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Well, let me clarify: I have no shortage of “dates”. I guess I must be in reasonable shape because NOBODY can guess I’ve even had four kids, or that I’m even 34 (I get asked out by guys in their early 20s- I feel like I should read them a story and tuck them into bed… not GET into bed with them, uh!). I have an outgoing personality and seem to be asked out a lot… we usually go on a few dates, everything is going wonderful… but nobody ever COMMITS. I’m not talking about church bells, but just to an actual relationship.
I am SICK of feeling used. I am sick of being treated like a piece of ass, and treated like I must be desperate because I have kids. I’m tired of guys treating me like I should be grateful if they even stick around for five minutes. Even if I really take my time getting to know someone before we become intimate… it seems that sex is all they continue to want. Don’t hear from him for days, I assume it’s over…then a text with, “hey are you home tonight?” Grrrr.
What? Do I need to be a nun in order to find someone who can actually see a relationship with me? Is it unreasonable that I am hoping someone could take me seriously or see my worth? I’ve been in a terrible relationship before and honestly now, I’d rather be alone than with the wrong guy. I believe I have a lot to offer – I am caring, kind, warm, loyal and intelligent. There is more to me than a MILF.
I am not looking for a father for the boys; they have one. I am not looking for a provider; I provide very well for myself. I just want a friend and a companion and someone who I have chemistry and intellectual compatibility with.
I am seriously at the point of giving up on the whole dating thing… Is it too much of an ask that I could actually meet someone who can see me as a woman, and not just as mother or worse, a bit of bedroom fun? Should I just shelve my desire to find a partner? I know Everest is high, but SOME people get up the damn thing, don’t they?
Ironically- I write Romantic Comedies for a living. I just didn’t think I’d end up stuck in one. 🙁
Cristina
Dear Christina,
Before I give you the pep talk you need, let me first acknowledge the painful truths that you’ve eloquently outlined above. I’m sure many other women can relate.
Having four kids under the age of 9 is a huge handicap. I’d try to spin it in a slightly more positive way, but I can’t. As a screenwriter, I don’t know if you live in LA or not, but this is a town where people don’t grow up for a really long time. I got married at 35 and had kids at 37 and 39 and I was ahead of most of my friends. There’s no way that I — or most men who don’t have their shit together — would willingly enter into a relationship with a woman who has so many other responsibilities, the way all moms do.
At risk of making myself look bad, I once dated a single mom of a two-year-old. She was smart, she was sexy, she was financially independent — and she had no time to give to me. At the time, when I was 33, I blamed her for this, thinking that if she liked me more, she’d make a greater effort. In fact, it had nothing to do with me. What I didn’t know then is that kids suck up every second of free time you’ve got, and that you have to work extra hard to create me-time, much less couple-time. Ultimately, all I wanted from that single mom was to hook up, because that’s all I felt she could give me. Whether it’s fair or not is debatable, but that’s how I felt at the time. I’d venture to guess that your sex-oriented guys feel the same way. It’s not you they don’t want; it’s your lifestyle.
You shouldn’t quit because single men your age want sex and more time. You should just find a guy who is looking for a Brady Bunch family, who sees sex as the icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.
Maybe your ex shares custody and gives you weekends off, but I think we can all agree that women with four kids have less available time than women without four kids. And if the greatest gift a woman can give a man is her time, who are men going to gravitate towards — the harried mom who has to manage four lunches, babysitters, soccer practice, and bedtime routines — or the one who is blissfully unencumbered by such essential responsibilities? Put yourself in their shoes and it’s pretty easy to see.
The fact that you’re caring, kind, loyal, warm, and intelligent means that you have a lot going for you and will ultimately make a guy very happy. So instead of giving up on the whole thing — which, as you know — is incredibly shortsighted, given that you have 50 more years on this earth, how about you change focus?
Middle-aged divorced men understand what it’s like to be you. Single guys in their mid-30s who want to have their own biological kids in four years don’t. They want to take spontaneous romantic trips to Vegas, which is something that’s hard to do with four children of your own.
Instead of dating cute 34-year-old single guys who don’t have kids, how about you date cute 43-year-old guys who are in the exact same spot in life, who understand your predicament, who have obligations of their own, and who will be delighted to meet a woman who gets THEM.
You shouldn’t quit because single men your age want sex and more time. You should just find a guy who is looking for a Brady Bunch family, who sees sex as the icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.
I promise you, they’re out there.
Today, I’m giving you my new book, “Believe in Love — 7 Steps to Letting Go of Your Past, Embracing the Present, and Dating with Confidence.” and it’s going to forever change the way you view dating, men, and relationships.
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talk to the hand rules says
Hi,
There are still so many men in Los Angeles that are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages to much younger women and they have kids. I know because I see what men ask for online. A lot of men my age over 55, have young children. It is shocking to me. So I stay away from that for the same reasons that men stay away from women with children.. That said, you are right, there are a few men out there that want to blend a family. I have read profiles of men I want to contact but am stopped because they state they prefer women with children.
Sophie says
I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest Christina has to change her type just to clinch someone. That is like urging someone to settle which no-one should do.
Christina, I am in a similar position although just the one child and it is probably more the resigned vibe you are giving off or maybe you are looking too hard. Focus on other stuff and believe Mr Right, whatever he may look like, will turn up one day even if it’s not till the children have flown the nest. Don’t sacrifice who you are because the guys you’be dated so far don’t have the maturity to handle your situation. A woman would take on a guy with 4 kids and hopefully the world will one day change so that the same is true vice versa.
Chance says
Sophie,
How is it unfair to suggest that she considers dating men who are in the same boat as her as opposed to men who don’t have kids? I’m not quite sure I follow your logic. I mean, go for the men you want, but anyone who sees dating someone in the same boat as her as settling will likely struggle due to her lack of awareness.
It seems to be fairly common to see women frustrated about men not wanting a relationship with them because they have kids, but it often appears that these women aren’t considering men that have children as potential partners. Not saying that is the case here, but it often appears that way.
Chantal says
I’m sorry Sophie, I thought you were advocating the unrealistic approach, but you and I agree.
Lia says
If you have spent any time reading this blog, you will realize that Evan doesn’t tell you what you want to hear – he tells you what you need to hear. Whining about how it is “unfair” does not make it untrue. The surest way to end up miserable and alone is to get stuck in how “unfair” it all is. Pointing out how things are unfair and what needs to change so that the dating world can be fair is a ridiculous waste of time. Get over it!!!
Evan is holding up a mirror so that she can see what her situation looks like from the other side. You are suggesting that she cross her fingers and hope real hard and not change anything that she is doing. There’s a name for doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results, it’s called insanity.
How exactly is opening up to guys that will be more excepting of her situation sacrificing herself and who she is??? And your wise clincher for your argument is “hopefully the world will one day change”? Well that’s useful… NOT!
Chantal says
Sophie, you’re not being realistic. One kid is not FOUR. You cannot compare your situation.
That said, Her children are not an appendage – but, SHE chose to have a big family and for whatever reason, got divorced. No, she does not have the same chances that a single woman or one with 1 kids has. It’s time people own up to their choices and stop making believe.
Gina says
I don’t think Evan is suggesting to change her type, but obviously if you keep sticking your finger in the fire and get the same results, doing something different would be a smart idea. The fact is you have to understand statically what Evan is saying, it’s not all of them but if she is able to make small changes to meet her dating goals that can bring great results. I am a women who is 33, no kids, never married and I can say that I would not take on a man with 4 kids because at the end of the day how on earth could we enjoy a relationship with such different priorities, however, if I had 3 boys of my own yes that is different. There is nothing bad or wrong with a women or man who doesn’t want to date someone with a large amount of kids, you just have to meet the one who is at that stage of the game/ similar life experience and or circumstance and like Evan said most (not all) 34 year old men are not at that stage yet.
San says
Hello g I agreeTeena says
That’s not true I would never date or marry a man with multiple small children….as I don’t want to do the lunches, soccer, and other time consumption activities that may be required not to mention he has alimony and child support payments, along with college funding..but the fact that your getting hounded for sex is just a sign of the times…us single women with no kids get the same crap…keep your head up…
Don says
Sophie, I am a Single Father with an 8yr old daughter. She and I are together at least 3 days each week, sometimes more. Women without children don’t want to get involved with a Man with children anymore than Men not wanting to get involved with Single Mother.
I love my little girl more than anything or anyone else. I have never let her see the couple of women that I briefly dated. I hear people say those without children are selfish and don’t understand. Guess what, your right. Our life style is not their problem. Even other single parents have a difficult time dating other single parents. Just life. I haven’t dated in over 2 years. I get together with friends and other parents with children to keep everyone engaged and ensure my daughter has positive impressions at an early age.
Made our own beds, now we parent up and own it!
Something or other says
Dating a woman with children IS settling…. Men, of which I am, are similar to lions. We typically do not like other people’s kids. It is what it is. We do not develop emotional attachments to children as easily, and there’s nothing that can change that instinct. We do not want to give our, usually, hard earned resources to another man’s child.
this is a case of many but not all… So you single women are going to be fighting for a very limited type of dude. The kind you are attracted to, can respect, and who are, at least on the surface, fighting the instinctual urge to populate his and only his DNA…. Ala the male lion killing Cubs and reimpregnatimg the females….
Life is a brutal, dirty game. Without our mostly* peaceful (drones and bombs) society, ya’ll single mothers would probably lose a couple children to starvation and predators…. Ever seen a mother chimp watch as her child is torn from her arms and beaten against the ground by a male chimp? Now that’s some f’d stuff. It’s probably emotionally debilitating that mother chimp for life, meanwhile she’s nursing the child of her savage rapist…..
besides, us men are just flawed people as well. We have our own expectations and needs. We are not appliances, and neither are you. We’re just people trying not to be miserable in a difficult world. Not everyone gets someone. Some people get multiple someone’s. Other people are born without skin, or genatalia…. Perspective.
sorry bout all that nasty imagery.. But I’m assuming we’re all adults and that the realities of life are on the table. And I can’t stress enough how much I condemn the slaying of children whether it be human or animal.
Chioma Okonkwo says
It’s sad you feel this way. You could be limiting yourself
justin says
There’s no way a successful decent guy that’s attractive will get tangled up with a woman that has any kids much less 4 under 9. I love the tone women make like we are wrong to not want them and “see their value” we see your value on the way home from the bar after a game sneaking in banging you and leaving. That’s the only value you have to any man that is attractive and has ambition
Melissa says
I think Evan is spot on. And to Sophie’s comment, as a single woman with no kids, I wouldn’t take on a man with four kids, so I totally get the letter writer’s dilemma. That said, I would rather date a man with a child; if he’s a good father, it shows that he knows how to take care of and consider someone other than himself. But 4…it is a lot for me as a childless woman to wrap my head around.
There’s no question about it…Evan is giving a practical tip to help Cristina achieve what she’s looking for. By no means does she have to follow his advice. And by no means does she HAVE to limit herself to what Evan suggests. But what does she have to lose if she begins to include the type of guys that Evan suggests into her searches?
Jeremy says
Cristina, I will start by wishing you the very best of luck in your search. You sound like an intelligent person with a lot going for her, and I hope you find what you are looking for.
My perspective on your situation is that, as Evan wrote, you will have a tough time finding what you want with someone your own age (early to mid 30’s), and that your experiences are not unexpected (unfortunately).
Most men in their early to mid 30’s (and even late 30’s) are just beginning to think about settling down, and about “one day” having children. Part of the fun of that fantasy is finding the right woman to settle down with, getting to know her, building a relationship and having experiences together (with just the 2 of you), and then eventually reaching the point where the decision is made to start a family. In your particular case, a man who has a relationship with you is immediately getting the whole package all at once. Very few, if any, childless men in their 30’s want that, even with a woman who is totally amazing in and of herself. There is just too much responsibility involved, right from the outset (and, again, most men mature into child-rearing responsibility over time and do not want it thrust upon themselves quickly).
I know that you wrote that you don’t want a father for your kids, since they already have one. But realistically, that’s what any man who has a relationship/marriage with you will be – a father figure for your kids – whether or not they already have a father, and whether or not you provide the lion’s share of the income. It’s kind of obvious, realistically speaking, and that’s how any man is going to see it.
Having said that, I totally agree with Evan. Are there men who would see you as you wish to be seen, and value you for the person you are? YES. Will these men likely be in their 30’s and childless? NO. Your lack of success in finding a quality man is likely related to the type of man you are searching for.
Best of luck in whichever path you choose.
sayan sam says
Yes I agree
Isabel says
I know of SO many young women who totally change after child birth. I don’t just mean weight gain. Sometimes their true selfish nasty personalities instead of just the facade that is easy to project when you don’t have a care in the world.
Some women who seem so sweet & nurturing actually can be terrible mothers in practice! This disturbing reality hit my brother who thought his 20something girlfriend was going to stay home with baby & noe she’s gone with her friends a lot while he’s alone with ther baby at home.
The point is when you see a single mom who you do respect as a mother, who has her life together, you are getting the real deal. Not a fantasy of what she might be as the “Mother Ideal”
You can see she is healthy & fertile. She didn’t gain 200 lbs and turn into a post partum psychotic nightmare who can’t clean house or cook.
I think young single girls in the West today are not raised to be good mothers & wives. No matter how nurturing & sordid they might seem, having a baby changes a woman and sometimes not for the best. Men are taking a big risk wanting a family with a woman who hasn’t shown she is well suited to it.
When you’re single you have all the time in the world to dorms on your appearance & attracting a man with your charms. With single moms you get a preview into what domestic life wound be like. How is her home? How are her kids? Etc. You can’t fake it so easily
anon says
The moms I know that changed for the worse were very young (early – mid 20′), got pregnant by a man that there were not dating for very long, and the man was just using her for a pump and dump and had no intention of a committed relationship or marriage. So yes – being a young mom, scared of the future, raising a child alone because 99% of the time baby daddy runs out on them, sleep deprived, hormonal, trying to hold down a job? Of course her personality’s going to change. The women who hook up with these men knowing they abandoned their kids? They are no better. Instead of complaining about these women turning into b*tches, maybe you could try helping them. Cook a meal once in a while or offer to babysit so she can get some time to herself. If you can show one of these women that you want to help and truly care about the future of her and her kids you would see a big change for the better in their personality. I work with women like this, and I used to have the same (false) impression that you did until I went out of my way to help them out. Maybe you should start asking questions about the men that abandon their kids (and not believe the BS that they tell you – oh, baby mom was a b*tch so I left and she doesn’t let me see the kids. 99.9% that’s an outright lie).
Tom10 says
@ Sophie #2
“I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest Christina has to change her type just to clinch someone.”
It might be unfair, but since when was dating fair? This is something that all of us have to deal with when dating.
“That is like urging someone to settle which no-one should do.“
Hmmm…
“Don’t sacrifice who you are because the guys you’be dated so far don’t have the maturity to handle your situation.”
Nobody is suggesting that Christina should sacrifice who she is, but if she is not getting the results she wants, wouldn’t it be wise to consider making changes to her approach and her target dating pool?
“A woman would take on a guy with 4 kids and hopefully the world will one day change so that the same is true vice versa.”
Well some women might take on a guy with 4 kids, but many wouldn’t. However, hoping for the world to change one day is a futile strategy.
@ Evan
“Instead of dating cute 34-year-old single guys who don’t have kids, how about you date cute 43-year-old guys who are in the exact same spot in life, who understand your predicament, who have obligations of their own, and who will be delighted to meet a woman who gets THEM.”.
I agree with this 100%. Rightly or wrongly, most young cute single guys will consider single mothers for sex only unfortunately. Why would they take on such huge responsibility if they could find someone else without that responsibility?
Frimmel says
Rightly or wrongly, most young cute single guys will consider single mothers for sex only unfortunately. Why would they take on such huge responsibility if they could find someone else without that responsibility?
And those guys would also seek women much more likely to bear them their own biological children. 1 or 2 of another man’s kids is pushing it already. If she’s “done” bearing children then she’s asking a man without children to give up the possibility of his own kids while taking on a lot of responsibility for another man’s kids. And if she’s on good terms with the ex it strongly suggests a “frivorce” making for way to many risks and downsides.
starthrower68 says
I stand with Evan on this one. I’ve dated guys who don’t have kids but I’m not sure they relate to where I’m at in life. Remember so that men come and go. But you will always have your kids in your life.
Lennox says
That’s the best advice. Single Moms and Dads need to look at the big picture here. They might need love but at the end of the day the kids should be their number priority and joy. Some experts actually believe its best not to even date when you have young children. They say it’s better for the child’s well being and safety. Especially with all these predators out there that prey on single mom’s kids. It’s called sacrifice people!
My Mom and Dad divorced when I was 10. Guess what? My Mother never brought any “new” men around my brother and I. To this day I love and respect her for that. It’s gross to think about it, but she might have had some casual relationships that she kept secrect and that was her bunsiness. Let me end this on a bright note. My Mom found the love of her life in her early forties when my brother and I were all grown up. They are together and happy to this day (22 years now). Be patient and always put your children first they will love you for that when they are adults.
shellyb says
I think Evan is right in suggesting you consider other types of men to date. I would also suggest just putting any serious dating aside for awhile, like a few years at least. My two kids were 7 and 9 when I got divorced. I put all thoughts of dating and men aside for almost 7 years. I focused on just my own family, raising the boys, building my career, and becoming completely content with being alone. It was the best thing I did for me and my kids. Once I did start dating, I found the selection of men to be so much better. And my family was more ready to bring someone new in, and so was Ii. Good luck to you, if doing is frustrating to you, really consider just pouring out on hold… It should be a sign that you’re not quite as ready as you should be, and maybe your family isn’t either. Dating should be a fun adventure!
And by the way, even though I’m 40, I get hit on and asked out by young 20 something’s regularly…. Unless you’re just looking for seeds, they’re not worth it!!
Tosha says
I am a 40 year old woman with 4 teenage boys. I was married for almost 18 years and we divorced. I started dating a guy in his 50’s with no kids, never been married, didn’t want to ever be married and was totally selfish. Well, I wanted to be married again. We dated for 2 years, but then he ended it. I think it was because I had too many obligations. Like you, I could take care of myself and my kids, plus their father was apart of their lives.
I then met Mr. Right on a blind date. He was 9 years older than I was. He lived 1500 miles away from me and we engaged in a long distance relationship for 1 year. We are now happily married. I have 4 kids and he has 2. Do not give up; the right man is out there. He oved to my hometown and we are great and with my 4 kids. Someone is out there. Not every man just want sex.
Chantal says
I have twins who are finally in college. I got divorced at 37, and did do the dating thing – and have never gotten re-married.
I’m sorry to say this but why do people jump first and then look afterwards? 4 kids in 10 years and then divorced? I stopped at my first, and wanted to give it a break – but you just kept them coming. You can’t have a “do-over” and think things are gonna be great – you brought your 4 kids into the world and they come first, I assume.
You cannot expect men your age to want to commit to anything more than what you’ve got. Evan is right – look for someone in their mid to late 40’s in decent shape – also divorced with kids — there are a lot of them out there. The ones who want (more) kids at 50 are Ah’s and steer clear of them.
Victoria says
I imagine she believed that her marriage would last, or else she wouldn’t have had children with that particular man. Same as you, right? Or did you know in advance that you and the father of your two kids would someday divorce, and you decided to go ahead and make babies anyway?
My point is this: who are you to judge the choices she made? Are you OK with being similarly judged by other women who chose partners, had children with them, and are still married?
Evan’s advice is right on. You’ll notice he didn’t feel the need to attack her, or speak derisively of her choice to have four children. Perhaps take a page from his book?
RustyLH says
Victoria, I think she was including herself in the jump before looking crowd. She has a point to an extent. Most men will tell you that in their 20s, most women bypassed very good men to date and marry bad boys. It seems that at this age, women care more about excitement than they do stability.
I agree however that the tone does not have to be harsh. I agree that this women is going to have it rough and following your example may be her best bet, because I am not sure she is going to be willing to accept that she can’t have it all. Most women seem to bristly at that notion…the notion of having to settle, and so long as she sees it as settling, it won’t be very appealing to her. She will need a paradigm shift…a change from finding the “hot” guys sexy, to finding the stable, unselfish guys as sexy, even of they don’t have the pretty faces and hot bodies.
Berto says
that is not attacking attacking is whats happening to men around this country paying for kids who are not there own biological kids being forced by the justice system in the court rooms to pay for other mens kids statistics show 90 percent of alimony goes to women and thats counting women who make other man pay for their children all it takes is for this single mothers to prove he took cared of the kids took them to school bought them things and bam she has you paying for another mens kids Men! please beware of single mothers its not worth the risk its jsut isnt there is alot of personal experiences of men being fucked by the court systems when all they wanted was some sex and fun dont date single mothers i cant wait till some single mom here tells me not all single mons are like that haha please the moms who dont need help and have a career and money are in the few haha
Stephanie says
Exactly. Im in this boat. 14 year marriage, 4 beautiful kids. Poured my whole adult life into this man and our kids. Everything seemed picture perfect, then i found out he had had a pattern of cheating the whole time that I NEVER knew about, and wants out. Leaving me screwed
Elsa says
That was a bit harsh. I don’t think anyone wakes up wanting to be a single parent of 4 kids.
Kate says
As a single parent, I often hear people who are happily married with children say you should be content with being a parent now and put your own human needs for intimate love and support on hold for the next 10 years until you are “child free”. Your focus should be on your children, not dating or finding love. That’s selfish. But I then have to ask: why so you need a partner?
Berto says
its called a condom and birth control! she should of used it most people do! so later on we are not like you blaming it on the circumstances be a grown up and own up to your mistakes dont bring some bullshit saying that she loves her kids now thats besides the point we are not talking about her feeling towards her kids now that she has them we are talking about men and women who know its smart to use all three forms of contraceptives so then they can decide when they are ready to have kids so no it doesnt matter if she loves them now and she wouldnt have an abortion she already formed an emotional bond it could all been avoided some women and men are just baby makers and then complain why theres so many obstacles in their life now haha they asked for it
SparklingEmerald says
I have to totally agree with EMK.
My first husband had one child, and I happily filled the role of step mother, and over 30 years later, he (my step son) and I stay loosely in touch. But that was ONE child, my first hubby had him about 50% of the time, and he was self employed, only worked about 20 hours a week (and made great money at it) so it wasn’t really much of a burden, in fact, it was a delight. I adore my step son ! But I think that is rather an exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself.
However, there is no way I would have ever taken on four ! Especially with the the typical Dad having a typical full time, or overtime job. Not that I’m unsympathetic, but expecting a man to try and squeeze himself into 5th place or lower in your life . . . . Unrealistic expectation.
As much as I HATE that I was dumped back into the single life in my mid-fifties, I am glad I wasn’t single when one son was still in my care. As a mother I would HAVE to put him first, and honestly, I don’t know how I would have tried to fit in dating with one young child, let alone 4. If my marriage ended when he was still young, I would have just concentrated on being the best mom I could be and wouldn’t have bothered with dating.
Anthea says
I too have experienced the after effects of “trying” to be in a relationship with a man (who recently turned 50) who had 3 teenage kids. When I met him, only the middle daughter lived with him, now his very troubled 15 year old lad lives FT with him as his ex wife booted out her own son onto the streets….
OMG…. the drama! The issues we faced (I faced) trying to deal with living with an instant and adolescent family under one roof. We were together nearly 4 yaers on and off and even got engaged..BUT his obligations to his children came first and with minimal support from my then partner regarding helping me to manage living with a teenager, eventually became our undoing.
So the upside for me? Is that I never want to date a man with children! Excessive I know but Ive been put through the wringer and for all my effort, love and support, it meant nothing when your partner continues to puts his kids “wants” before the “needs” of our relationship. He just didnt “get it”…he just saw me as being jealous of what he did for his kids….I just saw him as trying to buy their love and the money he was throwing at his kids, I was left to have to manage and pay for us to all live together in my house from my wage (he brought no major assets with him other than a couple of cars)…All I ever wanted from him was for both of us to be on the same page….he was too busy defending his spoilt kids to consider me as his equal partner in life.
His loss.
BTW….Im back to dating now BUT Ive got my witts about me now regarding men with kids….I wont not go out with them, but will be really scrutinizing their relationship as Im sure not all fathers are over indulgent, emotionally guilty parents. We will see!! lol
There is one guy (online dating) that tells me he works away for 2 weeks and comes home for 2 weeks and has his 3 boys FT during that time….but then tells me he can pop out now and then for a date if he wants to when he is home…..WTF! The message he is telling me is 1) He is too busy for a relationship. 2) I only want to see you on my terms 3) I only want a booty call. NEXT!! lol
Paula says
Don’t want to sound mean but here’s actual proof that getting married under 25 doesn’t last (as Evan is always pointing the stats for getting married young). Cristina was married at 20, which is ridiculously early. I think she is better off dating men who are in their 40s and are divorced and already have children, like 1 or 2. I think the odds of her finding a man closer to her age that has never been married or has no children and may want them will be more difficult. I just don’t think it will work out. She needs to ‘stick with her own kind’ (i.e. divorced men). I think she shouldn’t give up either but if you want a relationship, it does require some time and energy.
Sophie says
My issue is with the ‘bucket’ women with children are put into. Tom 10 refers to “most young cute single guys will consider single mothers for sex only unfortunately“. Christina herself uses the term “MILF”. While there is this labelling, men will continue to see females who happen to have a past as damaged goods. Christina may be mother but she is also an individual and an individual subject to the laws of attraction like anyone else. If she happens to prefer guys younger than her, no amount of telling her to look for someone older is going to change what she really wants and likes. I am totally realistic. Single fathers don’t face the same pressures. That doesn’t mean I have to like it or that I or Christina should have to suppress who we attracted to because maybe, just maybe there are some guys out there that break the mould. As the saying goes: “patience is a virtue; to have it is a must”.
Treifalicious says
Exactly! What if she just is not attracted to men 10-15 years older than her? Why do people expect women to date and even marry men they aren’t attracted to just to get themselves married?
Nobody ever tells men having a hard time finding a serious girlfriend to date older women.
45 single man says
no, they are told to get a better job, to be more exciting and sucessful, etc. you are not entitled to get the man or woman that you want, otherwise, all men, even 50 and 60 years old would date 20 and 25 year old women, and all women would have the bad boy millionaire type. we can’t all have what we want, look at yourself objectively in the mirror and decide if you have to compromise, i did, and i have to compromise, that is life.
Hazz says
Why do people expect men to date or even marry women they aren’t attracted to (like dating a woman who already has children of her own)? I am a single man and want children of my own. If I am going to spend decades of my life caring for children why would that be children of some other mans, when there are plenty of single non-mothers who I can respect, shower with love and have my own children with?
jo says
RustyLH says
Sophie, you are 100% right. But, at the same time, you should do things intelligently, or at least no the risks of your actions and choices. Sadly, most of us do not put any thought into the risks and consequences of our actions, and then when things turn out badly for us, we act like victims.
others are correct to point out obvious tends. Ask yourself, who is likely to have a problem with your children? A younger guy with no kids? Or a guy with kids, and I will say younger, same age or older?
As for patience, you have to take a close look at the what Evan has posted about making your decisions about these things..children, marriage…earlier in life. Many women start reporting increasing difficulty getting dates once they pass 30, and feel invisible by 50. In short, in this case, patience is not a virtue. being diligent about finding a guy who is right for you and your children is a virtue…not acting immature as if the world is your oyster. you have kids, and are getting older. You are going to wake up one day and find that the best guys are taken, or no longer interested in you. The world will no longer be your oyster. Having no plan is planning to fail.
You are the one in charge of what you do. nobody can change that. You decide who you will date and spend time with. You decide when YOU wish to pursue something serious with, and whom YOU will pursue it with.
What you don’t control are the men. They decide who they will use for sex, and who they will actually fall in love with. They choose who they will actually marry, so long as the other person also wants it. They have their own agenda which is not yours. Time is on their side, not yours.
Julia says
Many women start reporting increasing difficulty getting dates once they pass 30, and feel invisible by 50.
When I was in my twenties, I had maybe 3 dates a year. When I was 30 and newly single, I could go out with 3 men A WEEK. Women over 30 are not worthless, or unattractive or whatever BS MRA types want to put out. I actually agree with Evan though. As a childless woman, I tried dating single dads, the kind who shared 50% custody. I always came second, I always became resentful and many of them felt they were finished having children. I think there are plenty of single dads in their 30s (I know, I dated them) but I would also push her towards dating a bit older. Not 50 year old men but men in their early-mid 40s.
RustyLH says
Give the MRA crap a rest. That info you quoted is not my info, that was info I got here. I do not think 30 something women are worthless, nor do I think 40 or 50 something women are worthless. That’s victim speak and it’s regurgitated by men wanting to lash out at women. In another post, I noted that for me, being 50, I do not agree with the notion that a woman’s highest value is at 20, and less at 30, and even less at 40. For me, it is actually just the opposite. In fact, at 20 they have no value to me because they simply aren’t relationship material.
Weirdly, I am getting most of the attention from 20 and 30 somethings. My preference is an early 40’s Brazilian who owns her own home near Sao Paulo, with a very nice garden. I find her to be extremely attractive. Problem is, she prefers to stay there, and since I am in school for the next couple of years, that isn’t going to work short term.
The 27 year old Brazilian ex-model is the same religion as me. As a Brazilian Adventist, she has very very strong beliefs about marriage. So while I am not putting much stock in it, if it did happen, that strong belief would allow me to not worry that she saw it as a short term solution.
Same for a 37 yo Filipino nurse from Vancouver Canada. Very strong beliefs regarding marriage.
Yet my preference is the 41 year old Brazilian who is a devout Protestant Christian, but not a devout Protestant Christian Adventist. She is, in my opinion, just as attractive as the other two.
And now, a very cute, single blond that lives on my floor was flirting with me in a major way last night. We’ve chatted in the lobby and elevators numerous times. She has become increasingly open and flirty. I have not asked her age and have not nailed it though when she has sunglasses on, I assumed late 20’s early 30’s. Without, she looks younger.
Last night, as I was approaching the building, I rounded the corner a block away from it, and immediately caught site of her with her dog. She (the dog) was obviously done, but the girl waited for me to walk up to her and we exchanged greetings. He dog is very shy and timid with everyone. I made note that I would need to win her love with treats, and quickly detailed doing so with a friends two dogs that did not like anyone. I told her how he was amused on one hand but kept calling them traitors as they followed me around and loved on me.
She smiled and told me to bring treats to her apartment and her dog would definitely be a traitor. OK…this isn’t rocket science. She’s not looking for free treats for her dog. She invited me to her apartment. I’ll be buying dog treats the next time I go to the store.
Here’s the thing. Is it flattering to find a young twenty something attracted to me? Absolutely, and I would expect anyone to feel the same. But, I am also realistic. I seriously doubt she would want marriage, or even a LTR. At most, I would expect her to want a FWB relationship until she finds a more suitable LTR.
I’m realistic enough to realize that most 20 somethings don’t want to marry man past mid 30s, and some don’t even want a man more than a few years older than they are. So I don’t go looking for 20 somethings. I understand why the 27 and 37 year old Adventists are interested. Both come from cultures where women regularly marry, by choice, men 10 to 20 years older. Also, being Adventists, it is like dating in a small town. Thus the interest.
The one that lives on my floor likely sees it as nothing more than a chance for companionship and sexual adventure with an older man to break up this dry spell.
As for the OP, her problem by her description seems to be her kids, not her age or her looks. I’ll address that in a post below.
However, the reality is this.
sandra says
Time is on no one`s side, period. Men or women. The only older men that do really well dating have lots of money and well-preserved looks. The rest face the same dilemma as older women. If the average woman preferred much older men, they would not need coaxing by EMK or anyone else to consider older men. Men do not age better. It is just many women will overlook appearance in favor of other qualities. And if the man is much older, it is looks and financial security. And since most women can at least feed and house themselves, they expect physical attraction. Which is why men have to start taking a reality check early on . I have seen this first hand.
As for the OP, I think her children come first. A relationship may be a nice fantasy, but probably not the best idea..
marymary says
Sandra
one of the 20somethings at work was complaining that some “old pervs” were hitting on her. I asked how old. She said, “40s”.
I’m in my forties, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
RustyLH says
I find a lot of truth in this post but I will touch on one thing that I do not agree with, not completely.
You, like all women seem to wear it as a badge of honor that you care about more things. It’s not badge of honor. You are simply more picky, more critical, etc.. of other things that men are not critical of. if we were to believe women, the only women getting married would be super models and movie stars, like Jessica Alba. While we put an emphasis on looks, we don’t actually put any more emphasis on them than women do. The OKcupid results showed that women are actually more critical of looks, but yes, since they are also critical of other things, they will give guys a chance that they find less attractive than their preference. This is slowly changing as women become more and more financially independent. It was the centuries of needing to rely on men for safety and security that caused these other preferences. That need is disappearing.
As polyamory becomes more acceptable, I see things changing in a very negative way. The higher a man’s attractiveness, the more women he will have. I really don’t think that is going to be an enjoyable society for anyone to live in…not really. I know I would not want to live in it. I think it is going to be a very ugly very selfish society.
RustyLH says
@ Sandra
Well, it is what it is. There certainly are young women who despise older people. If you were to be able to be a fly in the wall, you would likely learn that she doesn’t much like older women either, and would think it is equally creepy for a younger man to date an older woman. She is, however, likely to become a Cougar in her older years, if her attitude remains this way. She will then get her comeuppance. While I am sure she will get some young men giving her what she wants, she will also get exactly what she is giving out. She will ask a young man to dance, or try to flirt with him, and he will make it plain to her that he thinks she is a creepy Cougar.
She might even go through her best years trying to attract a younger man only to strike out in this endeavor, only t find herself in a position, when she is 40 plus, where the only men serious about dating her are ten years older. If she were open minded, this won’t bother her, but she doesn’t seem open minded at all.
However, you could question her about the guy. Maybe it wasn’t as much his age as he was just an unattractive, greasy character.
Tim says
Actually older women do a lot better in the dating world vs older men.
Lau_ra says
@marymary
Well don’t get offended, 40somethings, yet to 20somethings you are more of the old people – thats a whole generation apart and parents of 20somethings are most likely just several years older than you are. Some in here say that 20somethings aren’t open enough and rational about their prospects enough – yet why need they be? In that age your choices are multiple, why consider someone twice older? So no need to be so perplexed about what’s been said by that 20something colleague – 40s is not actually old, yet in most cases too old *for someone in their 20s*.
Raj says
I like good and healthy sex.
Kate says
That’s like saying if you are married with children you should give up on intimacy, love, support and romance and sleep in different rooms because your focus should be on your children not your selfish, personal needs. O
Tim says
Most men in the prime of their youth feel invisible to women. And here you are whining that women over 50 feel invisible.
Yet Another Guy says
@Tim
Sadly, that is the truth. Most men are invisible to women until their late twenties, early thirties.
Tom says
Rusty, well said. 40+ year old male, have been with a single mother for 3 years with one small child. tried to make it work, but being fourth to a child, her family and friends is hair pulling.
Tim says
“Single fathers don’t face the same pressures”
Yeah, single fathers who look better than 90% of men their age and have everything going in life.
The average looking 35 yr old single mom does way better in the dating world than the average looking 35 yr old single dad.
sandra says
RustyLH,
I am not sure why you really have it in for a woman the OP`s age who is not interested in significantly older men. You seem to be absolutely certain ( from what I can tell ( that if a young woman is not interested in much older men ( let`s say 15+ yrs or so) that she is doomed to couharhood. I just don`t understand that conclusion. While age disparate couples do marry, similar aged couples are far more common, and generally the norm. This insistence you have that women accept MUCH older men or else, is just bizarre. And I am sorry, but just because a woman does not find MUCH older man attractive, has no correlation that she is repulsed by older women. None. It is just a scare tactic on women.
BTW, I do think the OP should be more open-minded if she is serious about finding someone for the long-term. It is her life, of course, but I believe the children come first.
RustyLH says
Sandra,
What are you talking about? I don’t think she “MUST” date a much older man. Maybe you should clean your glasses and reread my posts? I said that was one option. What I said in a nutshell is that this women, if we believe her self description, was at one time, a woman who could have had her pick in men. the new reality for her is that this is no longer the case. She has four kids. That makes her less than appealing for the vast majority of men, even men she would have never considered an option. It has nothing to do with fairness; there is nothing fair about the dating world. As I said, she has options, but only she can determine if those options are something she is willing to accept.
I also do not hold the opinion that women MUST accept much older men. Nor do I hold the opinion that women MUST refuse to date younger men. The opinion I do hold is that because men DO prefer younger women, and because men are more than willing to enter into sexual relationships with women they would never dream of marrying, that a woman who refuses to date older men, and only date younger men, is playing against the odds. In short, if 30 yo woman has 3 short term relationships lasting about 3 years each, with younger men more than willing, she could see her 30’s pass her by with no LTR. If in her 40’s she continues this, she should not be surprised if she is 50 with no LTR.
I simply agree with Evan that while young, both men and women should get more serious about their LTR priorities. Too many people act as if they have forever to find the right person. I think we also agree that it is up to each individual, what they do, but it helps if you are realistic in your choices. So it is the same for a man. Going to hold out for a Playboy Playmate? Don’t be surprised when you are a 60 year-old never-married man.
sandra says
Yes, if a woman only dates younger men, then her prime years will be wasted, no doubt. I was assuming the OP was interested in men her own age group. But when someone insists women should consider older men, I assume they mean MUCH older, since a few years older is the norm. Sorry, I wish there was more specific terminology for “older within a normal range” and ” much older.”
whitney says
Wow that’s inspirational but highly unrealistic! Women absolutely need to realize that having another mans child makes them far less attractive to attractive men their age with options! This is just reality! Think about it. Why would some dude want to raise another man’s child- isn’t that like voluntary cuckholdry? You can’t shame men for not signing up for that. Women should choose wisely who will father their children because after having children with another man it is significantly harder to find another man to date/mate with? Though not impossible, she should follow Evans advice to give her the best chances rather than hope that men will suddenly change and find single moms super desirable for a relationship
Brenda says
I wish I could talk to all single parents! I’ve lived through your situation and my children are now in their 20’s. My best advice would be to stop dating and focus on giving your undivided attention to your children. This time is so precious. Invest in yourself and your kids. Pursue hobbies you enjoy. Turn the phones and computers off and read a big thick book together, exercise, bake a pie, and start saving money if at all possible. Your kids are going to be grown and gone in a few very short years, and you may have to support yourself for the rest of your life.
There will ALWAYS be single, divorced, widowed people out there – always. If you spend these years preoccupied with your love life, you’ll regret it. I know so many men and women who would rather cut their legs off, than be on their own for any period of time. The ones who desperately feel compelled to be in another relationship, will typically experience a repeat of the same unhealthy situation they had the first, second, third time.
Do yourself and your kids a favor – focus on showing them how you are a WHOLE person and a WHOLE, in tact family just the way you are. You are not “broken” or “defective.” You and your kids will be SO much happier in the long run.
Kids are very aware which parent put them first, and which parent made their sex life the top priority. If both parents love and put the kids first, they will grow up healthier than most of their friends from a two-parent “perfect” home. Not saying this is you, but forcing kids to share their parent with the current lover is not fair to them. When the relationship ends, they’re hurt, you’re hurt, and you will NEVER get back that time you lost. You can be 100% mommy now, and 100% sexy lady after your kids are grown – Believe me, it’s worth the wait. Plus you’ll be emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, ready to focus on your adult relationships.
Someone mentioned the Brady Bunch. In reality, the blended family thing is the worst for kids, especially at middle school age. The thing about the Brady Bunch is Mike and Carol evidently never had to deal with six custody schedules because their exes were mysteriously missing, and Alice did all the cooking and cleaning. It’s not reality.
Who knows, if you put the stress of dating on the back burner, you could meet Mr. Wonderful at the ballgame this weekend! If he’s truly a gentleman – he will care more about your relationship with your kids than how often you’re available for a late night booty call. Good guys don’t make booty calls. Mature men call you when the sun is shining and ask to spend quality time with you, because they truly want to get to know you. The guy who thinks this is too much effort, is the wrong guy. The kids shouldn’t be subjected to anyone you aren’t planning to marry – why should their little hearts be dragged through the mud? Good guys want to help you, not use you.
I would also advise staying off dating sites – they’re shallow and toxic. How sad to rob ourselves of one of the few wonderful pleasures in life – like love at first sight – seeing a knowing twinkle in the eyes, and the sense that you’ve known each other forever. You don’t get that from thousands of meaningless profile pics. When you feel a soul spark with someone you meet in person, you aren’t thinking oh, sorry, you’re a year out of my age limit – and it looks like your body type is “average” – I’m going to have to pass. Perhaps God is supposed to orchestrate the meeting at the right place and time, when He knows both people are ready for a healthy love.
starthrower68 says
Brenda, here here! You said it very well!
RustyLH says
I agree with everything you said. Especially that she actually can date, but raise the bar for the guys. Be right up front that there will be no sex now or in the near future. Seriously…she should say that. A guy asks her out..she should be open and friendly. Don’t come across as being rude and hard nosed. Just smile pleasantly and say, “Honestly, I would enjoy going to dinner and a movie, but in all fairness, I want to let you know that I don’t sleep around. So long as you don’t assume that dates mean sex, I would love to go out with you.” As *shock* a good man, I would be very pleasantly surprised if a woman said that to me. What he does or does know about her past relationships is of no consequence. He must deal with who she is now, not who she was. If a few dates later, he ties to negotiate it into a sexual relationship, she should simply be firm but pleasant. If he says, “Don’t you like sex?” She should say, “I absolutely love sex…I just don’t like it in uncommitted relationships. No real feeling to it. Just self gratification. Sex is so much better when it involves love. Is sex all you are really after?” He would likely say no, or in some way try to state that it is just part of a relationship. This is where she again just hits him with brutal honesty but does so in a pleasant and disarming way. She does not have to be strong here. She can be vulnerable. It actually works better that way. She simply lets him know that the problem is that guys are all to willing to give the illusion that a relationship is building…take the sex, and then when it starts to actually resemble a real relationship, they disappear. She can simply say that this is very painful for her and she doesn’t want it anymore. So she will no longer have sex with a man that is not worth that gift. Only a man that sees her as worthy of being “his” will get that gift in the future. She can basically say that the pain of being used outweighs the good feelings that sex brings. Again, soft, truthful vulnerability is in my opinion the best way to discuss this. Why? It forces him to see her as a real person with real emotions, and real vulnerabilities. In my opinion, only the worst kind of man could still push for sex after she has this talk in this manner. A true gentleman will seek to be her knight in shining armor, if he cares that much about her, or at a minimum, will not feel good about using her and so he won’t. He will likely say something to the effect that she is a sweet person but she has too many kids for him. So the inevitable happens before she invests more of herself by having sex with him.
I am convinced that these days women simply don’t understand how her vulnerability…truthful vulnerability, not manipulative vulnerability, actually brings out the best in men.
Kiki says
Rusty,
What you say sounds very meaningful and it is pretty much along the lines of what Evan preaches on this blog – kindly let the man know that you are not interested in random sex, and it will weed out the players.
The problem with the letter writes is, in my opinion, not that she runs into players, but that there are objective reasons why men in her desired age group would not want to spend much effort on growing this relationship. Whichever way she phrases her attitude about nsi sex, there is no way to negotiate with a man to overlook the responsibilities she would have as a single mother of four kids.
amanda says
The problem with this approach is that it will also weed out the hot guys that she really wants. She might have to settle for someone average-alright in looks.
JoeK says
Yes, she will have to settle for the men who want HER with her current situation. End of the world – she’ll have to settle for someone who’s not a model! End of the world!
Why is mentioning the word “settling” so anathematic to women here? Smart people “settle” all the time, for all sorts of things. You don’t get everything you want, ever, why would you expect dating to be any different? Especially if you’re like most of us who don’t have a clue until our thirties or later.
Thankfully Evan is splashing the cold water on our face to wake us up.
RustyLH says
Amanda,
Is the guy being “hot” all important? Women claim that all of these other things are important, and yet as I have always said, for many women, not all, but for many women, it isn’t that looks aren’t just as important as they are for men, but that they simply have even more requirements. For instance, if the woman is a 9 and she would never consider going below an 8, it doesn’t matter if he has all these other great qualities. She’s not going to settle for a 6 or 7. She wants the 8, 9 or 10, who also has all these other great qualities.
Any “hot guy” who settles for her is giving up far more than she would be giving up if she settles for a not quite so hot guy. Even the not so hot guy would be giving up a lot.
siobhan says
Thankyou Brenda for your comment. Though i have felt a sense of deep grief (im not quite sure why as even though i have been attempting the dating thing i am quite happy and content with my life, there’s at things i need to change a bit but i dont feel a huge yearning for a relationship all the time) my decision, reading your comment was exactly what i needed to hear and iexactly what i need to do. I am blessed with 3 amazing daughters and from now on my focus is to be the best mother i can be. Time is so short and precious. I wish you were my mother lol
France says
this resonated so much with me.’ I had to screen shot
jgv says
God bless you Brenda, I thought I was the only one that thought this way, especially with me being a guy. All great points and I agree with every one of them. Most men, including my friends, can’t stand being alone after a divorce or separation. Although I do know of some great second marriages that are thriving, such as my associate pastor and a few elders in my church, I know that this is the exception. The divorce rate for second marriages is almost 70 percent when kids are involved, and when a parent remarries when kids are still home, especially in that 10-16 yr old age bracket, the kids have a 90 percent chance of going through a divorce themselves because it teaches them that is no biggie if a marriage fails, you can always pick up another spouse. I will try and wait as well; it has been three years so far and not pursuing other woman. There is no way I would even have the time to put towards a relationship, and I can’t imagine what it would do to the kids if there was another failed marriage after they got attached to someone again. For me personally, the hardest thing is going without sex for that long, not just the physical part (I exercise and my sex drive is through the roof), but the intimate side of sex as well. I still have one that is 6 and i’m in my mid forties, so I have a ways to go, I just keep praying that God will sort everything out for me, seems like an impossible task sometimes, but life is not always fair. I think the relationship between a husband and a wife comes first on a first marriage before the kids because everyone benefits, but when that marriage breaks up, kids need to come first. That does not mean you can’t have your own life and pursue hobbies and hang out with friends, though.
Kiki says
Cristina,
It seems that you are very restricted in the free time that you are able to give to a partner. The greatest gift we give to each other, as human beings, in dating and relationship, is our time, and our undivided attention. If you want to be at home at night, at the time to put your kids to bed, read fairy tales, and give them sweet good night kisses, you simply can not be available to be spending more and more time with a (potential) boyfriend, and have spontaneous magical nights together.
You probably know that in order to have a full life (balancing family and career etc) you need to be extremely well organized, and have schedules for everything, including for example for dates two evenings per week. But that last thing would be very difficult to arrange with someone in the early stages of a relationship, because people prefer to get to know each other little by little and in a spontaneous rather than in a strictly planned manner.
Evan is right that an older man who already has children and knows first hand about the responsibilities that come with them, can be understanding to your situation, and sympathetic to the need to plan dates in a manner that will kill all spontaneity. However, even older men with children will have little sympathy to your unavailability and to the fact that he and his needs will always come second after your kids.
As a personal note, if I were in your situation, I would be rather having uncommitted sex with men in my age group, rather than looking for a SERIOUS relationship with an older man. I would postpone the serious relationship for when my kids grow up a (older teenage may be?), as there will likely be no shortage of older men at that time either :-). Just my two cents.
Chance says
I think there would be plenty of older fathers that would be sympathetic to her commitment to her children – certainly more so than a childless 34 Y/O.
Karen says
What if they don’t have the great looks and physique that she requires in men?
Its very easy for us women to develop high physical and sexual expectations of men because obtaining sex is so easy for us.. Even mediocre looking women in their late 30’s can easily get hot younger guys in bed. Its a big disappointment when the same kind of guys are no where to be seen when we require a little commitment.
Julia says
nice try troll “karen” you might want to change your gravatar before pretending to be a woman and spamming about all the sex average old women get from young hot studs.
Anon says
Hi Julia, actually even if he had changed his gravatar a fool could tell this is a man masquerading as a woman.
A woman would never admit such an awkward reality in the words he has chosen!
Tim says
Women seem to have an ego problem with admitting that its easier for them to obtain no strings sex and they don’t need to be that attractive either.
tamara says
@Tim: There’s no ego problem, most of us ladies know that it’s easy for most women–incl unattractive ones–to get NSA sex; since there are some very unfussy men around. (Joke: what’s a sl-t? A woman with the morals of a man, hah)
I think Julia is just annoyed that ‘Karen’ is pretending to be a woman, when he’s clearly a guy. Btw, how come some of u can display avatars??
Jenn says
Tim, what’s so great about being able to attract NSA sex when what we want is a great relationship? I want a man who wants the whole package, not just the wrapping.
RustyLH says
Have you ever noticed Jenn, that people, men included, always want what they don’t have but often don’t appreciate what they do have. Take a very sexy mother of 4, and she will likely complain that men only want sex from her. Take a very overweight mother of 4 and she will likely complain that she hasn’t had sex in a very long time, or that she has to go through very long dry spells.
Jenn says
Rusty,
Thanks for that enlightening viewpoint. I’ll now be sure to remember to fall down on my knees and thank God for the next man who propositions me for a one night stand on OkCupid.
Adam says
You are an extremely smart and perceptive woman Karen.
I think that women, are in the end very confused. They have been lied to by society and their friends about the reality of not only men, but also the dating market.
As Evan and others have pointed out over the years, women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment. What so many women fail to understand is just because a woman can get a super hot guy into bed, it doesn’t mean that he is going to commit to her or even considers her girlfriend material. Guys are sexually attracted to a wide variety of women. While women consider the top 20% of men sexually desirable, men consider the top 60% of women sexually desirable. So yes, you women can VERY, VERY, easily get hot guys into bed. This is NO great accomplishment for any woman. But the problem, is that only a guy that is of a similar attraction level to her will COMMIT to her. In other words, a woman who is a 6 in attractiveness can get into bed a guy who is a 9, but he isn’t going to commit to her, whereas a guy who is another 6 WILL commit to her. But because a woman who is a 6 can get a 9 into bed, she thinks she can get a 9 to commit to her which is not the case.
Getting a man into bed for a woman, is about as much effort as it takes for me to introduce myself to a beautiful woman and become her friend. Nearly no effort at all. Just because I am friends with a beautiful woman doesn’t mean she is going to sleep with me. Just because a hot guy is sleeping with a woman, doesn’t mean that he is going to commit to her.
Jen says
I’m a single mother to 1 and dealt with a lot of the same. I completely understand it though and am now happily hooked to a man 8 years my senior with 2 kids if his own.
4 kids?! As much as I understand this dilemma I wouldn’t date something with 4 kids either. There’s just not enough room left for me at that point. I’m not here to satisfy someone else’s needs at the expense of my own, that’s not a relationship.
To Evan’s point, Cristina is ready to give up, she says. He’s provided her with another option. She doesn’t have to take it but if she still wants a relationship then adjusting her pool of potential suitors is probably a wise choice. If an older man who’s on the same page as her is “settling” then yes, giving up may be a good idea.
Evan! Please make these comment boxes more mobile friendly!
Karl R says
Sophie said: (#2)
“I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest Christina has to change her type just to clinch someone.”
Dating isn’t fair. Therefore, it’s a waste of time complaining about it being unfair. Good advice shows people how to make that unfairness work in their favor.
Most people (men and women) prefer to date younger. If you’re willing to date older, you can often get someone who is a much better catch than the younger people who are willing to date you.
Sophie said: (#13)
“If she happens to prefer guys younger than her, no amount of telling her to look for someone older is going to change what she really wants and likes.”
When I was dating, I preferred women around my age. But there are a lot of exceptional women who were significantly older/younger. It was also worth dating them, because it opened up additional opportunities.
Sophie said: (#2)
“That is like urging someone to settle which no-one should do.”
Evan and I urge people to compromise, which is something everyone should do.
Evan wanted a wife who was several years younger than him (and Jewish, and liberal). He ended up marrying someone who was a few years older than him (and Catholic, and conservative). There were trade-offs that accompanied that decision, but he ended up with a great wife because of it.
I wanted a woman around my age. I ended up dating women who ranged from 11 years younger to 16 years older. I married the woman who is 16 years older, and I ended up with a great wife because of it.
Sophie said: (#13)
“I am totally realistic.”
Evan and I are being more realistic. We’re giving the advice that really worked when we followed it.
It’s a waste of time to chase people who aren’t interested in you. It’s far more effective to find a great catch among the people who are interested in you.
Treifalicious asked: (#13.1)
“What if she just is not attracted to men 10-15 years older than her? Why do people expect women to date and even marry men they aren’t attracted to just to get themselves married?“
Take a look at the video clip in the URL below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qETPFyxyfM
That’s a video of my wife and I dancing. At the time the video was taken, I was 40, my wife was 56. Does my wife look unattractive? Does my wife look 56?
I’m sure Christina can find an attractive divorcee in his mid-to-late 40s. They exist. She doesn’t have to find the average man that age attractive. She just has to find some that she thinks are attractive.
Christina said: (original letter)
“Even if I really take my time getting to know someone before we become intimate… it seems that sex is all they continue to want.“
I don’t know about you, but I was a lot less picky about my sex partners than I was about the women I entered committed relationships with. With a sex partner, I just needed to like her for a day or so. With a girlfriend, I needed to like her for several month or more. With my wife, I need to like her for the rest of our lives.
Of the people who want sex with you, only a small percentage will want a serious relationship. There’s no point getting frustrated about reality. Dating is hard. Dating with four young kids is harder. If you let yourself get easily frustrated, then your best strategy is to avoid dating.
marymary says
Karl
love this video and your story
OP
there are many attractive men in their 40s , and it’s only about 10 years older, or even less. But try to avoid the ones who are STILL not looking to settle down.
Kiki says
Karl,
you and your wife make a very beautiful couple. It would never cross my mind that she is older by you, let alone by 16 years.
Sunflower says
Depends on what she wants out of life…….a stable, loving relationship with a man who could be a potential step father to her children and life partner for herself, or fun with younger men? Hmmm, might be nice for a while, but would definitely get old. Life is full of choices. I agree with Evan (as pretty much always), she needs to broaden her spectrum and choose older men to date. A man who has children of his own and knows the terrain.
Sophie says
Brenda is spot-on and, actually, for the record, I have stopped dating because my priority is my child. This despite a single man 5 years my junior and childless happy to start a long-term relationship with me butw turning him down because the connection wasn’t strong (see Christina: there are exceptions). The other reason I have stopped looking is because, frankly dating is far too full of preconceptions and madness and I am far happier. I actually think online dating has ruined everything as it has led to far more choice and people disposing of people far more readily. Anyway, that’s a debate for another day.
Clearly a lot of entrenched views and unconscious bias on this thread so just want to finish off my contribution that has appeared to have exorcised so many by wishing Christina the best of luck in the future and hope that you get the relationship YOU want.
starthrower68 says
I just want to add, for what it’s worth, that if she can juggle dating and raising up good, well-adjusted kids, then I do wish her the best of luck in finding what she’s looking for. I still agree with Evan that an older guy who has his own kids would probably be a pleasant surprise in terms of being a better match. Dating as a single parent is not for the faint of heart. If you like someone but the kids don’t, then the kids are probably going to win that one, at least while they’re young enough and still at home. I have dated, intermittently, but then I found myself wanting to compartmentalize and keep kids separate from whom I was dating if it got beyond the first date. I think I felt a sense of guilt that I didn’t feel if I say, hung out with my friends when I wasn’t with the kids. I have found it a good time in my life to do some of the things I did not do before I became a wife and mother, like go back to school. I don’t point this out to make the OP feel like she should or shouldn’t date. Only to tell her that while no, dating is by no means fair, there are different but just as good options worth considering in dating or outside of dating.
Evan Marc Katz says
Your advice, Sophie, is nothing more than “do what I did”. You stopped dating so the OP should as well. If you read her post, you can tell she doesn’t want to stop dating. She just wants to find a commitment-oriented man. I told her which types of men would be more inclined to commit to her – and it’s not 34-year-old never married types, for the most part. What part of my take do you disagree with? Do you think that – based on what Cristina wrote – she wants to take the next 15 years off of love like Brenda? Or that she might want to find a like-minded family man who happens to also be divorced?
starthrower68 says
I will hand it to the OP; she’s got more stamina than I do. I’ve raised 2 good boys who are fine young men, but now have a defiant, rebellious tween I’m raising. She requires every ounce of mental and emotional energy I have and it’s exhausting. And I am pretty sure that there is no man who will go near that drama.
RustyLH says
I always advice men to think twice if she has girls. There are huge risks there for a man outside of the normal drama.
starthrower68 says
And Rusty, if he takes your advice, then that’s a win for me. The most important job I have ever done and will ever do is bringing up members of the next generation. Men will come and go and without little consequence. But doing my due diligence as a parent has ramifications for generations.
RustyLH says
I don’t disagree with that either. Not an easy job bringing up kids. If your daughter is that much of a handful, imagine the danger to a man if he becomes involved. Many men have had false accusations made against them. It’s not a pretty picture.
Sophie says
Your “for the most part” sums up what I am getting at. Yes, the majority of them won’t want to take on a ‘single mom’ with 4 kids but it’s generalising because there are always exceptions to every rule. She may want to widen her net and criteria, I don’t know, I just offer an alternative vision and a bit more hope that her current quest may not be as futile as everyone on here would lead her to believe based on my own experience.
I usually agree with your advice and male perspective but this time I felt it was an over-simplification and I wanted Christina to know there were people out there who were facing similar issues. I wasn’t offering advice per se; merely shared understanding and support. That is all.
Greg Figueroa says
Evan is right about giving guys in your situation a look over. Most childless guys prefer the flexibility and attention from childless women. Short term it’s easier to do things without wrangling the logistics of a single mother and long term a lot of these guys don’t want the added responsibility. There’s nothing wrong with being a single mother, the issue, like Evan mentioned, is lifestyles not gelling.
RustyLH says
I wanted to give my take on why men aren’t interested in a woman with 4 kids. At least not the top shelf” guys, nor the next 3 shelves down.
OK, take an age appropriate guy for the 34 year old self described MILF in the OP. As an example let’s go 5 years up and 5 years down. So guys 29 to 39 are hitting on her and going on dates. This is due to her looks and her sexual desirability. But why no long term interest? Look at it from their side. If they are attractive men, they have other options. I have been in that position. One girl would have 1 to 4 kids, while another would have no kids.
OK, so we’ll call them Nokids and Yeskids. With Nokids I can call up spur of the moment to see if she wants to go do something. I can drive up on my motorcycle unannounced and say, “want to go for a ride?” With Yeskids, this is not likely to be an option. She will need notice, and often, lot’s of it.
With Nokids, if we decide to spend some time together at her place, we can cook something together, and it’s a good chance I will like what we are cooking. With Yeskids, the tastes of the kids will dictate what we can cook. With them being young, it is almost assured that I can’t make anything spicy.
With Nokids, we can eat, and then cuddle romantically and watch TV or a movie, or just turn the lights down and kiss. With Yeskids, this can only happen once the kids go to bed and are asleep. Earlier than that and you are constantly interrupted by kids. Add to that how every woman I did this with will inevitably yell at her kids while we are laying there. Usually they are getting too loud and so instead of getting up, she just yells loud enough for them to hear, telling them to be quiet.
And if Nokids and I, go out, it is not very expensive. About 20 bucks for fast food, 30 more for movie with drinks and or popcorn. Maybe 40 if we both have both. Maybe a bit more. In short, even with a nice restaurant, you can keep the date to about $100 give or take. Add in 4 boys, with Yeskids, and that goes right out the window. Plus, with them being so young, what you can watch at the movies is greatly reduced. If she leaves the children home, it still costs lot more. If you want more than a couple of dates a month you are likely going to have to pay the babysitter. with 4 kids, that’s not going to be cheap. Having relatives that will gladly watch them for free helps immensely, but it seems this is rare. For one thing, many times the parents live hours away. Other times, they are unfit to do this, and others the woman isn’t close with her parents. In short it’s not always an option.
With Yeskids, holidays such as Christmas are going to be much more expensive, not to mention more birthdays.
OK, let’s just face it…with kids, everything is more expensive and less convenient. Now add in the fact that you will never be #1 in her heart…well…what exactly is the upside for one of these guys who are single with no kids?
The bottom line is that for her, her kids are a big part of her life and she loves them immensely. For him, they interfere with everything, and add cost…a lot of cost, especially when it is 4 kids.
In short, if we believe her about her looks, which we should, she went from being a girl who could have her pick of men, to a woman that men don’t want. Not the that men she wants, and even some she feels she would be settling for. But, she still has options. We always do.
#1, She can do nothing differently. Just keep dating the same types of guys she does presently, and hope that she eventually finds one that will look past her kids. While she may in fact find some guy who overlooks all of that, the odds are stacked heavily against her. The upside to this is that in her wait, she is not going without sex. There are many women like her, but not nearly as good looking, who can’t get guys into bed with them, at least not with any regularity. There are women in her shoes that have gone years without sex. But because the sex comes so easily to her, she does not see what she does have. It in fact becomes a turnoff to her as evidenced by her statement regarding guys calling for a booty call. Again, i only point that out because there are women who would be happy for even that. We always appreciate what we don’t have, and don’t appreciate what we do have.
#2, she can put an emphasis on finding a man who also has kids…preferably one who has joint custody, or full custody. Not easy to find…but one who has 2 to 4 kids that he sees every other weekend and once a week, plus half the summer, might be a good choice. He still understands that kids do interrupt your life, and cost money. Plus, he has also likely dealt with woman who don’t want to deal with his kids. So he is going to be able to look past the kids.
#3, Start looking for men significantly older…like 40 to 50. Preferably a guy who missed out on having kids and regrets it. Maybe he would even give her the one thing she doesn’t have, if she wants it…a daughter. Up side is she might be able to find one who is relatively financially stable, which improves the lives of herself and her boys.
#4, Start dating men significantly less attractive than she is used to. Or maybe guys that are still attractive in many ways but had some silly deal breaker, like being short.
The choice is hers. The odds of finding a great guy by doing what she has been doing are very very very slim, and she knows that…but yes, she might win the lottery/be struck by lightening and have that one in a millions top shelf guy with no kids come along and marry her. But if you want, I’ll make a wager with you on that happening in the next 5 years. I’m willing to bet a whole bunch of money on it. Her best bet is to in some way that is agreeable to her, change what she is looking for.
sandra says
I think RustyLH is right on about the guy who missed out on having a family being a very viable option. The man will be thrilled to be part of an insta-family. Only thing is , OP may not find some of these men attractive, they may have other issues, and she just may prefer the occasional fun she can have with men her age. Older men often have lots of issues, are inflexible, and run away from anything they perceive as “drama” or resembling their failed marriage/s. But, unlikely things happen, so who knows. But the older guy who never had kids is a great option if she can find one she clicks with.
Joe says
I think Rusty nailed it. As Evan and others always say, the more qualifications you put on who you want to date, the more you’re limiting your dating pool. And then you need to hope that you’re what they’re looking for! Simply having a kid (let alone four) makes the pool of men who would want to date you smaller. I’m sure you could find someone who ticks off all your checkboxes, given enough time, but what if it takes you ten years? You could have spent the last ten years happily with someone else who ticks off most-but-not-all of your checkboxes.
Tim says
Women are supposed to be more selective and unforgiving. There is nothing wrong with that. They’re just different.
RustyLH says
I agree that they are different, but by what arbitrary decree are women supposed to be or allowed to be more selective? In this country, using the court system, a woman can straight wreck a man so men have just as much right to be selective. In fact only a fool is not selective. Nothing…not one single thing can wreck your life like a woman can. Which is exactly why many men are opting out.
Evan Marc Katz says
Rusty – I’m starting to tire of this myopia from such a bright guy. “Not one single thing can wreck your life like a woman can” is a statement that can EASILY be flipped to read “Not one single thing can wreck your life like a man can. Which is exactly why so many women are opting out.” In other words, not only are you not helping me out, but you’re not helping yourself out either. Become like the woman you want to date – warm, positive, and optimistic, not bitter, jaded, and one-sided.
RustyLH says
I think most women would agree that marrying the wrong guy could wreck their life. I do not disagree with that. I do disagree with the one-sided statement that women are “supposed” to be more selective. It’s an ignorant mantra that has been spread for too long. The OKCupid survey was proof of its damage.
Frankly I think men, while having issues of their own have a healthier attitude about the opposite sex in this regard. I do agree that women are selective, but i reject the notion that this is good, or somehow their birthright.
Why it is like this is whole other debate in and of itself starting with Disney movies. You don’t see shows aimed at boys of some illusive Princess Charming. Plus add in the biological reproduction aspect of only having one egg per month while men have a near unlimited supply of reproductive material.
My point is that propagating this notion is not helpful. If we are to respect this idea that it is their right, then we would then have to respect the right of men to pursue and bed every single they can in his biological calling to father as many children as possible. I for one, reject that also.
Amanda says
Yeah right a man in his 50’s.. those types of men have problems getting it up.. No offense men but ya all do and you know it. She doesn’t have to take anyone’s bs advice… Most of ya all are trolls….
Tim says
Ah, the age old dilemma of single mothers: Young hot guys only want them for sex.
Amanda says
LOL not all women want sex.. I have been sex free for 9.5 years and I don’t miss it. Besides that is what toys are for, batteries are better than diseases.
Sunflower says
Single mothers need sex too! Women just need to be wise enough to tell the difference, especially if they want more.
anon says
since when is sex a need? I haven’t gotten any in years and I don’t really care anymore. Why? Because my son comes first, not getting some D. Plus, screwing some guy and then possibly ending up with a disease or pregnant out of wedlock again (protection does fail, you know) is something I don’t really want to deal with.
NASHWC says
LOL! It no longer surprises (now only humors) me to constantly witness the stratospheric entitlement mentality exhibited by women raised within the current Western culture; one which promotes such narcissistic “You can have it all” attitudes from those such as the OP. Today, over 70% of divorces are initiated by woman and I would not doubt that the currently popular ‘men are disposable’ meme has an influence on this, and probably the OP’s as well. I could imagine that (with the encouragement of her gal ‘friends’ whispering to her such things as “You’re too good for him” and “You deserve better”) she convinced herself that a replacement was ‘just around the corner’. Enter reality and she doesn’t like this at all! Therefore, it’s all the guys fault: “All they want is sex”. Well, duh. Welcome to third-wave feminism. You bought into it, ladies; now you own it.
As a 40-something, childless guy, I am occasionally one of ‘those guys’ the OP complains about but it’s only because my many experiences/relationships with Westernized women (many of them single moms) as a whole has taught me two universal truths: 1) women LOVE and CRAVE attention [mitigates self-esteem issues so many women have], and 2) women with any appreciable SMV will ALWAYS seek out a guy who is better, younger, richer, whatever than her [re: hypergamy] and if she marries him, will likely bail if he ever loses this status, even if only temporarily. So my attitude is: “I didn’t write the ‘new’ rules; I just have to live by them”. It’s ok with me, actually. Lots of fun so far 🙂
I seriously doubt the OP will take Evan’s proper advise (after all, he didn’t tell her what she wanted to hear) but instead will continue consulting her Rationalization Hamster … and continue the experiences she has had. Chances are good that, some months or years from now, Evan (or another dating coach) will hear from her again .. and again .. which is quite a lucrative business for guys such as Evan 🙂
Tim says
Like I said, what is the point of stating the fact over and over again that women are more selective, harsh, and unforgiving on looks, physique, status, confidence, etc ? Its just supposed to be that way.
A woman can be mediocre in every aspect but still want and attract men who are way better than her in every aspect.
If you’re an average/alright guy who doesn’t stand out, then you should find fulfillment in other things, live for self-preservation and do your bit to end this vicious cycle of bringing another average looking young man into this world by not procreating.
RustyLH says
Sorry Tim but you are just wrong, that is all. While you are right that Western women are “more selective, harsh, and unforgiving on looks, physique, status, confidence, etc ?” You are wrong that “Its just supposed to be that way.” There’s a huge difference between something being that way, and it supposed to be that way.
For instance, a large number of men act like idiot pervs on dating sites…but just because they are that way doesn’t mean they should be that way.
If women can’t learn to moderate themselves, to learn to be more realistic without whining that they had to “settle,” then they should not be surprised when Western men increasingly reject them.
Here’s a good example. When I was hanging out on Rory’s blog, there was a woman who was dating two guys. One was everything she wanted in a man, except one thing. The other one was better looking but had many personality faults. Now this is all according to her. What she couldn’t get past in the first guy was that he didn’t have nice teeth. not rotting, just not pearly white and straight. I watched her whine that she just couldn’t win. If she could have a magic fairy wave a wand, she would have the two men combined so that the great guy would also look great, and have a tooth paste commercial smile.
Rens says
Had the same problem. I think they’re a lot on dating sites and because you have kids most won’t find you interesting so only the jerks that want sex now respond. I had given up on the idea and I dont blame guys for not wanting someone with in my case 3 kids, totally understandable. But then I met a guy on a forum who has been single most of his life, lonely, 10 years older. He thought he was ugly and noone wanted him. He said I want something that breathes. I thought i can do that. Most have demand lists from here to Tokyo. Not him. He lives an ocean away but wants to come over. The great guys are hiding on forums. Show interest yourself cause they won’t make a move.
starthrower68 says
Oh dear God not the hampster argument. Sigh, ok let’s just get all the buzzwords out there now. Single moms = low sexual market value, little red pill and on and on and on.
NASHWC says
Thanks for the assist! 🙂
starthrower68 says
Yes it’s very uplifting and edifying to reduce human beings down to some arbitrary ratings system. Bucky for you.
Jenn says
I hate the idea that women are not being realistic if they expect a guy their age to fall in love with them. I know it’s different for the woman in this case because she has children, but I just want to say that I think it sucks that women are expected to compromise on age all the time. What if she genuinely is not attracted to men in their 40s? What happens then? Men don’t seem to be getting told that if they’re not having any luck chasing young girls, they should focus on dating women their own age. It’s almost like they’re allowed to have this immature, Peter Pan I’ll-never-grow-up-therefore-the-women-I’m-attracted-to-won’t-either mentality, while women are told to wise up and change their expectations because no man their age will want them. I do agree that if things don’t seem to be working out for her, she does need to change something. I just don’t think it’s fair that she compromise on dating guys her own age, if that’s what she truly wants. It’s a fact that most men (not all, but most) in their 40s are not as attractive as their 35 year old counterparts. I am 33 and I’m not interested in anyone over 40. While I agree that there are good-looking men in their 40s, many more of them are not. They are usually, but not always, a combination of balding, overweight, graying, hairy in every place other than their head, and wrinkled. Even some guys in their early 40s look like they’ve already been through the wringer. I’m still young and I want to enjoy what’s left of my youth with someone my own age who can keep up with me. I’ll admit that it’s true that there are plenty of guys my age for whom that would not be possible though! I can acknowledge that some 40-something guys are better looking then their 35 year old counterparts, but the fact is that that isn’t very common.
Chance says
Jenn, I can assure you that older men are told all of the time that they shouldn’t be chasing young women, which it generally good advice since it’s usually ineffective to chase someone much younger than you. The OP is certainly welcome to continue trying to date someone her age. However, it is going to be much harder to find someone her age that is willing to be with her (given her situation). There is a big difference between having the right to be attracted to a certain type of person and actually being able to date such a person.
Jenn says
Chance, thanks for your input. I guess the point that I was trying to make is that it is unfair that it is considered perfectly acceptable by our current cultural standards for older men to chase after women who are 10+ years their junior. Yet, if a woman in her 30s who has kids wants to date and have a relationship, then the only real option she has is to focus on guys who are ten years older? I find that laughable considering the amount of dating profiles written by men my age who state under the Kids heading that they’d either “prefer not to say”, “probably not”, or “No, I don’t want kids”. Once you’re past your twenties, it seems to me that it’s just as much the guys who need to wise up as the women. Because the reality is that the older they get, the more likely it is that they are going to meet women who already have children. Unless they only want to date girls who could be their daughter, that is.
Julia says
You are 33 and 30 seems too old? My boyfriend will be turning 40 soon, I just turned 33. He looks a hell of a lot better than many men younger than me. If you don’t want them men who’ve been through the wringer, don’t go out with them but you are seriously limiting your dating pool if you refuse to date anyone more than 6 years older than you.
Jenn says
Julia, I’ll assume that was a typo – LOL no, 30 is not too old for me. But yes, I’ll be honest: I don’t really want to date guys who are more than 7 years older because a) I usually do not find them physically attractive, as I’ve stated, and b) they re usually not on the same page as me in life as far as wanting marriage and children. For every good-looking, childless, never-married man over the age of 40, there are about 50 who are no longer that attractive who’ve already had all the kids they want, and just got divorced. So while it may seem to you like I’m limiting my options, I’m telling you that those guys don’t even qualify as options for me, so it would make no sense for me to waste my time dating them anyway. It’s not that they aren’t good catches, because they are – for somebody else.
RustyLH says
Nobody says you have to date all of them. If a woman does decide to include older men in her dating choices, she doesn’t have to date all older men. She just has the option to date one she finds attractive. One of those 1 in 50. I have seen many women do this and then say that it was the best relationship they’ve ever been in. Actually, women who have been unhappy with their love lives, who make a significant change in some way, tend to be very happy. I remember seeing a woman on one of those talk shows when this subject came up. She was a professional woman. She was having work done on her roof. The guy doing the work was just a couple of years older, but she admitted that previously she wouldn’t have given him the time of day because he was not a college educated professional. They struck up a conversation and she couldn’t get him out of her mind so called him back to do more work. Then they started dating, ended up married and now have kids. She told the host that for the first time she was happy with her love life. And, stated that the man is her best friend as well as her husband. They were past the honeymoon years, also so it is likely that they are still together.
I think it should be noted that in the fairy tale, the Princess kissed a frog who turned into a prince. There is a moral to that story.
Tim says
Jenn, How many 35 yr old single dads do you know of who can get hot 22 yr old college girls in bed with ease?
Women already have it better. Stop complaining.
NASHWC says
Wherever I read dating column comments, I very often see (presumably women) posters regularly use phrases such as “women are [constantly] told to [settle] ..”, “women are expected to [compromise on age/looks/whatever] .. “, and “nobody tells men to [do whatever these things women are supposedly told to do]..”, but I have not once read or heard these assertions from any professional/respected media outlet, women’s/lifestyle/’progressive’ magazine, dating coach, dating blog or any other venue; only anonymous internet user comments to an article. And yes, I read allot of material every day. Maybe I missed it. Can someone please, please just point out one definitive source? And I don’t mean an article assertion that has been re-framed or re-interpreted by someone who lacks reading comprehension skills (and I will say that many responses I see to comments demonstrate quite clearly a serious lack of skill in this area, so it’s very likely this will happen to mine).
On the contrary, what I do often hear and read in media and magazines are direct suggestions to women that they are totally “empowered” to love/date/have sex with whomever they like without shame or consequence, to never ‘settle’ (a.k.a – compromise), and to use whatever sexual assets/powers they possess for personal gain without serious consideration of the consequences to them or to the men they manipulate. I strongly suspect that this ‘always being pressured’ argument women keep trotting out primarily originates from other women (or that person’s self-esteem or insecurity issues), not men or any media influence. Total ‘straw man’ argument ..
RustyLH says
Jenn, you can hate the idea all you want. Nobody can tell you who you must date. However, when those you prefer don’t prefer you…where does that leave you? A wise old lady once told me to want in one hand and poo in the other and see which one fills up faster. In short, just because we want something doesn’t mean we will get it. Life isn’t fair..dating isn’t fair. You think men need to wise up, but men don’t care what you think. See, that is the hardest part for every last one of us to learn…we cannot, and will never be able to change the other side. They will do what they are going to do. You think men who prefer a woman 10 years younger should wise up but they have other options, even if the majority of American women that age won’t date them. You can’t change the other side, you can only change what you do. This may seem unfair but again, nothing about this is fair, ever has been fair or ever will be fair. You can be angry that men didn’t get Oprah’s memo that men should marry older women, or threw it in the trash, but that isn’t going to get you anywhere. Here’s the predicament. Yes, for a long time it was more often the case that man married younger women. Or more correctly, women their age and younger. Rarely did a man marry older women, even by a few years. Well, now women want to do the same. But men aren’t playing ball, so women throw a tantrum about it. That tantrum and $1.79 will you you a cup of coffee. Since both genders want to marry younger, it is a standoff. The problem is that men are fine not getting married. So they will win a staring contest over this issue, not to mention that they can and will find other avenues to get what they want.
My point is simply this. It does no good to complain what the other side does. The men of this country aren’t going to read what Jenn says and say, “Well golly gee, she’s right, we should change our ways.” What they are doing is working for them. Why would they change?
You don’t have to marry a man 10 years older than you, but a man your age doesn’t have to marry you either. But maybe what you want will magically appear in front of you one day. Happens to other people. But if it doesn’t, the only person you can blame if you are still single is you…it won’t be anybody else’s fault. The only person that can change your situation is you. But change is painful. Very few people actually want to change. They want everybody else to change. But the only one who can change your circumstances is you.
starthrower68 says
Since I couldn’t respond to your most recent response to me there, I’m going to do it here. I’m going to guess that you weren’t implying that just because I have a strong-willed daughter, that she would make false accusations against any man I was involved with. But I will say that sometimes it’s not what we say, but how we say it that might cause someone to misconstrue the meaning, especially on a written forum where we don’t get non-verbal cues.
RustyLH says
I am not saying that she would do anything. I am saying that for ANY man, with ANY woman who has a daughter, there is risk there whether he acknowledges it or not. And if she chooses to lash out at him and make a false accusation, his life will be screwed for at least 6 months. They don’t drop those cases…ever…without letting the maximum amount of time pass, and in the meantime, life is going to be rough.
I have friends that this happened to, but I will use just one incident, where later the step daughter wrote the man 2 letters of apology, and yet his life is still affected by it. Once the accusation is leveled, some people will never look at the accused man the same again. Some people continue to believe that something did happen, and others will reserve judgment with the possibility that something did. In both cases, they will in some ways treat that man as if he is guilty.
It’s ugly, and the reason I will not date women with daughters. Just too much risk.
Jenn says
You can keep telling yourself that men have all these options all you want, Rusty. It doesn’t change the fact that most women do not want to date someone who is out of their age range by more than 5-7 years. The reality is that most women want a peer, a partner – someone to grow old with, not someone who will practically be ready for the retirement home by the time their kids graduate from high school. My point in saying that men need to wise up as much as women do, is that guys don’t seem to realize that the longer they stay single, the harder it will be to find women who’ve never been married and don’t have any kids. And don’t think that all you have to do to attract younger women who do fit the “never-married, no kids” criteria is to be fit and financially successful. Most women share my preference of not wanting to date someone who looks like he could be their father, regardless of how good he looks for his age, and how good of a job he has. I don’t care if a guy is freakin’ Richard Branson, he is not someone I would consider for myself. 🙂
RustyLH says
Women where? China? Most women on the site I use have a preference of men their age to as much as 15 to 20 years on average. These are not poor dirt farmers, these are college educated women in the fastest growing economy in the world. How about Brazil? I also use a site there. Average preference by women in their 20’s through 40’s is 3 years younger to 12 years older. Two American men I personally know here in Jacksonville, are married to women 13 years younger. The Brazilian man I know is married to a Brazilian woman 9 years younger. Brazil is the #1 economy in South America and #3 in the western hemisphere. That’s just two of the sites. As I said, men do have alternatives. Now, you can get all mad and angry about it, or recognize that it is real and there. Nothing good ever comes from denying truths that are there.
I don’t dispute that women may have a preference for men close to their own age, but the fact is, if that isn’t working for you, what are you going to do? Wish really hard that it starts working for you? Or wish really really really hard?
The good news is that most men prefer women their age and younger. However, given the choice of 3 women with all things being equal, except age, men will usually choose the younger woman…to a point. 7 to 12 years younger, sure. 15 to 20 years younger…probably not for most men, regardless of what they say. I also don’t think it is unreasonable to say that the older a woman is, the harder she will have to work to keep him. While a much younger woman can get by more on her youth and looks, an older woman will have to be sweeter, more forgiving, more patient, more generous, more health conscious, less selfish, etc… The same holds true for an older man which is probably why people who do get into these relationships as the younger person, often report that it is the best relationship they’ve had.
Jenn says
Rusty,
You have a very small sample size. I am a woman, who has had many women friends and coworkers over the years. I can tell you for a fact that while it does happen where a woman chooses to date a guy 10+ years older, in many cases women do not want a guy with that much of an age difference. None of the women I have known have ever specifically sought out older men. In fact, most of the women I talk to find it creepy when older guys try to hit on them. You may have seen a few profiles on the Internet where women have specified a wide age range, but that doesn’t mean they really want a guy that much older. I put in my profiles that I’m willing to go up to 40, but that doesn’t mean I specifically want a bunch of 40 year olds contacting me. Ideally, I want guys within 3-5 years of my age range, but to put that in a profile would limit my dating pool too much.
RustyLH says
Jenn, you can spout that until you are blue in the face. I assure your opinion may in fact be the majority, but who cares. I know for a fact that there are many women who PREFER older guys. You don’t have to believe that and in your small corner of the world, the women may think it’s creepy, but that doesn’t matter. If a man prefers younger women, he only needs to find one who will fall in love with him, and I assure you that it DOES happen.
After all, I can assure you that the hundreds of guys I know thin it’s creepy when a woman 5 years older contacts them, but does that matter? She only needs one guy to fall in love with her. That’s the great thing about finding love…you only need one person to fall in love with you.
But I assure you that while more women may not want to date or marry older guys, the census information shows that your info is not relevant because over 20% of the women are at a minimum, open to the idea of marrying guys 6 to 10 years older and 10% are open to the guy being 10+ years older.
What you seem to think is that a bunch of older men chase little girls with a bag of candy like a bunch of pervs. What I can tell you from my experience and most men mirror, is that we do not do the pursuing…the younger girl does. My first wife was 11.5 years younger. I had cut off contact with her while I was stationed in San Diego. I had moved and did not give her my new phone number. After a month, she called my parents and told them that she lost my number and so they gave my new number to her. She chased very hard. Every younger woman I have dated has been the one who chased. And it isn’t rare. So excuse me if your story, entertaining as it is, rings hollow for me and any other man who has experienced the same thing.
At the same time, I also understand that not all men will be attractive to younger women. I benefit from a face that looks younger than it is. Yes, I know everyone says that but I believe my luck comes from years of working the night shifts in the Navy, not being a sun baby, never doing drugs, going very light on the alcohol, staying in shape, not being a junk food junkie, and being blessed with the youthful skin of my mother as well as facial features from her side of the family that are also symmetrical. I am fully aware that had I taken after my dad’s side, I would not have this luck. Am I a 10? No, and I am more than comfortable with that. I’ll be brave enough to open myself up to your criticism. A picture below. Do I look 49 in this picture?
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/russellhushjr/Me_zpsd7277504.jpg
You don’t have to believe me…my experiences don’t require anyone to believe. But I wonder…when you and your friends hit 45, maybe 50, will you think it’s creepy for an older person to date or marry a younger person? If you are 50, and a 39 year old man falls in love with you, will you tell him that it would be creepy for you to date him? I’m going to guess no.
Karmic Equation says
Ya, Rusty, you do look your age. Albeit not too bad for your age 🙂
This is what looking young for your age really looks like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/tessa99/KE%20Album/Smile-1.jpg
Do you remember how old I’ve outed myself to be?
Selena says
Brave of you Rusty to put your picture up. But yeah, you do look like you could be on either side of 50. Even more so without the Harley cap I would guess. I will say, you’ve got great skin – I’m envious.
Karmic, I will also say you DO look younger than 47 – 48? Very cute too! 🙂
Mimi says
Rusty,
Men’s testosterone levels drop drastically after 40-45, and so do men’s libido, erection quality, and sexual performance overall (of course, there are huge individual differences). Women who prefer dating much older (45+) guys either don’t care much about sex, or have some other priorities, e.g., financial.
RustyLH says
Selena, thanks for the compliment. As to me looking my age, I don’t have an issue with that because I put it there for you to see so it of course informs your mind and influences. At the same time, I had a beard at that time, which because of the gray influences people’s opinion. I have had many women tell me when I wear it that I should either shave it or color it because it ages me. I tend to shave it off after wearing it for a short time. Think of it as a woman with the most beautiful long hair, then cutting it off. For me it’s the opposite. I just get the urge to grow it, wear it for a while, and then shave it.
As for whether I look my age, I prefer to go by women I know, and the fact is, many of them, before I informed them of my age, when not wearing the beard, thought I was younger…much younger. More than once I have had women who were 10+ years younger pursue me for relationships, and continued to do so while knowing my age. Some however, were very shocked to learn my age and did not want a relationship with somebody much older, so the chose to no longer desire a relationship. It is those that I feel have the most honest opinion of my appearance. They think I am much younger. I totally understand that a woman who is just being friendly to me might just say I look younger to be nice, so I never put much stock in it. However, when a woman shows serious interest before knowing my age, and then withdraws that interest based on my age, I see it as an honest belief that I do not look my age. They are always very honest that it is my age that has changed their desire for a relationship.
@ Karmic Yes, you do look good. I must admit though, that I may be a prejudiced judge because I have always been attracted to Asian women, and it is true that many Asian women look younger than their age. Google a Korean girl named Park Chorong. She is the leader of a Kpop group called Apink. Look at the Google image page for her. Note that she joined the group when she was 20, and is now 23, yet in many of her pictures she looks like she could be 12 to 14 years old. Only a few pictures where she is going out of her way to look elegant, such as for the MAMA awards, does she look her age, and even that is still debatable.
But now the real issue. I have discussed this with many men and they all basically agree that this often the case. Not always the case…often the case…many women feel they must keep a man’s ego in check to the point that they become somewhat insulting, or very stingy with compliments. They believe this is the best way to deal with men. In fact it is the complete opposite and anyone reading and actually learning from Evan would understand that. What is it that Evan teaches a man looks for in a woman. They look for a woman that is visually appealing to them, and a woman that makes him feel good, and feel good about himself. In short, your replies bordered on not understanding this. I expected one of a few types of responses. I think the one I expected most is what I get the most from women I know, which is that the only thing that gives a clue to my age in that picture is the beard. I am told to shave it and I will look ten years younger. And that’s pretty much consistent with what I experience from women.
Now think about this. It is claimed, and there may be something to it, that some men may in fact be simply trying to date younger women for their ego, to prove to themselves that they still have it. Could it be possible for a woman just 3 or 4 years younger to suddenly appear more appealing to him because she raves to him how great he looks and doesn’t really look his age? Could she, even being much closer to his age, provide what he is looking for? Could that cause him to suddenly become very attracted to him? Food for thought I guess. I would love to see somebody do an experiment like that. Have a group of above average men who prefer younger women have a meet and greet function where there are much younger women, but also women much closer to his own age. Unbeknownst to the men, the ladies would be given instructions. Let the younger girls only show moderate interest while the women close to his age really stroke his ego telling him that he does not look his age. Then let her give him her business card, and see if he gives her a call. I would bet money that most would.
marymary says
May youth forever weave you, his magic around your ways
And time the robber leave you, the boy’s heart all your days
Martin Stephenson
Jenn says
Rusty,
My experience is the opposite of what you describe. I’ve had many friends and coworkers over the years complain that guys on dating sites who contact them are way too old. Far too many guys who are 10, 15, or even 20+ years older than me have contacted me as well. I never said that women don’t fall for or chase much older guys. What I am saying is that yes, in the majority of cases, it is the men who are chasing after the younger women with little bags of candy. When I’m 40, I will likely be most attracted to other 40-somethings. When I’m 50, same thing. That’s how most women are. Their preferences grow with them, whereas men’s preferences skew considerably younger as they age, even if they do still largely stick to their own age range. Don’t believe me? Check out that good ol’ OkCupid study that everyone loves to quote. The data speaks for itself.
RustyLH says
Jenn,
There is a difference between initiating contact on a dating website and chasing in real life. However, I do get the online chasing as well. I won’t bore you with details. this issue is more complicated than just ages. Just like Demi Moore can easily date guys in their 20s even though she’s 51, that is not going to be the reality for most 51 year old women. But even for her, getting one to marry here, or stay married to her is still an entirely different thing.
Also, if I remember right, you are like in your late 20’s or early 30’s and still a virgin, right? Of course you are going to have the attitude that you have. But keep in mind, it takes two to Tango When you are 50, you can prefer a 50 year old guy all you want, but the reality is this…the men who are desirable tend to prefer women at least a little younger. 5 years +/- a few years is a good guide. And unless they get what they want, most are happy to remain single. Is that fair? Fair has nothing to do with it. It really is a waste of energy to even get mad over. It is what it is. There are exceptions to any rule though, and maybe you will be one of the lucky ones to get that exception. Your best bet is to find a guy now though, when age isn’t as big of a factor, and no matter what, never take the guy for granted. Call him on his BS when he truly acts up, but at the same time, in all other cases, never let him feel that you take him for granted. Make yourself irreplaceable by making him #1 in your life and keeping him that. Let the rest of the world do the tearing down, while you build him back up. Always let him know you are in his corner. If, when the world tears him down and you try to build him up, and he lashes out at you…don’t feed into it. Don’t lash back. Just let him know that you aren’t going to sit around and let him lash out at yo in his pain. Remind him that you are the one in his corner and so deserve better, then walk away. He’ll sulk…feel like crap, and realize he screwed up, and will find you and apologize.
The point here, is find a guy your age now while guys are still in the mood to marry women their age. Then make sure you keep him. Then when you are 50, he will still be there with you and you won’t have to deal with this mess. Because I assure you that when you are 50, the 47 to 53 year olds aren’t going to be nearly as smitten with you as you would like…not the ones you want anyway.
Jenn says
Rusty,
What does having a preference for a man who is my peer age-wise have to do with being a virgin? That would be the case no matter what my sexual standing is. LOL I was not disputing the reality that men are more attracted to younger women. I am very well aware of that (and not angry about it either, just resigned). My point was that while men may always continue to want young women as they age, even though they themselves could be old enough to be the girl’s father, women are different. We do not care if we are not attractive to 20 year old guys, because with few exceptions, women do not want to date guys who are that much younger than themselves. And as it happens, the vast majority tend to wind up with people who are plus or minus 5 years of their age anyway. For all the talk about May-December romances, statistically those are actually few and far between. What bothers me is talk like yours, which suggests “Hey girl, you better hurry up and find a husband fast, ’cause ain’t nobody gonna want you when you’re over 35. And you better make damn sure you’re good to him and do what he says, so he don’t wander off and find a prettier, younger version of you.” That viewpoint is not only insulting to women (who on average, tend to age much better than men do because we do more to maintain our appearance), but it’s insulting to guys to imply that they can just fall out of love at the drop of a hat simply because their women are no longer the young, starry-eyed, innocent girls they once were.
RustyLH says
Jenn, you are full of tired, worn out, debunked cliches.
First, I posted a government census website that showed that in 2012, 23% of marriages had an age difference greater than 5 years. 10.5% greater than 10 years. So this vast majority of marriages you speak of is hardly a vast majority. Is it fair to say that more marriages end up with small age gaps? Sure. Does that have everything to do with age? No, because many people meet and fall in love in high school and college, where most people are within 3 to 5 years age difference.
Also, you are one woman. The women you hang out are one small group of women compared to the 150 million women in the U.S. alone. Your views are not shared by all of them. Not even a vast majority. More than not, sure, I will give you that. But then, I know a lot of girls who did marry guys even less than 1 year age difference who express great sexual interest in some older men. So as I said, just going by what the average age difference is not conclusive.
Next up is your myth that women age better than men. Sorry but there is no empirical evidence to support you belief. Maybe because you are a woman and do not look at women in a sexual light, you are more forgiving, because the simple fact is most women do not age well either. I won’t go so far as to say that men age better, even though that is my perception when I look around, but I also understand that since I do not look at men in a sexual light, I might be more critical of women’s looks, since I am judging them on suitability to be a mate…and rejecting the vast majority.
As to having to hurry up and get married by 35. I don’t think you have to, but as noted, men do prefer younger women. As has also been noted by many top shelf women here, the top shelf men their age aren’t interested, because they are top shelf, they are finding younger women who unlike you, are interested. Do you have to throw in the towel once you hit 35? Hardly. But even the women here express that it gets harder and harder to find men they desire, who also desire them.
Evan himself has stated over and over that people need to be more serious about finding their mate when they are younger, instead of thinking that they have forever to find the right match. At some point, you are going to have to stop holding out for Mr. right, show does not exist, and settle find a Mr. Right Now. I actually do try to not be personally offensive on these boards, but there are many men out there who would love to find a virgin to marry. Being Christian I assume that you go to church. The men in church would love to find that, and we have no shortage of churches. So the question is, why can’t you find love? The answer for you is the same for all of us. You are unrealistically picky. You feel entitled to something you will likely never find.
I remember that black comedian who does a bunch of movies, can’t think of his name right now. He was doing a stand up routine and asked women to raise their hand if they felt they were a good woman. All raised their hand. Then he said to keep their hand up if they thought it was hard to find a good man. Most kept their hands up. Then he asked the men to stand up if they are a good man. Most did. He said, “Ladies, it seems you have a problem with perception.”
You are going to keep this image in your head of this perfect man who is going to make you happy, and then one day you might even think you found him, and marry him. Years down the road you will realize that he is only human with faults, like the rest of us. I hope you have matured enough to deal with that.
tamara says
Rusty, I agree with u on some stuff, but how many times do u have to tell us that many older men prefer younger women? I know u mean to be helpful, but it’s gotten to the point where it’s less helpful and more potentially hurtful.
Remember that nasty ex bf I mentioned who showed what a horrible person he is after I refused to marry him or get back with him? He still smses daily, and one thing he likes to say is “You’re getting older, u think many other guys will want u?”
It just makes me think a)Yeah I do think i’m a gd enough person that other guys will like me, b) Even if nobody else wanted me, I STILL wouldn’t wanna be with u.
I think that’s what some other women feel when it comes to significantly older men. (Some women prefer much older men, some are willing to consider a great much older man, but not all women are like that). Some women will not wanna be with an older man, no matter what, they wanna be with a peer or nobody. U aren’t gonna change their minds, and u aren’t helping them with such comments. Meanwhile your comments end up rubbing it in to women that we’re devalued by some men based on smthg that We Can’t Help. Clearly everyone ages.
RustyLH says
Tamara, First let me say that any man who would say that to you is scum. I never go out of my way to say anything degrading or insulting. That doesn’t mean somebody won’t be offended at what I say.
But then, Tamara, many of the women you speak of say some vile stuff themselves. I see a lot of women on her, such as Jenn trying to convince us that all women are creeped out if an older man shows interest. It’s simply not true. We hear that men over 40 are all beer bellied, losers with poor hygiene. We hear that men are weak because they can’t handle a strong modern woman who makes more money than he does. No, we have no problem with money. Most of us have no problem with a woman who is successful, even if she is more successful than us. Actually, it is the woman who typically has problem with that. We have no problem with her being strong, we have a problem with her being obnoxious, or stubborn and poor at compromising. Too many “strong” women have a problem with compromising because they are so afraid of being walked on. They become what they fear. I don’t care if there are some women who refuse to date older men. Be it men just a little outside
f the 5 year bubble, or a guy 10+ years. That’s their choice. Choices do have consequences. That is true for all of us. If I insisted on holding out for a woman who is 25 to 35, I would have nobody to blame but myself to blame when I never find anyone. But it would be my right to be stubborn like that.
Fortunately for me, I’m not interested in anything so unrealistic. But then, I am confounded that I have had several women in just the last 2 years show extreme interest in marriage, all of them under 30. 3 in Brazil (23, 26), 1 in the Philippines (23), 3 in the U.S. (24 -28), and 2 in China (27-28). I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. It’s not what I am looking for. I am still talking to the 27 year old Brazilian simply because she has already lived in my area, and is the same religion. Actually attended my church while she lived here, before her divorce.
I would give anything for every one of those women to have had an extra 10 to 20 years on them, yet be just like they are. I can tell you this Tamara, Oprah lied. It’s like that letter Evan had where he refused to take an older woman on as a client because she refused to date an older man. She insisted on having a younger man. It was her turn to have fun as she put it. I am not sure that was what he should have done. If all she wanted was fun, I think I would have counseled her to make it clear that all she was after was fun. Not a LTR. I will always tell women to go ahead and chase the young guys if all they are after is fun. It’s a very smart decision if that is all you want. You might even get lucky, and find a younger guy who does want an LTR. Look
Tamara, I am a man, and yet I will tell you that most men aren’t worth YOUR time. I couldn’t care less if a woman wants a younger man. However, I am a man, and I know what many of these men say. I’ve seen many men do one night stands, and short term affairs with these older women, and then totally bad mouth them when they are back around the guys. calling them fat, saggy, etc…and those are the nicer things. I’m not a cold hearted person so I never participate in that stuff. I personally find it disgusting.
And yet there also great guys like that guy who posted a video of he and his much older wife dancing. So my advice to women who want a younger guy is to become a man in this instance. As Evan said, men look for sex and find love. So go out there, have fun, and don’t worry about it going anywhere. Just keep it in mind that the guy is likely not interested in marriage, and if you do that, you will see the signs with clearer vision, and when you see it, have an eye out for a replacement, then rinse and repeat.
Sometimes, they will give very good clues. I recently spoke with a women a bit younger than me who is dating a guy, living with him, and he is 6 years younger. She let slip that he doesn’t want to “define” their relationship by using labels like boyfriend/girlfriend, etc… Remember the Steve Harvey interview on Oprah where he talked about asking his daughter’s boyfriend what his plan was for his daughter. The boyfriend said, “We just kickin it.” Well that is what that younger guy was doing to that woman. But it’s up to her to wake up and realize it.
I will summarize my beliefs on this subject.
I believe that the majority of men are not interested in marrying a woman more than a year or two older, and the vast majority are not interested in long term when she is older by more than a few years.
I believe most men are more than OK with short term relationships with women of any age so long as he likes what he sees and likes how she makes him feel. Long term relationships are a different story.
I think something has to give. Most men want a woman their age or younger, and will often go for the younger woman if he can do so, while most women want a man within 5 or 6 years of their age, a man within a few years older to 10 years younger, or a man within a few years younger to 10 years older. (going by preferences I see on American sites).
I think some men are put off by a woman’s profile when he is within her preferred range, but he is in the upper few years and she is showing a clear preference for younger men. (My advice…lie. Make the range equal on both sides and then just ignore the older guys you aren’t interested in.
I believe that women in the U.S. of all races, have become more open to dating men of other races.
I believe that men in the U.S. of all races, have become more open to dating women of other races. This has increasingly opened their mind to women in other countries.
I think women believe stereotypes about foreign women because it is comforting to do so.
I think younger women are far more open to dating, and to a lesser extent, marrying older men that some women believe.
I think the numbers concerning the above lead to that misunderstanding because there are more women who might be open to marrying an older man, but don’t do so because they meet their husband in high school, college, or other activities that filter people by age. For instance, most churches have Bible school classes before or after the sermon that are segregated into age groups. Such as college age, 30 and under, 30’s, 40’s, 50+. In addition, night clubs. Regardless, the link (2012) I posted in another post showed that the number of people marrying with an age gap of 5+ and 10+ years has doubled in 6 years if Lisa’s 2006 in for is to be trusted. I do trust it. The 2012 info stated that nearly 1-4 women marries a man more than 5 years older, an about half of those are 10+. Finally while I think there are more younger women open to the idea, not enough men keep their appearance up enough to take advantage of it.
I do think that if you want to date somebody younger, you will be under far more pressure to keep yourself very fit, whether you are a man or woman.
I also think that if you are older, it is much more likely for your partner to cheat, or leave you for somebody younger and fitter, if you marry somebody younger. I think men are more likely to be scum in this area so I think the older women bear an unfair burden here.
This now novel length so I’ll write something else at the end of the comments.
tamara says
@Rusty:
1) Thanks, I’d already realised he’s a terrible person. Btw I wasn’t comparing your comments to my ex’s nasty remark, I was comparing my sentiments towards him to the sentiments that some women have towards much older men. I don’t think women who are so unattracted to older men can reconsider later; if they do, it’ll only be out of desperation to have a partner.
2) Even though I don’t mind dating signif. older guys (I’ve also dated someone a yr younger though), it bothers me that I’ll almost certainly have many yrs alone at the end of my life (if I marry a guy many yrs older). It seems a long way off, but still.
3) Aww pls don’t call men scum, I don’t believe that.
4) Are most men That unconcerned with a woman’s education level or job??I know many don’t care that much (or I would have a hard time, erps!) but doesn’t the fact that many women here have high educ. and a gd income increase their attractiveness to guys, even guys a bit younger than them? (Assuming they look good too) I don’t mean in attracting gold-digging men, I mean in attracting guys who respect her more, who love her, and who feel lucky to have found an equal.
I once listened to an episode of Tom Leykiss’ show (ugh he’s gross), he told this middle-aged caller “Men don’t care whether u own your own home, they care about what u look like with your clothes off”. But my older sis is a Cambridge-educated lawyer and when dating her now-husband, she was no conventional beauty–definitely plump with slightly-above-avg features. Her then-bf was a banker (but earned less than her; he’s not some nasty unscrupulous Wall St type though, he’s really gd person) with intelligence and dry British wit. I’m sure he could’ve gotten hotter girls, but her personality, intelligence and career success (even among Cambridge grads and among lawyers, she was exceptionally smart & successful) probably ‘compensated’ for her less-hot appearance. And he really seems to love her, they’re happily married now.
Is this really a rare exception? Or are there a significant percentage of guys who do care alot about intelligence and career of a woman? I believe there are.
5) I wouldn’t say u’re unpopular here; u merely voice less popular views. Just remember tt lots of readers here are women above 35, who I think wanna here the truth, but in a way that doesn’t make them feel lousy. These women are smart and can figure out if they’re willing to date much older guys, and whether it’ll make them happy.
6) On a slightly unrelated note, have most pple given up on soulmates?? Many of the comments here (not yours, specifically) are so..unromantic. They’re about his job, or her looks, or her age, bleah.
tamara says
7) Thanks for the summary of your beliefs on what ages men want and what ages women want in their partners. It’s appreciated, really. I read it carefully and will take it into account; the way Sherlock does, I’ll try to store it in my ‘mind palace’ haha. 🙂 I’m just saying some women here don’t wanna read it many times on this blog…
Malcolm says
I’m just pondering a little bit whether I could ever do what Evan does.
On the one hand: enough Women perennially don’t get it (about dating not being “fair”, for example) that there would never be a shortage of clients needing to be told what’s really in their own best interest.
On the other hand: having to tell them and tell them, over and over again, might be more than I myself could handle.
It’s a good thing we’re all different, right (?) Evan can do what he does . . . and I’ll do something else less crazy-making.
Vanessa Furman says
Single Mom of 2, age 31 and I am done having children of my own. I look to date older men for the reason that Evan stated. And it isn’t about settling, it’s about the quality of the lifestyle as a couple you together can provide. Settling would be giving up dreams and passions because you fell less worthy than the best.
starthrower68 says
This topic is launching so many thoughts, being that I am a single parent. I don’t think we should be quick to condemn or take umbrage with the single folks who don’t want to date someone with kids; I will admit, it used to bother me. Now, as I have had some life experience, I find that I would rather they just reject me up front. I don’t want to be put in the position of feeling like I have to choose between my kids or a significant other, or worry that he and the kids will resent each other because I couldn’t make everybody happy. That doesn’t help anyone. So to those of you being intentional in not dating someone with kids if you don’t want to be involved with kids, at least on that level, I thank you for doing that.
bbdawg says
I’m a 35 yr old woman, never married, no kids.
Sorry but whether you’re a man or a woman, 4 kids is a whole lot to deal with.
Some single dads with full custody have contacted me, and I have zero interest with men with serious parental responsibilities. I dislike the feeling of being the person’s implied “entertainment” away from their “real life”. I mean online dating is about picking and choosing and most people will avoid 4 kids if they can. Sorry deal with it. Anyone who dates the OP for some time will become a parental figure in some way or other. The fact that the OP assumes she is on the same boat as everyone else shows major lack of awareness on her end.
The OP should focus on meeting people who are on her kids’ social calendar (i.e. other parents in a similar situation) or whatever. Forget about online dating. 4 kids is a huge no-no for most people unless they are religious or have some other ulterior motive. Anyone who dates you is in some way “dating” your kids as well.
Focus on friendships and meeting people who are in your social circle already. That would seem like the best bet considering the circumstances.
Malcolm says
But it’s not FAIR (!)
bbdawg says
I mean…from my experience I see these men who contact me as someone looking for a potential cook/nanny/maid in addition to sex. I mean what else do you do with someone who has FOUR kids? The OP can’t travel, can’t sleep over, can’t have a weekend for herself. When you are around kids, especially little ones, they demand attention 24/7.
Men who have multiple kids have it better than women because they don’t usually live with the kids, but seriously…most men hesitate when they consider “commitment” right away, if a woman has 4 kids it means commitment x 4. Because anyone who is half-decent knows that if you get together with someone who has kids, chances are the kids will also be heartbroken if things don’t work out.
I wish people with kids focused ONLY in people who already had kids, this way they would have a lot in common to begin with. It’s a whole lot to ask of a single person to become a potential step-parent to 4 kids. Money would help – if the mother or father are *very* wealthy, the child rearing might be alleviated somehow (multiple nannies and baby sitters). But no matter how much money you make, this isn’t an attractive proposition to most people.
RustyLH says
You could still go out on a date with a single man, but be very up front about your kids. Find out how he feels about it. What you are looking for si a positive reaction. Maybe the guy grew up in a huge family like my dad did, and maybe he thinks it would be great to have 4 kids running around.
Ask what the man does for fun most days. Ask what he would like to do for fun that he isn’t doing now. Again, you would be looking for signs that his life is compatible with kids being around, or that he wants it to be. In short, if he says he does all kinds f things that kids couldn’t possibly do, like rock/mountain climbing, scuba diving, sky diving, mountain biking, playing poker, etc…then you have to wonder how he would fit kids into what he likes or wants to do. I think this is a great way to look for compatibility. After all, it is his free time that the kids will impact. Not his sleep (not drastically), and not his work. It is his free time that will be impacted. Expensive hobbies might also clash since he will likely have less cash…remember one movie date is now almost 3 times as expensive as it would be with a childless woman.
RustyLH says
It suddenly occurred to me that there are many men out there who want equal time with their children. If women would accept less child support while allowing the custody agreement to give him equal time with the children, it would solve most of women’s problems in this area. They would have more time for themselves, and more time to give to a potential partner, and at the same time, more men would be in the same boat and so would totally understand the situation and in fact likely would want the same thing from a woman.
Odds of this happening? Pretty close to zero.
NASHWC says
Accept less money? Give him equal time with the children? In this ‘men are disposable’ culture, men are regularly labeled misogynist, sexist and/or ‘anti-feminist’ for thinking such hateful things … 🙂
Julia says
Yes, welcome to Gen X and Millenials who are already doing this. Its pretty regular for 50/50 custody and no child support among the most liberal single parents. Don’t listen to the other guy, its highly feminist for children to spend half their time with their father and for parents to split the costs of raising children.
Henriette says
I don’t believe this is true only of liberals or feminists, either. I have friends, former couples who are conservatives, who also choose this arrangement. They believe it’s best for children to spend lots of time with their father and to see their mother standing on her own feet, financially (and otherwise). It’s my sincere hope that this becomes increasingly common in the future amongst splitting couples of every political stripe
Julia says
I didn’t mean to say conservatives do not do this. I actually don’t really know any conservative couples, let alone divorced ones with kids. I am just sick of reading that feminism means women taking children from men and suing them for child support. More couple are taking on equal roles as co-parents if they divorce. That is progress in society, its good for the children and its very feminist.
Pat says
There are an awful lot of men out there that don’t care about their children. Most of the men who do, don’t get divorced so it’s a non-issue. Which is why women get the heap of the burden taking care of the children AND they don’t get a penny out of their dead-beat exes. So please spare us the MRA vitriol.
JennLee says
I would have no sympathy for a an who is a dead beat, but spare us your vitriol because we women are more likely to be a dead beat parent if we are ordered to pay support, and far less likely to go to jail for it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/08/09/moms-can-be-deadbeats-too/
I volunteer for a charity that serves the homeless. 6 out of 7 are men. When we talk to people who give donations, they often assume that just as many, if not more women are homeless, and they have sympathy for women who are homeless. Many could care less about the men who are homeless. We also get far more women’s clothes donated than we do for men, even though the need for clothing for men is desperate. Part of that is because we poor downtrodden women buy many more clothes, and then donate them well before they are worn out. Men, those greedy bastards, tend to spend far less on clothes and keep what they have until it is worn out, or completely out of style.
I met the kindest old man through this charity. He had a business carving roses out of wood. He was supporting himself until the economy went to the pits. Then nobody wanted to spend a lot of money on hand carved roses. People tightened their belts. So he ended up homeless. Then his tools were stolen. We got him a job interview, but all of his belongings are in a duffel bag, and when he showed up, the interviewer saw the bag and asked if he was homeless. The old guy told us that he could see the interviewers attitude change, and of course he did not get the job. He’s never stoned, never smells of alcohol, never smokes, and is never rude to anyone. I feel sorry for him. We also meet a lot of guys in their 20s through 50s who became homeless when the housing bubble burst. Their stories of just how hard it is to get off the streets is heartbreaking. Like the older gentleman, who said that he has to take his duffel bag with him to job interviews because if he doesn’t it will be stolen. But taking it with him screams that he is homeless.
We deal with all types of people. Some are good people and some are not. I can say this however, far more of the men we deal with are kind and patient people. Only a few of the women have proven to be as kind and patient. The women are far more likely to have an entitlement mentality and act rude when they don’t get things their way. The men tend to be much much nicer when we tell them that we can’t do something for them, or can’t meet one of their needs.
Volunteering there has helped me start to look at people more as individuals. I’ve learned to stop believing old, outdated stereotypes
One last thing…you are way off base about men not caring about their kids unless they aren’t divorced. Try talking to some men. Prove to them that they can feel safe confiding their hopes and fears. Most men I know who are divorced, simply feel the system doesn’t care about them as fathers, except where child support is concerned. Then it cares a lot.
I watched a Doctor Phil where a man and his wife were both high earners. He had a reasonable visitation schedule. Why didn’t he get 50% of the custody? Anyway, she then quit her job and moved a long distance away, and took a lower paying job. The father missed his child so he also moved to where she was now living so that he could be near his child. He could not find employment making the same amount. He found a job making much lower. It was acknowledged that there was less opportunity, plus since the move was from California to North Carolina, there was no way he would make the same. Court refused to modify his support payments. Really?
Anyway, look outside of your own victim mentality and meet and get to know men. They aren’t the bogeymen some of you want to claim they are. Some are creeps, yes, but so are just as many women.
Selena says
Beard or no beard Rusty, you still look like a middle aged guy between 45-55. You live in Ohio right? So do I. Maybe I’ve seen you? More likely I’ve just seen so many men who resemble you. Haven’t you seen them? They’re everywhere. 🙂
RustyLH says
Well, that’s your opinion, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. It has zero bearing on me, my self esteem, or direction in life. I also put more stock in the women who wanted to date me and then found out I was older than what they were looking for and so politely backed out. It is not uncommon in such cases for them to ask to see proof of my age.
And as I said, after that I shaved it off. Just after that, I met a 19 year old girl in a class in college. Our room was changed last minute to an open room which was bigger, so there were many open seats. I selected a an area by myself on the left side of the room. The hottest girl in the class, a surfer girl, was sitting on the right side of the classroom, sitting as it turns out, beside a guy who went to her high school. The very next class she was sitting right beside me, with the guy sitting on the opposite side. I later learned that it was her decision to move and she asked the other guy to move with her…to make it not look so obvious when she sat right beside me at my table. We ended up studying together a lot in the math lab, and going to lunch together at the food court or someplace off campus. After the final exam, truths came out. For one, oddly, my age never came up, though I had learned she was 19 by hearing her tell one of the other guys in the class. She got a lot of attention from most of the guys in the class. The lone exception being the 30+ year old married guy who was also very overweight. Anyway, she didn’t actually ask my age. Me, her and 3 other young guys were at the food court and one of them asked me. When I said my age, they all thought I was telling a fib. The girl asked to see my DL. After seeing it, she said, “well I guess that explains it.” I said, “Explains what?” She said, “Why you never asked me out.” I was a bit shocked, not knowing where this was going or why she thought I would ask her out, but she continued saying, “That was the reason I sat beside you and studied with you…I thought it would be fun to go out with a hot older guy for a while, before I leave.” I will admit to being a bit stunned. I am sure my face was only slightly less incredulous than the three young guys. I admitted that I thought she was sitting next to me because it was apparent the first night that I had a better grasp of the material. I misjudged her motives, thinking it was all about getting an A, and that this was why she sat by me, and flirted. I did finish top of the class. So…yes we did have an awesome time until she left, transferring to a bigger school a few hundred miles away. She did ask me one night why I never caught on to the hints and never asked her out. I simply said, “I thought you just wanted help getting an A, and besides, I didn’t want to be the creepy older guy, hitting on the hottest girl in the class.” She had a great laugh at that one, and did a lot of light hearted teasing. And this is usually how it goes, or something like it. As I said, it is usually the younger woman who is the aggressor, at least to a point.
The point of this is that I know many people don’t think I look my age. I really don’t even care about that. I do like the fact that I do seem to get far more attention from younger women than the vast majority of men I know. However, I do prefer meat and potatoes to candy. In short, I would like a girl who is as straight forward as she was…as light hearted as she was…as great at complimenting a guy as she was…moderately good looking…all wrapped up in a woman somewhere near 38 to 45 or so…the numbers not set in stone so could be outside of those numbers but preferably on the older side, not younger. I do prefer somebody close to my age, just not exactly my age or older. My preference.
I wish more women in their 30s and 40s would read and actually understand what I have read in EMK’s writings. It really amazes me how many women, especially women in my target range don’t seem to understand what motivates a man to be with them. They ration out praise, or affection thinking, “OH, I can’t let him get a big head…got to keep him grounded,” which is the total opposite of what we are looking for. I think others just have standards so high no man can meet them, so of course she can’t treat him like he wants/needs to be treated because it will feel fake to her. And finally, there are those who seem to be so afraid of being run over by a Misogynist that they become a Misandrist. They want to simply be appreciated for who they are, don’t try to change them, but then want to remake a guy into what they want, mostly through being passive aggressive, or just downright insulting. #doublestandard. I expected as much, but the comments on my picture point to that. They aren’t learning. I wouldn’t say anything negative to a woman who posted her picture. Karmic posted hers, and she is a good looking woman, but even if she weren’t, i would not have said anything negative. I at least understand that it’s simply not the way to conduct yourself. But them? Oh boy, they have to exercise that need to put the man in check. It doesn’t bother me, probably because of my life experience to this point. But as I said, I expected it. It is a festering sore in most women that make them lash out in nasty ways to men, even when not warranted, such as when I posted my experience as a leader in the Navy, and somebody felt the need to denigrate it. If they do it here, I am sure they do it in real life…maybe without knowing they do it. Maybe their dating problems have less to do with their age, or job title, and more to do with how they treat men. Their default attitude toward men that rears it’s ugly head at the slightest provocation.
SparklingEmerald says
Rusty @ 3.1 – I was the one who made the denigrating remark, and I apologized to you for that. I am sorry that you did not see my apology. Here it is, please read and accept.
https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/the-blind-spot-in-rori-rayes-circular-dating/comment-page-10/#comment-1835178
SE
sandra says
Rusty,
First, I think you look good for your age. I would not have guessed 10-15 yrs younger , but good regardless. Great skin and very fit. However, younger people ( teens and 20`s especially) are not the best judges of age. They are often shocked that a middle-aged person looks youthful, and would expect a 49 yr old to look more heavier, tired, worn, and just older. Ask a woman in her 60s or older and she will guess your age much closer to what it is and are often spot on.
But I am curious, I know your preferred age range for a woman normal , but what would be so terrible if you met a woman who had most or all of what you are looking for but was , say, a very attractive 48? What terrible thing would happen? Just curious.
RustyLH says
My age range is a preference and is not set in stone, for the most part. If she is 48, she can still win me over. But everyone has a cut off. Often it is just mental and I suppose, a need to draw the line somewhere, because let’s look at it logically. If you are willing to date a man 5 years older…is one more year that big of a difference? OK, so if 6 years older is OK, is7 really hat much different? And if 7 is then OK, what is so wrong with 8? And if 8 is not acceptable, 9 really isn’t that much different, and 10 isn’t any different than 9, and heck, if 10 is OK, 11 could be the difference of just one month if the guy 10 years older was actually 10 years and 11 months older. And we could go on with this until we are at an absurd age difference like 30 or 40 years. So everyone choose a cutoff age. Most guys will either want the woman to for certain be a few years younger, just one year younger minimum, same age or younger, or a year or three older maximum. And in almost every case, it is total package that we are looking for, and to us, that means looks and personality. So the math of that simply means that the older woman would need a better personality to compete with the younger women we know.
In all of that, I can only speak for myself, because what each man is looking for is different. Some men don’t like super affectionate women, but for me it is a requirement. For me, she needs to want to touch and be touched affectionately, so much that it is like second nature to her. Other than that there are some things that are deal breakers also. Like, she has to be kind, patient, respectful, low drama, not a gossiper, faithful, in decent shape, relatively pretty, not selfish, not a drug addict, not and alcoholic, a non smoker, etc…
I don’t care if she is 5’1″ or 5’11”. The Brazilian 27 year old model just told me yesterday that she is 5’11”. She was really worried that it would matter to me, so she was very worried about how tall I was and was happy that I am an inch taller. The only number that bothers me is the 27. Her weight number is fine (and I don’t even know it but can see she is fine in her pictures and on skype), and her 1 child is fine. I do wish she had a minimum or 10 more years on her, and it would even be preferable if she had 20 more years. In short, 37 would be best, 47 2nd best, and 27 is the worst of the three options. All of that said, no matter what the age…if I chose to get into a relationship with a woman, I stop worrying about the age. In other words, if me and this 27 year old end up in a relationship, at that point I stop worrying about it. I stop wishing she were older. Same if she were 47. If I chose her at 47, I wouldn’t sit around wishing she were 37.
CaliforniaGirl says
When I was dating, I went out with few guys who had kids in shared custody. They didn’t live with them full time, but they had them on the weekends or every Friday night or Sunday night and so on. They couldn’t be spontaneous, they couldn’t attend with me events or see me on those days they had children, I always felt like number two. One guy told me that the most important thing in his life is his son. I get it, but just didn’t work for me. So, after that I stopped even considering men with children. I have many girlfriends who got divorced around 35 and all of them without children (including me) are already married or in serious relationships. Those with children, well, had some short-term flings but nothing serious. I live in LA, so the location perhaps matters, there are a lot good looking single childless women around here.
still-looking says
OP – don’t give up hope. I dated a lady your age with 3 young children. After a few dates I realized that I wouldn’t be able to cope with young kids. We kept in touch and she kept me updated on her dating life. After a few months she found a wonderful man who wanted a house full of kids and she is now married.
Another lady became a very close friend. She has a very severely handicapped child. Dating was very rough for her because every man would drift away after a few dates. She finally met a wonderful man and is now happily married.
I would recommend that you have a couple of guy friends review your profile. You complain that all the guys want sex, and there is no disputing that fact, but you can tailor your profile to ward off the guys who are only seeking sex.
The bad news is many guys are just looking for something casual. The good news is there are some decent men who are very family oriented. You just need to find them.
Lola2 says
Unfortunately, life ain’t fair. Once you have kids, your primary responsibility is not your own happiness / fulfillment /satisfaction. It’s your kids’ welfare. Deal with it. Most likely, this will mean your dating pool will be different. Sometimes the experience will be brutal. I’ve met guys online who told me in plain English that they would LOVE to have a “relationship” (read: short term NSA one) with me but they don’t want “anything serious” because of the kids. I get it, and thank you for an honest warning.
For anyone with the kids, dating is not all roses. And should the relationship prosper, the step-parenting is often no picnic either (“hers” vs “his” kids, moody teenagers, custody battles, jealousy, resentments, you name it.)
Do I advocate the OP to forget serious dating/LTR for now? Might not be a bad idea, with the 4 kids that she has. Might be a good idea to actually devote her time to raising the kids – and revisit the possibility of serious dating when the kids are a bit older. Sorry if I’m killing the “knight in the shining armor” fantasy for all the divorced women out there.
Princess1012 says
That’s my story except I hold on to the cookie and try to see if the guy is a fit. Most times they get tired of waiting and leave. I’m a single mother of 3 children; 14, 11 and 8. I’m 41 and I’ve been single since I was 31. Wasted the last five years on an off an on relationship with a man that didn’t appreciate me but treated me like I should be grateful to have him in my life until I found out he was seeing other women. I left him for good and he acted “surprised” and certain that i would find my way back to him. Not going to happen. Id rather be single and sane than to be in a “relationship” and crazy.
Like the writer. I’m very attractive, I exercise regularly. I don’t look my age and have an awesome career. I really don’t have the baby sitting issues because my son is 14 and can watch the others if I need to go out on a date. I also have a live in if I need to take over night trips. Still nothing… I don’t want to settle. I’ve even tried dating outliers just so I don’t limit myself. After this last 5 week thing I had with a man I thought was perfect for me. He decided to pursue others since he didn’t feel I was interested in him because I guess we hadn’t had sex in the 5 weeks we hung out. I think I’m throwing in the towel. It’s been 10 yrs since my divorce and I have NEVER had a relationship. I mean a real one. Just dates… Then they want sex. I’m surprised that this guy hung in there this long. I was getting to the point where I was starting to trust him. Sigh…
RustyLH says
like I should be grateful to have him in my life
You should feel grateful to have him in your life…bu at the same time, he should have felt the same way. That is what you want…to have a man that feels grateful to have you in his life, but you also feel that for him. The problem here is that it was one sided. That’s not good and you are right to turn away from him forever. He’s not a good man.
You said you don’t want to settle, but the truth is, except for the top 1%, we all settle. I would say that if your personality is good, a childless you would be close to my perfect woman. But you have 3 kids, and one is going to be there for at least the next 10 years. So I…or most any man, would have to “settle” if we had a relationship. But a good man won’t focus on that. A good man if he chooses to “settle” for you, will simply make the choice that he wants to be with you and will then get his mind right regarding the kids. But it would be up to you to make sure he never regrets it…if he is a good man. And by that, I mean to always show him that you do feel lucky to have him in your life. Treat him like a king, but also demand to be treated like a queen.
But now the question is, if he forgoes a childless version of you, and “settles” for you…what are you willing to settle for? And trust me, you do have to settle at some point. But what is a need and what is a want? I would say a list would look something like this.
Need (these are deal breakers)
Loyal
Faithful
Kind
Not Selfish
Fair
Respectful
Loving
Affectionate
Proud to be seen with you, and likes your company
Have a job or be in school preparing for next career
Not a drug user
Not a smoker
Not an alcoholic
Not abusive (verbally or physically)
Kind and loving to your kids. (Discipline should never be his job. It’s your job and your job alone, though you should always listen to his advice in private. Too much risk of the kids resenting him if he ends up becoming the person who handles discipline, even if it is shared with you.)
Always stands with you in any serious debate or argument. (He should never side against you, nor should you ever side against him.)
Has good hygiene
Decent health
Doesn’t put up with your BS and demands these same qualities from you.
Want (these are NOT deal breakers)
Good looking
Tall
Great hair
Great teeth
Great body
Athletic
Great Job
College degree
Lot’s of money
Owns own home
Acts confident (there are guys who have every reason to be confident, but they struck out with a few women, lost their confidence, and it became a vicious cycle. Finding success with a good woman may cause him to become confident again. Don’t go on first impressions. See if he’ll come out of his shell.)
Has a cool car
You family and friends approve, and or, love him to pieces. (It’s fine to want them to accept him, but what we are talking about is any word from them that you are “settling” that you could have done better. Maybe he’s the least attractive man you’ve ever dated/married, or maybe he is the first without a college degree, or maybe has the worst financial situation. The fact is, you didn’t settle. If this is the man you are with, he’s the best man you can get. You didn’t settle. And, if he is a good man, he deserves a wife/girlfriend that stands up for him, that lets others know right away that talk like that won’t be tolerated by you. You should point out that you didn’t settle and then explain to them the great qualities that he does have. Then explain that, for instance, you will take a good man with this list of great qualities over a good looking man with a fancy degree and a fat wallet, but no sense of loyalty, etc… Explain to them that the guys with the qualities they are bemoaning, always came with deal breaker qualities and thus are losers and you are done dating/marrying losers. If he is a good man, you should be making sure that they acknowledge that, and then point out that this makes him top shelf. In other words, you didn’t settle. You got one of the good guys.)
Frida says
“It’s not you they don’t want; it’s your lifestyle.”
Couldn’t have said it better.
Perhaps, just for now you can focus on what you do have-your Four beautiful children. Those years go by fast.
I say- Date, have fun, keep it light, and your expectations low. Take care of yourself so when you do meet somebody who wants what you want( and wants it with you) YOU will be fabulously ready.
zingle says
Some men can’t have children.
When I was young – early twenties, my boyfriend who was 28 at the time got testicular cancer and had chemotherapy which meant he could no longer have kids.
He recently got in touch with me to say hello and thanks for my support during that time. He’s now living with a woman who has 4 children of her own.
Anyway my point is that some men might be open to women who already have young children because they can’t have children of their own but would like to be a parent.
Lark says
Um I’m no personal love expert but it sounds to me that your asking a little more than what you already have it sounds to me that you need a different relationship, I don’t think highly of people that talk so good about them self, but maybe if you just wait and love will bump into I’m still waiting.
Charlotte Roberts says
I have a bit of a different perspective. If someone really loves you and has the capacity to really love you-the kids shouldn’t matter, in fact it should be an incentive. If a guy is looking for convenience-ie someone who doesn’t have kids so that he can have more “attention” I don’t want them anyway. How would THEY feel if they got married had a family, their wife god forbid died and now they are 33-with 3 kids trying to find someone and can’t bc all the women want someone with more time. To me, that is a very selfish way of looking for a partner anyway. Especially if you are willing to sleep with someone with no intention of anything else-don’t do that! Just leave single parents alone otherwise you are playing with someone’s emotions and leading them on. I would rather find a man who loves me for me with the kids and also has a life so that I am not required to give him 24/7 attention. The time we do get to spend together will be special. I am also willing to have more kids so ideally this guy I am searching for wants a kid or two.
RustyLH says
Especially if you are willing to sleep with someone with no intention of anything else-don’t do that! Just leave single parents alone otherwise you are playing with someone’s emotions and leading them on.
I agree 100% But you and I both know that so long as women are willing to have sex without any sort of serious commitment, many men will continue to take advantage of that. But you should talk to Karmic Equation about how encouraging women to wait to have sex is somehow a patriarchal scheme to subjugate women.
If someone really loves you and has the capacity to really love you-the kids shouldn’t matter, in fact it should be an incentive. If a guy is looking for convenience-ie someone who doesn’t have kids so that he can have more “attention” I don’t want them anyway.
I am not sure how her having kids is an incentive for a man. There is no incentive. If he marries her, it is because he loves her. There is no incentive to love her more because she has kids. He may or may not be able to properly bond with the children. Much of that will also have to do with the children. Not all children are sweet and adorable, though most mothers think their children are great, even if everybody else thinks they are spoiled brats. Think about it. Every horrible kid you knew in school, and every horrible person you meet in this world, usually has or had a mother how adored them and thought they were great.
There is only one kind of man for whom her having kids would be an incentive and that is a man who cannot biologically have kids of his own.
Widow says
If you like kids try widowed or divorced men with kids. They know what it’s like. I’m in your shoes, with little kid, widowed.
RustyLH says
@Tamara
“You’re getting older, u think many other guys will want u?”
Again, I want to note that I would never do that. While I am not very popular here, I can deal with that because I know that it all involves the fact that I speak my mind, but what I say is honest and not meant to tear anyone down.
I think I am also misunderstood, which is my fault. I have not explained myself very well. While I do have a problem with some women in this country, I also have a problem with a lot of me. Why should women prefer slightly older men? Because we men really are scum. We do prefer younger women. Women want to believe that they are cherished, that the man they are with is very very happy he is with her, with no regrets. She does not want him lusting after other women because he is unhappy with her, or feels he can do better. That is going to be far more likely if he is slightly older, and by that I do mean a few years older to maybe 10 to 12. Also, as stated, men are scum and thus, you aren’t safer marrying younger man, it is more likely to happen. When your age does become a issue to him, he is far more likely to be young enough to still be attractive to women his age and younger. He may also have solved the issues that made him less attractive to women his age and younger. The numbers I dug up because Evan challenged the first set, showed that according to the census, women in their 20’s and 30’s do have their choice of men because men outnumber them in this area. However, in the 40’s and above, it switches. In addition, men in their 40’s also add to the numbers that younger women can choose from. Men speak in code when talking about older women. For instance, “Older women know what they want.” Translation, women my age and younger are rejecting me…they don’t want me. This can even be very good looking men who are arrogant, unfaithful, or have some other baggage that they don’t want to deal with. So when they are being rejected, they turn to older women. May also see women as an untapped resource for money. Women are not a man’s equal here, because men are much more likely to be OK with that attitude. Women are very unlikely to be OK with being a sugar-momma. This is why the male CEO has no problem marrying an unaccomplished woman, while lightening is more likely to strike the female CEO than it is for her to marry an unaccomplished man. In short, a woman is not a man’s equal when it comes to accepting the notion of being the financial head of household. Especially when it is an extreme difference. A woman with a masters degree earning 100K marrying a man with a Bachelor’s degree earning 65K…sure. A woman with a Ph.D degree earning 175K marrying a man with no degree earning 30K…fugetaboutit. But a man would do that. I would also say that a woman with a Bachelor’s earning 70K is not likely to be happy if her husband, also with a Bachelor’s decides he wants to stay home and raise the kids. Men are far more likely to be OK with the woman wanting to do this, on a long term basis.
Do I think that I will change minds? No more than women constantly pointing out that they and their friends are creeped out by older men. So no, I don’t think I will change minds. However, I do think that down the road, when they see that the men in her target range are not responding the way she wants, she might change her own mind, and broaden her search criteria.
I see a lot of crap written that could be said to be hurtful to men, if we take it personally. Like it or not, all older men are not creepy. In the same way, not all older women are creepy. Are 40+ men a good choice for fathering a baby? No. Are 40+ women a good choice for having a baby with? No. Besides, what are these crazy people thinking? Stop being selfish…think of the kids you bring into this world will face the likelihood of not having a parent around for the majority of their life. Even while they are around, they aren’t as likely to be young enough to have fun with. Who’s more suited to go out and play some sandlot football with fathers and sons? A 35 year old guy, or a 55 year old guy? This example looking at the men having sons at 20 and 40 respectively. Also, think the kids might like to have grandparents around to experience, and have that for their children, and have them at a young enough age to enjoy? My feeling is that it is selfish to start having kids in your 40’s and 50’s…both men and women.
RustyLH says
Above are two 30 question quizzes. You take the one for wives, and he takes the one for husbands. The idea here is that you can break down the way in which people express/receive love, and typically, the way you prefer to receive love is also the way you are most comfortable expressing love. They are called the 5 love languages, and they are:
Physical Touch
Gifts
Quality Time
Acts of Service
Words of Affirmation
On these quizzes, every love language is pitted against the other 4. You have to choose. It may say something like, (a) I like it when mu husband hugs me. (b) I like it when my husband compliments me.
So you have to choose one or the other. One may be a clear preference and you may feel that you like both equally. So in that case, what you really want to do on every question is imagine that the one you choose, you will get for the rest of your life, and the one that you do not choose you will never get again. When you do that, one will likely reveal itself to be more important to you.
These are not secret tests. You can tell your husband that this is simply a way to learn more about each other and can be fun. Tell him about the instructions I gave. Tell him it is important, because, for instance, if he prefers gifts over hugs, but he answers hugs, then he should be surprised when you rarely give him gifts but give him a lot of hugs. What you might find is that both of you feel, or have felt that you give love but don’t receive it in return. This was the case between me and my ex. My primary love language is Physical Touch, and Gifts last while hers was gifts first and physical touch last. So we both felt we were trapped in a cold marriage.
TedW says
Four kids? Do you realize how expensive raising them would be? You ladies expect too much. It’s a lot to ask.
Julia says
Yes because she had 4 kids and got divorced with the express purpose of letting some poor schlub foot the bill for her kids. And all women have 4 kids, which is why we expect so much.
Jonathan says
I’m a single father of one, I’ve been raising my daughter alone since she was 3 and she is now 9. Evan is spot on. I am 41 and in the same spot as the original poster. Although 4 children may seem overwhelming at first, I would certainly consider a relationship with a mother because of her personality and how we get along. I love fatherhood and have long realized it’s hard to find someone that understands what it’s like to be a single custodial parent.
AlHeart81 says
I don’t think the woman needs to settle for an older man. She simply needs to find someone who understands where she is coming from. Not all older men are mature. Not all men her age are immature. But 4 kids is a lot to deal with and I’m not sure even I would want to take that on. However, they shouldn’t use her for sex. Men seem to forget how much they dislike being used for their money but do turn around and use women for sex.
Alot of older men are users just as much as men your own age. Alot of men in general today are immature and selfish, not willing to develop relationship skills that would further their relationships with women. (Hence the reason Evan caters to women and not men. Women are interested in working on these aspects of their lives, men aren’t.) I suspect it has something to do with Peter Pan culture, where men don’t want to mature, develop their relationships with women so much as look at porn and play video games while hoping to maintain women’s respect in them through some magical fantasy. But there are good men out there. There are just more weeds then flowers. Doesn’t mean a woman can’t find a good man around her own age.
And and Rusty? A lot of older men are creepy. Which is why they draw those feelings out in younger women. Being hit on by older men is about the least flattering thing that can happen. Men may want younger women, and that may be your reality. But another reality exists too. The reality where women don’t want to have to be forced to settle for older men. Women want to experience life with their partner. They want a true partner. Not a father figure that she’s going to have to play nursemaid to in their golden years.
BeltonBelle says
Here’s a perspective from a woman with no kids that dated a single father. Before I start, I’m now married at 30 and my husband doesn’t have kids from a previous either. The spark initially occurred because of just that: we had no children. With that said, I’m gonna share a perspective on this. Before meeting my husband, I dated a single father for almost 3 years. I loved his kids like they were mine, but when the relationship ended (he went back to his kid’s mom), it was a huge mental and emotional heartbreak. Not because of him. It was because I grew attached to his kids. The same applied to my husband. Before me, he was with a single mom for 5 years (3 kids, 3 different men). It was identical to my situation, he grew attached to her children. The tricky part is when the break up occurs. We aren’t those kids biological parent. We can’t demand to see them. And all the money and time invested in this already packaged family we will never get back. It’s frustrating to say the least. Another factor in this, and single mom’s are very guilty of this, is you love saying “my kids comes first”. Ok. That’s great. They should. But you can’t ask that a man stay on the sidelines until you get free time. There is a woman out there without children that can devote the time to build a relationship, whereas, well, you dont. Another issue is more children. The woman in this post already has 4 kids under 9? What if the man that dates her wants a child of his own? That’s not fair to him whatsoever. It seems that single mom’s are under This impression that someone needs to accept their children, no matter what. No we dont. We can stay single a little longer until someone comes along that doesn’t have a child and get put the time in to build a relationship. It sucks to say that, but it’s true. I have a friend that’s in her 40’s, two failed marriages and 2 kids. She keeps saying she’s just looking for love. But the truth is, some people don’t want certain things already prepackaged, such as a family. The moment a man hears she has two teenagers, they back off and it hurts her, but she doesn’t see it from the other end of the table. That’s a hell of a commitment, and we as the childless are honest about that up front. I can’t tell you how many fathers did everything in their power to convince me that their kids won’t be a problem. Believe that if you want to. But I’m not gonna rob myself of the opportunity to be a mother because he didn’t want anymore kids because he already had 3 of his own. I’m not their mom. It is what it is, and I’m sorry if it sounds offensive. But the reality is there are so many single people that want drama free relationships that can blossom into something great. And sometimes drama free means no kids.
mcurious says
AMEN!!! this is why I refuse to date men with kids. Not just b/c the kids come first, but there’s always a woman in his life more important than you, too: the mother of his kids. I feel like a lot of great, childless men/women sucked into the drama of a single parent and frankly, a bit resentful. Focus up on your kids. Go find other single parents like you who get it. Why you think any man who has it all going on and no kids and is young and hot is gonna wanna limit his options this severely is beyond me.
Singledatingmom says
Hi Cristina. This is my first post on this blog and I felt compelled to post because we are very similar. I am 35 (almost 36) and a single mom of 3 girls ages 9 and under. I have been divorced for 3.5 years. Evan’s advice is spot on. Like you, I have an excellent body, I am attractive, I am financially independent, my kids’ dad is in the picture. I have no desire to stop dating or be single and I resent posters who imply that by dating, I somehow am not putting my kids first. No way! I want stability and a romantic life and eventually to hopefully marry again, nothing wrong with that!
Anyway, I have dated the gamut, but have focused on men 40+. I dated a man who was single, never married for 2 years and while he was ok with dating me, he wanted a kid of his own and didn’t seem to grasp what it was like to have kids. He was very self-centered. I have discovered that dating is like marketing. You have to find your market and then focus on finding the right people in that market.
As an attractive woman in her 30s with kids, my market is very different from the market of a woman in her mid-30s without kids – even a woman who makes less money than me and is less attractive. Simply put, a 38 year old man with no kids is going to date a 32 year old woman (for example) with no kids and will prefer one who is less attractive than I am. Also, my market is different from a hot 35 year old with 1 kid. A 38 year old may be able to “overlook” the fact that said 35 year old has 1 kid if she happens to be hot and independant. 3 kids scares a lot of men away.
So, what is my market? Men in their 40s who have kids too. I am attractive and I have zeroed in on men who are 7s and 8s in physical attractiveness, not 9s or 10s who make a lot of money. A 7 or 8 with kids will “get” me and are still attractive so I don’t feel like I am settling. THeir kids will be similarly aged so we will be going through the same things. Like me, they juggle custody schedules. In short, they GET parenthood. I choose the guys who also have careers, so I won’t compromise on the intellectual stuff. But I avoid the guys that seem to be at the true pinnacle – the gorgeous guy who looks like a movie star who also happens to be a doctor or a lawyer. Those guys are at the pinnacle and they tend to want arm candy and sex. BUt find a guy who is good looking enough with a solid career (also independent) and some responsibilities (kids of his own) and you will find that he is more likely to want the same things as you and more likely to see beyond the “Mt. Everest” of 4 kids. Kids are only “Mt. Everest” if you are marketing to the wrong population.
Jay says
I think Cristina is living in an unrealistic fantasyland since she is a screenwriter of Romantic Comedies, I think she has unrealistic expectations. First off, does she want to get married again in a long-term relationship? Second, since she has 4 kids already, does she want more kids? Most men care about their own finances, and don’t want to financially take care of 4 non-biological children. If she re-marries I’m assuming the guy will want 2 more kids of his own? It really sucks for her dating life, but realistically Men want sex, and they don’t want to end up babysitting 4 kids who are not theirs. If she wants a long-term relationship with a guy, she has to figure out exactly what that means and how much free-time she actually has to devote to this boyfriend. I agree that her chances of finding a boyfriend improve if she dates other single dads who are not scared of kids.
bleh says
That sounds awesome…Id be happy to be a non-father, non-provider, friend, companion and whatever else you want me to be…hehe
Joe says
This is a bunch of bs. There are plenty of men that i know not interested in getting simply laid as their main motivation, myself included. You are generalizing and i personally take offense. Perhaps u are a bad judge of character. Any good man knows if its a good fit, has chemistry then the sex will come with time and getting to know u as a person is the most fun. In my opinion the number one importance in the dating world is pyhsical attraction. U have to be in shape and handsome. Not average, not a few extra pounds, in shape. Hmmm and what do u get, a good looking self consumed, shallow, egotistical male whos only purpose is meeting his own desires regardless if u are a mom, professional, or individual. I mean thats what i boils down to today doesnt it? Our value is measured in face only. Regardless if u are intelligent, witty, kind, generious. Women would rather date, tasty and tall. So please turn that finger around and point it at urself. U date bad, i know, the ranting post. A real man wouldnt give a shit about fucking u, he’d wanna know u and ur only finding the ones who want to fuck. Goodluck.
Jessie says
stereotypes are a bitch.. Single moms should find a man in the same predicament as her, someone who’s at the point of desparity in their life where they will take whoever crosses their path so they aren’t alone, bs nonsense. The fact is men mature way later than women, so a woman of 34 really shouldn’t date a guy of 34 because most likely he still is acting like a 20 year old as they all do as doesn’t want to quite clip his wings and settle down yet, unless you find that unicorn guy who is mature at his age and isn’t totally self centered and will commit, if you do then you’re one in a million.
Dana says
well before reading this article I felt hopeful about marrying someone close to my age and now I feel like I need to start dating older men in their 40’s and I’m not attracted to men in their 40’s… so I guess dating is pointless for me as well?? Becauce I’m 34 and I’m a single mother of a little boy who is now 10. And from what I’ve been told I don’t look my age, I’ve had guys ID me because they think I’m in my mid 20’s. I have had guys want to be relationships with me, and commit but I’d also had a lot of guys who seem to only 1 thing and NOT commit. So I should give up the hope of expanding my family with more kids and a husband because NO guy in their 30’s will want me? That’s what I get from this article and all the comments. I’m usually a VERY positive person, and have always had hope and believed I would find a man who would love me and MY son and someday we could expand our family together. I guess I should give up that dream? Help me understand why your advice to this women is to date older and someone with kids. I’ve ONLY recently had guys in their 30’s start to ask me out, before it was always young guys. I would like to date someone MY age of older but not 40. I feel bad for this women, I guess because I can relate.
Evan Marc Katz says
No one said you should give up hope. You just need to understand what everyone else seem to get: your dating pool consists of men who ARE interested in you, rather than men NOT interested in you. You seem to have eliminated the possibility that there are men 34-40 who are also divorced with kids, as well as the possibility that there are men 40-45 who are attractive and look young for their age just like YOU. So instead of despairing over something I didn’t say, how about you take the more balanced view that if you want a 29-year-old guy without kids, it’s a longshot, but there are no shortage of men who would appreciate a woman like you – if you had a slightly better attitude towards them.
Dana says
Thank you for the feedback! I do have a great attitude towards the men who have been interested in me! I feel as though I may have been a little naive now after reading some of these comments though. I’m not saying men in their 40’s are not attractive, there are plenty of gorgeous men and women in their 40’s and I’m sure 50’s as well! But I don’t understand why a man has to have been divorced or also with children in order to date to me. I don’t know maybe I misunderstood your message to this women and I apologize for that…. I do find it unfortunate that love seems to be so complicated. I wouldn’t ever date a man who didn’t love children anyways regardless off their age however if me having a child puts men in their 30’s off then I guess they’re not the right person for anyways. I would love to meet someone I’m attracted to and on my level regardless of their age I just haven’t met any men in their 40’s or been approached by any.
Tom says
Dana, the reason Evan suggested you open your options to someone older, divorced and having children is because they are more understanding with the lifestyle of children and the divorce also makes them more experienced in finding who they want in a relationship and who they don’t. I am a 40 year old male, divorced with 3 children
anonymous says
Umm… Don’t get me wrong, but I think the men you met would tend to assume that Christina wasn’t loyal because she was divorced. I know, her ex may have been in the wrong, but the problem is that the first thing they will think is that she is somehow at fault … which is not necessarily true, of course.
Lisa, Colorado, USA says
Or the other, more appealing option:
how about you date the cute 34 year old that also has children and who will value and appreciate a kind, loving and intelligent woman that will be an important person in his children’s’ lives. You don’t have to settle for a man 10 years your senior to find love (so tired of that being the only option men can offer) but you might have to forego the single, bad-boy, bachelors. Your white knight might be driving an SUV. P.S. Rare is the man that tackles Everest. Rare, but he exists.
JAMES OLUWOLE B. says
This guys are unfair. But not all guys are the same. I need someone to take care of me and for me to show her my love by residing with her
Kim says
OP, there has been some sound advice here and there has been some hot air. Im 35 with one daughter. I have a decent job and I do have free time. I do not date but that is not because of lack of interest. What I have SEEN in real life is plenty of people blending families. If someone doesnt want you they will find one reason or another to reject you-weight,debt,extra wrinkle,bad social skills,hair not curly. These people you dont want to date with or without a kid. Before I had a kid, all men wanted was sex lol. Before I had a kid I was not spending all day on a date. My point is if you focus your sites on someone who understands that EVERYONE HAS BAGGAGE and that life does not always go as planned. Some/alot of people (men and women) like kids or didnt get to have any. So my message is one of hope. Do compromise and be reasonable. You should not ask more of someone else than you ask of yourself but you will find your guy.
Nathan Lee says
Your problems are completely self-caused.
Kyle says
You say you’re not desperate but this article sounds as if you are very desperate, almost to the point of giving up on men. Also, you mention not wanting to feel grateful for having a guy. There is nothing wrong with being grateful to be with someone. Nobody wants to be with someone that is not grateful. As for sex. That is how men are wired. You’re going to have to deal with the reality that sex is a very important part of what men want in a relationship. Who wants to be in a non intimate relationship?
shane says
Nobody wants a single mother. Time to face facts. No man wants a woman who’s already taken another man’s seed in her. Especially not multiple times.
Maybe some sap who’s infertile and aged well enough to settle down. But men your age aren’t looking for a single mom with one child much less multiple.
Men are sexual creatures. Unless you’re trying to find the next choir leader or pastor, time to face it. Young men with full vigor aren’t looking to cuddle up beside the fire with 4 kids they didnt make and a woman who’s already made them with someone else.
Evan Marc Katz says
What Shane means is that HE doesn’t want a single mother. There are plenty of single dads who are fine with single mothers.
Anonymous says
Problem is single moms don’t want single dads
Over40datingsinglemom says
Reading some of the replies here makes me feel sad. Evan again you are correct. SOME men don’t want single moms, NOT ALL. Yes sometimes we find out after we get close to someone because the man isn’t sure or lies. It’s part of dating. We have to keep at it ladies. Let’s NOT give up on love because we have children (in my opinion God) gifted us with. Let’s look at our pluses. We are kind, giving, loving and some men love kids.
Anonymous says
To a a single dad, it’s fine
But to a single childless man, it’s a giant red flag.
No single childless man wants another man’s “leftovers”
Maria Almudena says
I know men who were single and childless when they met the woman they fell in love with, and they went on to become excellent fathers to the child or children of that woman. A famous example is Matt Damon, but I know several others in my own circles.
You must mean, anonymous, that no selfish single childless man would consider dating a woman who has children. The word “leftovers” is very distasteful when referring to children.
rawr says
34 and kids with someone that she wasn’t willing to stay committed to, she can be a 10 in beauty and personality but to any wise man she’s a 6 at most, and that’s being generous.
Ladies take heed, and i say this because you need to hear it and understand it: wise men do not need you, valuable men do not need you, for anything. You have nothing to offer him that he can’t get elsewhere and for a lot less investment on his part. Sex is easy and cheap, his male friends understand and empathize with him better than you ever will, and his heart is not open for you to take after he’s experienced the real world for long enough.
You will get angry and proclaim not all men are bitter like you, that’s ok. rationalize all you like, but the truth always comes out. even if they’re in your most personal, private moments you will see the light and understand.
You want a loving partner? You have 2 options: the first is to settle for the “broken beta”, raped by divorce and spirit broken but still believes in “the one”, all it takes is a few kind words and he’s yours. The second is to find a quality man with potential before he reaches about 25 or so, while he still has the light of idealism in his eyes and faith in his heart. As a man ages he grows wiser, he will know he can do much much better than you, someone who will be devoted to him and his children, not your kids and your ex before him, sloppy thirds is a losers deal and anyone quality knows it. Teach your daughters to choose carefully so they don’t fuck themselves in their 30s and 40s with divorce and be forced to settle for less.
Like Evan said best you can do is a man in his 40s and up, who’s starting to see his twilight years, but everyone knows that it won’t have that loving open passion that being able to look back and see what a good life you had together has. It’s sad but women brought it on themselves and I feel.bad for you.
Sam Dog says
I will lay out the truth….most guys dont consider single mothers useful for much more than sex…I have dated close to 100 single moms…..had sex with all of them within 30 days of meeting them…..their schedules dont permit them to spend more than 6/10 hours a week with me….if u think for 1 second that im gonna commit to them, change my lifestyle for 6/10 hours a week, you are certifiable….and before you go to the default ‘ you are not finding the rite woman’ (100)…..or ‘im not like those other women?’ YOU ARE….which is the real answer to your question…the REAL reason….and you ARE desperate…and horny…and lonely.This is the real reason you feel used, cause ya give it up……this is your station in life…….what are you supposed to do ? LIVE WITH IT.
Single Parent says
A single mother would be very wise not to let the previous 2 posters anywhere near her children.
Jim says
christina is clearly in denial. at 34 with 4 kids? somebody is stroking their own ego. men a pumping and dumping you because you’re easy. i promise you, there aren’t any 20 year olds mistaking you for a girl their age. as a parent, you have a responsibility to take the ENTIRE family’s needs into consideration. that includes you, not just your children. it’s perfectly acceptable for you to not allow little jimmy to play soccer because you need more time to find him a stepdad. unless soccer mom is the schtick you want to go with to find said stepdad. little jimmy is better served by having a whole and complete family, which includes a father figure, than having his time blocked in with plenty of activities. get a fucking babysitter and make yourself available for Mr. Right. you can’t control when Mr. Right enters your life, but if he does and you aren’t available, he will leave as quickly as he entered. focus on having a bit of relationship FIRST and wait and see if the man really likes you before having sex with him. divorced now, but when dating my exwife we went out for quite some time before i even kissed her, and even longer before we had sex.
Mr. Unknown says
Cristina,
I have four kids as well and it is not the end of the world of finding a good man or women.
Just a little about myself. I’m married, but I have lost the women I love. I’m in a uncontrollable spin that has me scared. She tells me that she loves me as a person, but her will to fight for us is gone and that she needs to fight to find herself. We have been married for 9 years, and for the last 5 years I have failed to be the companion she deserves. I have done a 180 and I provide her with my full attention, but she says its to late.
Being the man who helps everybody, at any time with all difficult needs is a great thing, but in being such, I failed to be there for my wife. I have been praised by many as being a great person, in which I am, but yet I haven’t been for my wife. I mention this so you understand problems will always be there for everyone. I will most likely be getting divorced, and I pray that she finds a person who can be a companion to her and her only. I too, one day will have to face the fire squad of dating. Yes 4 kids puts me at a disadvantage, like you, but I will not lose faith that there are still good people out there.
Cristina, to you I say… Do not give up, do not stop thinking you will not a find a compatible companion. I will never say you will find him one day, because maybe you will not, but without a doubt, giving up on this will lead to more feelings of giving up.
Your a mother of four, you have survived a divorce, that in itself tells me you are a strong women who has not given up yet. Women were built to be emotionally stronger than men. Think about it, when a family is sick, who is still getting the medicine, and providing for everyone’s needs, THE WOMEN IS!! So, God did something right, he made women tougher.
Cristina, I say a again, do not give up on the chance of finding a good man, we are still out here. I will say, stick to your guns and don’t settle for the bare minimum. Be selective, because you can be. Be strong, because you are. Don’t skip a beat on life and don’t waste time thinking to much into finding a companion. If it is meant to happen it will happen on its own.
Cristina, remember to look into the mirror every morning and smile at yourself. You are a good person and I have faith you will find what you are wanting one day.
Bob says
Mr. Unknown,
A lot people who filed for divorce blame their ex’s when they don’t feel like being married at the moment. And you are not alone, a lot of ex’s fall for the lack of attention excuse card. The real problem is the filer just wasn’t all that serious about marriage in the first place and it was more of a high school romance in adult world.
Bob smith says
Christina, men (well, non-Alpha males like me anyway) aren’t interested in relationships with single moms for the same reason that those same women weren’t interested in guys like me before they had kids. I was that guy who you or your girlfriends told how sweet and thoughtful it was to ask you out before brushing me off without a second thought. Guys like me weren’t gifted with even the slightest edge in the male-female relationship department. We had to watch you, the women, pair off with Mr. $hitbag. We never seemed to have that flare or style or edge that is took to get your attention and it changed us. All we wanted was one shot. But you and your girlfriends couldn’t bring yourselves to give that shy guy a chance. And now, there’s no shortage of available single moms out there who have “grown up and now want a mature man in their lives.” Well, Christina, and I’m just speaking for myself here, I will not buy used cars (date single moms) and I will not be treated like a used car (Beta-male who gets to be the low-man on the totem pole–AGAIN– in the woman’s life) and I will not pick up where some other guy left off. Your kids won’t respect the new guy in Mom’s life but let’s be honest here, Christina, because you ultimately want a relationship, it’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that, at some point, money WILL get comingled, which means that the new guy in your life will be coughing up the dough for kids who don’t see him as their father because he isn’t their father. It’s unavoidable. I don’t want a woman who, 20 years ago when she didn’t have kids, wouldn’t go out with me, but now guys like me suddenly don’t look so bad. But women with no kids won’t give us the time of day. And please don’t say, “Your problem is your attitude.” My attitude was just fine until 20 or 30 years of failure in this department of my life finally wore me down. I’m probably going to wind up spending the rest of my life involuntarily celibate. It’s a shitty life but my bills are paid and I make the best of it. Damn, this world sucks.
A. says
A single mom with four kids will never find a man – maybe an ugly older one, yes. But no decent one wants to raise 4 kids that are not his.
Kim says
I think I’m a little shocked at your advice. It seems like you are blaming the lack of good men on the fact that she has four children and her lack of time. She needs to find a REAL man who is realstic and understanding to a mom’s schedule and be sensitive to the fact that her children will always come first. However, she also has to find the time to devote to a man and a reatioship, if that’s what she really wants. Is it easy? HELL NO!!!
I have dated for the past seven years since my divorce. I have dated 30+ and 40+ without children, with children, divorced or just single. If you ask me, men at this stage of their life who have been in relationships just was their fun are want non-committed relationships, flings, FWB, NSA. Dating has become more of a job interview. It’s very very frustrating, but I refuse to settle. I deserve better.
Tricia says
He’s absolutely right. A divorced man with a kid or two of his own will be her best bet. There are plenty of them out there.
Pablo says
Unfortunately men’s sexual strategies place women in two main catergories….One is Booty call and the other is that of potential long term mate. Now ,u are waaay past your peak beauty years, have lots of baggage in the form of kids ……so mostly rational, high quality guys will place u in the booty call category. You are competing with young 22 year old women who have no kids, u are really in no position to do anything about it. At this pooint its not about u but what men also want.Reality is harsh but this is the truth.
Mandy says
I am a single mother of two boys, I haven’t been with anyone in almost ten years and I am 35. I have gotten to the point, my kids and my marathon running is more important than being with anyone. My advice is stop looking stop trying, your children are only young once. Dating is a emotional damaging to children if you keep bringing men in and out of your life. No offense but I respect anyone who can refrain from having sex for years, men will respect you if you’re not giving your body to just anyone.
Amanda says
I am a 35 and a single mother of two boys 15 and 11, I won’t date anyone in their 40’s let alone in their 50’s, hell I have been single and haven’t had sex in 9.5 years, really don’t miss it. I don’t think she needs to find a man 10-15 years older. Really, it’s her life not yours… Now that I got that off my chest..
I know lots of people on here are saying date some OLDER, really I know lots of men that are single fathers in their 30’s, it’s not that uncommon, they are out there. As for dating men with children, well that can be hard because children might not get along together, which can cause turmoil in the relationship. I seen that happen too many times with my single parent friends.
As for the older men, some men don’t want to date someone with young children or they have older children that are grown ,and they just want to spend time with a companion. Besides we all know what happens to men when they get a certain age, lol, the little soldier is not standing up straight. LOL. More of limp and to the side. LOL.. Sorry had to say that. LOL
As for everyone saying online dating, that crap is a joke, besides you don’t know the person very well. All what I can say is that, stop looking ,love will find you when the time is right, not sure if you are religious or not, you can always ask God for guidance instead of aholes on the internet. LOL. I believe there is someone for everyone. Just be patient and the right one will come around and love you and your children. Keep your head up and the bar held high, don’t listen to the bs negative crap people post on here, most are trolls with huge bottles of lotion on their night stand. LOL
Insidious_Sid says
Another aggravating factor is child support. If I took on sweetie-pie single mom with 4 kids, and became a step-dad to them, “loco parentis” could well apply and I would owe her child support on FOUR KIDS until they are 18. This would make my financial situation go from tight to impossible and be unfair to my own biological children. I don’t think too many women would marry single fathers if they knew they could be on the hook for 18 years of child support per kid! Women never look at these things from the man’s point of view. I will date single moms and have some sort of relationship but I will never move her and her kids in. I have decided I don’t want to be the “psycholgical” parent or “social” parent or “loco parentis” or whatever they call it. I feel responsible to my children (biological) and any children in my home that I have taken into my care. But after the relationship dissolves, the onus for THEIR children should be back on the biological parents. The idea a woman can “collect” any number of men to pay child support while going from relationship to relationship is proof how broken the system is. Men, you’ve been warned. If you’re not prepared to pay the cost of being a dad – for up to 18 years, then walk away. You play with single moms, you WILL play.
lindsay says
Oh my goodness. Tamara probably isn’t reading any more, but I would say to her: Hon, the problem is that you are more together and more responsible than almost any man you will meet, and you don’t have time to be the man’s mother, too. Nor do you want to, I bet.
If dating and, I assume, remarriage are what you want, then put the word out among people you trust in your community. Make sure they understand that you are choosy and would rather be with no man than the wrong man, so they don’t need to get their panties in a wad because you said no thanks to the bum they dredged up. Drop your dating-site profiles, just forget them. And then wait. And if a man shows up interested, don’t throw yourself at him. Let him show that he’s actually up for the kind of work and maturity involved in being with a mom of four boys.
Incidentally, middle-aged divorced men don’t understand what it is to be you. If they have children, most of them either have their ex-wives doing the work of raising their children or they have a girlfriend, mom, or sister carrying part of their burden. You are really in there doing the work. You could probably fit into one not-huge building all the divorced men in American who are doing the work like you do it. And as an older woman who has dated her share of older men, don’t let the wrinkles fool you into thinking that he’s any better or wiser a person. He’s just a more wrinkly person.
Good luck –
john says
This is a poorly titled article and the intention may be misconstrued. Generalizing by saying that all man are this or that only give the impression that the individual writing this article title is short sighted. Do your homework to find the right man and look in places where man are looking for the same things you are looking for. If you find him and he is a good guy make sure you respect him. Nice guys like to be respected and also know who they are with. Good luck
john says
If you don’t like to have that much sex. Find yourself a man with Low T. Do you homework just like everyone else and you will find a man that does not like sex as much. But, like they said be careful what you wish for. Also, remember there is viagra available for woman as well Just fyi and good luck.
Damon Craven says
Finding a man who’ll see you for nothing more than a piece of ass? Yeah, good luck with that one. I’m pretty sure they’re out there but, much like you and your children, a guy needs your time and attention-2 things a guy won’t get when dealing with a single mom. Even a guy with children and life experience doesn’t want to deal with the bullshit that comes with dealing with single moms. That’s why guys either run for the hills or just in it for sex when you tell him you have children-they don’t want to deal the BS involved.
scatterbrain says
One thing most women fail to realize is that most men don’t bother expecting more than sex from women anymore. main reason: it’s all we see being offered!
helene says
I am 44 , 4 children, widow,
all these theories are great but you only need one guy….
I myself believe I am a great person with plenty to give, that includes my crazy four children and our wild household, I refuse to see it as a disadvantage I see it as an asset. That’s what I radiate with pride. Man or no man.
Chirp2000 says
This literally made me cry. I live in a small tiny town where the education level & IQ is low, so the dating pool of reasonable men is small. I am 33, been divorced 2 years, have 3 perfect kids (14, 10, 7), I have a successful career, I’m sexy as hell, smart, funny & I can’t find any single guys. I have been on 2 dates. And reading this made me realize it may not happen for awhile.
Mark says
Christina,
First things first is to confirm what you already suspect — the guys who are just into you for sex are purely distractions. For all intensive purposes, when a guy only wants sex with you because of your physical attractiveness but nothing more, this is the same as a rejection and you need to treat it as such, and filter these guys out so as to not waste your time.
Remember the difference between boys and girls…
When a boy is not what girls are looking for, he gets no dates what-so-ever — and there are plenty of boys out there who are having zero success with women! However, when a girl is not what boys are looking for, she can still get dates but it will be with guys who are not really interested in her and only want sex. The end result is the same, but the girl is misled more than the guy in the same situation, because she thinks she’s in more demand than she really is.
So you need to first fully come to acceptance that your looks will not help you in this situation. That doesn’t mean you should completely let yourself go, because you want to be pretty to the guy who finally chooses you for the right reasons, but don’t think that you’re going to win him by competing sexually with single girls.
You also need to accept why “divorced single mom with 4 kids” does not look good on your resume. The first reason is a selfish one. Males are biologically hostile to offspring that are not their own. In the wild, when one male takes the place of another, he will kill off the cubs that are not his own to assert his male dominance. It’s Darwinism at its finest. Now you say to yourself there must be some males among the human species that can rise above this primitive instinct, and there are — those with a high moral conscience that guides them to fight their own instinct.
Where do you find males who have high moral ambitions? Hint: Try church.
But even guys who are very moral, and won’t hold against you the fact that you have someone else’s kids, will be a bit worried by the fact you’ve been divorced before. Statistically speaking, Divorce #1 leads to Divorce #2. How do you convince the guy that history won’t be repeating itself? The circumstances of your first divorce actually do matter. If the first guy ran away or the divorce happened because of something completely outside of your control, that actually looks better than if you were the one who gave up on the marriage. No one likes a quitter, and moral guys take marriage vows very seriously. Their biggest fear is that you won’t. So you kind of need to have a good explanation for why when you said “for better or for worse” the first time, things didn’t end up going that way. The explanation of “let the past be in the past” won’t really cut it. At least, for me it wouldn’t. I suppose I’m a bit cynical though.
You do have selling points though. The fact that you’ve proven you can handle motherhood is actually a positive, because most guys are looking for a woman who demonstrates that she is a nurturer (so she can nurture his kids). This is something that a lot of single ladies fail miserably at demonstrating. So make sure that between your career and the time you spend dating, you still put your kids first. This is not only the moral thing to do, but it will impress the right guys if they see that you put your children’s happiness over your own happiness.
Last but not least, don’t be afraid to let your guard down and show your vulnerabilities. Being a single mom is not easy. If you cry for help, the gentlemen out there will come to your rescue, and one of them may fall in love with you.
Lisa says
If it makes you feel any better I am in my 30s with no kids and I also have no shortage of dates. But I can’t find many men that are looking for more than just sex either and the over 40 crowd is not much better. So certainly I do think that having 4 children means that a lot of men will shy away from serious relationships with you, but want to have sea with you because you are hot. Know that it is not just women with kids dealing with this. While you were marrie dating changed a lot. With online dating men now have tons of sexual options without having to go out and find them and and women in general are more open to having sex without committing. It’s a lot harder to find that man no matter who you are. Good luck!
Thereisnospoon says
At 49 with just one teen left at home who will be off to college soon… I’ve been divorced for nearly ten years and not one man would stay, even if he had his own children part time. My son is really quiet and very supportive of me trying to date. He could go with family at anytime if I needed some time alone. These men knew that and I never asked them to help raise him in any way. So, nine years of FWB or just a one night stand for human contact to feel wanted. I don’t think it really matters if you have one or twelve kids. If a man can’t handle being with someone else’s children and thinks he’s going to end up as second fiddle it will never work. The Brady Bunch man who always wanted a big family is hard to find but they do exist. My ex-husband married his mistress with young children, we have two sons and had joint custody. I personally am not sure if after I’m an empty-nester if I would want to date a full-time single Dad with young children and end up starting from scratch as a step-mom even though I would understand where he is coming from. Honestly, that is my jaded opinion from personal experience. Just never got lucky enough to meet the right man during my time as a single mom and acted like an idiot out of loneliness. The whole MILF thing is awful. We do end up hating dating and give up many times. When loneliness sets in hard, we try again for a little while. Do I want to get married again after all this time? Not really. Is sex as important now that I’m 49? Not really. Do I at least want a committed long term relationship that is stable and happy if we are both empty-nesters? Hell yes. Could we live together at this point after years of be single and just living with the kids… That might be harder because we are so set in our ways, lol. Would I love to have a big family on the holidays to spend time with? Yes! Are there single dad’s who feel the same way and have dealt with the same BS? Switch my single mom view for the single dad view as “been through the wringer” older parents and I bet it’s pretty much the same. That being said, don’t give up. Value yourself and what you are capable of, love your kids because eventually they are grown and gone. Don’t act like a MILF, ever. Walk away from that as fast as you can. Respect yourself and be graceful. You do end up regretting not just hanging in there for the right person.
Anonymous says
Well, you chose those guys, so it’s a reflection on your bad judgement. Own up to it!
Jamal says
I am a single Dad with 3 kids under 10.i will love to have a relationship with a single mom and bring our families together.
Its the same about single dads,when girls see a guy with 3 kids they turn the other way,first thing they think is he needs someone to help him with the kids,i don’t need help with the kids i have two nanys that take care of the kids and i provide good for my family,I don’t need help from anyone all i am missing is love.
CBP says
The article title is selfish and it’s written by an equally selfish, greedy and lazy woman. All men want is sex? Umm, newsflash, in return he takes care of you makes money and throws himself into the teeth of reality and raises kids and cleans and everything else under the sun. And for what? 30-minute sex sessions in the shower four times a week with you? College classes are longer than that and they make you pay for school. But for 30-minutes 3-4 times per week for free you keep his heart and love revved up and yet you’re so selfish and lazy you can’t commit to that? And what does he get? The bills. If you’re going to say, “I don’t want to tonight” then don’t say, “I do.” There is no “No” after you say, “I do”.
RealityBites says
Why I don’t date single moms let alone have a relationship with one.
(a.) I absolutely refuse to financially support or subsidize another man’s children in anyway , shape, or form
(b.) Children cause problems in a relationship because they want their parents to get back together. So the kids do things that causes their mother to get into arguments with the new boyfriend or husband
(c.) Why should I drive a used car when I can drive a new car. Single Moms are used cars.
(d.) Children are a financial liability. The average cost estimated by the department of agriculture to raise a child from birth to 18 is $225,000 per child. That’s an enormous financial burden.
(e.) If you are complaining about the father of your child, well you chose to be with him and screwed him. And that is a reflection on your own bad judgement.
(f.) By their 30’s most men are on to the games that women play in order to extract resources from him.
Single Moms? Thanks but No Thanks
Anonymous says
Same here. I avoid them like the freakin plague!
Nancy says
A few years ago at a 4th of July party when I was still single, I met a guy who looked relatively cute and who was the only guy there without a wedding ring. After being single for more than 40 years (this includes my childhood) I could scope out guys like a ninja. We stood next to each other admiring Independence Day chalk art and struck up a conversation. He asked if I had any kids and I told him yes and she with with her dad for the weekend (including the weekend part so he understood it was a parenting time arrangement). He told me his three kids, ages 2, 4 and 6 were with their mom. I said how nice and politely excused myself to use the bathroom. And to never talk to him again.
Paul Palowski says
No self respecting man age 25-40 with no kids wants to be in a relationship with a woman who already has kids. It’s like there’s a constant reminder some other man impregnated the woman you’re with; no one wants that. But it’s ok after us men have kids of our own apparently “I don’t get that one either”. Guess once their first marriage fails; most guys give up on the whole traditional thought of marriage that black culture and the public fool system have completely destroyed.
Alexandra says
No man wants to raise another man’s leftovers.
Randy says
I’m sorry to say my dear, but the men you want (men with options) are not looking for single moms with 4 kids. He’s probably heard you say something like “my kids are my world”. Translation – he will always be second fiddle. What man with options wants that? Do you want some guy with 4 kids? I doubt it.
Glenn McMann says
Here here. I’d much rather be with someone without children, allows for more flexibility. I’m 31 and I’m chubby. The hilarious part is, I’m capable of sacking a barely legal 18 year old with a single digit dress size and be practically worshipped and then there’s the single mother’s my age and over who are going to prioritize the kids over being with me.
I’ll stick with being the fat slob looking guy that’s capable of sacking a barely legal teen. No kids, major dealbreaker. If I want to go to Paris or fly to London or Vegas, I want to be able to go without having to worry about the kids.
She wants something more than sex, but her children really just kills her options. She should probably give custody of the children to their father if she really wants someone to click with her without thinking of only sex.
Now that's some bullshit alright says
Good story, bro.
Over40datingsinglemom says
Some of us are widowed. I think it’s just some men are not right for us and vice-versa.
Ted says
31 and chubby getting dates with 18 year olds? I expect you’re tall.
Over40datingsinglemom says
Yes.
Glenn McMann says
Well, she could do the intelligent thing, seeing as how she claims she’s intelligent while showing definitive proof that she’s not. She could share custody with the biological father of her children and allow 50/50 visitation and thusly get no child support from him. This would allow her a whole week to herself and any guy she’s wanting to date every other week.
She also needs to realize that you got kids? LOL nope! Should’ve chosen not to have them, but nooooo she had to not only not use protection, not use plan b, not use birth control, not use intravaginal condoms, not use abortion, not to use adoption services and not to use safe havens. She chose to get pregnant and keep the child at every step of the way.
Do I want to be around children? Nope. Do I want children? Nope. Do I want to date someone with children? Nope. If I’m dating someone and I find out they have children? Yeah, lose my number.
Louis Brooks says
I am single, 26 and have no kids. I see all these single mothers 18-50 and I just wonder.
Jay says
Not all of us good men are like that since it has become very difficult for many of us looking for a good honest relationship today unfortunately.
Emily says
I’m a 35 year old mom of four, and I’ve actually found success doing the exact opposite of the advice here. Not that it isn’t good advice; I think it is. It’s a good idea to consider the type of men who might be willing and ready to accept your lifestyle.
However, dating older men with children was absolutely horrible for me. I won’t go into all of the details why. It just never worked. So I started dating younger men, and found myself much happier. My current is 28 and has no children. We are trying to make ourselves take it slowly, for practical reasons, but we’re crazy about each other! I might not have the freedom for spontaneous trips, but I make plenty of time for him. I don’t understand some people’s aversion to hiring a babysitter and going out… or hanging out together with the kids present… or spending time together while the kids are asleep. Last night we enjoyed the full moon and hot sex on a blanket in my backyard after the kids’ bedtime. You just gotta be creative. And younger men seem to appreciate the fact that we don’t expect them to pay for everything, aren’t pushing for marriage and kids right away, and are emotionally mature and stable. Some men know they don’t want to have kids of their own, but like children and like being around them. And as kids grow up, you have more and more free time. Once they’re teenagers I don’t see how they really interfere with your dating life at all. Just have appropriate boundaries.
I guess my advice is to talk to men you find attractive and have things in common with. Don’t worry about their age or whether they have children. If you like each other enough, you’ll both be willing to compromise. He might be okay with giving up spontaneous vacations, while you’re willing to spend some time away from your kids. The right person isn’t a statistic; they’re a person with whom you click, and who has enough emotional intelligence to build a relationship.
SuthrnVegas says
Honestly all of the good guys are taken. I am divorced, going on years now,34 and have 3 kids. I have already given up on men in my life. Every single man i came across has wanted nothing more than sex. I “was” looking for a deeper connection than just in the bedroom, but this day and age, no matter where you live, a happily ever after fairytale ending isnt realistic. The only thing i see why men wouldnt want me is bc i have kids, BUT my kids will ALWAYS come first in my life. Other than my kids, i am financially set up, i have rental income, on top of a regular paycheck, investments, stocks, and i have no debt, except for the regular monthly bills. And i will be graduating in another year to getting my bachelors degree with elementary education. I know men dont want me bc of my kids, but i look at it as my kids are my happily ever after. Id do anything for them. 🙂 (sometimes i do get lonely though, i wouldnt mind someone to go around with and hang out with)
Hazz says
You know, I like the sound of that. I think I’d befriend a person with kids, provide company, do fun shit together that friends do.
I would never marry them. Ever. Why would I want to dedicate my life to some other man’s children? I’d rather adopt orphans who have far less and enjoy giving them far more.
I get really annoyed when women expect guys to bend over backwards for them. People keep telling the OP not to ‘settle’ (which really means ‘don’t compromise’), yet expect the younger guy to settle with an older woman with so many children. What a joke.
But just hearing you say “I wouldn’t mind someone to go around with and hang out…” made me feel better. I wouldn’t mind friendship, but commitment is not gonna happen.
Bewildered says
I have to admit I’m somewhat bewildered here, but not really surprised. I’m saddened by so many statements that I see like hers–women who describe themselves as looking for a “relationship” when it isn’t at all clear what her expectations from–and for–that relationship are. She has four kids, apparently is not interested in sexual intimacy, is divorced (we don’t know why or what issues led to that being the case), and it’s not at all clear that she would even have enough time to offer the time of day to whoever she expects to somehow suddenly step into her life and take up the role of taking care of her and her kids from whoever left her in the first place.
I’m not trying to be harsh, or cruel, but realistic–and honestly, I would have to state that even Evan isn’t being realistic either. If she’s honest with herself she has no “relationship” to offer whatsoever, and I honestly can’t think of anyone who would want to step into that role at this point regardless of their age or circumstance.
Perhaps one day when the kids are older and she may possibly have more time and inclination to actually offer another person more of herself on one level or another so that she might be able to attract someone interested in whatever she has to offer, but until that time I think her intuition is correct: forget about a “relationship” that isn’t going to happen at this point and enjoy your kids and your fulfilling career–which, after all, is more than many people have!
Jayra says
I have dated a lot of single dads which are also older men thinking this would be better for me but its been the same. Unfortunately ive been used for sex time and time again. I will date for about two months before having sex, make it clear i am looking for a relationship and not friends with benefits and they tell me they want the same. Then after havig sex a few times the stories come. It changes from you’re my girlfriend to im not ready for a relationship, or of we are supposedly in a “relationship” days go by where i barely hear from them expect when they have sexual desires. I dated a man for almost a year where he said i was his girlfriend but i never met his family (only a few friends) and at the end he said he couldn’t be with a woman with kids. Some go as far as introducing me to their family but still after sex its just sex. I am 35 now and considered attractive as men who sleep with me always compliment im good in bed. However i have two kids and even though i date men who are in their 40s i feel at the end they still would rather settle down with a 21 year old. Maybe im wrong but its the way ive started viewing things. Im actually so depressed about this i stopped dating a year ago. Even my ex husband has lead me to think we will get bacj together bit after a couple of sex rounds he distances himself again to date 20 year olds. I no longer date or have sex. I am fit, pretty, have a career but this isnt enough for the men ive met
Whatever says
What women don’t seem to realize is that NO man really wants to raise a child that isn’t theirs; the reason? Mostly, it’s costly. Men, not women, are the ones that bare the financial burden in a relationship. It is the man that takes the women out, it is the man in marriage that takes on the huge financial burden of children, while the woman stays home and plays mother. Men are are happy to not get married because women want to fuck. Look at it in economic terms, we have two situations, where men can either fuck and have zero responsibility or fuck and take on the responsibility of your extra children. It’s a no brainer. Your pussy isn’t worth the price, that’s why men won’t commit to you; not to also mention the fact, that most women initiate divorce (70% of the time). If a man is going to marry they want to make sure there is a return on that investment, they don’t want to be financially raped in divorce court and alienated from their kids. So let’s take some time to see what you can offer a man aside from your negative attitude. Hmmm 34 years old? Being a woman you should know how important a woman’s looks are to a man, means you only have a few years left (since you say your good looking, you may be deluding yourself though), you are a depreciating asset in that sense. 4 kids? Are they from the same man? Based on my experience, probably not, which means you are either not loyal, or have terrible taste in the type of men you should choose or you were trying to procure child support from other men by continuing to have children to help supplement your income (happens more often than you may think). Every kid you have after the first just exasperates the issue. Feminists wanted to fuck like men and selfishly take advantage in divorce court; now your upset because shit didn’t go the way you wanted. If you want to change things around, your going to have to fixed the bias courts so men don’t look at marriage as a risk. Until that happens the other advice would be to close your legs, but none of this will happen, because women won’t willingly give up those rights. — Why buy the cow when the milk is free.
GoWiththeFlow says
Whatever,
You are at the wrong place. Google “red pill” or “manosphere” and that will get you to your brethren.
Anonymous says
Not all men are this way
I am happen to be a childless single man who just so happens to be a virgin too. I have no interest in single moms because they aren’t virgins & because they come with extra baggage & drama. They wasted it all on the “bad boys” & kicked guys like me to the curb in their younger years.
Should have kept your legs closed lady. Single moms are damaged goods
J says
HA HA HA HA HA
Dudes all over the country are waving black flags, and this chick is crying about too much sex. Absolutely hilarious my female friend.
bobbs says
no self respecting guy will want a brood that’s not his plain and simple
Anonymous says
I’m different. If a woman is a single mom, I run! In other words, I cut all communication from her & avoid her like the plague. I don’t even want to have sex with a single mom. Women in the US carry more STDs than men!
Nasser says
Dear Christina,
the greatest joy in your life are your four children. A man that cannot respect that is not worth your time. Yes most men will be chasing sex but the one for you is likely to be the one that shows a vested interest in your life and not just you.
I dated a woman for many years and she had two daughters. The youngest was only a few months old when we met. It didn’t take me long nor did it take an effort to love those two beautiful girls. Many years later they still regard me as their dad. In fact, I miss them more than their mom and I remain in touch with them.
I have a view that children never ask to be born so any disrespect and disregard shown towards them is an insult on its own. Sadly, there are not many men that will embrace children that they didn’t father but then that’s not the type of man you would want. I know you are not looking for a father for your kids because they have one. However, it will be great if the man in your life is involved in your life other than just wanting you. You come with your kids and if a man cannot except that, he is not worth anything to you. There’s surely more to you than just physical appearance . Your character is your greatest asset in life.
Men are men when they can care for their loved ones, be there for them, show their love and not be embarrassed by the love they feel. These things alone provide so much joy in life and no matter what the struggles are in life, it’s always well worth it. Bide your time and don’t rush into anything. Your time will come and along with it a good man of substance. Allow your eyes, mind and heart to strip away all that’s superficial about any man you set eyes on. Trends and so called norms mean nothing. Be the best you can be for you and you will attract similar. It’s one life that you have and five that you have to consider daily. You’re smart and no doubt you can look forward to further joys in life. Take care Christina
Olivia says
I’m so sick of parents complaining no one with kids wants to date them….
Date other people with kids you selfish jerks… Jeez
I’m so tired of my friends (who are divorced with children) complaining how younger women are taking guys from them… Hello they don’t have kids and is not even the kids that are the issue it’s all the other people that come with the kids… Exs extended family the other family… Not to mention some people want to enjoy their relationship sans kids… Plus it’s unfair for you to have been in a relationship with someone without kids and you didn’t have kids then y’all decided to have kids and break up and get mad at those of us who don’t have kids for not waiting to date you… Why didn’t you date someone with kids in the first place…
What a bunch of whiners… And please four children under nine divorced with a flourishing career… Are you very wealthy and have a nanny or almony? That many children takes alot of time from work… Are you a drink with your own practice? Which means you started right at 25? Your story sounds fishy
Good_luck says
I dated a woman with a 4 year old for a year. It was horrible. That said I’m going out with one this Saturday ( first date ). Anyway, this is what you do:
Everyone has marketable qualities about them and things that would hurt their odds of scoring a boyfriend / girlfriend. For example a man who’s only 5’7 is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to dating. ( I’m 5’10 and I’m often the shortest guy in the room ). Now if the 5’7 guy made his height a big part of his life, always talked about it, complained about it, blogged about it – he wouldn’t get very far. However if that 5’7 guy focused on living an incredible life, became physically fit, financially successful, lots of fun hobbies, awesome friends, killer personal style, etc he would have no problem finding someone special. She would go “hmm.. this guy is amazing. He’s kinda short but nobody is perfect I really dig him”.
Now back to you and your 4 kids. Don’t talk about it. Don’t think about it. Don’t write about it. Live an incredible life. If you want to score a quality boyfriend do what other women do – work on being feminine, beautiful, youthful, sweet, funny instead of a jaded entitled old lady mentality. Find quality mature men, flirt with them, have fun with them, make out with them, make the first move ( there are no rules in 2017 ) don’t tell them about your kids, don’t sleep with them. Let them pursue you for a little while. They can have an orgasm but don’t have intercourse. Make them plan fun dates. Read fashion blogs. Make sure you have a perfect body ( that’s a must ). Yes it’s possible at 35. Yes you have enough time ( the secret is take out ALL sugar even honey, processed foods and keep the portions small ). Your waist should be 26 at the most but ideally 25. Girls in their twenties should be asking you how you did your makeup ( because it’s so amazing ). You should know something about music and other fun stuff that single people are interested in. Also. Very important. Lower your standards. You can have a tall, handsome guy with an amazing job who’s an alcoholic. Or a bold guy who’s not, etc. You can’t have it all at this point. Being a single mom is a very big deal to guys. Dating a woman with 4 kids is a big deal x4. Lastly, the most important tip: treat your potential future husbands like kings. You can’t afford to be a bitch. You can’t afford to complain. You can’t afford to flake. Girls with no kids can get away with it, you can’t. There are quality mature men that feel invisible on the dating scene, they want to feel appreciated more than just get laid. Show em love in a non-clingy way, give them space, be wild, fun and playful and your life will change.
SheWolf says
As a single mom, this is some of the best advice Ive ever heard. Except the word part about orgasming without sex. That would be a CT wouldn’t it? I do think single moms need to slow down and not give it all away so easily to avoid being used. I love the rest though!
Widowedover40withteen says
When I was first widowed I was new again to dating and had not yet found Evan Marc Katz’s advise. He is so helpful with dating ideas, honest and real. Thank you.
I agree with what he has said. Unfortunately I had my heart badly broken. My husband died and I was alone with a toddler. I became close friends with a man who was divorced and never had kids. So often I could not see him as he wanted to date without her but my sitter canceled, or I had responsibilities to her over him, having to even go home once when he was in the hospital as my sitter changed plans and had to leave to go home.
It is an awful feeling as a woman and mom to love a man yet not be able to be there for him like you want to as you have a child and are alone with the child in the world.
I had hoped at the time, he would be OK with my responsibility to her. He seemed to really enjoy he times we simply had her around and were alone when she went to bed. However children wake over when they are young….he left me for a woman who was never married and had a career who had as much time as he wanted for fun. I was in love. He said he “met a better deal.” My daughter also had loved him so much. He married that girl. That was over 5 years ago and I look at them online. They are so happy going out traveling at will, etc…no kids….I did my best…..
Here I am now with my child now a teenager and I have more time! She has sleepovers and is more independent! I really hope I meet someone soon….I still have responsibility to her.
Faith says
Funny. Just reading the beginning of this conversation…and I actually find the opposite to be true. I know many many single moms that have found loving loyal men…without children of there own….who loved the kids as though they were there own.
i personally wanted the blended family because I always wanted a sibling for my only child…and felt being with someone with a child of there own would make us blend easily into a family.
not the case…I find single dads who do weekend visits with there children….are very much…still single throughout the week….and the time they have every other weekend with there children fulfills enough of the family need that there really not looking to be full time family men….probably why they are divorced to begin with.
so I say no…100 percent…don’t rule out any type. There is no one type that would be a better fit then another. I think finding the right fit for anyone is difficult and at this point have resigned to the fact that when it’s meant to be it will be with who it’s meant to be with and you have no control over that. The best thing to do is enjoy your children and your life as best you can on your own and believe….that if there is a fit…you won’t have to look…they will find you…and single or with children…they will love you and your children….when it’s the right one for you at the right time for you. I don’t think you can look for what you want to find…especially with 4 kids. That has to be more of Gods work then your own. So for now have your fun and take no one serious until they show you they are….and give no one your heart unless they have given you there all.
it will get lonely at times …but better to learn to be happy alone then involved in a one-sided heartless romance.
Dan says
I’ll make this short and sweet that’s not entirely true I’m a man of 50 years old I’ve dated a lot of girls that were a lot younger than me I’ve been till I was 45 and then stopped it and completely maybe been on three dates actually in The Last 5 Years wasn’t looking for anything serious because I just gone through a relationship which didn’t turn out the way I wanted to now it 50 Cent’s 45 I did a turnaround in my life where I just was thinking a lot more maturely about finding a wife and having children I had gotten married and the woman asked me to marry her and she was 20 years younger and very pretty and I kind of ran with it without even getting to know her and what kind of person she was turned out she’s very immature and had a drug problem so it’s also very difficult for the guys out there who get a bad rap from all the other scumbags that all they do care about is sex I totally understand cuz I talked to guys all the time about stuff like that I’ve already blocked that walk for a long time I’ve been a commercial fisherman for for almost all my life after the military I used to live in Alaska where I used to do very dangerous jobs like Alaskan king crab fisherman because I just was more of a drenalin junkie and always wanted that high for to make myself feel alive I didn’t care so much about relationships and even if I wasn’t one it didn’t last because I was always out to see a lot as I got older and I stopped fishing I thought I would give it a shot and I guess I just picked the wrong ones and jumped into things too fast not all of us guys are like that and I guess maybe it takes getting older to find that out the hard way I’ve felt alone and very sad and I look at children now with such Envy where I wish to God that I had had some because there’s so much fun and they’re so beautiful I can’t imagine having children because I see things on TV and it’s like I’m just like I wish I had that and I know it’s all TV and sore but I really always looked in the past 5 years that I could find that perfect life and have a few kids be that perfect Dad I know I would be an excellent dad I just never could find the right girl and the girls that were right for me at times my life I push them away because I thought I was more of a womanizer than a serious fine for any woman anyway I was called that quite often by my own family and had a Fallout with them as well because I got involved they’re all Married with Children and seem very happy now that I’m 50 I don’t look it people say I look ten twelve years younger than I actually am it’s been like that all my life I guess that’s why a lot of younger women is always hit on me and wanted to have a relationship with me but I just want you to know that I respect women and a great deal for the fact that they give life to us and they’re so devoted to their children at least the normal ones are I’ve seen some that are just absolutely disgusting and talk so abrupt and ridiculously disgusting around their children and Ives been sick from seeing it and just always thought that I’m going to end up like someone like that and end up getting divorced and only seeing my children a little bit I pray to God all the time sometimes end up in tears which is quite often lately cuz I feel like I’ve missed out on so much in life by not finding a nice girl instead of always looking for the Lookers and not looking inside and finding someone I could have a relationship with and be my best friend sex isn’t the most important thing to me I’ve already been down that road and I’m sure it is with a lot of other men actually quite a few so I can totally understand specially you looking probably younger like you said then what your actual ages to me you’re very young because I’m 50 and your 34 I can see that looking at at that way you’re basically a kid to me so don’t ever think that you’re too old or your a milg and have been taken advantage of you’re probably a young beautiful mom and you should be very very lucky that you have 4 beautiful children is nothing better than that I see that now more than I’ve ever seen it in my life and I regret all the things I’ve done and not sometimes believe that I’m probably never going to ever find anyone and be alone the rest of my life I wouldn’t give up on men entirely but I would make men wait quite a long time and get to know them very well before you go ahead and give them sex or anything like that because it’s not the most important thing love is and true companionship and being a best friend to somebody is the most important thing I would give anything to have something like that I’m only telling you these things because there’s a lot of men out there I believe that are probably in my shoes and they feel like they screwed up and didn’t take advantage of the good woman that they might have had at one point time of their life and made a serious commitment with because they do think of sex first I now know that it’s not my major priority and having sex I’ve been there done that live the Crazy Life been all over the world served my country had many girlfriends and encounters but I’ve been pretty much on hold for the last five years after this last relationship so I needed this time I guess to really see what is more important in life and the field being alone and the good of what’s really important to make someone’s life of any value all’s I can say is don’t give up just change up your game plan and I think somebody is going to see you for what you really are and they’re not going to jump right into the sack with you because they’re going to be more interested and having a best friend and someone that loves and cares about them is nothing better than that not sex not anything so don’t give up not all men are the same some of us grow up and realize what’s right and what’s wrong took me 50 years or actually 45 to find out but I guess better late than never but I feel like it’s too late and I’m probably not going to be able to ever find that person but I can’t say to you you’re young still and I’m sure you’re beautiful I haven’t seen your picture but I don’t think you would have any problem looking for someone that’s the right person for you
Justin says
There’s is no way a single guy with any self respect is climbing into that strap!!! She better be glad there are guys who will have sex with her. With 4 kids she’s not even booty call material you would still have to wait until all them kids were in bed or gone to have sex because I would never meet the kids. Maybe she can find a beta male.
Curtis Martinsen says
Women just can’t seem to except that men like sex too!! Let me ask,how many ladies would date a man without a penis? Woman need to start acting like ladies again and stop dressing slutty and men might just treat you ..mostly brainwashed women..like a women.you women wanna run the show and use your bodies to drag and naugh at a man’s heel ,,”forever”!! Very few marriages are healthy and happy..because you ladies forgot how to be a wife .so in -turn men are pulling back.
Fayuim says
I agree men should NOT be having sex or dating single mothers……
dj says
here’s a tip don’t use online dating to find your men dont use *inder to find a relationship its a hook up site remember. There are still good men and woman. I only date woman WITH kids between ages around 7-13 I am not looking for a roll in the hay I want a real Long term lasting relationship and i struggle to find anyone serous. its moms that want brad pitt as their date which i am not. I am 40 though!
Anonymous says
7-13?!?!
My god, now they’re having kids that young!
Ted says
You’ll just have to lower your standards, is all. If you’re only seeking men who have their own house, you may have to find someone who rents. If you’re already willing to take someone who rents and can’t find one, consider someone who lives with his parents. That’s what men are doing when they are considering a woman with kids – they are lowering their standards.
SheWolf says
No, women lower their standards dating ugly, cynical men like you. The best lookomg people are single parents. People who don’t marry or have kids often have social problems, health problems, and attitude problems. Yes I’m talking to you.
Anonymous says
Dating a single mom is like playing a saved bad boy’s game. No thanks.
DB says
Unless he was abusive, an addict or left her, she should have stayed with her husband.
Bill E. Bob says
Here’s my perspective. I’m a single dad, divorced, part-time (50%) custody of my two kids, pay my spousal and child support and stayed in the ‘family home’ (bought out the ex).
Here is why I think that if I was dating, I’d have a smaller dating pool:
1. I am a male who has kids on a regular basis. I’d say quite a few men “have kids” but don’t have kids living with them. Big difference. Even on my “off days” I am taking kids to sports, shopping for kids needs, or covering for ex because she has to work (and she does this for me as well).
2. I am on a very limited budget. People say “C’mon date!” Even though I could afford a couple dates per month, I can’t afford the ensuing relationship.
3. I’m very reluctant to introduce someone new to my kids before a solid relationship would be established and I know that person VERY well. I find many people introduce kids very quickly, and I disagree with that.
So, here is my point.
Take me, as a man, and my female equivalent: a woman in the exact same position, same net income (after spousal, child support, other benefits, whatever). Single mom, 2 kids (part time), just getting by. I think that the woman has better dating prospects than the man. When my ex went back on the market, she had guys lining up to date her despite the fact she was near bankruptcy. There is still an expectation that a man should bring in at least half (if not, most) of the income. I find myself socially crippled due to this.
I feel for any man who is a REAL father to his kids and meeting his financial obligations. I have heard (anecdotally) that many single moms want acceptance while having a strong preference for men who are still financially solvent and don’t have kids or their kids are not with them.
Also, many men are waking up and realizing that there are more risks than benefits to taking on a “woman with kids” than warrants the effort. Men worry about the relationship ending, and now with “en loco parentis” (in place of a parent) child support rulings, you can become as good as a biological parent as far as child support goes.
Divorce is very common, so there are tonnes of single parents out there now.
I’d say childless people who prefer to date other childless people are totally within their right. I would not expect a childless woman to “take on” me and my kids. Why? My two kids are coming first, and I would never expect a primary partner to voluntarily come second. I’m also really leery about doing the blended family thing, and I totally get why other parents would feel the same way.
sheWold says
I disagree with this advice. Single moms need to go for the divorced or widowed older men who have grown children. He knows what he’s getting into, and she doesn’t have extra kids to babysit. It’s a win/win. Older men that workout are hot actually!
Neo says
I’d be sympathetic to the OP is I read a single word on her understanding how she pushed her baby daddy out of her life.. Sure he wanted sex just like the guys she now rejects as dates. If she is anything like my wife, she did everything she could to discourage him and reject him until he decided he had made a bad deal and moved on.
O says
I’m at the point of giving up I’m young I’m 29 my so-called boyfriend is 36.he wants to have a single life because he doesn’t want to be a dad to my kids but I never asked him to be a dad to my kids. Done with guys if guys don’t want have a real woman that works and takes care of their kids and has their own place I don’t know what else they want. They want some fresh tight skin person boobs and stuff like that that’s what I feel like. I rather be alone then manipulated.
Candace says
I dated a guy like this divorced,and thought he would understand. But turns out I am too good for him. I am going to stop dating period.
Keith B says
I read this story and I have to say you had 4 kids and was married before. Now you are complaining about men don’t take you seriously? Then saying that you are worth more? The problem with you and this is the deal with men today. It is a buyers market. Meaning a lot of you women get bored in these relationships and then make shit up in your head that your current is such and such. Then you are looking for the next guy when you are with the current guy. Then you expect a guy to take on that responsibility of another man’s kids. Ladies, here is the deal be 100% sure that you want to have kids and who the father is going to be. Why? This is what could happen and now you have kids and men don’t see you as a dating option but only a booty call. It’s not the guys fault who is using her for sex. It’s the woman’s because she had 4 kids with her ex and then expecting men not to judge her on her past and to take care of her and her children. One thing I learned years ago on the Tom Leykis show is Tom repeatedly said not to date single mothers. He was talking about the subject with the state of Washington. Then I checked my neck of the woods as I am in Canada. I checked the laws and I haven’t dated single mothers since then because all a man has to do is bond with a child and he will be paying for kid/kids that isn’t his. If a guy knows the laws and willing to do that, then fine he can do it. I think it is stupid personally but I wouldn’t do it personally. The thing that gets me the men who don’t know the laws and their penis does the thinking for them. You might not like my answer but really you don’t have options and you mentioned becoming a nun maybe that’s a good idea for you.
Stephen says
If I was out with Christina I would ask her the following questions:
1. Did your ex husband beat you or the children?
2. Was your ex husband an alcoholic or drug addict?
3. Did you ex get sent to prison for something?
Other than that, as a guy, I would think “If she isn’t committed to working it out with the father of her children, do I really believe she’s really going to commit to me when times get tough?” That answer is a very loud and resounding “NO!!”
You made the decision to have a large family, and since women file 80%-85% of divorces it’s reasonable to assume you filed on him, and got divorced. And now you want to find some guy to step in to that?? Maybe….if they are in their 50’s with older kids. Oh, and not be wealthy. No super wealthy guy is going to do that.
Me? If we matched on Tinder and you told me you had 4 kids I would unmatch and run….
A.S. says
As a 33 year old mother of one in a similar position, only sans dates they just ask for sex and there is no date request (I guess I’m not pretty). I don’t want to date a 43 year old man . They aren’t cute to someone in their young to mid thirties. Cute and old? If this existed Botox wouldn’t. What would we even have in common other than the desire to not die alone and possibly kids? Nothing as we are from entirely different worlds. I can’t help but keep going back to simple physical attraction. He’d be old! Ancient! It’s like dating your father. Guess it is better to hang up the boots. Apparently it’s old man or alone. I still have a sex drive, and I don’t want to sleep with someone gross and old.
Yet Another Guy says
@A.S.
You are exaggerating a bit. Dating man who is 43 when you are 33 may not be ideal, but that is not a wide enough age gap to play the “He’s old enough to be my dad” card. My ex-wife is seven years my junior, and I met her when I had just turned 36 and she had not yet turned 29 (neither of us had been married or had children). Why did my ex date me? Because I have never looked my age. I hated it when I was younger, but I was loving it after I reached age 35.
One last thing, I would be careful about playing the “all men who are more than my chronological age look too old” card because people start to age at very different rates after age 35 or so, and you may be one of the people who did not win the genetic lottery. A lot of women start to age rapidly in their mid-to-late forties due to a loss of subcutaneous fat, and while you are still more than a decade away from that change, it will be here before you know it. You would not like it if a man kicked you to the curb because you are aging faster than him.
A.S. says
I’ll forgive you because you don’t know me or my family. I actually did hit that genetic lottery judging from both my parents and their parents. I suppose there could be some sort of bad luck, and maybe then I’d have to change tactic, but barring that I should be fine on that front. I also have something in common with the writer of the letter. I get told often I don’t look my age, still get hit on by much younger men (though I’ve always thought that was just a Mrs. Robinson thing and feel the same way as the author about tucking them in). My younger friend who is 26 always asks me for my youthful skin tips. I can’t tell her good genes and life isn’t fair, like how she’s thinner and younger than me, so I say good skincare routine. So in that sense, it’s about the only way I could be fussy.
Oh, and guys kick out women all the time for getting too old, even when they are much older. Looking younger than him, that’s not always the issue. Look at trump. Young and new was the issue, and men of means as well as men of naught are not too far apart mentally there. Young, not younger. Cal Worthington is another fine example, if you’re from the L.A. area anyways. Many times guys you’re that far apart with see you as an age and a look. No more seriously. You have nothing in common and they know it too. They may still play the nice card, dinner and whatnot (I’m prolly not hot enough for that level so idk), before they ask for a fling, but they still see you as a toy. If you’re really hot, possibly the mid life crisis gf/wife, but that too is temporary. I’ve had older men on dating sites (yes early 40s, divorced, with kids), offer to pay me when I wouldn’t sleep with them for free, but never dinner. These men would not have been described as a cute forty something either by other forty somethings. Maybe a haggard forty something. They don’t bother with conversation anymore than the younger ones. I think I’ve had one conversation chain with a guy since I became a mom. He lived too far away to make anything of it. He was well educated, child free, cute, near my age, and not opposed to single moms. I didn’t have to look in quite literally the previous generation (look at the dates, I’m actually accurate). Granted, it’s been allquiet on the western front since then.
Concessions would have been one thought. That I could agree with. You’re not at the top of the dating food chain anymore, you need to be more flexible. Fair. Not just hope someone older “gets” your family, and because they have one of their own, so meh. Sounds like something I thought of about a cute high school boy as a child, not a mom in my thirties. Those guys more often than not also want the young and unencumbered for “keeps anyways,” and the rest for play. They still don’t want to raise someone else’s child. They want a hot young unincumbered partner all the same, and milf is just another flavor category for casual. Then when she gets too old upgrade again. I watched my own father do it, until this last wife. Yes I said last wife. She’s his age appx.
Also, you never addressed the fact people so far apart prolly have little in common. In this case, if the only things in common are a familiarity with divorce and pampers they kinda remember changing while you did it yesterday. Sorry, it’s not exactly a great start.
Finally, fact is while she has young kids, “his” kids are likely much older. At least from people I’ve seen on sites or know personally. By “his” age, she has little ones and “he” has teens. That’s also difficult. If the kids don’t like you, bye old guy! She has young kids. Kids without that kind of difficulty. Again, it’s fair for the single and childless to say no to parents, why should she have to face potential breakup because Susie is in high school and has a problem with her dad dating this woman? Her nine year old might act up a bit at first, but he won’t reject the guy with the right prompting and fun for at least two years.
…and yes, I did exaggerate. It was more to emphasize my point. They still look like the guys I saw when I was younger and more child free on the dating scene, who either got they were past their prime and finally settled, usually with women their own age, or didn’t get it and wound up chasing women far too young for them. I don’t want that guy. That guy does see me as an age, because he wants me the same way a 43 year old cougar wants a 30 year old guy if she can’t get younger. The guy I really want is in short supply sadly. He probably still has a full dance card, and my name isn’t on it. So yea, nothing is perfect and concessions being made fairly will help, but I also don’t want to settle for someone I don’t want to sleep with anymore than someone without kids. I bet she doesn’t either, or she’d have slept with that “cute” 43 year old, rather than keep trying the hard way and feeling hurt. It’s a mighty assumption the 43 year old would treat her any better anyways.
Mark says
Having 4 kids under the age of 9 is like being a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. You are really busy. Any guy that is with you is gonna get any leftover time he can get. The fact of the matter is your kids are your priority now, not a relationship.
Kevin Andrews says
I was married 21 years to my wife she had a 4 year old son who is now 26 as he got old enough to talk it was get everything he wanted then the sister..twin was my wifes second priority and i became just a worker slave and get problems done …..never again
Steve says
Great advice Evan,
The best thing one can do in such a situation is to set standards for oneself. It would help to make a commitment to yourself that you will date the person you choose, but that you will not have sex until you are in a formal commitment relationship.
Do you at all times and your personal honor and integrity will bear fruit.
capitalist says
Single moms are a plague on this country!! They suck up valuable federal resources and give no value to the taxpayer. I won’t date a single mom because she has already shown poor judgement. There are enough normal women that luckily I don’t have to even consider single moms. These single women are not all saints and can sometimes be far worse than the problems associated with single mothers. When I see a tatted up and pierced woman I immediately rule her out. She obviously has esteem issues that led her to deface her body and these issues will surface at some point. I also don’t want her on my arm at an elegant event with colleagues and have all those tattoos exposed down her neck, back, arms etc… they just look trashy ladies so don’t do it.
There are men suited for single moms but in general single moms don’t want them but must settle for them, “Beta males”. These men will accept the job as cuck and provider for someone else’s children. A huge problem for single mom’s is also that many modern males have no drive for success. The adolescent millenial men who play video games all day, smoke pot and generally just want to get by are not good options even for single mothers. My advice for successful men is to avoid the #metoo problems and just set a sugar baby contract where you can have the company of a female when needed but not the expense or drama of having to deal with them all the time. This strategy is becoming more popular amongst the older 40’s – 60’s wealthier men. Be sure to have the arrangement drawn up by an attorney so it’s airtight for you! Single Mom’s are a bad investment so don’t consider it!
Evan Marc Katz says
On behalf of all our readers: Ick.
Go away.
No Name To Give says
Hey, asshole, I raised three kids as a single mom, oftentimes working 2 jobs to make ends meet, no tats, no Gubmint assistance, and during a break from working two jobs? Earned my BS and MPA. I now make about $100k a year. I still work a 2 job so I can keep my foot in the door in Radio. Oh, I also never took their dad to court. We worked everything out. It was HIS idea to pay child support. We never had to go to court. So go pound sand.
Samuel says
Capitalist, I think it’s unfair to lump all single mothers into the same category, remember that some are widows of our fallen heroes! That being said I would not want to date the widow of a fallen hero as I refuse to be always second in her eyes and heart. Who can compete with that?? Capitalist how does one go about securing and “airtight” agreement with a sugar baby? I currently spend about $1700.00 a month dating women with varied results. I admit like the idea of a no games arrangement. Do you travel with your companion and how often do you see her? It seems like this approach would be much less complicated. I am not a wealthy person and I am younger than the 40-60 range you spoke of but I do make over 80k a year and my home mortgage is paid. Exactly how does this protect men from the “metoo” movement if you are still going to be in the private company of a woman?
Lynx says
Samuel: this is probably not the best site for advice on contracting the services of a prostitute. Just sayin’.
Buck25 says
Umm, Samuel and Capitalist, I think that if you if you’re seeking a “sugar baby” to take care of your sexual desires, there are sites where you may find what you’re looking for as well as advice on how best to handle such “arrangements”. I’m pretty sure this site isn’t one of them, but one thing about the internet is there’s something there for every taste in the matter. I’m not going to list those for you, but just google “sugar baby” or “sugar daddy” , and I’m confident you’ll find what you’re looking for!
As for hookers, unless you’re living in Nevada, I’m pretty sure that’s illegal, but if that’s your thing, you can find those too: see “escort services”. At least some of those are actually prostitution, and if the price is right…just be sure she isn’t actually an undercover vice cop, though…
Actually though, I’m not sure why you need either; I mean, these days, casual sex is so readily available that it’s fairly easy to obtain, and without much work or expense, at that. Before I retired from the dating scene last year, I never had to look far to find women so inclined, if I wanted that, (didn’t see any real point in having sex with a woman I didn’t even know well enough to know whether I even liked her or not, but YMMV) and I was 70 at the time! I’m pretty sure you’re both younger, so if you can’t find that, you’re either looking in the wrong place, or you’re not doing something quite right. There are hookup sites out there though, so you might find similarly disposed women there, but again, I don’t think you’ll find them here. Just sayin’.
Texas82 says
I’ve read through all of these comments and what stands out in my mind the most is the ideology associated with dating “single parents” vs dating “child free”. People seem to think they won’t run into issues if they avoid single parents, but when you direct dating and the other issues brought to attention its really all the same.
I’m a single mom of 3. I married my husband when I was a single mom of 1. In my experience, kids don’t bring any additional issues unless you’re dealing with an extremely immature individual. When I was a 25 year old single mom of 1, I had no problem dating but I hated how immature most men my age were. So I dated older men and it worked out great. 30-35 to be exact.
This was 10 years ago and culture has changed significantly. People aren’t really growing up these days at the same rate. I’m 2008 a 25 year old in the South had a stable job, house or condo, and was looking for marriage (this was my environnement). Nowadays 35 year olds are just finishing college and traveling around partying. Which is fine but if you are in your 30s wanting a mature committed relationship you have to really find the right group of people with certain values. I’m now 37 and divorced with 3 kids and dating again and having great experiences. But I’m still dating older, 45-55, and only men who are either very religious or divorced, because they typically enjoy kids and have traditional values.
Whatever it is you’re looking for, it’s out there. But you have to expand your circle and thinking.
Vector Powers says
How come if you allow divorce to be an option do you ever get married in the first place.
Lol says
I mean I’d be open to dating a single mom if she added to my life. I’m practically a bum but I’ve never met a woman who wasn’t better with me than without me, and it’s probably because I’m educated and intelligent and a good person with a lot of good qualities, can be sensual to not some autist robot. Sorry humblebrag is chodeplay. On the other hand I just dont see that many women who offer much and who dont take a lot in return, usually the opposite and kids mess just piles onto whatever issues she already has. Just look at the women here talking about men and relationships and what a damn mess they are. So full of themselves and over what exactly? Like they dont want to settle as if they have something to offer someone? This is why in Asian countries working women pay Male prostitutes to be their fake boyfriend, because they are takers, not givers. The only thing they have to give is the same thing the men she hates have to give, money. Him being able and willing to trigger positive emotions in her let alone sexual emotions is a luxury she feels entitled to by virtue of her birth, and that’s a boner killer.
Like someone else said if you want a good guy in your life maybe make sure the father of your child is worth staying with cuz if you cant make it work with him of all people then who?
I’m great with kids but theres something degenerate about being the dork who has to be a suck up to her and the kids for the privilege of being her 3rd choice. Like I’m not trying to hurt feelings buy realistically in a world without government tyranny, single mothers who didnt work enough to retire when she had kids and able to afford all of that on her own while also being an active mother, would die in nature. I dont wish any bad will on anyone it’s just confusing if you wanted love and a relationship why not have that with the father? Like if shes so dumb that shes going to have kids with someone she cant stand what makes her think shes a good companion let alone somehow superior and worthy of a superior partner that she made up in her head? Should focus less on nonsense and more on being a good woman to a good man.