How Can I Tell If My Boyfriend Is Really Just Friends With Her?
My boyfriend insists on staying friends with a girl with whom he is attracted to, and who has point blank invited him to have sex with her. I feel uncomfortable, and he refuses to stop talking to her, insisting they are “just friends”. Am I being irrational? My boyfriend and I met, sparks flew, and things got serious very fast. He spent a lot of time with me and invited me to practically everything he did, including dinner with a female friend of his (who lives across the country and was visiting). Since I completely trusted him, I declined because I was tired. The next day we met up and he informed me that he was going to brunch with her and another friend the day after and broke pattern by not inviting me (we had previously made plans together for that day). Warning bells went off in my head.
A few weeks later, he received pictures from her from their dinner together. They were very close in the pictures – hugging each other, her behind him with hands on his waist as he leaned against a car, him picking her up and dipping her, etc. I got very upset about how inappropriate I felt this was, and he yelled at me, insisting that they were not flirting (which they clearly were). I told him that I didn’t like him being friends with her because I felt it was not 100% platonic, to which he responded that they were “just friends” and I shouldn’t tell him who to be friends with. My problem is, it doesn’t feel like they are just friends, given that after their dinner together he wanted to see her again alone, and seeing the pictures she sent him that showed a lot of heavy flirting. He also admitted later that she had offered to have sex with him that night, to which he declined. He felt that admitting this to me should prove trustworthiness.
I feel like it’s extremely inappropriate to be friends with someone of the opposite sex who is clearly after more than just friendship. I am considering breaking up with him because 1) that night after dinner she asked him to have sex with her and he still thinks its okay to be friends; 2) he flirted heavily with her; 3) he lied to me about flirting with her when the pictures clearly say otherwise; and 4) my gut is telling me there is a problem here considering he wanted to go to brunch with her without me there. He continues to maintain his relationship with her via phone, email, etc.
I am already in love with this man and we have had a great relationship up to this point but I find myself having trouble trusting him now. I have never had trust issues in the past, and did not have them with him prior to this. I really don’t want to leave this relationship but am worried about his continuing fidelity. Am I being irrational or are my worries justified? —Kathy
For any of you who think that I always side with flirtatious men, take another look here and here.
So let’s sum up the answer to how to deal with a man you can’t trust:
You should NOT be in a relationship with a man you can’t trust.
A relationship with a man you can’t trust is going to be miserable for both of you.
You better make sure that the reason you can’t trust your boyfriend is because he’s ACTUALLY doing something wrong.
It’ll be miserable for you because you’re always on pins and needles, wondering about his whereabouts. You get concerned when he talks to women at parties. You check his Facebook page to see what he’s saying to his ex’s. You casually browse his cell phone when he’s taking a shower to see who texted him. You technically have a boyfriend, but you don’t have any of the benefits of having a boyfriend, because you always feel compelled to second-guess the status of your relationship.
And don’t forget how miserable it will be for him. After all, he’s the guy who is always being questioned when he comes home an hour late or takes a weekend trip with his guy friends. He’s the guy whose integrity is constantly being impugned. He’s the guy whose charisma you adored being told that he can’t display it to anyone other than you. Finally, he’s the guy who has to put up with a constant barrage of queries, regardless of whether he’s done anything wrong. I’ve been this guy and it’s an awful feeling having an otherwise delightful partnership being dissected to death because of your girlfriend’s insecurity.
Which brings me to my real point for any woman who is rightfully sympathizing with Kathy:
You better make sure that the reason you can’t trust your boyfriend is because he’s ACTUALLY doing something wrong.
Not because your previous boyfriends have cheated on you.
Not because he makes other women smile at parties.
Not because he maintains friendships with attractive women and writes things on their Facebook Wall.
Not because he goes to a strip club at a bachelor party.
You can only mistrust your boyfriend if he’s done something proactive that intimates that he’s not trustworthy. Like hanging out with a woman who wants to sleep with him. And lying about it.
But beware of the potential for you to create a cycle of lying in your man.
If you’re always on his case even if he has absolutely no intentions other than staying in touch with a girl friend — he’s going to feel rightfully insulted by your constant questioning. He will get the sense that he can’t tell you the truth because you won’t accept the truth. And he will find that it’s easier to lie to you about a platonic lunch than tell you the truth and be chewed out for it.
Believe it or not, that’s not his fault. It’s yours, for not trusting him.
And if you feel your hackles begin to rise at me for stating the male perspective on what it’s like to be a good person who is mistrusted, I invite you to reread my mission statement from the top of this post:
You should NOT be in a relationship with a man you can’t trust.
It’s that simple.
Yelling at me that some men ARE liars is useless.
Yelling at your boyfriend because you think he’s a cheater is useless. You’re driving yourself crazy and you’re making him even crazier.
If you can’t trust your boyfriend, for Chrissakes, do all of us a favor:
Find another boyfriend.
Amen
Well, it sounds like you don’t really know him all that well, since you got into a relationship fairly quickly. Also he *yelled* at you?
Sounds like you need to get to know him better.
In any case, you can’t tell a man not to be friends with someone. It will only backfire. You yourself can decline a friendship with the person, but the best way is to befriend her too.
There is a line between being friends and blatantly flirting with someone and being sneaky and lying to your partner. That is not normal behaviour. No woman should put up with that, or man if it’s his girlfriend doing it.
I personally couldn’t be f#%!ed to even bother befriending the other woman or stay in that kinda relationship, they can both go jump as far as I be concerned….
What about if what of his woman friends puts up a F/B post saying “He has a girlfriend in every port”? Shouldn’t be upset about that?
As always Evan, I agree with your repsonse.
Kathy;
Your BF if right, you can’t and shouldn’t try to tell people who they can be friends with. Your BF is also being probably being honest in that he isn’t cheating with this woman.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t heading in that direction. I’ve been friends with women where I did not even realize how heavily physical I was with her in public until people started talking.
It sounds like a boulder rolling down hill. If left alone it looks like it is rolling towards an honest “I never meant for anything to happen” situation.
Your choice is if you want to fight to prevent that from happening if you want to bale out to go find a BF where you will not have to deal with that nonsense.
I think it is very hard to continue in a relationship where there is no trust. i feel if he cares for you he should not ignore your feelings. he should invite you to come with him if he is going to be with her. I think this situation will eventually cause more problems later. Its easy for others to tell you to leave him alone but they are not in love with him you are,but i think you need to make the wise decision and bail out before you get more involved with this guy. how would he react if it were you doing these things to him?
hi i agree i’ve been single for 20 years by my choice .. if you can’t trust ina relationship time to let the guy go…. i live incanada myself….
It seems like women often feel they need to gather overwhelming evidence or catch their boyfriend red-handed in order to leave him. Here’s my thought: If he’s making you uncomfortable, and he doesn’t care, it’s okay to leave. You don’t have to work so hard to justify it.
I get not wanting to throw your relationship away over ‘nothing’. But in this case whether or not he’s planning to (or has) slept with this woman isn’t the point- it’s the way he is handling this conflict. He’s showing you his lack of desire or ability to problem solve with you, and that’s a good enough reason to end something.
I totally agree with that said and if he really cared about the relationship he would at least come to you as a man and respect your feeling and thoughts of the relationship and he would show that your relationship with him actually means a lot to him.
THis makes so much sense. Thanks…just cleared my head.
This was an exceptionally intelligent, valudating and insightful reply. Thank you, Jennifer
Yep, find another boyfriend. To be honest, I quit reading the letter half-way through because this guy crossed so many lines I was just waiting for Evan to tell you to GET RID! The list of reasons was so long.
I agree with most of what Evan wrote, and would add this on top: There are other reasons to break up with a man beyond his being a potential liar or cheater (which this letter doesn’t provide any proof of). If you don’t like how he behaves around other women, such as you saw in the photos, or how he yelled at you, that’s reason enough to call it off with him. These behaviors don’t necessarily mean that he is a bad man. But if these are behaviors you, personally, cannot tolerate in a LTR, *regardless* of whether anything is happening with another woman, then break up sooner rather than later. You would be doing both of you a favor.
That’s pretty harsh. The guy obviously is not concerned about upsetting you, so that’s the answer for me. If it’s upsetting you, and he’s yelling at you defending himself, there’s the red flag. My HUSBAND had female friends who I was sure wanted to sleep with him, but he did not have feelings for them. He’s a flirt by nature, so he would flirt. But in the end, he knew spending time with them without me bothered me, so I was invited and met them. And I don’t think he ever was with any of them without a group of people. They were fine. Did I become friends with them myself? No. But seeing me, and meeting me, definitely changed the tone of things.
And just to say it, Evan, you can trust your guy all you want, but that doesn’t make you trust the girl he’s with. Guys can claim whatever they want, but when they are with a woman who is determined for something to happen, even an “oops, I just fell on your lap” or “I didn’t mean to kiss you”, that happens. Girls can be trouble and some have no problem being the cause of cheating, thinking if it happened, clearly the guy isn’t so happy. And even the honest guy can get suckered. A truly decent guy wouldn’t be in that situation. If any of these girls tried that with mine, he’d be appalled. He takes infidelity really seriously and would never want someone to do that to him.
Amen and Amen!!
I think some calm reflection is needed here. From what you’ve said, I think it is clear that your boyfriend feels SOME LEVEL of attraction towards this woman, right now. However, he’s conscious that he’s in a relationship with YOU, and for the moment he seems to want things to stay that way – that’s why he didn’t sleep with her. However, if there had been NO attraction on his part, he would have steered well clear of the brunch. Going to the brunch alone after her offering to sleep with him is an indication that he feels attracted to her, to some extent. So basically, he’s struggling with his feelings at the moment.
I think its important to remember that in any long term relationship, one or both partners will feel attraction to other people at times. The longer the relationship lasts, the higher the odds that an attractive person will cross his path – or yours. When that happens, the person in the relationship who is feeling the attraction to the new person has a struggle on their hands. They value the relationship they are in, but the new attraction provokes strong feelings of desire as well. Unfortunately, finding a new boyfriend won’t solve this problem, because this scenario is likely to occur in any relationship, at some point. it may be him, or it may be you, but a couple who make it through 40 years together without either of them feeling an attraction to someone else are either extremely, lucky, or live on a very isolated island!
So what can you do? Despite your anxiety and worry about “what is going on”, your partner really needs you by his side right now. He needs your support. If he is to overcome his sudden desires for this woman, he needs to feel bonded to you, and that your relationship is so much more worth it than losing you by going ahead and having a fling. Remember, this woman lives across the country, so presumably she’ll not be physically present, which makes things easier. If your partner cannot overcome his feelings and the lust doesn’t fade then yes, he may leave you for her. But for goodness sake don’t DRIVE him away by fighting and obsessing – this is one of those moments in life when you need to summon up all your inner strength and self control and show what you’re made of. Spend time, with him. Love him. Do things together that you both enjoy. Stop judging him and respect the fact that despite his obvious attraction, he has so far held himslef back from sleeping wioth her. Admire him for that. Yes, morally, it was not very nice of him to go to the brunch without you. He couldn’t quite resist that one, but he did resist having sex with her. He did that because of you. Like I said you’re going to have to deal with these situations from time to time throughout your life, WHOEVER your boyfriend/husband happens to be – might as well start practising! And take heart, these things CAN be overcome, fade and become a distant memory. Takethe right, supportive action to save your relationship, if you really want to keep it. Good luck!
Yes, a comment i agree with 100%. All the other comments are great and reasonable but i feel this approach is the best. There are bound to be times of uncertainty and attraction to outside party because we are only human. But, that doesnt guarantee that something will happen. In the above case however i feel the bf has over stepped the line. Personally, i feel it’s very wrong to even get into a position where a friend offers sex. Even worse is that he didn’t admit that was a mistake (getting himself into that situation). Whether to break up or not depends on how important the relationship is to you and whether that type of behaviour is something that you can be forgive.
Thanks this would help
Wow! Your reply is a lot better than Evan’s! I like your comment because I’m currently in a situation almost similar to the lady except that my man didnt yell at me. I guess if I just blantantly accuse him of cheating that will ruin our relationship. Your comment makes me think again. Thanks
You mean you liked and agreed with her answer more because it validated your feelings more. Got it.
I agree with her ‘calm reflection’. I take it for which part of her comment makes sense and which part is not since everyone’s relationship story is different.
Your words couldn’t be more what I needed to hear right now. I’m in a similar situation and I’m taking this attraction and the flirting so personally, but my boyfriend and I have been very rocky the last couple of months and I can see that he is struggling with his emotions. He swears nothing physical will ever happen but I know that the flirting is still happening. I think he hasn’t felt wanted by me in some time and so he’s flirting with the idea of someone showing him interest. Instead of getting angry I need to find strength and prove to him that I do love him and want him.
Thank you for the reminder.
im going through a similar situation trying to think about what I should do and honestly this comment helped me so much. I know I don’t want to give up on on my situation just yet until I know his feelings but this makes me feel like it could work out with the right recipie of time and patience which I’m lacking right now because I have so many questions for him. Again This helped me personally a lot.
Yep, one good fight with Kathy and he goes off with “friend” because he needs an ear, and she wants to be “supportive.” A couple of drinks and “ooops!”
The “friend” wants him. The “friend” has offerred sex. The “friend” would think nothing of breaking these two up.
That’s not a friend. It’s an opportunist. He likes the attention, and maybe he feels things moved too fast with Kathy. Regardless, if he wanted to protect his relationship, he wouldn’t put himself in a shady situation or want to cause unnecessary strife with his woman. He’s defending his “friendship” with a woman who doesn’t respect his relationship. But hey, maybe he doesn’t respect his relationship either.
I agree 100%. I’ve seen this happen many times to people and I can also relate.
Agreed.
4) my gut is telling me there is a problem here
Listen to your gut. That little inner voice screaming in your ear is your inner child. She is guileless and will not lie to you. If I could only go back and undo every mistake I’ve made by not listening to what I call my Little Voice… I could have avoided a whole lot of pain in life.
He does not seem to care about your feelings. If you are uncomfortable, you probably have reason to be. “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” She will likely keep after him until he eventually gives in!
I do not understand why you question your feelings so minutely. It seems you do not trust him and your gut instinct is probably right.
Call it intuition, or the “still small voice”, call it what you will. I have found my basic instincts about a person, be it male or female, turn out in the long run to be correct.
So much over-analyzing…..
Wait a minute! Isn’t there a double-standard happening here? Evan, are you telling us it would be fine if your girlfriend continued to be platonic friends with a man who made it clear he wanted to sleep with her, as long as she said it was just platonic? And that if she dis-invited you to plans that included him, that would be okay too? To what extent does Kathy need to catch him in the act in order for this to be a violation of their relationship parameters? The fact that Kathy is very uncomfortable with the situation and he’s telling her to “deal with it” says a lot right there–he doesn’t care about her feelings and discomfort. Obviously, they are not really, completely exclusive at this point, and he is not fully willing to “be her boyfriend.” Boyfriends don’t keep seeing other women with whom there is sexual tension, especially without the girlfriend present.
Finally 🙂 *** Someone who is thinking the same as I– If this were you
Evan… I suspect your answer might be slanted in another direction!
You are right to question the motives of your “boyfriend with the “friend”.
Ok to anyone here who is making her seem like she’s in the wrong well she’s not. She has every right to feel uncomfortable. In really getin sick and tired of hearing people say oh this is normal oh it’s ok for your guy to think other females are attractive or it’s ok for your man that you are commited to go out for lunch or dinner with another (different) woman yea that’s on. WRONG!!!! None of that’s ok idc if it’s a friend or who ever it is the woman or man that you are with is the one you go out in personal lunches or dinners with what is wrong with people today and how they view an think things? Are you kidding me? No woman on this earth wants to feel that the same ways their man think of them are being thought of toward other women no woman wants that they want to feel like they are the special and only ones! I’m sorry if it’s just me here but I’m very old school and I’m only 23 it really saddens me to see how our generation is today with how they think and see things as “the norm.” It’s really pathetic. Here is the Solid real truth! You go out with someone try are yours no one else’s why keep looking when you already have someone what is wrong with people today you wonder why the relationship and marital statuses are more on breaking up and divorce you wonder why. Wow all I have to say is she has every right to be upset the fact that he still wanted to go with that woman to a brunch after Her self whoring around saying he wanted to have sex with him when 1 she should know that he is already taken and 2 the guy should know better and be outa there so quick that’s what I call a true man who runs from that who says no I already have the love of my life he obviously doesn’t love you because if he truly did he wouldn’t take some bitch skank whore over someone he’s supposed to be faithful and wanting to get to know you better. Sorry but this guy doesn’t seem the faithful type he seems like the I let others change my influence instead of keeping my own head strong of an influence. If I were a guy and I had a girl back at home waiting for me and I’m out with a “friend” an she wanted to have sex with me id be like ok I am taken I actually love and care for the woman that I’m goin back home to please get out of my way this is awkward. Not oh let me go out the next day to a brunch with some woman go just threw herself on me like really? Come on people really need to take a step back especially in this day in age an really ask them selves what the right thing to do is instead of being like everyone else who is obviously in a lot of denile and absolute bull shit views and ways. All I have to say is it’s a red flag that your oh so called bf would want to go out again with some woman who tried to have sex with him sorry but te bf should be running from that not wanting to get closer Because what’s the point of being in a relationship when he’s just going to act single. Like really what is wrong with people today call me old school but damn I will never get this world or people and the way they think. And girl u deserve way better than some moron who’s more interested in goin to a lunch with some skank than a real woman like you who actually has respect for herself.
Bam!
Yeah. He sounds weak, at the least, even if he hasn’t done anything yet. Seems like she has a plan for him. I mean, what kind of woman behaves the way she does around a guy she knows is attached? We all know what kind. The kind you don’t want as a friend or anywhere near your boyfriend. If it takes two to tango, she’s cuing up the music.
You, too, could go and meet her without him. That might prove interesting! Match passive aggression with passive aggression. “My boyfriend has spoken so highly of you and says what fun you two have together–let’s go do a girls-only thing!”
Make sure to take photos of your gal pal outing, and make sure he sees them. As MLW’s example shows–it would change the dynamic.
I have been in both Kathy’s and Kathy’s boyfriends position in the past and have developed a trick to help me work out this overly common issue, I call it the Candy Store analogy. When in doubt, I usually bring it up to my significant other:
You put a young child on a chair in the center of a large candy store and tell them that they are not to touch the candy under any circumstances while you are away. You then leave the child completely alone in the store with a view that would not allow you or anyone else to walk in and catch him without him having ample time to completely hide his misdeeds.
In this situation, there are three “basic” outcomes:
1) The child follows the rules and does not touch any of the candy. He may be tempted, but he does not budge from his chair, he is unbreakable.
2) The child sits calmly for a while, but eventually the allure of the luscious and delectable candy starts to wear on him and he has just one little piece. Since the piece of candy was so very good and really didn’t cause any harm, he decided to have just one more until, if left alone long enough, he is gorging himself. He didn’t mean for it to happen that way, it just started small and spiraled out of control.
3) The moment that you leave the store he leaps upon the candy and eats more then his fill, not caring about the agreed upon rules.
Which category a person falls into determines how I will respond to their actions. If I believe the man is unbreakable, then I would have no problem with him flirting up a storm with every woman in town. Why would I? I know that his resolve is unshakeable (this is what is suspect is the situation with Evan and his wife).
However, if I have reason to believe that the man I am with can be tempted onto the slippery slope, then I may to question (respectfully) his decision to have dinner alone with his ex who still wants him every Friday, or go on a weeklong ski vacation with his friend and his friend’s irresistible sister.
When you are in the early stages of a relationship, you don’t know what category the person you are with falls into. You haven’t had enough time and circumstance to figure out where they stand. You could give them the benefit of the doubt and treat them as a person from #1 or you could assume the worst based on past ills you have suffered and toss them into #3.
When a situation such as Kathy’s arises, I find it is in no way helpful to accuse or speculate. Instead, I prefer to ask my partner using this analogy. I always make sure to mention that none of the children in this example are “bad”. They could all be wonderful kind and caring kids just with different levels of impulse control, and since the relationship is new I am not sure which category my partner falls into. I then ask them where they think they stand. If they say they are firmly in category #1, then I give them the benefit of the doubt and treat their actions as such. If they say that they are in category #2, I usually say something to the effect of “ok, I trust you to handle your own life and will not bring this issue up again, thank you for being honest about who you are” and let the implications of the analogy sink in.
This has the distinct benefit of getting the other person to think about who they are and how they would react in a less accusatory way. If a person honestly realizes that they are in category #2, then they may think twice about allowing themselves to be put into potentially harmful situations. I have had more then one past boyfriend clean up his act once HE realized where he stood in regard to his self control (without being accused or forced to defend himself against crimes he did not commit).
I should mention, as I always do with my partners when the appropriate time arises, that I see myself in category #2. I have very strong resolve as well as a strong moral compass in general, however, I am not 100% sure that I am above temptation. Thus, I never let myself get into situations that have the potential to get “slippery”. I wont be spending the week alone in a shack with Brad Pitt, just to be safe.
First of all, to all that commented along the lines of “he’ll just sleep with his friend next time”, I would like to point out that this friend lives across the country. So, this particular act of infidelity – not likely to happen. That is not to say there won’t be other “platonic friends” down the road.
That said, how do we know he hasn’t slept with her already? Because he said so? That’s the same guy who said his friend was completely platonic, then leaked provocative photos of them together, then mentioned that oh, by the way, she’d offered him sex. But he refused. We know he refused because he said so, and because he’s never lied about anything else.
If this were my relationship, this episode, plus the yelling, would do it in.
Ask your boyfriend how he would feel about you insisting on keeping a male friend who asked you for sex. While the two of you were together. He’d be cool with it? Wouldn’t be bothered by the friendship? Ask him what he’d do if you refused to give the friendship up.
Maybe you can get him to see your POV with a discussion like this. If not? I think you know the answer.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has webbed feet like a duck, it’s a duck.
One of my best friends is a guy. We’ve been best friends for years. He’s had a few girlfriends over the years as have I. Both of us have had to deal with this question from our boy/girl friends. We both say the same thing….. There has never been, and there will never be anything more than friendship. He’s not attracted to me and I’m not attracted to him in that way. We do talk about our love lives often and we both really enjoy having someone of the opposite sex to talk to about stuff. We do things together from time to time. BUT I have NEVER offered to have sex with him and vice versa. Even when he’s dating someone I don’t like or I feel is wrong for him I give his girlfriends the respect they deserve.
We are not a match in a romantic way. If if I ever offered sex, I KNOW he’d be a man and respect his girlfriend. One of the things I respect most about my guy best friend is his honor and integrity. It would be the end of our friendship as it should be.
In my opinion, It is NOT OK for him to entertain a friendship with someone that openly wants to have sex with him. If he does, my guess is he’s keeping her on back burner for a F@ck buddy.
The fact that he’s not rejecting her tells me, he has little respect for you. I am sorry, but my opinion is, your days are numbered. Don’t invest to much of your heart and keep your dating options open.
I hope I haven’t hurt your feelings, but you did ask… good luck. SoCalSingleGal
http://theplaybook4men.wordpress.com
I’m new here, and found the site through some random Google search about hooking up with an old flame from years past…totally irrelevant to *this* post, of course, but…there ya go. I read several posts and found the conversations to be really interesting and well rounded, and I love the seemingly equal male/female ratio of participants in the dicussions I’ve read through so far.
The girl/guy best friends scenario is a slippery slope, or at least, it has the potential to be, in the eyes of each significant other involved. I think in a true long-term honest-to-goodness friendship bewteen a man and a woman, there actually is JUST that. Its a real and valued relationship based on any number of things….shared professional interest, lengthy history of knowing one another, growing up together, or on and on. These friendships tend to remain platonic as a result of one or the other not wanting to risk the valued friendship over a potentially messy hook-up gone bad, or also, because the role they play in on another’s lives IS a true friend and confidant, and as such, is an immensely important part of their lives…too valuable to toss away on the odd chance of shaking up some heretofore unawakend romantic longings. In these types of friendships, then I think the current GFs/BFs can feel pretty secure that these friendships are just what they are being portrayed as…a form of best friendship.
However, what the original poster seems to be falling victim to is the boyfriend who perhaps might have some lustful/romantic feelings toward his *sweet little innocent friend* (the one who very recently offered to sleep with him, in spite of her being aware of his REAL girlfriend waiting at home!). This is a different type of friendship, whci certainly sounds threatening to your relationship. These two seem to have an ongoing, unresolved flirtation going on…and a pretty open one at that. There is even some photographic evidence floating around. Proceed with caution…this is not a situation in which i would feel happy or cherished…not one little bit!