I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage. Why Won’t Anyone Date Me?

I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage.  Why Won't Anyone Date Me?

Dear Evan,

I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage. I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.

Is it ever possible to have a year-long relationship without sex? Even the most conservative girl I’ve met gets heavy on that after a while. I feel pressured. They ask questions like “will we be doing that (whatever is the action in the movies) in future?”

I think maybe I’m the problem. I’ve been called frigid, gay (am not), etc.

There’s so much more to life than sex, right? Maybe I should look for intelligent scientists.

Jon

Dear Jon,

You sound a bit like the guy who insists on buying flowers for women on first dates. He seems like a really nice guy, but what he doesn’t get is that his views are out of step with the majority of society.

So it’s not a matter of whether he’s right or wrong; it’s a matter of whether his behavior is effective or ineffective.

When you lead your question with “I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage,” you make it abundantly clear that your moral stance is quite ineffective. That doesn’t make you wrong. That makes your choice a highly questionable one as far as most women are concerned.

And, as I am wont to do, I’m going to use this platform to ask readers to consider if they have any hard-wired minority beliefs that prevent them from making a connection. Again, I’m not a moralist; I’m a pragmatist. Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.

Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.

Lest you think I’m joking – that’s a true story. I had a client four years ago who was a grown-up 70’s rocker who teaches guitar lessons. Nice man. Very passionate. But in his insistence on “being himself,” he pretty much eliminated every woman who tossed her AquaNet out the window in 1989. Same goes for my Jewish client who loved his dreadlocks, and was surprised he didn’t get much attention on JDate. Somehow he was shocked that all the Ivy League women who want to marry doctors and lawyers weren’t flocking to his unwashed nest of hair. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy – it just means he had to make some tough choices: Keep the hair and lose the women. Or lose the hair and get the women.

Since I’m not a psychologist, I’m not gonna worry in this space about WHY you’d opt for abstinence. That’s between you and your clergyman. All I can say is that the number of people aboard the no-sex train is increasingly small. So as I see it, you have two choices:

Keep beating the drum that says sex is wrong outside of marriage and continue to wonder why most women keep running away, OR:

Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.

If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Steve

    Jon, when I read the title to this article my first thought was “duh”.

    Evan is right, you are simply out of step with what most people are looking for.

    I don’t think you are on a religious high horse. If abstinence before marriage is important to you I think it is important to stay true to what you think is right. However, you have to accept the consequences of it making dating MUCH harder for you.

    It might also help to think about how you tell women your views.

    Saying that you think “sex before marriage is wrong” may simply be stating your personal preference to you, but to your dates who have had and want premarital sex it may come off as an offensive moral indictment of them.

    The wording you choose might also make your dates assume you conservative and rigid about other issues, eventhough you might not be.

  2. 2
    Steve

    Evan I had to laugh at your comments about mullets. I got rid of mine a long time ago, but I still think it is one of the better looking mens haircuts. If it ever comes back into fashion I am there.

  3. 3
    Steve

    In regards to Evan’s client who insisted on keeping his mullet haircut because he was just being himself, my answer to that is the question

    Is your self in a static, forever unchanging state?

    There was a time before mullets when this man had another haircut…wasn’t he being himself then? If he finds something new he likes will he eschew it because it doesn’t fit with who he used to be?

    I only mention this because I had similar hangups with some dating baggage.

    Who we are is not static.

    The way I see it, if I try something new and keep doing it only because it gets me dates then I am not being myself. However, if I try something new to get more dates and I keep doing it because I like it, then I am being myself.

  4. 4
    christine

    i would not date a guy who won’t have sex. i think sex is important and fun. lol

  5. 5
    ABF

    The bottom line is: What is more important to you? If you are choosing to abstain from pre-marital sex because of moral/religous reasons then that is going to shrink your dating pool. If that is the case, then you need to be proactive in finding groups/websites that cater to this life choice. If you happen to find yourself dating a woman whose views are different it doesn’t mean that the relationship won’t work out in the long run. However, in those situations you need to be able to clearly explain why this position is important to you (and of course don’t bring it up until you have proceeded beyond merely dating) and be prepared for potential rejection.

  6. 6
    kat g

    Jon-
    There must be a Rules girl out there with your name on her. The book sold like hotcakes, so either a majority of the books’ readers are buying The Rules and promptly discarding the lessons contained therein, or you’ll find at least a few women who “live” by the book and are willing to practice red hot abstinence with you.

  7. 7
    thomas

    Unfortunately, what worked for our moms and dads way back when simply does not hold true today. The worse thing we can do is listen to the ethics that our parents taught us. Altho well intentioned and sure it worked in the 1930’s, those ethics simply do not apply to this age’s society. Adapt or break under the force of the winds of change.

    1. 7.1
      aeroflight03

      I hate to break it to you, but people have premarital sex in the 1930s.   It is highly likely that your mom and dad had premarital sex with other people before they got married.  

  8. 8
    Craig

    The answer to the question Jon poses is simple. No one he’s approached with his views will date him because he has yet to approach someone who agrees with those views. Doesn’t make him wrong or right per se, just in a vast minority. Most of us want to test drive the vehicle before we buy it, ya dig?

    The solution: pursue only those women outside the mainstream who agree with your views. I’m sure there are dating sites, meet-up groups, or other resources that can lead you in the right direction. Religious or socially conservative groups are your best bet. Perhaps you can get involved with the Republican party – they preach “family values” and cater to the religious/social right, so maybe you can find some chicks who won’t give it up before marriage in those circles.

  9. 9
    BeenThruTheWars

    Jon, PLEASE don’t compromise your most precious moral values in order to get dates! You will instantly become “less” of who you are at your core if this issue is extremely meaningful to you. And I guarantee no women wants “less of a man” in any way.

    As long as you reassure the women you date you find them sexually attractive, and that you aren’t putting yourself in overly tempting situations with them because of your moral beliefs, NOT because of them being unsexy or because you are a weirdo or gay or whatever, I bet you’ll have better luck with relationships taking their proper course.

    I know half a dozen “hard core” Christian women with the exact same lament as you! Some of them are absolute knockouts, but they are waiting until marriage to have sex, and that is that. End of discussion. One woman I know is 32, blonde, gorgeous — and absolutely committed to her faith and morals. Yes, she is having a hard time finding a husband, but guess what: when she finds one, he’s going to share her outlook on a great many things, and their wedding night will be super special. She only dates within her faith and fully accepts that it will take her longer to get married, and she is cool with that.

    I have been in too many relationships (before my current marriage) where I had to give up huge pieces of myself in order to stay with a certain man, and THAT is wrong, wrong, wrong in my opinion. If chastity truly is a dealbreaker for you, then stick to your guns. If I’d stuck to mine about my own supposed dealbreakers (“If he cheats on me I will leave him” for instance, or “No alcoholics”), I wouldn’t have wasted approximately a decade of my life banging my head against a wall, not to mention risking HIV infection or being killed in an accident when my man was sleeping around on me or driving under the influence and I decided to keep my mouth shut rather than start another a fight. I can only believe “someone up there” was looking out for me during those times as I finally emerged unscathed, sadder, wiser, and ready to finally have my own little internal “Showdown at the Okay Corral” about what I was willing to put up with or walk away from.

    Jon, I’m sure I’ll get plenty of crap for this from the other bloggers, but I say hold out for what makes you, YOU.

  10. 10
    jane

    Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.

    If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.

    Okay, if a man chooses to not engage in premarital sex that’s his choice although, it tends to sound like a moral judgment based on religious belief. However, the above snip from Evan’s response is an extremely poor choice of words, it positively reeks! Service?? When did sex, as an integral part of dating and pursuing an exclusive relationship, become become an act of service – to women? That may be Evan’s perception – why he has sex with women – however the conclusion deftly includes all other men in the category of perceiving sex as a service to women. Come on Evan tell us what you really think about women?

    Jane
    P.S. I wonder if Evan’s girlfriend is content to know that sex isn’t about physical gratification and intimate sharing, it’s simply about her being serviced?

    Jane

  11. 11
    Zeus

    Jon-
    My best advice to you is to stay true to your own values. There are women out there that share the same values that you do (albeit they would be hard to find nowadays).

    Listen to your own heart, not people on the Internet.

    If people think you’re square or strange for the values you have, perhaps you’ll have better luck meeting the right girl in your church.

    My recommendation is, don’t sell out. If you have to rearrange your own values for some other girl, is she really worth it?

  12. 12
    Markus

    Jon,

    C’mon man. God really doesn’t want you to have sex before a lifelong commitment? I have no problem with waiting for someone you’re really into or something but pretty much no one is going to fall for you unless you lay some pipe. Have standards and all but be realistic. ALL THAT SAID, if that is what you MUST do, there are dating sites for Catholics and Fundamentalists (not to equate the 2) where you might be able to find someone of your mindset. Good luck.

  13. 13
    hunter

    …some women, mostly mature,(they have lost their hormones) that have been hurt in previous relationships, they will go without sex ’till you marry them….

  14. 14
    Nan

    Jon,

    Both Evan & Steve are right. In your question to Evan you state, ” I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.” I don’t know how you express your views to the women you date but that sounds fairly judgmental whether you mean it to or not. Of course you have a right to your beliefs, but as Steve said you might want to look at how you express them as that can be even more off-putting than the belief itself. I can tell you that if, a man I had just met told me or I read in a profile online that “sex outside of marriage is wrong” I would blow him off. Because I have nothing but a brief snapshot to go on the statement, whether or not you realize it, as Steve said it implies a moral indictment of women who have had premarital sex.

    I think it’s great that you have a set of values that are important to you. But I can also tell you that as a woman I don’t know that I would be able to cope with it. The simple fact of the matter is that more and more women are sexually active these days.

  15. 15
    A-L

    I agree with Steve’s first post about Jon’s choice of wording in revealing his feelings about premarital sex. Are you talking about how you want to live your own life (I want to abstain from sex before marriage), or how everyone should live life (Sex is wrong outside of marriage. Period.)?

    I frequently come across this issue because I’m in the minority along with Jon. I don’t intend to have sex until I’m married, but when I reveal this to anyone, in any context, I always state that it’s a personal decision for me, and not a judgement on everybody else. I’ve also tried to make it clear prior to that conversation that I’m very open-minded about most issues. This actually causes problems because most people who abstain from premarital sex are very conservative religously and politically, and I’m a liberal. And the liberals all believe in having sex before marriage. Alas!

  16. 16
    Tyciol

    Hm, the self is certainly not static and unchanging. What mullet guy probably meant was that he still liked mullets and wouldn’t do something he didn’t want just to score with women. I can relate to that. Getting sex at all costs isn’t everyone’s top priority. I was a mullet afficianado for a long time, though I grew the front long too in the past two years so now it’s all long like Fabio, heh.

    I basically don’t think sex before marriage is not immoral, because I don’t really believe in marriage. I believe in connections, and that it probably makes sex better if you connect on some other level first so that it reinforces that connection in addition to whatever sexual connection you’re making. That being said, I’m an abstinent virgin, lol, but not due to religious marriage-related things.

  17. 17
    One of Kind

    I don’t believe in sex before marriage because I want to give my husband something reserved just for him, a bond between only him and me. At 37 years of age, I’ve waited this long to lose my virginity and hope that my wait is at least half over! If I lose a guy because he doesn’t respect my core value, that’s okay. I’m not desperate or willing to settle.

  18. 18
    Evan Marc Katz

    Thanks to everyone for your responses – even you, Jane. I would encourage anyone who dissented to reread Jon’s email. He said that he’s “losing relationships” and that even “the most conservative girl” starts putting pressure on him to have sex. He’s asking for feedback that’s going to give him some clarity on his issue.

    Thus, those telling him to keep holding out are willfully (and foolishly) ignoring Ben Franklin’s maxim, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

    The results: women are leaving him.
    Your advice: keep up the good work! stay true to yourself!

    Once again: I’ve got no problem with Jon or with sexual abstinence. But if his SOLE problem is that women leave him because he won’t have sex, he’s got two choices: change or do the same thing. If he does the same thing, he has to take responsibility for the fact that it may be a very very long time until he meets *a* girl who gets him, much less *the* girl who gets him…

  19. 19
    Selena

    For me, sex is too important in a relationship to wait until marriage, to “see how it goes”. Waaay, too much of a gamble. Finding out if you are sexually compatible is part of getting to know each other. A fun part, ideally.

    If I found myself dating someone who insisted on waiting until marriage to have sex, I would theorize he had a low drive, sexual issues, or both. I wouldn’t be willing to yoke myself to such a person.

    Since there are people out there that share the same convictions as Jon, joining church singles groups, of different, but complementary churches, would seem the most efficeint way to go.

  20. 20
    A-L

    There are people out there who don’t want to have children. Who don’t want to be with a spouse who drinks alcohol. People who work in a job where they’re gone 2/3 of the time. These people are all out of line with the “typical” American, and yet, are you really going to tell someone who doesn’t want children that they should agree to some anyway just so they can find someone to marry them? When somebody feels strongly about something (as Jon obviously does) and it’s a dealbreaker for them, then I think the majority of people who have responded on this issue are correct; Jon should keep trying to find someone willing to accept what he has to offer.

    Moreover, many people are not telling him to do the same thing over and over. From his original e-mail he sounds rather judgmental, and most have commented on this fact. They have told him that he may want to rework his wording (and his mentality that goes with it) when explaining his viewpoint. By changing the way he expresses his views, rather than changing his views, he should get a totally different response from girls.

    Now Jon doesn’t mention whether or not he expects the girl to also be a virgin…if so, he really has a long while to wait. Holding out yourself and expecting your partner to hold out while you’re dating them is one thing. Expecting your partner to have held out their whole life is something else entirely. When I do have “the conversation” with a guy I’m dating, I convey to them that I don’t expect them to be virgins but nor should they be unfaithful while we’re dating simply because they’re not getting any. I also explain to them why I’ve decided to wait until marriage for sex, and most guys I’ve dated have responded really well to my reasoning (it is NOT because the bible said so). But yes, Jon and all other virgins waiting to have sex until marriage will have smaller dating pools, and most realize that and accept it with their eyes wide open.

  21. 21
    Markus

    Jane,

    EMK is just speaking to Jon like most guys speak to each other when women-folk aren’t around. Both sides have “needs” to be taken care of. This is what he means by “service”.

  22. 22
    Rachel

    I think that in a relationship that people see as going somewhere or that has time invested in it..people will naturally want that next step. I am a conservative girl who likes to hold off on having sex with someone until I feel we know each other and are ready for that step. In my mind it taking a few months to get there is fine, BUT if this is someone I see myself dating or a potential for more with-I will indeed want to know if we are sexually compatible. Sex is a huge part of a relationship and honestly who wants to fall in love with someone and then find out you have “zero chemistry” in bed together.
    Sure you can say you can get help as a couple if this occurs, or that love conquers all, and yada, yada, yada; but in all honesty that strain on a newlywed couple is laying the groundwork for potential disaster.
    Think of it simply as inquiring minds want to know, if I like you and feel that I know you and you know me well enough through dating..I want the next step of sex. Otherwise I would be out the door as fast as the next girl, conservative morals and all. Even with a conservative way of thinking, I have always joked dating is “leasing with the option to buy”. You want to test drive the car on all levels before taking it home, in the same way you want to get to know your partner emotionally and intimately before making the commitment of marriage.

  23. 23
    Steve


    Thus, those telling him to keep holding out are willfully (and foolishly) ignoring Ben Franklin’s maxim, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    The results: women are leaving him.
    Your advice: keep up the good work! stay true to yourself!

    LOL! Very true.

    I have that quote on my office bulletin board. I have seen it attributed to Einstein, Mark Twain, “the ancient chinese”, and now Ben Franklin.

  24. 24
    Kat Wilder

    I agree with ABF Jon should be looking to meet like-minded women. I love Ben Franklin’s quote, but I’m not so sure that it works when it comes to things like religious beliefs (otherwise, well, they’d be a lot of unhappy people, because religion’s all about belief and faith, even if you never see the results).

    And I agree with Jane (although I understand what you’re saying, Markus, and sometimes use the “service” line myself). For someone like Jon, it’s much deeper than servicing, and as much I have noooo problem with sex outside, inside, on top, in front and in back of marriage we all need to be respectful of another person’s deeply held beliefs. That’s called tolerance.

    And I’m wondering with dating sites for everyone from those with herpes to those with dogs to those who want to be child-free to those who are looking for millionaires, why, oh why aren’t there any for people who don’t want to have sex outside of marriage? Are we missing a business opportunity here?

  25. 25
    lorelei

    Jon, seriously, keep up the good work! Stay true to yourself!

    If this is your decision than so be it. You are completely entitled to follow your own value system.

    The decision to have sex isn’t just like trying a new sport or food you’ve never eaten. Don’t listen to the folks out there urging you to just do it already. You’re bound to have a bad time if the reason you decide to do the humpty is just because some goofy bloggers made you feel old-fashioned and pressured.

    Sounds to me like your problem is that you don’t realize just how rare your position has beecome. You can’t walk up to just any woman in a bar and expect your average bird to be with you on the sex thing.

    First, create a situation where the likelihood rate is high that you’l be in the company of some legal-aged, virginal/chaste women (like a church group or nunnery or Utah – oh wait, I said legal-aged… scratch Utah) and THEN start whipping out your best pickup lines.

    Seriously. You gotta try harder to meet women in the right places.

  26. 26
    hunter

    to lorelei,

    …..I know 8 women, that meet Jon’s requirements,,,,, they stay in their own little circles,,,,,never,,,venture out of their comfort zone….

  27. 27
    hunter

    ….and they guard each other…….

  28. 28
    hunter

    no one has ever died, of not having sex, yet……..men are hunters, we conquer and compete…..we almost, all have to think that way, just to get what we need….

  29. 29
    Zeus

    Lorelei-

    Very good sense of humor there – work it, girl. You might consider taking up comedy writing or taking your act on the road.

    Seriously, that’s pretty good stuff. Hope you continue to post here.

  30. 30
    A-L

    Just a little FYI. This comes from an article on Salon.com “According to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, 7 percent of unmarried women between ages 25 and 29 have never had sex; neither have 5 percent between 30 and 34 and 4.3 percent between 35 and 39.” (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09/06/virgins/).

    Also, I find it curious that nobody has mentioned the fact that most people who are waiting until marriage to have sex aren’t necessarily waiting for the schmeck/making out/foreplay stuff that other couples engage in, including oral sex. So for those who are concerned about their sexual compatibility, a lot of those questions are answered before a ring is put on a finger, much less any I dos are said.

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