How Can I Meet Men Online if I’m a Celebrity?

Hey Evan, I am writing to you from a pseudonym because I’m a public figure and could use your advice! I may not be a household name, but I have enough of a recognizability that makes online dating impossible. Even if I put up a profile that is vague about exactly what I do, people will know my photo and it would create gossip that I am on a dating site, and this is something I cannot do.

At first glance, you may think my question is too niche to answer, but I think this is something relevant to for example business leaders and people of some recognizability, and these days more and more people have online fame for different reasons.

In the past I have tried dating others in a similar position as me, but it hasn’t worked out for different reasons. After a recent dud, involving the son of a very famous actor, I have been reading your blog thoroughly and I want to commit to putting your words of wisdom into practice. I realize that finding a great relationship isn’t about my own status or accomplishments, or the other person’s, and I am more than willing to date a “regular” guy who values me!

My question is – how do you think I should go about meeting and finding these guys, considering my public status? Online dating is simply not possible, and there are some activities I cannot take part in such as singles events.

AKA Lily

AKA Lily wrote to me! I’m so excited! Now I can say I’m a “celebrity” dating coach!

Teasing you, Lily.

Still, it’s important to recognize that unless you’re a Hollywood celebrity or newscaster who is consistently on TV, the majority of people don’t know you. I’ve worked with a few semi-famous folks who were convinced they were big time, but, in fact, were able to date online in almost-perfect anonymity. Sure, a handful of people recognized them, but for the most part, they were another face in a vast sea of online dating profiles. If you’re an online entrepreneur or self-help author (like me), you are well-known in one arena, but nameless to most folks who don’t consume this kind of information. Pretty much all of my friends would never have heard of me if they didn’t already know me. Few read self-help. Few are internet entrepreneurs. Most are married. And so on.

To your point, Lily, I will acknowledge that the internet has created many levels of fame, and so I must assume that you’re as important as you say you are. 🙂

So here are my three free answers as to how recognizable people (like us!) can create a love life from scratch:

1. You CAN date online – just without a photo.

“Without a photo? Are you crazy? Who’s going to write to me?” Believe me, I’ve heard it all before. But I’m telling you: this is the best strategy around for both celebrities (and really attractive women who are inundated by incoming responses).

Point is that if you won’t date online, won’t go to Meetups or singles events because of your celebrity status, but really want to meet a guy, you have to make things happen.

Write a kick-ass profile, post it on Match or OkCupid, and initiate contact with one new guy a day in a fun, flirty way using the Opinion Opener technique outlined here. He’ll respond, he’ll ask for a photo, you’ll send it to him via Gmail, screen him by phone, and meet in person.

Is it more work than letting hundreds of emails passively roll in due to your beauty? Yes. But you don’t have to deal with all the riff-raff. The only men you’ll talk to are men YOU’VE chosen. That’s a pretty cool and pretty powerful way to experience online dating.

The most beautiful woman I ever dated wrote to me on Match without a photo and I’ve been recommending this advice since my first book in 2004.

This is so much more empowering than the next two options that I’d be extremely disappointed if you didn’t try it.

2. You can hire a matchmaker.

I’m close with a lot of matchmakers, and while I egotistically feel that if you have me, you don’t need them, there are many bright and busy people who prefer to outsource their love lives.

I can’t name any of my favorites here, since I’m friends with so many, but Google is your friend.

Here’s what to expect from matchmakers:

Pro: Someone else finds men, screens men, vets men, introduces men to you. You have higher chance of quality-assurance than if you’re browsing strangers online.

Con: You have no say over your first dates, you only get 10 introductions in a year, it’s a bit of a crap-shoot, and you only meet the kind of guys who are in matchmaker’s databases. Plus, it’s a shit-ton of money – usually $10K+

Whatever you did to become famous – take a fraction of that effort to create love, and you will find love. I truly believe that.

Alternative: Instead of hiring a matchmaker, you can put yourself in a database of a matchmaker who only works with men. The good news is that you’ll end up with Millionaire Matchmaker kind of guys. The bad news is that you’ll end up with Millionaire Matchmaker kind of guys. Joking. Sort of. But you can be a “resource” for a matchmaker for men, you can meet “high-end” guys who are usually looking for someone REALLY young and REALLY pretty, which is why they’re hiring matchmakers.

3. You can put the word out.

Rachel Greenwald wrote a book called Find a Husband After 35 – and it’s pretty much a business plan to get into action. Go to parties. Participate in social networking. Make plans with cool single girlfriends. Say yes to all invitations. Tell your girlfriends (and guy friends) that you’re looking to be set up. Hell, post it on Facebook (if you’re not too embarrassed).

Point is that if you won’t date online, won’t go to Meetups or singles events because of your celebrity status, but really want to meet a guy, you have to make things happen.

Whatever you did to become famous – take a fraction of that effort to create love, and you will find love. I truly believe that.

P.S. I am SO glad I don’t have to date now. It was weird back from 2004-2007 when I had two books, a bunch of TV appearances and a website. I’d be absolutely petrified now with social media and blogs. How can you act natural on a date if anyone can just go online and trash you afterwards? How can you make a move? How can you reject someone? Man, I dodged a bullet!

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Stacey2

    Aghhh this is exactly the reason why I don’t date online anymore. By no means a celebrity, I am widely known in the narrow circle of my industry and since my city has very high concentration of people working in the same industry it pretty much feels like a big village rather than one of the largest metro areas in the country.  Everybody I work with, used to work with, clients, etc. are on tinder or match or what not. Even if most folks out there won’t recognize you, it only takes one to create potentially treacherous situation.

    Additionally, this is a matter of image. While a professional entertainer may have her own consideration (and I can’t imagine how dating online can be good for image), personally I grappled after my divorce with the outpour of advances from former and current colleagues and clients. It’s like the moment the word got out that Stacey is “available” they all come out of the woodwork to ask me out. This is so undesirable, and so difficult to handle. What do you do when your biggest client, who is a married man, suddenly is all over you? This is a lose-lose situation all around. So when I started dating someone (from outside the industry) I made it widely known…

    Evan’s advice on meeting men offline is spot-on. Setups by friends worked best in my opinion. Also, simply going out to where men you want to meet are (eat dinner at a good restaurant every Monday night sitting at the bar, not a table. Trust me that’s where they are). And, of course, hosting your own parties at your home! Pick a theme and do those regularly so that it becomes a “thing” in your circle. You will meet a lot of friends of friends, and that’s ultimately who you want to date anyway.

    1. 1.1
      Adrian

      Stacy2,

       said, “personally I grappled after my divorce with the outpour of advances from former and current colleagues and clients. It’s like the moment the word got out that Stacey is “available” they all come out of the woodwork to ask me out.” 

      I think most men would love to have that problem. (^_^)

      1. 1.1.1
        AllHeart81

        Adrian – I think you may have missed the part where Stacey talked about how she was getting hit on by her married client.

        Also, not all us ladies are like Stacey where men ask us out non-stop or even ever.

        1. Adrian

          AllHeart81,

          I agree with Stacy2 that married people are off limits. I still struggle with, should I accept flirtations and dinner invitations from women who have been separated for over 6 months or not.

           

          I was raised with the knowledge that marriage is sacred, and adultery is bad.

           

          But Stacy was talking about men in general that she deals with, not just the married men. All I was saying was that, most men, would love to have so many different women seeking to date them.

           

          Actually, I think both single men and women would love to be in that position.

  2. 2
    Stacy

    Here’s why the no picture wont work.

    When I was online, I did not want my picture up….far from a celebrity but went through the phase of not wanting ‘everyone I know’ to know I was dating online.

    I got no responses even with a great (trust me, it was GREAT) profile. Of the ones I received and even when I reached out, many guys thought it was a scam because I got responses constantly such as, ‘I dont want to give you my personal email so you can send me anything because it’s fishy you dont have a picture’ (something roughly along those lines) or there would be no response at all. Yes, people are THAT paranoid – believe me.  Plus honestly, it’s way too much work because with no picture, you have to do ALL the work. So yeah, I ended up succumbing to the peer pressure…lol and bam!

    A high end matchmaking service in best IMO.   You get the privacy and discretion that you seek and it’s a win win.

    1. 2.1
      Stacey2

      I am curious if you’ve used a “high-end” match-making service and can share your experience? I spoke to a few of them, and walked away with the impression that paying for these services (as a woman) is reallyj a losing proposition. It appears that what they do is try to recruit men at low-level charity events (we are not talking Met gala here), other places like that and bars even. Why would i pay someone to go out and talk to men, when I can myself go out and talk to those same men? Makes no sense. May be at the very high end, there’s ones that can reach out to truly exclusive crowd that doesn’t mingle with the huddled masses, but honestly I can’t even imagine how much it would cost. Plus, if you were really after meeting such a crowd its way cheaper to simply buy memberships to a couple of exclusive clubs and voila. Am I missing something here?

      1. 2.1.1
        Adrian

        Stacy2,

         

        I also briefly researched, talked to, and met a few different professional matchmaking services and I got the same impression.

         

        The one thing I would disagree with you about is that these services would be a losing proposition for a woman. The impression I got from them was that hiring their services would be a losing proposition for anyone!

         

        It reminded me more of online dating than it did remind me of a friend introducing me to someone or a blind date. The places I interviewed admitted that they even sometimes even try to lure people for you to date from online dating sites.

         

        Once you pay them the large fee, they introduce you and if you don’t find the person attractive or have much in common with them, than oh well, they held up their end of the deal by providing you with the quota of dates they said they would… No refund!

         

        Some places did let you choose from pictures, but again, they only have people that are in their data base, and from the impression that I got, 10% of the people (though I only asked about the male clients), got about 90% of the attention from the opposite sex.

         

        No guarantees, no refunds, no personal control over who you are introduced to, but maybe like you said, the really high end ones could be different

      2. 2.1.2
        Stacy

        I have no personal experience with it but my girlfriend does. First off, it’s VERY, VERY expensive. Secondly, she signed up with the expectation that she would be meeting men that were ‘super exclusive’ since she was looking for someone that fit her profile and was just as successful (oh, and she is VERY successful) and she wasn’t finding that in online dating. Most of the men she met did fit the ‘wealthy’ criteria (she lives in NY) but they were also 15 to 20 years older on average.  Additionally, the matches for her were few and far between (once biweekly or so) which she actually preferred because of her schedule.  Personally, I think it’s a waste unless you are somewhat of a celebrity and do not want your face out there. As a celebrity, you can also demand what the general public cannot afford to demand (think Patti Stanger on Millionaire Matchmaker).

        However, for most of us, I think regular ol online dating is more than fine. Every type of man is online. Personally, since I dont care if he’s wealthy (which honestly, I think that’s why many women join high end dating sites) and just wanted someone (I am dating someone now so this is in the recent past) kind, attractive, local, etc., I had no problems although you have to weed through a lot of frogs and it could get super exhausting.

      3. 2.1.3
        GoWithTheFlow

        I did use a professional matchmaker and it was a waste of money.  I had better luck online or by just putting the word out that i wanted to be set up.

    2. 2.2
      Christine

      I’m not sure if no picture will work either.  I remember Adele said in an interview that she got no responses whatsoever when she was on eharmony, since she didn’t have a photo up.  However, I don’t know what the rest of her profile looked like so who knows if the issue was really no picture, or something else.

      Maybe celebrities are better off with some other method of meeting people besides online dating.  I’ve read stories of certain celebrities who have dabbled in online dating–but then, don’t hear of any who actually get a relationship out of it.

      1. 2.2.1
        Caroline

        I’m as far as one can get from celebrity but I actually had a modicum of success when I had no profile pic up. The first man I actually dated for a moderate amount of time (8 months) after my divorce/neither of us had a pic up. In fact, we met without exchanging pics. Maybe folks in smaller markets are a bit more trusting? I actually had a good bit of emails (maybe it was just the fact I had a new profile)? And honestly my profile pretty much lacked important qualities. I got much better at it with time. I do think I had a good bit of emails from men who also didn’t have a pic up either fir whatever  reason.

        It definitely could be worth the small amount of money and time required as compared to the match making avenue.

        1. Vonnie

          Hi Caroline,

          I’m finally here! It’s wonderful to see you! Chiming in with my experience. I started to create an online dating profile, but without the photo and said, “stay tuned for upcoming photo” since I didn’t have an updated photo. I also let it be known that I really wasn’t ready to date yet and was looking instead for friendship. To my surprise, I got a ton of replies from a wide spectrum and seemingly even from guys out of my state. I thought that I had specifically stated that I was only interested in dating within a certain radius of miles since I want to date locally. Anyway, I got busy and didn’t follow through with any of it. To my astonishment, I learned that it does work not having a photo if you can also write engagingly.

        2. Caroline

          Hi Vonnie! So nice to see you. Tell me why you didn’t follow through? Just testing the waters? I hope you get out there. There’s some wonderful teddy bear of a man waiting for your sweet heart. I can’t wait to hear when you actually get that date! 🙂

           

      2. 2.2.2
        SMC

        I only once subscribed to an OLD website, eHarmony, and I didn’t put a picture up because, in my dating ignorance, I thought I wanted men to like what they read in my profile, not what they saw in my picture.  (I’m embarrassed to even admit such naivete.)  I had quite a few hits and eventually married the one that I met and started dating.  He didn’t post a pic either.  It was a disaster, the details of which I will keep to myself, but I will forever advise posting a picture because I’m pret-t-ty sure that if I had seen his pic, I’d have steered clear.  No, I’m positive.

        1. Adrian

          SMC,

          You want to keep your personal life private, and I respect that.

           

          but I am confused. You say that the guy you ended up marrying did not have a picture, but you still dated him… how would having a picture steer you away from him.

           

          I am assuming that you mean his looks not his personality, because you said you would not have dated him if you would have seen his picture, but doesn’t the same thing happen with people who have pictures? If I used a 0ld picture and showed up to the date looking like an old wrinkled pot belly guy, you still can refuse a second date.

           

          Again, you don’t have to answer, I am just stating that your comment confuses me, and I enjoy your comments.

        2. SMC

          Adrian,

          Thank you for the compliment.  It’s going to sound shallow, and I’ll probably get hammered for it, but it wasn’t because he was unattractive.  (He wasn’t handsome in the classic sense, but he was magnetic.)  No, it was because he was a redhead and my first husband had red hair and I swore I’d never date another redhead.  Ever.  I’m a redhead myself and from personal experience our personalities and temperaments have always collided.  This guy, though, had so much personality and he was loads of fun, which was a pleasant surprise, but the relationship was tumultuous at best.  “Stormy,” in romance novel parlance.  Lots and lots of drama.  Had I known about Evan back then, it would never have progressed.  Had I seen his picture, we would have never gone far enough TO progress. I don’t have a lot of deal breakers, very few in fact, but that’s one of them.  It’s not an appearance thing, it’s a personality thing, and I’ve never had good luck with redheaded men (dated a few “back in the day” as well).

          For the record, I’m of Irish descent, he German – both are very strong personalities.

          Let the hammering begin.  (Be gentle please.)

        3. Emily

          I don’t like red haired men, either. I am also not big on blonde men. I am a blond myself, and I think the two of us together would look like Donnie and Marie. But back when I was in college, the man I was most attracted to and had the best sex with was a blonde, so you never know. I met him in person through friends. I probably won’t have bypassed him on a dating site.

        4. Marie

          Wait, so you found each others’ profiles online, met, dated, got married–all without knowing what he looked like?

        5. SMC

          @ Marie:

          No, we met in person after going the route that eHarmony makes you go through: a series of introductory first steps, including first answering multiple-choice questions, then answering pre-determined questions with your own answers, then emails, then the in-person meeting.  It’s a rather drawn-out process which gives both parties plenty of time to back out before the first meeting.  He had a terrific profile, so when we finally did meet at Starbucks I was already very intrigued.  I distinctly remember that brief flash of disappointment when I first saw him, but I just thought that was me being shallow.  I flat out ignored my instincts and charged right on ahead. to my ultimate regret years later.

          Never again will I go the picture-less route if I choose to OLD again.

        6. SMC

          @ Emily:

          It’s funny, I can’t remember but one time I dated a blond guy a gozillion years ago.  I really liked him too, but it didn’t go past a single date (all my fault). Nearly all of my relationships have been with dark haired guys with either blue or green eyes.    Not by conscious choice, it’s just worked out that way.

        7. Stacy

          SMC,

          No hammering here because I completely understand the importance of physical attraction. However, are you saying that your relationship failed with the eHarmony guy years later BECAUSE you looked past physical attraction at first and it didnt end up working out because he did nothing for you physically and you realized that later?  Just curious.

        8. SMC

          Stacy,

          With respect to physical attraction, he wasn’t handsome in the classic sense but he was very charismatic, very fit (body builder physique), very VERY alpha male, and a whole lot of fun.  But it was, or should have been, doomed from the very first date (not counting the intro coffee date) because we got into an argument about women’s clothing: he, calling a woman in the restaurant who was wearing a halter dress “slutty,” me, saying it was an elegant evening dress.  And we got into a bit of an argument, though we got through it and talked about everything under the sun for so long that they started closing the restaurant, at which point we finally left.  And that pretty much set the tone for our on again/off again relationship – clothing, appearance, etc.  I can’t begin to tell you how many fights we had about my clothes.  I persevered because there was so much else that was fun, though, and he knew how to show a gal a good time, AND because I was in that delusion we are fed from birth that relationships “take work.”  The moment I read/heard Evan say otherwise was when the heavens opened and the angels sang.  I just wish I had known about him back then, 10 years ago.

          He wasn’t handsome per se, or at least not to me (others said he was), but there was a lot more going for him than that.  (BTW, he’s a good guy and we’re amicable and we make good friends, just not good spouses.)

           

        9. SMC

          Stacy,

          I meant to add that the sex was fantastic, so the whole relationship was well-rounded in that regard, but it was a disastrous clash of two red-headed personalities.  And THAT’S why I’ll never consider someone who doesn’t submit a picture first.

        10. Stacy

          Oooh, now I understand.

          Wow, this exact thing has happened to me where you look past something in the beginning but then it come back to bite in the rear. I think we sometimes get so hung up on ‘chemistry’ at first that we look past the flaws we originally could not deal with.

          I think most of us have been there.

      3. 2.2.3
        Joe

        You “the no-picture thing won’t work” folks are kind of missing Evan’s point (well, his suggestion).  Yes, I agree with you if Lily just posts a profile with no photo, she won’t get (m)any responses.

        But that’s not what Evan suggested to her–he suggested she post a no-pic profile but also contact one guy per day, offering to send him her picture.  I know many of you ladies prefer to be passive (can’t recall whether or not Evan recommends this or not), but Lily would need to be proactive.

        If she’s an attractive celeb, I can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be at least a few men who’d be interested in dating her, once they’d scoped out her pic.

        1. Stacy

          Joe,

          I agree that it would work better the way you outlined.  But I still think that most high quality men with options wont even bother to follow up because men are super visual and as soon as they see her profile with no picture, would probably not bother to go through the process of sending her their personal email addresses offline on the chance she will send a picture. In MY experience, in the short time I had no picture when I was online dating, I was met with much suspicion even when offering to send.   Then again, this is a reasonable risk Lilly may have to take.

        2. Joe

          I think that even if Tracy’s “Private Mode” suggestion doesn’t work, that a line like “I’m a bit of a minor celebrity, so I don’t put my photos in my profile, but I’d be interested in meeting you, so I’d like to e-mail you some photos.  If, after seeing them, you decide you’re not interested in meeting, that’s fine.” would be well-received.

      4. 2.2.4
        Kyra

        When I include photos in my profile I receive two types of comments:  1) Short, poorly written one-liners from men of lesser educational level that only say how “pretty” I am or that they find me and 2) Grossly inappropriate messages that include comments about how pleasing they find my looks, my body parts, how aroused my body/body parts make them or offers for sexual acts.

        When I remove photos I receive MORE responses in general and all of them are well written, thoughtful responses and questions to what is written in my profile.

        Three years ago when attempting online dating, I met two very good looking, intelligent, affluent, age appropriate men I dated, one for several months without a photo.

        I agree that if photos are only going to attract a certain, undesired response one shouldn’t post them.

        1. Adrian

          But isn’t messaging a person without a photo, just like messaging a person with “only” a photo and nothing written in their profile?

           

          I understand why women (at least according to evan) would not want to put up their picture, but what does it say about the men who contact these kind of women?

           

          What happens if you message someone, talk for days building a connection, and then once he or she sees your face, their communication fizzles because of the lack of attraction?

          …   …   …

          I’m starting to see more and more why Evan has to constantly remind us not to look at our own person successes and look at trends as a whole when deciding what actions to take with dating.

           

          For every man or woman who had something successful happen because of a certain strategy, there are literally thousands who have tried that method and failed.

        2. Kyra

          @Adrian, I don’t believe so, especially if a profile is equisitely written, which mine is.  My words convey more about me than a snapshot can. In fact, only a picture of me would  work AGAINST me because they invite only sexually focused messages.

          I don’t know about other women, but men who message me when I have no photo are more intelligent, more insightful, more respectful, more capable of critical thinking and more capable of intellectual discussion that those that message when I do have a photo. From my experience, men who contact me when I have no photo are looking for more and see a woman of promise from her words, not the temporary sexua arousal they received when they saw her photo (and thought it best to voice this in a message to her).

          I make a habit of sending a link to a few photos immediately if I see promise in the first one-two messages. I’d never talk for days to someone without revealing what I look like. If they choose to cut conversation due to my body type/race/ethnicity after seeing my photos, no skin off my back… We both move on.

          Removing photo may not work for everyone, but I know for me it works. The class of men and message greatly improves and gross, disgusting messages about sex and my body stop. If a woman believes her photos may invite a regular type of message she feels undesirable and disappointing (whether that be overly sexual, recognizable as a celebrity, etc) I say go for it, but you have to have an AMAZING profile to counter that and receive interest.

        3. Adrian

          Kyra,

          Thanks for your reply.

          In your opinion, would one of these men keep the momentum if the women was below average in looks, or noticeably overweight?

           

          She has a great profile, two or three fun emails in, and then you send him a picture. Do you think the average guy would still want to seriously date based off of a great profile and not a picture?

           

          I ask this because I remember years ago, whenever I was over a friends house in high school and they were using  some form of social media (I never used any social media myself, but I observe others), 9 out of the 10 girls (maybe women are different when it comes to this), literally had a message that said something like “don’t contact me without a picture or you won’t get a reply”.

           

          So my thinking at the time was, if girls are this adamant about pictures, then I knew the guys had to be just as brutal if not more so.

           

          Looks are an important part of attraction, I say this assuming that you yourself are an attractive woman, so maybe you have never had the reaction of a man being disappointed in how you looked.

          …   …   …

          Even as I write my question, I acknowledge that it shows how little faith I have in people forgoing shallowness for quality.

        4. Kyra

          Adrian,

          My pleasure. I know this is a habit most folks will find odd and unsuccessful.

          You ask, ” would one of these men keep the momentum if the women was below average in looks, or noticeably overweight?She has a great profile, two or three fun emails in, and then you send him a picture. Do you think the average guy would still want to seriously date based off of a great profile and not a picture??”

          My answer is: it depends.

          Men are very visual. They want to see what a woman looks like before they message and desire to date someone they feel matches an ideal physical level of beauty. It’s really a game of chance to do online dating without photos in your profile. You’d have to have an amazing profile and be above average attractive (so men are pleasantly surprised when you do send) for it to work.

          I’m above average attractive. “Gorgeous, stunning, beautiful, fine, striking, etc.” I’ve heard and been called it all. I’m very aware I am because I look at myself in the mirror every day and am told often. So, when I send  photo, I know maybe 8 out of 10 men will be pleased with my looks.

          However, I am also Black and full-figured.  I know, despite how attractive I may be facially, these are deal breakers for some men.

          I also have the issue of having looks and a figure that, I’ve heard regularly, “makes men think sex.” So, I struggle with my photos attracting men who respond to me sexually and send grossly inappropriate and overly sexual messages. So, my inbox is either completely silent or filled with disgusting messages about how attractive and sexy I am and all the sexual things they’d like to “do” to me. It’s always been such a conundrum for me in online dating. Men highly approving of my looks, but only for sexual reasons vs. men disappointed in my looks because I don’t fit their ideal racially or body type wise.

          We all experience rejection. It’s just life. We can’t be perfect for everyone.

          Removing my photos, I’ve had to seriously accept a man may very well want to end communication upon seeing them. But, as stated, removing them does increase messages overall for me, personally (a way I’ve learned to combat the 82% bias in online dating against Black women) and improve the content of the messages (no more gross, nasty messages from dirty men). I just had to choose the path that I feel works best for me.

          You also have to take into account your comment that people — for whatever reasons — are, for the most part, shallow. I was messaged by a lovely, funny, engaging White man a few weeks back who was considerably overweight/obese and below average attractive. From his profile and response I was very interested in him and he so in me from my profile. When I sent him photos, he immediately stopped messaging. Perhaps he did not want to date a Black woman. Perhaps he wanted a slim woman. And, I laughed because that’s all I can do. Even though he was obese and below average in looks (some would go so far as to say he was unattractive. No shade, he was, though a very engaging and attractive man by personality) I didn’t fit his ideal of what suited him physically.

          That’s just how it works sometimes.

          But, as I stated before, I did meet two very handsome, fit, attractive, affluent, respectful men (who happened to be White) I dated a few years ago using the no photo method, Blackness, full figuredness and all. They seriously dated me and didn’t push for any “funny stuff” that proved the sought anything less than exclusive dating from me.

          People are going to find fault in your looks, your weight, your height, your hair, your race, your body, anything they can find, especially in a visually shallow society as we live in now. But, every once in a while, that above average man — that truly is interested in a woman’s mind and abilities and how she makes him feel — will find you from the words in your profile. And, when you send your photos, you can only hope it will be the icing on the cake of the woman he’s already gotten to know.

          So, would a man lose momentum or stop contacting someone once they see photos and find them to be below average and noticeably overweight? Yes. But, I’ve had men see my photos on my profile when I include them, message me incessantly, push for a date, tell me I’m their “ideal” and the cat’s meow who went *POOF* too.

          Nothing is guaranteed in dating, unfortunately. I know I’m a woman of quality and deserve more than *silence because of my race* or *gross sexual messages* so, I had to create my own online dating path to make that happen which was remove my photos. It works for some, but I’m aware it won’t work for all.

  3. 3
    Adrian

    Lily a.k.a,

     

    For what it’s worth, I agree with Evan, unless you are a top A-list actress, then I don’t think online dating will too greatly affect your career.

     

    Evan, this post was perfectly timed for me, thanks. (^_^)

     

    I’m currently in a similar situation (no I’m not a celebrity), last week I was introduced to, and had the chance to hangout with, flirted back and forth with, exchange numbers with, and even got a date request YES from; a woman, who it turned out was a pretty famous up and coming celebrity. I would not have even known that she was famous if not for the woman who introduced us (played matchmaker), had not told me afterwards.

     

    So I googled her, and she is actually really big in the media world, but as Evan said, only for those who know her, if you haven’t seen anything she was in, then she would be just another pretty face-her name is actually more famous than her face is in my opinion. When she and I were out, no one stopped and stared in awe, no one walked up to us asking for her autograph, no paparazzi chased us down. She is of course attractive, but (like all celebrities in my opinion without the glam of professional photo and makeup artist) she was not so beautiful that men would just stop and stare as she walked down the street.

     

    Again, I don’t know how famous you are a.k.a Lily, but if you are not an instantly recognizable A-lister than you will be fine online dating, your only REAL problem will be people thinking your profile is fake because your pictures will be of a higher grade professionally, and when or if guys google you, they will see the celebrity and not you (there are a lot of scammers using celebrity and model photos online to create fake profiles).

     

    As far as the minor celebrity girl I am currently courting, I personally think that if I would have known that she was so well known in certain circles and the media, I probably wouldn’t have had the courage to ask her out; because like you she can easily date very attractive hollywood hunks, I have seen pictures of her hanging out with many famous A-list actors and singers. She has even spoke at many national events along with dozens of  high ranking politicians and the vice president!!!

    …   …   …                                                                                                                                             …   …   …

    A.k.a Lily, if you do ever reply to this post, I have one question for you. The minor celebrity that I am courting is really trying to increase her notoriety; her dream is to become a full-fledged A-lister, yet I am somewhat apprehensive of this. With all the stories you hear of celebrities cheating, or being invited to parties surrounded by other famous and gorgeous people (the type of men that thousands of women fantasy about), I can not say that I would not feel intimidated, not jealous, just intimidated.

     

    So, Lily a.k.a, since you say you are open to the idea of dating a non-celebrity, what advise, if any do you have for me?

    1. 3.1
      Joe

      As far as the “professional photos” issue, if Lily wants to appear less like a fake profile, she always has the option of using casual photos.

    2. 3.2
      AKA Lily

      Hi, this is indeed Lily, EMK can see my email address matches the one I wrote to him from 🙂  Thanks EMK for answering my question, it’s most helpful!

      Adrian, you asked for my two cents so I will do my best. I will be blunt with you, for a lot of celebrities, being with other celebrities seems ideal because it raises your status and levels of attention, gets you work and other things like that.  Even if logically you know that this is not really the full story or the most firm foundation to build a relationship upon, it’s a strong pull and an ego boost to show you’re dating so and so.
      So why am I not dating that celeb ass I mentioned or others before him? Because the shine of these superficial elements goes away real fast.  When I was younger I might have put up with them treating me less than I’m worth, but not now.
      I think if your gf is mature enough and has enough experience with these ‘good on paper but terrible boyfriend material’ guys, she will see right past that sheen of dating a celebrity and value you for you. If I was in a great relationship with a non-famous guy, I can honestly say there’s no reason for him to be intimidated by  celeb guys.  I have had enough experiences and can see clearly and logically now, to get past that instinct and know what matters.

      1. 3.2.1
        Adrian

        Lily,

        Thank you. She is very passionate about making it big. She has dated raising actors like herself, but no one really famous, or their childen like you.

         

        I will take your advice and just have faith in her, and confidence in myself.

      2. 3.2.2
        jonny

        You could always use a photo of a female friend (with her permission) or maybe a photo of you in a group of women.  If you are an attractive woman, why even resort to online dating.  It should be easy to meet men in real life or through social events.  If you do use match or tinder, you can usually find men who share their instagram/twitter/FB accounts, so you can DM them through other social media outside of match.  Lots of celebs talk to fans through social media.

  4. 4
    Robinette

    Not a celebrity here…but when I first started dating, I had no photo because I was newly separated, shy, and it felt strange.  I had a very good profile and offered to email photos.  This worked reasonably well, and I think it attracted some very genuine people.  But people are very suspicious about why you don’t have a photo, and it really doesn’t attract the number of “qualified candidates” you get otherwise.  And I think you might attract more ‘unavailables’.

    Coincidentally, the profile did immediately get attention from a “celebrity” who on-line dated with no photos.  I actually was suspicious at first, but I proceeded cautiously and went out with him, and consequently had a long term relationship with him.  We were ultimately unsuitable as I found him to be too unavailable, both logistically and emotionally.  He was a good person, just a poor relationship partner.  I gained more confidence in myself during the relationship, had fun and just enjoyed it.  He shared with me that he was too embarrassed to put up photos, and that on-line dating didn’t yield many great potential partners for him.  He had mostly gone out with people he’d been set up with.

    With the confidence that I gained over time, I posted photos, dated as Evan suggests, and ultimately did much better with photos than without them.   My current significant other is a great match.

  5. 5
    Tracy

    Match.com has a setting called “Private Mode”. You control who can see your profile and picture. The only men you’ll talk to are the men you’ve chosen. The only men who can see your photo are men who you want to see your photo. I think that would be a very good option for “Lily.”

    1. 5.1
      JB

      I myself use “private mode” on Match exclusively but just realize that the first thing most intelligent online daters like me do when they see a profile they like is Google “image search” every pic in it to see what other sites like LinkedIn etc…. might have any of those pics to find out who you are. Then when I do find out I see their Facebook pages and the other 20 photo’s of what they really look like thus saving me much energy, time, and money. OkCupid which of course is owned by Match now has “Incognito mode” as well for a fee. Of course POF has always had it for free.

      The point here is do not ever put photo’s in your profile that are on ANY other website if you want to maintain privacy. I even Google my own from time to time to make sure they’re nowhere else to be seen. If Tracy does that it might work ok depending on how recognizable her face actually is.

  6. 6
    john

    I emailed a woman who’s profile picture was vague. I couldn’t exactly figure out how she looked. Eventually I asked for a clear photo and she refused. She said she was a local celebrity and was afraid I’d recognize her. I politely told her good luck on her search and moved on. I couldn’t deal with her extreme fear of being recognized. I imagined that when I took her out in public she would don her Jackie O glasses and tell the waiter, “no autographs please.” By the way, I do not look at a woman’s profile with no photo. If it is artfully unclear, I might shoot her an email. Remember that men are extremely visual and a great photo is your best bet.

  7. 7
    Zoe

    I never reply to men who dont post a picture.In the past, when on occasion I was curious about a guy due to his profile content and I replied asking for a photo, almost without a exception it immediately became clear the anonymous one was quite unattractive and I would not consider dating him at all.At this day and age it is inconceivable to not include a current clear photo.Almost without exclusion the anononymous ones are hiding something, be it their age, weight etc… B real b honest and transparent or do not post a profile! The interested anonymous person has seen my profile including pic and other info and they are choosing to be phantoms.interestingly enough when I have asked for a photo or more info many lashed out and were offended at my not trusting them.

    Get use dto it.2016 !

  8. 8
    Emily

    There are dating platforms that are less photo forward.

    If you’re in a major city, I recommend Siren, the feminist dating app based in Seattle!

    Siren is based on conversation. Instead of swiping through photos, you read people’s answers to questions and get to know their personality first. Photos may be optionally blurry until you decide to reveal who you are to someone. Could be very useful for people who want some degree of anonymity, but not the creepiness that anonymity fosters.

    1. 8.1
      Adrian

      Emily,

       

      Since you are more human than me (^_^)

       

      If I read someone’s profile and it blew me away, but I only could see a blurred outlined picture, I would be at the most hopeful and attracted, at the very least, very interested.

       

      Yet, I will not lie and say that (as Zoe described) if that person was unattractive it would kill it for me. If they were average or slightly below average, I would still try to communicate, but zero attraction even with a mind blowing profile, I wouldn’t.

       

      This is why I say you are more human or at least a better human than me, because the idea of that site is praiseworthy but I don’t think it is practical in our visual, beauty based society.

       

      Someone like the original poster would excel on that app though.

      1. 8.1.1
        Christine

        I don’t think that makes you less human, just human.  With zero attraction, a person you like (but don’t want to sleep with) is just a friend!

        Well, in the off chance that they are more attractive in person than they are in photos (if/when they’re unblurred), it might be worth one meeting if they seem fantastic otherwise.  Me and my guy both look much better in real life than in photos–there are people out there who are attractive, without necessarily being photogenic.  I’ve also met many other people who are much better looking in real life than in photos.

        On the other hand, I also have heard stories from my LA friends who say some models and actresses who look stunning in their photos look downright freaky in real life.  You never know.

        However, then if you still have zero attraction in person, even with a mind blowing profile and personality–I say move on at that point!

        1. Adrian

          Christine,

           

          You are sweet! (^_^)

           

          I love gathering all the different opinions and viewpoints, looking for patterns, consistency and inconsistency.

           

          This question like another that Emily caused me to ask (she always brings them out of me) with the post about sexual likes and dislikes, all come from past experiences.

           

          Most times, I am the one who feels no attraction or am disappointed in bed, or maybe turned off because of something about their moral character, either way, I’m always guilted into staying longer than I should have.

           

          You know how it is Christine, you are considered shallow, selfish, or a manipulator playing with that person’s feelings because you don’t feel attraction for them but they feel attraction for you. Then I get the “I thought you were different” or some other line, which causes me to stay longer, trying to find some level of attraction, and then I get the “looks aren’t important, how they are on the inside speech.”

           

          I truly love all that I have learned from the many female commenters on this site, it is good to see that what I have experienced in the past is not all women, so I must not become the type of person who says all women…

           

           

      2. 8.1.2
        Christine

        Adrian, for all it’s worth–I say move on as soon as you know that you have no attraction for someone. I have never actually seen (at least in real life) any happy couple who fell in love with zero attraction.

        I know, it’s a bit of “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”.  On one hand, you get “it’s the inside that matters” and “you should give me more of a chance” if you try to cut out early.  On the other hand, if you stick it out longer, then later on, that same girl will say (or at least think) “why did you waste so much of my time?” (as some of my friends have told certain guys who were never attracted to them at all, yet still tried to stick it out).

        Between the two options, I think bailing out earlier might be the lesser of the evils.  No matter when you bail, there will be hurt feelings.  However, it might be better to do it earlier, to at least avoid wasting her time, and at least free her up to find someone else who is attracted to her (so would make a better partner).  Not to mention, if you do it early, then there are relatively less emotional attachments that have been formed and less sunken costs (a few dates vs. a few months).  My own two cents for what it’s worth!

         

        1. Stacy

          Christine,

          I think the answer is a bit clearer when you have ZERO attraction. The problem is, some of us have been attracted somewhat to a good person, but not sure if it’s enough of an attraction to last a ‘lifetime’….

          I have struggled with this. In other words, I wont date someone I have zero attraction to (obviously?)…but what about the man who treats me like gold, but I am physically attracted to him (on a scale of 1 to 10) only on level 4? What makes the problem even more difficult is when you KNOW for a fact you can attract someone much more higher on the scale (after all, it happens all the time?) but you know that someone with this type of personality and compatibility (the 4) comes around probably once or twice in a lifetime.  I think these are the types of issues that make the attraction factor a bit complicated.

        2. Christine

          Stacy I see what you mean about that middle grey area–I was only talking about zero attraction since that’s what Adrian had been speaking of.  For me personally, I’m not sure a 4 level would be high enough.  Evan always speaks about 10 compatibility with a 7 level of attraction and I really think that’s probably the best way to go about it.

  9. 9
    Stacy2

    I would also add that one of the big reasons for not showing one’s photo, after being unattractive, is being married.

  10. 10
    Adrian

    Here is something that I wonder about, maybe someone can answer this.

     

    Evan recommends using professional pictures for your dating profile, but I have heard so many women comment that they don’t like when guys use professional photos because it makes them appear that they are trying too hard.

     

    Maybe it is a gender thing, since I have never heard of a guy complaining that a woman looks desperate or like they are trying too hard because they have professional photos.

     

    Also, remember that one kid who use to comment, Gabri’el, he said he use to model, if someone like that used a professional picture, would women avoid him, believing  his profile was a fake?

     

    If a.k.a Lily did this, I think she could have the same problem.

    1. 10.1
      SMC

      Perhaps part of Evan’s reason for recommending professional photos is because most people are not photographers and don’t realize what makes a good photo, i.e. focal point, balance, exposure, etc., and while I don’t personally think a professional photo would convey need or desperation, “action” photos would be more appealing to me.  A guy holding his fishing catch wearing a fishing vest might do it for me (I love fish, both catching and eating it), or a cowboy hat, etc. because in that photo the viewer would already get a sense of what that person’s interests or personality might be, plus people look more natural in their play environments.  I have no idea what “action” picture I would use, though.  Maybe with desserts spread out on the table in front of me wearing a cowboy hat (instead of a chef’s hat).  I love to bake and country dance.  🙂

      1. 10.1.1
        Caroline

        @SMC-I know one of my guy’s buddy dates online. He was really turned off by the pro photos and especially the glamour photos. But then I don’t live in Cali or NYC. We’re country bumpkins compared to the rest of the US. I actually did well with the dreaded “selfies” and photos taken by friends and family outdoors. I think why the “selfie” may have worked for me was that each time I got dressed up for a date; I’d take just a cropped head shot of myself and post it as my profile pic. I think just the continual change brought me to the first searched because I had updated my profile but may have appealed to more men because it seemed “new”.

        @Christine-I think being upfront and moving on quicker is a good move also. It’s not fair to the person you’re dating and also not to yourself. While I’m all for giving a guy a second date or even third if I’m unsure if I’m attracted; it approaches a point where it might be interpreted badly and causing ill will if you drag it out. I feel I know myself well enough to quit when it’s evident. I’ve developed intense attraction for a guy after my initial response was just lets see. I wonder if its different for others; especially men. No judgement here; if a guy knows what he wants I respect that:)

    2. 10.2
      Stacy

      Honestly Adrian,

      I disagree with Evan on this.  I think professional photos tend to have that ‘fake’, overly polished look like you’re trying too hard and it’s a turnoff for me. The only time it works is if you add other ‘natural’ pictures ALONG with the pro shots. I think this approach will work well if you are clearly not photogenic. However, I think it best that you have some pictures in a natural environment.

      -Stacy

      1. 10.2.1
        SMC

        Agreed, Stacy.  I want to see the person in “real life” photos.

  11. 11
    Ren

    I know of an actress, Essence Atkins, who met her husband on an online dating site while she was acting on shows and in movies on TV. If you Google it, you’ll see articles about it. I knew who she was when I read about it, but, like Evan says, she’s not at all a big-time celeb that every guy would recognize.

    As for not using a pic, it’s possible to get responses. But there is more suspicion, usually that I’m a man and not a woman. I also just think online dating is hard, very hard to meet someone who is looking for something real or someone who is not just shallow. As someone who used to be somewhat involved in the music industry, though, I definitely feel that if I were a celeb I would not want to date anyone in Hollywood or sports (and don’t want to now as a regular person, but I have more options as a regular person). It’s hard to eliminate people you’re always around, but I also think that’s why a lot of celebs go with people who are in the industry but more behind the scenes like music producers and guys who work on the set but not as actors. But actors, musicians and athletes? Absolutely not, I’d never date them, and a lot of actresses and actors have sworn off these people, as well.

  12. 12
    jonny

    Just wear sunglasses in your photos or a side profile.  Some photo is better than no photo at all.  Besides match, there are a lot of celebs on Tinder who just use it for browsing.  Athletes seem to hook up with groupies using Twitter and Facebook.  If you’re a celebrity, groupies might seek out a famous female or famous man to hook up with.

  13. 13
    Beenthere

    Matchmakers will match you with much older men who don’t have a lot going for them, many of them will also think you’re a hooker, all will want to nail you on the first date and a few of them will already be married, the screening process doesn’t generally extend beyond checking their credit, don’t give them a cent unless they’ve sent you at least one promising candidate first and check online reviews.

    No pic can work sometimes on some sites, guys are starting to smarten up to the fact attractive women use this stratergy (along with listing your age as 99 on a full profile with pics and doing the initial contacting, no one is looking for a 99yo so they don’t see you till you interact with them) and I have got mail to that effect. But they are in the minority and mostly the profile will not be viewed and the mail won’t be opened, you’d be better off hiring a social media expert to manage your online accounts (you’ll need multiple each written to suit the sites different audience and features) as it’s very time consuming. You can use the private gallery feature to pick who you show your photos to and you can use the vip membership feature as well where you can pick who can see your profile if the sites have them. If you’re over 35-40 none of it will matter a damn, they won’t see your profile in the first place because men who are appealing in online terms won’t be looking for someone that age, if they do they will be quick to flake on you if a younger woman returns their message. It won’t matter who you are, age is kryptonite to common sense online, up to a point you can get away with lying about your age if it’s only a few years to get you back into the under 40 range.

    Unless you are very ordinary seeking very ordinary and are prepared to put up with guys chasing women out of their league before coming back to you with their tail between their legs it’s a wasteland after that, as it is anyone above average attractive doesn’t do well online due to a lack of other very attractive people to choose from, they don’t pop up often and they don’t stay long.

    Tinder has verified celebrity accounts, some are on for dating and some are on in a professional capacity as part of a social media campaign. Personally I find anyone attracted to that is not likely to be a good candidate (will stereotype you and could have an agenda) but you could conceivably score an invite to something via the groups feature.

    Personally offline is the best for familiar faces, you could suppliment it with online but a public photo is a bad idea, I used to do mens magazines and had to completely change my appearance for my photos, I still got asked “where do I know you from you look familiar” (instant block), one of my colleagues had a taxi driver pull out a copy of the issue she was in and ask her to sign it, the issue was 10 years old and he had it sitting right there in his cab. Don’t underestimate the reach of even the most neiche publicity and people’s ability to keep a poker face, a juicy bit of gossip spreads fast and the effect enters the room before you do. Sorry Evan but online and the singles scene isn’t geared toward people who are above average or have a public image to protect or that can be used against them. The best bet really is offline going and doing something new you might enjoy and generally getting out and meeting socially without dating in the front of your mind. If you’re attractive or known people come to you, if you’re somewhere with other attractive people or where they don’t know who you are yet even better, it gives you a chance to get to know each other before that cones into play.

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