All The Guys on Dating Apps Just Want to Get Laid. What Should I Do?

All The Guys on Dating Apps Just Want to Get Laid. What Should I Do?
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On one of your articles, you make the statement: “My wife and I ‘hung out’ once a week for four weeks at the beginning of our relationship. I didn’t take her on a traditional “date” for over a month. She never wanted to know where we were headed, never called me to check in, and never did anything except respond affirmatively when I reached out.”

Would you please mind elaborating on “hang out”? It may sound daft, but for those of us who struggle (especially in the NYC area) may I ask what you were doing when hanging out? Taking a walk in the park? Drinking coffee at Starbucks? At a bar with friends playing pool? Watching Netflix at each other’s house? The reason I ask this is because… well… sex. If you do not mind sharing how long did you and your wife wait to have sex until after the traditional dating occurred? I know it’s a rather personal question but it actually does matter and it is tied to “hanging out” from the average dater’s perspective.

Let me explain my experience and concern….for some people (and many men) who want to “Netflix and chill” they are sending the Tinder industry standard message that they want a “FWB.” Almost every time I have been asked for this the conversation quickly turns into “oh and you can stay over” and I quickly let them know that I am not interested in sex this soon and they quickly disappear, which is fine but also a waste of my time. (and this is on every platform – Luxy/Eharmony/Match/ Bumble/ Tinder….You get the point).

There is 1 single guy to 5 single women in NYC and when you stack the odds up to add in the age of a person it gets harder. Tinder is geared to play on the psychology of meeting men’s short term needs and in as such even if they are commitment minded they will always default to meet their short-term needs – it’s just how the psychology of human mating works. Now that being said, for many women who will not have sex until they are in a solid relationship – they may not feel comfortable with that or may feel pressured into sex when they are not ready for it with the “hang out” scenario.

It might be helpful to actually get some advice because many women could interpret this the wrong way. And it seems that as your wife seems to have taken the right path with a guy who was a (self-identified) serial dater and made it work – you said it not me – been reading your blogs for years, have all your books etc….

What might be an interesting experiment – is if you make a profile as a woman sometime and see how badly we get treated out there – no matter how great our pics are. No matter how good our profile is, no matter how laid back we appear – I think Tinder and Bumble are unfairly geared towards meeting the short-term mating cycle of men and of course if that is where all the men are the women will go there.

Catherine

Hoo-boy, Catherine. Strap yourself in, because we’re going for a ride!

Your friendly neighborhood dating coach is going to tackle everything you wrote – and, in the process, separate fact from fiction and logic from emotion – so that you can start to approach dating with a healthier and more effective mindset.

But first, let’s validate your experience. Yes, it’s a jungle out there. Yes, New York is unique. Yes, men look for sex. Yes, Tinder is not designed with women’s relationship needs in mind.

Yes, it’s a jungle out there. Yes, New York is unique. Yes, men look for sex.

However, that doesn’t mean everything you wrote is true, nor does it mean that there aren’t ways to date successfully in NYC.

Let’s address four misunderstandings that you and I seem to have up front:

  1. The 1 single guy to 5 single women thing? Not true. Not even close. Please stop repeating it and believing in it. It’s unhealthy and disempowering, as if the universe was completely stacked against you. It’s not.
  2. I have written repeatedly how dating apps are terrible because they bring out the instant gratification side of both men and women. On this, we agree.
  3. I have written about how men look for sex and find love, and how women should make men wait for commitment before having sex. On this we agree.
  4. I’ve written about someone who created a fake profile to see what women experience. And my TEDx talk referenced how terrible guys are at online dating and gives a screenshot of one poor clients’ inbox. The idea that, after 16 years of doing this, I don’t know what it’s like for women? C’mon, give me some credit.

So, let’s get this straight:

We agree that dating apps are shallow, awful for communication, and brings out the worst in men because it allows them to text incessantly, push for sex, and move onto the next woman without a second thought.

We agree that dating apps make for a terrible experience for women.

We agree that women should not have sex with a guy if they’re not comfortable with the status of their relationship.

You just want to know two things:

  1. When I slept with my wife.
  2. What to do in spite of the above.

Believe it or not, both questions have the same exact answer.

In Love U, I outline, step by step, how to break free from the tyranny of dating apps, texting, friends with benefits, and the sinking (and false) feeling that it’s impossible to meet a quality guy for a long-term relationship.

 

Understand, a guy who is open to Netflix and chill is not necessarily averse to love. I know I wasn’t. It’s your job to suss out the players early on to see who’s serious about you. If you don’t know how to do that – or feel it’s impossible give the tools at your disposal – that’s what I’m here for during our weekly coaching calls.

As to when I slept with my wife, that’s a story I’ll tell you when we’re on the phone – not here in public. But I will tell you this: I was the one who held out, not her.

Hope to see you in class next week, Catherine.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Jess

    To the OP, I know from personal experience that if a guy is genuinely interested and respects you, then he would be OK with not having sex until YOU are comfortable. You are not missing out on anything with the men who refuse to wait a bit, so it’s a blessing that they disappear quickly.

    1. 1.1
      Paula

      Jess I completely agree with you however I also know first-hand how discouraging even this good advice can be when it seems like there isn’t a man on the planet who will wait.

    1. 2.1
      Lurking

      I agree with the lopsided ratio of men to women- and that number doesn’t include the men who will never be good prospects: homosexuals, criminals, commitment phobes, or live in mom’s basement types. Yikes, reality is worse than the statistics show. Get out of NYC. You did it, lived there, now it is off the bucket list.

  2. 3
    ScottH

    “whoa is me” says the innocent woman who is completely oblivious to the plight of men on dating sites. Seriously….

    1. 3.1
      ezamuzed

      Speak for yourself, many men have no problems at all on dating sites.

      1. 3.1.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @ezamuzed

        You would be surprised at how small the pool of men who experience little on the way of rejection on dating sites is when compared to the male online population as a whole. I know that whenever I exchanged notes with others guy who were online when I was online, my experience was radically different from what they endured. I am speaking of American men when I lay out what I see as the key to being successful online:

        At least 5’10” (usually 5’11” or taller)
        Above average attractiveness for one’s age (i.e., generally attractive to most women within one’s per-age group)
        Graduate degree (M.S./M.A or doctorate)
        Successful professionally
        Above average fitness for one’s age group with a preference for men with a mesomorph build (i.e., small waist, broad shoulders, inverted triangle build)
        Nice hands (as crazy as it sounds)
        Ability to build rapport quickly and make women feel comfortable

        American guys who meet all of the above requirements experience little difficulty when it comes to meeting women online; however, then again, they have no problem meeting women offline. The reality is that at least 80% of American men cannot check off these boxes; therefore, they have to work hard to meet women online with more than few experiencing almost a vertical climb.

        1. Seth

          @YAG
          I kinda think you worded your post wrong.
          I personally check off most of the boxes you listed,but I have crap luck when it comes to dating apps.
          Still working up the nerve and stuff to approach women in person and see if I do better.

          Seems I attract women older than me and out of shape/overweight.
          Even some of the few that are younger than me, are overweight.

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Seth

          If you truly meet all of the attributes I outlined, then you have to be doing something wrong. I willing to bet that your profile is killing you. Women can be every bit as shallow as men when it comes to looks, especially online; therefore, it is important that your photos accurately portray your image. If you do not have a good hair stylist (i.e., a stylist that will work with your head and face shape while styling your hair), then you need to find one. While a lot of women prefer clean-shaven men, facial hair is usually okay if it is kept short and well-groomed (well-groomed stubble with one’s neck clean shaven is usually the best way to go with facial hair). The goal should be to present a solid masculine, attractive, and approachable image. There is an adage that attraction + comfort = seduction. I have found this adage to be true more often than not.

          In the end, if women are not looking at you when you go out, then you have an image problem. If you have all of the above listed attributes, then lack of attention can be fixed. There is nothing that kills a man more when he is out than closed body language. You should never cross your arms or hold your drink up against your chest, as that is defensive body language and confident men do not exhibit defensive body language. Women are drawn to confidence like bees to honey. Confident men are not afraid of rejection. It is the price of being successful with women.

        3. Seth

          @YAG,
          I think the pics I have on my profile portray what I do and enjoy.
          I have outdoor pics (hiking)
          I do have a beard currently, so that could be a turn off to most women. But that is just over the winter.
          I guess I will go back and look over things, and see what I can do….cause you are most likely right with what you say.

        4. ezamused

          @YAG

          I’m not surprised at all as we talked about a few times, we have experienced much of the same things dating post divorce.

          The thing is that many men just sit back and complain like ScottH does here. Instead he should be working on becoming the best ScottH he can be and then the women will be knocking down his door. The only thing that cannot be improved is the height but I know anecdotally this can be overcome. One of my best friends is in his late 40s, 5’7″ without a college degree and he does very well with woman. This in a region of the country that is very educated and has far more men than women. He is in decent shape, charismatic, fun, openly sexual in a non creepy way and speaks his mind and the women just eat it up.

        5. Yet Another Guy

          @ezamuzed

          My list of attributes pertain more to meeting women online than in person. Shorter guys definitely do better in person than they do online for the simple reason that they are not getting weeded out before they have the opportunity to show themselves. Shorter men get filtered online.

          What women do not realize is that when they list a preferred height range on Match, it limits the matches they receive. They do not have to go as far as screening for height in a search in order to avoid shorter men. Match is making men below their preferred minimum height basically invisible. That is why guys shorter than 5’10” tend to lie about their height online. The same thing applies to men who are taller than a woman’s preferred upper height bound. The most common height range I saw when I was on Match was 5’10” to 6’2″. That 4″ range would be fine if 6’0″ was the average male height in the United States because height is a normal distribution. However, the apex of the height parabola is 5’9″ (average American male height) with a standard deviation of around 2″, which means that 50% of the American Male population is taller than 5’7″ on the money and shorter than 5’11” on the money. Twenty-five percent of the male population is shorter than 5’7″ on the money and 25% of the population is at least 5’11” on the money. I have had average height (5’4″) women tell me that they need a guy who is at least 5’11” because they like to wear heels. A 5’4″ woman is only 5’7″ in 3″ heels and a guy who is 5’7″ is 5’8″ in street shoes because they average male dress shoe has a 1″ heel. So, instead of having 75% of the male population available for dates, these women artificially limit their date pool to 25% of the male population based on one attribute.

  3. 4
    MilkyMae

    “I quickly let them know that I am not interested in sex this soon”. This is what you say when you are not attracted to someone. It also comes across as a little smug. Just say “I can’t stay” or “my neighbor’s dog needs to be fed”. She is on a “hangout date” so you don’t have make grand declarations. The real problem is she can’t find a man she is attracted to.

    1. 4.1
      Sandra

      ” Almost every time I have been asked for this the conversation quickly turns into “oh and you can stay over” and I quickly let them know that I am not interested in sex this soon and they quickly disappear,”

      It appears she is describing a pre-date conversation (likely via text), not an actual date. And this happens a lot on dating apps. Why are you assuming she just does not find anyone attractive? She never even mentions that.

      1. 4.1.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @MilkyMae

        “Why are you assuming she just does not find anyone attractive?”

        Because making a man wait is something that women do when they are not strongly physically attracted. We are not talking about a friend zone-level guy. We are talking about a guy who has LTR potential, but does not invoke deep sexual desire. Any women who tells herself otherwise is in denial. Women have the ability to use compensating (comfort) attributes to make up for lack of strong physical arousal; otherwise, the “cad” and “dad” mating strategies would not exist. Women make dads (comfort/long-term) wait. They do not make cads (arousal/short-term) wait. As a guy who spent most of his single adult life in cad mode almost by accident, I can honestly say that women throw the rule book out of the window when they meet a man that they consider to be high arousal.

        1. Sandra

          “Because making a man wait is something that women do wh”
          n they are not strongly physically attracted.’
          Again, it appears the LW is not referring to a man “man whom she finds attractive but wants to make him wait” scenario. She is referring to the sloppy, careless, and rude approach to dating many men on apps are taking. A pre-first date or even post first coffee or drink date invitation to “come over and watch Netflix” is not a welcome invitation. Not most of the time. On occassion, it could work, but the LW is referring to having more positive and productive dating app experiences even before the first meeting.
          Your philosophy of either “she’s hot for me or I’m in the friend zone” is more applicable after a couple of successful dates that either move on to something physical or remain stagnant while she decides if she can tolerate you.

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Sandra

          “Your philosophy of either “she’s hot for me or I’m in the friend zone” is more applicable after a couple of successful dates that either move on to something physical or remain stagnant while she decides if she can tolerate you.”

          Au contraire! You are just fooling yourself. If a woman does not want to have sex with man on the first date, then arousal is very low and he should bolt. That does mean she should act upon that desire, but if a woman needs several dates to suss a guy out, then she is selecting him for his compensating attributes. No guy wants to be selected for his compensating attributes.

          The reality is that all guys date with the goal of getting laid ( the younger the man, the more getting laid dominates his thoughts). Guys do not need an emotional bond to enjoy sex. Evan’s assertion that men look for sex and find love is absolutely true. Any women who believes otherwise is clueless about men.

          Getting a man who is truly attracted to a woman to commit is not that difficult. All a woman needs to do is to be fun, honest, and not play games with sex. I have yet to hear a guy say that he is not going to ask a woman out again because spending time with her was too much fun. One is more likely to hear a guy say, “That chick is smoking hot, but she is too moody/high maintenance for me.” It does not matter how hot a woman is physically. If she is not fun, second dates are usually not going to happen, at least not with experienced men who have options. The “couple of successful dates” litmus test is an absolutely surefire way to ensure that man places a woman at the end of his date queue. The only men who will put up with that crap are those who lack options and women are generally not attracted to men who lack options.

        3. Sandra

          @YAG
          ” That does mean she should act upon that desire, but if a woman needs several dates to suss a guy out, then she is selecting him for his compensating attributes. No guy wants to be selected for his compensating attributes.”
          With all due respect YAG, I said the same thing and you are turning it into something else. Of course most men want someone fun who desires them, it is just that is not the subject matter the LW brought up. Again, the LW’s complaint and concern is that men on dating apps with whom she is likely just texting are suggesting going to his place in lieu of an actual date or meeting. Even is she finds him smoking hot, he has to give her more than a bin of garbage to work with. I never suggested or even insinuated that men should stick around while she figures out if she likes him. Maybe my English skills need upgrading, but apparently I am not communicating this very well.
          BTW, I do not care if a woman wants to go home with a guy on first date. Not my business. Fine with me. I prefer the high arousal myself, which likely explains why I remain single.
          I just don’t think that is what the LW was asking.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Sandra

          The LW appears to be clueless about men. That’s all. She is living in world that never existed. Men absolutely want to hookup. They have always wanted to hookup (we used to call hookups “one-night stands” back in the club-centric days). That is what drives men to date and join dating sites. There is no such thing as a commitment minded man, at least not at first. The male mind does not work that way.

          In the end, my girlfriend and I never went on a real date until we were together for several months, that is, if we do not count meeting for a drink on our meet-and-greet. I went to her house and stayed over on the second date. We became “domestic” very quickly. Even though we could afford to eat at any restaurant we so desired, we hung out and cooked meals together instead going out to eat. We have been a couple for year. We moved in together a couple of months ago. If she had made me wait for several weeks and do the “traditional dating” thing, I would have been gone. I was a hardcore serial dater when I was on the dating sites. In fact, my girlfriend takes pride in landing what she refers to as the most difficult fish to catch in the pond. Why was she successful when over one hundred other women were not? It was because being with her was so much fun that I was no longer interested in playing the dating game.

        5. Jeremy

          LOL. YAG, sometimes I read your comments and doubt that I exist.

        6. Evan Marc Katz

          Everybody assumes that he/she is the norm and represents more people than we do.

        7. Jeremy

          Yes. I do recall your ” I am bigfoot” comment when I wrote that the “nice guy with balls” doesn’t exist in nature. All it takes is one black swan to prove that not all swans are white…and to suspect that more than one black swan exists, though we might not have seen them in our pond.

        8. jo

          Jeremy, Evan – you both and I are in agreement here. Not only is he not describing all men accurately, he absolutely got it wrong where women’s behaviour is concerned, by attempting to generalise about all women.

        9. Yet Another Guy

          @Jeremy

          “LOL. YAG, sometimes I read your comments and doubt that I exist.”

          You definitely exist. 🙂 However, I would say from my experience that you are bit of an outlier, at least in my circle. I and all of my male friends and family members are definitely at the other end of the spectrum. That does not mean that all of my friends and family members were successful in their attempts to hookup with women. It just means that none of them were driven to date with the goal of establishing a long-term relationship. They just wanted to have fun and get laid. Their long-term relationships were kind of a side effect of looking for sex. Heck, Elvin Bishop wrote a song about men looking for sex and finding love.

          “Fooled Around and Feel in Love”

          I must have been through about a million girls
          I’d love ’em and I’d leave ’em alone
          I didn’t care how much they cried, no sir
          Their tears left me cold as a stone

          But then I fooled around and fell in love
          I fooled around and fell in love
          I fooled around and fell in love
          I fooled around and fell in love

          It used to be when I’d see a girl that I liked
          I’d get out my book and write down her name
          But when the grass got a little greener on the other side
          I’d just tear out that page

          But then I fooled around and fell in love
          I fooled around and fell in love, since I met you baby
          I fooled around and fell in love
          I fooled around and fell in love

          Free on my own, that’s the way I used to be
          But since I met you baby, love’s got a hold on me

          (Fooled around and fell in love) whoo, it’s got ahold on me now, yeah
          (Fooled around and fell in love) I can’t let go of you baby
          (Fooled around and fell in love) I can’t stop loving you now
          (Fooled around and fell in love) hey!
          ‘Cause I fooled around, I fooled around, I fooled around…
          Fooled around and fell in love…

        10. Yet Another Guy

          @jo

          No, I absolutely got it right. How many women have you managed to get into bed? I rest my case. Women routinely say one thing and then do a completely different thing. This behavior is referred to as anti-slut defense (ASD) on the PUA websites. Sure, there are women who have to vet guys to whom they are seriously physically attracted, but they are about as rare as guys like Jeremy. My experience and that of every guy I know says that a woman will sleep with a man to whom she is seriously attracted quickly, frequently on the first date. If a woman is taking the wait and see approach to sex, a guy can almost be assured that she is just not that into him physically. He is attractive enough to date, but not physically desirable enough to generate a high state of arousal. We are all human beings with physical needs. Sure, we can learn to temper these needs with experience, but you can be assured that the rule book goes out the door when a woman is hot enough for a man that her lady parts are in a constant state of high arousal when she is around him. It is just that the percentage of high arousal men in the population is much smaller than the percentage of high comfort men. Once again, Google “cads dads Draper, ” and you will discover quite bit of research into this topic. Show me a guy who is good with women who makes it past age thirty with only short-term relationships to his name, and will show you a man who does not have to wait for sex because he is high arousal. These are the guys that most guys envy.

        11. jo

          yag, I’m not writing it from a man’s perspective, but a woman’s. I simply made the case that you weren’t right about grouping all women together in one behaviour, because I definitely don’t fit the mold you describe. And if I don’t, probably some other women don’t as well, because I make no claims to being unique. I am just an average jo.

          It’s been interesting to observe how some on here feel free to generalise about nearly 4 billion people on the planet.

        12. Yet Another Guy

          @jo

          I am not inferring that you are unicorn. However, the percentage of the female population that dates like you is much smaller than you would be led to believe. How many times have we had the make guys in whom a woman is interested wait while hooking up with guys who are not LTR material discussion? What we have here is a dad versus cad distinction. Women will continue to hookup with cads while searching for a suitable dad. It is an arousal versus comfort thing. Women prefer marriage to sex with dads while desiring the opposite with cads.

  4. 5
    Chris

    I wonder how many women have done the reverse experiment of making a male profile? By many accounts unless you are very handsome it is a disheartening experience, with very few results. I wonder if the more relationship minded men soon burn out, leaving mostly amoral sleazebags behind.

    1. 5.1
      Seth

      I would like to see the results of that.
      Using similar pics that most guys use…not the professional looking pics that some experiments I have seen use in the past.

  5. 6
    Seth

    Reading the post…I strongly disagree with her and her view of things. Maybe in NYC it is far different from where I am.
    On any of the various apps, I never go into meeting a woman with the intention of getting her in bed. I much rather meet her and see what she is like and if I am even interested in going further with her.
    I tend to be very picky and a lot of women tend to hide how they truly look on these apps. Either using filters or taking pics with certain angles. So when you meet them in person, its like “Damn, that is now how you looked on your profile.”
    I swiped and matched with one person on tinder, we talked, met up and had a date…had a good time. But she was attracted to me….we would go get dinner and do things at times…but I never looked for anything more with her than just friends….she would push for more. But I never did anything more.
    I think one thing that turned me off initially with her, was that she listed her age on the app to be about 3 or 5 years younger than she actually was.
    But there are some of us guys out here that are actually looking for more than just a quick lay.
    Or maybe I am just getting old.

  6. 7
    Michelle

    This always come down to a few things. #1 Personal marketability; hot, under 30, successful, is the top of the food chain for dating across every age range; they have more choices, overloaded inboxes and options than those who don’t meet that criteria. They will do well in any dating medium and can swipe left all day long. If you are not in this category, that’s ok, majority of the planet is with you, but you do need to use all the tools in your arsenal to stand out. #2 Confidence; you teach people how to treat you; even on the apps, you are still dealing with human nature, though agree with Evan the apps are high on hookup culture so if not your thing, stay off the medium. Ladies, you don’t have time to train all those men how to behave and too many ladies already said yes and crying in their cosmo, so waste of time if interested in more than sex. #3 Maximize your strengths. Good hair, great job, funny, play to them and rock them. Dating is very much a sales and marketing game in many ways. Don’t go after the hot 28 year blonde bombshell hedge fund manager if you are a sweet, but fun slightly plump barista at Starbucks. If you are a single mom, a 7 in the looks dept. and in middle management, the hot 28 year old who entrepreneur who just landed $15M in VC funding is not going to care about what a “great person you are.” Be realistic, know your marketability and target market, maximize your personal branding, get in shape, and rock your assets as they are. You will find your match. The dating apps and online dating sites skew this and make it seem possible you can date anyone you want without heeding these maxims because there are so many choices. You can’t.

    1. 7.1
      Sandra

      Sorry, but none of your advice is relevant to the OP’s letter. You are assuming she stretching way out of her league. And why should she ( or anyone) give up on dating apps as they are now the primary medium? Admittedly, they should not be the only medium.
      HOWEVER, you hit the nail on the head with this one,
      “The dating apps and online dating sites skew this and make it seem possible you can date anyone you want without heeding these maxims because there are so many choices. You can’t.” A more crystal clear truth could not be told.

      1. 7.1.1
        Michelle

        Sandra,

        Yes, see where you are going with that. My comment was more for dating in general vs. OP’s letter. Didn’t mean to imply she was stretching out of her league. However, point #2 is relevant, people will treat you the way you teach them to treat you. I wouldn’t say give up on dating apps, but be realistic about what they offer (and don’t) and go accordingly. They are heavily weighted to insta gratification hookup culture. I personally beleive you can’t rely on just dating sites and apps to find a good partner, you have to take honest look at yourself and what you have to offer and where you stand in the mix then make the most of it. There are so many people who are alone and unhappy because they are just “too picky” or “the hearts wants what it wants” when really they are not in touch with their own place in the dating food chain and options.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @Michelle

          Here is a maxim that applies to all men. When a man believes that a woman is the best that he can obtain, he will do his best to lock her down. Furthermore, a woman’s status means less than her beauty. A literate, smoking hot HB9+ secretary has a higher probability of snagging the hedge fund manager than a less attractive professional peer, regardless of how well she keeps herself. Why? Because heterosexual men do not select a mate based on her status. I do not know how many times men have mention it on this blog, but status (a.k.a. ranking within a social hierarchy) is a female mate selection primal trigger. Women factor status into mate selection because it is primal instinct. Men do not have this instinct because men have been expected to be providers since we were living in caves. It is the reason why women are hypergamous and men are not.

        2. sylvana

          YAG,

          Yes, we get it. All not super-hot women might as well remove themselves from the dating pool now. They’ll never have anything to offer a man, they hold zero value, and better be aware of it, and will be lucky to get whatever scraps they can *eyeroll*. I see you’re back to your old games.

          And the biggest reason women are hypergamous nowadays, especially the ones who can provide for themselves, is straight up men’s egos. Not to mention let’s examine this whole cave man thing. Men might have been the hunters, but women were the gatherers (and everything else). Meaning women provided as much as men did. It doesn’t matter whether you provide through gathering or hunting, either way you’re providing.

          Look at every other female in nature. In very, very few species (none of them primates, like humans), the male actually provides. And even in those species, the male does so only while the female protects the offspring.

          Anthropological, archaeological and evolutionary psychological evidence suggests that most prehistoric societies were relatively egalitarian. The male role of being a provider didn’t start until much, much later. And became more and more the norm as women were more and more oppressed.

  7. 8
    PatriciaSmith

    Relationships are wonderful things, they allow us to have someone who we can love and support and allows us to feel loved and supported.

  8. 9
    bvg

    @YAG

    “literate, smoking hot HB9+ secretary has a higher probability of snagging the hedge fund manager than a less attractive professional peer, regardless of how well she keeps herself”

    Although a hot secretary can marry the hedge fund manager; generally this is not the case. People tend to stick within their own class / social hierarchy (aka assortative mating – individuals of the same education or class marry others who are the same). Moving up the socio-economic ladder has become increasingly difficult in the US and much of the western world. There is likely a third variable beyond evolutionary psychology (men want beauty, women want resources) to better explain the behavior.

    1. 9.1
      Yet Another Guys

      @bvg

      Yes, it is called a significant increase in cost of living coupled with more women being college educated than in generations past.

  9. 10
    bvg

    “Yes, it is called a significant increase in cost of living coupled with more women being college educated than in generations past.”

    so does it mean that economics (cost of living, college education hence earnings) are more important than youth/beauty as a selection criteria for men? This seems to counter the original point made by YAG that,

    “…heterosexual men do not select a mate based on her status…”

    I presume (perhaps inaccurately) that college education confers a higher status and salary for both men and women.

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