How To Guarantee A Guy Calls You After Sex
Hi Evan,
To explain why a great date doesn’t necessarily mean anything to men, you wrote: “Instead of thinking in terms of black and white (He likes me/he doesn’t like me), think in terms of grey. Isn’t it possible that a guy can be out, enjoying your company, being thoughtful, telling you you’re beautiful, kissing you at the end of the night, and never call you again?”
I guess it’s possible, theoretically. I am not a man, so it’s difficult for me to understand. But why would a guy do that? For example, if I like a guy, and I had a good time on a date, I’d like to see him again. I think about it in 2nd grade terms, “I like a person, I would like to see them again. I don’t like a person, I don’t want to see them again” That applies to all people – men, women, romantic or platonic.
You also wrote: “All you can do as a woman is not make the date “mean” something, because 50% of the time, as you can probably see, it doesn’t mean a thing to him…”
Yeah, I think that’s an assumption. I, personally, cannot SEE that it doesn’t mean a thing to him, like I can’t differentiate. When do things start meaning to a man?
So what distinguishes when a guy goes on a date, has a good time, but is just “in the moment, and doesn’t call me back, versus a guy who had a good time with me and then calls me back? Is this “in the moment” feeling premeditated, i.e. the guy knows this date isn’t going to be serious, before the date occurs? Or does the “in the moment” feeling occur during the process of the date, which is dependent on the woman and on a date itself? So tell me about your experiences. How do you approach this dating, “in the moment” situtation? I am just trying to understand the psyche.
Maybe it’s just me, but all interactions with people mean something to me. I feel that’s the respect I should give to another person. And if they don’t mean anything to me, then it’s because I don’t want to interact with that person.
Any clarification of this idea would be very helpful.
Jean
Dear Jean,
I’m going to drop the dating coach bit for a second and just be a guy.
When I was dating prolifically, I’d be going out with two or three women at a time. And every single time I went out, I did two things:
- I tried to be the best date I possibly could. I’d call, email, express interest, plan a good date, show up on time, etc.
- I tried to make her want me really badly. I’d listen, I’d lean in, I’d flirt, I’d compliment her.
In short, I wanted every single date to feel good about me, so I would have the option of going out with her again. Sometimes, we’d hug goodbye. Other times, we’d drunkenly go back to her place. But no matter what, I was looking to keep my options open, have fun, and sometimes get a little action. And yes, I was always in pursuit of a long-term relationship. I just didn’t want to deprive myself entirely of sexual activity until I fell in love.
By the way, whether you agree or not, I considered myself a NICE guy. I slept with very few people, I never said, “I love you” and I rarely kept a physical relationship going beyond a few weeks, if I felt it was headed nowhere.
To me, I felt like I was acting with integrity. To a woman who woke up next to me after a first date and thought that we were “in a relationship”, I can see how she felt differently….
This is the bargain we strike when we’re dating.
My friend, dating coach and matchmaker, Julie Ferman, talks about what a strange world we live in where we are more comfortable sleeping with a stranger than we are TALKING about what it means to sleep together. And it’s kind of true, isn’t it? Better to hop in bed and hope we can handle the emotional consequences than it is to have a weird conversation about commitment, right?
So if you really want to understand men, Jean, chew on this one for awhile:
Men look for sex and find love.
Women look for love and find sex.
You would never sleep with someone you weren’t interested in.
We will. Gladly.
Until you GET this, until you truly EMBRACE the fact that we think with our penises and allow our brains to catch up weeks later, you’re ALWAYS going to be surprised at the “disconnect” between men’s words and their actions.
Our words are designed to charm you and make you feel comfortable.
Our actions reveal whether there’s any deeper intentions behind our words.
So again, the only way you can tell if a guy is sincere is by WHAT KIND OF EFFORT HE MAKES FOR YOU AFTER YOU GO OUT.
Not if he told you he loves you, not if he slept with you.
Only if he calls you the next day to make another date can you be really sure.
And if you want to be positive that a guy won’t sleep with you unless he’s serious about you, then don’t sleep with him until he’s given you a commitment. You’ll have a lot less sex, but a lot less heartbreak as well.
Evan, stop being so freaking reductive. The “you” in that situation could be the guy I just broke up with, who started seeing a future with me even though we had discussed that our relationship was what it was (friendship, sex, and yes, love, but not a future), and the “men” in that situation could be me. Actually, that’s being reductive. I don’t look for sex and find love or look for love and find sex. I look for whatever I can get, and get whatever end up with. I have sex just because I want to sometimes, and sometimes I’ll fall in love with that stranger. I become friends with people and lay in wait for years because I love them (or just want them). My longest relationship (2 years) was with a man who I was casually sleeping with, and we both accidentally fell in love with each other. This took 6 months for us to admit, because it shocked us so much. You need to start using some qualifiers in your columns: MOST women.
Yes, MOST women, Emma.
Yes, I , a woman, have definitely looked for sex and then found love in my relationships (although not all of them). These generalizations don’t do anyone any good.
Yes, they do, for women who have trouble understanding why men sleep with them even though they don’t care/want to commit.
I agree with your article my ex after nine months complained that I didn’t want to have sex with him every time we spent time so it’s no surprise he is now married to a girl that will give him what he wants every time she never says anything. He didn’t love me he was listening to he’s dick then he grew to love the girl that pandered to he’s dicks needs. He even told me that everything I did for him didn’t matter as I would have done it for anyone. Really angry about not being in charge and not enough sex to a point where nothing else I ever did mattered.
I keep my legs shut and that way if a guy Keeps seeing me or talking to me until he declares commitment I keep my legs shut. I don’t know how sex seems to be so crucial to men . I can spend months without it and I don’t feel sick or anything
You are the exception. Dating advice like this is not intended for the exceptions, it’s (very) helpful to the average woman. And yes *most* women seek love and commitment, then sex naturally follows, and most men look to get laid and unexpectedly fall in love. But there are some men who look for love (they tend to be more “Beta”), and there are some women who look for sex (more masculine energy). Nothing wrong with any of these types, but this general advice is not intended for you (the exception to the rule/minority).
I agree with Evan about sex affecting men’s behaviour, but I think you should also consider how the expectancy of being the pursuer will cause some men to act keener then we might be in the early stages of a relationship.
On the whole we’re expected to initiate contact, ask women out and follow up after a good date. I don’t mind this, but it does mean there isn’t much space for contemplation if you’re sitting on the fence.
In my experience, women tend to ask themselves if a relationship has potential after one or two dates, whereas a man will probably wait for a few dates and possibly sex before being similarily far-sighted
This post comes at a very interesting time for me. I have been on about 6 dates with this guy over the past month. While we have hooked up, I have held back from sleeping with him. The big thing that is holding me back is that I don’t want to give it up only to have my guy pull a disappearing act.
We’ve talked about sleeping together and I told him that I wasn’t ready yet for a few reasons. One being what I just stated above. But another is that I don’t want to start having certain expectations once it does happen. I would want to see him more often that the twice a week dates we’ve been having. I would want him to do more than just text me almost every day. I would want to feel secure that this isn’t going to be just a casual thing.
I don’t want to want all of those things, so that’s why I’ve chosen to wait. I think he understands, but we shall see. Like Evan states, I am going to judge my guy on his actions and not by what he says. All of his “I miss you” texts mean nothing if he’s not actually making plans to see me.
The best way to get a guy to call you back after you have had sex with him is to leave a message on his machine that you would like to work on your blowjob technique and would he help.
Calling back is not the goal per se is it? The goal is to for the guy to call back because he is truly interested in you for an LTR.
For that I don’t have an answer. You can’t make it happen. If he is truly into you he will call. If not don’t force it.
lol rope them in with the promise or more sexual fun nice trick but only works to a very small limits .
You can’t build a relationship based on that
Actually, the sexual luring would work with me, at least after having had sex the first time. In order to keep an upper hand in the traditional relationship I desire, I would not want to be the first one contacting her. Any contact whatever it is, would allow the lines of communication to flow. I can then take over the leadership from there
hadleypaige….more that 60% of women are uninformed on bedroom techniques……most of my fomer partners, have been torture…she can practice other places….
Jean wrote: “Maybe it’s just me, but all interactions with people mean something to me. I feel that’s the respect I should give to another person. And if they don’t mean anything to me, then it’s because I don’t want to interact with that person.”
I completely disagree. To me, a sign of respect is to not be so judgemental. A “you’re in or you’re out” decision made after a couple dates or sex seems harsh, not respectful.
My hunch is that Jean is hoping to avoid the unknowing anxiety of not knowing where she stands. So if you’re the type of person who is uncomfortable with “maybe” then you’ve got your answer. Unless it’s a clearcut yes, then take it as a no.
I think it’s possible to be absolutely respectful, genuine, and enjoy dating (including sex) without it having to be an LTR. It’s not fair to say than anything less is manipulation/deceit/disrespect. Lighten up! That, or don’t sleep with people who aren’t already committed to you.
What do you make of men who make the second date before you part after the first, and then make all kinds of excuses to not keep that second date? I can’t tell you how long that happened to me before I started disallowing second date requests until he went home, thought about it, and decided he really wanted to go out wiht me. Doesn’t that blow the theory of how quickly he follows up for another date out the window? Or is is just me?
Shari. I used to try and arrange dates at the end of the evening. I stopped because the answer was ALWAYS yes, even though many backed out before the agreed date. I appreciate this. People need time to mull over a date in private. People don’t like rejecting a stranger face to face. People like to keep their options open.
Far from contradicting Evan’s theory, so experience actually supports it. You can’t follow up on a date, whilst your still on the date. Its nice if someone wants to arrange plans at the end of a date, but i’d take any promises with a hefty grain of salt until their confirmed at least 24 hours later.
I agree with most of what you wrote here…but there are exceptions. I’m a man and I definitely do not sleep with someone I’m not interested in. I don’t ever sleep around and I’m generally looking for love first, not sex. I know it’s rare to find a guy who feels that way but nonetheless…here I am…so we are out here…but I would agree that I’m probably in the 1 percentile on that one.
Adam –
Let’s say you have had several dates with a woman, enjoyed her company, and had sex with her probably a bit sooner than you had originally planned.
As a man in that 1 percentile range, what would your next step be? (i.e. calling/text/making plans for another date.)
I think really good guys would text you after or ring you. Or they would advise you to slow down before anything happens. I had a guy ask to leave my house when we where alone because he was starting to think about sex then he left. I respected that at least he didn’t just go for it.
Tendai,
..just wondering why you didn’t keep this man that “at least he didn’t just go for it”…..
Yea Adam! I wish more men were like you!
you sound like a miracle . I know in general guys are not going to turn away from sex opportunities . I’ve only encountered six guys in my whole life that didn’t try for sex and genuinely wanted to know me.
Maybe you really respect women after all women do get quite devastated if a guy that seemed nice doesn’t call after she decided to ignore the rules and give him pleasure.
…”after she decided to ignore the rules…”
Congratulations, Tendai. You have just summed up your lack of success in one phrase. Rules? Life, love and sex is not a damn rulebook! That’s why we call it an adventure! There are only two certainties; we are all born, and we will all die; nothing else is guaranteed-NOTHING!
People don’t come with guarantees, and neither do relationships. There is no reward without risk, no gain without the possibility of loss. Consider the turtle; he can pull in his legs, pull in his head, pull in his tail, and close his shell up tight…and sit there in the dark, immobile, unable to see where he’s trying to go, much less get there; or, he can open his shell, stick his head and neck out, extend his legs, and swim or walk to reach the objective, however slowly, and at some risk of being hurt. Then again, the turtle in his shell, all closed up, is not so totally safe, for an eagle may come along, pick him up and drop him on a rock… in which case, he dies without having lived at all!
Now, it is true, that we expect men to be bold, and daring; and women to be more cautious and risk averse; but I will also tell you that in my 68 years on this planet, all the people I have known who lived life to the fullest, and got the most from it, were the ones who were willing to take a chance, get knocked down, get hurt, get discouraged…and get up and do it again, and again. True, a woman can get away with timidity more than a man can…but the very best of them don’t try; they understand that great passion carries with it the prospect of great pain…and great joy.
You speak as if women have a monopoly on emotional pain and vulnerability; this is not so. The man who invests himself passionately in a woman, runs the same risk of being hurt you do; the man who cares enough to be open to love when it comes along puts his own emotional vulnerability on the line, as much as you do.
I think it is a great shame, that so many men use caring as a bargaining chip, to get sex, just as I think it a shame that so many women use sex as a bargaining chip, to get commitment. Both misuse a great gift, I think. A man stifles his best instincts for kindness and empathy; a woman gives up potential ecstasy; and both lose.
There is, of course, a downside to being bold and daring; the world is full of weak naysayers, quick to say “I told you so!” and call someone else a fool when they fail taking a risk that the timid, hidebound to convention critic will not dare. The frightened rabbit, crouching trembling in its form, finds a perverse validation of its own cowardice in seeing the soaring eagle get its wings clipped.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Evan have rules? And isn’t one of them for women don’t sleep with someone you aren’t in a monogamous relationship with? And isn’t the reason for that because of exactly what Tendai stated, that men often will happily have sex with you and then never call again?
I think you might be being a bit hard on Tendai there.
Callie,
The problem with “rules” is that rules assume that every situation and every new person you meet is all the same. It seems to me, that life doesn’t work that way. Take the assumption (and that’s exactly what it is, an assumption), that “men will often happily have sex with you, and never call you again.” True, some men will do that, but the guy who does, is NOT someone you’d want to have stay in your life in the first place, now is he? On the other hand, a man who genuinely likes and respects women will also bed you, but only if he cares enough to want you to have as amazing a time with him, as he has with you, whether that lasts three weeks, three months, or thirty years (and there’s never going to be a guarantee as to which it’s going to be). You could walk out the door tomorrow, and get hit by a truck; so could he. Either of you could get sick, and never be well again; you might grow together, in time, or grow apart; the only thing certain, in life, is uncertainty. One thing I’ve learned, as I’ve re-examined my life and direction, is that all we really have, is now. Yesterday’s gone. None of us are promised a tomorrow, either to hope for, or to dread.
I’m not suggesting that anyone make thoughtless choices; I’m suggesting that you know yourself enough, to trust yourself to take intelligent risks, when your gut tells you it’s ok, without congratulating yourself when it goes right, or beating yourself up when it goes wrong, and without relying on some arbitrary “rule”.
I think we like “rules” because we think they make it easier; it always feels safer and easier to follow the conventional wisdom even when it’s foolish, or doesn’t apply in the situation; gives us a ready made excuse (or at least an explanation) for failure; something besides we just guessed wrong, or miscalculated. We all have fears; some of them are real, some just imagined. We’re afraid of death, or physical harm; we’re afraid of family or social disapproval, of the judgment of our peers. Some fears are real, some exist primarily (or only) in our imagination. There’s a funny thing about fear, though; when you’re too busy focused on what you want to do, and need to do in the moment, there’s just no time to be afraid. It happens with soldiers in combat; I’ve seen it, and experienced it. It also happens when you’re so into giving, and enjoying, with someone, right here, right now, that you don’t have time to think about what you are or aren’t going to get from them in return later. I’ve experienced that too, and not just with sex.
Everybody wants a guarantee; wan’t that the title of this thread? A woman wants a guarantee, that the guy who sleeps with her tonight, won’t forget her tomorrow. A guy wants a guarantee, that the woman he invests some time and money and hope in dating for a month isn’t going to drop him tomorrow. Well, people aren’t a product, made to specification, and engineered for an expected service life. We want things predictable, we want to feel in control, even when we’re not; we want other people to do what we want and expect, even if that’s not best for them or us; even when all we really control is our own actions and attitude.
So I choose to dare enough to not relate to woman by rules, whether those rules are Evan’s or the “PUA “Rules of the Game”. I’ll talk to anybody, date any woman I feel attracted to, and if she’s ready, and if I care enough to try to make her experience with me as good or better than mine with her, without expecting anything more in return, then I’ll have sex with her. What I won’t do, is lie, or make any promises I don’t know I can keep, in the process.
I’m not going to quote it here, Callie, but read Kipling’s poem “If”. Then re-read it. It’s advice to a young man, but I think it’s pretty good advice for a woman too.
Actually I’m not a fan of “rules” myself, Buck, but I just thought it was interesting on a site that has several you got quite so indignant specifically towards a woman just following the rules as the site here suggested, even going so far as to tell her that was the reason for her lack of success. I guess I just thought you agreed with Evan on such things. I guess I was wrong. Nonetheless, I dunno, it doesn’t sit well to me to berate a woman for essentially saying exactly what Evan has said in the past on a site that encourages such “rules”.
And thanks for the recommendation, I’m good, I don’t actually need any dating advice right now, never followed the rules and did just fine for myself.
(it’s seriously so fascinating to me here that the second you have empathy for someone else others assume you’re actually speaking about yourself. Like the times I’ve defended women who aren’t stereotypically good looking, or the other times I defended women who need a lot of time before getting physical with men, or in this case a woman using the rules as she’s been told to. Each time I get told that I’m must just be like the woman I’m defending, when I have yet to be. It’s like people can’t fathom that someone could come to the defence of someone who wasn’t just like them. Fascinating stuff)
@ Callie,
Wow, just wow. You read a lot more into that than I intended to put there.
There was no intent to “berate” ANYONE, not Tendai, and not you. I was trying to illustrate a point, that life is too short, and the good moments in it too rare, to live it in slavish conformity to some supposed “rules” instead of following one’s own heart and mind in each situation. I tried, (I thought) to inspire and uplift, not to condemn and degrade; I see that both the intent and the message have been lost, and further that an attempt to explicate what I have come to believe and why I advocated what I did in my original was taken as a personal attack instead.
I have a great deal of admiration for what Evan is attempting to do here; there is much to be said for the idea of both genders trying to relate to each other, as we are, not as we wish we might be. However, I feel no obligation to agree with him, (or anyone else) in every particular, and on this point, I do not. Simple as that. I’m sorry you took this as “indignant”, patronizing, or an attempt to pick a fight; it was not; merely an attempt to express a point of view. However, I do believe that what I advocated in both the original post and the follow-on is sound, and I stand by it.
I appreciate your explanation and understand now better your intention. Maybe as a word of advice I could suggest in future you not tell a woman that you know exactly why she’s unsuccessful in her dating life (we actually don’t know if she even is at all), that she thinks that women alone have a monopoly on emotional pain, and basically call her a coward and compare her to a frightened rabbit. I get you moved off to speak more generally, but she was your jumping off place and thus ultimately ends up being where your words also land.
To inspire you need to also be generous, assume the best in people, not the worst. Something to keep in mind for next time.
Callie, a few additional thoughts.
I’m not “indignant” at Tendai’s attitude; why should I be? I don’t know her or date her, so nothing she says or does hurts me, or ever can. I do feel a bit bad for her though, because it seems to me, that she not only got hurt by a guy or guys who slept with her, then dropped her (that’s not her fault); she’s continuing to let the experience steal joy she might have now (and that is her fault). Her whole tone, as I read it is, “I got hurt, so now I’m going to make sure I don’t get used/hurt by a man ever again, even if I hurt myself now by dwelling on it”. To me, that’s pretty much like the guy who invested his time money and energy in dating a woman, hoping for a regular girlfriend, sex, validation, or an ongoing relationship, and didn’t get it; so now he decides he’s not going to “get used” ever again, and so resents making an investment with the next woman, unless he has some sort of “guarantee” as to the outcome. (I’ve heard this one here, repeatedly, and once upon a time, I thought a little like that myself). He won’t get hurt…and chances are he won’t get anything else, either. I already said that; I thought it was pretty clear I wasn’t picking on Tendai, or women in general. This fixation on outcome is not a “woman problem”, it’s a people problem; but I guess you didn’t read that part.
I assumed NOTHING about you; you projected that attitude on me, (like I’ve seen you project it on other men here, incidentally). I’ve seen enough of your content before to know that you always rise to the defense of another woman at the first hint of what you see as a male attack of any kind, real or imagined. That’s a sensitivity of yours, and it’s fine; just acknowledge that it makes you a bit “quick on the trigger” as I think you showed in this instance. That’s your issue, I have no obligation to tiptoe around it, and I’m going to insist that you own it, because I won’t. Just so you know, I’m still not here to win your (or anyone else’s) approval. I’m here to discuss, provoke thought, and learn, not blow sunshine up your skirt, or anyone else’s. I’ve dished out some tough love to men here too, and I won’t stop that either. You like some of what I say lately; that’s fine; you don’t like some of it, that’s fine too. Just because I change as I grow, doesn’t mean everybody here, you included, is going to agree with all of what I think or say, and that’s ok too. I don’t fear your criticism, and I’m not going to muzzle myself or run and hide from tough questions to avoid it, nor will I apologize for not toeing the party line here, whatever that is. I don’t say that to be mean, or hostile; I say it in the same spirit of self-assertion you make comments in.
Beautifully put.
JimmyE – I think I could agree with what you said about rejection in context to those things that happened to me, but I wasn’t the one asking them, and they weren’t the ones saying “yes” then backing out one me. They were the ones asking me. My conclusion is that, at that time, I was their best option for next Saturday night – or whenever the date may have been. But then a better option came to them and they traded up. Quite a few of these guys who broke second dates before they happened would contact me a few weeks later and ask for that second date again. I didn’t say yes, just agreed with whatever their reason had been for breaking the second date – you’re right, there is no chemistry, there is no spark, I didn’t think about you constantly while we were apart – or whatever.
In my deduction I blame the Internet for this and not a gender, or even personality type. There are too many options and some people – not going to qualify this to guys or girls – don’t want to tie themselves to this person who seems okay, when someone else comes around who might be better.
Hey Adam-
Where do you live?
I went on a “great date” after some marathon phone conversations with this guy. We hit it off great on the phone, so we were excited to meet each other, and we seemed to hit it off great in person, too. We did not sleep together that night, though we certainly fooled around quite a bit, and knew we both wanted each other. He called the next day, and 2 days after that. On that 2nd phone call, we didn’t make plans for the weekend (it was only Monday) but I just (wrongly, apparently) assumed it was understood we would be together that next weekend. When we got off the phone he said we’d speak during that week. I never heard from him again! I would have been much more prepared if I hadn’t heard from him after the night we went out, but c’mon, guys, why 2 more phone calls and then the vaporizing act? He still goes online, I have seen him. I did take that one personally at first, but over the course of the last 2 weeks came to realize it has nothing to do with me at all and everything to do with his issues. Still, it is frustrating.
Better to know right away, rather then several months into it.
Mel,
Why don’t you text him a nice greeting?
Maybe he needs a little reinforcement from you. We’re all adults here. If you get the chance, depending on what he says, just say what you want!
Post back and say what happens. I’d be very interested.
One date is like nothing to a man so if I was you ignore this incident and go back online enjoy yourself forget him he’s probably not looking for anything serious and after you didn’t put out on date one he knows you’re a good girl and is hunting for an easy lay.
If I just want sex, I have sex. If I want a LTR , I hold off on the sex until I feel confident we are going somewhere. At least that’s the new leaf I’m turning over! This is after being dumped with no warning 8 weeks into a relationship with someone I met online— and who I saw every weekend- and talked to a lot …I realized that I’m just sick of making myself that vulnerable before I even know the person properly.. This means less sex , but less annoyance and heartbreak, and, lets face it, less random squalor too! I’m 12 weeks or so into the new regime, lets see how it goes!
I am on board with what you’re calling your new regime. I met a guy online who called me every day for over a month and we talked for hours every conversation. Our first date was nice and he was the perfect gentleman. A little fooling around but nothing much. The 2nd time we were together after being apart for a month (he lives in another state and travels constantly for work), I invited him into town to stay at my place, and well yes, had sex and I thought everything was going well. He broke it to me the next morning that his plans changed and he was going to head out early which turned out to be that evening (Saturday) rather than the following morning (Sunday) as was our original plan. Said it was a family event. I got really mad. My gut gut told me it wasn’t true and I felt like he was going to see someone else and in addition was furious that he didn’t want to stay the night. I told him off and showed him a side of me that wasn’t nice. He asked if we could spend the remainder of the day together and I told him No, that he better leave right then. So he did. And I haven’t heard from him with the exception of one e-mail exchange defending himself that it was “not a one-nighter”. I don’t know why he put so much effort in for over a month to wind up staying less than 2 days with me when we had originally planned for the whole weekend. I too am tired of being vulnerable when I don’t know these people. It is a recipe for heartbreak. I would rather have no sex and give myself a shot at a Long Term Relationship. I feel like I should have learned this by now!
In some cases it doesn’t matter how long you hold out abstain from sex some guys will patiently wait and then still not call or disappear. I learned over the years to ask questions up front. Most guys reveal their true intentions within 2 weeks. Once they do you must not go against what you believe. There are times when I just want to casual date. No strings attached . It depends on my mood and the situation.
I think some of you are underestimating most men. Sure there will always be the odd sleaze bag who is only after sex, but the majority of decent guys view sex as a bonus to a relationship, not the be all and end all.
im not underestimating men I’ve come across six decent guys in like thirteen years of my dating life and some stuck around behaving ok long as they got sex and believed they where in charge . Then the rest sorry to say really arseholes I remember I refused to have sex with an ex after he said something horrible to me I wasn’t in the mood and that week I broke it off as I didn’t want to be intimidated or frightened that I couldn’t say no then there was time when I was told by a male former friend if I opened my legs people would be more willing to help me out when I’m stressed going sorry 80% of men are nice depending on sex, I can’t trust them anymore,
Tendai,
..an older man no longer needs sex, otherwise, as for young men, a large portion of a mans brain is built for sex, much larger than what is found in the female brain….sorry to break the news..
I have to appreciate the brutal honesty of Evan’s response. Evan, I recognize that you’ve changed and I think by publishing the truth you’re doing a great service.
Apparently there are a few girls capable of what Evan says guys do, but my guess is only a very very few, and half of those girls are lying to themselves. That’s what makes the whole idea so successful. There may actually only be a smallish portion of men who act this way, but they are quite active and are a real factor in the prolific dating scene of the 21st century. I happen to think there are plenty of guys who don’t think that just dating for the sake of sexual activity is okay if it’s going to hurt someone’s feelings… they just don’t need to date as often because they actually want to get to know that first awesome girl they take out. This is really important to point out, because otherwise a girl could come away from this post feeling pretty bleak about the goodness of most men.
What Evan is saying is that on one hand you have girls, and sometimes guys too, who are having a fabulous time on a date because they are so excited that they’ve finally met someone who’s smart, funny, polite, sexy, a good listener, and who would be a great person to have around in life; while on the other hand you have some guys (and a very very few girls) who are having just as much of a fabulous time, and seem to be just as giddy, for the simple reason that they see a decent likelihood of having sex, maybe even that night. Apparently the likelihood of having sex is so intoxicating that the mere thought makes everything that happens that evening just delightful. These guys tell themselves that they are not being shallow because if the girl puts out for a few months without expecting to hear from him very often, he is reserving the right eventually to have feelings for her – this is called the “grey” area. This is also called “just being a guy.”
Part of me can’t decide if I – a single girl looking for a real connection – really want to know this. The next time I’m out with an attractive guy who is just effortlessly beaming at every word I say, I’ll have the insider’s knowledge not to take this necessarily as a special moment in my life. Sure, it could be that he feels he’s found his new best friend. It could also be that he’s just sublimely psyched to get laid. If the prospect is that all-consuming, then I guess I can see why it would take no pretending at all to display such excitement.
Evan mentions that guys and girls seem to be having a lot more sex with strangers. Call me crazy, but that doesn’t seem like such a good thing. I think there are a lot of fair reasons for it – girls are more liberated and there’s less stigma for a woman to be sexually active (and amen to that). Also, people are waiting much longer to get married, which means a lot more time to figure out what they’re looking for in and out of bed. It also means a lot more time and a lot more women with which men can practice the art of the delightfully meaningless date. I just don’t think many women have caught up with that idea yet – after all, the pill has only been around for about 50 years. Before then, we couldn’t afford to take the risk of falling for meaningless delight. That’s nice that now we can control the physical risks of sex with someone who’s on the way out the door – but we still need to account for the emotional risks, which are much more real for women than men (read up on oxytocin, girls). Maybe men would have to be more grounded in what they expect out of a date if the likelihood of sex with no strings wasn’t so high, and if women would wise up and get back to the practice of not hooking up with guys they might fall for unless they’ve gotten some commitment (in other words, Evan’s readership needs to skyrocket). This doesn’t mean undoing the feminist movement and saying no to sex, it just means taking 30 seconds to clarify that neither of the two involved will be seeing other people.
Meanwhile, I think it would be an impressive next step in the evolutionary process if these sex-addicted guys would leave their caves and join modern men who see women as fellow modern human beings and not just heartless pairs of boobs. And to the nice guys who get this already: stop high-fiving your buddy who just bagged the nice cute girl who adores him. He’s a prick. You know you don’t want to be him. Maybe you should tell him so.
Great post!
Terrific post Colette! I agree with you 110%, as a clinical psychologist and as a single woman in her 30’s attempting to navigate the dating scene for quite some time now. I wholeheartedly agree with you that many of the women out there who’ve “learned” how to have meaningless sex with no strings attached are actually paying a price for it emotionally (and sometimes physically as well). I am not judging them at all, as I have been there myself. And I hear about the price of “sexual freedom” in depth in therapy sessions with young women. It makes me wonder: Why should the ability to be detached enough to have meaningless sex with men you may never see again be a goal for the modern woman? It almost feels like women as a group have embraced the “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em” mentality. I just don’t think it’s wise for women to try to join that camp, and try to beat emotionally detached men, or men who are just not ready yet for a mature relationship, at this particular game. Shouldn’t we be encouraging men (through our behavior) to raise their standards for behavior as a group, rather than say that we can be as careless with ourselves and others as some men are? (Some men, not all men). It seems to me that women are better off protecting themselves from these kinds of men as best they can. While there’s no foolproof way of doing this that’s effective in 100% of situations, one of the best, most effective ways women can protect their hearts (and their bodies from disease and unwanted pregnancies) is to wait to have sex. Think about it: what kind of world would this be if more people waited to have sex? Sex is a beautiful and powerful thing, but it can be very destructive when it’s not respected and entered into with some thought (for oneself and for the other person).
You mix up commitment with exclusivity. not meeting other people is not commitment it is exclusivity, going into an LTR is commitment.
I can understand that for many people it comes as a package, but we have not anymore a one size fits all society (more of a “how do you want it customized”).
Look sometimes women can have sex with no feeling involved to the person they are having sex with, and a woman can have sex with someone because of feelings of love and emotion. I was one of those women who wanted to wait until I was married to have sex – I had two serious boyfriends without ever doubting that and we never went that far. In the 3rd relationship, we were serious and neither of us had had sex before and talked about it beforehand. I always think that if you can’t talk about it, you aren’t ready to do it. I felt ready and did it – only to find out from him months later that he only began dating me for that reason. It didnt matter to me at that point, that his feelings had evolved and he did love me and want to be with me, his initial intention in dating me was simply to get laid. He knew how important it was to me, how big of a step it was for me, and yet he still told me this fact. What was the point of that? We ended up still having a long term and fulfilling relationship emotionally, but after i found that out, our sex life was never the same and mostly functional. To keep this rambling story shorter, I did eventually break it off and it took me a year to get over it – but sex became a thing connectes soley with those feelings and him and I need to end that in my head. So I met a incredibly hot guy in town on vacation and had instant chemistry with him, and ended up having sex with him, making him my second. I don’t regret it the least and never saw him after that night – and I dont have negative feelings attached to it – only happiness that sex could finally be a positive experience for me. Sometimes a one night stand is what the doctor ordered.
I think concented sex is ok. Not every guy is commitment material but if you agree and are honest to each other it’s ok. Stop the sister Mary Margaret the Virgin business we are in 2016
tendai,
“stop the sister Mary Margaret the virgin business”……you are funny…Hollywood is always hiring good comedians…
posts #15 & 16#
..good posts, my applause!…
I always say if you want a realtionship cool and if you don’t move on… I will do the same if I’m interested in a guy and he acts like he is not ready for a relationship. We can’t wait for a men to decide what they want…
Someone’s been dragged through the dirt quite a few times with that response. Seems you’ve been used and abused.
Keep to yourself
Collete #15 writes: ” if women would wise up and get back to the practice of not hooking up with guys they might fall for unless they’ve gotten some commitment. . . This doesn’t mean undoing the feminist movement and saying no to sex, it just means taking 30 seconds to clarify that neither of the two involved will be seeing other people. ”
While this information may be wise to obtain for women seeking an LTR & an efficient way to get there, my suspicion is that this “30 second clarification” raised on a first date would lead in to a significant percentages of first dates also being the last date; Or if “clarified” prior to acceptance of a first date, would lead to a cancellation of the first date in a significant percentage of cases. I suspect that in this modern dating environment where women go out with men who picked them up; or have casually met, that women will just have to put the time in to find out what that man is truly like and run those risks (or go back to introductions from trusted friends, relatives and associates).
I don’t think relationships are better after premarital sex… Premarital sex is adultry…because adultry affects your relationship in the future… You should try not to concentrate The relationship on sex much at all…in the end relationships hold on to what you’ve built from the relationship…you don’t need permarital sex to assure your relationship just as it seems that you need to be reassured by a stupid phone call after sex…tell your stupid boyfriend to begin to start waiting for sex until after marriage, because first you have to build a different type of relationship like trust (which will help women give themselves to their boyfriends wholly, especially after marriage) and compatibility….then sex will be great and trust will keep you from getting worried … There is more to this but I can’t think much more because I have other things in mind peach out
I don’t know where you will find a man who waits for sex sapphire guys nowhere days really really pressure and badger girls for sex I have a rule no male visitors at my house and I don’t go to men’s houses even friends . I am tired of the way I’m turned into just a shagg even though I don’t drink I go to church I don’t sleep around no I don’t dress like a tart but as I’m saying guys try and try to a point where I feel like saying fuck off go and harass someone else
sapphire,
If you’re going to moralize about adultery (you do appears to have an unusual concept of what that actually is) you might trouble yourself to learn how to spell the word (along with the generally accepted definition of same).