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Over the years, I’ve learnt—albeit slowly, it seems—about many mistakes I’ve been doing. Not paying attention to women’s body language, not trying to go in for the first kiss, it’s a long laundry list of things I go “Crap, I should have done that!”.
But despite my efforts (and the assistance of friends over the years), I have never had a girlfriend or sex. As of recently, I try to find women between 25 and 42 years old. I’ve read a lot about what you’ve said about “Ineffective versus Effective” and “What I want in a woman versus what she wants about me”, and I guess I’m still a bit confused. I think that my situation (and that of other virgins in my predicament) is a little different in some ways, but also the same in others when it comes to relationships, sex, et cetera. I am an only child, and my parents are kind of old fashioned and raised me as such. I don’t usually try to go for/get a kiss on the first date, and I don’t try to force sex to happen right away.
Friends and coworkers alike have given me a huge span of advice and suggestions, from “sowing my oats” with a professional escort/hooking up with an “easy” college girl, to being persistent and trying to find that “special one”.
Eventually, I want to buy one or several of your products, but anything constructive you can offer me would be highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mo
Dear Mo,
As a dating coach for women, I rarely run letters from men. But maybe I should do it a little more, considering that 54% of my readers (according to Google Analytics) are actually men. And if you’ve been reading for a while, Mo, you know that I do two things with each reader question:
- 10% of the time, I’ll provide validation that the reader is 100% correct in her assessment of things. That generally means saying something like, “He’s a jerk. Dump him. Move on.” The problem with these questions is that they’re boring. There’s only so many ways to say, “You’re right!” which make for a boring advice column. Which is why most of my advice veers towards…
- 90% of the time, I’ll let you know what you’re doing/thinking/believing that is not getting you results. Either that means shining the light into a blind spot and giving you an idea of what you can’t see, or it’s telling you how to conduct yourself differently to get different results.
In your situation, I have a feeling you already know everything you have to do. You’re just not doing it.
I have a feeling you already know everything you have to do. You’re just not doing it.
That makes giving unique advice a little bit tricky, you know?
Now, I’ve written about this stuff before.
I’ve talked about how passionate, competent guys get the girl.
I’ve talked about how nice guys (with balls) finish first.
I’ve talked about how women should value nice guys a little more.
But it doesn’t really matter what I say. Telling women to value nice guys more is like telling men to value older, heavier women more. People want what people want. At the end of the day, we all have two choices: stay exactly as we are right now and wait until we find someone who appreciates us, or adjust who we are to become appealing to more people.
You’ve had a lot of time to think about this, my friend. You’ve gone over the laundry list of things you could have done differently over the years. You may have valid excuses in how you were raised, but it really doesn’t matter if you were raised old-fashioned. You’ve been on your own for 20 years now.
So what constructive advice can I offer you? Should you lose your virginity with a pro just to get it over with? Should you hold out for someone special? I would suggest no to both options.
In fact, the biggest problem you have surrounding sex is that you’re making WAY too big a deal about it. Apart from the fact that sex can create babies, in 99% of cases, it’s just a fun thing that people do when they’re attracted to each other. By not carrying yourself with confidence, not asking out more women, not making the first move, not pushing to go further, and not seeing yourself as a sexual being, you’ve projected yourself to women as safe and asexual as well. It’s time to reboot and start from scratch.
We all have two choices: stay exactly as we are right now and wait until we find someone who appreciates us, or adjust who we are to become appealing to more people.
You don’t need to have sex tomorrow.
You don’t need to have sex with someone you love.
You need to make up for lost time and catch up with what everyone else was doing from 14-21.
I rarely plug my own products on here, but you should begin with Finding the One Online, my online dating audio series. It’s much easier and more accessible (for nice guys) than going to pubs to hit on hot 27-year-olds. Despite the sales page being written for women, Finding the One Online is actually a unisex product, created in 2008 for both men AND women. It’s helped thousands of people choose a dating site, write better profiles, post better photos, understand the opposite sex, and learn to move from email to the phone to the real life date.
Instead of skipping steps and worrying about getting naked with someone, you just need the experience of being around women, learning to act on your attraction, and demystifying this sex thing that you’ve built up in your mind. One step at a time. Go on a bunch of dates. Build up your dating skills. Get more confidence. And when it’s time for you to have sex, you’ll be as ready as any man ever was.
Take a number bro, women are fighting for the “top dog”.
LMAO.
Very true:)
That’s accurate.
When I was in my mid-20s, I thought that I’d never ever meet a woman who would go out with a self-proclaimed nerd who liked playing video games and writing about them for a living. But I did eventually meet someone and now, I’m happily married with a daughter along the way.
My wife wasn’t the first person I had asked to go out with. In the past, I had asked out other women but they didn’t reciprocate my feelings. When I was 28, I finally had my first girlfriend but the relationship only lasted a few months. However, that brief courtship did teach me some important lessons about the importance of compatibility. So a few months later, I rekindled a friendship with a woman who shared my interests. She would later become my wife two years later.
I once asked my wife why she had agreed to go out with me and she said that she liked how I had asked her out instead of beating around the bush. She confessed to being a little old-fashioned, so she wanted me to make the first move (I confessed to her in person on Valentine’s Day). Plus we got along with each other pretty well and shared the same values. Also, I was apparently her type. 😉
Speaking as someone who only lost his virginity after marriage at the age of 30, I can honestly say that sex is (as you may have heard from countless others) quite overrated. Yes, it’s a great experience when you do it with someone you love and cherish, but the first time is always crap. My wife is more religious than I am, so she wanted to wait until marriage before we actually had sex. For me, I didn’t mind waiting until we were married. But we did engage in heavy petting during our relationship, which only took place after several months of courtship.
Since both me and my wife were both virgins, our expectations for our very first sexual intercourse were ridiculously high. We didn’t know how to please each other right, and we were also a little bit scared. So our first time ended with both of us tired at the end of the session, neither party able to orgasm. But once we became more comfortable with each other’s bodies and threw away our unreasonable expectations, we started to enjoy sex. There are good days (we get to both experience orgasms) and bad days (I’m too tired to ejaculate, or she’s not wet enough and sex is starting to hurt for her). Even when we don’t orgasm during sex, we still cuddle and enjoy each other’s presence.
So go out and meet other people. Have fun. Don’t think of sex or marriage as the end goal. Like Evan said, when you finally meet someone whom you’re comfortable to have sex with, you’ll be ready.
Anonymous,
You’ve described exactly the kind of experience I’m hoping to have with my own courtship and marriage (when they eventually happen). I differ from you only in that I know that the first time will be very awkward, probably a bit painful for me and not very pleasurable for either of us. Regardless, I hope things turn out for me exactly the way you’ve described. I couldn’t wish for a better outcome than to have a loving partner who is willing to wait and loves me enough that he might actually want to wait as well.
Your experience really comforts me. I’m in the exact position you were before you had your first girlfriend. I’m 27 and I have tryed so much, but haven’t had neither a relationship nor even sex.
Is really good to know that somebody has felt the same way I am right now, and the fact that you found a girl that is so compatible with you, gives me real hope.
Thanks for your story, I was really needing something like that.
I am a lot like you. I experienced almost all that you did.
1. About sex being overrated–I think thats the way people feel who are having sex regularly feel. After a while it’s not so special. If you go back to not having it, it again becomes a burning desire and a constant source of doubt that you are good enough.
2. Despite awkwardness even the first time was good for me, by the end.
3. I thought we had a pretty good marriage for some years, but when we became parents my wife devoted herself totally to being a mother, the marriage fell apart, and I’m basically back where I started but 20 years older. And the things she didn’t like about me were the same issues that kept me from women all along–depression manifesting as lack of confidence, self anger, lack of success at work. I think she overlooked them during the crazy in-love period but they came back to haunt me.
And the things she didn’t like about me were ss
finishing my earlier post–
But I made a mistake in thinking since we were married I could be totally open about my depression and self-hate. I would say “I’m so F—d up.” I should have maintained an image of being at least somewhat together.
4. About not knowing “how to do it”, both kissing, touching, and sex, relax. It came pretty naturally to me. It’s not hard.
Thnks for sharing your story. It is really sweet. I really liked it!!
If I may put my perception forward, the reason why your past relationships did not work and this one went well was that one line where you mentioend “I was apparantely her type.” You were apparantely the same person ealrier also, but all those women you met in the past were not of your type and the day you met some one of your type, love happened.
Buddy its all destiny. The lucky ones, some day, somewhere, somehow get to cross the path of each other, just because they were destined to meet! Many others who dont have it in their destiny keep wandering in search of true love!
I wish you and your lovely family all the happiness!!
You were 28 and not 40.
Aww, I think you sound blinking lovely! I don’t understand all this women liking alpha male stuff at all – a nice, shy, polite boy works for me every time and I cannot be the only woman who thinks this! No, I don’t want a wimpy, weak sap, but strength and conviction don’t have to go alongside being pushy, confident and promiscuous as lots of women seem to think.
Personally I’ve been on a few dates with people I mt online who have tried to kiss me on the first meeting and I just find that intrusive, desperate and unattractive. I bet if you could become close friends with a few women and then confide to them that you’re shy and a virgin, I bet at least one would find that endearing and attractive instead of a turn off.
Mind you, sex is extremely underwhelming at first – like snogging. I had expected all through my teen years to find my first snog a passionate, emotional rite of passage. Instead it was wet, wriggly and very physical rather than spiritual. Sex is similarly disappointing – you sort of get to like it for what it is after an initial massive disappointment, as opposed to it being some immensely spiritual, intense experience like you see on the films and wait for all your life. You know when you have that immense emotional connection with a person and are 100% in love with them? Well sometimes orgasms can almost feel ‘wrong’ with someone so special, because they’re such an immensely physical, sweaty, poky event! So good luck, enjoy it when it happens, but definitely keep your expectations low until you’ve learned to love it the way people learn to love waggling wet tongues with people!
@Katie,
…Personally I’ve been on a few dates with people I mt online who have tried to kiss me on the first meeting and I just find that intrusive, desperate and unattractive.
—-
When you found the kiss attempts innapropriate, was that after good first dates with good chemistry ? Do you differentiate between the types of kisses ? What about kisses on the cheeks or chaste pecks on the mouth ? My favorite type of kiss after a first date that went well, to me, is the chaste peck on the mouth. On the cheeks only seems lame and french kissing right after first date is too much for me.
I’ve been on many dates where the only thing that felt natural at the end of the evening was at most a peck on the cheek. That doesn’t actually bother me, as I’d the kind of guy who would much, much rather take things slow and I can’t really handle things going fast. As long as I’m not being rejected, slow is fine to me.
But there are exceptions to that and I experienced it recently.
I recently met a woman online and we hit it off in an extraordinary fashion. At the end of the date, we looked at each other and for the first time in years and years and years it just seemed to me obvious that I should go for a kiss on the mouth. Not a passionate one but on the mouth just the same. I looked at her and I doubted things for a moment and figured that she wanted to wait for next time for the kiss, so I left.
We met again and we did kiss for real that time. She told me that she was surprised that I didn’t just go for it the first time! She figured that I was just kind of goofy about these things so she wasn’t annoyed but she made it clear that she’d have been completely ready for a deep kiss right there and then not because she does this with every guy on a date but because we got along wonderfully and that made all the difference.
Evan, your advice to him was quite good. However, he may be sexually anorexic and relationship avoidant which he may want to seek out a SLAA group in his area for meetings. Or a sex therapist. He sounds as if he might have deep-seated issues surrounding sex and relationships. Dating advice has not helped and won’t until he addresses what is really keeping him sexless and uncoupled.
I want to wish him good luck.
I feel for you Mo.
I grew up in a very dysfunctional family when it came to relationship. My parents were passionless, and I was sent to Catholic school (yes, taught by the nuns). Enough said.
I never had a real girlfriend and was a virgin until I was 25. I had much to learn but I did. Like most other things in life, it is up to you to set your destiny.
There are plenty of women out there who are good for “wham bam thank you mam”. For example, if some girlfriend wants to think she is as hot as all hot movie stars combined in Hollywood and asks (and expects) you to agree with her, tell her don’t short sell herself — Angelina Jolie is nothing compared to her. I would seize every opportunity to have sex with her until her neediness becomes unbearable. Then dump her and move on. I did plenty of that. I hear again and again from women who feel their life is so fulfilled and they are so special when men give them compliments that would make a sane person cringe. But to put it bluntly, you need to treat a dumb fuck like a dumb fuck.
Lest one thinks I am a male chauvinist pig and a misogynist, I married my ex-wife in my early thirties and the marriage lasted for twenty two years until we grew apart. She was very pretty and gorgeous but was sick of men being so full of shit to butter her up all the time. Needless to say I was not one of those with her. During the marriage I was 100% faithful physically, very gainfully employed and lived responsibly so that my ex-wife could be a stay-home mom to raised our two kids. We treated each other as equal. When we divorced we simply divided our assets equally with no regard to who worked inside or outside the home.
I guess for you Mo at your age you are probably beyond messing with the “wham bam thank you mam” bimbos. Making yourself attractive to a girlfriend of serious dating material is like a sales job. Understand to whom you are selling and develop a strategy accordingly. Good luck.
One more thing. I think Evan is to be commended for his work to coach women to become ones of serious dating material. But in doing so he also helps to deplete headcounts from the “wham bam thank you mam” pool. Some win and some lose.
“There are plenty of women out there who are good for “wham bam thank you mam”.
You are “male chauvinist pig and a misogynist” – just look what you wrote up there.
Well, Dina, he did stop short of calling women “selfish, lazy, and stupid”.
A few of them are, but I don’t get what your point is.
JD-Dina said in another post that she keeps running into men that are selfish, lazy and stupid (or something to that effect).
Chance, Thanks for the enlightenment. That would make Dina a female chauvinist sow and a misandrist, no? lol 🙂
Evan, I’m not sure how to report another poster you believe is abusive. But I think JD in LA fits the bill.
Can these posts be deleted? I find them rather hateful. I’ve come to expect this website to be female friendly in helping women. Not anti-female and making derogatory comments about us. Thanks for your consideration to this suggestions.
AllHeart, I delete posts that directly attack a specific person. If anyone’s post was attacking, it was Dina’s. My assistant approved it. I did not.
I will point out that you there is much more hatred of men on these boards than there is of women; you’ve just proven to be more sensitive to the comments about women. I am a dating coach for women and I agree that anti-female sentiments aren’t productive. But do you want me to start deleting every comment that is anti-male as well? If not, you probably have to deal with the fact that some people are going to say things that offend you. However know that any PERSONAL attacks will be policed as best I can.
Sometimes you just have to look at posts as an honest display of someone’s character- then you can understand why they struggle to find a relationship.
Please don’t be that guy that only goes after ‘hot’ women. Go after the normal girls and you’ll have a better chance. Too many people are going after people out of their league. Stop chasing the good looking girls. There are plenty of attractive average women (like me). We are always getting overlooked by the ‘prettier’ girls but we are great catches.
Hi Paula,
Well, I might be interested in you actually. I don’t need a hot woman. Hot woman for me is someone that understands me and I understand her and we like being with each other. Nothing hotter than that.
Paula: I am confined to a wheelchair. I saw a woman this past June when I was at the supermarket across the street. She was not a 10. She was probably a 7. She was wearing a dress that was kind of a rainbow of colors print. She was at the register next to mine. By the time I had checked out what I had she was out the door. Afterwards I thought I should have set down my basket. Then gone out to the entryway and waited for her. Then I could use a pick-up line that involves me and the chair.
attractive @ average . now there’s an oxymoron
Attractive and average is possible, depending on where you live and depending on the age range of the women you’re talking about. I’m often surrounded by a student crowd and maybe I’m just not picky but I find the average female students around me reasonably attractive. I’ve been in regions and countries where that was not the case and only few of the women looked good. I’ve also been to a few places where the women seemed to be almost all very good looking.
That’s not always entirely true. I know an awful lot of women that are above-average in the looks department that get overlooked because men are too scared to talk to/ask them out or they assume they are already taken. I feel that “average” looking people often are the ones that always seem partnered up.
In case it isn’t obvious if a below average looked guy dared asked them out he’d be laughed at.
Mo, I share your pain. Makes one wonder if some things just aren’t meant to be.
Oh, I hate the “just not meant to be” comment. I’ll concede, being female and conforming to my society’s current body size standard, I am offered sex with irritating regularity. But even if it’s harder for men, I want to tell you it’s crazy to just drop it and go live like a hermit. First of all, if you don’t know from personal experience, yes, sex really is that good. You don’t want to miss out. And secondly, there are 3 billion heterosexual females on this planet – someone out there is going to want to be with you.
As Evan suggests, sexual confidence is pretty sexy, but if I like a guy, I’ll make the first move. I think the only personality trait that REALLY makes it impossible to find someone is if you won’t go out (online or bricks and mortar) where people can find you. So unless you WANT to go through life feeling like it just wasn’t meant to be, for God’s sake don’t give yourself permission to just give up – keep putting yourself out there!
Easier said than done, isn’t it…especially after years of trying and failing???
Rebecca:
One last thing. Deciding to no longer play a game one has no hope of winning is hardly giving up. So, how many rejections should a guy endure in the now unrealistic hope of just getting a date?
Certainly easier said than done, and I don’t mean to be flip about how painful repeated rejections are. I get it that I actually _don’t_ get it, and you have to make your own decisions about whether it’s worth it to you. What I want to say to you and other men who are feeling like “incels” is that I think you’re wrong about “no hope” and “unrealistic” because there are so many women with such completely different tastes. And I want to say that, in my experience, finally finding a relationship is so great that it’s actually worth the string of rejections along the way and the agonizing breakup that’s probably coming.
I’m saying this at the end of my own years-long drought. When my marriage ended, it was traumatic enough that I really thought I was done with dating – why put myself through that again? But I didn’t stop hanging out with people, both men and women, at NerdNite, at church, at volleyball, at work… About six years in to my little pity party, I was surprised to discover that I got butterflies in my stomach every time I chatted with one of my co-workers. I was still telling my divorce support group that I was never going to date again even as I was actively making excuses to be in his company. He was only marginally receptive, and I finally got the brush-off, which sucked, and I cried. But that made it possible for me, now seven years since my last relationship ended, to be at the start of a new relationship that’s actually mutual. And hopefully consummated in the very near future.
I’m just hoping you’ll hang in there for your own happy ending.
Don’t let the stigma of never having a girlfriend or sex keep you from retreating into your shell or making you feel awkward around girls. It doesn’t matter how old you are, or what experiences you’ve had in life. Everyone feels overwhelmed and intimidated by things at some time in their life, especially if things don’t come that easy. Stand tall and believe in yourself. You will find some nice girl, or someone you may already know, who you trust and open up too. Just let nature take its course. Good luck!
Its a stigma for a good reason.
I think there isn’t enough information to assume that this poster has some sort of psychosis or disorder. While they are very rare in this day and age, some people just don’t have sex or a significant other on the same timetable as everybody else, and it’s a disservice to jump to the conclusion there is something wrong with him because he hasn’t.
I agree with this to some extent. I don’t expect everyone to be married by age 30, far from it. However, he is 40 and not only has he not had sex, it seems like he’s having significant trouble connecting with women.
Since he says, “Over the years, I’ve learnt–albeit slowly, it seems–about many mistakes I’ve been doing. Not paying attention to women’s body language, not trying to go in for the first kiss, it’s a long laundry list of things I go “Crap, I should have done that!”, I wonder if he could have a disorder like Asperger Syndrome. Such people are usually quite intelligent, but can have problems in social situations because they have trouble reading social cues. Might be worth checking into. and I agree with Tracy (#4), that there could be other emotional issues that are keeping him from connecting with the opposite sex.
Or, maybe he’s just unlucky.
Or shy. Or on a different timeframe than most. Or had medical issues. Or any of a million different experiences that cause him to be on a different path than most, none of which them mean there is something wrong with him.
Did you know that less than 1 in 5000 men with aspbergrs has a successful marriage?
Sure he can have sex, but he wants to have sex with someone thats that actually likes him. If u are awkward as a male thos can be a problem…remember ladies for every guy that is a player there are 10 guys who haven’t had sex in 6 months or more. Men dont have sex thrown at them, we have to put forth alot of effort to make it happen.
Stop trying so hard! I’m an average looking guy and have zero problems attracting good-looking, interesting, nice women. The main thing is BE YOURSELF. Have confidence that you are special, you have worth and that there are girls out there that would be lucky to have you. Whatever you do don’t try and be something you’re not or suck up to them too much. Go to Nordstrom Rack and get some decent clothes that fit. Start lifting weights. you don’t need to be all muscle-bound but lifting will (a) give you confidence and (b) make you look healthy and fit. Oh, and did I mnetion BE YOURSELF AND STOP TRYING – women clue in on that and they immediately start heading the other way. I just enjoy meeting new people and if a woman isn’t interested, why force it? Just meet people (men and women) and if you are yourself, one (or many) will see your value and then you can start to pay them more attention. Good luck – I was in the same place and until I got the self-esteem and self-confidence, things didn’t change. Oh, and read all the stuff on Marc’s site 🙂
just being yourself is not quite it.
I’m actually good looking. I hold a decent job. I’m damn smart and if you heard me talk in some circumstances, you’d think that i was a super confident man in total control of himself. Yet here I am. I’m not an actual virgin but almost and it’s a terrifying secret to be hiding.
I think that I’m finally getting lucky. I met this girl who wants me at all costs! I want her too but damn does she want me! This means that she’s actually putting the effort into teaching me some stuff that I don’t know.
At some point I told her that I’m the knd of guy who always asks permission for everything. I ask if it’s ok to kiss. I ask if it’s ok to touch her body, etc. Instead of being turned off she told me that I should make an effort to stop asking permission and to figure out by myself when it’s welcome. And I will do that and I’m already learning! She is helping me be a better myself.
Hopefully the OP also meets someone who will give him a chance to better himself.
Not going to work.
While I agree with what Evan says about this guy likely coming off as asexual and “too nice”, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that sex is “just something fun that two people do when they’re attracted to each other”. Maybe that is how we’ve come to view it in this society. We’ve reduced it to merely something fun to do on the weekends, but I don’t agree. If you choose that viewpoint, you are likely going to be dissatisfied when you finally do start to “make up for lost time”. Could you learn to get better with women? Sure. Could you learn how to get women in the sack and have a different woman every night, thus getting “better” at having sex? Theoretically. Is it going to fulfill you? No, it likely would not. Maybe at first you might think it’s great, but after a while, it would likely get very boring and you’d feel like a little bit of your soul is being sucked out of you every time you have a meaningless one night stand.
I encourage you to change your mindset from, “Poor me, I’m an older virgin” to, “Hey, you know what? It’s awesome that I’ve escaped all the baggage that accompanies sex.” Baggage that not only includes accidental pregnancy and potential STI’s, but emotional drain from relationships based on sex. Changing your viewpoint about what your virginity means to you is paramount to being satisfied with where you are in life. Adopting the viewpoint of saving yourself for someone special with leave you much more fulfilled and happy with where you are now.
I am a 33 year old virgin who has gone through the same worries that you have. Trust me when I say that I know it isn’t going to be easy to explain myself when I finally do meet the love of my life. I plan to wait until I marry, and I know there aren’t a ton of guys who’d be willing to wait. I’m okay with that because I know that most guys aren’t going to be The One anyway. I didn’t choose to actively wait until just a few years ago but as a result, since then I’ve become so much more at peace with my virginity and with who I am as a person. I always said I wanted to wait at least until I fell in love. When that didn’t happen, over the years I slowly began to realize that there is a reason why. I believe that God wanted me to see that waiting until marriage really is the best choice. It can be the best choice for you, too. I had a lot of help from the site waitingtillmarriage.org as well. You should check it out, it’s a great resource and it could give you a different perspective on virginity and waiting. My advice to you is to stop being the accidental virgin. Stop thinking of your virginity in the context of wearing a scarlet “V” on your forehead and start wearing it like a badge of honor. Be proud of yourself and people will not have a problem with it. In our over-sexualized society, one’s virginity is seen as something shameful that must be gotten rid of as soon as possible, but it doesn’t have to be that way.
There are a lot of women just like me who would consider a male virgin to be highly desirable. Just be positive about it and they likely will be too. I tell people all the time that I’m waiting (when the conversation calls for it, that is). They’re always surprised but I’ve gotten nothing but positive feedback about my choice. Many people actually admire me for waiting and tell me they wish they had as well. So first realize that you are far from being the only older virgin out there, and then work on believing that your virginity is something special which should be saved for someone who deserves it.
+1 on this post! I agree and think you have a great view on this. Thank you for your response!
The author’s statement that this guy is making a big deal out of sex sounds callus, but in this disposable, throw-away, transient society we live in today it is a sad but true fact. To me, this doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with this 40 year old virgin so much as it indicates the degree to which we have disconnected ourselves from our bodies, allowed ourselves to become dehumanized by the rapid acceleration of social and technological change in our society. Sex has become something apart from the person, a means in which we can physically gratify our animal desires without having to involve ourselves spiritually or emotionally. Serial relationships have become the new norm. I’ll use the analogy of the attitude one has towards an apartment he is renting where he’ll only stay a couple of years and the attitude that person has towards his own house where he’ll stay 20 years or more. This high rate of turnover is where this society’s mindset in regards to casual sex comes from. So, unfortunately, the author of this author is right; if the 40 year old virgin wants to get laid he will have to reinvent himself and adapt the mindset the author prescribed.
Johnny,
If getting laid is the goal, he could have done so ages ago, by visiting a sex personals site. Obviously, he wants more than that, as well he should. Humans simply were not wired to have sex with abandon. When you separate sex from love and marriage, you cheapen the act and as a result it becomes only “something two people do when they’re attracted to each other”. It’s no wonder that people with multiple sex partners have so much baggage. They have completely disassociated themselves from sex as a loving act between two people who are sharing a lifelong bond, and reduced it to “getting off”. That is not a fulfilling way to live.
Mo said: (original letter)
“This year, I will turn 40.”
“As of recently, I try to find women between 25 and 42 years old.”
Mo,
It sounds like you may still be pursuing ineffective strategies.
Based on your letter, your immediate concerns are finding a girlfriend and having sex. You’re 39 (soon to be 40). However, the age range you’re pursuing is 25 to 42 (14 years younger to 3 years older). Why did you choose that age range?
Do you have any reason to believe that you have more in common with a 27 year old than you do with a 45 year old? Do you have any reason to believe that 27 year olds find you more desirable than 45 year olds do?
If women who are 25-30 are pursuing you, then I think you should take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves. If not, you might find more success in primarily pursuing women who are close to your age, if not a bit older.
Mo said: (original letter)
“I don’t usually try to go for/get a kiss on the first date, and I don’t try to force sex to happen right away.”
You don’t need to do either of those.
However, you do need to give the impression that you are physically and romantically attracted to the woman. And while you don’t have to get a kiss (or have sex) by any particular date, you have to be willing to initiate the physical intimacy.
You don’t know me and I don’t know you. But I definitely have some advice. It’s the same advice I’ve given to my 22 year old son.
Some background. I’m 51 years old. I have been married to two wonderful and beautiful women in my life. I’m still great friends with my first wife and I have a child with each.
I think I know what it takes to find a woman and get her to feel that you are the one for her. That you’re the guy she can’t do without. The one that makes her feel secure, nurtured, and loved.
I’ll dispense with all the psycho-babble and simply say this. You need to visualize in your mind what kind of woman you want to spend your life with. Whether she should be active, slender, plump, into the arts, or into climbing mountains. You need to decide what kind of woman you want to be with and then you need to be the man that deserves that kind of woman.
You need to be a provider or at the very least carry your weight. You need to get it in your mind that you deserve to find a woman to love and one who will love you in return. And then you need to be that guy.
And most importantly, be fun. Be yourself. Make her laugh for God’s sake. Don’t take yourself too seriously. Talk to women like they’re people. Listen to them. Even if they ramble on about nothing who gives a damn. Not every conversation is a world-changer.
And when it comes to asking them out. Don’t ask. Not literally at least. But rather ask them what they’re doing Friday night and when they respond, “I don’t know. I don’t have any plans.” You say, “Great, I’m taking you to dinner.” Or to play miniature golf or whatever the hell you come up with. You do it with confidence. Just blurt it out. You tell her she’s going out with you. If she says no. Try again some other time or move on. No could actually mean no.
Final thought. Is there any chance you’re gay? That’s awesome too. Go find a guy to spend your life with. You deserve to be happy. And loved. So believe it. And go do it…
Have an awesome life…
P.S. You’ll notice I never mentioned sex. Just get it out of your mind. When you’re approaching women the only thing you should exude is fun and confidence. The rest will happen naturally. And in that split second when you’re thinking it’s time to go in for the first kiss – it’s time. Just do it. The worst thing that can happen is it’s awkward, you both laugh, and you kiss her anyway. Just keep it lighthearted…
I see that experience doesn’t necessarily mean common sense. You ask Mo if he’s gay. He just got through saying he wanted a girlfriend!
Brett, I like your reply. It was actually more interesting than most replies on here, no offense to the others. Straight up and straight to the point. Pretty much stating the fact that if you really want things to happen in life, one needs to make it happen.
Brett,
Just wanted to weigh in and say I love your response (about how to approach and treat women, I have no opinion on the gay query). Letter writer, if you’re still reading, from a woman’s perspective (who is your age), a guy who makes plans, listens, is fun, happy and confident – yes please! I’m also tickled at Brett’s suggestion for setting up a date, lovely! If a guy said that to me, even if I wasn’t interested, his confidence and go-getter attitude could help me change my mind. Clearly you’re not that way inclined, but sometimes you have to fake-it-til-you-make-it! Good luck 🙂
I found this article on Google, came across it because I am 28, never had a girlfriend and still a virgin. My problem is that I’m painfully shy or socially anxious. I don’t want someone to make a big deal out of this or treat me like crap! Also, I don’t think I have what it takes to be a good boyfriend. I’ve tried online dating but I never get any hits.. Women only want the tall, tanned confident dude with abs and tatts. The only messages I get are from overseas scammers. I’ve been single for so long I’ve stopped caring.. And I’m sick of being asked “why are you still single”
CJ, What kind of women did you write to online? The prettiest ones? The slim ones? Did you yourself write to women who were heavier than normal? Maybe on the plain side? No boobs? But had great profiles?
If you have and got no responses, that is too bad. You might need to just go out and do things you enjoy or volunteer at places that would make you feel altruistic. You may meet people IRL who will be attracted who wouldn’t be online.
If *you* only wrote to the most attractive women online then you’re not helping your own cause. If you’re a 5 in looks, then start by writing to women who are also 5 in looks, but whose profiles resonated with you. If you yourself can see beyond a woman’s looks, you may find a woman who will see beyond your shyness and social anxiety.
Karma works like that. And God helps those who help themselves.
Good luck.
C.j
I also wonder if you are just looking for one of the best looking women? Men and women seem to be making the same mistake with online dating. A person looks around, and isn’t happy with the quality of people who will date them. So they turn to online dating sites, and they see all of the pictures and of course start doing a mental sorting. Everybody wants quality in their life, but you also have to be realistic. The word “deserve” never comes into the equation. Nobody “deserves” anything when it comes to finding love. Women make the same mistake of thinking the deserve something, like a woman who has a Ph.D, thinking that she deserves a man with at least a Masters, who is tall, good looking, great teeth, great job, great conversationalist, funny, entertaining, athletic, and more. But the truth is, those men may not like her. Maybe the best man for her is a construction worker who is intelligent beyond his educational level, but thinks she is awesome.
If you are sitting there thinking that life isn’t fair because you can’t attract one of the prettier girls, then you are right, life isn’t fair and it never will be. That IS life, and that is how life has always been. So you have 3 choices. You can continue to go after the pretty girls who reject you, or you can go after women who aren’t as pretty, but will appreciate you for your good qualities, or you can choose to remain single and accept that this is what is best for you. 1 will have you remain single but very unhappy, 1 will have find a girl and hopefully be happy, an 1 will have you be single but hopefully be happy. So what you have to realize is that wishing for a very pretty girl to one day call your own is likely going to bring nothing but unhappiness into your life.
If I were you, I would go back to the sites you tried and look for women that you overlooked the first time. Find some that weren’t quite pretty enough for you the first time around, but you also don’t find them to be horrible looking. Then look at their profiles to see if they say anything that you feel gives you some common ground. I know this can also be hard because men and women often write very generic profiles, which I think is one reason so many fail. We try to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to nobody. So maybe make a small list of 5 questions you can ask as conversation starters. And don’t worry about the looks so much. Often people look better in person and often their looks can grow on you once you get to know them.
But bottom line, if you were a 7 or above, you likely would have gotten at least some interest, so it is likely that you are more like a 5. We can’t be happy until we accept things about ourselves and make peace with that.
CJ – I hate tans, abs and tatts and I love nerdy, shy guys! It sounds like you’re bitter, defeated and that is not super attractive – get some help to change that mindset and then you’ll be someone who women want to be around. If you believe women won’t want you, they probably won’t.
Amen!
Hi, Mo.
Is your situation unique? Not a chance. Every single man who is alive today has had to face the same issues. Some men dealt with them at age 15, while others are still dealing with them at age 85.
There are many, many sources of help. Do a google search for Robert A. Glover, Michael Pariser, David Deida, Wayne Levine, Illuman, among others. They can put you on the right path.
Your message refers to your “friends and coworkers,” but I’m skeptical that you have male friends. Before dating any more women, get some male friends. And work on yourself. You have plenty of time to become the man that you are meant to be — the kind of man who will be a suitable partner for the woman of your dreams.
You’ve actually been given a gift, Mo. Now is the time to open the present.
very good point about the male friends.
I spent most of my adult life having a lot of female friends. In the past few years I’ve started to realize that it’s important to be able to relate to fellow men. I’ve made a conscious effort to hang out more with male friends and i’m starting to actually identify much more with my sex. Don’t know if it’s coincidental but I feel that I’m becoming slightly more attractive too and my long drought is about to end.
unfortunately the majority of us guys are like this. we are a silent majority. our lot in life will be to remain the grunt workers the have-nots. just be careful – you may be labeled an “Elliot Rodgers” and feminism will be after you.
Its difficult to not be jealous and envious of women, even though I’m straight and heterosexual, they are less likely to be late bloomers in the dating game than guys are because they don’t have to approach, ask out or initiate anything, and they are valued for their youth more than guys are
I guess there’s exceptions to every rule snd different circumstances but I’ve allways felt we go after and obtain what we desire a great deal. In other words I’ve allways felt passionate sexual people within reason will find a way to have sex. Im sorta surprised that people would expect sex to be bad. That would be the last thing I would expect if I was attracted and felt mutual chemistry. Since I went through puberty I’ve allways had guys interested so maybe that colors my views. I guess Ive allways thought that unless someone is hideous if after a certain amount of time with no sex or relationships there is an issue of low sexual desire to none or major social dysfunction. I wouldn’t have a clue what to do with a forty something virgin and would run away fast and I consider myself a very compassionate person. I saw an online dating show with a 37 year old virgin and very attractive. I kept thinking he must be hiding some kind of secret disability. He had an attitude like he needed to date ten thousand women to find the one. I find that strange like why couldnt he think the first or second cute lady he’s interested In be the one. I had the feeling he will never find what he’s looking for and he allready knows it.
You said: “I guess Ive always thought that unless someone is hideous if after a certain amount of time with no sex or relationships there is an issue of low sexual desire to none or major social dysfunction. I wouldn’t have a clue what to do with a forty something virgin and would run away fast and I consider myself a very compassionate person.”
Yes J. Totally understand you make complete sense, looking at things from a female perspective. Nearly all women feel the same way. Some of these men, like all men, who find themselves in this position are heart-breakers and overly picky. Some are bitter. But on the other hand, there is a percentage of all men, virgin and non-virgin that fall into the above categories so we can’t over generalize.
I can tell you this, while I was never a 40 year old virgin, I did lose my virginity later than those in my peer group. There was NOTHING wrong with me besides the fact that I didn’t know how to attract women and was extremely shy. I was also religious and for a long time I believed I should save myself for a serious relationship, not necessary marriage, but not a casual fling. I was never hateful, mean, or a heart-breaker in fact I was the stereotypical “nice guy” who wanted to respect women and treat them like gold. I really wanted sex to mean something. That was who I used to be. I remember there was a girl who was super into me, but I wasn’t attracted to her at all besides as a friend. I could have slept with her and lost it, but I remember thinking to myself. This girl is in love with me. I wouldn’t want someone to use me for my money, so I am not going to lead her on and use her for sex.
The basic problem with us men, is we are taught by our friends, family and Hollywood, the exact wrong way to attract and keep a woman. I mean, the totally wrong way to go about this. Not SLIGHTLY wrong. COMPLETELY and UTTERLY wrong. In fact, if you follow this advice, a woman will run away as quickly as she can. Imagine if you, as a woman, were taught over and over again, by your male friends, by your male relatives, by Hollywood, newspapers, magazines and Internet advice columns. Everyone around you drills over and over again into your mind that the best way to attract men is to be fat, smelly and bitchy. Imagine that. You are indoctrinated in this from the time you are a little girl through your entire life. You keep on following this advice and when you run into trouble, you are told, you are “not fat enough” and need to gain more weight. So you do and continue to run into issues. Eventually you would feel upset and betrayed when you realize this is a lie. That is the state of mind that some guys get into. However they need to get over this anger and start studying how to be effective, which is basically the opposite of what women, society and the media say.
men with little or no experience at an advanced age know that you most likely will run a way really fast.
Obviously, a man who’s in his mid 30s and still is a virgin is abnormal in some way. But how abnormal ?
I’m not an actual virgin but I’m close. I am abnormal in some ways and yet just how bad can it be ? I’m lucky to have just met someone who is into me enough to try to go beyond the lack of experience.
One of the “bad” things about me is that I don’t really get body language and subtle clues. So I let her know that she shouldn’t be too subtle. She’s probably not used to that but it looks like she got it and she makes things more explicit for me. It’s unusual to have to do that but is it that bad ?
Like pretty much all men in my situation, I’m just plain shy when it comes to intimacy and i’m conscious of my inexperience and it makes things worse. I kept asking for permission to touch her or to kiss her. Instead of freaking out, she explained to me that she wanted me to learn how to *know* when it’s ok to touch her or kiss her. So I’m learning. Hopefully I’ll learn well and she will reap the benefits.
43 similar situation. At this point it’s more likely I’ll get struck by lightning than ever have a girlfriend.
My age range is large in both directions and have tried women of all shapes and sizes. Doesn’t matter, I don’t light the spark.
The fact of the matter is many women will question a man if he’s 40 and never married. Add to that never having a relationship and almost every woman will run for the hills.
In my experience the guys that never have relationships are delusional ultra picky pain in the asses heartbreakers. I know that sounds harsh but thats what I have experienced. The one I was involved with his best friend who was my friend also I questioned after the fact why didnt he protect me from that? His response was hey hes never had a relationship you should have protected yourself! Never again snd thank god I’m married now and i would never date again if ever single again in this life time. When I see match.com commercials on tv my husband and I both laugh like who needs that shit! Going out of your way grinding your ass off to impress some total stranger what a pain no thank you.
As I said, it’s hopeless. why even bother?
I am not 43, but I used to be an older virgin with no relationship skills compared to my peer group so I understand where you are coming from.
I could sugar coat this but I feel it is important that you know the truth. Pretty much EVERY woman, pretty, ugly, somewhere in between, consider male virgins and guys who have never had relationships, deeply disgusting and repulsive. Unbelievably super unattractive. You know when you go to the beach and you see the fat girl who wears at least 400 pounds wearing spandex with her butt hanging out. You know how you get disgusted by this? Women feel this way about male virgins. They often lie about this fact. But what I am saying is ABSOLUTELY true. Please don’t argue with me, just realize that this is the case. Now I am not telling you this to depress you, I’m sure you are a good person. I am not saying things SHOULD be this way. I am telling you that this is the way things ARE. For women, it is just totally inconceivable that a man would have a problem with this area. Talking to them and making them try to understand this, is a complete waste of time. It is like arguing with a Jehovas Witness. You are never going to get them over to your point of view and it is a complete waste of time.
So if you really want to resolve this you need to LIE, LIE and LIE some more. I would invent long term relationships, breakups, etc. Make sure you tell the same lies to each girl, so you don’t get yourself mixed up. Forget EVER being honest with women about this — they will leave immediately if you are. Women here might deny this, but they know deep down inside they would leave if they found out. Once you have some recent experience, you can tell women about that if asked. But if you are asked about your earlier life, again LIE.
omg. What planet are you from. Your comment is simply not true Adam. I know that for a fact. I find your answer and attitude absolutely repulsive, I do not however find the sexually inexperienced men deeply disgusting or repulsive. I actually find it rather attractive and would have no problem personally getting to know these guys. You on the other hand with your belief of lie, lie, lie really turns me off. There is nothing more refreshing and promising than meeting a guy who is not only a truth talker but who also has morals for himself, women and the time he is spending with another person. It’s sad that you feel like your advice could be helpful. We all experience things in different ways and at different stages of our lives. I honestly find the men who are on here saying that they are close to my age and still virgins to be more appealing in every way than I do the man who says lie to women to make them think you are someone or something that you are not.
Please do not take the advice of becoming a liar. There is nothing more unfair to another person than giving them false information to work with, how will they get to know and understand you better? With lies or the real person you are? Not only is it rude to lie but it will hurt both you and the person you lie to. Be you. There is nothing more sexy than someone just being comfortable with themselves.
The problem is 40 year old virgin guys are usually terrible liars.
C43,
Please don’t think that no woman would want a man who is 43 with no relationship history. I have knowledge of someone in the same situation. I don’t know him well but he seems like he would be a wonderful potential partner or husband to someone. He is kind and considerate of others polite and very intelligent treats his mother very well. I would gladly date him if I had the chance. (Its not an option right now but if the situation ever arose I would certainly jump on the opportunity to have a man who was not a self absorbed narcissistic asshat who had no ability to accept or reciprocate intimacy and would rather beat off to porn than have his woman get him off any time she had the chance.) I will be 35 and have been married once and in a 10 yr relationship have a history of abuse both in childhood and in both of my intimate relationships it has taken DECADES of therapy to realize that the ones who come on strong and have a lot of experience are the ones to stay away from. Those are the ones who prey on women who are honest, nieve, trusting, and just want to love and be loved by one person for the rest of their life. (So speaking from the average perception of men I am “damaged goods” or “have issues” “too old” ect. Even though I have a great capacity to try to please my partner in everyway possible) The same goes vice versa so be glad you have no experience instead of being taken for granted , abused, cheated on ect. Like many good men have who end up hating women as a result of the heartless asshat females. Frankly I would find it to be a positive asset not a negative trait. I think that if you get to know a woman who is more mature you may be surprised. I know everyone is afraid of the freindzone but a good woman is not going to let something so petty bother her and if she’s not a good woman your better off alone than with someone who will trample your emotions and treat you like trash.
Im afraid I am one of those people who is skeptical of the never had a relationship guy after dealing with two of them. Never again. They get alot of undeserving sympathy in my experience as their cruelty know no bounds. Alot of well meaning friends and family worry and try to set them up. Forget it dont put a woman through that its nt fair to do that. They’re delusional ultra picky personality disordered lots of childhood issues. Never again would I ever go there again and after that experience I thank god I’m married now and off the marker. In fact when match.com commercials come on the tv now my husband and I both laugh and say we wouldn’t want to have to do hand stands to impress a complete stranger. No thanks. I wouldnt want to ever have to date again in this lifetime. Theres a reason why some people haven’t had a relationship its usually because they dont deserve one and are horrid!!!!!
In my view, it’s you who is being callous and horrid. You are judging millions of men based on one, apparently traumatic, experience.
the truth
You are 99% of women agree there.
36, male, same situation. I have only ever had one date in my life, when I was 24. She was a co-worker and it took me about a year to gather the courage to ask her out. After one drink the date was over because I just didn’t know what to say. Then when I was 26 I had my first and to date only kiss. Both the girl and I were extremely drunk at that point and I don’t remember much of it. My college days are long over now; my mother semi-permanently lives with me because of her bad health. When she dies, there will be nothing left to keep me on this earth.
Anyway i hope Robert you have forgiven me. I still feel terrible abour your reaction and wish you well. You have way more power than you know just need to use it. Be strong and be well.
And also Robert your mom is so lucky to have a son like you
You should get out of your comfort zone Robert! If you’re waiting a year to ask a girl out, that builds up all kinds of fantasies and expectations that are impossible for a lady to live up to. That sucks about your mother and you’re a kind person to look after her, but take time to make your life more awesome by doing something risky – go on a blind date, ask out a stranger when you’re buying groceries, get online. It won’t happen if you don’t put yourself in situations where it COULD happen! If you don’t know what to say, ask questions! If you want to make out, ask politely! I’ve kissed boys just because they asked nicely (and weren’t drunk idiots) – it works! Most things will fail, but every time you try something that makes you feel uncomfortable, the next uncomfortable thing will feel easier until it doesn’t feel uncomfortable anymore, just exciting. If you feel like this is impossible, it could be a great idea to take some time each week to see a professional counsellor or psychologist who could build up your self esteem and help you to push through whatever boundaries are keeping you from happiness. If you challenge yourself, eventually you’ll realise those boundaries are in your head – they don’t exist, and you can say FUCK YOU BOUNDARIES and walk right through them!
There’s always something to live for. It’s scary to take risks, believe me I know. But that’s how you find what you want. Women will reject you — even so called hot confident men get rejected at times — but it’s their loss. Just keep moving forward. There are far too many women on this planet to believe there isn’t one you can be happy with!
Oh Robert, you sound like you have plenty of reasons to stay on this earth after your mother passes away. As a person who is obviously such a giving caring person you will have many easy ways to connect with others as friends or potential partners. I can’t say I know too many men who would allow their mother to move in with them because of poor health. What a totally unselfish thing to do. Maybe your circumstances are not helping your social or love life right now but just from your description of being there to assist a loved one in times of need you must know that there are many good women who find that sort of trait and nature to be exactly what they want in their lives. You need to ease up a little on yourself.
You’re right I did sound callous. I forget that there are some kind shy guys. Theres women like that too. I knew a woman mid forties that never dated because no one gave her any attention because she didn’t attract male attention. But she was obviously a neighbor certain woman just not considered hot so she wasn’t exploited which I envied but I’m sure she was lonely. Anyway I’m not aa horrid as I sound really I’m probably too kind and trusting and that was my problem back then when single. I apologize to anyone I have offended. Life can be veey unfair to some peopke who are good and I hate that. Those arent the kind of folks I waa talking about. Sorry again.
Women don’t like shy men.
I agree w/cj. I am painfully shy and socially anxious. I also fear rejection. I am 62 and have only had sex once. I was at my father’s in Ft Lauderdale,FL. A friend said no man my age should be a virgin. He took me to a prostitute. Whenever I am around a woman I become tongue-tied. I am confined to a wheelchair after an unfortunate accident in early 2005. I want to use this line. “Would a pretty lady like you like to go w/me for a spin?”. A dating coach near me said it has a lot of risk and has a lot of reward.
hey my friend i am 40 too and have had the same problem.and i expect your probably a nicer than average person.women arent really stimulated by the goodness or decensy of a mans heart,only the bullshit false sweetalk matters.so rather than listening to people tell you the scripted shopping list of what to say and do tp appease a woman.just relax in the fact that your not pulling because your too genuine.the right woman will see that in you hopefully i will find mine too
You’re so wrong – I love decent men, especially awkward nice guys. Maybe you’ve had experiences of being attracted to superficial women who are like that, but not all women are. If you think that “all women aren’t attracted to a kind heart and only care about a guy who can whisper the right words while paying for dinner”, you’re probably not allowing yourself to see or attract kind women, who may look or act differently to the others.
i know your right.but the percentage is very small.especially in this day and age were we are perpetually bombarded by the media on fashion how to fit or youll b ostricisised.we are all programmed on courtship and sexual culture.in my experience in glasgow nice doesnt work too well. confident and dominant are pre requisites.thanx for comment.
Before I start if you see an X it = wrong/shouldn’t have done it!
Oh man, my heart actually aches when I read your predicament Mo. I am 36 go to college and in the same boat (a virgin). Trouble is I bet you I’ll reach 41 before you do 🙂 Time just flies so fast. Anyway whatever you do and trust me on this one. DON’T TRUST WOMEN! I made that mistake by talking to a girl who gave me a boost of confidence said I looked like an comedian she likes. (First) X! Then we hang out together at the pub till like everyone else goes home then we say goodbye she calls and texts me wonder’s where I am, so cute so sweet (second) X! My fault I shouldn’t have called her back! and then finally the nail in the coffin! She knew I liked her, I told her I liked her! X She said I’m not at the stage of looking for a romantic relationship, I’m sure any girl would be happy to have you as a boyfriend X How many times have I heard that?!? I got angry said you should have told me that from the get go, she said she did! Not to my face she didn’t! So I thought fuck this! I don’t need a friend, I have heaps of those men AND women, so I said goodbye to her forever!
I was nothing but nice and kind to her! Never make that mistake again!
I thought women like nice guys! Boy was I wrong! I was talking to this hooker once at the pub and she got upset when I told her nice guys finish last! She got upset!!! I’m a nice guy, I always finish last!
If a girl looks my way or even smiles, gonna completely ignore them!
If I see her around college, which I doubt, or at the pub, I’m going to totally ignore not even acknowledge her!
I’m sick of being rejected!
Now I can’t stop thinking about her! That’s the only thing! I hate her so much! I hate myself even more for even thinking I had a chance!
I don’t want to be single! I don’t want to have to pay for it either!
I can’t deal with the heartache anymore! I’m sick of it!
All women are crazy, cold and heartless, yet it’s my fault!
I’ll end up being a 90 year old virgin and single! I was gonna say something else… But I’m seething, I’m so angry! I can’t take it anymore!
Oh yeah, DON’T TRUST WOMEN EVER!
I’d rather be single forever than have my heart broken again and again and again and again and again…
All I can say is good luck Mo and break their hearts if they have any in the first place! 🙂
Good luck! 🙂
I let this sad letter through because it’s illuminating about how men also struggle with women. With his attitude (sadness, entitlement, negativity, anger), Silk is never going to do well, but I think it’s a window into a world we don’t see on this blog too often – the nice guy who thinks women are bitches for rejecting him. Silk, please don’t become another Eliot Rodger, okay? And go pick up a copy of Robert Glover’s “No More Mr. Nice Guy” while you’re at it.
I’ll say it again: unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the one you are mad at to die.
@EMK re 28. It is a sad letter but I’m not sure that Silk is actually a “nice” guy. Too often in my 20s, I was the girl mentioned in the letter: genuinely friendly, enjoying the company of men and women and being my bubbly self. Little did I realise that I was not supposed to enjoy and affirm any man unless I wanted to date him – that to do so would be considered “rejection” – that if I was not offering a romantic relationship that all overtures at friendship would be deemed insulting.
*sigh*
Okay, what do girls want in a man!?! What?!? Tell me, please. Good looks? Money? What!?! She laughed at all my jokes, she must have thought I was interesting otherwise she wouldn’t have hung around with me. She didn’t like my friends, so I sat with her instead of my friends. I was generous. She bought drinks, I bought drinks. I was always confident around her… What do you women want!?! What!?! Tell me. Please! Yeah, now I’m not nice, why should I be nice now after doing those things with every girl I’ve ever had a crush on and then being rejected. Oh don’t worry, you’ll probably say I’m just a creep that deserves to be miserable and alone. Fine! I’ll do that! I won’t approach any woman I like and that I have a crush ever! I’ll die, unloved alone and single! Happy? I’ll talk to my friends that ARE girls but the second, I have feelings for that special someone, I’ll just forget it and move on! And die alone! Thanks Henriette! Thanks. 🙂
@Henriette,
Forgive me if this is repetition – I’ve written this on one of Evan’s other postings, but it bears repeating. Men and women (generally) have different concepts of friendship. For many men, a friend is someone to do things with, rather than to be emotionally intimate with. For that type of man, a woman who is bubbly and friendly and emotionally open with him is something entirely un-like his friendships with other men, and is often seen as a burgeoning relationship – especially if that man has not had many romantic relationships himself.
This is the quandary of the “nice guy”. “Niceness” is a quality that men find sexually attractive in women, but is only a quality that women find “human” in men. Men are expected to be nice in the same way they are expected to have a nose on their face. Many men see women with “jerks” and believe that women don’t value niceness, and that is only partly true. Women DO value niceness….but niceness is not a sexual attractant for them. Thus, if a man is confident, passionate, good looking, etc., then “niceness” is the icing on the cake, and “jerkiness” is a pebble in it (though will get worse as time goes on).
This isn’t to say that women should not pursue friendships with men, but rather advice that if a man appears to be overly committed – constantly following you around, offering help, etc – then realize he is an orbiter and not a friend, and do him a favor and cut him loose.
And Silk, I feel for you man, but your attitude is not helping you. Forget whether your feelings are justified or not. Forget how right you are and how wrong you think others have been. Read the book Evan recommended (it will help you). And after that, try to approach new situations from a fresh perspective – not all women will be like the one(s) you had bad experiences with, and in fact if you have 99 bad experiences and only 1 good one, that 1 good one may be all you need.
@jeremy – a sincere thank you. I do understand this, now I’m in my 40s. In my 20s, I understood in theory but was unskilled at recognising the signs and truly thought it presumptuous to imagine that a guy who was nice to me must be “interested” so no doubt misinterpreted many signals through the years.
I simply take issue with the anger that I see so often directed (on the internet, especially by Red Pill types) at young women who may or may not have a sense of how to manage the friendship vs. romantic interest issue. All too often, it’s explained by the MRA community as these girls purposely toying with nice guys and then having unrestricted sex with jerks and players. The result is many fellows who’ve had their feelings hurt by rejection turn that sadness to resentment and rage.
I am trying to present the other side to readers like Silk; there are lovely young women “out there” who are doing their imperfect best to graciously navigate the treacherous dating waters. Yes, there are heaps of user girls (and guys!) who purposely string along interested parties. But there are also plenty of girls who are like I used to be: simply doing the best they can to interpret ~ not always correctly ~ what they think is happening.
I received a fair share of attention in my younger years but never dated a jock or a rich guy or a player; the only men I’ve ever slept with were long-term boyfriends; two of these long-term boyfriends were what some have rudely referred to as “geeks,” “nerds” or “dorks.” I also have lovely girlfriends who were ignored and passed over time and again by these “nice guys” in favour of flirty teases so presumably rejection of kind, sweet, unassuming people goes both ways. Instead of becoming embittered by the dating process, it would great if the nice people could just strengthen their resolve to find each other amid the sea of less-than-nice candidates.
Silk, different girls want different things in a man. Some girls want Alphas, some want Betas (give me an awkward Beta!), some want good looks, money, houses, humour – all of the above. Girls all have different personalities, desires and attitudes. Thinking that all girls are the same – bitches – and holding onto that hate will not only drive nice girls away (if that’s what you’re looking for), but will make you feel awful and wanting to die alone. Maybe you should talk to someone, find a happy place, and work on dating women who you may not at first have a huge crush on, but women with whom you feel mutual respect, compatability and think are alright looking. If you limit or have limited yourself to girls who you have crushes on or think might be “that special someone”, it’s clear that this strategy isn’t working – so try a new one! But see a professional about your past hurts first, or you’re at risk of fulfilling your own prophecy and being single forever.
And I would like to REFUTE the “girls don’t like nice guys” line, maybe it’s an American thing but there are lots of girls who would love a nice man – maybe the nice guys are going for the wrong girls, or just not asking (nicely) for what they want.
hi henriette,
i’m in the same boat now, being 20 and having all these guys being “nice” to me. fortunately i’ve realised what their “niceness” all too often actually means, so i’m focusing on real things in life. thanks for the reminder again!
In light of the “nice guy” debate, check out this piece if you don’t mind. I find it rather ironic.
http://elitedaily.com/women/open-letter-nice-guys-dont-stop-trying/
Mickey, yeah, that article was full of a mixture of truth and nonsense, of expectations and entitlements. Forget that article and distill it down to this: Be honest in your intentions. Forget the word “nice” – it is misleading. Be HONEST. If you like a girl, ask her out, rather than trying to be her “friend” and slipping past her defenses. If she rejects you, move on. If she accepts you, go for it. But don’t hide your intentions under a mask of false pretenses.
There is a world of difference between these 2 situations of “niceness”:
1) a man who asks a woman out on a legitimate date, she gets drunk, and he drives her home and sees her safely off. This man is honest (wants a relationship with her and lets her know it), but is also legitimately “nice”.
2) a man fears rejection so offers friendship to a girl instead of asking her out on a date. They go drinking together, and he hopes that she will get drunk enough to sleep with him. Such a man is false – his niceness is manipulative.
Niceness is not an attractant to women. Women want men whom they find attractive in other ways, and once they have those men, they hope those men will be nice. Understand that, and focus your efforts to impress women in other directions.
Silk, you’re right because I’ve been rejected since high school in favor of thugs, playboys, and stuff like that. I’m a nice guy and got an MBA degree. I’ve been very helpful even financially. Unfortunately, after being divorced for 16 years (I’m 50 now) and being ignored and used by women because I had money I’ve come to conclude that women should never be trusted. In fact my former girlfriend used my new car to pick up what is now her husband. I’ve quit women and am looking at going MGTOW, being gay or being a Catholic priest. At least I can focus on doing what I want to do anyway
Don’t know why i’m telling you this, but just to clarify I didn’t ask her out the first night. I should have said to cut a long story short. This happened over the course of 2 months. Final day of the second month is when I asked her out! P.S. I won’t become another Eliot Rodger because I’m not going to talk to girls ever again! For fear of rejection over along period of time of liking someone then having my heart broken yet again. I’m going to avoid them all together if I see someone I like, avoid them. I’m still going to talk to my friends that ARE girls, but as for that special one! Forget! I’ll be single and lonely forever! So don’t worry I’m NEVER going to be a Eliot Rodger, that’s for sure! I want to be famous for something good not evil! P.P.S I don’t think I’m entitled and I never call women the b word! Ever! Just cold, cruel and heartless!
And FYI she wanted to see my… You know, but I didn’t show her… That’s was also a big
confidence booster too because no girl has ever said that to me… Ever!
But whatever… Don’t worry about me, I’m perfectly happy to remain single and unloved and lonely from that one special person of the opposite sex, forever!
Thanks for the advice, though. Even though it was a suggestion to read a book! (ergh!) 🙂
I think maybe u could just put yourself in situations where u meet more women, and don’t hope too much (cos clearly u find it hard when u get your hopes up and it doesn’t work out). At least u have lots of friends so it’s not like u don’t get enough social interaction. I think u’d find online dating disappointing, and u don’t seem to handle disappointment well; it’s a pity because lots of pple met their future spouse on OL dating, but after meeting many pple it didn’t work with–including our own Evan I think, and Julia a commenter met tens of pple before meeting her future fiance. But it takes a certain upbeat perseverence which I think u may not have.
Just yesterday night I met a Swiss guy on a first date–40, over 6 feet tall, attractive, successful, nice personality. And he’s single, and he says he’s not contentedly-single either, just hasn’t managed to click with the right person yet. He doesn’t take it personally (his singledom), just goes out and tries to make more friends, stays confident, and hopes to meet the ‘right’ woman. That’s a healthy attitude to take.
Having an upbeat perseverance is all well and good, I guess. But when it gets ripped out of you, as it’s obviously happened here, how do you get it back…if you can get it back?
How old are you? Your writing would indicate you are quite young.
I’m 50.
Fear is a huge motivator – don’t let fear of rejection keep you from getting what you want.
At least Elliot Rodger deserved respect because he has been rejected by women since high school, even though he had everything
A murderer deserves respect? Seriously are you trolling?
No I am not trolling. I meant that women rejected him because they would rather date someone who would be good looking. I can relate because I’ve been rejected since high school in favor of boys who were in the varsity basketball team and since church and college in favor of those who go to the clubs and be involved in the streets. How would you feel if you were rejected in favor of thuggish looking folks? I felt totally bad. I’ve even been used too much. I’ve been called lots of names like fag, boring, and such. It’s not that I approve what he did but at least he was able to do that was understandable
Look… All I want as corny as it sounds is someone to love and someone to love me for who I am and visa versa. Is that really so much to ask for? I don’t want to be alone… And quite frankly I don’t give a [email protected]# about what anyone writes or thinks, I just want to be happy with someone, and make someone happy. Is that too much to ask?!? But you know… whatever… You people have made up your mind that I’m a creep and that I’ve got a “bad” attitude… So you know what… F$%^ it! You’re on the internet. Your and my opinion does not count! So… I’ll leave you with this one “nice” simple suggestion…? Love… Just love. 🙂
P.S. Everyone wants me to be alone forever anyway… so I might as well be and just LOVE everyone like they were my brothers and sisters as in, not just love ONE person but LOVE EVERYBODY!!! 🙂
right on sir nothing wrong with being alone.so many people al over the world are so alone.some much worse than ourselves. but we have one thing in common …we are not. we all have each other.
To the 40yr old virgin…
Sadly , i think your insecurity over still being a virgin at 40 is making it so hard to get up the courage and let a women know that before you have sex with them that you just can’t get up the nerve too… & i sincerely feel the best chance you have to break this mental barrier is to buy some condoms find a mature prostitute
Possibly the famous one in nevada outside vegas
Pony up the big bucks they charge explain to her once your alone that your a vigin and your terrified to be a failure… She will be so flattered that you chose her to be your first that she’ll leave her usual whore act on the shelf and truly want to help you and be so wonderful to you and really make you comfortable and get you the realtime experience of intercosrse you have to get before your ever going to be comfortable with a girl who means something to you …. This less connected ananimity is what you need before you’ll ever have the nerve to be naked in a bed with a women ….. I know because that was the only way i finally had the nerve to break myself in….. My fear was experiencing my first time with a girl in my circle who if i was a dissapointment would let everyone in my circle know what a failure i was
I think you suffer the same extreme performance anxiety i did the only difference was i had the fortunate blessing of working with a girl who was a total nymph and slept with every guy at work except me and her wisdom gained from so many encounters with men was that i must be scared to take the blatant fuck me hints she was constantly throwing out the because i was scared to be compared to everyone else she was with and everyone i knew finding out…. This lovely slut figured out that the only way she was gonna get me in the sac was to totally persue me and get me somewhere i was positive no one i knew was around and then seduce me with kindness and explain that she already new i was a virgin and to just relax and let her help me get over this fear and she promised no one would ever know…. WoW looking back if she didnt do that i woulda been 40 just like you so just get with someone you can be totally anonymous with and after a few times your confidence to have sex with a women in your circle that you have feelings for will gradually increase your case is so extreme it requires an extreme effort
Many of these comments, even from Silk, discuss romance as a binary thing, as rejection or sex. The reality is that there’s a lot in-between, and it’s the in-between stuff that leads to the sex: Eye contact, holding hands, a few seconds of arm in arm or arm on shoulder, sitting next to each other and talking for an hour or two. She (in almost all cases) won’t be turned on cuddling naked without LOTS of cuddling clothed, and before than, lots of walking while holding hands. Also, when she likes you, that first rejection can be a test form her side to assure herself you really like her enough to wait. Ultimately, the best love and sex comes down to how she feels in your company, not any particular attributes you have or don’t have.
Shy of selling my soul, I would kill to be in your position I seen the 40 year old Virgin, and lamented that film didn’t come out in 1985
Count your blessings and your Virginity Sex is crap living with another human being that tears your life apart is crap. Trust me make love to investments instead, retire early and enjoy your life, bringing a woman or man if your gay is the most stupid and destructive thing you could do, and avoid casual sex with American women, God only knows what STD’s you might run into..Cheers!!
Too many of you are super picky. Aim for women way out of your league or even reject women that are into you because she lives in another city, doesn’t like star wars or star trek, has dated an alpha male or a few etc.
men who have little options in the dating arena are usually not the ones being picky. so I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
in animal kingdom, men are agressive and want sex quickly. When Intelligence develops, men and women cannnot live together. Its a sad part of nature I hate. Id fuck every girl at my work, every girl I cross almost. but for them, Its another story.
Yeah getting a girlfriend is definitely hard I am 29 and never had a girlfriend in my life. Most of the pretty women are either all taken or they are not interested but I hope and pray someday I will get a girlfriend.
How about a woman who is just average looking but has many other wonderful qualities that would make you happy? Oh Right …. Not good enough for you.
i have little sympathy for guys like you.
I would go out with an average woman but even they are hard to come by and yes I am trying to go places where I am going to meet women.
you don’t even know the type of women this dude goes for, so you are automatically assuming that this guy goes for women out of his league. men who have trouble attracting females are usually not the ones being picky here bro.
-James,
Try reading what people say. Mark had complained that “Most of the pretty women are either all taken or they are not interested”, so I would say Mark had explicitly stated what type of women he went for.
Sure didn’t claim that Mark was too picky or that he was aiming out of his league. She was simply expressing a lack of sympathy for someone who had specifically expressed difficulty in dating “pretty women”.
I am a man approaching 40 and a virgin. If someone gets to this age and they still haven’t done the deed, there is something not right about them. People might pass it off as shy and stuff but the fact is underneath it all there are issues.
Personally I was abused as a kid and its had a marked effect in many areas of life. For like 20 years I have been working on myself to resolve issues and in all honesty it really does suck. Not just effecting sexual relationships but whole load of other stuff in life as well. But such is life and you just have to get on with it.
Really if you over 30 and never had sexual relations really you should go seek some professional help, this sort of stuff really just doesn’t happen by accident. Chances are something like the environment your childhood envitonment has contributed towards it.
I just turned 40 years old a few month ago and also never had a girlfriend. I only had a three dates in my life. The last date was in January 2005. Honestly I do not think those three dates can even be counted as such. By now I have accepted my fate and basically just moved on. I can not start conversation with women about my age that I find attractive and internet services produced nothing. Over the past 10 years I have tried numerous dating websites that produced no results. I post the profile and if contact someone there is no reply and if I wait for female to contact me my social security will expire. So nothing at all. So I just ran out of any other ideas and just moved along in my life. The goal in life now is to enjoy the things that I have and just accept that personal life is something foreign and non-existent.
Same here. I’ve lived most of my life by myself…cold siblings, controlling parents..no true friends. Kept hunting for Mr.Right for long….nothing happened. Here I’m..a virgin at 40. Never been kissed. Never had sex. Never had a boyfriend. I guess that’s my karma… instead of chasing something that’s not meant for you just live life by yourself…do things that make you happy. Maybe the world is short of people that you seek. No compromise. Maybe you are unique and special. Be happy 🙂
I don’t think I’ve seen so many bitter and uninformed posters in one thread. Posters who advise virgin guys to “stay in their league” all assume that virgins are unattractive hypocrites who are only interested in “hot” women. These posters further assume that “hot” women will only go out with “hot” guys. Such “advice” reeks of envy towards conventionally attractive women and bitterness towards men.
The only people who are bitter are the male virgins. Should we lie or be honest? The honest truth isn’t what you want to here.
Who says they are bitter? And why advise them to just do it with someone whom they’re not attracted to, especially when you balk at the thought of being with someone who doesn’t meet with your exact imagination? There’s a lot oh hypocrisy going on there.
watch some nature documentaries on animal planet and understand the natural behavior of wild animals. The natural order of things is the strong survive and the weak one dies. More often then not in a pack of wolves or lions, there usually is an odd one out. The odd one is separated from the herd and sent off to die. If it doesn’t have what it takes to attract a mate, therefore, it must be erased.
Haha, this reminds me of how the bully in grade school is someone everyone fears and looks up to. Only problem is that the bully ends up on the bottom, because he doesn’t do well in school, can’t solve problems in a civilized way, etc.
The gene pool in society is getting worse overtime, because a lot of women pick dudes who are beneath them in intelligence and moral capacity to reproduce with. The heard is pretty stupid.
I have dated 2 older virgins in my life (one mid-20s, one early 30s). I had an LTR with the first, and married the latter.
There are older virgin women, and less experienced women, who will not view your virginity as a failing. Why not target one of them? You can find them in church groups, craft circles, cooking and art classes…stereotypical, but true.
If sex has meaning to you, why not present it that way? It is a real turn on for some women to hear that a man values monogamy and commitment (vs just rampant and impersonal casual sex).
Realistically, a virgin man in his 40s most likely has/had a dependency on porn and masturbation (or some other sexual outlet like fetishes, strip clubs, etc). It creates a weird Madonna-Whore dichotomy, which leads to awkwardness around women, anxiety about sex, and reinforces bad sexual technique. I speak from experience having slept with men like this.
A prostitute will just make this worse. They are only there to earn cash, and they do this by pretending to be attracted to the John and really into the sex. It’s how they get you to keep coming back. In reality, most of these women are great actresses who can do the job well precisely because they don’t care much about men, and don’t feel much enjoyment in sex. A disproportionate number are actually gay women (browse through lesbian personal ads in California or Nevada to see this for yourself).
I would suggest giving up on porn and the sex industry, which probably helped create the problem, and this will increase your own sex drive and motivation. Then start spending time around real women in social situations.
“I suggest giving up on porn and the sex industry.” I suggest you actually ask guys what they do instead of speculating and jumping to conclusions. Does Evan not moderate comments anymore?
A healthy 40-year-old man will have a sex drive. It is not jumping to conclusions to assume he’s got another sexual outlet, and these days it’s probably porn. Whatever his outlet, its a crutch.
Leigh said: “You can find them in church groups, craft circles, cooking and art classes…stereotypical, but true.”
And here I thought churches were for religion, and not for picking up women.
And how many women will actually be interested in a guy who goes to a crafts group?? I guess maybe his mod podging or needlepoint will win her over?? :-s
and also said: “Realistically, a virgin man in his 40s most likely has/had a dependency on porn and masturbation … which leads to awkwardness around women, anxiety about sex,”
Really?? Did you proof read this before you hit the post button?
And also what then about a woman who is in her 40’s who is a virgin??
And what about the large percentage of women who watch (or read) porn??
“What then about a woman who is in her 40’s who is a virgin?? And what about the large percentage of women who watch (or read) porn??”
It’s apples to oranges. In terms of social anxiety and sex, women respond very differently to porn than men. That’s not a value judgment.
Porn makes women want to have more real sex, and is statistically associated with having more active sex lives, and more partners. Makes sense, when you realize that porn encourages a casual sex mindset, and women have a very easy time finding casual sex partners. It is about lowering inhibitions and social repression.
In men, porn is associated with masturbation and having less active sex lives, with fewer partners.This also makes sense. Men have a refractory period. Men have to be the pursuer when it comes to casual sex, which takes work and involves greater risk of rejection. Men are also more sensitive to the Coolidge effect and the contrast effect than women, which may affect their assessment of possible mates.
There have been plenty of studies on this to back me up.
“And how many women will actually be interested in a guy who goes to a crafts group??”
Alright, I agree about the sewing circle…but I have seen this work well when it comes to ballroom dancing, cooking, and art classes (painting, sculpting). I also know a lot of religious women who would love to find a like-minded man who attends service. It’s not much different from a woman who goes to sports events or takes up traditionally male activities as a way of engaging with the type of men she likes.
If you want to catch fish, find a spot full of them.
Leigh said: “It’s apples to oranges.”
Sexist assumption.
and said: “Porn makes women want to have more real sex”
Porn makes me want to have more real sex. I’m not a woman.
I don’t watch much porn because I’m not interested in seeing some other guy’s junk, or to watch him doing what I would like to be doing at that time. Nude photos, ok, porn, not so much.
and said: “Men have to be the pursuer when it comes to casual sex, which takes work and involves greater risk of rejection.”
Exactly. And where is women’s lib in all of this? Why are so many women here upset because they can’t find a guy, yet as you even say here, the women do nothing to go out and get one. For some men it is probably just easier on their ego to masturbate than to face constant rejection by women who have unrealistically high mate requirements.
and said: “There have been plenty of studies on this to back me up.”
I’m not disagreeing that men watching too much porn or male porn addiction isn’t an issue. I only take issue with your broad gender brush-strokes.
and said: “I have seen this work well when it comes to ballroom dancing, cooking, and art classes”
Those depend totally on living location. None of those types of classes exist in the city where I live.
I’m in oil country, and pretty much all we have is seedy bars and out-there churches.
and said: “I also know a lot of religious women who would love to find a like-minded man who attends service.”
“Like-minded” being the catch in that sentence.
I don’t attend any of the local churches because the people there are a bit loopy (for lack of a better word) and follow their own church’s rules, so I don’t want to be “unequally yoked” with a loopy woman (you can reference that from the scriptures if you so choose, I studied theology and ancient biblical languages and transliterations for many years, so I’m always open to a good discussion on it).
And here I thought churches were places to go and meet God, not women.
I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with almost everything that you said. And I’m not trying to be argumentative.
i am 41 and had one girlfriend for 5 weeks when i was 20.and no one else sinse.i used to go out with a group of friends when i was 18.and i was the only one who went home alone.i creid for years about it.why me i mean im not an ugly guy.i was always told.6ft tall slim with nice blue eyes but have an underbite,makes me look slightely gummsy.i noticed loking back that i was a more self concious person and that they were non chalont,,,didnt seem to care or give a damn like i did and do.basically to women…your only worth as the level of your confidence to them.it stirs theyre hart,excites them.theyre brains are all hardwired the same,thats a fact.and decency,genuine,good,honest dont even come into it.its a primitive system they work by,and yes bad boy…makes the heart throb.they desire the tribal leader the alpha.women when at most fertile,at the hight of theyre menstrual cycle seek out the most dominant males with the highest testosterone levels for reproduction.its all so complex,when all i ever wanted to do was sit and have a conversation with a woman genuinely.without showing how cool confident or funny i am.jalways b you dont change to fit theyre ideals.being single aint so bad sir.
I am a 55yr old virgin who has never kissed or dated and has no sexual experience. I find that I am now enjoying my virginity more than ever which gives me total freedom and can be empowering. So do not worry about being a 40yr old virgin I passed that mark ages ago. I represent everything virginity stands for and am proud to be a virgin.
What are you doing on this thread?
I passed the 40yr old virgin mark ages ago
I am a 55yr old virgin who has never dated or kissed and has no sexual experience.
I can’t say I know what you mean because I am 27 however I know exactly what you mean virgin/nice guywise because I am one of them..what I don’t get is why all these hot chick’s go back to guys who verbally and physically abuse them. It’s hard to phathom. I guess really in todays society we are the select few we are an elite group of people that nobody can help because all we do is help others….. the help dose not receive help for we can only give help. I try to embrace my loneliness and solitude weather instead getting depressed I use this feeling as a weapon to have a means to get by everyday we have something that not many people have nowdays and that is called purity which is very limited in people now again the proof is all over the place”nice guys finish last” I know it sucks but I like to think of it like this pleasures of the body are limited but there will be far greater experiences in heaven with our Lord Jesus Christ than here on this hell bound earth…
I’m 35. I never experienced any kind of romantic relationship in my whole life. Never dated ever. It seems all I ever learned to be is alone since I’m the guy no woman would ever want.
I’m 23 and a virgin. Male
😐 I just want to meet a nice girl (nice meaning she’s nice towards me, genuine, honest, loving) who likes anime/video games and other nerdy stuff that I may not like or even know about, oh and likes sex(idc if she’s experienced or not, she experienced things with other dudes , cool… she’s experiencing me now and not them ). Someone I feel comfortable with. I can be myself with, she can be herself with. Can tell each other anything. laugh with, do stuff for, take care of, cuddle up with. I’d walk super proud next to her in public, cause she’s awesome and knows I’m awesome and was willing work with my awkward ass self to find that out. I guess someone with in 5 years of my age, either direction could work, the closer the better I think. That’s all I want. I honestly don’t care about much else. If I at least find her attractive, good enough, I’m sure to find many more things attractive as time progresses. If she’s shy , idc. I’m shy, lol who is to judge right? As long as she isn’t mean, dishonest, or likes to fight a lot/drama then I really don’t care.
I feel like a good looking loser if that makes sense. Like in the mirror, I look great. 9/10 -10/10. (i;m not perfect by any means I just have aesthetics as one of my good points)Reactions I get from girls recently (21-23) have been overwhelmingly positive, although only with ones I find attractive/would find attractive *shrugs* not going to complain. The average girls tend to just straight up not talk to me or try their hardest to say as few words as possible and as quickly as possible. When I was younger, girl were just AWFUL towards me. I’m surprised they didn’t just spit in my face lol. Unfortunately I didn’t even talk to a girl until I was 21. So you can say I’m very behind the social learning curve. I have no friends either, so chances of hook ups are zilche. I did ask 6 out though and attempted at 7 (she left before I made it back downstairs to ask her out 🙁 ) I was rejected 4/6 times. Was disappointed. Wasn’t the mortifying experience I was dreading. It felt about as horrible as when you ask someone the time and they are like ” i dunno.” lol.
So I’m a super nerdy guy, with no experience. What’s worse is I don’t even look nerdy not to mention I’m mixed so my skin is darker and by default people are just blown away that I like anything nerdy :\ I feel kind of awkward. Like my outside definitely doesn’t match my inside. I grow facial hair I look like Don Juan or something, I lose it I look like on of those pretty elf guys in video games…. on the inside is this odd, quirky, awkward, nerdy guy. That in of itself I don’t like. I’m don’t look remotely close to what I really am. :\ and I don’t like that, makes me feel 20x more awkward.
D: I just want to find a girl I can love and she loves me. <.< *sigh* I just hope I don’t die a virgin and show friends pictures of me when I was younger, then they discover I’m a virgin and their minds a blown on how why. It feels so bad. Because I look good, I should be getting laid all the time. Though to me it just magnifies the shame I already feel 😐
xD i’d even be willing to meet half way. Die a virgin but not feel so shitty like I do because I have no one. It feels that bad. I’m sure at least some other unfortunate soul understands what I mean by that.
I am 44 and have never had a girlfriend. I am quite ashamed of this fact. I have had a few flings in my life that lasted a week or so but nothing that ever turned into a girlfriend. No female has ever really been interested in me. Women walk right by me and don’t even look at me. I consider myself average looking so I don’t expect them to be knocking down my door but this is shocking. I have much younger cousins that are already married with kids which makes me look pretty bad. My mother even told me once that family members are starting to wonder about me. I have given up hope I will ever meet someone.
There are many of us good men out there that had our relationship go sour, so many of us that had a girlfriend already have been hurt now since so many women today just Can’t commit to just one man anymore and are dating different men all the time. And now that there are so many women today that are very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, and very greedy, it really makes the situation much worst since many of these women today really want the best and won’t settle for less. I would really say that Most women are to blame nowadays, not us.
The situation for western men in the dating scene is becoming hopeless. I find it repugnant that a man especially can be upset about another man being angry about the dysfunctional, no, BROKEN dating scene in America; a dating scene that is totally slanted in women’s favor.
This is all generally simple; most women having trouble finding a man have unrealistic standards/expectations, and/or they going after men who are actually above their looks and status level and don’t realize or refuse to accept that a man like that is going to be dating/banging several women besides her because he can. She finds out, the relationship dissolves, and she’s back into the dating swamp looking for the same type of guy all over again, but this time more picky and more bitter than she was before. Or, the woman is simply a psycho who destroys every relationship she has. Any man who has spent any time dating knows there are A LOT of crazy women out there.
But Men are having trouble for other reasons. Most men having trouble just can’t get a woman, ANY woman at all. Nobody wants him. He doesn’t necessarily smell bad, isn’t 5 foot 2, or poor, or ugly, or weird. You’d be surprise at how many fairly attractive and otherwise normal men still can’t get a date to save their lives. The image of the dateless man in America is misrepresented too often, and that alone is one of the biggest hindrances to this issue ever being worked on. Without being able to accurately identify the types of men having the issue, the issue can never have a solution. FYI, the types of men are every type of man you know. That’s the range, and the problem in numbers is growing. Men are getting restless and the thin veneer of sanity is breaking.
I laugh at the accusations that the reason so many men can’t get a woman is because “they’re all going after super models!” this is total BS. Biologically men are FAR less selective than women, and the average man will have sex with just about any willing woman. Most western women are overweight and certainly not super model material, and yet most of these women have men, even the least attractive and least in-shape women are still getting men and getting them easily.
Bottom line is, once women were able to get better jobs and lessen their dependence on men as financial providers, it changed the dating game entirely. The type of sensible, respectable AVERAGE man that would’ve had women fighting over him in 1950 is now being used by women as just a crying rag and “friend”, but not the guy she wants to sleep with or have a romantic relationship with. This guy could be a good lover and a great provider, but there is no intrigue in settling for that guy. The intrigue is in snagging the “Alpha Male” or at least this generation’s warped idea of what an “Alpha Male” is.
Mo, don’t worry about losing your virginity, just love yourself and focus on how to be more out going. Don’t throw away your virginity to someone you don’t love.
Thumbs up to that.
Im a 26 year old virgin going to sie this way.Do what makes you happy.
Then again many women that we met over the years were Losers anyway.
i”m 46 and never been with a living soul.it just is”nt meant to be for some.
Why does it seem whenever you hear of a person who is 25+ years of age, or 30+ years of age and never had a relationship before or still a virgin, it is almost always guys, men you hear of? Why does it seem men are more at risk at becoming like this than women are? Are women just less vocal about it, more silent about it than men are? Can anybody think of any women in that age bracket who have never had a boyfriend before? I would imagine the reason why women are probably less likely than men are to end up in that situation is because men are still expected to approach and be the initiators
It really depends who you are and who you spend time with, but believe me there are whole host of 25+ virgin women, women who never had boyfriends etc. Part of the reason you might not hear about it is often women speak about these things in women only spaces. They don’t feel as comfortable publicly talking about it. Especially because often men will come along and insist that women have it easier and that they could have sex if they wanted to etc and basically dismiss their experiences.
Coming from the nerd community believe me, such women absolutely exist, though. Often they’re the ones who have social anxiety, or who also aren’t stereotypically good looking and so guys never approach them (being an unattractive woman means basically being invisible to men).
so you are saying you are absolutely sure, know of women that are in that age bracket, 25+, even 30+ years of age, who are either a virgin or never had a boyfriend before?
There really should be a network of some kind.
Andrew? You also have to keep in mind that there are more men in this world than women. Therefore, women are really not at the disadvantage as for being guaranteed a lifelong partner early in life.
Well, I guess it goes to show you that abstinence-only education should not be taught in the public school system, because it only sets young people up to live a prospective long-life of spinsterhood. Then again, perhaps virginity after 40 years old is a blessing in disguise to the world as a whole. The world population is currently at 7 billion people, and the Earth only has a capacity to house 9 billion people before serious problems with our ecological resources begin to hit hard.
So what the original replier to the author is saying is that even if, due to situations beyond my control, have left me still a virgin at the age of 37 and for some unknown or financial reason cannot get out from under my parent’s roof, I have absolutely no hope and no chance with women. I’m aware of what I’m missing out on life, and I really want to make passionate hot sex with a woman. It’s gotten to the point that I can’t concentrate on my goals in life, all I’m aware of is that I feel left behind and banished from humanity. And to top it all off, my parents don’t allow me to have friends of any kind over unless they are home and know what I’m doing at all times. Feeling like I’m under constant surveillance makes me not want to go out and meet women at all. I’d rather be dead.
Eh…focus on your goals in life first, and then when you’ve accomplished everything you want to accomplish, go for the women.
Think about someone like Bill Gates. If he hadn’t been single most of his life, he probably never would have become a billionaire. Women suck up a lot of your time.
A few tips:
1. Stop wanting sex so bad. Sex without love is not fulfilling, especially when you’ve been alone most of your life. Having sex with a prostitute will not make you feel less lonely. You only think sex is the cure. But what you should really be looking for is the full package — love, commitment and sex. That’s called marriage. No one deserves any less.
2. The match-making game is horribly inefficient, and it’s easy to end up without a match due to bad luck. And while it’s easy to blame yourself for being 40 and single, that is because you really really want to believe that there is something you can do to have changed that, but the truth is it all might really be bad luck that you haven’t met the right girl. Despite the advent of online dating, it’s still really hard to meet the right people to date. People start dating based on shallow things (looks, hobbies, etc.) because that’s the best information they have to go on until they’ve gotten to know the person.
3. At the same time, there may be specific things holding you back that are not just bad luck. Every situation is different. One thing is that if your focus is on just getting sex, that may be the problem. Certain kinds of guys are more likely to get casual sex, and the guys and girls who are into this have made a game for you to play. Stop playing their game. It’s rigged, and just because you’re not them doesn’t mean they’re having more of a fulfilling life. As cliche as it sounds, it’s much more worth your time trying to find your soulmate — someone who will truly understand you, and wants you for more than sex.
4. Be yourself for once. If you feel most comfortable being old-fashioned with regard to kissing, sex, etc. then you should be old-fashioned. The thinking is that some women will appreciate this (whether they’re a minority or not is besides the point), but the ones who expect you to move faster will never really pick you because they can sense that you’re being fake if you try to be the way they want you to be. Remember that if you try to earn a lady’s respect, that almost assures you that you won’t get it. You must presume that you have a right to be respected, and no need to earn it.
I never had any relatioship nor was I married?
My life started out as being an unwanted child and my mom made sure I knew that and understood that fact. There was no love and mom and dad constantly fight and argued, l hated them for that what I remember is hiding in my closet for hours. Then my parents dumped me with my grand parents, these people were great but very poor. We lived in very modest house with a horse barn attached. At 17 I ran away and I lied about age and joined the military. I was stationed viet nam for 3 years where I saw more hate and all the violence that a war offers. When I got home I really had no where to go, but found a job working nights and basically alone, which was good for me. First few weeks I slept in people’s cars who forgot to lock them. My boss found out and offered me a place to stay in his 2 car garage, and I could take a shower and wash clothes. Those folks offered me what they could at the time. There family went out of there way to help me. I’m now 71 and still visit there children. I never had a date or found a women to love and to get married nor did I want to marry. I hate the thought of getting married, I just wanted to alone.
I am a 45 year old female and I have had several long-term relationships. I am a single mother of a teenager. I am very outgoing and I do many social things with my friends. I met a very nice 42 year old man at a music festival in my town. He approached me. I could tell he had a few drinks but he seemed sweet and he asked me to be friends on FB. I did agree to do that. We talked on FB by private message for weeks and we got to know many things about each other that way. He finally asked me out through FB and we had an old-fashioned date which I loved…meaning he picked me up at my house and we went to dinner and we talked for a long time. He was very funny and smart and nice and he asked me for a second date at the end of the first date which was great! We have had several dates since then and we communicate often by text or FB and an occasional phone call between dates. What I have learned about this wonderful man was that he told me he is extremely shy around women and he has not had a relationship after the age of 18 because he cannot talk to women. He has a successful job as a Supervisor and his friend circle is full of people he has known his whole life.
I appreciated that he shared this information with me and I respect him for that. I find him to be a very honest and endearing person anyway and I was glad he told me. He said he doesn’t have a problem talking to me in person and I think it’s because we got to know each other at first after talking for weeks on social media. The thing that has been connecting me emotionally to him is that he does share things about himself that other guys might not and that causes me to reciprocate and value the time we spend together. He tells me he would like to be physically intimate with me but does not know how to initiate things so he wants me to help in this aspect. I found that his willingness to communicate that to me makes a difference because I am able to see things from his perspective and it’s a mature attitude. Plus, we have the same sense of humor and when it comes to potentially awkward situations, having a sense of humor is a must. When all else fails, women love a man who can be light-hearted and see the humor in things…it’s playful and it’s a turn-on!
I have never dated a shy guy before and I am so happy that he took the initiative to talk to me (even with liquid courage, ha ha). I appreciate and am attracted to his nice guy qualities because they equal quality as a person…he is respectful of himself and to me, he is funny and smart, he is has hobbies and interests he likes to share info about, he loves his family and friends, and he is willing to be open and vulnerable.
As an outgoing girl, I approach guys and have had my share of rejection too but it doesn’t stop me from trying. I just figure nothing tried, nothing gained. In this I instance, I didn’t do the approaching but I was open to getting to know someone in a different way through that person’s comfort level (FB) and I am happy I did. So please don’t get discouraged shy guys…there are women out there who will appreciate you just as you are! Just keep trying and remain open-minded so you won’t miss out on potential possibilities! 🙂
Mo,
You attract what you want and what you don’t want. The minute you have to explain your sexual desires in a way that sounds embarrassing and shameful will only lead to bad results. Never apologize for being a sexual being EVER. Never let society dictate what you want and don’t want. Just go for it! If they don’t want to be with you only a ton other women on the planet who WILL!
Stop wasting time and go enjoy life! You deserve to be with a woman and enjoy a fun filled sex life together! Believe in YOU!
Nobody deserves anything. Virgins have a strange belief that sex is deserved. It is not deserved.
I’m over 50’s now & never married or had a girlfriend due to suffering with anxiety & shyness all my life.
As a man you’re primarily a prop and provider. The notion that a woman is capable of loving a man as a person is a steaming pile of shit. As a man, your primary responsibility is to be tall, look good in a suit and buy her shit. If you’re short but have very good facial features and a lot of money, then you’ll be fine. If you’re short, aren’t especially handsome, but have a ton of money, you’ll be okay. If you’re short, not especially handsome, and make less than $100,000 per year then you might as well stop wasting your time and resort to prostitutes and Asian massage parlors, because no woman is ever going to go through the routine of pretending to care about you.
Exactly.
Short, bald, ugly, lean, hygienic, smart, skilled, hardworking = zero success with girls
Time to get a hooker so I don’t die a virgin.
You guys are clueless. It has nothing to do with that but more with the confidence you project and how you feel about yourself inside.
I’m 46 & I’ve never had a long term relationship. I went out with my 42 yr old supervisor when I was 23. I had no attraction but she liked me & that was enough. She moved before we got to the sex part. Probably a good thing. I would’ve been lost. I don’t go out with anyone else until I was 39. We hung out as friends but that was it. Probably a good thing as she wasn’t the best person.
I both cases I went out with people because they were interested & it strikes my ego. I’ve never gone out with someone I was truely interested in. I’m at peace with it. I’m not a prude but they idea of 5 of 6 girlfriends never appealed to me. I couldn’t go out with anyone unless we were already friends. Makes it tough to date. I’m good though. It’s not for everyone I guess.
I am 44 and never had a serious, long term girlfriend. I went on 2-3 dates maximum with girls and the most we did was French kiss. Also, I never went out on dates in my 20s and 30s.
Basically, I am a loner and avoid people, unless they fully have gained my trust. I used to think it was not normal not to have had a serious girlfriend at minimum at my age, but ONLY you can determine what is BEST for you.
The bottom line is that I am happy. Your HAPPINESS is what matters the most. Maybe I will meet someone tomorrow, 5 years, 10 years, or even 20 years down the road that I will have that SPARK with. That would be good. However, as long as I am HAPPY, that is the key!
I am a 56yr old male virgin who has never dated and has no sexual experience.
A virgin man who has never had a relationship, never saw porn and hasnt thought of another woman. Thats a true dream man. If his mind and body are pure then no matter what he will be handsome. And id ge avoids social networks, all the better. Most women these days are ego sucking whores who thrive on seeking attention and have slept around. They are not worthy of this pure man – a man who when he makes love to a partner of equal morals will experience the cleanest hottest love. They will not need to worry about what past partners they need to compete with, they dont need to worry about who their partner was with before. A man this pure is the best lover.
The real issue here societys conception about sex. Its seen that if you had it and have it often youre an alpha legend. If you dont people try figuring out what THEY think is wrong with you. Im an indian woman and sadly this mentality is ruining my culture as well. But let me shed a bit of reality here. First i will start with the true story of a man named bhagat puran singh. He was born out of wedlock and felt horribly guilty for this. Due to this, he chose to stay celibate his entire life. He was not a loser. He was a great man who adopted a handicapped man and raised him as his own son. Then there is nikola tesla.
Having to resort to giving yourself to a prostitute so you think you end your misery, or resorting to telling the world about your wifes orgasmsand wetness, or french kissing. Really. As though these are things that you think will give you any social value?! Haha wow. That shows the lack of maturity. You wound up at the same place in a similar rut. Didnt get you too far.
Anyway, to be bluntly honest – id much rather be with a man who has no sexual experience, has not had feelings for another woman, has not watched another woman having sex or her privates, and has not touched another womans body. A man who has been with another woman to whatever degree (except truly platonic non sexual friendship as if she were another man), puts too many doubts my mind. Who does he REALLY feel most attracted to? Why couldnt he stay with the first one? What diseases could he be carrying from one of these previous women? Yuck. Id much rather have a man who we can explore each others body together. A man with no sexual experience is a big turn on for me. A man who has not tainted himself with another woman, whose mind and body are showroom floor pure. A man who did not feel he had to be with a human equivalent of a public toilet – he has self control and mature enough not to need this smut. These attempts at skirting insecurities exhibit a whole host of disturbing mental issues. I honestly dont need expensive jewelry clothes plastic surgery or other typical womens stupid excuses. For me this pure man would be the jackpot and i would be incredibly satisfied – (hed also be busy and heavily rewarded wink wink 🙂 )
Societys views toward sex needs to change. The world would be a different placd entirely just with this!
(ps before anyone feels the need to ask i am over 30.)
I know i will b recieving negative crap from some, but i dont give a rats arse. Im going to be blunt and say whats got to be said. Its far better than some of whats been said here and i really dont care because im laughing at some of you and cheering on others.
I am a 56yr old male virgin who has never dated and has no sexual experience to be quite honest I am happy to be a virgin and remain a virgin. I don’t get this big thing about sex but that is probably because I am a virgin and proud to be a virgin. The probability is that I will remain a virgin for life and that is fine by me.
We live in an over-sexed, perverted society. It’s just a short little act, not even anything to write home about. Have a cup of tea instead folks.
Steve,
It’s just a short little act, not even anything to write home about.
You haven’t been with the right woman.
@ Steve,
Really? I’ve had a good bit of fun in that society over the course of a lifetime. Then again, I suppose “oversexed and perverted” are in the eye of the beholder.
I agree with Emily; if you think sex is mostly worthless, then you haven’t been with the right woman. Try actually sampling the grapes, before declaring them all sour.
i am over 50 and still a virgin. i also dont care. i gave up over 20 years ago and it was one of the smartest things i ever did
Forget it. Go get a coffee instead and save yourself a disease from all the so-called liberated people who have used that very idea to whore themselves around like a set of genitals attached to an empty brain. Don’t waste your life thinking and yearning for a brief act that will leave you disappointed anyway. Lack of experience will send them running, and you will be back to square one all over again.
You’re doing it wrong.
I am so sorry everyone 🙁 I used this page to express my own bitterness and loneliness with harsh and hurtful words, immature and unkind. total ignorance on my part. There is some great advise here and I was foolish to ignore it with my own blind rage. To those who replied, I thank you and I apologise with great sincerity and bow my head in shame 🙁
Good luck to all those in the predicament outlined here on these pages – I am in this too, and have been so all my life, I don’t know where to vent my feelings sometimes – I usually keep them locked away in a subconscious part of me that does not often leap from the mind onto the page like this. I will have to sort myself out, it is my own crap. Of course sex is not perverse, it is a natural part of life and essential to the progression of every species. Sexually transmitted disease is a damn serious issue and I am so unhappy I just used it so angrily without care or consideration.
im a 37 year old female who’s a virgin…why a virgin..i live in orlando, fl and its literally impossible to meet a guy here- im too pretty and beautiful and men seem to hate me and just want to hurt me.
ive been looking for a boyfriend for 20 years now- found ONE old man who used controlled and tortured me- said i was the hottest woman he had ever seen. He refused sex with me too. I can’t lose my virginity to a random guy- has to be a BF or a FWB i trust- can’t find any of those. Can’t find a steady FWB, or a boyfriend. Most guys leave after the 1st or 2nd date or if I don’t put out. Most jerks out there want to use me and abuse me. No guys ask me out- everyone’s too scared or intimidated and they display that fear with hatred and anger. So being a hot gorgeous horny sexual virgin female, all i get is passive aggressive hatred from 98% of males out there…
I would love to lose my virginity but since im smoking hot it’s just not possible- all men hate me and are jealous or scared of me. you think i could find ONE guy–to be a boyfriend, nope. this is a disgusting crazy and sick society where even the most desirable and sexiest people can be virgins due to all the crazies out there…im still waiting to have a boyfriend one day in life. People tell me im so hot, ask how many bf’s ive had, tell me ive probably been with tons of guys, nope. Its not possible when 99% of men run away from you b/c you’re hot…all i meet are crazy jerks online who want a one night stand. Sick weird society out there…all the men that struggle with women- deserve to b/c if those very men met an amazing good woman they’d reject her or treat her like dirt…men are scumbags
wow very sad jenn, sorry to hear your story
i dont feel much sympathy for men who say they haven’t had a girlfriend- the reason being as a woman ive been on probably 500+ dates. Out of all those dates, none produced a boyfriend. Every insecure male out there rejected me–insecure or not. Ive been rejected by basically every guy ive ever met…and im playboy material- super hot and pretty. Everyone is so damn terrified of me even though i look like any female celebrity they gawk over and worship. men worship celebrities but reject hotter women in real life. I would give every single male a chance- even if he was ugly, not my type. None of these men ever gave me a chance. ive seen 500+ men reject one of the prettiest and nicest women out there and treat her like dirt…and most men do. ive had people tell me im one of the hottest women on the planet- yet im still a virgin b/c i cant find a boyfriend, how crazy is that. No man out there wants to say “that beautiful girl is my gf.” Every man treats me as if im inferior or like trash, or tries to use me. ive never ever rejected a man but every man has rejected me…and i look like salma hayek minus the super large breasts.
im educated, gorgeous, nice kind etc…down to earth, caring- i like fun things, not controlling not bossy–look like a playboy model, not fake..girl next door- no boyfriends ever. im outgoing and fun and every guy insults me, puts me down, treats me like sh*t. men get off on abusing me and watching me suffer…pretty much 99% of men do. If im nice to a guy- he treats me like dirt. trust me we live in a sick society full of scummy crappy horrible evil twisted people…men are some of the most disgusting pathetic people out there..the way they treat amazing women is horrible..
I’m 36 y/o male virgin who is at the end of his rope! Everyday that goes by without having the touch and companionship of a woman is another day in hell! I frequently go on camping and hiking trips by myself and it’s hard to be all one out there by myself with no one to share a campfire with
I would love to meet a virgin man from 40 to 46 years old. I’m not a virgin, but I’m sure the man for me is.
I dated a man who had never had a relationship before and had had one sexual partner once in his life. At first he seemed so wonderful. And then I realized there was a reason he hadn’t been in a relationship.
The subject of the article is and the person giving advice are inferring that the subject of the article is a nice guy and well-adjusted and there’s nothing he has to change… he’s just shy.
Perhaps he’s emotionally unavailable? I say this from experience. I gave my ex every chance imaginable BECAUSE he hadn’t been in a relationship before. I found that he couldn’t take responsibility for his actions, wasn’t accountable, was unable to deal with any conflict, however small. He told me stories about how he had been wronged by women and at the same time had a fairytale idea of what love and connection and intimacy was… And he didn’t respect my boundaries. And he always turned things around on me.
Blame, blame, blame. it was really difficult. I ended up in a world of hurt.
Once again I am 27 always rejected by females and just said to myself god loves me more than a female do and I continue to carry that with me every were I go
I’m 37 and never have a girlfriend. I’ve always been shy, in high school I got classmate to ask one her friends if she was interested in me. she said she would meet me in front of the school. I couldn’t go out to meet her for the life of me I couldnt go outside then her friend was interested me she thought I was cute both of these girls were gorgeous. at 21 years old I got into a car accident and lost my left hand depression hit me so hard loneliness took over. the thing is you would never guess I’m a Virgin I dress nice I take care of my appearance I could of had lost of girlfriends I have zero confidence in myself it sucks and it hurts very much that I’m alone
In a way I can relate to any of you guys.To start of, the odds I have to remain single for the rest of my life are so high. I’m 35 years old, don’t have a good job(I am applying for a good job though), am not that attractive either, never had a girlfriend, but I’ve had sexual intercourse with hookers which by the way it’s not something I am proud of, to top it all off as far as I am concerned I strongly suggest you guys not even think about doing it, not even once to just lose your virginity. I lost it when I was 34, I remember I was so desperate, I felt so lonely because I’d had rejected in so several occasions I couldn’t cope no more. So since my hatred towards women had become an issue and I noticed it had grown in so many levels I decided against my morals, test of values, and christian faith to stop that volcano that was about to exploit inside of me. For now on I’ve had a handfull of meaninless sexual encounters with hookers which I don’t recommend in any way, but I don’t feel as though women owe me something as I see in many of the posts I’ve seen. Perhaps it has to do with my goals, or maybe because I am kinda used to being alone and prolly it’s gonna be my fade. However I always take my time to meet new girls, even if i know I don’t have a freaking chance, maybe her friendship is gonna lead me to a female friend of theirs who will eventually become my soul mate. I don’t lose hope yet. Hang on in there guys, never it’s too late. 🙂
Hi guys I am a 35 year old virgin girl and at times I feel like killing myself. It just feels like the worst thing to ever happen. I also hate my job. I managed to Publish a story book , but it did not sell as many copies as it was supposed to. I wish I could just die a.s.a.p. I fell in love with 2 guys in my entire life but somehow it did not result in marriage. Currently, I am talking to a guy for the past 3 months but at times he just texts me late nights. I suspect he is hiding a girl-friend hence texting me at inappropriate hours. At times I wonder what I am doing on this planet ?It would have been better if I was involved in a job that I loved but that’s not happening. I think I am the biggest loser here so anyone feeling bad can always read this and cheer themselves up! Lol……but I am not laughing.
I’m 46 and never had sex with a woman. I’ve also never had a girlfriend. I’m a highly intelligent man, but not one blessed with good looks or lots of cash (therefore no women give me a second thought).
Someone else in this conversation mentioned that anyone over 35 who’s still a virgin has something wrong with them. I’d have to agree with that. I’ve never even been able to make long-lasting friendships due to the mindfuck my childhood did on me.
I’ll die a virgin. It’s just another thing to add to the fire of my rage that’s building inside. Good things aren’t for me, obviously. The things that are normal for others are insurmountable for me (other than academics). I’m surprised I haven’t done anything drastic to this point.
Hi David:
You are not alone here on this forum.
I’m 35 and am also still technically a virgin. I have done everything-but-all-the-way with men, but due to a sexual disfunction called vaginism which was due to childhood abuse, it hasn’t happened yet. Making lasting healthy friendships was a challenge for a long time. And as for dating… That was a series of car crashes until the combination of introspection, this website and a good sexologist put me on the right path. A relationship has eluded me since i was 22 and i still struggle with the disfunction but it has gotten a lot better.
Have you ever talked about this with a therapist? I know that sounds like a trite question, but it can help you with the rage. I have had moments of great frustration seeing my cohorts seemingly skip into relationships, while I couldn’t make a dating situation last for longer than two months. When you see people your own age hitting all the sexual and relationship milestones and you feel you are being left behind, it can do a number on your self esteem. And if you don’t have close friendships, you don’t get the kind of intimate talk which can make you see that others have had their own struggle regarding these issues. All you see is the facade of the relationship, which can look misleadingly smooth and struggle free, as most people don’t air their dirty laundry in public.
Evan suggests to go the nearest mall and to look around you at the couples walking around. Do the men really ALL look better and more debonair than you? Chances are that they are not. In my case, not ALL the women looked better and more confident than me. That drove the point home for me that it was my internal struggles rather than my ‘value’ on the dating market, something which is highly subjective anyway.
It’s very easy to judge yourself heavily for being alone, and in our down moments nearly everyone on this comment board has done that. And i am not discounting the heavily negative feelings we can have because we don’t have a partner and wish we did, that is very normal and it is a part of being single in a society that praises people for being in a relationship (whether people are happy or unhappy within it doesn’t seem to factor as much). But we all have worth, outside our relationship skills, and therefore so do you.
I’m a 37 year old man and I have never kissed a woman — and no woman has ever tried to kiss me. I stay in good shape, dress well and have a great sense of humour, but I never approach women because I’m realistic enough to know that there’s a 100% chance I’ll be completely rejected by every woman I might try to introduce myself to. I have many woman friends, but no matter what anyone tells me, the fact is, I cannot see how it could be remotely possible for any woman to be attracted to me in *that* way — so I’m doomed to remain chronically single.
Paul
I would second Malika’s suggestion to see a therapist. Not because there’s anything ‘wrong’ with you (or I can pretend to understand what you’re going through), but I see a lot of negative thought patterns and catastrophising in the way you speak about yourself and dating.
Dating certainly involves rejection (for all of us!), but if you can get to a place, with some professional assistance, where you can put ‘rejection’ in its rightful place (just their opinion of not being the right fit), things will get better for you.
Also, have you tried online dating? A virtual approach online is far less scary than approaching a strange woman on the street.
Hi Marika – thanks for your reply. I do not find the prospect of approaching daunting in the slightest because the outcome every time would be guaranteed rejection. Given this, there is no point in bringing more pain – however temporary – into my life. I have not tried online dating for the same reason. I have seen several therapists in the past, none of whom were able to help.
Paul
Have you ever missed out on a job you wanted? Did you keep applying for jobs and attending interviews?
Have you ever missed out on buying or renting a property? Did you keep applying for properties, going to open houses etc.?
I understand that dating is more emotionally charged and less vital to survival than a job and shelter. I also understand that you appear to have had no success at all to date. But in reading your way of thinking as regards to dating, I can understand why. Much like recruiters & real estate agents, women aren’t going to turn up at your house and ask you out. If you won’t approach women and won’t go online, then it’s pretty certain that you will remain single. If you do approach women, there’s a greater than 0% chance that someone will say yes (even if it’s 0.01% – although I personally think that’s artificially low – it’s still greater than 0%). If you didn’t still have at least some hope, you wouldn’t be here on this site.
Google Karl R’s comments when you get a chance. He’s a guy who admitted to not having great success with women in his younger years, he changed his perception and mindset and expectations – he’s now happily married. I’m not there yet, but I do know that if you are steeped in negativity, you have no chance of making things better. I also know that the only way of getting better at dating is to keep practising your dating skills. All the best.
“Knowing” that there is a 100% chance you’ll be rejected by every woman, everywhere, ever isn’t realistic at all.
To Marika and Tyrone – thank you for your advice. There is zero evidence that any woman is or has ever been interested in me, and as such I logically conclude that none (0%) are / have been. Given this, and as well that some (not all) women will accuse a man of harassment for just smiling and saying a friendly ‘Hi’, I believe attempting to approach any woman from my position of having zero experience is extremely risky. As such, it’s not just the guarantee of rejection which stops me from approaching, but the real possibility of a false accusation being leveled against me.
I’m 43 and have never asked a woman out in my life and no woman has ever given me the slightest indication she’s interested in me. I will never make a first move because rejection would always be guaranteed.
I have dated many women but really never had a steady girlfriend at all. And all the women that i have dated always made some kind of excuse not to be in a steady relationship themselves. They would tell me that i am too young to be in a relationship since i was in my early twenties at that time when i first stated to go out which most women even at my age just wanted to sleep around with different men all the time. I always hated to go out all the time since even though that i was in my early twenties i still was hoping to have a steady girlfriend to have a real relationship with which it still never happened. I started going out at the age of 21 which was back in 1975 which like i just mentioned i really hated it from the very beginning since it was like playing a game that you can’t win at all. Women in my time were the same age as well since they never wanted a steady boyfriend at all either since i just mentioned that they just wanted to sleep around with as many men as they can as well as getting wasted and being completely drunk all the time. A very excellent reason why i never had a steady girlfriend at all since i really had no reason to blame myself anyway since most of the women in my time were real slutty to begin with unfortunately. And going to the bar at that time sure didn’t help the situation either since like they say you pay for what you get. Since i was born in 1954 which i didn’t start going out until 1975 when i did turn 21 that year which really sucked from the very beginning for me. I really never had any friends at all since they were always getting in trouble which i never needed that at all. So it was very hard for me to get invited to parties since i really had no friends to invite me anyway which it would’ve made it much easier to maybe just to meet a nice girl to really connect with which never happened unfortunately. So when i moved from New York To New Jersey which i eventually met my Ex Wife thinking at that time that i had finally found real love since we were together for almost 15 years until she cheated on me which destroyed my marriage after that. She turned out to be the low life pathetic loser that i never knew since this really hurt me real bad since it took a very long time for me to heal. Now going out all over again is the hardest part for me since i am now at the age of 63 which makes it very difficult to meet a good woman more my age since they’re always having a lot of trouble with their grown up older children which they just don’t want to be in a relationship anymore since i really can’t blame them at all either since they been through enough themselves. Very extremely difficult to find real love as you can see for many of us good men still looking and hoping since many of us men in the same situation will never give up at all. Sucks to really be single and alone especially at are age when many of you really are a lot younger than us which you should make the right choice before you get involved with someone. Good luck.
” i never had a steady girlfriend at all since i really had no reason to blame myself anyway since most of the women in my time were real slutty to begin with “
” I really never had any friends at all since they were always getting in trouble which i never needed that at all. “
“Now going out all over again is the hardest part for me since i am now at the age of 63 which makes it very difficult to meet a good woman more my age since they’re always having a lot of trouble with their grown up older children “
Have you considered the possibility that the problem might be you and NOT be all the other people in the world?
Why should i blame myself to begin with? Most women unfortunately today are just down right very horrible since they just don’t know how to have a normal conversation with us men when we will try to talk too them. And it appears to me that many of these women at one time or another had been very badly abused by the men that they were with which now they really think that many of us men out there are very bad. There are many of us good men that really do know how to treat a good woman with a lot of love and respect which they just don’t want to give many of us men a chance at all.
James, you’ve posted on here 61 times (under this name). It’s the same sad sack story every time about how you’re a nice guy and women suck. Go pick up a copy of “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Dr. Robert Glover and come back when you’re done, okay? Good luck.
“Most women unfortunately today are just down right very horrible since they just don’t know how to have a normal conversation with us men when we will try to talk too them. ”
What’s the context? Every date I’ve been on I’ve had a normal conversation, scintillating not often, sometimes banal, women always seem to be good at small talk. That’s basically a normal conversation when you just meet someone.
Sex, politics, religion, etc. generally not a conversation a person wants to have until they really know you or feel a connection.
“If you do approach women, there’s a greater than 0% chance that someone will say yes (even if it’s 0.01% — although I personally think that’s artificially low — it’s still greater than 0%).”
Same thing.
I didn’t lose my virginity, until after I turned 40, with a woman who I thought was my girlfriend. I wasn’t a believer in casual sex. Still not. Up to that point, we were together for a year. I thought this was ok. We were monogamous. When she dumped me, just over a year ago, she informed me, we were “just friends”. After doing a bunch of reading, to determine what kind of relationship, we actually had, “FWB”, was the closest explanation I could find. I was disappointed. Before she came along, I knew something was missing, but it didn’t bother me that much. Now I’m just miserable. Don’t be too hard on yourself. “Normal” is over rated. Don’t force it. One important rule: Women aren’t responsible for mens sex.
Advice can be difficult for someome who always gets rejected by women.
This is becoming very common now. There are so many members of both sexes that just cannot handle all the b.s. in dealing with people in the 2000’s. Furthermore, women who marry eventually want to start a family. There are too many reasons now for not getting married – too much that can go wrong that will drag one through doors he or she never thought possible. Offspring that are born with special needs can really drain financial resources, no matter how well off the parents are.
50 and more years ago, this might not have been the case. There was far more respect of one another in society in all regards. What people said was what they meant. WWII generations and values collapsed in the 1960’s, and nothing worthwhile came up to replace it.
It’s time we rethink how much things like looks and other physical shortcomings play a role in situations like these. If a man is any combination of short, fat, facially ugly or disabled, he’s gonna have a VERY hard time. If he’s also poor? Then he’s _really_ in for a rough time! Women are every bit as visual as men, and it’s time we stopped denying it. A man’s looks matter, and they matter A LOT more than we’re comfortable admitting. The way my dating life changed after fixing my own looks proved this point – completely, irrefutably and DRAMATICALLY.
Before then, I was just like this guy. Spent many years devouring self-help books and putting them into practice, yet it didn’t help. Friends would try to set me up, and it was always the same story. “He’s a great guy, but just not my type”. I endured over 20 years of constant rejection and frustration despite my best efforts. By the way, I DIDN’T DARE GO AFTER THE BEAUTIFUL ONES. Made that mistake once in high school and got a brutal lesson in what my league was. “Staying in your lane” wasn’t my problem.
Fast forward to today. TWO years of bodybuilding and $18,000 in plastic surgery proved FAR more effective than TWENTY years of trying to improve my “inner beauty” enough that someone could overlook my physical appearance! I went from constant rejection, to being overwhelmed with options and not knowing how to handle it.
Most people never experience both sides of the fence, going from “goose” to “swan”, and that plays a huge part in why so much dating advice is, quite frankly, bullshit. Looks matter, and if you don’t make that hurdle first, you ain’t going anywhere with her. Point blank and period.
So much dating advice has basic attractiveness requirements attached for it to work, and we’re doing more harm than good by not acknowledging this. When a guy is in his 30s and 40s, yet never had a girlfriend, he’s either got serious problems with his looks or something mental going on.
I completely agree about the importance of looks for men. One of my all time favorite shows just returned to tv – Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Those men work MIRACLES with men’s appearance. Many men who seem unattractive at first blush can go through an amazing transformation with a good hair cut and updated clothes that fit well.
I’m 37 and have never had a girlfriend or sex — or even been kissed. I’m not the kind of guy who’s willing to pay for it — which sadly, is the only way I could ever experience any form of physical intimacy. No woman could ever want me, so I never ask women out because rejection — at a bare minimum is always guaranteed — if not worse (she’d likely accuse me of harassment just for smiling and saying Hi).Online dating is a complete waste of time for me — no woman would ever look at me — and if I were to message a woman, there is no chance whatsoever I’d get a reply. Other guys get dates, girlfriends, etc., because they are attractive men — at least to somebody. I am fundamentally unattractive to women, so please don’t tell me that dating is a numbers game, to gain confidence, or to put myself out there and get rejected by every woman out there. There is zero chance any woman could be sexually attracted to me, so there is no point in trying.
A study showed 49% of women would date virgins. lol
More like less than 1%.
To answer the guy who is 40 and doesn’t have a girl friend or never had sex! Stay the way you are ! I find women in general the one who wear the pants not the guy, he has nothing to say in a marriage. I’ve been married 50 years and only had sex a few times, maybe the last 40 years or so without. I like the last 40 years, I’m not interested in her and sex, I was honest I told her my feelings. Of course there was all this drama but that was just to bad. She was welcome to leave any time she wanted but still hasn’t. I have to say I’m not gay or interested in any one else, that would be lame and inhuman.
Hit the gym, get swole. Become aesthetic and at least a few women will make very blatant moves.
Buy clothes that accentuate your now v-tapped torso and powerful legs. Get a tan(but don’t overdo the tanning beds if you use those). If you are balding or if your hair is thinning, get an hair transplant. Dye your hair if it’s going grey/white.
Give up on trying to get with women half your age. Try to get with women your own age or older.
Lower your standards and date overweight/obese women, and above all don’t despair. Throughout history millions of men, for one reason or another, didn’t managed to get laid or to get a wife.
There’s nothing wrong with you, it’s just how things are for many men who are physically unattractive or too shy to make a move, and just enjoy your life. Don’t become fixated on your ”virginal” status.
Allen at #92
The majority of men are obese. That means that they’re not exactly attractive. If women were only interested in hot men, they would go decades without a date let alone a husband, a father for their kids, or a guy to be in a FWB with.
I’ve met men who complain that women are not interested in them, that no one finds them to be attractive, but what I realized over the years is that they actually mean, ”women out of my league don’t want anything to do with me, as I can’t get them based off my looks, or personality, or money and so I’m going to ignore the overweight women who honestly want to date me.”
Every guy can get a girlfriend. Every guy can get sex, and I’m not talking about the paying-kind-of-sex. There’s way too many men who aim too high and fall short, and when they are rejected by women who are conventionally attractive these guys lash out and complain that women have standards too high or that they themselves, the men, are unloveable and that they’re going to spend the rest of their lives alone.
No, bro. That’s not how it is in real life.
@Sea
Actually, it is much more difficult for men to get laid than women because women are the gatekeepers to sex. If we want to talk attempting to date out of their league, that is the standard mode of operation for 80% most of the female population because women find 80% of the male population to be of less than average attractiveness. There are several studies that bear this one out. I am lucky enough to be part of the 20% of men in my age cohort who women find to be of at least average attractiveness. My dating life is radically different than than of most of my single peer-age male friends. The 80% of men who women consider to be of less than average attractiveness compete for the bottom 20% of the female population until a member of the bottom 80% of the female population is ready to settle. There is no such thing as a female INCEL.
I have learned in recent years most guys are not getting laid anymore. Is everyone drinking the kool-aid? Women have set their expectations impossibly high and they like to pretend we men are the ones with the problem. Wake up. The female gender is on a warpath of empowerment and political correctness. All of this is tied together.
Hi, I’m Richard and I’m 39 this month and I’ve never had a girlfriend or had sex, when I was younger I was shy around girls and didn’t like asking them out in case I embarrassed them or upset them in some way, since then I’ve asked several women out over the years but I get the same answer back each time, ”your a nice chap with a heart of gold who deserves to find someone…but”, I’m always too much of a friend or too much of a nice chap or just not my type. My problem is I’m only average looking and going bold, I have no confidence when asking women out as I’ve always been let down, I’ve only been on 2 dates with women and both of them the female only went on a date with me to make another guy jealous, at school I was bullied for being the only lad in my class that hadn’t (apparently) had a girlfriend or had sex, yet I’ve seen and know Some absolute horrible men who can get girlfriends like they’re going out of fashion and think to myself why are they constantly getting girlfriends yet I can’t even get one. Don’t get me wrong I’m happy with my life and have lots of female friends who I help you when they need someone but that’s the problem I’m always just a friend.
your not alone mate, I know how what it is like too to be 43 yrs of age and be in the same situation, No Girlfriend, still a virgin, haven’t even been on a date. U know what though, we just have to keep on doing the best we can for ourselves, keep our heads hold up high and don’t look back wishing, because that sucks.
Hi Evan – I’m a guy in the same boat as the OP – except I’m 44 – and like him, I’ve have never had sex or a relationship. You tell him that among the things he hasn’t done and that have held him back is “not seeing yourself as a sexual being”. I understand what a sexual being is – but I have never been able to see myself as one. I really want to, but have no idea where to start.
I found it extremely heartening to read Anonymous Editor’s personal account as I have strict religious beliefs that restrict me from having sex before marriage. I have not been successful in finding a partner for that reason. Like he said, I think there is too much emphasis on sex rather than on getting to know each other as individuals and finding true compatibility. With the last man I saw (or boy) I decided to not tell him and see how we travel together with no pressure. But, if you are trying to adhere to certain beliefs and they aren’t, then this approach does NOT work. You begin to form an attachment until boom! and they can’t deal with your personal expectations. Don’t kid yourself, they need to know from the beginning!
At 65 I’m still a male virgin. Being Catholic had a lot to do with it. We’re not allowed to have sex outside marriage. Nothing I did or had attracted anyone. I had to wait till mid30s to date anyone. I had no car, no real income. After five dates using personal ads, I quit. It wasn’t worth the effort anymore. Last date was at 46, I knew the girl, it was lunch, and she made me miserable for 45 min. Sorry I’m out. Dating is really only for people who want marriage and family. If you don’t want that think twice. You may be wasting your time. I only feel lonely on holidays, birthdays, weekends, and I try to pass the time wisely. I know I’m not ever going to find anyone now, time is up. I had colon cancer and I must wear an ostomy bag. No women want to sleep with that. Imagine sex with that in your way. After 35 there is not much left in the dating pool. Your best years are 18-30, but without money or a car I missed out. I was earning a degree and fighting ulcerative colitis. Often I feel cursed. Playboy mags got me through those years. While I know I missed a lot in life due to illness, at least I never had kids out of wedlock, broke a woman’s heart, had affairs, endured a divorce, paid child support and alimony. I’ll always wish I could have had a few girlfriends, but no one was interested. I was invisible and in the friend zone. It was hopeless. A modeling agency owner told me I was a five at 46. Today I’m probably a two. now.Women in America want money, power, fame in males says Tom Leykis. Add to that you better be tall and under 40. Most men don’t have those things, and we’re discarded. We have a lonely and loveless society now. So glad my dating days are over–it was always a nightmare to go out with strangers. Some of us just aren’t meant to partner. At my funeral no one will be there either. Tough–I missed the train. I still wonder why morals, decency, and kindness count so little today. Women aren’t attracted to that.
I am in a similar situation, but going to be 41 soon. I have been on dates with women, and held hands/hugged before, as well as kissed a few times, but that’s it. I have a lot of love to give and the more time that passes the more all of this rejection, lack of sex and love is breaking me. I do my best, I am a gentleman, I “put put myself out there” I have good taste in music and am relatively in shape, a good height and things like that, I can’t understand why nobody wants me. I can’t even get drunk and pick up women from the bar. I feel like such a massive failure. Someone set me up with a lovely lady, I live in Chicago, I am nice