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For example, he “forgot” that we had plans one evening and went to a friend’s house instead. He called on his way home from the friend’s house but didn’t call back that evening when he said he would. So, I called him and left a message. I heard back from him the next day. I casually asked what had happened to our date the night before. He apologized profusely telling me he forgot. I told him it was fine and that we could get together another time. He called the next day, but didn’t ask me out for the upcoming weekend.
Then, I heard nothing from him for 5 days. After several days went by I assumed he met someone else and was no longer interested. Then he sent a text saying that things “must be over for us because when I don’t call, I don’t hear from you.” To say I was perplexed is an understatement.
If this was the first time this had happened to me I would have thought it was the individual, but even my daughter has said she has had this same problem with guys. We have both experienced a guy’s chiding for not actively pursuing them. I’m talking about the first few weeks of getting to know each other, not an established relationship. Why would a guy conclude that a woman is not interested if they haven’t taken the time to call for days or asked us out?
What gives here? I thought I was applying what you had taught us, that guys reveal themselves in their actions and our job is to “mirror” their effort. So, when I don’t hear from a guy for a week I don’t think I need to call and find out why he isn’t calling. Instead, I assume he is no longer interested. Did someone change the courtship rules while I wasn’t looking? Or, am I incorrectly applying what you have taught?
Alisa
Why would a guy conclude that a woman is not interested if they haven’t taken the time to call for days or asked us out? What gives here?
Dear Alisa,
Let’s say you wanted to lose 10lbs. You’ve read every diet book and every woman’s magazine under the sun and conclude that the simplest way to go about this would be to: eat smaller portions, eat healthier foods, and get to the gym three times a week for cardio. You do exactly that. For one month, you’re a dieting machine (with the occasional dark chocolate and red wine indulgence, of course.) To measure your progress, you get on the scale. You weigh the exact same thing that you did four weeks ago. Does this mean that you SHOULDN’T eat smaller, healthier portions and hit the treadmill regularly? Of course not. It might mean that there’s something else you can tweak, but the basic principles of dieting remain true, regardless of their results.
Mirroring a man’s efforts isn’t nearly as scientific as dieting, of course, but I think it’s pretty hard to contradict this principle:
Men do what they want to do. If he wants to call you, he’ll call. If he wants to see you, he will…
Men do what they want to do.
I’ve said it before and I’m sure I’ll say it again.
But if he wants to call you, he’ll call you.
If he wants to see you, he’ll see you.
If he wants to commit to you, he’ll commit to you.
And if he doesn’t do all of those things, he’s not really a suitable boyfriend, now, is he?
Your observation that men are chiding you for not chasing him down is a valid one. I’ve heard it from other women before and will admit to being perplexed by it. All I can suggest is that these men who need YOU to call THEM are pretty much like women themselves.
Just look at his reaction: a text to tell you that he doesn’t hear from you enough, so it must be over. Hate to say this, but it sounds like a woman to me. I dated my wife for a year and a half before proposing and I don’t think she initiated contact with me once in that time. It’s not because she was playing games. It’s because she knew that if I wanted to talk to her, I’d call her.
Most women don’t have the fortitude to really trust that a guy WILL make the effort for them, so you try to manipulate it subtly: ”
“Hey, I’ve got tickets to the Dodgers on Sunday. Wanna go?”
“Haven’t heard from you in awhile. Is everything okay at work?”
The cold, hard truth is that you shouldn’t HAVE to do anything to remind him that you exist.
The cold, hard truth is that you shouldn’t HAVE to do anything to remind him that you exist. He knows you exist. And if he’s not making every effort for you, there’s really not much to interpret. Sure, you can go back to pursuing feminine men who are apparently too busy/lazy/afraid to say things like “So, what are you doing Saturday?” But where would that leave you?
Powerless.
Because you don’t know if he’s going out with you because he WANTS you or because he’s just filling time. When you don’t do anything, you very quickly figure out where you stand with a guy. Of course, nothing I write is foolproof, Alisa; there are exceptions to every rule. Only you can decide when to apply the rules and when to waive them.
But make no mistake: when we’re hungry, we eat. When we’re tired, we sleep. When we’re interested, we call. It ain’t that complex. And if this passive guy is making excuses and claiming to be hurt that you didn’t pursue him, well boo-hoo-hoo for him. He’ll find a woman that’s more man than he is, and you’ll be free to find a man who actually knows that it’s his role to pursue you. Keep doing what you’re doing, darlin’. Just because it didn’t work with this man doesn’t mean it’s bad advice.
Ouch Evan. you use the term feminine (in guys) like it’s an insult associating the term with lazy/afraid. There was one post i really liked of yours – Marlboro Man vs Sensitive Artist (or something like that). Wouldn’t this be a case of that? If you want the sensitivity, the understanding, the catering to everything a woman wants type, the flip side is he will probably be less brash, cocky, and forward. If she likes this guy enough to work with him and readjust her tactics, ok. If she doesn’t, then your one-size fits-all approach won’t likely work with this champ and that’s ok. She can find someone else who does if that’s what she wants. That’s all 🙂
Im thankful for Evan. I want a Man not a boy or “feminine” man as was the implication.
Alisa;
Your email is actually a validation of Evan’s advice.
Your email just illustrates a case of a guy who is not interested acting like he is not interested.
People ( men AND women ) say all sorts of things they don’t mean in the dating arena. They are playing games, they are unsure of what they want, etc.. What matters is what they do.
I don’t think I’ve told you, Evan, but I seriously love your advice. Witty, fun, and spot on! I think this is going to be one of my favorites, one I’ll come back to and read to remind myself that I can let him be the one to contact me and not vice versa.
“I casually asked what had happened to our date the night before. He apologized profusely telling me he forgot.”
I doubt he forgot….if he did, wow, I can’t imagine he was very excited about this woman, to forget his date with her, come on.
“I told him it was fine and that we could get together another time. He called the next day, but didn’t ask me out for the upcoming weekend.”
Not asking her out again further supports that he didn’t really forget the other date. If he is truly interested in her, he would have been mortified about standing her up and in a hurry to make it up to her.
“I heard nothing from him for 5 days….he sent a text saying that things must be over for us because when I don’t call, I don’t hear from you.”
Game player, now he wants to blame her because she’s not pursuing him enough?
The OP shouldn’t second guess herself. This is not a case of mirroring gone bad, this is a case of the wrong guy on so many levels.
So accurate!
Provided that Alisa was responding to any one-way communications (e-mails, texts, voice mails), then the man didn’t have any reason to stop contacting her.
However, if a woman fails to respond to two consecutive one-way communications (early in the relationship), then I take it as a strong hint that she’s not interested.
Evan said:
“I dated my wife for a year and a half before proposing and I don’t think she initiated contact with me once in that time. It’s […] It’s because she knew that if I wanted to talk to her, I’d call her.”
I don’t believe mirroring has to go quite that far. As long as a guy is initiating calls at least half the time, I’d say that the woman is “mirroring” his behavior, not pursuing.
That said, in Alisa’s case I would say it was definitely the man’s responsibility to make the effort after “forgetting” a date.
I agree with Evan’s advice here that it is best for women to stay receptive to men pursuing and for Alisa to be careful not to pursue him more than he is pursuing her.
And I think Seductress has got it spot on, I agree this being the wrong guy in many levels. Very insightful answer!
.-= Mikko Kemppe – Relationship Coach’s last blog ….Mikko, How Do I Know Where I Stand With This Girl? =-.
Peggy Aug 6th 2009 at 06:27
Ouch Evan. you use the term feminine (in guys) like it’s an insult associating the term with lazy/afraid
I was raised on the Marlo Thomas “Free To Be You And Me” crap when I was a kid. I became a lot happier( and better with women) when I started looking at what people actually do and what actually works with them.
I was raised on “Free To Be You And Me”.
I believe it.
I live it.
I want a partner who ALSO lives it—one who hasn’t bought back into all the old nonsense.
I won’t settle for less.
How how do you “mirror” a text like that?
🙂 Love the new layout! Much easier and cleaner.
.-= Honey’s last blog ….Seducing A Sagittarius Is A Big Pain In My Ass =-.
You don’t.
The ball was in his court and it was up to him to make it up to her for “forgetting” that he stood her up. His last text was meant to trick her into doing all the work / pursue him.
Next!
You weigh the exact same thing that you did four weeks ago. Does this mean that you SHOULDN’T eat smaller, healthier portions and hit the treadmill regularly?
No, it means you’ve lost fat and gained muscle tissue. :-p
you’ll be free to find a man who actually knows that it’s his role to pursue you.
COME ON! Absolutely archaic thinking, if I have to do ALL the contacting, planning and paying and the woman don’t do anything then dating her becomes WORK. I prefer dating to be pleasure for both parties.
Further, if she don’t do anything about contacting me, or subtly suggesting a date. I’ll extrapolate how her don’t do anything attitude will play out in other areas life ie: in being planning a vacation she probably don’t do anything, in bed she probably don’t do anything.
Those first several contacts and dates are crucial, I only have a few e-mails, calls and dates to figure out whether to stay involved or move on, so everything she does is really looked at.
If I’m dating a couple women and really prefer to date only one, all things being equal, the one who expresses some interest in me will get my interest in return.
He’s not saying a woman should just sit back and do nothing *if a man is showing interest*. That’s the key. Feminine Energy is all about responding, not initiating. But the response should be warm, loving, inviting, appreciative….of the efforts. THAT’S now it works.
Wow, this is an interesting topic. I totally agree with Seductress. This is definitely a “game player”. Ambivolent man syndrome. It’s interesting on askmen.com they talk about quite the opposite in some of their advice columns. They are trying to turn the tables and do exactly what this “guy” was doing to Alisa. Well, come on aren’t ya gonna chase me??? Well, what is going to happen if both sexes start to play this game? If Masculine or feminine energy men do this as well as women with masculine or feminine energy we are going to have alot of stuck single people out there. With mirroring who starts the pace or becomes the lead sort to speak? Again, I guess depending on your choice of Masculine or Feminine energy. Alisa, let this one go….on to the next one…wish you the best my dear! Hang in there it’s gonna be a bumpy ride….but like Evan, you can and will find your love, never give up Hope! =D
If he misses a date entirely, he’s a d-bag. Even the most playerish of players won’t commit that foul. At least I wouldn’t.
I understand Aguy’s frustration in #9 above. The first couple of dates are always volatile and it takes a lot of energy to constantly be the chaser. I understand it’s my role and I relish it, but it’s also nice to be appreciated and get an honest effort in return. My chief complaint about women in early dating phases is that they don’t do anything to advance the connection…they simply wait around for things to happen. They wait for you to make that spark happen. They’re takers. And if nothing happens, they say they either didn’t have chemistry or the guy was a player.
Eventually, you run out of energy, and as Aguy stated, if I’m dating a couple of chicks at once, I’ll choose the one putting in the same energy as I am.
My perspective is that the early dating phase is a mutual seduction. You both make moves together. She has to realize that she’s negotiating to get him also.
.-= Lance’s last blog ….Seducing A Sagittarius Is A Big Pain In My Ass =-.
I am with #5 Seductress on this one. A guy who’s truly interested doesn’t “forget” a date. (I wonder who the “friend” was). Why tell a man that is acceptable behavior? I’m all for playing it a bit cool in the beginning, but I would have expressed some hesitancy about seeing this man again. I would have – coolly, not angrily – called him on it. And then, 5 days later, he has the nerve to blame the LW for not calling HIM via text message, when he didn’t even attempt to reschedule right away? Doesn’t sound like a man who is very interested in getting a budding relationship off the ground. Just because a man says you should call or pursue doesn’t mean you should listen. He is either lazy or the dreaded “he’s just not that into you”. This isn’t about mirroring, it’s about not accepting inconsiderate behavior.
#9 Aguy
The LW DID return the man’s calls. She was ready and willing to go out with him again. He stood her up – it is up to him to reschedule the date. We are talking about common courtesy here.
Not calling a guy for a year and a half is more than a bit excessive… Not to mention, passive as hell. Sometimes I want to talk when it’s convenient for me, when it generally works for me, and not wait around until the guy deigns to call. Besides, occasionally stuff happens that I might want to discuss immediately. If we’ve been dating a while, obviously we are close.
As for this letter, I am also inclined to think that the getting offended by her not calling him was an act, an excuse he made up for his own behavior (perhaps because otherwise it’s just way too weird). Everything she describes points to him having met someone else.
It’s different when you’re in an established relationship. More back and forth calling and reaching out can be natural. In the initial dating stage calling/texting a guy first makes him lazy and not trigger his instinct to pursue. Being in your feminine energy isn’t “passive as hell”. It’s actually powerful AF. Just have to shift your mindset to look at it differently. We as a society value masculine energy over feminine energy….which is what “creating action” is. And it’s important in our careers and pursuing life dreams. But in relationships, being in your feminine energy as a woman is more powerful than you can possibly imagine. A lot of men THINK they want to be pursued but then they wonder why they lose interest or the magnetism they initially felt wanes. It’s a very insecure man who wants a woman to pursue.
Btw, I am sure what’s additionally ticking this woman off is that this was the kind of guy to whom she, admittedly, wouldn’t normally give the time of day.
I believe women should pursue but in a different way.
If she is sincerely interested in the man, she needs to give him all the green lights IN PERSON, show she’s happy to hear from him when he calls, give positive body language, eye contact, flirting, showing genuine appreciation for the date he’s taken her on, compliment him, tell him straight out how much she enjoys her time together and when he suggests getting together in the future tell him how much she’d like and look forward to that.
That isn’t ‘doin’ nothin’ as AGUY #9 suggests.
It’s leaving the active pursuit to the man as Evan suggests and the sublte pursuit to the woman.
If a man really likes a woman and he feels like he’s winning, appreciated, desired when he’s with her on the phone or in person, he won’t whine and say “why don’t you ever call me first…..”
Exactly, it’s about receptive interest, showing you like a guy and appreciating his efforts but letting him pursue.
100% agree.
1000% agree.
Hmmm. Time for some cold analysis.
I think the guy in OP’s letter immediately relegated her to bullpen status for whatever reason. It sounds like he had other options he’d prefer to focus on, but trying to keep the OP warming up in the bullpen if necessary.
Bad baseball analogy, but it does work.
And I’ll second (or is that third?) AGUY #9 and Lance #16. Everyone should read those posts, then re-read them.
To Aguy #9,
I think you’re missing the point; a woman wants to be courted and pursued. She wants to be “won”. Now, I could see when the relationship has gone on a while and both people feel comfortable with more initiation on her part, then that’s one thing. But while a man is deciding what his intentions are in regards to a woman, he should be doing the initiating at first. If that’s “work” for you, then how truly interested are you in a woman to begin with?
Bingo. 100% agree.
Lance,
We are just damned if we do and damned if we don’t, aren’t we?
Evan your response is SO SPOT ON. What we women have to remember is that men will generelly say stuff like this when they really are not interested. I am not sure why. Maybe to see if they can get you on the cheap?????? However, actions speaks louder than words and this guy’s actions couldn’t get any louder.
Evan your response is SO SPOT ON. What we women have to remember is that men will generelly say stuff like this when they really are not interested. I am not sure why. Maybe to see if they can get you on the cheap?????? However, actions speak louder than words and this guy’s actions couldn’t get any louder
It’s clear he’s not interested (enough). No man would forget he was going to see you! After such a blatant sign of disinterest, you responded very forgiving and nice. You gave him the message that you can be treated that way. And now he did it again. He covered up his disinterest by telling you a story “that he thought you weren’t interested in him”. Why did he do that? Because from the previous experience with you he thought you would fall for it and be nice and forgiving. Why did he contact you again? In my opinion to have someone on the back burner until the real deal comes around. He’s probably not a bad guy but he’s not interested enough in you. If you start being puzzled by a man’s words, it usually means he’s not showing the actions that come with a man that’s truly interested in you. Please take note of that. The right response, loose interest. We’re not going to be the one for everyone, not even Angelina Jolie. Don’t believe that the chase has to be mutual. Some men think that is true until they meet a woman they truly fall in love with and no effort will be too big. Why settle for less than a man who’s truly crazy about you?
True. You usually need a decent sample size before you decide that anything is bad advice. Unless a reasonable consequence of taking the advice in question is auto-deleterious. In which case change tack after the first near miss.
.-= casualencounters.com/blog’s last blog ….PlentyOfFish review =-.
When a man is interested, HE does the pursuing. When he’s not, he doesn’t. This guy didn’t. Next!
When a man finds “the one,” he doesn’t care if “doing all the work is archaic” or not. He doesn’t think about “rules.” He isn’t interested in games. He just knows he wants to be with that woman and will work as hard as he needs to to get her for himself. It’s in a masculine man’s nature. A guy who is “lazy” with one woman will be all over another one because her, he wants! I’ve seen it over and over.
My husband let the girls and women he dated do most of the chasing — then ran away when they got too interested. Then he met me. Like Evan’s wife, I never initiated contact once during our 6-month courtship leading up to our engagement, except to break our second date because I was sick. Think that deterred him? Ha. He said, “Sorry you’re feeling under the weather, what about next Saturday night?” without taking a breath. I never contacted him because I didn’t have to. I always knew where I stood with him because he told me, and showed me. He never once asked an idiot question like, “How come you don’t call me?” He called me and had no expectations of it being reciprocal. To paraphrase author Greg Behrendt, “This is what it looks like” when a man is truly interested. Anything else is just conversation.
Quite an interesting topic! This guy just wasn’t interested enough, and she let him off the hook too easily for standing her up! But…usually I agree completely with Evan, and here I just don’t see how it would be realistic for me to be with a man and NEVER initiate a call for over a year. When I first read Evan’s original post about “mirroring,” I thought he meant that once a man was calling regularly, that it would be reasonable to do the same thing. (To mirror that action.) That’s what friends do, right? Don’t we also want to be friends with a romantic partner? And… I think this is important, I only call for a reason, with something specific to talk about, or maybe an invitation, which is how I treat my girlfriends. I believe in fair play, so I WILL get concert or theater tickets, and I confirm details before making the purchase, so I will pick up the phone and make the call. I want a man to pursue me, for sure, but I don’t want to take advantage of him, and if he’s treating me well, then I will do the same. Doesn’t that just make for a balanced partnership where both people feel appreciated and respected? That’s what I want. Actually, I won’t accept less.
I think this statement from Barb #23 has a lot of truth in it:
…until they meet a woman they truly fall in love with and no effort will be too big.
People tend to have lots of theories about what they would or wouldn’t do in various situations, but when you meet the right person (or at least what you believe is the right person) people tend to get quite surprised at how many of their rules get thrown out of the window.
This guy sounds like an immature game-playing jerk. Move on!
This isn’t the first time Evan’s given the same advice to women. A guy who’s into you would never not call then break up with you via txt by claiming it’s your fault. What a d-bag.
I am sorry, but is this the emperor’s new clothes? :-
I’ve got a question for Evan & anyone else who wants to answer, does mirroring work for men?
I contact girls online and often the response I get had a whole lot less effort put into it than my email to her had. If her response to me is a fifth as long as my response to her, should I write her a short email too or just give up? If she takes five days to write back to me, should I take five days to write back to her or not give up entirely?
Try to meet up in person with as many people as possible. A person may not be great with words but great in the flesh, or a wonderful wordsmith, but no chemistry. I think emails should be to arrange to meet up.
Here in France there are a few exchanges, then coffee, all within a few days or weeks. None of this interminable messaging and emails. If a woman is hesitant to meet up, move on.
You want to meet an open-minded adventurous woman who sees you as a real person, not a list of ticked boxes.
Also, be spontaneous. She may have taken five days to write back because she was dating someone else and it fizzled out. Or she was excited about emailing another man and he disappeared. Write back when YOU feel like writing back. Don’t take anything personally: think HARD about when you’ve been less than noble: you feel a lot less hurt then! ;D
France Fradet said:
“Try to meet up in person with as many people as possible. A person may not be great with words but great in the flesh, or a wonderful wordsmith, but no chemistry.”
If the person is not great with words, do you really want to marry them, regardless of how great they are in the flesh? I’m married. I can assure you that married people spend a lot more time conversing than they do having sex.
When I was dating, I weeded out the women where I felt no chemistry. I also weeded out the women where we had nothing to talk about. Since I was going to dump a person for either reason, why should it be so important that I meet up with them before learning whether they could converse (instead of meeting them afterward)?
France Fradet said:
“You want to meet an open-minded adventurous woman who sees you as a real person, not a list of ticked boxes.”
That reminds me of a woman that I met at a bar. She was very attractive. She seemed sweet. I got her name and number. I asked her out.
On our first date, I quickly learned that she could/would only talk about two things:
1. How wonderful I am.
2. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus.
She was the most attractive woman that I ever dated, and I dumped her after the first date. I would have preferred to dump her during the first date, but I didn’t want to be rude.
In some ways, the date was educational. I learned that I actually do tire of hearing someone tell me how terrific I am. It becomes boring surprisingly quickly, in fact.
I had a more enjoyable time on the first date with the morbidly obese woman. Zero chemistry, but least I got a moderately entertaining conversation out of that date.
You can jump right into first dates instead of getting to know the person first. That will tend to increase the number of bad first dates you have. On the other hand, the worst dates frequently end up becoming the best stories later on … so there is a plus side.
“He called on his way home from the friend’s house but didn’t call back that evening when he said he would. So, I called him and left a message.”
Again, give the man a chance to do what he says he’s going to do. This is something I have struggled with, because I’m a proactive person and it’s hard for me not to push or sit back and wait sometimes. But I’ve learned that the more effort I have to make, the less likely it is that the relationship will succeed. Men, like the ones on this blog, always say that want a woman to be aggressive, but when we are, it doesn’t work. Men who are interested show it.
EMK, wow, your wife-to-be showed tremendous restraint while you were dating, to never have initiated one call over all that time! Either that, or you must have constantly stepped up and never missed a beat!
Aggressive at demanding respect, and in bed, and about her values and protecting what’s important to her. But not aggressive in courting! That’s being a man.
Been Through the Wars (25) is so spot on! I love the example and it’s SO true.
Guys say all kinds of things. They have all kinds of “rules” and requirements, but the minute they meet a girl they really, really, REALLY want, it’s all out the window.
My dad never really talked about the women he dated before my mother, but he did say that he would ONLY date tall, blond women. Every woman he met he judged by an impossible set of requirements that fit his fantasy of the perfect woman. Then he met my mother and he was a goner. My mother is 4’11” and dark, but my dad is as crazy about her 37 years later as he was the day he met her. Maybe more so.
Ok, it’s not the same as mirroring, but I also know SHE DIDN’T CALL HIM!!! He did all the persuing. Granted that was another age, but men haven’t really changed all that much. At the end of the day, if a man truly likes a woman, he will do just about ANYTHING to be with her. He will call her, he will set up dates as soon as he can, he will persue her like mad and she doesn’t need to do anything. A few thousand years of evolution really hasn’t changed the male instinct for hunting or the female desire for persuit. That’s just the way we roll.
The key, as a modern woman, is to remember that and not drive yourself up the wall trying to figure out how to get some guy to like you and commit to you. If he’s the right guy, you won’t have to.
.-= FrogPrincess’s last blog ….Day of the D-Bags =-.
Literally, men GIVE of themselves and we RECEIVE. You just have to look at our bodies: they’re a perfect fit, but it’s the man who penetrates US, and not the other way round. This is a basic fact of life. Wise women have known this for millennia.
There’s a French saying: l’homme propose, la femme dispose. The man shows interest, the woman decides if she’s interested. If you stick to this rule you won’t be disappointed. Men are the rulers of the planet ladies, sad but true. A man who is interested and knows you are too, will be very determined indeed, and LOVE you fighting him off in the beginning.
I agree with the guys. I’m a very busy man (a physician), and interested in several women. The woman who actively expresses interest by taking the initiative will get my attention (and dates) more than the passive (or mirroring) woman.
But there’s an art to flirting and getting your attention surely? I mean, French women will NEVER EVER EVER ask a man out, but will make it clear through flirting that they’re open to suggestions…
I tend to think that men that are more interested in getting laid than anything else like it when women are aggressive.
I’ve observed that men that are interested in getting to know women to see if there is a possible fit for a relationship prefer women to be receptive (as in obviously receptive to their advances, not coy to the point of madness) and assertive when appropriate (as in when going along with plans or something she doesn’t like would cause her to show resentment towards him later, just saying no at the outset).
No one wants to feel that their advances are unwanted or like they are bothering someone and at the same time, no one wants to feel like you always beat them to the punch.
I agree with Evan that women should let him take the lead with making plans and contact in the beginning, and I agree with Seductress that when he does, women should let him know that she is happy that he did! (if that is indeed the case)
Acting totally reserved and uninterested until some imaginary milestone has been reached just means that at some point in the future, she’s going to start acting like a whole different person. And who likes that?
In the OP’s case, I think the guy pulled quite a punk move but if she felt compelled to respond she could’ve said ‘oh really, i just figured you were busy. how’s your week been?’ throwing the ball back in his court and seeing what he does. If he doesn’t play, he just doesn’t play. But if I were her I think i would’ve just taken my ball and gone home.
I think my response would have been different. When the guy didn’t call later that evening as he said he would, I would not have left him a message. While he voluntarily called on his way home from his friend’s house, she doesn’t mention that he apologized and explained his forgetfulness until after he responded to her message. At the least, he should have shared this during that first call heading home. I think he would not have even called her a second time, if not for her message the next day.
Putting curiosity aside, his actions: the forgotten date, lagging phone contact, and no desire to reschedule showed that the date meant little to him, so why bother asking what happened. Who cares. He didn’t deserve her further attention.
I am glad she didn’t continue to call him. This would have left no doubt in his mind that his earlier behavior was acceptable. Perhaps it was his ego that made him feel that she should be willing to chase him. I wonder about this because of how she commented that she opened up to someone she might not would have in the past. Whatever his thinking, it sounds like a “tit for tat” approach or someone intentionally playing games and that’s juvenile.
Evan is right about tweaking our experiences, of course, rather than throwing out the basic principle. And while it’s frustrating and perplexing as always, we DO learn, even when “there’s nothing to learn.” 😉 Good luck.
I think a interesting topic for discussion would be when advice conflicts. For example, Evan says to women, let men make the first move, and mirror their interest. While I have seen other dating advice coaches (for men) say to let women make the first move because it shows that they’re interested, and you only want to date the women who ARE interested.
You know, it might delve down into the level of control and choice. If we have someone who is really interested in us, we have the control in the relationship, and we have the choice whether to keep the relationship going or not. I would think that both men and women want that in their relationship, that control and the choice.
Can anybody also suggest any other situations where you would get conflicting advice? Perhaps on how soon you should call after a first date, or if you should call at all after a first date or leave it to the other person. Evan, do you have any clients who come to you with conflicting advice given by other people that would go against what you’re saying?
Heck, sometimes you should just throw the rules of dating out the window and just go for it. :p
As far as the OP goes, everyone’s pretty spot on that the guy was a complete tool and that she’s well rid of him.
But as far as the issue of mirroring goes, it’s generally worked for me. But I don’t take it to the extremes that some do (18 months without calling you!!!). For instance, if we’ve already had 2-3 dates and I see an e-mail about an interesting event, I might forward it on to see if he’d like to go.
It may also be a regional thing. Down in the south there are a lot of guys who expect to do the pursuing and find it disturbing if that’s not the case. And almost invariably they will NOT allow a woman to pay. I’m thinking maybe about 5-10% of the guys have let me pick up any kind of meal (and some of those guys only let me pay for after-dinner ice cream). Perhaps in more “modern” places that’s not that case, and guys are more willing to be pursued. But I doubt it. I think if they were really into you, they’d be doing all of the chasing.
I agree with Jennifer’s comment: “I tend to think that men that are more interested in getting laid than anything else like it when women are aggressive. I’ve observed that men that are interested in getting to know women to see if there is a possible fit for a relationship prefer women to be receptive…”
That’s definitely been my experience. Men that haven’t a) taken the time to get to know me and b) have wanted me to be the agressor (make all the plans, contact them first, etc) have been interested in only one thing: an easy lay. When they didn’t get it, they moved on very quickly. Those who have persued me and have been interested in actually getting to know me as a person, seemed to be more interested in a relationship, even if ultimately it wasn’t me they wanted for that relationship.
My girl friends who are very out there and agressive, making the first move and calling and what not get loads of guys. And I mean LOADS of guys. Unfortunately those guys are only interested in sex, nothing else, and often treat my friends with little or no respect. My friends that allow men to persue them (and trust me, these women are not “passive” in any way, as some guys on this site are labelling women who mirror) tend to attract men who are serious about wanting a real relationship. Using lack of time as an excuse is a total cop-out. If you really want something, you make time.
.-= FrogPrincess’s last blog ….Day of the D-Bags =-.
I think the key point here is to reasonably apply the principle. There are always going to be exceptions to any rule or situation, but overall the mirroring concept is one that works for me. I’ve proven to myself over & over again (I can be very dense sometimes) that if I pursue instead of mirroring his behavior, that’s the pattern that will continue and will be what’s required to keep the relationship — lame as it may be — alive. Relationships that have been successful for me have been the result of the guy being proactive from the start. Call it archaic, call it passive, call it whatever you want, but I’m sticking with what works. Oh yea, Key Point: that DOESN’T mean I act coy or disinterested when he pursues. I express clearly that I’m glad to hear from him, I listen to what he says & give feedback, and I don’t pick apart every suggestion he makes. I show interest & tell him I appreciate his efforts. That isn’t game playing or even a “rule,” it’s a method for successfully getting the type of relationship I want, not to mention just plain common courtesy.
Alisa, I’ve met this same guy under various names, over & over…the one who forgets dates and who basically just doesn’t do what he says he’s gonna do. My women friends and my daughter have met him, too. He defends his behavior by spinning it out like it’s somehow your fault — not calling him, playing hard to get, blah blah blah. It’s manipulation, designed to put you on the defensive & get the focus off his lazy, lousy behavior. Run in the opposite direction of this dude and don’t look back. We all deserve better.
Dr. Bobguy. You really have not met anyone that you are head over heels about. When you do, you will change.
Didn’t they have a line in Ghosts of Girlfriends Past – “The power in a relationship lies with whoever cares less.” It sure seems that way in the initial stages of dating. O_o
To A-L #37, your mentioning that you might send an email about an interesting event reminds me of the advice from another very popular “for women” dating and relationship expert that says that guys find unpredictability highly attractive in a woman. An example that he provides is when a woman calls a guy out of the blue, or out of the norm for their situation and introduces a fun and new idea for a date. Or when he hasn’t called for a few days, rather than grilling the guy, keep the conversation light and unpredictable, like simply saying, “Hey, it’s great to hear from you. How are you doing?” This doesn’t mean she shouldn’t express her feelings later; it’s all in how and when she expresses them. The idea is that he’ll be more receptive and understanding, and he will actually open up more to her as well. Does it work? I don’t know.
I agree about the intensity of mirroring. I love the concept, but little is black and white in my mind.
After a few weeks of dating one man, and seeing him almost every day, he said to me one day rather woefully, “You never call me.” The reason I never called him was because he had 2, sometimes 3 jobs going on. I don’t call anyone at work unless it’s necessary – it can be construed as a nuisance. But I got his point. He was feeling I didn’t care as much as he did because I never called him. I started calling him a half hour before he left his first job thinking that would be when his work would least interrupted.
We ended up living together for years and it became a habit for us to check in with each other once or twice during the day. A habit that started when we were dating and kept us connected.
I get it about thinking your bf will call you when he wants to talk…but, I can’t imagine going for a year and a half without wanting to call and talk to my boyfriend for some reason or other myself. I’m certain actually, that the ones I was close to would have taken my never calling as a sign that I didn’t care or was mad about something. I do believe mirroring goes both ways. Particularly after a relationship has been established.
In Alisa’s case I agree with JuJu’s assessment #14: Every thing she describes points to him seeing someone else. Possibly a former girlfriend. Rather explains every action. Stands her up. While over at a “friend’s” house. Doesn’t call when he said he would. Doesn’t reschedule missed date. Doesn’t call for 5 days, then sends a text blaming the lack of communication on her.
I think he was fishing with the text. Since she didn’t rip him a new one for standing her up, the text was a way to test the waters regarding the possibility of keeping her for “backup” if the other woman he was involved with didn’t work out. Fits perfectly with an ex scenario.
Alisa, if you have a daughter who’s dating you need to be dating grownups yourself. This…um… person, isn’t one of them. Since he wasn’t on your A-list to begin with, you have validation about the wisdom of going with your gut feelings.
I second the poster who said this situation is not about mirroring.
Lance #16
“Eventually, you run out of energy, and as Aguy stated, if I’m dating a couple of chicks at once, I’ll choose the one putting in the same energy as I am.”
BobGuy #33
“The woman who actively expresses interest by taking the initiative will get my attention (and dates) more than the passive (or mirroring) woman.”
Wait, don’t you ultimately go after the woman you like best and are most attracted to? You mean to say that there isn’t a stronger feeling for one woman over the others? When I’ve dated more than one person, eventually one man stands out over the others, even if I’m not sure initially.
@ A.L. # 37
“It may also be a regional thing.”
In more “modern” places there are more (many) “agressive” women. That is making de “modern” men lazy an they loose their focus. Modern women are very often in shape, goodlooking and hip and I guess that is very often enough for those lazy guys. I think they don’t know how to be choosy anymore, so they pick the girl who makes more efforts.
Mirroring in my mind is a way for women to see what they are getting and to not go over board, which many of us do when we meet someone we real like. It is a way to pace yourself and to get you to see clearly how he is proceeding. You see what he does and you reciprocate. After a while you began to realize whether or not the guy is seriously interested or not.
AJ #47
I think it’s exactly that. And I’ve been doing mirroring for decades before I ever knew it was actually a concept. If a man doesn’t call me for a week, it’s a clear indication that he’s not all that interested. That I’m “back burner” for him. Calling him every day or two isn’t going to change that.
If I were a guy and a woman took 5 days to return my call, I’d conclude the same thing. It’s a bit like a tennis match to begin with. You lob the ball over and see if it is returned. If the other person isn’t interested enough to lob the ball back you, go find someone else to play with.
What? 1.5 years and she never called you or suggested an idea for a night out? That’s just…strange. I mean, it may have worked for you, but it’s certainly not the gold standard to me. Relationships are about companionship and communication, and if you can’t feel free to communicate when you want, if everything is a sort of stilted game, then I don’t think it’s something that would really be satisfying to me, personally.
Now, I do definitely agree with the truism that if a man is interested he’ll make an effort and you won’t have to wonder about his intentions — at the beginning. But once you get into a groove with each other, you’re just in a groove, and who’s keeping score about who called whom at that point?
And I’d also warn the ladies that taking this “mirroring” concept too literally can actually sabotage things at the beginning. If you don’t communicate that you’re interested in the guy somehow (verbally or non), he won’t pursue you. BOTH parties have to stick their necks out a little and show that they like each other. Letting the guy take the lead on the formal stuff — like asking for dates — does not let you off the hook. No man is going to pursue a woman who’s giving off “stay away” signals, and I know from personal experience that trying to hard to passively “mirror” a guy’s interest level can end up making a girl seem so cautious that the guy assumes she’s not interested.
The guy in this scenario has committed a number of serious goofs that make him not worth pursuing at all.
But leaving that guy out of things totally, i.e., dealing with this subject in a general way, I don’t think I’ve ever read anything that seemed more representative of my thinking and those of a group of 40 and 50 something guys that I know, than the following from #9 above. For me and my peers, a woman who understands the philosophy expressed there has a 45 yard lead in the 50 yard dash, as compared to those that don’t.
“…COME ON! Absolutely archaic thinking, if I have to do ALL the contacting, planning and paying and the woman don’t do anything then dating her becomes WORK. I prefer dating to be pleasure for both parties.
Further, if she don’t do anything about contacting me, or subtly suggesting a date. I’ll extrapolate how her don’t do anything attitude will play out in other areas life ie: in being planning a vacation she probably don’t do anything, in bed she probably don’t do anything.
Jneil,
Yes, you point out some major issues there. I’ve been corresponding with a fellow who thinks I should do all the initiating and travel to him but he insists he will be in control of the relationship. He can take it or leave it. That tells me all I need to know and for once, I’m going to be a smart girl and not ignore that red flag. I think it’s high time to cut this loose and move on. I’m worth a lot more than that, and I’ll hold out for the guy who recognizes it. I’m grateful this post is here because something was not setting well with me about that situation and there’s a reason it wasn’t.
To starthrower #18
She wants to be won….If that’s work for you, then how truly interested are you in a woman to begin with?
I’m absolutely interested in a woman who’s open to a relationship of complimenting people, where we are equally mature and no one is treated as a prize to be won.
To Ava #45
Wait, don’t you ultimately go after the woman you like best and are most attracted to? You mean to say that there isn’t a stronger feeling for one woman over the others?
Sure, I may prefer woman A over woman B, but when I weigh in that it’ll probably take 6 months for woman A to reciprocate my level of interest vs. 2 months for woman B. Woman B starts to look a whole lot better. I am not talking solely about being intimate either. Please understand I’m mid 50s, divorced and date women of a similar age. To me time is the most valuable thing I have.
Sam #30, to answer your questions – first of all, when you email women, are they longer than a paragraph? Or are they brief and specific about someting in her profile?
I ask because I’ve received emails from guys that have been doctoral essays. And I’m not a huge email writer, especially after having been on the computer all day @ work. So if I’m into the guy and his email is very long, I’ll respond briefly.
But if your messages are brief and thoughful, and her’s no more “ok, what’s up with you”, then that might be a sign.
re: timing, she may take a while to respond initially because she’s on vacation, or maybe her company blocks personal email, but if it’s chronic (one day for you, 5 days for her), then that could be a sign.
And the poster who asked for how long to wait to call a girl, if you like her, call her the next day, definitely don’t wait. In my experience, a guy who’s into me will call the next day. If he waits longer than a few days, I take it he’s not serious about a relationship or that he’s playing games (and all of my past relationships have started out w the guy calling the next day). Any woman who takes this as an act of despiration is either not that into you or not looking for a serious relationship.
I agree with downtowngirl. My experience has also been the same: anyone who was really interested me always called the next day. When a man waits several days to call, a week, it’s always been an indication that he was just looking for something very casual. Perhaps a booty call.
Wow so many assumptions here. I don’t rush and call anyone right away. I do not give out my number, as single Mom, I do the calling and initially block my number the first time. Depending on how much information they give and how safe I feel, and with interest, I give out my number. Hell I am busy, I don’t even go online everyday. Hopefully, there are men out there that realize this and do not think I am not interested if I do not respond immediately. I do have friends that spend large amounts of time online, daily. Not me. Maybe I will have to find my guy the old fashion way. These comments have given me alot to think about.
AJ, we were discussing a guy’s follow up after a first date, rather than whether or how soon you should give your number. Your concerns are legitimate and shared by many women.
Actually, when it comes to online dating, I’ve found many guys to be respectful, giving me their #’s first then asking me for mine, saying they can call me if I feel more comfortable, but either way would like to take the connection further. Or if you explain that you would prefer to make the initial call, the good guys wouldn’t take this as a turn-off, then you can explan your situation once you speak w them and feel more comfortable.
But it seemed like people were making assumptions based on he initial response time. A few days and you were’t viewed as serious.
AJ,
I was speaking of AFTER a date. With online dating, who would you consider to be most interested in you? The guy who emails you back promptly? Or the one who drops you a line after several days, a week? What if you were THE GUY doing the emailing?
Everyone gets busy from time to time, but how much effort does it take to type a few lines to someone? Personally I’d wonder if someone was too busy to shoot me a short email, how much time are they going to have to spend with me in person? And that’s the point you want to get to isn’t it? Spending time with someone in person – lol. Busy comes across as not interested enough, or perhaps not sure, if you’ve never met.
Selena
I guess. But for example I am going on vacation Friday for 10 days and not planning on checking emails work or otherwise. I am not taking my laptop and at most I may use the hotel’s coputer once or twice but it wont be daily. Any guys that contact during that time will assume I have no interest. The reality is I am not sure at this juncture and my interest will grow or not as I get to know you. What’s the rush? Instant gratification or move on. I think that is why online doesn’t work for most people. I can sense when I do contact some guys the resentment , now that is a turn off. I want someone who is open to the possibilities and not so quick to judge. I have guys contact me after an initial contact I made a while ago and I am cool with that. My late husband and I use to laugh about how he made quite a few attempts to date me and I did not intially respond. I was coming out of another relationship and needed some time. But when we finally came together it was great. Life is all about timing and people need to give each other some IMO.
I am not saying wait around but when somepne reaches out, regardless of the time. Take the time to make a honest assessment. Don’t assume
Adding to Selena’s comment, I also think that there is more vested after you meet someone. If a guy’s interested AFTER meeting you, he should follow up promptly.
Before you get to that point, I think there’s not as much you can expect, just go with your gut.
I think the beauty of it all is that people with similar preferences find each other- those who prefer faster responses end up selecting those who prefer to wait out and vice versa. So it all works out in the end.
Jennifer,
If it were that simple we would all be hooked up, Lol Actually complements work better when it comes to relatioships.
@AJ I know what you mean and I agree! But I’m saying that if I like a quick response guy, and I meet guy that takes a week to call me back, i’ll no longer be interested in him. Then I won’t have to struggle with him taking longer than I prefer to do things and he won’t have to deal with always feeling rushed by me, cause we won’t be dating!
The only catch is figuring out your preferences and sticking to them…I think that’s where people (myself included, in the past anyway) make things difficult for ourselves.
Jennifer,
I think the difficulty comes for many women with over-analyzing and investing too much feeling and emotion so early in the dating process. We tend to “fall” for guys after a few conversations and maybe one date. You cannot tell from a response time online how someone operates in their life necessarily. Case in point, I am not a fast responder online, yet I do everything else really fast ie.. walk, talk, think…etc. My friends call me speedy. I really believe that we all have to take our time, don’t get caught up and invest feeling too early, and do not make assumptions.
Hi! I’m a little late to the discussion, but I’ve been using the mirroring technique with the guy I’m currently dating. We don’t have any major drama, but I noticed that he started to pull back some and become a little distant after a whirlwind, intense one-month courtship. He went from emailing and texting every morning, IMing throughout the day and us hanging out every weekend, to not being online and contacting me sporadically and limited contact.
I figured he must be freaking out that he’s losing his freedom and needed some space. I was freaking out inside, but I kept it in and just mirrored his actions. I didn’t initiate any contact or ask him what was going on. Finally, after five days he texted me to ask if I was distancing myself from him! I was shocked that he put our lack of contact on me!
Instead of reacting negatively, I just said responded a few hours later saying “Hey! Sorry I just got your text! How are you?” I didn’t even acknowledge his question. Now he’s contacting me on a more regular basis and he’s always online. I think by saying “Must be over” Alisa’s guy was trying to re-establish contact, but did so in a whiny and emotional way.
Ordinarily, I would have freaked out and caved in after a day or so, but I held my ground and typed up what I wanted to say, but I didn’t send it. I waiting patiently, but anxiously for him to come back around and he did. We have a good thing going, so I also took that into consideration. I’m going to keep using this mirroring concept while using my common sense. Sometimes men need ego boosts and the periodic short and sweet or maybe racy text can do that. I just won’t do it so that he’ll come to expect it.
Ah, such a timely blog Evan! I’ve had 3 good (really good) dates with a guy, but he hasn’t been in touch for 4 days. When we first started dating I stuck to the mirroring concept (even though it was killing me ha ha) and he always followed up, always text first, asked me out again. Now, we seem to have stalled. I haven’t been in touch with him since his last text – and I have always replied to his texts promptly, always showed appreciation. He might get in touch again, he might not. But I’m sticking to my guns because being the pursuer has NEVER worked for me in the past. It’s a rough ride, but I’m going to trust that if it’s right, and if he’s into me – well, he’ll be in touch. If not, then I’ll pick myself up, dust myself off and get right back out there. I’m learning so much from Evan’s blogs – to be honest, even getting to 3 dates is progress for me, so I know what I’m doing is working 🙂
To the men saying that its work you sound like you want the best of both words. But trust me when one of those girls stop showing interest or you meet someone who you want you will do anything to make her know you exist. Men like to pursue and women like to be chased just like Evan says. When a girl chases the guy he feels like it’s no challenge at all and give up cause he really didn’t winner her over. It like for instance you want to well at work so you dress nicely, you try to impress you boss and you work hard an receive a reward for your hard work. You feel so much better than if it was handed to you. Here is a true story that proves my point. One of my close friends at high school she had a huge crush on one of the most pursued guys. She wanted him to notice her so she went out of her way to chase him. She eventually gave up as she felt he was never going to chase back so she stopped contacting and pursuing him. Months later mutual friends started asking her why she stopped and suddenly he always turned up at events she was present. Even while dating a significant other he went out his way do you know why cause all of sudden the girl who always made the effort wasn’t making effort anymore and he was the one who wanted her to know he is alive. Truth is sometime people don’t know what they have until it gone it may take them days; weeks, month or years before they realise they want you and miss you in their life. If they want you they make it known no matter how many people they have throwing themselves at them because they want you.
Hey, does mirroring include ‘actions’? So this guy has made me dinner twice and weve dated for a month. He wants to meet over the weekend and suggest seeing a improve show. Should I say ‘I will bring dinner’ or should I just let him continue to do everything? I feel bad that he is always ‘planning’, ‘cooking’, ‘deciding’ everything for us and I need to put a little input into it. So should I bring dinner? or just go with flow and be appreciative if he makes dinner again? Does mirroring include ‘mirroring’ efforts? He cooks me dinner, I cook him dinner too? I dont know lol. HELP
Lilly @ 69
Mirroring is great to prevent women from being too aggressive and pursuing a man. If I’ve been dating you for a month I would expect you to start coming up with ideas for dates, calling me when you want to talk, inviting me over, fixing me dinner, etc. I’d appreciate it if you initiated a kiss on occasion too! LOL 🙂
I have to say I think isabelle archer’s comment @ 49 was very wise.
Mirroring is all very well but I think it should be taken to mean on a general level. Generally you are as committed to him as he is to you. Generally you have confidence that he *will* contact you, but you don’t fear contacting him, and on the whole, contact is initiated more or less equally, with it perhaps being a bit weighted on the guy’s side.
I don’t think this rule should be interpreted to make you feel like you should deny your personality if you are expressive and communicative, or that you should never contact a guy. I think if you interpret it that way you run the risk of stilting the natural flow of communication, and of not giving yourself opportunities to clear up simple misunderstandings when life’s ups and downs may cause lapses in communication, instead of stewing.
I know Evan said his wife never initiated contact the whole time they were dating and I think it’s wonderful that he was secure enough to know exactly what this was, and it obviously worked out well for them. But I know for the guys I have loved, they would have enjoyed receiving the *occasional* loving message or phone call, and at times welcomed my suggestions of activities to do together.
What I mean is that, whilst my boyfriend does the majority of initiating of contact, there are times when he is under stress and doesn’t, and during those times I reach out to him. I get the feeling he appreciates it.
As I say, I think it has to do with the overall tone and feel of the relationship. If it has a natural, happy flow to it, and is overall reciprocal, I don’t think there is a reason to get too stressed about rules. I have noticed that whilst it is true that a guy will contact you if he wants to speak to you, he will also make himself available to be contacted if he wants to hear from you.
If the channels of communication are all of a sudden shut down *that’s* when you should worry.
I’ve noticed a lot of men these days, especially in my age group (late 20s-early 30s) seem to be stuck on having a woman do equal or semi-equal pursuing during courtship…Did other women “train” them to think they should be like this? Are they using game playing tactics or just insecure? Not all that interested? All of the above, likely. I think they are just up to finding some sort of self-validation and trying to get women to chase them or plain confused. I mean they will take the lead in terms of taking me out, etc. But after a certain point when it’s still just dating, they ask why I am not contacting them during courtship or let me know I can call them sometimes. I don’t ignore these guys and give them all the positive cues that I am interested to let them know it’s ok to stay in touch.
At least I’m finding it easy with all men to just let them come to me, like Evan’s wife who didn’t initiate any contact. It feels natural; reaching out to men when I didn’t hear from them didn’t feel natural at all. Reaching out made me feel insecure since sometimes I wouldn’t get a reply or not be sure whether or not he really wanted to see me or if he was just being nice. Without taking initiative it’s easy to figure out how the guy feels and more relaxing, even if I dislike the answer sometimes. :-/ I find it so natural that I know the right man for me wouldn’t mind to always take the initiative while I just “lean back” as dating coach Rori Raye says it.
Hi Evan ! I’ve read a lot of your advice and I love it ! Yes, it really does work ! This is my first post to you and I must say that you speak the truth ! In my opinion too many women waste time pining over men who are not right for them. Also, you can’t depend on e-mails and texts to determine a real relationship ! Nothing can take the place of meeting someone in person, spending time with them and really getting to know them as a human being. All of this takes time and if a man isn’t willing to spend real quality time with you there is something very wrong. There is no point in wasting one ounce of your precious time on them. Women need to face the truth and not get caught up in illusion. Men will always spend time and money to do the things that they enjoy. If a woman is waiting for a man to treat her right it won’t happen. Anytime you have to remind someone how to treat you they are not worth having in your life ! In closing I would like to wish you all the best in your great works, Evan ! You are a true source of light who will help many people in the coming years ! All the best to you !
One possible explanation for this man’s behavior is that he is a human being. We are, all of us, looking for love and affection in one form or another, and through the many hurts that we experience in this lifetime, we learn to be fearful and afraid of putting ourselves out there. We fear rejection and hurt.
My advice? Save your money on dating books, etc. and live your life with compassion. Do what feels right. Don’t engage in relationships that feel hurtful or confusing. Take responsibility for your own pain and heal yourself. Walk through this earth with compassion for others, which includes dropping judgments about what’s properly “masculine” or “feminine.”
Ladies, if you like a guy, fucking text him. You have the right to declare and seek what you want from this world and from relationships.
i like how you said, when we are hunger we eat, when we are tired we sleep…. Confidence Confidence Confidence… this is why i wanted to develop a special app that does a couple of things
1) app allows lady to enter in a telephone number which tells phone not to to call or text #
2) the app also has anayltics such as the number calling in is either 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 man depending on how many times #/man has initiated contact with you
3) send simple awesome messages to the ladies such as you are wonderful, dont settle
its just an idea, and it will not solve womans immediate confidence issues, but it will help her not call a man that she clearly is needing attention from. its one of the hardest things not to do is chase a guy.
Thank you Evan. Your advice is straightforward. I used to be the girl who called, texted, and jumped up and down waving my hands in the air. After reading your literature, I don’t anymore. A real man will pursue me. In the meantime, I am enjoying my life.
Alisa, thank you for asking that question and thanks Evan for the very good and honest answer. It helps me alot and gives me a sense of focus cos I’m actually living the same life. I’m experiencing te same situation. I now know exactly what to do. Thanks a million
there seem to be many guys like that nowadays and it is really tiring. They have issues expressing their emotions or being emotional honest. such as, they like or not like you, but they are not capable of being direct about it. Can’t imagine to live with a partner like that for the rest of my life. like Evan says, u get what you accept! Seriously thinking to weed out more men.
I agree with Steve. And I also think that instead of calling this guy’s unusual behaviour “feminine,” I think it’s more likely he’s just basically looking for an ego stroke, and playing games in order to achieve this, such as pretending to be genuinely interested, when he’s really just interested in the attention. I’ve noticed people with low self esteem do this often–men and women. When someone really likes them, they milk them for the ego boost it gives them. If he were genuinely interested, he wouldn’t send a text like “I guess it’s over for us, cause you haven’t been calling.”, like, “Oh, well, too bad for you, you missed out on this great opportunity to date me.”
I think this is most likely the correct interpretation of this guy’s behavior.
Another possibility maybe is that this way, in his own perception, he is making somebody else out to be the a-hole. Deep down he knows his behavior was less than noble, but making this ridiculous proclamation justifies it to himself.
Either way, LW: this is weak, worthless, inconsequential man, whom you really shouldn’t fret over. Deciphering his motivation is not worth your energy. In fact, I would say that with most of these unfortunate dating experiences the best thing you can do is just move on with your search. If you get bogged down in analysis of each individual case, you will become bitter and depressed. Based on my own experience, trying to figure out such men’s reasons is unproductive – what you need is instead to find a man who will be considerate and respectful.
Oh Evan, you are ALWAYS RIGHT! I love your blog and thank you for clarifying that which shouldn’t be but is so complicated.. I literally feel like your whole site could be called “Dating Advice for Jennifer” as there isn’t a word you have said/wrote that doesn’t ring true for me. I have bought Why He Disappeared and Believe in Love.. probably will have a whole library of yours by the time I am done but you know what – it helps! Actually I am making progress.. slow yet steady.. or steadier than before. I had a guy I met and followed all your advice, things were great for a while until a few months in he started to drift away, almost no phone calls and only the occasional text and no plan making. I did what you said and just let him go politely, he came back 3 weeks later trying to grasp to hold on to his ‘easy thing’ but I sent him away and am still on the hunt. I know I am blabbing but I want you to know how helpful you are! Much appreciation <3 Jennifer
I think the guy who pursued for more than 7 months just a serial killer, no joke. I played the hard to get for last 7 months and told him we might not be compatible with each other at the beginning. He was willing to change himself to make me happy, and then we had this conversations for more than 7 months and i decided to see what kind of person he is. When the first time we met each other, he was just like a gentleman that what woman wanted and then after second date, he started to tell me those truth about he was not serious and look for friend who is girl, not a girlfriend. That’s the only reason that I agreed to come out to see him because I want to have a stable relationship, no matter how long its, but i want to be courted and respected. I did slept with him too earlier because we had a strong lust chemistry between each other. So i stopped to seeing him after that and he kept texting me for another two month. I just try to smooth everything out and let it go. And he kept coming back for more, I decided to give this FWB a shot and I knew he would hurt me another time, the sex was great and he just turn into a total asshole. Here are two things that I have learnt from this guy, no matter how long a guy chasing you, they could be fake. If they started to lose their respect for you, cut them lose right away. I have to thank this guy for teaching me a good lesson. I need to focus more on my career and overcome the fear and doubts that i always have. Like my mom said if man loves you, they will be yours, if not, just have fun and keep your heart for yourself.
Mirroring is the worst dating advice. I am usually in the position of being pursued and it makes me sick and tired of guys who mirror my behavior. Imagine someone copies your behavior. It creeps me out!
Alisa my view is the guy is manipulative and you should go no contact…. He forgot because he is narcissistic and came back to put the blame on you to test your boundaries. This is not “feminine” as much as a red flag for sociopathic manipulator. Who forgets a date??? Even if you’re not really into the person it is abnormal. I would have blown him off immediately bc you will end up hurt. His shit test this early tells you how bad it will be if you accept it. He likely keeps you as a back burner option as scammers always-have multiple targets (women) so he doesn’t want to lose you as a supply (attention, sex, money, validation, whatever he sees in you) Online dating is full of narcs because it makes it easier for them.