I’m a Single Mom Who Is Ready To Give Up On Men Because They All Want Sex.

I am 34 years old, divorced four years. I was married for ten years, have four beautiful boys under 9 and have a very fulfilling and successful career. My life is happy, but I really would love to share it with someone… but dating when you have FOUR kids is like the Mt Everest of the dating world! It seems almost impossible for men to see past that.

Well, let me clarify: I have no shortage of “dates”. I guess I must be in reasonable shape because NOBODY can guess I’ve even had four kids, or that I’m even 34 (I get asked out by guys in their early 20s- I feel like I should read them a story and tuck them into bed… not GET into bed with them, uh!). I have an outgoing personality and seem to be asked out a lot… we usually go on a few dates, everything is going wonderful… but nobody ever COMMITS. I’m not talking about church bells, but just to an actual relationship.

I am SICK of feeling used. I am sick of being treated like a piece of ass, and treated like I must be desperate because I have kids. I’m tired of guys treating me like I should be grateful if they even stick around for five minutes. Even if I really take my time getting to know someone before we become intimate… it seems that sex is all they continue to want. Don’t hear from him for days, I assume it’s over…then a text with, “hey are you home tonight?” Grrrr.

What? Do I need to be a nun in order to find someone who can actually see a relationship with me? Is it unreasonable that I am hoping someone could take me seriously or see my worth? I’ve been in a terrible relationship before and honestly now, I’d rather be alone than with the wrong guy. I believe I have a lot to offer – I am caring, kind, warm, loyal and intelligent. There is more to me than a MILF.

I am not looking for a father for the boys; they have one. I am not looking for a provider; I provide very well for myself. I just want a friend and a companion and someone who I have chemistry and intellectual compatibility with.

I am seriously at the point of giving up on the whole dating thing… Is it too much of an ask that I could actually meet someone who can see me as a woman, and not just as mother or worse, a bit of bedroom fun? Should I just shelve my desire to find a partner? I know Everest is high, but SOME people get up the damn thing, don’t they?

Ironically- I write Romantic Comedies for a living. I just didn’t think I’d end up stuck in one. 🙁

Cristina

Dear Christina,

Before I give you the pep talk you need, let me first acknowledge the painful truths that you’ve eloquently outlined above. I’m sure many other women can relate.

Having four kids under the age of 9 is a huge handicap. I’d try to spin it in a slightly more positive way, but I can’t. As a screenwriter, I don’t know if you live in LA or not, but this is a town where people don’t grow up for a really long time. I got married at 35 and had kids at 37 and 39 and I was ahead of most of my friends. There’s no way that I – or most men who don’t have their shit together – would willingly enter into a relationship with a woman who has so many other responsibilities, the way all moms do.

At risk of making myself look bad, I once dated a single mom of a two-year-old. She was smart, she was sexy, she was financially independent – and she had no time to give to me. At the time, when I was 33, I blamed her for this, thinking that if she liked me more, she’d make a greater effort. In fact, it had nothing to do with me. What I didn’t know then is that kids suck up every second of free time you’ve got, and that you have to work extra hard to create me-time, much less couple-time. Ultimately, all I wanted from that single mom was to hook up, because that’s all I felt she could give me. Whether it’s fair or not is debatable, but that’s how I felt at the time. I’d venture to guess that your sex-oriented guys feel the same way. It’s not you they don’t want; it’s your lifestyle.

You shouldn’t quit because single men your age want sex and more time. You should just find a guy who is looking for a Brady Bunch family, who sees sex as the icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

Maybe your ex shares custody and gives you weekends off, but I think we can all agree that women with four kids have less available time than women without four kids. And if the greatest gift a woman can give a man is her time, who are men going to gravitate towards – the harried mom who has to manage four lunches, babysitters, soccer practice, and bedtime routines – or the one who is blissfully unencumbered by such essential responsibilities? Put yourself in their shoes and it’s pretty easy to see.

The fact that you’re caring, kind, loyal, warm, and intelligent means that you have a lot going for you and will ultimately make a guy very happy. So instead of giving up on the whole thing – which, as you know – is incredibly shortsighted, given that you have 50 more years on this earth, how about you change focus?

Middle-aged divorced men understand what it’s like to be you. Single guys in their mid-30s who want to have their own biological kids in four years don’t. They want to take spontaneous romantic trips to Vegas, which is something that’s hard to do with four children of your own.

Instead of dating cute 34-year-old single guys who don’t have kids, how about you date cute 43-year-old guys who are in the exact same spot in life, who understand your predicament, who have obligations of their own, and who will be delighted to meet a woman who gets THEM.

You shouldn’t quit because single men your age want sex and more time. You should just find a guy who is looking for a Brady Bunch family, who sees sex as the icing on the cake instead of the cake itself.

I promise you, they’re out there.

Today, I’m giving you my new book, “Believe in Love – 7 Steps to Letting Go of Your Past, Embracing the Present, and Dating with Confidence.” and it’s going to forever change the way you view dating, men, and relationships.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    talk to the hand rules

    Hi,
    There are still so many men in Los Angeles that are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages to much younger women and they have kids.  I know because I see what men ask for online.  A lot of men my age over 55, have young children. It is shocking to me.  So I stay away from that for the same reasons that men stay away from women with children.. That said, you are right, there are a few men out there that want to blend a family.  I have read profiles of men I want to contact but am stopped because they state they prefer women with children.
     

  2. 2
    Sophie

    I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest Christina has to change her type just to clinch someone. That is like urging someone to settle which no-one should do. 

    Christina, I am in a similar position although just the one child and it is probably more the resigned vibe you are giving off or maybe you are looking too hard. Focus on other stuff and believe Mr Right, whatever he may look like, will turn up one day even if it’s not till the children have flown the nest. Don’t sacrifice who you are because the guys you’be dated so far don’t have the maturity to handle your situation. A woman would take on a guy with 4 kids and hopefully the world will one day change so that the same is true vice versa. 

     

    1. 2.1
      Chance

      Sophie, 


      How is it unfair to suggest that she considers dating men who are in the same boat as her as opposed to men who don’t have kids?  I’m not quite sure I follow your logic.   I mean, go for the men you want, but anyone who sees dating someone in the same boat as her as settling will likely struggle due to her lack of awareness.

      It seems to be fairly common to see women frustrated about men not wanting a relationship with them because they have kids, but it often appears that these women aren’t considering men that have children as potential partners.  Not saying that is the case here, but it often appears that way. 

      1. 2.1.1
        Chantal

        I’m sorry Sophie, I thought you were advocating the unrealistic approach, but you and I agree.

      2. 2.1.2
        Lia

        If you have spent any time reading this blog, you will realize that Evan doesn’t tell you what you want to hear – he tells you what you need to hear. Whining about how it is “unfair” does not make it untrue. The surest way to end up miserable and alone is to get stuck in how “unfair” it all is. Pointing out how things are unfair and what needs to change so that the dating world can be fair is a ridiculous waste of time. Get over it!!! 
         
        Evan is holding up a mirror so that she can see what her situation looks like from the other side. You are suggesting that she cross her fingers and hope real hard and not change anything that she is doing. There’s a name for doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results, it’s called insanity.
         
        How exactly is opening up to guys that will be more excepting of her situation sacrificing herself and who she is??? And your wise clincher for your argument is “hopefully the world will one day change”? Well that’s useful… NOT!

    2. 2.2
      Chantal

      Sophie, you’re not being realistic.  One kid is not FOUR.  You cannot compare your situation. 
      That said, Her children are not an appendage – but,  SHE chose to have a big family and for whatever reason, got divorced. No, she does not have the same chances that a single woman or one with 1 kids has. It’s time people own up to their choices and stop making believe.

    3. 2.3
      Gina

      I don’t think Evan is suggesting to change her type, but obviously if you keep sticking your finger in the fire and get the same results, doing something different would be a smart idea.  The fact is you have to understand statically what Evan is saying, it’s not all of them but if she is able to make small changes to meet her dating goals that can bring great results. I am a women who is 33, no kids, never married and I can say that I would not take on a man with 4 kids because at the end of the day how on earth could we enjoy a relationship with such different priorities, however, if I had 3 boys of my own yes that is different. There is nothing bad or wrong with a women or man who doesn’t want to date someone with a large amount of kids, you just have to meet the one who is at that stage of the game/ similar life experience and or circumstance and like Evan said most (not all) 34 year old men are not at that stage yet. 

      1. 2.3.1
        San

        Hello g I agree

    4. 2.4
      Teena

      That’s not true I would never date or marry a man with multiple small children….as I don’t want to do the lunches, soccer, and other time consumption activities that may be required not to mention he has alimony and child support payments, along with college funding..but the fact that your getting hounded for sex is just a sign of the times…us single women with no kids get the same crap…keep your head up…

    5. 2.5
      Don

      Sophie, I am a Single Father with an 8yr old daughter. She and I are together at least 3 days each week, sometimes more. Women without children don’t want to get involved with a Man with children anymore than Men not wanting to get involved with Single Mother.

      I love my little girl more than anything or anyone else. I have never let her see the couple of women that I briefly dated. I hear people say those without children are selfish and don’t understand. Guess what, your right. Our life style is not their problem. Even other single parents have a difficult time dating other single parents. Just life. I haven’t dated in over 2 years. I get together with friends and other parents with children to keep everyone engaged and ensure my daughter has positive impressions at an early age.

      Made our own beds, now we parent up and own it!

    6. 2.6
      Something or other

      Dating a woman with children IS settling…. Men, of which I am, are similar to lions. We typically do not like other people’s kids. It is what it is. We do not develop emotional attachments to children as easily, and there’s nothing that can change that instinct. We do not want to give our, usually, hard earned resources to another man’s child.

      this is a case of many but not all… So you single women are going to be fighting for a very limited type of dude. The kind you are attracted to, can respect, and who are, at least on the surface, fighting the instinctual urge to populate his and only his DNA…. Ala the male lion killing Cubs and reimpregnatimg the females….

      Life is a brutal, dirty game. Without our mostly* peaceful (drones and bombs) society, ya’ll single mothers would probably lose a couple children to starvation and predators…. Ever seen a mother chimp watch as her child is torn from her arms and beaten against the ground by a male chimp? Now that’s some f’d stuff. It’s probably emotionally debilitating that mother chimp for life, meanwhile she’s nursing the child of her savage rapist…..

      besides, us men are just flawed people as well. We have our own expectations and needs. We are not appliances, and neither are you. We’re just people trying not to be miserable in a difficult world. Not everyone gets someone. Some people get multiple someone’s. Other people are born without skin, or genatalia…. Perspective.

      sorry bout all that nasty imagery.. But I’m assuming we’re all adults and that the realities of life are on the table. And I can’t stress enough how much I condemn the slaying of children whether it be human or animal.

       

       

      1. 2.6.1
        Chioma Okonkwo

        It’s sad you feel this way. You could be limiting yourself

  3. 3
    Melissa

    I think Evan is spot on. And to Sophie’s comment, as a single woman with no kids, I wouldn’t take on a man with four kids, so I totally get the letter writer’s dilemma. That said, I would rather date a man with a child; if he’s a good father, it shows that he knows how to take care of and consider someone other than himself. But 4…it is a lot for me as a childless woman to wrap my head around.

    There’s no question about it…Evan is giving a practical tip to help Cristina achieve what she’s looking for. By no means does she have to follow his advice. And by no means does she HAVE to limit herself to what Evan suggests. But what does she have to lose if she begins to include the type of guys that Evan suggests into her searches?

  4. 4
    Jeremy

    Cristina, I will start by wishing you the very best of luck in your search.  You sound like an intelligent person with a lot going for her, and I hope you find what you are looking for.
     
    My perspective on your situation is that, as Evan wrote, you will have a tough time finding what you want with someone your own age (early to mid 30’s), and that your experiences are not unexpected (unfortunately).
     
    Most men in their early to mid 30’s (and even late 30’s) are just beginning to think about settling down, and about “one day” having children.  Part of the fun of that fantasy is finding the right woman to settle down with, getting to know her, building a relationship and having experiences together (with just the 2 of you), and then eventually reaching the point where the decision is made to start a family.  In your particular case, a man who has a relationship with you is immediately getting the whole package all at once.  Very few, if any, childless men in their 30’s want that, even with a woman who is totally amazing in and of herself.  There is just too much responsibility involved, right from the outset (and, again, most men mature into child-rearing responsibility over time and do not want it thrust upon themselves quickly).
     
    I know that you wrote that you don’t want a father for your kids, since they already have one.  But realistically, that’s what any man who has a relationship/marriage with you will be – a father figure for your kids – whether or not they already have a father, and whether or not you provide the lion’s share of the income.  It’s kind of obvious, realistically speaking, and that’s how any man is going to see it.
     
    Having said that, I totally agree with Evan.  Are there men who would see you as you wish to be seen, and value you for the person you are?  YES.  Will these men likely be in their 30’s and childless?  NO.   Your lack of success in finding a quality man is likely related to the type of man you are searching for.

    Best of luck in whichever path you choose.

    1. 4.1
      sayan sam

      Yes I agree

    2. 4.2
      Isabel

      I know of SO many young women who totally change after child birth.  I don’t just mean weight gain. Sometimes their true selfish nasty personalities instead of just the facade that is easy to project when you don’t have a care in the world.

      Some women who seem so sweet & nurturing actually can be terrible mothers in practice!   This disturbing reality hit my brother who thought his 20something girlfriend was going to stay home with baby & noe she’s gone with her friends a lot while he’s alone with ther baby at home.

      The point is when you see a single mom who you do respect as a mother,  who has her life together, you are getting the real deal.  Not a fantasy of what she might be as the “Mother Ideal”

      You can see she is healthy & fertile.  She didn’t gain 200 lbs and turn into a post partum psychotic nightmare who can’t clean house or cook.

      I think young single girls in the West today are not raised to be good mothers & wives.  No matter how nurturing & sordid they might seem, having a baby changes a woman and sometimes not for the best.   Men are taking a big risk wanting a family with a woman who hasn’t shown she is well suited to it.

      When you’re single you have all the time in the world to dorms on your appearance & attracting a man with your charms.  With single moms you get a preview into what domestic life wound be like.  How is her home? How are her kids? Etc.  You can’t fake it so easily

      1. 4.2.1
        anon

        The moms I know that changed for the worse were very young (early – mid 20′), got pregnant by a man that there were not dating for very long, and the man was just using her for a pump and dump and had no intention of a committed relationship or marriage.  So yes – being a young mom, scared of the future, raising a child alone because 99% of the time baby daddy runs out on them, sleep deprived, hormonal, trying to hold down a job?  Of course her personality’s going to change.  The women who hook up with these men knowing they abandoned their kids?  They are no better.  Instead of complaining about these women turning into b*tches, maybe you could try helping them. Cook a meal once in a while or offer to babysit so she can get some time to herself.  If you can show one of these women that you want to help and truly care about the future of her and her kids you would see a big change for the better in their personality. I work with women like this, and I used to have the same (false) impression that you did until I went out of my way to help them out.  Maybe you should start asking questions about the men that abandon their kids (and not believe the BS that they tell you – oh, baby mom was a b*tch so I left and she doesn’t let me see the kids.  99.9% that’s an outright lie).

  5. 5
    Tom10

    @ Sophie #2
    “I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest Christina has to change her type just to clinch someone.”

    It might be unfair, but since when was dating fair? This is something that all of us have to deal with when dating.

    “That is like urging someone to settle which no-one should do.“

    Hmmm…

    “Don’t sacrifice who you are because the guys you’be dated so far don’t have the maturity to handle your situation.”

    Nobody is suggesting that Christina should sacrifice who she is, but if she is not getting the results she wants, wouldn’t it be wise to consider making changes to her approach and her target dating pool?

    “A woman would take on a guy with 4 kids and hopefully the world will one day change so that the same is true vice versa.”

    Well some women might take on a guy with 4 kids, but many wouldn’t. However, hoping for the world to change one day is a futile strategy.

    @ Evan 
    “Instead of dating cute 34-year-old single guys who don’t have kids, how about you date cute 43-year-old guys who are in the exact same spot in life, who understand your predicament, who have obligations of their own, and who will be delighted to meet a woman who gets THEM.”.

    I agree with this 100%. Rightly or wrongly, most young cute single guys will consider single mothers for sex only unfortunately.  Why would they take on such huge responsibility if they could find someone else without that responsibility?

    1. 5.1
      Frimmel

      Rightly or wrongly, most young cute single guys will consider single mothers for sex only unfortunately.  Why would they take on such huge responsibility if they could find someone else without that responsibility?
       
      And those guys would also seek women much more likely to bear them their own biological children. 1 or 2 of another man’s kids is pushing it already. If she’s “done” bearing children then she’s asking a man without children to give up the possibility of his own kids while taking on a lot of responsibility for another man’s kids. And if she’s on good terms with the ex it strongly suggests a “frivorce” making for way to many risks and downsides.

  6. 6
    starthrower68

    I stand with Evan on this one.  I’ve dated guys who don’t have kids but I’m not sure they relate to where I’m at in life.  Remember so that men come and go. But you will always have your kids in your life.

    1. 6.1
      Lennox

      That’s the best advice. Single Moms and Dads need to look at the big picture here. They might need love but at the end of the day the kids should be their number priority and joy. Some experts actually believe its best not to even date when you have young children. They say it’s better for the child’s well being and safety. Especially with all these predators out there that prey on single mom’s kids. It’s called sacrifice people!

       

      My Mom and Dad divorced when I was 10. Guess what? My Mother never brought any “new” men around my brother and I. To this day I love and respect her for that. It’s gross to think about it, but she might have had some casual relationships that she kept secrect and that was her bunsiness. Let me end this on a bright note. My Mom found the love of her life in her early forties when my brother and I were all grown up. They are together and happy to this day (22 years now). Be patient and always put your children first they will love you for that when they are adults.

  7. 7
    shellyb

    I think Evan is right in suggesting you consider other types of men to date. I would also suggest just putting any serious dating aside for awhile, like a few years at least. My two kids were 7 and 9 when I got divorced. I put all thoughts of dating and men aside for almost 7 years. I focused on just my own family, raising the boys, building my career, and becoming completely content with being alone. It was the best thing I did for me and my kids. Once I did start dating, I found the selection of men to be so much better. And my family was more ready to bring someone new in, and so was Ii. Good luck to you, if doing is frustrating to you, really consider just pouring out on hold… It should be a sign that you’re not quite as ready as you should be, and maybe your family isn’t either. Dating should be a fun adventure!
     
    And by the way, even though I’m 40, I get hit on and asked out by young 20 something’s regularly…. Unless you’re just looking for seeds, they’re not worth it!!

  8. 8
    Tosha

    I am a 40 year old woman with 4 teenage boys.  I was married for almost 18 years  and we divorced.  I started dating a guy in his 50’s with no kids, never been married, didn’t want to ever be married and was totally selfish. Well, I wanted to be married again.  We dated for 2 years, but then he ended it.  I think it was because I had too many obligations.  Like you, I could take care of myself and my kids, plus their father was apart of their lives.  

    I then met Mr. Right on a blind date. He was 9 years older than I was. He lived 1500 miles away from me and we engaged in a long distance relationship for 1 year.  We are now happily married.  I have 4 kids and he has 2.  Do not give up;  the right man is out there.   He oved to my hometown and we are great and with my 4 kids.  Someone is out there.  Not every man just want sex.

  9. 9
    Chantal

    I have twins who are finally in college.  I got divorced at 37, and did do the dating thing – and have never gotten re-married.
      I’m sorry to say this but why do people jump first and then look afterwards?  4 kids in 10 years and then divorced?  I stopped at my first, and wanted to give it a break – but you just kept them coming.  You can’t have a “do-over” and think things are gonna be great – you brought your 4 kids into the world and they come first, I assume.
    You cannot expect men your age to want to commit to anything more than what you’ve got.  Evan is right – look for someone in their mid to late 40’s in decent shape – also divorced with kids — there are a lot of them out there. The ones who want (more) kids at 50 are Ah’s and steer clear of them.

    1. 9.1
      Victoria

      I imagine she believed that her marriage would last, or else she wouldn’t have had children with that particular man.  Same as you, right?  Or did you know in advance that you and the father of your two kids would someday divorce, and you decided to go ahead and make babies anyway?

      My point is this:  who are you to judge the choices she made?  Are you OK with being similarly judged by other women who chose partners, had children with them, and are still married?  

      Evan’s advice is right on.  You’ll notice he didn’t feel the need to attack her, or speak derisively of her choice to have four children.  Perhaps take a page from his book? 

      1. 9.1.1
        RustyLH

        Victoria, I think she was including herself in the jump before looking crowd. She has a point to an extent. Most men will tell you that in their 20s, most women bypassed very good men to date and marry bad boys. It seems that at this age, women care more about excitement than they do stability.

        I agree however that the tone does not have to be harsh. I agree that this women is going to have it rough and following your example may be her best bet, because I am not sure she is going to be willing to accept that she can’t have it all. Most women seem to bristly at that notion…the notion of having to settle, and so long as she sees it as settling, it won’t be very appealing to her. She will need a paradigm shift…a change from finding the “hot” guys sexy, to finding the stable, unselfish guys as sexy, even of they don’t have the pretty faces and hot bodies.

      2. 9.1.2
        Berto

        that is  not attacking attacking is whats happening to men around this country paying for kids who are not there own biological kids being forced by the justice system in the court rooms  to pay for other mens kids statistics show 90 percent of alimony goes to women and thats counting women who make other man pay  for their children all it takes is for this single mothers to prove he took cared of the kids took them to school bought them things and bam she has you paying for another mens kids Men! please beware of single mothers its not worth the risk its jsut isnt there is alot of personal experiences of men being fucked by the court systems when all they wanted was some sex and fun dont date single mothers i cant wait till some single mom here tells me not all single mons are like that haha please the moms who dont need help and have a career and money are in the few haha

      3. 9.1.3
        Stephanie

        Exactly.  Im in this boat.  14 year marriage, 4 beautiful kids. Poured my whole adult life into this man and our kids.  Everything seemed picture perfect,  then i found out he had had a pattern of cheating the whole time that I NEVER knew about, and wants out.   Leaving me screwed

    2. 9.2
      Elsa

      That was a bit harsh. I don’t think anyone wakes up wanting to be a single parent of 4 kids.

      1. 9.2.1
        Kate

        As a single parent, I often hear people who are happily married with children say you should be content with being a parent now and put your own human needs for intimate love and support on hold for the next 10 years until you are “child free”.  Your focus should  be on your children, not dating or finding love.  That’s selfish.   But I then have to ask: why so you need a partner?

        1. Berto

          its called a condom and birth control! she should of used it most people  do! so later on we are not like you blaming it on the circumstances be a grown up and own up to your mistakes dont bring some bullshit saying that she loves her kids now thats besides the point we are not talking about her feeling towards her kids now that she has them  we are talking about men and women who know its smart to use all three forms of contraceptives so then they can decide when they are ready to have kids so no it doesnt matter if she loves them now and she wouldnt have an abortion she already formed an emotional bond it could all been avoided some women and men are just baby makers and then complain why theres so many obstacles in their life now haha they asked for it

  10. 10
    SparklingEmerald

    I have to totally agree with EMK.
    My first husband had one child, and I happily filled the role of step mother, and over 30 years later, he (my step son) and I  stay loosely in touch.  But that was ONE child, my first hubby had him about 50% of the time, and he was self employed, only worked about 20 hours a week (and made great money at it) so it wasn’t really much of a burden, in fact, it was a delight.  I adore my step son !  But I think that is rather an exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself.
    However, there is no way I would have ever taken on four !  Especially with the the typical Dad having a typical full time, or overtime job.    Not that I’m unsympathetic, but expecting a man to try and squeeze himself into 5th place or lower in your life . . . . Unrealistic expectation.
    As much as I HATE that I was dumped back into the single life in my mid-fifties, I am glad I wasn’t single when one son was still in my care.  As a mother I would HAVE to put him first, and honestly, I don’t know how I would have tried to fit in dating with one young child, let alone 4.   If my marriage ended when he was still young, I would have just concentrated on being the best mom I could be and wouldn’t have bothered with dating. 

  11. 11
    Anthea

    I too have experienced the after effects of  “trying” to be in a relationship with a man (who recently turned 50) who had 3 teenage kids. When I met him, only the middle daughter lived with him, now his very troubled 15 year old lad lives FT with him as his ex wife booted out her own son onto the streets….

    OMG…. the drama! The issues we faced (I faced) trying to deal with living with an instant and adolescent family under one roof. We were together nearly 4 yaers on and off and even got engaged..BUT his obligations to his children came first and with minimal support from my then partner regarding helping me to manage living with a teenager, eventually became our undoing.

    So the upside for me? Is that I never want to date a man with children! Excessive I know but Ive been put through the wringer and for all my effort, love and support, it meant nothing when your partner continues to puts his kids “wants” before the “needs” of our relationship.  He just didnt “get it”…he just saw me as being jealous of what he did for his kids….I just saw him as trying to buy their love and the money he was throwing at his kids, I was left to have to manage and pay for us to all live together in my house from my wage (he brought no major assets with him other than a couple of cars)…All I ever wanted from him was for both of us to be on the same page….he was too busy defending his spoilt kids to consider me as his equal partner in life. 

    His loss.

    BTW….Im back to dating now BUT Ive got my witts about me now regarding men with kids….I wont not go out with them, but will be really scrutinizing their relationship  as Im sure not all fathers are over indulgent, emotionally guilty parents. We will see!! lol

    There is one guy (online dating) that tells me he works away for 2 weeks and comes home for  2 weeks and has his 3 boys FT during that time….but then tells me he can pop out now and then for a date if he wants to when he is home…..WTF! The message he is telling me is 1) He is too busy for a relationship. 2) I only want to see you on my terms 3) I only want a booty call. NEXT!! lol

  12. 12
    Paula

    Don’t want to sound mean but here’s actual proof that getting married under 25 doesn’t last (as Evan is always pointing the stats for getting married young). Cristina was married at 20, which is ridiculously early. I think she is better off dating men who are in their 40s and are divorced and already have children, like 1 or 2. I think the odds of her finding a man closer to her age that has never been married or has no children and may want them will be more difficult. I just don’t think it will work out. She needs to ‘stick with her own kind’ (i.e. divorced men). I think she shouldn’t give up either but if you want a relationship, it does require some time and energy.

  13. 13
    Sophie

    My issue is with the ‘bucket’ women with children are put into. Tom 10 refers to “most young cute single guys will consider single mothers for sex only unfortunately“. Christina herself uses the term “MILF”. While there is this labelling, men will continue to see females who happen to have a past  as damaged goods. Christina may be mother but she is also an individual and an individual subject to the laws of attraction like anyone else. If she happens to prefer guys younger than her, no amount of telling her to look for someone older is going to change what she really wants and likes. I am totally realistic. Single fathers don’t face the same pressures. That doesn’t mean I have to like it or that I or Christina should have to suppress who we attracted to because maybe, just maybe there are some guys out there that break the mould. As the saying goes: “patience is a virtue; to have it is a must”.  

    1. 13.1
      Treifalicious

      Exactly! What if she just is not attracted to men 10-15 years older than her? Why do people expect women to date and even marry men they aren’t attracted to just to get themselves married? 

      Nobody ever tells men having a hard time finding a serious girlfriend to date older women.

      1. 13.1.1
        45 single man

        no, they are told to get a better job, to be more exciting and sucessful, etc. you are not entitled to get the man or woman that you want, otherwise, all men, even 50 and 60 years old would date 20 and 25 year old women, and all women would have the bad boy millionaire type.  we can’t all have what we want, look at yourself objectively in the mirror and decide if you have to compromise, i did, and  i have to compromise, that is life.

      2. 13.1.2
        Hazz

        Why do people expect men to date or even marry women they aren’t attracted to (like dating a woman who already has children of her own)? I am a single man and want children of my own. If I am going to spend decades of my life caring for children why would that be children of some other mans, when there are plenty of single non-mothers who I can respect, shower with love and have my own children with?

        1. jo

          I think you’re young. There are guys my age (47) who want to date, cause there isn’t so much choice, but I told one who was really nice: don’t be dumb and don’t get into this mess, find one without kids. If my ex moves, you can move too, cause we coparent, kids come first and you’d have nothing to say. No guy should follow his partners ex. Thats just crazy.

    2. 13.2
      RustyLH

      Sophie, you are 100% right.  But, at the same time, you should do things intelligently, or at least no the risks of your actions and choices.  Sadly, most of us do not put any thought into the risks and consequences of our actions, and then when things turn out badly for us, we act like victims.
      others are correct to point out obvious tends.  Ask yourself, who is likely to have a problem with your children?  A younger guy with no kids?  Or a guy with kids, and I will say younger, same age or older?
      As for patience, you have to take a close look at the what Evan has posted about making your decisions about these things..children, marriage…earlier in life.  Many women start reporting increasing difficulty getting dates once they pass 30, and feel invisible by 50.  In short, in this case, patience is not a virtue.  being diligent about finding a guy who is right for you and your children is a virtue…not acting immature as if the world is your oyster.  you have kids, and are getting older.  You are going to wake up one day and find that the best guys are taken, or no longer interested in you.  The world will no longer be your oyster.  Having no plan is planning to fail.
      You are the one in charge of what you do.  nobody can change that.  You decide who you will date and spend time with.  You decide when YOU wish to pursue something serious with, and whom YOU will pursue it with.
      What you don’t control are the men.  They decide who they will use for sex, and who they will actually fall in love with.  They choose who they will actually marry, so long as the other person also wants it.  They have their own agenda which is not yours.  Time is on their side, not yours.

      1. 13.2.1
        Julia

        Many women start reporting increasing difficulty getting dates once they pass 30, and feel invisible by 50. 

        When I was in my twenties, I had maybe 3 dates a year. When I was 30 and newly single, I could go out with 3 men A WEEK. Women over 30 are not worthless, or unattractive or whatever BS MRA types want to put out. I actually agree with Evan though. As a childless woman, I tried dating single dads, the kind who shared 50% custody. I always came second, I always became resentful and many of them felt they were finished having children. I think there are plenty of single dads in their 30s (I know, I dated them) but I would also push her towards dating a bit older. Not 50 year old men but men in their early-mid 40s.

        1. RustyLH

          Give the MRA crap a rest.  That info you quoted is not my info, that was info I got here.  I do not think 30 something women are worthless, nor do I think 40 or 50 something women are worthless.  That’s victim speak and it’s regurgitated by men wanting to lash out at women.  In another post, I noted that for me, being 50, I do not agree with the notion that a woman’s highest value is at 20, and less at 30, and even less at 40.  For me, it is actually just the opposite.  In fact, at 20 they have no value to me because they simply aren’t relationship material.
          Weirdly, I am getting most of the attention from 20 and 30 somethings.  My preference is an early 40’s Brazilian who owns her own home near Sao Paulo, with a very nice garden.  I find her to be extremely attractive.  Problem is, she prefers to stay there, and since I am in school for the next couple of years, that isn’t going to work short term.
          The 27 year old Brazilian ex-model is the same religion as me.  As a Brazilian Adventist, she has very very strong beliefs about marriage.  So while I am not putting much stock in it, if it did happen, that strong belief would allow me to not worry that she saw it as a short term solution.
          Same for a 37 yo Filipino nurse from Vancouver Canada.  Very strong beliefs regarding marriage.
          Yet my preference is the 41 year old Brazilian who is a devout Protestant Christian, but not a devout Protestant Christian Adventist.  She is, in my opinion, just as attractive as the other two.
          And now, a very cute, single blond that lives on my floor was flirting with me in a major way last night.  We’ve chatted in the lobby and elevators numerous times.  She has become increasingly open and flirty.  I have not asked her age and have not nailed it though when she has sunglasses on, I assumed late 20’s early 30’s.  Without, she looks younger.
          Last night, as I was approaching the building, I rounded the corner a block away from it, and immediately caught site of her with her dog.  She (the dog) was obviously done, but the girl waited for me to walk up to her and we exchanged greetings.  He dog is very shy and timid with everyone.  I made note that I would need to win her love with treats, and quickly detailed doing so with a friends two dogs that did not like anyone.  I told her how he was amused on one hand but kept calling them traitors as they followed me around and loved on me.
          She smiled and told me to bring treats to her apartment and her dog would definitely be a traitor.  OK…this isn’t rocket science.  She’s not looking for free treats for her dog.  She invited me to her apartment.  I’ll be buying dog treats the next time I go to the store.
          Here’s the thing.  Is it flattering to find a young twenty something attracted to me?  Absolutely, and I would expect anyone to feel the same.  But, I am also realistic.  I seriously doubt she would want marriage, or even a LTR.  At most, I would expect her to want a FWB relationship until she finds a more suitable LTR.
          I’m realistic enough to realize that most 20 somethings don’t want to marry  man past mid 30s, and some don’t even want a man more than a few years older than they are.  So I don’t go looking for 20 somethings.  I understand why the 27 and 37 year old Adventists are interested.  Both come from cultures where women regularly  marry, by choice, men 10 to 20 years older.  Also, being Adventists, it is like dating in a small town.  Thus the interest.
          The one that lives on my floor likely sees it as nothing more than a chance for companionship and sexual adventure with an older man to break up this dry spell.
          As for the OP, her problem by her description seems to be her kids, not her age or her looks.  I’ll address that in a post below.
          However, the reality is this.

      2. 13.2.2
        sandra

        Time is on no one`s side, period.  Men or women.  The only older men that do really well dating have lots of money and well-preserved looks.  The rest face the same dilemma as older women.  If the average  woman preferred much older men, they would not need coaxing by EMK or anyone else to consider older men.  Men do not age better.  It is just many  women will overlook appearance in favor of other qualities.  And if the man is much older, it is looks and financial security.  And since most women can at least feed and house themselves,  they expect physical attraction.  Which is why men have to start taking a reality check early on .  I have seen this first hand.
        As for the OP, I think her children come first.  A relationship may be a nice fantasy, but probably not the best idea..

        1. marymary

          Sandra

          one of the 20somethings at work was complaining that  some “old pervs” were hitting on her. I asked how old. She said,  “40s”.

          I’m in my forties, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
           

        2. RustyLH

          I find a lot of truth in this post but I will touch on one thing that I do not agree with, not completely.
          You, like all women seem to wear it as a badge of honor that you care about more things.  It’s not  badge of honor.  You are simply more picky, more critical, etc.. of other things that men are not critical of.  if we were to believe women, the only women getting married would be super models and movie stars, like Jessica Alba.  While we put an emphasis on looks, we don’t actually put any more emphasis on them than women do.  The OKcupid results showed that women are actually more critical of looks, but yes, since they are also critical of other things, they will give guys a chance that they find less attractive than their preference.  This is slowly changing as women become more and more financially independent.  It was the centuries of needing to rely on men for safety and security that caused these other preferences.  That need is disappearing.
          As polyamory becomes more acceptable, I see things changing in a very negative way.  The higher a man’s attractiveness, the more women he will have.  I really don’t think that is going to be an enjoyable society for anyone to live in…not really.   I know I would not want to live in it.  I think it is going to be a very ugly very selfish society.

        3. RustyLH

          @ Sandra
          Well, it is what it is.  There certainly are young women who despise older people.  If you were to be able to be a fly in the wall, you would likely learn that she doesn’t much like older women either, and would think it is equally creepy for a younger man to date an older woman.  She is, however, likely to become a Cougar in her older years, if her attitude remains this way.  She will then get her comeuppance.  While I am sure she will get some young men giving her what she wants, she will also get exactly what she is giving out.  She will ask a young man to dance, or try to flirt with him, and he will make it plain to her that he thinks she is a creepy Cougar.
          She might even go through her best years trying to attract a younger man only to strike out in this endeavor, only t find herself in a position, when she is 40 plus, where the only men serious about dating her are ten years older.  If she were open minded, this won’t bother her, but she doesn’t seem open minded at all.
          However, you could question her about the guy.  Maybe it wasn’t as much his age as he was just an unattractive, greasy character.

        4. Tim

          Actually older women do a lot better in the dating world vs older men.

        5. Lau_ra

          @marymary
          Well don’t get offended, 40somethings, yet to 20somethings you are more of the old people – thats a whole generation apart and parents of 20somethings are most likely just several years older than you are. Some in here say that 20somethings aren’t open enough and rational about their prospects enough – yet why need they be? In that age your choices are multiple, why consider someone twice older? So no need to be so perplexed about what’s been said by that 20something colleague – 40s is not actually old, yet in most cases too old *for someone in their 20s*.

        6. Raj

          I like good and healthy sex.

        7. Kate

          That’s like saying if you are married with children you should give up on intimacy, love, support and romance and sleep in different rooms because your focus should be on your children not your selfish, personal needs. O

      3. 13.2.3
        Tim

        Most men in the prime of their youth feel invisible to women. And here you are whining that women over 50 feel invisible.    

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @Tim

          Sadly, that is the truth. Most men are invisible to women until their late twenties, early thirties.

      4. 13.2.4
        Tom

        Rusty, well said. 40+ year old male, have been with a single mother for 3 years with one small child.  tried to make it work, but being fourth to a child, her family and friends is hair pulling.  

    3. 13.3
      Tim

      “Single fathers don’t face the same pressures”

      Yeah, single fathers who look better than 90% of men their age and have everything going in life.

      The average looking 35 yr old single mom does way better in the dating world than the average looking 35 yr old single dad.     

      1. 13.3.1
        sandra

        RustyLH,
        I am not sure why you really have it in for a woman the OP`s age who is not interested in significantly older men.  You seem to be absolutely certain  ( from what I can tell ( that if a young woman is not interested in much older men ( let`s say 15+ yrs or so) that she is doomed to couharhood.  I just don`t understand that conclusion.  While age disparate couples do marry, similar aged couples are far more common, and generally the norm.  This insistence you have that women accept MUCH older men or else, is just bizarre.  And I am sorry, but just because a woman does not find MUCH older man attractive, has no correlation that she is repulsed by older women.  None.  It is just a scare tactic on women. 
        BTW, I do think the OP should be more open-minded if she is serious about finding someone for the long-term.  It is her life, of course, but I believe the children come first.

        1. RustyLH

          Sandra,
          What are you talking about?  I don’t think she “MUST” date a much older man.  Maybe you should clean your glasses and reread my posts?  I said that was one option.  What I said in a nutshell is that this women, if we believe her self description, was at one time, a woman who could have had her pick in men.  the new reality for her is that this is no longer the case.  She has four kids.  That makes her less than appealing for the vast majority of men, even men she would have never considered an option.  It has nothing to do with fairness; there is nothing fair about the dating world.  As I said, she has options, but only she can determine if those options are something she is willing to accept.
          I also do not hold the opinion that women MUST accept much older men.  Nor do I hold the opinion that women MUST refuse to date younger men.  The opinion I do hold is that because men DO prefer younger women, and because men are more than willing to enter into sexual relationships with women they would never dream of marrying, that a woman who refuses to date older men, and only date younger men, is playing against the odds.  In short, if 30 yo woman has 3 short term relationships lasting about 3 years each, with younger men more than willing, she could see her 30’s pass her by with no LTR.  If in her 40’s she continues this, she should not be surprised if she is 50 with no LTR.
          I simply agree with Evan that while young, both men and women should get more serious about their LTR priorities.  Too many people act as if they have forever to find the right person.  I think we also agree that it is up to each individual, what they do, but it helps if you are realistic in your choices.  So it is the same for a man.  Going to hold out for a Playboy Playmate?  Don’t be surprised when you are a 60 year-old never-married man.

        2. sandra

          Yes, if a woman only dates younger men, then her prime years will be wasted, no doubt.  I was assuming the OP was interested in men her own age group.  But when someone insists women should consider older men, I assume they mean MUCH older, since a few years older is the norm.   Sorry, I wish there was more specific terminology for “older within a normal range” and ” much older.” 
           

    4. 13.4
      whitney

      Wow that’s inspirational but highly unrealistic! Women absolutely need to realize that having another mans child makes them far less attractive to attractive men their age with options! This is just reality! Think about it. Why would some dude want to raise another man’s child- isn’t that like voluntary cuckholdry? You can’t shame men for not signing up for that. Women should choose wisely who will father their children because after having children with another man it is significantly harder to find another man to date/mate with?  Though not impossible, she should follow Evans advice to give her the best chances rather than hope that men will suddenly change and find single moms super desirable for a relationship

  14. 14
    Brenda

    I wish I could talk to all single parents!   I’ve lived through your situation and my children are now in their 20’s.  My best advice would be to stop dating and focus on giving your undivided attention to your children.  This time is so precious.  Invest in yourself and your kids.  Pursue hobbies you enjoy.  Turn the phones and computers off and read a big thick book together, exercise, bake a pie, and start saving money if at all possible. Your kids are going to be grown and gone in a few very short years, and you may have to support yourself for the rest of your life.    
    There will ALWAYS be single, divorced, widowed people out there – always.  If you spend these years preoccupied with your love life, you’ll regret it.  I know so many men and women who would rather cut their legs off, than be on their own for any period of time.  The ones who desperately feel compelled to be in another relationship, will typically experience a repeat of the same unhealthy situation they had the first, second, third time.
    Do yourself and your kids a favor – focus on showing them how you are a WHOLE person and a WHOLE, in tact family just the way you are.  You are not “broken” or “defective.”  You and your kids will be SO much happier in the long run.  
    Kids are very aware which parent put them first, and which parent made their sex life the top priority.   If both parents love and put the kids first, they will grow up healthier than most of their friends from a two-parent “perfect” home.  Not saying this is you, but forcing kids to share their parent with the current lover is not fair to them.  When the relationship ends, they’re hurt, you’re hurt, and you will NEVER get back that time you lost.  You can be 100% mommy now, and 100% sexy lady after your kids are grown – Believe me, it’s worth the wait.  Plus you’ll be emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, ready to focus on your adult relationships.  
    Someone mentioned the Brady Bunch. In reality, the blended family thing is the worst for kids, especially at middle school age.  The thing about the Brady Bunch is Mike and Carol evidently never had to deal with six custody schedules because their exes were mysteriously missing, and Alice did all the cooking and cleaning.  It’s not reality.
     Who knows, if you put the stress of dating on the back burner, you could meet Mr. Wonderful at the ballgame this weekend!  If he’s truly a gentleman – he will care more about your relationship with your kids than how often you’re available for a late night booty call.  Good guys don’t make booty calls.   Mature men call you when the sun is shining and ask to spend quality time with you, because they truly want to get to know you.   The guy who thinks this is too much effort, is the wrong guy.   The kids shouldn’t be subjected to anyone you aren’t planning to marry – why should their little hearts be dragged through the mud?   Good guys want to help you, not use you.  
    I would also advise staying off dating sites – they’re shallow and toxic.   How sad to rob ourselves of one of the few wonderful pleasures in life – like love at first sight – seeing a knowing twinkle in the eyes, and the sense that you’ve known each other forever.  You don’t get that from thousands of meaningless profile pics.   When you feel a soul spark with someone you meet in person, you aren’t thinking oh, sorry, you’re a year out of my age limit – and it looks like your body type is  “average” – I’m going to have to pass.   Perhaps God is supposed to orchestrate the meeting at the right place and time, when He knows both people are ready for a healthy love.  

    1. 14.1
      starthrower68

      Brenda, here here!  You said it very well!

    2. 14.2
      RustyLH

      I agree with everything you said.  Especially that she actually can date, but raise the bar for the guys.  Be right up front that there will be no sex now or in the near future.  Seriously…she should say that.  A guy asks her out..she should be open and friendly.  Don’t come across as being rude and hard nosed.  Just smile pleasantly and say, “Honestly, I would enjoy going to dinner and a movie, but in all fairness, I want to let you know that I don’t sleep around.  So long as you don’t assume that dates mean sex, I would love to go out with you.”  As *shock* a good man, I would be very pleasantly surprised if a woman said that to me.  What he does or does know about her past relationships is of no consequence.  He must deal with who she is now, not who she was.  If a few dates later, he ties to negotiate it into a sexual relationship, she should simply be firm but pleasant.  If he says, “Don’t you like sex?”  She should say, “I absolutely love sex…I just don’t like it in uncommitted relationships.  No real feeling to it.  Just self gratification.  Sex is so much better when it involves love.  Is sex all you are really after?”  He would likely say no, or in some way try to state that it is just part of a relationship.  This is where she again just hits him with brutal honesty but does so in a pleasant and disarming way.  She does not have to be strong here.  She can be vulnerable.  It actually works better that way.  She simply lets him know that the problem is that guys are all to willing to give the illusion that a relationship is building…take the sex, and then when it starts to actually resemble a real relationship, they disappear.  She can simply say that this is very painful for her and she doesn’t want it anymore.  So she will no longer have sex with a man that is not worth that gift.  Only a man that sees her as worthy of being “his” will get that gift in the future.   She can basically say that the pain of being used outweighs the good feelings that sex brings.  Again, soft, truthful vulnerability is in my opinion the best way to discuss this.  Why?  It forces him to see her as a real person with real emotions, and real vulnerabilities.  In my opinion, only the worst kind of man could still push for sex after she has this talk in this manner.  A true gentleman will seek to be her knight in shining armor, if he cares that much about her, or at a minimum, will not feel good about using her and so he won’t.  He will likely say something to the effect that she is a sweet person but she has too many kids for him.  So the inevitable happens before she invests more of herself by having sex with him.
       
      I am convinced that these days women simply don’t understand how her vulnerability…truthful vulnerability, not manipulative vulnerability, actually brings out the best in men.

      1. 14.2.1
        Kiki

        Rusty,
        What you say sounds very meaningful and it is pretty much along the lines of what Evan preaches on this blog – kindly let the man know that you are not interested in random sex, and it will weed out the players.
        The problem with the letter writes is, in my opinion, not that she runs into players, but that there are objective reasons why men in her desired age group would not want to spend much effort on growing this relationship.  Whichever way she phrases her attitude about nsi sex, there is no way to negotiate with a man to overlook the responsibilities she would have as a single mother of four kids.

      2. 14.2.2
        amanda

        The problem with this approach is that it will also weed out the hot guys that she really wants. She might have to settle for someone average-alright in looks.

        1. JoeK

          Yes, she will have to settle for the men who want HER with her current situation. End of the world – she’ll have to settle for someone who’s not a model! End of the world!
          Why is mentioning the word “settling” so anathematic to women here? Smart people “settle” all the time, for all sorts of things. You don’t get everything you want, ever, why would you expect dating to be any different? Especially if you’re like most of us who don’t have a clue until our thirties or later.
          Thankfully Evan is splashing the cold water on our face to wake us up.

        2. RustyLH

          Amanda,
          Is the guy being “hot” all important?  Women claim that all of these other things are important, and yet as I have always said, for many women, not all, but for many women, it isn’t that looks aren’t just as important as they are for men, but that they simply have even more requirements.  For instance, if the woman is a 9 and she would never consider going below an 8, it doesn’t matter if he has all these other great qualities.  She’s not going to settle for a 6 or 7.  She wants the 8, 9 or 10, who also has all these other great qualities.
          Any “hot guy” who settles for her is giving up far more than she would be giving up if she settles for a not quite so hot guy.  Even the not so hot guy would be giving up a lot.
           

    3. 14.3
      siobhan

      Thankyou Brenda for your comment. Though i have felt a sense of deep grief (im not quite sure why as even though i have been attempting the dating thing i am quite happy and content with my life, there’s at things i need to change a bit but i dont feel a huge yearning for a relationship all the time) my decision, reading your comment was exactly what i needed to hear and iexactly what i need to do. I am blessed with 3 amazing daughters and from now on my focus is to be the best mother i can be. Time is so short and precious. I wish you were my mother lol

    4. 14.4
      France

      this resonated so much with me.’ I had to screen shot

  15. 15
    Kiki

    Cristina,
    It seems that you are very restricted in the free time that you are able to give to a partner. The greatest gift we give to each other, as human beings, in dating and relationship, is our time, and our undivided attention.  If you want to be at home at night, at the time to put your kids to bed, read fairy tales, and give them sweet good night kisses, you simply can not be available to be spending more and more time with a (potential) boyfriend, and have spontaneous magical nights together.
    You probably know that in order to have a full life (balancing family and career etc)  you need to be extremely well organized, and have schedules for everything, including for example for dates two evenings per week.  But that last thing would be very difficult to arrange with someone in the early stages of a relationship, because people prefer to get to know each other little by little and in a spontaneous rather than in a strictly planned manner.
    Evan is right that an older man who already has children and knows first hand about the responsibilities that come with them, can be understanding to your situation, and sympathetic to the need to plan dates in a manner that will kill all spontaneity. However, even older men with children will have little sympathy to your unavailability and to the fact that he and his needs will always come second after your kids. 
    As a personal note, if I were in your situation, I would be rather having uncommitted sex with men in my age group, rather than looking for a SERIOUS relationship with an older man.  I would postpone the serious relationship for when my kids grow up a (older teenage may be?), as there will likely be no shortage of older men at that time either :-).  Just my two cents.

    1. 15.1
      Chance

       I think there would be plenty of older fathers that would be sympathetic to her commitment to her children – certainly more so than a childless 34 Y/O.  

      1. 15.1.1
        Karen

        What if they don’t have the great looks and physique that she requires in men? 

        Its very easy for us women to develop high physical and sexual expectations of men because obtaining sex is so easy for us.. Even mediocre looking women in their late 30’s can easily get hot younger guys in bed. Its a big disappointment when the same kind of guys are no where to be seen when we require a little commitment.  

        1. Julia

          nice try troll “karen” you might want to change your gravatar before pretending to be a woman and spamming about all the sex average old women get from young hot studs.

        2. Anon

          Hi Julia, actually even if he had changed his gravatar a fool could tell this is a man masquerading as a woman. 

          A woman would never admit such an awkward reality in the words he has chosen!  

        3. Tim

          Women seem to have an ego problem with admitting that its easier for them to obtain no strings sex and they don’t need to be that attractive either.

        4. tamara

          @Tim: There’s no ego problem, most of us ladies know that it’s easy for most women–incl unattractive ones–to get NSA sex; since there are some very unfussy men around. (Joke: what’s a sl-t? A woman with the morals of a man, hah)
           
          I think Julia is just annoyed that ‘Karen’ is pretending to be a woman, when he’s clearly a guy. Btw, how come some of u can display avatars??

        5. Jenn

          Tim, what’s so great about being able to attract NSA sex when what we want is a great relationship? I want a man who wants the whole package, not just the wrapping.

        6. RustyLH

          Have you ever noticed Jenn, that people, men included, always want what they don’t have but often don’t appreciate what they do have.  Take a very sexy mother of 4, and she will likely complain that men only want sex from her.  Take a very overweight mother of 4 and she will likely complain that she hasn’t had sex in a very long time, or that she has to go through very long dry spells.

        7. Jenn

          Rusty,
          Thanks for that enlightening viewpoint. I’ll now be sure to remember to fall down on my knees and thank God for the next man who propositions me for a one night stand on OkCupid.

        8. Adam

          You are an extremely smart and perceptive woman Karen.

          I think that women, are in the end very confused. They have been lied to by society and their friends about the reality of not only men, but also the dating market.

          As Evan and others have pointed out over the years, women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment. What so many women fail to understand is just because a woman can get a super hot guy into bed, it doesn’t mean that he is going to commit to her or even considers her girlfriend material. Guys are sexually attracted to a wide variety of women. While women consider the top 20% of men sexually desirable, men consider the top 60% of women sexually desirable. So yes, you women can VERY, VERY, easily get hot guys into bed. This is NO great accomplishment for any woman. But the problem, is that only a guy that is of a similar attraction level to her will COMMIT to her. In other words, a woman who is a 6 in attractiveness can get into bed a guy who is a 9, but he isn’t going to commit to her, whereas a guy who is another 6 WILL commit to her. But because a woman who is a 6 can get a 9 into bed, she thinks she can get a 9 to commit to her which is not the case.

          Getting a man into bed for a woman, is about as much effort as it takes for me to introduce myself to a beautiful woman and become her friend. Nearly no effort at all. Just because I am friends with a beautiful woman doesn’t mean she is going to sleep with me. Just because a hot guy is sleeping with a woman, doesn’t mean that he is going to commit to her.

  16. 16
    Jen

    I’m a single mother to 1 and dealt with a lot of the same. I completely understand it though and am now happily hooked to a man 8 years my senior with 2 kids if his own. 

    4 kids?! As much as I understand this dilemma I wouldn’t date something with 4 kids either. There’s just not enough room left for me at that point. I’m not here to satisfy someone else’s needs at the expense of my own, that’s not a relationship.

    To Evan’s point, Cristina is ready to give up, she says. He’s provided her with another option. She doesn’t have to take it but if she still wants a relationship then adjusting her pool of potential suitors is probably a wise choice. If an older man who’s on the same page as her is “settling” then yes, giving up may be a good idea. 

    Evan! Please make these comment boxes more mobile friendly! 

  17. 17
    Karl R

    Sophie said: (#2)
    “I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest Christina has to change her type just to clinch someone.”

     Dating isn’t fair. Therefore, it’s a waste of time complaining about it being unfair. Good advice shows people how to make that unfairness work in their favor.

    Most people (men and women) prefer to date younger. If you’re willing to date older, you can often get someone who is a much better catch than the younger people who are willing to date you.

    Sophie said: (#13)
    “If she happens to prefer guys younger than her, no amount of telling her to look for someone older is going to change what she really wants and likes.”

    When I was dating, I preferred women around my age. But there are a lot of exceptional women who were significantly older/younger. It was also worth dating them, because it opened up additional opportunities.

    Sophie said: (#2)
    “That is like urging someone to settle which no-one should do.”

    Evan and I urge people to compromise, which is something everyone should do.

    Evan wanted a wife who was several years younger than him (and Jewish, and liberal). He ended up marrying someone who was a few years older than him (and Catholic, and conservative). There were trade-offs that accompanied that decision, but he ended up with a great wife because of it.

    I wanted a woman around my age. I ended up dating women who ranged from 11 years younger to 16 years older. I married the woman who is 16 years older, and I ended up with a great wife because of it.

    Sophie said: (#13)
    “I am totally realistic.”

    Evan and I are being more realistic. We’re giving the advice that really worked when we followed it.

    It’s a waste of time to chase people who aren’t interested in you. It’s far more effective to find a great catch among the people who are interested in you.

    Treifalicious asked: (#13.1)
    “What if she just is not attracted to men 10-15 years older than her? Why do people expect women to date and even marry men they aren’t attracted to just to get themselves married? 

    Take a look at the video clip in the URL below:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qETPFyxyfM

    That’s a video of my wife and I dancing. At the time the video was taken, I was 40, my wife was 56. Does my wife look unattractive? Does my wife look 56?

    I’m sure Christina can find an attractive divorcee in his mid-to-late 40s. They exist. She doesn’t have to find the average man that age attractive. She just has to find some that she thinks are attractive.

    Christina said: (original letter)
    “Even if I really take my time getting to know someone before we become intimate… it seems that sex is all they continue to want.

    I don’t know about you, but I was a lot less picky about my sex partners than I was about the women I entered committed relationships with. With a sex partner, I just needed to like her for a day or so. With a girlfriend, I needed to like her for several month or more. With my wife, I need to like her for the rest of our lives.

    Of the people who want sex with you, only a small percentage will want a serious relationship. There’s no point getting frustrated about reality. Dating is hard. Dating with four young kids is harder. If you let yourself get easily frustrated, then your best strategy is to avoid dating.

    1. 17.1
      marymary

      Karl
      love this video and your story

      OP
      there are many attractive men in their 40s , and it’s only about 10 years older, or even less. But try to avoid the ones who are STILL not looking to settle down.  

    2. 17.2
      Kiki

      Karl,
      you and your wife make a very beautiful couple. It would never cross my mind that she is older by you, let alone by 16 years.

  18. 18
    Sunflower

    Depends on what she wants out of life…….a stable, loving relationship with a man who could be a potential step father to her children and life partner for herself, or fun with younger men?  Hmmm, might be nice for a while, but would definitely get old.  Life is full of choices.  I agree with Evan (as pretty much always), she needs to broaden her spectrum and choose older men to date.  A man who has children of his own and knows the terrain.

  19. 19
    Sophie

    Brenda is spot-on and, actually, for the record, I have stopped dating because my priority is my child. This despite a single man 5 years my junior and childless happy to start a long-term relationship with me butw turning him down because the connection wasn’t strong (see Christina: there are exceptions). The other reason I have stopped looking is because, frankly dating is far too full of preconceptions and madness and I am far happier. I actually think online dating has ruined everything as it has led to far more choice and people disposing of people far more readily. Anyway, that’s a debate for another day. 

    Clearly a lot of entrenched views and unconscious bias on this thread so just want to finish off my contribution that has appeared to have exorcised so many by wishing Christina the best of luck in the future and hope that you get the relationship YOU want. 

    1. 19.1
      starthrower68

      I just want to add, for what it’s worth, that if she can juggle dating and raising up good, well-adjusted kids, then I do wish her the best of luck in finding what she’s looking for.  I still agree with Evan that an older guy who has his own kids would probably be a pleasant surprise in terms of being a better match.  Dating as a single parent is not for the faint of heart.  If you like someone but the kids don’t, then the kids are probably going to win that one, at least while they’re young enough and still at home.  I have dated, intermittently, but then I found myself wanting to compartmentalize and keep kids separate from whom I was dating if it got beyond the first date.   I think I felt a sense of guilt that I didn’t feel if I say, hung out with my friends when I wasn’t with the kids.  I have found it a good time in my life to do some of the things I did not do before I became a wife and mother, like go back to school.   I don’t point this out to make the OP feel like she should or shouldn’t date.  Only to tell her that while no, dating is by no means fair, there are different but just as good options worth considering in dating or outside of dating.

  20. 20
    Evan Marc Katz

    Your advice, Sophie, is nothing more than “do what I did”. You stopped dating so the OP should as well. If you read her post, you can tell she doesn’t want to stop dating. She just wants to find a commitment-oriented man. I told her which types of men would be more inclined to commit to her – and it’s not 34-year-old never married types, for the most part. What part of my take do you disagree with? Do you think that – based on what Cristina wrote – she wants to take the next 15 years off of love like Brenda? Or that she might want to find a like-minded family man who happens to also be divorced?

    1. 20.1
      starthrower68

      I will hand it to the OP; she’s got more stamina than I do. I’ve raised 2 good boys who are fine young men, but now have a defiant, rebellious tween I’m raising. She requires every ounce of mental and emotional energy I have and it’s exhausting. And I am pretty sure that there is no man who will go near that drama.

      1. 20.1.1
        RustyLH

        I always advice men to think twice if she has girls.  There are huge risks there for a man outside of the normal drama.

        1. starthrower68

          And Rusty, if he takes your advice, then that’s a win for me.  The most important job I have ever done and will ever do is bringing up members of the next generation.  Men will come and go and without little consequence.  But doing my due diligence as a parent has ramifications for generations.

        2. RustyLH

          I don’t disagree with that either.  Not an easy job bringing up kids.   If your daughter is that much of a handful, imagine the danger to a man if he becomes involved.  Many men have had false accusations made against them. It’s not a pretty picture.

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