If Men Like Only Hot Women, Where Does That Leave an Average Woman Like Me?

photo of a blonde woman

Dear Evan,

Why do dating experts for men teach them how to get the hottest women possible? Unlike women, they are rarely told to date someone they might not find attractive at first because she might grow on him. As an average looking woman (I am fit, well-groomed and fashionable, but I know that I am not a bombshell. I don’t make people gag, but I don’t turn heads either.), I feel that no man is going to find me desirable because all men feel that they deserve and can get the hottest woman out there. Just where does that leave women like me?  


Dear Tia-Maria,

Thank you, thank you, thank you for asking this question. A few months ago, I promised to write a post about shallow men, and this note from you is the perfect excuse.

First, a story:

When I started writing Why You’re Still Single, back in early 2005, I was working with a different woman than my eventual partner, Linda Holmes. This original partner was a noted matchmaker who brought a certain credibility to my pet project — she’s experienced in her field, she’s telegenic, she knows plenty about single people, etc.

One of the first chapters I completed was called “The Beauty Myth Is Not a Myth.” It didn’t necessarily debunk Naomi Wolf’s seminal work, but it did establish one very important concept that women need to understand: Men are as shallow as advertised. And while women can beat their heads against a wall, wishing that this were not true, they’re fighting a real losing battle if they expect men to stop worshipping at the altar of beauty.

Like much of my advice, it can rub a woman the wrong way. But I wasn’t condoning the behavior, I was merely reporting it. This is what men do, whether we like it or not. Yet my writing partner felt so unnerved by my stance, that her version of the “Beauty Myth” chapter only served to contradict everything I had written.

She mentioned that she was in the business of connecting souls.

She stated that as men mature, they learn to appreciate inner beauty.

She encouraged women to hold out for the kind of guy who isn’t as focused on the outer packaging.

That’s when I fired her from the project.

I tell this story not to make myself look good (clearly), but because I refused to put out a book that gave bad advice. And make no mistake about it — telling women to hold out for men who don’t care about looks is BAD ADVICE. Why? Because men like this are as common as Halley’s Comet….

Here’s an excerpt from Why You’re Still Single:

“I am not suggesting that men are pure objects of lust with all the depth of a bathtub. Nor am I suggesting that men don’t have the ability to love and accept any physical imperfections. They can and they do.

Just not as much as women. At least in my experience as a dating coach where I have the unique privilege of being given access to some of my clients’ online dating accounts. And after years of doing this, I’m still flabbergasted that no matter how unattractive a man is — no matter how little hair is on his head, or how much on his back — he STILL has the same twenty-something supermodels on his favorites list as if he was Colin Farrell.

Yes, Shallow Hal lives — and I believe he lives in a majority of American men. Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold, at least in L.A., where I live…

Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold.

If anybody should be judged harshly, it’s men for refusing to let women age gracefully. Most men do not break out of gender roles and societal expectations. So while you may know a handful of men who don’t care about looks, they are rarities. They are the gold standard, the type that every woman should be striving to date. But if you’re under the illusion that they grow on trees, it’s time to wake up and smell the Kiehl’s anti-aging lotion. The number of guys who are “above” the whole looks thing may fill a classroom, but not a stadium, and definitely not a big enough portion of the male population to suggest any type of trend.

In a weak moment, I bet that even the most non-judgmental guy around would say that he wants a mind, soul, and body connection — but only if she takes care of her body.

So, Tia-Maria, why do dating experts tell men how to get the hottest women possible?  …

Because that’s what men want. Plain and simple. Dating experts try to sell products by connecting with readers’ basest wishes. And for men, the holy grail is to be able to get the hot girl. What these men rarely consider is that the hot girl might also be emotionally bankrupt, unintelligent, flaky, humorless, and lack basic human empathy. These details don’t concern them. Men’s repeated refrain: “I can’t help what I’m attracted to.”

Who do we blame for this? Men, of course, but there’s more than enough responsibility to go around. After all, women buy into the Beauty Myth just as much as men do. Advertising and media saturation reinforce the image of perfect bodies and skin, and women spend thousands of dollars each year striving for an impossible standard. And to please whom? Men? Themselves? I’m not sure anyone can agree on this stuff.

And where does this realization leave you, Tia-Maria? I would say right back where you were before. Secure in who you are and who you’re not. Validated in your opinion that men are impossibly shallow. And rightfully concerned that you’re going to be overlooked.

Despite my shallow man diatribe, please bear in mind that there is a lid for every pot. Just look around. Most women don’t qualify as “hot” in the Maxim sense, and yet they still get married. The real struggle is in keeping a healthy perspective and a positive attitude until you find the right fit.

So don’t worry about what you can’t control (men); instead, take care of what you can control (yourself).

And trust that the right man will love you as you deserve to be loved.


For more commentary on shallow men, please read:

Where Are All The Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men?

How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn’t Interested In Me?

Are Women More Likely Than Men to Require Chemistry To Go On A Second Date?

Online Daters Are Shallow! And Water Is Wet!

Join our conversation (510 Comments).
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  1. 1

    A thought-provoking but disheartening post, Evan. I venture to guess that even those of us a little higher on the Beauty Scale (and whatever happened to beauty being in the eye of the beholder anyway?) want to be appreciated for qualities that lie deeper than skin tissue. I also think there is a difference between who a man (or woman) wants to date and who a man (or woman) wants to marry. For example I, a reasonably intelligent and thoughtful woman, for a time dated men purely on the merits of their looks (and their ability to make me laugh).

    There is a difference, I think, in what is conventionally beautiful and what each of us finds attractive. Of course we want to end up with a person who is the absolute best (in all areas) that we can attract. And it is true that women aren’t always as visually driven as men. To me, bald doesn’t automatically equate unattractiveness, nor does a couple of extra pounds. In fact, now that I’m looking for more than a cute boyfriend, I steer clear of anyone who looks like they could’ve walked out of a glossy magazine ad.

    I want drive, integrity, confidence, humor more than I want chiseled abs. I would hope that the person I end up with will love me for more than my long legs, ample who-know-what and blondish hair. Both of us will age and whatever good looks we started out with will change—with luck, exercise and good diet, we’ll age like fine wine but who knows?

    Perhaps this is why I am still single—happily so, though I am fascinated by male/female interaction and am putting forth a good effort to find a partner. Foolish or not, I am holding out for one of those rare men.

  2. 2

    By my experience, there are plenty of great men out there, if women would only stop being shallow and petty about tax brackets and hair gel and such. I think it’s the women looking to date outside their own leagues, who want a boyfriend they can show off, who complain the most about men’s shallowness.

    I think, before anyone is honestly ready to fall in love, they themselves have to shut off that judgmental reflex inside them that cares about what it “looks like” to be with someone. Once you stop giving a damn about superficial stuff, and start paying attention to genuine measures of compatibility (like trust, comfort, mutual respect) doesn’t it seem way more likely that the “lid” is out there for your “pot”?

    1. 2.1
      Roberto Johnson

      Nicely Said!

    2. 2.2
      Jolly Tilo

      Women are damn more Shallow than men. At least men are honest and some women are stupid.  Men admires beauty and good attitude and a true girl.. not some kind of girl who think girls have different world than men.

      Some girls also just wants to project a life of Corny Fantasy Romance that is not even true and how perfect fantasy life can be. That’s why some men ended up doing all these GAY stuffs, even if they are not.

      These women either ending up with handsome   but dumb stupid men or plain ugly and stupid. That’s why stupid people still exists in the gene pool to this day.

      1. 2.2.1

        jolly tilo,….why are women more shallow?….

        1. Will

          You mean how? They are. This whole article is bull. Women care just as much about looks if   not more. Plain jane mediocre girls always want a guy who exceeds their looks level because they feel entitled to the best. Lets be honest, no one is going to date someone they aren’t attracted to plain and simple. People read stuff like this as a blue pilled coping mechanism.

      2. 2.2.2

        Keep telling youself that handsome people are dumb so you will feel better about yourself. Many hot man i meet are really well educated and run their own bussineses and they treat people great. The “average” guy looking is prone to frustrations and has a negative bagage.

        1. Will

          People always shun other people who are better off then themselves to feel better about their insecurities.

      3. 2.2.3

        “WoMeN aRe MoRr ShALlOw bEcAuSe MeN aRe HoNeSt AbOuT bEiNg ShAlLoW!!1!”

        Hm… yes, I can see how you objectively and scientifically proved this statement.

  3. 3

    Generally speaking, I agree with Evan on this. HOWEVER, perhaps Evan has spent too much time in LA. I used to live in LA, but now live in the Midwest. I see lots of good looking guys with women that are not as attractive as them. And I live in a major city, not the sticks. So, to the woman who wrote the article, you cannot blame your appearance for your lack of results.

    Now, on to a more important issue. I am sick and tired of hearing how shallow men are. Women are even more shallow in many cases. At least men can blame their shallowness about beauty on biology -something they have no control over.

    But women are attracted to money and successful men. If you are famous and look like a fat pig or a dork, you’ll still get a hot girl (just look at the unattractive male celebrities with the hot blondes).

    I was a very good looking guy when I was in my 20s. However, I was not financially successful. I had so many women who were interested in me until they found out I did not have a good job or much money.

    Then, later, when I started to become more successful, women were suddenly interested. And I don’t mean women who wanted to marry me.

    Women have the same shallow prequalifications that men do. It’s just that while men screen women out for beauty, women screen men out for their level of financial success.

    To me, that’s even more shallow. After all, you cannot blame that on biology. Although, it could be an instictive desire for a woman to be attracted to men who they believe are good providers. But, most women are not going on a date hoping the guy will be their husband down the road.

    Shallow, shallow, shallow ladies! Now, enough of the frickin’ male bashing. Go men!

    1. 3.1

                   While you are correct in your assertion that both sexes are shallow and judgemental, I disagree with you that men’s predilection for beauty falls squarely in the realm of biological impulse. Biology does have an impact – after all, humans are biologically drawn to beauty in all forms. The operative term being “in ALL forms”. I say this to make the point that biology cannot be blamed for the current standard of beauty. The image of the young, fit, beautiful woman is the only acceptable version of beauty in our society. Why? It’s not just biology; it also has to do with media images of this supposed “ideal” being burned into our brains from a young age. People in Western society are brainwashed into thinking this impossible standard is the only one worth having. And if you’re going to argue that men make choices about their mates based on uncontrollable biological impulses, why could the same not be true of women? Is it not true that women subconsciously seek out the strongest mate who has proven his ability to provide for her and their offspring, thus ensuring continuation of the species? Why can that impulse not be biologically driven, but the urge for a man to seek out the youngest, hottest women he can find is? You don’t make much sense by that argument.

      1. 3.1.1

        I agree with you! Ron was saying that women are attracted to successful men even when they’re not looking for a husband, but men are not looking to create offsprings with every attractive women they encounter either! Women are driven by biological impulses same as men. What makes men’s shallowness more justifiable than women’s??  

        1. Amber

          “What makes men’s shallowness more justifiable than women’s?? ”

          The fact that a lot of men don’t like to take responsibility for their behavior… They have to have some kind of excuse.

        2. hunter

          Amber, the fact that men don’t take responsibility for their behavior?….they won’t, so long as they keep meeting generous women…

      2. 3.1.2
        Tami Nichole

        Not all woman set out for the best man.

        Not all men are the best things that’s happened on the earth so where does this leaves everyone else in fact there is a few of them not every men is rich handsome and have a good personality so it bothers me how every men says this.

        1. hunter

          Tami Nichole,

          you said, “not all women set out for the best man,”….surely, a woman that thinks this way, stays, very busy….!

        2. charel

          I agree. I couldnt care less for man  with  money, I just want a guy to treat me with respect, honesty, equality. I dont care for babies.

        3. hunter

          charel.   thinking this way is going to get you many male friends, maybe a husband, soon…


    2. 3.2

      Women need a man with money because BABIES take money.   BABIES also take time which puts the woman out of the picture for making money.   So the “shallow” part for both men and women is down to biology (making BABIES!).

      1. 3.2.1


        Not every woman wants to have a baby, nor does every woman have the ability to have a baby.   Way to generalize there smart boy.

        Also, tax credits basically pay a woman to pop out a kid.   Its not like baby daddy or (Adam) is needed to supply money.

        Sounds like you got screwed over in child support by a woman that you willingly put your dick into and knocked up.   Now you wanna whine without telling the whole story.   How pathetic.

        1. Russell

          Not every man wants to have a baby, nor does every man have the ability to have a baby.   Way to generalize there smart girl.

          Also, tax credits basically pay a woman to pop out a kid.   Its not like baby daddy or (Adam) is needed to supply money.   So why do so many women squeeze a man for every red cent they can get away with?

          Sounds like you got screwed over in child support by a man that you willingly allowed to put his dick into you and you got knocked up.   Now you wanna whine without telling the whole story.   How pathetic.   At least you have reproductive rights AFTER conception.   A man has none at all.   He is at the mercy of the woman and the courts.


          Just sayin’





        2. Jolly Tilo

          “Not every women   wantd to have a baby”??? but eventually they will want to. No matter what you say.

    3. 3.3
      It's you

      Biology drives men to pursue attractive women so that’s fair. But it’s not biology but selfishness that drives women to pursue well off men, so that’s unfair and makes women more shallow than men. Is that your argument?

      Yet  natural beauty is something a woman is born with and can’t control. (Yes  you can make yourself look your best but only millions in plastic surgery will turn a so-called 4 into a 10). Building a successful and well paying career is something every man is capable of if he puts his mind to it. So what women are really looking for is maturity, ambition and dedication, which is a choice that men make and is reflective of their character. Looks have nothing to do with character. So who is more shallow?

      See how easy it is to jsutify your beliefs and point the finger at who is more shallow?

      Seriously this debate is so tired. Unattractive and broke people get coupled and married every single day. Go to your local mall this weekend and people watch for a while. Unless you live in Beverly Hills 90% of the people you see strolling hand in hand  with their partners and pushing baby carriages will be neither beautiful nor wealthy. Some  will be downright ugly and others will be pulling out their credit cards to pay for $9 in merchandise and silently praying they won’t get rejected for being over their credit limit.

    4. 3.4


      I completely agree with your view. It’s sound, but I think the biggest mistake here is to make sweeping generalizations and turn this into a women vs men debate just as Evan did. I can understand you getting fired up and responding. But like you, It seems that I’m very attractive but also career drive. I find that career   men   and career women attract gold diggers be it make or female. I also find that I’ve never been able to form, as yet, any connection with successful men because they seem to want the a (naive) woman with who has not yet realized the they want more out of life besides marriage and kids. A woman who has not come in to there autonamy.   So I feel stuck.   For me money was never an issue because I make my own and I admire people who are independent like that.   Couples should meet their equal but they’re too much in a hurry so they rarely do.

    5. 3.5

      You’re saying men have a biological reason for being shallow but women do not? Did you actually read your own post?: “But women are attracted to money and successful men. If you are famous and look like a fat pig or a dork, you’ll still get a hot girl”

      Women can also claim biology as a driving force in their decision-making process. They want a man who can care for their young.

  4. 4

    chiara – love the line about the tax brackets!! You took the words right out of my mouth. Women I first meet ALWAYS ask a sneaky question upfront to get an idea of how much money I make and what I do for a living. Shallow, shallow, shallow!!!

    a & v – I enjoyed reading your post, but you’ve got a lot to learn, girl! While I despise the pickup artist stuff on the market, I LOVE what one of them said (because it’s so true and hits you right between the eyes): We do NOT make a conscious decision about what or who we find attractive. It is like broccoli (my words here) — do you decide whether or not you like broccoli? Do you decide whether or not you like (such as a & v) a long-legged blonde with a nice rack and a pretty face? Versus a more down-to-earth brunette who looks like the girl next door? It is not a conscious decision of who we find attractive.

    BUT, picking a guy because he has a fat bank account, a high paying job, or because he is on TV IS a conscious decision. Shallow, shallow, shallow, ladies.

    As for me, I see TONS of women I find attractive. And yes, while I feel my standards are fairly high, I see them all over the place. And no, I’m not talking Playboy model types (although I wouldn’t kick any of those out for munching on Triscuits in bed). I’m talking about girl next door types.

    Oh boy, can’t wait to see the male bashing posts to follow.

    1. 4.1

      Hey Ron,

      Do you ever ask someone what job they have or what hobbies they do just because you want to see what they’re into? If I ask a guy, what field he works in, it’s not with some hidden agenda to find out his pay check, it’s to shed some light on his personality, just to hypothesise some traits he most likely has.

      Even if you can’t help your attraction to that hot girl’s looks at the end of the day it’s her looks that you are attracted to and nothing else and for a genuinly healthy long term relationship, that doesn’t work. Just as a woman dating a man on the sole basis of money can’t produce a genuinly healthy relationship. However if she’s hot and you’re both compatible great! If he’s rich but they’re both compatible, great!

      On the subject of shallow:

      You seem to define being ‘shallow’ as making a conscious decision or being capable choosing how you feel about someone. You see I define being shallow as holding people to an impossible standard. Let’s take your standard, a hot woman let’s say an 8/10, 80% of women won’t be able to attain that throughout their lifetime (cosmetic surgery is  balanced out by accidents/aging) because physically it is impossible. Money is much more fluid. Any man be he fat ugly gorgeous suave could win the lottery right now and become a millionaire. The chances are very slim in that example but a promotion at work, inheriting money, making reasonable profit on a sale, these things are very common. Now Joe Jones may not hold up to Jenny James standard today but tomorrow he may secure a neat position at work and then tomorrow Joe IS datable to Jenny. He has been given a chance. For men who are or start off reasonably poor, I understand that this is much harder and maybe impossible to attain and therefore very unfair on them. Therefore I maintain that gold digging women (or men) are shallow but holding women (or men) to an impossible physical standard is even more shallow.

      For myself, money is absolutely rock bottom on my standards for an ideal man, I’m much more interested in chemistry and values, being on the same wavelength. As for physical attraction, yes that’s required but it doesn’t have to be conventional (what the media tells you to want). I’m not mainly attracted to the muscly, tan, blue-eyed man they put on ads. I can’t help being physically attracted to a bald guy, that’s clearly biological and not media-influenced.

      You seem to be attracted to ‘media standards’ (that girl next door who also happens to be blonde with great body, works out, great facial structure etc.). That seems to be media-influenced. Maybe if you’d been born in a non-westernised country, your opinions would be vastly different.

      Evan, I think the idea of men feeling looks are important is spot on HOWEVER opinions vary greatly. What one man considers a 9/10 another considers a 5/10 what one considers a 3/10 another may consider a 6/10. Furthermore there’s a general consensus that media standards are generally classed as ‘the best’. But outside of the magazines you may be seeing a 10/10 on the street who wouldn’t make it in e media because she’s not fitting into the specific media requirement (generally tall, blonde, tan, Caucasian). All the guys around you may not think she’s a 10/10 but why would that matter because you do. I myself can spot a generally beautiful woman (generally media standard) and an unconventionally beautiful (in my opinion) woman and there’s alot of times where I’d prefer physically the unconventionally beautiful woman, so I’m also speaking from my own experience with women.

      Damn those paragraphs are long.

      1. 4.1.1


        you say, “just as a woman dating a man on the sole basis of money,   can’t produce a genuinely healthy relationship”……..oh really?…tell me more….

  5. 5

    hi ron,

    where do you live? i’m in the chicago area.


  6. 6

    No bashing from me Ron. I accept men as they are. I don’t always like the way things are and end up spending time alone when I’d rather be with someone, but reality is reality. I can’t change them. And there is only so much I can change about the physical me.

    I can, however, continue to become the real person that I am which makes me happier which (I think) makes me more attractive overall. It certainly makes me more confident and discerning and less likely to date just anyone. I much prefer someone with character, intelligence, integrity, humor….and, for me, height. Okay….I’m a little shallow…so shoot me. I’m tired of dancing with a guys face in my chest.

  7. 7

    Men who are 5’s may only want to date women who are 10’s, but how often do they end up with them? Talking average people here, not billionaires and celebrities. Go to any Wal-Mart and you will observe most of the couples are of the same level of attractiveness– high, low, in between. So these people are finding each other somehow.

    Maybe when they are unsuccessful mating with someone possessing the looks they think they “require” men (and women) find themselves settling for all the neat other stuff, like intellect, sense of humor, innate kindness and compatibility. I discovered many years ago that the more I come to care about someone, the more physically attractive they become to me–even if I thought they were just ehh…upon first meeting. This is something that just can’t be determined from a pic on a dating site.

  8. 8

    “Women I first meet ALWAYS ask a sneaky question upfront to get an idea of how much money I make and what I do for a living.”

    I generally ask what a man does for a living, because what he does says a lot about him (his personality – after all, most of our lives are defined by what we do for a living, right?) I’m an attorney, by the way, so I am not really looking for a man to take care of me, but I am interested to know that he enjoys his work as much as I enjoy mine. Why is a simple “getting to know you” type question such a minefield for some men?

    “BUT, picking a guy because he has a fat bank account, a high paying job, or because he is on TV IS a conscious decision. Shallow, shallow, shallow, ladies. ”

    I’m not entirely sure where you live, Ron, but I don’t know any woman my age (late-20s) who does this. A lot of them are equally as successful and educated as their husbands, and make as much if not more money. Many have helped thier men through grad school and prolonged periods of unemployment, as well. That’s what a complete partnership is all about. Perhaps, instead of painiting all women with the same “shallow, shallow, shallow” brush, you should look at what kinds of women you’re attracted to and whether they truly represent the balance of the female population.

    1. 8.1

      “Why is such a simple ‘getting to know you’ type question such a minefield for some men”?

      But it isn’t a simple getting to know you question, is it?

      You implicitly acknowledge that yourself; you know you’re causing a potentially off-putting, socially awkward situation, yet you you do it anyway. If you were really trying to ‘get to know’ someone, it’s seems likely you could bring yourself to maybe ask another question.

      Try to see things from others perspective, and not just your own. A good mental exercise is to try think of an equivalent for yourself. So in this case, perhaps imagine yourself on tinder, you’re having a lot of interactions in which the men get sexual very quickly. He wants to know if he’s getting laid on the first date, that sort of thing. Now, he’s at home baffled as to why you don’t like this. I mean, our sexuality is such a big part of who we are, right?

      As a woman, you rightfully demand that men see things from your perspective, right? Even if he doesn’t share that perspective, he must defer to your expeeience. Perhaps you could reciprocate, just a little.

  9. 9

    I don’t care much for brocolli plain. But with cheese sauce? Yummy. Plain can have zing if you don’t dismiss it out of hand. Same with people.

    1. 9.1
      It's you

      Wish this site had an upvote button cause I’d give this comment 10.

    2. 9.2

      I don’t agree with Ron. In my experience, guys have been really mean to me, and selfish. If you want to know, feel free to ask, I’ve always been kind, and caring, and giving,

  10. 10

    Ron, I adore men, I wouldn’t bash ’em with a gun to my head. Men are fabulous creatures. My own husband (11 years younger and a “face man” according to his long-ago fraternity brothers) told me on our second date, after I made a light but self-deprecating comment about my overweight self, “Men are all pigs, we all want to nail a supermodel. But when it comes down to who do we want to get old with, we get realistic in a hurry.” That remark turned out to be prescient in my case, at least, as six months later he proposed. Our second anniversary is New Year’s Day and we just get happier and more bonded as time goes on, even as I get commensurately further away from my perky youthful self.

    Tia-Maria, here is my advice: behave “as if” you are the hottest thing on the planet. I’m not talking about being snotty, I’m talking about developing the kind of friendly poise and self-assurance you imagine a supermodel would have, greeting her fans. Don’t treat hot guys as if they are hot and should be highly sought after. Treat them with an attitude of, “Okay, big guy, show me what it is you have to offer me” — and no, I’m not talking financially, I’m talking about how will he treat me, how good of a companion will he be, how emotionally supportive will he be, etc. Remember: no matter what you look like, YOU ARE THE PRIZE. YOU ARE THE PRIZE. YOU ARE THE PRIZE. Repeat as necessary.

    I read somewhere, “Men gather and women choose.” So true. Now, the men who gather may not be your first choice in the whatever department (looks, finances, smarts), but you weed out the unsuitable types and choose among the gems who are left. It’s so true that when a man is ready to settle down, and so much of mating IS about timing, he won’t necessarily hold out for the greatest physical prize but will marry the woman he feels he could take home to meet Mom. Whatever you have to do — a therapist, daily affirmations, self-help books — but just stay positive and DECIDE that you are “all that” and walk the walk, girl. Don’t give the “it” guys any more special treatment than you give any other guys. They will be intrigued that you aren’t all over them like the other salivating female hordes. “Why isn’t this woman knocking herself out to be with me? I must find out. Could it be she’s a cut above the rest?” Try this type of attitude adjustment… and report back in a month.

    1. 10.1

      Sorry but I font this post laughable. This woman seems chuffed to bits that her husband chose her because he was simply getting old and wanted someone to be there for him. If a guy said that to   me I would be insulted and not accept a marriage proposal. So basically if she had met her husband ten years earlier he would not have looked at her twice. If that is what you have to put up with to get a man in this day and age then I think I would rather be single.  

  11. 11

    Hm. I make plenty of my own money–I don’t need a man for that. In fact, I shy away from guys who have all the standard “trappings” of success–wealth, cars, etc., because frankly I find them boring. I want someone who’s engaged intellectually and culturally, and when you’re too busy chasing the almighty dollar you don’t have much time to read, contemplate art, and reflect. One of the wealthier men I’d dated couldn’t handle the fact that I liked making my own decisions (and was afraid to park his car in my edgy, urban neighborhood), and the other one didn’t have anything interesting to bring to our conversational table. He told me, in fact, that he hadn’t read a book since he was 14, and I’m a librarian.

    I’m not average, but I’m kind of quirky and unusual and don’t appeal to men who are threatened by a woman who speaks her mind and doesn’t pull punches. But there are a lot of men I do appeal to, and I never had problems finding dates. So my advice to Tia-Maria is this: don’t chase men who don’t want you, instead concentrate on finding the men out there who do. It may be a smaller pool, and it may take you more time and effort to find them, but there out there. You gotta keep looking! What other choice do you have?

  12. 12

    Wow. This was a good discussion, both the question and the answers. Seems like everyone is at least partially right. For example, I was rather shocked after I left the college dating scene to find out just how shallow women could be when it came to how much money men earned. I actually heard female friends talking about about what kind of car a guy drives or his salary the same way guys talked about a hot women’s boobs. And as a guy who was pretty good looking, but not very financially secure, I just couldn’t believe how much my “value” went down in the eyes of women after I graduated college (I found that generally women didn’t really start focusing on the money thing until they got out of college.)

    I remember how disappointing it was to find out that women really could be as shallow as men. “But men are supposed to be shallow,” I would say. “Women are supposed to be deeper!”

    On the other hand, men, including me when I was younger, can be so hung up on a woman’s looks that it really is disgusting, and extremely stupid. Luckily, I found out thru trial and error, that the value I was placing on a woman’s looks was ludicrous. Not only did it make it harder for me to find someone, it also turned out that looks were just one component of many that I needed to consider when looking for a girlfriend.

    The value I placed on looks had been way overstated. I dated a number of good looking women, and some average looking women, and to my astonishment, personality turned out to be far more important. I didn’t seek to come to that conclusion, I just came to that conclusion based on the reality of my experiences

    So, men, give yourself a break and give the women a break. Don’t be so hung up on looks and you might actually get a few dates and find that the pool of female possibilities is enormously enriched and expanded.

  13. 13

    I actually don’t think women are much more responsible for their attractions than we are. Women are conditioned by society AND evolution to find the man who will “win the game”. Not necessarily rich and greedy but, as was said, a good provider. Well, I make decent money but guess what having kids and paying child support does to you? Right. Lu-hoo-su-her. For the record, I’m 38 and in great shape. No chiseled abs but great shape. All I ask is something similar. I don’t want a playboy model. I actually like “girl next door” better but someone who’s kept their body in shape is important.

  14. 14

    Evan states his opinion that dating books for men focus on getting the hottest woman, because that is what men want and that is what sells books. I happen to agree. Could it be that Evan, in this article, departed from his usual “accept the world as it is” attitude to use value judgments like “shallow” when referring to men, because he markets his material to women? Hey, we all have to make a living…..no problems there.

    In my humble opinion, looks count. People who say otherwise are trying to sell something, if not to others than to themselves. Does that mean most people are shallow?

    I would say a person is shallow when looks are the only thing that counts or when looks count more than other important things.

    I’ve been turned down based on my looks and I am a man. I know that is sucks.

    In addition to all of the men in the world who reduce women to pieces of meat there are many women who reduce men walking wallets.

  15. 15
    Evan Marc Katz

    “Could it be that Evan, in this article, departed from his usual “accept the world as it is” attitude to use value judgments like “shallow” when referring to men, because he markets his material to women?”

    Uh, no.

    I don’t market my material on this blog to anyone, Steve. I simply answer the questions that people write to me. Not surprisingly, 95% of them come from women.


    Beats the shit out of me. Far as I can tell, men need more help; women ask for more help. That’s why “Why You’re Still Single” was for women. Women actually care about self-improvement. Men, in general, don’t frequent the self-help section of bookstores. Their loss.

    So if you’re a man who’s reading this, and you want my blog to tackle your questions, maybe you should start asking them.

    Otherwise, yeah, this is gonna be a one-stop shopping home for women who want to get smart about men and dating.

  16. 16

    Men not asking questions here makes perfect sense. Men are always shy about asking for directions… or help.

    In dating, “Men need more help” because women are (by necessity) generally pickier. Men’s standards are much lower, as you stated above.

    1. 16.1

      As a guy, I’d say men’s standards are different than womens, and in general simpler: most guys I’ve known wanted two things: be attractive to them, and don’t be a bitch (or be fun to be around).


      Mostly I think guys tend to be less conscious of their attractions, and just act on them – they see an attractive girl*, they flirt. A woman treats them well* they continue dating. A woman gets to be a pain in the ass*, they dump them.


      *Attractive, in HIS eyes

      *Treats them well, according to his perspective

      *Pain in the ass, in HIS eyes

  17. 17

    My way of dealing with it is to accept that most guys want 10, but also find that guys are often hard-wired to be attracted to a certain type. So I want the guys who think I’m a 10.

    For instance, I’m pretty but my weight fluctuates between size 4 and 10. At size 4, I stop traffic, but even when I’m a little heaver, some guys dig that. European boyfriends in particular, hated when I got too thin. It was such a relief to know that I was still a 10 to them, even when I was worried about not being sexy–they really thought I was. So I’m more about finding that natural attraction that comes with being someone’s type.

    I have one very obese friend, and she dates plenty! But she only posts ads on sites that are FOR guys looking for women who are her body type. She’s a 10 to them. Everyone’s happy.

  18. 18

    I think the women here might be exaggerating male lookism and men are exaggerating women’s lust for money. Some men are still pigs and some women are still golddiffers, but overall male and female attitudes towards mate selection are converging:

    Just as women have long sought to marry a good breadwinner, men, too, now find earning potential sexy. “There are fewer Cinderella marriages these days,” says Stephanie Coontz, author of “Marriage, a History.” “Men are less interested in rescuing a woman from poverty. They want to find someone who will pull her weight.


    1. 18.1

      They now demand  our money BESIDES demanding ridiculous beauty standards. Where’s the exaggeration? It’s only gotten worse! Women, DON’T SHARE YOUR MONEY WITH ANY ONE AFTER THEY PROVED THEY DESERVE IT

      1. 18.1.1

        ada, you know how it goes, the good looking men have to do some things right, the not so good looking men have to do “everything” right….!

  19. 19

    Christine – I live further south than ChiTown.

    Marissa – I could argue you down and I have no legal degree. But, you helped me to decide I’ll never marry an attorney.

    Markus and Steve – great posts. Markus – you hit the nail on the head. I told a psychologist friend of mine that my theory is that women are instinctively looking for a good provider and in part despise men who do not make much money because of that reason. Part of that could be argued as biology, but I’m not sure I accept the notion that it’s all biology.

    Perhaps the best advice is to take Martin Luther King’s recommendation of judging people by their individual character, and not by their race, sex, etc.

    I will be the first to say that I am extremely visual. I would only consider dating a woman that I (emphasis “I”) find attractive. But, my “10” might be another man’s “7” or “8.”

    And I will add that if a woman is rude, overly materialistic, or as thick as a brick, I will write her off as quickly as I would write off a woman I find physically repulsive.

    The #1 turnoff for me is rudeness. I don’t care if that person is hotter than hell. If she’s rude, I want nothing to do with her.

    Now, on with the show!

    1. 19.1
      Marc Lüizianno

      The dude who tells a woman “I could argue you down and I have no legal degree. But, you helped me to decide I’ll never marry an attorney” doesn’t want a rude woman! Ha, the irony.

      Everyone who sees is “visual”. No one who sees is more “visual” than the other. The importance you put into it is a choice.
      The problem isn’t only dating people you find attractive – or at least nor repusive. The problem is having those ridiculous high standards, even more when you aren’t that great at all, haha.

      1. 19.1.1

        Thank you Marc for those WISE WISE WISE words. 🙂 I would hug and kiss you right now if I could.

      2. 19.1.2

        “The dude who tells a woman “I could argue you down and I have no legal degree. But, you helped me to decide I’ll never marry an attorney” doesn’t want a rude woman! Ha, the irony.”


        What’s so ironic? That he could argue doesn’t mean he would.

  20. 20

    Man, it’s cool when EMK posts. He has a frame and everything. ; )

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