Both Men and Women Prefer Dating Younger

Both Men and Women Prefer Dating Younger

Add this to the annals of studies that confirm things we already know anecdotally.

A piece in Time Magazine cites numbers from the Are You Interested Facebook app that concludes that, among 35,942 users ages 30 to 49, a woman was five times more likely to show interest in a man who was five years her junior, rather than one who was five years older.

Men’s preferences are shaped not just by looks but by fertility, which is why many have 35 as a cutoff.

Similarly, among 26,434 men ages 30 to 49, 42% wouldn’t even consider a woman if she was older than him. However, if contacted by an older woman, men wouldn’t necessarily turn her down. The data shows that a man is only 22% less likely to respond to an older woman than a younger woman if she initiates contact.

This is the exact same observation I make in Finding the One Online. Namely, that if you look at a typical 40 year old man’s search preferences, it will generally read 27-35. And if you look at a typical 40 year old woman’s search preferences, it’ll generally read 35-45. However, men’s preferences are shaped not just by looks but by fertility, which is why many have 35 as a cutoff. And while women will write 35-45, they will almost always prefer a man her age or younger.

There are WAY too many exceptions to this for us to fight about, so please, let’s not. Let’s just agree that women, like men, prefer dating younger, that men are receptive to emails from all sorts of women, and that both genders are equally driven by youth and beauty. The difference is that women also care about money, career, education and height, which makes their dating pools shrink proportionately.

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  1. 151

    Karl # 129
    I personally do not think that 5-7 years is a big gap but then I am 51.  Most of the men I find interesting on Match when I “window shop” (my profile is hidden) are typically 4-8 years older than me.  But as I said I am 51.  When I was 28, 30, 33, or 35 I would not have hesitated to date someone 39.  But Karl, none of my friends would have dated someone 5 or more years older.  I really don’t see why because 5 to 7 years does not seem like a lot to me.
    I don’t think you are wrong to want what you want.  I am not going to tell you to widen the net or that if you met a woman in real life you probably wouldn’t be able to guess her age if she took care of herself.  And frankly I don’t care if you want to date younger because you want kids someday and feel that is the only way you will have them or if it is just because you want to date in that age group.  Neither reason makes you wrong.  That is what you want.  
    The thing is that on line is all about perception.  If you put that you only want women 25 – 34 and your age is 39 there will be a certain perception of you that will not be flattering.  I am not saying that they are right or fair but they will perceive you a certain way.  I do know this because I am a woman and I know many women and we talk.
    I had a friend talking to me about his frustration with dating on line and he wanted some suggestions.  I asked him his age range.  He told me 45-51.  He is 55.  Now is that age range unrealistic?  NO.  Is it creepy?  NO.  But I told him how it was perceived by women.  I told him that he in no way had to date a woman he wasn’t attracted to but if he wanted a more favorable opinion he should adjust his age range.  He did, it is now 45-60.  Does this mean he will date someone 60?  Probably not but we did talk about him expanding his dating pool by CONSIDERING women who were older even if only a year or two.
    Karl, I am not telling you to date older or even date women your age.  If you are not interested in expanding your dating pool so be it, for all I know your dating pool could already be the size of Lake Erie.  But if you contact some 31 year old woman who has her age preference 28 – 34 she is unlikely to respond favorably to you regardless of whether you or I think the age difference is no big deal.  That being said it can’t hurt to try… well it might hurt a little.  And who knows there may be some 28 year old out there with your name on her. 🙂
    Soulsister # 134
    I would rather open up my options and then filter down my opportunities, than not have the opportunity in the first place because I threw away the option.”
    Well said!!!!
    Karl R # 142
    When my wife and I started dating, she commented that she had only dated one man in the previous twenty years that wasn’t younger than her.  Every other man had ben two to fourteen years younger.
    Should I have avoided dating my wife at her age because she was unlikely to date a man who was her age?
    Your married and I assume happily, so I would say no I do not think you should not have dated her because she mentioned that she almost exclusively dated younger guys.  (did that sentence make sense?  – too many negatives.)  YES, of course you should have dated her.
    My point is that there is a perception that is created and though I try not to judge I find it hard not to.  That doesn’t make me bad, just human.  On line is about perception.  I was commenting on the perception it creates.  Not for every single woman, but for many of them.  Now right or wrong, fair or not that is how many women will see it.  And since I am a woman I would know.
    Meeting in real life is different than meeting on line.  None of us wear signs around our necks stating our age, income, height, or the preferences for such.  It is organic.  There isn’t 600 other men and women being considered, weighed,  and compared to you or the one you are meeting.
    So it IS about perception and the illusion that we know something about these strangers who have posted their profile.
    I love what Soulsister wrote in # 134 and I am going to quote her again, “I would rather open up my options and then filter down my opportunities, than not have the opportunity in the first place because I threw away the option.”
    Oh and I do prefer dating older guys.
    (BTW your wife is darling, I don’t either one of you traded down.)
    @ Tom10 # 147
    Your 29???  Tom you come across much more mature and aware than your age would suggest.  
    @ Marymary # 149
    Liam Neeson… oh, my!!! Yummy!  (Sorry I was having a moment there.)  Even with out money and fame… wow!  (okay moment is over.)
    Being that I like older men this bodes well for me.
    Soulsister #150
    Thank you.  That is what I was trying to say.  I love to “window shop” on Match, it keeps me motivated.  There is one particular man that stand out for me.  He is 57 and his preferred age range is 40 – 65.  That alone makes his appeal jump WAY up.  

  2. 152

    Love the post Karl R. 🙂

  3. 153
    Karl R

    Karmic Equation asked: (#144)
    “Isn’t this a paradox? If I’m pursuing OLDER to increase finding an attractive partner, then how am I satisfying my desire to date younger? Only one person in this equation is having their preference satisfied. And it isn’t me.”
    It’s not a paradox. It’s a trade-off. Would you rather have someone more attractive, or someone younger? (Obviously you’d rather have someone who is more attractive and younger … but then there’s typically a different trade-off … frequently involving personality or values.)
    You don’t have just one preference. (Heck, if your only preference is for someone younger, you should easily be able to get someone as young as you could possibly want.) Figure out which preference matters the most, and pursue it the hardest.
    marymary (#149) summed it up fairly nicely. Because “younger” is a very common preference, it’s easy to do better overall by compromising on that preference.
    Karmic Equation said: (#144)
    “Nerdy-cute dudes who can dance are probably in high demand. Shoot, any dude who can dance like that are probably in high demand. So you had two pluses going for you. You’re not even the ‘average’ dude, dude.”
    Nobody is average.
    Almost everyone has something that they’re passionate about. Almost everyone has something that they’re highly proficient at. There probably is a niche of men/women who are attracted to them for that reason.
    But it’s a supply and demand thing. I had a coworker who won national air-hockey championships. His passion and proficiency for air-hockey put him at the top of his niche. However, there aren’t many women who are interested in champion air-hockey players. It’s a male-dominated pastime. For most women, he was modestly above-average education and income, and that was about it.
    There are women who are into nerdy-cute dancers. There are more women who are into athletic/ripped/studly dancers. There are women who are into nerdy, but aren’t into dancing. There are women who aren’t into nerdy or dancing…. So I either had two pluses, a plus and a minus, one plus, or one minus, all depending on which woman I was approaching.
    Nobody is average. But you may not see their pluses as being important enough (to you) to count.
    Karmic Equation asked: (#144)
    “I imagine that when you dated younger, those women were also dancers?”
    Of the three I mentioned, the second and third were dancers. Dancers seem to date across age spreads more frequently (in both directions) than non-dancers. But I have dated a few other non-dancers who were five or more years younger (just not during that particular year).

  4. 154

    Soulsister #134
    Fantastic post!
    Any young woman considering marrying a much older man should read this. 

  5. 155
    Sparkling Emerald

    Soulsister wrote in # 134 ,I would rather open up my options and then filter down my opportunities, than not have the opportunity in the first place because I threw away the option.”
    Bravo !
    Smartest thing I’ve read in a long time.  I am off all dating sites at the moment.  I’m seeing my post divorce re-bound boyfriend again (I guess that makes him boomerang boyfriend now) but if things don’t work out with us, and when my divorce becomes final, I might go back online. 
    I NEVER initiated contact (except passively perhaps by viewing profiles and ONCE, by putting one of my matches on my fave list) and I hestiate to put much in my preferences.  Really, to put an age cut-off seems so arbitrary.  If I want to date 55-65, am I eliminating a FANTASTIC 66 year old ?  So on some things I just go OVER what I consider my max comfort level so I can do as Soul Sister says and open my options, then filter down.
    It is interesting to read how people are judged for their preferences online.  I never really thought about it, except that I listed so few criteria I worry about coming off as desparate.  (age range of 20 years, plus or minus 10 of my age, within 50 miles of my zip)  Leaving height blank was not an option, so I picked the lowest and highest in the drop down boxes, and left income, politics and religion blank in my preferences.  Smoking is a no way.    Sometimes I wonder if by having so few preferences listed  if some guy looked at my profile and thought “Hmmmmmm, she certainly doesn’t have many standards, looks like she will date anyone with a pulse”.  But if I put in some more selection criteria to look discriminating, I could eliminate someone wonderful, because I was to picky.
    Since I don’t initiate contact online, I really don’t look at the preferences of those who contact me.  If I notice that I am slightly out of their age or height range, I consider that to be a quasi-compliment, they saw something in my profile and decided to contact me, even if I was a year or two older than their stated preference or a tad too short.  I look to make sure they have “No Way” under smoking  (I have stopped asking when they list “I’ll tell you later”) and that they aren’t to far away.  Mostly I read their narrative profile to get a general tone and feel for the person.  If I see a lot of negativity such as “I DON”T want this, and if you are like that then DON’T bother writing me”, then I delete.  Anything overtly sexual in the profile or e-mail, get’s deleted.  No picture, gets deleted.  And yes, I look at the picture, if I can’t see my self EVER being attracted, it gets deleted.  If I see a look I definetly like or could POSSIBLY like, their profile seems pretty good and the e-mail shows that they actually read my profile, then I respond. 
    I realize I could open up my options if I initiated contact online, but I would always wonder if he really liked me.  If a guy contacts me, then at least I know he was initially attracted to me. 

  6. 156
    Karl T

    Hi Lia #157,
    Thanks for your reply.  Yes, I understand what you are saying and as is usual, you make much logical sense.  I appreciate your repsonse. 
    I did have a laugh at one attractive girl I somewhat know.  She is 29 and considers a guy my age to be old…..yet she dated a 22 year old guy who I know (and he is one of the most immature 22 year old guys).  This was when I was 38, so 9 years older was old to her, but she dated a guy 7 years younger and saw no problem with it.  LOL….
    Another girl I dated who was 28 when I was 34 (6 years younger) who I really had a crush on, but ended up going back to an ex of 11 years.  Well, now she is 33 and has been dating a new guy who is 25 (8 years younger).  She met him when she was 31 and he was 23.  I have to laugh because I know the guy through a friend and he is always trying to hit on other girls.  Good luck to her!!!

  7. 157

    @Tom # 147:  You seem like a genuinely kind person (Of course, you are Irish, like me).  You have a way of stating your preferences in a way which does not make women outside your dating parameters feel devalued. It is much appreciated.  I have no doubt that when you are ready, you will find a wonderful lady with whom to share your life.  Many men could learn from you and your approach.  You see, we do not so much mind it when men do not want us as when they are so nasty about it and make us feel guilty for….gasp….aging.

  8. 158

    @Karl R # 142:  As usual, you are spot on.  And both you and your wife are very attractive.  Yes, I would rather date a man who is in good shape even if he is not my age.
    Interesting anecdote.  I met the husband of a co-worker recently.  He was 64, lively, vital, attractive, and kind.  I thought, yes, I would date him if he were single.  Then I found out his wife is 23 years younger than him.  I am “only” 12 years younger than him.  Man, we women can’t win!

  9. 159

    Most of the time I don’t care about my age.  I feel good about who I am as a person and a woman.  Most of the dissatisfaction I feel is with how I have treated my body for the past three years.  That is something I am turning around much quicker than I expected.  In less than two months I should be back in my “skinny clothes”.
    I was looking on line and read an article about why men pursue younger women.  It is not as if there was much of anything new in the article, but with that and comments here, suddenly I feel so disheartened.  I guess I didn’t realize how much this got under my skin.
    You know the saying, “Ignorance is bliss.”  I have been ignorant.  I thought that when it came down to it that who I was, that I was kind, saw the good in others, that I live my life with integrity that that was going to mean something to someone that I would have a partner someday.  
    It doesn’t really matter that I get my body in shape and that I am a good person.  I list that number… 51 and my worth is… less?  The thing is I don’t care if a man makes a lot of money, I don’t care if he has a full head of hair or if he is as bald as an egg, I don’t care if he is 5’ 6” or 6’ 5”, I don’t care if he carries a little extra weight, I don’t care if he as a high school diploma or a PhD.  But I do care if he is dating me because he has realized that he can’t have what he really wants… 25 or 30 year old.  I really don’t want to be the woman of last resort.  I feel very sad about that.

  10. 160
    Sparkling Emerald

    Lia 165
       Your entire post could have been written by  me.  I know EXACTLY how you feel.

  11. 161
    Karl S

    @Sparkling Emerald

    I never really thought about it, except that I listed so few criteria I worry about coming off as desperate.

    As someone who’s been using online dating as the primary way to meet women for years, when I see a profile with most criteria for their ideal partner left blank it gives me the impression that they’re open minded about who they’d like to meet and not super-fussy. I’m actually more inclined to message them, because maybe I won’t have to tick all the little boxes just to get a reply.

  12. 162

    @Lia 165
    Dear Lia,
    I always read your posts with great pleasure, you are among the kindest people on this blog. You have had great difficulties in your life, and you seem to be very wise and sensible in how you tell your life story.
    What you wrote now really breaks my heart. I agree, age is more unkind to women than it is to men. My best friend’s husband (she and he are in their 40s), divorced her over a woman who was 24.  I sufferend through this divorce like it was my own, I think it triggered a mid-life crisis in me as well, and I have been thinking a lot how my looks and vitality will be fading, with every next day.
    In spite of all this (or because of all this?)  you have a duty to yourself to continue taking great care of yourself (your body and your soul) in the best possible way. There are no excuses to not get back to your skinny clothes – if that is your own sign of phisical well being.
    Now – the other thing is – there is initial attraction (based strongly on physicall qualities, and yes, age). But then – to move beyond that to dating – the man certainly has to develop feelings to you, and to continue dating you long term – he needs to have the love chemicals in his brain.  Trust me on this one, men do not date women as a last resort, they are much less dependent on having a relationship for their emotional well being than women.  If he is unattracted/seeing you as a last resort, he would rather be alone, and not dating you, and he will free up the space for you to find someone who will be truly attracted.
    Relationships are way more complex than looks and age. To give you some more inspiration, my friend and her husband were divorced for about 1.5 years. In this time she worked hard on her getting in great shape, she was always kind to him, and made sure he continued to have a good interaction with their children. He started spending more and more time with them, and with her, and eventually moved back with them.  Three weeks ago he proposed to her a second time, and last week their re-married. Nobody knows what happened to the 24 year-old, but we really shall not worry about her, given the huge oppotunities her age supposes.

  13. 163

    Thanks Lia and Aisling (I wondered if you might be Irish too because of your name).
    It might be no harm to remember:
    – Different men have different age preferences (think Evan and Karl R). Many men here have written that they prefer their own age or older.
    – Different men place more emphasis on other criteria like empathy, intelligence, being articulate etc. (think Evan and Karl R)
    – Personality, kindness, intelligence, humour and femininity will always matter when hooking a man emotionally – which is what makes him want to stay. It is impossible to read your messages without empathizing and feeling drawn to your personalities.
    – Due to the nature of blogs and dating sites, the importance of one or two specific criteria probably get highlighted disproportionally to their real importance – real life judgement involves collating dozens of cues and criteria together to form a fuller picture.
    – As Julia noted; men get older too, which changes us and our perspective on life.
    “I thought that when it came down to it that who I was, that I was kind, saw the good in others, that I life with integrity that that was going to mean something to someone”
    It will mean something to someone – a great deal. I hope you don’t lose these great characteristics and remain who you are.
    Aisling I admire the way you remain you have decided to remain positive when feeling down. It’s something I always have to work on myself.
    “You see, we do not so much mind it when men do not want us when they are so nasty about it”
    Yes I cringe at nasty messages too – I just remind myself that those who lash out are obviously hurting from rejection themselves and just haven’t learnt how to deal with this emotion yet.

  14. 164
    Little Wing

    My, this thread is has been all kinds of interesting! Shall we try an experiment? Run to your online profile and update it to reflect the criteria of: 10 years OLDER than you AND 10 years YOUNGER than you. You know have a licence to play! Observe what happens and report. GO!

  15. 165

    Challenge accepted, @Little Wing 170.  Who else is “in?”

  16. 166

    @Little Wing-if I were single there is NO WAY I would update it to reflect dating 10 years younger. Dating a 22 year old would be my worst nightmare! If I am ever single again (and that might be the case sooner than later) I will consider lowering my age range to 5 years younger and 10 years older. The way it was before I had it at 2 years younger and 9 years older 29-40.
    @Tom10 well you actually sound quite emotionally mature for a 29 year old and I can guarantee you there are women in your age range with the maturity that you desire as well as youth and good looks.
    @Lia #165
    There is no way an emotionally mature man who is in a good space mentally, who is in his 50s would really want to date a woman in her twenties. You don’t want those men so don’t get sad about the loss of them. I can imagine that if my parents were somehow divorced, and my father was healthy he would be dating women his own age because he’s a decent man and would probably be grossed out at the idea of dating women younger than his children!

  17. 167

    I feel like I should point out the fact that the reason Karl R was able to be so flexible w.r.t. his wife’s age is the fact that he does not want children, unlike Karl T (leaving aside the argument that perhaps Karl T shouldn’t have waited so long).

  18. 168

    @ Sparkling Emerald # 166
    I know you get it.  You’re my sister from another mother. 🙂 
    @ kiki
    Thank you for your kind words. 
    If I had the choice I would NOT be twenty again.  Even if I could retain who I was on the inside I wouldn’t do it.  I would be so lost in that world.  If I had a twenty-year-old body the only men fifty-years-old who would date me I WOULD NOT WANT.  And I don’t want to date men in their twenties and thirties.  Those men have not yet walked far enough along the road of life to connect with me.
    About four years ago I had a neighbor that we women use to refer to as Mr. Eye-candy.  He and his friends use to throw frisbees, football etc. out on the grass without their shirts.  We women would watch him.  In a word he was beautiful and he had a truly amazing body.  He was all of 30 and one day he made a pass at me.  I told him I was too old for him.  This did not deter him.  He told me that I was hot and he didn’t care how old I was.  I gently but firmly told him “No” again.  I just couldn’t go there.  My friend told me flat out she thought I was nuts.  
    I just couldn’t get my head around it.  He was a kid.  He acted like a kid and while I could appreciate the beautiful male body he had, just having sex with him held no appeal.   I want that connection that comes from being with someone who gets it, someone whose life experience has taught him what really matters. 
    Karl R (# 
    You wrote,  “Figure out which preference matters the most and pursue it the hardest.”
    Karl R, that is what I want the most.

  19. 169

    Lia # 165 –
    I am 52 and when I first got divorced at 48 I was about 40 lbs overweight.  I lost it all in a period of several months to 1)  feel more confident about myself 2) date men that were more in line with who I was attracted to 3) balance the fact that I was older and back in competition.  Make the best of what you have to work with!  Can’t change your age, but sure can change your pants size!
    I dated men 20 yrs younger than me because I was flattered they were interested, but lost interest myself quickly for all the reasons other women noted.  But I absolutely found many men in my age group who were very happy to go out with me.  An immature man with issues will always be that way no matter how old he is (unless he decides to fix it) and as another poster said, you don’t want those men anyway.  My guess from your posts is you would not like them very much and reject them yourself, so who cares what they think?
    My current bf is 2 yrs older than me and he was specifically looking for a woman his own age because he was looking for a LTR with marriage potential.  Did he date the younger women when he was first divorced?  Sure, because he was not ready for a real relationship and like me, he was flattered he could.
    When it came time for a relationship, he chose his own age group. His best friend married a woman 20 yrs younger than he is.  My bf says that marriage is a ton of work, a woman who marries that much older has significant issues and now the husband has to live with them.  This is what my bf said that cracked me up:
    When you are driving a race car, you gotta work really hard to keep that car on the road. One little bump and it starts to fishtail and you got problems.  You have to keep your eyes on the road and both hands on steering wheel AT ALL TIMES or you got trouble.  If you are driving a long distance, you want a car you can drive relaxed, with one hand on the steering wheel, and enjoy the scenery. 
    Lots of men are looking for the Cadillac and  are no longer interested in driving the Ferrari…..other than to look at occasionally, lol!! 
    So his friend might have a sexy hotrod, but he expends way too much effort keeping it on the road, and my bf has a different agenda.  He considers me very sexy….and more important to him, a great ride for the long haul…..

  20. 170

    Integrity does matter I was reading a recent book by Wendy Walsh PHD who cites many studies about bonding between the sexes. She said men fall for women when they trust them. Looks get their initial attention but trust makes them fall for you
    My best friend is 56 After a very long marriage she started dating online She had a blast meeting all kinds of men and didn’t have strict criteria. My friend is a fun confident person .She’s now moved in with her new boyfriend who is a 50 years old tall handsome Asian guy who has his act together. 
    Little wing #170 Im in I changed my age range to 40-60  Overnight Im being viewed by lots of guys up to 65  I got 3 messages overnight from guys 45,45 and 51
    Ill see how it goes  …

  21. 171
    Karl T

    Little Wing,
    I actually have on my profile an age range of 24 to 69.  I would choose nothing if it were an option.   I would rather just not have a specified age range as I welcome anyone to contact me.  I still get almost no messages and almost no replies from anyone of any age range.  I have messaged women from 25 thru 60 even just as a test.  Online dating has always been horrible for me.

    1. 171.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Karl T – Not to bust your balls, man, but your use of the passive voice is telling. “Online dating has always been horrible for me.”

      You know what I hear? “I have always been horrible at online dating.”

      If you want to get better at it, go to – Despite its marketing, it’s a unisex product that will change your life. Don’t just complain. Do something different.

  22. 172

    Soulsister # 175
    Thank you.  Your words of wisdom gave me such a lift.  I can not count the number of times I have read your posts and felt my spirit answering with a big resounding YES!!  I loved that analogy!!
    Kathleen #176
    Thank you!  I know that integrity matters and I do know that it matters to men, I just hit up against some fears I didn’t realize were still sitting there.  I have been going full steam ahead getting my body back into shape so I could date again and I haven’t been paying any attention to the doubts and fears that are still sitting there… until I did a face plant in those fears.

  23. 173
    Karmic Equation

    @Karl T 177

    I think you misunderstand online dating a bit. Male responsibility to inititate contact doesn’t change just because you’ve moved the location from a bar to the web.

    If you want to meet someone, you need to go online and search and initiate contact. Unless you’re a 10 in looks or in wealth, very few women are going to message you first.

    As John mentioned, use the “Who visited me” to start the search. If you notice a woman as a repeat visitor, then you might have good success if you message her first. CAVEAT – This only works for OKC, if you’re on POF, I sometimes found that I clicked on the same SMALL thumbnail a few times and didn’t like the guy in big-picture mode. He looked better as little guy. Oh well.

    In your message don’t mention you saw her visiting your profile. Instead, read her profile. Write “Hi” and this is where you have to have some self-awareness. If you think she’s out of your league, then you have write more than hi. ONE SENTENCE is all you need, don’t overdo, or you’ll seem desperate. If you think you’re in the same league as her or her league is lower, then “Hi” should be enough.

    Change what you’re looking for from 24-69 to 29-59. This will upgrade your perceived maturity level and downgrade your desperation level. Or you can list 18-99, which means you’re open to anyone. 24-69 seems really weird unless you cleverly explain it in your profile.

    Then make sure you look good in your pix. I’ve noticed it more on POF than OKC, black men (not that you’re black) tend to show themselves in a suit in their main photos. They know they need to sell success so that’s how they do it. (They’re not in my search but I get a lot of contacts from that ethnicity. Probably because I’m Asian.) — If you’re on OKC, you’ll stand out from other men your age if you’re in a suit. Of course make sure that you have other, more casual photos too.

    I have no idea of your looks, Karl T. And online dating, as John said, is a beauty contest first. You have to appear at least presentable and decent-looking. Looks count less to some women…I’m like a guy in a girl’s body, so looks count a lot more to me than to most women my age…but they still count some to most women. So if you’re in shape, make sure you have photos (no bathroom pix, please) showing the physique. If you’re out of shape, put up the best pix you have or get new ones done with you dressed in a way that accentuates the positive and minimizes the negative. Then make sure you hit the gym. If you want hot, you need to be hot. You can’t get something for nothing…unless you’re rich. So if you are that, then make sure you list your income.

    Finally, make sure you write a thoughtful profile. I like witty men so I’m drawn to witty, light-hearted profiles. And because I want to attract the same, mine is also that way. Give some thought to your tone and choice of words to evoke the feelings in the women you want to attract. If you don’t know how to do that, take advantage of Evan’s profile writing services as well as his book.

    Good luck.

  24. 174

    @Karmic @Karl
    In your message don’t mention you saw her visiting your profile. Instead, read her profile. Write “Hi” and this is where you have to have some self-awareness. If you think she’s out of your league, then you have write more than hi. ONE SENTENCE is all you need, don’t overdo, or you’ll seem desperate. If you think you’re in the same league as her or her league is lower, then “Hi” should be enough.

    This is the wrong approach. I immediately ignore someone who just says “hi” I don’t care how hot he is, I’m not a teenager, I need more substance than a man who says “hi.” One sentence is probably not even going to cut it. Read her profile, find something unique and say something funny/tease her about it but for the love of God, don’t just say “hi.” I would easily get ten messages a day saying just “hi” you know how many of them got responses? ZERO.

  25. 175

    Julia  181 
    Couldn’t agree with you more  I put together a funny very unique profile and if the most creative thing he says is “HI ”  I don’t waste my time 
    One sentence that is witty and creative will always get a response from me 

  26. 176

    Karl T 177 – I want to get in here and help too!  I love online dating, been dating a match guy for two years, went out with probably 30-40 at various times on match.  I consider myself pretty efficient at it, which, btw, is when it got fun!  Here is how I filtered the men (and yes, Sparkling Emerald is right, you still need to initiate contact) with the following steps:
    1)  Read email. If it was thoughtful and mentioned something in my profile, move to next step.  It could mention my looks, but only in a light way – you have a beautiful smile for instance.  Anything that said “wow, I would love to make out with you/have sex with you/make love to you” was deleted.
    2) Look at his profile. His age not appropriate, delete.  Age range goofy, delete.  Separated, not divorced, delete. Smoking if anything but no way, delete. All good….look at pics.  Could I kiss this man?  Yes or maybe, keep going…otherwise, delete.  (Looks do not have to be “hot”, he needs to be kissable to me…).  Big  bonus if his pictures were not posed but looked like he was having fun…boating, skiing, at the beach, hiking, etc. 
    3).  Read his profile.  If he sounds kind, fun, or interesting, keep going. If he sounds full of himself or arrogant, or mentions working out more than 3 times, delete.  Profiles are very important to women….just like when you talk to us, we are reading between the lines.  If he sounds hostile or fed up or demanding, seriously delete.  If he was super good looking he could get away with a three line profile, but otherwise, I want to get a feel for him.  Get help from a friend, preferably a woman, if needed.  Sometimes it is hard to say great things about ourselves that others see in us but we don’t or feel funny mentioning.  Plus a woman friend will see in you the things she knows other women will value.
    It does take some work, but I think if you have fun with it you can have a blast. Even if you are not super hot (not saying you aren’t!), women usually are more forgiving because they want have experienced falling for some unexpected men who just had that special something….you have it too, just have to find the person who recognizes it in you….

  27. 177
    Karl R

    Lia asked: (#165)
    “It doesn’t really matter that I get my body in shape and that I am a good person.  I list that number… 51 and my worth is… less?”
    When you list your age (or any other characteristic), you fall outside of some people’s filters.
    When I was on, I listed my education (some college). The majority of women wanted at least a bachelor’s degree. Of the ones who who didn’t insist on a bachelor’s degree, many wanted at least an associate’s degree.
    My income is about 10% higher than the median for a man with a master’s degree in my city. My IQ is higher than most people with advanced degrees. Based on my writing skills, you can draw your own conclusions about whether I’m more articulate then the average person with a degree.
    Getting filtered out doesn’t mean I’m worth less than the men who have degrees, but it does mean that I may have fewer dating opportunities online.
    Lia asked: (#165)
    “I do care if he is dating me because he has realized that he can’t have what he really wants… 25 or 30 year old.  I really don’t want to be the woman of last resort.”
    My wife likes foreign men. Her ex-husband was half Chinese. I’ve met an ex-boyfriend who was Scottish and another who was a Spaniard. When she told a couple colleagues that she was engaged, they asked if I was Japanese … because they knew she’d dated multiple Japanese men.
    I’m not a foreign man. I was born in the U.S. My parents were born in the U.S. Three of my grandparents were born in the U.S. (the fourth was born in Canada).
    I’m not an exotic foreigner. Does that mean I am the man of last resort?
    I don’t care if a man is in his 80s. If what he really wants (more than anything else) is to date a woman who is 25 or 30, that’s what he’ll do. She may have nothing else going in her favor, but she will be 25 or 30.
    Either you’re being extremely thin-skinned about this, or you’re letting your fear do your thinking for you.
    Lia asked: (#165)
    “I thought that when it came down to it that who I was, that I was kind, saw the good in others, that I live my life with integrity that that was going to mean something to someone that I would have a partner someday.”
    It does.
    But I’ll point out to you the same thing that I point out to the men who think women prefer bad boys.
    The there is a set of traits that help you get your foot in the door. There is a separate set of traits that keep you from getting kicked back out the door. Youth, good looks and confidence fall into the first set of traits. Kindness and integrity fall into the second set.

  28. 178
    Karmic Equation

    @Karl R 184
    So well said.
    @Julia, Kathleen, and Soulsister
    I’ll defer to you about the sentence thing. I’m looking for quantity at this point in my life not quality. I’ve had serious relationships all my life. I really don’t want serious now. So my triage is different than your triage as you were all looking for relationships. I’m not looking for hookups but I’m not looking for forever either, so my triaging is probably skewed in a different direction than most women our age.
    At least now Karl T may have a better idea of how the party girl and the LTR girl approach triaging messages.

  29. 179
    Karl T

    All the responses to my post!!  All I was trying to do was reply to Little Wings suggestion.  I wasn’t trying to complain or suggest anything. 
    Thank you for all of the advice.  However, I do 99% of the contacting to women.  I’m not sure where you came away thinking I mostly waited for women to contact me???
    To the others, you only emphasize what I have always found to be true.  Women rarely agree with each other!!!!  When I seek the advice of one female friend it is always in disagreement with other female friends!!!  Karmic and Julia already have given very conflicting advice.  Anyway, thank you for all of your advice.  I’m only 5 foot 8 so that right there is already a huge disadvantage in online dating.  I am a very modest person and am not going to lie or build myself up in my profile.  I know it is a disadvantage- I’ve even been insulted by women before on first contact about it (even by women who were 35 pounds overweight!) 
    Evan, I’d like you to maybe use some male friends you may have in the Boston area as a test on  Preferably ones who are just average- average height, average income, in their 30’s, etc.  I have a strong hunch online dating is far more difficult in this area and I also believe men out number the men a great deal in this area online.  Have them contact women who range from average to very attractive and also from slender to full figured.  BUT, don’t have them contact any woman with kids. 

    1. 179.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Karl T “Evan, I’d like you to maybe use some male friends you may have in the Boston area as a test on Preferably ones who are just average- average height, average income, in their 30′s, etc. I have a strong hunch online dating is far more difficult in this area and I also believe men out number the men a great deal in this area online.

      It’s not more difficult in Boston. It’s not more difficult for 30something men. It’s more difficult for guys who don’t have great profiles, photos, email technique, and understanding of what women want. Until you try every thing in Finding the Online, I’m not sympathetic. No more than you’re sympathetic to a woman who wants to lose weight but refuses to diet or work out.

  30. 180

    @ Karl R # 185
    Thank you.  Just rode the emotional train for a bit there.  Fear and doubts coming up.  It’s all going too be okay.

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