Why Don’t Men Like Smart, Strong, Successful Women?

Smart woman with arms crossed
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Hi, Evan.

I’m 41, happy with my rounded self, smart, direct, and articulate.

I’ve been told that my lack of dates is due to:

1) Men don’t like smart, direct women, and

2) I’m centered, which sends the message that I don’t need anyone.

Are men really that insecure? I’m certainly not going to be less than I am just for someone else’s insecurities.

Tell me honestly, Evan – are there any good men out there who appreciate a woman who knows herself?

Michelle

Hi, Evan:

I don’t know what is going on and why I’m lacking luck in finding Mr. Right. I am educated, refined, and a self made millionaire by age 34. I am good looking. Many men, women, elderly, and children of all ages have told me so. People also told me that I am one of nicest and sweetest people they have ever met. Even though I am 36, most of the people I meet would think that I am only 26. Unfortunately, I have been through all kinds of online dates in the last two and a half years. CEOs, doctors, lawyers, hedge fund mangers, business owners, professional athletes, actors, etc… When I am not interested in them, they work for the relationship day and night. When I am committed to them and act nice and devoted, they start to look elsewhere.   Anyway, in short, I need some serious help and hope to hear back from you soon.   Thank you.

Sincerely,

Catherine

Great letters. Important question. But first I want to start off with a hypothetical email from a man.

Dear Evan,

I’m what you’d call a “nice guy.” I make a good living, I’m pretty attractive, and I treat women well. In fact, all of my female friends comment on what a great catch I am. But then I see those same women dating jerks. Yet they would never consider going out with me! So what do you think? Am I cursed to be alone just because I know how to be kind to women? Isn’t being nice a good quality? What’s wrong with women these days? Please let me know.

Jason

It’s not BECAUSE a guy is “nice” that he’s not attracting women.

Men reading this might empathize with Jason. Women reading this may feel bad for him, yet also want to him to know that it’s not BECAUSE he’s nice that he’s not attracting women. It’s because he’s doesn’t have masculine energy. It’s because he constantly seeks the approval of others. It’s because he’s not sexually aggressive. It’s because he sacrifices his personal power to be conciliatory. These are common attributes of nice guys, yet nice guys think that women don’t like nice guys BECAUSE they’re nice.

Not true. Women want nice guys — nice guys with opinions who stand up for themselves and know how to take control.

Smart women are very much like nice guys.

“I’m intelligent, I’m direct, I’m successful, yet I can’t seem to find a quality guy who appreciates me.”

Men like smart women. I do. My male coaching clients do as well. So how is it that all these successful men are not connecting with all these successful women?…

Because there’s much more going on than merely a meeting of the minds.

What never occurs to some women is that:

They’re being evaluated on far more than their most “impressive” traits.

These traits sometimes come with a significant downside that is painful to acknowledge.

Take me, for example. I’m a reasonably bright guy. I make a fair living. I can write a decent joke. These are my good traits. But right behind my good traits are a series of bad traits. Anyone reading this blog can see that:

…Despite her impressive credentials — attractive, successful, intelligent — she might not be giving men what THEY WANT.

The flip side of being bright is being opinionated.

The flip side of being analytical is being difficult.

The flip side of being funny is being sarcastic.

The flip side of having moral clarity is being arrogant.

The flip side of being entrepreneurial is being a workaholic.

The flip side of being charismatic is being self-centered.

Again, not EVERY person who is bright is opinionated, and not EVERY person who is funny is sarcastic. But there’s enough anecdotal evidence to suggest a strong correlation. And I’m just talking about MYSELF here. And if my good qualities come with bad qualities, have you considered that yours might as well?

So when I hear a woman talk about how “direct” she is, the first thing I think is: “She’s tactless.” I wrote about this in an article for Match.com entitled “Are You Honest… Or Overboard?” Self-proclaimed “direct” people often tell their dates what they think about them even if the date didn’t ask. They often try to change partners who have no desire to be changed. When the partner pulls away because he doesn’t want to be with someone so critical, the “direct” person concludes that he couldn’t appreciate her “honesty.”

If this makes you feel personally indicted, welcome to the club. I’m a “direct” person as well. I write things that are, to say the least, provocative…and yet I always get surprised when I receive angry emails from readers. Hey, I’m just being honest over here! What are you getting so upset about? 😉

See, there’s a price to pay for “being ourselves.” And if you’re going to express your opinion, you can’t be surprised if other people disagree with you. And if you’re trying to win each argument, you can’t be too shocked if he wants a woman who can be a little more acquiescent.

I don’t know Catherine and Michelle. But I do know that they are not alone. Maureen Dowd, the Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the New York Times, wrote an entire book about this, called “Are Men Necessary?”. One of her main observations is that if an amazing woman like her could be single, there must be something wrong with men. What she doesn’t acknowledge is that despite her impressive credentials — attractive, successful, intelligent — she might not be giving men what THEY WANT.

When a man goes out with a woman, he’s not as concerned with whether she’s articulate and on track to make partner at the law firm. That’s what women want in men and they assume it’s of equal importance to them. It’s generally not. Men DO value intelligence, but they also want from their girlfriend what they CAN’T get from their business associates. Warmth, affection, nurturing, thoughtfulness. If he finds himself constantly hearing all the things he needs to change, he may just determine that he wants a bright woman who is less challenging. Not a Stepford Wife. Not a bimbo. Not a maid. Just someone who makes his life EASIER and more pleasant.

Listen, I’ve spent my life chasing after women I’ve intellectually admired. Invariably, all of them had major issues with me. They’re not wrong for seeing things I could change. But a huge reason I’m with my wife is because she spends her time loving and supporting me, not challenging me on everything from movie tickets, to travel plans, to wake up times. She’s easy, in the best sense of the word.

Men want from their girlfriend what they CAN’T get from their business associates: warmth, affection, nurturing…

This is a real dilemma. You’re undoubtedly a great catch. You can teach us a thing or two. You are a go-getter and worthy of everyone’s respect. But if that go-getter side ends up emasculating your man, or makes him feel insignificant, or second-guessed, he’s not really getting what he wants out of a partner. Men want to feel masculine. We want to feel needed. And with a generation of women who pose questions like “Are Men Necessary?” it’s pretty difficult for us to enjoy our role as men. This doesn’t mean you should play dumb, or be weak and needy, no more than the nice guy should start acting like a jackass. It might mean, however, turning off some of the things that make you “successful” at work. This is a bitter pill to swallow, perhaps even a double standard. Still, it doesn’t change the fact that “hard-driving, opinionated, and meticulous” are not on most men’s lists of ideal feminine traits.

As someone who considers himself smart and direct, take it from me — there’s nothing wrong with these qualities. But if it also coincides with being difficult, dating might be a long, tough road for you.

It certainly was for me.

P.S. Want better results in your love life? For a deeper understanding of what qualities you should be looking for in a man, I invite you to check out “Why He Disappeared — the Smart, Strong, Successful Woman’s Guide to Understanding Men and Keeping the Right One Hooked Forever”.

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Comments:

  1. 821
    Blaze653

    In addition, I find the “separate your work and home persona” to be very bad advice, just in general.  If anything, most people’s romantic relationships would be far more functional if (with the exception of sex) they behaved as they do at work.

    At work, do you roll your eyes, snort derisively, or make a snarky comment when someone says something dumb?  No.  Depending on who it is, you either tactfully point out what they are overlooking, or you say nothing.

    When a particular task is your responsibility, do you simply get it done, or do you put it off, screw around, and otherwise be passive aggressive about it?

    Most modern workplaces are team oriented, and everyone is expected to pull their weight for the team.  You do that for your “work team”, why is it such a revolutionary idea for some peoplee, to do that for the “home team”, too?

    Do you throw tantrums, scream, cuss, and so on at work?  If you wouldn’t treat your coworkers with such disrespect, why would you treat your partner with such disrespect?

    At work, you don’t bore everyone to tears by endlessly rehashing some minor, trifling personal issue.  So, why do you think it’s ok to bore your partner to tears, by doing this at home?

    At work, you probably don’t go around offering your coworkers unsolicited personal advice on their eating habits, fashion sense, church attendance/lack thereof, hairstyle, and so on.  So, why do so many do it to their partner, and think that’s ok?

    Unless your job duties include quality control, the auditing of financial reports, or proofreading, you don’t point out the minor errors or mistakes of others at work.  It’s unproductive and only creates drama. Most people know this, so why do so many instantly forget this truth when dealing with their partner?

    When you’re at work and having a bad day, you probably make a concerted effort to keep your negativity to yourself, rather than vomiting it all over clients and coworkers.  Why not do that at home, too?

    Live-in “coworker” + sex = ideal relationship, imo.  Perfect.

    1. 821.1
      Its7am

      @Blaze653 I agree and disagree. I think a lot of your examples, paragraph 2, 3, and 5 sound like middle school couples; any adult exhibiting those behaviors regularly are too immature for a relationship and should work on themselves first.

      Paragraph 4 I strongly agree with, that is how handle my relationships, like a team. If we’re at the point we’re considering “forever” then this required. It’s “us”. Everything, I don’t mind domestics, I can still work and handle a home. I’ll need his help but we even it out. Yes, he doesn’t wash dishes but he mows the lawn. I do all the laundry but he gets on all the ladders and changes our light bulbs. It evens out eventually just a happy hard working pair. With all it’s bumps and bickering in between because disagreements are inevitable.

      6, 7, 8 I also don’t agree with, I actually treat my partner as a special person; besides sex there is only things I share with him. He’s my vault where I can be entirely vulnerable. we grow and build together so if i tell him of my woes I’d like his advise, i look up to him too; he is my support like i am his.

      If something he did hurt me, I will tell him. If I get upset I try to step away to rationalize and calm down and come back later; rarely is ANYONE effective at communicating when upset. I want him to “bore” me with minor issues, what are they because if they are bothering you and are small we will get those fuckers out of our lives.

      It makes me feel special for him to share his inner turmoils with me; he won’t do it with anyone else and expose himself so vulnerably. I like communicating, I like knowing why he had a bad day, I might be able to help.

      If he regularly is late and forgets his coffee and that’s what makes him have a bad day then if he tells me maybe when I wake up I can make his coffee and then he just takes it. Problem solved!

      I’d like us to build each other, if we mesh well then man can we do some serious awesome things working effectively together

  2. 822
    Evensong

    Question to Evan – is this thread really ten years old? Any idea whatever happened to the original poster who started this Epic Poem? 1300 and counting – do you actually read them all? Oddly enough it reminds me of one of those yeast starters for bread that go on forever….

    1. 822.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Yep. I don’t keep dates on posts because most of the subjects are not dated like pop culture references but pretty timeless. And no, I don’t read all the comments.

  3. 823
    Its7am

    ** Edited and updated**

    Hello,

    Today is my first day reading this site, it was originally 3am but now it’s actually 5am. I’m a 27 year old woman, I make $55k annually and I live in Miami. I have my own new shiny sports car, a climbing IT career within a worldwide franchise and a couple thousand in my “emergency nest” savings account that I am trying to build up. I’m not overtly successful like some of the older women here are; yet. But I know for my age, gender and class I am ahead of most. I have many “masculine” hobbies like RC cars/planes, video games, computers, and cars. I love cars, I race, drift and mechanically work on my own car. I’m also extremely handy in the house, I’ve fixed toilets, hinges, changed thermostats, built IKEA furniture; etc!

    I didn’t have a bad childhood, or any overly traumatizing events; we were poor (but I never even knew) and my amazing parents worked so hard for me to have the best opportunity I could; and thats actually why I worked so hard and diligently to be a successful career woman. In 2013 I was barely making $18k a year, now in 2019 I am at $55k and that makes me extremely proud. Not because of material numbers to brag about, but I can meaningfully provide for my future family! I remember hearing my parents argue when they didn’t have enough money to pay the bills and we would regularly loose power and water.

    I worked hard for my two parents who struggled to move to the USA, they legally left their families and war riddled country to a new one that they didn’t even speak the language of so their future children could have all the opportunities America has. Now both of my parents speak fluent English, both have always had long term jobs, both worked hard and obtained their US citizenships! My mother went to school and graduated college at 43. My father holds multiple certifications for the aviation mechanics he does. He also supported my mother weekdays and all weekends nonstop for years for her to go to school and complete her degree so he could still support his three daughters.

    I worked hard so they could see those sacrifices fruit. What took my parents 40+ years to acquire I was able to acquire in half the time because of their hard work. I want them to see that, I want to pay them back as much as I can. I will take care of them when they are old, I need them to know this. And although I don’t need so much money to do that, it really fucking helps.

    I am independent, I have all the qualities and damaging qualities mentioned in the article. I am not oblivious to them. Many times when in difficult times, I stood up to the plate and was the “responsible” one. The only one able to keep her composure and pretend to be strong for the family; even if I was sobbing inside. I still sob inside a lot when I have to. I had to do it because my family deserved my strength at those times. I knew I was the only capable one besides my father. I was always Daddy’s little tomboy anyway. I used my intelligence, strength and independence to be nurturing in a different kind of way, by taking over for them when they were weak; to compensate for my team so to speak; I didn’t want to do it but I chose to. They never asked; but they always said thank you when I did.

    When my younger sister almost committed suicide; my father could not pretend to be strong all the time; but he had to be for my mother and i knew this. So I stood up and handled the whole ordeal; start to finish; from riding alone in the ambulance with her to the hospital and giving them all our information to transporting her to the rehabilitation facility and handling them there so he could be strong for my mother and sister who were falling apart. She needed him and could not see him be weak; he is her anchor. My strength and independence allowed me to take some burden from my father so he would not loose his composure and my mother would always see her strong husband; despite them both almost loosing a child.

    Sometimes you have to be the strong one even if you don’t want to. And sometimes you have to go belly up even if you don’t want to. I don’t have life figured out; people look to me like I do; because I sound convincing I guess. I have a plan of how I would like it to go and that’s where I’m headed, but it isn’t guaranteed. We all know this, right?

    My life isn’t sad; I didn’t want the position but knew I could fill it and now relish it. Because I went through what I did; I feel more free. My hobbies and interests vary so much I can enjoy a massive amount of things CONFIDENTLY! Cars, jewelry, electronics, arts and crafts, musicals, shooting guns! Anything and everything. I can be happy when I am alone going 130 in my car or I can be happy sitting silently with my partner playing with his hair and my legs on his lap. I am grateful for my career woman attributes!

    I want my STRONG partner to see ALL of my strengths, intelligence and independence. I want my partner to know that if he EVER needs help or is EVER weakened. I will help him. I will make sure no one sees our weaknesses. Because he is strong and I will protect his image and him in those times because he is NOT alone. He has me. That is the strength I hope my partner perceives. He is a strong man and so should his partner be. His other half; when he is off and recharging. I am active and at full battery; ready to take on the world. Because me and him are a team; it’s corny but we both put on “suits” of armor to go outside our doorstep and deal with the world. He can be alpha man out there and I can be alpha woman. But when we take off those “suits”, I am just me and he’s just him.

    No one really has to stop being themselves; no one has to overhaul themselves either. Just remember it’s you two against the world, not you against each other. Yin and yang compliment each other. Sun and moon. Day and night.

    I love being independent. I am glad that I grew to be the woman I am. I like knowing I have a real noticeable presence in my workplace. I should; I worked really hard for it. I should be noticed for my intelligence; I earned it by learning and researching on my own time for plenty of topics out of pure enjoyment! I enjoy the recognition and praise. And all of this only adds to my ability to make my AND my partners lives better! We just have more things to offer ourselves.

    Yes, I’m a bit of a know it all, I do maybe correct people and offer advise or opinions I shouldn’t. I tend to do disagree and rather get my way but I’m aware and adjusting to it. I’m working on it, it’s hard to let your guards down when theyve been on your whole life. But I balance it too. I like teasing my partner. I like asking my partner to open a jar for me or get something off the top shelf sometimes. Just to see him puff up and be the VIP of the moment. Just like he does for me, who cares if he calls me for help in the kitchen or his tie. I called him in just for a jar or his height. Different situations same precedence.

    Naturally for me I’m submissive when intimate, I like pleasing him and feeling how strong and in control men can be. That’s why I like men! They’re bigger, stronger, hairier, lil more assertive; those qualities attract me. They arouse me and challenge me! I see protection for my family and a good night! How exciting and reassuring to have an equal! I want to pinch his ears and slap his butt until he wrestles to the couch and fall off it with him on me laughing and annoyed at me. Power play is exciting, I enjoy the differences between our genders. We get along better when we compliment those differences; I think so at least.

    I enjoy being competitive in life, challenging others and helping them. I like paying for meals for him sometimes; I’m his backup. It’s sweet to see your partner puff up happy when you do something unexpected like paying for the lunch. Even the strongest and proudest of men like to be hugged and told they will be taken care of. Even if it’s coming from a very smart and successful woman. They just want you to be there; his partner.

    I would have assumed most men would be reassured by the fact that their partner can also hold up their own. The burden of weight isn’t all on them 100% of the time, if disaster strikes and anything happens to his or our health, wealth, or anything. I want him to be calmed by the fact that our family (whether it’s just me and him or we have children) have NOTHING to be worried about, because we have it covered; both of us.
    I don’t understand

    I don’t have relationship “troubles”, I left both my long term relationships on good terms. One wanted to move to the other side of the world and the other i no longer loved the same way. Still in touch with both men today. I am single right now but by choice as I handle major lifestyle changes. I guess I just wanted to write out a point of view some might not have seen or considered; I didn’t want to be strong but I had to be successful and enjoyed what I became.

    This turned out I made this long so I hope everyone and anyone who reads this considers taking off their “suit” that the world sees, and just be vulnerable unguarded you with your partner.

  4. 824
    Fsg

    My God, I think people overthink this… some men like strong woman (the whole package with both the good and bad traits) and other don’t. I honestly think it’s not that deep.

    My dad married a strong woman and he is very successful himself. They ve been married almost 40 years now.
    His mother my grandma was the strong woman type too so guess that’s the energy he is used too and comfortable with.

    My brother married … (you guessed it) a strong woman. Not exactly a surprise. And they love it.
    There is a match to most people. Just keep looking until you find yours.

  5. 825
    Juan

    Strong independent women really think they’re all that, but aren’t at all which they really wouldn’t make a good wife to begin with anyway.

  6. 826
    Miranda

    I compliment Evan for being willing to admit that he just wanted someone…easy. When you strip it down, that’s really it. A lot of people use their spouses as a comfort zone rather than a growth zone.

    I also love that ‘easy’ is a gender neutral word. Both men and women can be easy.

    What’s a shame is that so many men want, or think they want, an easy spouse because of societal conditioning. Most parents have the Easy Mom and the Power Dad. If there were more couples where the role was flipped, or both people were Power (think Power Couple), we would see a different trend.

    More women than men want the Power Couple experience, They have little need for a comfort zone and want to challenge their spouse and be challenged back. I think you do them a disservice when you say, just become an Easy woman like all these happily married girls. That won’t make them happy.

    It’s not wrong for them to want a Power Couple. It’s just that the numbers aren’t there. It’s the same with female dancers who want to marry male dancers to share their love of dance. But the few straight male dancers out there care less about marrying another dancer. It’s just a mismatch in stats.

    Instead of telling Powet women to become Easy women, a better approach might be…how can you appreciate Easy men (Nice Guys)? We have two groups here that are alone. If they learned to appreciate each other, they could have a relationship without changing their own core identity.

    I’m a Power oriented woman who married a middle of the road guy. He’s the Nice Guy that Nice Girls don’t find attractive. Did I originally want a Power guy? Sure. I spent a long time trying to be that Easy girl so I could nab the guy. But my true self always eventually came out. Pretending is miserable. Then I met a nice guy who liked my brashness and my drive. I had to overcome some conditioning, but I came to love him. And our relationship has lasted far longer than other Power women I see who stifle themselves for the guy.

    It’s what people used to call settling, but I call it reframing. Reframing your expectations of your spouse is far more sustainable than pretending to be someone you’re not.

    1. 826.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I agree and this is the central message of Love U: you don’t have to change yourself; you have to change your choice of men.

    2. 826.2
      Rustylh

      “What’s a shame is that so many men want, or think they want, an easy spouse because of societal conditioning. Most parents have the Easy Mom and the Power Dad. If there were more couples where the role was flipped, or both people were Power (think Power Couple), we would see a different trend.”

      This is NOT why we want easy.

      Most of the post I didn’t have a problem with, for the most part, but this is just flat out wrong. But I do understand why it is wrong. Both men and women can get it wrong when they project the way they see the world, onto the opposite gender. Simple fact is, science has proven that men and women’s minds work differently.

      I once read an article that described how during research, they monitored which areas of the brain showed activity, and how much activity, while experiencing things, and performing tasks. It was different for men and women, while experiencing the same things.

      What you call challenging your spouse, we call nagging, or prodding at best. Maybe there is an evolutionary reason that men prefer easy. After all, it was men who regularly went out into the dangerous wilds, and did battle with giant woolly mammoths, sabertooth tigers, terror birds, and the men from other villages. I suspect that when they made it back home, they just wanted kick back on their pre-historic L-Z-Boys, and be served woolymammoth sammiches. You don’t undo millions of years of evolution in just a decade or two, just because men created the technology that allowed both men and women to escape their traditional roles.

      Most men I know are now doing the MGTOW thing. Why? Most say they are tired of every woman they try to date, being so afraid of being the 1950s housewife, that they overcompensate in the other direction. They find it both unattractive, and tiring at the same time. Most say that the hardest part was accepting this. They would ignore it at first, then believe that with the right woman, they could put up with it, but then realized they just didn’t want it.

      Even young men are now doing this. It’s showing up on college campuses. Many men now talk openly about detesting loose women. They don’t want to marry a woman when both of them are in their 30s or 40s, but she spent her 20s in an out of bed with many many men. They talk about how that article, “I’m ready for a nice guy now,” detests them. In a way, this is similar to what you posted. Just a quick search will reveal that men like your man are a dying breed, so you should hang on to what you have.

      Men…even young men, are starting to adopt the way of thinking that Asian men have. In Asia, men don’t want to be a woman’s fallback plan. In China, they have a term for undesirable women. They call them leftovers. Now…don’t get this sideways. They aren’t talking about physically unattractive women as much as they are talking about women who weren’t serious in their youth, about getting married. They don’t want a woman who gave her best years to men out of her league, and now is ready to “settle” for a man in her league. They want a woman when she is youthful, and fun, not when she is no longer youthful and fun. They don’t want a woman who has had her fun and is now ready to settle down. In short, they don’t want the top 20%’s leftovers.

      Young men are now looking at their older counterparts, and seeing how they accepted the “leftoves” and they find that detestable. They want no part of it. This has been going on for a while, and thus marriage is down to a record low.

      Now, you might say, “but what about the men,” referring to hopping into bed without commitment. I believe this is also an evolutionary thing. The mating strategies of men and women are different. Why are women generally hypergamic but men aren’t? Why can you go onto dating sites and see women asking that the man at least have a bachelor’s degree but men do not generally do this? Evolution.

      Well, there is an additional aspect here. A man cannot cuckold a woman. A woman can cuckold a man. A man cannot fool a woman into thinking that a baby he had with another woman, is actually hers. A woman can actually do this to the man.

      I believe that a man will attempt to sleep with a woman early on, and if she allows him to, well that just gave him a chance to get his genes into the next generation. But on another level, I think this is part of a shit-test. He may not even understand it, but he is actually testing her for worthiness. If she hops in the sack too quickly, subconsciously he understands that this makes her more likely to end up pregnant by another man, and he would end up holding the bag.

      I watched an interview with a basketball player who had slept with hundreds of beautiful women. Had dated many of them. But it never lasted. He never felt like any of them were The One. Amazing women all of them, but he just wasn’t feeling it after the sex. And then he met his wife. The first woman that told him, “No.” In his words, she was strong in that she made it clear to him that she would like to get to know him, but that sex was off the table. She would not sleep with a man that was not committed to her. He said that this was the first time he actually got to know a woman. But of course, this was the first time he had to actually get to know a woman. He fell in love with her. In my opinion, it was also because she was the first woman that passed the primordial shit test.

      This is also why when we say easy, we don’t mean easy to get in bed.

    3. 826.3
      Jilted Dream Girl

      This is such a helpful comment. I’m in this space. I’d love an easy man. I’d love to love an easy man, and have that be reciprocated. But I also love to be challenged. I don’t settle for mediocrity for myself, nor would I want a partner who would. I’m not expecting him to run marathons and build orphanages in Belize in his spare time. But if I’m a prize of a woman that makes you so proud, why not try to be the same for me? Take care of yourself, work out, eat well, read, be able to appreciate the arts and clean up nice when we go out. I love it when other women take notice of my man. The competition…excites me. Maybe that’s wrong? I don’t know, but it’s how I feel. I get wanting the security of a partner. But I don’t ever want to be taken for granted. Nor will I ever “let myself go”. Yes, I do lazy weekends and bingewatching and sweatpants around the house and all of that, dishes in the sink, clutter here and there. Normcore Americana. I’m not into high pressure perfection and Instagram moments. But I do enjoy my romantic weekends away, society events (with photo ops), exploring cool new places to go around town, and rock star-caliber sex.

      You want me to be your arm candy for your friends/family/coworkers/exes, but you can’t be bothered to put on a tux or a nice suit and schmooze with me? Fine, I’ll go to the benefit alone. But now you’re upset with me for going out and striking up a convo with a successful business owner, who just happens to be charismatic and handsome, and might collaborate with on a project later? This has been my experience with “easy” men. They’re extremely supportive, until they feel insecure. And if they’re confident in what they’re giving me, why are they insecure?

      I’m kind of a flirt, but I’m not a cheater. When I commit, I go all in. Which is why I don’t do casual or “let’s see where it goes”. If I’m exclusive and public with someone, I see them as husband material. Period. Then they aren’t even compelled to step up for me, but rather give up on me when the time comes to step up. I’m an adult who is coachable and empathetic. Nobody seems to want to take the time. I’m supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt and always assume the best of them, while they can’t even be bothered to say,”Hey. I love you, and I want to build a life with you. But I don’t feel like you want the same. Can we discuss this?” Never. They just tell me they’re not good enough and go marry other women. I’m apparently not worth fighting for.

      This was a lot. I am a lot. Supposedly there is someone out there among the other 7 million who can handle me. Probably not.

      1. 826.3.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Self fulfilling prophecy. You want different results, do something different.

  7. 827
    Amara

    Wow! This is a really interesting thread. It’s brought a lot of clarity to me around where biases and conceptions around relationships, especially by women, come from.

    I’m curious where these resentful attitudes held by women around men/life comes from. Is it a generational issue (eg feminism was at its peak when these women were growing up) or a general resentment that comes with aging in a society where women are bombarded with messages around the value of youth? I honestly think women of any age can be beautiful and attract deep men if they do the inner and outer work and don’t internalize negative beliefs around their value due to age. Yes, younger women offer men a special energy, but older women can actually deepen in their radiance and feminine energy over time, it just requires more intentional action. My mom in her late fifties is a prime example of this 🙂 So is Goldie Hawn!

    I’m in my early/mid twenties and I’ve met many men my age who think they want the female version of themselves. They too have been bombarded with the artifice of contemporary feminism and have to go through those negative dating experiences to realize they want feminine women (similar to Evan’s story). It’s a layer of masks to hide their true masculine essence. Evan, what is your advice around this for me?

    I do agree that some men have misogynistic views towards feminine energy (likely due to toxic experiences, perhaps parents who rejected or belittled the feminine), viewing it as less than masculine energy. These men must be either avoided or ideally encouraged to do inner work that allows them to become aware of this conditioning and develop true understanding and reverence for the feminine.

    How can we as a society develop greater reverence for the feminine, among all genders? And how can we as women pave the way by teaching men, society, and ourselves to revere the feminine? How can we as women feel fully confident in trusting sexual wisdom and powerfully surrendering? I hope for a society that ultimately sees true power in feminine energy, in intentional service and surrender, and in a kind and compassionate heart.

    1. 827.1
      Rustylh

      We could start by stopping the practice of demonizing such men as chauvinistic. Most people have no clue what the “red pill” community is. It’s not monolithic. Just like feminists are not monolithic. But, a large segment of the Red Pill community desire feminine women, and lament the fact that so many women have bought into the myth that to be a man’s equal, they must be just like a man…masculine. The sad thing is that when trying to become just like a man, women will always fall short. It’s only when they go in the opposite direction…increase their feminine energy, that they become the best they can be…and thus become a man’s equal. Men and women are at their best when they are fulfilling their half of the circle. Men and women are meant to be two separate halves of a circle. Not the same half of the circle. Most in the Red Pill community are trying to educate young men that this is the truth…that they will not be happy trying to pursue women who act like men. Ignore the outliers. Every group has them, and they do not represent the majority, no how loudly they speak. To take the Red Pill means to see things as they actually are. It’s believing uncomfortable truths, and a rejection of believing a comfortable, but false narrative. This comes from the movie The Matrix, where the man was told to take the red pill if he was willing to see the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it was, or he could take the blue pill, and nothing would change about his life. He would continue to live the false but comfortable lie.

      In my experience, the majority of people in the Red Pill community are simply looking for the truth. The one single thing they have in common, as far as I can tell, is they universally reject the idea that the way to move forward is for men to act more feminine, and women to act more masculine. In other words, they agree with you.

  8. 828
    Claudia

    I’ve worked around men from all ages and backgrounds for the last 18 years. I here them talk about women all the time. I don’t get involved in the conversations much but I do listen. There is never an easy answer. Some men want young naive women so that they can mold them and control them and always have the upper hand. Some men want smart, independent, assertive women so that they can accomplish certain things together. Others want the sweet, dutiful homemaker who just wants to make their man happy. And some men want the controlling dominating woman that calls the shots all the time. I’ve even heard of some men who want the crazy drama queen who gives them a high and makes them feel somehow alive. It looks to me that different men want different types of women. And it also depends on the stage they are in life. The kind of woman they want could change for them as they go through life experience. I’ll tell you one thing that is a for sure in all men. They want RESPECT above everything else. Regardless of the type of woman you are, if you give your man respect you will be able to keep him. You just have to find the right man for you. The one that appreciates you for who you are and doesn’t want to change anything. And that could take a while. Good luck!

  9. 829
    Nonsense

    I really disagree with this. When a woman presents as beautiful and light, and accomodating (which I have totally done) she is seen as a gold-digger, lazy, and just some dumb hotty not to be taken seriously. But the minute she has her OWN money, and uses her brain and doesn’t rely on a guy for her earnings she’s all of a sudden a Bitch, a bull-dagger, a dyke, too difficult, or too masculine. WTF? This is so ridiculous, men want us women to just be at their whim, beck and call.

    We can’t be too about our looks cause then we are stupid and take stupid selfies and are self-focused.

    But god forbid we have our own career or WORSE our own BUSINESS and we might as well be the devil in the flesh.

    Maybe men should just date other men. Honestly!

  10. 830
    Jill

    You want to know what’s pathetic? Making women do all the work and basically telling them to change themselves and act like a babysitter for a man. Be “easy.” “Nurture” him. Nobody wants to be a fucking mother for an overgrown child. Nor does a woman have to “make him feel masculine.” So you’re telling me it’s my responsibility to make a MAN feel like a man? Why would I want a spineless wimp like that in the first place? It’s up to him to be a man himself. I don’t do all the work for a freeloading weakling like that only to be told that I have to be the passive and subservient one in the end. I’d prefer a partner who can hold his own and keep up with me and respect me for all the hard work I’ve put in to professional and personal development. Never sacrifice who you are for a manbaby. You’re better off alone ladies.

  11. 831
    mike

    Jill,

    I think you missed the whole point of the article. The author was basically saying the skills that got you ahead in your career don’t translate well in a relationship. This is objectively true for BOTH sexes. Here is an example:
    Lawyer:
    A good trait for a lawyer is to never give up an argument. They must do everything they possibly can to win the debate. In a relationship this is toxic as hell for the man or the woman. If one side must always win the other side must always lose. Who wants to be the loser every time?

    Most Men in these types of jobs have learned long ago to compartmentalize their personal lives from their professional one. In their personal lives they are willing to give and take to build a relationship together with their partner. Men have several social norms that help us do this… ie at work I am in charge, but at home she calls the shots. Happy wife makes for a happy life, etc.

    Women would do well to create a new balance in their personal lives as well. Relationships are about building each other up through give and take. Your dominate job status does not entitle you to dominate your personal relationship. When you dominate your personal relationship. A sane partner will understandably run away from you. This is the case for a man or a woman.

  12. 832
    Jilted Dream Girl

    I’m a sales professional who is above average in looks, intelligence, and charisma, which is extremely helpful for my career. The curves in all the right places don’t hurt, either. Most people I meet say they feel like they’ve known me forever after a first impression. I connect with people quickly and easily, and it’s genuine. Because I like people and I’m naturally curious about them. Blah, blah, blah. You get the gist. So tell me why I’m constantly being told by men I’m interested in after one or two dates,”You’re amazing, but I just didn’t feel a connection.” This has to be a lie. Connections and making people feel good is how I earn a living, especially with male clients.

    I’ve tried it both ways. I’ve been told I might be coming off as “too sexy, too confident, and overwhelming”, so I’ll tone it town and try to be more wholesome and girl next door-ish. Then they’re turned off when I don’t respond to their explicit sexual attempts on the first date, and assume I’m not interested. “I didn’t feel a connection.” So I try it the natural way – easy, breezy, confident, cool. Make him laugh, ask him about himself, be fun, flirty, and enjoyable company so he will want to do this again. Don’t talk about college, your travels, your career, or anything that will make him feel like he has to compete with you (because that scares them, too. Once had a guy point out on a first date that I use bigger words than him.) Still,”I really enjoyed spending time with you. I just didn’t feel a connection.” What gives?

    Meanwhile, men I’m not attracted to or interested in remain persistent. THEY feel a “connection” that compels them to keep trying. I’m fun as hell, easy to talk to/get along with, easy on the eyes, and sexually confident. Why in the world aren’t the ones I actually like wanting to snatch this up? How am I only ever attracting men who I’m not interested in? These types are sweet, but can’t keep up with me. I’m like a Porsche 911 to them, and they need Hondas. Everytime I give them a chance, they end up feeling overwhelmed and defeated, and breaking my heart when they walk away. I don’t want to go through that again, so I’m trying to stick to men who feel more like equals and not fan club members. No luck. *shrugs*

    1. 832.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Maybe we should talk.

  13. 833
    Rachel

    As a women though you can’t earn too little otherwise men view you as lazy and cheap for not earning enough to keep up with them. Also men want to be wanted but not needed. A low earner is nearly if not more of a turn off for a man and few people talk about this.

  14. 834
    She calls me Man Dime

    The parable isn’t about smarts or success, it is about ego and higher Self. While we might not name it, we all intuitively can detect nuance of ego and higher Self in others. Ego tends to be unattractive and the Self intoxicating. It isn’t the success of career women men loathe, it is their fear/insecurities, attachment, control, and entitlement they fail to recognize in their shadow of ego that they wield as a weapon. Their infamous ‘independence’ becomes code for lack of vulnerability in how they approach their partner. Most men don’t want to be in a relationship with another overly masculine/independent partner that needs vulnerability ‘encouragement’ like men do being logical and stoic. Often, more feminine women not bringing home their business atmosphere through vulnerability bring out the best in men. But keep telling men the narrative, “I don’t need you, but I want you as a commodity,” and he’ll tell you in his behavior, “I’ll pass, and find someone who NEEDS me as much as I NEED them.” Men don’t want to be with someone who WANTS them now but might not later, like another object with a checked box on the list. Career, check. House, check. Man, check. Kids, check. Hopefully you can recognize this way of seeing the world does not provide inner satisfaction and gratitude because the ego is grasping at the next thing for happiness and NO MAN will satisfy this type of person. It’s called internal/external locus.

    You see, I myself am not perfect but when my girlfriends met me they confided to thinking I may be ‘the one’ because it causes anxiety after so many tries that I seem at first sight to have everything. I know I hit all those check marks down the list and my looks only reflect my parent’s genetics that I have nothing to do with, so they shouldn’t be seen as anything special. But because of that I’m a branded bad boy who actually had no metric for looks and sex appeal growing up. I don’t care for the attention in regards and dislike the presumption that I get all the ladies and am met with insecurity tests; then I will immediately walk. So what if I can does that mean I have to? It takes a small mind to think the worst in someone based on presumption and I worked hard to maintain depth and character as a well rounded individual who wants an amazing relationship. They seem to not know how to handle a weird man that defies societal norms and has what are thought to be incompatible attributes that defy mate/provider boxes, as if the universe played some cosmic joke on them. No, apparently these days a man can’t be an endurance athlete, fix cars and diesel trucks, be educated as a science nerd, fight fires, trained in martial arts, write romantic/erotic poetry, play piano, read copious intellectual books, has multiple outdoor sports, experience with children, taken care of his disabled elders, saved lives, helped less fortunate, and the list goes on-

    that is, why can’t he be wholly self-reliant, self-actualizing, and self-realizing without being met with self-sabotaging suspicion of women who choose to not be vulnerable when he is simultaneously openly vulnerable and powerful? Can he find a rare woman that will equally meet him above ego? Or will the ego continually trigger to reject those seen as unworthy (entitlement) and avoid those of similar status who could cause harm through rejection(fear/insecurity)? Unfortunately, it is not my place and also very taxing to try to discuss the finer points of the shadow, ego, Self, and other psychological, philosophical, and spiritual ideas with every potential mate. Truth is, she has to be ready with the courage, willingness, acceptance, neutrality, and unconditional self-love to receive these things.

    It only took one very toxic and insightful relationship with a woman I loved dearly for who she was only to wake me up and realize what I should look for and avoid. I could accept and love her but even with my overwhelming positive marks and few negatives she couldn’t allow herself to be happy because of the popular societal narrative that closed off her heart and mind. Now I know what to discern in a potential mate and what comes first is to evaluate her ego, then to see if she has the emotional maturity and relationship skills to serve a man and be vulnerable. What I mean by ‘serve’, I likewise am ready and willing to serve the right woman in my own ways. I always have in my very carefully selected relationships; especially in the bedroom (or wherever needs arise 😉 ) where I hear many complaints originate and she comes first there most always. But sex is a spiritual experience to me and unconditional love, Agape, is a central to my shared experiences and life journey; add in some Eros, Ludus, Philia, Pragma. Consequently, my most basic needs are taken care of by myself or simultaneously with hers as I expect her to be an adult and attain her own needs as necessary; though she should be able to ask for help. Then all those other wants will fall in place however makes sense. I can only implore those of you to take a good look within and find how well your ego has hidden itself in your values and priorities and knock that chip of your shoulder.

    My advice to any self-aggrandized ‘independent’, ‘successful’, ‘beautiful’, and any other metric that is used to bolster the ego in women, though I’m sure this can equally apply to some men, reading this is:
    1. Stop thinking you have a type and be willing to try something new or different than what you THINK you know.
    2. Stop thinking of yourself as a competitive product that is marketable according to your looks, career, income, assets, opinions, etc. This reduces you to an object and puts a price on you.
    3. Stop thinking of men as a product on a checklist that you need to obtain. This objectifies men and makes you compare them in terms of mating up in status or settling down. Rather, just find someone that fits you.
    4. Have a clear idea of what you want and state that at the beginning. But don’t bring out your checklist, tear it up and think how you can be better to bring out the best in a partner. Look at him for who he is, not what he can give you as if he is an errand boy.
    5. Don’t play games and be honest with yourself and him. Honesty and integrity allow for true loyalty and direct communication. Only pursue someone who has similar values and let him know you are interested.
    6. This one is extra. The best metric for sex/love life is to look for a man who is thoughtful, creative, and spontaneous with a dash of boyish eager to please. Don’t base it mostly off looks but, additionally, just because a man is good looking doesn’t mean he only has half a brain or is an entitled jerk.

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