Why Certain Men Will Never Do Well With Women — And What You Can Learn From Them

359 Shares

I’ve got a great story that I want to share with you today.

Even though I bill myself as a dating coach for “smart, strong, successful women”, I still maintain a few male clients.

I enjoy working with guys because, when they’re motivated, they’re hardworking and highly coachable. Plus, the men who gravitate towards me are usually “nice guys” who just need a little bit of an edge to succeed wildly with women.

In other words, most of my men are the one you should be dating in real life — the kind that are open to learning and growth and are willing to spend thousands of dollars to learn how to better connect with women.

The guy who called me today is completely different — and I had such an interesting phone call with him that I wanted to share it with you.

“James” tells me that he’s 30 years old, living in Seattle, working in IT. He sounds like a bright guy. A little angry, perhaps, but I’m used to getting clients who aren’t too happy with the fact that they’re reaching out to a dating coach.

James tells me that after focusing on his career for most of his 20’s, he’s been dating intently for the past year.

And it’s been TERRIBLE.

There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

It seems that whenever he goes out with women, they’re all so SHALLOW.

They never want to TAKE THE TIME to get to know him as a human being.

They’re all looking for magical CHEMISTRY and trying to figure out within 5 minutes whether he’s their SOULMATE.

The women he wants IGNORE him online, DON’T RETURN his calls after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT man.

As a result, James HATES dating.

Now, between you and me, it doesn’t take a dating coach to diagnose what ails James. There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

Still, I sympathized with James on the phone. After all, this IS his dating experience. It’s real, not imagined. And it’s normal to feel frustration when you can’t solve a problem.

I asked James what he thought that I could do for him. He mumbled something about helping him meet women who were different than the women he’s been dating.

I couldn’t hold back any longer.

“I hate to tell you, my friend, but the problem isn’t with all the women in Seattle. And dating coaching isn’t telling you where the “quality” women hang out. After 12 weeks of coaching with me, you know who’s going to be the same? Women in Seattle. As such, the ONLY thing we can do is change how YOU’RE approaching dating. Does that make sense?”

James paused for a second, gritted his teeth, and said, “I don’t want to change very much. The problem isn’t with me — it’s with THEM. WOMEN are the problem. I’m asking you to help me find better ones. Are you telling me you can’t do that?”

“What I’m telling you, James, is that you’re the common denominator in your life. And, logically, since I can’t change Seattle, or women, or Match.com, or anything else, the greatest shift is going to come in how you approach women, how you understand women, how you flirt with women, how you connect with women. But it’s about YOU learning, and YOU changing. That’s what yields the best, most long-lasting results.”

I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

James and I aren’t going to be working together. And that’s fine by me. I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

And the not-so-subtle reason I shared this story with you is to ask you to reflect on whether you have anything in common with James.

Do you think dating is TERRIBLE?

Are you frustrated that men don’t take the time to get to know you?

Do you get bent out of shape when men IGNORE you online, DON’T FOLLOW UP after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT woman?

Do you think that, if only MEN changed, you’d be in a happy relationship by now?

If so, I hate to tell you, YOU are the one who needs to adjust. Just like James.

You’re not “wrong” that men could improve in 100 different ways. You’re mistaken in thinking that men are going to improve. Your job isn’t to CHANGE men.

It’s to become the kind of woman who UNDERSTANDS men, ATTRACTS men, KEEPS men happy, and CHOOSES good men. This is the key to a successful relationship.

And no, it’s no different than how James needs to learn to attract, understand, and connect with women in order to keep them happy. Until he does, all he’s going to do is complain about YOU, and how unfair you are to him.

In reading my blog, subscribing to my newsletter and joining one of my coaching programs, you have a chance to learn something that will change your life.

The question isn’t whether this information can make a difference.

The question is whether you are going to be like James and continue to blame the opposite sex for everything.

Join our conversation (445 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 21
    Saint Stephen

    @Nicole (#21)
    James is not an old man. He’s a young guy with bright prospects. And who says he should go for a starving girl from a third world country? Russia is a developed country. Europe and Asia are also fast developing continents. In such countries you can still find educated women with  prestigious  careers.  The only difference is that such women don’t need much chemistry to consider a relationship and they don’t have a long requirement list that a man needs to score very good in ticking all off.  

    1. 21.1
      Al

      What you are really saying is that, by going overseas, you think you can find a woman who meets your heightened expectation of attractiveness but who will ignore the fact that you do not meet that same requirement yourself.

      1. 21.1.1
        JennLee

        Or maybe what he is really saying is that he is just outside the top 20%, and he has an easier time finding a woman who is his equal who doesn’t feel she is settling because she didn’t get one of the top 20%, especially when she is also not in the top 20%?   Did you forget the OKCupid statistics where women placed 80% of the men in the below average category?

  2. 22
    Nicole

    @Saint Stephen, nowhere in my comment did I mention the original poster, and considering that you aren’t from this culture,   and don’t understand a lot of things nearly as well as you think, so I’m going to leave things there and not try to argue with someone who understands nothing about where I’m coming from.

    Perhaps work on making sure you’ve properly understood what you are reading before commenting.   I know that it’s not always easy to capture the essence of what people are saying when you are doing it in a second language.

    I’ve been to Russia(and India too for that matter).   It’s not third world but it’s not “first world” either, for a variety of reasons that are really off topic for this thread.

  3. 23
    Ruby

    St Stephen

    Apparently you haven’t heard of Russian bride scams, where men are duped into sending money to poor Russian women, on the pretense that they want to travel to America to meet them, or need the money to pay for their internet connection, or for an ailing relative, etc. Sometimes the women are looking for a green card, and dump the guy after they get it. The women involved are not educated, nor do they have prestigious careers. I’ve heard a number of men on Match.com complain about being contacted this way.

    If a 30 year old with half-way decent looks and a decent job is meeting only women who are “terrible”. something is wrong with his judgement. He’s not screening properly, he’s not choosing women who really like him, or he is turning the women he meets off in some way.  

  4. 24
    Ricci

    @Saint Stephen (#23)
    But why should anyone force themselves to keep dating someone they’re not physically attracted to and have little chemistry with? Is it in hopes that it will come later? Why not just be friends instead then?  And hey, if an  attraction  manages to form later down the road, then that’s great.  Why force it, or act like  actually  being into the other person and feeling like you vibe well with them doesn’t matter for a relationship. Wouldn’t it make you feel bad knowing the woman you’re in a relationship with isn’t feeling you?  
    Also, would you be in a relationship a women you didn’t really have much chemistry with?

  5. 25
    Callie

    I’m an Eastern European-American woman who gets hit on all the time by guys with Slavic fetishists – who are often deeply disappointed to find out that I’m American and not looking to be anybody’s fast track bride.

    @ St Stephen – Frankly, they don’t care about chemistry and that long compatability checklist because they care about your wallet and your American citizenship. If you like that better than being judged by your biceps or your ability to make conversation, fine, but don’t pretend it’s somehow superior to American women’s standards.  

  6. 26
    Goldie

    @ Ruby #25, yes, this happened to a friend of mine who had this obsession with Russian bride sites. I kept telling him that “Veronica”, that was emailing him, was probably some dude running a scam business out of his apartment, but he wouldn’t listen. Then one day, Veronica writes to him saying that she wants to come visit, and her aunt, who lives in the US, is paying for her plane tickets. There is only one problem – because Veronica’s aunt is not an American citizen, she is not allowed to wire money to Russia. So, Veronica continues, can you send me $3000 and my aunt or I will pay you back as soon as I get here?
      
    I told my friend that it took me six years to get my citizenship, and that, during those six years, I was able to send money to whomever I pleased, including my friends and relatives in Russia. He was so shocked and angry, he actually sent Veronica an email saying that he’s on to her/him/it. Hey, I’d tried to warn him all along…

  7. 27
    Ruby

    Goldie #28

    I’m sure “Veronica” seemed really nice, and was very pretty too. Good thing you were able to warn him!

  8. 28
    miskwa

    Evan:
    There are a number of reasons why “James” does not get a reply from womyn on-line. First, has he actually read their profiles and compared what he wants to what they want? This is a biggie; we get lots of contacts from guys that are in no way compatable with ourselves re. core values, family desires, type of relationship they want, our interests, etc. this is why so many of us get frustrated and give up. the dating sites also try and “match” you up w/ folks far, far from what you are looking for and often those that are 1000+ miles away (look at a map dudes). I am surprized by how many contacts I get from smokers, overweight guys (I am an ultrarunner), the politically conservative, guys into ski resort culture and/or motorsports, and those “recruiting” for a mommy for their kids from the last marriage.  We get so many of these completely inappropriate “matches” that there is no way one can reply to them all (I get about a dozen to two dozen a day).  Among other things, my profiles are very clear re. smoking, downhill ski culture, motorsports (I had a guy contact me from my mountain town that I had actually kicked off of my land because he was tearing it up w/ a !@## motorbike) that I am  an environmentalist and  Socialist and proud of it, I am  waay too old to  do the family thing, I am a very active person that believes  that folks need to take responsibility for their  health.  “James” needs to read the profiles first.

    1. 28.1
      cyp

      can you define overweight? Because it is not the same as in women. That is because men usually have higher bone density and more muscle mass. Also the toracic cavity is usually much bigger. The “athletic” man of today in my opinion is a skinny sickly person. A man can seem overweight and also be able to run great distances or do a lot of effort demanding work. Also please define ultrarunner (never heard the word before).

  9. 29
    Saint Stephen

    @Nicole (#24)
    I know you never made mention of OP. I responded to your post because it related to my earlier set of comment.
    You said i misunderstood your comment (which i did not), secondly you quickly alluded English been a second language as the cause. I’ll only remind you that virtually every commentator (including Evan) in this blog have been accused of misreading/misunderstanding peoples comments.
    And by the way, you ought to know that i didn’t need to come from a culture to understand much about it. The world over (including those who had never been here) knows much about the American culture- given it’s stand in the World. Lol

    @Ruby (#25)
    What you said is true. but anyone who is serious and have what they call brains will definitely know how to weed out the Scammers from the serious minded ones. Though i never had Russia in mind (since they aren’t an English speaking country. And far from what you said many third world countries women aren’t starving or green card crazy the way folks like making them appear. I’ve traveled around, and what i see when i travel to Asian countries is the reverse case of American and European men migrating to settle with their Asian Wives. Women stepping up in education and work isn’t an American thing, is a global  phenomenon. Infact  a woman is currently the prime minister of Thailand, Denmark and if you go places in Africa you see women becoming Vice presidents, governors and senators. Truth is, most women in third world counties are more comfortable than you folks think they are. They might even be more comfortable than many American women… oh i digress.

  10. 30
    Saint Stephen

    EVAN SAID
    It seems that whenever he goes out with women, they’re all so SHALLOW.



    They never want to TAKE THE TIME to get to know him as a human being.                                                                                                                                             
    They’re all looking for magical CHEMISTRY and trying to figure out within 5 minutes whether he’s their SOULMATE.
                                                                                                                                                  
    Talking about relationships, We all know that women are responsible for 90% of first date which doesn’t translate to another.   Is definitely odd if a woman is struggling to get into a relationship, not for a man. A guy who does everything right but  couldn’t  produce enough chemistry may likely not even get a second date. Average men struggle very hard in having relationship, the way strong successful women do. From the way I see it, a woman who complains about relationship must have dismissed many men. Which of course means there are plenty of single average men like James.     There is nothing wrong with an average guy like James who is finding it difficult to have a relationship. Rather it would be odd if he was a strong successful guy but still having the same problem.
      

    1. 30.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I think it’s strange, Saint Stephen, that you’re taking the time to defend James, when James is a perfect example of what NOT to be like.

      1. 30.1.1
        m

        If you look at how similar their POVs appear, based on their writings here … I for one don’t think it’s strange at all.

        JMHO, of course.

      2. 30.1.2
        Jack

        I feel as though the reason certain people are defending ‘James’ is that some can read the article and see James being told ‘being yourself isn’t good, change yourself for shallow people who don’t like who you are’ and then followed by a couple paragraphs explaining why James and people like James are aweful.

        That will cause people, weather or not they can see themselves in James, to defend him, because you verbally beat him, and people (strike that, men) like him.

        Most people know someone like James, a friend, a neighbor, a cousin, etc.

      3. 30.1.3
        kpak76

        Hi Evan,

        You’re really missing a HUGE point with James. Most women I’ve met are exactly as James described and I live an hour from him. You of all people know women don’t gravitate towards guys like James. The only attention I ever get from places like Match or Plenty of fish are overweight women whom I would never date, and even those are rare in between. What you should be doing is telling women to stop looking for that perfect handsome rich dude because chances are they will never find him. You should be telling women that they need to lower some of their standards because this day and age has created a huge group of women who all think they deserve the handsome young multi-millionaire. While they will never tell you this, you know by their action that is what they are seeking.

        If you really want to help people connect, help both parties realize that there is no such thing as a perfect connection, and that real love takes hard work. Finding someone to do this with should not be as hard as it is, and it’s definitely not the males who put up the roadblock. I’m not saying woman have to settle for the fat disgusting slobs who have no jobs, but the cute mechanic, or the handsome rail yard worker are perfectly acceptable matches.

        1. anAmericanWoman

          Hmmmmm … I’ve dated fat men, skinny men, latino men, black men, white men, retired men, well to do men, poor men, young men …. I’ve dated around to figure out this stuff.   I’ve had four marriage proposals in 5 years.     I give respect, I give time, I pay my share – dutch always, I am considerate, I am loyal/faithful (I will only date one man at a time and in that time I will evaluate if the relationship has potential), I’m honest, I’m on time, I listen, I listen, I listen and I watch actions to see if what comes out of the man’s mouth match his words … If I can’t trust your words then I can’t trust you (your actions show you core values and if they match your words), without trust and honesty there is nothing.   We are the least honest with ourself and that can translate into a lot of hot air seeping from our face.

          What I have learned is this …. we all really are not what we profess and think our self to be.   If you truly want to know how you are performing … Ask the question, am I   turning people away?   Other people are the mirror, look to how they are responding to YOU.   It is pretty simple.

          I have walked away from four marriage proposals.  I am just an average 52 year old woman that stays fit.     Am I shallow?   NO … as a woman I am myself, I am not your trophy nor your pleasure toy.   If you don’t attempt to understand me and my wants and my desires, if you only understand your wants and  your desires  (as in selfish people)… it will never work as I will stand my ground and work against you in an attempt to get my wants and needs satisfied   … it maybe fun in the beginning when the passion is high and the  sparks are flying but it will grow cold and old fast.   So … that is my yard stick … does he get me, does he care for more than himself, does he see all of ME.   I have worked a lifetime to understand and respect men.   I have read books after books after books and the conclusion is pretty much this … if he is selfish, if he only gets himself … it isn’t going to work and it doesn’t take very long to figure this out, sometimes it is as quick as one date … run, run, run as fast as you can from such a person whether it be a woman or a man.

          I work at getting men.   I work at getting the man I am dating.   He is not my cash cow, nor a trophy, nor my free ride.   I work at understanding what makes him tick and his core values and if he is truly honest with himself (if he isn’t he has no work to do and it is as good as it is going to get … we all have work to do … we all have actions and attitudes that need refining).   And, I will not settle for less than what I have to offer … thus four marriage proposals that I have walked away from.     Your mirror is how other people are responding to you, if you are like me and most people, you have some work to do.   Some people have a lot of work to do.

           

        2. Future cat lady

          Your lumping all us women into wanting “perfect handsome rich dudes” is hateful and incorrect to the extreme. Them you say we should “lower our standards” (because you think we only want handsome rich dudes). You said you won’t date overweight women. I’m one of those women you won’t date. No doubt there are shallow women who only want handsome. Plenty of gold diggers want rich. A lot of us don’t care what physical package a man comes wrapped in though and we support ourselves and don’t want or need a man’s income, but we’re not pretty or normal weight (much less slender). It is men like you who won’t give my type (unattractive and overweight) a consideration. We are the flip side equivalent of “not rich and not handsome” but unlike you shallow men, we would date men I’m that category while as you   and your kind would NOT give unattractive overweight women the time of day. You tell women to “lower their standards” yet you and your type wouldn’t lower your standards in kind. Even though you’re off base about what women are looking for, it’s very hypocritical for you to charge women with being on the get and say they should lower their standards, when men aren’t willing to do the same.

      4. 30.1.4
        kpak76

        Evan look around the net, see what men are saying about women nowadays. This observation isn’t just from 2 guys in the Seattle area. It’s across the country.

      5. 30.1.5
        kpak76

        I think its strange that you dont realize that most men ARE like James. They are not feminist like you.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          No, the men YOU know are like James. The men I know are comfortable around women, secure around women, and love women. That’s why they’re happily married instead of part of a “movement” of angry guys who feel emasculated by society. If you are a nice guy with balls, you’re going to do very well with women. If you are a nice guy with no balls, you go around complaining that women don’t appreciate you, and take your balls back by venting on the internet. Try being a better man instead of blaming women for your lack of success. By the way, that’s EXACTLY what I tell women who complain about men.

        2. kpak76

          Lol again with the assumptions. You make it hard to take anything you say seriously. Feminism taught you well i see.

          Statistics say that your “happily married” friend will have a 60% divorce rate (and the main reason that number isn’t higher is because our grandparents generation are still around. You know the last generation to actually believe family is important. From those divorces 80% of them are initiated by the woman. 90% wilk end up wirh the men losing custosy of their kids. And about that same percentage where men will end up losing half their stufg AND have to pay child support. Do the reseach, google makes it easy now.

          Again, i lost my anger when i realized i should have ZERO expectations from women. And whi is ro blame that there are so few men out there with balls? Feminist, how many times have you seen masculinity shamed by feminazis? Its all over the world now. Do you want me to get in a debate with you on what this is doing to the world?

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          Kpak – leave the facts to me.

          You only WANT to think that 60% of marriages end in divorce because YOU are so bad at relationships. In fact, the divorce rate is DECLINING.

          https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/marriage/the-divorce-rate-in-the-united-states-is-declining/

          Now, of course, marriage is declining too because guys like you opt out of the system, which is fine for any relationship oriented woman who wants a man who treats her well.

          But please don’t throw around false figures to make a specious argument. In fact, if you’re over 30 and college educated, your marriage has an 80% chance of survival.

          You can go on and on about divorce statistics, but that misses the point.

          People who read this blog want to learn to make smarter relationship choices. The goal isn’t to get married. The goal is to be happily married. And if that’s not your goal, I have no idea why you’d be reading this blog.

          And while “feminazis” (while not a term I’d ever use, because, you know, the whole Jewish thing?) are not my cup of tea, FEMINIST is a good word in that it advocates for true equality. And as a libertarian (am I right), you believe in equal right for everybody. So you should have no trouble with equal opportunity for women. You’re just standing up for masculinity. Okay. I’m standing up, too. But what does that entail? The right to rape? The right to insult women who are overweight? The right to fuck and not be courteous afterwards? The right to spend two years with someone when you have no intention of getting married but you know that what she wants? Being a man doesn’t give you the right to do whatever you want, no more than being a woman gives her the right to do whatever she wants. I’m all about fairness and civility. But MGOTWs and “feminazis” can keep on blaming each other without looking in the mirror – and then, when called on it, deny it outright. “I don’t hate women!” “I don’t hate men!” Look at your posts. You’re a misogynist parading as a realist. Leave realism to me and go back to your forum where you can rant about women to guys who believe the worst – and will never have the best.

        4. kpak76

          How can I leave the facts to you when you’re not posting accurate facts? The truth is no one knows if the divorce rate is declining. There is evidence on both arguments, some say its declining, even more say its rising.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/03/27/divorce-is-actually-on-the-rise-and-its-the-baby-boomers-fault/

          Now it seems the baby boomers are at the fun. And no I am not throwing out false figures. That’s great and all for people who attend school, but what about those who don’t? They have under a 50% chance survival rate for marriage. Should we just forget those people out there exist? I date people in both those ranges, college educated women and non college educated women. Why should I discriminate based on education?

          The people who reads your blog seem to be people who are already prone to agree with what you are saying. You’re catering to a select group of people who probably believe heavily in feminist ideals. There is another group of people out there called conservatives who will look at some of the ideas your throwing out and disagree. You are right about some stuff, but I couldn’t disagree more with you on others.

          Feminazi is an actual word in Merrian-Websters dictionary. If the Jewish people are offended by that word, I would tell them to grow a thicker skin. It has nothing to do with them anways.

          Feminism is no longer about equality, it’s about domination of the matriarchy and death to the patriarchy. The feminist movement you speak of was the first wave. Today meninism is what feminism was in the 30’s and 40’s. They are actually about equal rights among the sexes. They are preaching for fair divorce proceedings. They are fighting to retract some of the ignorant rape laws we have in this country. It’s destructive to peoples lives when you tag them with sex offender labels because they urinate in public. The act is wrong, but not worthy of destroying someones life over it. No one should believe that 1 in 4 college women will get sexually assaulted because that is just not true. If it were, I can’t see how any sane and reasonable adult would ever send their daughters to college.

          Women received the equality they were seeking once they got the national right to vote and with the pass of the equal rights amendment. The cries now from feminist camps is nothing more than lies and warped use of statistics to get a country to kill off all signs of manhood in this country. You see it everywhere. In popular culture, at your workplace, at school. It’s sickening that we drug up little boys today because they show male traits. Every job I’ve had I had to tip toe around the workplace so I wouldn’t offend someone. On TV or in the popular art, you don’t see any semblance of a strong father figure. Where are todays Ward Cleavers, and Mike Bradys? They are replaced with guys like Kevin James, and Homer Simpson, bumbling idiots. If you don’t think feminism has nothing to do with this, you are sadly blinded by the myth they are selling.

  11. 31
    Saint Stephen

    @Ricci (#26)
    I understand your points and i concur that you do not need to force anyone to date who they aren’t attracted to. But i believe If this women will accept to be just friends like you said, many of them will wind up feeling attracted to him. The problem is American women need instant chemistry and any guy who isn’t producing it on a first date, will get Nothing. No second date, No relationship. And by this i’ll infer many men are loosing out.

    1. 31.1
      SparklingEmerald

      St Stephen:   How many women have YOU not felt initial attraction to, but grew attracted to over time ?
      http://www.yourtango.com/experts/julie-ferman/what-if-im-just-not-attracted-guy
      Men AND women reject each other due to lack of “chemistry” but this woman interviewed men and women, and found out, more often than not, women will give a guy they aren’t initially attracted to another chance than men will, if there’s no initial attraction.  
      Personally, I have tried the “give a guy a chance” route, and all it has ever done is create an uncomfortable situation, and/or an accusation that I’ve “lead him on”.   Just one more damned if you, damned if you don’t.   Women are wrong for not giving a guy a second chance and they are wrong for leading a guy on.
      I guess it’s HUMAN nature, to feel that it’s perfectly OK when YOU are the one doing the   rejecting, but it’s a huge injustice when someone rejects YOU.
      Also, men might think that they haven’t rejected women, but every woman who has ever tried to subtly flirt with you, by catching your eye, smiling at you from across the room, or coming up and starting a conversation etc. that you just didn’t notice, well that’s a form of rejection.   I’m not saying that you must walk into a room and approach every woman, but every woman who was hoping you would flirt back, approach, and you didn’t, well that IS a form of rejection, even though you aren’t aware of it.
      I find it hard to believe that there is ANY man on the planet who hasn’t actively rejected a woman by not calling for a second or third date, has NEVER been the one to end a relationship etc.   But if that’s the case, then surely, there has been the girl you have passively rejected, simply by not noticing her, when she was trying to flirt with you or trying to get your attention.     Not saying it’s wrong, in fact the opposite, no one should try to FORCE themselves to be attracted to someone, and I even think that insisting that someone give someone a second or third chance, is in essence, an attempt to shame them into dating someone they simply aren’t attracted to.
      As someone else said, dating and relationships are difficult enough when there IS initial attraction.   Why would anyone try to navigate all that withOUT attraction ?
        

  12. 32
    Saint Stephen

    @Evan Marc Katz
    You are right. I’ll work very hard to be successful, so i wouldn’t have to be like James, or suffer what he’s going through.
    Thanks!!
      

  13. 33
    Katarina Phang

    Stephen, you’ve been the advocate of chemistry second/third/fourth, and everything else first.   Sorry, hon, I’m not sure how many relationships you’ve been with (but I’m pretty sure you have been in none from the idealized things you said), unless you are in an arranged marriage culture, that just won’t work.

    Welcome to the real world, where being in a relationship is a choice and romantic feelings reign supreme.

    It’s not about right or wrong, it’s just the way it is in our world here (and I’m sure in most places all over the world).  

    No chemistry,no incentive for relationship.

    Why would I want to be in relationship with any guy whom I’m not attracted to physically?   It’s hard enough when there is mutual chemistry.   And no, you won’t just be attracted to someone over time just because he/she’s a wonderful person.   It’s either there or it’s not   You can’t force this and it’s beyond your power whom you’re attracted to.   If that was a matter of choice, nobody would be single and lonely.

  14. 34
    Ruby

    St Stephen

    Nowhere do I see evidence that James is unsuccessful in his career, or that he is unattractive. If he works in IT, he could be making very good money. He’s 30. He doesn’t have to be a corporate CEO at this point (or any).

    I’ve also never seen any evidence that a desire for at least some chemistry is an exclusively American trait. Since when are women 90% responsible for there being a second date?  Both  parties are deciding that simultaneously on a date. In fact, I’d say that women are more likely to give someone a second chance than men are, more likely to wonder if there’s something about the guy they’ve missed. Men are very visual. If a man isn’t attracted to a woman, he is very unlikely to ask her out again.  

  15. 35
    Goldie

    @ #35, From reading the post, sounds to me like James is a negative guy who thinks everything is always someone else’s fault, never his own. It is possible to be successful in your work, and still be all these things in your personal life. Just based on the fact that James can afford a dating coach like EMK (which I can only in my dreams), he sounds pretty successful to me.

  16. 36
    Nicole

    @Katarina, it has to be very hard to understand the way that we do things when viewing them from the outside.   Different cultures clearly have different expectations when it comes to dating and marriage, and I think it is always hard when someone who isn’t from the U.S. attempts to interpret what we do and why we do it.
    I definitely have known many, many people from cultures where dating is rare and marriage is frequently arranged, and I can’t claim to understand how they deal with the attraction factor.   
    But I also think that in those countries, people who can get away with it find chemistry with someone else, since the downside to the absence of choosing a mate seems to be that it frequently goes hand in hand with divorce being extremely looked down upon.
    So I agree with you, but it’s also true that it can be hard to explain it to someone who wasn’t raised in this culture, especially to someone who has decided to jump on the bandwagon that the problem is that Western women are superficial, trampy,   and materialistic.     

  17. 37
    Heather

    Evan, it’s funny that you bring this topic up.

    I once dated a man who complained about dating, he was so nice and they all were flaky, too busy, too this, too that.

    What it really boiled down to in his case, was that he didn’t want to truly commit to anyone, and probably still doesn’t, because his Mom wears the pants and has to approve his relationships, and he’s now 40 years old!   And from what I recently heard in the grapevine, he is currently still alone.

    Usually when I hear a guy or a girl go it’s all on them, I think uh oh, this is somebody who’s got issues.   When every date is bad, or everyone of that gender is a problem, then it’s usually that person who’s got the problem.   I used to think that way too, but then I grew up and realized I needed to make some changes.

    And it’s making dating a lot easier.   I just know more about what to expect (or not) from men, and it makes things so much less dramatic, stressful, etc.

    Thanks for this thought, it was great!

  18. 38
    Gretta

    I’m a Seattle girl and I know a guy named James who is exactly like this and I thought to myself for a split second “maybe Evan just WROTE that he was changing the names but in fact didn’t.”
    I am thrilled to discover that both were made up. Seattle chicks are the COOLEST. I think that anyone generalizing HUGE groups of people is denying their own shortcomings. It’s the same across the board. If you keep having to quit jobs or keep getting fired because there’s something wrong with every manager and how every manager does business. . .there’s actually something wrong with you.
    If you keep trying the same approach and it never works, change your approach bro.  

    1. 38.1
      Ted

      Where are they? The only ones I meet are stuck up and selfish. Well, except the ones that aren’t single.

      I’m being serious.   I’ve lost count of how many Seattle women I’ve dated and they’re all shallow and cold.   Doesn’t matter how the date goes,   they never want a second date.

      At some point is delusional to suggest that men don’t have a point when the women treat men so badly.

      1. 38.1.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        What are you doing on a blog that is designed to help women understand men? Illustrating what they should avoid in a partner? This victim mentality blame game doesn’t look good on women; not sure why you’d think they’d find it appealing on you.

        1. Ted

          I don’t think lying to women is helpful. A lot of them genuinely don’t know how harmful their actions are. Even when the actions seem harmless enough and aren’t done with malice.

          If they want a good guy then not taking our feelings seriously and actively punishing the desired behavior while rewarding bad behavior is probably not helpful. And yet that happens do often that it’s a cliche.

          And considering that there isn’t any real accountability for them until they wake up one day and realize that those guys they ignored and mistreated are no longer available just plain sucks.

          It’s a kindness for somebody to be willing to let them know about the consequences rather than be shouted down.

          It’s so sad how many would rather pretend like I’m a monster rather than acknowledge the truth that if you want there to be good guys available for dating, you have to be willing to date us or at least not waste or time so we can find somebody that does. Nobody has infinite time and only billionaires have near infinite money

          Blaming James for what could well be the women he’s been dating does everybody a disservice. There’s just too many other great guys being ignored and mistreated for it to be something wrong with me.

          I’m literally the guy that many women claim to want. I have no shortage of women willing to waste my time for a cheap ego boost. I’m not also going to take the blame for being treated like a sex object as well.

        2. Callie

          Ted no you’re not. You’re not the guy that women say they want. You THINK you are, but that doesn’t make it so. I know from good guys. I’m dating a good guy. Evan’s a good guy for crying out loud. You . . . you insult all women, the concept of feminism, blame everyone else for your problems, and think it’s okay to have a bad attitude because it’s not your fault. None of that is what women are looking for. I don’t know how you define “good”. I assume it’s that you don’t beat women or psychologically manipulate them. But you do dislike women. And you don’t seem to respect them at all. And you think they owe you something which is particularly icky. So for a lot of women that’s really not what they are defining as “good”.

        3. Ted

          @Callie, you say that on what basis precisely?

          You assume that I’m a horrible human being because I have the nerve to notice that women have been treating me badly and be upset by it.

          Considering the rather sexist interpretations that you and anicewoman have been putting on my posts, I’m not sure what I could say that would make my point better than you two.

          And BTW, there are a ton of women that would take exception to your assertion about feminism representing them. Feminism represents  a subset of middle and upper class women. There’s a ton of women that disagree with them. And some of the most interesting anti-feminists are women. Not to mention that all of the earliest men’s rights organizations were started by women that were concerned for men’s well-being.

          This whole article was a massive missed opportunity. EMK could have used this as a teachable moment about why women should be nice to nice guys or how frustrated guys can do something about it that’s more constructive.

          And yet, he took the usual approach that you see in the media to shame James. Granted, he did use a pseudonym and change enough details that we don’t know who he is, but he did shame him none the less.

          Ultimately, karma does exist and expecting that men will put up with this sort of abuse and neglect purely because women are entitled to better treatment is ridiculous.

          I didn’t choose to be sexually abused by my female classmates when I was a kid. That was something they chose to do and I find it to be highly problematic that you just assume that I’m a monster that doesn’t know how to treat women for the mere crime of calling them out for abusing men.

          I put the messages here with the hope that at least one woman here would realize that being mean to nice guys is bad for everybody.

          But, considering how little value society places on men, I shouldn’t have been surprised.

          There’s still a chance for you folks to find somebody, but if you can’t learn to treat men with respect and value for our sake, perhaps self-interest will do it. No guy in his right mind is going to settle for a woman that views men as less than human.

  19. 39
    Julie

    To #2: Smash, I personally think that men in Seattle are not all that great either. 🙂
    So far I have never met a Seattle man who would be smart, funny, holding a job, good-looking (at least, not obviously disproportional and taller than 5″5), single and interested in me at the same time.
    I really don`t know what the heck is going on with Seattle. Could it be that all the good Seattle men are paralyzed and bed-ridden after getting into some horrible skiing and biking accidents? Go figure.

    1. 39.1
      Ted

      Or perhaps sick of being treated like mr. Rightnow rather than a potential Mr. Right.

      There’s plenty of good guys, but we get cranky and bitter from all the game playing.

  20. 40
    Joe

    Maybe they’re only 5’5″ because the coffee stunts  their growth.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *