DISCOVER HOW SMART, STRONG & SUCCESSFUL WOMEN (THAT'S YOU!) CAN FINALLY Find Your Man
DISCOVER HOW
SMART WOMEN LIKE YOU CAN
FINALLY Find Your Man
Take this short quiz
to discover what you need to do now.
Take this short quiz now
In the last couple of years I’ve met a lot of guys, online and offline. I haven’t found the person yet, but I’ve learned something about men: they have a lot of faith in themselves. And here’s my question: how come guys always, always, always think they are the PERFECT match for you, without any self-awareness? I’m not talking about physical appearance; I’m talking more about this:
– Girl: “I live in a big city, full of people. I would like a boyfriend that lives in the same area, so we can meet whenever we want to.”
– Boy: “I live 400 miles away, but hey, that’s no problem, I’m your perfect match!”
– Girl: “I want to marry through the Protestant Church, it’s very important for me that my future husband agrees so we can raise our kids that way.”
– Boy: “I don’t want to get married, I’m not sure if want to have kids, and I’m definitely against the Protestant Church, but hey, that’s no problem, I’m your perfect match!”
– Girl: “I don’t enjoy going out late. During the winter I prefer to stay at home and I don’t care what’s the coolest bar in town right now.”
– Boy: “I love drinking alcohol, I can’t be in the same bar for more than 90 minutes, and if I stay at home one evening I can’t breathe, but hey, that’s no problem, I’m your perfect match!”
– Girl: “I have a Master’s degree, I can quote French, English and Spanish literature, culture is a huge turn on for me, and intellectual chemistry is as important as physical chemistry for me.”
– Boy: “I stopped studying when I was 18, I can’t remember the last book I read and I can talk to you about every reality show on TV if you need me to, but hey, that’s no problem, I’m your perfect match!”
– Girl: “I’m in my early 30s, and I still believe I can find a guy who has never married before, no kids, so we can build a relationship with no complicated stuff from day 1. I want a simple thing.”
– Boy: “I’m in my 50’s, divorced, one kid your age, no education, no shared background with you – social or cultural, I live far from you, but hey, that’s no problem, I’m your perfect match!”
You, my dear Evan, get the idea, but they don’t. Why do they always think they’re perfect for you? I know it when I’m not someone’s type! If I see that a guy is looking for this nurturing, low maintenance girl in her 20s I don’t lose my time, I’m not that girl. But men don’t, men will always try to convince you not to be “rigid”, when what’s happening here is that he’s not your type, you know it but he doesn’t stop for half a second to think about it.
Is it a biological reason? Social? Sexual? I don’t know, but you are the Love Guru, you must have the answer. And by the way, how do I respond to this kind of guy? I’ve tried it your way (online), and the prize that I get for answering is being insulted most of the time: “It’s amazing how rigid you are”, “You are wrong”, “It fascinates me, looking at your sweet face I would have never thought you could be this mean”, “I know what’s good for you”, “Oh please, don’t give me a lame excuse”.
I would looooove to hear your opinion.
— KC
I looooooved this email and printed it in its entirety for three reasons:
This has nothing to do with you. This is about them.
It’s funny, it’s true, and it makes it look like I’m huge in Europe.
And very much like the reader question about men who text photos of their penis, I don’t think that this is a particularly complicated question with a long, complex answer. So let’s get right down to it.
I agree that the men you’re alluding to are somewhat clueless. I agree that they’re wasting their time and barking up the wrong tree. I agree that it can be a bit frustrating in dealing with them when it’s so obvious to you that they’re not a good fit for your life. But here’s what you’re missing, KC:
This has nothing to do with you.
This is about them.
Contrary to your opinion, these men don’t think that they’re a perfect fit for you.
They may not score high in reading comprehension skills, but they know from your description that they’re not what you’re looking for.
What you don’t understand is that THEY DON’T CARE what you’re looking for!
You know what they care about? What THEY’RE looking for!
And what are they looking for?
An attractive woman your age. That’s about it.
Men do what THEY want. They don’t do what YOU want.
You think they’re reading your profile and concluding that you’re a perfect match. They’re not. They’re reading your profile and writing to you IN SPITE OF what you wrote.
They’re trying to convince you to overlook your own criteria and give them a chance. Not because it’s in your best interests. But because it’s in THEIRS.
Predictably, when you point out that it’s not a good fit, they get defensive and try to convince you that you’re wrong.
It’s not that they actually believe that they’ll convince you.
It’s that they’ve been ignored by everyone else and you’re the first person to write back a rejection letter.
So they double down on their original email — piling on a little bit of guilt and aggression — to let you know that you’re making a huge mistake by passing him up — yes, the same man who is nothing like the man you’re looking to marry.
They’re just venting. It has nothing to do with you.
You can’t change it. You can’t worry about it. But you can make sense of it.
Men do what THEY want. They don’t do what YOU want.
You can spend your whole life getting frustrated or you can observe it dispassionately.
You can spend your whole life getting frustrated or you can observe it dispassionately.
Somewhere, there’s a subpar student trying to get into Harvard.
Somewhere, there’s a barely literate person applying for a copywriter job.
And somewhere, there’s an older, slightly overweight woman who is writing to the George Clooney clone on Match, even though he specified his age range was 27-32.
Does Clooney get upset at these women? Nope. He just smiles and deletes them.
Why don’t you try that on for size and see how it fits, KC?
Candice says
This had to be one of my favourites. I had to laugh! So funny and true.
Fiona says
Very funny and sounds about right. Pleased to read that I am not the only one experiencing this. Irritatingly, the types of men the OP describes seem to be the only men that have been contacting me online over the last year. I can only hope that others are faring better.
helen schirmer says
That is my same sentiment. I have so many men tell me I am really sexually attractive right out of the shoot on seeing my picture only. They tell me what their sexual desires are in regard to me. Do they think they are impressing me or winning me over by saying these things? They tend to not post recent pictures, or even pictures at all. It is pretty dismal. Why do they want to hide their looks? Are they obese, have bad teeth, or other unattractive looks? It sure seems like all the good ones are already taken and their women are hanging on tight to them. Only the desperate and needy ones are left. Maybe they cannot find high value women in real life. They show disrespect for women who are total strangers. They must have not had any good make role models and are so self focused, they think women are non discriminating with men. It is a big waste of time. The potential ones with good personality, health, decent looks, and financial prosperity are reluctant to pursue. I almost think arranged marriages by families would be better. I hate to think I now have to pay to find good men in my area and spend alot of time trying to find out who has potential and who is subpar. When and why did dating change and get so difficult?
Robyn says
So… does “delete” mean completely ignore their messages (don’t even reply/respond at all, even to the first message)?
Or should one be “polite” and send them a single “Sorry I don’t think we’re a match & good luck in your search” message?
There’s a part of me that says that it’s good manners to send the polite “no thanks” message but if that is likely to cause the “agressive re-attempt” reaction as described above, then I’d rather be seen as impolite & simply ignore messages/winks from totally unsuitable men.
Karen says
Hey Robyn,
I believed that, since I don’t like to be ignored, it was best to simply say no thank you and wish them well with their search. And thinking I could stop the onslaught of long distance searchers, I used to have the disclaimer “I’M NOT INTERESTED IN LONG DISTANCE RELATIONSHIPS” written at the top of my profile. I was, and still am, continuously contacted by men who live hundreds and thousands of miles away, INSISTING that we become friends. THEY REALLY DON’T CARE WHAT YOU WANT.
So I’ve always tried to be polite, thanked them for contacting me and wished them luck on their search but it doesn’t matter. Their mission is to convince you to do what they want (I also believe that 90% of the guys who contact me are scammers) and they don’t, for a minute, consider that someone who forces their way into your space isn’t attractive. In my case there has been and continues to be the hard core aggression making me wrong about what I where long distance relationships are concerned (which is my big issue). AND, get this, just recently a “military man” (to be read big fat SCAMMER) wrote that I was a mother fucker, a bitch and an asshole for not wanting to communicate with him.
So … if the specs don’t fit … DO NOT ENGAGE, AT ALL. DELETE. You’re impoliteness is far less inflammatory than theirs will be.
Namaste.
Karin says
I feel if a man has not read in my profile what I am looking for, or has deliberately ignored what I am looking for, it is not rude to just delete his email. If he genuinely fits my criteria but I still don’t see interest, then I will send a polite “no thank you.” I received many out-of-state notes when I clearly said no to that. To me, that warrants no response.
Clare says
This was so funny!
Evan, I loved this one because you illustrated so clearly an important point – Men pursue you because you’re what THEY want, what you want is almost entirely irrelevant. Expecting them to factor that into the equation is almost unrealistic.
I do feel sad for them though; because I’m sure we’d see a lot less of the pain of rejection of some men, some of whom comment here at times, if they paid attention to the signs.
Almita says
I have the same opinion as Robyn (#3). When I first got into online dating, I thought that I should be polite and respond to every man who wrote to me, even if that meant saying, “Thanks for your message. However, I don’t see that we have a lot in common.” Like the OP, I would get aggressive, often insulting messages in return. Finally, I decided that replying would only encourage these men and that no response was the best policy.
ChrysalisGurl says
I talked to my best friend about this phenomena recently. Her experience of straight guys online was basically the same as my experience of tranny chasers online (I’m transgender).
Both groups of men seemed utterly incapable of either reading a profile text or qualifying women on what they actually wanted.
The thought (?) process seems to be “I like your photos. You have the kind of genitalia that I prefer. Lets get married/move in together/have sex/get naughty on video chat [delete as applicable]”
Evan’s concluding advise (delete/block) is definitely the most time effective way of dealing with these clowns.
But just for amusement, I used to engage men in conversation and *force* them to say what they wanted in a partner (serious or casual). It was incredibly difficult to pin them down on anything!
One of the first things that pick up artists learn is to qualify women. It doesn’t matter if the qualifiers are bogus.
Merely by qualifying a woman, he sets himself above the thirsty, desperate pack of horndogs that surround him.
The sad irony is that the very men who appear to have no standards whatsoever will eventually discover what they don’t want once they are involved with someone who doesn’t satisfy them.
Daisy says
Wow!! Your comment is dead on true for me, very well said! I did not know about the effect of “qualifying women” but it’s totally true for me! When I meet a guy online with no standards, I don’t feel as special, and I immediately think he’s desperate and tell him I’m not interested.
It’s scary to know that pick up artists or playboys can abuse this psychological behavior of women! Do only con artists do this or can good men do it subconsciously too when they are genuinely attracted to the woman?
Jane says
Just to balance out the to email a response or not to email a response, I usually do and I have received many responses back thanking me for being thoughtful. I guess it just depends on how uncivil a guy is… sure makes it easy to make them off the list.
As to our presenting problem of the day, I could not concur more. I have found it mostly when a guy really wants to ignore an age difference because he feels young inside…. and thinks he is still “with it.” And he is neither youthful nor with it. Nothing can alter age! I have to face it. I hope I do it more gracefully than they!
Joe says
…or perhaps these men fit KC’s ideal in other ways, and she simply elects to focus on the one thing that doesn’t fit her ideal?
I mean, say she wants a guy who:
1) is white
2) is 6’4″
3) has an athletic build
4) is alpha
5) makes $150k/yr
6) speaks French
7) likes to cook
8) is clean shaven
9) has all his teeth
10) likes romcoms
11) is not bald
12) went to an Ivy.
Suppose a guy who was all those thing messages her, but he happened to graduate from Stanford–would you say he was still close enough to her idea of perfect that he could reasonably claim to be perfect for her?
nathan says
A single, quick polite “no thanks” can be followed up by silence. Especially if the initial e-mail was friendly or inquiring. When I was doing online dating, I almost always responded, even if it was just to say no thank you. And I got plenty of e-mails from women who were poor matches. It’s not just an issue with men.
I’m aware women often face different challenges around this. But I find it interesting how some women seem to feel the need to keep engaging men they have zero interest in, and will probably never meet in person. There’s no rule saying you have to say anything if the guy gets obnoxious, or fails to listen the first time around. In fact, you don’t even have to open the second e-mail, which frankly would save a lot of trouble. Why look at it, if you’ve already said “no thanks.” That’s exactly what delete and ignore are for.
As Evan points out, you have the power to decide how to respond. Those of you with a history of getting into long winded arguments with men you’ve already rejected online are choosing to do so. You can also choose to never respond to anyone who writes you, waiting for that “perfect match” e-mail to land in your box. However, if you choose to do that, then don’t complain about how impersonal and uncaring the whole process is. And don’t complain about how men never respond to your e-mails.
There’s at least a little truth to the idea that what you give, is what you’ll get in return. A little bit of kindness, coupled with the dispassionate observation Evan advocates for, goes a long way.
Lisa says
Think about this though if all these guys message me that have total deal breakers for me and I have to sift through 30 emails a day(true story) from men 25 of which I would never date then you are right I will never find my match because they are clogging my inbox. I am not going to date someone who is 20 years older than me!
Michelle Beth says
The kicker to me is women like the one who posted the question tend to think they are really really special.
No need to over analyze. The simple answer is the men think this woman is poke-able. They couldn’t care less if they are the perfect match for her or not. They just want to poke her.
JustMe says
I think it is cute that they are optimistic. I have to admire them for taking the risk and putting themselves out there.
Julia says
Just don’t respond-men don’t respond to me if they aren’t interested. This is just how it goes on dating sites.
Goldie says
@ Joe #8, no one is that picky. Contrary to popular opinion, most women I know set the bar pretty low and only want a few basic things, and they usually end up being messaged by a guy that is none of those things. I had a guy go off on me (he went so far as typing a slew of insults into Google Translator and translating them into my native language, badly), because I told him I wasn’t interested. Never mind that he was 11 years older than me and five years older than my age cutoff, lived in another state when I looked for someone in a 40 mile radius, and all around gave off a weird vibe. He said I’d led him on, because my profile said I liked geeks, and, wouldn’t you know, he is a geek, so we’re a perfect match!
@ Nathan, I used to look over a man’s profile and then, on a case-by-case basis, decide whether to reply or not. (I didn’t reply to “Hi”, “Hey beautiful”, “How ya doing” and other online-dating equivalents of cold calls, for same reason that I do not talk to telemarketers.) If a person sounded nice enough, normal enough, and sounded like he’d put enough work into his email, I’d send him a quick “thanks, but no thanks”. But, as my above example shows, some guys interpret any reply as a sign of attention. Then they complain the woman had lied to them and led them on. If I sensed any such weirdness in a profile, I chose not to reply at all.
I’ve had men not respond to my emails, as well. It didn’t offend me. It’s business. Nothing personal.
Frimmel says
Men are told since they first get interested in girls to try. “Go talk to her.” “She’s not out of your league.” “Be confident.”
If men didn’t talk to women who were likely to reject them men wouldn’t talk to women at all. Getting dates is a lot like other kinds of selling. The person with the most ‘no’s’ wins. You aren’t going to close many so you’d better be talking to many, many, more than that.
Karl S says
I once wrote to this girl who was studying science.
I told her “Whilst I am not studying any of the sciences myself, I have always had an appreciation for the rigorous application of observation and testing that goes into unlocking the mysteries of our universe.” I then mentioned the layman books of science factoids I’d been reading by authors such as Bill Bryson and Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Her reply was this –
“i find it really strange when people message me on here and say “i dont like science myself….but i’m glad you do this makes us a good match, etcetera”
i’m spending the next 5 years of my life, and i’ve already spent 2 years of my life with 8 months a year, 23 hours a week, learning and obsessing about maths, astronomy, physics, and engineering. having an appreciation for what i do makes you a nice person, it doesnt mean we’d be a good match. its not like i could sit down with you and talk about plans and designs for different mars rovers and missions, or talk about the space programs in terms of engineering design, maybe you’d have a grasp of the general astronomical theories, but could we have a conversation about the different theories for solar system mass accretion, or galactic rotation patterns and behaviors? This kind of science is pretty much my life atm, and I find it a bit rude and patronizing, when its something i’m going to have a $30000 hecs debt from studying, and spend my life doing when people who aren’t really interested in science like that use it as a pick up line kind of thing..no offence meant, thats just the opinion i kind of built with what you started your message with, and it’s kind of the straw that broke the camel’s back with this kind of stuff and these kinds of messages from guys.”
Now tell me, am I once of those clueless guys described by the original poster? What’s the difference between that and trying to show an interest?
Janie says
Evan is right of course….but I would’ve at least started a conversation with you about Bill Bryson’s books. 🙂
JB says
Evan said “And somewhere, there’s an older, slightly overweight woman who is writing to the George Clooney clone on Match, even though he specified his age range was 27-32.”
That’s right ladies it goes both ways every day for men on the internet as well. I have women older than my desired range (43-54) by 5-8 yrs that obviously aren’t physically active or in shape and look like Aunt Bea from Mayberry (or worse Bea Arthur) that email me and wink at me on a daily basis. Btw I look more like Mitt Romney than George Clooney but I’m certainly active and in good physical shape like my profile says. Now I know if they had a brain in their head and really read my profile they would know they weren’t what I was looking for but it actually doesn’t bother me a bit and I get a laugh or 2 everyday. I ignore them and delete them just like they all do hundreds of times a week to men. That’s online dating and it will never change so just have fun with it.
Evan Marc Katz says
@Karl – I don’t like answering questions here, but…
You’re not clueless for the reason that woman suggests you are.
She was very rude and verbose in her response to you. All she had to do was delete your email if she wasn’t interested.
However, where you ARE clueless is in thinking that this is a good pickup line:
“Whilst I am not studying any of the sciences myself, I have always had an appreciation for the rigorous application of observation and testing that goes into unlocking the mysteries of our universe.”
I fell asleep somewhere around “whilst”.
Your first email should be a funny observation, not a “me, too, I agree with you, look at how much we have in common” query.
If you know how to do it, you’re gonna rock.
If you don’t know how to do this, click here.
And if you click here and choose not to buy my product, then don’t complain that online dating doesn’t work for you. Seriously.
Christina says
Funny email! It looks like the OP isn’t taking this too terribly seriously, but a lot of people do. In fact, I was just writing about this myself. Why are people so offended at expressions of interest? Unless the message is offensive outright, what is so upsetting about being contacted by someone you don’t find interesting or attractive?
If you’re a reasonably appealing person, you’re going to get online attention from all sorts. You don’t have to respond or engage. But why be upset?
Fusee says
@Karl S #15: “Now tell me, am I once of those clueless guys described by the original poster? What’s the difference between that and trying to show an interest?”
You were not clueless. She was. Another person who is looking for a clone of themselves and believe that their “match” must be enjoying the same thing that they do. For all that scientific banter that she so desperately need, there are coworkers, friends, and online forums. No need for the boyfriend to be that passionate and knowledgeable about it. Your willingness to show basic curiosity is plenty.
My boyfriend does not need to share all my passions. Just a couple of commons interests are enough to bond. I’d rather keep my compatibility chips for important stuff such as long-term life goals and common values. If that lady has so few (or none) other interests that she needs her “match” to share her science obsession, she really is the clueless one. And to my opinion those people would never do well in a long-term relationship anyway because they are too close-minded and elitist for the level of flexibility and acceptance that relationships require.
Henriette says
I know why men do this. Because, ALL. THE. TIME. women and men state that they need a mate with traits that are actually nothing more than “nice to haves” and then find themselves falling deeply in love with someone who does not resemble their online ideal.
Evan, himself, admits that he wouldn’t have written to his lovely wife had he seen her profile online and yet is now deeply in love and eternally thankful that he wed her. Catholic, Republican, non-East Coast… these would have seemed like deal-breakers yet Mrs. Evan has turned out to be a far better match for him than any of the ladies who fit his stated criteria.
Another example: one of my best friends, an MD, would screen for graduate degrees, athletic competitiveness (marathoners, extreme racers, ironmen, etc) and professional ambition (a “regular” engineer wouldn’t suffice unless he was also planning to get his MBA and someday run the engineering firm). You know who she’s been happily dating since the summer? A cable guy who never went to college, cooks her dinner most nights and accepts her in ways that her Type As never did.
So, it seems like plenty of KC’s admirers know that they don’t win out on many “ideal qualities” lists but hope that they might just be able to make a pretty, accomplished woman happy, anyway.
As for writing back to people in order to reject them; I do. Sure – some of the guys get rude & snarky but some are touched and thank me for my consideration. And you know what? I don’t care that the rude ones are hurt but I’m delighted that the polite ones feel respected and affirmed even as I say no. I’d rather do my wee part to make the world a kind and civil place than succumb to brusqueness.
Robyn says
On OkCupid the last paragraph of your profile is the section entitled “You should message me if”.
If a guy takes the time to read my profile all the way thru, the last part of “You should message me if” says….
If you think we’d be a good match and your reason for saying so is not just “Hey I think you’re cute/bangable”.
It has raised a couple of laughs (a couple of guys have mentioned it in their messages to me). And I’ve yet to receive any exlicit negative comments about it. But since it’s right at the end of my profile, the chances are that it rarely gets read – most people don’t bother to read 100% of profile descriptions/text.
Clare says
@ Evan # 17
Amen! The girl who wrote back to Karl S was rude, but you have such a good point.
My experience has been that if you say you’re interested in something the least bit geeky in your profile, you get guys writing you long intellectual essays showing off how much they know about the subject in question and how superior their understanding of it is.
Now, I don’t hold it against them, and a part of me is touched that this is their attempt to impress me, but what they seem to miss completely is that this is BORING in the way of banter to get to know someone in a relationship sense, and it comes off as pompous. You’re looking for flirting, romance, humour, subtle compliments…
By the way, just my two cents, I know a number of women have written about how they like to connect with a man intellectually. I think it’s overrated. For me, nothing kills the mood quicker than a guy seeing that I’m intelligent and then trying to “prove” that he can hold his own and discuss me into a corner about all sorts of cerebral topics. It’s exhausting. Give me flirting, give me warm, give me sexiness! 😉
Karl R says
KC,
I realize much of your question was intended as humorous, but it’s not unreasonable to find a woman who is looking for a man who…
1. lives nearby
2. belongs to the same (or a similar) denomination
3. wants the same number of kids she does
4. is a homebody, like her (or social and outgoing, like her)
5. has an advanced degree
6. is multilingual
7. is well-read
8. enjoys culture
9. shares “intellectual chemistry”
10. has never married
11. has no kids
12. is close to her age
So we’re up to 11 criteria, and we haven’t even mentioned the three (or more) most important ones. Those are 11 “nice-to-haves”, and each example above, you’re treating it like a “must-have”.
If a woman has 11 nice-to-haves, I’m going to miss at least a couple of them. I don’t know whether they’re the two that she’s treating as must-haves, or two that she knows she can live without.
Why not write her?
By the way, my fiancée misses at least a half-dozen nice-to-haves. For example, she’s not near my age. She’s 16 years older. But with her, I found everything that I need in a relationship. I also got most of the “nice-to-haves”.
Stephanie says
Do you feel being “slightly overweight” or a few extra pounds puts a women at a real disadvantage in the online dating world. I have noticed that larger women than me are putting “average” as their body type, I wonder if this works for or against them?
Lisa says
I think that you should be honest. Put a full body shot of yourself on your page that is recent and not photoshopped. I think what some people think is average others think are overweight so the words don’t mean much. This is one of my guy friends biggest complaints women who are 40 pounds heavier when they show up. L
Marie says
That is so funny! That happens to all of us, I’m sure. What a great letter! I love Evan’s response about it being funny and it making him look huge in Europe
What I’d like to know is what if you’ve taken that a step farther and you’ve actually been dating the guy for a few months and it’s the same thing… with this really nervous, sweet virgin I’ve been dating, I tell him, “even though I’m attracted to you, I don’t feel comfortable with you. Your nervous energy makes me feel so uneasy that it’s hard for me. I don’t feel safe with you.” And he STILL responds that he thinks we could be so good together. Maybe it’s an extension of what Evan says… I’m the first woman to really give him a chance, so he’s going to do whatever he can to hold on to it? I have rejected him every step of the way and yet he keeps asking me to reconsider. I didn’t even want to MEET him, he was SO nervous on the phone it was horribly uncomfortable. But I met him and gave him a chance. Yes, he’s a very nice, kind, loving and attentive guy. But even after breaking up with him, he wanted to be friends, so I gave him some time to get over me and we started talking a month later… we’ve been out once or twice, supposedly as friends, and now he’s STILL telling me that he thinks we’d be good together, that he wants to marry me, etc. He is lovely and nice, but if, after 4-5 months of knowing him, I’m STILL not comfortable, and I still hate talking to him on the phone (I;m a big phone person), clearly he’s not my guy!
hespeler says
About 8 or 9 months ago I went out with a woman I met online who I was very interested in. We had a really nice date that ended in a kiss, however, when I asked for a second date she said politely wished me luck in finding the right person. I, a very experienced online dater, was very disappointed as I have not really found anyone like her. It actually burned me out and I took a break from dating for a bit.
Fast forward to a couple of days ago. I recently was told by a woman who has emotional issues due to the death of her ex-husband that she couldn’t date me anymore because she needed to focus on her kids. Before that I got involved with a girl who was on the rebound, strung me along and wound up going back to her ex-bf. Why did I get involved with these girls? Because despite the outside issues, they were the most interesting to me physically and personality-wise.
Completely burned and reeling from going from one fleeting relationship to another, I use every ounce of energy to log back into Match and try yet one more time to find that special someone. I begin my search and I get a few pages in and who do I see back on there with a new profile and pics? The girl who rejected me 8 months ago. Her photo taunting me just saying, “ha, ha you like me but you can’t have me.” I look through her pics and read her profile and man we are a good match on paper.
So what do I do? Send her an e-mail. I tell her that her new pics look great and hope all is well with her and her daughter. I regretted it immediately after I hit send. I regretted it as I was doing it but couldn’t stop myself. I couldn’t accept that for whatever reason she wasn’t interested because I think we would be a good match. So I send it and then agonizes over whether she will write back or not and prepare myself for being ignored by a woman who I had a nice time with and bought a couple of glasses of wine for.
Well she didn’t ignore me. I saw that she wrote back and was scared to open it. What if she tells me she’s glad I wrote and my pics look great? Wow that would be amazing. What if she tells me to stop wasting my time? I would have to feel the sting of rejection again.
She simply wrote, “Thanks, XXXXX!” “Hope all is well.” She didn’t even look at my profile. I know that she’s just being nice and responding and could care less about me. What do I do? I start typing a response to try and engage her in more conversation. It’s making me sick as I’m writing it and it took all of my will power to stop. I never followed up. I’ll leave it at that. If I force her to re-engage eventually she’ll just ignore me or tell me to stop wasting her and my time.
My long-winded point? Why did I write to a girl that I’ve already been out with and rejected me? Because my eyes usually glaze over as I’m scrolling through the pages of Match and I still found her more interesting than others. I took a stab that maybe just maybe over the past 8 months or so her perspective would change and I could spark some interest again. Guess not.
I agree with EMK that there are a lot of clueless people who live in a fantasy world when e-mailing potenential dates. But there is also the fact that people just e-mail the people who they find most interesting, regardless of how they match up on paper. It’s almost instinctual and biological. What the recipient may consider a waste of time is actually not a wate of time to the sender. They think, what the heck, I’ll give it a stab. Online dating folks, gotta love it…
Fusee says
Along the lines of what was written by Marie @25 and by hespeler @26:
Like Marie, I’ve dealt with men trying to convince me that “we were going to be great together” as they got a little taste of what it would be like to be with me as they had a chance to date me for a few months. They did not care of my clear and detailled explanations as to why we were not compatible because as Evan said, they were only focused on their own needs and what a amazing deal I was to them.
I do not do online dating, so what hespeler experienced is not limited to the online world. Similar to what he did, several men I met in normal life and briefly dated (and broke up with within 2-4 months) came back numerous times in the following months and then years (yes, years!!!), trying to convince me to reconsider, meet again, etc. They obviously had few other options, and/or had not met anyone of equal quality even years later. They were desperate enough to recontact me all those times hoping I was going to be in a similar situation. I think it’s reasonnable to check once more a few months later, but after one more attempt it really reeks desperation and confirms a lack of compatibility.
I felt really bad to have given these men a chance by stupidly succumbing to silly chemistry before carefully assessing compatibility, because it gave them false hopes of having a relationship with someone like me, and elevated their standards to levels that do not make sense given where they are at in life. When they will be more realized as individuals, and better equipped to conduct a relationship, they will be able to attract and keep the interest of higher quality women, but when that time comes, it will serve them better to start fresh with new people rather than trying to convince people they already had their chance with.
This phenomenon is pretty much the equivalent of the 20 or 30 something woman having a sexual relationship with a high-achiever, high income, high charisma, yada yada kind of man and using that experience to make herself believe that she is marriage material to such men. Simply not the case. A man would repeatedly sleep with a woman, even keep her as ongoing longer-term kind of girlfriend, and yet never consider her for marriage despite maybe hinting at it to keep her available for sex and companionship. This booty call/girlfriend status gives these women the illusion that with time they will put in the marriage-material league of such men, which will never happen. In the meantime they do not consider more appropriate options.
hespeler says
Pretty good points Fusee. I go through dry spells like everyone but I usually have options and there was a part of me that regretted recahing out to this woman because I didn’t want her to think I had nothing else and was desperatley trying to get a second crack. That’s why I sent a friendly, non-agressive e-mail and waited to see her response. But even more so, I didn’t care so much about looking desperate because you know what? 8 months later she’s back on Match too so she struggling to find someone just like I am. I remember her telling me how much she hated Match and how she met a lot of nice guys but none of them were interesting (me too I guess), yet here she is right back on the site. Why? Because it’s hard to meet that someone special.
As a matter of fact, I can’t scroll through 10 pages without seeing someone that I have either been out with or have at least corresponded with. People disappear for a while but most wind up on the site again. It’s a revolving door.
We assume we are or we’re not a match for someone based on an online profile, after one date, two dates, three dates. The fact is we really don’t know until we can spend a few months with the person. The problem is, we often get wrong who we want to spend that few months with.
Joe says
@ Goldie #13:
Maybe (or maybe not) no one is that picky, but as Karl R points out, how is a guy to know which of the criteria is really a must-have instead of a nice-to-have?
@ Stephanie #24:
There’s a bit of categorization one would describe as “generous” out there–the Lake Wobegon Effect. The overweight girls describe themselves as average, the average girls describe themselves as slender, and the slender girls, well, they have no other category to creep into.
JB says
@hespeler #26 – That’s happened to all of us men doing online dating at one time or another…lol Just forget about it and email 5 NEW women.
Honestly ladies a lot of men don’t care what your profile says or what you say you want. If you’re cute and anywhere in the ballpark you get an email. We just email a bunch of you and see what sticks…..LOL Believe me you’d be surprised at what “sticks” or who gets real interested and could care less about “interests”, What they’re “looking for or want”etc….. when Mr. Gorgeous, 6’2”, Master’s Degree, 150K emails them. I know for myself since I started making 100K a year I got a lot more responses, profile views, and of course dates. It’s a good thing I got that “raise”…….LOL Too funny 🙂
Jackie B says
@hespeler #26 – Thank you. You just saved me from doing the same thing.
Stephanie says
@Joe#29:
Lake Wobegon Effect, ha!, funny..what is the effect called, where guys grow taller online:)?
K says
@JB, excuse me if I’m mistaken, but are you the same person who lies about their age and education? Are you now saying you lie about income too or that you just decided to now show your real income? If these are all lies it’s definitely creeping away from small fibs to being outright deceitful.
Meghan says
Thank you for this! I’ve been online dating for a week and was very puzzled and taken aback by a very similar situation. Me:bookworm, quiet, thoughtful, not into sports. Him: mountain biker, downhill skier, bungee jumper etc. etc. I wrote back “thanks but I don’t think we have a lot in common and best wishes in your search” and got back a load of aggression and grief for being illogical and rigid and ‘not open to new experiences’ I’m 43 years old, and I’m certain I’m not about to become an extreme sports fanatic! So I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one with this experience.
JB says
That is my “real” income. Like it’s any woman’s business how much money I make…lol Puhhhleezzzz!! Deceitful with a lot dates and options is better than honest with very few. Isn’t it a shame I just can’t be 100% honest and get the same results? A fib here, a fib there, I no longer care. I was so naive for years with my “honest” profile. Now it’s whatever it takes to get results and I like the results I’ve been getting. I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you I’m sure there’s plenty of 100% honest people online you just have to figure out who they are. 🙂
K says
@JB I’m not judging you. There is no need for me. Everyone can and should decide for themselves what is acceptable behavior. If you feel you are fibbing and that the type of woman you want to be with will overlook those fibs when she finds out the truth, then sure that seems like a successful strategy for you. Perhaps you’ve had success telling women the truth and they have accepted it and did not mind. If you aren’t worried about the right lady leaving once she knows, then why not. Or for you the right lady is the one that would understand your position on fibs. I don’t want to take that risk and would be upset about those fibs. But that is just me and my life.
Kathleen says
Great topic! Loved the simplicity of the answer.
I was baffled regarding the most extreme example I get….
Guys saying they want a good God fearing woman who puts Christ first…….
I say my profile says Im not religious plus I got expelled from religious classes in school
….they say no problem!!!… we should meet …… WTF? …now I get it
I finally learn to just ignore and delete
James says
There were 2 things I was surprised Evan didn’t mention in his response:
1) Women are more likely to respond to self-assured men, especially early on in the dating process. You didn’t respond to these guys IN SPITE of the faith they showed in themselves, not because of it.
2) People are often more flexible in reality then they state in their profiles (which may have been written several months ago). So whilst it might be a risk for a 5’10” man to write to a woman who says she’s looking for 6′ only, its oten worth chancing your arm
Goldie says
@ Joe #29: I encourage the guy to use common sense. If my profile says I’m 5’9″ and I expect the man to be 5’8″ and taller, then 5’7″ probably isn’t a big deal. If my cutoff age is 48 and he’s 49, probably not a big deal. If he’s 69, that is probably a big deal. If he lives 45 miles away, not a big deal. If he’s a six-hour drive away, that’s a big deal. If he wants to have kids of his own and I don’t, that’s a big deal. If he wants a woman with no kids and I already have two, that’s a big deal. If he hates dogs and wouldn’t be in the same room with one, and I have a dog, that is a big deal. If my profile says I love the outdoors and he hates the outdoors – that’s a big deal. etc etc. I’d say a good guideline should be trying to picture the two of us doing things together that are not related to sex or eating. If there is absolutely nothing he can picture us doing together as a couple, on a regular basis, that we both enjoy and can both physically do together, and that isn’t sex or eating, then we probably aren’t a good match. On top of everything I just listed, if he is unable to use his common sense enough to figure these things out, then we probably are not a good match.
Just to show that it works both ways, during my online-dating period, I got emails from people in their 20s, people that work in show biz, musicians, artists etc and none of those exchanges ever got past two-three emails on each side. They probably figured out that I wouldn’t fit into their lifestyle, and stopped emailing. Which is fine with me, because they’re right, I wouldn’t. Most of us come to dating sites because, at the end of the day, we want to find a person that we can have a good time with together as a couple. So why bother contacting someone that you already know you either have nothing in common with, or cannot physically do things with as a couple due to long distance etc?
@ Kathleen, I got those messages too! Oh hey there, you’re an atheist, well God means everything to me and I am looking for a God-fearing lady and I think you and I should go on a date… why? why??? I used to send them a nice letter of “thanks, but no thanks” because I really think a date like this, would be a disaster waiting to happen.
@ JB, I preferred it when people did not list their income at all. I didn’t know my current bf’s income until 3-4 months after we started dating. As long as the man doesn’t plan on living off me, I really don’t want to know how much he makes. I’d be curious to see how your “raise” works out for you in the long run. My concern would be that, by listing a high income, you open yourself up for emails and dates with women who are primarily after a guy’s income… hope I’m wrong on this one.
hespeler says
JB 30 and Jackie B 31,
I know what happened is very common in dating, especially online dating. Since her rejection, I’ve been out with probably 10 or 12 different woman, a couple who I have had a two or three month relationship. It is what it is, “you wanna go out? No? Ok, next, you wanna go out, no? OK, next.”
My results are ok and I say this with all due humility and without an ounce of bragadocia – I usually can wrestle up plenty of dates (of course with dry spells here and there). This affords me to be somewhat picky. The woman I spoke about is objectively one of the more attractive woman on the site which allows her to be somewhat more picky too. It’s a blow to the ego when you think, “OK, this is the Match I’ve been looking for.” But she regards you as just another dude that isn’t interesting enough. That’s why I have finally realized that it is truly a numbers game.
And you’re right, just e-mail 5 more woman. Problem is, finding 5 more woman is hard. Maybe you see one or two. Maybe. Hence, I tried to beat a dead horse by contacting her. Funny thing is, I remember being so disappointed because she was exactly my type and she was smart and had a cool personality. Now I look at her and I’m still very attracted and would love to date her but she’s not all I made her out to be. She now looks like just another female profile on Match.
Jackie B 31, it’s up to you. On paper, the woman and I were a really good Match. I think she was attracted to me since she kissed me (maybe she didn’t like the kiss). We had a pleasant evening. I really see no reason why she would flake out. It has to be something superficial which I can’t change.
I will say I had very little confidence that my overture would work. I’ve had girls write me after I decided not to see them again after a first date. It never works but I’m sure stranger things have happened.
Kathleen says
Great post Goldie .
James 38 ..When these guys contact me it has little to do with a degree of flexibility.
Its an extreme mismatch
I have in my profile I compete in 20 mile canoe races in summer. In my photos I show Im an athlete I only ask for a smart guy in great shape. Thats it. Some of the guys contacting me look like they couldn’t walk a block without being winded or they are clearly overweight.
Some are quite elderly 65-80 and I would be very fearful of physically hurting them!
Joe says
@ Stephanie #32:
Same Lake Wobegon Effect: just as women get thinner, men get taller (and have more hair), and both genders get younger.
Fusee says
@Goldie #39:
“Oh hey there, you’re an atheist, well God means everything to me and I am looking for a God-fearing lady and I think you and I should go on a date… why? why???”
You’re reacting like a woman who’s got options : ) I do not do online dating but from what I learned by reading men’s perspectives on it, it looks quite hard for some of them to get responses to their emails. Makes sense then to try convincing uncompatible women that “it could work out” and see who happens to be more flexible than what her profile states. If they try with enough ladies, it might indeed work out with a couple of them. Low effort, low risk. And let’s not forget that sex and food is “enough in common” for the average man, who happens to disproportionally date online over real life, given that his after-work routine is often limited to eating dinner, masturbating, and watching sports. Would not matter that much to him if you go to church, walk your dog, or bungee jumps as long as you come back home to have dinner and sex with him afterwards.
“I’d be curious to see how your “raise” works out for you in the long run. My concern would be that, by listing a high income, you open yourself up for emails and dates with women who are primarily after a guy’s income…”
If all they’re after is getting a bit more first dates (and a few more chances for easy sex), it’s going to be worth it for them to lie. Online dating creates more temptations to lie and gives great opportunities to do so. I do not believe such people think of the long-term consequences of their lies on a relationship that does not yet exist. If they were, they would not lie. And even if they did seriously seek a LTR, they could rationalize their dating methods as a screening mechanism: if she sticks around when she knows my real income, she’s good to go, if not, she was a gold-digger. They also know they might anyway end up paired up with another “white liar” of “average weight” but wearing a size 14, so who would be to blame? Like attracts like.
It’s always the same story: people with the most desired (although unnecessary) features do not need to misrepresent themselves and can afford being more selective, while those with less will try to cut corners. Character qualities – which are all that truly matter – are lost in the process.
Maya says
Nice one Evan. Love reading whatever u gotta say. Btw. you are famous not just in Europe but also in Central Europe! U made it far… btw. too got ur book Why he dissapeared. Love it. Read it everytime I get down and sad :D. Bless you.
Rochelle says
I don’t reply to a man if I am not interested. Like others here, I used to do that frequently with something like “Sorry I don’t think we’re a good match, best of luck”. and usually they’d get defensive, insult me or try to convince me I was wrong. So I figure I’m not going to meet them so why bother risking the negative backlash and waste time replying. A few guys don’t take silence as not interested though and keep on trying, in which case I just block them at that point.
Goldie says
@ Hespeler, wanted to say that I remember your posts about that date from 8-9 months ago, so was interested to see the update. I agree that this was odd of her. Personally, it would take an absolute disaster of a first date for me to not stay in touch with the person afterwards. I dated online for about six months last year and made at least half a dozen good friends. Not in terms of “we all hang out together every day”, but in terms of, we can reach out to one another if we need help or advice (which, over the past year, both they and I have done a few times. One guy in particular gave me invaluable advice on a family situation, that probably kept me and my family out of major trouble.) And, if the date was awful, I’d usually let the person know that I don’t think it’s going to work out, etc. I only got burned once during the six months of dating. After a so-so first date, the guy said there was no chemistry and he didn’t want to meet again, and I kind of pushed staying in touch because we work in the same field and I thought he’d be a valuable business connection. He ended up going out with me two more times (both his idea) and messing with my head so badly, it took me months to recover. My takeaway from that was, if the person doesn’t want to stay in touch, don’t try to stay in touch, not even as an acquaintance or business connection. You can get them to talk to you and meet with you again, but, if their heart isn’t in it, all they’re going to do is hurt you. Let her go. You had a great first date, which is one great date more than what I had with that guy. Cherish the memories. Good luck. I’m sure you’ll find what you’re looking for.
JB says
Fusee #43 is right. Do you think I really care about the long term ramifications of a woman finding out I DON’T make a 100k or have a Bachelors degree? I’m going to be 52 yrs old in 2 weeks and I’m meeting women and having fun. I’m not looking for a wife! What do I care if she finds that stuff out somehow and dumps me….LOL She either likes ME the person/personality or she doesn’t. It has little to do with profile stats. You think the woman I was making out with last night thought to herself……”JB, is such a good kisser(her words in a text this morning) and it’s a good thing he makes 100K and has a degree because that’s why I enjoy it”…LOL
I think this woman I’ve had a few dates with likes ME for ME. If not, no biggie there’s noobs that come online everyday. You know the profiles that say “I’m new to online dating” or “I never thought I’d be doing this” etc…… “Perfect Match”?? ….LOL Who cares if anyone is a “Perfect Match” ? That’s like all that “soulmate”, The One”, and “Mr. Right” drivel. I know it sells books and movies to women that’s about it.
huh? says
How are you 53 and do not have a bachelors? Don’t you mean you are 23?
hespeler says
Goldie 46,
Thanks for the pep talk. I let her go a while ago. Seeing her online again months later just confirms to me that the playing field is indeed level. I reached out to her because we had a pleasant evening and to pay her a genuine complement. If her perspective changed and she became interested again fine but I sure wasn’t banking on it.
I’m not in the business of forcing people to be with me as no one should be. Now when I scroll through all the profiles and see her and otehrs I’ve been out with that didn’t go anywhere, I can finally say, “good luck.” Just not worth worrying why someone doesn’t want to date you.
Goldie says
JB #47
” I’m going to be 52 yrs old in 2 weeks and I’m meeting women and having fun. I’m not looking for a wife!”
Happy upcoming birthday!! Okay, I’m confused. You say you’re looking for casual with women that are also looking for casual. Then why are they so hellbent that your income be in the six figures? (like you said in your previous post #30) Either they’re really looking for an LTR, which you say you don’t plan on giving them, or they’re looking for the highest bidder and then I’m just… wow.
“You think the woman I was making out with last night thought to herself……”JB, is such a good kisser(her words in a text this morning) and it’s a good thing he makes 100K and has a degree because that’s why I enjoy it”…LOL”
If it doesn’t matter to them, then why do you say you were getting less responses and dates when you listed your income as below 100K?
““Perfect Match”?? ….LOL Who cares if anyone is a “Perfect Match” That’s like all that “soulmate”, The One”, and “Mr. Right” drivel. I know it sells books and movies to women that’s about it. ”
Agreed, but personally, I like to respect the man I’m with, even if it’s for casual sex (because, odds are, we’ll stay in touch afterwards). I would have a hard time respecting a woman who responds to a guy when his income is listed as 100K, but won’t respond to the same guy when his income is listed as 75K. But that’s my personal preference and I understand that it may not be shared by everyone.
Ruby says
JB #47
“I’m going to be 52 yrs old in 2 weeks and I’m meeting women and having fun. I’m not looking for a wife! What do I care if she finds that stuff out somehow and dumps me….LOL!”
Most women I know in who are over 40 are definitely looking for a serious relationship. It may not necessarily be marriage (although most are – dating is hard, and we are ready to stop doing it), although I don’t think anyone would rule that out, but living together or a serious boyfriend, for sure. The only ones who might not be are women who still aren’t over their marriages. I’m wondering if that could be a problem for you more than anything else.
JB says
@Goldie. Thanks for the birthday wish. I said it doesn’t matter to them when they’re making out with me but it might of mattered when they were listing their delusional search criteria. The point is I’ll never know who wouldn’t of emailed me if I DIDN”T make 100K because no woman would ever admit it anyway.
@Ruby “Most women I know in who are over 40 are definitely looking for a serious relationship.”
That’s fine they can look for whatever they want and so can I. You find what you find. As Annie Lennox says “Everybody’s looking for something”
Joshua Pompey says
I think often times men become so desperate to make something happen that they convince themselves that the person is who they want to be. its almost a fantasy with online dating. You see a picture, and in your mind that person can be anything you want them to be because you have yet to actually meet them. Then there are other men who will convince themselves they can adapt to any woman and be whatever women want them to be. Clearly this is never a great approach, as it will not only work in the long run, but women are turned off to men who become chameleons towards their personalities!
Funny blog entry though!
Kathleen says
Joshua 52
Great point!
Heres a perfect example of that. A few weeks ago a guy contacted me. He lives probably 1-2 hrs away with traffic I talked him with over the phone. He seemed personable enough and I expressed my concern regarding the distance. He said ..
“NO PROBLEM!! When do you come up to Studio City?? Id like to make you margaritas “. I said I don’t and Id rather have margaritas served at a bar or restaurant closer to me. He said on the first meeting he’d like me to wear a short dress. The he proceeded to ask me to wear a perfume called “Blue” which I said I don’t own or know of nor is it my favorite perfume.
I started to hear that song in my head by Gotye ” Someone that I used to know”
I wrote back to tell him I have my own unique sense of style and I don’t do impersonations of someone else. He said “NO PROBLEM!” please reconsider …
JB says
Average online woman’s delusional thought process:”I wouldn’t of returned your email if you didn’t make 100K”
In a guys mind: We don’t care.
Average online woman’s delusional thought process:I wouldn’t of returned your email if you didn’t have a Bachelors degree.
In a guys mind: We don’t care.
Average online woman’s delusional thought process:
I wouldn’t of returned your email if you weren’t 6 feet tall.
In a guys mind: We don’t care.
Average online woman’s delusional thought process:I wouldn’t of returned your email if you didn’t have a good job title.
In a guys mind: We don’t care.
Like Evan said……. Do you see where I’m going with this.
MEN DON’T CARE WHAT YOU WANT.
We’re men, we care what WE want.
If we find you attractive you’ll get an email. PERIOD 🙂
If we don’t get a response we’ll email 20 more. Believe me YOU’RE not that special.
Ruby says
JB #54
If a guy writes me with the attitude that he doesn’t care what my profile says and doesn’t think I’m particularly special, he shouldn’t be surprised by my lack of response. If I find a man attractive, interesting, we share some common interests, and he’s not 6 feet tall, I’d still respond to him. I’ve dated men without college degrees as long as they were smart and ambitious, as well as those who didn’t make 100K, if they were capable of supporting themselves, and were happy with their work. Those things you think all women care about, are not necessarily what all women actually look for. But a man who thinks I’m special? Yes, I look for that first.
justme says
I’ll second what Ruby said at 55.
I’ve dated men who didn’t have degrees, I have dated men who were about the same height as I am (5’2″). I have dated men who have told me their income exceeds 100k; I have never ask and I don’t give what they listed as their income on a dating site as proof of what they are making.
But a man with integrity, who thinks I’m special – those are the things this “delusional” woman wants.
elli says
Hespeler, I view your situation differently. Nothing is lost, in my opinion. If you felt that there was at least a little “something” between you and the woman, I think there is a chance to continue. There can be many reasons as to why she decided not to meet you again. Once it happened to me that I went on a date with a man who I found half-attractive, half-right for me, half-prospective, etc., although he was nice to me, polite, good-looking and a pleasant and funny companion. I just didn ´t have that special feeling but I felt good with him. The problem was that I simply didn ´t know if I wanted to meet him again and since I didn ´t want to mislead him and waste his time, I wasn ´t welcoming to his invitation. And the main problem was that he felt it and lost courage and gave up. Then he emailed me again after 2-3 months in a friendly way, I responded in a similar way and he gave up again. What I want to say is that there must be at least ONE who is willing to pursue, although the other one is hesitant. I would have given him a chance if he had invited me again and at least we both would have understood that we weren ´t right for each other. In this way I can ´t say, maybe something would have developed, I really can ´t be sure. If he had tried again I would have definitely at least appreciated his courage and effort. He decided to give up, so even though I wasn ´t particularly interested in him, he lost some points in my eyes.
I believe that if you feel that somebody is worth the effort, you shouldn ´t give up until it is absolutely clear that your effort leads nowhere. When the woman responded to your follow-up email, perhaps you should have continued communication and tried to invite her out at least as a friend. She might have accepted. You would have known her better. Maybe you would have come to a conclusion that she wasn ´t right for you. Or maybe she would have understood that there was some potential in you. She might have even felt flattered that you had returned to her after meeting other women.
If I were in your shoes I would definitely write to her again. In a friendly manner, nothing “heavy”. Then if your communication developed a little, you could ask her if she didn ´t feel like joining you on a bike – or whatever you two have in common – and maybe she would say yes. Of course, this is risky business and if you decided to do it, youwould risk being hurt again and maybe again afterwards… But at least you would have a clear conscience that you did everything that you could have done and perhaps your self-esteem would incease because of courage you expressed and maybe your whole attitude to women and dating would turn a different direction. Who knows? Isn ´t it worth a try? But if you feel her rejection ould leave you devastated, I wouldn ´t do it because in that case you are simply not ready for such action.
Last, but not least. I am a woman – from Europe by the way -and I have done what I suggested to you and it worked! Believe me or not, he was hesitant when I wrote to him after about 2 months, so tried again after about 2 months and again after a few weeks and finally we started corresponding with each other again. I just asked him if he didn ´t want to join me walking my dog, just as friends, he said yes, why not and, I myself can ´t believe it, it has developed into a nice relationship. And I don ´t think he is emasculated by my moves, he is really into me like a man can be into a woman and after my original initiative he is the one who pursues… Maybe this is an exception but unusual things happen all the time, you just have to believ in them and help them happen….
I wish eevrybody good luck and thanks to Evan for all the useful advice!
Goldie says
@ JB #54
“MEN DON’T CARE WHAT YOU WANT.
We’re men, we care what WE want.
If we find you attractive you’ll get an email. PERIOD.”
Who’s the “we” here? This doesn’t apply to most of the men I dated, and definitely does not apply to the one I’m with now. None of them sent mass emails to anything that had an attractive photo in its profile — they did not have the need to. With the women that these guys did email, they would read the whole profile, check their match percentages, and all around were very selective about who they wanted to contact or go out with. Some of these guys just plain did not want casual sex; others were able to get it through other venues. When you have half a dozen potential FWBs lined up, it doesn’t really pay to email a random woman on a dating site and pretend you’re interested in her as a person when you’re not, just for casual. Too much work for something you can easily get elsewhere. This is a long way of saying that, when you make statements like this one, you cannot speak for all men. I’m pretty offended for my guy friends right now, actually.
As for me, I agree with Ruby and Justme ##55, 56. Color me delusional, but why the hell would I reply to a man who doesn’t care what I want? How would I benefit from that? Get laid? — I never needed a random stranger for that. That’s what friends are for 😉 Like Ruby, I did not reply to emails that looked like a telemarketer’s cold call — you know the ones. “Hi”, “How’s your day going”, “your hot” etc. If I see “your hot” in my inbox, I do not care what income, height and degree he listed on his profile — matter of fact, I’ll never find out what his profile looks like — because I’ll delete the email and forget all about him a moment later.
starthrower says
JB a swing and a miss……
Clare says
@ JB # 54
Yeah, I’ll third what Ruby and Justme said.
I’ve put “any” under professions of my ideal match. The site I’m on doesn’t show what your exact income is, and I don’t care. Basically as long as he’s responsible with money, can support himself and has a generous heart, it doesn’t matter to me one iota.
I have never even looked at the height specs of any guy I communicate with online, because I’m small myself.
What counts very heavily with me though is how good a guy makes me feel. A guy who “doesn’t care” what I want because I’m “not that special” will not get far at all with me. And I’m pretty and relatively young, so I’m thinking your assessment of women, whilst sadly not uncommon, is off.
Goldie says
Looks like I lost my train of thought for a minute there last night. Need to add a correction to my last post. I meant to say that, *like Ruby*, I’ve responded to and gone out with people whose profile didn’t exactly meet my expectations – people without degrees, older than my cutoff, living 70 miles away, three inches shorter than myself, unknown income (a lot of them were single dads and as such struggling financially regardless of their income), as long as I found him interesting and he made it clear he was interested in me as a person. For me, the opposite was also true. If he doesn’t care what I want, I don’t care what he wants. Next. BTW I don’t believe this is “what Evan said”. It is one thing to say men need a little physical attraction and action, and quite another to say they don’t care for anything else.
JB says
Everybody’s “special” what I was saying is any ONE profile isn’t THAT special when there’s 100,000 to choose from. I know a “special” woman when I meet her like the one I’m dating now. I also know how to treat her and make her feel special. I’m not an idiot.
And I don’t and never have emailed a woman with Hi”, “How’s your day going”, “your hot” etc. Even when I’ve emailed 5 or 6 in a day. I know how to tailor a template to make YOU think I think your profile is “special” that’s all.
I do read and care what some women want. The ones that say they want kids. I don’t email them ever under any circumstances. The ones that say I must accept the lord as my savior etc….. err…. I don’t think so
Jackie B says
@hespeler 40 — I’ve had girls write me after I decided not to see them again after a first date. It never works but I’m sure stranger things have happened.
Okay. I had to write since I know this is almost always true and certainly emailing someone again when they have no additional information about you is unlikely to yield a different result, but I’ve been divorced for 15 years and 2 of my 5 relationships in that time have come from guys who did not call me again after 1st and 2nd dates. However, I waited a few months and invited them to a business event as a friend like this:
Hi Bill. It’s Jackie and I met you through XYZ a few months ago. Hey, my company is having their annual holiday party and I was wondering if you might be able to attend as my friend? It’s December 6 at the University Club and it’s always an amazing event. If you can’t make it, it’s no big deal, I have other guy friends I know would fill in for me but you’re the best package of attractive, articulate and outgoing so I thought I would ask you first. Let me know. Hope life is good. Jackie (It needs friend language, an easy out for them and a compliment)
So, this is likely to have them say yes but you should treat them as a friend and not a date. At the end of the night, you say something like “hey, thanks for filling in for me, you really made me look good. If I can ever return the favor, let me know.”
My success? Guy 1 – dated a year and asked me to marry him Guy 2 – dated 8 months
This likely worked because I am a bit stiff/akward on first dates esp. if I’m really into the guy but at business functions, I tend to be totally myself so they saw the real Jackie versus the stiff Jackie.
Good luck.
drsanchez says
I want to expand on Evan’s reply: he’s right, the guy is only thinking about what ~he~ wants. He said, “Men do what THEY want. They don’t do what YOU want.” But it goes both ways: “Women also do what THEY want. They don’t do what the guy wants.” The letter writer is also only thinking about what ~she~ wants and she’s getting pissed at guys for not seeing things from her point of view. Is LW seeing things from the guy’s point of view? No, and she shouldn’t have to, but then she can’t expect the guy to see it from her point of view either. Maybe this guy has had long-distance relationships that worked. Maybe he’s dated girls who, on paper, weren’t a good match but he’s open-minded enough to realize that people with sh|tty jobs and non-perfect-overlapping interests can be beautiful mates, too. Maybe he’s fighting above his weight class — good for him for trying to land such an amazing woman with such high standards as the original LW (yup, that was sarcasm).
But more important, he probably realizes that these hard-and-fast “requirements” that everyone has are carved in stone for some people, and entirely optional for other people (see Henriette #20). LW is just changing her rules on a case-by-case basis.
So the game that we all have to play is the guy does the all asking and the woman does all the choosing (at first) from the dozen emails she gets per week/day/month. We all get that and usually accept it. But as has been discussed countless times before, guys have to put up with a lot of soul-crushing rejection, and girls have to put up with unattractive guys saying hello (how dare they?). Grin and bear it, be polite in your response, or just ignore him. But getting pissed at some guy for trying? Get over yourself.
And stop with the generalizations that guys are only in it for sex. I’m not. I’m looking for a long-term relationship, not an easy lay.
Joe says
Ruby, Goldie, starthrower, et al.: I don’t think you’re getting what JB is saying. What I think he’s saying that what you want doesn’t mean anything to him when he decides whether or not he’s going to send you a message. He doesn’t really care if you want a rich 6-footer with a degree; if he thinks you’re attracted, he’ll message you. The only things that you want that he pays attention to are things that he knows he doesn’t want (the religious wannabe moms). Everyone else is fair game.
hespeler says
To the folks advocating me trying to fan the flames with the girl I had one date with in the beginning of the year; I sincerely appreciate the advice. However, I think I’ll leave this one alone.
As a guy, I’ve done my fair share of losing face to pursue women I was really interested in. I, like most other guys, accept the fact that we have to lose some dignity along the way in the dating game. We don’t like it but we accept it. That said, you have to pick your battles and I don’t think this one is worth it.
She didn’t even bother to give a second look at my profile or pictures when I reached out to her a few weeks ago; she answered me probably just to be polite.
I did have a really nice time with her but she did have a little bit of a conceited attitude from what I recall. I also remember her saying that she has gone out with a few guys from Match on and off for a year or so and found none of them interesting. This is probably not an easy girl to please.
When I tried to reach out to her for a second date she politely told me she didn’t want to waste my time and wished me the best of luck in my search and told me she knew I would find the right person. Pretty straightforward I guess.
Every once in a while I take a look at the “competition” when I’m on Match and based on what I’ve seen and what she seems to be looking for in her profile, I wish her the best of luck…
Lastly, I really need to get away from online dating for a while. I’ve done a whole lot of it for the last 3 years and I just don’t think I will find what I’m looking for on there. I have nothing against it and I think it can work but I have enough of a sample to see how it works for me and I’ve concluded it that I may have better options just going out and trying to meet girls at bars/clubs. Though I know this isn’t a great way either.
JB says
Joe’s right on his take of my post. Men get rejected so much it’s basically a numbers game for us. It takes minutes to dash off a few emails and we have nothing to lose. The long personalized emails to that one special profile who their never going to hear from anyway are a waste of time for and to most guys. The more women we email the better chance we’ll get a response or the miracle of a “meet & greet”. I was also talking about SOME/MANY avreage men online in general that’s the “WE” Goldie not ALL men or even myself who is a lot more selective than my post came across as I can assure you.
Also remember that the average man/woman online doesn’t have the knowledge or study all the things or think like the people on this blog. Many are naive, new , have little experience and are clueless to all we know and discuss here. They ALL think differently.
And Joe, everyone else still isn’t fair game….lol I don’t email tall women that love to travel. Ya know why? I’m not attracted to tall women and I hate traveling….lol
🙂
JB says
Moderator can you fix my typo’s?
4th line their to they’re
7th line the word average is mispelled
I was in a hurry this morning…LOL
Evelyn says
As long as you are correcting errors and typos, it is would HAVE, could HAVE, not would OF.
Lying is never a good idea. Just leave the income portion blank. Increasing your income makes you seem desperate, and that you believe all women are out for your money. If you just want a casual relationship anyway, income shouldn’t be a factor.
Joe says
JB, then those tall, traveling women would not fall in the category of “if he thinks you’re attractive” (I had a typo in my post)!
JB says
Thanks Moderator you did a great job!…LOL
But really if you were not gonna fix the typos you could’ve at least deleted the note I wrote for your eyes only……err… like this one. 🙂
Clare says
@ hespeler #66
You’ve made the right choice to let that girl go, but I would caution you against the thinking that you have lost any “dignity” in your approach, or that guys lose dignity by putting themselves out there for girls.
I think this thinking is at the root of some of the pain of rejection which we see expressed here from some guys.
There is no shame and no loss of dignity *whatsoever* in approaching a girl and being turned down. I can assure you most (nice) women do not think that, we admire the confidence, courage and effort, and feel flattered. How can there possibly be any loss of dignity in putting yourself out there, how else will you find your potential partner? It’s laudable.
The only mistake comes in persisting and ignoring the obvious signs when someone is not interested.
Kathleen says
I got an email from a local guy on Match this afternoon. Half way through his profile he disclosed he’s a paraplegic. The 2 things I say upfront Im looking for is a smart guy in great shape since Im very athletic.
This is a tough one. I admire his spirit and courage and Im going to write a kind response but Im a bit perplexed on what to say.
I had just seen the movie yesterday called ” The Intouchibles” which is a fantastic movie about the relationship between a French aristocrat quadriplegic and the guy who became his caretaker.
Catherine says
When guys keep emailing you via dating sites after you have said not “interested”, one wonders if they are crazy. e.g. one has seen their photo and knows one is not remotely attracted to them. One tries to be nice and give a less hurtful brush off than ” Hey buddy, you’re bald and butt ugly” but trying to be nice means they keep bugging you. Does one have to join the dots with a fluoro pen for them to get the message that one is not interested and no amount of email harassment is going to change one’s mind an even confirm’s one conviction that they did they right thing in saying “‘pass”.
Catherine says
yes Kathleen, the Intouchables is a lovely movie but the rich quadriplegic and his caregiver are not looking to have a sexual relationship!
It would be very challenging to be in a relationship with a paraplegic, particularly if one is very physically oriented.
kiesh says
Evan, I predicted your response on this one. Men who want to get laid turn into the BEST salesmen. LOL.
hespeler says
Clare 71,
Good points and I don’t want my post to be taken to an extreme. Of course confidence and willingness to put yourself out there are valuable traits that are admirable (in many instances not just dating). There is a difference, however – as has been mentioned here many times, men are forced to play a numbers game as we have to face rejection a lot so it becomes a delicate balance of maintaining some dignity and self esteem while staying in the game to find someone.
After all if you are confident (I am), it is difficult to face rejections from women whom you believe you are on par with. Continuing to pursue these women who seemingly have no interest does feel like a loss of dignity.
I can tell you this – yes I am a man and I do like to be the one to pursue, yes I know that is the traditional role. But it can get pretty exhausting when you are dating to have women you’re dating exit your life for whatever reason and then start the process all over agin. “OK, time to muster up the motivation and courage, put yourself out there, and ask someone else out again…”
I wouldn’t have it any other way but it’s only natural to feel like you lose some dignity when you’re always the one asking the other for their company. This is why you see women complaining about men sending nasty e-mails, calls or texts after declinations. And this is why you see men on here essentially telling women that if we find you attractive, we may take a stab however laughable you think that stab may be.
hespeler says
I should have included this but to sum up, depending on what’s going on in my life at the time, I may see a woman I’m attracted to and interested in but I may have gotten shot down a few times recently. I have to mitigate the damage and not approach tonight because I’m still licking my wounds.
There are guys who are teflon and just go from one approach to the next. Very admirable but most of us are sensitive to rejection and need to minimize it as much as possible.
David T says
@hespeler 76,77
men are forced to play a numbers game as we have to face rejection a lot so it becomes a delicate balance of maintaining some dignity and self esteem
Ah, but the key there is to NOT let it become a self esteem thing. Why should it? The cover jacket on the novel that is you did not immediately catch the eye of one reader you were interested in. So what?
A close friend of mine said something to me some months ago that really stuck: “I encourage you to date the women who want to be with you.” So, when one of two women that I was in the early stages of dating, the one I thought I was a better match for, said she was not ready to date right now, I was a little disappointed. (Whether she really is not ready to date anyone, or not ready to date me in particular is not something I know, and maybe she didn’t either, but it doesn’t matter.)
Meanwhile the other one is clearly into me and that is becoming a rewarding experience. How far we go remains to be seen, but the point is, I don’t take it personally. One person did not see a relationship with me as a good fit for her at this point and time, so I move on. I don’t waste my energy in pursuit of the unavailable one, I spend it enjoyably on the one who returns interest, and if she wasn’t in the picture I would spend it looking for someone else who does.
You can be teflon too. Remind yourself that they are judging how much they will enjoy being in a relationship with you, not you in particular. They live inside their own heads and barely even know who you are, so their decision is based on very little information about you. Deciding you are not part of a relationship they want to be in is a lot more about them than about you.
Reread Clare71. She gets it.
To all: Having to “read signs” is unfortunate. A direct thanks but no thanks is not the best way (and “obvious sign.:) Oh, and women who receive flame messages from declining? Frickin’ ignore them! Don’t let that scare you away from being direct. Again, that is about them, not you. Why should you care if they are annoyed or not?
ElvenSpirit says
Doing the same thing as George Clooney: smile and delete – pisses most of these guys off and they start to send nasty messages on online dating sites and finally most of them have to be reported or blocked.
Lisa says
This happened to me all the time! I knew the guys just looked at my pic and did not care if they were not even closer to what I was looking for. I would never email men though attractive or not who are not looking for me! I think part of the problem is that men have to send out so much email to get a response they take it out on you. I got the nastiest emails ever whether I responded or ignored. It was so bad I stopped doing the online dating.