Where Are All the Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men?
I’m a 42 year old single mom who is very attractive (I look about 7 years younger), fun, has a great smile and laugh (and does both a LOT), emotionally stable, and not looking to race to the altar. And I definitely fit the definition of a “cool chick” – and my guy friends will confirm:-).”
Unfortunately, the pool of men that I’m dating from (early to mid 40s, usually divorced) are pretty messed up. A number of them want younger women (never mind that I look much younger) – didn’t anyone tell these guys that women hit their sexual prime over 40:-)?
I’m besieged by the 50+ set even though our lives are completely different (like my kids are young and theirs are grown and they don’t want anymore). A number of gentlemen I’ve met shouldn’t have been dating at all because they are still grieving. And the most surprising phenomenon that I’ve witnessed in this pool of men is that being a pretty, happy, vivacious “cool chick” is a big negative strike against me. I’m amazed at how many of them fall for the psycho Bs and drama queens.
My last (short-term – I can’t find one healthy enough to become long term!) boyfriend told me I was the first mentally healthy woman he dated in 3 years. But although I had everything he wanted in a woman, he didn’t feel any “chemistry” for me – so he went back to a younger woman who had serious enough issues that she lost custody of her kids. And he is not the only guy I’ve encountered like this. Another date, who didn’t feel chemistry with me but we became friends, I’ve watched him fall for all the women who don’t want to give him the time of day. He gets his butt kicked time and again and then cries on my shoulder.
I’ve tried all the big dating websites and I go out a lot (that is another weird phenomenon – men my age sit home on the weekends and don’t go out and do anything so I never meet anyone by just going out and having fun). So Evan where can I find the emotionally available mentally healthy men who will appreciate a woman like me? Thanks!!!!!
Joan
A very honest letter, Joan, which is particularly timely, given yesterday’s thematically similar posting. I anticipate that you speak for a lot of readers out there – quality woman who are frustrated at their ability to meet quality men. I can tell, from your tone, that you’re speaking your truth, based on your experience, and I would never attempt to negate it. However, I would like to expand on your truth. Maybe put it into a different perspective.
If we take everything you wrote at simply face value, you’re pretty close to the perfect woman. Young for your age, emotionally stable, cool, etc. This is good news. Now, by your estimation, there are no men out there who are either a) interested or b) qualified for a long-term relationship. Let’s analyze both of those things. And let’s delve into the assertion that “being a pretty, happy, vivacious ‘cool chick’ is a big negative strike against you. Because that’s simply untrue.
What is true is that your options are unfairly limited. This is a dilemma that faces any woman on the far side of 35. Your value goes up – your self-awareness, your experience, your wisdom, your sex drive, your income – and yet, to men, your value goes down. And the main reasons it goes down are because he wants to have kids or because he’s still a slave to the Maxim aesthetic. One reason that women rarely want to consider (and I’m not necessarily applying this to you, Joan), is that with their experience comes a darker lining. Moxie hit it on the head in yesterday’s post that successful, intelligent woman can often be anxious, self-righteous, negative, and entitled. These are not the adjectives women use to describe themselves; these are the adjectives that men often use to describe you based on their own dating experiences.
A relevant aside: Last year, it dawned on me that for every “crazy girl” dating story I had, there was a woman on the other end who was telling her own version of the story, except that in her version, she’s the heroine and I’m the bad guy. We all have myopia when it comes to dating. It’s much easier to find fault in others than it is to find it in ourselves. Studies have shown that people in couples overestimate what they bring to relationships – their generosity, their emotional availability – because they are exclusively inside their own heads. We remember our good deeds more than others’ good deeds. We don’t keep track of how many times our partner kept his/her mouth shut for the sake of harmony. But our partner does. Each of us thinks we’re the martyr.
So am I saying that you, Joan, are anxious and negative? Not at all. What I am saying is that you’re only seeing things from your own perspective. Which is limited. If you’ve gone out with a handful of guys who ended up with drama queens, that brings up a very obvious question: why would any man prefer a drama queen over you? If you think it’s because men like drama, I’ll have to respectfully disagree. I wrote about this in Why You’re Still Single. Once a man reaches a certain age, he prefers easy relationships. When we’re younger, we may tolerate craziness, just because we’re lonely or desperate for sex. But as we mature and value ourselves, we tend to court what makes sense for us in the long term. I’m not suggesting that the drama queens make sense to your ex’s, per se. I am challenging you to consider why he’d choose them over you at all. We’re largely rational beings. There has to be some reason, right?
I was on a plane two days ago and found myself seated next to an attractive and wealthy 59-year-old man. We got to talking and I learned that, not surprisingly, he had a predilection for younger women. In addition to the obvious physical attraction reasons, this man emphasized that it was so much EASIER to go out with a younger woman who has not yet been scarred by life. Someone who is up for anything. Someone who doesn’t judge. Someone who doesn’t tell you how to act. Keep in mind if you’re reading this that a younger woman doesn’t have to be a sycophant or a brainless chimp (although some insecure men are just fine with that). But for the men you’re interested in, the younger woman just has to be open and fun and easy to get along with. This is one of the things that women often ignore when they question the tastes of men. Every time I hear a woman saying that she “intimidates” men, this is what comes to mind. First of all, you don’t want to be with a man who is intimidated by you. Second of all, the greater likelihood is that not that he’s intimidated, but that he doesn’t want to be challenged by you on every little matter. This doesn’t mean he wants you to “dumb it down.” It means he wants you to “take it easy.”
That said, men ARE impossibly shallow. I struggle with it in my coaching every day. Clients who tell me, as they show me their lists of hot, underaged favorites, “I can’t help what I’m attracted to”. Yeah. There’s not much we can do about that. It’s why the 50+ set is interested in you. Just know that there ARE men out there who are looking for peers. My 60-year-old Mom married a 60-year-old guy. I’ve had single parent clients find the love of their lives on Match.com, JDate and Nerve. It happens all the time.
But one thing I’ve learned from years of dating and dating coaching, is that there’s nothing to learn when placing the blame squarely on everybody else. I hear your pain in your email, Joan. It’s frustrating out there. I completely agree. But I assume your question was not simply looking for validation: “You’re perfect. Men suck. Don’t change.” A question seeks an answer. And if you’re not arriving at the answers yourself, it’s useful to get another perspective. In this case, a male perspective.
Listen, if you’re dating online with a great profile, great photos, healthy flirting technique and a long-term subsecription, great. If you’re going out and doing things you love and putting yourself in the position to meet like-minded men, great. If you’re still finding that there isn’t one quality man in the world who wants a quality woman like you, I have to question something. There are quality men out there – even if they’re few and far between. Most of them want to date someone younger – because they can. But if you are all the things you say you are, I have no doubt that some quality single dad is going to grab you and never let you go.
Just don’t make the mistake in assuming that there are no emotionally available men, that men prefer drama, or that men don’t want “cool” women. Because that type of false thinking doesn’t lead to anything positive.
Everyone talks about how middle aged men want to date younger women, but take a look at some twentysomething profiles and you’ll notice how many are willing to date men up to twenty years older then them, but rule out candidates born 12 months after them.
That’s their perogative, but i can’t help but wonder how many women dated older men in their twenties, and then complained that their peers considered them too old 10 years later.
They don’t control a male’s level of undateability. Simply Darwin theory. If mental and emotional age were stressed as much as the shallow then this problem would hardly exist. Doubtful.
JimmyE,
I am 38, and I adore younger men. I have had a crush on a younger guy (he looks about 17 or 18, but I don’t dare ask him!) who works as a waiter at a restaurant I frequent with my parents. I actually have a mental block about dating older men, even a couple of years older seems so very very old to me! lol I think it is just each person has their own tastes you know. Unfortunately, society praises the older man-younger woman pairings, and disparages older women-younger men pairings. The pressure can be a bit daunting. Many people who are cool about seeing gay couples out together are openly horrified if they see a woman out with a younger man. Why is that??? It is the final frontier, in my opinion, and I guess I want to be a trailblazer! lol. So, not all women exclude younger men. I only wish more of them would date me! 🙂
Vicki
Vicki
Well, if society praises the older man-younger woman pairings, and disparages older women-younger men pairings as you claim (which I don’t necessarily believe is universally true), it’s probably because of the way people view gender roles.
A man who is 50 can date a 25-year-old woman if he is rich and fertile, so a 25-year-old woman isn’t missing out on anything. She can still become a mother and she can reap the advantages of his experience and wealth. Society still expect men to be the providers. And society seem to accept the notion of women being gold-diggers more readily than the notion of men being gold-diggers.
But a 25-year-old man dating a 50-year-old woman is different. A 25-year-old man most likely will not have any money. If he did, why would he date a 50-year-old woman when he can date a woman his own age? He is probably dating the older woman because she has money. She probably won’t be able to give him a child. And people are still not that comfortable with men living off of women. Men are still expected to earn their money on their own.
As far as gay couples are concerned, not everyone is happy to see them together out in the open but for those who are, it’s because many view them as finally enjoying the rights that straight couples have enjoyed after years of discrimination. Gender roles are not assigned to gay couples as they still tend to be to straight couples.
Sorry to say, but even in many couples where the wife is older, the gender roles can be kept. It is not age that decides gender roles. Also, not all men wish to date younger women. That is generalization. And some people, men and women, would prefer/are attracted to younger people because of the obvious: younger appearance, firmer skin and body, more energy and so much more easy to impress. If you put in front of me two eligible bachelors who were equally desirable and equally in love with me, one younger and the other older, I would obviously choose the younger, because I can.
People frown also upon older man/younger women combination. I know this because I see how my friends who are in this situations are suffering because of the gossip. People frown upon anything that is not conventional because it threatens their tunneled vision which is their entire belief system. For then is like telling a Christian or a Jew that God does not exist. Also women tend to be envious of each other, unfortunately. I hate this aspect of womanhood, but is so true. A woman who chose a lesser man thinks the one with the older/younger husband has it better than her. So she judges, gossips and gets a clique of equally bitchy women to exclude the one who decided to be different.
Men are not much different actually. A man choosing a younger woman may go through a lot of unpleasantness with his family or with her family because they will try ti advise against such a union because of the “gold digger” myth. One who chooses an older wife, risks of being excluded from his male clique, and may have difficulties with his mother accepting an experienced woman as a daughter-in-law. Most moms of boys dream of the young and easy to manipulate daughter-in-law. Studies do show though that both men and women are happier if they marry people their own age. Probably because society is cruel, maybe because they can relate to one another more easily that way.
It is ignorant to say that men marry older women to “live off them.” I happen to know a case of a older wife who is a happy housewife, and another who works a job that does not make her rich, and her younger husband earns more than she does. She has a grown up son, and her husband now doesn’t really want children of his own anyway. My colleague married for the first time at 40 and had her first child at 42. Younger women who are struggling to conceive or are struggling to find available men to marry are envious of the older woman who “takes their place” so to speak.
Giving children is not the only asset a woman has. To believe such a thing and limit your feminine values to just that is very foolish and ignorant. Remember that there are many young women, some I know personally, who cannot be pregnant. Some because of disease and others because of no reason at all. There are men who cannot conceive too.
Marriage is about love. Love, to exist between a man and a woman, does not need children. The offspring is just the result of that love. So start with a man who loves you very much and is willing to give you everything he has, including himself. Then, you are sure he would love you no matter what: children, or no children, in sickness and in health. That is the most important. I’d rather never marry than choose poorly and regret it later, because a married life where you feel alone and deserted, is far worse than a life as a single person and a few bad dates.
There are still those in society that believe when a younger person marries a considerably older person, it’s because of money. There are still those that believe that the woman’s main asset is to bear a child. I don’t necessarily believe these things are true in all cases and society is changing but many still feel that way.
But then again, if a person wants someone who is younger because of their beauty and stamina another person wants an older person because of their money and accomplishments, so what? Marriage is a partnership and people should be free to define their partnerships the way they want.
Marriage should be about love but it many cases it’s not. Many marry for convenience or because they want a trophy spouse, trophy kids and a trophy house. Some start out in love but fall out of love.
Instead of just asking yourself what marriage and children can do for you, you should also ask yourself what you can do for another person and for your children. In all relationships there are responsibilities and obligations and if you can’t handle them then you shouldn’t marry and/or have children. Too many marry and have children because it is the default mode of society but they should think outside of the box. I think more people would be happier this way in general.
I wish my manfriend thought like you do. I’m 44 and he’s 34. We’ve been together 4 years. He never wanted children but now he suddenly thinks he might ‘some day’ and our relationship is totally on the rocks because of it. I feel that if he loved me, my ovary function wouldn’t matter. But, his potential regrets someday of not having had children (he won’t be ready until I’m too old, he says) possibly trumps his value of me as his partner.
Well said! I’wouldn’t say better!:)
Personally, my experience goes as this.. I am a 43 years young; always admired and told I look 10 years or more younger, fun, and vivacious. Men of all ages are attracted to me and I am constantly hit on by men much younger starting at age 18. As a divorcee once married to a man 10 years older, I have little to no interest in men closer to my age unless they too look younger and youthfully energetic. I also find that older single men 35 and older, have been by a former relationship, many have lost everything they have through divorce or otherwise, and just simply a miserable bunch. It is no wonder that many of them look for a woman younger, as she will be less experienced, and will likely not challenge them. Most older men love a good looking vivacious woman 40 and older, its just many factors that may keep them afraid to pursue. Now, the younger men I decide to date, and the youngest so far has been 30, has a real mans heart and enjoys taking care of his woman. I wouldn’t have it any other way if we are talking a relationship. Without shame, I can say that I am not the woman who craves a relationship, and a casual partner here and there is most times perfect for what I m looking for. Whenever I meet a man, I make it clear that I am no sugar momma, I’m spoiled, and like to be taken care of. I never have a problem getting what I want. So, it is all about the woman. If you are confident in self, blessed enough, learned your value in life, not needy at all, non judgmental, and apt to let things flow, men will love that in you. In my experience, there are no shortage of men young and old that are looking for real love with a woman like me. I’m just picky and will only commit when I am ready to the right guy. I guess to sum it all up, my advice to every woman is to be a lady, but think like a man. It’s easier when you are born with that mindset as I was, but it can be learned. I love teaching unlearned women!
A young man will not have a long term relationship with an older woman. Pump and dump, have a little fun sure……but looks and fertility are what most men want and older women are lacking in these areas.
untrue. Married a younger man, and LTR with another younger man.
You are correct! “Older” women typically get so hormonal and with taking care of themselves very vigorously can have a longer shelf life. Most are very damaged goods and claim “to look much younger”, don’t! Granted as an older male you can have a lot of bonding experiences from times gone past, many of the younger ones are very much into the times we grew through. As a good friend of mine said “young women are eager to please” and can be much more sexual. He is/has dated more than we can count. So there is your proof is in the pudding. Just as a much younger woman most likely will not be attracted to a flabby out of shape male with man boobs. As a male in his mid fifties I see how they still check me out and not only me some of my friends too. So as long as you are “breed able” your in, if you are not, you are not. Simple as that! Older women are kind of like smoking cigarettes, they are cool when your young but will take a serious toll on your health! This applies to today. Years ago women had value to a man, not today. Look around, they are self absorbed, narcissistic beings. Men used to have to prove themselves to you. Now you all run around like chickens with your heads cut off and think a man is going to jump through your hoops, ain’t happening, not a real guy! Wait till this generation of tattoos, piercings, bare legs, excessive self lovelettes get old. Fat sagging blobs of holey inks! Good luck! So talk to the younger women, not your old sagging biddies that just want to bitch, and ask them why they are not interested in the “young, video playing, no money, limp dick, piss the bed, I don’t want to work, I don’t have my own place to live, I want to get drunk every night, with no responsibility shemales that mommy kissed their ass their whole life! Yeah it’s a rant, but true! Go ahead and ask them! You obviously see this but want to live in denial. Just as you older women cleaned out the guys pension/equity in their lives, now you can pay the price. Have fun, and be lonely. When the guy wanted you to “wear something sexy, “I’m too fat”, wear something sexy, I’m too fat, put on something sexy, “I’m too fat”. I’m leaving! Why? “Your too fat!” Even the guys that aren’t all that good looking get significantly younger women. The one guy that comes in here is with a chick 27 years younger. (he has no money) So all you jaded self righteous older women, keep listening to your magazines , Opra, walk around with your ugly bare legs, drink you 8000 calorie cocalocamocha from7-11 but paint your toe nails and get a tattoo on your ankle, and think some guy is supposed to find you attractive? Men don’t want to sit and hold hands, or go “walking on the beach at sunset drinking wine with a full figured (FAT) woman”. That is your dose of reality! As Jack Nicholson said in As Good As It Gets, “I take a man and take away all reason and accountability” no truer words have been spoken!
I disagree. I am married 22 years with a man who is ten years younger. We have no kids. I have no money. He is worth 1.4 million and we dont plan on divorcing. He loves me and i love him. He is irish and i am puerto rican. Sorry but your theory does not hold. Everybody is different and some people take marriage seriously and meet the love of their lives.
People accept it because it’s always been the norm. Women have been valued for the ability to have children and men for their ability to provide. Is it fair? No. Do I think it will change? No
Vicki,
I hear what you’re saying 100% about the double standard, I’m generally attracted to younger men as well. I’m 46 but people always think I’m around 33. However, a 38 year old anyone with a 17 or 18 year old anyone is a bit much…and this is coming form someone who finds many 20-something year old men insanely attractive. I wouldn’t date them though..they are too close to my 24 year old daughter’s age. Admiring is ok, (but I feel like even that should have some age boundaries, for instance, your waiter crush was a newborn when you were 20). I’m really not trying to judge, but if we say that’s acceptable, then are we also saying its acceptable for men (or women) in their 20’s, 30’s or above to also be attracted to children?
Evan Has hit it on the head. We want easy.
First some back ground. I am a. 49 yr old lawyer, divorced w 2 kids that I have 1/2 time. I am relatively sane, relatively reasonable & considerate, relatively presentable, relatively fun & entertaining and relatively financially secure. And yes, I have my fair share of issues just like everyone else.
I don’t have much of a problem meeting and dating women. But I do have a challenge meeting women that I am interested in having an LTR with. Why? Because at this point in my life I don’t want a women who is trying to change me> I don;t want hassles. I don’t want difficult. I want easy. After pondering this for a few years I have concluded that easy and pleasant are the 2 most important qualities in a women for me — More important that attractiveness, more important than great sex.
In theory I have no issue with successful, intelligent women. But my experience has shown me that, as Evan says, they can often be anxious, self-righteous, negative, and entitled. (NOT EASY)
Sorry, I wish it wasn’t true, but for me it seems to be.
Ladies., if you want to get into an LTR you might consider thinking about what is really important for you and what you can live without.
Hadley Page
“Easy” means not having any of your own needs – you exist strictly to make the man happy! Who needs that?
Most middle aged men are ful of anxiety as well – who isn’t at middle age?
I agree with Joan – men sit at home in front of the tube. They don’t go out, or can’t afford to. I want find any and I live in a big city where most people are doing well financially. Heaven forbid if a woman is doing well financially. Men seem to turn pea green with envy. They don’t want to be less successful than their date for sure.
I had a lovely date with an attorney in which we spent two hours talking – and not about carees or money. He walks me to my car and immediately his ego was crushed because of what car I drive? Unbelievable but understandable – men need to be in control of everything and women are suppose to be “easy” or stupid or dependent. How romantic!
I say give up Joan. You are looking for a needle in a haystack – and quite frankly – who needs the hassle of walking on eggshells around someone’s ego. Let them date and pay for the 30 something drama queens with a brood of children.
Have fun out there –
@Joanne: I don’t think anyone’s suggesting that we not have our own needs or that we exist to make men happy. It’s more about being a bit more agreeable (probably great advice not just with the guy you’re dating but also with family and platonic friends, too).
For example,
if someone you care about makes a mistake and sincerely apologises, you graciously accept and move on instead of holding a grudge.
if you there’s no movie at the cinema that interests you but your loved one is DYING to see something that isn’t necessarily your cup of tea (eg. you generally prefer historical dramas or comedies and he wants to watch <Battle of the Ninja Robots,>) that you just watch what he wants, with no complaints.
if someone takes you to dinner at a restaurant where the food is mediocre, you express gratitude that someone picked you up, took you out, and that you don’t have to spend the next half hour washing/ cleaning up after the meal instead of whining about the overcooked mackerel
This is the sort of kind & forgiving attitude I appreciate in a man (as well as friends and family) and that men also seem to find appealing in women.
i think by “easy” he means we don’t get the whole run around about how we act. we know who we are now just as much an older woman knows themselves. we don’t want someone to change us or be unhappy if we cant/wont. we don’t want someone who’s too busy to make a real go of it. we don’t want someone who is hard to get along with period.(now THAT is drama) I prefer older women, I’ve dated 3 out of 35 though in the past 20 years because they try to change me or they have so much going on that they have no time to chill and hang out. i learned a lesson a while back: its not about finding someone whose perfect, its about finding someone with flaws that you can live with. To the woman who wrote the letter, if most men are staying in and watching TV on the weekends its probably because we worked all week and are tired or we honestly think there’s no good reason to go out( IE wont meet anyone). most guys my age will not go places alone because we don’t want to be “that sad guy over there” all by ourselves.
It’s so true!:)))
“I don’t have much of a problem meeting and dating women. But I do have a challenge meeting women that I am interested in having an LTR with. Why? Because at this point in my life I don’t want a women who is trying to change me> I don;t want hassles. I don’t want difficult. I want easy. After pondering this for a few years I have concluded that easy and pleasant are the 2 most important qualities in a women for me – More important that attractiveness, more important than great sex.”
Funny…that’s how I feel also – I don’t want guys trying to change me either. But, when I say it, I get told I have to change or no man will want to be with me. But, when you, a man, says it people chime in about how women shouldn’t try to change men.
But, it feels to me like Evan’s whole program is tellling women we have to change, but then telling us to be authentic in the relationship with no recognition those two things don’t always co-exist.
For me, the more authentic I am, the less dates I have, and the more I pretend to be someone else, the type of woman that Evan and Karmic Equation are always harping on how women should be and how wonderful these types of women are – they are right, the more dates I have.
But, it doesn’t feel right to me at all. Why should pretend to be helpless, incompetent, or like I don’t know the answer to something when I do just so some man can feel better about himself? We are always told we shouldn’t external validation if we love ourselves, how is this any different if he’s a guy? Besides, a guy that’s so insecure he can’t deal with fact I’m competent and smart, isn’t attractive to me anyway.
Plus, when I have to pretend to be someone I’m not, I feel like a fake and I don’t find it very enjoyable. Most of the time my takeaway is if the guy is having a good, hassle free time that’s all that matters.
Hi Hadley
You speak openly,honestly,along with Truth😊
Thank you
Hope
Cheshire England UK .
I’m coming into this discussion late.
Have you noticed in this exchange that women’s behavior/demeanor etc is being put to blame here, and men are being let off scott free?
Don’t get me wrong. I think it is quite valid to point out that older women who have developed higher standards should put a plug on their nagging harpie tendencies–if indeed that is truly how they are coming across.
But is it?
How are men coming across? Likeable? Confident? Mature? Chivalrous? Relationship material?
The underlying message in the commentary here is that women are the ones who need to change their flawed behavior.
Why? Because we want relationships more than men do?
Here is the sad truth: more women, across the board, at all ages, are opting to be single because they do not like the quality of men out there.
There are now more single women than married women and the numbers are expected to grow. This is an historical development
the numbers are going to continue to grow until men elect to examine their own behavior and not put the responsibility of change squarely on women.
So I guess there is going to be a whole lot of sexual frustration going on in both corners.
c’est la vie.
I am a woman and I strongly agree with your response regarding the ‘quality’ of single men available which. This can sometimes be discouraging and make dating a bit challenging. I think it is important to be active and open to meeting people and trying new venues which keeps the dating game fun and interesting.
Thank you
Excellent point Suze! I completely agree about how it nearly always seem to come down to what women are doing wrong and how we can adjust if we want to have any kind of relationship with a man. Which may be true because it looks like we’re the ones expected to change more often. I think it’s due to well, 1000’s of years of the power paradigm being structured one way and suddenly in the 20th+ centuries it’s being challenged and is changing to go into another direction altogether, completely foreign to humanity …and with it comes a whole lotta growing [email protected] For us and them!
I think in particular American men have a really difficult time with the emotional elements of life, relationships etc.
I always try to work on my [email protected]#t and grow with people and don’t always get the same in return from the men in my life, friend or lover. It’s easy to become jaded and give up….Meh… but I don’t wanna! 🙂
No man is perfect. Just as no woman is perfect. So unless you, yourself, are indeed perfect, there is always room for improvement.
If you don’t want to adjust to men, that is certainly your prerogative.
However, you telling men to change won’t make them change. You have absolutely NO control over anyone but yourself. So either you change, so that YOU can MORE EFFECTIVELY get what you want.
Or you can stagnate as you are and just complain about how come no man wants to stay with you beyond the first b*ng, assuming you let them get that far. And if you let a man get that far, knowing how imperfect and unchanging he will be, you have no one to blame but yourself if he disappears.
So don’t date. Don’t listen to dating experts. Don’t post on blogs. Save your energy and time and continue as you are. You sound so happy.
Karmic Equation sounds like me. And I totally agree!
It’s not power. It’s practicality. Quick: how can a man “change” you? How can he “make you” love him? How can he “make you” commit to him? How can he “make you” communicate more effectively and shed the demons of your past relationships. He can’t. All he can do is accept you as you are, and if he can’t accept you, find a woman he CAN accept. Same advice goes for women. What part of that do you disagree with?
So if this is a blog for women, wouldn’t it make sense to give women, y’know, some actual ADVICE, as opposed to “You’re perfect. You’re doing everything right. He has to change”. Wouldn’t that be a boring read? Furthermore, who would it help? No one. Advice for women cannot be “men should change” because that’s called validation, not advice. Advice is about what YOU can do differently. So, what can you differently? You can adjust to him or you can dump him. You can’t change him. It’s not your job. It’s not your right. No more than it’s his right to change you.
Are we done with this?
U did give up babe
Thank you for saying this. All the advice i see given to women are how we need to understand how men work and the many ways in which we overwhelm them. How often are men told to become more in tune with their emotions and understand the way the woman’s brain is wired? We are all apparently hard-wired a certain way..so why is it that we must bow down to pleasing the male brain? We are continuously told how much we need to change and be maleable in order to please our male counterparts so that one of them will find us “perfect” enough to marry. We just continue to perpetuate and enable “boys will be boys”.
“How often are men told to become more in tune with their emotions and understand the way the woman’s brain is wired?”
Actually, every male has been hearing that drumbeat daily for at least the last quarter century. Ironically, the more that men try to do what women said they want, the more women reject/divorce them. Men that cannot or will not be “emo” actually do really well in dating and marriage.
Quarter Century? Oh, no, I’ve been hearing it a LOT longer than that!
So true, it’s a man’s world and always has been…that’s why they don’t think they need to change anything….women have always catered to and deferred to a man…when can we stop?
When women start maintaining the infrastructure, defending the country on the front lines , and doing all the dirty messy jobs that make daily life as you live it possible. Till then, make your man a sandwich . If that gets Your panties in a ruffle , split the check next time you go out. You are strong and independent .
“There are now more single women than married women and the numbers are expected to grow. This is an historical development
the numbers are going to continue to grow until men elect to examine their own behavior and not put the responsibility of change squarely on women.”
==================================================
Well Suze your 1st paragraph is correct – as for the 2nd paragraph, in a world where women think 80% of men are ‘below average’ the numbers you speak of are going to grow indefinitely…
I’m married now but before I met my wife I had adjusted to a single life at 26 and frankly had sort of come to the conclusion that I would remain single and was OK with that having given up long ago around my early 20s after repeatably going to bars and clubs only to come home empty handed instead preferring to stay in with my other friends in similar circumstances.
Of course not being much of a internet user back then or a reader of women’s magazines I hadn’t realized the shift that was taking place and started to get asked out a lot once I got into my later 20s. Well eventually I met my wife and yes she is about 10 years younger so I’m one of those guys and that was that.
My point is this. Guys are willing to take a lot of crap to get sex especially the younger they are. However the older they get it just stops being worth it.
You say that women shouldn’t have to change. OK – That’s your choice.
I didn’t change when I was younger. I wasn’t forward enough. I didn’t put enough thought into my appearance. I wouldn’t do anything I didn’t want because a woman wanted me to. Well the women where perfectly happy without me. I had no value in the marketplace yet I was behaving like I did.
It was the biggest mistake I made and frankly most of my 20s I was pretty miserable.
Women have no value in the marketplace over a certain age and you have to adapt.
The men will be fine no matter what.
“Women have no value in the marketplace over a certain age and you have to adapt.” Wow!!! Thanks for telling all older women we have no value. It’s appreciated. You have made us all feel so much better and hopeful for the future! 😉
So, my question for you is this, how do we adapt to having no value? And if we have no value, what’s the point in changing anything? It won’t give us anymore value. What does the cost benefit analysis look like?
Those are awesome questions I would like to know the answers to as well Cat! John, can you help us ladies out?
Cat5,
I really don’t think he meant it that way. I am 25 year old male currently, so I am where he was at probably several years ago. I’ve seen what he is talking about, and I have even started feeling it myself recently. Despite what you may think guys under I’d say 26 to 28 do have a really hard time dating and an impossible time finding love. Especially the ones who grow into the fit successful men in their 30s everyone wants. We were overlooked, constantly rejected, and put up with so much let down that many of us had to “Adjust” aka pretty much giving up on finding anything with a semblance of being real. The younger we were, the worse it was too. Suddenly though we graduate college and get a career going, then the money and confidence begins flowing in. Our jawlines get sharper and we look more masculine (if you take care of yourself), now we are in our early 30s. Being a nerd and working hard has paid off, but we still want a family, we still want the ” young hot girl” we were never “qualified for”, and we realize girls we would have dated years ago when we had no value (they weren’t too hot for us either), no longer are good enough for us. (I will say if you bag one of these guys when he’s younger you’d have much better luck with a husband from what I’ve seen.) Some young men peak later than others. The attractive women our age who rejected us (usually for older successful guys or complete a holes generally speaking if he’s our age) for the past decade are getting too old for children now (or have them), and we want our own families, so we look younger. We figured we paid our dues, we are successful and now valued romantically, it’s now our game for the first time ever and it’s definitely new to be in that position. Unfortunately the dynamic turns around at that point and things get more challenging for older women wanting something real. It is yet another way nature balances itself. You do have value as a human and as a woman. You just do not have the romantic value you did back when serious minded good men who still want to start families would look at you as a dating option.
P.S. I did this on my phone, pardon grammer and spelling mistakes please.
Different John – I think the reality is that you want to give yourself permission to look down on women simply because you’ve had heart ache and rough experiences in life. And now you think all women should be punished for your own persona heartache.
Dating has never been very easy for me either. Even when I was in my 20s. Men where not beating down my door and I was not coldly rejecting them. I was rejected often myself infact. I was over looked. I watched men pursue my more attractive friends. So why should I (and any other women who have their own unique dating experiences and struggles) be punished now just because you had a hard time dating when you were younger and have developed a strange vindictive idealism about what you believe you deserve as a 30 something man compared to your 30 something year old female contemporaries? Perhaps you should take some time to get to know who women really are and what their dating experiences truly have been. I think you like holding onto the idea that dating was a wonderfully magical place of fun for young women that abused their power and now deserve to be seen as having less worth then what you wish for yourself. I think you secretly enjoy this. Not because it’s reality, but because it gives you permission to look down on women.
Honestly, most men at 26 actually don’t want to settle down. They want to party, have fun, explore their options and pursue the hottest of girls. They aren’t looking to start families with nice young women. So please stop justifying your current brand of misogony against women just because you have pain and heartache in dating. Every human being has that regardless of their age. When you see women as human beings, then your eyes will be open to this. Until then, I’m sure you will continue to justify to yourself that you’re now a more worthy human being then women your own age simply because like every single man and woman on the earth, experienced rough times and heartache in love. Thanks for completely denying women any humanity.
If you didn’t depend on your looks when you were younger, and developed your character and knowledge this wouldn’t be a problem. Of course this is a generalization , not all women were like that in their youth.
John, I think your comment lacks tact and sensitivity towards the ladies here because of the way you wrote those last two sentences.
By the way, I’m glad you found a nice lady after trying so long with no success.
I guess I’m one of those lucky ladies who doesn’t struggle getting dates or offers of commitment from men her own age and even younger. I don’t make a lot of money, and I don’t have any hang ups about age.
I know my value as a good woman and all I have to offer if I were to meet a man I want to be in a LTR with. I am not desperate, and I know I’m better off single until/if I meet the right man.
So, why don’t I struggle like other ladies in their late 30s or 40s, etc, finding men their age?
One thing, I hate nagging, I’m not pushy, and yes, in a date I let them feel like the man. I’m confident enough.
Ladies out there, if you feel anxious due to your job, kids, etc, take up meditation, yoga, or any other relaxing activities. As we get older our lives get a little busier sometimes and can leave us chronically stressed and it affects romance and dating since it shows in our behavior and faces. – This applies to men too.
I find your message very insightful and admirable for a younger man because our wants and desires do motivate our actions. I am a recently divorced woman and it is inspirational to know that younger men like yourself can see dating from both genders! Glad you found your soulmate and thanks for the message, it was helpful for me!
No, there will just be some men sharing more than one woman. And the face-saving rhetoric you older women continue to manufacture will continue, but the audience that sees right through it will continue to grow.
Complaints about “there are no good men!” can easily be translated into
“everything is so damn expensive!”
Dating exists in a marketplace. In this market men offer value in exchange for women and women offer value in exchange for men. The point at which an exchange is made is called the price point.
What there is, is a shortage at the price point offered by women to men. That is, what women are offering to men, at their price point, is not of enough value for them to offer more in return. What we have is not a true shortage, it is a refusal to pay the true value. It is a refusal to pay the true price for what women want men to offer them.
The problem is not with men, the problem is with the women complaining being too poor.
Well, simply put, there is tonnes if advice and in fact a whole little industry about how men should change to become more attractive to women.
Exactly.
Absolutely!
my regards from Canada
Ah, Fun one.
I think Evan is quite right, fair or not!
Us fabulous, wonderful, sexy, and smart older women do need to learn to project oursleves in a more easy going manner.
We need to also examine our expectations AND our preferences.
Sadly statistics are NOT in aging women’s favor and so even MORE reason to learn to play more effectively and extend the playground. The keyword here is ‘play’ and being ‘playful’.
Even if older, that attitude will help us appear as youthful and fun. (and we will feel and benefit from that too)
Yes, our stage of life and what one is willing to embrace does effect the pool of possibilities.
As one’s children are out of the home, one could maybe date a younger man who does not wish children, as well as an older man whose children are also gone. Also at that stage one may be more ‘easy-going’ and relaxed as pressures lift and priorities change.
Christian Carter is a consultant to note, who speaks to what men want very clearly and understands a perspective of women. Like it or not, women should listen.
In fact a woman should listen carefully to what each of the men she dates say, and can question (lightly and playfully) to seek to understand. She can also ask for feedback from male friends.
That said, Suze is correct too. Many men want easy and simple – ‘seamless’.
Some are as deluded in their search as some women, not ready to realize that life itself is never seamless and it takes work to maintain and repair.
They may find simple in a younger woman (at first) but as she matures, or feels sercurer in a relationship, she may start making more ‘demands’ and set more limits too. Also circumstances may make things more complex and the skill set a woman has to deal with this may become more important.
ALL could benefit by examining preferences, willingness to flex, and to communicate better- in a more attentive and easy-going manner.
Suze is right- many women choose to divorce and stay single because many men ARE so difficult and inflexible, and not fun or easy-going (remember Girls just want to have fun too)
In the midst of so many work, family commitments, financial stressors- it is hard to be ‘easy-going’.
The trick is finding a way to center still, flirt, maintain openess.
Luck helps too. Also one’s skills at discrimination,
As Evan says- great to keep being out there and not mistake lack of success as a sign that it is impossible , or to justify a judgment of the pool of ALL men.
Sometimes we just don’t match up. C’est la vie.
And the ones that reject us to enter a relationship of drama with someone else- well those are ones we may not want anyway. Don’t be jealous. It may not be happy for those two- nor last.
I am 53 and 10 years post divorce, have at times felt hopeless, but have continued to be ‘out’ there, with my interests, with my family, online- wherever. It does take energy, creativity and means.
I have recently begun a very hopeful relationship with a man who is early in the divorce process. Could be an issue but I determined it was worth a go. We are both aware of the potential pitfalls.
So far we meet each others preferences and can match desires.
The best part is we BOTH are taking personal responsibilty, are seeking balance in our own lives, COMMITTED to FUN, and not expecting perfection. We are each committed to creating beauty in our lives with each other and others- regardless of what lasts or does not last.
Timing and luck has played a part in allowing this to unfold, willingness and grabbing opportunities another piece, and the rest has been the self-evaluation and growth we have undertaken before meeting. We are committed to continuing wherever it may lead.
No guarantees-
Best,
Alison
Also you may enjoy going to my blog and following links to some commentaries on Midlife dating, dating dilemmas, realistic or unrealistic preferences and expectations, how to manage being hot (or not) at 50, and when nice is not so nice.
You can also google the Amherst Bulletin on these topics.
and I highly suggest tango or other partner dancing to both sexes to develop better skills, awareness, and to maintain youthfulness.
Why bother to do all that? According to John “Women have no value in the marketplace over a certain age and you have to adapt.” So what’s the point? 0 value times 1,000,000 changes still = 0 value/no value.
Sincerely,
An older woman with no value 🙂
Yep..its not rocket science ..but a simple biology from the evolution point of view..Guys like fertile women ; 1) symmetrical face… 2) long legs 3) large boobs 4) wide hips 5)Rosy lips …. High pitched voice ..why coz its a sign of Fertility!! and dat defines beauty…Women will be after 1)money 2) Bushy eyebrows ..3)low pitched voice 4) Height etc..Why? it denotes fertility and dat the offspring will be better served!! So we all r born with the primary instict..Reproduce and Reproduce !! Feminism will give u one thing !! 1) Sagging boobs 2) loneliness 3)Arrogancy and guys will run away!! coz guys like to dominate not to get dominated…..nd d time a women dominates a Man…the relationship is dead!! a Man without self-respect is of no Value…..Neither wud a women like a low self esteemed man…………….No Feminism, only Humanism
You have to consider the big picture that you’re not going to click with every guy. I wonder how Joan has been going about meeting men other than online, and if this is her first foray into the dating world after being married.
Also, what kinds of track records do these men have? I’ve found a huge difference when dating men who are beyond a certain age and have been married or in LTR’s vs. those who have not – a certain maturity and realistic expectations when it comes to relationships.
If a guy can’t handle dating an emotionally balanced woman you wouldn’t want to be with someone like that anyway. It can seem daunting if you keep meeting these types of men but I believe there are good guys out there, just need to change your ways of meeting them beyong bars, online, etc.
And Evan, I don’t believe that women over 35 have their options limited – I know of many women into their 40’s who’ve ended up finding someone AND having children. I’m sure that some women have issues preventing them from having fulfilling relationships but I think that men who reject women because of their age generally don’t do so because they want children (as they claim), they’re really afraid of commitment and ‘being rushed’. I know of some of these men and they’re into their late 40’s and STILL single, still looking for that perfect woman who doesn’t exist, meanwhile dating psycho-chicks.
Wow, where to start? I must first comment that I have heard the term ’emotionally available’ (or unavailable) regarding men defined at least a dozen different ways by a like number of people of both sexes. It is an amorphous phrase with no specific meaning. I therefore do not know what Joan writes about.
Since most of the posts are from women, I’ll state things from my oh so humber male perspective. I write not to cast stones at the fairer sex, but to balance the viewpoints a bit.
One must realize that in the age brackets we discuss here (40+) most of the men (and women) have been through at least one divorce, long-term relationship, or other similar trauma. Of the divorces (btw, the divorce rate in Scottsdale, where I am, is approximately 70%), 70% of them are initiated by the women (can be independently verified). I am going to assume for sake of argument that the numbers are similar for non-marriage relationships also. What I’m getting at is that, in all likelihood (70%), a man had his marriage or most significant relationship ended by a woman. I’m not getting into questions of blame – that’s another discussion. Simply, she initiated the breakup.
So, men in the 40+ age range are more likely to be cautious in committing their hearts, minds, and assets to a realtionship.
I could not disagree with Suze more. She wrote “I think it is quite valid to point out that older women who have developed higher standards should put a plug on their nagging harpie tendencies–if indeed that is truly how they are coming across.” Developed higher standards? Is she so much better? Sorry to say, but these superioroty assumptions and entitlement mentality are why so many older men are reluctant to jump into relationships. No man should deal with any nagging harpie. The ‘nagging harpie’ usually surfaces after marriage and the legal commitment exists. But I digress….
Suze further wrote, “Here is the sad truth: more women, across the board, at all ages, are opting to be single because they do not like the quality of men out there.” See my comment on divorce, above. Women are opting to be single, particularly in the 40+ range after divorcing. They are ‘opting’ to discard the life they initially chose like an outdated outfit, particularly the men they initially chose.
It’s interesting. Suze thinks that men need to change further to suit women, it appears. My personal belief is that men should, for the most part, ignore chasing women. Instead, they should focus on their careers, friends and community. Women will seek them out.
Alison also writes thoughtfully on the subject of family pressures, children and the like. I would like to note that she also shares the same wrongheaded assumptions Suze possesses when she wrote, “Suze is right- many women choose to divorce and stay single because many men ARE so difficult and inflexible, and not fun or easy-going (remember Girls just want to have fun too).” Huh? Difficult and inflexible? I don’t want to parse words, but my general observation is that men in general do not change their personality over time. Perhaps she thinks she should change for her – a wrong belief….
Here is man’s perspective. Men like younger women. They are usually more fun, usually physically more attractive, less likely to have shrew-like harpie tendencies. After the aforementioned divorce or ended long term relationship, most men I have talked to just want something simple and to have fun. They often see their 20’s and 30’s as a waste of their youth and fun time due to their previously mentioned divorce, LTR. Now in their 40’s they prefer younger, simpler women.
However, Alison alludes to something powerful – “They may find simple in a younger woman (at first) but as she matures, or feels sercurer in a relationship, she may start making more ‘demands’ and set more limits too.” Why demand? What limits? Most men have experienced this, particularly ones who were married. What I’ve founds is that as soon as there is some tpye of significant entalglement (living together, joint bank account, marriage, etc…) women get more ‘secure’ and start making more demands, since for the man, extricating himself from the relationship is now messy, expensive, and difficult.
The above paragraph brings me to another point – ladies would be well-served to quit worrying about a man’s income, and assets so much. This is its own separate subject, but every time I or my friends meet a woman, the inquiry is always about my occupation and neighborhood, indirectly inquiring about my income. This is treated on other parts of this site, but it should be mentioned here. I bring this up to make the point that men have no qualms going for younger women, since all women, younger and older, look at him and his wallet. This is a generalization, but an accurate one.
Also, this is very non-PC, but so what? Men can afford to go after younger women also. Not monetarily speaking, but in this way – Men, as we age, generally get more distinguished and attractive (presuming we don’t go completely to pot) to a wider range of women older & younger. Our options increase. Women simply do not. Their options therefore reduce as men’s options increase.
Additionally, regarding men’s preferences – Men without children almost always do not want to date women with children. I will state this simply (and do to women I meet) – I do not want my dating and social life to revolve around someone else’s children and their soccer games, practices, after school activities and the like. I chose not to have children, value my freedom, and act accordingly.
One man’s perspective….
And yet, those 40+ guys with the pot bellies and grey hair can still attract women if they are significantly successful. Men realize that as long as they have a decent career and make money, women will be interested in them. So why not go for a younger woman? Since women are more likely to file for divorce and break up relationships, why shouldn’t the men choose the younger women and enjoy their youth and beauty until the inevitable breakup?
Now you said that you are being trained to go with the younger men. Trained? You can’t make your own decisions? You want to date younger men, go ahead. But I suspect you don’t want to date younger men because you know that they don’t make that much money. You don’t want to provide for a younger man who doesn’t have the successful career and income status because if he did, he would go for a woman his own age and younger.
You mentioned the age of the man’s sperm. Well, if an older man wants to have children, he realizes that he would need a younger woman to have children with since he knows that the odds of two older people having children together are not as good and you need at least one younger parent to raise the children as both get older.
And just because a woman is older doesn’t mean that she will actually care for a man. Women are more likely to initiate breakups so that’s why men are going for the easier relationships with younger women – they want to enjoy what they can for as long as it will last.
Men get more attractive as they age???!!! Sorry that is a total myth…from my experience women take way better care of their appearance and look much better…it’s that male ego that always thinks he look great….not….women will overlook that a man doesn’t look as great…if he is powerful, has money or is a great person…unfortunately men don’t overlook anything in older women even if they look way younger than him!
It is not a TOTAL myth that men get more attractive as they age. Some do, some don’t in the same way that some women get more attractive and some don’t. A lot of men and women in their 50s and older do go to the gym and take care of themselves.
Plus, men are not the only ones with egos. A lot of women have egos too and think that they may be more desirable than they really are. Everyone needs to put their egos aside from time to time and assess their flaws and weaknesses. Sorry, but your experience is not everyone’s experience.
And men overlook a lot in relationships with women. It is women who are more likely to file for divorce. That shows that women don’t overlook what men do as you claim.
lol, no dears, men DO NOT become more attractive as they age. Maybe Justin Bieber did but he’s still in his early 20s. Men become less attractive to me and I am in my late 20s. The only thing that would make me go out with someone 10 years older is his income. It better be over 6 figures and he still has to be somewhat attractive. Sorry, I’m still young and hot. I have standards.
And an older man with a high income may want a prettier, younger woman than you are with a high income as well. Sorry, but many older men have standards too.
Serl – desiring a younger, prettier partner has nothing to do with ‘standards’. Alot of men do infact pick their partners based on looks and then 3-5 years down the road, they wonder why they don’t get a long with this person or possibly don’t even like them.
Just as a woman picking a man with a lot of money is also not about ‘standards’. THat’s like the opposite of ‘standards’.
Lol, older men and older women may not meet YOUR standards of attraction. But I admire people who are older, successful, confident and fit. It’s the whole package, not just one feature. And people who have the whole package may not necessarily find you to be a suitable mate if all you have to offer is being young and hot. Sorry, but many others have standards.
AllHeart81 – Standards are whatever people set them out to be. When it comes to choosing a mate, a person can set whatever standards she or he pleases even those standards may not be reasonable or realistic.
If a man takes care of himself and a woman takes care of herself the man will look better as they age. We will not include land whales of either gender in the aforementioned statement.
I agree with you- To answer her question . They (the Men) are where you left them in her 20’s. By the time we reach 30, as men we no longer think off women as special or shiny in anyway shape or form. Infact to males reading this. DONT marry there are no benefits to your own health working and doing everything for a female. Its so cot worth it. Most women who are 20 30 today, dont even know how too cook, you know like real food, in my marrige i have to do that as well, along with everything that comes with a house, inside and out. WHY would any male want this….for what…dont you like having friends? Well guess what women don’t have any real friends, they dont know how to be friends with other girls. So what happens is that YOU loose your close group of friends, because you feel bad leaving her alone by her self on the couch. Also women GET SO FAT, when they get married, do you know why…. because moving is a task for most women. Its a chore. Its easier to make fat acceptance a thing then to move for most married women. Sure they work, but they can’t manage money… and never do any maintenance AT ALL, you will not only fix your car, but you will have to fix hers, and even do things that her hands should be doing like vacuuming it. I guess what im saying is dont get married, what is in it for you? Nothing, and 70% of women end up cheating in the marriage at some point look it up. 70% of domestic VIOLENCE is committed by the female, that’s right there is a hidden Harvard study that you can see for your self. Also she will only be having sex with you until you get married, it turns out women 70% of them are not into sex because they want it, they use it as a reward for BS like getting a coffee. She does not have the 17X testosterone you do, she is not consistently producing semen sperm, and does not need the realize you do. 1 in 6 children does not belong to the father the women lied to get married, that is a fact. In fact its so common, there is like 6 TV shows on HDTV daily like maury and THE TEST. So dont get married, and DONT sign any BIRTH CERTIFICATES until you have a DNA TEST with the mother. Unless you want to be a patsy. Women are not special, take that vag off the pedestal, I dont need to tell you this, by 30 we all get to the same lousy conclusion.
With all due respect, most men I know have not gotten “more distinguished and attractive” as they’ve become older. I do know of quite a few who have developed baldness, erectile disfunction, joint problems, and fat bellies. I don’t mean to offend, but it’s just reality. And yes, there are some older men who have aged better than other men.
That is a phrase started by older men many years ago, and maybe by younger women going after their money without making the men feel so taken advantage of.
I am reminded of the quote “Men marry women and hope they don’t change. Women marry men and hope they do”.
Verbosity, “emotionally unavailable” generally means not able to commit emotionally to a relationship, whether someone wants to or not.
Just because most relationships/marriages are ended by women (according to the stats you cite) doesn’t mean that the relationship was a good one. Some women end relationships because men are not willing or able to take it to the next level – i.e. dating exclusively or marriage. Other times it’s because the marriages weren’t good ones and despite all the counselling it’s not working, often times it’s the man who’s unwilling to change enough to focus on his relationship with his wife.
If a guy wants to be with a ‘younger simpler’ (naive?) woman to try to relive his 30’s that he lost being married, that’s not the guy who’s looking for a serious mature relationship IMHO.
There are a number of men who haven’t even been married and haven’t a clue how to treat a woman respectfully. I think these are the guys Joan is referring to.
@ just my thoughts…
“Men are not willing to take the relationship to the next level.” What does that mean? What is the next level and who decided what the next level should be? What if a man talked that way and told his wife/girlfriend that she needs to go to the next level? Women seem to create these standards and levels and expect men to live up to them but hate it when it is the other way around. Also, too many women treat personal relationships as they treat their careers – they expect “promotions” after a certain period of time. Personal relationships should be nurtured and respected, not treated as some type of commercial transaction.
In my humble opinion, I think that too many women spend years turning down committed relationships with good men to pursue the bad, sexy men or to work on their careers and then when they get to a certain age, they expect the good men to be available for them. And when they do find these good men, they place unreasonable demands on them and when the men can’t or won’t meet these demands (because who really can meet them), they break up the relationship.
Too many women don’t know how to treat men respectfully. They see men as a resource to be available for them at their beck and call and when the resource doesn’t produce the benefits they think they are entitled to any more, they dispose of it.
And just because a woman is older doesn’t mean that she is mature and ready for a serious, mature relationship; in fact, she is probably desperate IMHO.
Furthermore, so what if a number of men have never been married? Why is that considered some kind of achievement especially in light of the high divorce rates? I think a lot of women prefer to marry a man who is divorced because it is proof that he will be a sucker again since he was a sucker before. But a man who never married? Well, the women realize that he probably won’t be a sucker since he has experienced freedom for a longer period of time. Besides, a lot of woman have never married either. Why don’t you criticize them as well?
A serious, mature relationship is one in which both nurture, love, respect and sacrifice for each other. A one-sided relationship where a woman expects a man to meet her needs and not the other way around has become too common and more men are realizing that. So they opt for easier relationships. Why not? Why be in a relationship that will legally end and take a good chunk of your income and assets? Why have children with someone when they will take away those children from you? If entering into a relationship means winding up in poverty and broken families, why bother entering into that relationship?
As a male i think just like this guy obove me, Its like he is wirtting everything,(really well by the way) that I would be writting too ALONG with 20 of my best friends, who are male as well. Its a fact of life, women step on average nice guys to find the most violent mentally unstable kind they can find, (who is similar to them in every way mentally) The kind of guy she wants to “fix”. Then what that doesn’t work out, over and over and over, at the time that she hits 30, she tries to settle down with anyone who will take her sloppy used up self, before her clock runs out. This is why 70% of young men are not married. WE really are on Strike, decades of being mistreated will do that. SO good luck working for your self. Because the normal good guys dont care to be the 30th penis in you, that is gross, sooo amazingly stretched out and gross. whats that saying….”Why marry the cow when you can get the milk on tinder. ” Or something
70% of young men aren’t married because they have their own deep seeded issues within themselves and with women. Anyone who refers to a woman as “sloppy used up self” does not exactly hold the maturity to see women as fully actualized human beings who are as imperfect as men can be.
And if you actually really understood anything about the female anatomy the vagina does not get ‘stretched out’ based on how many sex partners any one female has had. The way you talk about women reveals your personal lack of maturity and it doesn’t exactly sound very ‘nice’ even though you lay claim to being a ‘nice guy’.
I’m reading all these comments and there is a chunk of single guys who seem hopeful for a nice single gal, a portion of frustrated older women who won’t evaluate themselves and a fair amount of bitter and angry guys who are the exact reason I’m so shy with dating.
I do try to evaluate myself. Make sure I work on my appearance and career and attitude! It’s hard, it’s work so I forgive men and women who can’t do it right away. Don’t give up hope in yourselves or finding someone nice.
All the same though, a core issue with me and dating seems to be entitlement. I’m a woman in mid 20s, work hard to be fit, and am working towards a career that I love. *I’m* told so much to watch my entitlement and standards cause my value lowers as I age (ugh, would you say that to my face on a date?) But men don’t seem to have to watch their entitlement. I can’t date guys who just play video games all day. And expects barbie dolls. Partly because I’ve overcome a slight addiction to them myself.
I’m fine with a guy making only a little money to get by. I prefer fellow artists of any variety. 🙂 Yes, I am pretty by society’s standards. But since it takes exercise and hair care to be that way- I’m alright with an average looking guy.
Finding someone with who’s flaws I can live with. Got it. Entitlement, bitterness and blame right off bat? No thanks.
I have hope that there is kindness in all your hearts and I will meet the right partner someday. I hope you can do the same.
Yeah ok “Susan”
Yeah, thanks for that in-depth, well-reasoned response, lol. LOL.
Verbosity, the kind of guy you describe sounds like someone who doesn’t want the emotional responsibility of being in a serious relationship.
True, you can’t change someone’s values or personality quirks. But that’s different than being willing to compromise on certain things, like $$, household chores, etc. If you think that’s what makes someone ‘demanding’ or nagging then there’s a bigger issue here.
Unfortunately, too many women feel they are entitled to the $$ and have someone else do the household chores. They want a man with a high-status career who earns the big money and then come home and do the chores as well even if they are stay-at-home wives. Women have realized that they can’t be superwomen so they expect men to be supermen.
downtowgal, I don’t wish to write a lengthy response. However, I am afraid the context in which I describe the kind of guy appears to be missing from your comment. The salient point I made was that a man, 40-ish, is exactly less likely to jump into a serious relationship. This is so due to some of the factors I stated (see above). Generally, one is reluctant to place their hand on a stove once it has already been burned.
I do not mean this to sound flippant, but I have no idea what that phrase “emotional responsibility” means. It helps to know what that phrase truly means, particularly when used as an ad hominem attack instead of facts, as it is used here.
Regarding money, demands and compromises…my opinion is that men should never, ever commingle money (or loan, or borrow from, etc) with a woman. Why would a woman care how much a man made unless she thought she would benefit from it in some way? By not commingling money (even if married), a potential area of conflict is solved. Further, since women can do the same jobs and earn the same (actually more than) as men for the same work, they should not care one bit what a man makes.
What I think I’m trying to convey regarding the ‘demanding’ issues specifically, is a ceaselesss focus on the faults of guys. We’re not talking about forgetting to take the trash out occasionally. We’re talking about actually telling him on occasion the good things he is/does. Too often it appears the woman’s compromise (in her eyes at least) is even being with the guy at all. Not a good relationship point of view…
Verbosity–I don’t know what era you are from but women are less likely to get into relationships these days. It’s at a 50% level and it’s by choice. Wake up.
Men don’t have leverage on this. You don’t seem to get it.
I think women’s lib turned men into a bunch of angry squalling infants.
I partly blame the whole feminist shift for that…but the end result is that most single men are emotionally crippled and well…not appealing.
I’ve always been this kinda bitchy though…so I won’t pin it on age. I am just super fussy and when I meet the right guy, that’s that.
And quite frankly, the normal healthy guys are generally married (and stay married) by age 35. So you’ve got some mighty slim pickings.
All that means is that it’s going to take longer–and requires patience
So ladies, be patient, and know that a good thing is worth holding for.
Women in their 40s are probably better off with men in their 50s and up. Just make them work hard for your love. That’s all. 🙂
SUZE “Women in their 40s are probably better off with men in their 50s and up. Just make them work hard for your love. That’s all.”
Yes SUZE, make that man work hard for your love. Ummm….Love should be given freely. Any males here see the entitlement? This is in almost every woman. Its outrageous the self entitlement. Why don’t you try working hard for his love? OMG….now they will come out swinging. How dare you suggest a women make an effort for a man. A man is supposed to work hard for the women’s love, and change, and be treated like dirt, and how much do you make again? Hmmm…let me think. No sorry. Ya you ladies are oh so appealing. HAHAHA. Single, Mingling, and loving it.
Mike, that is not the opinion of almost every woman, just because Suze said it. That’s generalizing.
Maybe Suze meant that if the women in their 40s are settling for older men in their 50s, the men are going to have to work harder because these women are not too attracted to them physically ????
By the way, you really have to wonder about a guy who comes onto a woman’s dating advice board and starts harping and nagging and getting all hostile and defensive.
Kinda makes my point, doesn’t it?
Its called posting an opinion Suze. Yes men have those and no they don’ t need your permission.
Evan MarcKatz is a man Suze. Wrong again.
Suze, just to be clear–this is a blog run by a man who gives dating advice to both sexes. Before you engage in an ad hominem attack not on the subject matter, you should first be correct on the basis for your attack (not a women’s dating board only).
Further, Rather than have a rational discussion and a logical disagreement regarding the posted subject with some basis in fact, none was unfortunately posted. I have no idea what you mean by “It’s at a 50% level and it’s by choice.” What exactly is at a 50% level. Divorces? Or the gender initiating divorces? Or something else?
Actually, sorry to rain on your diatribe with some fact, but the divorce rate in AZ is 65% for 2005 (see cdc.gov). CA, the 800 pound gorilla in terms of population (and who do not report divorce stats to Census), is very high:
Year, CA Div.,L.A. Div.,CA Mar.,Divorce %
1996 169,416 38,026 219,039 77.35%
1997 165,547 37,501 237,669 69.65%
1998 161,905 35,706 194,108 83.41%
2000 156,078 36,551 196,896 79.27%
2001 154,672 38,850 224,241 68.98%
2002 160,854 40,468 217,880 73.83%
2003 148,511 38,811 194,914 76.19%
Average Divorce Rate: 75.54%** (Reference: Court Statistics Reports for 1996-2004.)
To be fair, many other states are below 50%….TX, for example, has gone from 47% in ’03 to 43% in ’05. based upon this information, it think it fair to assume the overall divorce rate exceeds 50%, eepecially when the rate of 2nd & 3rd marriages far exceeds 50%.
Of this over 50% divorce rate, women do initiate approximately 70% of all divorces. See Discovery Health, AARP. The whys are irrelevant for this point at least.
The point, you ask? Simple. Many older men, likely having gone through a divorce (and by proxy, a split of a long term relationship) they likly did not initiate, are understandably reluctant to get into another relationship. To ignore this reality is foolish.
I do not understand what Suze menas by “Men don’t have leverage on this.” What is ‘this?’ Many men do not understand they have absolute leverage, particularly as they get a bit older and more established. See above for further explanation, which also refutes Suze’s comment of “Women in their 40s are probably better off with men in their 50s and up.”
There is no merit in addressing or even characterizing The rest of Suze’s comments. They unfortunately speak volumes by themselves…
I don’t mean do add fuel to all that’s been said…but as a lawyer I can tell you: Anyone can pull up statistic with internet and conjure up some very “scientific conclusion (but totally teinted on the person owns perspective on the subject)”. Like the saying goes..” 99.6% of people knows that”. (joke)
So really…using divorce statistic rate to make a point about man “absolute leverage” as so nicely said by Verbosity, it’s not only biased on perhaps his own perspective/or views on the “bad women who actually leaves mans – either divorce or end of LTR” but also look down on women who are in their 40’s because clearly…as said before :”Men, as we age, generally get more distinguished and attractive (presuming we don’t go completely to pot) to a wider range of women older & younger. Our options increase. Women simply do not. Their options therefore reduce as men’s options increase.”. This is not only a presumption and very condescending but also it created a double standard about women’s worth in the dating game. It’s my opinion that this is not a fact…but clearly again, like Evan nicely said, ” a type of false thinking that doesn’t lead to anything positive.”
I personally believe that womens over 40’s are of equal worth against man in the dating game. We as womens do get more distinguished, confident and also more wise about what’s really important as we aged.
Maybe mens want “simple”…Sadly, I agree on that. But I’m kind slightly disappointed in womans older then myself…Women wiser and into their 40’s….I mean as a women over 40’s you have to think about this for second. At this stage, you have probably raised children successfully, they’re grown and have their own life, you might have been through divorce or a failed relationship (who dumped who here or statistic is so not relevant ), you been around the “stage” of dating long enough to know a few hidden tricks going on behind the curtains and you also have on the other hand, possibly LTR or a marriage during a number of year and also lead /or still lead a very stimulating career. I’m not trying to play the feminist card or anything like that. But my question is :With clearly the value of life’s experiences that womens over 40’s possess why not wonder : why are some mens over 40 singles? It’s just a thought…There might be something there!
Ok,the mens over 40 or even men under that age group in fact, may want “simple”, “easy come and easy go” type of attitude or “fun “…The truth as i see it, It’s true!! Fun, simple and quietly breezy is great!!! But clearly not in the long run. Let’s face it and be honest about this, life doesn’t cut it for “simple” and “take it easy” attitude always. I think that It might be quite a change from life’s demanding nature to have “simple” for a while, but “simple” just don’t last in the long run. I might also add and it’s only my legal point of view but…some marriage might have failed because after a few years and a lot of unresolved issues on both parts…”simple” is the way to do things, nothing gets solved and things then fall apart. We tend to put things underneath the surface just to keep the peace or the harmony in the relationship. What happens to “commitment” ?? (see “commitment” : when you are willing to give your time and energy to something that you believe in, or a promise or firm decision to do something (Cambridge dict.))
My point is exactly this : as we get older we want someone to be there for all of it not just the “simple stuff” but even the heavier-unexpected-stuff that are bounds to come down the road. “Simple” doesn’t really last, “simple” is gone out the door the minute a bump in the road comes along. That’s telling it like it is. Womens shouldn’t put their judgment aside and try to be “all is breezy” and “let’s not think to much it might scare the poor fella away”. They should in the beginning of a relationship be able to let loose and enjoy the moment, be able to “take it easy”, it’s nice for a while. But I personally think that a really “distinguished man” who have any life’s experiences and some backbone will no doubts embrace and appreciate a women who can be “the deep and wiser” women that the women over 40 is, and put the breezy “fun and simple” on the side.
I also have to say to men…Simple is fun for anyone, under or over 40, sure “simple” makes very good dating in the short term but it’s not what makes it in the long term. The problem might be that, as we do with other subjects…we don’t wanna see the tough truth behind things, it’s either better to blame the person in front of us or simpler to be in denial…
Also, I might be overly idealistic about it or us as womens..but ladies I can only say this : you should believe in things that “empower” the essence of who you are as a women and as a person. Not the “simple” version of it that leaves us with a sense limitation about our worth.
I might be younger, i might even be able to still act the “simple carefree naive way” from times to times that mens seem so fonds of…but I already know from life experiences that “simple” doesn’t make it in the end. I believe that for a true LTR, strong, authentic, distinguished mens with character go for womens who possess the qualities they possess themselves. A strong, authentic and distinguished women with character who surely can “take it easy” and be up for some “smooth sailing without excess complications”….but not for a women who define herself or let mens define her as “simple”.
P.s. I also need to add that i think that it’s for the same reason younger man are now considering dating womens older than them or in their 40’s …simply because womens in their 40’s know what they want, they have character and depth…because that’s so much more than “simple”. It’s way better;)
As a younger women, I would really appreciate comments from womens older than I am about my opinion stated in my post. Thanks you in advance.
Nota bene…I know there is more than one error in grammar, verbs, etc…Just be nice and understanding please 🙂 Thanks!
@Melina
Yes, everyone wants someone who will help you with the heavy-lifting as you both grow older, but that is becoming more and more rare. You seem to think that marriage means a lifetime commitment. It hasn’t meant that for decades. Nowadays, marriage means a claim to someone else’s assets and income after a divorce. Divorce among the elderly has skyrocketed as well. Google grey divorce.
Women keep discussing marriage in terms of what it should be. But they are the first to end marriage when they feel they are not getting out of it what they should. So men are realizing, why bother in the first place?
“With clearly the value of life’s experiences that womens over 40”²s possess why not wonder : why are some mens over 40 singles? It’s just a thought…There might be something there!”
Perhaps the reason why there are a lot of men over 4o who are still single is because of their life experiences? Their parents are divorced, their uncles and aunts are divorced, their friends, neighbors and co-workers are divorced. Furthermore, they may have suffered through some painful breakups as well. And of course, they witness the misery that couples who are still together go through. That’s why they choose not to marry.
“I personally believe that womens over 40’s are of equal worth against man in the dating game. We as womens do get more distinguished, confident and also more wise about what’s really important as we aged. ”
==========================================
Well bully for you Melina, but it doesn’t mean anything in the real world – your whole post seems to be wishful thinking – unfortunately it’s going totally against biology and is just not realistic.
Biology has rules for men as well. Nature wants men to be infertile as they get older, by making them impotent, to reduce “older father” illnesses passed to their children.
Some older men are sought after by younger women interested in their money. But younger women and older women are not blind and are more attracted to younger males, more muscle, more hair, thicker skin, more sexual, etc.
Basically, why reduce men or women to pieces of meat, though?
Relationships are about love between two unique human beings.
Women hold the cards when they are young, men when they are older. What is so hard to understand? ( generally speaking)
I for one am sick of all the “self-help” people telling women they have to change to please men. Why? Why do we have to put up with dishonesty, not calling, game playing and cheating and then be “fun and easy going” (i.e., ignore/forgive their bad behavior.). Smart women have trouble dating because we see through – and won’t put up with – a man’s lies and bad behavior. We call them on it and it makes men uncomfortable when they get caught in their lies. Also, being smart women ourselves, we’re not that enamoured or impressed with their accomplishments because we’re equally accomplished. When you think about it, with the creation of sperm in the laboratories, test tube babies and electric jar openers – men will be obsolete in a few years anyway – just keep them around for the sex (well, we don’t really need them for that either……) and go out with your fabulous girlfriends!
I’m recently divorced and in my 40s never having children. Yes, I am with Patti that we are at a point in our lives where we have gained wisdom and enough confidence in ourselves that we are done playing to men’s deception, cheating and lies. We women are the instigators of most of the divorces described in comments above because we don’t want to stay in a marriage that we thought was great, full of love, great everything even the sex and to wake up one day to find that the husband lies and cheats. It is sad the the feminist movement has turned the role of men from being our champion warriors to stubborn children who wont grow up. It’s even more sad for us women who have grown up and are very attractive, loving, fun, and want that non nagging easy relationship and now only have the choice of settling 1. For a man 15 + years her age or 2. No LTR ever and being alone for the rest of her life. Boy, we Gen X women seem to be out of luck.
51 percent of Men and 49 percent of Women have admitted to cheating. This isn’t a Male phenomenon it’s a Human Phenomenon.
I find it interesting how you speak of “…men’s deception, cheating and lies.” Women are guilty as well. Women will tell a man she’s independent and successful, but expect him to pay for dinner. She’ll spend hours in front of a mirror attempting to make herself look younger, sexier or more attractive. She’ll tell a man she loves him until he is no longer useful to her purposes. The feminist movement didn’t turn men into stubborn children. It simply woke men up to the fact that most women view a man as a warm body useful only to fill a role until they’re no longer needed, at which point they can be discarded, (after she takes the kids, the house, the family dog, his retirement and a substantial portion of his future earnings.) Time for a reality check. Men are sick of being used. I’d rather stay single than ever subject myself to a toxic, entitled, “independent” woman of any age. It has literally taken years for me to rebuild my own financial security and emotional “availability” sufficiently post-divorce to even consider dating again. Fortunately, there are still some women my age who don’t act like spoiled children. Oh, and by the way I was married twice. Both times she was the one who cheated. Next you’ll tell me it was my fault because I didn’t show enough affection…? Every toxic woman I have the misfortune to go out on a date with takes me one step closer to eternal bachelorhood. I don’t know, maybe that’s why so many of you ladies are having a hard time finding a “good” man? Could it be because when a man reaches his forties he gains enough wisdom to stop being a sucker? Honestly, I don’t know your personal life history. Maybe you were used too. But being used in a relationship is not reserved for the ladies. It cuts both ways, trust me. And thanks to the feminist movement, women now have the ability to out earn a man if sufficiently ambitious, while still retaining the “entitlement” to his financial support even post-breakup or post-divorce. The potential rewards of marriage for men are dwindling sharply while the risks are increasing exponentially.
Steve, I believe that you should seriously consider what kind of women you have choosen from the milions of availible single women. You are probably attracted to these bad women. There are many trully nice women out there who would not be able to do so much harm because of their conscience.
Everyone has to change when entering relationships. Why? It’s called reality and maturity. When you become a spouse and a parent you have to change. Too many women seem to think that a husband and children are mere additions to their own lives instead of accepting the reality that marriage and children are about creating new lives. If you are as smart as you claim to be, you would know that. And women don’t lie? Sure. That’s why men are refusing to marry – they caught women in their lies and bad behavior. Who wants a woman who has slept her way through most of the town and refuses to change for a personal relationship? What kind of wife and mother would she make? Will she refuse to change for her children too? Smart men are not impressed with the self-delusion, self-entitlement and other personality disorders that too many women possess.
And by the way with egg donors, paid surrogate mothers and eventually, artificial wombs and the creation of eggs, women will be obsolete too. And more men realize that they don’t need women for sex either. Porn, toys and dolls are fine for many men. So go out with your girlfriends and talk about how you don’t need men while your girlfriends talk about you behind your back!
Susan, you’re a very angry man, calm down….
Antisusan, you post a hostile screen name (e.g., Antisusan) and then tell me that I am angry and need to calm down? How long have you been seething at me? If you are this angry at the comments I post, I suggest you seek help. No sane person should be this angry at comments posted on a blog.
You are so right. I always tell my friends it’s better to break your own heart and walk away then stay and let them do it daily. I read that’s somewhere and it stuck. It’s really not that hard. You cross my boundaries, manipulate, and disrespect me? Beat it.
Patti you are right on the money. Believe me, I understand the differences in the sexes- men are visual, driven by their animalistic urges and trillions of sperm, yada, yada, yada. Hey, as a very well-educated woman who is 41 and mighty proud of it, and extensively well-read I too can come up with any statistic, fact, anecdote, etc to challenge someone such as Verbosity (I know it scares ya, hon). And, according to all the self-help gurus a true man desires a woman with confidence, intelligence, money of her own and experience. And, again these same gurus (such as Evan-sorry bud) state that you must trust your instincts, not be a doormat, not to settle for less than your worth; yet, by the same token this same woman should discard all that advice if she is over 40 because she is too thoughtful, not light (uh, do you mean I have a brain) and unwilling to compromise on her core values. Maybe, it’s because she does not have to because she has the wherewithall, knowledge, self-acceptance and insight not to accept anything less than what she feels she deserves. Isn’t this what the dating gurus “harp” to us single women? So the question remains if this is what a true man needs then why would he want someone “simple”? Are men really this base? Are they so low on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs??? And, why is no one mentioning that contrary to Verbosity’s viewpoint, many men over 40 do NOT look more “distinguished.” Unless he’s Sean Connery. In fact, the most classy, elegant women I know are over 40 and look unbelievable. And, thank goodness there are images today of women over 40 who are absolutely beautiful-and here’s the kicker-inside and out. Think Halle Berry, Nicole Kidman, Teri Hatcher and the list goes on. Nothing can substitute for experience, knowledge and a life well lived. I sincerely believe that simple, free and easy are being euphemistically substituted for naive, stupid and passive. And, to which, I am positive no honest good man would desire in his life.
“And, according to all the self-help gurus a true man desires a woman with confidence, intelligence, money of her own and experience.”
Only Women have lists. Men just turn their heads and think “Whoa, who the hell is that.”
I’m pretty sure you don’t speak for your entire gender , many of whom would feel insulted that you have reduced them to shallow creatures who only need a woman to turn their head. I hate to break it to you but women want a man to turn their head just as much. It’s called attraction and chemistry is the basis for everything INITIALLY. But we are talking about dating, and meaningful relationships, and there has to be something beyond looks for it to last.
And I am pretty sure you don’t speak for your entire gender since you clearly hate men but still expect them to fulfill your desires. I hate to break it to you but real men don’t want some bitter, self-entitled, frustrated women. It’s called love, compassion and nurturing. And you will never find it with that attitude.
Only Women have lists. Men just turn their heads and think “Whoa, who the hell is that.”
While swimming along within this deep estrogen ocean full of myopic and solipsistic female commentators, a nice bit of comic relief (and the funniest comment here today).
Yes, all men know about ” The List.” I saw an ad on an online dating site and I swear to you this one woman had a list of 53 qualities and traits she wanted in a man. I wrote her and said you do realize with a list like that you are going to die alone. She wrote back and asked if that would scare a guy off? I said no, it won’t scare a guy off. It will scare all of them off.
So when a woman over 40 has never married, it’s because she refuses to compromise on her core values. But when a man over 40 has never married, he is immature?
It appears that too many women are low on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Who wants a person who is nothing more than a bundle of needs? People want someone who is self-actualized or at the top of the hierarchy. I sincerely believe that complicated, restrictive and difficult are being displayed as maturity and experience when they clearly are not. If you are difficult, it’s because you are not happy with your experience and the way you lived your life and you want to take out your misery on others.
And women don’t go after men over 40 because they are distinguished – they go after them because they are rich. They claim that men who go for younger women are shallow but refuse to accept that women who go after older men are shallow gold-diggers.
Won’t accept less that what you feel you deserve? Okay, but what do you feel you deserve? The best man? Well, maybe you are less than what he feels he deserves. You see? You don’t consider the other side. That’s why so many women fail at relationships.
I don’t know about the other two, but Halle Berry is batshit crazy. So not beautiful on the inside.
Whew…..
Well Melina, why not pull the feminist card.
As a 40 something year old woman, raised in an era of equal opportunity and strong women as a role model, I have supported two husbands at the sucessful peak of their careers only to be divorced and replaced with younger women so the men could shoulder the glory as their own. Both – now addicts of one sort or another and less successful.
Still, I maintained hope and belief in my intellect, well kept my body, and hoped to share a good life with a good man.
I have concluded, that the opinionated data found on the internet and consumer psychology supports the “BackLash Theory” . The one thing which was overlooked by the men behind the theory is the backlash on the backlash.
Now, women have harnessed their sexual power and demand careers – as the corporate ladder is replaced by golden poles at gentlemen clubs – $4,000 a week can be garnished from their new found power.
Young girls go out with old guys because they buy “bling bling”, or clothing, etc. Cheaper than the marriage contract of splitting your pension 50/50 – sooner or later – the women will wise up and start to teach their offspring.
I have my own personal spin on this. To those older women out there who understand the old double standard game. Recognize the bottom line is this. You can hook up for a one night stand and get sex. Look on Craigslist. You can also spend lot of money (did you know that on average a woman spends $65,000 coloring her hair over her lifetime?) trying to stay young and beautiful. But – as you trade in the tight abs for a steel mind – you recognize the joke has been played on you.
My real bottom line is this. For what? A bunch of fat old men who are basically pedaphiles? Who wish to bolster their flaccid egos with imagery and spend hard earned moments for a 5 minute finale?
I have lost respect for the majority of men out there. Fortunately for me, this frees a great deal of my time and energy for myself. I can’t really see spending time finding “one of the few good guys left”. I also know, if I want a hot sexual tryst – I can find it. In fact, the sex trade industry flaunts the new fad in Kenya – hot young studs for older women. Frankly, I don’t think that two wrongs make a right. The backlash on the backlash is that sex has been irretrievably damaged an taken out of the equation of love. Women are deemed assets with short term shelve lives. Youth has a high trading value. As a society we have become whorish.
Shallow men are a turn-off. So – I’m judgmental. Old Fat Men chasing young girls are juvenille. Men in big cars imply big disappointment.
I spoke today to a 48 year old who was telling me about his disappointment in a 28 year old he was dating. He ended it when she demanded his credit card and joint signatures. LOL –
Bottom line. Take a long hard look at what’s paid off. Intelligent Women in their 40’s see the light. Men can’t get over on them.
All of the subliminal and overt manipulation of consumer advertisements (propaganda) has screwed up a very basic element of life that makes it healthy and loving for both men and women.
Too bad for all the old fat loser men who are chasing young girls. You are too foolish to see your game of power has you defined as loser – right along with the older women you seek to disempower.
This gal has found new joys and if I want hot sex – I know where to find it. So old guys – keep your power & hope your pretty little theives will take care of you when you are old and grey.
Maybe that is the femist card. If so – proud to carry it.
Your “feminist card” is clear to see without you declaring it, the shaming tactics you employ are all that’s required.
Simply put it should be readily aparent to all with unfettered eyes that, women enjoy greater attention levels prior to the age of 30>35, then men enjoy their day in the sun (with increased levels of attention.)
Wrong. Hot young men still get much more attention than old fat guys with a wallet. She might use you for your money but she’s going to go f*ck the young virile pool guy.
Wrong. Fat guys with wallets get more young women. When you have money, it’s easier to get f*cked. That’s why men shouldn’t marry because the wife will just use her for his money. So the old, fat guys should just use the young women for their beauty.
Congratulations on being single and enjoying it.
Congratulations to you as well.
“As a 40 something year old woman, raised in an era of equal opportunity and strong women as a role model, I have supported two husbands at the sucessful peak of their careers only to be divorced and replaced with younger women so the men could shoulder the glory as their own. Both — now addicts of one sort or another and less successful.”
Well, if that’s true, now you kind of know what men have been going through for years – except they have had it worse. Men have been supporting women who divorce them, take the kids and the money, and then raise the kids to become unsuccessful and even criminals. Study after study show that single mothers are more likely to raise children who grow up to become criminals and addicts. If that is the feminist card – you should burn it.
…ladies….I am sorry men have’nt turned out to be what you expected……..
HAHA. Funniest post today.
Reading reading the above comments certainly fascinates. Evan’s right in that both sexes are to blame. Rationalizing the superiority of your position and/or refusing to see another’s point of view is precisely heart of Evan’s point. That said, I feel I must share some observations.
Melina, in everyday life, people use statistics and measures in order to make decisions. No one claims the conclusions are ‘scientific.’ However the issue is whether the conclusions are reasonable based upon the available information. You offer no contradictory information to challenge the reasonableness of the assertion (that men are cautious about entering into a serious relationship after divorce or LTR), just an ad hominem attack on me with no basis in fact. I provided the statistical cites. As an attorney, you should know this is not persuasive argument to a court.
What I find amusing and disheartening about Melina’s post (and similar ones), is a complete disregard for my point that “many older men, likely having gone through a divorce (and by proxy, a split of a long term relationship) they likly did not initiate, are understandably reluctant to get into another relationship.” Is it really so hard to understand or more importantly, to feel empathy for this point? I would submit such understanding is vital to communication, and therefore, vital to a successful, mature relationship. The absence of such understanding in these posts is telling.
What I also find fascinating is that several posters seem to think that Evan is lying when he says they want ‘simple.’ He wrote an intelligent explanation regarding what he meant by it, specifically taking care to mean it did not include ‘brainless chimps.’ I would submit that ignoring this point does nothing further to enhance understanding between the sexes, and is quite disrespectful.
Also, my impression of the ad hominem personal attacks on me for stating an admittedly politically incorrect perspective (based in fact) is that there are an awful lot of angry women out there, for there is no reason to personally attack someone for stating a contrary opinion. I can only guess that those posters who have engaged in such ad hominem attacks are angry I have contradicted or indirectly challenged their paradigm of the male-female interaction. I would further submit that expending such anger in hardening one’s defenses proves counter-productive to establishing healthy relationships with the opposite sex.
Hunter said it so well above….