently, and that we may need to part ways if he doesn’t begin to value me more.
James says
He’s right, you’re completely wrong. I would walk out the door the moment my girlfriend came up with this dipshit idea because there is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD MARRY SUCH A CRAZY ASS WOMAN.
This woman OBVIOUSLY has serious sexual hang-ups purported by a hypcritical wack-job of a religion.
“Get closer to God”? GOD CREATED YOUR DAMN SEX DRIVE, GOD MADE SEX FEEL REALLY GOOD!
You will die single and alone because no self-respecting, SANE man will marry you.
Joyce says
I strongly agree with you here. It’s her choice to get closer to God. A choice I think he should be wise to make also.
Uzzy says
God bless your heart
Honey says
Yeah, I don’t get this at all. But then again, I’m an atheist who’s happily been having pre-marital sex for 12 or 13 years…
Jennifer says
Evan,
Were you in a bad mood when you wrote this? You seem to be laying on the sarcasm thicker than normal with someone who came to you for advice.
FWIW, I have no problem with pre-marital sex and agree that changing the rules of the game in the middle is unfair to her boyfriend. This issue may be a sign that they are going on different paths and may no longer be right for each other.
On the other hand, the girlfriend is not wrong if she has a sudden desire to follow more ‘rules’ (as some people interpret them) from the Bible, whether that be not engaging in sex outside of the confines of marriage, not getting drunk or not doing any work on the Sabbath. To each their own.
She is wrong though, imo, for being surpised that her boyfriend is not anxious to jump on this bandwagon with her and for just assuming he would. Once her life choices start to effect him, as this one does, he gets a say in the matter.
So I don’t really disagree with you Evan, I just think you were pretty mean about it. In case you cared 🙂
Jean says
You cannot say that she is wrong. That is your opinion. You cannot decide what is wrong in their relationship.. She did what was good for her, just as when he does something that is good for him. . She may have made him uncomfortable in the change of habit, but she is not wrong for wanting what she wants. She decided that sex is no longer needed for her.
Why do we constantly make everything in a relationship about sex. Emotional connection is just as important for women, but I don’t see any articles that scold, criticze, then threaten men that their women will cheat if they are not satisfied emotionally. when we do not stress to men that they should satisfy us with foreplay and cuddling, and touch.
. We beat the “men need sex” horse to death. We need to stop with the push for sex, unless we are going to push for emotional connection too. Women get sick and tired of being scolded, criticized, and blamed, for not being wired like men. 3-22-13
The people in the world who want and love sex so much, jhave got to respect those whon hate it. Okay??
Madalina says
I don’t know how old this reply is but this has to be said:
WHAT THE F***?
Did you even read Jennifer’s answer before replying? Or did you just read the “she is wrong” on that paragraph and stopped there?
What she said in the first paragraphs was that it WASN’T wrong for Yasmin to change the rules, but that she WAS wrong to assume the boyfriend would just be OK with that. What part of that bothers you?
Jennifer is right, this change of her beliefs/attitude affects him as well so it’s natural for him to have a say. I’ll tell you, I try to be as supportive as I can with my boyfriend, but that “support in everything” is pure bullshit. I’ve had a boyfriend who suddenly had a change of heart and starting acting selfishly with everyone and everything around him, to the point where he actually tried to kill a dog that had bit him. We had been together for 2 years and it was great, but under the influence of some friend he started changing a lot. I feel no remorse for getting out of that relationship and not supporting him “no matter what”.
On a different scale, it may be the same case for them two. Her life changes may simply make them incompatible from now on and it’s not at all wrong for him to want out. Try putting yourself in his shoes (empathy, people, empathy) For example, if your boyfriend would suddenly decide for whatever reason that he didn’t want to kiss you for two years would you simply support him?
david says
Evan’s answer does make sense — esp. when he’s trying to see the situation and (lack of) logic through a guy’s — more specifically — her guy’s eyes.
Like that Chris Rock bit, “A man cannot go back sexually, a woman cannot go back in lifestyle.” (Kill The Messenger)
Sharia says
First off, Yasmin never said anywhere in what was posted that she was a Christian (you said someting about the New Testament, which is Christian). She may be, but you cannot assume that. Many non-Christian religions/spiritual practices advise celebacy. And Yasmin is an Arabic name, so she could be Muslim. Also, the “Church” refers specifically to the Catholic Church–besides not saying she was Christian, she certainly never indicated that she was Catholic. Neither did she say that she was doing this for religious reasons–she said that she is doing it to get closer to God. And even further–she never said anywhere in what was posted that the sex was good.
So, given your misunderstanding of where she is coming from, your advice is way off, in my book.
I applaud Yasmin’s decision to follow the dictates of her heart and listen to her spiritual calling. I also urge her to ignore your uninformed advice. One misstep on her part–besides writing to this site, which I doubt will be sympathetic to her situation–she cannot make others follow the dictates of her heart, and a spiritual calling is usually a private matter between oneself and however one defines “God.” True, others might join us in our callings, but generally speaking, they are subjective experiences. So she cannot impose her beliefs on her boyfriend. He may be just fine with premarital sex, and he may be fine with her reversal on the matter, even if he’s finding it difficult in practice. He may have issues himself with premarital relations (if he has a religious/spiritual practice similar to hers, let’s say) and he may be happy that she is setting the boundary. Or her reversal might be a deal-breaker for him.
If hers is a true calling, she can accept any of those scenarios. If he is not in agreement with her and decides to leave the relationship, perhaps it is because there is someone more appropriate for her waiting in the wings.
And here’s another news flash: Having sex with someone for a few months does not give them ongoing access to your body–not even in a marriage, and certainly not outside of it. Each person decides for herself what are the appropriate conditions under which she will have sex, and things can change. And yes, when things change, the partner may leave. You accept that, and this is what being true to oneself is all about. Other people have the right to be true to themselves. (Which brings us back to the discussion with Lorianne–if she doesn’t want to be married to a guy who has online affairs, she gets to leave. Who is going to stop her? Karl?)
Men leave women all the time because they just “have to have” some kind of sexual experience–that is their right, and we all know this based on the scores of men who do it everyday. Let’s not suggest that a woman has to keep putting out and give up her spiritual pursuits just to keep her guy. Really. Such backwards thinking.
rene says
Thnk u sharie…. I second yasmin
Nissa says
I also had the thought that her boyfriend might be on the same page with her in terms of making their relationship more serious, partly because the LW says “until we get married” which implies they are already planning a wedding. If they aren’t and the LW is planning one in her head, then this issue is a hidden blessing that tells the guy that they have totally different expectations. While I understand (and agree with) Evan’s point about this feeling like the LW is “switching the rules”, it makes sense that as the relationship deepened and got more serious, that the LW began to feel differently about her choices.
For example, if a guy met a girl in a time when he was open to love but his circumstances did not really support it (just started a business, just out of a bad breakup), he might act similarly. By this I mean the guy might start out being more casual, less consistent and attentive; but become more consistent, serious and attentive over time. The guy would probably be willing to have sex during this initial time, but once the girl became “the one” in his own mind, he would be more open to switching to “serious relationship rules” vs “GF/BF” rules, not because either of them is a jerk, but because they are both reacting to a shift in the relationship that has already occurred. However, it is likely that both of them will miss the intimacy of sex, having already gone down that path.
However, I don’t think that is what is happening here. The LW says “he just tries to ignore the subject” or “he agrees but I think he’s just saying it“. I think this is an example of ignore the positive, believe the negative. I think the boyfriend is hoping that the girlfriend will change her mind or agree to continue sex to keep him. If she doesn’t, get ready for the disappearing act. That’s what his behavior is saying. I hope the LW will realize that her boyfriend is being consistent here; she has changed. If her desires have changed, it makes sense that a new partner would be a better match for her new convictions. Frankly, I think he’s doing her a favor by dumping her so she can find someone who shares her values. I doubt the LW will see it that way, though.
Marc says
Yasmin,
I think you’re about to become single. Do the next dude a favor and tell him exactly where you stand on sex, so he knows what he’s getting himself into.
B says
Well said, Marc. I am female and agree.
Evan Marc Katz says
Thanks for echoing my point, Sharia. She can absolutely follow her true calling… she can also potentially lose her boyfriend in the process. That’s why she was writing me the email; because she was afraid of doing so.
I don’t blame Yasmin for putting religion first. I point out the inconsistency of her stance from a lay person’s (and maybe her boyfriend’s) point of view. Now that she sees another side to the story, she will be fully informed about making the right decision for her.
You don’t have to agree with my point of view to agree that it’s a valid point of view.
Jean says
Evan Marc,
Neither do you need to agree with women’s point of view, about her right to stop sex, because ….. “It is still a valid point.” 3-22-13
Abu Bakar Hasnath says
We boys at first look for LOVE
When we fall in love and try to impress a girl, other girls become jelous
Sharia says
@6: What makes me see your view as not valid is your apparent ignorance about religion/spiritual matters and, by extension of that, your mocking tone toward her beliefs. Who is invalidating whom here?
Also, the phrase “lay person” refers to 1) someone who is not a member of the clergy or 2) someone who does not have specialized knowledge. It does not refer to someone who has no general knowledge and, coincidentally, a bias against something.
Sharia says
My comments in 8 were directed toward EMK@7, not Marc@6.
JuJu says
No sympathy from me either. This is bait and switch! You can’t change the rules of the game in the middle of the game.
If a man I was with suddenly discovered god… well, I personally am not a good example – any kind of religious adherence is a deal-breaker for me, but sex-wise, if we suddenly stopped having it, that would be the end of the relationship. After all, what do I even need a man for??
The folks who are defending the letter writer seem to be forgetting that we are talking about the type of relationship that’s based on sex. If you just want someone to spend time with, hang out with your friends.
JennLee says
I thought it was the type of relationship that is based on love. The bottom line is that she has decided she wants to be closer to God. She appears to have had a general belief in God, but now wants to try to do what she believes she is supposed to do. We’ve all known people like that. They weren’t going to church, but if asked, they would admit that they believed in God. Then one day they start going to church and make some changes in their lives as a result. Her boyfriend simply has to decide if he can live with that. If not, he is free to move on, and that might even be the best thing, if he has no interest, or belief in God. This will be a growing wedge between them. He may want to go to parties and drink until he passes out. She may no longer be accepting of that. He may want to listen to gansta rap, or death metal music, but this may be upsetting to her now. He might like porn and she may not put up with it now. So both need to sit down and have a heart to heart talk. It might be better for them to move in different directions. If they agree to stay together, both need to understand there is no right to a victim status once the agreement is made to move together in one direction, presumably marriage.
Mike Adams says
I agree. You can’t change the rules. My girl friend of 18 months wants to stop. I have no say in the matter
jeremy says
You are wrong that you have no say, Mike. You can walk. If you feel that your GF is acting unilaterally, is not taking your feelings into consideration, and is not listening to you – WALK. Because once you are married, walking will cost you dearly and you will have to decide whether having a decent sex life and a certain amount of self-respect is worth your family life and half your assets in perpetuity.
You are not entitled to her sexuality. She is not entitled to a relationship with you.
Korovi says
I think Evan is right on the money here (religious affiliation assumptions aside). Sounds like the girlfriend wants to dangle the sex carrot in front of the guy so he proposes. Nowhere in her letter does she say that they decided to get married, so her boyfriend can see it as a desperate ploy to “push him over the edge.” Believe me, any hot-blooded male will see through it and is likely to walk away. In his mind he’ll wonder, “What if I get married to her and one day she decides that we will no longer have sex until [insert the desired result to be achieved before renewing sex here].” That’s a scary thought for a guy. Believe me “bait and swithch” technique never works long-term. Those of us who are realists (Evan included), sex for a guy is like talking is for a girl – very important in a relationship. Yasmin, imagine if your boyfriend decided in January that he no longer wants to talk to you until you get married?
Jean says
Not a fair comparison. That has no logic. Talking and sex, are not on the same plane, whatsoever. Sex is a strong desire. Talking is not just a strong desire, but it is a strong need and is one of the best means of commuication needed to inform people and give valuable information.
Imagine that you are trapped on a bus with one way out, and with people who are asleep. What will you do first, have sex with them, or yell at them and shake them to get out? What will sex do, will it save anyone’s life? When a man gets locked in prison for 10 years, what does he do about sex? Does he die, or keep living?
@HR Goddess, I wish you and others with like minds, would stop insinuating that women offer sex for marriage proposals. That is sooo left field. She may have given him sex, to satisfy his needs. It may have been tearing her up inside. Wow, the people here are so crippled by this sex thing. I really feel sorry for some of you. Sex has some of you in a stronghold. Some men are so blinded by getting some sex, that they do not put any work into the other part of the relationship.
Often women deny themselves being satisfied by their men in bed, all throughout the marriage. This is a true fact. Give a survey and allow the women participants to complete it anonomously. You will find out some startling facts. I know, I hear women talk all the time about this. Sex becomes a chore for a woman, when a man just thrusts. Thrusting is satisfied for him, but null and void for the woman.
A man’s ego can cause his wife to hold back on telling him that he is a lousy lover and that she has not been satisfied since she was dating, all while he is getting satisfied through the thrusting in one of her body cavities. These women do not look forward to sex with their husbands, because the men are either too selfish, too lazy, or just simply, do not know how to satisfy them. 3-21-14
Boyfriends like the one mentioned in the article, may never find success in a relationship, if he is going to bail out simple because someone does not to do things his way. If she is worth him having sex with, why not go ahead and marry her? Good point. You see, evidently, he just want to get the milk, with ot buying the cow. Typica males, often, just want to play.
We must stop criticizing women for wanting to be married and having babies.
Ken says
You are vicious.. So can you go back and fix our evolution? Sorry its easy for men to get satisfaction, evolution did not give us anything other than that. No man is perfect, i’m actually terrified of women because of things like this. I avoid women because of these very things being said, its true, in this day and age a woman doesnt need a man. That terrifies me, it makes me feel as if the only way i’ll find love, is if I get lucky and she decides to put up with me for the rest of her life.
So I do have a question, since you like examples so much. What do you trust more? Actions or words? As the boyfriend in the article above was having sex, and suddenly it stops.. lets just assume..for a moment, that he’s sensitive? Caring? Wants to know why his girlfriend is no longer wanting sex? She gives him “to be closer to god” Now that is empowering, and totally her right, however, how is he going to know that she loves him? Is he simply just going to take her word for it. “I love you, i’ll just never show it or show you that I think your attractive” That’s basically what it means to men who care when sex is cut off… we like being told and shown that women love us, how else can it be done? I cant read minds, i’m just supposed to take her word for it that she loves me, and that cutting off sex and intimacy is proof of that? Its confusing.
Holly says
Yikes. This guy’s response reminds me of a bad abstinence PSA. You know the one where the boy said, “Oh come on, it’s no big deal, if you really loved me you’d do it. ”
There are many different ways a woman can demonstrate love for a man. She doesn’t need to rip off her clothes for him.
Paige says
Ken, expresting love can be done in many ways other than sex. We are not animals. Unlike them we can control our desires, we’re just too weak most of the time and give in. HaVing a closer relationship with God doesn’t mean that they love you any less. Some people who are in relationships and decide to follow Christ, hold off on sex so their union may be blessed. God created us, He would know us better than we know ourselves, including what we THINK we need.
Korovi says
BTW, I am a woman.
Sally says
I agree with Evan’s take on this. She may have asked for guidance from her clergy, but I don’t recall seeing it in her letter. She asked for advice from a dating coach how her boyfriend might react. She got an honest straight forward answer. Just because it didn’t sound considerate of her new found religious convictions is beside the point. What did you want Evan to say? Good for you Yasmin. Go ahead and confuse the heck out of your boyfriend. No, she doesn’t owe him sex like one poster wrote. But 10 months into a relationship I assume there is love and some commitment. She does owe him some consideration for HIS feelings and wants and needs too.
Ken says
I agree Sally, sometimes its hard to hear the truth. People just want to be told what they want to hear, and realize that she’s dealing with another human being with wants and needs of their own, and not a customizable item that she bought on ebay. God or no God, its never bad to consider the feelings of another person, when she cut off sex because of god, although she didnt come out and say it, that was a class “Its my way or the highway” Situation. The difference? The boyfriend didnt claim that it would make him closer to god..
Sally says
Oops I forgot to write this at the end…. 10 months into a relationship, sex isn’t just sex. It’s intimacy, sharing, some might even say a spiritual connection with the person you are committed to. If her boyfriend feels that way, he has every right to balk at her unilateral decision to remove that aspect of their relationship.
Katherine says
I agree with Evan 100% as well – this is about consistency. Re-read her post – She didn’t say she confessed her sins and swore herself to celibacy, but even if she did rethink her faith – then that alone is something that can drive a wedge in a marriage bound relationship. This has nothing to do with sex, but with her possible tendency to change like the wind, and change the rules mid-game. Not someone I would call stable or self-aware, and in fact might even be manipulative. (sex-carrot dangling) BTW -marriage doesn’t guarantee sex, either! That carrot can keep on moving. This guy just might run, and have good reason that has nothing to do with sex specifically.
Diana says
Yasmin, do I feel that you have taken it too far? No, because the best one can ever do is follow what feels right to them. But it’s also not fair to your boyfriend to introduce such a change in your relationship and expect him to freely get on board with you. This life heart decision that you are making will give him pause to do the same, and that is to be respected, too.
Are you willing to accept the risk that you may lose your boyfriend for waiting until marriage to be intimate again, in order to support your new belief? Are you willing to accept the risk that if you decide to continue to behave in a way that does not feel right to you that your relationship may wither on the vine regardless, due to tension, resentment, guilt, unhappiness, betraying your values, losing respect for yourself?
My personal belief is that if your boyfriend truly loves you, and believes you are the one, true woman he wants to marry, and depending on how you have presented and discussed this issue with him, he will be willing to wait until marriage.
Only you can determine what you are willing to sacrifice, should it come down to that. Nothing in life is free. Listen to your heart, and very carefully, I might add. An amazing relationship is not something to lightly toss aside, as you know.
Honey says
Whoever said she never said the sex was good clearly missed the part where she explicitly states it’s AMAZING.
And while obviously each partner always gets to determine under what circumstances s/he will/will not have sex, most people reasonably expect that the circumstances under which they’ve been operating over the majority of the relationship will continue. So if you’ve been having sex for a year and then suddenly don’t want to have it any more until you’re married (which is how long in the future…?) that’s a pretty radical change. Similarly, if you used to be really lean and jog 3-5 times a week and suddenly stop and gain 30 lbs., it’s not necessarily shallow or “because you’re fat” that he loses interest, it’s because you stopped being the person he fell in love with.
So just as the boyfriend shouldn’t hold it against her that she wants to be closer to her idea of god, she shouldn’t hold it against him if he wants to leave her because that’s incompatible with his value system and his understanding of their relationship. Question, though – if he leaves her over this, and she starts dating someone else, is she not going to have sex until she gets married, or would she do the same thing all over again? Her answer to that question would tell us a LOT…
Sophie says
I agree with Evan wholeheartedly and actually really enjoyed the ‘car privileges’ analogy.
If the poster has been having sex with her boyfriend for 10 months, I do think it’s a lot to ask of him to just turn to celibacy until they get married. Like someone else said, she hasn’t even mentioned if they’ve talked about marriage yet or if a proposal is even close. Who knows how long it will be before a marriage even takes place?
It’s great that she’s decided to be more religious and closer to God, but that’s a choice she made and now she’s asking her boyfriend to support her choice for reasons he may or may not agree with. If he’s not religious, I can still see how he may respect her choice, but even then, if he doesn’t agree with it then the lack of sex might be a deal breaker.
Sharia says
I know several men who would respect Yasmin for her decision and would see her as a better partner for it. Perhaps her boyfriend is one of them. We don’t know anything about him, so let’s not assume that he’s only with her for sex–if they have enough intimacy to have sex, then perhaps they have enough intimacy to not have sex if the circumstances are not appropriate for one of them at this time. Being able to abstain and remain faithful is a sign of true intimacy and commitment.
Ken says
I love your attitude. NOt all men are sex crazed lunatics. Some of us actually enjoy loving one woman for the rest of our lives:)
Jennifer says
@Sally #13
fwiw, I can’t see myself staying in a sexless relationship until marriage and if I were the boyfriend I’d be royally pissed.
But it’s not just what you say, it’s how you say it. Evan made some good points, but she may not get it because he came off as so dismissive.
She may focus on the ‘you’re stupid for the revelation you had’ part rather than the ‘you are being unfair to your boyfriend by assuming he should go along with a change in the rules of engagement at this stage’ part. To help the letter writer, she’s got to be able to hear the advice, and a lot of sarcasm can get in the way of that.
Paul says
Evan see’s it the way he does because he is not a man of God. The fact of the matter is God is extremely clear on this sunject…no sex before marriage. Weather you want to follow it is your own business, but it is very clear, and for some very sound reasons. Yasmin has every right to stop having sex with her partner, and yes it will lead her getting closer to God and I applaud her for that very mature decision. But Yasmin, don’t expect much agreement from this crowd – made up of mostly liberals – but rest assured that if you decide on this for your life, you will not only be closer to God, but your obedience WILL be rewarded…it always is. You will be blessed, and your marriage will be blessed, and if your boyfriend isn’t on board with it, dump him like a hot rock (no pun intended). He is obviously not a man of God and if you marry him, you will be unequally yoked and that is trouble. And oh, by the way, if you don’t sleep with the man you are going to marry (and who can’t wait a year or so for a whole lifetime of God sanctioned sex – after all, he’s the one who invented it!), then don’t buy into the argument that you have to test drive the other person in bed to see if you two work well together in the bedroom…if you follow Gods plan and don’t ever have sex, your sex life will be blessed after marriage. Have faith. He know’s how difficult it is and you will be blessed and highly favored if you follow His grand design.
Ken says
I like this 🙂 Very positive. Remember no one is a bad person for not choosing god. God loves all his children, without the strong had of their savior, and with the savior. People are people. If we didnt have sex? God wouldnt have children on this earth, remember paul. We dont pop up out of holes in the ground. God gave us love. God Gave us sex (On earth) So that it will be in heaven 🙂
Holly says
This post misses the point about MARRIAGE being the prerequisite for sex and babies. God designed sex to be between a man and a woman in marriage only. He did not design it so that people would just jump each other’s bones like rabbits because they’re “in loooove” (for about the twelfth time). And while it’s true that God loves us all, we do not honor Him by continuing to knowingly sin against Him without repenting. He desires that we be most concerned first with our relationship with Him, not with the worldly human relationships we share with others.
Evan Marc Katz says
Oh, spare us.
Mark Ribbands says
Indeed so, Holly. Look only to the Bible (the true Word of God) for your sexual morality: Judges 19:22-29.
(Although maybe I’m just jealous because I’m not Egyptian: Ezekiel 23:19-20)
InaccessibleRail says
@ Paul, 21:
I hate the way that people assume liberals are Godless and immoral. There IS a religious left in this country. We may be small in number, but we DO exist. Being a conservative does not make you a good person–I could fill a book with examples illustrating this. If Jesus came back today, I think he would be just as displeased with the conservatives as the liberals.
Romans 3:23 makes no mention of politics.
Peter 51 says
Jesus was a liberal. That’s the point. Love thy neighbour as thyself.
Sally says
Judgemental much, Paul?
Sally says
Oh, I am a conservative, by the way.
Jared Meyer says
I believe it’s difficult to give specific advice about things related to religion when both parties don’t share identical values and beliefs. Evan, what would you have written had she mentioned that her God TOLD her that she should refrain from physical intimacy in 2010? Would you have answered her questions in the same tone? Would you have used logic?
Sure, your response could have been more diplomatic, compassionate and generalized like, “Whatever personal preferences/activities/contributions you withhold in your relationship (cause), are you prepared and willing to accept the possible consequences (effect)?” Not much controversy there, huh. You certainly spiced things up!
I know little about the multiple religions and over 30,000 gods that have been documented, but I bet those who believe in the God of their choice do so based on emotions (love, fear, etc.) and not logic.
Offering logical advice to someone who has a emotional relationship with their God is like offering a vegan a turkey sandwich. Love can’t be logical, can it?
Tori says
Thank you, Jared Meyer, for your point: “over 30,000 gods that have been documented, those who believe in the God of their choice do so based on emotions, not logic.” Evan is contained in his own little American world with such constricted perspective. I’m sorry. But here in Asia, God takes different forms. I’m Catholic, but have worked with grassroots indigenous communities who call God in names different from mine. And they do have their own beliefs, own rituals, many of which involve butchering animals for abundant harvest. They say it is also part of being closer to God. And who am I to say or ask, “What does ‘closer to God’ mean?”… I have no right to question their love for their God, which motivates their actions. But it seems Evan only thinks that there is one type of personal relationship with God, and that is a logical negotiable one. Sorry but the world and relationships, is more than what you think or have experienced.
Selena says
Perhaps Yasmin would best be able to focus on exploring her relationship with God without the distraction of a relationship with a man – sexual or otherwise. Time spent without the boyfriend on any terms would likely bring clarity as to what is really important to her.
JuJu says
Uh, InaccessibleRail, you had me until the second sentence. :-
Godless != immoral or somehow unethical. And vice versa.
InaccessibleRail says
@27
Never said the two things were equivalent, equal or in any way the same. That’s why I mentioned both–I wanted to make explicit the understanding that the two CAN be separate. (It’s kind of like saying “I’m tired of everyone thinking oranges are tasty and sour.” Some people see both attributes as positive, and some see one as very good and one as very bad. But one certainly does not imply the other!)
I know plenty of atheists who are upstanding human beings, and plenty of people who use the banner of God to advance an agenda based on hate. A lot of Christians like to think that they have the market cornered on being “good people,” but in the end, none of us are perfect, and in many cases the relationship between religiousity and morality (not to even get into the subjectiveness of both) seems spurious at best.
HRGoddess says
If she is that committed to getting “closer to god” by cutting of sex with her boyfriend then she needs to be ready to accept the consequences… good or bad. Whatever will be will be and no advice is going to change that… unless she is just not that committed and using it as a dangling carrot for a marriage proposal.
Adrienne says
Yasmin, I am not sure exactly what kind of a believer you are so I am just going to assume “born again”. You have already committed yourself to a relationship with (I am assuming here again) a non-believer. Sex aside…..does he understand how committed you are to what you believe? Does he believe as you do? If you have children, what faith will you raise them in? Do you want a partner that prays with you? A partner that applies what you believe in in their life too? Looking ahead….you might think about the relationship in the future…..even if he is “ok” with you not having sex with him. Lots of questions to answer and possible problems ahead. Honestly you committed to having sex with him and now backing out….I can understand him questioning it all. If you really want this man, then just go marry the guy and you can have all the sex you want, anytime – anywhere, guilt free.
You gave it a good try in the beginning holding out but you should have kept it up. You confused him and now torturing yourself. Even though I really like Evan and think he has great advice and a good motivator….this really isn’t his bag, like he said. Talk to your pastor or spiritual leader which ever the case may be. Think it over before you make a committment that is meant for life. Wishing you well…I hope God speaks to your heart….you need to listen. 🙂
Jess says
We don’t know Yasmin’s reasons for going ahead with having a sexual relationship for 10 months and just now remembering that she should be more religious. A friend of mine was in a similar situation, the guy proposed to her after only 4 months from meeting her and he promised her marriage within a year. so since she was religious but he wasn’t, he decided to convert to her religion and she still went ahead with sleeping with the guy for months. Now after a year the guy keeps postponing the wedding and he kept his change of religion secret from everyone. The friend of mine decided to stop having sex with him till he makes up his mind on a wedding date.
I totally understand yasmin’s situation and her wish, but we all need to know her boyfriend’s side of the story too.
anette says
@Paul #21
Those “liberals” that you seem to disdain don’t respond to your religions promises of reward/punishment, reward/punishment, reward/punishment. We are more than pavlov’s dogs and trying to manipulate humans by telling them what their reward is going to be if they are ‘good little humans” infantiles humanity as a whole.
Having said that, I am of the mind that if you want to wait for sex before marriage, then this is not a bad thing in and of itself for reasons that have nothing to do with God. Being inconsistant however, is cause for concern.
I doubt your BF’s issue is going to be waiting for sex, if he really loves you. The concern he may have is wether or not you will during your married life together ignore his feelings on this matter and do what you believe is right for yourself and do this again.
Sex is very important to a man in a relationship. Not just because he has a lot of testosterone and sexual tension, but because it is how he feels close to you. Withhold it, deny it beyond a few normal moments of really not being in the mood and you will hurt his feelings, and he will feel lonely.
If you are wanting to do this, then I would make it very clear that this is a one time deal. The only time you will ever do this, is prior to the wedding. But honestly, no matter what you say he is now going to be concerned. What if you decided due to a religious belief, that you needed to not have sex for 2years, because your clergyman decided it was the correct penance for some percieved sin? What if you decided that you were having too much sex and it was keeping you away from God?
Knowing that you can turn your sex life off, at a moments notice regardless of how he feels is something he will now be thinking about. He will struggle to support that for an entire lifetime. You’ll have to find some-way of letting him know this is the only time you will forgo sex for a significant period of time. You can’t just turn sex off like it’s some tiny little part of your relationship.
You also might want to ask yourself, how exactly IS this going to make you closer to God?
Jean says
@Annette,
what I don’t get is your need as a woman to defend men on their sexual desires. Never see men defenig women about their needs and desires.
Cathy Elliss says
Wow – I only scrolled through the first few and all atheists!!!
Well from experience it is possible – and so hard!!! We may be Christian but not dead – of course our desires are there and the struggle between the man we love and God is a tough one – at least it has been for me and others I know.
I suggest living in a different place or at least limit physical proximity – and prayer with fasting does lead to miracles – even in this area!!!
God bless!
Lushka says
Sharia @5:
“Neither did she say that she was doing this for religious reasons she said that she is doing it to get closer to God.”
Since when does doing something to get “closer to god” not count as religious reasons??? Did I just miss the point of religion!!!???
Steve says
Sex positive, Dan Savage reading, atheist here.
Yasmin, if you don’t want to have sex, you don’t have to justify it or your religion to anyone. Your boyfriend, also, is completely justified if he doesn’t want to play along.
A friendly breakup might be a good thing if this new level of religion in your life is permanent. You will want to be with a man who shares your faith.
Your boyfriend will also want to be with a woman who he doesn’t see as being significantly more religious than he is as well as one who isn’t going to unilaterally decide to end his sex life.
Good luck either way.
Steve says
I’m really jealous of the pithy way Marc expresses my opinion better than I do 🙂
Mara says
Good luck with that. As soon as your boyfriend stops grumbling, be worried b/c he’s getting it from somewhere else.
Suzanne says
Oh man. Not the Sex-Outside-Of-Marriage-Is-Immoral thing again. Is this argument ever going to get old? Doesn’t adulthood mean we accept responsibility for making our own difficult moral decisions instead of handing it over to God to set down the rules? Believe it or not, there are sound, moral, spiritual, even religious people who accept that sexual expression between two consenting adults is not a moral issue. It’s a form of affection, and at its highest potential it is an expression of love. End of Story. And marriage is not a moral issue, either! It’s a lifestyle choice, a pact made between two adults which carries with it certain legal obligations, depending on where you live and mostly regarding property, and whatever else the couple chooses to bring to the relationship in hopes of making it last.
Yasmin, what I’m wondering is whether what you’re actually struggling with is whether you’ve made the right decision in a partner? And as a result of that uncertainty, you’re falling back on an old familiar support system, your religious faith, in hopes of it providing a clear, unambigious answer? Or an escape hatch, an easy way out. The problem with that is that intimate relationships are complex and dicey and riddled with ambiguity a lot of the time. In fact, all of life is like that. And regardless of what judgmental fundamentalists of any particular religion would like you to believe, there is no clear, unwavering path for what you “should” do and there are no guarantees in any of it. It’s a crapshoot.
As for the liberal-godless vs. conservative-holier issue: Thank you “Inaccessible Rail – #22” …but I would add that I’m also sick to death of having god-worship equated with being a good human being, because I know some pretty creepy, immoral people who claim religious devotion. Face it, it’s humans, not god, who are responsible for what goes on here on Earth. And I’d rather set my values by my own moral compass and what I know inately or have learned from life experience is the right and wrong way to treat others. It’s called accountability, and it’s got nothing to do with politics or the dogma of any religion. Or whether you have sex now, or after marriage, or after dinner, or never. Enjoy!
starthrower68 says
Yet another example of how we have to be proactive on this sort of thing. This why you need to date someone with the same values and beliefs, be they spiritual, fiancial, familial, etc. If you don’t want to have premarital sex you should be in relationship with someone who shares that view, and you need to know that before getting deeply involved with them. I’m always amazed at the number of people who believe one way about something, then are all of the sudden suprised when their partner doesn’t share that belief. Life doesn’t just happen to us, we are to take charge of it in as much as we can. Communication is a beautiful thing.
starthrower68 says
It happens in reverse, too; I will get a contact from a guy on a dating site that doesn’t pay attention to what I clearly put on my profile, then is suprised when my values don’t line up with his, as if I’m supposed to change.
Jennifer says
Cathy #32- I’m not an atheist.
Cathy Elliss says
Wow – I just got in from being out all day and the conversation is going thick and strong.
A few people are equating getting closer to God as being religious – and for some it is one and the same however to love God and know him means to seek after him and does not necessarily mean to join a group of religious people where they may act all pious by attending services, saying their prayers for everyone to hear but who do practice their own preaching. For many it is about being genuine and choosing to live with integrity ie no double standards. By walking the talk, we can be an example of how life does not have to be so complicated.
Some comments also mention that practicing a religious faith implies not having a great sex life. God created sex as part of the two becoming one in marriage and that is amazing. Song of Songs from the Old Testament has some of the most beautiful images of true love expressed in a physically intimate setting. Gotta love those gazelles 🙂
Ed says
Evan is spot on – Ladies stop pretending that it is ok to use sex as a religious paradox, bargaining chip or battle axe to get what you want from a partner. She wants him to commit to something and this strategy has more fatal flaws than a Union Carbide chemical plant in Bhopol India. He should bring home a prostitute every Thursday night to answer the religious call of the sex drive that God gave him.
Jane says
Yasmin,
You say: He agreed to not have sex, but I feel like he’s just saying it to say it.
Of course he is just saying it. Not many men would prefer it. It, as you can see from the prior posters, quite probably isn’t his choice. If he is willing to comply with your wishes, he is an amazing man. But don’t expect him to change his thinking, feelings or desires too! That is way way too controlling. He right to be who he is and use his god-given mind to make his own choices.
BeenThruTheWars says
Strictly from a pragmatic point of view. When a man stops having sex with a woman he’s been sexual with for a while, it often means he’s losing interest. Yasmin risks her boyfriend interpreting her new edict as a loss of interest and thus moving on.
Steve says
Can we STOP discussing Yasmin and get back to bickering about perceptions of the religious, non-religious, etc?
Shay says
I totally agree with Amelia (#1). They are NOT married. Yasmin DOES NOT OWN the man ANYTHING.
If the man thinks that being with Yasmin is not only about sex, then he will stay. If he thinks being with Yasmin is more than sex, he will leave.
If he respects and accepts Yasmin’s new found belief, he will stay. If not, he will leave.
If the relationship is built on just sex, I can’t imagine what happens when one day Yasmin is not able to have sex anymore. Like she met with an accident, a family tragedy, etc. Would the man be able to stand by her?
I think Yasmin would have to have a good talk with the man to explain what her new belief means to her. If she cuts off sex and the man cuts her off. This man is not a keeper.
DaGrin says
“They are NOT married” is not a reason why Yasmin DOES NOT OWN the man ANYTHING. No woman owes another man her body whether married or not. Sex should be consensual whether married or not. If Yasmin is married and one day feels like she does want to not have sex with her husband for some sort of religious cleanse, then it is advised that she does. If it is not consensual you are telling Yasmin to be raped by her husband because she owes him sex even though she doesn’t want it. As for Yasmin, do as you please with yourself just know that every action has its consequences, we must know within ourselves if our inactions are worth the dissatisfaction we gain or if our actions are worth the consequence.
JuJu says
#46: That’s some faulty logic. 😐
Sally says
Shay, wow. You make it sound like her boyfriend is just some pig after sex and doesn’t care for her at all, which you have NO way of knowing. Yasmin’s letter sounds like she is in a caring relationship, which means probably sex is more than “just sex”, it’s intimacy, which is not so easy to just “cut off”, for either a man or a woman. Jeez, cut the guy some slack! It sounds like he really is trying to understand her!
starthrower68 says
I’m going to reiterate that this is a textbook example of why you date or be in a relationship with someone that has the same values on faith and other core beliefs that you do. Now granted, I remember Evan saying that his wife is Catholic and there are probably things with regard to that which made them compatible that we would not be privy too, but as a general rule of thumb, you’d better have communicated on these issues before you get engaged.
starthrower68 says
@ Ed….wow….just – wow….
dallas dating says
I think when things change, the partner may leave. You accept that, and this is what being true to oneself is all about. Other people have the right to be true to themselves. (Which brings us back to the discussion with Lorianne if she doesn’t want to be married to a guy who has online affairs, she gets to leave.
Selena says
I think you’re right Starthrower. This is rather an opportunity for the guy to determine if he shares, or is willing to share Yasmin’s values. Maybe he is who knows. It’s also his opportunity to see how easily she can change her values if she chooses. For example, say after they have been married for awhile she decides God only approves of sex when it’s strictly for pro-creation. Unless theyare trying for kid #2,3,4 ….no sex because sex simply for pleasure is a sin.
I’d be very wary of continuing a relationship with this woman if I were her boyfriend.
starthrower68 says
If I didn’t understand how a personal relationship with Christ, rather than religious legalism, can change a person’s heart, convictions, behaviors, etc. I’d be wary too. I’m grateful that even though I still miss the mark, my faith is not shallow. I didn’t say perfect, I said not shallow. People even now are willing to go to their death rather than renounce their faith, so it is misguided to assume that abstinance due to a relationship with Christ is nothing nor than an attempt to get a ring and a date. For me, being rejected or being seen as foolish because I resolved to keep sex only in marriage is a small price to pay compared to what some have given.
Holly says
I agree completely with Starthrower. I’m a cradle Catholic but though I went to church every week as a child and attended a Catholic elementary school, I never had any inkling of a personal relationship with God. I knew He loves me as He does all His children, but I just never connected with my faith or with Him. I was away from the church for many years, though I still went on special occasions for family time. I’m now so grateful that I never gave up my virginity in my teens and twenties; I know now that it didn’t happen because God was watching out for me. I had opportunities to have sex but something always held me back, even when I’d get myself into the most compromising situations. He knew I would realize eventually that the right choice is to wait until marriage and He gave me the time I needed to come to that conclusion. I’m truly happier than I’ve ever been, because this proves to me that God does really love me individually, as He does everyone. He created me for a purpose and my greatest wish is to become closer to Him so I can find out what that purpose is. If it’s marriage and kids, that would be wonderful. But if He wants me for something else, that will be okay too. I trust that whatever He desires for me will ultimately be good.
Steve says
@ 49
It reads like Yasmin and her BF started off with similar values, but that she got more religious during the relationship.
Perfectly fine, sometimes people just change in ways that are incompatible with their relationships.
Shalini says
I completely agree with Evan’s advice.. Because one Yasmin asked form advice from a dating coach here so obviously he is supposed to reply from that point of view rather than advising like the clergy! That would be completely wrong.
And since it is a relationship advice and she must have asked this question for that reason i guess if you put yourself into a relationship where your boy friend/girlfriend suddenly decides to do something that concerns you both and not care about your opinion you will see that the other person is basically being selfish!
And i think the car example is a perfect example of how you might feel when you get a privilege and its suddenly revoked! If Yasmin really wanted to dump his boyfriend over this issue i dont think she would be writing here!
Shalini says
And about the religion thing too.. it really beats me people praise god and then do things to make it seem like if you don’t follow the rules he will punish you!! Can you to get close to God by “not having sex before marriage” when you’re passing by someone who needs help because you don’t have the time?
If you believe in God you have to realize its ok not to follow each and every rule as long as you don’t hurt others.
starthrower68 says
I You would probably not get much agreement on that from Christians. While we would believe that God is loving, kind, and expects us to miss it, our salvation isn’t based on what we do but what Jesus already did. So it depends on what religion you subscribe to. God will forgive me for sex out of wedlock; He already has. But as I have grown and continue to grow, I want to increase in obedience and wait, per His word. I’m not being critical of your beliefs, merely explaining how one differs from another. 😉
Lydia says
I fully agree with your response to her, Evan. If she truly was a religious, spiritual person, I think that is something she would have brought up with her boyfriend in the beginning and would not have started having sex if she felt it would be a sin in the eyes of her religion.
Basically what she’s saying by waiting 2 months, then having sex with a boyfriend for several months without being married, is that she would do that again with a new boyfriend. It’s not really something you strongly believe if you only follow when it’s convenient for you.
If there are not currently plans for a wedding (or even if there are), cutting him off now will either make him want to leave, or get married just to get sex again. That’s not why I would want a guy to marry me.
bob says
@ Shay #46
Wow. Actually, she owes him exactly what they negotiated in the relationship. She did negotiate the relationship in a certain form – and he’s not wrong to walk away if she changes it without re-negotiating (regardless of what she changes – if it’s unilateral it’s a problem). And he’s not a lesser man for it. Actually, I’d think less of him for staying with someone who feels they can substantially change the form of their relationship without discussion.
How would she feel if he said “I’ve decided to quit working and live off your income, and you have no say in it.”? That would be a unilateral decision on his part, without discussing it with her. She’d be in her right to end the relationship.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here:
“If the man thinks that being with Yasmin is not only about sex, then he will stay. If he thinks being with Yasmin is more than sex, he will leave.”
Both of those statements sound equivalent to me.
How’s this: Yasmin has re-discovered something very important to her. It will have tremendous impact on her relationship, it may even end it. She has to make a value judgment, is this new thing of more value to her than her current beau? If so, then she’ll have to accept that it may require losing him.
If she’s accepted this value, then there’s no problem – all she needs to do is say “Honey, I have a dilemma. I’ve rediscovered how important celibacy is to me and my beliefs, and don’t feel I can continue acting contrary to those beliefs.” This will start the conversation, and he may choose to leave, and that’s fine. All it means is he isn’t the guy for who she’s become, and she’s not the gal for him.
But to denigrate him because he chooses to leave is very wrong. His leaving only means people change, and sometimes they change enough to no longer be compatible.
Karl R says
I’ve been surprised by several of the irrational views on both sides of this issue. A couple comments (not from this blog) shaped my response to this topic.
My girlfriend’s initial response to this topic was: “Having sex with you makes me feel closer to God.” In this she echoed part of Sally’s opinion. (#14)
But the more important comment was from my yoga instructor: “When a pickpocket looks at a saint, all he sees are pockets.” Most of these comments tell us something about the people who made them.
Amelia (#1) and Shay (#46) said (paraphrased):
“She doesn’t owe him sex.”
That’s absolutely true. Yasmin’s boyfriend doesn’t owe her a relationship either. “Owe” is an irrelevant concept when building a relationship.
I do things for my girlfriend which will make her happy. I do things that will help strengthen our relationship. I do things which will make her life easier. And she does the same for me.
Shay said: (#46)
“I can’t imagine what happens when one day Yasmin is not able to have sex anymore.”
Shay imlied that this situation predicts what would happen if Yasmin could not have sex. In doing so, she ignores the difference between “can not” and “will not.”
Let’s say that your spouse can not contribute to his or her portion of the household chores. (Perhaps he or she has military service overseas.) You would accept that as part of life (even though you might not be happy about the situation).
On the other hand, let’s say your spouse would not do any chores. You might not find that acceptable in a relationship between equals.
I wouldn’t be able to stay in a relationship with someone who sees no distinction between those two situations.
Yasmin said: (original post)
“It seems like he can’t sacrifice sex for the man above or for me,”
What is the difference between a romance and a platonic friendship?
If you were to take my best romantic relationships and remove all the physical intimacy from them, they would look nearly identical to my closest friendships. Doing so would be the equivalent of, “Let’s just be friends.” How would you expect someone to react to that?
You didn’t go to that extreme, but you took a significant step in that direction. Do you want your boyfriend to be unconcerned when his romantic relationship (with you) takes such a substantial hit?
starthrower68 said: (#49)
“this is a textbook example of why you date or be in a relationship with someone that has the same values on faith and other core beliefs that you do.”
This statement isn’t irrational, but I disagree with it. Both partners need to accept and respect any differences in values, but differences do not need to be an obstacle in a relationship.
For example: I tithe. My girlfriend’s giving is far more modest. Neither one of us sees any need to change the other. And when our finances become more entwined, we will probably keep a portion of our incomes separate so we can accommodate our differences without friction.
But I agree with starthrower68 that “you’d better have communicated on these issues…”
But the one that blew me was Ed (#42), who apparently sees relationships as a conflict or competition where escalating tit-for-tat behavior is acceptable and appropriate.
Can you imagine being in a relationship with someone who behaved that way? Wow.
starthrower68 says
Karl, I only have 1 rather small quibble with your assertion: that your wife tithes more modestly is, to me, a negligible difference in comparison. She still has a heart to tithe. I tithe 10% and give offerings. I’m not likely to take issue with someone who gives more or less. These two may not be on the same page about the existence of God, let alone pre-marital sex. Maybe he will do this for her, maybe he will not. I agree that she is not obligated to have sex and he is not obligated to remain in relationship because they both have God-given free will.
Lushka says
Shalini@54 and 55
Agreed! Can Yasmin not take up helping the homeless to get closer to god!? God would be pleased AND you she would actually be doing some good on earth! You please your god and make your fellow human beings happier – surely a superior option all round!?
Shalini says
Thanks. 🙂
i really feel people don’t seem to understand the concept of god fomr their heart. They just cram the rules!! Evan is right that god is all-forgiving. Don’t make him seem like an authoritarian!!!
Let me give you an example.. In India people go to Ganga river for a bath because its believed to purify you of your sins. While its ok to go there to feel closer to god you can not think its ok to go kill someone and have a bath in Ganga!
So you can be closer to God by actually doing something helpful rather than doing something that you should be considering your boyfriends opinion about. I don’t think god will be pleased by any selfish act done even to please him.
Its not just about sex here.. its about the boyfriend feeling that Yasmin might do what she feels is right for her after marriage without considering how it concerns him. Relationships are not just about you its about both the people.
Shalini says
#58 Karl R
That’s absolutely true. Yasmin’s boyfriend doesn’t owe her a relationship either. Owe is an irrelevant concept when building a relationship.
I do things for my girlfriend which will make her happy. I do things that will help strengthen our relationship. I do things which will make her life easier. And she does the same for me.
Amelia (#1)and Shay (#46)
I completely agree to this. No relationship is about what you owe to others. Is this what you think when in every friendship and relationship? You dont owe anyone anything, does that mean you dont consider people’s feelings? Even my parents didn’t owe me what they did for me!! They did everything for me because they love and care for me.
anette says
I like all you say Karl, except the faith thing.
I wouldn’t say you have to have “exactly” the same values, but they do need to be similar. I broke up with a man who wanted to marry me and have children with me, the same thing I wanted, because I went to his church(I’m an athiest) and saw what he believed with my own eye’s.
I thought his faith wouldn’t bother me. I realized, that I could never live with it and never raise my children in that environment.
So yeah, it’s a big deal 🙂
Steve says
From # 58
That’s absolutely true. Yasmin’s boyfriend doesn’t owe her a relationship either. Owe is an irrelevant concept when building a relationship.
What he wrote…..
Steve says
The quote I meant to post:
She doesn’t owe him sex.
That’s absolutely true. Yasmin’s boyfriend doesn’t owe her a relationship either. Owe is an irrelevant concept when building a relationship.
Sharia says
Honey @ 17: I took her comment “it’s been amazing” to be about the relationship, not about the sex, because she opened with talk about the relationship. She then mentioned waiting for sex within the context of the relationship. But safe to say that the antecedent to “it” isn’t quite clear in the sentence “it’s been amazing.”
Lushka@33: I think someone else addressed this–there are lots of people who believe in God and want to get closer to God but do not participate in formal religious worship. Spiritual pursuit versus religious pursuit. Religious pursuits are all spiritual, but not all spiritual pursuits are religious.
Karl R says
anette said: (#62)
“I wouldn’t say you have to have ‘exactly’ the same values, but they do need to be similar.”
James Carville and Mary Matalin have been married since 1993. Try to find a video clip where they appear on the same panel discussing politics, so you can see how their political views are polar opposites.
“I broke up with a man who wanted to marry me and have children with me, the same thing I wanted, because I went to his church (I’m an athiest) and saw what he believed with my own eyes.”
It sounds to me like you were unable to accept or respect how different his values were from yours. I would say that reinforces my comment on the topic.
Since you were unable to accept or respect those differences, I would agree that you did the right thing by breaking up with him.
Bee says
I agree, Karl. I know several interfaith couples married for many years. My paents and grandparents, both couples married for 30+ years, are Agnostic/Christian couplings.
It does work, but only if both parties respect one another’s beliefs and do not force their beliefs on their partner.
JuJu says
Religious pursuits are all spiritual, but not all spiritual pursuits are religious.
Neither are all religious pursuits spiritual. Too many people get bogged down in observing various rituals, believing that that alone makes them righteous, and losing sight of the primary goal – personal/spiritual development.
Shay says
Bob (#57),
I don’t mean to say that that guy is a pig or a bad person. I’m just saying exactly what you are saying, in a more straight forward manner.
Its totally up to the guy to re-evaluate the relationship with Yasmin. If he cannot accept that Yasmin has changed and how her new found beliefs has affected their relationship, then he has the right to leave.
Surely people grow and change. I agree with what some of the people say here. They might have grown to become incompatible.
Anyway, I can’t agree that once you have given the man privileges, you can’t take them away. Would Yasmin want to carry on sex with this guy to keep him in the relationship and be troubled on her own? If Yasmin were to continue having sex with this guy despite her current beliefs, would she be truly happy? Isn’t happiness what we’re all looking for in relationships?
I don’t see that this is the way to go. Sooner or later, there would be other problems coming along.
Joe says
Shalini said in #60:
So you can be closer to God by actually doing something helpful rather than doing something that you should be considering your boyfriends opinion about. I don’t think god will be pleased by any selfish act done even to please him.
If Sharia is correct about Yasmin being Muslim, she ought to be helping others, if she’s being really religious, as alms-giving is one of the Five Pillars of Islam.
anette says
Karl R #66
You are right. I could not respect the beliefs at all. And yes it was the right thing no matter how much he told me he could accept my views. He couldn’t. Nor could I accept his. I just didn’t have “faith” that God would make us agree one day(like he believed). He would never stop trying to convert me.. That is not respect.
We can create examples(as you have done) of “opposites attract” but I think you will find their values are similar. For example, I can respect a persons view that is different than mine, if they have drawn a conclusion(even if different from mine) through a similar thought process, or similar princples. Two people can have access to the same information and draw a different conclusion.
Religion is a big one in this area, so it requires a great deal of thinking, (not faith it will just all work out), to determine if you can handle the religious difference.
Maya says
Really, it comes down to the guy and I would bet 98% of men would not be willing to go without sex after you were giving it to him for 10 months! You are a tease! The religion part is a whole nother story.
Sharia says
@71: A tease? Really? This whole idea that a guy is “owed” sex is very disturbing and that men call all the shots when it comes to physical intimacy–that we have to put out or get dumped–is the most disturbing thing. That this idea is coming from some of the women is really shocking. I guess you don’t really believe that your body is your own, do you? How do you expect to have a good relationship if you are not at choice over when/where/how/with whom you have sex? I feel very bad for you if you cannot set limits for yourself around sex.
No wonder men feel so entitled! Blame yourselves if you don’t like the way guys treat you or women in general, then.
That you don’t like her reasons for not having sex anymore is irrelevant. It’s her choice, for whatever reason.
Sharia says
Ladies, do you want to be in relationships with men where sex is his prerogative and you cannot refuse? Wake up–you do not have to have sex unless you want to. Certainly not ever in a dating situation. But it was not too long ago that you could not refuse your husband for any reason. Here is some interesting info on spousal rape from Wikipedia:
“In many countries it is not clear if spousal rape may or may not be prosecuted under ordinary rape laws. Sweden outlawed spousal rape in 1965, but other countries from the Western World outlawed it much later, mostly in the 1980s and 1990s. In the US spousal rape is illegal in all 50 states; the first state to outlaw it was South Dakota in 1975, and the last North Carolina in 1993. Other developing countries have outlawed it in the 2000s.
In many countries, spousal rape is either legal, or illegal but widely tolerated and accepted as a husband’s prerogative. In 1999, the World Health Organization conducted a study on violence against women in Tajikistan, surveying 900 women above the age of fourteen in three districts of the country and found that 47% of married women reported having been forced to have sex by their husband. In Turkey 35.6% of women have experienced marital rape sometimes and 16.3% often.”
Don’t you find it shocking that a husband could legally rape his wife in the U.S. until 1993? That means she could not say no if they were married. Think about what that means for your own family and how that has affected you and your view of what consent is.
Shocking. Wake up.
Evan Marc Katz says
@Sharia:
The OP wanted to know if it was fair to cut sex off from her boyfriend. I told her it was fine, except the consequence would probably be that she lost him. All this stuff about spousal rape couldn’t be farther from the original point. Just because you turned the OP’s letter into something about men being “owed” sex doesn’t mean that it’s what the email was actually about. So, please, calm down, since you’re the only one here who seems to be agitated. Honestly. There’s no need to insult me, Karl, or anyone who disagrees with you. We’re not calling names. You are.
Dissent all you want, but please, do it with respect.
Thank you very much.
The Management
Karl R says
Sharia said: (#72)
“This whole idea that a guy is ‘owed’ sex is very disturbing and that men call all the shots when it comes to physical intimacy that we have to put out or get dumped is the most disturbing thing.”
You make it sound like sex is some kind of punishment for women. Most women don’t feel that way. My current girlfriend prefers to have sex 3 or 4 times per week. My previous girlfriend complains that her current boyfriend doesn’t spend the night and have sex frequently enough (and she broke up with him once over that).
I like women who take the initiative with physical intimacy. There’s no reason that should always the man’s role. If you want to call the shots, call your boyfriend, tell him that you want him to come over tonight. When he gets to your place, lead him directly to the bedroom, take off his clothes, tell him to lie on the bed, get on top, and initiate the physical intimacy. You’ll be an empowered woman calling the shots.
This doesn’t work so well if the only shot you want to call is “No sex.”
If you don’t like sex, why would you want to be in an intimate relationship?
Sharia said: (#72)
“How do you expect to have a good relationship if you are not at choice over when/where/how/with whom you have sex?”
This statement reminds me of my first two serious relationships.
My first serious girlfriend decided that her decision of “with whom” she had sex included her ex-boyfriend. That decision torpedoed the trust I had in her.
My second serious girlfriend did call the shots on “when/where/how” we had sex.
where: her apartment (that was fine)
when: twice a month (not so good)
how: with as little effort from her as possible (disappointing)
After two months, I decided we worked much better as platonic friends then as a couple.
In a good relationship, you’re equal partners. That means both people get a say in the physical intimacy. If only one person is getting their way, then the partnership isn’t equal, the relationship isn’t good, and the other partner ought to leave.
And if you’re in a relationship where one person always wants sex and the other person never does, you’re not compatible as a couple. Do yourself a favor and find someone who matches up better with your preferences.
JuJu says
Shay, # 68: Anyway, I can’t agree that once you have given the man privileges, you can’t take them away.
Well… isn’t this why most relationships end?.. Your partner used to be thoughtful and considerate, but is now careless with your feelings. They used to take care of themselves, but really let themselves go as they got more comfortable. Used to be spontaneous, now is a homebody. The examples can be endless. Yes, it’s precisely the withdrawal of a “privilege” that was initially provided that so often makes us unhappy with the relationship.
Sharia, what if it’s the woman that wants sex, or wants it more often than the man? Does he owe it to her?
Why is it that if a woman is having sex, it must necessarily be happening against her will??
But I agree with Evan: you are just using this forum to pontificate.
Selena says
@Sharia #73
No one has written Yasmin “owes” her boyfriend sex. The point many of us have made, both male and female, is that when Yasmin decided to give up sex in order to “try to get closer to God” she arbitrarily changed the relationship with her boyfriend. And apparantly he isn’t too thrilled with the new parameters.
It’s not about “owing” and it certainly isn’t about rape – it’s about how realistic it is to expect someone to change their values to accomodate you just because you changed your own. Pretty simple – why are you having such a hard time getting it?
Jonsi says
@Sharia #72: “This whole idea that a guy is owed sex is very disturbing and that men call all the shots when it comes to physical intimacy that we have to put out or get dumped is the most disturbing thing.”
A woman does not owe me sex. However, I don’t owe her emotional intimacy, or a relationship at all, even if I love her. The attitude “if he’s a good man, and if he loves her, he will respect her decision and comply” is disturbing. It implies that a man who drops her is somehow less of a good man, or does not value her. Neither of those things are true. It is true, however, that he might not respect her. Why is it that with religion someone can say “I won’t wash my hair, eat meat, or dial cordless phones on Sunday” and the other person is somehow obligated — if he wants to come off as a good person — to say “I respect that” just because religion is invoked?
Like the guy on the wire: shiiiiittttttt.
She should be prepared for the consequences of her action, which may include a breakup, because while it would be nice if he respected her, there is no reason he should respect her. “Thou shalt not break up with me if thou art a good, spiritual man” is bogus. Frankly, it’s manipulative.
anette says
Lol Poor Sharia!!
I have felt the same way you have. I was “horrified” at the thought that I owed a guy sex. I would have reacted exactly as you have with as much anger, including bringing up the entire “law” issue which required women to have sex inside a marriage. Nothing could make you feel more invisible as a woman, to be used as a hunk of flesh, with no rights at all. Believe me, most men DO NOT WANT THIS!! They never did.
What we want and need most is intimacy. For men, that is primarily achieved through sex. You know that feeling you get when you share your intimate feelings verbally and feel SO close to a man?It gives you that warm fuzzy, loving natural high? That’s how he feels, when he is physically intimate with you. He just feels bloody great!! He does not want to have sex with a woman he loves JUST because he has a lot of testosterone and a high sex drive.
The problem historically is that men(though the law) were getting their male needs fullfilled, and women were sometimes not. This also came at the expense of women, IE so he could feel close to you, you spent your entire life pregnant. And when women needed more(IE, talking, sharing, respect for their opinions, joint decision making, no more pregnancy) this was ignored. It was horrible and is still happening to women around the world.
But in some countries, we have equality. Males and females crave intimacy from each other. For men, it is often physical, for females it is verbal. If you can find your “match’ then the male, will love the emotional and verbal intimacy you can provide and the woman will love the physical intimacy he can provide.
So I will never “owe” a man Sex. But if I’m reading a really great book and might perhaps prefer to continue , but he’s had a hard day and just wants to feel close to me, I’ll put the book down, take him to bed, show him I love him and enjoy myself. I am under no illusions, that as a woman it is highly likely he will want more physical activity than me. It is highly likely I will require more talking than him.
When you love some-one, you understand their needs, and make as much effort as possible to fullfill them. Choosing to fullfill your partners physical needs isn’t you being a piece of meat, anymore than he is a teddy bear with a set of ears there to listen to you.
A lot of us Sharia, have let go of the bitterness of the past. The terrible treatment of females. Believe it or not, men were often treated worse, not better than women.
We don’t owe a man sex. But if we are in a relationship, we do owe it to each other and the relationship effort in the areas that are important to us.
Having said all that, the inconsistancy of the OP’s decision is what most people are actually focussing on here, rather than the actual sex. I do understand where you are coming from and I hope that you can learn to trust men again and move forward without fear of the past.
All the best 🙂
Helen says
I reread both Yasmin’s original letter and Evan’s reply. Evan, how did you even manage to come up with a response to this letter??? Her action is completely irrational – because what humans have made of religion is almost always completely irrational.
Why would a good God give two sh*ts about who has sex with whom and when? How trite is that, compared with being generous to the poor, helping those in need, being a good steward of monetary and environmental resources, and being kind when at all possible. And yet, many world religions focus much more on controlling sex than about being kind and helping others. Amazing when you think about it.
Evan and others, you can be as logical and rational as possible in your responses and arguments, but what good would that do for someone who is illogical? THAT is why I feel for both Yasmin and her boyfriend… one would wish that people are always swayed by logic, but that is not so.
Michael says
If she wants to keep her boyfriend, she should marry him.
If he does not want to be married, then there is no point in continuing the relationship.
Lisa says
Okay, I’m a Christian… just putting that out there right now.
However, I’m one who has always taken issue with hypocritical behavior I see among religious (whether Christian or not) folk.
Being that I’m around a lot of Christians, I see the type of behavior that Yasmin is describing a lot. Couples start out having sex, then one person (usually the woman), has a great “awakening,” decides that she and her boyfriend are sinning by having sex before marriage and she tells him that because she needs to be following “God’s will,” there will be no more sex before marriage.
The boyfriend is usually upset by this. He often leaves. The woman is then bolstered by her female friends who pat her on the back and congratulate her for her decision and demonize the man because he “chose sex over God,” or “interfered” in her Christian walk.
Meanwhile, I’m thinking to myself, if you truly believed in no sex before marriage, then why did you start in the first place?
To me, that’s the biggest issue in these types of situations. I assume that most of these women grew up in a faith that said no sex before marriage. Fine. But, because we’re all human and naturally desire sex, most of us violate that doctrine anyway and start having sex.
Fine.
But then, don’t turn around after YEARS and suddenly “realize” that you are “sinning” and “displeasing God” by having sex and then demonizing the man you’re with because he wants to continue… because you originally set the standard that this was going to be a sexual relationship. It IS bait-and-switch, and I would like for religious women to not play this “pick-and-choose” game as to what laws they would like to follow and which ones they want to ignore.
Either establish no-sex-before-marriage from the beginning (as your religion stated) or have a sexual relationship and keep it that way. If sin is sin by religious definition, I don’t think God gives you brownie points because you stopped having sex at 10 months, when according to your religion, you shouldn’t have been having it at all.
I just ask for consistency. Either you’re in a sexual relationship from the beginning, or you’re not in a sexual relationship. That needs to be determined at the start.
starthrower68 says
That’s an interesting take. Because, as it is written, “we are transformed from glory to glory”. Meaning reaching spiritual maturity is a process, not a cut and dried timeline. So if a woman is in the middle of her journey, and believers are until we die, does she walk in disobedience to what she believes God’s word is telling her? God is merciful and patient, but is that a get out of jail free card? Jesus told the prostitute (and no, I’m not calling women who have sex outside of marriage prostitutes) to go and sin no more. Should she have ignored his instruction? I doubt she could have because the encounter changed her life. People who experience a deep, authentic spiritual conversion will be more concerned about walking in obedience to God than pleasing the world. And they won’t care if the world hates them for it. 😊
Honey says
As an atheist who has a higher sex drive than her boyfriend, the turn this conversation has taken is completely mind-boggling to me. Rape? “Owe”? Really?
Sharia says
How often do women have sex that they don’t want just to keep their boyfriends, husbands, lovers? This is a huge problem for many women. Maybe you do not know women like this, but I do. I thought this blog was about real relationships and sex, not about discussing fantasy scenarios where all is like a movie– the men are all charming gentlemen, women have org*sms at the merest touch, and everyone lives in gorgeous apartments without any visible means of income. In that world, yeah. I’d be up for it all the time, too, and would be happy not to have to deal with the messy realities of jerky dominant male behavior, clueless lovers, and working hard to take care of me and my SOs.
But in the real world, where so many men are players (competitive) and feel entitled (or aspire to be) and sex with women is the prize for winning the game, the badge of entitlement, chances are that a guy’s interest in a woman is not about his great appreciation for her mind, spirit, and emotions. So a woman has to look out for herself and her own interests–if they jibe with his, so much the better. But when they don’t–be prepared to get the cajoling, the whining, or the attacks (how men behave in their competetive world when they don’t get what they want).
The poster does not want to have sex with her boyfriend anymore and so she should not. There will be consequences to this decision. So what. She does not want to continue to have sex with him. Is that not clear?
If a man leaves an intimate relationship because the woman does not want to have sex–one day, on consecutive days, for a stretch of time–then his primary interest is in sex and not in the intimacy with the woman. All people express intimacy in many ways–there is not one way that men express it and another way for women. And the sexual patterns of most long-term sexual relationships change over time, for a variety of reasons on the part of either partner (pregnancy, health issues, emotional issues, problems in the relationship, to name a few.) If a man cannot deal with that from the very beginning then he is not interested in you as a partner except in bed.
No, I would not necessarily leave my partner if he suddenly did not want to sleep with me anymore. But we would talk about the change and come to a mutually agreeable solution. If he stopped making love to me for spiritual reasons (doubtful, but in a hypothetical world) I can imagine staying with him if I had a similar spiritual idea. So no–I don’t have a chain around his genitals or his heart. And he doesn’t have chains around me, either. We respect each other a great deal.
And before you respond, EMK, would you want to date men? Would you want to deal with their demanding and fickle sexual behavior? Don’t you believe it’s your right to do with your body what you want?
catherine says
I am a woman and am experiencing the same scenario with my BF of 1 year. But is the reverse situation in that HE is the one who is experiencing spiritual distress and turmoil over physical interaction.
Karl R says
Sharia said: (#84)
“All people express intimacy in many ways there is not one way that men express it and another way for women.”
I’ll accept that. In my experience, however, some people find some expressions of intimacy more meaningful than others (physical intimacy, intimate conversation, time & effort, thoughtful gifts).
Sharia said: (#84)
“If a man leaves an intimate relationship because the woman does not want to have sex one day, on consecutive days, for a stretch of time then his primary interest is in sex and not in the intimacy with the woman.”
I’m having a hard time reconciling this statement with the previous one. In order for this to be true, the following statement would also need to be true:
“If a woman leaves an intimate relationship because the man does not want to converse one day, on consecutive days, for a stretch of time then her primary interest is in conversation and not in the intimacy with the man.”
See how ridiculous that sounds when I switch the statement to another form of intimacy? It sounds equally ridiculous to me when you suggest that anyone would accept a major reduction in the physical intimacy in a relationship if he was truly “interested in intimacy with the woman.”
If your partner doesn’t feel like talking for a day or so, that might be acceptable. But after an extended period without conversation, you’re going to assume the relationship is broken and act accordingly, despite your feelings for your partner.
Since we (presumably) agree that sex and conversation are both forms of intimacy which are important to a relationship, why would it be reasonable to do without one form of intimacy, but unreasonable to go without a different form of intimacy?
Sharia asked: (#84)
“would you want to date men? Would you want to deal with their demanding and fickle sexual behavior? Don’t you believe it’s your right to do with your body what you want?”
1. If I was sexually attracted to men, I’d date them. The guys I hang out with would be easy to get along with in a LTR.
2. Based on the dictionary definition of “fickle,” Yasmin is the one being fickle. Technically, her boyfriend isn’t being demanding either (based on Yasmin’s description of the situation).
3. Everyone has the right to do what they want with their body. That includes the right to leave a relationship with a fickle partner.
Sharia said: (#84)
“I thought this blog was about real relationships and sex, not about discussing fantasy scenarios where all is like a movie the men are all charming gentlemen, women have org*sms at the merest touch,”
I know that Evan, Honey and I (and countless other readers) have sex on a regular basis. Your comments about sex bear as little resemblance to our relationships as the scenes in movies … perhaps less.
Donna says
As a sometimes reader of this blog, I see where Sharia is coming from. There’s this idea on here that if a woman wants to have a relationship with a man then she has to be pleasing to men, and there is very little on here about women being pleased by men. Actually, I never read anything on here about how men also have to please or “give in” to women, and none of the men on here seem to think that this is necessary for them in relationship. Most of their posts are about how women have to “understand” where they are coming from, even when it’s clear that the woman “gets” where he is coming from–and says, “uh, no way, Jose.” I mean, look at what the male posters wrote about something as simple as putting the seat down.
A culture where women have to “please” men is one step away from a rape culture, in my bood. And it is shocking to me that some states only put anti-rape laws for wives on the books in 1993. How can that have only made it into the social consciousness in 1993? How could that kind of ignorance NOT have stemmed from male entitlement regarding sex in relationship? Get that, and then think about how long it takes for that kind of understanding to trickle down through the general population. Scary. This blog is scary.
Karl R says
Donna said: (#87)
“there is very little on here about women being pleased by men.”
Let me correct that for you.
If the man you’re dating doesn’t please you, dump him. Immediately.
Sooner or later he’ll realize that he needs to start pleasing his girlfriends if he wants his relationships to last.
“I never read anything on here about how men also have to please or ‘give in’ to women, and none of the men on here seem to think that this is necessary for them in relationship.”
Evan talks about the importance of compromise all the time. I’ve talked about it. Mr. Right has talked about it.
I don’t have the ability to change women. If I don’t like something about my girlfriend, I can either learn to accept it -OR- I can work out some sort of compromise -OR- I can leave the relationship.
I don’t want to spend the rest of my life looking for one girlfriend after another. Therefore, it’s in my best interest to accept anything minor and compromise on everything else, unless it’s a genuine dealbreaker issue.
“A culture where women have to ‘please’ men is one step away from a rape culture, in my bood.”
Following that reasoning, a state where the employer has the right to terminate an employee without cause (like where I live) is one step away from being a slave state.
My employer has the right to fire me, but he has no right to force me to work against my will.
Your boyfriend/husband has the right to dump/divorce you, but he has no right to force you to have sex against your will.
If you can’t see a huge difference between being dumped and raped, then you should spend some time discussing the issue with a rape victim.
JuJu says
Isn’t pleasure – the whole point of relationships? Isn’t that why we seek them altogether??
Obviously, if your partner doesn’t think of you enough to please you, that’s not a good or fulfilling relationship.
Karl, you are wasting your time.
sayanta says
Karl, why aren’t you a lawyer?
sayanta says
I just realized in response to Sharia v. Karl, I love my girlfriends but there’s no way in hell I’d date any of them if I were a dude. Yikes!
Karl R says
JuJu,
I’m under no illusions that Sharia or Donna will change their minds based on what I say. However, my opinions have often been influenced by well thought out posts (A-L, Selena, etc.), even when they have been responding to unreasonable people.
sayanta,
I’ve never been driven enough to go through the hell required to earn a J.D., or the hell usually endured by associates at law firms.
But I work for a group of consultants who are hired by lawyers to assist them with cases. The job makes good use of my abilities, and my bosses aren’t concerned about my lack of a degree.
adrian says
Well this is my first time ever reading this blog and this would be the first posting that I read.
To begin, I am a male and have been in a committed relationship with my gf for 1yr and a half years. Surprisingly we have not engaged in intercourse to this day. Before entering out relationship I told her that I would not be having sex until I get married, even after several years of pre-marital sex.many wonder why I all ofa sudden stopped having sex at the ripe age of 24, and it was to have a better relationship with God and the person I dated. In the past I have found that having sex can change the dynamic of the relatioship. Personally, I would only be interested in the relationship for sex. This became the only focus and nothing good came of the relationship. Not to mention, I never really got to know the person I was sleeping with. Now that I have turned this new leaf my relationship with God and my girlfriend has been excellent?
@ yasmin – if you want to have a better relationship with God, continue to put him first. If your bf cannot respect this, why would you continue to date someone who did not share your core values? And NO! You do not owe him anything. If you follow the bible it says to “owe no man anything but to love him”. And love does not necessarily mean sex. IMO if you have relationship advice you should also go to the Lord in prayer, ask for guidance, and seek wise counsel. Hope this helps. Let’s see if it gets posted.(My apologies for any typos, I’m writing from my blackberry)
jason says
My girlfriend just pulled this one on me as well. We waited about 2 months before having sex and have been dating 16 months. We started talking marriage 2 months ago and now she says no sex until marriage. which marriage wont come until 2012 as we have decided.
My stance is 2 years no sex… im 25, what am I supposed to do?? besides cheat on her because that is clearly the only option she leaves for me. Thats to satisfy the urge but also the mental anguish of being shun like this for an old monotheistic religion.
I love her and hope something happens, because right now its probably gonna break us up within a month. I am at 2 weeks with no sex and now i dont want to even touch her or kiss her. resent the thought really.
btw… I used to rub this girls feet every night, cuddle with her, hold her, and more and not expect to have sex.
it just seems like the thought of not being able to has laced a lot of resentment in my heart about her and her religion.
starthrower68 says
If you are resentful of her and her faith, you both might be better served to end things and move on to partners who share your values.
TrulyConfused says
I’m kinda in the same boat, except, I’m a woman and my boyfriend just decided to be celebate after being together and having sex for a year. I’ve always thought of sex as an important part of a relationship. It’s one of the ways we connect. He just made this decision without even consulting me and basically just gave me a choice to take it or leave it. He said he understood how difficult it would be but that this was important to him so he was willing to risk our relationship. I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him so I told him i would try but I don’t know how to do this.
I feel like sex is important in a relationship and he knows that. We have very different religious beliefs but that has never been a problem before. I respect his beliefs and he respects mine. But how am I supposed to put my feelings aside, my frustrations aside, because he made a decision for the both of us? I don’t want to resent him but after a year of having good sex, it’s not fair to stop without even talking to me about it. How can someone make a decision that affects a couple without discussing it first?
Moeen says
Just thought I'd give my two cents here. I think a lot of people are making false equivalences here. Just to cite Karl R above as an example: he says @ Karl R #58 (https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/sex/should-i-stop-having-sex-with-my-boyfriend-until-he-decides-if-he-will-marry-me)
“Yasmin said: (original post)
It seems like he can’t sacrifice sex for the man above or for me,
What is the difference between a romance and a platonic friendship?
If you were to take my best romantic relationships and remove all the physical intimacy from them, they would look nearly identical to my closest friendships. Doing so would be the equivalent of, Let’s just be friends. How would you expect someone to react to that?”
Sex and physical intimacy aren't one and the same (sex is a form of physical intimacy, a high form, but simply that). Couples can spend time cuddling, for example. And you certainly wouldn't “just be friends” in that case.
Karl compares having sex to having a conversation by making the following point @ Karl R #86 (https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/i-want-to-stop-having-sex-with-my-boyfriend-until-we-get-married/2/#comment-60732):
If a woman leaves an intimate relationship because the man does not want to converse one day, on consecutive days, for a stretch of time then her primary interest is in conversation and not in the intimacy with the man.
See how ridiculous that sounds when I switch the statement to another form of intimacy? It sounds equally ridiculous to me when you suggest that anyone would accept a major reduction in the physical intimacy in a relationship if he was truly interested in intimacy with the woman.
Yes, it is ridiculous, but because its a false equivalence. You cant have a relationship, platonic or otherwise, without having a conversation (if you can I'd be _really_ interested to know how). You can have a relationship without sex.
And I think this is really my point, sex should not be equated with the relationship, which is what a lot of people here are doing. Sex is not a need, it's a want. Its not the whole relationship, it's a part of it which both parties should be willing to negotiate (and hopefully do). You might find it very important, but again, those are your feelings.
In the case of Yasmin, the issue is how she negotiated (or didn't) changing the terms of this aspect of the relationship, and you can make very valid arguments that she didn't do it right, but dont turn the argument into romance=sex
And I do agree with some posters here that Karl would make an excellent lawyer.
Karl R says
Moeen said: (#96)
“Sex is not a need, it’s a want.”
There are monastaries filled with monks who have taken vows of silence. Conversation isn't a need either.
“You cant have a relationship, platonic or otherwise, without having a conversation (if you can I’d be _really_ interested to know how).”
Do you really believe that these monks, after spending years living in community together, have not formed relationships with each other?
Heck, people form relationships with their pets. And if there are any conversations within those relationships, they're decidedly one-sided.
“Couples can spend time cuddling, for example. And you certainly wouldn’t 'just be friends' in that case.”
Some people (including me) cuddle with some of their platonic friends. If I get to first base, I would say that I've gone beyond the “platonic friends” level. But there's a lot of physical contact that can occur before that point. (And if you want to bring pets back into the discussion, most people cuddle with their pets … without becoming romanticly involved.)
I agree that sex is not the same as a relationship. It's possible to have sex without having a relationship. But as you said, it's a part of the relationship. And if you eliminate one part of a relationship, that will probably affect the rest of the relationship as well.
Moeen says
Karl R above said:
“There are monastaries filled with monks who have taken vows of silence. Conversation isn\\\\\\\\\\\\ t a need either.
Do you really believe that these monks, after spending years living in community together, have not formed relationships with each other?”
Conversation isn't a need for life, but to relationship it is. I've never heard of silent monks having relationships with each other. Perhaps it's possible; you'd have to ask them (though I guess if they're silent they can't tell you). That's a pretty extreme example though; most people aren't silent monks.
“Heck, people form relationships with their pets. And if there are any conversations within those relationships, they\\\\\\\\\\\\ re decidedly one-sided.
(And if you want to bring pets back into the discussion, most people cuddle with their pets without becoming romanticly involved.)”
Again, false equivalence: if you say something to a person, they can respond, if you say something to an animal, they almost certainly can't (at least not in any substantial way). There's just no comparison.
“Some people (including me) cuddle with some of their platonic friends. If I get to first base, I would say that I\\\\\\\\\\\\ ve gone beyond the \\\\\\\\\\\\ platonic friends\\\\\\\\\\\\ level. But there\\\\\\\\\\\\ s a lot of physical contact that can occur before that point.”
I certainly would not cuddle with a friend the way I would with a girlfriend (maybe you would). Really, the next time you see a couple cuddling closely in a park, tell them that what they're doing is no different from what you'd do in a platonic relationship and see how they respond.
“I agree that sex is not the same as a relationship. It\\\\\\\\\\\\ s possible to have sex without having a relationship. But as you said, it\\\\\\\\\\\\ s a part of the relationship. And if you eliminate one part of a relationship, that will probably affect the rest of the relationship as well.”
Well, at this point I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think you can have a perfectly healthy romance without sex. Of course, if you want to have a family and all that, then at that point sure, but if you're just getting to know if someone's a good fit for you, I don't believe so, and I know of plenty of couples that didn't engage in pre-marital sex and are doing fine. I think this point is really just a matter of personal opinion.
Missy says
I, like #82 (Lisa), am a Christian, and I am wholeheartedly committed to living my life the way that the Bible instructs. I also think about sex like #21 (Paul). With that, for me, premarital sex, or the requirement of it in a relationship, is a deal-breaker for me. But like most people here have stated, I make that perfectly clear from the jump, so that way, if he doesn't agree with that, then we can both move on and find what we're both looking for. Like #93 (adrian), before I became a practicing Christian, I did engage in premarital sex, and never found the closeness and intimacy that I craved. So yes, it is completely possible for one who practices premarital sex to have a change of heart. But for me, my change of heart with that also came with a change of heart to lots of other things. From Yasmin's question, it seems like she just wants to practice celebacy (i.e. "For the new year, I want to get 'closer to God'"…). Now THAT seems a little illogical to impose once you've been having sex for, as she said, 10 months. So I wholeheartedly agree with #49 (starthrower68) that it is IMPERATIVE to find someone with whom you share the same values…that will prevent situations like this. This just sounds like a textbook case of her not doing her relationship homework before she went too far.
Danielle says
I think Evan's advice is really good, his response is far less about sex and far more about communication and consistency. I think after ten months of having sex Yasmin's boyfriend would have the right to be at the very least , surprised by her change of heart. Just as she has the right to decide she doesn't want to have sex anymore, he has the right to decide the relationship isn't working for him either.
I think the unknown boyfriend deserves credit, he has agreed to not have sex with her. However, now Yasmin doesn't like that he seems to just be saying it. I don't know any many or woman who after ten months of amazing sex would be excited about no sex. But I think the fact that the guy has said he won't is a major plus. If he has followed through on his word and his backed this up with his actions, then Yasmin has what she wanted. A no sex relationship with her current boyfriend who is accepting her decision.
Nyghtfalls says
Umm, I'm with Evan on this one. I have to say it irks me to see so many essentialized statements on this forum, as though guys are the only beings hardwired to think that sex is important in a relationship. I'm a female and if my male partner ever said to me that we could no longer have sex because he wants to be closer to God, I would simply reply, "Well, I like to be closer to some d*ck, so I guess I'll see you on the flip side." Cruel, perhaps, but very true. I think someone else here said it best: "this is a typical bait and switch". And it's not about respecting one's religions or choices. I'm sure the boyfriend respects the letter writer's choices just fine… he just doesn't see this fitting in with HIS lifestyle. And he has a right to feel that way. This issue is not about religion or one's right to do with her body as she will. This is about the importance of two people being compatible enough to carry on a relationship. If sex is important to one but not to the other, I think it's best to part ways so that both parties can find partners who share their values. Otherwise, one will always be unhappy… a recipe for disaster.
Jules K says
I just broke up with my boyfriend of a year and half because of my lust. Anytime things went sour I would cheat and he would sex text girls. To most cheating means that you do not love, but we love each other and well during those bad times we loved ourselves too much to be ready for one another. Before we broke up I was ready to be just his, but it was too late, the trust had been broken. We have been broken up for months and I have not so much as kissed another. He has, but that is normal. I have made the choice to keep this up and if ever with him engage in soft petting nothing involving my below privates nor oral. I pray that I will be with him, and want to be sure with myself that is not for lust once again. I believe we all have different ways at going about life and love. There is no right way. If someone feels best in their soul acting in accordance to the scripture after defying it for so long that is great. God will always forgive you if you truly whole heartedly are giving yourself to him.
Karen says
Yasmin, you do not owe this man your body. It is yours to decide how it's used. You have every right to decide not to have sex anymore. There is no "changing rules in the middle of the game." This is not a game. You are the one who is responsible for your actions and your accountability to God. If you want to stop having premarital sex, than I applaud you. It's your RIGHT. If your boyfriend cannot respect that, then leave him. Seriously. It will only hurt for a short while, but you will feel so much better in the end.
JuJu says
Not to be offensive, but I really can’t help but wonder, why do the seriously religious people read this blog? To monitor what’s happening in the secular world or something? I mean, I can’t imagine it actually being applicable to their situation(s).
Karl R says
JuJu, (#104)
Most of the advice is relevant to “seriously religious people”, just like most of Evan’s advice is relevant to men, even when Evan is addressing a woman’s question.
Occasionally, however, there’s going to be a conflict between Evan’s recommendation and what they believe is morally “right”.
Shaza says
what she means by closer to god evan is she is buliding a relationship with GOD. Having a relationship with him requires faith( believing in the unseen). for her to continue her path with god she will feel the need to clean up her life so to speak, so that god can have more influence in her life.
this is exactly what i am deliberating on. in order for me to feel absolutley free to give myself to my boyfriend with no shame no guilt, actually making real love not sex, i need to include god in this as he was the originator of this covenant between man and woman. with his inclusion in marriage, it is blessed and guilt and shame can no longer hold invisible but evident power of any of them..in this context. so she is free to really be. and the only way after that is up. not down. if god is allowed to be the cornerstone of her faith then he will lead her to the right path. if she loses her boyfriend then at least she will not lose too much heart and self destruct, as she has faith taht as long as she is walking with god and allowing him to be her director, she will be able to resist the darkness…by darkness i mean self pity, depression, abuse of substances etc. because those things are very powerful and alot of ppl seem to just put up with things and remaiin in COMBAT MODE rather than actually LIVING. God is the creator of life, Satan is the destroyer. Remember that. He does exist and wants us all to please ourselves to the detriment of ourselves so tht we do self destruct. He does not want us to feely real joy and intimacy in our relationships. God does. He makes sex holy in marriage.
amanda says
Man….my boyfriend and I are both Christians. We’ve been together for 6 months and he suddenly decided to live a better life. No more sex, cussing, or drinking. It was very hard at first but it’s not so bad now. However I gave him an inch and of course when you give an inch they want a mile. Now I’m suppose to develop the same exact beliefs as him. I’m a Christian as much as he is and its been very hard for me. Sometimes people just have a different idea of whats right and wrong. If he doesn’t like it then he should leave because he will never respect her views. If he loves her he will stay. Either way if shes trying to be closer to God then her man comes 2nd. If he causes too much temptation and disrespects that then she is better off with out him. It doesn’t matter what the religion is. If you are serious about getting closer to God you shouldn’t worry about the people in life that will try to prevent that or put you down for it. Just let em go. They should be happy that you are trying to be a better person for you. It might be wrong and hard to change the way you interact with your loved one but you always have to look out for yourself first. Look out for what makes you feel right. Its no different from people that believe that sex is important in the relationship. Just do you.
Sandy says
All I can say is that I applaud you for your new found conviction. I was in the same situation, I was raised believing that sex before marriage is wrong but anyway and after I while I just found that the guilt and shame I felt after the act seemed to completely overshadow the enjoyment. I knew I was sinning and that I had to stop.
My boyfriend at the time accepted my decision but I found that as I was truly finding God and being extremely serious about it, I began to change. I could no longer live the lifestyle I had before because I knew how much it grieved my Lord. I found that the strangest thing began to happen, my boyfriend and I started drifting apart and we became two entirely different people. Whereas before I was addicted to music and partying, my new passion was sharing my growing and exciting relationship with God. He of course could not understand me and although he professed to be a Christian he find my conversation and new interests utterly boring. My feelings for him also completely disappeared as we really had nothing in common anymore.
Do not repress these feelings. There is NOTHING more important than being close to God and living in a way that pleases Him. If you really read the Bible, you will see how much God hates sexual sin, in fact God even mentions that that those that practice it will not see eternal life.
Matthew 8:21 Not everyone who says to me,’Lord Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is heaven.”
So do whatever you must to be close to God and give your boyfriend over to Him. If it does not work out with this guy, God could have someone even better waiting for you, someone who wants to get as close to God just as much as you do.
God Bless!!
Evan Marc Katz says
…and the victor for saying “God” the most times in a single comment is…Sandy! Congratulations! Listen, I have no problem with faith (my wife is Catholic and a believer). I do, however, have a problem with people who cherry-pick certain parts of the Bible to take literally…while ignoring others. God will keep you out of heaven for having sex, but will welcome you with open arms if you keep slaves or stone someone to death. I think I got it now.
Signed,
The guy who is apparently not entering the kingdom of heaven
starthrower68 says
Evan, while you are not a believer and I am, on this point we can agree. You can’t pick and choose with the Bible. And while we might not agree on the timing of when sex should happen, I think one thing we can agree on is that it is a gift which is meant to be enjoyed. We may not agree on what context that should be in, but I don’t think we always have to put the focus on what we disagree on, but find where we do 🙂
Evan Marc Katz says
I think people should have sex when they can handle all of the consequences of it. If a woman needs commitment/exclusivity, that will eliminate some guys. If a woman needs MARRIAGE, it will eliminate almost all of them. I don’t judge anyone. I only offer practical advice who find that their beliefs/actions are not producing the desired results.
Lily says
“If we have been talking to God, why doesn’t God say the same thing to everyone? Why isn’t everybody getting the same message? Everybody isn’t asking the same question. Everybody is not at the same point of understanding. Everybody is not even wanting the same thing. We are all about eternalness which means we are about difference. It is in our difference that desires of all kinds come forth, and as all of these new desires pop up, every one of them, even in their difference, is important.” Straight from the mouth of God.
So Evan is right. Besides I had a bf who did the same thing to me and it was fucking annoying.
Clarina says
In the beginning of any relationship, if you are a so called Christian, the best thing to do is date a man that has the same religious belief as you so you both know that your beliefs involve no sex before marriage. It makes things so much better. If you begin to date a man that does not have the same religious belief and you decide to have sex with him, don’t expect that stopping the sex will make him marry you or make him convert to your belief. You know about God’s word anyway, so why have sex with him and you are not married to him. Sounds like to me you are try to worship God and man.
Joe says
Evan said @ 109
I do, however, have a problem with people who cherry-pick certain parts of the Bible to take literally…
Evan , you got the point. Cherry-picking is wrong biblically and the bible clearly says “Don’t judge unbelievers ; it is not Chritians’ job”. No humans have capability to judge the situation/other humans 100% fair. Only God can do.
Unfortunately many Christians haven’t read the whole bible
AND don’t believe all people when they claim they are a Christian. They might or might not .
(I know because I labeled myself “Christian” for years even though I was just a church-goer.)
We all are capable of giving a lip service.
So how can we tell? Jesus said you can tell good/bad trees by their fruits.
Yes, as someone said before ,”sex before marriage” is a sin( like many other sins in the bible ) but it is not the centre of Chrisitanity. PRIDE/arrogance is.
Unfortunately many Christians are so busy to stay away from one sin but fail to see the whole picture of Christianity. ( I am talking about myself ,too )
I am very sorry for all the arrogant , judgemental and CONFUSING comments made by people who claim they are Christians.
ps> .if you let me define “Christian”———–
First, It is derived from the word “Christ” .
Christians are people who accepted Jesus as their savior and have a relationship with Him
BUT It doesn’t mean they are always succesful to follow Jesus’s teaching but they keep TRYING.
Actually Christians know that we humans are all sinners by God’s standard and therefore can’t enter the kingdom of Heaven by just doing good things by their own will. So they desperately cling to Jesus Christ ,realizing they are far from be perfect and got no reason to be arrogant/proud.
starthrower68 says
Here here Joe! Well said! Christians least of all can afford to be arrogant and proud, as we will be judged more harshly in our sin for professing the faith and then being haughty. I know it has to be hard for the OP to lose her boyfriend because of the choice she made. Can I just say that sometimes, being a believer is pretty tough? The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. And on a human level, I can understand why the boyfriend might feel betrayed and like he had the tables turned on him. There are no easy answers here. It’s not a bed of roses. It is just that we believe there are eternal consequences for what we do while we’re here. But I certainly don’t hate or am not mad at anybody who has sex out of wedlock. I can’t know what’s in their heart or their motivations when they make that decision.
Sara says
I can see everyone’s point of view including Evan’s. I give Evan props for keeping his cool and not feeling defensive to the replies above. However, yes, one does become closer to God if we follow his guidelines; if we agree that what he has planned for us is for our own good. Take time to research the word (AGREE). Consequently, we become closer because we share in conjunction the same beliefs. When blessings AKA (Positive consequences) start coming our way we feel good. Good things come our way because we follow his guidelines. And yes, even none believers may do good and still, good things come their way. When we follow any law given to us, we are automatically favored by it. Whether in our eyes the law is good or bad.
Now: away from religion: What are positive consequences in having sex after marriage: together you come to an agreement of maturity to form a family. Sometimes a contract is necessary for some people to say they’ll stay for a while, lol. What are negative consequences for sex b4 marriage, (A) there is no agreement; therefore, no obligation is necessary, even if she is left pregnant or he was left with an incurable disease. Yes, is Divorce your mediate thought, right now? Completely agree, but let’s be real, “why are divorces so common, now a days?” perhaps because we practice premarital divorce with our boyfriends/ girlfriends by breaking up with them. Perhaps, because we are constantly playing house with someone we are not committed too. But this is a diffident subject.
Now again, away from religion and back to Evan’s scientific point of view, what happens when we have sex? (A) We release hormones/chemicals that trigger the brain. When this occurs, the brain perceives emotion. What is emotion? (A) Emotion is a strong hormone that impacts your life. Some women may release more emotion that men. Our brain starts processing these emotions into thoughts and ideas. If these Ideas flourish in our mind, we feel our partner should desire what we desire. There’s a lot more that covers all of this, just do your research perhaps Evan’s scientific knowledge can add to this.
Now: back to religion: As a believer, you should not only believe that sex b4 marriage is in essence a sin, you should believe in all of who God is. To believe and have faith in who God is, is to come in agreement with him.
Now: away from religion: Sometimes as females we want commitment from our partner; this occurs most of the time after we have already processed our emotions, in other words had sex. We then hope, our male partner feels the same way, perhaps not now, but hopefully in future/sometime, lol. Psychologically speaking most women are taught to wait for the male to propose marriage. And once a female has reached a high level of emotional involvement, she is ready for commitment “marriage” but he may still not be. Further, God becomes the third party to stimulate the wedding plans, in other words we subconsciously use God as our hint to our partner for marriage.
Evelyn says
No one really seems to have considered the fact that SEX always has a chance of PREGNANCY.
When they reached the 2 month mark, these two started having sex. They now know that they are sexually compatible, so (presumably) no further knowledge of each partner is required in this area. They know each other inside out, and can now accurately assess long-term potential.
Since they now have all the information they need, there is no need to continue having sex (and risking pregnancy) until they make the decision to marry and start that family together.
Her boyfriend now has a chance to think: is she the right girl for me? If she is, he will propose, they will marry, and sex will return. If she is not, he will leave her. If he is unsure, he can wait to decide: but he won’t be getting any.
If she waited 2 more years for his decision, and kept having sex, there is a greater risk of eventual single parenthood. This way, she is giving him all the time he needs to decide, while also thinking responsibly of herself and possible offspring.
Also – if this is not the man she is going to marry (due to his lack of commitment), she may be having second thoughts about continuing a sexual relationship with him. It may seem unfaithful to the man she eventually will marry.
luisa says
She can do whatever she wants because she is free. A woman or male can chose when or when not to have sex. If she does not feel comfortable having sex why does she have to do it? to please someone else? Just because you do something in the past, it does not mean that now you have to keep doing it.
She is not a slave and her boyfriend does not own her. For instance, let’s say I think for 2 months if I should join the mafia. After two months I join and kill2 people a month for a year. After that I want to get out because of God, because of my partner, or my son or because I just don’t fell like it any more. Off course, my boss won’t like it. He will say, wow, after a year, now you want to be good? I gave you two months to think about joining us.
I don’t get you guys. Anybody can change at any time. You can say bad words, lie, cheat… but if you want to change your mind you can always do it. Freedom is the base of relationships and love. No one can force you to do something you don’t want and women are not just sexual objects. If he wants to support her he can or cannot. That is his choice. She is being true to herself and she must love herself before she can love someone else.
solange says
I can’t believe the attention this has stirred up!! Truly the OP’S name has been changed to protect HER but she is using his daughter’s name!!!! SMDAMNH…..
I believe that when you make a decision such as this, you go into it together, not, “Oh baby, I decided I’m not having sex with you until we’re married”!!!!! Who’s to say he even wanted to be married to her??? Did SHE choose him, or did he choose her?? A person such as he, is a highly sexual being… “celibacy”, as he told me, is what came out of her mouth… So thanks, for blindsiding him… I could say more, but I want him to read this hot mess.
Chris says
Come on Evan that is not fair. I recently am a born again Christian myself, and in the past I would have said the exact things that you did. You are right people who disregard one part of God’s word to only further their argument really make Christians look like bad people. It says no where in the bible that one will be cast away from heaven for having pre-marital sex. If so I would be screwed. That is why I checked this link out, to see of a way for me and my girlfriend to stop. But please don’t criticize people for trying to be good Christians. No sin is to great to be forgiven, so if I keep having sex, I know God will forgive me, but does that make it right. Compare it to this, and please have an open mind. Imagine a 16 year old who’s parents do not allow him to drink, but he does anyways. When his parents find out, they don’t take him and cut him up with a knife and throw him in the fireplace. But their relationship becomes strained. Distance begins to form. That is what it is like when we sin. I do not at all fear being thrown into the fire. But despite what people think, I truly love God, more than anyone else. You probably find that weird, and I know why (As I said I used to be an atheist). But I want my relationship to be close with him, and sinning makes that hard. That is why I want to stop, not out of fear, but love. If you can’t understand that is ok, but that does not mean you should criticize.
starthrower68 says
@ chris 117, i too am born again but i wouldn’t get too offended at what evan says about it. remember, we can have god’s approval or the world’s approval but we cannot have both. ours is a heart and spirit condition which doesn’t makes sense to folks who don’t share our beliefs. doesn’t make evan a bad guy. i’m taking a bunny trail here, but jesus was hung on the cross for it. but back to the original intent of the discussion, there is always a price to live out our beliefs.
Karl R says
Chris said: (#117)
“I truly love God, more than anyone else. […] But I want my relationship to be close with him, and sinning makes that hard. That is why I want to stop, not out of fear, but love.”
Regardless of your motives, actions have consequences. And the consequence Evan is discussing is the to the relationship between Yasmin and her boyfriend (or you and your girlfriend). If you stop having sex with your girlfriend, it will put strain on your relationship. Distance may begin to form between you.
In your efforts to become closer to God, you may lose your girlfriend.
Chris said: (#117)
“That is why I checked this link out, to see of a way for me and my girlfriend to stop.”
If she also wants to stop, then it will put much less strain on your relationship. If only one of you wants to stop, then the chances of breaking up are much higher.
This is about human nature, not religious beliefs.
starthrower68 says
@ karl 119, i do get where you are coming from and this is not an attempt to convince you otherwise but to explain where born-again types are coming from. for people who do not share our beliefs, it is a human nature. for those of us who are believers, it’s not a religious belief but part of living out our faith. as i said previously, there is a price to pay for that. non-believers think we’re wierd or old-fashioned because we don’t subscribe to the world’s way of doing things. god doesn’t hate sex nor is he up in heaven wringing his hands over people having pre-marital sex. its been happening since there were people. but there also emotional and spiritual consequences. do i believe anyone having pre-marital sex will be cast into hell? no. i think chris laid it out beautifully when he compared god to any loving parent who doesn’t want to see their child get hurt. i know there is very litte acceptance of such views in this day and age. chris may very well lose his girlfriend. i’ve lost out plenty of times. i accept it as the price i pay to be in obedience to god. i trust god to get me through the times of temptation if there are any. i may grow old alone, which i accept. i’m not expecting anyone else to pay that price with me.
Karl R says
starthrower68 said: (#120)
“this is not an attempt to convince you otherwise but to explain where born-again types are coming from.”
With all due respect, my father was a Sunday-school teacher from before I was born until after I left home. (As a regular church attender, you can infer how much time I spent at church.) Since my father was also a college professor, he challenged us to think about what we believed. Since theology is (intrinsically) knowledge, I have pursued it with the same enthusiasm as any other knowledge. I’m certain my theological background dwarfs Chris’s, and it may be on par with yours.
I am not a born-again Christian, but I comprehend where they come from.
starthrower68 said: (#120)
“for those of us who are believers, it’s not a religious belief but part of living out our faith.”
Based on what Chris didn’t say, I have inferred that his girlfriend is not a born-again Christian. Her decision will not be a part of living out the faith of a believer. That was what I was trying to convey.
Partly this is a timing issue. I didn’t see your post (#118) when I started writing mine. If I had, I wouldn’t have responded to Chris, since I thought you conveyed the essence of my message perfectly.
If Chris chooses to follow that belief, there is a likely cost.
As long as Chris understands and accepts that cost, I encourage him to act as he sees best. His girlfriend is unlikely to be happy about no sex if it has been a constant in their relationship. If she’s a non-believer, she’s even less likely to be receptive to heavy-handed conversion efforts.
Furthermore, you’re not Chris. As we both know, there’s nothing like the fervor of the newly-converted. You have held your beliefs for years, if not decades. In comparison to Chris, you probably seem moderate.
In addition, while I do not share your belief structure, I recognize that it’s a belief structure. I don’t oppose it just because it’s different than mine. Therefore, I have dated women who (devoutly) held beliefs far more conservative than mine. And as a human, I find it relatively easy to enter a relationship with the understanding that this woman does not believe in pre-marital sex. It is a vastly different situation to have the rules change in the middle of the game.
It’s hard enough to accept someone as they are. It’s even harder to accept them when they’re no longer who they were.
And that’s where Chris is at.
pogiman says
Some people take the religion too extreme i think. I have been a christian for 12 years now. I am happy of what i do, i import good from china to USA. We all know that Chinese has long paying job and some of them commit suicide because they hate how they live in china but (somehow abuse it) does it make me away from Jesus? No. This is the same thing making love, sex is different from making love i think. I love my woman and yes we made love because i want to be close to her. We made love many times sometimes in a day. Does this make me go to hell. I do not think so. First, I do not intent of hurting my woman, 2nd, i see on marrying her in the future.
Let me tell you a deeper reason why Jesus died on the cross, Everyone says “for us to be free”. It also means that, long time ago when the 10 commandments from GOD through Moses YOU HAVE TO DO ALL THESE 10 COMMANDMENTS TO SEE HEAVEN. but when Jesus died, it also means he is the only way to heaven, believe in him, you do not have to follow all these.
You see I do not like going to churches as I do not trust pastors on how they interpret things, the pastors are just people like us who gets paid by the church from funding of investors and donations. Technically its a profession, its up to them if they wanna be a real follower of God, they can only know this by themselves. I view all the pastors or priest just like my neighbors. I think the churches are just social places that people could meet and say hi to each other. Being a christian is something that is personal that you cant really convince anybody else but you. Example of this is, If i could always say that i am a christian to my girlfriend, but deep inside me am i really? meaning its something really personal.
By the way, did the bible say that a person who smoke will go to hell? No.
This is the same thing in making love with your man, did the bible say making love with a woman will lead you to hell? I doubt. God made us attracted to our opposite sex because this was his plan.
If you want to take your spiritual life crazier, dont even wear clothes when you go to work because all these are materials made out of your clothes are coming from plants and animals that God made. (this is probably would be the next idea that you may be heading to)
But please, do yourself a favor, when you listen to a person who claims himself a prophet or pastor in a church, do not follow all of them. you have to read the bible and understand it yourself.
If the scenario was if you do not love the guy and you are having sex then you maybe going in hell…
but this is not me to judge. 😀
Nicolette says
Unless you get closer to God, you won’t understand what Yasmin is trying to express. However, as a sister in Christ/ Yeshua/ God, it also makes me think of the fact that Adam and Eve were never officially married on paper but perhaps rather in spirit via God’s eyes, therefore i am not saying sex before marriage is okay but perhaps maybe forgiven or accepted. At the end of the day, i do believe it is okay to stay sexless until legally married because i have known some who have done this and they say that it greatly strenghtend their relationships, similiar to fasting during high holidays, etc.
Asha says
having intimacy without going to far sexually if you are with your bf is hard as a Christian , it is better to marry young so you have less years of temptation but that is not always done. jus try your best and a balance will be found it will be hard and any guy if he loves you and sees such a struggle in your personal and religious life will want to marry you not because he wants great sex but because he loves you. Good luck to you Yasmin and God bless
seanyae@yahoo.com says
I think you are doing a good thing.. You may have slept with him a little too soon but everyone makes mistakes and god will forgive you.. But knowing that it is wrong and you continue to do it will only make god angry. Now dealing with your boyfriend.. If he is not pressuring you then he is being genuine. But if he does not respect your decision then he does not deserve you because if he did he would marry you like a respectable man would;)
CG says
I’ve spent time reading this, pretty immature it’s so obvious there are a lot of posts that were posted under different user name but the same Person, I am not going to say who 😉
A girlfriend’s body is not a car and a man being her bf does not give him the ‘privileges’ to ‘drive’ her, sorry to break it into you, this world does not evolve just around your little world, fulfilling your* own needs and them only.
littleangel says
Why not getting married instead? That is a simple solution. You can keep the relationship, the loving boyfriend and the sex. The people who only make everything complicated. 🙂
Me says
Jesus Christ what is with you faith nuts. How can a girl cut off a guy with some stupid excuse and expect him to be okay with it. I would break up with that girl in 20 seconds. Evan was much nicer than I would have been. Pray you don’t email my column (or worse, the GQ for answers). Good luck you poor girl. Let me know how long it takes him to leave you… If its a month maybe he really loved you. Congrats.
Saint Stephen says
I know some couple of great relationships that broke-up over Faith. There is obviously no way to navigate around it when you have a strong calling which your partner does not share.
I’ve seen a man who left his devoted girlfriend who loves him to death (abandoning all their plans of tying the knot and raising a loving family) to become a monk despite his girlfriend’s plea and endless tears.
Things of the spirit cannot be understood physically, neither can logic apply to them.
Cassie says
I don’t see anything wrong with it. If he really loves you, he will understand and wait til marriage, like you’re SUPPOSED to do anyway. I am in the same boat. I want to stop after I’ve been rushed for 8 months. If he leaves me, then I’m better off. If he stays, then maybe he’s worth it. But really, no girl owes a guy anything. It’s our body. We have a say.
Mike says
“If he stays, then maybe he’s worth it. But really, no girl owes a guy anything. It’s our body. We have a say.”
THIS!
I wonder how many cats you will own by the time you’re 60.
If you give it up, then take it away.. then you’re not worth it. If you can’t realize moving the goalposts after the game has started is wrong, then i can only hope the guy has enough sense to leave you asap since it’s his life and he owes you nothing and has a say too, as in he can tell you where the door is.
starthrower68 says
You act like that’s a bad thing. Seems to me Mother Theresa did wonderful, fulfilling work in the world serving God by serving others. I never saw an article or interview where she complained about missing sex or not having a man. Given the predominant attitudes in the culture, I cannot say taking vows or having a bunch of cats is the worse option. 😊
Sue says
I am in the same situation. I told the guy in the beginning i wouldnt have sex until marriage even though it has progressed after being with him for 2 and a half years without being married to him. Since he hasnt gotten me a ring yet I think its time to pull back from the sex since I dont want to be used in this manner. I wont feel bad from refraining because if he decides to leave me he never oved me to begin with.
Monis Khan says
Hi Yasmin,
I am going from a similar situation, my gf is a muslim, i was a Christian, she told me she can’t marry a non-Muslim, so i turned into Muslim (also i found it more appropriate) anyway, at the starting of relationship she didn’t let me do any touching or anything, she told me its sin, but i forced her so much because i wanted to see her commitment and she accepted, we never had actual sex but we did like kissing and touching, but after 5 months she made a decision to stop all this and save it until we marry. I agreed with her, i am having such difficulties because i feel such need for it, but i can’t do it, i am not gonna leave her just because of this, i am trying to be strong, i know its hard for me at the starting its been 4 days since i quit and Inshallah i will be able to keep my promise. 🙂
Regards, Monis.
Stephany Hoffman says
Yasmin,
As a woman who went through the same thing, (except about 4 yrs into my relationship!!!) I applaud you.
Stay true to you.
Talk to him about how he feels, maybe write him a letter if he is awkward about the situation.
Remember ppl LOVE IS NOT JUST SEX!!!!!
So if he loves you, if he thinks you are worth waiting for… and how you feel about the long run rather than the here and now moment in front of you he will listen to and try and understand where you are coming from,
ALSO VERY IMPORTANT TO LET HIM KNOW that waiting FOR HIM may be hard for you to do as well, but it is a sacrifice you Love him (and because maybe you believe a pure marriage is that much more beautiful and believe it or not, it is soooo so much SEXIER!!! when you are then one)… 😉
If he respects you and you honor him let him know! maybe he feels the same. if not, you know what that man is about, that simple. you have to LOVE yourself before others. ANY others
Also don’t be so nervous. when you believe in the woman you want to be that makes it that much easier for your bf to believe in the woman you want to be! I’ve heard girls say “WOMAN enough to bring out the pure man in him?” lol meh? not quite like that…It’s up to him now, it isn’t like he doesn’t have the choice.
I DON’T BELIEVE IN CONSISTENCY, but I do believe in growing and bettering yourself continually your whole life through BECAUSE I’m AWESOME! lol and so are you Yasmin.
much love
Stephany Hoffman
http://www.facebook.com/stephany_87
eternalskeptik says
I am writing my post after spending almost and hour reading all the posts and here are my comments on OP’s question:
1. She asked that she wanted to stop having sex with her boyfriend to get closer to God till she gets marries to him?
all the post had varying degrees of assumptions made by the poster to defend their point of view and so I shall also indulge in such liberty of expression of my views
Yasmin..
2 months was not a long time for you to know the guy well before you started having sex with him and now that you want to stop sex for whatever reasons you have, I would agree to your own thought…
yes, you are taking it far… it is hard for any guy to stop having sex just at the spur of the moment.. men are differently wired than women are.. so you got to really think over it..
2. I agree to many who say that neither of them owe anything to each other.. they mutually agreed to be n a relationship and now they should mutually decide on this issue as well.. so guys hold your horses.. sorry if I am sounding aggressive..
3. I guess religion was unnecessarily blown out of proportion here.. everybody will have a different understanding and definition of the word “Christian” so no need to beat the stick on it., as some have tried valiantly tried to explain, just leave it.. it has not come to a conclusion and I believe it will never come to an end this..
4. And by the way, Yasmin, said that he agreed to not have sex so lets just wait for what happens.. Evan just shared his opinion on the issue so no need to attack him personally. I believe the post is meant to answer the issue or clarify it rather than totally taking it into religion or any other thing, which unfortunately is happening in the post.
Lets talk on facts that we know of than to make assumptions and discuss something that might not even happen.
Thanks and please my apologies for any offense I might have made in my post as it was purely co-incidental and unintentional.
kittykat60621 says
honey!! you are doing the right thing!! you want to get closer to God you must not have sex until you are married!! if he love you then he will be cool with your decision! and if hes not, then he probably isnt the one for you! i was in your shoes! i was dating my (now) husband for 2 years before we got married. and when i got closer to the lord i told him that i couldnt have sex with him anymore until we got married, and if he didnt like it, he was more than welcome to hit the door and move on with his life, because i was not going to risk my salvation for no one. you cant serve jesus and live in fornication, despite what this devilish world may tell you! but all in all i say pray to God on this situation, because God may not have attended for him to be your husband (DO NOT RISK YOUR SALVATION FOR NO ONE OR NOTHING)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(JESUS IS LORD)
MISS-TERIOUS says
firstly I agree with waiting until marriage to have sex, and yes it is unfair to have already had sex for 10 months and now you change your mind.
Yes you are entitled to change your mind at any given time, but think about what it did to your boyfriend. maybe you gave his ego a blow (no pun intended) and now he is questioning why he should stay with you, men like their egos stroked (speaking under correction).
we can turn things around and say,”if he really loves you, he would understand and stay”, or ” a relationship is not based on sex”.
before you make any harsh decision, ponder about it a bit more.
put yourself in your boyfriend’s shoes and see how you would feel if it was him telling you that he didn’t want to have sex any more.
there are many other ways to be intimate its not only about penetration, but most people prefer to have sex to feel closer to the person they are involved with. maybe the 2 of should explore other means of intimacy and see how it goes.
have you thought about the fact that you are going to become horny, what is your back up plan?
i know my 2cents of a comment might not be of any help, but at the end of the day, you have to decide what is the right choice for you.
NonExist says
Evan is spot on as always.
True she does not owe her boyfriend anything.
And he does not owe her anything either.
Which means if he breaks up with her because of this, no harm no foul.
As Evan said though, she should not expect the guy to stick around just because she has had a shift in her spiritual lifestyle.
Allegra says
Hi,
First I would like to say that in part, I do not think it was fair to ask Evan this questions as it should have been directed at a Pastor. Evan is no theologian and is not paid to be one. You want a Christian counselor, go to one. But, I do believe that he made some valid points- even though I don’t agree with everything he said.
Second, I believe he has every right to be confused on the sex before marriage thing in relation to Christianity/similar religions as the two contradict each other. If sex before marriage is wrong, then why wouldn’t this issued be messy? Evan is looking at it from a logical standpoint and nailed it right on the head by stating that it is unfair to have sex with a guy and then cut him off while expecting him to stay. Unless this a decision that they made together because they have similar beliefs, the guy is going to jet.
Poor Evan, I believe that Christian females will be his hardest clients of all. Most of them will probably fall into two categories: the devout firm believers, and the Christian Atheists (those who claim to believe in God and yet live as if he doesn’t exist). My religious belief is that God either exists or he doesn’t. There is no in-between. And, if he truly exists- then he should be the one we should be going to with questions like these, not Evan. Evan gives great advice and insight, but you can’t expect him to fix something you already believe is wrong.
Being a Christian myself, I respect Evan and take his advice with a grain of salt. But, I have to say I respect him even more after reading the disclaimer at the end about going to the respected clergy instead of him on this issue.
Experience says
All rubbish sexual dysfunction is what is called its normal to stop
Sex with the one you think you love. Most sexless relationships end and never return.
coz says
To the guy who answered the question u are not thinking of the woman religious beliefs goD is all forgiving as u rudely put it but y would u intentionally sin that basically using God wen repenting cause u meant to sin.Sex before marriage is a sin so I respect her decision.Sin seperates us from God and to sin with intent is wrong
Peter says
Each new sexual relationship is another new attachment stimulated by hormones and nerve patterns. Each one after the first one is weaker. Waiting until you are committed is the right strategy for an enduring relationship. (Although Anne Boleyn made Henry VIII wait and he chopped her head off). UK statistics are quite clear that people who cohabit before marriage have a higher divorce rate than people who wait until marriage for cohabitation.
After marriage the opposite rule applies. Have a lot of sex even when you don’t feel like. God or not, most catholic Christians (Orthodox, Roman, Anglican, Methodists other reformed) wedding vows include “with my body I thee worship”. It’s part of the contract. It’s an obligation. Break it at the peril of your long term happiness, feminist credo or not.
TRUELOVE says
I have personally been through this decision myself with my boyfriend of 11 Months. Everything turned out great, we both decided our relationship needed a stronger and solid foundation that didn’t involve us having a sexual relationship. 5 months and the relationship is better then it has ever been, our focus is on bettering our self, and growing closer to God. True love waits, even if the first decision was made to have sex there is no rule book here, it is life. There isba God with standards on how we should conduct our lives. If he really loves you then sex is not an issue, and after making it through this point you will see all the things you were missing…. i believe then when you get married you will feel complete with you, him, and your new life togather. If he decides not to wait for you then it is time to take a stand for the true you, and find a man that will respect you and your decisions on what to do with YOUR BODY! You have control ove that no one else. My boyfriend and I have discovered all we were missing out on and enjoy knowing we truly love one another, knowing we weathered this strom and many others that we are able to take the next step. Good Luck, remember true love and true to you.
Shakesgirl says
This is a very difficult decision. I agree with the comments that sex is more about intimacy and connection, than anything else. Yasmin, I think you should listen to your heart, and talk to your boyfriend about your decision. If this is a deal breaker for him, than clearly he is not the one.
Richard Hairston says
I think that if you are involved with one person of the opposite sex in a intimate relationship that God sanctions the commitment as a marriage. Any sexual activity outside of this relationship is a sin which is promiscuity, fornication and adultry. I also believe that God never intended for the divine institution of marriage to be in the hands of a diabolical nation like America who has no respect for things that are divine at all. Especially when this country sanctions the union of 2 male or female persons. Do you think God is pleased with this??
ce100 says
sex is a sin…until you are married to the person you love…but we all not perfect either…so things we do have to change to improve in ourselves….even sex…just limiting yourself from desires that can get heated into other situtations…so i believe that she is being strong minded for herself…
Jadafisk says
“I think that if you are involved with one person of the opposite sex in a intimate relationship that God sanctions the commitment as a marriage.”
That’s… an exceedingly unorthodox reading. The Bible says that what God has joined, no man should tear asunder (Mark 10:9). How many “marriages” has the average straight person initiated and dissolved in a lifetime under this interpretation? Easily 5 or 6, and every one beyond the first one would be considered adultery per Biblical edict (Matthew 19:9). In your rush to absolve yourself and fellow straight Christians of fornication, you’ve declared them serial adulterers. I implore you to take the plank out of your own eye.
Andrea says
This is an awesome response! One of my all time favourites! Made me laugh. Made me shake my head. Made me think about the oh so many ways we seem determined to complicate our lives. So many of us get what we think we want – in this case a great guy, a great relationship but somehow we can’t stand all the ‘great’. Nooooo need a little chaos, need a little tension to keep life ‘interesting’. Got a little too much happiness and serenity going on here….Oi. Not to mention that Evan is pretty clear on this kind of thing – seriously, did she really expect a different answer?
Shazza says
This can be a problem for those who seriously desire to strengthen their original relationship with God. I am 63 and recently became friends with a 73 yr old man who also said he was a christian. He knew my beliefs before we were even friends and yet as soon as it hit the ‘sex’ question he insulted my intelligence, belittled my values, spitefully withdrew courtesy and the simply shown affection of a hello and goodbye kiss. He boasted that I did not know how persuasive he could be, to which I replied that he did not know how strong minded I could be. He accused me of not loving him, that I had ‘not proven myself enough’ to him. Considering that he himself told me all the other reasons he was drawn to me as far as my ethics and integrity was concerned it seemed he wanted a good woman that was just a little bit bad! I did love him and there were many ways where he did show kindness but because he continually tryed to push my boundaries into a situation wher I would lose total respect for him because he did not value ALL of my values.To this point I had been celibate for 18 1/2 years. In essence I had to break my own heart to protect not only myself but him from the sin of fornication. In any ordinary dictionary it is’a sexual relationship between two people who are not married’ A DICTIONARY folks…NOT JUST THE BIBLE! Scripture says ‘It is better to marry than to burn with passion’. I invited this man to marry me then if he wanted me so much so that we could both enjoy a sexual relationship in front of Gods face instead of behind Gods back. His responce.’Thats an ultimatum!’ And what was his…that if I did not end up having sex with him, he would end the relationship. I am on my own and though I miss his kindness, which may easily now have been just a way to seduce me, I am very thankful that I put my relationship with God first. What ever God requires of me is for my ultimate protection and wellbeing…not for his own selfish pleasure.
Jean says
Shocked!!! Wow!! I cannnot believe most of you people. How dare you all jump on this woman for making a decision about her beliefs, her body, her life, and most important, her relationahip with God!! How dare you all!! No wonder we have so many sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies. A WOMAN DOES NOT OWE HER BOYFRIEND SEX!! You all should not give these unfair messages out where these young gullible females are reading, believing, then and then go on to think that it is a crime against the world. Shame on all of you.
To Yasmin, honey you are right in your decision. The majority answer does not necessarily mean it is right. My female club members and amy sisters, my cousins all support you 100% . Do what is between you and God. We love you and we’ve got your back.
I expect these rude harsh responses from men, but al the rude responses from females is a big surprise.
Jean says
How are you doing? Hang in there Yasmin. Hang in there baby girl. I feel like you are my daughter, so, please know that some of us love you! 11-16-2012
Lucy says
@Jean – I’m going to be controversial and say that yeah she does owe him sex, well sort of. Let’s get real. If he’s been having things a certain way and that suddenly changes, then that’ll shock him. Of course it’s up to her to do what she wants but she can’t expect him to be totally on board with that. I mean that’s common sense, and it has nothing to do with what your view on religion is. The same is true if a religious woman got into a relationship making it clear she wanted to save herself, and then the guy tried to persuade her to change the game plan. Both aren’t good. You should start how you mean to go on.
Okay I admit that I’m an agnostic. I don’t understand what sex has to do with God or why not having sex would bring one closer to God. Just doesn’t sound logical to me. Why would God create us as sexually charged beings and not want us to have sex? I mean if it’s that bad, maybe He should have only given us the ability to reproduce but not experience pleasure from sex? And wouldn’t God want us to be happy if that happiness involves us indulging our sexual passions?
Aren’t there other ways she can get closer to God anyway? Would God support her emotionally neglecting him by deciding to stop having sex? I would never deride someone’s religious views as silly…but seems silly to potentially losing an amazing guy. Surely there’s a better way she can engage with her faith.
Ano says
You are not alone. Go to http://en.allexperts.com/q/Christianity-Christian-Living-1401/2009/3/Sex-Marriage-stop.htm it helped me
Kenny says
I’m actually in this same situation right now, which is why I am here. I wanted to see what other people had to say. Honestly, I have to say that I don’t think it is fair for you to want to change that part of the relationship and expect him to stay with you. You should be prepared for him to want to leave, because sex plays a key part in relationships. Now, if you had stated before having any sort of sexual interaction with him that you don’t want to have sex until marriage, then you could possibly have avoided all of the heartbreak and uglyness that might be around the corner, because there were no feelings off attachment and love created yet. However, leading someone into a relationship which they believe is going to be sexually open, and causing a person to not only become emotionally, but also physically attracted and attached to you and trying to break that physical part and expecting them to want to stay would be unfair. I’m trying to get my girlfriend to at least understand this, but I don’t want her to have to compromise her religious beliefs because of me, even though I’m an agnostic. It is hard for some men to sexually move backwards, especially completely backwards. However, if these intentions were stated initially, you, nor I, would be having this problem right now
Jean says
All of the people here who disagree with a woman changin her mind in the middle of the game, may be a little confused or incompassionate, or non understanding, or anti female, or something of the like, when it comes to the way you all are approaching this female person, named, Yasmin.
First off, many, many females give in to sex, because of all the notions that society has placed on us. Example: If you don’t give it to your man he will do this, or no man will accept you, or you must be a prude, or you must be strange, or you must be old fashioned, and the list goes on and on. This scolding is not right and not fair. Women allow themselves to give in to the men’s scolding. Females, you should nott allow these scolders to change your convictions. You do not owe any man outside of marriage, a darn thing; sex included!!
Yasmin, I 100% agree with you and I have your back. I will travel with you around the world and speak up for women to stand against all this pressure to have sex with a man. I am not a troll, and do not hate men, and I have not been in bad relationships with men. IWhen I was a young female, I abstained from sex and did fine, until I met my man and was ready for commitment and sex. I just believe that men use women for sex outside of marriage. If you locked each man that claims that sex is so needed, in separate rooms for 2 years and only gave them food, restoom, television, etc, these men would not die of no sex from a woman. They would survive.
Yasmin, stick to your convictions. Let him go!! So dog gone what. You will do fine without him or any man, as long as you want. Girl, do not let these evil talking people, who are so consumed with sex, make you give in and join the other brainwashed females.
cornflake girl says
Well, i have a problem similar to Yasmin, but it’s the other way around. My boyfriend is the one who wants to cut off the sex (because of fear of God)…. Well, i love God too, but i love sex too, intimacy and all…
Paige says
Same here, except I don’t believe in god. And if I did, I still wouldn’t stop having sex. Especially with the guy I thought I’d end up marrying. If we ended up getting married, I don’t see the harm in sex. It’s with the same person each time, you plan marriage but just haven’t done it yet. No big deal.
Angel says
Your answer to this poor girl was so insensitive. Her sexuality and her God are both precious to her and you treated them very disrepectfully.
Jean says
My comment was not insensitive. Don’t tell lies on me. Read before you comment. It showed her support, rather than having her listening to someone telling her she owes a boyfriend sex. Women are more than sex. If a man cannot respect that, then it is too bad. If she decides to stop in the middle of the game, then that is what you all must respect. If her boyfriend decided than he needed to stop doing something in the middle of the game, I would support him also.
Sex is way over rated. It is enjoyable to some and not important to others. You people need to respect a woman and her convictions, when she is not married to a man. That is some of the problem with the abundance of disease and teen pregnancies. We need to teach our girls to say no. Just because a boyfriend wants sex, it does not mean a girlfriend has to give in. 5-2013
Girls of the world, I support you saying no if you are not ready. Remember, you have a right to do what you want with your body. Trust me, I am an experienced female who abstained until I met a man who committed to me. Before that, I had my mind on God, my job, my family, and my friends. Sex is way too over rated. It puts girls in a dangerous situation.
Goldie says
@ Jean
“First off, many, many females give in to sex, because of all the notions that society has placed on us.”
And yet Yasmin, who admits that sex with her boyfriend has been “amazing”, is willing to give it up because of the notions that her corner of society has placed on her.
If any of them undergoes a huge personal change and decides to completely change the rules of their relationship in the middle of the game, as you say, that is completely their right. Just like it is completely their partner’s right to say, Wait a minute. Who is this person I’m with? What is this new way of life they’re forcing on me? I didn’t sign up for this. To me this is no different from a situation when, after ten months of being monogamous, one of the partners suddenly decides they need to switch to an open relationship and bring new partners into their bed right now. It is completely their right to do so. But the odds are high that the other partner may walk out, unless by happy coincidence he or she happens to also like open relationships.
“Sex is way too over rated. It puts girls in a dangerous situation.”
Wow. Can I point out that this is your opinion, not Yasmin’s. She likes being intimate with her boyfriend, she’s just being guilt-tripped by whatever religious organizations she belongs to, into no longer having sex. That’s a little different. If she hadn’t liked sex from the beginning, her bf would’ve known that from the beginning and they wouldn’t be in this situation now. TBH my advice to her would be, if you like doing it, keep doing it. Just keep it on the DL and don’t tell your church friends. if there is a god, I’m pretty sure he or she won’t mind two consenting adults having sex as part of a committed relationship. This approach worked for me when I got religion at 22 after meeting my future husband at 20.
PS Pretty sure that Angel’s comment #157 was to EMK, not you. She didn’t say who she was addressing it to.
Jean says
Golldie,
Sex being over rated is not just my opinion. It is proven when many people throughout time and across the world have cited examples of this, by revealing that they have not and do not get anything out of the sex act, then hear men and some women, go on, and on, and on, and on, about its importance. GOLDIE, that is what people mean, when they say that something is over rated. Plain and simple, huh?
“Just keep it on the DL and don’t tell your church friends if there is a god, I’m pretty sure he or she won’t mind two consenting adults having sex as part of a committed relationship”
This is the way you see things? Your belief, not mine. This is the way you see your god, not the way I see my God. You see Goldie, we all have opinions, don’t we? Even you have an opinion.
Girls, do not owe their boyfriends sex. Just because most men and some women want sex all the time, does not mean it is okay to condemn those of us who are fine without it in our single years. We need to support all females who choose to not have premarital sex, even when they stop in the middle of the game. If sex is that important to him and not her right now, maybe it’s better that she found out now. This may help her to become stronger for the attacks of the over rating sex crowd. A girl is not validated by any man, not her boyfriend, her husband, and not her dad. Females are vital and important just by being female, with our without sex. Let us stop scolding females for not liking sex and for expressing how little they want and need it. 5-17-13
Me says
I AND my boyfriend decided to stop after 4 months (and it wasn’t constant, it wasn’t even once a week) because of our Biblical beliefs as well. We made mistakes and went against the Word of the Lord and we both felt it pulling us away from the Lord. We, when having our personal prayer time w/ the Lord were constantly asking to be forgiven for what we knew we were gonna do again. This caused us to feel such guilt and shame that it became harder and harder to continue coming to the Lord. We were no longer close to the Lord. Our focus was on the lust and physical desire and not on the Lord. I was consumed w/ fear that if I did not exercise some restraint, the Lord would take my boyfriend away from me in order to save me. I didn’t want that. I wanted our relationship to be a Godly one because it would then have the Lord’s blessing upon it. We believe that the Lord only wants the best for us and if we follow His word and His will then we can trust that we will have happiness in the end. If we were to constantly be in a state of guilt and shame and worry that YES, since we knew better, we would go to hell if we continued, it would be horrible. I want to have the peace that I’m following the Lord. If I do not then I am drawn away from the Lord. A big part of getting closer to the Lord is choosing to submit to His will and obey because it is for our better, in the same way that parents want their children to do things that the kids may not want to do, but in the future will be for their good and will benefit their lives. You do His will and then continue w/ prayer and Bible study to know Him better and GET CLOSER TO GOD. That’s what getting closer to God is. She has every right to do this. Yes…if he can’t deal w/it, especially after he was lead to believe that sex would always be a part of the relationship, he also has the right to leave, but do NOT condemn her for making a good choice. From my past, I’ve seen that when sex comes very soon in a relationship, it ends up taking up a lot of time that is needed to get to know each other. Test it out….if you guys just chilled out together and talked etc. in the time that you would be having sex, if it ends up like “Soooo…..yeah….so….hmmm…what’s goin’ on?” then that means that the ONLY way you even communicate is through sex. NOT GOOD!!!! and if you never knew it was that way because that time was always about sex, you wouldn’t have a strong relationship. Sometimes the only reason a couple stays together is because of the physical part. When they go out on a date, the sex is what they are looking forward to and not the actual person whom has a character and personality and opinions and thoughts etc. I want to look forward to being w/ the person more than their genitalia. I mean, things happen in life and relationships from surgeries to impotency where sex may be impossible for a while or forever even and I would hate to find out that me, as a person, am not good enough to keep their attention. If you don’t have sex till marriage or decide to stop having sex until marriage and your partner doesn’t want to stay w/ you, then obviously the only thing that was keeping them around was the sex and not the person. If they really liked the person, but are upset because they really want to be able to show their physical love as well, they can always choose to marry that person and then have the best of both worlds. If they won’t choose to do that, then there probably was never really any true commitment to the relationship and they were happy w/ having their cake and eating it too. Why can’t the devout Christian have their cake and eat it too so to speak, where they have the relationship, sex and closeness to God? That’s marriage.
Me says
@ Goldie,
Hi Goldie. I as a christian do know that there are many that seem to love condemning and pointing out to others where they fall short and yes, this may cause some to change their ways only because they feel forced to in order to make their church family happy and then feel accepted.
On the other hand, there are also those whom are convicted by the words of the Bible and the conviction of the Lord that there needs to be a change in their lives. This change gives them and God happiness and that is the ONLY reason they choose to change the path they have been walking. Keeping their continuing sex life on the “down low” at church accomplishes nothing when you are trying to please the Lord. Noone can keep ANYTHING in their life on the down low from God. As a Christian, they must realize that they should only be living and breathing for an audience of ONE. He is GOD. In the end, it’s not your church family that will judge your life.
I would also like to point out that just because she enjoyed having sex w/ him, it does not mean that she should continue. There are many things that people do that feels really good and they love doing, like drugs, stealing and even rape and murder, but it does not mean that they should continue w/ it. Have you ever thought that now the thought of obeying the Lord and being closer to Him is even more amazing than having sex w/ her boyfriend?
CG says
My boyfriend and I didn’t have sex for a year and a half. He had been very sexually active in previous relationships, at 24, but I was a 19 yr old virgin. We were both religious and decided early on not to have sex before we married. (And by sex, i mean anything more than heavy kissing). Needless to say, we got married ASAP. I was 20, and still a virgin on my wedding night. It was so special to give myself to someone who cared about his relationship with me, and his relationship with God. Talk about intimacy! We’ve been married for 28 years, and even though we’ve gone through rough patches in our relationship, we’ve worked through them, and we’re closer now than we ever have been. I’m glad for those difficult and teasing times while we dated. They helped us develop self-control and patience, and made sex the ultimate wedding gift to each other.
Jean says
Tc all females, everywhere.
Do what you need to do for yourself. Do not be pressured by all the articles on the internet that is written by mostly men and indoctrinated women who have been paid or is getting paid to write articles that put unfair pressure and expectations on females. Often times people will label females like me, who speak up and support females, as a feminist, a man hater, or one who needs to get laid. None of these titles are correct. This is just a practice, by this man exalting society that blames females for everything. But if you are smart enough to read these articles, you should be able to look at all the info, that blames and scold females, decipher it and see that something is not quite right. Be aware that something sinister IS going on in this world of ours and it is all about exalting, worshipping, praising, and serving males, while females are belittled, demeaned, scolded, and blamed for everything.
Yes, we are aware that all males are not alike and are different in many ways, but males do support their gender even when the males happen to be wrong, especially in male female relationships. Males, STICK together. Females are bitchy and catty towards each other and are too stupid to see how foolish we look when we tear our gender down. In fact, we tend to see just as many females being disrespectful to the female gender as males are.
Now, when it comes to a female being in a relationship with a male, we can see a tendency for the general population of males to get bored with the one female companion. Yes, he will admit that he loves her, but he is all the while, struggling inside, to keep his mind and his genitals with her only. All the while, the poor gullible, naive, and so in love female, is dreaming that all is fair and believing that “he is mine”. But someone, a non gullible, non brainwashed female, needs to step forward and reveal what she knows about males, and tell the truth to gullible females.
Lastly, since we are aware that males bring sexually transmitted diseases to their partners, we females must be more vigilant. A female needs to weigh all options and keep herself as safe as possible. All the pressure for intimate relations, is surely going to be there, long before she is ready for relations. Women have other things that are more important to them. This is just a reality. But anyway, she needs to know that she does not need to be foolish and compromise herself. She needs to be told that when her partner pressures her for anal and oral relations, that he basically is looking out for his OWN satisfaction, not hers. There IS NO physical satisfaction for a woman in oral and anal relations. Tell the truth. I do not bite my tongue with this! Also, if the male has more than one partner, he may be having anal and oral with other female(s). Just stop and think for a minute. If your boyfriend has had relations with another female, or ever strays during the course of the relationship with you and he has anal relations and comes to you expect intimacy, he will be giving you the other female’s bodily fluids. That’s just plain old nasty. Think about this females.
Females please think before you go to bed with any man you are not married to, and even the ones you marry may be compromising you. I don’t hate men, but I realize that men are in it for themselves. Talk about love if you want, but for a man, it should be called, “I”m in sex with her.” 🙂 10-25-13
Females, you have a lot to think about when it comes to getting all serious with a male. You have more to lose than him. Look up and study AIDS and other disease that fmelaes get from men.Your life depends on you knowledge of diseases and tyyou r loving yourself and being strong. Also, do not fall so head over heels in love with any man. Males do not love us as seriously as we tend to love them .trusrt me as a a experinced female. I have nothing to lose or nothing to gain by telling you this, except giving other females some knowledge.
judy says
Oh dear. Does the lady know what she’s doing? It certainly doesn’t sound like it.
I was brought up in a more religious atmosphere, and viewed with as much tolerance as I can, the guy must be absolutely bewildered.
He might see you as a tease.
Please ladies – make up your mind first. If it’s no sex before marriage, then be clear about it. Not no/yes/no/yes/no. It’s yes or no.
Yes means you get the sex and maybe you get the man. You might also be treated to, do you always sleep around with men before you get a commitment?
Or…..you were pretty easy?
And before anyone thinks I’m on the man’s side entirely, I think this argument stinks to high heaven and those who speak to me like that get my standard reply “You were there too, weren’t you?”
Jean says
See, in spite of my rant, I do not get why a woman cannot change her mind ABOUT HER OWN VAGINA! Since when does a woman have to explain to anyone, why she decides to be chaste?
Evan Marc Katz says
@Jean. She doesn’t have to explain. And he doesn’t have to stick around in the relationship if she changed the terms of the relationship.
Jean says
Your sarcasm is noticed and expected. I understand. because men are too quick to inform us about the fact that they need sex
Two points I need to bring to your attention about that :
1) It is common for women to be willing to selflessly turn a blind eye and be willing to stay with their husbands during the husbands’ periods of impotence.
2) Wives desperately need a nonsexual intimacy from their husbands, also need regular verbal communication, but stay with the husbands stay even when the need is not met.
Go figure. Makes ya’ think, doesn’t it Marc? Wouldn’t you say that these two points reveal what I and so many other women have been trying to get you all to see? The evidence is there. Men are more selfish, narcissistic, egotistical, and not worth it for a woman to get involved with. She loses all the way around. 10-26-13
Evan Marc Katz says
@Jean – Before I go to bed, let me set you straight:
1. It is not sarcasm when I say something I mean. I meant it when I said that a man has a right to leave his girlfriend when she chooses not to have sex with him any longer. She would have the same exact right, by the way.
2. You have an objectively poor argument. When a man is impotent, he can’t help it. When a woman says she’s giving up sex to get closer to God, that’s her choice. Sticking with a man (or a woman) with a physical problem is noble. Sticking with a partner who consciously denies you sex when you’ve already been having sex is willfully foolish. Again, for either gender.
3. Your next argument is that women are stupid to stick around with emotionally detached men, and so therefore women have the right to deny boyfriends sex? Huh? I’ve spent ten years telling women to LEAVE emotionally detached men. Thus, it doesn’t MATTER if a man is selfish, narcissistic and egotistical if you DUMP him. If you don’t dump him, it’s on YOU.
4. My name is Evan. Says so all over this website. Good night and good luck in love with that attitude towards men (and logic).
Karl R says
Jean asked: (#166)
“See, in spite of my rant, I do not get why a woman cannot change her mind ABOUT HER OWN VAGINA! Since when does a woman have to explain to anyone, why she decides to be chaste?”
A woman can change her mind about what she does with her vagina. A woman doesn’t have to explain.
Just like a man can change his mind about what he does with his entire body. Just like a man doesn’t have to explain why he’s using his body to dump your chaste vagina.
Jean said: (#168)
“It is common for women to be willing to selflessly turn a blind eye and be willing to stay with their husbands during the husbands’ periods of impotence.”
When my wife got sick and couldn’t have sex, my concern was her health. If you’re dating a man (or woman) who is less concerned about your health than their libido, you need to find a different partner.
That’s not a difference between men and women. That’s a minimum acceptable standard for a relationship.
Jean said: (#168)
“Wives desperately need a nonsexual intimacy from their husbands, also need regular verbal communication, but stay with the husbands stay even when the need is not met.”
If a man isn’t meeting your needs (nonsexual intimacy and regular verbal communication), dump him or divorce him.
You can point to thousands of women making poor decisions about whom they choose to remain with. That doesn’t mean Evan or I (or any other man) is required to do the same.
Jean said: (#168)
“Men are more selfish, narcissistic, egotistical, and not worth it for a woman to get involved with.”
If that’s your experience, don’t date men. Don’t marry them.
Problem solved.
Evan and I have advice that works for the women who do want to get married. We tell women to avoid the selfish, narcissistic and egotistical men. We also tell them how to avoid driving off the good men. Suddenly deciding to stop having sex … that tends to drive off men. Even the good men.
Jean asked: (#168)
“Makes ya’ think, doesn’t it Marc?”
You put no thought into your rants when you were making them. They certainly aren’t going to inspire anyone to think while they’re reading them.
judy says
I just loved this:
women have org*sms at the merest touch
What is this? National Orgasm Week?
Surely the whole point of sex is sharing, not that you get your owed orgasm.
Jean says
Judy, that was so dry and silly. go for it again.
Sophia micinley says
Hello, I have been and LDS church goer since I was born, bein born into this religion has given me great guidelines and correct perspectives on worldly matters, being adopted into my family that has seen the importance of church is truly a blessing, even though my parents where both heavily into drugs and weren’t te beat people, I have learned to forgive them, anyways that is just a little background about me. I see this mans point about the car thing, it DOES make sense. Even though I am a church girl I see the importance of your similarities. I myself have a hard time with my sexual desires. After having one donut, it’s hard not to have another, correct? Very true. Thanks for the similarity because as if now I have a boyfriend I have know for 4 years, I dated his BFF, but he always seemed of
Me, after me and my ex didn’t work out, he never stopped trying to be in my
Life, after 2 years of being his on and of again friend, I finnaly
Said yes to a date. We have sex. It ISNT ok. He wants to marry me! Great right? Yes. But the sex thing does worry me. Unfortunatly we all have our certain temptations that get ya going and ours is sex.
I plan to serve a mission and it is hard to see it happenin wen I am sinning, I’m hoping that him and I can work this through and he can be the man I want hi to be for my life, so we will see
How it goes and how good he will change.
Nina says
Yasmin! Don’t listen to Evan. How can you present matters of the spirit to one who operates only on the physical, and has no spiritual maturity?!
Please, the decision you’ve made (if you’re sure this is a decision and not just a temporary reaction to something) is a great one. You cannot sin and have a relationship with God. That’s what earthly people want us to believe. Fornication and adultery have been trivialized. If you are a Christian, you know (God despises sexual sins) your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Anyway, I just went through the exact same situation you are going through. It spanned five months and we are still building up and moving forward. We’d been together for about 7months before then. Our 1yr anniversary is in a few days..
My man received my “decision” very badly. We had a massive fight – said I was controlling, selfish and bullying him. Took all his things from my apartment. Had a screaming match and stormed off – twice. We went on a break from there. Long story short, my man came back about a week after telling me he’d realized he couldn’t be without me etc. We got back but only after laying grounds and expectations we had of each other. We also got counseled by a fee people because we had little fights after that getting acquainted with the new “mode of operation.
Nevertheless, I’d tell you it could have been more difficult if my boyfriend didn’t at least posses any iota of a shared religious/spiritual belief with me. At least, we were able to build on that with the counsel we sought and his belief too in God. Secondly, if he truly loves you, he’d be willing to at least try, genuinely. Also, you too must learn to compromise in the adjusting process. If you don’t have sex/sleep over at each other’s house, you should kiss him more and cuddle to the fullest. Let him know you love him in every way possible. If one of you has to sleep over, you sleep on the floor and let him have the bed. Let him know how much this means to you….
And take everything to The Lord in Prayer…. He won’t leave you behind in this quest.
All the best!
(You lost me at “God despises sexual sins”. Sure he does. I’m sure the 96% of people who have had premarital sex are all going to hell. – EMK)
Victoria says
I love this blog! Thank you for sharing. The car comparison was great as well. im in the same situation, but I’m the girlfriend who was cut off by my boyfriend for “religious” reasons. It’s really hurts and sucks. I find myself hating him more and more everyday because of constant rejection.
Jim says
Yeah I feel like you could have answered this in a helpful and tactful manner, but avoided that at all costs, instead offering this girl no help whatsoever.
judy says
Nina 170 – your point of view is fine, as long as you weren’t having sex first. It is NOT godly to have sex first and then withdraw it. It is being a tease.
I’m sure that there are many men and women out there who would be very happy to have what is commonly called premarital sex and if that’s what they agree, that’s fine.
You have to make up your own mind about that, but it’s kind of mean to say, yeah, let’s have sex and then say, I want to be closer to God and that means we no longer have sex.
I would understand a man saying the hell with it all and leaving the woman. She is confused at the very least.
Jean says
Why would you write that it is “mean for a woman to decide that she no longer wants to have sex”? When we as humans start to respect women and their choices and stop making everything about a man and what he wants us to do? No matter what a woman’s reason is for stopping sex, saying that, “she is being mean”, is grossly unfair. What is it with you people in this country, always needing to side with men and their selfish sexual desires of needing to dominate women? Are we women brainless, insecure, low self esteem, or what? 1-12-13
None of you have the right to scold any woman for doing what she needs for her emotional, spiritual, or physical well being. God is definitely more important than a man and if that man has requests that separate you from your God, then you had better let that man go and run to another woman, if that is his desire. Let him go. Women will not die without sex and men won’t either. Sex is so overrated and definitely in girlfriend-boyfriend relationships. Men do not want us unless sex is on the menu. That’s let’s you women know right there, that it is not worth it for a woman to enter a relationship with a man.
Peter 51 says
Jean, As you mention God, read the First Book of Cornithians Chapter 7 verses 1-14. Also consider what the “with my body I thee worship”, which is in most Trinitarian Christian marriage services and a few others, implies. There is an obligation for married christians to have sex with each other, to keep the other party from immorality. Chastity is described as the better condition but if you cannot be chaste be married and vigorous in your sexual activity with mutually agreed “times of prayer” as occassional exemptions.
Lust is a biological urge. Hunger provokes eating. Without lust we won’t reproduce. Having sex denied in a marriage is a route to depression. In a dating relationship, not offering sex is a good commitment test of the other party.
If some one has already covered Corinthians and the marriage service, apologies. I haven’t gone through the whole thread.
Jean says
Peter, I did not write about denying sex in marriage. Go back and be careful as you read. Also are you implying that the only exemptions for no sex in marriage, should be during times of prayer? Did I read that right? If that is what you meant, are you implying that a woman should have sex, during her heavy menstrual cycle, right after uterine surgery, while she is in labor, while she has a disease, etc. Read all of the Bible and take notes so that you can be informed and recall specific points for discusssion about what women and men should and should not do.
Don’t try so to be an expert. We are all still learning. Only God has all of the answers. I trust in Him, not a human male.It is truly amazing how some men can quote Scriptures when it is time to blame, scold, and lecture women. We need to also read the Scriptures that tell men about lust, adultery, pride, and their other sins.. We all are sinners and have fallen short of the Glory of God. Sex is not important to any one human’s survival. A man on an uninhabited island, for a year, will survive without another to meet his sexual needs. 1-12-13
You wrote: “Without lust, we won’t produce.”
Without men getting their penises to ejaculate, there will be no baby. This is in the normal way. But egg and sperm can meet by artificial means in a lab and………….. without lust.
Jean says
Go for it Evan. See if you have the power to set me or anyone else straight. You can only give your opinion and then allow the reading audience to form theirs. Or, you can delete my comments. I will not be angry at you for either choice. 🙂
But, since you want to be facetious or mean, or whatever your emotion is, you need to be made aware that you are only a human male and your maleness, does not intimidate wise, strong women. You cannot change our views. Evan, women were not created with penises and that overwhelming need to thrust into the female’ s body cavity. Don’t try to make women be like men. We are not wired like you all are. Haven’t you read enough articles and comments from women about that? We are telling you all, but you will not listen. Women can adjust to a sexual life, where we sually do it to keep the man satisfied, since society beats it into our heads about your need for it. It really is an huge sacrifice for a woman to be in a sexual lifestyle. I could give you a list of the sacrifices women make, at a later comment.1-12-13
In the meantime, as I have written before, why not have a respectful dialogue to get solutions to this sex dilemma, or women will continue to “change their minds in the middle of the game”.
Peter 51 says
Jean,
I don’t seem to be able to reply to the reply so here’s a new comment.
I suspect that such circumstances as you describe are exactly what Paul had in mind by Times of Prayer. I am not a evangelical; I’m an extremely liberal Anglican but we had got to 170 pages of sex and religion without any specific religous references.
Yes test tube reproduction is an available technology but it’s hardly human unless it’s the last option. I don’t think that it amounts to chastity. It acheives the results of lust.
starthrower68 says
My view is very unpopular, even derided in current culture, but since I don’t expect a man to wait until marriage but I cannot compromise my faith and what I believe the word of God says, I look at it as taking up my cross to follow Jesus. Again, not popular but I have to live with me and my conscience, and nobody else.
Lulu says
I’ve seen this abstinence until marriage thing result in some very sad situations. Having been told not to date until I was 18 and still being relatively conservative, I believe in living and having sex with your partner as early as you both feel comfortable. That can take a long time, but I’ve seen the disastrous effects of friends waiting until marriage, and it’s one big false dream. Not for all, but for some.
If you choose to do anything, the hard part is knowing that it is the right thing for you and not something taught or pressured.
Natsume says
1.) No woman or man should ever have to justify why he/she does not want sex. A person is not ever obligated to always give another person unconditional access to his/her body even if married.
2.) People can change their minds. New information molds new ideas and informs their opinions. It does not mean we change at our core but may try to make changes in how we approach life….and that is ok. That is the whole process of living and maturing. That being said, Yasmin, you need to do a couple of things:
-Do not “read into” his words. If he says he is fine with it, then take him as a man of his word and do not allow yourself to feel emotionally coacred into having sex again when you promised yourself not to. He should respect your right to say “no” and make decisions about your body. If he looks elsewhere because “his needs are not being met” then you are better off finding someone else who is willing to allow you to grow and grow with and support your choices because he respects your choices even if he does not like them. In the meantime, give the guy the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word that he is “fine with it.” If he cheats, it means he is a liar. If he breaks up with you, it means it was a compromise he was not willing to make. If he sticks with you without emotionally “punishing” you for your choice or trying to emotionally coarce you, it is a testament to his respect for you and willingness to make things work. But if you keep assuming that he is saying “he is fine with it” to appease you then you are not taking him seriously.
-if your revelation is partially due to dissatisfaction with the sex or feeling you went too quickly into a sexual relationship, then you need to communicate that to him and perhaps speak to an expert about how to work on a healthier emotional relationship.
Anyway, that is my 2 cents.
Richard says
Yasmin.
You are about to find out what is more important to your boyfriend. You, or sex. If he truly loves you and wants a relationship with you, then, while it may be difficult for him, but if he loves you, he will make the hard choice and respect your values, because that’s what someone does when they truly love someone. If sex is more important to him, then he won’t care who he gets sex from and your relationship with him will be over. Either way, you are going to learn a lot about the character of your boyfriend.
Jade says
PAUL, SO WELL SAID! Thank you for being an upstanding man! I wish there were many more.
SHAKI says
Guys and ladies this is ment to help this young lady not argue. I understand both points of views girl and I say talk to him see if he is will to do this with yu because if he is not it wont work because he will continue to want sex and persuade u to give it to him or he will cheat, u r worth it and normally when u change ur life for god who ever ur god is u cant take people with u
Jean says
I am glad that there are females in the world, who are not easliy led, have their own minds, and support other females when they have strong convictions as men have. Many females in this country, in this world, and here on this site, tear other females down to bits, in order to follow man-made doctrines, to eem “cool”and so that they will be accepted by their man and other males. I don’t need a males’ acceptance. I have my own opinions and feelings.
With that being said, sex is a strong desire for males and I assume some females as well. But for many single and married females too, sex is not a want, a desire, and not satisfying for whatever reason. But the married females, realize that sex is part of the marriage and so will need to do what is supposed to be done for their husbands.
But people, we must not blame or scold single females for choosing to not have sex, just as we do not scold or blame single men for their choosing to play the field and choosing to hold off on marriage. It is not right to scold one gender, when we do not scold the other gender.
We MUST stop the way we treat females for their choices, while not excusing males with such sayings as”boys will be boys”, or “men will be men.” This is so sexist.
Haven’t you all figured out yet, that males and females are so different physically and emotionally? Please respect females’ choices, because you all support male’s choices. Men stick up for each other. Females need to stop being stupid and gullible for males and attacking each other for our choices.
Abu Bakar Hasnath says
May peace be upon you
I really support your point of view.
Twinkle says
A man needs sex, and the good guys here wants women to believe that they are in it not just for sex. Women on the other hand needs to feel ‘safe’ – ranging from loyalty, commitment, avoiding sexual diseases, torn with being judged by religious people for having premarital sex (men don’t get judged as bad- you know this is true),.. etc etc
From a female point of view, even if she says she enjoys the sex etc but really, it is more straining for her to be in intimacy with a man who just won’t think marriage is, well, as important as sex.
Idk, I guess you won’t really understand it if you’re a man. Women get older and the older she gets the less attractive she becomes, generally speaking, the less men wants her in a serious way, generally speaking,… while men can still have good looking women, able, capable, smart etc to have a serious relationships with.
Idk, my mind is all over the place atm coz I’m hvg a fever so my points may not make tht much sense but the point tht i actually want to make at the end of the day is.. women has more to loose than men, so so so much more to loose when they devote themselves in a long term relationship (that goes on forever and then what?) than men. Time and age works against women.
Yet at the same time it is not as easy for women to just refuse or ignore a man who likes her and she, the same. We are all adults and you and I know that’s not easy. But at the same time, due to biological, sociological etc etc prejudice factors.. it is always a losing battle /end for women to be in a long term relationship (and then what)?
Men, why not make it simple. If you like the girl, put a ring on it. Get to know her, and if sex is important to you) of course it is), you can already gauge how her physical is when u look at her (not entirely correct, but u get some idea). Like what u see? Great. Like how she thinks, acts, behaves, etc? Great. Now ask her to marry you.
Simple! Solves it for both men and women needs.
Now u may say what about divorce? Really, it is a losing thing for men, but just please think for a bit, no matter how much you lose, a woman will still always lose more (talking in a situation where all things are equal, for example). I do not want to get into details as it will be long, but again, the losing part for women will be in terms of looks, the possibility of getting married again and if so; to a good catch and not just anyone who will accept her ‘lack’ in whatever terms (usually physical), etc etc etc
Be a gentleman. Take that risk. Be her Knight. Fight for her and be responsible for her, whether or not it ends in a break up. Marry her.
You makes complain it is so hard for men to get married, please take some time to think it is really even harder for women in either or any way-whether in a pre-marital relationship, marital relationship..
Just that the only ‘redemption’ so to speak (can’t think of a better word to use atm), is for a woman to be in a marriage. She will still have tht risk of being cheated, dumped, etc, but she will have a better peace of mind to fully go all out aand give herself to her man.
Sigh. I think i woke up on the wrong side of bed. I feel so hopeless 🙁
Karmic Equation says
“Men, why not make it simple. If you like the girl, put a ring on it.”
That solves the problem for women. It doesn’t solve any problems for men.
Nice thought. But unrealistic.
Henriette says
I’m not even sure it solves the problem for women. Or, at least, not for all women.
I suspect that plenty of us ladies have received proposals of marriage, but if they came from men who lacked what Evan refers to as “character,” we’ve still got problems.
Jenn says
Nobody NEEDS to have sex. You NEED to eat, you NEED to sleep, but you will not die if you don’t have sex for a while.
Jennifer says
Think its funny how some of you Think… sure sex is important and its good to wait a while in The beginning but your man still has needs and to cut hem of for your own selfish ideas??! If your not going to satisfy him in sure someone else would be happy to. If you love someone why put them threw misorey???
If my man did that 2 me id leave his sorry ass!
Safia says
Hi,
i personally feel Yasmin is a little hypocritical. I’m virgin myself as I am a Muslim and believe in after marriage but considering Yasmin gave her virginity up and has been having physical contact for the passed 10months I don’t see how not having it would change. She’s already done the bad deed, everyone already has knowledge on their religion and what God does not allow. So why do it and then regret it?!
Jean says
Dang it, haven’t you heard of, “breaking the habit?” Also, have you ever done something wrong and then realized that you should not have done the thing and so, decided to not do it again? That is not what hypocritical is. She realized her mistakes.
Why do we scold women so hard. Men rape, beat women, cheat, and we dont scold them, but we scold the female. This is a sexist world.
Bee says
Jean, this has nothing to do with it being a woman or not respecting womens’ choices. I am a woman and my boyfriend just did this to me and it is causing problems in our relationship as well. Physical intimacy is important to many people in a relationship, not just men. By withdrawing sex from me after a year of being intimate, I feel rejected and resentful. I wonder why my boyfriend is really doing this. Maybe he has doubts about me or our relationship, and he is turning to his faith instead of communicating with me about them? It has presented so much doubt and resentment that was not previously in our relationship. Prior to meeting me he was not celibate with other partners so this seems arbitrary and shows a flakiness of personality I don’t care for. If our relationship fails it won’t be bacause I can’t abstain from sex and don’t love my boyfriend but because his unilateral, arbitrary decision making left me with resentment toward him.
Jean says
You all need to learn what the definition of “selfish” is. It generally means that the person is thinking only of their own needs, wants, and what is satisfying for them. Yasmin, is not selfish. She had been thinking about her boyfriend in the first part of the relationship, as she gave him the sex he wanted, while she was probably suffering in silence, very uncomfortable and unhappy about it, which is how MANY of us females tend to do. 5-8-14
I was like many gullible and low self esteem young females are and did the same thing with my boyfriend, all the while I hated it. Females have got to open their eyes and learn some sense and love themselves and stop allowing man made doctrines to persuade them to lay down with boyfriends, just to please him. As a single female, I really was not that into sex. I did it under pressure. As the one who has the vagina, I had so much to lose by having premarital sex. There was, my going against my religious convictions about what my God said to not do, the threat of pregnancy, disrespect from my boyfriend, getting a smelly vagina from constant sex, uncomfortable positions females get in during sex, the threat of my boyfriend getting bored from regular sex with me, the threat of sexually transmitted diseases that I knew were possible because most males will lay their penises anywhere they get the opportunity, while I knew I was only with him, and the list goes on.
It seems that women suffer more from premarital sex than men and men reap the benefit of release. Females don’t have the build up of sexual tension, and that urge to relaease often. So, you males, men and boys, stop trying to make females be like you all, just like you all do not want us females to change you and try to make you like females. We do not have penises. We have vaginas that do not get erect. Get over yourselves and shut up. Females get tired of these articles that men and women scold and belittle females with. It is not fair.
Now tell me that the woman is selfush when she avoids sex. Yo all are xrazy
Jenn says
Jean, I agree that wanting to save sex for marriage isn’t selfish. It is a difficult concept for most people to grasp these days, but choosing to save sex for marriage is actually the best thing you can do to honor your future husband or wife. Sure, her boyfriend wouldn’t agree, but that’s the way the cookie crumbles! He can either choose to continue to build a meaningful, committed relationship with her that could lead to a more mutually gratifying sexual relationship once they’re married. Or he can choose to put his own needs ahead of what’s best for the relationship and bail. But somehow I don’t think he’ll be any happier or more fulfilled in the long run. A man of character would appreciate her choice, even if he didn’t understand it or originally want it to be that way. On the other hand, I see why it would be hard for him to accept her choice.
Could be my girl says
My girlfriend has decided to do the same thing, the way she uses God to defend her point is an unfair battle. She makes It something that can’t be challenged. I would leave her but I love her I would cheat but I love her. She is ready to get married now after a little more then a year but I’m thinking about 5 more years min. to be safe. With that being the case, honestly makes life look bleak… Not because that’s all I care about is sex but because idk how long I can take it. I find myself becoming overwhelmingly sad about it. Never heard about the whole sex carrot on a string but that’s what I feel like is happening. With me being a guy I don’t know what words to say so she can understand how I feel, because I have tried but it falls on death ears to a person that is a debater by birth.
Jenn says
Why be 5 years? That’s an awfully long time to be in a relationship and not know whether you want to be married to someone or not. If you’re sad, it’s only because you are thinking about relationships more in terms of what you get out of it more than what you can put
Jenn says
Put into it. If you can put your own selfish, baser urges aside to invest more of your mental and spiritual energy into the relationship, you might find that it’s worth it to delay gratification.
Iridium_moon says
What a terribly sad tale.
Sex is just a normal part of life. It’s no big deal. Really.
In fact, once one begins to understand evolutionary biology, sex is possibly the reason for everything and quite possibly the answer, in one way or another, to every human question ever asked.
That some commenters have suggested that women don’t really enjoy sex and that it’s all about the men, leaves me genuinely shocked. I am stunned that anyone can be so ignorant, or brainwashed, or somehow damaged, to really think like that. It goes against all evidence of biology, neurochemistry and anatomy.
In my experience women adore sex, and are certainly capable of enjoying more of it, for longer, than most men are!
Then came all the hundreds of religions (with each one, through the millennia, promoting itself as the one true version): ridiculous fairy-stories dreamt up – always by men – to control and suppress others, particularly women. I wonder why?
Yasmin, you are clearly an intelligent woman, yet you say you intend to give up sex with the real man you have in front of you, who you can see and touch, for the benefit of what you describe as the ‘man above’, who you can’t.
Right.
Sex can be a celebration of this wonderful one life we have. Every moment of our short stay on this ridiculous planet is deeply precious. There is transcendental beauty out there: in nature, in art, in science, in love, in food, in parenthood, and in the people who touch our lives.
If ever you are minded to listen to a stranger on the internet I implore you to listen to this: don’t let absurd, made-up rubbish (ie ALL religions) cause you to waste a moment of this wonderful life. Your time will not come again.
starthrower68 says
There are an awful lot of people in the world coming to know a Savior who are willing to suffer and die for “made up rubbish”. If there’s nothing to it, seems to me there wouldn’t be such ardent resistance to it, either. I would expect to be considered a simple minded fool for my beliefs, but there are some very learned, highly intelligent people who do believe.
Mark Ribbands says
<< … awful lot of people … willing to suffer and die for “made up rubbish”. >>
Yes, that’s EXACTLY the problem!
One has only to look at recent news to see that. Only the most committed and true believers, who really, genuinely, believe one of the Abrahamic religions, become suicide bombers or behead aid workers: all for the greater Glory of God.
starthrower68 says
Are Christians doing that? We’re not fans of Westborough Baptist or lone gunman in abortion clinics either and speak out against them. We even acknowledge that if the church were doing a better job loving others, there might not be so many atheists. You have the free will to think it’s hogwash as you please, but for those with a deep genuine faith, they aren’t likely to change their hearts and minds because secular culture thinks they should.
Evan Marc Katz says
“For those with a deep genuine faith, they aren’t likely to change their hearts and minds”
And vice versa. Religious people seem to forget atheists aren’t likely to change their minds, and are no less moral than those who believe in a higher power. Failure to accept and understand this is a collective religious blind spot.
starthrower68 says
Btw, I’d say my faith runs pretty deep, although I have room for growth and I have not “arrived”; I attend church 2-3 times a week, more if there is something going on. But oddly enough, I have no desire to strap on a bomb and blow anyone up, nor does anyone in my church that I’m aware of. I don’t know any Christians who want to do that. But I can see how obeying a God who say love one another and share the Gospel would be confused for terrorists in an age where good is bad and bad is good. Sounds about right. 😉
Mark Ribbands says
@Evan
“Religious people seem to forget atheists aren’t likely to change their minds, … Failure to accept and understand this is a collective religious blind spot.”
I remain unconvinced that religious people really believe they can convert a committed atheist (ie usually an intelligent person who has gained his information about how the world works from more that ONE book) but more likely that their church requires evangelical activity as part of their particular creed. Therefore, shouting at Richard Dawkins gains them points; presumably once they have enough of which they can turn left after the gates of heaven, rather than rough it in Cattle Class with all the other believers who didn’t quite believe enough.
“… atheists aren’t likely to change their minds, and are no less moral than those who believe in a higher power. … ”
It depends. I don’t believe that atheists or believers are necessarily any more or less moral than each other.
What I do believe though is that anyone who needs a stupid old book to tell them things like ‘do not kill’, ‘do not steal’, ‘be nice to other people’ and other divine instruction for what are usually innate human characteristics, has a serious moral deficiency.
Mark Ribbands says
@ Starthrower
“But I can see how obeying a God who says love one another and share the Gospel …”
If you’re a nice person, starthrower, and I’ll assume that you are, do you really need a perceived ‘God’ to tell you to ‘love one another’? Is that not a self-evident part of being human?
Tell me, did you REALLY need an old book to tell you that? Was it like you were a horrible person, then heard a preacher spouting the words of Jesus, and you suddenly thought ‘Oh, silly me, I’d never thought of that, I’ll be nice to people from now on.’?
(And then he probably in some way asked for money for these gems of wisdom. Funny that.)
One thing I also find so offensive about religion is that it allows horrible people to continue to be horrible; but that’s OK because they can then ask for forgiveness. Atheists have no such get-out. We take our sins to the grave.
Have you really read the bible? If there’s one book in the world that will cause a thinking person to reject religion, it’s not ‘The God Delusion’, it’s the Holy Bible (or the Koran). It describes a God who is outstanding in His capricious depravity. It’s one of the foulest works of fiction ever written. That said, in its King James version it’s occasionally an outstanding work of literature, but as a guide to morals? I don’t think so. I personally couldn’t keep up with all the murdering I’d be supposed to do. It would feel innately wrong.
SparklingEmerald says
Starthrower said, “Are Christians doing that? We’re not fans of Westborough Baptist or lone gunman in abortion clinics either and speak out against them. We even acknowledge that if the church were doing a better job loving others, there might not be so many atheists.”
ST – You seem like a genuinely nice person, and I enjoy reading most of your posts, but this attitude from believers, while perhaps well meaning, comes off as very condescending. There is an underlying assumption that atheists/agnostics (and non-Christians, and people who are the “wrong” kind of Christian) are only what they are because they are “angry” at God, or that Christians were mean to them. No possibility seems to be given to the idea that atheists/agnostics came to the conclusions that they did through rational thinking. Oh no, they are just bitter disaffected people, and if someone just gave them enough love, they would start believing in God & Jesus.
The whole “be nice to people as a way of witnessing for Christ ” really implies that if someone sees a Christian behaving nicely and being happy, that all those poor unsaved atheists, agnostics, Buddhist, Jews, etc. will just somehow see the light, drop to their knees and shout “Praise be to Jesus”.
I see people being nice, loving and happy on a daily basis. Some are devout Christians, some are Heathens like me, some are Jews, I even have a friend from India who is Jain, who is very nice. I see nice Buddhists and atheists, etc. I also see people who aren’t so nice across the faith spectrum. I don’t change my religion every time I see a person who seems happy, loving and acts nice. I don’t condemn all Christians, Buddhists, atheist etc. when I see one of their members acting horribly.
Nor do I expect anyone to become a Heathen because they see me doing charitable work, being kind & loving to those around me, or acting happy and positive. And in my not so nice moments, I don’t think that should be a license to tar and feather all Heathens.
More Christians doing a better job of loving mankind isn’t going to mean fewer atheists, but it will make the world a nicer safer place, just as more people of ALL beliefs doing a “better job loving others” will.
starthrower68 says
I think that those who disagree with Christians, and other religions, are going to think of me as they will. It’s all good. Since I’m free from me, I’m free from you too. I’m not mad or angry at any of you. If you want to think of me as having serious moral deficiencies because I follow an old book, well, that’s not on me. Peace 😃
Jean says
“It’s no big deal” What?? It is a big deal for an innocent young and vulnerable female who has been coerced into sex by her boyfriend. For a female sex is all about her boyfriend’s release. She has no need for any release! She is trying to please him, not herself. Females DO NOT have a need to release any dog goned thing.
When females act as if they are interested in sex, it is really them being interested in the closeness to their guy, the touching, hugging, kissing, etc. Yes, for a female, there is a thrill and it feels good, but honey darling, we females do not think about or want sex the way you all do. Why is this sad to you? Is it sad for you a male, because you want women to be robots and think and feel about sex like you all. Sorry, females can live without sex. We are the way we are.
.
Evan Marc Katz says
She wasn’t coerced. She had sex for 10 months. She changed her mind. She will likely lose her boyfriend because of it. If she’s comfortable with that, that’s her decision.
starthrower68 says
NopeI agree, atheists aren’t likely to change their minds. But I recognize I’m not in control of that anyway. ☺
starthrower68 says
I will add that I do appreciate your willingness to allow the dialogue. 😊
Iridium_moon says
Hello Jean. What an extraordinary response! I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are a human female, and not some hairy internet-goblin, living in a remote Norwegian forest un